No Soto, No Sh—

The Phillies Show

Barring a miracle, Juan Soto isn’t signing with the Phillies.

He has received multiple $600 million offers, according to Fair Territory’s Ken Rosenthal. Soto could make a decision before the end of next week’s Winter Meetings in Dallas. We said on this show last week that the Phillies had not met with Soto. We even wondered if an offer would be made. It turns out, the Phillies have not made an offer.

None of this should come as a surprise. The Phillies were never considered serious suitors for Soto, despite speculation. Still, we talk about Soto’s situation and what comes next for the Phillies.

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2024-12-05 27 min Transcript

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Transcript

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bryce Harper and welcome to The Philly Show.

00:00:08
Speaker 2: Hi everybody, Ruben Tomorrow, Junior, Jim Salisbury, Todd's Lucky. The Philly Show brought to you by the File Territory Network. It's Thursday morning, December fifth, twenty twenty four.

00:00:19
Speaker 3: Guys.

00:00:19
Speaker 1: I hope you're doing well. We got together today. We wanted to get together.

00:00:22
Speaker 2: Because of the shocking news. The shocking news that the Jan Soto sweepstakes are nearing the end and the Phillies are not necessarily involved. And I'm sure when you guys read this Ken Rosenthal, I guess our colleague right at part of the File Territory Network. He wrote on Tuesday night that there was like multiple six hundred million dollar offers. Did you guys do the no into the air because you were so caught off guard?

00:00:53
Speaker 4: Yeah, not even a little, not a lot.

00:00:56
Speaker 2: But we thought we yeah, we thought we would get together and kind of jet talk it out and get I wanted to get your guys reaction on because we've been talking about it for months that this was not going to happen. So I guess maybe the only surprising thing is they have not met. They never met, probably won't ever meet with Scott Boris and one Soda.

00:01:19
Speaker 5: Well, they didn't go through the charade of meeting because it just wasn't gonna work where their funeral structure is. I mean, they've played in the deep end of the free agent pool in other years and come away with Bryce Harper at three hundred and thirty million and Trade Turner at Over at three hundred million. They have one hundred million dollar contracts. You know, to even think about Soto and fill the other needs you have on this team, you're gonna be looking at the fourth luxury tax threshold.

00:01:48
Speaker 6: They don't want to go there. It's punitive, it it can course coast some havoc.

00:01:54
Speaker 5: I think Soda would have been would have been a great player to have in Philadelphia, but he also be a great player to have in twenty nine other cities. It just it didn't fit into their payroll structure. Like I mentioned, with the two three hundred million guy three hundred million dollar guys, this contract with Sodo could and probably will double that. I mean, I'm really curious to see if he just doubles Bryce Harper's mark right on the nose. Harper at three hundred and thirty million. Does Sodo go to six sixty. I think it's a real, real possibility. I know we've talked about it a lot. It's fun to talk about, but none of us ever thought the Phillies were going to be a serious player for him, and in the end they weren't. I still think it's gonna be one of the New York teams. So I guess Boston is making it pretty interesting. Toronto's making it pretty interesting. But I've said all along, I think this negotiation could have happened at the triborough Bridge and he's gonna be a Yankee or Met.

00:02:47
Speaker 6: We'll see.

00:02:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, I totally agree with you as far as the Yankees and Mets are concerned. I mean, obviously Los Angeles Dodgers players on everybody right now, just based on you know, their ability to do, defer and do the things that they want to do as far as their payroll is concerned. But you know, it's not over till it's over. I know the fans will probably be super disappointed that. You know, why, why why wouldn't Soto come here? You know, Well, again, I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, you have to be there's there's a reality, and the reality of it is that while this city is a large market city, the revenues that you can generate in the city are far different from the revenues that you can generate it in New York City and in La Okay. It's the fifth biggest city in the country. I get it. But the reality of it is you have to be able to work within your means and and you know, with all due respect, and I know John Nelson wants to do everything he possibly can to bring, you know, another championship here, and there's just some some realities you have to deal with. And so yes, he would have been a uh tremendous addition to this ball club, as he would to any ball club. I just don't see it in the cards now. There's a lot of other things that they can do to improve this team and to be a World Series, you know, champion. The Yankees had him last year with Aaron Judge and they did not win the World Series. So let's let's let's let's have an understanding what's going on. The Padres did not win it with them and Machado and Tatias and all types of boguards they did not win the World Series with them, so it doesn't it's not one player. One player can make a huge impact on eighteen, there's no question, but there's so many different things that have to fall into place to have a championship caliber club. And it doesn't necessarily mean that the buck stops with Juan Soto.

00:04:51
Speaker 5: Yeah, j if you go back, if you go back six weeks ago, I mean, I just don't know how anybody could be surprised at this. I don't know how anybody could be surpris you know, Dave Dombroski, who is you know, plays things very close to the vest, does not let a lot of people into what he's thinking, but he will offer glimpses into his thinking at times. And he said, you know, I don't think we're in the market for another star.

00:05:16
Speaker 6: We haven't.

00:05:17
Speaker 5: This team has enough stars. It's a good team with enough stars. I think was the gist of his comment a few days after they were eliminated. And that was a to me, a telltale that it just wasn't They weren't going to be a player for this guy.

00:05:32
Speaker 6: That wasn't going to happen.

00:05:33
Speaker 5: And I agree with you, Ruben, it's about having the best team, not having the best player. They already have a couple of the best players, players who haven't gotten there yet.

00:05:43
Speaker 6: They need some work around the edges.

00:05:45
Speaker 5: And you know something that Dombrowski also said in his breakup news conference back in mid October, it's about playing well at the right time. And I know a lot of people go crazy when they hear that, but he is right.

00:05:58
Speaker 6: He is right.

00:05:59
Speaker 5: You assemble a good ball club, good players, they know what the hell they're doing. You got to play well at the right time. And we saw it in twenty eleven the Phillies did not play well and a great team did not play well at the right time. We saw it in twenty twenty three, great team did not play well at the right time. Twenty four did not play well at the right time. Oh, twenty twenty two, they did play well at the right time and it got them to the World Series. So and then you know, obviously games sake, blah blah blah. So there's still.

00:06:32
Speaker 6: A lot of that there.

00:06:34
Speaker 5: They have a lot, still a lot of tweaking to do around the edges, and they're gonna have to do it without Juan Soto, and no one should be surprised that he's not coming to Philadelphia, and no one should be surprised when I guess he ends up with one of the New York teams, unless Boston decides to do something crazy.

00:06:55
Speaker 6: That and to announce, you know, almost like the British are coming. The British are coming.

00:07:01
Speaker 5: The Red Sox could announce that they're back in the game with this signing and you know, herald him as the next big Poppy. But even I find that a little a bit of a reach with the money they're talking about.

00:07:15
Speaker 2: Right, guys, we want to mention the Shipe Vintage Sports is giving away this sweet Phillies Mitchell and Ness hoodie. You can win it for free. It's a giveaway folks from shy Vintage Sports. You go to ship sports dot com backslash t p s. They're gonna have this drawing, I guess over the weekend early next week.

00:07:38
Speaker 1: We'll announce the winner on the show.

00:07:40
Speaker 2: So go to shivesports dot com tps backslash tps to enter free Mitchell and Ness giveaway.

00:07:47
Speaker 1: It's pretty sweet.

00:07:48
Speaker 2: Shop shy vnted Sports for all the Philly sports fans on your holiday gift list. Visit them in Center City, Wayne, Westchester and they have a brand new store in Ardmore. Can also go to Shy Vintage Sports dot com. And here's the thing, guys, use the promo code the Philly Show and you can get fifteen percent off anything in the store, online, in the store or whatever.

00:08:08
Speaker 1: So nice. That's that's pretty good.

00:08:11
Speaker 6: It's a sharp hoodie which I think you got to go over on to the YouTube channel to see it, right.

00:08:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta go on his YouTube.

00:08:18
Speaker 2: Tant's a blue hoodie, red big nice red Phillies logo on the front. And uh, it's pretty pretty cool, pretty cool.

00:08:24
Speaker 1: So uh.

00:08:25
Speaker 2: And then also Jim Sporting and if you're watching us on YouTube, he's got our Philly Show t shirt, which you can go to the Phillyshow dot com. It'll take you to the site and you can get a Philly Show T shirt. So we've had some people picking those up, which is kind of cool. Maybe we'll see some of those at the ballpark. At the ballpark this year, they're.

00:08:46
Speaker 4: Starting to go fast.

00:08:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm watching the I'm watching the inventory going up.

00:08:54
Speaker 6: A few more.

00:08:57
Speaker 1: That's a great problem.

00:08:58
Speaker 4: It's a great problem.

00:09:00
Speaker 2: It absolutely is. Jim, you must be pumped though, because sticking with Juan Soto, you get to keep that nice blueberry colored sneaker that you said you were gonna eat.

00:09:11
Speaker 1: When do you have it on?

00:09:17
Speaker 2: There we go, Jim, Jim, Jim months ago. Oh my gosh, that would have been such a great episode, Jim swallowing down the soul of his blue blue sneaker.

00:09:34
Speaker 4: We haven't had an announcement that, you know.

00:09:36
Speaker 2: That's a great point. Okay, So say so, the Phillies have not met with jan So okay, they have not made an offer to Wan soa. They didn't really seem to be it didn't seem to be a.

00:09:46
Speaker 1: Lot of urgency to meet with them. You know.

00:09:49
Speaker 2: Then this past week or whatever, why not just go all right, let's let's call up Scott and let's throw him a proposal. Is that just is that just bad faith? Is it just a bad look?

00:10:02
Speaker 5: You know what?

00:10:02
Speaker 1: That could happen?

00:10:03
Speaker 4: Interestingly enough, I mean, Scott Boris has sort of gone through this regular role with the Phillies several times lately. They've had some you know, some players. They know a lot about the history and the future of the Phillies and where John Middleton's at. So I don't think that this Phillies were necessarily one of those teams where Sodo needed to be wined and died. He knows, he's played against the Phillies. He's been, he's seen, he's seen right October, He's seen all this stuff. He knows how the players are treated in Philadelphia, which is second to none. So I don't know that the Phillies really even had to go through that whole process like some other teams that really don't know that. You know that Scott Boris doesn't know that the organization, et cetera, et cetera. I'm sure he's feeding Soto a lot of information about who they are and what they are, and he knows that through Bryce Harper as well. So I just feel like they didn't really have to go through that with Sodo. And I mean, listen, don't be surprised that they don't maybe fire out a number. You know, they did talk about Yamamoto last year. You know they would go to different lengths to get a player of that caliber, and you're talking about a player of that caliber, if not better, and Soto and so hey, it's possible that we get there on Sunday at the Winter meetings and or the Phillies get there, or at some point somebody you know, tries the number out there from the Phillies and the guy considers it. Who knows. I just don't feel like that that's going to fit into their scheme. But hey, it's a possibility. There's it's remote, it's very remote, but it's a possibility.

00:11:39
Speaker 2: Well, Jim, you I think you were the first person to throw out this theory, and I love the theory because I think it makes a lot of sense. You said this last week when we were talking about Juan Soto that you know, you.

00:11:48
Speaker 1: Throw out six hundred. I mean you've kind of touched on it.

00:11:51
Speaker 2: Six hundred and sixty million dollars, and all of a sudden, Bryce Harper, who's looking for contract negotiation, you know, one so that when you know, Phillies offer one six hundred, he goes, those are the Mets at six sixty. And now Scott goes, hey, Bryce, yeah they offered one six hundred. Yeah, maybe we'll use this and get our negotiation going.

00:12:11
Speaker 7: I mean that's all of a sudden, you know, Bryce looks around and feels, you know, like he's put a lot of fannies in the seats, and he's helped them win a lot of ballgames, and all of a sudden he's feeling a little underpaid.

00:12:24
Speaker 5: So it becomes a complication. You know, maybe we're overstating it. I don't know, but if we're a baseball podcast, we talk about stuff and it's interesting to talk about, so you know, who knows.

00:12:39
Speaker 4: I feel I feel like that didn't that sort of spelt like a lead balloon when it was kind of floated out there last year. And I think the Philly fans, I think that the Boris camp, and and I also think Bryce probably realized that that that doesn't play well in Philadelphia. You've already under a contract, you're making a tremendous amount of money. You haven't brought a championship to Philadelphia yet, and so that that may not play well. Now, he may feel like he's being slighted, and he may feel like he's not getting the love that that's necessary. But no one put it gun to his head to sign that contract. And at the time, it was a sort of a historical contract, and you know, things change over the years, and it was clear that that it got changed with Shoeo Tani. He single handedly changed the market and pushed it where it is today because you would not see these numbers coming out for Solo right now if you didn't see those numbers for Personal Tani a year ago.

00:13:39
Speaker 5: Ruben, let me ask you, like, because you were in those conversations on the executive level at the stadium, is there a certain like common sense factor to all this, Like, hey, look, we know this thing's going north with six hundred million dollars. It just doesn't fit us. We're not going to just throw out an offer for the sake of throwing off an offer, because that just wastes people's time. And we have left Field and both Penn and starting with we have a number of issues to worry about. Do you ever get to the point where you just sit around and say, let's not you know, we've spent a lot of money, we are not a cheap team. We are committed to winning. This doesn't fit where we are right now. We're just not gonna waste people's time. Does that ever come up?

00:14:26
Speaker 4: I think it does, Jim. I think that there's a level of just the way John Middleton operates. I think he feels like eos it to the fans to at least explore these things. But at the end of the day, I'm sure that he's had some discussions with Davin Browski in the front office and and John Middleton have gotten together and the ownership groups have gotten together and had chats about, you know, the plan and how to execute it and you know, what really is best for the team moving forward, not just today but for tomorrow. And you know, there is there's got to be some there's got to be a level of sensibility and has also got to be a level of viability because you know, you want to make sure that you're viable for a long time. John Middleston doesn't want to win one. He wants to win several. And you have to have some balance when you're talking about, you know, building a ball club. Just look at the way Pat Kill extended over the years. I mean he's worked around the edges as well as anybody to get the certain pieces that have you know, worked for him to have championship caliber clubs.

00:15:30
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00:16:34
Speaker 2: So chatted with Dave Dombrowski earlier this week, just real briefly, just to kind of catch up, and he doesn't talk specifics on players guys as you know and most most GM's president of Baseball Operations do not. But I did ask him, have any of your priorities changed, just to kind of see if they've he's rethought any of his thinking. He said, no, everything I've said in October and again at the GM meetings is still the same. We're looking for an outfielder, somebody that can play left field or center field, with Brandon Marsh playing the other spot most likely. He said, We're looking for a right handed late inning reliever, and we're looking for somebody a number five starter that can take up the bulk of the innings until Andrew Painter arrives. So nothing really new there, but uh, you know, which kind of goes back to the Wan Soto stuff that it didn't really fit into their their their plan of attack. He did say that they're probably only looking for or looking to acquire one right handed reliever because I said, well, you have Estevez and Hoffman. Do you feel like you need to replace both of them? He said, well, probably just we're probably just looking at getting one. And that might be because I guess maybe the payroll situation. You know, they're they're projected payroll right now on fangrafts Fangrafts dot Com is two hundred and eighty two million. It's the second highest payroll in baseball right now.

00:17:53
Speaker 6: And that's the third.

00:17:55
Speaker 2: It's a million dollars over. The third luxury tax. The fourth one, which is a one hundred and ten percent penalty for every dollar spent is over is three hundred and one million. So they're they're pushing, they're gonna be pushing up to that fourth luxury tax. And then when you pass that number, oh baby, it gets it gets expensive.

00:18:14
Speaker 1: It gets expensive, and.

00:18:15
Speaker 4: It also has some uh, you know, implications and repercussions regarding the draft and stuff. I mean, you start messing with some of those numbers, it's it becomes you know, it's your sustainability and your ability to continue to have success. It hurts it, There's no question about it.

00:18:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, the uh you know, Austin Hayes.

00:18:38
Speaker 2: I asked Dave about Austin Hayes, and again, no surprise, they non tendered Austin. He's like, well, you know, listen, it didn't work out. We made a big trade for him. We thought it was gonna work out. We didn't get the player we thought. But when we looked at it and the things that we need to do. If we brought him back at the salary, he was probably going to make it really kind of hams you know, kind of hamstrung us a little bit in terms of everything else we can do again.

00:19:01
Speaker 1: So, uh yeah, that's why Austin Hayes is not back.

00:19:03
Speaker 6: But so give me your give me your gut feelings. Headed to Dallas next week.

00:19:10
Speaker 5: It just feels like SODA's gonna have a big show there in Dallas, Like decision unveiling press conference, Scott Morris in a fresh, crisp new suit, a lot of light bulbs and cameras going off. But that will break the log jam, and teams are gonna have teams that were budgeting for soda, We're gonna have bulging wallets, and players that were waiting for soda are gonna be ready to jump at things and offers whatnot. And I would think this logjam could is going to impact the Phillies that they could be busy. Do we think the Philly is going to be busy next week?

00:19:52
Speaker 2: Well?

00:19:52
Speaker 4: I think I think the Phillies are going to be busy, But Todd, what do you think?

00:19:55
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, I think they're gonna be busy.

00:19:57
Speaker 2: I feel like they're just kind of with I think they But what I understand the same thing is that they've been kind of waiting for some of these other pieces to fall because that is impacting maybe a trade that they want to make with a certain team or a free agent they want to pursue with a certain team. So yeah, I think you can see something happen next week at the Winter Mings.

00:20:17
Speaker 1: I just I just have that feeling. There's there's a lot of.

00:20:21
Speaker 2: Mentioning and discussion of the Phillies being kicking the tires on Alec Bohm. There's a report in Seattle about Alec Bohm and the Mariners. You know, the Astros are trying to maybe trade Kyle Tucker and Ryan Presley, and you know, not necessarily, all these guys are fits, and all these teams are fits. But it seems where there's smoke, there's fire, and I think the Phillies are kind of waiting for some of those pieces of drops so they can jump on some stuff.

00:20:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think you're gonna see more. I believe the Phillies will be more active on the trade market than they will just because of the payroll situation that we just discussed. I think they'll be a bit more active on the trade market than they will be on the pre agent market. Just my feeling that they're going to have to try to make some some interesting trades and possibilities with some of the talent that they have in their minor leagues and maybe some of their major leagues, to try to move pieces around to get to where they need to be. They have some things to address, and uh, and I think that's the trademark is a way to go.

00:21:22
Speaker 6: Sounds like a possible future podcast, Todd maybe.

00:21:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, well, well we did.

00:21:29
Speaker 2: We did ask our Philly show family to submit us some trade proposals. So we're going to be back tomorrow and and kind of break some of those down. But real quick, guys, I do want to mention, as we're talking about what the Phillies are going to do next week at the Winter Meetings in Dallas, all three of us will be there.

00:21:46
Speaker 1: Will be we'll be together.

00:21:48
Speaker 2: Ruben will be on the set of MLB Network, Jim and I will be hanging out like losers in the lobby.

00:21:56
Speaker 4: I'll come hang with you guys.

00:21:58
Speaker 6: Yeah, rub will be with all those big buddy's, big time.

00:22:04
Speaker 5: Yeah.

00:22:05
Speaker 2: But so while we talk about the Phillies and Dave Debrowski making all these big moves, Sunday night is a big night for the Phillies.

00:22:11
Speaker 4: We do.

00:22:12
Speaker 2: Dick Allen is on the ballot again for the Hall of Fame.

00:22:18
Speaker 1: He's fought.

00:22:18
Speaker 2: He fell a vote short in twenty fourteen. He fell a vote short in twenty twenty one. He's back on the ballot again. This has to be the year Dick Allen finally gets in. It's like thirty years over due. What do we predict? I think he's in this year. I think it's people have made enough of a case since what a travesy is that he's not in that. I think this year the voters in that committee are finally go, we got to put this guy in.

00:22:44
Speaker 1: This is ridiculous.

00:22:45
Speaker 6: Well it shouldn't be. We gotta put him in. It's like he deserves it.

00:22:48
Speaker 1: It's time, you know, right.

00:22:52
Speaker 5: It was really disappointing he didn't get in what they I think because of the pandemic they had to move back in twenty twenty to twenty one, a year if he passed away a year after his numbers retired by Phillies. I was very disappointing. He missed by one in twenty twenty one. I missed by one in twenty fourteen. It just feels like it's time. It feels like it's long overdue. I wish he was here to enjoy it. But to me, it's just indisputable. You know, we talk about Hall of Fame standards, and we often talk about voters often talk about dominating an era. Okay, from nineteen sixty four to nineteen seventy four eleven seasons, only Billy Williams and Hank Aaron had more extra base hits. Only Hank Aaron had a higher slugging percentage, and only he Hank Aaron had to hire ops. And if you want to go you know, modern statistical viewpoint, in that eleven year span, he was like number one in baseball in ops plus. So you know, this guy was a slugger and a slugging machine. I'm always enthraled by his nineteen sixty sixth season. I go back and I look at it. Sometimes he was fourth in the MVP voting. Roberto Clemente, Sandy Kofax. I think Willie Mays were ahead of him, but Dick Allen's you look at his line some year and or his numbers sometime in nineteen sixty six. It was like a Hall of Fame career in one year. But you know, I really hope Sunday Night brings good news for Dick Allen, his family.

00:24:28
Speaker 6: I got to know his brother pretty well, who just passed away.

00:24:31
Speaker 4: Hank was really wonderful man, wonderful and beautiful, longtime, longtime scout. I think he was with the Milwaukee Brewers.

00:24:39
Speaker 5: He was with He spent a lot of time with the Astros at the end, and he used to He must have lived in the DC area, because he scouted a lot out of National's Park and you'd always run it to him and a big hello.

00:24:49
Speaker 4: Sweet man.

00:24:50
Speaker 5: Sweet is the right word. And we lost him a couple of years ago. I wish he was around, and I just hope we all get to see it. A lot of people push for it. Mark carfrogno Froggy has really trumpeted it and pushed it. And John Middleton has been a huge force behind this, retiring his number and eloquently speaking about Dick's greatness and idolizing Dick as a kid growing up. So boy, I hope we get some good news Sunday night, and it's to me, it's not just fixing or wrong or making somebody feel good.

00:25:24
Speaker 6: It's deserved.

00:25:25
Speaker 1: Well, no doubt, no doubt.

00:25:27
Speaker 4: I have to say something about how my dad, he played right next to him for several years with Philadelphia, and that wasn't doing in an era there's some really really phenomenal players, and my dad played with and against. You know, the Willie Mayses and the Hank Aaron's, we know about them, the Roberto Clementes, and you know, he even played with Mickey Mantle. My dad said he lined up those players in a really interesting way and thought that Willie Mays was the man Number one for him. He felt like Hank Aaron was number two because Hank could do a lot more than just hit home runs. He was a really talented baseball player all the way around. And the basis well, did a lot of great things. He had Mickey Mantle and then Roberto Clemente, but then right behind them, I mean literally right behind them, he had he had Dick Allen. And that's pretty damn high praise. I mean, you're talking about some of the greatest players who've ever got a chance to cross the lines. And uh, and my dad thought he was one of the most dynamic players he's ever been.

00:26:29
Speaker 2: Some of the most iconic. He just mentioned there, Ruben and Dick Allen right there, you know. So that's cool. So we'll see uh Sunday night. Dick Allen, he should you should get in. He deserves to get in.

00:26:40
Speaker 4: That's his career.

00:26:41
Speaker 1: And we'll be back tomorrow too. Uh.

00:26:44
Speaker 2: And we're going to break down some of your trade proposals for the Phillies. So we'll talk to you guys later.

00:26:49
Speaker 6: Smell lad boys.

00:26:51
Speaker 4: Jim.

00:26:51
Speaker 9: The Philly Show is brought to you by the Foul Territory Network. Subscribe to The Philly Show on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. If you like us, give us a review, follow us on Instagram, TikTok x, Facebook, and threads. Find Rubens analysis, before, during, and after Phillies games on NBC Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports Radio ninety four, WIP Morning Show, and MLB Network. Find Jim at all pH l y dot com. Find me at MLB dot com, the Phillies Beatnewsletter, and MLB Network

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