Kaitlyn Bristowe on the New Bachelor and Rewatching Her Season

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Speaker 1: What's up, Bachelor Happy our listeners, welcome back, And before we get into everything, because we have a lot to cover. Obviously, big things have happened, you know, since the last time we recorded, So we're going to get into all of that, but I just want to start off pop off this podcast by saying thank you all so much for the outpour of messages on our last episode. We can't tell you how much your insight means to us. We see you, we hear you, even if we're not responding to you. Last week was a very difficult conversation to have, especially when it's between two friends. You know, like it's one thing if I can, you know, just like tell you about yourself and I don't really know you like that or have a relationship with you, But it's very hard to have honest and open conversations when it's two friends talking to each other. But Becca and I really felt it was important to do because we felt it was necessary in spite of every in light of everything that's going on right now, and we just want to thank you so much for tuning in and for being receptive to what we both had to say. So today we're going to continue that conversation, but we're also going to continue it with a special guest, our good friend, Kaitlyn Bristow. Yes, Rage, So I am really excited to have Kaitlyn come on and to continue this discussion with us, because it can't just be a one and done thing. But before we get Hurt on the line chatting with us, I want to take a step back, jump back to last week's podcast for a minute, and like you said, it was a difficult conversation. It was a heavy conversation. It was uncomfortable, but because of that, it just shows the importance of it. And so I want to address some things because I feel like I did come up short on it and listening to it back, I felt that I definitely I want to express some things which I have, you know, my words here that I would like to say. But it's been sitting very heavy with me for this past weekend. And so if you don't mind, Rage, before we do get Kaitlyn on the line, and I want to share a few things clear the air and continue this conversation because, like I said, it can't just be a one and done thing. Yeah, the floor, thank you. So I have words here and I've i want to make sure I get all my points across. But I want to first start by saying, I need to take a moment to acknowledge a place in which I've done wrong and I realize where I can do much better. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that you can always learn and grow and move on from a place that you might not be okay with and comfortable with. And so after listening to myself back last week on the podcast, I feel like I didn't personally recognize myself, or maybe I did recognize a part of myself, and that's something I don't want to accept and be. It was hard for me to understand what I was even trying to say when discussing these difficult and important topics, and I doubt many of our listeners could understand too. And so I want to first start by saying, Rachel, I owe you an apology. I would like to first start there. And I fell short last week because this conversation and that conversation truly deserved my complete undivided attention. It deserved much more care and thoughtful thoughtfulness on my end, and you delivered all of that and more, and I did not. I was gutted to listen to it back and not to be able to express a deeper empathy with the struggles that you have lived for. And it's something that you've been fighting for and have been so vocal about within this franchise for years now, for three years, and I hear you when you say that things need to change. I agree with you, and you know, playing on top of Matt James now being announced our Bachelor, we still need to see more diversity. And I want to throw my voice behind yours to amplify that message and say, let it not stop there. We need to see not only leads of color, but contestants, people behind the scenes, people on the team, as the Bachelor franchise as a whole. And so I feel like when I was trying to state my points last week, I felt short and I didn't fully offer that support. And so I'm coming to you not only as a colleague, but much more importantly as a friend. And you have continuously and relentlessly fought for what is right. You have continually used your voice and asked for support in the lack of the diversity that's been seen within the franchise. You have constantly shown so much vulnerability and openness and passion. And I'm not only saying that for the podcast or during your time on the show, but really in all aspects of your life, and it goes far beyond that. And you have continuously been patient with me and with so many other people on social media, and I need to step that up. I believe we both went into last week's conversation wanting that to be open and wanting to have an honest discussion and for people to listen in and to be able to see two women come together of different races, different backgrounds to discuss our heavy issues at hand, and the most important one being that black lives do matter. We wanted that conversation to be impactful. We wanted it to be respectful, We wanted it to be uncomfortable, which it was, but ultimately we wanted that conversation to hopefully take a change in our listeners hearts. And so Rachel, you did succeed where I did not, and so from hopefully here on out, this invites our listeners to use us as an example to still continue to hopefully do this respectfully and intelligently, and for me to lead by example emitting when I have fallen short, which I have, and so I want to shed some light onto why I struggled so much last week. Besides the fact that we're coming out of the pandemic and we're in the midst of this modern day civil rights movement, I was back in Minneapolis dealing with the loss of my grandfather, and during this time I'd also received some other bits of despairing news and loss. During this time that the world was also mourning, and it was also when we recorded the podcast. It was also eighteen hours after Garrett's social media post, and so I was dealing with trying to first wrap my head around that, and also dealing with discord within my really relationship and what it was causing between my family, and so in that moment, it felt like the reservoir in my brain had reached a maximum, and as a human being, I couldn't process everything at once. I don't want this to be an excuse to justify my behavior in any way, shape or form, but rather to give some context as to help me explain the external things contributing to my response. I simply hope that you know I'm a human being. We're all humans, we all have parts of us that fuck up a lot sometimes, and I did that. I don't always know what to say. I don't always have the right words or an answer, and that was very apparent last week in our conversation. And upon realizing that and listening to a back and grasping that a little bit more, I also want to embrace the capacity and drive for change in myself. And so I've talked a lot with others this past week, with friends and family and even strangers alike, about intention And I never really put much thought into that word before this past week, but I'm realizing the impact or how intention can have such a lasting impact. And though my intention was never to cause divide on this platform or podcast or on my individual platforms, that is exactly what happened. And I thought, even though I was going into it with the best intention, everything thereafter was lacking because it didn't leave an impact, or it left an impact that was very lacking and very muted. And so I saw clearly that because of that, I had been exercising a privilege and I need to in the mirror to see where I can change. And so, after doing a lot of quote unquote soul searching this week, I hate that term, but soul searching. One thing that I had to come to terms with is that prior to the protest beginning a couple of weeks ago, I didn't take enough time or care in my days to really read up on things and to read deeper into things. Uh. You know, sure, I watched the news. I knew enough to keep up with the current events. At a very base level. I would subscribe to this game in like New York Times and read headlines, see what was going on through Instagram in the world of social media, But I didn't proactively go out of my way to add to my knowledge bank and to really research beyond just headlines. And so because I wasn't proactively seeking out as many topics like I am now, I didn't educate myself as well as I could have. And before last week, you know, I wasn't researching the differences between like what defunding and disbanding the police meant. I wasn't quite sure what terms like white complacencyment, what air assure meant, what microaggression were. And so it's starting somewhere and starting to realize, like where I can take my level of knowledge and grow from that and continue, I didn't dig as deep into our country's history to realize how it is all trickled down into our current criminalization system, into our current prison system, even watching thirteen, which was so eye opening. It trickles into everything, and you can't know how it affects everything unless you take the time in the care to really read up and to educate yourself and know our country's history and why things are the way that they are. And so if our conversation hadn't taken place last week, Rachel, I probably wouldn't have realized how deep systematic this is. The thing systemic I even like, fuck up on that. A lot of people don't know the difference between systematic and systemic is that's not that far off. But yeah, But even in the conversation that we had last week, listening even that word, I'm like hitting myself on the head of why can't I say things correctly? But I may not have realized how deeply issues of systemic racism have trickled down into literally literally every aspect of our country, everything from sports to education, to the prison systems to books that are being written and read, and so it goes into everything, and to put it short, I knew the basics of what was happening, but not the why behind it. And so now that I'm learning more, I'm seeing more, and from there I can say like I will do more to keep growing and building upon that and to recognizing all things. And so all I can do is continue to lead with positive intent, take action, and create an impact. Something that really hindered me last week in our conversation is that I was trying to speak for others and that's simply not my place. I can't do that. I cannot speak for Garrett, I cannot speak for the white community as a whole. I can only speak for myself because if I don't do that, it's not genuine. And so moving forward, I'm only going to speak for myself from here on out. And one last thing that I want to say to our listeners out there, because I'm sure many will hear this back and wonder and ask and have opinions. But for those who are curious about my relationship with Garrett at this point, all I can say right now is that I don't know. I can't give anything more than that. It's something that we are trying to work through and discuss and do work on at home at this time, and that's where the work will remain. And that's really the best I can give you at this point. But I wanted to share this. I know I've been rambling for a bit, but to give a little bit more context and to give you Rachel my apology and to really throw my voice and hat in the ring to say things need to change within the franchise and within myself as well well. Becca. First of all, you're not rambling. Everything that you said was impactful, it was intentional, and it had weight. And I thank you for your apology, and I thank you for saying that because I mean, you didn't have to do it, and you did. And I think that you know, when you put yourself out there, we open ourselves up to so many people having opinions and so many people telling you what you should do and how you should be. And I'm glad that you just took the time to figure it out for yourself, and then you know, you fully explain exactly what it is that you're going through, what you're struggling with, what you're working on, and how you want to be better As a friend. That's all I can ask for and I know a lot of people had their opinions about, like I said, what we should do, but what I really wanted this to be as an example of two friends who maybe have different perspectives, maybe have different backgrounds, upbringings, maybe didn't see things in the same way. But the fact is is that when you have someone who's willing to learn, then as a friend, as a friend who's willing to learn, how as a friend can I not be willing to help out and be there for you? Now, Garrett, that's a different situations. I don't folk with Garrett, I don't need to, but you and I have a different relationship, and so I appreciate everything that you said. I feel like it's my duty as a friend to be there for you because you know you're admitting when you're wrong, and you're saying that you want to be better and do better. How is a friend can I not accept that and help you through that. That's what friendships are about. You don't neglect somebody when something bad happens. It's different if you were ignorant and you want it to stay in that place. That is not what you're bringing to the table. And I just hope that everybody who's listening to this, that you might have a friend who doesn't get it. You might have a friend who really might be clueless to it for whatever reason, even if it is ignorance or they're choosing not to But before you give up on a friendship, really try to see if that person's willing to learn, willing to change, willing to grow, because it might be reverse where I might be in the situation and I need something from you, Becca, where I'm ignorant to it because I don't see it because it doesn't directly affect me. And I think the worst thing that I could do as a friend is maybe you were ignorant to something but you want to know, but I close the door on you and push you back into a place of ignorance. That's not what we should be doing right now, Black people. You may be exhausted and tired of having these conversations and having to educate, and it might be frustrating that people don't understand what they should get. But the fact is, if somebody's heart is open and they're willing to make amends and to understand and to grow, then it is our responsibility, I feel, to help that person and I don't mean helping means you have to be their educator. It might be like, girl, here's a list of books, go read them. This is a great documentary to check out. When you're done, let's discuss. Let's have an open conversation about it, you know, like now you and I talk about thirteen. So I just I'm so happy about what you said. I'm so thankful that you said it, and I'm thankful for the friendship that we have. And I really hope it's an example to our listeners. I really don't have anything to say about that, Oh well, said Rache. Okay, so it is Friday one o'clock right now, June twelfth, twenty twenty, Friday, one o'clock. This is coming out on Tuesday, as we know, because that's when we normally release our podcast. But we obviously have to talk about the elephant in the room here because on June twelfth, at the beginning, if you if I don't know where you are at this point in life, but you have to know at this point that there is a black bachelor. And if you were like me and a lot of other people, on June twelfth, you woke up to a shlew of text messages, tweets, instagram messages, whatever, letting you know that there is a black Bachelor, so we have to talk about it. I have a lot of thoughts that I don't even really want to get into all of them now, But Becca, I will ask you, what was your reaction when you found out that we had our first black Bachelor. Well, quite honestly, when I woke up this morning, I was completely shocked because usually they don't announce the Bachelor until closer to the season, and let's be honest, we still have a full Bachelorte season to still film and air. So completely shocked in that regard, and I posted it on my Instagram. I think it's step one. I think that thank god, finally the franchise is recognizing and hearing what you and other people have been saying for so long. It's step one. But also two, and I said this with Caitlin, like, there's still the petition out there to not only have more people of color as leads, but also as contestants behind the camera, behind the scenes, on the team, in all facets of the Bachelor franchise. So where this is a step in the right direction, I don't want this momentum to stop. I do want to keep seeing this and it just needs to be now a constant like this needs to be the level and growing from that. We can't go back to, you know, having Matt James as the lead and then kind of you know and being like, oh, well we covered that for one season. Now, let's go back to doing what we've always been doing. Yeah, I mean, Becca, I agree with you. There's honestly not a lot I would even add to that, you know, I do want to say that I am happy that we have a black Bachelor. I'm happy for Matt James. I'm excited to see it. I'm definitely going to support him because why would I not, you know, why would I not lend a hand and really offer what knowledge I do have from coming through this franchise to Matt James, Like I would be the biggest hypocrite in the world to do that. What I will say is that I don't agree with the timing of it. I think that it is a bit distracting and makes people question the timing of the announcement rather than solely focusing on the fact that we finally have a black Bachelor and who he is. I also have to say I didn't really like the rollout of it all. I feel like, you know, what we saw on Good Morning America only gave us a glimpse as to who Matt James really is, and it almost kind of felt like this is all they wanted us to know about him. You know, the casual watcher who watches this show only knows what they saw of Matt James on Good Morning America unless they take the extra effort to go google him or follow him on social media and do a deep dive. And all we saw on television is that he's a black man. He has a white mother, so he's bi racial, and he's affiliated with the two most popular people in batter Nation who were white, And I feel like that's all they wanted us to know, and I just felt it was a bit distracting. I know there's a reason that they wanted Matt James to be the first and I know that there's more to him, and I know that there's some depth there, but we didn't get to see it, and I just didn't like that for him, and I just didn't necessarily think that was fair all that to say, you know, not just me, other contestants of color, other contestants and leads in this franchise, and even an entire petition that was created by fans who want to see diversity in this franchise have all been really vocal in pushing for change, and so I am happy to see that this is a step in the right direction for change. There were a list, a laundry list of things that the petition said that it wanted, and I mentioned in my blog that I wanted as well, and I'm happy to say that one of them was having a lead of color, and we can check that off the list. And another was to get an official statement from the franchise, which we did, and to me, that speaks volumes. I was excited to see that if there was a statement, I wanted acknowledgement. I wanted recognition that things had not been done right in the past, and I wanted a vow to say we're going to make changes in the future to address the diversity issues, and we're going to make those internally and also with the contestants that come on this show. That's to me, speaks louder than having a black bachelor, because I feel like we were going to get that anyway in season twenty five, but just to recognize that there have been these problematic issues, to make a promise that you're going to be active in making that change makes me as a person of color, and I'm sure all the other contestants of color Phil included. So I'm very grateful to see that that was done, and I'm excited to keep checking things off the list. I playing into how you say it feels rushed. I mean and in the past, Let's be honest, any other time anyone has ever been announced, you kind of know it's coming there. They'll be hints. They'll be like a big announcement coming soon, tune in tomorrow or whatever it might be. In in in this case, that's why when I say I woke up shocked, it's like I was. There was no sprinklings of an announcement coming, And so yeah, I think it'll be interesting. I think about like when we were watching Into Your Heart and I went into that, and the reason why I went into that show fairly excited is that I personally had no idea really what to expect other than it was going to be a music show. And so it'll be interesting to see how that sentiment plays with Matt James when people, as you said, don't really know him. They haven't seen him on the screen before, so you have no idea. I hope people will be receptive to still being open. You know, you don't always need to know everything about someone to hopefully like them on your screen and support him. I think only time will tell when we start to get a sense of who he is, who he is as a person. It's definitely going to be I mean from any other season we've seen. We simply do not know what to expect. Let me tell you something. This is why you need people of color on the inside because that rollout, if I had been a consultant, would not have been how I would have introduced him to the world. This is what I'm trying to say. That's why you need a structural change from within justice for Matt James, because he should not be happy with how he was introduced to the world, and I truly hope that the franchise does better. This is what I'm saying. This is why you can't slap a band aid on this and say, look, we gave you a black bachelor. When you rip that band aid off and it's totally infected. Underneath, there's a wound, there's an open womb, and it needs to heal, and it needs to be fixed, and you need to take the time and effort to mend it. They haven't done that at this point, and that is so evident to me by how we met this man. So for his sake, I really hope that you do better the next time we meet him. I want to know who he is, because what has been told to us is the reason we haven't had a person of color is because it has to be the right person. It doesn't matter the color of their skin. We just need the right person. Okay, well, then why the hell was Matt James the right person? Did y'all break the rules for him? Is it because he is popular friends? Because that's the only thing that I've seen at this point. I'm sure there more to him, which is why I say if I were him, I'd be upset. They need to show another side of him. Who is he? I have a question and playing into when you say you know, all we really know of him is that he's friends with Hannah and Tyler. Obviously Hannah and Tyler just based upon Instagram for instance, have a huge, huge following, and let me try to explain or ask us the best way. So you know, when we discussed last week on you or on the podcast about your season, you had mentioned the ratings were low. Do you think this is a way for them to kind of say, oh, well, he already has a following. He already as two influential people with a huge following, so maybe this will help boost the ratings in some way. Do you think they were coming at it in that regard? I think that I think Matt James is an extremely safe choice, not because you know who he is, because he's already comes in with a following and attached to two of the most popular people social media wise, at least in the franchise. It's a it's a very safe choice. To me. Oh, I had another point about why it was a safe choice, but I forgot it. Dare we request? I mean, well, we don't know anything about him. Could we potentially get him on our podcast to get to know him and to ask him how he feels about this? That's what I was gonna say. Also, I'm gonna tell you also why he's a safe choice. When Hannah Brown set the inn word and I did a video holding her accountable and saying how it feels. I would also like to say that Hannah Brown has apologized to me, and you know, like there's no there's no ill feelings towards her, and she doesn't have any towards me. But I'm just like making a point here. When Hannah Brown said the N word and all that happened, and I made my video, do you know what her fan said to me? Why can't you be more like Matt James. Matt James hasn't called Hannah out. James hasn't said anything. If Matt James thinks it's okay, why are you speaking out? That's a problem that is extremely problematic that they felt he was okay with it by his silence. And I'm telling you, and I don't know if Matt James is going to hear this or not. We are in a different time right now, and it is one thing to be the first black lead and deal with pressures with that, you are also going to have pressures for what is happening right now in our society. And if you have a group of white people who think that you don't speak out about things that are done towards black people, or you make them feel comfortable because you don't ruffle any feathers. That's a problem. And the fact that what I did, holding her accountable was wrong, but his silence made it okay is also another problem. So I lied. I actually do know something else about him, because I cannot tell you how many people came to me and asked me, as one black person, why can't you be more like that black person? That's an ablem Yes, and I agree. I no one should ever be compared to someone else. You know, we all have our points of view, we all have our opinions, our ways of handling things, But that's not a fair statement or judgment to put on someone else to say, well, if he's okay with it, why aren't you, Because that's not how life works. That should make him upset. And he doesn't know this. So I'm not like saying he heard it and it was fine. I'm just saying you need to understand that people have that perception of you, and in our current climate, you're almost going to be feel the pressure to speak out, not be political, because he shouldn't be, and no lead should. That's not what this is about. But almost more to speak out to represent who you are as a black man, which is what I also would have appreciated. What is your experience like as a black man? You know, we're hearing all these experiences. What is it like for you? But I guess what's also just so hard? And I said I wasn't gonna say anything, and here I am ten minutes later, You're still talking about the shit. So obviously I do feel some kind of way. I think. What is so disheartening to me though, about the timing of this announcement. It's two things. One, it shows me how easy it was for you to make this happen because you rushed this announcement like you. You could have waited. You could have not put him on Clare season. You could have put out a statement that said, we hear you, we are actually making changes and we're putting things in the work, and then announced him at a closer time to win that season's going to start. You announced right now in response to exactly what is happening. There no if ants or butts about it. You don't have to be a genius to figure that out. What bothers me is that it was so easy for you to make that announcement. It was quick, it was fast, you put it together. Two that what took you to finally make that announcement and be rushed to make that announcement is that a black man died in the most gruesome public way and set the country on fire about the racial issues that exist within it. And then your response to that is to give us a black bachelor because of the tragedy that happened it. I hate that. I hate that, I really do. And if you were already working on this or whatever, then just wait to announce it. But you to announce it. We're watching all these organizations and how they're responding to what is happening in our country, and we're seeing Confederate flags be ripped down and people get canceled from shows and TV shows and all this stuff. Your response is, here's your black bachelor. I don't like it, and now I'm done. Yeah, and I totally hear you. I think something that I've learned a lot and tried to reflect on and that I really want to hold at the forefront of my mind in anything moving forward in life is to be much more thoughtful about everything. You know what I'm saying, what I'm putting out for the world to see in my actions and so playing into that. It feels like because it was rushed, there wasn't as much thought put behind him, much thought put behind like having the world see who he is. And so I hear you in that regard. Yeah, yeah, well we'll see. There's still time to make some changes. But you gotta come quick with it. You gotta come quick with it. But if we did have the opportunity to have him on, what would you say to that? Oh, I more than welcome him to come on the show. I got a lot of questions. I have a lot of questions. Just because I don't know Matt James doesn't mean I haven't heard a lot of stuff about him. So I got a lot of questions to ask. Cuff cuff, everyone seeing behind the scenes, let's make this happen. Speaking of friends, it's friendship. Friend Have you ever if you want, I'm a big I love Lucy fan. Put collect things. I'm a big fan, Are you really? Because I think I used to have like a media teacher back in the day who was obsessed with I love Lusten too. I've seen them all. I know a song I was singing as a song that Lucy and Ethel sang, but then they end up wearing the same dress and they just like rip it apart on stage. That's not us, Becca, We're just singing the song Friendship, Friendship. But I'm using that as an introduction for another person who's our friend, our sister, who I want to bring in. Because if you've been keeping up with Bachelor Nation and you know the recap of Caitlin season it just aired last night on ABC. We both love Caitlin. We have a relationship with her outside of this show, outside of Bachelorettes, and she's just an overall lovely person. And watching her season last night, I know one thing that really drew me in is her honesty, her openness when it just came to talking about being a woman in her sexuality, and honestly, up until her season, it was something that we really didn't see on The Bachelor. It was a little taboo to talk about. So I've always respected her for just who she is and being unapologetically herself. She's one of those people who's always willing to push the boundaries. A girl after my own heart. She talks about the subjects that just aren't the easiest to talk about, but it is who she is, and let's be honest, she's a trailblazer, Like she paved the way for us to talk about a windmill and sex, and for the Bachelor franchise to recreate the windmill that was sexualized for people to go and have an open tour it. I mean, who would have known that would have happened after Caitlyn's season. So with that said, I'm just really excited to have her on and here not only what she has to say about her experience as a bachelrette, but just also her take on everything that's going on right now in the world and what she's learned from it. All right, everyone, Well we have Caitlin with us, and Caitlin, we're so excited to have you today to catch up on everything. Obviously, we've rewatched your season, and before we get into it, I just want to say this. You know, watching your season a few years ago, it was obviously so entertyn you just owned who you are. But one thing that I've wanted since then is like a compilation of your laugh. Has anyone ever told you that before? Like my laugh it's so outrageous, but it's so funny. It's like, you know how they do the bloopers at the end of every season. Like, I just want a compilation of Caitlin's cackles for like three minutes three minutes a minute a fan if I can pop laughing and like send it to you in a voice note and you can use it as your alarm clock and then you can just wake up laughing every day. Just about it, Ben, please do Oh my god, I would share it with the world. Actually, I think I think I'm not the only one who would want that. A guy to laugh is part of someone's charm. I really feel I feel that. Yeah, that's a big compliment. Okay, you got it. You got it, Caitlin. I'm like a very heavy man when I laugh. But that's okay. It's from It's from a right from the belly, and I mean it. You feel it exactly, and I think we feel it too, as as the listeners who hear it. But one thing that well, first, I want to start out, I just need to ask how you're doing. How is it watching everything back? You've been doing so much in these past five years, I mean your world has changed like crazy, so overall, how have you been doing. I mean, overall, like no complaints. The watching back has been a little bit of a rollercoaster because I have this mindset of being so grateful, and when I first came off the show, I was just in a weird funk of being like depressed, happy in love, going through hard times Matt at the franchise, but so grateful for the opportunity that I was just like a mess. Now five years later, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so lucky to have had that. I love everybody there. I'm just like in a different place in life because so much has happened that watching back is like bittersweet. It's obviously hard because I'm reliving relationship chips and things that I went through during the show that we're really heavy, and then reliving something of a relationship where I got engaged at the end of it and it didn't work out is always like a weird thing to relive. So I'm just trying to stay positive and again grateful for everything, because I wouldn't be where I am now without it. Than you got It was only three hours, so you know what I mean, you know, like you thank goodness, it's just you don't have to relive everything. It's like, oh, it's just a three hour season. Yeah, but the stuff that I don't want to relive is three So I was gonna ask, did you feel like you had to fast forward through some of those parts or like turn it off or be like Jason, like let's go in the kitchen for a hot second. Yeah, there are times I had to step away and come back because there's so many fun moments too, and there's so many memories, and then there's so many heavy emotional memories that just puts me right back into that moment. And yeah, a few a few breaks. I have to ask, maybe you've talked about this before, but did has Jason ever seen your full season? No? He hasn't. His mom has, which I don't know which one is worth. She still loves you though, she does, and she's so so she's actually been so cute and supportive during this, being like, you know, it is what it is and it happened, it was so long ago and you're here now and all these days that she's so sweet. But no, he's never watched. And he's funny because he goes back and forth because he's, you know, such a confident person as you know, and so happy, go lucky. And at the same time, it's like, who in the right mind would want to watch, you know, their girlfriend make out with a bunch of different dudes and you know, be intimate. That's not something. But he's also like, you know, this is great and it's gonna be good for you, and you know this is it's just reliving and we wouldn't have what we have now without it. So he's mister positive and that helps. Yeah, do you ever have the conversation of what it would have been like if he was on your season? Yeah, I've thought about that and talked to me about that, because you know how you go through different phases in life where you kind of accept the love you think you deserve and you grow and evolve, and that's why some people go through different relationships and I've learned from each one. I don't know if I would have been in the position to accept the kind of love that he gives at that point in my life and at the and this is nothing against Sehn, but we were both kind of insecure and had some demons that we both were working through, and it was exactly you know what I needed at that time and now from the three and a half year engagement and you know, therapy and life, I've just involved so much and that now I was in a place when John and I broke up, I was like, I know what I deserve and I know what I'm looking for, and I know that it's like that kind of love that you see on TV, almost like where you're like, I can't believe he treats me this way. I knew I deserved that. And then that's when he magically appeared on my podcast, Thank you, Beckay. I will always you know, O God about that. I really didn't put that together until now. Wow. And I will say, I mean, obviously I do not know Jason as well as you, but from the time I did spend with him on my season, like, he just is so full of life and you are too, and so for two people who are so evenly matched to find each other, I mean, it sounds so cliche. I hate saying this every time I do, but I truly think that everything happens for a reason, when it happens for a reason, when it's supposed to. And so I mean, you guys are like a match made in heaven. If I see if I watch anything back from you guys on social media. It's a good fit. It is a good thank you. Yeah, I agree with you. One of the things I want to ask you about is I didn't watch your season prior to this. And you know this, this is no secret, but you know, as you get a part of the journey, whether it's through the Bachelor or as the lead, you start to learn so much about different seasons and about different people within the franchise. It's like, you know, in your downtime you're talking to producers about certain people, and You're somebody that would always come up. And what I would always hear is how producers and just other people talking about you, like the other girls who have seen the show, would commend you about the way you handled your season and how you openly would address sexuality and just being a strong woman and embracing that. Why when you were going through your season, or maybe you just didn't realize it. It's just who you are or who you are, But why did you feel it was so important for you to talk about that. Yeah, it's so funny to me because I think back on that time and during it, I remember being confused. Why it was such a big deal. Why it was like so frowned upon or like celebrated by different people, but mostly frowned upon in that time. I was so confused because, you know, you you surround yourself with people that love you your whole life and who encourage you, and just as long as you're like, you know, happy, doing the right thing, they support you no matter what. That's who you choose to surround yourself with. You would never choose to surround yourself with people that don't agree with you, don't don't like you, you know. And then you go on a national television show and you're opening up your world to so many people who can either love or hate you, and you're so used to the support system your whole life. Then overnight you've got you know whoever I think they're calling them parens in you know, saying yes they are, yeah, Karen saying like how dare you? You are a terrible role model for my daughter and blah blah blah, And I was like, whoa, what this is who I am in a relationship? To me? If I'm picking a husband, you damn right, I'm going to have sex with them, like especially if it gets to that point where I'm like, I've met your family, you know, and it didn't make sense to me why you would be a friend, why it would be friend upon it either way if you're a virgin, I didn't understand if people would, you know, criticize you for that if you're having sex. And oh no, it was before the fantasy suite, because that's where we draw the line. Apparently, It's like these people have so many opinions, and it just confused me because I wasn't used to feeling shame around my decisions in a relationship, so it did confuse me. And then I just saw the amount of women that came forward saying thank you, and that meant more to me than you know, these people who didn't understand me. So I just was like, Wow, I see the power in my voice and using it and standing up for who I am. And that's somebody that I've always tried to be is just authentic. And I just knew I would lose myself if I tried to people please and it's just not who I am. So I just I had to have the mindset that, like people are gonna hate me, buy food to myself longevity success will come, whether that's relationships, brand deals, different opportunities like no matter what it is, if you're if you're just who you are, you'll have better success in life and they're common for you. You're getting no it paid off. Yeah, I'm feeling good, which I know Rachel, what you're hinting that. I want to get into that. But before that, because you talk about you know, owning who you are, standing your ground, you know, doing what you know in your heart is right for you. And so with that, you know, of course it's all about honesty. And in this same age when we're seeing so many things take place in our world and so much divide and you know, playing into the whole topic of sexuality and knowing who you are and standing up for that, there's harder topics that need to be talked about that we're seeing. You know, you've talked about everything going on with this modern day civil rights movement on your podcasts and Instagram, and so we want to know from you and your take, what has it like been having these uncomfortable conversations I'm sure you know, in private with your family, with your friends, with the world on Instagram and your podcast what has that been like for you personally, well again, and I will give my family credit for this too, is that I've always been able to talk to them about anything, and we have had conversations about race growing up, and I have just been I mean, I will not take anything away from this. Of course, I'm able to step back and educate myself and learn and listen and take a few days. And that's how I know I'm privileged because I can do that. It's not something I've had to think about every day, but it's something that I have been I think aware of my whole life. It's just that's not enough, right, That's not enough to just be aware. And so it was really hard for myself to zoom out and look in and say I've been part of the problem, because it's hard for me to even say that out loud, because I don't want I would never think of myself as part of the problem. But of course I am. We all have been, and it's just we as white people, have not been conditioned to talk about race, especially not this much. And I think for my for me personally, I am loving these conversations. I'm loving learning, I'm loving listening to Your Guys podcast that you talked about it. I'm I'm I'm feeling privileged to learn and I know it's too late, but is it ever too late. I'm just I'm just grateful for the conversations that we're having, even if they are uncomfortable, Like even right now, it's like you don't want to say the wrong thing and you don't want to like come across a certain way, But that's okay if you do. You know, I'm not a bad person. I just I just want to be open to having any kind of conversation, especially having a voice in a platform that I do that's important to me. I've been so behind women's rights, I've been so such an advocate for women empowerment, and I've seen so much growth on that side of things that I'm like, great, I can now use my platform for this as well. And again, I just feel very grateful to have a voice. And I have been doing a lot of educating myself because I do believe I have been part of the problem. You know, Beckham Martinez said that it's the only thing if you're because you brought up a point about, you know, people being scared to say something, and I do understand. I understand and the thought of, you know, somebody, some people will jump down your throat for saying the wrong thing, and there are other people who are a little bit more patient. Mega Martina said, if the only thing that you have to worry about is what people are going to think based on what you say, that is privilege. And I thought that that was so powerful when she said it, because it's so true, like that's all you have to worry about is saying the wrong thing as opposed to living it. What I you also brought up like really really good points because one thing I noticed, and I think that this is just human nature. You're affected by the things that directly affect you, right Like I am black, so I am affected heavily by what's happened, what's been happening in our country, and what's currently happening. But I might not be as outspoken on immigration issues because that doesn't directly impact me. And I think it's It doesn't mean that I don't care about it, that I don't believe in fighting, you know, for those rights, it's just it doesn't I don't see it every day. I don't feel it or experience it every day. So when we talk about your season, and we talk about what you were passionate about fighting for being a woman in your sexuality, that is because you were directly affected by it. And then you spoke out just now about how you feel about Black Lives Matter and these conversations we're having about race. But one key thing in what you were saying is we're having these conversations and we're educating ourselves and we're learning. How important vote is it to take action? Because awareness and learning is the first step. But then you know, it's trendy right now, and at some point it's it already is it's dissipating a little bit, So what can How important is it for you to act on the things that you're learning? Yeah, it's it's action and having impact, right, So I totally understand what you're saying with like it being this trend on social media. That's what something I said to Taylor Nolan is I'm like, that's what I don't want it to be. Right. It's great that that's, you know, in the forefront of everybody's mind right now and we're being aware, but that can't we can't go back now work here, and it's only it's a it's it's a shift in everybody that you have to put into action. And I've had you know, conversations with the DO team and Spade and Sparrow's about, you know, making the team more diverse, the models, the black models. Yes, absolutely, And you know you said because because it is impacting you right now, and we speak out on things that impact us. And I know there are you know, people that could say, well, we've never seen an Asian lead and that too, and so I appreciate you saying that it's you know, it's impacting you and you're speaking out on it, and we all should speak out on things that we're passionate about, especially that directly impact us. But saying like I have, I have diversity in my teams and in my models, but I am, you know, now taking that next step to kind of like how they just announced the first black back. People will you know, say well why now? Why not now? And And that's you know what we're doing moving forward with all of my teams and having more diversity on the podcast, and you know, moving forward, it's just something that we're really going to focus on because I don't want to go backwards. I'm like, you know, I want foot foot on the gas, like let's go this is this is um. It's been a movement right for how long? But now it's like, we can't go backwards? Yeah, I think I think what's key is what you and what you said is is that you're not just trying to put a black model or a person of color. It's about making internal changes. And I think that that's key for everybody to realize it's not just about doing something that's a symbol of it. It's about taking a look within and fixing what the problem is so that on the outside then it exudes from within and your your changes are shown and they're genuine. Yes, And I like how you said you we can't go back and let's be honest, like seeing everything take place in our country. I hope that. I mean, I'm alongside you, Caitlin where I am digging deeper and trying to educate myself more and grow from that and you know, take action and hopefully have a positive impact. And it's like Rich, I think you said this on the podcast. You either said it on the podcast or when we were talking. It's like when you know, you know, and you can grow from there and do better, and you don't want to go back. You don't want to go back to the way if things were easier for you or more simple for you because you didn't have to have as much of a voice and as much of a say. And for me internally, it's like, once I feel like I am learning more and seeing more and educating myself and kind of my brain is trying to soak up everything that's been taking place in our country at such a deep level, it's like that wasn't good, Like for me now that I know, it's like, why would I ever want to go back to that? And so I think it's good to hear from you two to get that point of view, and I hope our listeners too, you know, hopefully we're all learning and growing. Hopefully. It's not okay for anyone to sit back and say, oh, you know, like like this is trendy, it's going to go away. But once you see something you can move forward and have that action and have that impact. Whether the world is going to see it or not, you still have to move forward internally and know that you're doing hopefully the right thing. Yeah, it's just something that has to be consistent now till the end of time. That's just it's just what it has to be. And I hope listeners hold me accountable and I hope we all have the conversations that continue to make us grow. And I just like I think about, you know, how many people fall us and listen, and we are we are lucky to have a voice and to be a part of a change, you know, And it's just it's unfortunate that it has taken this long. And again I will say that I have been part of the problem just by not knowing all this before, you know, not doing the search in the education before, you know, like Rachel, I was listening to you talk about you know, that's great, that's a step that but like again, we need to see that continue. This can't just be you know, grand gesture in the time. It has to be yes, okay, great, move forward now, and like you said, find people that have had that relationship before, not just girls that are experiencing a relationship for the first time on national television. In that way, you know, like it's find the right people. And like you said, it's tough. It is a business, but this is where things have to change and it can be a very big impact with having the Bachelor be a part of this movement, and I think as long as it is and it isn't just you know, look we did it, then that's they can be part of the change. Yeah. Yeah, And I think going into you know, I'm sure we've all seen on Instagram to petition that was started to have more diversity, to have a lead of color, but it playing into that, it goes beyond that. Now it's have more contestants who are yeah, the people behind the camera and even I'm thinking there's so many offshoots to what the Bachelor and Bachelor is. Obviously you have the offshoots with Bachelor in Paradise and we've seen in the past Winter Games and now listen to your Heart. But I'm thinking, like, what's part of my life, which is the Bachelor live on Stage two? And when we did that for the short amount of time that it ran this year, for the most part it the majority was people who looked like me and you, Caitlin it and so even within that, it's like, how in all these facets of Bachelor Nation, in the Bachelor franchise, where can this now trickle down to and be a lasting just keep it lasting. Don't don't just say Okay, we're gonna have Matt James the next Bachelor and then after that season kind of go back to the way things were, like how they were after your season, Rachel. It's you have to keep the momentum going and keep it at a consistent level. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah, No, I mean we shall see. I got my opinions on that, like and how you say it's moving forward and like how it will continue to be important to me. I really listen to what you said about who are you aligned with? Right, like who are you affiliated with? Who are you aligned with? And that's something that I sat back and said, that's someday and I need to look at and think about moving forward to. And I really liked that. No, well, thank you. I mean it's I and I did it. That's why I decided to. I've been speaking out, but speak out in a deeper way because of what I'm connected to. And we all should do that, no matter what the color of your skin is. I think it's just a life lesson. And it started with the pandemic and quarantine. I mean we were all like what matters in life? And then now you have the Black Lives Matter movement and you're like, okay, even more. I mean, twenty twenty is one. I can't wait to see how they write about this in history. Right now. I keep forgetting that there's still COVID nineteen in the world. There's still in June. We are halfway through this year, you guys, and we touched on in The Black Bachelor. But and that is, in my opinion, a reaction to what is happening in society, and there's a lot of that going around. We're seeing a lot of reactions to what has happened this societal pressure from the Black Lives Matter movement where you're either on the wrong side or the right side. And similar to the Me Too movement and how things were sweeping across the industry. I hate cancel culture, but I'm going to go ahead and use that phrase because we are seeing a lot of things get canceled in light of this current movement. Like we did with Me Too, if you had any type of history related to sexual harassment, sexual misconduct, sexual assault, you were canceled. That's what's happening right now with racism. And it isn't just black people, it's just people of color. Like people are getting losing their job. Shows aren't streaming, movies aren't streaming my favorite show, one of my favorite shows, And I'm using past tense now at the is Vander pump Roles. I don't know if we all watch the show, but we in light of what has happened, we have seen four people get fired, four cast members, two of which have been there from the beginning. We're talking eight seasons in I think it's eight seasons got fired from the show based on a despicable act against another cast member who was a black female. How do you feel about everything that's going on as far as the cancel culture in response to racism in America? Do you feel like it's a bit much? Do you believe in it? Do you? Or do you think that there's some other solution that can be done. Well, it's hard because it's hard to say one I agree with you on the cancel thing. I hate saying that too. You have to accept it's a thing. I can't say I disagree with it because when I see, like when when these things come to light, I'm like, yeah, like get rid of them and teach them a lesson. But I also think of like you know, when somebody said something ten years ago, I'm like, shame on them, of course, and like, yes, they should get fired from certain jobs. And but there's you grow so much as a person and you can, you know, make so such a change moving forward and from learning a hard lesson that it's hard to look back on people who make mistakes so many years ago. But at the same time I agree with it. Like I'm like, you know, when I when I read that vander Pump stuff, I was like disguised. I was like, yeah, like get out of here. And you know, I've unfollowed a lot of people on Instagram due to certain situations like where things come to light, and I'm like, I don't want to be aligned with that. Oh I get it, But I also am like, man, I've said some dumb stuff ten years ago and grown so much as a person that I mean not anything that I should be worried about like that, but you know, like I just hope they are able to grow from it and like move forward without do you know what I'm trying to say? Yeah, no, I think no. And I For example, there were two cast members that were involved in like a despicable act against a person of color, and then there were two other cast members they got fired for as tweets that some were seven years ago. I think that's what you're saying in regards to that. It's like, okay, you set you how old were you seven years ago? Not that it's okay, but it might have been a dumb teenage mistake that was made, as opposed to the Saci and Kristen thing, where you purposely knew what you were doing, you bragged about it in a public way. And there's such a contentious relationship between black people people and the police. It's just the fact that you call it to cops on your black cast member. It's just it's so disgusting. So I think that there are levels to it. I understand what you're saying, but I agree with you and this. You know, I don't think that you should just cancel everybody, but there has to be if there's good reason for it, let it go, move it. Let's not perpetuate this thinking moving forward into twenty twenty. Let's cancel it. Yes, because no one said this and I will never forget. She said, it's not rocket science, like to align yourself with the right people to not be racist. To go forward. You know, it's not rocket science, right exactly, It's it's just not that's why. It's like, it's just about being a good, a decent human right. And that's why I heard someone say this it's a heart issue. It's it's you wanting and wanting to be willing to be on the right side of this. It's really that simple, you know. It really is one thing since we're talking about this, because I have a question too, because I want to hear your points of view. And this has nothing to do with reality TV. But I was listening to a podcast last night and I think it was with best Buy. But best Buy was going through and now firing some of their employees for like tweets and posts that their family members had posted out that and I don't know what they included. I'm you know, I'm assuming they had parts of racist comments. I don't know enough about it. But I'm listening to this podcast and it's it was very divided. Someone's like, well, you shouldn't be held accountable for what your family is doing, but also playing into you know, you still are aligned with these people in some way, and yes, at times we can't always pick our family but what are your thoughts on that? Cool? I think it depends who the family member is. Yeah, it would depend on who that was. If that was my mom, I feel like, first of all, I'll never happened, but hypothetical if she was, I just don't think i'd have a good relationship with my mom anyways if she was tweeting these kinds of things. So, I don't know. That's so hard to answer. Yeah, like it depends. That's why. I mean, you're not responsible for something, you know, to be fired from your job. I just that's really hard for me. Imagine they had to have liked it, retweeted itself. That's insane for me to think that my cousin, my brother's sister tweets something racist and I get fired from my job. I mean, that's that's crazy. Like that's a lawsuit, to be honest with you, I don't understand how that can be the basis of of firing. But yeah, they had to have done something more. I think the closest way that it happens is if it's I don't know, No, I don't. I just don't agree with that. You can't control what somebody else. Yeah, well, well I take that back. It depends what type of job you have. If you're working at best Buy where you're not a pub figure and you're not you don't have that type of platform and nobody really knows. It's different. But if it was your mom, like you said for an example, you're an extension of that. So unless you publicly call your mother out and denounce yourself from that type of thinking, then because you are on a public platform, people will hold you to another standard. It's just what comes with the territory of being known. So I think, yeah, it's just it's just you just have to denounce yourself from that type of thinking and then I think people can accept it. Oh, Like I had to unfollow a few people who were standing up for the all Lives Matter thing, and I'm like, how stupid do you have to be to not understand the phrase black lives matter? How can you argue that? Like yeah, and I forget what comedians and he goes, we're just asking to matter? Yeah, how if statement we just want to matter like that? You know, Like it's it's like saying, you know, you're you sadly have to stand up at your child's funeral and something tragic has happened and your child has died, and somebody come up and grab the mic and go, actually, all children matter. Like it's just how do you not get that? I've heard that same point of view. I think it was yesterday on the same podcast, and like to put it in the easiest, most childlike terms With that example, I'm like, that is the same thing. Like you're at a funeral. Somebody else barges and said, oh, but you know, my family member died too. It's like, Okay, we get that, and we'll grieve at the right time, but right now you need to focus on this one. Not right now, Karen, Not right now. That's basically what you're saying. Oh, Becca, I'll let you because I know what anyone to say. Yeah. So you know, I'm so happy that we've had you on Caitlin to talk about this and kind of what we were trying to get at last week between the conversation with Rachel and I and just it's always good to have more people to see all different sides and so even to be able to ask different questions like playing off of best Buy. I love hearing your sides of things, So thank you plane into the changes that we want to see within the Bachelor franchise, and you know steps are being made. But watching your season back, is that Roman or Pino, Hi, buddy, it's just air, but he gets scared even at the red can because oh, just bring him in here. But you know, obviously steps were made in your season. Conversations were being had from your season regarding sexuality and we're seeing this take place now. So watching your season and moving forward, what do you hope to see within the Bachelor franchise? Well, okay, here's what's you know, we've seen the show evolve with the times. Okay, five years ago when I had sex on The Bachelor, Bet, it was so like, oh my gosh, I can't we can't believe she did that. Bus yes, and like now we're celebrating it four times in a windmill. Yeah. Yeah, So it's you know, that's the show is evolving, and I just hope to see that with everything. You know, like it it's hard like I even think about, um, like two bachelorettes to me, pitting two women together from a man to pick who they want. Everyone knows that really bothered me. Um. Now I can look back at it differently, but at the time, you know, and I think the show is able to you know, read the audience, and I think the audience is gonna, you know, want this now too. I hope, and I just hope that the show can keep growing away. It has over the last well, I mean, however many seasons, but over the last five seasons, I've seen it evolved with the times, you know, we had Demi and her girlfriend, We've had sex being celebrated. So hopefully we can now have you know, more people of color in the lead and behind the scenes and everything. They can grow in that way too. Yeah, speaking of celebrations, when you finished your season, you were quite vocal about we share this in common, vocal about certain things with the franchise and how you felt like you had been wronged in certain ways. And so here we are five years later, and it seems like, I don't know, people are getting their ship together and are trying to right wrongs. Okay, yeah, I'm so excited to announce that I am going to be on the season's Dancing with the stuff. Yeah, Oh my gosh, it feels so surreal to say that, just because it has been such a full circle moment and like I just I still can't when I say it out loud, I'm like, now something's gonna happen. I'm not gonna be on it like something's gonna go wrong. But yeah, that's I'm just so so honored. I was just gonna say. I mean, I think I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think I'm hoping I can speak for all of the bad shrets that we are behind you. We're so excited to see you. I think the first time I ever met you in person, when I did your podcast, we went out to dinner, and that was something we had talked about. Is that that is what you have been wanting to do. That was a goal in the dream of yours for so long, and I truly think like it is going to one of the most deserving people ever to be on that show. So I support you. I cannot wait to watch every night. I'm going to be making posters at home if I'm not there in person. But congratulations, from the bottom of my heart, I cannot wait. I'm so happy for you. Seriously, congratulations. I have to ask, I have to want to When I found out that you got this, I wanted to know what was your reaction. It does come out of the blue. When you found out, what was your reaction? It is twenty so you probably were like, okay. I was like sick joke, Okay, Um, well no, because they told me on the end of this of the episode, so Harrison told me, you know, I'm doing my interview with Jason and no, I'm thinking about your reaction. How great it was. I honestly was. I'm in there with Jason and Chris Harrison's like I've got something, like I'm one hundred percent serious, and that Dancing with the Stars didn't even enter my brain. I was like, yeah, he's going to ask me to take over his job and he's retiring, Like what other thing could it be? Like, I just couldn't think of anything. I was. I thought either Jason was proposing or Chris Harrison was retiring and I was going to audition to take his place. I was like so shocked and like emotions, and I was like I didn't want to be like too crazy about it, so I was like stay cool, Caitlin like stay cool, and then I couldn't stay cool and I cried and like I think I told Chris Harris and I loved him like ten times. It was a little embarrassing, but that's just how in shock I was. Well, we are excited for you, And what I want to recognize is that there's a lot going on in the world. You know, we're in the middle of a race war, we're in a pandemic. But I think that what's so important to remember is that there are still great things happening, and it's okay for you to be happy and excited about this. This is five years in the making and we should celebrate great things that are still happening for us. It doesn't take away from anything that's happening in the world. And I'm so excited for you, and I know Becca already shared that she is too. And what it also gives me hope for is that you can speak out, you can call out certain things, and it might take five years, but you eventually get what you want. So you're given me hope that. So I'm three years in this franchise, in two years, it's gonna come back around, like I'm not dancing with the stars. But just the things that I've been saying are deserved and that I want. It gives me hope to know that things are gonna get gonna happen in this franchise. Yes, I think that's a good way to look at it too. Yeah. Absolutely, it's it's you fight for what you believe in and what you want and what means something to you, and no matter what, good things always come from that. You know, if you're a good person with good intentions and you fight for what's right, good things will come. Well said, Well, I want to end this on a high note, a fun note, because obviously, Caitlin, pretty soon you're gonna have to be sharing with the world all of your moves. So have you been prepping, have you been stretching, have you been busting out the ballet or the tab shoes? What have you been doing that? Funny? My mom is like, I think, just as excited as I am. She was a professional ballerina growing up, and she has been sending me YouTube videos on ballroom dancing, and I was like, Mom, I kind of want to go into it, like I'm already a little bit like I'm lucky that I danced my whole life. I was like, I've never done ballroom dancing. I've never even tried, and I kind of want to go in blind and learn. So I will tell you though, I have been doing some personal training and I can't even walk right now because I've been doing so many squats. So I'm trying to feel strong going into it and get in my best shape so I can feel good going into it. Good for you, so happy. Thank you guys so much. You're so supportive and sweet. I love you guys, and thank you for just being open and honest and just like letting us have this conversation talking about from what's going on in the world to how we want to do better and make a difference, to celebrating achievements of our fellow sisters. So kudos to you. We're excited. I know bats Nation is excited too, so I just can't even believe it. Thank you guys so much for having me on and thank you for having important conversations and doing what you do. And I just adore you both. Thank you for being with us. It's always fun having Caitlin. I always good time talking to her. Well, you know what I was thinking, as like, I feel like I talked to Kaitlin. I've done things with Kaitlin. We have our group chat, and I was thinking, this is the first time she's been on our podcast, I was just thinking that, you know, we've done hers, so the first time we've had her, and it was great. It's hard to book her because she's so busy. She's so freaking now's been busier. I know that well, I was thinking about that today. She has so many brands, she has her podcast, she has nine to wine show, and now this. It's like she better have like three managers behind her scheduling her time. But yes, I'm so glad we were able to get her. It's just the more I talked to Kaitlyn and get to know her, you know, because I don't see her all that often because she's in Nashville. It's She's just one of those people who I feel like anyone can talk to, feel comfortable with, open up to. She's she's got that good soul. So I'm glad she was here. It's always good having another woman's point of view on the show. Yeah, there's a reason that Caitlin has success. And you know, I'm not taking away from her talent or her hard work, but it's also the type of energy that she gives off in the type of person she is, and she's truly a girl's girl, and you know, we called her up last minute asked her if she could do this. She was more than willing to be a part of it. And what I also love, and what I think is important because it's what we talked about too, is that Kaitlyn is somebody who's extremely influential and has a really big platform in a voice on a number of levels. So the fact that she's been very honest about the fact that she hasn't been as outspoken on certain issues, but she recognizes it and wants to learn and grow, and her platform and even reflect that in her business as well is huge, and I know it's going to set an example for so many other people. So I really appreciate her giving that to us and just being an example in that. And she said we can hold her accountable, and I know I will, yes, but I also won't have to. She'll be fine. Yeah. I have faith that she's she is someone who stands by what she says, and when she says she wants to learn, grow, have positive action and impact. I believe her. Yeah, So it was good to have her. You know, Rachel, I feel like we've been talking for so long. You guys are probably sick of hearing from me at this point, So I just want to thank all of our Bachelor Happy Hour listeners for tuning into another episode today. And don't forget Bachelor Greatest Season's ever is airing every Monday night at eight seventh Central on ABC, and next week we're going to recab Ben Higgins. He's like a brother to me, but we're gonna be recapping his season, so we can't wait to watch. It's one that I actually have never watched his full season. I feel like it's going to be a little bit weird watching it back because, like I said, he is like a brother. But we also love hearing from all of you guys, all of your thoughts, your comments, concerns, questions, So keep writing to us, keep commenting, please follow Like DMUs you can find us at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram and at Batch Happy Hour on both Facebook and Twitter.