Mastering the Power of Persuasion and Personal Growth with Mark Bowden

WEBVTT

00:00:01.504 --> 00:00:09.391
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Big Success podcast, cutting edge conversations on business and personal success, as well as how to level up.

00:00:09.391 --> 00:00:14.109
<v Speaker 1>Here's your host, number one business coach in the world, brad Shokers.

00:00:16.565 --> 00:00:18.774
<v Speaker 2>You know I've never heard anyone refer to success.

00:00:18.774 --> 00:00:26.687
<v Speaker 2>The way Mark Bowden does it and I think it's going to his perspective on it really has got me a lot to think about and I think it'll change the way you think too.

00:00:26.687 --> 00:00:41.979
<v Speaker 2>Now he's a communication body language, non-verbal communication expert, Like he's worked with the army, with actually the presidents, the G7, the AMEX, NATO, so the people he teaches are at a phenomenal level.

00:00:41.979 --> 00:00:45.790
<v Speaker 2>So that gives you an idea of the caliber of the lessons you're about to get.

00:00:45.790 --> 00:00:58.853
<v Speaker 2>My big thing is really how he teaches you and I to control our communication, how we can be better communicators, how you can draw more success to you by being a better communicators.

00:00:58.853 --> 00:01:00.286
<v Speaker 2>I love the lessons.

00:01:00.286 --> 00:01:06.507
<v Speaker 2>Mark's been a phenomenal presenter for us at my BizX programs, but I think today he came out with his best stuff.

00:01:06.507 --> 00:01:08.069
<v Speaker 2>Enjoy the podcast.

00:01:08.069 --> 00:01:08.710
<v Speaker 2>Here's Mark.

00:01:08.710 --> 00:01:14.691
<v Speaker 2>All right, Mark, first question what is your definition of success?

00:01:15.701 --> 00:01:17.789
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I would say it's simply helping people.

00:01:17.789 --> 00:01:22.980
<v Speaker 3>You know, all I'm ever trying to do is help people with whatever they need help with.

00:01:22.980 --> 00:01:33.331
<v Speaker 3>Now, look, I've got this expertise specialization in non-verbal communication, communication in general, behavioral analysis, behavior so it tends to focus around there.

00:01:33.331 --> 00:01:35.000
<v Speaker 3>But I'm only trying to help people.

00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:39.028
<v Speaker 3>So at the end of the day I feel like, or people feel like, I've helped.

00:01:39.028 --> 00:01:40.733
<v Speaker 3>That's success for me, brad.

00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:46.070
<v Speaker 2>But was that always your definition of success or did that evolve over time?

00:01:47.641 --> 00:01:54.905
<v Speaker 3>I think it evolved over time because, as I got more successful, I started to think well, how is that happening?

00:01:54.905 --> 00:01:59.466
<v Speaker 3>Because you know I'd sought to be successful, because why wouldn't you?

00:01:59.466 --> 00:02:08.991
<v Speaker 3>Because you're trying to survive, you're trying to get on, you're trying to get praise from people, you're trying to get some kind of ranking in some kind of social organization.

00:02:08.991 --> 00:02:13.546
<v Speaker 3>And so you know, part of your mind is going well, I better be successful, I better be successful.

00:02:13.546 --> 00:02:18.608
<v Speaker 3>And as that happens, then I kind of went well, how is it happening?

00:02:18.608 --> 00:02:20.853
<v Speaker 3>Why am I being successful?

00:02:20.853 --> 00:02:25.752
<v Speaker 3>And what it came down to, I thought, was I'm helping people.

00:02:25.752 --> 00:02:35.344
<v Speaker 3>And so, look, you know, if it wins you a trophy or you're getting some financial gain around it, I was still going yeah, but what's?

00:02:35.344 --> 00:02:38.932
<v Speaker 3>Those are just representations of the success.

00:02:38.932 --> 00:02:41.552
<v Speaker 3>Like, what am I actually doing?

00:02:41.552 --> 00:02:42.979
<v Speaker 3>And I thought it was helping people.

00:02:43.883 --> 00:02:49.787
<v Speaker 2>Now you said something interesting there, in that you're always just chasing success or you always want success.

00:02:49.787 --> 00:02:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I guess the people on the podcast definitely are that way.

00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.915
<v Speaker 2>But where did you think in your life you chose success?

00:02:57.915 --> 00:02:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Was it as a kid, a young man?

00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:04.611
<v Speaker 2>Where did you choose that I'm going to be successful or I'm going to go after success?

00:03:05.442 --> 00:03:05.925
<v Speaker 3>Interesting.

00:03:05.925 --> 00:03:12.266
<v Speaker 3>So I mean this leads towards, I think, one of your other questions, which is, I'm not sure whether I chose success.

00:03:12.266 --> 00:03:29.831
<v Speaker 3>I think I was avoiding failure, okay so, and failure for me was pretty bad I mean pretty bad failure and so I didn't want that to happen anymore.

00:03:29.831 --> 00:03:43.311
<v Speaker 3>So I think I started to look at and plan and think about how could I be successful, because I don't want the failure anymore.

00:03:43.311 --> 00:03:52.984
<v Speaker 3>And then I hit upon, I think, being actually very successful in stuff and then working out well, how am I managing that?

00:03:52.984 --> 00:04:03.706
<v Speaker 3>Again, I think it's a general movement away from failure than towards success, and I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it's the way I see it, you know.

00:04:04.161 --> 00:04:21.288
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, every one of us makes our choice in a different way, and whether the choice is to move away from or towards, I think a way from is it's motivating for a period, but at some point you must have flipped that switch and said, yes, success is my choice.

00:04:21.288 --> 00:04:26.586
<v Speaker 2>Even did you have a few runs on the board and then you went yes, I like this, I'm going to continue with this.

00:04:26.586 --> 00:04:27.370
<v Speaker 2>Well, what happened?

00:04:28.562 --> 00:04:45.202
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think you're absolutely right Is that there comes a certain point where the abject failure that I'd been moving away from I'd managed to get my strategies, my tools, my techniques to a certain level that I was able to go.

00:04:45.202 --> 00:04:45.985
<v Speaker 3>Well, you know what?

00:04:45.985 --> 00:04:52.608
<v Speaker 3>It's never going to be that bad, I'm never going to go back there anymore.

00:04:52.608 --> 00:04:55.923
<v Speaker 3>And so then I think you're absolutely right, you can go okay.

00:04:55.923 --> 00:05:02.901
<v Speaker 3>So what would be really useful about being more consistently really successful, would that be?

00:05:02.901 --> 00:05:05.346
<v Speaker 3>You know, would that mean, will I feel better?

00:05:05.346 --> 00:05:07.853
<v Speaker 3>Will I have a better life?

00:05:07.853 --> 00:05:10.625
<v Speaker 3>Will other people feel better around me?

00:05:10.625 --> 00:05:22.093
<v Speaker 3>You know, is there a case for putting in, from my point of view, the massive effort that it takes in order to be consistently successful?

00:05:23.019 --> 00:05:24.502
<v Speaker 2>So let's look at that then.

00:05:24.502 --> 00:05:28.531
<v Speaker 2>You've mentioned part of your formula for success is helping people.

00:05:28.531 --> 00:05:31.867
<v Speaker 2>What else is in that formula for success in your mind?

00:05:31.867 --> 00:05:33.170
<v Speaker 2>What's the methodology?

00:05:34.100 --> 00:05:35.442
<v Speaker 3>Consistency.

00:05:35.442 --> 00:05:40.492
<v Speaker 3>So there's helping people and then there's consistently doing it.

00:05:40.492 --> 00:05:49.108
<v Speaker 3>There's no good to do it on Monday and then the rest of the days it's like well, you know, I managed it on Monday, so you know the rest of the week you get it.

00:05:49.108 --> 00:05:56.262
<v Speaker 3>You know it's got to be like Monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, saturday, saturday, you know, and at a consistent level.

00:05:56.262 --> 00:05:59.451
<v Speaker 3>And so you've got to have the tools and the techniques.

00:05:59.451 --> 00:06:05.345
<v Speaker 3>So you've got to have technique, you've got to have tools, you've got to have strategy, you've got to have a plan in order to do that.

00:06:05.345 --> 00:06:08.932
<v Speaker 3>You've got to be able to execute the plan on that.

00:06:08.932 --> 00:06:14.430
<v Speaker 3>You've got to have the resilience to keep going with the plan.

00:06:14.430 --> 00:06:21.713
<v Speaker 3>Now you know again to one of the other questions you have I'm not a fan of failure by any stretch.

00:06:21.713 --> 00:06:43.829
<v Speaker 3>So you've got to have a plan, I think, to keep away from failure and into success on a consistent basis, and the resilience to keep going with it so you don't fall back into failure at any point.

00:06:44.336 --> 00:06:49.464
<v Speaker 2>What's your methodology for resilience, like, how do you stay in that mode?

00:06:49.464 --> 00:06:51.228
<v Speaker 2>How do you personally do that?

00:06:52.076 --> 00:06:56.146
<v Speaker 3>It's just a phrase in my head keep going, keep going, keep going.

00:06:57.396 --> 00:06:59.420
<v Speaker 2>It's like that kid's movie, Dory.

00:06:59.461 --> 00:07:13.581
<v Speaker 3>You know, just keep swimming, just keep swimming and I've had that advice from a bunch of people along the way and it seems consistent help and advice.

00:07:13.581 --> 00:07:20.110
<v Speaker 3>Now, look, maybe it's in my own head and I just, whenever I hear it from somebody, along with all the other stuff, I go look, there it is.

00:07:20.110 --> 00:07:23.160
<v Speaker 3>There's that thing of keep going.

00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:36.220
<v Speaker 3>So I'm under no illusions that it might be my own advice to me and actually, you know, other people are giving me lots more and even better advice but but ultimately, that's the.

00:07:36.220 --> 00:07:41.088
<v Speaker 3>You know, that's the thing that I pick up on the most and seems to be the most helpful.

00:07:41.088 --> 00:07:42.418
<v Speaker 3>It's simple, it's easy.

00:07:42.418 --> 00:07:43.822
<v Speaker 3>What an easy strategy.

00:07:43.822 --> 00:07:44.384
<v Speaker 3>Keep going.

00:07:46.677 --> 00:07:50.747
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't need complexity, I just need one thing Keep going.

00:07:51.235 --> 00:07:52.418
<v Speaker 3>Totally, totally.

00:07:52.418 --> 00:08:00.144
<v Speaker 3>Look, I mean, you know, I don't need, I don't need a complicated or even a complex plan, I need a really simple one because I have to execute it every day.

00:08:00.144 --> 00:08:07.208
<v Speaker 3>So so you know, I'm not a fan of the complex or the complicated plan, by any stretch of the imagination.

00:08:07.875 --> 00:08:11.062
<v Speaker 2>I'm a very simple six things on my list to do each day.

00:08:11.062 --> 00:08:12.867
<v Speaker 2>If it's more than six, it's not getting done.

00:08:12.867 --> 00:08:14.416
<v Speaker 2>Less than six, I'm not doing enough.

00:08:14.416 --> 00:08:16.180
<v Speaker 2>I just go for six things.

00:08:16.180 --> 00:08:20.408
<v Speaker 2>I love that you and I are both in the forget the complexity stuff.

00:08:20.408 --> 00:08:21.499
<v Speaker 2>Just go for simple.

00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:23.144
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, really.

00:08:23.144 --> 00:08:25.158
<v Speaker 3>But that doesn't mean it's very.

00:08:25.158 --> 00:08:31.627
<v Speaker 3>It's easy to to, I guess, chunk up or chunk down the what is.

00:08:31.627 --> 00:08:34.697
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's a complex world out there, there's no doubt about it.

00:08:34.697 --> 00:08:37.845
<v Speaker 3>You know, especially when you're working with people it's super complex.

00:08:37.845 --> 00:08:45.668
<v Speaker 3>So so to create a simple plan like keep going, that's actually quite hard work, I would say.

00:08:46.254 --> 00:08:50.105
<v Speaker 2>So you've touched on it a bunch, but I want to get dive into a little bit more.

00:08:50.105 --> 00:08:57.488
<v Speaker 2>How does failure fit in with success, like, what's the relationship in your mind between failure and success?

00:08:58.034 --> 00:09:02.455
<v Speaker 3>Look, I know there's a lot of people out there and look, to an extent you might be one of them, brad.

00:09:02.455 --> 00:09:05.163
<v Speaker 3>So correct, you know, I'm open to correction on this.

00:09:05.163 --> 00:09:08.864
<v Speaker 3>But there's a bunch of people out there that say you learn from your failures.

00:09:08.864 --> 00:09:13.565
<v Speaker 3>That's not me, ok that I'm not one of those people.

00:09:13.565 --> 00:09:21.187
<v Speaker 3>I think failure hurts so much that I think actually, failure causes most people to give up.

00:09:21.187 --> 00:09:29.686
<v Speaker 3>You know, really think it does and and and it's got me there, close to there, on a number of occasions.

00:09:29.686 --> 00:09:46.828
<v Speaker 3>And so I want, I want to help people avoid those failures so they don't give up and they don't get hurt, in that I mean there's, there's pain from failure that hurts so much that it can cause you to absolutely give up.

00:09:46.828 --> 00:09:51.447
<v Speaker 3>And look, and there are people out there who go well, you know, no, you know you'll learn from it and don't give up.

00:09:51.447 --> 00:09:54.703
<v Speaker 3>It's like, well, you haven't been hurt enough, you don't know what it feels like.

00:09:54.703 --> 00:09:59.926
<v Speaker 3>You don't know you like, you like you haven't failed big.

00:10:01.136 --> 00:10:08.980
<v Speaker 2>So you know so I had a good conversation the other day that, like someone was saying, you know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

00:10:08.980 --> 00:10:12.284
<v Speaker 2>It's like dude, I'm strong enough, I don't need any more kill things.

00:10:13.171 --> 00:10:13.794
<v Speaker 3>Right, right.

00:10:13.794 --> 00:10:16.099
<v Speaker 3>How close do you want to get to death?

00:10:16.099 --> 00:10:16.720
<v Speaker 3>To?

00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:23.070
<v Speaker 3>Really like how, what pain are you looking for to see whether that you would learn from that?

00:10:23.070 --> 00:10:28.746
<v Speaker 3>The only thing I've ever, ever learned is don't do, don't ever go there again.

00:10:28.746 --> 00:10:29.856
<v Speaker 3>Now did it?

00:10:30.118 --> 00:10:32.725
<v Speaker 3>did it cause me to learn something that could push me forward?

00:10:32.725 --> 00:10:39.975
<v Speaker 3>No, it just caused me to go Don't, don't get into that, and I don't know whether that's a good, that's a good lesson.

00:10:39.975 --> 00:10:42.443
<v Speaker 3>But look I could be I could be wrong about this.

00:10:42.443 --> 00:10:44.682
<v Speaker 3>I'm open to correction about these.

00:10:44.774 --> 00:11:06.615
<v Speaker 2>One of the great things about doing this podcast is I get to ask successful people these questions and everyone has a slightly different tangent on it, and I think that's what's helping me and all the podcast subscribers just gain more insight into success and insight into how to do it.

00:11:06.615 --> 00:11:11.726
<v Speaker 2>So tell me your definitional difference between a mistake and failure.

00:11:11.726 --> 00:11:14.003
<v Speaker 2>How do you define the difference between the two?

00:11:14.895 --> 00:11:16.522
<v Speaker 3>I think a mistake is recoverable.

00:11:16.522 --> 00:11:22.767
<v Speaker 3>Like you could apologize, brad, if I make a mistake with you, I can say hey, brad, look, you know, sorry about that, mate.

00:11:22.767 --> 00:11:25.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, let me, let's move forward.

00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:36.596
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, you are like it's a dark pit and I don't know, and I think it's hard to to have the will to climb out of it Sometimes.

00:11:36.796 --> 00:11:42.350
<v Speaker 2>I feel like tonight I'm going to have to read the other places you go to my kids like it.

00:11:42.350 --> 00:11:43.037
<v Speaker 2>Let's get out.

00:11:43.037 --> 00:11:45.201
<v Speaker 2>Dr Seuss, we're in the waiting place.

00:11:45.201 --> 00:11:46.440
<v Speaker 2>We're in the dark area.

00:11:47.635 --> 00:11:49.001
<v Speaker 3>Right, right, right.

00:11:49.001 --> 00:12:05.919
<v Speaker 3>And look, you know my idea of failure comes from from, from having dyslexia and just the failure at school and and and just feeling so awful at everything and and know, and being ranked.

00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:13.779
<v Speaker 3>Like you know, when you are ranked the lowest, it's clear you're not getting one of these bright, shiny prizes.

00:12:13.779 --> 00:12:26.352
<v Speaker 3>You are sitting in a certain position in the class that everybody can see just what a failure you are and you're being told it day after day after day.

00:12:26.352 --> 00:12:27.134
<v Speaker 3>And there is.

00:12:27.134 --> 00:12:44.063
<v Speaker 3>And as hard as you try, brad, as hard as you learn like you can learn from that failure, go, okay, I got zero in that spelling test and then the words are so simple, you know it's so simple, and I got zero, so I will learn from that and I'll do better.

00:12:44.063 --> 00:12:48.594
<v Speaker 3>No, you don't do any better, it just gets worse.

00:12:48.594 --> 00:12:58.104
<v Speaker 3>So so you know it's a bit of a a dark place that I would never want anybody else to it to have to experience.

00:12:58.104 --> 00:12:59.570
<v Speaker 3>Why should anybody have to experience that?

00:12:59.570 --> 00:13:00.130
<v Speaker 3>It's horrible.

00:13:00.192 --> 00:13:06.873
<v Speaker 2>It's terrible, you know you're on the big success podcast, today known as the not failure podcast.

00:13:06.873 --> 00:13:18.663
<v Speaker 2>We'll be back in just a moment with Mark Bowden and we're going to take a look at a whole bunch of things around what made him massively successful without the proper methodologies and strategies, building a wealthy life can be difficult.

00:13:18.783 --> 00:13:24.186
<v Speaker 4>If you're struggling with building wealth yourself, this is the time to join Brad sugar's 30x wealth program.

00:13:24.186 --> 00:13:29.942
<v Speaker 4>The 30 videos in this program will help you learn how to make your money work for you rather than you working for it.

00:13:29.942 --> 00:13:33.115
<v Speaker 4>Create the life of your dreams and way back.

00:13:33.616 --> 00:13:35.340
<v Speaker 2>Big success mark.

00:13:35.340 --> 00:13:40.219
<v Speaker 2>One of the things I love about you is that TED talk inauthentic.

00:13:40.298 --> 00:13:53.543
<v Speaker 3>I gotta be inauthentic, explain that to everyone because I love the way you explained it well, look, there's an element of that which is just kind of clickbait marketing, brad, which is, which is to basically say the opposite of what everybody else was saying at the time.

00:13:53.543 --> 00:14:04.201
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so I totally admit that everybody was talking about being authentic and so I went, okay, let's just go for the opposite, because it'll get some attention.

00:14:04.201 --> 00:14:08.513
<v Speaker 3>But within that, brad, is something that I believe to be absolutely true.

00:14:08.513 --> 00:14:36.914
<v Speaker 3>I felt at that time, when I produced that and wrote that TED talk, that there was something that I called authenticity shaming going on, which was, yeah, you know, basically, basically, brad, if I didn't kind of like what you were saying, if I didn't wasn't getting on with you in some way or you were rubbing me up the way wrong way, I could go to you, or I could go to somebody who knew you and I could go.

00:14:36.914 --> 00:14:37.355
<v Speaker 3>You know what?

00:14:37.355 --> 00:14:39.441
<v Speaker 3>I don't think Brad's being very authentic.

00:14:39.441 --> 00:14:46.191
<v Speaker 3>Or I could go, brad, but look, you're really being authentic with me right now, and and and look, you might go.

00:14:46.250 --> 00:14:56.942
<v Speaker 3>Hey, mark, you know I'm being totally authentic with you right now, but what I could do is go well, you know, I just don't think you are, and so I'm sorry, how would I know?

00:14:56.942 --> 00:15:05.243
<v Speaker 3>How would I know whether you're be only you know that, and how would you even know like what are you?

00:15:05.243 --> 00:15:18.464
<v Speaker 3>What do we, what do we know about our own personalities, also in different situations that we absolutely know, know how our core will perform in any and every situation?

00:15:18.464 --> 00:15:22.212
<v Speaker 3>And even if that's true, do we want to be that forever?

00:15:22.212 --> 00:15:29.951
<v Speaker 3>I mean, if I've got my core set, my core, you know, authenticity set like is that good enough?

00:15:29.951 --> 00:15:32.818
<v Speaker 3>Is that, is that successful enough?

00:15:32.818 --> 00:15:33.561
<v Speaker 3>You know, do?

00:15:33.561 --> 00:15:40.879
<v Speaker 3>Can I see more success if I, if I, if I held some other values, some better values?

00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:48.384
<v Speaker 3>May or maybe I'm not happy with my authentic self, but there was this idea of like Mark, you should be happy with your authentic self.

00:15:48.384 --> 00:15:53.341
<v Speaker 3>It's no, my authentic self in some situations is not pleasant to be around.

00:15:53.341 --> 00:15:55.466
<v Speaker 3>You don't want to be.

00:15:55.466 --> 00:15:58.697
<v Speaker 3>But there's a, there's a slightly inauthentic me, one that can go.

00:15:58.697 --> 00:16:02.789
<v Speaker 3>You know what my core is this, but I'm going to try my best.

00:16:02.789 --> 00:16:10.096
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to perform in a way that will make me better to get on with a, more helpful to people and, and it's going to be hard work.

00:16:10.096 --> 00:16:15.279
<v Speaker 3>It won't be easy, it won't be comfortable for me, it won't be that comfortable authenticity.

00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:20.756
<v Speaker 3>It'll be uncomfortable for me, but it'll be better for me and better for other people.

00:16:20.756 --> 00:16:24.215
<v Speaker 3>So, brad, I hope that explains that.

00:16:24.515 --> 00:16:25.217
<v Speaker 2>It does, buddy.

00:16:25.217 --> 00:16:32.339
<v Speaker 2>Look, I think that you know, being your authentic self is different to being your best self, Right?

00:16:32.339 --> 00:16:32.580
<v Speaker 2>I?

00:16:33.041 --> 00:16:43.110
<v Speaker 2>think that was one big thing I took out of your talk is that sometimes you need to be a better version of you, not just the current authentic version of you.

00:16:43.110 --> 00:16:46.337
<v Speaker 2>But I have to debate you on one thing you just said there.

00:16:46.337 --> 00:16:48.933
<v Speaker 2>You said no one knows if you're being authentic.

00:16:48.933 --> 00:16:54.254
<v Speaker 2>If there's one guy on the planet that knows if you're being authentic or not, it's you.

00:16:54.254 --> 00:16:54.956
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:16:54.956 --> 00:16:57.966
<v Speaker 2>You would be the one guy that could read if I'm authentic.

00:16:57.966 --> 00:17:00.595
<v Speaker 2>So let's do the whole body language thing.

00:17:00.695 --> 00:17:01.015
<v Speaker 3>Lovely.

00:17:02.461 --> 00:17:08.074
<v Speaker 2>Rather than starting with reading others, let's start with ourselves and our own body language.

00:17:08.074 --> 00:17:10.358
<v Speaker 2>How do we become a master of that?

00:17:10.358 --> 00:17:16.116
<v Speaker 2>You know well coming across as trustworthy, coming across as believable type thing.

00:17:16.684 --> 00:17:26.115
<v Speaker 3>Well, the first thing you're going to do is know that you can, know that you can control your body, know that you are in charge of your behaviors.

00:17:26.115 --> 00:17:31.290
<v Speaker 3>Now, knowing that you've got to then go, well, when am I less in charge of them?

00:17:31.290 --> 00:17:41.005
<v Speaker 3>When do I get triggered into, you know, authentic behaviors, ie instinctual behaviors that maybe don't get me the results that I want and I need?

00:17:41.005 --> 00:17:46.026
<v Speaker 3>Look, there's no bad body language, there's no bad behavior, just results that you wanted or didn't want.

00:17:46.026 --> 00:17:54.028
<v Speaker 3>And in some situations I can get triggered into behaviors that don't help me and they don't help you and they don't help us.

00:17:54.028 --> 00:18:00.771
<v Speaker 3>So, can I know the situations that trigger those behaviors before I go into those situations?

00:18:00.771 --> 00:18:07.066
<v Speaker 3>Can I start choosing different behaviors that are more likely to get me those results?

00:18:07.066 --> 00:18:08.651
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think you can.

00:18:08.651 --> 00:18:11.980
<v Speaker 3>I know you can, okay, and I know we all can.

00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:13.766
<v Speaker 3>So then we have to go.

00:18:13.766 --> 00:18:15.730
<v Speaker 3>What's the potential vocabulary?

00:18:15.730 --> 00:18:24.298
<v Speaker 3>Can I learn more behaviors to do on purpose that will more likely get me the results that I want and I need?

00:18:24.298 --> 00:18:37.547
<v Speaker 3>So look, if it's, for example, the behaviors of trust, because in some situations I might be triggered into behaviors that would mean you don't trust me, let's just suggest, brad, that there's open body language and closed body language.

00:18:37.547 --> 00:18:42.383
<v Speaker 3>Okay, and it's very easy for us both to imagine what that would look like.

00:18:42.383 --> 00:18:44.027
<v Speaker 3>But we can just basically go.

00:18:44.567 --> 00:18:53.913
<v Speaker 3>If you come in from a cold day and you stand in front of a warm fire, what's the kind of behavior that you end up doing with your body?

00:18:53.913 --> 00:18:59.980
<v Speaker 3>Well, you open up your hands, you open up your torso, you open up your arms and you let that heat in.

00:18:59.980 --> 00:19:02.828
<v Speaker 3>You know, and I can say, look, that's open body language.

00:19:02.828 --> 00:19:07.968
<v Speaker 3>What's the kind of behaviors that we do with our body on a cold day if we're outside?

00:19:07.968 --> 00:19:24.028
<v Speaker 3>Well, we tuck in our elbows, we start hugging ourselves, we start getting our hands close to the places we're going to lose most heat our neck, you know our armpits, you know our stomach area.

00:19:24.028 --> 00:19:26.736
<v Speaker 3>Let's just suggest that's closed body language.

00:19:26.736 --> 00:19:29.188
<v Speaker 3>Well, look, can I do those on purpose?

00:19:29.188 --> 00:19:31.472
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I can, I can.

00:19:31.472 --> 00:19:35.747
<v Speaker 3>So maybe choose those behaviors more to be more trustworthy.

00:19:37.509 --> 00:19:39.634
<v Speaker 2>What about persuasive?

00:19:39.634 --> 00:19:42.798
<v Speaker 2>How does my body need to be so I'm more persuasive?

00:19:43.286 --> 00:19:44.508
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I love this, I love this.

00:19:44.508 --> 00:19:48.096
<v Speaker 3>So look, first of all, with the idea of persuasion.

00:19:48.096 --> 00:19:51.313
<v Speaker 3>Often we put in front of that the idea of influence.

00:19:51.313 --> 00:19:53.460
<v Speaker 3>So influence and persuasion.

00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:55.125
<v Speaker 3>Influence is a great word.

00:19:55.125 --> 00:19:56.309
<v Speaker 3>It's from medieval Latin.

00:19:56.309 --> 00:19:59.538
<v Speaker 3>It means to be in flow in the river with Okay.

00:20:00.261 --> 00:20:05.296
<v Speaker 3>So so, first of all, before I can be persuasive, I need to be influential.

00:20:05.296 --> 00:20:14.380
<v Speaker 3>So to be persuasive, I first need to get in the river with you, which means I need to mirror some of your beneficial behaviors.

00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:19.096
<v Speaker 3>I need to copy some of your behaviors, not the ones that are not beneficial.

00:20:19.096 --> 00:20:27.278
<v Speaker 3>If you're being aggressive and arrogant, and that's going to get neither of us anywhere, unless we want that kind of interaction, you know.

00:20:27.278 --> 00:20:31.894
<v Speaker 3>And then I might go okay, let's join in on this, what a great game, let's do this.

00:20:33.384 --> 00:20:52.511
<v Speaker 3>But look, if I want to persuade you in a certain direction and persuasion, that is the kind of derivation of that is to move hard If I want to move you hard in a certain direction, I first of all need to get with your current behaviors.

00:20:52.511 --> 00:21:09.433
<v Speaker 3>So, so then I can move from your current behaviors to the ones that I'd like you to take, so I can start to transform where we both are to a new and more and better place for you.

00:21:09.433 --> 00:21:17.153
<v Speaker 3>So I can start to convince you that this new route is easier, more successful for you.

00:21:17.153 --> 00:21:19.778
<v Speaker 3>There's a good prize at the end of that Now.

00:21:19.778 --> 00:21:26.538
<v Speaker 3>I hope that that maybe sounds a little bit nebulous, brad, but I hope it gives you the kind of theory and practice behind that.

00:21:28.326 --> 00:21:45.438
<v Speaker 2>So is there and this is something I'm thinking every time because, reading the book and going through things, there was one part in there where I was thinking I wonder if this is different from a business situation to a private, like friends or family situation.

00:21:45.438 --> 00:21:50.115
<v Speaker 2>I've never had anyone to ask that of, so I'm asking you is there a big difference in that?

00:21:50.476 --> 00:21:50.936
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, lovely.

00:21:50.936 --> 00:21:53.589
<v Speaker 3>So you know the kind of question there is.

00:21:53.589 --> 00:21:56.416
<v Speaker 3>Is corporate behavior different from family behavior?

00:21:57.086 --> 00:21:59.093
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like for a body language point of view.

00:21:59.545 --> 00:22:01.965
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, absolutely so.

00:22:01.965 --> 00:22:13.135
<v Speaker 3>You know corporation means, you know, the combined body of everybody, and company comes from Latin compañia, to eat bread together.

00:22:13.135 --> 00:22:26.035
<v Speaker 3>So the idea of the company and the corporation is simply everybody sits around the table and shares bread, just like you do with your family, and you check out like okay, can we trust each other here?

00:22:26.035 --> 00:22:28.551
<v Speaker 3>Who seems to be getting the biggest share of the bread?

00:22:28.551 --> 00:22:31.092
<v Speaker 3>What end of the table is the bread held?

00:22:31.092 --> 00:22:33.132
<v Speaker 3>Who seems to have the salt and the pepper?

00:22:33.132 --> 00:22:37.515
<v Speaker 3>You know who's got the steel tools in order to cut this bread up.

00:22:37.515 --> 00:22:56.096
<v Speaker 3>You know, ultimately, the same systems, the same principles under which we kind of judge each other within our family and friend communities are the same basic, fundamental systems that we judge corporate and company behavior.

00:22:56.096 --> 00:23:10.798
<v Speaker 3>So for me, so long as you understand the principles, you'll be able to extract from those principles behaviors that work best for you, both in family and with companies and corporations.

00:23:10.798 --> 00:23:12.970
<v Speaker 3>So I hope that makes sense to you, brad.

00:23:13.392 --> 00:23:13.873
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

00:23:13.873 --> 00:23:18.710
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I hope everyone else got value from that, but it was something I've been meaning to ask for a long time.

00:23:18.710 --> 00:23:21.412
<v Speaker 2>So let's flip it over.

00:23:21.412 --> 00:23:23.348
<v Speaker 2>Understanding other people.

00:23:23.348 --> 00:23:32.696
<v Speaker 2>Okay, because there's obviously I got to be controlling what I'm communicating, but I want to be able to understand what others are communicating.

00:23:32.696 --> 00:23:36.855
<v Speaker 2>What are some of the keys to understanding others' communication from their body?

00:23:37.465 --> 00:23:37.666
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:23:37.666 --> 00:23:53.915
<v Speaker 3>So the main thing you've got to understand is one signal is not usually enough, never really usual enough for you to be able to make a very strong decision as to what somebody might be feeling and intending towards you or towards others.

00:23:53.915 --> 00:24:09.934
<v Speaker 3>So you're looking for clusters of behavior, okay, and also, because often you may not have enough clusters of behavior, when insufficient data, we default to negatives, our instinct defaults to negatives.

00:24:09.934 --> 00:24:31.256
<v Speaker 3>So understand, when I instinctually read your body language, unless I'm getting an overwhelm of positive indicators, I'm most likely to predict that you're negative towards me, my ideas, my friends, my family, just because it's better to be safe than sorry.

00:24:31.256 --> 00:24:38.738
<v Speaker 3>If I'm not getting enough from you, then I'm going to bias towards the negative.

00:24:38.738 --> 00:24:56.613
<v Speaker 3>So every time I get an instinctual prediction about you, if I'm smart at reading body language and the critical thinking around that, I'll always put the word maybe or perhaps behind any decision I seem to be instinctually making.

00:24:56.613 --> 00:25:37.289
<v Speaker 3>So just then you're head tipped back and you nodded your head there and so, okay, there's a couple of clusters there that suggest to me okay, brad is thinking about that and I think he's made a positive decision around that, and I think to myself maybe, maybe, and so what I did there was to repeat my assumption about you and pick up even more data nonverbally from you to go is my prediction here accurate around this, and I got a whole bunch of more positive clusters to say, okay, I think I'm pretty accurate, that Brad got that.

00:25:37.289 --> 00:25:39.893
<v Speaker 3>He was in somewhat agreement with it.

00:25:39.893 --> 00:25:42.712
<v Speaker 3>I could maybe move on to my next idea.

00:25:42.712 --> 00:25:50.487
<v Speaker 3>But if I'd have got some indicators that suggested, oh no, he's not getting that one at all, I might go.

00:25:50.547 --> 00:25:53.473
<v Speaker 3>So, hey, brad, what do you think of what I said there?

00:25:53.473 --> 00:25:54.376
<v Speaker 3>Was that accurate?

00:25:54.376 --> 00:26:01.497
<v Speaker 3>Was that not accurate, in order to get some verbal feedback from you as to what you're thinking and feeling?

00:26:01.497 --> 00:26:07.135
<v Speaker 3>So look, when we read people's minds, with nonverbal communication, we can't.

00:26:07.135 --> 00:26:21.836
<v Speaker 3>Basically All we can do is get theories of mind that we then test out and try and get more data, and especially more verbal data from people as to how accurate we might be.

00:26:21.836 --> 00:26:28.833
<v Speaker 3>And so it's kind of disappointing, brad, because we would love to read people like a book, but people are not as simple as a book.

00:26:28.833 --> 00:26:32.161
<v Speaker 3>They're way more complex, they're way more complicated.

00:26:33.047 --> 00:26:34.269
<v Speaker 2>Well, the book is simple.

00:26:34.269 --> 00:26:35.834
<v Speaker 2>You're on the Big Success podcast.

00:26:35.834 --> 00:26:39.451
<v Speaker 2>Mark Bowden is going to talk to us about going from good, great to amazing.

00:26:39.451 --> 00:26:40.835
<v Speaker 2>When we come back from the break.

00:26:41.845 --> 00:26:45.759
<v Speaker 5>Voted global guru's number one body language professional in the world.

00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:52.727
<v Speaker 5>Bestselling author of winning body language, mark Bowden is a world renowned thought leader in body language and communication.

00:26:52.727 --> 00:26:57.356
<v Speaker 5>To learn more about Mark Bowden, please visit truthplanecom.

00:26:58.525 --> 00:26:59.669
<v Speaker 2>And we're back Big Success.

00:26:59.669 --> 00:27:09.063
<v Speaker 2>Mark Bowden, how do you see it that some people set goals that are, you know, like normal get by goals, and others set amazing goals?

00:27:09.063 --> 00:27:11.435
<v Speaker 2>You've trained a lot of people, seen a lot of people do this.

00:27:11.435 --> 00:27:13.827
<v Speaker 2>What's the difference in your mind between the two types?

00:27:14.752 --> 00:27:15.455
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay.

00:27:15.455 --> 00:27:24.115
<v Speaker 3>So here's where I go with this, and let me take this from the point of view as somebody who is let's just call me like a knowledge worker or a health worker.

00:27:24.115 --> 00:27:29.454
<v Speaker 3>You know, I try and help people by delivering knowledge to them that they're going to be able to use.

00:27:29.454 --> 00:27:48.467
<v Speaker 3>So let me just think about people in my area of work and give you my criteria for people that I think are good and people who are great, and then extrapolate that to a more general idea about people in all kinds of areas of business.

00:27:48.467 --> 00:28:14.477
<v Speaker 3>So the good people I think are able to read a lot of information, you know, take in a lot, read a lot of books, watch a lot of videos, talk to a lot of people and take all of those people's ideas and implement those ideas, you know, and that's really, that's really good, because why not work off the success of other people and be really great at learning stuff, and that will.

00:28:14.477 --> 00:28:19.071
<v Speaker 3>You'll be really good if you do that, and there's nothing wrong with being really good, right?

00:28:19.071 --> 00:28:20.796
<v Speaker 3>You'll have a good life being really good.

00:28:20.796 --> 00:28:28.277
<v Speaker 3>Okay, now the great people what they'll do is take all of that and they'll go.

00:28:28.277 --> 00:28:32.671
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but maybe the universe works like this.

00:28:32.671 --> 00:28:35.236
<v Speaker 3>Maybe they'll make a new model.

00:28:35.236 --> 00:28:41.922
<v Speaker 3>They'll come up with a new idea that nobody else has come up with, a new way of thinking about it.

00:28:41.922 --> 00:28:47.276
<v Speaker 3>They'll even go to the people that they've got their original ideas from and they'll go.

00:28:47.536 --> 00:28:48.885
<v Speaker 3>You know what you're wrong?

00:28:48.885 --> 00:28:50.450
<v Speaker 3>You're wrong about this.

00:28:50.450 --> 00:28:52.354
<v Speaker 3>This is not how it works.

00:28:52.354 --> 00:28:54.125
<v Speaker 3>It actually works like now.

00:28:54.125 --> 00:28:56.973
<v Speaker 3>They're not taking a stab at it, they're not being, they're not going.

00:28:56.973 --> 00:28:59.369
<v Speaker 3>Listen, I've read none of the books, but you're wrong.

00:28:59.369 --> 00:29:00.271
<v Speaker 3>Okay, they're going.

00:29:00.271 --> 00:29:04.175
<v Speaker 3>I've done everything Like, I've followed you completely Like, and you're.

00:29:04.175 --> 00:29:06.685
<v Speaker 3>You're wrong because this is the way it works.

00:29:06.685 --> 00:29:09.291
<v Speaker 3>And let me tell you my model for how it works.

00:29:09.291 --> 00:29:25.048
<v Speaker 3>That, for me, is is excellence and brilliance and success, but it costs, because it means you will have to say to people this is the way it works, and people will come back to you and they'll go you're an idiot and it doesn't work like that.

00:29:25.048 --> 00:29:29.007
<v Speaker 3>And and no, and the people who you respected most will go.

00:29:29.007 --> 00:29:37.824
<v Speaker 3>Well, mark, I can't be friends with you if you're going to see it like that, because you're putting yourself up against everything that I think is true and you're going.

00:29:37.824 --> 00:29:40.088
<v Speaker 3>Well, I don't, but I don't think it is true.

00:29:40.088 --> 00:29:42.595
<v Speaker 3>I think this is how it how it works.

00:29:42.595 --> 00:29:49.916
<v Speaker 3>So look, for me, it's defining a model, which is a.

00:29:49.916 --> 00:29:56.655
<v Speaker 3>You know a model is is a plan of how things work, which is not accurate, but it's helpful.

00:29:56.655 --> 00:30:01.050
<v Speaker 3>Okay, it's a way of seeing stuff that you believe is helpful.

00:30:01.050 --> 00:30:07.631
<v Speaker 3>And if you created your own model, you think it's more helpful than some of the other models that you were using.

00:30:07.631 --> 00:30:10.576
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I think brilliant people do that.

00:30:10.576 --> 00:30:18.087
<v Speaker 3>Now you know how do we extrapolate that into many, many businesses or or success areas that you could be successful?

00:30:18.087 --> 00:30:22.121
<v Speaker 3>Well, I just do the same and go, go the.

00:30:22.422 --> 00:30:27.175
<v Speaker 3>The really successful people see things in a different way, and they are.

00:30:27.596 --> 00:30:28.259
<v Speaker 3>They are not.

00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:39.165
<v Speaker 3>They are brave enough, or they're stupid enough, or aggressive enough, or or or kind enough to tell other people about that.

00:30:39.165 --> 00:30:44.698
<v Speaker 3>I've got I've got one client incredibly successful, incredibly successful.

00:30:44.698 --> 00:30:54.549
<v Speaker 3>It's founded I think it's the most what it's certainly within the top five biggest companies in Canada, one of the biggest companies in the world.

00:30:54.549 --> 00:31:02.233
<v Speaker 3>Like, when I hear him talk and the way he views the world, I'm just like, wow, why didn't I think of that?

00:31:02.233 --> 00:31:05.471
<v Speaker 3>That is so simple, it's so brilliant.

00:31:05.471 --> 00:31:11.026
<v Speaker 3>No wonder you're so successful, because nobody's thought like that.

00:31:11.026 --> 00:31:15.583
<v Speaker 3>I've never heard that before and it's so clear that it's accurate.

00:31:15.583 --> 00:31:16.846
<v Speaker 3>And here's how accurate it is.

00:31:16.846 --> 00:31:38.538
<v Speaker 3>Look how successful you're being with this company based on that, that premise, which I could have never have come up with, and you're brave enough to walk on any stage and go look everybody, this is the way it works, this is the way the world, the world of commerce, you know, should be and and is.

00:31:38.538 --> 00:31:41.808
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, I hope that makes sense to you and everybody, Brad.

00:31:41.989 --> 00:31:43.373
<v Speaker 2>No, it makes total sense.

00:31:43.373 --> 00:31:43.693
<v Speaker 2>I think.

00:31:43.693 --> 00:31:44.605
<v Speaker 2>I think it's brilliant.

00:31:44.605 --> 00:31:46.510
<v Speaker 2>Let's go to our quick fire round.

00:31:46.510 --> 00:31:53.884
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna ask you a throw out a word and you're going to tell me how do we be successful with it with a one or two word answer, all right.

00:31:53.884 --> 00:31:54.586
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:31:54.586 --> 00:31:57.931
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at relationships?

00:31:57.931 --> 00:31:58.912
<v Speaker 2>Quick answer.

00:31:59.853 --> 00:32:02.717
<v Speaker 3>Oh, tolerance.

00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Excellent word.

00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.367
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at goals?

00:32:07.367 --> 00:32:08.369
<v Speaker 2>Achieving your goals.

00:32:10.253 --> 00:32:10.693
<v Speaker 3>Keep going.

00:32:12.156 --> 00:32:12.438
<v Speaker 2>Love it.

00:32:12.438 --> 00:32:15.369
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at self development, growing yourself?

00:32:19.342 --> 00:32:20.567
<v Speaker 3>Uh explore.

00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:23.623
<v Speaker 2>Wow, nice work.

00:32:23.623 --> 00:32:25.809
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at health?

00:32:27.661 --> 00:32:29.006
<v Speaker 3>I'm not the person to ask.

00:32:32.140 --> 00:32:34.125
<v Speaker 2>Actually, I know you're the right one to ask for this one.

00:32:34.125 --> 00:32:36.432
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at enjoying life?

00:32:38.040 --> 00:32:38.763
<v Speaker 3>Oh, friends.

00:32:39.881 --> 00:32:41.775
<v Speaker 2>Love it, love it, perfect answer, all right.

00:32:41.775 --> 00:32:48.874
<v Speaker 2>Final question Number one quote or number one piece of advice you ever got on the subject of success?

00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:52.309
<v Speaker 3>I keep going back to it, keep going.

00:32:52.309 --> 00:33:04.357
<v Speaker 3>One person said to me um, uh, if I can, if I can tell you this story, brad, I was, um, I was at, I was working with somebody again very, very successful, so successful that he had.

00:33:04.357 --> 00:33:14.907
<v Speaker 3>So I live in Canada, uh, brad, and in Canada, uh, we have something called the Order of Canada, which is kind of like, uh, having an OBE, cbe, that kind of that kind of thing.

00:33:14.907 --> 00:33:19.703
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's like the, the, the nation has said you're, you're successful in some way.

00:33:19.983 --> 00:33:22.751
<v Speaker 2>It's a knighthood in a place that doesn't have knighthoods.

00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:24.384
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, absolutely.

00:33:24.384 --> 00:33:26.471
<v Speaker 3>It's a little bit new for those, for those knights.

00:33:26.471 --> 00:33:32.619
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, he was wearing his Order of Canada lapel badge, which I was new to Canada and I'd seen these around.

00:33:32.619 --> 00:33:39.171
<v Speaker 3>I'd seen these around and, and you know, maybe just like you and like a lot of people, I like a prize.

00:33:39.171 --> 00:33:43.502
<v Speaker 3>You know I like a bit of a trophy, you know I'm a collector, it's like.

00:33:43.502 --> 00:33:46.329
<v Speaker 3>So I said to him you know what I'd love one of those.

00:33:46.329 --> 00:33:48.515
<v Speaker 3>How do I, how do I get one?

00:33:48.515 --> 00:33:53.778
<v Speaker 3>Um, and it was a bit cheeky, but there was an element of absolute truth to what I was saying.

00:33:53.778 --> 00:33:57.651
<v Speaker 3>It's like, how would you get, how do you get to get one of those?

00:33:57.651 --> 00:34:02.460
<v Speaker 3>And he said, mark, stick with it, just stick with it.

00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:09.557
<v Speaker 3>And again, it was one of those things of like you keep going, you keep going on it.

00:34:09.557 --> 00:34:12.893
<v Speaker 3>So it's my best advice, brad Keep going, keep going.

00:34:14.864 --> 00:34:15.367
<v Speaker 2>Mark Bowden.

00:34:15.367 --> 00:34:16.168
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for your time.

00:34:16.168 --> 00:34:17.893
<v Speaker 2>This is the Big Success podcast.

00:34:17.893 --> 00:34:18.635
<v Speaker 2>I'm Brad Sugars.

00:34:18.635 --> 00:34:19.840
<v Speaker 2>We're going to be back next week with more success for you.

00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:24.534
<v Speaker 2>And that's the Big Success podcast for today.

00:34:24.534 --> 00:34:29.333
<v Speaker 2>Hopefully you took a lot of notes and hopefully you learned a bunch and hopefully you're going to take action on it and refer people.

00:34:29.333 --> 00:34:34.210
<v Speaker 2>Remember, if you haven't subscribed, click that subscribe button now.

00:34:34.210 --> 00:34:36.697
<v Speaker 2>Be with us every week on the Big Success podcast.

00:34:36.697 --> 00:34:37.420
<v Speaker 2>Bs, brad Sugars, big Success.

00:34:37.420 --> 00:34:40.550
<v Speaker 2>Take action.

00:34:40.550 --> 00:34:41.875
<v Speaker 2>Check the show notes for all the links.

00:34:41.875 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you all the links for everything that you speak ahead.

00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:47.456
<v Speaker 2>Make sure you follow through and keep the learning going.

00:34:47.456 --> 00:34:48.280
<v Speaker 2>Remember, you got to grow into your goals.

00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:53.146
<v Speaker 2>I'll speak to you next time on the Big Success podcast.