Rachelle Vartanian: From Special Education Teacher to CommunityLeader

Welcome to Why Not Me Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide?
Hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee.
Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories.
Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears.
These real life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that
you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower
everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness,
unwavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health.
Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the
world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Toni Mantur.
Welcome to Why Not May Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide.
Joining us today is Rochelle Bartannian. She is a visionary
founder and president of the Living and Learning Enrichment Center,
a Michigan based nonprofit dedicated to empowering teens and adults
with autism and other developmental disabilities. Inspired by her son's
autism diagnosis and the lack of social and vocational opportunities
available to him, she founded the center in twenty fifteen
to provide innovative programs that foster independence, social skills, and
meaningful employment. Under her leadership, the organization has grown from
a small library meeting room to a twelve acre campus,
offering over thirty programs and impacting hundreds of lives across Michigan.
She is a respected ADA advocate and a beacon of
hope for families navigating neurodiversity. It's a pleasure to have
her on. So before we dive into our episode, we'll
be back with an uninterrupted show right after a word
from our sponsors. Thanks for coming on.
Well, thank you.
Oh it's my pleasure.
So if you would tell us a little bit about
yourself and how you got started.
So, I having no profit, and we work specifically with
adults that have special needs. We started with autism and
now it's really anyone. I mean, you could have an
exact You don't even have to have a diagnosis. If
you just need some support, you're more than welcome to come.
I started with one program and we've got over thirty
different programs and we see about three hundred people a
week now from nine from nine different counties and eighty
seven different cities.
They're coming to our programs.
Wow.
That's great, and that's in Michigan. Correct, Yes, what part
of Michigan are you in?
Right on the border. It's literally between Northville and novayh Michigan.
Oh okay, yeah, I understand when you first started this it.
Was kind of a big leap for you.
Yeah.
So prior to this, I had been a special education
teacher for twenty years, but I worked with kids that
had severe behavioral issues. So right out of college, I
worked at a lockup center for adjudicated youth and I
did that for ten years.
I loved it. I mean, for whatever reason, that was
my passion.
I went back, I got up master's and ed p Syke,
and I really wanted to focus on helping women prisoners
reunite with their kids, but got another plant from me.
My youngest son was diagnosed with what was then called
Asperger syndrome with the form of autism, and I had
at that point what was going on is I was
moved to a high school but with kids with severe
behavioral issues, and if they didn't make it in my room,
they would go to jail hospital day treatment. And they
didn't know what to do with the kids with high
functioning autism, so they were putting them in my room,
and it was so inappropriate. Our kids are walking targets
be bullied, and now they're in a classroom with kids
with severe behavioral issues. So what was going through my
mind is my son's never going to make it the
he'll know ever survived this.
So I went back to school again.
I got a second master's in autism because I kept thinking,
you know, I need to do something I don't know.
How to do.
So it gave me a little bit of confidence, and
I felt like if I could know everything I can
about autism, you know, it would only help me. So
I got the degree, and then I started running social
skill programs in a library. Every Sunday, I would rent
the Farmington Public Library a room and I would have
these It was pretty much friendship classes because a lot
of our kids, you know, have trouble making funts, so
it was just helping them connect with each other in
great friendships. And I did it for about two years
and then I just thought to myself, one day, well
it really wasn't one day. I'd been thinking about it
a lot that if I don't do something Jurassic, my
son is going to be like every student I've ever
worked with who I'm talking to them when they get
out of school and talking to their parents, and they're
saying to me that they're living in the basement playing
video games and they don't know what to do.
There's no hope.
The other part for me was that I just got
divorce and I don't really have family, and I kept thinking,
if I die, this kid's gonna be home homeless. So
I took a huge leap of faith and I quit
my job. I sold my home. I had a beautiful
home my ex husband I had built and I sold
it and I moved us into a home that was
very humble. When we moved out of a year later,
they bulldozed it down. That's how bad it was.
But it allowed me to open the doors a living
and learning.
And now actually we're celebrated our ten year anniversary. We
have one hundred and sixty two people that work for us. Now.
I mean, it's crazy what happened.
Yeah, that's great. So when you first started, you always
have plans. Did it wind up growing faster than what
you thought or did it take a little while to
develop to get where you are today? Yeah?
It never goes as fast for me as I needed too.
To be totally honest, my goal the whole time was
independent living, you know, and I didn't know how I
was going to get there. I didn't know what it
was going to look like, but I knew I just
had to start. So I started with a program and
I called it Friday Night Hangout, where every single Friday
you could come here and for three hours and you know,
we were again. It was kind of like what I
did in the library, creating friendships. We'd order pizza and
you know, karaoke and video games and just trying to
help them connect with each other. And it grew, and
then I added a Saturday and I hang out, and
you know, then I started, you know a lot of
special interests. So I did, like gamers Club and dungeons
and dragon clubs, just start adding all these clubs to it.
So adding the club did it grow from the are
What happened was.
I started looking at all of them, and I started
thinking none of them were working, and whatever this looks
like for me to create for independent living, I have
to help them work. So I started creating. At that point,
it was just me working. I had no money hire anyone,
so I'm taking you know, small groups to different businesses
and doing vocational skill building with them.
And then I was able to hire someone.
So that gets bigger and we outgrew the little storefront
we were at. We moved to another location it was
a little bit bigger, and it was within three months.
It was like the world heard about us and people
were coming from everywhere to these programs. So I was
in the same position where I have to move again.
You know, we can't hold all these people. You know,
I wasn't getting a paycheck and Northville, Nova area is
very expensive, so I didn't know what I was going
to do.
That's a good situation to be in, but yet a
bad situation. So what happened next.
I was in a meeting one day and this man said,
you guys should buy the Don Massey estate that's down
the street if you're from this area, like it's an
iconic piece of property. And it was up for sale
for three and a half million dollars and the prior
owner was Don Massey and he was the Cadillac King.
He owned Moore Kellic dealerships than anyone in the world.
Joe Lewis had lived in this house for a short
period of time, and you know, we laughed. But one
day I was just driving by the property and I thought,
I'm just going to call the realtor and see if
I can walk that property. So now I have two
employees and I told them to come with me. But
I got there before anyone else, and I was standing
on the porch waiting for my two employees and the realtor,
and I just I had this moment where I was
looking across the street. You know, the sun shining. It's fall,
so I can see there's no leaves on the trees.
I can see across the street and I'm standing there
and I'm seeing these apartments across the street. I drove
by those apartments a million times, but for whatever reason,
at that moment, I just had this feeling that this
is how you're going to do it. You're going to
help people live there, and this is going to be
home base. And as we were walking the property with
the reel stair, I could picture every micro business we
had ever discussed. So when we got done, I said,
I'm in and I just kind of did what I'm
doing now. I told my story to anyone that would listen.
I went to.
Quantus club, rotary clubs, you know, churches, you know, anyone
that would hear me.
Wow, that seems like a really great plan. So as
things moved along, how did it all develop and fall together?
For you?
Northfield has a little magazine, so they did a little
story on me, and then I took it and I
went to every news station I could, and finally a
local news station did a little peace on it, and
someone saw it. They were in the hospital, they were
really sick, and he told his assistant, I can't remember
this woman's name, but she sold her home to make
this happen, and she has a pumath autism. And the
assistant found me and I met him, and I just
kept emailing and texting and calling, you know, just keeping
in touch. And about a year later, he started getting healthier,
and I asked him if he'd walked the proper with me.
I have to admit, in my head, I was like,
you've got one chot here, and I was trying to
sell it, and so pointing across the street these apartments
and why and you know, I'm over here, I'm going
to have I'll packas chickens, I'm gonna have a bee farm,
I'm explaining everything, and we got halfway through and he said,
this has to happen. He said, I'm going to give
your first half million dollars. But I'm a businessman. He goes,
I'm not paying for the whole thing. You have to
have skin in the game, so you have to raise
the rest. He goes, I know you're going to make
this happen because of what you sacrificed. So it took
me another year to raise the rest of it for
the DOB payment, and we got the keys January twenty
twenty and so now it's five years later, though it's
been a really crazy journey.
Wow, that's great.
Just shows you never know, have to put one foot
in front of the other and see what happens.
Exactly.
Now, five years later, how many employees.
I think we've broke up to one hundred and sixty two.
And the reason is it's not a lot of overhead.
The reason is every time three more people come to us,
we just say, members, I have to hire someone, because
really the ratio is about one to three. I mean,
I'm sure it could be one to five, but we're
really careful. So yeah, and we've got I think it's
five satellites right now, we have a soap factory.
We have a little store.
It's an artisan market and we sell people's work that
have special needs, or if you don't have special needs,
you can sell your work there. And then we have
down the street where we do our ABA and psyco therapy.
So we just really have expanded.
Yeah, that's just so good. You're helping so many different people.
Now, it sounds like you focus on autism, yet you
allow others to come in as well, which is great.
So what does a typical day look like at your establishment?
You're just you know, having some trouble, you know, maybe
you're having anxiety or something. I mean, we welcome everyone.
I'm not asking for diagnosis or anything like that.
Just come.
But I'd say now fifty percent have autism. The other
half have I don't know, maybe down syndrome or serubra
palsy or ADHD. So a typical day Monday through Fridays
and this is this is super cool. You know that
little vocational program I started. Now we've got a program
for the most independent where we've got over two hundred
people paying jobs. And then if you need a little
bit more support, we've got our vocational program where we
have gosh, probably one hundred and fifty business partners in
the community. So Monday through Friday, these young adults come
to us and it's one job coach three to four
of the members. They go to these different job sites
and the goal is for them to find the job
they love and then move into job development where we
get you a paying job.
Wow, that's great, and that's what I call real progress.
But to be completely honest, ninety percent probably stay there
and I just whatever they want and what the parent wants.
I respect.
You know, a lot of it is well, if I
get a paying job, I'm kicked off Social Security. So
whatever works for you. So we've got that and that
is our biggest program. And then if you need more support,
we've got something called Foundations Vocational Foundations where you're at
our campus half the day and you know, we've got
utpack us and chickens and bunnies and bees and vegetable gardens,
so you're doing that and the other half the day you're.
Out in the community.
And then we have one if you need even more support,
more one on one support where we have a guesthouse
and they're cooking in there and learning to watches, learning
to do skills that will help them be as independent
as possible. They're still in the community twice a day,
but for really short periods of time. That's during the day.
We also have cooking classes going on during the day.
You know, like I said, we've got our artists in
market that's going on during the day. We've got our
aba and psycle therapy going on, the soap factories that
all that's going on. And then in the evenings we've
got it could be you know, art classes are going on,
dungeons and dragon classes. We've got twenty groups, you know
where it's twenty in older groups. So we just have
all these social programs in the evenings.
Wow, that's a tremendous amount of things. What age groups
are there?
My focus has always been towards adults, and I would
say probably the majority of people are in their twenties
or thirties. We have people that have senior citizens that
are in there. And I've got one program I call
it the Zone, and it really is what I was
doing in the library, you know, with that young group,
I just couldn't get rid of it. With such a
special group. So I still have that program. I would
say it's people that are in middle.
School with all the activities, all the diverse people you
have there. What are some of the challenges you face?
Along with that comes a diverse range of needs. So
what challenges do you face? And then how do you
tackle it and move forward?
I hate saying this, but I feel like it's always money.
I feel like, you know, I want to do something, well,
you're going to have get money. And I feel like
I keep saying to my people like there's nothing else
I can sell. You know, I've got nothing else I
can sell. Now, you know, we always get through it.
Once you get to I think it's one hundred employees,
you have to start paying health insurance. Well, okay, now
I'm paying health insurance, which needed to happen. I support it,
but it costs money to do that. And then there's
less money going towards programs. And that's always an issue,
always trying to find funding. And then employees. I've got.
The employees I have are amazing and they're so passionate,
but I've got a waiting list of I think it's
almost a two year waiting list for my vocational program,
and I can't get people off that unless I can
hire people, so that would be the other issue.
Money seems to be always an issue. So if money
is the issue, like you're saying, how do you address that?
What do you do to correct it?
So for me, what I do is I go to
everything I can. Anyone wants to meet, I bring them out.
I probably work more at night than I work any
other time because I'm just constantly trying to meet people,
introduce them to what we're doing. And I never ask
people for money. What I do is I'll say, you know,
if you know anyone that you feel would want to
support us, So that's how I do it. No, we
get grants and everything, but the most money I've ever
been able to bring in it's always been from one
individual who wants to support us. So that's pretty much
what I do.
Yeah, I totally get that. Now, what are your goals?
What do you see on the horizon in the next
three to five years independent living?
So there's apartments for sale, maybe a mile from the center,
and it doesn't have to be those apartments, but that's
my focus right now is buying these apartments and anyone
can live there. The key is this ninety percent of
my people don't drive. I've gone to different places where
people have done some sort of independent living, and I
appreciate everything everyone is. You know, I look at it
and go, oh my god, that's great. But it seems
like most people will go, Okay, we're going to get
a farm, we're going to get land. But the thing
is then they're isolated. You've got to be in a
place where they can walk to things. Otherwise they're not
doing anything. So this apartment is walkable to everything. And
that's a great thing about where we're at too. We're
in the heart of the city, but we're on this
little island, so you know, we're really safe. But they
can walk to everything. So that's why I want it.
But my vision is anyone can live there, so it's inclusive.
But if you have any type of need, or you're
senior citizen, because our people will be senior citizens at
some point, we'll give you the support you need. And
then you know, we do ABA and psychotherapy. So I
would move that staff there. And I'm just making this up,
but let's say you're having an issue I don't know,
putting dishes in the dishwasher that my person would go
there and help you master it in your own place
so that you can be as independent as possible.
Right, Yeah, that's great. Now, some autistic people are well
known for them meldowns. Yes, yeah, So how do you
handle that? I mean, I've talked with some ABA therapists
that go to the home and sometimes they feel like
they have to leave because it might not be a
safe environment because of the meltdowns.
Yeah.
How do you go.
About vetting anyone that you might work with or have
an ABA work with.
You mean, checking whether they could come to living learning
or not like their behavior or.
Yeah that, or if you wanted to send somebody out
to the home to help them.
Okay, So this is where I fee.
It's just funny looking back at my life and going, well,
maybe this is why this happened.
You know, I worked with kids that had severe behavioral.
Issues for eighteen years of my teaching career, and I
can really gauge. I'm a good gauge at that. But
if you have an emotional issue or defiance, I wish
you luck and I'm going to help you find someone.
But this isn't the place for you. Because my promise
is to the people that come there that you're going
to be safe. We still occasionally have, you know, behavioral issues.
We had one today. When it happens, you know, of course,
we try to de escalate and make sure everyone and saye.
We typically will say to the individual, you need to
take a break. I'm not going to kick you out,
but you need to take a break. And whether you
go to your own doctor or you know, our therapist,
but you need to get to a place where that
person is signing off saying you know what, They're in
a good place and they're ready to come back.
So that's pretty much how I've done it.
And right now I don't have any of my therapists
going to people's homes. What I was saying is when
we get those apartments, though, I would have to go
into their apartments.
Okay, yeah, that totally makes sense. Now, you have so
many things going on, how do you break it down
so there's no issues. You have so many moving parts,
and anytime you have that many things going on, something happens.
So how do you keep it going smooth?
Well?
I hire amazing people, people that you know want to
be there. We have a lot of retired teachers, We
have a lot of people now that are working for
us that are therapists, or they are ABA therapists, and
maybe they're just job coaches. They've decided that, you know,
that's more of their passion. But we put a lot
of layers in place too, so it's not just oh,
you're going to the job site with your job coach.
I've got people overseeing them, supporting them. You know, is
there anything that you need? Is there an issue that
we can help you with? And then I've got people
supporting them. So I think that's it. I hope I
answered your question.
Yeah, I think you covered it pretty well.
Now do you have anyone that comes in that looks
over what you do? Yeah, people that are from the
county or the state or the city that just make
sure that everything's going the way it should be going.
Yeah.
So with all that red tape, what does that.
Entail well to get?
You know, and I'm that parent too, I mean I
come remember taking a loan out once to pay for
my son's services. So this stuff is expensive. So what
I did, it took a while, and they don't make
it easy, is I went to Oakland County, which is
where a lot of our members come from, and then
I went to Wayne County and was able to get
a contract with them so that these services are paid
for for the families that live in those counties. But
when you do that, you put yourself in a position
where it's fine.
Where they do.
They get to double check on everything and you know,
audit you which I welcome it.
So, yeah, I do have to do that.
They come in, I think once a year they come in,
but they're always checking on things and auditing offs and
it's all good.
I welcome it.
Yeah that's great. Now you mentioned your son. How old
is he now? He's twenty four now, so does he
attend there as well?
So this is this is the dichotomy of this whole thing.
I did all this right because I was so worried
about my own kid, and he wants nothing to do
with it. He's like, I joke all the time that
he's the autistic snob. He's like, yeah, it's great for
those people. I don't need it, you know, he's that
group of population. I respect it completely that he doesn't
want really. I mean, he'll sometimes tell people, but he
doesn't want people to know. He feels like when people know,
they treat him differently.
So you know, I get it.
Yeah, I get it as well. I spoke with a
guy from London. He's autistic, big guy. I probably weighs
on a two hundred and fifteen pounds, in good shape.
He says, you know, I can tell someone I'm autistic
and they'll always question it. But if I tell him
that I have cancer, they're going to say, oh, how
can I help you?
Yeah, And my son says the same thing. And my
son is like six' two and he's almost two hundred.
Pounds he's a big.
Guy that just happened to something similar just happened to.
Me my.
Son my next neighbor is like he is an avid gun.
SHOOTER i mean he goes to the gun. CLUBS i
mean he's very, responsible nothing like, that you. Know but
my son said to, HIM i would love to, learn you,
know would you take me to the gun range and teach.
Me he was very excited the. Neighbor but then his
wife later, said has killed. Me she, said you know,
WHAT i don't think it's a good.
Idea you.
Know you know what happened With, columbine another shooting that
was here In. MICHIGAN i just, went, oh my, God
like he's being. Stereotyped you, know it just killed, me but,
yeah you, know it.
Happens, yeah, unfortunately there's a certain perception that comes along
with Auto it's. Unfortunate but until people get better understanding about, it,
yeah it's going to. Continue it's getting, better yet we
still have a long way to.
GO i think it's getting better, too AND i think
we have a long way to go. Too that was
always another THOUGHT i had BECAUSE i was in the
heart of the.
City you, know we're out and about.
Everywhere we've got jobs, downtown AND i kept thinking to,
myself maybe not this, generation but the next, generation it's
going to be so much easier for people to accept
this because they're around.
It, yeah that's all we can hope because if you
look at the, sixties the, seventies, eighties and even the,
nineties autism was not talked about in most. Part it
really wasn't even thought. About, no let alone have conversations like.
This.
No i've spoken with several people that have been diagnosed
autistic in their thirties, forties being diagnosed later in. Life
they would look at it and, say you, know now
that we're looking, back there was probably a lot of
people that they grew up with that were. Autistic, now they,
say being diagnosed later in, life they look back and
they're having a great life and they have a better
understanding of what's going.
On so are you saying that those, people once they
found out it was kind of, like oh my, god
that's why.
Exactly OH i get, it.
Okay.
Yeah they would make references of having quirky people around
them while they were growing up in their, schools and
now that they've been, diagnosed they understand autism. More they
realized they were dealing with autistic people at that point
but didn't realize.
It.
Yeah a lot of times when we do, intakes you,
know so if you want to come to our, center
it's an interview. Basically you, know we're doing it And
i'm looking at the Dead i'm thinking you have autism,
too you.
Know.
Yeah.
Yeah i've spoken with several that have found out later
in life they were autistic only because they found out
their kids.
Were, yeah so we know it's a genetic, then you.
Know, YES i believe it definitely can. BE i had
a lady that had an autistic, child and she was
beating herself up with guilt because DID.
I do anything, Wrong what DID i? Do and all the.
Unknown, yeah then when she became pregnant, again she really
watched her. Diet she did everything by the, book and
then the child was, born no, vaccinations just took every
precaution she. Could, ultimately the second child turned out to
be autistic as.
Well, Right ultimately it didn't.
Matter, Yeah i've heard those stories before. Too, yeah you,
KNOW i was a special education. TEACHER i think at
that point i'd been teaching eight years when he was.
Diagnosed i'd never heard the word asperger. SYNDROME i didn't
know what it. Was and this is kind of interesting.
Too now with THE, dsm they don't Have, asperger's everything's.
Autism my son hates. It he feels That asperger's describes some.
Better that's.
Interesting most of the people That i've spoken with prefer
the spectrum because that way they can dictate what level they're,
on so people can understand they're like everybody.
Else it's just they're.
Autistic that's the thing about this whole, thing, too is
that you, KNOW i was telling you about the job
skills Training i've got for you, know because it is
such a spectrum for people that the most support all
the way to people have master's, DEGREES i, mean trying
to service all of them doing a good. Job but
people like my, son like he doesn't want to be
with people that need more, support you, Know AND i
respect that.
Too.
Yeah.
Absolutely also the fact that you're helping people find, jobs
and that's a huge thing in the autistic.
Community.
YEAH i think it's above eighty percent that are either
unemployed or.
Underemployed, WELL i remember when we first started doing, it
it was ninety percent unemployment right for adults with.
Autism SO i don't know what it is, now but you're,
RIGHT i think it's about the same eighty to. Ninety
we did have an academy and It. Academy we had
it for five years and it was. Exceptional we partnered
With Cisco. Networking WHAT i did is they had a
program it was six, months and then we just stretched it,
out slowed it. Down they were getting the same. CERTIFICATE
i mean they had to take the. TASK i want to,
say like a ton of.
All we got jobs for them Like Co, America Ford Motor,
COMPANY i mean great, jobs BUT i could never justify
it to my board because not enough of them we're getting.
Employed, yeah And another thing an employee has to take
into account is once they find an autistic individual that
fits the, bill that person is, very very. Loyal.
Yeah so that's one of the things we do, too is,
that you, Know i've said that we have over two
hundred people that we have gotten paying jobs. For we
do a really good job educating the employer and go
Back it's not just, Like, okay we gotten the job
by as much as we need. To we'll go back
in there and how's it, going you, know asking the
employer and the.
Employee and it's.
Funny a lot of times the, employee the person with,
autism thinks everything's, fine and player's, like, yeah it's, good
except you, know maybe this one little.
Thing so we still.
Hope.
Yeah i've talked with several people that have a company
to help autistic people find work and then work with
the employer to make sure that they can figure out
what they need to, do because so many employers think
to hire autistic people they have to spend thousands and
thousands of dollars and it's not so. RIGHT i Had
Temple grandon on talking about. Jobs she, said just give
me a pilot checklist of WHAT i have to do
AND i can do it.
Right the other thing we see is that they're afraid
that if they have to let them, go there's a.
Lawsuit so that's the other thing we. Hear, yeah, YEAH
i can see that.
Right so in, closing what would you like to tell
the listeners that you think is important that they hear
from the knowledge that you've gained from your journey within
the autistic.
Community, WELL i know a lot of parents want to do.
Something you, know it's you, know every PERIOD i talk
to is one specific. Thing you, KNOW i, want you, know,
whatever dating or jobs or AND i guess What i'm,
saying whether it's to the person that's receiving services or
to the, parent just do. It there's never going to
be a good. Time it's never going to be well next,
Year i'll make this much. Money if you really want
to do, it just do, it because it's not going
to happen if you don't and time goes by and
you're going to be sitting there and, like well now
it's too late to do.
Something, yeah that totally makes. Sense, well this has been,
great great, conversation great. INFORMATION i really appreciate you taking the.
Time to come.
On thank.
You for having me.
On it's been my. Pleasure thanks.
Again thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule
to listen to our show. Today we hope you enjoyed
it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to. You
if you know someone who has a story to, share
tell them to contact us at WHY Notomt. World one last,
thing spread the word about Why Not, me our, conversations
our inspiring, guests the.
Show you are not alone in this. World