Episode 13 - Noelle Scaggs of Fits and the Tantrums (10-6-16)

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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the episode thirteen the Bobby Cast. I just uh the word we are we're moving over. So if you search this on I Heart Radio, just search Bobby Cast one word and all the episodes will be up. And for the time being, it'll still be up on the on demand channel, but after I think episode twenty or so, then it'll just be on the Bobby Cast channel. That's right, Mike, right, all right, So, and I appreciate you guys. This has become the largest podcast in in country music. And the cool thing is we don't just have to have country artists on. We've had actors and you know, today is cool for me because it's it's cool when I get to bring in people that I'm a genuine fan of Noel Skags from Fitsing the Tantrums this yere, I do know. So here, let me I like to do a circle. So we're gonna start, and I want to start with the circle of how you and I met, and then now musically, and then just kind of go around because you have it's such an interesting story. So first, this is the story of how I'm all the Atriots were playing the Super Bowl. I think it was Patriots and Seahawks. Yes it was. It was the year I cried after a Green Bay lost and and I'm like, hey, I'm having a super Bowl party and I never have super Bowl parties. I never have anything in my house. And this is, by the way, this is the last dame of my house. It's a desas as you walked in, you saw it like it's a disaster. Right, It's not bad, it's really great now, but it's like all plywood everywhere. There sawdust everywhere. I kind of was like tunnel vision because I heard don't look around everywhere. Yea. So this is the last day here in this place. But two super bowls ago, I had a party and Nada, who works on the show, and it's obviously a close friend. She shows up and you're with her, and Nada just has a lot of friends, and we kidnaa because she has friends that we don't know. She's the only one in our group that has all these friends that we don't know. And we're all really close to Nada, but not to our producer has like a hundred friends that we've never seen before in our lives. She'll have an Instagram with forty people and we're like not a We don't know any of them, and she's the only one of all of our group that we just because she's she's cool, right, We're not that cool. So Nada shows up with Oil and I'm looking at no Weel and I'm like, she looks so familiar. I'm watching the game. I don't say anything about it, and I look over at Nada and I say, hey, Nada, I know her, Like have you brought her? And we hadn't met, we had never met before, and I'm like, not, have you brought up the student? And she was like, no, this is my friend. And I was like from fits in the tantrums And for a minute, I was like, oh, I just saw them like play and so I kind of geeked out. And I didn't tell you about that because I don't want I don't want to not be cool. But I was like, that's crazy that you're so Anyway, since then, it's become a lot more normal because now you're at you live in Nashville now, and you hang out a more. I hang out and I get to watch snapchats here snapchat not a snapchat, and you're around. But that's the first story where I was kind of like, that's crazy, because um, I saw you guys play Austin City Limits. Yeah yeah, wait the first year or the probably the first year, yeah, probably the first year. And I was a fan then. And for me, you know, I do this massive country show now, but I've done a national alternative show. I've been a national pop show. I just love music and so when it comes to a group like you guys, that's just so eclectic. And I would play you guys in the alternative station that I was on. Um, you know, I was just a big fan. And so anyway, that's how we met the very first time. That was that's a weird story. Um, so let's start with right now and hand clad. This is a song that you guys have right now and so maybe you guys have heard that we played this on our show. Yes, and thank you for that, because an Otto would tell me, like, Bobby has played your song. We played every morning. I love I love it incredible. Thank you. Yes, I just won't say I'm not like I won't go, hey, I'm not a fan. Yeah, but I won't say I'm a fan if I'm not. If that makes sense, yes, I get that. So no, and you are so in fits of the tantrums just before I start playing songs here as they have all of you guys, it's like you're the lead, you're the co lead singer. Yes, So what does that mean? We basically trade roles. You know, we're either singing duets together or it's you know me, kind of like hyping up the crowd, and it's really double vocals. It always has been, I think because of the beginning of her career, when we were doing the EP and stuff like that. I came in on the end of the EP being created, so it was kind of like people trying to figure out where their positions were. And as we kept touring, he realized that, oh, I can't she can't be a backup singer because that's not good thing. I'm not. Yeah, thank you, and not just your vocals, but your presence is too good, which is something that you the presidence is Listen, there are a lot of great singers, yeah, but there aren't a lot of great singers that have great presence and so and I think that's that's a place where you really shine. So here's handclap, by the way, which we've played on our show many times. It's a big country song. By the way, We've played many. It's amazing in the city. Just so you have the song. Whenever you guys like have this song and you put it together the first time or you're like cutting it as a demo, it doesn't sound like this, obviously, what does it sound Did you say a couple of guitars? Is it a keyboard? Well, it's it's crazy because this particular song, I wasn't even there for it. Uh. We co wrote it with this guy Sam Hollander, who's actually really big songwriter um that I got to meet as we were going through the process of creating all of these songs. Fits and him were in the studio together. And if I know anything about Fits, he writes, we write exactly the same. He came up with a really cool beat first, that was it. It was just like drumbeat and then keyboards. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it was, because we write exactly the same. For me, I'm always moved by rhythms first, and then I get my little hands on the keyboard and start part, you know, pulling out parts and stuff like that. And uh, if I know anything about Fits, that's exactly what happened because the beat is so strong, you know, so when he actually sent the shell of the song together one, I didn't understand what he was saying. You know, I'm like the first listener of like lyrics and stuff, and I was like, I can't quite make out what you're saying in the words. So that's you know, like, but the beat is hot, and all I wanted to do was sing on it so you would get this and it would be like nothing that does exactly gibberish, so kind of kind of the melody, but the beat was really exactly such a such a good song. But you could tell it was, yeah, like for the minute you heard it, you know, it's one of those songs like both of us, you know. When Fitz sent me the initial idea before everything was you know, kind of put together as far as lyrics and where we were going to go with the song, you know, it was kind of like this is immediate, like I know exactly which harmonies need to go where. You know, it was like let me get in the booth, now, let me fly to l A. Because I was here in Nashville when he sent the demo over to me, and I was like, this is really different for us one, you know, because now we're like kind of reaching into the pop realm more so than alternative kind of the pop electro different than believe They're different, yeah, way different sounds. So it's like, Okay, now we're gonna stretch here. How do I bring the fits and the tantrum thing that people are used to kind of hearing so we're not shell shocking our fans, you know. So I had to think about it in the in the creative process of actually getting into the room and singing and making sure that our voices were working together. And you know, you were still kind of getting that fits and fits in the tantrum sets, you know, sound even and though the music had kind of changed a little bit more forward thinking. So it finally happened. You guys did Dancing with the Stars two weeks ago. Yeah, and so that song, though weird to play live because it's so electronic or no, no, it actually pulls off. You know. It's it's it's incredible about the guys in general, everybody in this band. We know how to make things organic, you know, whether it's you know, creating production elements and making them sound really good and alive, you know kind of atmosphere. That's something that we do really really well. And it's because we are so nit picky, you know, it's like, that's too much. Let's take this out. It sounds a lot better, you know, for the drums to take over this part live, even though it doesn't do it on record. You know. It's it's really about being meticulous and how you want to appear to the public, you know. And we never wanted to be that band. It's like push buttons and only hit, you know, hit and he just plays the kids want to be a bunch of tracks just exactly exactly. You got the no guitar thing, like, no guitar like, so talk about that for a second, because you have a band and you don't have a guitar. Yeah. Um, definitely in the beginning stages of us writing songs, you know, coming down to the way it fits and I write. We both write on piano, you know, that's that's thing. Yeah, I don't play it really well, but it's the one thing that I understand. I try playing guitar. It didn't work out for me. Hurts It's very painful and human literally physically hurts me. So I was a lot better on piano. Um, it's the same with him, you know, sit down. I come up with melodies better in that in that atmosphere. And we really wanted to say something without using the most used instrument and all of music, to see if we could actually pull it off, you know, and that because we don't really write with guitars, it didn't make sense for us to have a guitar player coming in and you know, noodling and doing all of these things. And what we found is this really distinct vibe that we were getting with having horn arrangements in addition to the vocals. So the horns kind of like taking that percussive element that you would find with a guitarist, you know. And and that's what I said, you guys. A part to me though, early two was the horns, the vocals, and like for example, I mentioned the walker a minute ago. It's just different instruments, a lot of sense, a lot of sense. What you guy, what is this your biggest song? This is one of our biggest songs that not in my league? Yeah? Yeah, Like I heard this one played at like ball games and stuff. They'll play this with the That's when you know, you kind of got a big song whenever that they're playing it for a crowd somewhere. Yeah, they ever walk in the mall, it's something that and they're playing one of your songs because you guys are cooling. You guys are cooling up, and you can go into like an Express and they're playing Fit in the room. It often happens to me at the CVS stores every time I'm like Q tip buying one. Was like one of my friends. I was like, hey, yeah, I know, I was going over Fits in the tantrum. She was like, I love money Grabber like that. Yeah, that's that's few years old thought record. Even with this, it's got that old school a lot of Motown stacks, kind of you know, eighties new wave. That was really the vibe we were filling when we were creating this. That record, you know, was what we grew up with. Things that sounded amazing on fits his voice because he was really just starting to find his voice when that album was created. When we started getting together and we started actually working on Money Grabber. When you're talking about a song that changed significantly, that song had like maybe three or four different c section ideas that we had come up with until we finally got to the bridge one two and had a singing bridge, it had instrument bridge, it had I don't know what else didn't work on there. But we went back and forth and we worked on this song before it was actually done. I think we had gone back maybe three or four different times with different drafts of just the bridge section alone, because we couldn't nail it. We couldn't figure out what was missing. It's interesting with you guys because just hearing how the band was put together, it was yeah, and you can kind of tell a story where it was like, hey, you know this person knows this person. You guys got together in like week you were doing a show and then you guys were just kind of a band. So how did the group come together? Our saxophone player, James King, actually went to school with fits. James and I knew each other from my previous band because he had come in and done horn arrangements on two of our songs on that record, and then later on after I had left, I would say probably about two years later, we ended up going on another tour together because I was asked to kind of like sit in as a lead for a Scion tour that they were doing with all these like crazy hip hop artists and uh he and I were part of that unit, and I led the band for our opening set and then would do kind of like back up like I would say, more sample driven kind of stuff for the hip hop artist that we were backing up. Anyway, So maybe like six months later after we had done this tour, I get this random message from James and he's like, Yo, you know, I just finished up this project with a really good friend of my name Michael, and we are looking to do the live show. I know you left your last band. I'm not sure if you'll be into it because it's kind of a backup thing, but will you listen to it? I'd love to hear what you think they approach as a backup singer for the band. They wanted me to do a backup session or basically one show. That's what we were looking at. One show. Will you do it? Sure? I don't know, let me see what it sounds like. And there was a song on the EP that they sent over called Darkest Street, and that was the song for me that was like, oh, the is really special, Like I can totally hear what he's trying to do, and I feel like it's going to do something really cool. So I went in to the rehearsal maybe like three months later, and uh we started singing together and he had I kind of looked at each other and it was just exactly like the record. It sounded exactly like the record. And uh, after that, it was kind of like he just walked out of the room for a bit, like we had a break, and you know, he comes back in and he's like, hey, So I finalized the booking of you know, Hotel Cafe. I didn't know it hadn't been booked chet I thought it was we were already doing it, and I guess he called and said, yeah, I want to do the show. So we end up doing the show on five songs. Like it was like, how are you going to pull a little of five songs set off? We've never done that before, you know, and we stretched out things and it just became, you know, this really cool energetic situation and uh, you know the feedback that I had gotten from my manager after we you know, kind of because he had our first manager come into the show because he was interested in seeing what she thought she was an A and R. Warner Music group at the time, and she comes and, you know, she and I had talked about the history and she's like, I didn't think that it was going to be as cool as it was until I saw the life set, you know, because she had never really heard music being done like that. She didn't quite get it. And that was a lot of responses that we had gotten from people just on the EP in general. They weren't quite sure what it was supposed to be. If it was supposed to be like the Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings sound, or if it was supposed to be like Mark, you know, like it was just wasn't it was just him at the time, it was just like the sound that was created. But then when you heard it live and you saw us together, it kind of made sense. He's like, oh, that's what I see what he's going for. And then after that we just started recording, you know, him, him and I would get into a room together. We wrote picking Up the Pieces Together, which was on the very first record, and that was like a very first duet song he and I had ever done. And it was bare bones, like when he sent handclap over the same bare bones, and I came up with my verse and I was like, it'd be cool to kind of have this like you know, Tammy Terrell, Marvin Gay kind of you know, call and response like it's yours yeah, that kind of thing. So we did that together and it that for me, I think, really solidified us as a duo versus it being like I'm just going to feature on his record because it wasn't gonna last very long if that was the case for me, because I had other goals in my life, in my career, and it just really made sense and people heard it and it translated, and as that progression happened with our recording, we took that onto the stage and that's what you see today when you go to you know, see his performance, and I saw, yeah, yeah, so let's let's let's kind of go back a bit some interesting things. Is and so you sang on this song? Yeah? So yeah, you're the background vocals on Let's Get a Start with the Black Eyed Peas. Yes. So how did this come about? So? I used to date a guy that grew up with will Am and he would they He was actually in a band called the at Band Clan, which was basically the original Black Eyed Peas. Um. He was one of the original members. And after they kind of you know split up, the Black Eyed Peas formed and I met him around the time Black Eyed Peas, just before they before, because just before it was just a black Like yeah, this was like Kem Hill. Kem Hill was the singer and they had an entirely different band set up, and I was hanging out those guys every day, like I just go to the studio and you could find me. It was like normally kind of I was really shy, and I had always kind of been like that, Like I'd hang out with all these crazy hip hop artists and I was just watching and learning, and it was mostly to kind of fine tune my life performance and the way that I approached songs because I was always into hip hop music and really brought that into the way that I write lyrics, you know. Um. So anyway, I would always be caught in the studio like kind of hanging out and Will was like what do you do? And I'm like I'm like, well, I sing and I write, and he was like you do. And I played him a bunch of songs that I had written, and he was like you wrote that. He was so shocked, like no idea, this like little girl like sitting in his studio and stuff. And then when they started to go to recording the Elephunk record, that's when they were going through the transition of if they were going to stay with Interscope, you know, sign over with Round Fair. They you know, they'd let go of Kim Hill Will and her couldn't get along, and they were trying to determine if they wanted me on. They wanted to take me on the original tour because this record was already done. You know. I sang on the original just hanging out in the studio and we'll heard me doing like you should do that. And I would throw ideas out if I heard something that somebody wasn't you know, filling, I was like, oh, well you should do this, and I'd saying he was like, why don't you go do that? You know, and he would put me in the booth and that's how I would get all these like songs Dexter's lab and I did a lot of stuff throwing out ideas in the room. And I've met Well a bunch of times, like he's such a cerebral guy he is. He is like almost to the point where it's like, wow, he's such a cool geek. He's very cool geek. He really to watch once and he sat down with me and explained this and listen. I didn't I didn't even know what he was saying. It was like, you look at this is the future. He said, don't even just watch, it's the future. And I was like okay, and he started going through the little parts of the watch. I had no idea what he was talking about. And I said to fake it because I was like, I don't want to not be interested. And he was so into it, and he was like, in ten years, this is the future. It's basically the eye Watch. It basically was the eye Watch. This was like two years ago. And it gets me in the corner and I go to that thirty minute tutorial and then I thot, I'm gonna give me one. I just said to the hold it. I was like, all right, about to get free watch. It's like all right, Bobby, I'll see you later. And I was like, all right, well, watch out of it. So, uh, let's let's go back to you being a kid. Your dad he was a dj J, so he was on the radio. He was actually no more of a party DJ. He was like in the seventies, like spinning at you know people's clubs and party j Yeah. Yeah, full of vinyls. Okay, So there's a lot of music in your life. Yeah, check it out. I just got a record player today. I got I get credit card propart player. I used my credit card points and I got it today because my credit card point was starting to expire, which I didn't know could happen. I love that thing, and so it came in the middle and it wasn't broken. And I have my favorite James Brown record over there on it, and I was listening to it today and um, like I like records, yeah, because they sound like crap and that's why I like them. Yeah, it's all that static and yeah, it just feels like it's it was created and really upsetting way. And I like all my music upsetting, like I like my song upsetting like. I just like upsetting music. So that's how the Vinyl sounds to me. And so I was I was listening to that. I was so I'm so excited. I just got right before you got here. On So your dad's playing records he's he's doing parties and stuff, and he's exposing you to what kind of music as a kid. I with his record collection, it was a lot of the kind of like funk to do op records, a lot of disco kind of stuff, Like I discovered Parliament through my dad's record collection and the Temptations, Spinners and Aretha Franklin, Tina Marie, who actually ended up being one of my biggest kind of like I was a huge fan of Tina Marie and the songs that she would do with like Rick James and those vocals, and she was like maybe five ft four, yeah, small stature of huge voice, huge voice, huge personality on stage. Um. I was introduced to a lot of that music, and I think for me that kind of developed into my love of the rhythm section. Like I say that I play tambourine in the band and it's like one of my soul instruments in the band that I really play. But also just in writing, like I'm so moved by a bassline, Like I can create a baseline. I can sing a baseline to a bassist and kind of you know, give them an idea visually and you know, sonically of what I'm looking for on a track, and normally that's the driving force to a song that I'm writing. That's you know, not necessarily inside of the band um and I love drums, I love percussion, you know. I grew up with all of that stuff, and my dad just introduced me to singers, you know. So I would like sit down and write every single word to every single song that I listened to that I loved, and I would sing it over and over and over and over until I like nailed every single cadence of that the way that that singer sang the song, and then started kind of developing my own version of the of the tracks as well, and that really gotten me into songwriting. When were you good? Though? Like when did you know? Okay, I'm better than everybody else as far as a singer, as far as singers concerned, Like when were you like? Okay, I have I've been practicing and I'm just I'm better. At what age I think I realized? So there's two parts. I think I realized that I could really sing when I did my first talent show and I got a standing ovation from like nine I think I was nine, like nine or ten years old, and I was so nervous and I sang the song acapella, what's uh this song just Can't Stay Away by um in Vogue sy did. That was high. Yeah, they gave a nine year old standing over. I didn't even know what she was singing about if I had no idea, right, So so you're like wow, I mean yeah, and it's like, man, I gotta have more, you gotta have well. But yeah, for me, that was like, oh, I'm good at performing. You know, it was like the one moment because I used to get bullied in school. That was like the one moment for me where no one could tell me that I was less than them, you know, like ever, and I carried that with me for a long time. Like that was kind of like my performance was my you know, kind of refuge from getting people to see that I wasn't what they were saying I was, you know, because how else do you do that when you're being bullied. You're like, you know, I didn't want to fight and I wasn't into that kind of thing. So performance was what I did. And you grew up and I grew up in l a um My like junior high, like younger years because I was born in Denver. I moved to Light when I was about six. Were you surrounded by a lot of other like talented, famous kids and you know, I don't know anyone. Yeah. Yeah, I had like friends. We would get into like dance and stuff like that, but I'd never I think the very first famous person I had ever met was actually Stevie Wonders, like the last little guy. That's like the last person you should be because I really know, but like they're like three people on that list of Steve how did. My aunt used to be a counselor for adoptive youth an inner city, and she worked for an organization called the Institute of Black Parenting and every year they would throw like a gala and they would invite, you know, celebrities to come through and hang out with the kids and do the whole thing. So I went to one of those events and he was like the surprise guest, and I was like, oh my god, Stevie Water is like right there, you know, and it's like, as I used to listen to his records, I know exactly who he was, you know, so I see him and then Flavor Flavor was there as well, but he wasn't wearing his clock, so I didn't think it was him. I thought he was yeah, I can see that. I thought he was like to be yeah yeah, but I was like you're you were never you know, it's like you'll probably never remember me, but I get to meet like this guy. You know, he like influenced most people, and the people he didn't influence. The people he influenced influenced the exactly, you know exactly. So okay, so you're young, you know you're good. Yeah, there's some similarities, like I can just feel them too. That's kind of how I found myself too. Was like you get the crabby out of you until you find out how not to. And for me, it was to be funny. And that's where I found the control, Like I finally found the control whenever I could finally be. I found my thing that I could do. And so you start singing, and when was it. We're okay, this is what I want to do and I'm going to pursue this. And I would say second year of college. So you go to school like you're going to school. I go to school. Well, it's crazy because I didn't want to necessarily take on a music career and the perform Min's realm. I just loved doing it. It was just something that I loved to do. It was a hobby. I wanted to be the Diane Warren of songwriting like that's. I wanted to write songs for people, and I wanted to help other people gain their careers and be creative in that realm, you know, kind of create groups and stuff. But with that, I had to kind of perform the songs in order for the songs to get heard, um, which always turned into are you doing a record? And like, uh, not really, but I'm glad you think so They're like, no, you should sing that song. So it always became you should sing that song because I can't sing that song like you. I'm like, well, I don't want you to sing the song like me. I want you to sing the song like you and I love the song, so whatever you know. Um, So that's kind of what happened with me. And then it wasn't really until like my second year of college where I finally opened up my singing boys because I stopped singing for a long time. I didn't want anybody hear it. It was like just singing the melody because I didn't want that response, because you were really aim for something I was really going for something else, and you were so good. This is the worst best problem I've ever heard. She was so good at singing she had to stop singing because she wanted to do something else. Like the greatest problem ever. I'm too good at this. I'm just gonna shut it down. I just shut it down. I started us studying music business. I did radio for a bit, like I took a telecommunications course because I wanted to. I was like, I'm just going to play other people's songs, you know, like I have a cool voice. I got to figure out how to make it sound better on you know, like on speaking, because I think it sounds horrible. An I hated it, but yeah, I did that. But for me it was like music business publishing. You know. I learned about the commodity, and then I realized how many artists don't understand that, which I was going to say, so valuable as an artist now that you kind of know, and it all it's all changing to every day and with you know, all of the different platforms. It's like the wild West. There still aren't rules and people are still getting screwed. Artists are getting screwed out of you know, the streaming here and and being me for example, I'm on both sides of it because you know, megan music not a level you are, but making kids records and comedy records, and it's getting streamed, but then I'm also playing it, and so there just aren't rules because it's so new at this point. But at least you know enough to know if I'm you're really in screwed or not. Because a lot of artists they just go in and they're such good artists, that's what they focus on, and they don't put good people around them, and they also don't know and they realize that they're getting robbed at the end of it, at the end of the end of it, which sucks because there are so many artists, I mean, even artists that you and I grew up listening to you hear about those horror stories and how they're publishing got sold off to three or four different people, and you know, they didn't know that. So when they're trying to get a license for something after they're able to get their catalog back, they don't realize that some person that died is still having ownership. They're publishing entity, and this person wants to get as much money as they possibly can, so they're kind of holding up things, you know, versus being smart about it and saying the little goes a long way because it starts to big up to you know, build up to bigger numbers. Once you get that license. You know, it's really and how you kind of build your business. I guess when you when you think about your commodity, it's an odd background to be creative but come from a place of in the creative industry, but in the very analytical side of it that you come from, it's a it's a really posible I don't want to think about that. Most creatives are creative because they don't. They don't want to think about that. Like, you know, creatives are nuts. You're one of these, like one of the weird ones. I shouldn't be doing this act of other people. So as you you're in your second year school and you decide, okay, I'm gonn do this. You start singing again. So what's the what's the goal when you start singing again? Is it to go and be a solo artist? Is it to get a band together? Um? Actually got asked to sing on a chorus for a song. And it's crazy because I wasn't doing it on purpose. I was hanging out. I was dating this rapper dude. I know. They never they never got their deal, unfortunately, not Roll though he could have been. He could have been role um, just bad timing. So I was just in the studio with him. They were working on this song that they wanted to throw on their demo because they had a meeting with like Virgin Records at the time when Virgin existed, and uh, do they even exist anymore? And the very small, very small, very small yes, and even they said, I think just the name even the airlines, not even Virgin. He sold that too. Yes it's still alive, but probably not with the same people. So you sing on a song. So I sing on a song and a snowball for there. You know. I was singing this, uh this like disco song they were sampling and I was just singing along and they were like, whoa, you can sing like had no idea. I've been hanging about with the dude for like a year and a half, no idea that I could sing anything. You just knew that I wrote whatever and anyway, long story short, I do that, and for whatever reason, this song became the song that everybody knew them for in l a you know, in the underground kind of like hip hop circuit. And then from there it kind of became like who singing on that track? And then you know, I had this thing about hanging out with like hip hop dudes or whatever. So did not hang out with a NAZ? Did you sing on a record? Come to my mind? Damian Marley? So that Damian Marley and NAS project that they had done together I got called in for, which, by the way, the guy that called me in was an old percussionist in my my project. When I finally decided to just go for a solo thing and just kind of mess around with stuff when I was still kind of like in college and stuff. That's that's where that project came from. He remembered me. His name Leon Mobley is his name is ridiculous percusitionists. He calls me no, he actually calls another friend of mine to get to me because he lost my number. And then I get this phone calls like, hey, you want to come in and sing for this Damien not you know, Damian Marley Naas project, and I was like what. I was like, how do you get my number? Which, by the way, and I'm a huge hip hop guy like Nas, depending on who you talked to, arguably one of the greatest rappers of all time. Yeah, commercially not as big as some of the ones that people would say is the greatest of all time, but NAS is arguably one of the greatest. Well, he is one of the greatest. But some people put him in number one, you know Nas is that I don't. That's I don't. I would say he's in the top ten for me or top I would say top ten for me too. But I have some friends that are so die hard NAS fans, especially when him and jay Z were like big yeah yeah, and he and NAS was like just going hard. Like that's when NAS really like poked his head out in the commercial world when like the friends that are just huge. But he does have a sound, He has a he has a different sound. He has a way away. When I talk about you know, cadences and the way that people you know speak and in the way that they convey their music, hip hop is like that. And I feel like hip hop now because it's changed so much I feel like with this new era of music, I don't think anyone has a style. They all sound exactly the same to me, you know, I would the most crazy, like I'll give you an example. Uh, and the easy one is like everyone loves Kendrick. For me, it's hard to listen. For me, it's hard to listen to ful Kendrick album because it's so nuts. It's so nuts and it's all over the place. Like Drake is easy to listen to, Yeah, because but but he's Drake is not the best rapper. But if he stopped singing, people want to hear that. I love dreg record and I can listen to a full drag record with Kendrick tired. It makes me tired. I mean to Pepper Butterfly, the whole thing. It's just like, you know, there's horns here, then there's nothing but drunk and then he's humming with a kazoo, and I'm just like, I don't have the middle capacity, but I understand this is on a whole different level. Uh, the same thing even you know, with I was watching today like Chance the rapper, Like I was watching him today and he was playing on stage with a couple of guys in guitar, and it was very common esque. He kind of broke it down commonnesque and it was kind of old school. But he's kind of likes a lot of going, a lot going on in that performance. Did you do you have the performance? I know, I just I just did. I watched it too, and I posted on my Facebook page. And I can't throw it out there in the world because I don't like doing that kind of thing, but I was I felt like you did listening to a But for other reasons, it was just it was a lot. Yeah, and I appreciated it. I very much appreciated it. But for me, it was a lot. Now I wasn't a drink. It's not a lot, but it's awesome. Yeah, I don't need it to be a lot. Yeah, but so so yeah with it. So you're saying, with the hip hop guys, you think a lot of them sounding the same? Right now? I do? I really do. I mean from the singing thing that's been going on since te Pain blew it up. You know, when he doesn't get credit for that, he created that style, he created that effect. That effect is his license, but he got it from Roger and Zapp that's you know what, and what's amazing about Tea Pain. There's a lot of people that he can actually sing. He sings like an angel. He's amazing. He doesn't even need the Auto two. And then of course Kanye did and did the whole and he sang the whole record. I was like, Kanye, come on, but not that was the influence from te Pain and Roger zapp Era. But that was like vo you know, it wasn't Voe Quarter. This was a specific sound that this man put on the map, and no one gives him credit for it. And I find it fascinating. This is what I mean by people kind of you know, give credit where credits do? You know? Don't leave people? Maybe because weren't. Maybe it's because I'm in love with a stripper, doesn't really Maybe everybody knows that I'm not anybody don know the song. I'm saying it because I want the song about that. Maybe he people wouldn't want to give him the credit as being the influencer, but he was, you absolutely right, like he started that sound that everybody uses exactly now he can't get rid of things on all the tracks of saying what the what the same I know, but Draketon start off singing sang rapping, but the people do it. And look, I think for me, like you're talking about style, I'm talking about like people like Black thought from the roots. You know, they weren't necessary like the biggest commercial like success. They had one record I think did really well because they had like Erica Badoo on it at the time and all these different you know, awesome artists that were killing it on radio. A lot of features on that record. But he's one of the most amazing rappers. If you actually, millennials, if you're listening to me right now, if you want to hear real hip hop music, but not real the classic stuff I said, I should say like the classic stuff for me, which when I still put on that record, it makes me feel good and I can see where the influences come from from all these rappers that are here now. There are certain artists when you say that, and it is it's not even just a hip hop, but there's certain artists that if they were alive now and they put out new music today, it would still cut through as new. And with me, you know, the argument is always Tupaca Biggie and Tupac culturally was so much more relevant to Biggie was. However, if you took a Biggie song right now, like right now, and you put it on radio, it would sound like a Brandy rabber like to me of that if you're just taking the product. Nobody was as good as Biggie. He was so far. He was ten years ahead of the game. He was ten years ahead of the game. And I think it's also with his voice. You know, it worked on record, he had this like no one could sound like Biggie unless they were trying to write, unless they were they were emulating his sound. The same thing with like led Zeppelin, Like I think a band like that, you listen to them, and if that came out today, it would be an alternative radio and people would go, thing, this is fresh and new, and there are only a few of those that you hear now and looking back and go day that still sounds like today. It was so far ahead of its time. And I think even with you guys music, it's the same thing. I think at times you guys are ahead. Do you ever think you're ahead of where things are? And I think hurts, and I think that's a scary thing and it hurts you sometimes. It does hurt you sometimes and then you get appreciate it later. But like you know, I mean I can play any of this stuff here, like like even like money Grabber back in the day, like you were back in the day. It sounds like a sixties record and you're like, what in the world is this? This is interesting? And that was our column card, you know runs. I mean it does it sounds like you're in an old studio in Detroit. Yeah, that was that old ribbon micro are using this old crappy ribbon mike. You know. It's up until this record, we recorded pretty much every single song and fits his living room at his old house and Silver Lake, you know. So we got all of the sounds from the floor to the little echoes in the in the room that all cut in, you know, into the tape. But it was just something about this one little mic that we would use, which I thought I sounded wretch it on, you know, like he would play the dry track back and I'm like, you better put like twenty different effects on my voice because that sounds awful, you know, But it worked for whatever reason. When he and I started, you know, kind of mixing the songs with our voices together. It just clicked and there was something about the spirit of I credit that to the microphone and the mixing and stuff, of course, but there's always the tool. There's always one tool that you use that kind of makes everything kind of come together. And I kind of missed that, Mike. It's stopped working after the second record, but we could get a fixed. I missed that, Mike. Uh. Some of the other a little interesting things that you sing. You sing with Miley on a track I did not know. I did not sing with Miley on a track I performed with I'm still getting money off of that show. The show it was some Disney Channel event, not kidding you, Like in Anaheim. It was like this daytime show, like special show, and she performed this is like when she was still doing Hannah Montana kind of stuff, and I was there. It was just one of those random because yeah, because I mean, like I didn't know anything about her, but I don't know. But that's the funny thing about my career. I would always get these random phone calls from people that heard about me through someone else. It had always been kind of a word of mouth thing, you know. It's all the hip hop stuff that I got with the exception of the Black Eyed Peas stuff was word of mouth stuff. You know, people that were fans of my former band, The Rebirth and had seen me performed live and they were like, Wow, would you come in and like work with us? I know you write too, would you be down there like right a chorus for this for this song? And I, you know, worked with all these these rappers that were out of like I wouldn't say the underground, I really call them that because they were producing all kinds of albums at the time. But this record label that's very prominent in l A and the hip hop scene, Stone s Throw Records. I worked with a lot of their artist you know, um Aloe Black did a remix for my band's record for one of our songs nice like you should hear his wife I haven't heard of My wife is a monster. Spent about a half hour, and then we we've had three or four conversations like just off to the side and then email back and forth like such a pleasant it's a good dude, like universe kind of guy, like just you just like you like being around him, like he makes you smile and feel calm, like you wanted to kiss your forehead. Yeah, just like I like that dude a lot. I want to talk about rebirth for a second. Rebirth, um, so this this is this is your band? Yeah, this is my band? So what song? Like I have some stuff up here? How about this journey? And Okay, So now I can hear it, like I can hear the influences in this Yeah, like there is a constant in your music, like in all it is. Yeah, So the rebirth, you start the rebirth and so to give me the brief history at the beginning in the end of this. So I met Carlos, my my bandmate and the rebirth UM at at a show that I sang with with these hip hop dudes. I did some backup kind of stuff for them, and he approached me and he's like, hey, you know, I've been trying to put together this this project, you know, for a while. It's kind of a defunct off of another project that I had done but still haven't really found a singer. Would you come into a rehearsal and just kind of check us out and see what you think. So I go to the rehearsal. It's like in this hot garage in Glendale and there's like six other dudes in there, and I'm like, oh, great, it's gonna be like a dude fest, you know, in here. And I get in there and and I guess he had started working on the bones of this journey and it was just at the time, just instrumental. He was like, yeah, I've been working on this instrumental for a while because they were going to be an instrumental band. He just wanted to Yeah, you're just gonna do a couple of songs together instrumental band. He was like, okay, cool, let me go check it out. They played this and I was like, wow, this is really dope. But it took me a while to kind of commit to the project. I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do any band. I was like, if I'm going to do it, I'm just gonna do Noel's gag solo and that's it. And it was still around the time that I wasn't really like interested in a career like that. I wasn't. And uh, he finally lacks me down by telling me, listen, you know, you're doing all this stuff with all these other guys and blah. Blah blah blah blah, and I'm waiting for you, like what do you want to do? Do you want to try this? And I was like, all right, fine, let's let's let me write those lyrics to journey in and I'll go in with you. So that's what God lyrics with him. And he's such a spacey dude. Now, Carlos is a genius. Like talk about people that are into music and interesting things like roy Airs, Period, earth Wind and fire like he is the man in that in that world. He's also a DJ as well. So straight away, straight away, yeah, I'll be going deep. God, I think it was twenty It's so good, thank you, so good, thank you. So you're saying the national anthem last year? Yeah, very cold cold, Green Baby, Dallas Cowboys. Yeah, so the national anthem is a song, by the way, an awesome song, but a song. Have a lot of friends are artists that are like, it's it's one, it's the worst song is thing, and two there's no wind. You don't win because if you nail it, everyone expects you to nail it, and it's like but if you don't, it's it's a nightmare because you just did the greatest song of our country wrong, So I think I stayed in the middle of that, like here is now. So you're singing the national anthem. And by the way, again, a really hard song is sing because it changes in the it's it's constantly changing alter the song. Is that a nerve racking thing as compared to going on stage and performing, Yeah, it's crazy because first of all, I'm doing the national anthem acapella on national television in thirteen degree weather with jets. I mean, it's just like everything that could be happening in your head is happening at that moment. But when you're on, you're on, so you're kind of like, okay, I'm on. If anything goes wrong, I can't turn back, you know. So it's kind of like I got nervous, kind of looking around and finally realizing where I was standing. It was weird to be nervous during a performance, because again, that's what you do when you're about to sing, and when you're singing, it's really that's the tough thing because it's it's hard to hide that. It's so crazy. Because my vocal trainer, this woman named Valerie Moorehouse, who does a lot a lot of work. She was always telling me, drink a shot of bourbon before you do any show because it kind of helps relax you and it keeps you from doing weird, weird stuff if you are nervous. That was the first time I think in years, I had ever felt that kind of fear. You know, like, wow, if I screw this up, it's going to be the worst of the Internet. And if you nail it, and if you nail it, nobody cares. But if you're in the middle, it's almost awesome because it's like you get the trolls and you get the people that are like, shut up. She sounded amazing, and that's what I got. Whenever you guys play a live show, what's what's the song that gets the biggest pop live show wise? I would I gotta be honest with you. The Walker is still kind of our rowty song. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's also time to it's people have had time to love it. They've had time to love it. I mean, handclaps amazing. We I mean really, I would say good, but it's so new, Yeah, because it's kind of hard with the song and with the record and with the artists. You develop relationships with and so with The Walker, like even me, like if I would, that would probably be the song that would be like that's about Is it my favorite song? No? But what I probably get most excited about, yes, because I've been able to develop a relationship with a song like that, even like money like that. That's way. But it's crazy because they all change, you know. It's like something that I've noticed with us touring, you know, over the last like three months on this album, is that we have such a mixture of fans from the old fans that have been following us since the first record to the fans that discovered the first record at the end of it. But we're brilli into the second album and the until now, and it's amazing. We still have this really crazy cross genre of like demographic, i should say, of people that come to our shows. And what I've been noticing now is people are really familiar with handclap, so it takes them a little a little bit longer to realize that we're playing The Walker, Whereas before the minute we played The Walker, people were like, oh my god, they were like losing their minds. So I think it just depends on the timing like, you're right, you have time to kind of figure it out. But I feel like there are more millennials now listening to this album than we had on our second, so they're very familiar with handclap. They're all really fun to play, though it's got to be a little nerve wracking to style change a bit, because again and and we're hearing just with the fits and intantient stuff, there's a style change in just the music that you guys have done and you have fans, and when you change anything, somebody is going to get irritated always, and you have to keep moving forward or you go backward. So it's all it's almost and it's a gamble every single time, and it's almost it's always kind of like where else are we going to take this? You know, because it's kind of like you're saying, you can't go backwards. But I feel like, because we have at this point, people should know that the fits in the Tantrum sound is going to be the fits, and the Tantrum sound fits, and I are always singing James is playing on the wreck. You know, there's different textures and layers and personality that come out in our music. That I still feel are quite there, even if progressively we're changing as far as what people feel genres are supposed to be. I can hear again as we play stuff from the rebirth, even with the fits and the tantrum stuff, Like I can hear the similarities in your style, like as you say, there's always that, but there's the outside stuff that's always changing. And then people just don't like change. They just don't like change. That's the psychological things too, more than just music. But people just don't like change until they love it. Yeah, then they love it. They're like, I hate I've seen so many comments like this. I hated the song when I first heard it, and now it's the only thing I ever want to hear, Like banks after you like s H I T T. Method. I hate the way that they've got And then the next thing, you know, you're like all upon it. Are you guys getting any of the Oh, you guys get too big for your bridges? Now now you're doing some of the big stuff like yeah, yeah, it's almost like you guys have sold out, like we sell out shows to make money. Like if you got a job and you got a raise, I wouldn't be on your Facebook page being like Jim and accounting. You're selling out, buddy, you took the middle management job because people do that. They're like they do You're selling out. It's like, no, we're working hard to move up in the world. Well, yeah, because we have to. We have to pay our rent. You got to. You have to. You know, we got people got kids. I don't have any, but they have kids. Fool's gold. Here we go, it's the jam. Thank you, next next, next, that's a Fun's gonna be a fun one to do, right, Yeah, it's fun so like big and pounty to me, like it's it's like intense fun. Yeah, that was a fun song for us to ride fits And I um into a producer's house named Dave Bassett who co wrote this song with us, and we started and they always tinker around and they do their thing with production. And I'm always kind of sitting in the corner right now. Stuff. It sounds like you do a lot of sitting and it's observing until it's time. It's like you sit and you watch the pool for four hours and then you do the biggest cannonball, right, everybody's about to go home. Yeah, I come that seems to be the style of Yeah. I think it has a lot to do with me sitting in my room when I was a kid, like by myself, you know, I was always used to just like being a kid in the corner in a room by herself writing. So it's like I try to now bring that out a little bit more when I'm collaborating with people, so they don't think that they're you know, that I'm not contributing, and then when I do, they're like, what, you know, so, what's what's what's the next six months? Like what what's the goal? The next six months? Goal is to get a number one? Yeah, yeah, that's that's our We need to climb we were we're climbing the charts. That's our goal. Do you know where you're at right now? I don't even look at the at the alternative pop charts we're on. Uh. I think we're at a number of sixteen seventeen on hot c really yeah with this with the hand pup. Yeah, I obviously love the song because I played it on freaking country radio and got yelled at by country program directors. But I don't care, like you know, I just don't care. And we're actually on our second single, just went to alternatively. Yeah, up there, I didn't know that one. I'm still I'm still on this one. Yeah. I work out to this song too, It's in my workout. The problem is that actually do the claps. I'm running. It slows me down. Yeah, I work out that. You gotta be Yeah, you gotta you gotta be careful on those treadmills clapping and stopping. Mike, you have any you have any questions for now? Yeah, that song was on a commercial. Yes, yes, and they've actually just asked to extend it because it was doing gets doing so well for them. Well they put Yeah, they put in a license request and you know, we want to extend it for an extra three because you get options decent money when you get a commercial. Is that what you want? Yes, yes, and you want it even more so if you can actually get union out of it too, as like a songwriter, as a singer, as an actual performer on it. You want to get as much as you possibly can because they end and then it's gone, you know, and you hope that you get the next you know, at least like year full of at least five commercials and you're good you know, we've been so fortunate in the licensing game, not knock on all of it, whatever whatever that is reclaimed. You know, we've been very fortunate that, you know, people in that world, in the ad world and the creative world, want to use our music to help better their brand marketing. You know why. I think because it makes your music makes people smile. And that's a hard thing to do period. It just playing something that beat doesn't make people smile. Yeah, but there's a lot of that inside of you guys. Music. It's it's a it's all happy music, but music. I mean, that's that song makes you smile. I mean I heard and smiling right now trying to find it. Mike over there, did you really model R I did? I did. Vanessa Becroft was the artist for the e to White Heartbeat. She did his record release party at this event, and he wanted to do this kind of like live model set up basically mimicking the heart that was on the cover of and at the time I was doing when I was in on the road, I had like a modeling agent that I acquired, you know, for either commercial and what not, and then also a film agent as well, which I still have the agent um and uh. I guess she had submitted my photos and she was like, oh, come in for this audition thing and I didn't know what it was for. You go and you don't know what they're for. I went in and did the photos and they were like, are you okay with being nude? I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever, you know. I leave and then like I think the day later, I got a call and I think the photographer knows you. She said she shot you before in the past, but she really really wants you in this art piece. Are you down? And I was like, well, what is it? And they're like, oh, it's for a live art piece for Vanessa be Croft and I was like what because she's mad. Like I know her work, she's massive, but I didn't know. I met her at my best friend's house at a house party that we had thrown seven years earlier, and you didn't know it was her. I didn't know it was her. I didn't know that she was Vanessa be Croft when I met her. I met her just Vanessa. Uh. And at the time she was introduced to me as a photographer. I knew Vanessa be crawled for her life modeling pieces I didn't know she actually did anything else, you know. Um So anyway, I got that call and I ended up doing that art piece, and it's so funny. I was like, they you had the option. You could wear a wig on your face so nobody could actually see who you are and it's just about the body, or you could do it without and you know whatever people are gonna be walking around, you just be aware of what you want to do. So I was like, yeah, wig on my face. I'm totally fine with everything else. So I did this piece and I can see out of the wig, and I've been kidding you because I think she had me at the front part of the heart next to this like really thin, beautiful like African model, like super model girl, and I'm thinking to myself, I look so chubby right now, like everybody's probably like comparing the two of us. And while I am pops up and I was like, thank god, I have this boy on my face. That's all I think, because I didn't know they were going to be there, you know, it's like him, and then five of our other friends followed behind him, and I was like, oh my god, thank you so much. I didn't even know I was there because after the show I bounced like I was like, I'm out of here, you know. So I have all these weird like little there are a lot, like a lot of weird stories. Last show I bench watched, Um, I just bench finished binge watching Narcos, and now I'm like crazy about The Voice. The new season of The Voice. I watched what do you think? I thought it was okay. I thought it was okay too. It's a little slow. It was a little slow, but I do like the way that they threw in. How they're going to do the third I wondered because just I love history and obviously died and it's a google away like it's not it's not Lincoln shot in that theater, the boat sinks, and like these are things that have happened. Like but I wonder too, like please don't extend these four seasons of it didn't chasing and so but now you know it. Yeah, I don't want tell anyone how it goes into now. But it was a little slow. I did enjoy it once you got into it that you couldn't get out, like you couldn't stop watching, like you kind of need to see more death. What's wrong with us, Like it's because it is it doesn't seem real, but it doesn't seem real. It's it was so bad it doesn't seem really. It's like this odd fantasy line of that that can't be true, but that's real, but it's real. But that's the crazy thing you know about television. It's and it's probably one of the reasons why I don't watch that much of it, you know. It's like I'm probably not like my friend makes fun of me and Trevia because pop culture comes up and I'm out, Like I'm like, I don't know who you're talking about. You know, I don't know what that song is, you know, that on of thing. But I'm so easily entertained that It's really like when I get into a show, I am in it. I don't care how bad it gets, you know, It's like I just want to see a good part of it come out of this process of death that's happening to the show right now? Are you? I mean, you're on the road quite a bit use Netflix. Everything. Is that pretty much your mode of shows or your downloader. I'm kind of addicted to, like law and Order stuff. It's like we get like regular television, So I kind of watch a lot of Marishka Harkit and good. I mean, I figured that's good because they've been on for twenty years, and like your your music kind of dark and sad. I like watching television shows where it's like crime and you know, somebody died and we got to figure it out. Because you watch five minutes of it, you're like, well, I can't not see how this end end up watching like the whole thing. It's like when we got we got um license for episode of Criminal windes Um, which at the time was like my favorite shows like Shamar Moore as like a like a see us whatever the hell he does. I was like, oh my god, this is the most amazing thing ever. Love that show. We got that call, I was like, hey, yeah, they could have it for free. Just just give it the song. It's totally fine. Next thing I know, they're cutting an editing an edit of the actual video in the scene. We're like, oh cool, and we see it the opening scene and just has this on this little TV in the kitchen. I was like, Oh, that's all you're gonna see. Then it turned into a full music video. It was like cut into the scene to the like big screen of money grabber and me dancing and singing and stuff and somebody getting stabbed. It was amazing. That's me. That's unexpected though, and unexpected because we didn't know how they edit was going to be. Well. Uh, and you have a very interesting life and career. That's really cool. Um, thanks for hanging out, thanks for having me and just sitting and talking. It's like I got into the mind of a really creative banker. That is the best description. It's like the hippie accountant. It's like the two things that shouldn't be together are and it makes it even strangely cool. So listen, everybody hand clapped my jam. I hope this thing keeps climbing, and thank you. I'm really happy for you. Obviously, I'm not just blowing smoke guy. The first first day I came out and I was like, holy crap, this song is so good. I gotta play it immediately on country radio faces all over America and so send along my best to everybody. Thank you, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. So we go, go go Sam. If they come around by the music and doesn't buy that, let me say this. By the music. Don't buy the music, don't stream it. Yeah, I always say it. You want to help you artists you want to do yeah, by the music, don't stream it. It's easier to stream it. But if you really like find your few artists that you love and support, you can get it for six cent on iTunes. Yes, you can hag discount in this little six nine cent song. It's uh listen, I can't and we can't go and buy. If you love music and buy every artist you can, but you can take your five or six of that you're super passionate about and support them. And that's what I always say, like, find your middle ground and support the artist because if you don't. Right now, artists getting screwed like crazy, Yeah they are. And then you go on tour. You got tour and you make your money tory, we do, but it's exhausting, and then you travel and cost a lot of money to go on the road. Fits in the tantrums. No else, Thank you very much, gonna go. That has been episode thirteen, and uh, next week we have our our very first ever like a sponsor that's paying to be part of the show. You're on the very very last ever. Cool free show. Yeah, next, we got like somebody that's like, we want to have our sou I don't even know. This thing has gotten so crazy to thanks everybody who listens to it, and I don't even I don't even accept that. I don't accept that congratulations because it's so weird that some people listen to this. I don't even notice that Thank You Episode thirteen is over. We'll see you guys next time. I