Top 5 Robert Duvall Scenes and '40s Madness Final 4 | #1060

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Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?

00:00:48
Speaker 1: You're not interested in art?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 1: No, Look, we're going to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation from Chicago. This is film Spotting.

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Speaker 2: I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempenarn.

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Speaker 4: Back that fun sun. I don't think that's on the world smells like that. I love the spell of bright palm.

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Speaker 3: In the morning.

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Speaker 1: I love the smell of nay palm in the morning. Robert Duval would be a movie immortal for that line alone, but there was so much more.

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Speaker 2: We'll get to Lieutenant Colonel Kilgore and other roles as we honor the late great Robert Duvall with our top five Robert Duball scenes. That plus the Forties Madness Final four ahead on film Spotting. Welcome to film Spotting Josh Forties Madness Talk is ahead. We are down to the final four and as you would expect, only heavyweights, the heaviest of heavyweights.

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Speaker 1: So heavy, I mean, this has been the best of the nineteen forties overall. Right, now we're getting to a couple titles considered best of all time in connection maybe that, so yeah, it's getting serious.

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Speaker 2: Final four matchups are live. You can skip ahead if you want and vote now film Spotting madness dot com. We'll talk through the Elite eight results and share those final four matchups a bit later. A quick reminder, Film Spotting is now available as a video podcast, and find the show there on YouTube at YouTube dot com slash film Spotting, and you can find all of our episodes on our website filmspotting dot net slash episodes. Josh. Let's go ahead and get to our top five Robert Duval scenes. As we're taping this, it's been almost exactly two months since the late great actor passed ninety five years old. As a character I may Mention later said famously, it was quite a party. It was certainly quite a party on screen for Robert Duval, and we were the beneficiaries of his immense talent, and I think we're going to get to some very familiar names and probably some very familiar scenes, maybe a few that are off the beaten path for our listeners. But how did you tackle this formidable actor and all of these great options?

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Speaker 1: It should be a nice mix here. I had a little bit of homework to do, thankfully, not a ton to feel like I had a good grasp of his career. And sometimes we do these, Adam, and you celebrate the breath of an actor's work, the range, and you certainly could do that with Deval. Maybe between our two lists will have that. Sometimes you narrow in focus on their career, look at a number of films altogether, and you realize they were that and also a particular specialist, a particular kind of character. That was my experience in considering the filmography of Robert Davaal. I realize that this guy played a particular kind of bastard, and I'm going to call him the irredeemable bastard. So these are characters who you know they've been dragged into redemption out of these cases and they're trying their best to escape it. I don't know that we see that kind of figure all that. Often in movies we see anti heroes that may you never get to that point. We see people who are redeemed and that's the whole point of the film. But man, he seemed to specialize in these guys who they just resisted being redeemed, and that resulted for me in some of his best movies, some of his best performances, as in some of his best scenes. So yeah, most of my picks are are variation on that. I'll you know, I'll nod in another direction because the guy absolutely did have range. But that was sort of the revelation for me in doing this.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'll briefly acknowledge here In terms of Oscar nomination, seven of them four for Supporting Actor The Godfather in seventy two, Apocalypse Now seventy nine, Best Actor, Great Santini seventy nine, Tender Mercy's Best Actor eighty three. He did win for that, his lone win actor again the Apostle in ninety seven, and then two more Supporting Actor A Civil Action ninety eight and The Judge in twenty fourteen. I had two realizations, Josh as I put together my list, and one was that they're there are for me four definitive Robert duval roles. I was going to apply the mount Rushmore test, and I realized too that there's no test more appropriate for Robert Duvall than the mount Rushmore test. Thinking about Chizzled Rocks, I mean, I was remembering and I had to look it up. I had to Google it just to confirm it wasn't something my memory playing tricks with me. That Saturday Night Live once put him in a game show skit called Who's More Grizzled? And it was hilarious. Right, it was him up against I don't remember who the other character was, but Garth Brooks was in it and Norm McDowell. I think it was the host of Who's More Grizzled.

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Speaker 1: Well, now you know what time it is. It's time for the Grizzled speed Round. This is your chance to catch up Wayne. One minute, two hundred dollars a question.

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Speaker 3: Let's begin money, Wayne, I don't believe in banks. I keep my owners in a coffee cane.

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Speaker 2: Correct, the four hardened faces I see had to be represented. Now the fifth is up for some discussion. I think you may have that fifth between two options covered on your list. But I love how you phrased it, and I think we're gonna have some overlap in our terminology or and how we ultimately looked at a few of these characters. I just came at it, maybe just through a little bit of a different door, that quintessential trait, that through line that connects these characters, or at least the characters that are on my list, as I was thinking about these definitive roles and these scenes ultimately, and what I think makes Duval so exciting to watch is that, and this is where the irredeemable bastard comes in, right, is that his characters so often have been humbled and are desperate or are in desperate need of humbling. The prideful ones are usually louder and the lowly are quieter. But with Duval, the dynamics are never so simple. There is range to all of these characters. And so we're gonna see that with my list and your list as well. We're going to see that range play out within all of these characters.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about his face, his head, you know, on Mount Rushmore, or or even just a sculpture of him, and yeah, the artist doesn't have to work all that hard there. No, it's just it's much right there in the rock exactly so definitely captures his physical quality.

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Speaker 2: Get us started. You're number five Duval scene.

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Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna start with one of his irredeemable bastards, and it's the Great Santini himself. The Great Santini came out in nineteen seventy nine. This was a bit of homework for me Duval. As you said, Oscar nominated here for playing bull Mechum self proclaimed Great Santini. You know, one of those guys who gives themselves a nickname. You gotta love that. Bul Mechum is a Marine lieutenant colonel training pilots on a base in nineteen sixty two South Carolina. Throughout the film, we actually see more scenes of Meetaim with his family than in the military on the base. But that's the point because he runs his family with military precision, and as the movie goes on, this creates increasing dismay and resentment and tension there. My pick, though, despite that family focus, although I think it's related in a way, I'll explain. My pick does take place on the base, and this is his motivational speech that he gives his new squadron. So up until this point in the movie, we've seen Meacham delivering a lot of bluster, but it's mostly been in front of easy, forgiving crowds. The whole opening section were with him and his previous squadron overseas. They love the guy, they think he's hilarious, and so his bluster goes over just fine. His family at this point hasn't really turned on him. You can see some of the reservations there, but for the most part they're on board with their you know, very strict but loving dad. And then we meet a couple of buddies on this base who veterans he knows as well, who just eat up whatever he delivers. This scene, though, he has to deliver the bluster and then back it up before a new crowd. This is a new group. It's his new squadron in South Carolina, and he comes through with a blowheart speech of biblical proportions.

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Speaker 5: Morning, you may not have the privilege of serving under the mean it's toughest, screaming a.

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Speaker 1: Squadron commander the Marine Corps.

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Speaker 3: Me.

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Speaker 4: Now, I don't want you to consider me.

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Speaker 6: It's just a commanding officer.

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Speaker 1: I want you to look on me like I was, well God, And Duval makes such a meal of this scene because that's exactly what Meacham is doing with the moment. He's so this is not scene ory chewing, because this is the character. I love, the long pau us that he gives before he says God, as if he thinks, am I really gonna say this? Am I gonna go this far and compare myself to God? And then he does, And then after he says it, he gives just this little self satisfied smirk so priceless. He's like, yeah, I just did that. Now we do get a clue here that the squadron, not everyone is maybe buying into this. There's a quick shot of one pilot rolling his eyes. I don't know if we can tell if Meetcham notices that, but either way, he just doubles down on this speech, delivering mower phrases, and every time he comes up with one like what he says, this is the eye of the storm being with him, he lets out another little smile. He's entertaining himself so much in this scene.

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Speaker 6: In thirty Days, I'm gonna lead the toughest flying of sons of bitches in the world. The three twelve Worlo Squadron will make history or it will die. Try now you flying with bull meetium now, and I kid you not. This is the eye of the storm. Welcome on board.

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Speaker 1: There is another layer at work here, though. I think this is where we get a hint of Meechum's worldview fairly early on in the film, and how much he believes in it. Another thing he tells this group is we're members of the proudest, most elite group of fighting men in the world. We are Marines, Marine Corps, fighter pilots. We have no other function. And there it is. That's the movie. He's a marine fighter pilot, not a husband, not a father, not a father, and so there's only one way for him to function, even at home. So you probably get a sense of how this fits into, you know, the character theme. I just will say that as far as the Irredeemable Bastard goes, the Great Santini's best scene for me, near the climax, touches on this in an incredible way. It involves his son, It dramatizes the sort of resistance to being saved that is at the core of this duvaul character. Type. It's not necessarily as great as this one is a Duval scene, so I didn't go with it for that reason. I also don't want to spoil it here in case there those haven't seen The Great Santini and want to catch up with it doing their own Duval homework. But it does bring that theme together in a fascinating way. For my pick, though, I'm going with Meechum's squadron speech, this is the eye of the storm.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great choice. And I mentioned that I thought you would have that fifth face, and for many it should be one of the four faces that would be up there. A definitive do Fall role, do Baal role and performance bull Meatchum has to be considered. And maybe for me, I only didn't consider it because I don't consider The Great Santini as a film to maybe be, you know, up there with some of these other movies that maybe we're going to talk about. But yeah, he fits. He fits not only so nicely the overarching theme for your top five, but for mine as well. There are few characters in Duval's filmography that I want to see again, think about my theme and characters that you want to see, Characters who are in need of being humbled. There are a few characters that you want to see get their come upance more than right for sure, I'm going to give you one that I think I actually, even though he has such a much smaller role, one I actually want to see get humbled more. And that's Frank Hackett in Sidney Lamet's Network my number five, and the scene is when Hackett fires William Holden's Max.

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Speaker 5: I gave it the show, Schumacher. I'm putting the network new show onto programming. Mister Ruddy has had a mild heart attack and is not taking calls in his absence. I'm making all network decisions, including one.

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Speaker 2: I've been wanting to make a long time. You're fired.

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Speaker 5: I want you out of this building by new I'll call the security guards and have you thrown out if you still need.

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Speaker 2: That scene for me is one that I love. I love the movie, as you know, and yes, as I just said, it's appropriate for my theme because I'll use your word, which I have in my notes probably seventeen times, bluster. This scene is so much bluster and bravado, right, But I do also think it's such a showcase for Duval and it's it's not just all that bluster in Bravado, it is the dynamics at play too. He gets, he gets quiet, he gets in that mid range, and then he gets very loud as well. And one of the reasons I picked it is because, like Gene Hackman, Duvall is one of those guys who has a very distinct laugh. And I'm bummed that I don't have a good scene that really really shows him with that idiosyncratic laugh of his. But but we do get. We get close here him doing something that is unique to him, I think, which is the way Duval will really in certain scenes, will really huff and puff a bit. He's got this, he's got this odd kind of breathy thing he'll do where he'll really let it out when he's when he's reacting, when he's really blustering about something. And hear the obnoxiousness of Frank Hackett, the arrogance of Frank Hackett the character, and I'll give you the line. He does it in a second, even though people who know the scene probably know the line I'm thinking of. I was trying to trying to think about how I would describe Frank Hackett in this scene. And he plays him Josh like a seven year old kid who's been told he's won a toy shopping spree, who then occasionally realizes he's actually an executive at a TV network.

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Speaker 1: But he gets Becky, you'll have your ass.

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Speaker 5: I got to hit Schumacher and Ruddy doesn't count anymore.

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Speaker 2: He was hoping I follow my face with this Beal show, but I didn't.

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Speaker 6: It's a big fat, big tinted head, and I don't have to waffle.

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Speaker 2: Around with Ruddy anymore.

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Speaker 7: If he goes take me.

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Speaker 6: Up afore the CCA board let him.

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Speaker 2: Do you think Ruddie is stupid enough to go to the CCA board and say.

00:16:26
Speaker 7: I'm taking all one hitch all off the air.

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Speaker 2: It comes to them before you know he's he's bouncing around the room. He's he's so energetic. He he the ratings, the fact that he's got a hit on his hands. He's got so much power because he knows that that ratings means money. Money means power means that he's in charge, means that he can do whatever he wants, means that it doesn't matter what Max or anyone else wants to do. And he's in control, and he wields that like a little kid running around almost this office. And then every once in a while he calms down, he calms down, he sits down in his chair, and he acts like he's a businessman. But then thirty seconds later he's back up darting around the room again. You know, he just he can't, he can't contain himself. And and yet you've got with Duval, there's still such a precision to his movements with his hands. And I'll talk about this again with an other character coming up, and and with that character too. In neither case does it feel like the precision is planned or you know, overly choreygraphed anything but purely in the moment, right, purely spontaneous. But you see it with Hackett the way he'll he'll put his hands in the air when he talks, when he's emphasizing something, the way, the way at one point when he sits down after one of these one of these moments where he's really been on a rampage and he sits down, you know, and he's got that that mostly balding head and you'll like pat the pat the beads of sweat off his head, like you know, he's he's calming himself down after he's finally made his grand point, and now the king gets to relax a little bit and Lumette. Lumette actually talks about this scene specifically on the Criterion channel and you can find it on YouTube, and Lumett says that he thinks the scene one of the reasons it's so effective is that there's a sincerity, an inherent sincerity about Duval as an actor that makes the excessive vulgarity of it, of the scene twice as effective. And I think he might be right. Certainly, when I think of Duval, I think about sincerity as an actor, I think about honestness, and I think about truth and everything he does. But I actually think he's suggesting that there's when he says sincerity, I think he might be suggesting that there's almost a politeness to Duval that we attribute to him, because he says just a few moments later that you would never think of Duval.

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Speaker 1: For a part like this now.

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Speaker 2: And my point, my point, my counter to that would be, well, maybe or maybe not in nineteen seventy six when he cast him. But as I doing this list, look back on Duval's career. Now, I would argue that he's really good at playing these types of characters, these characters who are in need of having their egos checked and checked hard. And so maybe that is, you know, maybe what he's getting at is and this goes back to his first role ever, first screen role ever that isn't going to come up on my list, but is an honorable mention bou Radley. Maybe there is something about Duval that made him so perfect for that role, even where there's something so naturally plain and unassuming and everyday guy ish about him that we do attribute a certain genteel quality and a certain politeness to him. But the thing about Duval is is there does always seem to be that irredeemable bastard, that little bit of a monster lurking within him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the kindness or you know, that comes from the fact how often his characters say sir to no matter who they're talking to, they do have that sort of innate kindness. So maybe that's what I'm thinking of when I think about you know, Hackett just being the blatant, right know, bulldozer in this scene in particular, when you were talking about you know, how nothing he seems to do, particularly with his body or gestures. Is feels planned right or strategized. It actually makes me think of a line from Tender Mercies, which we're going to get to, but this applies to your point. And this is a line that his character says to His character is a once famous country singer says to a young up and coming band who revers him and is asking for his advice. It's just a throw away line, but Duval's character says, sing it the way you feel it. And I remember when that scene happened. I was like, I think that's how he approaches acting, Like this is his character describing musical performance. But that seems to be how Duval approaches performance on screen, especially related to what you were just talking about when it comes to those gestures that are so crucial. There's even one this scene you're talking about, something he does with his hands after I think Max gives him the fu and in his response is just kind of like I think he just kind of like waves it away, like it's like it's smoke in the air that doesn't mean anything.

00:21:33
Speaker 2: It's that kind of shows in the door almost with his hands in the line, I do have to say it the Vulgar line where he does the breath. The Duval thing where he gets really blustery is when he says what he says, He's got a big, fat, big titted hit. Oh yeah, that's that's the class. That's Duval man. That's the Duval line delivery.

00:21:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great scene. Nice pick. I definitely had network as a honorable mention. So glad it made your list. All right, My number four is going to come from a much lesser known Robert Duval film. But again, maybe I was too influenced by thinking of this character type. I'm going with the funeral speech his character gives in a movie called Get Low, Now Get Low, You know, Adam, that was the film that was the prompting for your joint top five Robert Duval movies list you did with Maddie back in twenty day, back before I joined the show, And yeah, that was just out in twenty ten. I reviewed it at the time and called out one scene in particular, which now putting it into the context of his career, watching it again, I just had to go with this was the funeral speech his character gives. He plays Felix Bush Hermit in nineteen thirties Tennessee, who announces to the nearby town suddenly that he wants to throw himself a funeral party before he dies. He then uses the occasion to publicly confess a long held secret, and the confession which he gives at the funeral, that's my pick. It's a very long scene. It's a long speech. It's probably too long. I wish the music that creeps in at the very end wasn't there and the film had just trusted Duval despite all that, man does he hold this moment, especially the key early section where Felix talks about why he held onto the secret for so long, essentially that he didn't want forgiveness, that he wanted to make himself suffer the guilt.

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Speaker 3: Y'all probably think, you know what you do what you wouldn't and I wish you good luck with that. I really do. And I told Charlie what i'd done. He told me to confess to God, the law and somebody else shows I could get forgiveness. But I didn't want forgiveness.

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Speaker 8: No.

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Speaker 3: I needed to hold on to what I did, to be shick from it every day of my life. So I never told nobody else.

00:24:06
Speaker 1: You see nobody. So here is an irredeemable bastard who resisted emptionin like other Duval characters. And then this is unique that grasps for it at the end of his life, which I think is significance. And also this moment just shows you the shading of these aren't just you know, these aren't just bad guys who turn their life around. Like Duval came back to these figures frequently, I'm assuming because they fascinated him, but also because he knew he would be able to give each one distinct layers. And that's the layer he gives here to Felix Bush. Is this one reason a guy might resist redemption is because he wanted to punish himself. So that's that's from get Low. Good movie, not a great movie, probably great, probably better than the great Santini. I'm kind of working working up towards better Duval movies. I like them both. But yeah, Bill Murray co stars in this as the town funeral director, and he's also he's also quite good. So that's the funeral speech from get Low.

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Speaker 2: I will have to take your word for that. I didn't get a chance to rewatch that scene. It's Duval I'm sure he's wonderful in it. I'm I am now just bringing up my notes. I still have my notes from you know that that conversation in a Google doc, my review notes, and it looks like I was maybe a little bit hard on get Low back in that review, so I can see it.

00:25:31
Speaker 1: I was mildly positive. And I think the movie, which my comments on the scene priority, alluded to stax the decks more than it probably needs to in terms of winning the audience over. And you know the deval movies in his in his prime that took full advantage of him. Knew they didn't need to do that because they had Duvall.

00:25:51
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's go with an oldie, but a goodie, a classic one of those faces. Obviously, I felt like needed to be on that Mount Rushmore, despite the fact that this character maybe in the movie Josh for ten minutes twelve minutes total. But I think it's a testament to Francis Ford Coppola's vision and Robert Duval's skills as a performer that he is that memorable as Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore in Apocalypse Now and look, I love the smell of napalm in the morning is the choice. It's probably the better choice than the scene I'm going with, which is his introduction kill Gore's arrival. But that's the one I'm going with, and the reason I'm going with it, Josh, is because I love everything about how Duval owns the scene, primarily physically, and of course a huge part of this is Coppola as a filmmaker and is directing choices. But the way Copola shoots Duval when he gets out of the chopper, it's it's textbook low angle, medium shot into a medium close up that because of that low angle, just immediately asserts kill Gore's authority. But I don't know that Coppola even needs it, because just the way Duval is standing right in that costume that he's wearing, the way he wears that uniform and he's standing with those shades on, he already has all the authority that he needs. And in terms of that bluster, he's loud, but he's loud only because, this is my theory, he has to shout over the sound of the chopper blades and over the sound of the bombs exploding. Otherwise I do think his physical stature is bold enough to dominate anyone or any space that he's in. Otherwise he can communicate anything he needs to communicate. And here again this is the movement. I was talking about. The precision with which he cracks open the deck of cards, those death cards, you know, the way he taps the cards and then opens up, even the precision with which he throws the cards down, and they somehow like choppers are are you know, the wind is blowing around, and he throws them onto bodies and they land perfectly on their chest. Somehow, the way he walks, all of it is just with purpose. And and we even get then that brutal joke that Duval somehow does make funny where he killed or makes such a show of fighting against one of his men, or whatever, of giving that dying man water.

00:28:36
Speaker 1: What do you have to say? He wants water, paddy.

00:28:44
Speaker 4: Water, get out of here, give me that, give me that cat.

00:28:59
Speaker 2: Like canteen any day, girdle.

00:29:01
Speaker 3: I think one of those sellers, Lance Johnson.

00:29:03
Speaker 6: The Surfer my head.

00:29:07
Speaker 2: And then of course, as soon as he finds out that Lance Johnson the Surfer is there, he just takes his canteen and even spills a bunch of it as he goes and leaves the man just flailing there.

00:29:18
Speaker 1: He turned, he's yeah, I remember we called this out in our He just flips on a dime. His personality from this supposedly merciful warrior to what right famous surfer? F right brutal?

00:29:31
Speaker 2: And then the way he this guy, this, this soldier, this guy who does not seem to care at all, doesn't seem merciful at all. Then somehow seems to have a code, as you said, and then he's looking at Lance, a surfer, like he's a four star general, like he's in awe of him. The absurdity of this guy who's so unaffected by slaughter and mayhem being odd by Lance and and even just talking about surfing in Vietnam and how he does it. It's it's just such a wild ride from minute one until about minute four into this scene, and it's it's easy to say, following my theme, that Kilgore needs to be knocked down a peg or two. But you know what, Josh, you go tell him, you go tell him. I'm not going to go tell him that he needs to be knocked out a pegger two. I'm not going to try in Vietnam, where, especially in Coppola's vision of it, insanity rains. Kilgore is he's the king, he's the ruler, you know, and Duval just seems to eat it up. He knows exactly how to embody this guy. But here again we're talking about or we're you know, dancing around or even using some of the same phrases like arrogance and bluster and bravado. But he plays him, of course, in a completely different way. He embodies this type of masculinity, hyper masculinity, in a completely different way than he does the childlike Frank Hackett for example.

00:31:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I we're going to stay with apocalypse now for my number three, I couldn't talk myself out of the smell of napalm. So that is my number And I I think of Lieutenant Colonel Kilgore, now that I've seen some of other films from Duval, as the Great Santini unleashed in Vietnam. This is this is the war Meacham was likely waiting for, just chomping at the bit for while he was stuck in South Carolina. And you know, he got there and morphed into this monster that is that is kill Gore. It's it's chilling to me beyond the things you talked about which are so intimidating. And the level of his voice that you mentioned relates to this how casual duval makes kill Gore Because I agree with you, he's only raising his voice out of necessity. He doesn't really get riled up by any of this nonsense that's happening. The only time he seems to get a little perturbed is when Martin Sheen's captain Willard tries to tries to like call out, maybe it's not that safe to surf on the beach, and he Charlie Don't, rips off his shirt and declares he's gonna surf. And you know that's the only time he really gets animated again is about the surfing. But otherwise, think of the terrifying calm he projects, submits this this madness. When he calls in the Nate palm strike like he's ordering pizza for him, it's as significant. Yeah, how about the language of this mad man he talks about blowing him back to the Stone Age? Sound familiar? I mean good to know that we have a president taking his onetime leadership. Cues from Lieutenant Kilgard and old Kilgore. That's that's encouraging. How about this touch and I'm not sure if this was a hearst or not. There's a mortar strike that that hits the beach I don't know, a dozen yards or so behind his position.

00:33:02
Speaker 2: I know where you're going.

00:33:03
Speaker 1: Everyone else everyone cowers, jumps, He doesn't motionless. Yeah, doesn't, so they must my favorite reverse that in stage it. But it speaks to you know everything we have both just said. This is you know, Duval shows up in Apocalypse Now for a couple of I don't know how many minutes, not many, and comes away with perhaps its most memorable scene. So yeah, it kind of works well that we were able to break it up into two moments, because it deserves that sort of attention.

00:33:36
Speaker 2: I think so too. And the fact is, Josh, you maybe didn't even touch on what I think is perhaps the most interesting line in that sequence. And it's not even I love the smell of napalm in the morning. It's his last line. Think about what Duval does with some day this war is gonna end. I'm still I rewatched this scene and I'm still chewing on Yeah, someday this war there's such a mystery to it, and I can imagine so many actors and I don't even mean on the level of Duval, I just mean any actors who I don't know who would be daring enough to try to use that scene for a casting side, you know, and trying out for a role with that scene. But if you were imagine trying to make that line work, it's such a non sequitur. That's the point, right, He's like, you're doing this, all this nonsense about napalm in the morning and war, war, war, and then all of a sudden he gets really contemplative and says something like someday this war is going to end. And it's so open and mysterious that you really can be left for weeks thinking what what does he really mean to suggest by that? I don't know how many actors could imbue it with enough honesty, like, with enough in the moment, just truth to make it ring like it makes sense for the character to sense yeah.

00:35:04
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, and keep it connected to the character. That's a challenge with a line like that, right, And he does make it work, it is, even though you don't understand what he means. It makes sense as something Kilgore would say in the little time we've come to know him.

00:35:22
Speaker 3: I'm glad this.

00:35:23
Speaker 4: War's gonna end.

00:35:25
Speaker 2: I love that touch, and yeah, everything everything he does with Kilgore is so insanely insane, being the operative word, insanely memorable. We're gonna go and then then to my number three, and I do feel like that Mount Rushmore. Any any real investigation of Doval scenes has to include tom Hagen. The question is are you gonna go with Tom Hagen from The Godfather? Are you gonna go with Tom Hagen from The Godfather Part two? And then which scene, which scenes are you going to choose from? And it it was tough one of the first that came to mind because of the sensibility that he brought to tom Hagen, the way he balanced here going between that that need to be brought down and and that sort of humility that I'm talking about with my characters. The way he balanced the hot headedness of Sonny in the first one and the ruthlessness of Michael. He was the brother that was kind of in between, right, the advisor in between. I always thought about her. I immediately thought about the scene in Godfather Ion where Sonny blows up at him and says after Pop gets shot, and he says, if I had a wartime concieri, Pop had Jenko, look what I got. It's such a dagger to his brother, as both his brother and his concieri to say that to him. And I remember watching The Godfather Josh with friends in college and we used to throw up. We were such a cliche. I guess as a group of guys, we would throw on The Godfather all the time in my dorm room and watch it and we would always comment on how we couldn't believe Sonny. Was that mean? Why would Sonny say that to Tom? Tom's Tom's such a good guy, Tom's so nic here, I guess we were falling prey to what Lamette was saying. We saw Duval in this role is so so nice and so sincere, and he's just trying to help the family, and why is Sonny being such a jerk to him? Right? So that was something that I thought about that scene, and it would be appropriate for my scene in some ways because Duval there Tom Tom kind of rises up against Sonny and he yells at him and Sonny humbles him quickly like Sonny puts him in about as low a place as you could possibly put him and really cuts him deep. But the more I thought about it, I realized that my true favorite scene with Duval in Godfather one or two is the one in Godfather Too that makes us recall. I think it has to at least a little bit this exchange I'm talking about Josh between Sonny and Tom in the first one, where where as I'm saying, Sonny uses Tom's heritage against him. Tom's adopted, as we recall, famously, he's German Irish right, not Sicilian, and Sonny has made sure to remind him of that. He's questioned him as a member of the Corleone family capital F and Corleone family lowercase F. He's questioned him as a Concieri because he's not Italian. But that's to basically say you don't you don't belong here. And now in The Godfather Too, the scene is that scene fairly early on where you have Michael in the boat house, after the attempt has been made on his life in his home, in his home, sorry I had to do it in my home. He turns to the only person he can fully trust, Tom and What does he tell him first? What does he say to him? He has Michael, of course, has has a reason for this. There's there's something he's trying to accomplish with this conversation, but he doesn't get right to the point. What does he say to him first time?

00:39:30
Speaker 5: I always wanted to be thought of as a brother by you, Mikey, real brother.

00:39:35
Speaker 2: Duval's reaction is just so tender. He has that subtle emotional breakdown, and that line just just cuts me every time I watch it, Josh. He says, I always wanted to be thought of as a brother by you, Mikey, a real brother. And then and then Michael unifies family and family. He says, You're going to take over, You're going to be the don And I just I just love the push pull of it, being that it's such a quiet, such a tender scene. There's zero Duval bravado. It's obviously the complete opposite of Kilgore or Hackett or some of these other men that we're talking about, even though at the same time he's literally being elevated, he's being promoted to the dawn of the family. You know, it could be this moment of real sort of you know, celebration, and it's it's more significant to him though, that he's getting that psychological and emotional foundation, that that that rigor that support that he's always longed for. That he's being told what Sonny didn't give him originally. He's being told by Michael finally the validation you're truly part of this family, You're you're my brother. I've always found that such a touching, such a touching emotional scene, and it's it's the way, it's the way, Duval and we're going to see this again coming up in a scene that we may share. It's the restraint duvall understanding how emotionally impactful that scene is for that character and thus for the audience, and and knowing just just at the right volume to play it and to not overplay it.

00:41:21
Speaker 1: Adam, I think the next big release in theaters that we have our eyes on and will hopefully be reviewing soon here on the show is Mother Mary from director David Lowry and Hathaway as a pop star. I knew the basic sort of concept behind this, but then in the theater for the drama, this was the trailer beforehand, and I don't know what to expect anymore. I mean this seemed absolutely wild in terms of its visuals and also the metaphysical aspects that Lowry is bringing to this story. So very excited for Mother Mary and to see it up there on the big screen. Listeners, if you had Regal Unlimited, you could see Mother Mary for free, because Regal Unlimited is the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits. Right now, Regal is offering film spotting listeners endless movies for less. If you sign up for Regal Unlimited using code film Spots twenty six, you're gonna get fifteen percent off. Now. Regal Unlimited is the only truly limitless movie subscription pass. You can see any standard two D movie any time with no blackout dates or restrictions. Also, with Regal Unlimited, you won't just save money on tickets, You're also going to save on snacks. Members get ten percent off all non alcoholic concessions. Sign up now in the Regal app or at the link in our description and use code film spot twenty six to receive that discount. Yeah. I love this pick because I think this is a great example of Duval's range. Just the different registers he's playing compared to some of the other characters we've been talking about, while keeping some of those same qualities he always brought to the screen. I think for me, here's where you know, the semantics of how we label our lists sometimes comes into play. I think if we had done top five Duval characters, I would have had Tom Hagen on my list for sure. When it came to scenes, I had a similar struggle you did, is like where do I go, what's the what's the central one? I think what you pick does work really well. I was also I heard from a listerer, James Decker, when I was wrestling with this, who sent in his pick and it was Tom Hagen for his favorite and said his haunting role in Godfather as concierg Concieri. There you go, staying quietly but powerfully and influentially in the background in almost every scene where he appears. And it was that background quality that James highlighted that really does stand out to me. Here. I think of that meeting of the five five Families scene, and this is where I struggled, because he doesn't really do anything, but he is literally sitting behind Brando against the wall in this meeting, when Brando stands to talk, he looks back at Tom, and Tom stands with him. You know, it's it's like there's so so of a piece, but it's all in the background. And I guess one litmus test for Duval as Tom Hagen is imagine someone else in the role, and this would be a forgettable part. Not only that, it would probably be a part that might have been written out of you know. I mean, these are long films. Sure, if you don't justify these moments, they could be cut and just left on the editing room floor. But because of what Duval's ability to bring so much to them. You remember Tom, even though he never really takes over a scene. So yeah, in my honorable mentions, But glad Tom made your list. All right, we're at number two. I wasn't sure where I was going to go with The Apostle, which was my favorite Duval starring film, until I did some homework for this episode. I love The Apostle. You should note Duval here also served as writer and director. And yes, this is absolutely another irredeemable bastard. Duval's Sonny Dewey. This is pentecostal preacher who discovers his wife is having an affair with the youth group leader at church. He kills the man in a fit of rage and then flees Texas for Louisiana, where he begins a new church and a radio ministry as the apostle Ef. Now, Sonny was actually on my list of the top five characters who Shaped Us back in twenty twenty three with Ayisha Harris. She was on the show with Us then Adam. It was around her book that was released at the time, Wanna Be. I'll let Film Spotting family members take advantage of their archive access and check out my reasons for that pick by going back and listening to that episode Before I get to my scene pick here, though, I want to share another listener comment an email I got from a listener who chose a moment I didn't go with but definitely consider. This is from Red Lackey, who chose Sonny's final sermon and read as he'll explain, did this for personal reasons, perhaps because of my personal upbringing in the Pentecostal church. The scene that stands out to me as his tour de force is the final sermon in the church service at the end of the apostle. My understanding is that the scene was captured largely in one take using a multi camera setup with minimal pickups. Duval taps into something uncommon here. He connects to a lengthy American tradition that has too often been satirized and parodied, and endows it with dignity, reverence, and power. But the scene is also a masterclass in character work that it concludes the complex and textured examination of a devout but sinful man. Could have been a moment of supreme melodrama or worse Sacharine sentiment, but the scene lacks any musical score. There's no sensationalized camera work. Its pure performance, as believably authentic a portrait as I've ever seen put to film of that subculture which characterized so much of my childhood. So thank you for that. Read. Definitely thought about going in that direction for some of those same reasons. Instead, I'm gonna go with a far earlier scene. This is before Sonny's outburst of violence, but his life is already crumbling. He's learned of the affair, the church is going to be taken away from him, and he's fervently praying to God for relief and direction and gets no answer.

00:47:43
Speaker 2: Give it to me.

00:47:44
Speaker 3: Tonight, Lord God, if you won't give me back my wife, give me.

00:47:47
Speaker 7: Peace, give it to me, give it to me, give it to me, give me peace, Give me peace. I don't know who's been full of with me. You are the devil, I don't know. And I won't even bring the human into this. He's just a munch so I'm not even gonna bring him into it. But I'm confused.

00:48:04
Speaker 3: I'm mad.

00:48:05
Speaker 7: I love you, Lord, I love you, but I'm mad at you.

00:48:07
Speaker 1: I am mad at you. What I love about this scene is the way Sonny vacillates between preacher mode, so when he's giving it a bit of a performance, you know, the give it to me, give it to me, give it to me, and when he hits genuine notes of surrender, here's maybe a little bit of the humbling that you've been talking about as exactly. I think this trajectory this from bluster and performance to genuine surrender. That's the struggle that Sonny is going to have for the rest of the film, and it is brilliantly all set up here in this solo powerhouse moment. So give me piece one of the other things he cries out in that moment. That's my number two pick from the Apostle.

00:48:53
Speaker 2: I had a pretty strong feeling it would make your list, and maybe that's why I felt comfortable just having this scene as an honorable mention, despite the fact that, to be totally honest, it was a guide for me. It was one of the scenes that helped lead me down the path I went down for my list because I felt like the Apostle Ef was one of those key characters who who most crystallized this idea of both needing to be humbled and also desperately was humbled, right, and that's the central struggle that we see play out with that character. So yeah, absolutely an honorable mention for me number two Josh, I guess I may apologize to you, but I don't feel that bad about it because I feel like this was fair for me to do my homework on the mini series Lonesome Dove. Did you just ultimately decide not to get to it here?

00:49:58
Speaker 1: You watched how many hours? Is that? Again?

00:50:00
Speaker 2: Remind me I don't remember how long the series is, but I'll tell you this, it's only four episodes, but they're very long episodes. Yeah, they're almost like features, right, yeah, multi hour, yeah exactly. But I'll tell you this, I didn't realize there were only four, and so when it ended, thought this isn't this isn't over. There's like ten more episodes, right. I was sort of shocked. This is what's helpful when you when you are ignorant about what you're about to embark on. I did not think it was done, so I did complete it, and I felt like I did feel like I had to for this top five. And the reason is because in the wake of his death, I saw a couple places where Duval said, let the English play Hamlet and King Lear. My Shakespeare is Augustus McCrae and Lonesome Dove. Now having watched it, I'll put this out there. If there is a priority order on Mount Rushmore. I don't know if there is. With our presidents, there would be a number one spot. If there was, I think it would probably be Gus McCrae, even though I have it at number two. And there's a reason why. But if you didn't watch Lonesome Dove, or you haven't seen it yet and you think you watch it and you don't want it spoiled. Look, do whatever you need to do, Josh. You can put me on mute if you need to. But Larry McMurtry's book came out in nineteen eighty five, the mini series was on in nineteen eighty nine. So if I have to spoil Lonesome Dove in order to pay proper tribute to Robert Duval, that's what I'm going to do. Broadly, the plot got my permission, thank you. The plot broadly, very briefly, he plays Gus McCrae timy Lee Jones's Woodrow Call. They are too, pretty famous retired Texas Rangers circa eighteen seventy. They live a pretty humble life in a small Texas border town, and then they kind of get this dream to start the first cattle ranch north of the Yellowstone River, and they set out for Montana. That quote I mentioned, I was of course familiar with that before I started watching this series. It was really kind of the impetus to watch it. So my expectations then for that character, Gus McCrae, were pretty high. I mean, if you're gonna throw around names like Lear and Hamlet, I have to see what Duval found. So fascinating about Gus, and I got it. I got it. Gus is he's never anything but a man, but he's also so richly drawn and portrayed by Duval, And a big part of it is the friendship between Gus and Call and that partnership between Duval and Timily Jones. As cantankerous as it is, they're so damn entertaining together and it's so damn complicated that relationship, the pair of them together. To Josh, despite their ages, they seem so indestructible, And this is why I said they seem so human, but they also seem almost super heroic, the way mythical Western figures often do are superheroes. Before we had superheroes wearing capes, right, that it's almost unfathomable to consider one of them not making it to Montana. And I mean that in terms of the narrative how I'm describing just the way they're portrayed in this mythical fashion, but also just emotionally. You become invested enough in this journey in these characters that that you can't imagine them both not being around, but also you can't imagine the other the characters all the supporting characters living without one of them. They're so dependent on them, right, And yet with that context, somehow I found myself fairly early in the fourth and final episode having to confront the fact that even Gus McCray wasn't going to be able to fight his way out of this scenario, having been shot in the leg with arrows by Indians and the you know, the infection has spread and and he wakes up to a doctor having taken one of his legs, and and it it looks like it's over. And this is then when Tommy Lee Jones when when when Call shows up, and it's just such a it's such a classic, you know, Duval and Tommy Lee Jones kind of showdown here in this moment, which is that there's so much tenderness and there's love, but there is that cantankerousness as well, right, and there's humor to it despite the stakes of the scene. And when Call shows up, he the doctor says basically, you know, well, there's still time. The other leg could come off and I could save his life. And before he's even done saying the line, Duval's gun comes out and points at the both of them. You know, and and then when that's settled that the leg isn't coming off and the leaves and it's just the two of them having these final moments together. There's just some of the writing, Josh, I have to say. Obviously the acting is impeccable, but the writing too. You know. He says to Call at one point, like why don't you relax? He can see in his friend the toll it's taking on him, and he's thinking about him, right even though he's the one dying, And he says, why don't you relax? You can't save me, And and it's such such a powerful line because if you think back to what I was saying before, as viewers, you're thinking, well, this is just one more scenario where one of them will help the other get out of it, right, Except this is one where there's no saving to be done. And here's where the humbling really comes in. Even if if Gus doesn't need it need it the same way some of the other characters were talking about, really need it, he says. He says this. Finally, to Call, he says, I walk this earth my whole life with my pride. You see, now, if that's lost, the rest will be lost with it because there's certain things my vanity won't abide. He's talking about losing that other leg So you know, Gus McCrae, this character, the character in the world of Lonesome Dove, the man in the pages of McMurtry's book who had to come to life on screen as we see him on screen, is a legend. And it only works if Duval can embody that legend, and legends don't die. And I think we as viewers, as readers, potentially too, but certainly as viewers here my experience, we don't want, we don't want to be made aware of their mortality, and this scene makes us sort of cruelly. But also, i'll say again, tenderly aware of his mortality. And Josh, there's a moment I'll tell you this, I'll warn you in advance if we're ever doing this top five treatment later for Tommy Lee Jones. I'm just going to pick this scene again, so you better watch Lonesome Dove, despite me having for you, because he's just as good, if not even better than Duval in this moment and Jones after this exchange, this long exchange, this long exchange, Jones touches his head, his friend's head, and these are grizzled Western men right in eighteen seventy who they show their affection in ways that are maybe not ways that sensitive men today would show their affection. And in this moment, he touches his friend's head, and he touches his cheek, and then he touches his chest because his eyes are closed and it seems like he might actually he's passed, right, And then he pronounces his name slowly, Augustus. And there's something about him saying his name. Honestly that's just like heartbreaking, because it's just sort of like he's like he's by pronouncing his name, it's like he existed, you know. That's the only way I can describe it. And as he says it. Right after he says it, Duval's eyes shoot out open one more time, almost like he summoned him back by pronouncing his name. And and that's the line I was alluding to at the beginning of the show. His character Gus has one final line. He says, by Godwood Road, it's been quite a party, and and then that's it. The eyes closed for good, and it's just you're watching two legendary characters played by two legendary actors just at the at the top of their craft in this moment and throughout this entire series, and you can tell that they they they played these two characters like they like they believed they were the equivalent of King Lear or Hamlet or any of those other great literary characters. It's all there on the screen.

00:59:10
Speaker 1: Lonesome Dove was a huge cultural event at the time of its release. I mean, I you know, it was appointment viewing for my parents at in our house. I can recall that, and I don't know if they just wanted me out of the way, but I didn't watch it then, And yeah, I wasn't able to get to it this time, but I'm glad you made the time for it. I did make time for a movie that ended up being my number one pick though, And it's you know, you have sometimes homework for these lists where you're glad you saw it. You know, I would say for great Santini, I'm glad I watched it. Good film, you know, is it great?

00:59:45
Speaker 9: No?

00:59:46
Speaker 1: But you've heard about it, you know, the reputation, especially in relation to Duval. I'm glad I watched it. Then you have some titles and it's like, oh, that's a revelation, like what took me so long? And that's what I would say about Tender Mercies. I would say this to people who kind of know what it is and it doesn't you know it sounds Yeah. Maybe if you love Paris, Texas and you haven't seen Tender Mercies, I think this should be your next watch. I think this came out a year earlier. Yeah, I think I have that right. And it's very much a spiritual and esthetic sibling as well. This is a gorgeous movie in a different way than Paris Texas's, but I was thinking about both hand in hand. So that's just a bit of encouragement. If you need one more nudge to see Tender Mercies, here's a second, and it's this scene with Duval Wings of a Dove and Duval here plays Max Sledge, a alcoholic former country music star who wakes up at a roadside Texas motel after being abandoned by his traveling companion. That's how we meet him at the beginning. Tess Harper plays Rosa Lee, the devout single mother and owner of the motel. She lets him work off his unpaid bill she hires him eventually to do odd jobs, and this puts Mac on a path towards toward redemption like so many Duval characters. But yeah, as with those characters, Mac really struggles, struggles to let it stick, but never in the ways you expect, like it flirts with you know, the bender montage right right, and very skillfully works its way around it without making it a moment of triumph necessarily for Mac. I should probably know at this point. Director is Bruce Beresford gets a lot of credit for this, and it's from an original screenplay by Horton Foot. So the scene, Okay, this struggle for Mac involves many quietly stunning scenes in this I've got two honorable mentions that come from tender mercies, but I went with the one that offered me the biggest gut punch. Mac has gotten a surprise visit from his adult estranged daughter played by young Allen Barkin, and in their conversation, she asks him if he remembers this song he used to sing to her when she was little.

01:02:08
Speaker 8: It was a song you used to sing to me when I was little. I think it was something about a dove, almost says she never heard you sing it to me. I think it went something about on the wings of a snow wat dove. He sends his something something love.

01:02:32
Speaker 3: I don't remember that.

01:02:33
Speaker 1: I don't And you know he's he's been kind to her and you know, open to a new relationship. This has been a very you know, congenial exchange. And he just says, no, you know, I'm sorry, I don't remember it. She leaves. We are left in the room with Duval, and he goes over to a window, turns his back to the camera and just softly begins singing that very song, wings of a dove.

01:02:59
Speaker 9: When Jesus went through the waters that day, he was bad in the usual way.

01:03:12
Speaker 1: And this is a nineteen fifty eight I guess country spiritual. You'd call it. Written by Bob Ferguson. It's been covered by countless artists. I don't know, Adam, if there are many other scenes in cinema where an actor conveys more than Duval does here by doing less.

01:03:30
Speaker 2: With his back turned to the camera.

01:03:32
Speaker 1: It starts there. It starts with that choice, and not only that, but Beresford's choice to keep the camera at a distance from across the room. So this is a full length body shot. We're that far away from Mac and he's singing softly, quietly, barely moving until he gets to the chorus. And this is where you remember this guy's you know, he's also a musician and a performer. And he shifts his weight the slightest bit for the chorus, very slightly, starts swinging to the rhythm, getting a little bit louder, and then quietly drifts off again, shifts his weight once more and lets out this sigh. That's it, But I mean, it's incredible and so complicated. This is the mystery we were talking about before with that killgore line reading Why did he lie to his daughter in the first place? What is he thinking while saying I'm happy to talk about it, okay, I mean we yeah, we have, we can talk about it. And why can we talk about it? Because Duval gave us that gift of wonder that's right and theorizing. Rather than clearly communicating it, he doesn't attempt to explain any of it the movie. Again credit to Beresford and foot screenplay. The movie does not as well, just worth noting Duval does his own singing here and throughout Tender Mercies there's a lot of music, and I, yeah.

01:05:10
Speaker 6: I do know.

01:05:11
Speaker 1: We both kind of like stumbled into talking about this early because this was a bit of an awakening experience for you too, Tender miss Yeah.

01:05:20
Speaker 2: I really the film. It was one I needed to watch as homework for this list, same as you, and we did discuss this very briefly on air even and off air, as I recall, and I just knew. I just knew when I watched this scene. I knew this was going to make my list. I knew it was going to be high on my list. And then my next thought was, I hope somehow Josh is taken with some other scene, he doesn't see the brilliance of this scene, and he's going to be pulled in a different direction and he'll have something else for Tender Mercies. And then sure enough, we both saw the magic of this one because it's my number one as well. And I do. I like the connection. I like the connection you're making. I like the comparison to Paris, Texas. I absolutely see it, and I think I think there's accuracy there. And I could see someone hearing that who hasn't seen this film and seeking it out because of that It is different in its esthetic choices for sure, in just overall how challenging it is. I would say in terms of its ambiguity, there isn't as much ambiguity or mystery to Tender Mercy as there is as there is in Paris, Texas. But in some of those artistic choices. And I laugh a little bit when I say this, because I want to be careful the choice of the shot that you're mentioning, not just to have it be a long shot see the entire body, to have him across the room, and to have the restraint to be that restraint to not tip anything emotionally, to allow us to just keep that distance. That is one great artistic choice in and of itself. But the reason I was kind of chuckling is because I'm watching this online, Josh, and it's been now at least a month since I saw Tender Mercies on the screen, so I don't really remember it on the screen. I only remember watching the YouTube clip. And the YouTube clip is sort of like you know, a VHS worn copy looking on YouTube, right, and it actually gives it more texture, and in some ways the YouTube clip makes it look better because it makes it look more worn, and you realize, I'm guessing this still transfers to the actual crisper looking version on the screen too. But the framing draws so much attention to the color palette, all the browns and the different colors that are in that, the choices they made in the production design and with the lighting to shoot that, that place where they live, the very modest home that they live in, the types of furniture they have, the types of paintings they have on the wall, the type of television set they have. All of this is none of this is by accident, right, and it creates a tableau that looks like a post. You could take that out. You could take that frame out of Max Sledge looking out the window, of Duval looking out the window, and you could hang that in a museum that is a portrait, that is a gorgeous portrait, and put ten different titles on it and assign to ten different people or one hundred different people that walk through. They could they could put onto that their own thoughts about what they think they're looking at and what that man is thinking. All because of the different the ambiguity, but because of the different layers that are there in the colors in the choices of the design of it. It's it's that gorgeous of a shot. It really is as simple as it ultimately is. And you know, I like ending with this for my theme as well, because this other other than that opening scene, and if I remember it correctly, we don't really see Duval. There's there's definitely a bunch of rabble rousing going on. He's he's carrying on. There's alcohol and you know, a bunch of partying. But then when we really meet him, it's the aftermath of that the next night, and the movie then really begins after that. So this is like fully humbled Duval. This movie, Max Sledge is pretty much fully humbled. Like I'm trying to turn over a new leaf. Yeah, no more country singing, no more honky tonkin, you know, hanky tonkin. I'm just now trying to just be a normal guy and put alcohol behind me. And now I'm gonna, you know, maybe try to be a family man. And on the quieter side, Josh, he he not only barely raises his voice when he sings, he barely raises his voice, you know. He he keeps everything at a certain decibel level. And as a viewer. We know he's a flawed you know, he's a flawed character. He's a he's a human being, he's a flawed man. But as a viewer, I'm on Max's side. I'm rooting for him. And as soon as his Ellen Barkin right, a very young Ellen Barkin, starts to ask, hey, do you remember, like we kind of know where this is going, right, and we're hoping. We know that he wants to make this connection with his daughter. We know that he does because he sought her out already, you know, earlier when he went to the show that his ex wife was performing at and he was looking for his daughter. We're rooting for him. We hope he'll remember and that they'll have this moment together. And I remember so closely studying I'm not going to say, duval, I'm studying Max Sledge's face. I'm watching Max so closely. As she's finishing her question, I'm watching him in close up as she says, do you remember that song he used to sing to me? It was something like, you know, the Wings of a Dove? And that pause that he has he looks away and then he looks back at her right, and he says, I don't remember that. I don't. And maybe now, Josh, now that we know the truth, maybe the fact that he adds I don't after already saying I don't remember that that should have been a tell that he was protesting too much, right, But I was studying him so closely. I was sure that he genuinely didn't remember. I don't know about you, but I was sure he was telling the truth in the moment that he did not remember, or maybe it never even happened, that she was conflating something from her childhood, some other memory, but this didn't happen, right, or he just didn't remember it. And here again is the restraint to have Matt come back in, go to the window, look at her leaving, and start singing the song Hold that tableau shot. He knows the truth and the only other people who are going to ever know the truth are us the audience, right, and she'll never know the truth. And the way I what hits me so hard about that scene is that he he could have This is why the moment you said at the top of the top five about being irredeemable. The irony about that is is that this character Max Sledge could have had that moment of redemption, and maybe even we could say deserves in some way to have it, because he seems like a character who genuinely wants it and has changed his life in some ways to earn it, and he wants it there. Who wouldn't want it there?

01:12:42
Speaker 1: Right?

01:12:43
Speaker 2: But he has a little bit of perspective finally, and he lies to her. And I think he lies to her because he has enough perspective to know, and he's actually caring enough to know. He actually listened to his ex wife as much as they fight. He listened to her enough the night before when he saw her at the show. He knows that what his daughter is putting He knows what his daughter is putting his wife through, and some of it is her rebelliousness, right, But he knows that they're having a tough time, and he knows that with his daughter coming out to see him, that all it would take is for him to verify that shared memory and sing that song to her now, and she would She would almost certainly melt, and she would be, if not full on, she'd be a lot closer to being Daddy's girl. And some of that would be to hurt her mom, right, Part of that rebelliousness, but partly it would be to fill that void. That would be such a huge step. If they had that moment of singing that song together, him singing that song, it would be like they were father and daughter again, and everything in the past was water under the bridge. I think he understands how powerful that could be, how genuinely redemptive that moment would be, and he knows that he hasn't truly earned it, He doesn't deserve that redemption, and so he sacrifices the satisfaction that he would get in that moment, the beauty that he would he would share with her in that moment. He sacrifices it because he hasn't earned it, he doesn't deserve the redemption.

01:14:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a I mean, I think that's a fair reading, and it connects very much to you know, the pick from get Low that I made with Felix Bush, the hermit who wanted to punish himself for decades. You know, you do wonder watching Max Sledge he becomes in trying to turn his life around. He becomes something of a monk, but with a newfound family and responsibilities. But he's at this very isolated place with strict daily duties and routines. Yeah, and I think part of the emotional processing here might be that entering having her enter his life, his daughter again, disrupts all of that, which is a very fragile place. Now there's a part of him that probably wants to And I also, you know, there's another element at play here, which are her motives, his daughter's motives, which we learn more about as as the movie goes on. But you can get a sense of as you suggested, she's obviously trying to play parents against each other again. But how genuine is this desire for connection? Is something else he's processing. So yeah, just to allow all of this to percolate in a moment where he's alone in the scene and he's not even looking at towards the camera.

01:15:47
Speaker 2: Right, and the mask for an actor too, I mean to have the humility as an actor to know that this could be your your biggest dramatic moment in many ways in the entire film, and to not say, you know, when I start singing it, be sure to cut to a close up from the side where I'm going to have a little tear come down my face. I got a shite The emotion on my face. Duval doesn't, he doesn't care. Go ahead and keep the camera back there.

01:16:19
Speaker 1: Ninety nine out of one hundred films with this scene would cut take outside looking at him through the window. Absolutely, and maybe even make it raining outside so that they're in.

01:16:29
Speaker 2: The reflection of her car driving away.

01:16:32
Speaker 1: Yeah right, and this is just notpe. We're going to sit here and let him have the the privacy of this of this space. Yeah, it's incredible, it is.

01:16:41
Speaker 2: Those are our top five Robert Duval scenes. We've heard a few honorable mentions along the way. Any you would like to remention or highlight that haven't come up yet.

01:16:52
Speaker 1: I think you know the ones you had on your list that I didn't, I would include his honorable mentions. And the one that hasn't come up is I didn't get a chance to chase down this scene. But looking back at some of my reviews of duval movies Crazy Heart, he has a small supporting role, and there's a moment where I just wrote an excellent Robert Duval who saves Blake. That's Jeff Bridges right, and Crazy Heart saves Blake, and the movie really with a few honest words in a fishing trip, So that stood out to me, especially in the context of our discussion here where honest has come up a couple times, So maybe that crazy heart scene is worth considering. Otherwise, Yeah, Tom Hagen, you mentioned to kill a mocking bird as bou Radley the other Tender Mercies options. I thought for sure, Adam, that you might go. I had the same experience as we talked about. I thought for sure you were going to go with the guitar lesson early on Tender Mercies where he's teaching Rosalie's son how to play guitar, and the climactic I think it's I think it's the second to last scene perhaps where he's out tending the garden with Rosalie, and I'll just say he gets some tragic news or is processing recent tragic news and he's complaining about unanswered prayer. We're back to the apostle here. Just why but the way Duval plays it physically, they're in this shared garden and he's very gently patting the earth as as you need to to not like, not damage the seeds, even though everything else about him is expressing this confusion and rage. There's just there's something about the gentility we've touched on with Duval, right, that comes out in that scene is that even though this is a low point in his life, he's very carefully patting the earth as you know, as a good gardener would. So that would have been maybe I could you know, I could have done a top five of tender mercy scenes with obviously.

01:18:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, let's see yelling at the Lord an apostle, Boo Radley, smell a napalm? What hasn't come up? Don't worry about anything, Frankie. Five angels in The Godfather Part two, that scene, Josh, if you remember The Godfather of part two is when he goes and this is the magic of Duval and Tom Hagen and you were you were getting around this a little bit when you were talking about how he's in the background and he has so much power, but he's in the background. Until I considered it for this top five, I didn't fully process to I didn't fully process the extent to which in that scene. And I know people listeners are like, yeah, of course that's what the scene is about. No, I know, I didn't fully process the extent to which he is the puppet master sending Frankie five angels to his death in that scene, and he's doing it in the nicest way possible. He's he doesn't even directly say anything. He only hints at and alludes to things and mentions things from history and sends him off with a smile and shaking his hands, and and Frankie thanks him for it because he tells him his family will be taken care of. You could listen to that entire conversation ten times and never know that Tom Hagen basically said, Hey, be sure tonight to take a bath and slit your wrists and die because you went against the family.

01:20:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one of the That was one of The Godfather's scenes. I definitely thought about going with.

01:20:23
Speaker 2: If it's so good, It's so good now again from The Godfather one mister Waltz. The the not only when he says I'm German Irish and he says, well, you know my Krowt Mick friend, but but the the moment when Duval but just one of those idiosyncratic Duval line readings when when he catches you almost feel like he had to catch other actors off guard. When when they're having a nice dinner and then mister Waltz gets all heated and does the whole you know, I'm never gonna give Johnny Fontaine a role. It'll make him a star again. And I ain't no band leader, right And and what does what does Tom do? What does Duval do? He just he he makes a face like, well that got out of hand, and he just then puts his the napkin in his lap and he gets up and is like, thank you for a lovely evening. Maybe one of your cars can take me to the airport. And you can see that the character mister Waltz is sort of stunned, like I didn't like he expected to have a battle, right. But Tom instead, of course, is just like you know, he's just like, well, mister Corleone doesn't doesn't want to hear he wants to hear bad news in person. And just the way the way he delivers that is just so kind of matter of fact. And I'm just going to get out of here now. And he doesn't fight back at all. And the way the way Duval does that, I just think is so much fun to watch. A couple other characters I'll mention talk about in need of humbling another one that's like, oh my god, Frank Hackett level come up and Max Mercy in The Natural, the scumbag journalist in the Natural. I do, I do like him. I'm not picking individual scenes here, but I like him as Frank Burns and mash Bernie White in The Paper Boss Spearman in Open Range, the Kevin Costner film, and that's just classically good movie. Yeah, that's just that's just that's just Duval in classic like grizzled wise, old Western guy mode and just a blast to watch. Right. And then you know, he only appears in two scenes, but he makes them fun in the two scenes he appears in with Tom Cruise and Jack Reacher, so I'll mention them here in my ausable.

01:22:39
Speaker 1: I thought you were going He's in Days of Thunder too, right.

01:22:42
Speaker 2: He is in Days of Thunder. I mean, whatever it is, Days of Thunder is Days of Thunder. And that's that's all I'll say about that. Those are our top five Robert Duval scenes. We would love to hear your picks. You can email us feedback at film spotting dot net. We may share your feedback on an upcoming show. You can also find our lists and links to the scenes we mentioned by going to film spotting dot net and clicking on lists right there at the top of the page.

01:23:13
Speaker 4: You know that gasoline smell, oh hell.

01:23:18
Speaker 8: Smell.

01:23:18
Speaker 7: Fuck thank you for.

01:23:26
Speaker 1: We'd like to mention the Film Spotting Family here on the show every once in a while. And those of you who aren't part of the family might be wondering why take that leap? Why join? Well, here's some good reasons. It's only for ninety nine a month to join, and for that small amount, here's what you get. Bonus shows every month, ad free listening every episode, you can join the conversation on the Film Spotting Family discord. You'll also receive our newsletter once a week, and you'll get pre sales and discounts on live events. Of course, that four ninety nine a month price tag that becomes discounted if you decide to pay annually.

01:24:06
Speaker 2: If you do the math, and I know you love to do the math, it's only seventy six cents more per month if you break it up that way. If you do the annual family plus plan, that means you get all those benefits you mentioned, plus complete access to the Film Spotting Archive. You can learn everything you need to know at Filmspottingfamily dot com.

01:24:27
Speaker 1: Let's thank a couple of film Spotting Family members here Brad in Denver and then Spotting Family Plus member JP Aguire who is in Fontana, Florida. JP wrote in this found you in college around twenty fourteen. It was the end of the year list and finding an hour long podcast where people were talking about the top films of the year made me so happy, and to hear people who love film made me feel like I found home. I think Jp probably meant there hours long. I don't know that we've ever done an end of the year list that's an hour long.

01:25:02
Speaker 2: I think we're probably not. Yeah, half a segment. Just remember that part about people who love film. Just put a pin in that for later, Okay. Josh Brad says his favorite part of the show maybe outside the criteria, but the Varda marathon was great. She can do no wrong. Yeah accurate. JP says love when you do deep dives on certain directors and can't wait for Oh so this must have been submitted a while back. I hope he enjoyed our Andre Tarkovski Marathon. We do have a roll link submission list here, so yes, we did Tarkovski back in twenty twenty five, and if you missed the announcement last week, we did tell you our twenty twenty six marathon lineup Dissident Cinema that's coming in three or four weeks. It will begin and you can find that entire lineup at filmspotting dot net slash Marathons.

01:25:50
Speaker 1: JP and Brad also weighed in on reviews we got wrong. For JP, It's shash Ank Redemption. You guys praised it, but this movie, more than so many others, is a nostalgic mid movie at best, and made me happy to see. At least Sam agrees with me. Brad, for his part, said, I don't understand the praise for past lives.

01:26:10
Speaker 2: Okay, movies they credit with becoming cinophiles. JP says Seven Samurai, which my dad showed me when I was about five years old. Brad says, the win that shakes the barley interesting.

01:26:21
Speaker 1: We also love it when family members recommend books about movies or movie making. Brad highlighted Cameraman by Dana Stevens. Of course that's a great one, and for JP, one that I am going to get around to at some point, I promise Andrei Tarkowski's sculpting in time.

01:26:39
Speaker 2: We do thank Brad and JP for being family members and for all of their years of listening. You can follow Brad on letterboxed at brad LEO one sixty five. JP is at JP is me? That's me M three, So JP iss M three. Now. I did want to share this. Remember last week we were having a little bit of an issue deciphering is it Cachet is it Cash?

01:27:04
Speaker 1: Yes, we weren't sure.

01:27:05
Speaker 2: Well, we didn't get an email from Cash, but I think this speaks to the great community that is film spotting. We got an email from a listener named James who said, heads up, my favorite film spotters, Cash may perhaps be too de mirror to weigh in himself, so I wanted to let you know. His name is indeed pronounced cash, and his letterbox handle is cash eel so c A C H E E L L. I was tickled to hear him shouted out on last week's show. Cash and I met thanks to the film Spotting Discord, and have since been too many movies together by ourselves and with our respective wives. The power of the film spotting family. See you at Film Spotting Fest James, how about that? How about that? So we solved that, and we found out that two listeners met, family members met through the discord, hanging out, going on double dates. It's it's always heartwarming to hear about. So in addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, your membership does come with various perks, like Josh mentioned, and we're getting ready here pretty soon to record our April bonus, which is an ask us anything addition, which yes we do cover movies, but usually at least the other half is not movie late at all and more person random talk. Yeah, random stuff. So more about joining the family again available at film Spottingfamily dot com. We do also like to mention here that you can help a show like ours, which is still independently produced, has been for twenty years, by rating or reviewing us on Apple Podcasts Spotify again, we have a five star rating system there. We have it on Apple podcasts, and Josh, I do just want you, I want you to humor me for a minute, okay, because this is fine. I think this is funny and it's not. I think in twenty years we have never once bemoaned a negative review. And if you look at you, if you look at no listen. If you look at Apple podcasts, we have We've been around for twenty years and if you look at Apple Podcasts, we have almost four thousand, I think four thousand ratings and we have like a four point six out of five. I am. I am so overjoyed with how how people feel about the show. I will never critique an individual rating or an individual review, but this was funny to me. I think I was looking at I had to look up something over on Apple Podcasts, and I was like, oh man, I haven't looked at reviews in a long time. I made the mistake of looking okay, and I have to read this to you. It's very short and get your response to it. Okay. Here it is. Subject of the review is the you know show exclamation point amateur's exclamation point update. Tried listening again after years of ignoring them, and there were five hundred you knows within the first minute. These self proclaimed self proclaimed film freaks have the most incredible ability to come up with reasons to dislike nearly every film in existence. Great films are remembered forever, not the critics who bashed them. And that was a one out of five star review. So you think it's possible, Josh, that that was intended for a different podcast.

01:30:28
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, sometimes people review podcasts not realizing they're thinking of another podcast. Also, whoever that podcast is. I like this notion that they're apparently broadcasting beneath this person's window. They tried to ignore them.

01:30:47
Speaker 2: They tried to.

01:30:48
Speaker 1: It's not that hard to ignore them.

01:30:50
Speaker 2: They tried to, but they just found themselves clicking on it. You just never can tell.

01:30:53
Speaker 1: Don't you don't follow the show, but apparently this podcast is broadcasting Yeah, out on the sidewalk twenty four to seven, and it's it's really hard clear though.

01:31:03
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't feel as if we say you know a lot. But I know this for sure. We'd never once referred to ourselves as film freaks. Those two words have never been uttered in this show's history until right now.

01:31:20
Speaker 1: I don't think I've used that.

01:31:21
Speaker 2: And also, going back to the little note I made when we were reading those comments, don't we probably have a history of liking more movies than bashing movies. I'm just certain, Yeah, I am.

01:31:35
Speaker 1: The reviews stay out as as positive, which is not because we're not willing to give a negative review. We just generally choose. We don't review everything, so we generally choose titles that we that we think we'll likely have a good experience with. Right, So I just I couldn't resist. I saw that.

01:31:56
Speaker 2: I was like, wait a second, this is a negative review and there's no way it's even about our show. What are we doing here? Apple podcasts?

01:32:03
Speaker 1: Now, let me ask you this has Has this little session helped? Do you think you'll will you sleep a little better tonight? Will you forget about this person?

01:32:10
Speaker 2: Or I don't know, I have forgotten now I've brought it back. Look, just I guess I'm using it. I would love Film Spotting listeners go rate us on Apple Podcasts and cast that one to the back of the reviews. Then I'll feel better.

01:32:26
Speaker 1: Bump it down. Okay, bump it.

01:32:28
Speaker 2: Down, and I'll then feel fairness better.

01:32:31
Speaker 1: Okay, Reef Hawk, for the last four decades America's favorite movie star, starring in three of the biggest franchises in film history. You've had five years off. How are you going to frame the five years thing?

01:32:45
Speaker 2: I won't say that I was hiding a heroin addiction from the public and that my best friends and my insane lawyer have me cover it up for years. That is a really smarter mission Trauma miss Today, I walk Outcome, as we said last week on the show, perfect example of a movie nowhere near our radar. We need our Streaming Video Unit investigators Matt Singer and Jordan Hoffman to make us aware of to tell us whether or not you know we should we should be on the case or not, whether or not would be paying attention to it. Well, I haven't listened to the entire episode, but based on what I know, it sounds like we don't need to be paying too much attention to Outcome.

01:33:31
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, they took the hit for us.

01:33:34
Speaker 2: Is this gonna be the.

01:33:35
Speaker 1: Subtitle of SVU? We investigated so.

01:33:39
Speaker 2: You don't have to Yeah, it might be. We will see next week. Because here's another one that I had no idea about, and boy does it have an entertaining title. And if I gave you if I just told you the title and then said, I'm going to give you three guesses it's a known director. I'm going to give you three three guesses which director it is. I bet you would have gotten it if you haven't looked we can play this game. I bet you could get it within two guesses. Okay, it's a new Amazon Prime comedy. It's definitely a director, well done. It's definitely a director. You know. The film is called Balls Up?

01:34:17
Speaker 1: Who does most of Adam Sam Netflix stuff. I'm blanking.

01:34:23
Speaker 2: I see where you're going. But that's not it. Bryant, is no David or something like that. No, I'll say, just give it to me, Peter Fairley. Doesn't it sound like a fairly production? Balls Up?

01:34:37
Speaker 1: Does? Is he back to.

01:34:41
Speaker 3: Wait?

01:34:42
Speaker 1: I didn't know post green Book he's doing because he was green Book?

01:34:45
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah he was. Well he's got he's got new bastards. Uh huh, he's got a new one with Mark Wahlberg and Paul Walter Houser. There you go. So you can hear next week every Tuesday in your Film Spotting feed. You can hear Film Spotting SVU. They talk about new streaming movies like Balls Up. They also share some related streaming recommendations, and they debuted a new game called letter boxting. Mmmm letter boxing.

01:35:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, curious prod.

01:35:21
Speaker 2: Played that last week?

01:35:22
Speaker 1: Did he really? He did?

01:35:23
Speaker 2: He joined the show.

01:35:25
Speaker 1: So a couple of extra reasons to make sure I listened to that shortly here.

01:35:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. New episodes, as I mentioned, drop every Tuesday in the Film Spotting Feed wherever you get your podcasts.

01:35:38
Speaker 1: Don't forget to still make room for our other sister podcast, The Next Picture Show, looking at Cinema's present via its past. As a matter of fact, they have a new pairing beginning just this week. They're looking at the drama alongside David Cronenberg's A History of Violence. So this first episode is a History of Violence, which a beloved early Film Spotting movie I unders sand Adam, Yeah.

01:36:06
Speaker 2: Number one film of the year two thousand and five. Adam and Sam. We both we agreed on it that it was the best film of that year. I mean, we might have seen that first year of Film Spotting seventeen movies, but tween us. So I don't know how much stock you want to put in that, but we agreed that we love that movie. And I do say this from time to time. I mean, they always do great work on The Next Picture Show and their pairings are always on point, but this one's particularly inspired because it's one that doesn't have an obvious corollary. The tomic don't have just an obvious one to put with it, and this one makes you think for a second. You have to say, okay, why exactly a history of violence? And then you go, I get it. Okay, secrets, married couples, the split. What do I think of my partner now that I know this? It's great?

01:36:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do enjoy those pairings as well. For the next Picture show, just look for episodes every Tuesday and you can find those wherever you get your podcasts.

01:37:07
Speaker 2: Okay, we have the big news finally to share. We've been teasing it for weeks, giving you a little breadcrumbs. Finally we have some real details to share about Film spotting Fest two, or how we are at least lovingly nicknaming it, if not officially naming it. Too fast to film spotting it will.

01:37:31
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's going to make the posters, but it should.

01:37:33
Speaker 2: No, but it should. June twenty seventh and twenty eighth in Chicago. You've saved the dates. We've told you the venues, the Athenaeum Center for Culture and Thought, the Music Box Theater. Now we need to give you the movie titles yea, and a few more details, and before we give you the movie titles. Just a quick sketch of how we approach this, and it goes back to what we did last year with the inaugural Film Spotting Fest, and that was different, of course, because it was celebrating twenty years of Film Spotting and it was a bigger event, six films over kind of two and a half days. But we're approaching it the same and that we're trying to represent what the show is, and that means we are thinking about Pantheon time, We're thinking about marathon titles, We're thinking about Golden Bricks, discoveries, things like that. We're also just thinking about titles that will be good fun, communal experiences and other connections to the show. So all of those things are in our mind when we think about these titles. We want people to see the lineup and think that feels like Film Spotting. We get it. I cauld be gun it.

01:38:48
Speaker 1: I think with this mix we've managed to do that. I mean, speaking of Pantheon titles, we're going to kick off the fest with the most one of the two most recent inductees to the Pantheon, Agnes vardas Cleo from five to seven. I think it was inducted two weeks ago. Maybe, yeah, maybe something like that. And yeah, so that'll be Saturday, the twenty seventh at the Athenam Center. Probably is that going to be like a late morning I think is Nam will be atleven am. We'll be kicking things off with Cleo from five to seven.

01:39:23
Speaker 2: That's right. And I've touched on this, I think a little bit. But if you were a participant in Film Spotting Fest last year, we crammed a lot in and fortunately everybody was game, Josh. Our festgoers were awesome. They barely had time to use the restroom much less, you know, get a snack before they had to get back in the theater. Four movies in one day. In the case of the Saturday at the Cisco, we have three movies in one day now, and the movies are all a little bit shorter. That wasn't planned, that just worked out. But also we have more time built in and it's just gonna be more relaxing all around. Also, since we're at the ath and Am, we're gonna have more of a neighborhood to kind of roam around in more restaurants, So we think it's gonna be just more relaxing in general, and that one starts at eleven. We'll have our Q and A and everything after, as we always will with a guest, and then at three o'clock Kresha, twenty sixteen Golden Brick nominee and currently scheduled writer director Trey Edward Schultz will be joining us at the Athenaeum for that screening to do an intro and joining us on stage after for a conversation about the movie.

01:40:42
Speaker 1: I like the tradition we're already establishing is include at least one nerve jangling title. I think we could say Take Shelter filled that yees the inaugural film spotting Fest, and here now with take Shelter is also Yeah, buckle up for this one. A great one to have a conversation about afterwards as well, let alone. Hopefully likely it looks like at this point we will be having that with director Trey Edward Schultz.

01:41:10
Speaker 2: But then after it gets you know, it starts out a little bit, a little bit harrowing with Cleo, gets more intense, way more intense with Kresha. But then we all get to come down, We get to chill, we get to laugh, we get to be a bit ridiculous celebrating the twenty fifth anniversary of one of the great cult comedies of the twenty first century, directed by friend of the show David Wayne, Wet Hot American Summer in that seven PM slot. That will be fun, And it's going to be extra fun because Katie from the film Marguerite Moreau, is going to be joining us for that screening and the intro in Q and A.

01:41:54
Speaker 1: After The love for this movie is just off the charts and seems to grow every year. And I'm especially eager for this because while I liked it when it came out, I feel like, for whatever reason, I didn't join in that fervor that everyone else had and has grown. So I'm going to be one of joined the crowd a little bit late perhaps, And yeah, another great Q and A afterwards. Comedies like this, you've got to have that experience with a pack theater. It'll be so fun to do that with Wet Hot American Summer coming up here this.

01:42:28
Speaker 2: Summer, closing it out Sunday morning, late morning screening on the twenty eighth, another twenty fifth anniversary screening a Pantheon film, and the theme here all of these movies have something in common in terms of time, whether it's sort of characters haunted by the past. We have with Cleo, a movie that's effectively in real time. Five to seven is built into the title. Obviously, you have a film like Wet Hot American Summer, which is made in two thousand and one, but is looking back, you know, said in nineteen eighty one, the characters in Tenebombs, that's the movie we have here in that Sunday morning slot, the Royal ten and Bombs, where those characters are still unable to get past what they see as the sins of the father right and the children and the promised, the promising children that they once were. That's that's why we have that movie closing out the fest, you know, in addition to the fact that it's one of our favorite films of all time from one of our favorite filmmakers. And seeing that at the Music Box with Michael Phillips, who was unable to be due to a scheduling issue, unable to be at Film Spotting Fest one. He's going to be here at the Music Box with us now to talk about that.

01:43:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, what a shame that he couldn't be there, but to bring him in for this is perfect. I can't wait for it. I don't know if I've had you know, we had Sam on for our Sacred Cow review of Royal Tenebaums many many years ago. I feel like we did that in Spring Green together.

01:43:59
Speaker 2: Did it in Spring Green somehow? I even know the episode is like five eighty nine.

01:44:03
Speaker 1: Okay, So yeah, so the three of us have dug into a Royal ten of Baums quite a bit. Bringing Michael into the fold. Having him in the mix will be wonderful. So yeah, yeah, I love the lineup. I think it's a good mix of types of experiences, all which lend themselves to good conversations which we'll be having afterwards and between. This is going to be a lot of fun. And you know, we mention the Film Spotting Family, and one of the benefits of joining the Film Spotting Family are access and discounts two live events like that, so like this, So it will be the case with Film Spotting Fest. Family members will get access to tickets before everyone else and also a discount, and we're doing a meet and greet type thing as well for family ours.

01:44:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's going to be quite an affair for film Spotting family members, and I do need to go back extra plug here for people to want to come to the best. Michael Phillips has already told me he's gonna dress like Richie for the screening, so.

01:45:12
Speaker 1: Short, if I had my choice, Yeah, Richie's good, Richie's good. Yeah that okay, I think that works.

01:45:18
Speaker 2: So maybe that's not true, but we'll see what We'll see what we can do film Spotting family members. This does get us right into ticket information. Friday, Friday, April twenty fourth is when tickets will go on sale at noon. Film spottingfest dot com is the hub for all of your information. You can go there now right at this moment. Depending on when you're listening, you will not see links to buy tickets. They will not be available until Friday, April twenty fourth at noon. But for film Spotting family members you will have access. We will share a link with you privately. You'll have access a couple days before, so Wednesday, April twenty second, at noon is when you'll get the link, so you'll get first access to tickets for all of those. Okay. Also, the way we're doing this is you can buy tickets individually for all four movies, or you can buy a festival pass for the three movies on Saturday at the Athenam and you get a discount if you buy. Everybody gets a discount if you buy the festival pass to the three films. The Film Spotting Family members get an even larger discount when you buy that festival pass. In addition to getting earlier tickets and a bigger discount on the festival pass, we are going to have a special meet and greet just for Film Spotting Family Members with us and our special guests prior to the wet, hot American Summer screening at the athen Am. So it really does benefit you to get the benefits of being a Film Spotting Family member. Film Spotting Family dot com is where you should sign up, and film Spottingfest dot com is where you should go to get all of your details about the festival. We really are excited about it. We didn't envision when we did Film Spotting Fest last year celebrating twenty years, that we were going to do this every year. I don't know if it's the smartest thing for us to do, but damn that we had so much fun we couldn't help but try it. Again, and it's coming together and we're happy with how it's come together, so we're doing it again. It's happening again.

01:47:29
Speaker 1: So that's one save the date to put in your calendars. June twenty seven to twenty eight in Chicago. I have another save the date for you coming up more quickly here and far away from Chicago. I'm going to do an Edinburgh meetup Saturday May two, So yeah, just around the corner. But this will be the last meetup of what's turned out to be a little bit of a world tour I guess you know, a UK slash European tour of meetups I've been able to do these last nine months or so that I've been studying in Scotland. Definitely wanted to have one here in Scotland. Have met so many wonderful people, some of who are already familiar with the show, some of whom have come to know the show and to do that before I leave. So Saturday May two is when we're going to be having that. I'm also coming fresh off the Berlin meetup, so want to say thank you to the folks who came to that and give a little bit of a report. We actually we were having so much fun talking, Debbie and I just pushed our dinner reservations back. We were in the same place we were going to be having a meal, and they were kind enough, They're like, yeah, well we'll hold your table. You guys just keep chatting. So so thank you very much to Murritz, O'Neill, Mikil and Uva who all came out. Uva especially made We mentioned this Adam earlier on a show. A four hour train from Munich to hang out.

01:48:52
Speaker 2: How many beers did you buy?

01:48:54
Speaker 1: Well, we went fancy. We had cocktails at the lounge and yeah they were quite delicious. But we don't have any hotel bills for Uva. He stayed with his brother there in Berlin, so so that that worked out best probably for everybody. But yeah, thanks to that group for coming. It was a lot of fun. And next one up, as I said, closer to home for me right now, Edinburgh may too. Email us at feedback at film spotting dot net if you want details for that or let me know. I'm social. You can find me Larsen on film.

01:49:29
Speaker 2: Anything major decided at the Berlin Convention.

01:49:32
Speaker 1: The Berlin Convention, No, we talked about the drama, there was more support. I mean, I guess one resolution to come out is that people are concerned you might pull the plug someday on Massacre Theater. And that's not something I love, something Berlin wants to see happen. Yeah, so there is an official Berlin resolution in favor of keeping Massacre Theater.

01:50:00
Speaker 2: Okay, I might have to keep threatening this. This is good. Nobody else has ever danced the Red Shoes since you left. Nobody else ever shall.

01:50:12
Speaker 3: Like I probably should have told you this before, but you see, well, insanity runs in my family. If I could only get inside brain of yours and understand what makes you do these crazy twisted.

01:50:25
Speaker 1: Things, put on the Red.

01:50:27
Speaker 8: Shoes a key.

01:50:29
Speaker 1: And don's for us again.

01:50:32
Speaker 2: Spot forties madness. Josh, it's down to four films? Are you ready?

01:50:38
Speaker 1: We did it. We've incinerated how many classics at this point? Sixty? Right? Is the math work out that way?

01:50:44
Speaker 2: Yes, at least sixty more than that if you count the play ins. You're so proud. Yes, that's that's exactly what film spotting is all about, just destroying movies. Four films, two matchups. You can vote now at film spotting Madness dot Com polls close Mondays eleven fifty nine pm Central Time, and each new round opens on Tuesdays at noon Central Time. Again film Spotting Madness dot Com. The Elite eight results. We had two blowouts. We did have two matchups that were closer than you might expect, a little closer than I expected, but alas, no upsets, Josh. The first one our unrequited love matchup. How did it come out?

01:51:26
Speaker 1: This was Casablanca versus Brief Encounter, and it wasn't close. Casablanca eighty percent of the vote, taking out brief Encounter, which, yeah, I mean, you know, brief Encounter had some steam thought maybe is it put it?

01:51:42
Speaker 2: Possibly? No way, no way, Yeah, yeah, it was quick.

01:51:46
Speaker 1: You know.

01:51:47
Speaker 2: Sophie Pa behind the scenes was like, brief Encounters in the lead, is this gonna happen? What's gonna happen? And I'm like, no, this is just early Film Spotting family voting and they're weird and in this case and in this case right, I mean, because I also voted for brief Encounter, but no, eventually, Casablanca the Juggernaut's gonna take over, and it did. Here's Grant Averatt, Week four of Filling in blind spots to ethically vote for Casablanca, and this was the toughest week get brief encounter was incredible, gorgeous black and white cinematography, brilliant script, and while Celia john and is Laura one of the finest cinematic performances. I think I've ever seen five stars, but it's still no Casablanca. Wow.

01:52:28
Speaker 1: Few films are hold the rugout. Next matchup Citizen Kane versus his girl Friday, so the newspaperman newspaper woman matchup. Let's call it that. Kin also prevailed quite easily, seventy six percent to twenty four percent. We heard from Ethan Johnson, Citizen Kane is surely the better film, but Friday has given me the most joy of the two machine gun dialogue and charisma for days. Okay. Sean Means also weighed in as a longtime newspaper person. Citizen Kane and his Girl Friday are both high on my personal list of most watched movies. It's a tough pick, but I choose Walter Burns and Hildy Johnson over Charles Foster, Kane and Jed Leland, both for movie relationships and for who I'd hired to work at my paper. Okay, okay, it's yeah, interesting criteria.

01:53:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we'd all agree on those fronts, probably a little closer the number three seed, Double indemnity up against the number four seed? Or is it the number four seed? Yes, double indemnity up against the number five seed. The Third Man and double Indemnity took it fifty eight percent to forty two percent. Dave Allen says, scrolling down the pole page and seeing these two paired up elicited a groan, followed by a good deal of tense internal debate. These are both fantastic films, so I had to split hairs. The slightest edge went to the Third Man for the masterful camera work, and Well's speech in the Ferris Wheel, I already feel sad.

01:53:58
Speaker 1: Well, that's the madness experience, Dave. How about this from Joseph Carr. It's heartbreaking to vote against Alita Valley in the Third Man. She's suffered enough. But actually, maybe I can use madness incinerator rules to ensure she never has to suffer anymore by voting for double indemnity. So double indemnity it is. Barbara Stanwick gets to keep having her devilishly murderous fun. Well, who's gonna stop her? You're not gonna stop her. I'm not gonna stop Barbara Stanwick. The last matchup, it's a wonderful Life, the three seed up against our closest thing to a Cinderella. I guess the number six seed, the Red Shoes and the Red Shoes. It put up a good fight, Josh, but only only amass forty four percent of the vote. Here's Jennifer Milch. This one kills me. How do I choose between the pathos filled, funny sexy, the chemistry between Reed and Stuart, always moving, wonderful Life and the fever dreamy, surreal, tragic Shoes. I hate this matchup. I'm voting for Shoes because I think Life will win, but I want it to be close. Okay, also because the last dance in that movie is one of the most surprising, chilling and beautiful endings ever. To make this worse, I'm a huge David Lynch fan, and he loves both. Oh wow, Jennifer's just making things worse for herself by doing That's help the research.

01:55:21
Speaker 2: Mike Weston says, thanks to film spotting Madness, he actually saw both of these movies for the first time. Wow oh Wow. Voted for its Wonderful Life. But it was a close call, and it was our closest call, but still pretty decisive victory for It's a Wonderful Life. And that means that our final four is exactly the final four that we thought it would be. We have the number one seed Casablanca versus the number four seed Double Indemnity. We have the number two seed Citizen Kane versus the number three seed. It's a Wonderful Life. Now, Josh, are you going to surprise anyone with your choices?

01:56:00
Speaker 1: Here?

01:56:00
Speaker 2: Are you going with the top seeds? Is it one and two?

01:56:05
Speaker 1: Or yeah? I mean this is so boring. I wish I could annoy people, but it's pretty clear to me that out of these four, it's got to be Casablanca and Caine. I just I could try to come up with the contrarian argument, but I'd really be bending over backwards.

01:56:26
Speaker 2: Okay, I am going to go against the order of things a little bit. You know my love for Double Indemnity. I have it beating Casablanca in my personal preference vote, not in my bracket, and I do have Citizen Kane beating it's a wonderful life. I do, of course, think it's going to be Casablanca versus Citizen Kane in the final matchup. That is what I predicted, and we'll see how things go. But right now, for our show next week, our plan originally was to talk about the new David Lowry film Mother Mary. Doesn't look like that's going to work out for both of us schedule wise, in terms of what's available for us both to see theatrically. We had to pivot, and Citizen Kane has been on our calendar as part of our Pantheon project. It turns eighty five this year, so we needed to talk about Citizen Kane anyway, to check that box. You suggested maybe we should check that box now tying in with Madness, and we could bring Casablanca into the mix, because, as I think we recently put into the film Spotting Feed an archive drop that Casablanca conversation from I don't know, ten years ago or whatever was myself and Michael Phillips. You never got to talk about Casablanca. So what if we did sort of a Cane versus Casablanca, just like we did Rear Window versus Vertigo conversation, and I think that's what we're gonna do.

01:57:55
Speaker 1: That's right, that's the last time we did something like this, just embracing the madness, the ridiculousness of pitting these movies. Let's just not pit them against each other in a bracket, but in an actual conversation, right, And honestly, that's that's not the thinking about it. I think as that Vertigo rear window pairing revealed, is there will be ways these movies reflect off each other and bring things out of each other. And also I was thinking, we've joked about the fact of how do you talk about something like Citizen Kane. Right, It's been so studied, so discussed, it's so obviously great. What new could we bring to it? I feel we would have been up to that challenge, But this is kind of a nice workaround to that as well, is to think about it in light of something like Casablanca, So we'll see. This could be an experiment that blows up in our faces, especially if there's an upset in film spotty madness. But yeah, it wouldn't count on it. It sounds like a fun plan for now, and the stars did align with how the bracket was heading.

01:58:57
Speaker 2: There you go. So let's take a look at how things stand in the bracket prediction contest. We did have to kind of guestimate the results because we recorded both. We recorded the show before the polls it officially closed, but as anticipated, we had Lewis Hill. I don't know why he's called raising Caine here, that's a Sam nickname. He is at the top of the leader board. He maybe it has to do with the fact that he has Kane winning it all. He is at the top fifty nine out of sixty picks correct. He did only miss that one in round one, and he does have Casablanca versus Kane in the finals, with Caine taking it. The winner will likely be dictated by which film wins. Yes, it will come down to that almost certainly. If it's Kine, Lewis wins. If it's Casablanca, it looks like it will be Samuel too many Hitchcocks Maxton. He's currently in third place. He missed three picks in the first round, Josh, but he's been flawless since on a roll. Yes, if it's It's a Wonderful Life. Sam's doing the math here, He's done the breakdown. If it's It's a Wonderful Life or double indemnity. There are brackets out there that have gone with those films to win, and we shall see. So he decided I'm not gonna do further analysis. We'll just say fair enough, there are that could win.

02:00:22
Speaker 1: Now, y'all. Thank you, Sam.

02:00:23
Speaker 2: Yes, our bracket challenge, the internal bracket challenge. Guess who's in ninth place overall?

02:00:30
Speaker 6: Me?

02:00:30
Speaker 2: Not me? No, I am in. I am in ninth place. I've never been in the top ten.

02:00:36
Speaker 1: Print the banner.

02:00:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's gonna change, though, it's gonna change pretty quickly. I have a fear I am in ninth place. Sam is second, He's fiftieth overall. Good, Mike Marrigan is in third place. He's seventy first overall. And Josh, you're picking up the rear. You're two hundredth overall, and a big part of that has to do with you picking the third man over double. So it didn't work out for me. No. As I mentioned last week, we do though all have the same Well, we can't all have the same final four, can we? If you picked the third man over doublinity.

02:01:22
Speaker 1: No, I'm I think I'm out. I think I'm I'm just gonna go walk around the block twenty times.

02:01:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, something something must be off there. But the big difference, the big difference I know between our brackets is that I'm the only one that picked Cain to beat Casablanca. So that's what's going to decide it here. It will definitely be Sam or Mike taking it. I don't know if the point discrepancy is enough with you picking Casablanca to overtake me, but we will see if that's how it plays out, Cain Caine be Casablanca or not, and if Casablanca, the number one seed goes on to win. We have a few few rounds left right now. The final four polls are open. They close Monday, April twentieth at midnight Central time, and the new round will begin. The championship match Josh plus the the third place option will the third place matchup, I should say, will begin on Tuesday the twenty first at noon Central time. Film Spotting Madness dot Com is your hub for all of the madness, and that's where our madness this show will end.

02:02:32
Speaker 1: Josh. If you'd like to connect with the show on social media, you can find Adam and film Spotting on Instagram, Facebook, letterbox, and YouTube. At film Spotting, I'm at those places as well as Larsen on film. We are independently produced and listener supported. You can support the show by joining the film Spotting Family. At film spottingfamily dot com. You can listen early and ad free. You'll get monthly bonus episodes, that weekly newsletter, and access to the entire show archive. For show t shirts and other merch go to film spotting dot net, slash.

02:03:05
Speaker 2: Shop, out streaming or vod This weekend, Yes, you can see Balls Up, starring Mark Wahlberg and Paul Walter Hauser on Prime. You can see Sadie Sandler and Chloe East in Netflix's college set comedy Roommates in limited release, the new one from Francois Ozon. He adapts Albert Camus The Stranger Wide after going missing in the desert eight years earlier. A young girl returns in or as Lee Cronin's The Mummy. Lee Cronan directed twenty twenty three's Evil Dead Rise and We Have Bob Odenkirk is a small town sheriff who uncovers an international criminal conspiracy In Normal, directed by Ben Wheatley. Next week in your film Spotting feed you will find film Spotting SVU. On Wednesday you'll get our archive drop. Josh, we are going to do the A twenty four draft that we did back in twenty twenty two to celebrate the ten year anniversary of A twenty four. So some fun stuff to talk about there. We'll get into when we set up that draft, and then Friday will be Caine, the Casablanca and the Forties Madness Final.

02:04:19
Speaker 1: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe des So and Sam van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at WBEAZ Chicago. More information is available at wbeaz dot org for film Spotting.

02:04:36
Speaker 2: I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

02:04:39
Speaker 3: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

02:04:43
Speaker 2: Good Bye,