#333 - Ben Rector on How He Got Snoop Dogg To Rap On A Song With Him + How Much Kenny G Charged Him To Be On His New Album + Building A Giant ‘Muppet’ for His Album Cover

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Speaker 1: Great episode with Ben Rector, episode three thirty three, and this guy plays massive shows, just known for how good of a singer, how good of a performer he is. It was super pumped him over the house. Ben was born at Tulsa studied piano growing up. He talked about how, like everybody else, he quit playing piano. Did we put on the thing? How violent a singer he is? Is that on here? Yeah? He starts talking about that, about how loud he speaks. Yeah, he talks to me, it's like I just sing so violently. It doesn't look like a guy who would sing violently. He looks like a guy who just sing a pleasant little bitty But his new record is really good and that's really wise here um. And also at the end we kind of talk about and playing golf and how he really wasn't a golfer but now he's really really good. So, Ben Rector, this is fun for me, and I think you'll I just think you'll like his album. I think you'll like the music that's already out right now too. You know, such such fun, such positive music, Ben Rector, I'm gonna play it for you now. Anything you want to say, Mike before we it. I think that's the first time I heard about him. He sold out a show here in town, like a big amphitheater, and I was like, who's been Rector but a big amphitheater and I hadn't heard of him. The Snoop Dogg story is funny that you're hearing this. How he got Snoop Dogg on a record? Yeah, it's great because it doesn't you know, like been Rector and Snoop Dogg together. Hopefully I'm introducing you to an artist that you love from here out. This has been Rector. Enjoy Hello, Oh sounds sounds good? Yeah, we really mashed it to your voice. So we took some clips to your voice. We kind of put him through. We made the we condense the mic to your voice, so should feel perfect. If I was singing, I would just I would would blow this up. It's so so loud, all right? Do you need it? You need it down your volumes right there. I'm just the amount of sound that I admit when I sing is embarrassing. Are you a loud singer? So loud? I've performed with a few really violently loud singers, John Party, I don't know if you know that is kind of heat. It's scary at how he's not angry, but he treats his voice like it did something bad to him. Yeah, I I just don't. Um. I don't know why it is, but I just I am very loud and I'm not it's not even aggressive necessary. It doesn't sound like that if you heard it recorded, But if you heard me, like in person, you'd be like, wow, that's just a lot of noise. Has that always in the case, or yeah, it has been since you started thinking? Yeah, I don't and I don't know. I don't know why that is. What's what's the deal with your your music prowess? Meaning did you have a family that was music early on? No, I'm from Oklahoma and my dad worked at banks and my mom's a psychologist, and nobody in my family is like it's not a thing. That's like, oh, you take after your uncle, like my dad's saying in choir, but it's not a thing. And so I don't really understand it. And I picked it up late in life, like I played piano as a kid, like took lessons but quit like every kid, and then like picked up guitar and maybe like eighth grade or something, and I just loved it. It just was all into it. So who put the guitar on your hand? I'm trying to remember this. I don't. I took like I took like a little bit of lessons again when I was a kid and quit, and I don't remember why I picked it back up. I think maybe I just wanted to. And then I went to like a summer camp and every counselor played guitar, and I was like, that's awesome. So then after that I started being like I'm gonna be into this or your parents the parents didn't that exposed you to a lot of different things, seeing what would catch. I think they um, music wasn't really a thing. They exposed me too, and they did expose the other stuff that I played a bunch of sports growing up, like all through school piano lessons though, yeah that's true, that's true, but they but it wasn't like, um, when I picked music up again, it was really more like, Wow, I really love this. It wasn't my parents being like do you want to get into music again? It was just like I don't know what it was about it, but it just like hit me probably like really in my ninth grade year, I was like, Wow, I'm like, I'm really into this. But other than that, I was just like I played sports, and you know, it wasn't really a thing that my family was like, you should check this out. It just kind of like happened when you say you played sports where you're pretty good athlete where, Because what it's really annoying about a lot of people in town is that not only are they great in music, but they're also great in something else. There are some of us who weren't great at anything, and then there's some of you who were glad at too many things, and the average it averages out, but it's some of you get to keep all of it. So I would say this, I was as a late bloomer, and I'm probably more athletic now than I was in high school. I was not like a game changer athlete. It wasn't like, oh, like I'm in the game and now the team's like really winning. But if we played like pick up sports, you would be like, you're more athletic than I thought you were. But I would so when I was in high school, like I played high school sports not particularly well. I quit everyth senior year because I was just doing music, but I was not, Like I wasn't like changing the game for anybody. But I think that's also because I was playing sports that I was never going to be good at. Like I played like football and baseball. I was not not a big person now, but I definitely wasn't then. I'm not fast. So I think if I had, like if I had played golf for like tennis or something, and maybe could have been like, oh, you're like pretty good at this. But I didn't play anything like that, So like I would say, I'm coordinated, but I'm not, you know, like a guy like you know, I think they're especially in country, there are guys who are like legitimate, like proper like capital a athletes. I wasn't like that, but am like maybe sneaky good for pickup sports. When you say you play music in high school your senior year, what does that mean, Like, were you playing around Yeah, so acoustic stuff for a while. Yeah, so I had we had a band that we formed for a Battle of the Bands named Euromart. It's terrible, It's really it's not what's the basis of euro Because you're living in Tulsa, Oklahoma, there's not a lot of euro that okay, so uh we love as every kid my age did. That was when like, you know, some of pop music was like cold Play, there's like a sort of British rock wave, and um, we liked that music. And there was a small like would you call it like an imports store? It was like, um, a European like very small grocery store kind of in a part of town that there was a restaurant we ate at next then, and so we need we had to come up with a name for the band because we had entered into this ballot bands put on by the local newspaper, and we were like, well, we need a name for our submission. And so I was like, what about euro Martin. We all agree it's not It's not great, man, it's not great. What's funny? As you ever in Oklahoma? I know the part I know. And so we we we played shows, we like made an EP and did that, and then I, you know, I was I started performing more in high school and then in college was when I was like I'm like really doing this. So but I was like you know that year, we like you know, we weren't playing like in bars all the time. But like we played around Tulsa a bunch, like our our friends would follow us around. It was that kind of thing. So when did Euromart split? When you actually move off or yeah, you know, we split up and we went to we went to college different places. Mostly we played one reunion show no big deal. Um. It was hilarious that and the whole my whole like career of being a young artist was always I would play it like, you know, a bar slash bar venue, and nobody knew who I was at the bar, and then a whole bunch of people would come and they'd get excited, and then nobody would buy booze because it was a bunch of like nineteen year olds who were all like pretty straight laced. So we played at a bar called nineteen seventy four and Tulsa for the Euromart reunion show. They're stoked because it's sold out the bar. People are like, this is incredible, man. And then of course, like at the end of the night, I'm getting a stern talking to by the manager being like we didn't sell anything. I was like, I'm sorry, man, I don't know. Let's tell you. Everyone's like a kid here were you the lead singer, and was your role from man I was from in yes, I yeah, and I at that point I'm not a great instrumentalist now, but I picked up piano late and guitar, like I was fine. But it wasn't like watch Me Shred. I was like, you know, we had other guys in the band that were a little better than I was. Did you learn something about the band dynamic then that made you reconsider being in a band later or made you just want to be a solo artist? You know? Um it? I don't. It wasn't really like after euro Mart, I was like, I'm not going to be in a band. I think the people when I was in college and I started like touring a little bit, the people that I saw like ahead of me, we're all solo artists, and I think I realized, Um, I loved playing with some of the guys in euro Mart, but like I think, I was like, I'm probably supposed to be like a solo artist because you know, I loved like John Mayer and whoever, and that just made more sense to me. Um, And like I played a lot of shows alone. It wasn't really like always a band thing. Your mark literally was reformed for the Battle of the Bands because we thought it'd be fun. It was just like a fun side project. But here's a clip of one of the songs from EP. This is euro mart I'm just kidding. I was like, oh gosh, where did you find you don't have that? That That would have been awesome. So you you go when you're from Tulsa, Are you from Tulsa Proper? Or because my wife is from, um, you know a suburb of Tulsa. Yes, so are you from Tulsa Tulsa? From Tulsa proper? My family, UM, my sisters are a lot older than I am. And so the first two years of my life and then their whole life, we lived in a really small town west of Oklahoma City called El Reno, which is like a proper small town. It's like cattle and ranchers and us, um, not us like we were the other people, but like it's just not a big town. And so they moved to Tulsa, UM when I was two and we lived there ever since. So, just like suburban Tulsa. You decided to go to the University of Arkansas. Why was it something at that school? Was a because it was close my sister, my middle sister, went there and loved it. And then I which is really funny because in hindsight, I'm pretty like, um, I'm a little O. C D like want to do a good job at stuff. And for whatever reason, college I wasn't stressed about it. I didn't apply to very many places I applied to like oh U O s U in Arkansas, I think, and um, I did reasonably well on the air the A C. T. And so Arkansas. I was like, do you want to come here for like a great scholarship? And I was like, yeah, sure, let's do it. Um. And so I was familiar with it because of my sister and I had visited there and really liked it. And then when I, uh I got that scholarship, I was like, this seems like the thing to do. And then my my best friend from high school also went there. We were roommates. He was in euro martin a big deal um of euro mart fame Chris Wiley. But uh so it was great. It was felt like it just felt like where I was supposed to be and it was awesome. So you're now in college where there were more minded people, you know, and Tulsa there are people, but they're not close to you. They're kind of spread out, and some of them hack have left to go pursue it. But at the University of Arkansas, are any major college, you have a lot of people there just to do music. Did you find more of you type people there that inspired you to to do music? You know? It's actually interesting is I studied business there and I started doing music like on the weekends pretty much. Um. And it's interesting because I think there was one second where I was like, should I move to Nashville and go to Belmont? And I think I was. It actually was really beneficial for me to be at a school that wasn't primarily musical, because I was it was an interesting thing to people, like it was very helpful kind of in like my music spreading that basically like second semester of freshman year, people are like, well, there's a guy on campus that's like kind of doing music. That was a novel thing. And so I think it's spread a little quicker than if I had been at a music school where it's like literally every person who goes to Berkeley is like, I'm trying to do this too, and so that I was doing it like passibly was very novel in Fayetteville, and there there's a lot of great musicians there, but it wasn't like like I would practice in the music building and there were some guys that I played music with, but I wasn't like in the music scene in Fayetville. I was literally just like a Walton College of Business students and then on Thursdays I would leave and go play shows. What were you studying business? Like? What was the business plan? I don't I don't know. I think a lot of it was my parents are very practical and if I had been like I'm gonna drop out of schools do music, my mom would have like probably like broken my legs in real life, and I'm like, you can't do this, um, And so I don't know. I I didn't feel drawn to study music. UM at Arkansas. I can't site read. I know, like chord theory and like musical theory, but like I never learned to like site read music. And I did you know. I took a songwriting class there, but it wasn't like I should be studying this. And honestly, man, I just loved it so much. I was stealing time from every thing else, Like I'd go to the music building at night and in between classes and I'd skip class, Like it was just like a passion thing for me, and so I didn't feel like why I should be studying music. I was just like, why I'm at college, I'll get a degree, um, And business seemed like as good a thing as any um, but I music was like separate from that almost. I want to come back to this place, I want to jump around a bit, and I do want to talk about the new album, which will spend some time on. But I was talking to Mike beforehand and I said, hey, because I've heard the stuff that you've released from it, I've seen a lot of the promo stuff that you do because I'm a stalker and I love you so much, But um, how did you get snooped? How does that come together? Do you reach out? Do you pay them? What's the deal? Yeah? So, um, you know, I'm usually a pessimist and like it's hard for me to like be optimistic about stuff. I have like high expectations for my work, but then I'm not like a hype man for myself. And for whatever reason, man, on this record, I've just had this calm that I've never had before, and I've just been like, I think it's gonna work, and I know what that means. But so when I wrote that song, when I finished it, I was just like, I really want Snoop to be on this song, and I think he's gonna do it, and that's it's so so unlike me. And so basically I called my manager Greg and I said in the song, I was like, we gotta get Snooped to wrap on this, and he was like, Okay, I guess I'll try to track him down. UM. So we talked to his I think manager named Kevin, and he was like, I like the song, but before we talked about anything, gotta make sure Snoop likes the song. And then my new found optimism, I was like, he's gonna love it. I didn't say that, but I was like, I think I like it. So Snoop liked it, and then we did. We did pay him some U S dollars as you do um rappers like rappers need to be paid. It's a thing and and and but honestly, like, there's other features on the record, and I was just like, that sounds fun to just like have people on your songs because I feel like people in hip hop do that so well and it's it's fun for listeners. You're like, oh, like I love these two people. This is great, and so uh, I thought it would be super funny to get snooped one just because my ninth grade self, which is like melt out of excitement, but too it's super unexpected and odd for me, and I just was like, that would be perfect, and he really isn't fit for the song. So there was some back and forth, just like trying to figure everything out. It was actually while he was doing the Olympics with Kevin Hart. They were doing that like commentary Summer Olympics, Yes, and so basically, uh, we got everything worked out. But then he didn't do it for like a week or so because he was having to get up literarily to do this. And I was still like that, you know, he was everywhere, Like the New York Times did a piece on him right around then he's in the Olympics. I was like, he's not gonna do this, like why would he want to do this? And so he ended up actually doing it, which is awesome and it's still funny to me. So like listening to mixes for the record. My daughter, who's four, liked this song and she would occasionally tell strangers she would like, my dad has this new funny guy Snoop on a song, and I was like, Jane, and I don't people probably don't believe her, but I was like, he's not new. I guess he's kind of funny, but still wild to me that he did it. It's really fun whenever you get a rapper on a track. And then I have other friends in music who have done the same thing, who have gotten hip hop artist and it's different than country artists because they country was kind of just trade, like I'll give you one, but you're gonna give me one. And and I feel like, for like, uh that, I think that's the way that it goes like for that kind of stuff. And then singer songwriter world two, and I just feel like rap is a different there's that marketplace has been like worked out. It's like, here's how we do this. So it's kind of a formula, totally yes. And so with that though, when you asked Snoop to do something, do you go, hey, give me this many bars and just write whatever you want you get you kind of go here, listen to the song, come up with your own. So I was feeling it out and I'm like a total control freak. So it was a little weird to basically his guy. After we worked everything, now he's like, okay, just so you know, this is how it goes. Snoop does this one time. There's no reados, it's not like you know he and they're like he's the best, but he's going to do it one time. You can best, the money, will give you the track, that's it. And so Greg, my manager, is like you sure you want to do this, and I was like, we came all this way, man, yeah, let's let's do it, which again not at all like me. We did confirm that it was going to be clean because I was like, you know, I don't have any misconceptions that Snoop has like followed my music closely for many years. I was like, just so you know, like we gotta we gotta keep this like pretty PG and so there's a there's a bit of a saga there, so I'm like, let's do it. He sends the tracks and uh, I wasn't gonna tell his story, but I will basically the second line. So the song is called Sunday. His first line is you got me feeling like chick flows open on a Sunday, and then a second line, after we've waited, you know, for like ten days, kind of on pins and needles, is like they legalized green and made it the National blunt Day, and I was just like, oh, Snoop, come on, man. So I I got that. I got like the files like in the middle of the night one night, and I woke up to it like seven, and so I'm just immediately panicking where it's like I just paid Snooped wrapping my record and now I can't use it. So I like go oatch my studio and I'm like flying stuff around and so basically I ended up wrapping over him a couple of times onlines that I was like, I don't really like that, and uh. I talked to Greg and I was like, okay, I fixed it, and he was like, well, I don't know if we can do that, like we can't necessarily edit what he sent us, and so then it was a whole another thing. But he ended up being cool about it, and it actually ended up being I think cool because it feels like we're like doing back and forth, but it was totally you know, I was out on a limb already from what I would usually do, ask him to do the song, and then when they were like he's only gonna do this once, I was like, let's do it. But it ended up great and I did. I asked him to do the intro and he did that, which is really kind of him. But so that's that's how it went. I didn't know if it was like do you want me to write this or do you want some pointers? It's just like we got it, bro, and I was like, okay, hope, good funny. It was like, yeah, I may give me some pointers something like in that clip that you played, are they going back and forth? Let's see ship? But leg was open over Sunday Snoop By we tried it was close. Wouldn't that be great when you tell the story? I wouldn't. I would never have thought that were the case. I think that is such a great story. I know, And that's and the deal is, like I would love for people to believe. And I think people are like, oh man, what was like hanging with Snoop? And it's like, I dude, everybody does this remote Like I wasn't I would I would have hung with Snoop, but we didn't. And so part of it is like I think it sounds like Snoop and I are just like best buds, like throwing it back and forth, and in reality it was a very stressed out me that was probably like seven thirty five am. I'm like, what would I want him to say? I'd be like Snoop, I know we tried it was closed, wouldn't that be great? And I was like, That's what I'm gonna do? But it ended up it ended up working out, but it was pretty funny to get there. Now. In your bio, Ben Rector also wrap a Snoop Dogg and Snoop. In that wrap, Snoop says, you know, I don't think I'm extrapolating too much in this, but he said, we you know they there's only there's only one of the We've got that hustler flow. And so I'm I'm happy to accept that from Snoop Dogg. Did I pay him to say that? Yes, but he I think he meant it. I feel he meant it. Yeah, for sure, you're an art of Arkansas. Maybe I think the story that I read was maybe your sophomore of your freshman year, like, do you interest song in a contest? Yeah? It was a John Lennon songwriting contest, which I had No. I don't think any business entering. I don't know what made me think that I should, and so I did, and then I wanted which was crazy. And who's in this contest all over America, all the world? Yeah, it's it's still goes on now. I haven't followed it. It's just basically like I don't know if there's rules against professionals, but it's just like enter your songs to be considered. And they had like, you know, judges who were like cool. I don't remember who they were, but it was like hip people. What was this a song that you had just written? Was it? Oh euromart song? It wasn't a euromart was it was an original? Uh? Just one of my songs I had made, like an EP over Chris This break at Oral Roberts University, which is a Christian university in Tulsa. They have a studio that we used, and um, I entered that song and yeah, I got a call like I don't know how long after that, and someone was like, is this Bend. I was like, yeah, they're like you won. It was like I won what like you won the gent and SI as like incredible, that's awesome. Um, and then it was cool. I mean, nothing like major changed for me then, but it was really cool to get some affirmation to be like, oh, hey, like maybe I could do this. What do you win? Though it was actually quite cool. They it's at that point it was sponsored by Roland and somebody else, and they just were like it was kind of a lot of I want to say it was like ten thousand dollars of stuff, and so I got to pick out like pedals and the piano and some cases and whatever it was. It was I was like, this is incredible. It's awesome. Practically it was amazing for what you were doing, the stuff that you could Oh yeah no, I used like that piano and some of that stuff for like a long time. But I think the biggest takeaway was just like, you know, I'm just like making all of I still I'm making all of this up. But then I was just like I didn't even know if am I really doing music? And it was cool to have any outside anything be like, hey, you're good at this. I was like, oh, thank you, that's awesome. When did you start to feel the sort of underground buzz that made you go, wow, this is not that you don't deserve it or you aren't talented enough, but you can be both and and still not get I think honestly, man. So, second semester of freshman year, I started playing on campus and people would like come to shows, but it was usually like you know how it starts. It's like your friends are excited about it, and they might bring a couple of friends and it's like, Okay, this is kind of cool. And the summer in between freshman and sophomore year, everybody took everybody that had bought my like EP home. They took it home and shared it. And so like the next year, there was a bunch of people like I'm making this up, Like Kappa Kappa Gamma at a state wants me to come play it, like the walkathon for charity, a bunch of stuff like that. And so that next year I was playing in other places and basically like when I would come back to those places, I would realize I was like I don't know anybody here, Like none of my friends are at this show. You're just here, I guess because you like this. I think like probably sophomore year I started to realize that it was like I stopped knowing people at the shows and it was just like people, And I was like, oh, this must kind of be working because it's not like my buddies and their friends. It's just like strangers. So I think probably maybe sophomore junior year, it felt like it was like I was being pulled by like a ski boat rather than like trying to like paddle myself, you know. And is that the time when you thought, all right, this is it, Like I got it, that's what you're gonna do. Not maybe I don't. Not I have it in that I'm really great, I'm gonna rock this, but like I got it, like I've kind of found my purpose. Yeah. I think, um my parents practicality rubbed off on me in that, Like I was never the like I'm just gonna like go out l a and chase my dreams. Like I just I'm not really wired like that. And um so I think that probably probably like junior year, I started being like, I think this is my job. Like there was enough stuff coming in and I was missing enough school and we were at that point starting to play like actual venues. It wasn't like just bars anymore. Like I remember we played the House of Blues Dallas and just felt like we had like won the Grammys or something. Um. I think when that started happening, it was like, oh, like this is this is probably what I'm supposed to do because it was enough of a wave. It wasn't like, oh, yeah, it's like Ben Place covers at a college bar. It was like, oh, it seems like people are actually enjoying this. So I'd say, yeah, that's kind of like when I was like maybe I could do this. I mean this in the most complimentary way because I feel this way about even me at a point, because I've shifted and done all the different formats I've been hip hop and pop up the country. You're a bit genre lists, which is great and at times can also be frustrating. Totally so being a genre lest artists, Like, was there ever anyone that said, hey man, pick a lane, like pick a lane and dedicate to it? And you know what's interesting is like I was super fortunate to come along at the time that I did because you could kind of like choose your own adventure, like it was just when iTunes was like really happening, and there wasn't really as much of a ceiling anymore on independent artists, which was awesome because I was like, oh great, like I can just like make music I want to make it seems like people like it. This would be great. But because of that, like I also wasn't in the infrastructure of the music industry, and so I was kind of like, uh, like an overgrown cottage industry musician where it's like, oh, like there's like a type of like a dwarf tree. I was like a tall version of that, and so um because I wasn't on a label or anything, there was nobody being like, hey man, to like really have this blow up. We need you to make like folk music only where we need you to whatever. I was just like I was a and ring everything and I'm like making the records, and so I'd say later on in my career like now, it is occasionally frustrating because you're like, oh, dang, Like I like I envy the infrastructure of country because it's like hey, like there's a there's a playbook here and it's not necessarily that simple, but like there are lanes for people making this kind of music, and for me now it's weird because like I'm kind of in the same lane as like do Aalipa, Like I'm kind of in that lane, but I'm not really that. But I'm also I'm not really in the like folk Americana and so um. I think in hindsight, it probably would have behooved me to be like, oh, like really drilled down on like one thing. Um, But it's just kind of a time and place thing. Like I if I had been come along ten years earlier, I probably just would have signed because we've talked to like labels on every record, and it's always just been like I was a little bit too late, like senior singer songwriter music was kind of like coming down in popularity as I was coming up, and it just never really made sense for me. So if it was ten years earlier, I probably would have signed end and done it. And because I came around a little later, it's just like yeah and so um, it's always kind of fallen on me to sort of creative direct that stuff, which is good and bad. Like creative freedom is awesome, but sometimes it would be great to have somebody be like, hey, like, we're gonna plug you into this lane. And so now it's just kind of I'm just sort of free floating. You know. How I relate to that a bit. And why I asked that question is when I was doing pop, I was too country to do pop. When I did country, I was too pop to do country. When I did hip hop, when I did sports, I never I never quite fit anywhere, but I was able to go anywhere. And there is a power in that. Then I could go anywhere. And I was extremely and still am extremely versatile. But again, I never I was never a part of any group totally that they just welcomed and embraced. If anything, people obviously I wouldn't be at the point. So I'm not I'm not whining about it because it's been great, but I never had just a group that said you're one of us, let's go together. Sure, And I was good at what I did. Heck, I'm great at what I do, but there still wasn't and and I just I can feel that at times with you as well. You're great at what you do, but you know, there's really not a lane. This has come on in right, and I think I think the real difficulty is I there are I think those lanes do exist, but I think like, especially in the last ten or fifteen years, they've changed so much, Like the definitions of formats at radio have changed a ton, Like we think about that a lot with this record, where it's like there's songs that I think could do well and like people are starting to play the Living My Best Life the first single, which is great, but there's not like a total lock fit for me for a lane. And it's funny because it's like really like it's pop music, but what pop radio is or looks like today, it's like a little bit odd for that, like it doesn't totally fit. Um. So yeah, I mean, and it is a challenge, And I think the place that it's a challenge is mainly just like in the street stuff because big picture, people can kind of find what they want to find, and like I've been super fortunate to have like people be like we like this enough to like have it be a thing. It's really more the kind of like uh, internal industry stuff that's a little bit tough because I feel like I always joke I'll use the like office space, we put cover sheets on the TPS reports. I was always like, if I make a good enough report, it's not gonna matter. And I realized in the internal like industry stuff, it's like, now I we need still you need a cover sheet. We on the CPS reports, TVs reports, we have cover sheets, and it's like, oh, man, like I I didn't get the memo on that. I just didn't. I don't put those on there, you know what I mean? I think I heard it on the Pulse I listened to because that's serious too, and listen to the not nineties on nine. But I think I heard your new single on the Pulse? Is that right? Yeah? And there they a man are so great, um huge shout out to them, but they they just started playing it. And it's honestly, I feel like, uh, for me, especially, radio has always been like an interest endeavor. But for whatever reason, again with me being like maybe this is just gonna work, it feels like there's a little bit of like a thing happening where stations are playing it that I didn't think would, and it feels like people like I like this song, I'm gonna play it, which is like incredible, but I don't know where that will go. But serious has has been super kind to like start playing it, which is super awesome because I'm not I'm not like on Universal or something. It's just like me and Greg. You know what I mean. Here, let me play some of living my best life. Here you go wake up with the sunrise. It does not look good. Thing I thought that, but I've been gets him steps and awest my best friend. It's the best said it has been in a long I'm living my bed. Whenever you see the art for The Joy music, yeah, the Red Creature, and I watched I think I watched you do a whole Q and A on it. But but I'll remove what I kind of already know and just explain it to me. It's basically you and what looks like a muppet. I don't know if a muppet was the you know, in the genesis of the idea. Yeah, so I'll tell you the whole story. Um, Basically, I had this crazy, wild idea to make kind of a creature that would embody Joy because I started realizing the record was gonna be called The Joy of Music and kind of had the idea to be like, let's make this short film which is like music videos for the record together and with one narrative, and um, I was like, I've never seen anybody do that, and it would be so awesome just to like get everybody in on this joke with me. I transparently can also like at shows and stuff like throw the like spotlight onto this thing and I have it do stuff and like get a little bit of a break. And also it just sounds super fun to me to get to do something creative like that. So I sketched out some stuff and I was like, who could build this? Looked all over the internet at Jim Henson's Creature Shop is like the best in the world. At this they make them up. It's sesame Street and like anything that looks like that they made where the wild things are like all that stuff. Um, we talked to them and it was expensive, and I was like, I don't know if this is like are they gonna this is gonna be a big enough project for them that they're gonna do a great job. I'm worried that they're gonna be like, oh, we got the new Star Wars movie. Sorry, kid, Like here's your like silly creature. It's like snoop. They make one and that's it. Like, here you go. I didn't want to, I know, but I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to, like figure, I'm trying to feel out, like how's this going to go? Talk to another group? And so when realized that Henson's was the way to go, so talk to them, and they do. They were the best. It was a dream and so I'll you know, I think you'll probably pick up what I'm putting down here, But this is kind of the party line with Joy. What actually happened was I sketched it out there. Artist sketches that out better. We kind of like start diving in. They start building a prototype. They're like building this giant suit. I went to their offices in New York and like tried it on and gave notes and we got really close to the end. They're like, you're never gonna believe this. There's a guy that looks just like this and he lives in Nashville. His name is Joy, And I was like, why didn't you just tell me this when we started out. So what had happened was Joy is just living in Murphy's borrow, just giant red creature, and he had talked to Henson and he was like, I want to be in the Muppets, and they were like, you can't be in the Muppets. We make the Muppets. And he was like, oh bummer. And so when this happened, I just ended up casting him in the film and they helped me find him. You know what I mean, I'm confused with references to him and him living in Boro. It's hard. It's it's you know, what I'm gonna say is the older you get, it can be harder and harder to believe that Joy exists. Got it? But there is, you know, and you know, you guys are close. We're tight. Man. He's actually staying at my house right now. He's really great. He's a really good guy. And well, Joy come to shows and ever present or make appearances. We're kind of we're in talks with him and we're trying to figure that out. Um. You know. As the as the short film started to come out, he's like a little bit like, well, I don't know, maybe I gotta consider some other options, et cetera. But I think he'll come out on the road with us. Well, he need his own bus for pretty much. You know, I mean, you you would you would be you can kind of tell on the cover, but um, it's so much bigger in real life than you would think. Like you and I couldn't get our arms around him. It's so big, really big. I mean I initially when I saw the yard thought it was probably just like a foot and alt hall. Oh no, I mean I know, just next to you large about that? No, no, no, no, I mean really and truly, man, it is so before everything came out, we kind of had Joy walk around Nashville one day and we went to twelve where I used to live, and I mean you can see Joy from a mile away, and it is like it's just the most giant thing. It's wild. It's truly crazy. Do you expect Joy to be in your future creative process or is this a one album thing? You know? I don't know. Or I spent off into book kids, but I just want to kids book, no joke. So kind of Joy has started to express to me maybe some interest, like maybe he wants to make some music, and I'm like, well, we could talk about that, so you know, I could see that offshoot happening. And then honestly, we have talked about him doing some kind of a you know, because these kids so far love him. My kids are like truly like love him more than me. So maybe maybe we'll do that. One of the other songs on the record has Kenny G. I watched I'm Not Done with It. You have you watched the HBO documentary on Keny No, I've heard him. I've heard it's awesome. It's awesome. Yeah, I've heard his rad and Kenny G is more than just a saxophone player, dude. So I I can't say enough good things about Kenny G and my experience working with him. The best guy in the world. And he so he was the first person, he was the first like quote unquote feature on the record. There's a song with saxophone on it, and I was like, what if we got Kenny G to play this? So we get with Kenny G. He's awesome. I don't know if it's gonna be like I'm just gonna shred over your song, have fun, or if it's like we work on it together. And so he sends his first pass and I literally into him in an email is like, I don't know how this goes. Is this like you're Kenny G and you give me the sacks? Good luck or do I give you notes on the sacks And he's like, oh, man, let's make it what you wanted to be. So like we go back and forth and the coolest part of the whole thing it comes, you know. He's like, man, I've had a great time on this. I'm really glad I got to do it. And I was like, that's so kind of you, man, and so like, I'm getting ready to kick it over to my manager to work out like whatever financial arrangement we're gonna have, and he's just like, man, don't worry about it. I loved I loved it. I was like, Kenny g are you kidding me? Like are you serious? And dude, he just the kindest guy of all time and it was so fun to work with. He was he was a blast man. You'll like the HBO Max documentaries that you have a relationship with them already, but it's just shows the many sides of him. He's also a big golfer, was super into golf and I so I this was like in the you know, the very the very beginning craziness of COVID, but I was like, man, and we talked about that. He's like, we should played all some time, and I was like, from fem from your lips to God's ears, how did you get so good at golf? And Jake Oh, and it's like, hey, you know, Ben's really good. I was working I was working with I've worked with everyone, and I still suck. And we were talking about something in your name came up and he's like, you know, Ben's really good, and I thought, okay, sure, whatever, And then I see you on like the Golf channel swinging a driver outside you or something, and then you're playing at Jake or at Jake with Jake, or at least at the same event, the Pebble Beach. Yeah, the prom Yeah, so man, okay, So what actually happened was, um, I I played my Chris Wiley of euro mart fame, and I in eighth grade. I was very large seventh grade actually, I was very chubby kid, and Chris is like six for like a hundred pounds. We were like the odd couple. For whatever reason, we decided to try out for the golf team, none of us being good at all at golf, and the deal was like pretty much nobody tried out, so we both made it. No instruction, no anything. It was literally like childcare pretty much. So my mom would drive us out to the middle of nowhere. It was really far away and literally like I don't remember a coach speaking to me. It was just like, you're here, hit balls. I guess so. Um. I stopped playing after that, and I wouldn't really consider that like a history with golf. It was like one year for like a fall, I like hit some balls kind of. I asked Chris. I was like, how bad were we? He was like, I don't think we broke a hundred and twenty, like truly, I think we were like not golfers. So after college, you know, I was like kind of looking for a hobby. And then I started touring more and Hillary, my wife, I would come home and she was like, you really need to find a hobby because I would go from being on the road moving a million miles an hour and then I'd kind of be like bouncing off the walls at home. So her dad gave me his old golf clubs and I started playing a little bit. What age the twenty four And I'm always like, these kids that are good. They started at eleven, they were rich kids. Yeah, now I and and and I honestly did. My greatest regretted life as that I didn't play golf because I had so many years I could have played, and instead of like it doesn't matter if I can feel the ground er, now it doesn't it doesn't matter. Um. But so basically I started playing like a little more. And then probably like five or six years ago, I was like kind of getting into it in a real way, and I was like, I should join a club here, and so I joined it the place Jake plays. And that's when I got like actually serious about it, and so I just to playing with people that were better than I was, and like practiced. Do you ever play with Corney h dude? You know it's so weird. I don't know if we've ever played together, and we've talked about it. I see him all the time, and I feel like we just keep like our schedules don't line up, but I need to play with him. He's also a guy that's annoyingly good, takes it really applied with it, takes it really seriously. And you're jealous because he has multiple things really good. Um, you're weren't. You should come hang out with our group though we we have a filled grounders club no. We also, yeah, we're sit around the Phili grounders all day. I can't tell you see if joking? Yeah, of course maybe legit. If it was like Homer and Derby, I'd be like, let's do we do that? Though we do home run Derby too. There's a little baseball phil this. I'm serious about seven of us and there's uh, it's probably a filth, like twelve year olds and we play home run Derby. Oh dude, I mean that that's the exact kind of pick up sports that I miss. We I gotta call last, do you play basketball? Pick up basketball? Ever? I messed up my ankle really bad a year ago and I haven't done anything like that since. I also am nervous about playing in and I have a lot of friends that are like, hey, let's play, and so I have been considering. You told me, I think this is lamb or not hiring one of these coaches they coach like ten year olds to come out here in a basketball court and like work with me. That's a great idea to make sure that I'm back in it all. Dude, I think I think it's a great idea. It would It would be an enriching experience. I feel like any any new challenge is awesome. I feel like the older you get, it's easy for me to be like I don't want to do new stuff, and it's I think it's rad when let's go back again. So you're a did you graduate college? I graduated, I mean just nice, just barely. It was to the point if I had had two more years, I don't know if I would have finished. And I vividly remember. So I've played two shows in college, which is insane. It was like every weekend Thursday, I'd leave, come back Sunday night. I remember one time getting back to class on a Monday and they were handing out Scantron's and I was like, this is bad. I didn't know he had a test today, which is I try to like take stuff seriously, so I d of came in for a crash. I had to keep a certain g p A for my scholarship, and I was like just barely barely slid in. So where did you move to when you graduated college? I moved to Nashville, So basically I was going to stay in Fayetteville and um a couple I there was like a core of Nashville singer songwriters that I like looked up to, and it played some shows with it was like Dave Barnes and at Words and those guys, and Dave was like, you should really move to Nashville. And I was like, Nashville doesn't need another like guy with songs about his feelings who plays guitar like you guys chock full of that. And he was like you should just consider it. And so UM ended up moving right after to Nashville, and like, yeah, it was literally like finished college, finished, like an EP drive to Nashville to like find a place to live. It was like that does this place feel like home? You know? I think it does. There's the only part that doesn't is I didn't realize that like Oklahoma. I think I grew up thinking Oklahoma was so darn and I think some Oklahoma's think that, but it's really like Cowboys South. It's like a different flavor. And so I've realized I'm like, oh, like I actually kind of missed Oklahoma because that's like my like native tongue. That's like like I'm so used to that. Um, And so I think Nashville totally feels like home, but there's still a little bit of like, oh, this isn't exactly like where I grew up. And I think I didn't expect that because when I moved here, I was like, yeah, I'll be like Oklahoma. And it's like, oh, it's a little different, but I like it. Again. My wife from Fort Gibson and I always assumed Oklahoma was the South. It was just next to Arkansas totally, and it's and it really is not. It's a different brand, and it's yeah, it's not. And she doesn't even think of Oklahoma as the South. And not only that, she's like, hey, we weren't on the bed side in the Civil War, right, we weren't even state. Yeah, she was like, we weren't. We weren't in it. Yeah, totally. Now, I think, and I think some people in Oklahoma would claim like being Southern. But I think that like when you meet someone who's from like Alabama or George, it's like, oh, it's not. It's not like that, you know what I mean. It's kind of its own thing. Here is a clip of Supernatural featuring Dave cos from video album See Something, super Natur Let's Do one More. Here is dream On, dream On, dream Of, Even when you're afraid, Oh your dreams maybe gone stream on Dreamer, when what's chans you crazy? Just telling them they're wrong. Dream I was looking at some of your tour and you tour not like a country act, which is even when when I tour, if I'm doing Standout or we're doing our music comedy group, we tour like a country artist. I got a job, you know, well, tour maybe Thursday night, Friday Saturday, mostly just Friday Saturday, right. And then I have friends that aren't in country music and they just go and stay on the road like knock it out. Yeah, you're kind of a hybrid of that, like there are times where you're out there for four or five, six nights in a row, and yeah, and and so um. I used to do the like go out for like two solid months, speak on the whole time. And I think just having kids, I was just like I don't want to for a long time, I did music like it was like a rental car or like summer camp. It was like a dead sprint. I was like, I'm gonna like sprint as fast as far as I can, then we'll be done with this. And I think now I realized, like, oh, this is my real life, so I need to like integrate it into that. So, um, it's a little more expensive to not just be gone. But I've also realized, like I just I don't think I would do well. It's at some point for me in the life stage I'm in with kids and stuff, it's like I just don't want to be like actually gone for that whole chunk of time. So um, yeah, it just kind of pens like I try at this point keep it to like three shows a week, just like anytime I have a bunch of four show weeks in a row. Vocally it can get a little bit dicey, but sometimes routing stuff, it's like, yeah, like we will just stay out. But it just kind of depends when you do the new tour again. I was watching on your Instagram. Someone's like, Hey, you're gonna play the old stuff the new stuff? Will you play the entire new record? I'm I'm actually trying to figure that out, and part of me is like I'll be interested to see, like, um, it's the first record I've been optimistic about and I just I'm like, I think it's actually good. Were you the most sad person ever before the truck. No, No, it's finally had faith in myself. I think it's I think what it actually is is like I'm just I'm very critical of the stuff that I do, and so like there's there hasn't been anything that I've released that I'm like, I think this is bad, Like I'm not like that. But there was always kind of an asterisk with stuff like in golf, you know, it always felt like I wanted to make a little bit of excuse where it's like, well, like that was that one was a little toy, like know, they didn't get all that one. And I think this is the first one that I'm like, I had this one good, Like this is about as hard as I can hit this record, and that's a It's just a funny feeling for me because I think I'm used to being like, oh I should have done that song again or whatever. So um, yeah, I think it's just the first time that I've that I haven't maybe that I've made something that I don't still feel like very critical of. I'm like, I think it's good. So part of me is like I'll be interested to see what people's reaction to it is and if it ends up being like a whole thing where it's like, yeah, dude, we got We're gonna play the whole record and other stuff too. If I had to guess, I bet it will be like a decent amount of the new record and other stuff. Because I never want to be the person that someone's like, we came from des Moinese for this show and like you didn't play the song we want to. I want people to leave being like that was awesome, And I don't ever want to be like I don't want to play the old stuff. But I don't know exactly what songs will resonate or if it'll be like, oh man, people are as excited about this record as I am, so we need to play a lot of them. I bet it would be a little They're both when you cover Shania Twain still the one you know we were playing I was playing on the National AC count I show. You know you can't play it on the radio, Like why that? Why record that? Why put that out? Like what about that song? To you? Well? So, I mean in Oklahoma, country music very popular, and I feel like because I wasn't at an early age like diving into like obscure random stuff, the country music was just playing. I love that song. It's like literally just one of the best songs I think ever. Um. And I also love with covers stuff that's like a little bit there's a little bit kitchy, a little bit unexpected, kind of fun and funny. Um, not just like an earnest like this is like a very important song, because I feel like people wouldn't immediately be like, oh, you probably would cover Shania Twain. But I think it's just like as a writer, I was just excited to play it every because I'm like, it's such a good song, and then it people on the road enjoyed it more than I expected, and so we're like, well we have to, like, you know, we should put this version of it out the record in its entirety out March eleven. There are some songs out already now. The tour you can go to Ben Rector music dot com, slash Tour, the Joy of Music Tour. There will be special appearances by Joy. Yes, we can say that. Yeah, well I think we already. I thought we already said that. Well, I was trying to still give him an out in case he changed his mind, but he's gonna come. Um, JP Sacks, Yeah, is gonna come out on the road with you. Yeah, so he's basically we split the tour in the tour right, Yeah, So basically the front side is again named Jake Scott, who's also from our mark Ye and then um JP. I just love his music, Like at the beginning of the pandemic, I would go for runs and I just like wore his music out, and he Aaron Sterling, was a drummer friend of mine, plays for everybody he played on his stuff and so like I know a few people that know him. And so when I was thinking about this tour, I'm trying on this cycle to just do stuff that sounds fun, and I was like, it sounds like fun to have JP sacks out because I just think his music is awesome. So he'll he'll be on the back side of the tour, and then the first of three slot there's two guys who I think are like the best young Nashville singer songwriters, just both insanely talented, and so they're gonna split that set. They'll like play like, you know, a few songs each and then we'll join in my band. Oh that's cool. Yeah, alright, Well he's all over starting in May and it's one to three. I can just ask you, but I'm going to count out and be really annoying. Three four or five six seven looks like twenty shows or so, yeah, it's probably is. I don't know if the final count was I counted wrong, then all right, maybe maybe it twenty. You could be right. You know, it's a couple of them. Don't go on seal yet, the one in Vienna that's probably yeah. You guys go follow Ben at ben Underscore Rector because I'm assuming somebody has been rector. There is a British photographer who doesn't post anymore, but he he beat me to Instagram. Actually, my social people were just like, he hasn't posted for a why I think might be able to get it from I'm like, no, I don't think that's gonna happen. That's the worst because I have to go with Mr Bobby Bones everywhere now. Really, because one guy who wasn't posting from Virginia Beach named Bobby Bones named his name the handle and there's yeah, we couldn't get it from him. I was I was just like I was a little bit of a late adopter on Instagram, and then I looked up and some guy had it. I mean that was when it was like nobody used it, but he was. He was at ben Rector was quick, He's got it. Read one question for been Rector. All right, this is read Or. He does the cameras, he's running all the cameras. No pressure, read pressure. No, he does this too every time. Okay, okay, come prepared. But I used to just hit him with it and he was like you are you are you? Are you from Arkansas? I am where? Yeah? I grew up in Benton. Sweet man. Yeah, man, that's all I do. I just hire us. We're all, we all work together, we're all cousins. Somehow we try to get back. But I've been a fan for a long time, awesome things all throughout junior high, in high school and stuff. And one of my favorite songs of yours is probably yeah, So how did that song come about? And like is it a true story? So I would say that story is like an amalgamation, so it's like not necessarily like this happened like on this flight, but that's like a type of conversation that I had with a bunch of people and I realized, like, you know, I wanted to be able to write a song that was like from a place of gratitude, um, but also acknowledging that, like some of the parts of my job are kind of weird. So uh, that's it's a it's a conversation that I had with you know, a number of people, and then I kind of distilled it down to like one thing. So it did really happen, but it wasn't like and it happened like on flight to for eight Atlanta, you know what I mean. I met on a flight. Yeah, I thought it was I thought that's what it was about. Actually, but yeah, we were flying to California. So that day I now remember this. I think it was like some kind of was like a radio festival or something in maybe Arizona. Maybe we weren't going or coming from the same spot. So that day, no joke. I think that's the only time I've ever done this. But I think I was in every time zone of America on that day because we woke up in the on the East coast and we had to fly connecting somewhere. Then we got to that place, and then I ended up flying from there to Central time because I was meeting the tour later, it was a day, it was a thing. Well, you were still fairly nice. You you're very kind. I don't even say really like, hey, you're fine, you kind of I think maybe one of us was standing in line for the bathroom and I was like, I'm a big fan and you were like Billy, and I was like, no, still big fans. And that was the first time. Well listen, um, obviously I'm a massive fan and I can't wait for the whole record to be out. And just of that, you Chase, I won't say new concepts, but interesting ways to take concepts used in other parts of the creative space and combine them and not just joy but snoop, but the way you will choose a cover. So it's you know, there's no reinvention of the wheel, but you know there are different spokes and everyone put it in that specific will that you're doing that and thanks, so you know, I really admire that. And I'm also jealous that you're really good at golf and you didn't start until your twenties. I mean really good. It's a little it's a little bit generous, but you're you're you're probably good, no, not at all good. What's good? Do you have any cab? Yeah, I mean around a fourteen he had to really be over. It's not it's like when you're you're like, it's pretty good. I was waiting on you being like, I'm like, no, I can on a good day. I can shoot at eight on a good day. So okay. So here you would say as encouragement, I was there probably five years ago, truly. Yeah, but here's the thing with me my body. I'll play really good for a week and then for some reason it just forgets. Yeah, but it's it's and I'll shank for a month. I feel like it's like that for me. It feels like for everybody it's just you're always like kind of like you're like this if if, if this is good. You're just like always up and down. But like the trend can be better. If you had told me five years ago that it's like, hey, you'll like shooting the seventies, A lot of it that's never gonna happen, that's never going and it's gonna have it's gonna the best training equipment. I bought it all. I So I you have the foresight, which is like the one that sits on the ground. Oh yeah, well you're cooler in every way. No, no, it is better. You said it all right there he has been Rector Ben Thank you, thank you. Good luck with the record when you come to Nashville. Hopefully I'll find a time my busy schedule to come right there.