The Gift of Rejection with Nona Jones

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Speaker 1: Trigger warning.

00:00:01
Speaker 2: This episode discusses sexual abuse. Viewer discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing sexual abuse, please call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at one eight hundred six five six four six seven three.

00:00:25
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to this episode of Keep It Positive. Sweetie. I'm CHRISTOPHINEE. Hazlet, and today.

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Speaker 3: I have with me none other than Nonah Jonesnonah girl, I'm so excited.

00:00:38
Speaker 1: To have you.

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Speaker 4: I'm so excited.

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Speaker 3: Seriously, Oh my gosh. The first time I ever saw you with the Changed Church last year you preached and I was just like, man, this woman is powerful. Just to hear a snippet of your story, I was just like, oh my goodness. So when they tell me we were having you on.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh. I'm so exciting. Your energy is just lovely.

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Speaker 5: I'm just glad to be here and in the fact that we have so much in common, girl, trying to get these natural.

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Speaker 4: Ashes to get it together.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I love it. I love it.

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Speaker 3: I like to start with a quote or a song, and when I think of you, I think of the Scripture two Corinthians twelve nine. My grace is sufficient for these m for my strength is made perfect in weakness, most gladly. Therefore, I will rather glory in my infirmities, that the power Christ may rest upon me. And we'll get to why I think of you.

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Speaker 1: When I when I read this scripture later on.

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Speaker 3: But yes, so let's talk about Nona Nnah. You are a rare combination of preacher, business executive, author, and entrepreneur. You serve as chief Content and Partnerships Officer of You Version, which I.

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Speaker 1: Wake up to every morning. That's crazy to know that you're behind that. I was like, this is so cool.

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Speaker 3: Yes, leading a global team, and you have served as the head of Global Faith Partnerships at Meta, and you serve on the boards of Christianity Today magazine.

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Speaker 1: Glue. Is it that pronounced it right right?

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Speaker 3: Yes, a tech company that is building a first of its kind platform to connect the entire ecosystem, serving and building.

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Speaker 1: The body of Christ. Yeah. Wow, that is amazing.

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Speaker 4: God is good.

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Speaker 1: He is so good.

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Speaker 3: So just tell me a little bit about young knowing the like, where did you come from? We wanna know all the things you know.

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Speaker 5: It's funny when you gave that scripture at the beginning about God's strength being made perfect in weakness. Like I think people walk into the successful chapter that your life is on and they just assume that's the whole story.

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Speaker 1: MM.

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Speaker 5: So looking at me now, it's like, oh, she musta had a great upbringing. All this stuff, well, well mm. I was born to a mom who didn't even want to have kids mm. And she and my father have been married for like thirteen years when she got pregnant with me, and he was so excited cause he wanted to be a dad m but she was angry, and to make matters worse, halfway through her pregnancy, she started to He started to have some stomach pain and went to the doctor just to have it diagnosed, and he ended up being diagnosed with terminal stomach cancer, and so he fought as hard as he could. He lived until about two mouch side my second birthday, and after he died, my mom moved us across the country. She was chasing a guy who said he would take care of her, but that relationship fell apart after she moved. And so I remember at an early age there was like a string of men that came in and out of her life in my life, and then she settled on a guy who became her living boyfriend. And I did not like him from the beginning, Like I just there was something about him.

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Speaker 1: Hear me, Yeah, kids, no.

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Speaker 5: And that's why every time I even share my story, I always say, look, moms, I don't care how lonely you are.

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Speaker 4: If your children are.

00:03:46
Speaker 5: Not comfortable with somebody, pay attention to yes. And so I told my mom. I was like, I don't like him, but she was like, just give him a chance. He'll grow on you. Well, fast forward, I think a few months her sister passed away and so she had to go back up north to the funeral, and I begged her to take me with her. Not only did I want to be with her, but I just didn't want to be with him. I was about five and a half. Yeah, so I was young, but I remember that moment so vividly as she was packing her suitcase. There are certain moments that are just like etched in your memory, and I remember that one. And the first night that she was gone, he assaulted me. The verson he assaulted me, and after it was over, he said, you better not tell your mom because she'll get rid of you. And so not only was I physically wounded, but now I'm also mentally wounded because I'm thinking, well, I can't tell my mom because she'll get rid of me. So she came back, and I was like a different child. I would say like I was very much so quiet, but when I went to school, I would kind of act out, and so I got labeled as disruptive. I was called a problem child. I had all these labels put on me, and I would get in trouble constantly. He would repeatedly abuse me, and I I worked up the courage over the course of a couple of years to tell her what was happening. And she had him arrested, and I thought that was it. I was like, alright, he's arrested, were moving on, it's over. But on the day of his release from jail, she took me with her to pick him up and brought him back home, and uh yeah, and the abuse resumed. Oh my, and I I think at that point I realized that my voice didn't matter, and so I didn't tell her anymore. And then she became physically abusive and verbally abusive. So there was just all this craziness happening. And at the age of nine, I tried to take my life. And mind you, we weren't at a church going family. I didn't know anything about Heaven, God, Jesus, Bible, church, none of that. But I just figured that whatever was on the other side of death was better than what I was experiencing. And so it was unsuccessful. Of course, the abuse continued.

00:05:52
Speaker 1: UH.

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Speaker 5: At the age of eleven, I tried again and that was unsuccessful. But after that second suicide attempt in the sixth gras a classmate invited me to this thing called church and she disinvited me as her guests.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 5: And I will never forget My home life was so painful and dysfunctional. But when I walked into that church, people were smiling and welcoming. And the very first sermon I ever heard, the pastor said God is a father to the fatherless.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 5: And I remember when I heard that, I was like, well, I don't have my father.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And if God is a father to the fatherless, well who was God?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 4: I'm eleven years old, Like hmm, I wonder who God is?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 5: And that put me on the path to learning more about God. Reading the Bible on my own, I was like eleven reading the Bible for myself.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Like praying and just seeking the face of God.

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Speaker 5: Became a Christian at the age of twelve, and the abuse did not stop. But I think what kind of changed my life was that the knowledge of who God was and the fact that he loved me. That I was not a mistake, even though my mother said she wish she never had me, right, I was not a mistake. I had a purpose, I had a future, I had a hope. That really was the kind of foundation that changed my life.

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Speaker 3: Wow, my goodness, I cannot imagine at that age going through that. You hear so many stories of young women that are just getting t to this age sometimes to even open up and say it that what happened to them. And a lot of times, like when we were growing up, we wonder why our parents wouldn't let us go stay over over so and so's house. Yeah, she knew, like and she was trying to protect us from that. In that now as an adult and you're like, you start coming getting out to get out of there your mom's home. How did that what happened at home also like flow into your relationships.

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Speaker 5: So that is the million dollar question because what I did not know then that I do know now is that situation wounded me deeply. And I you know, now that I've been in like you know, professional spaces and I've been in leadership roles, I can see people show up they're either very aggressive, hyper ambitious, really sensitive to criticism. And there was a point when I would look at those things and be like, oh, something's wrong with them. But I realize now it's like, no, something happened to them. Yes, Because when you, for whatever reason, show up wounded, the things that people say, they end up injuring you. And that's the difference. Like, there are things that can wound you, and there are things that can injure you, right, but when you show up in a space wounded, when somebody speaks against you or maybe you don't get the promotion, and it's like a super superficial thing, yeah, it can actually injure you. And so for me, I would show up in relationships with people, I was like defensive. You know, I could not take criticism because hearing my mother say she never wanted to have me, that she would call me things like fat, stupid, all these things. I internalized it. So when somebody would say something super benign like oh, you know your PowerPoint presentation was off a little bit. Yeah, that would injure me. I think about even in my marriage, like we'll celebrate twenty years in June, which is awesome, But there were seasons in my marriage where my husband would give me feedback and I couldn't take it. I couldn't handle it because it was almost like I would hear her voice in what he was saying, you know, and so that that would create a lot of challenges. But I thank God for victory.

00:09:32
Speaker 4: I thank God victory is possible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so true.

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Speaker 3: In that moment, and during that time when you were even with your husband, was there a moment where you said, I need to seek help.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking because I know a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: I've heard people say I got Jesus, I don't need therapy.

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Speaker 5: Oh no, no, no, no. A therapy is a gift that God has given to us because it is a tool that God works through. It's just like you know, if we have a cancer diagnosis, right, it's like chemotherapy is a gift. It is, right, It's like therapy helps our heart, it helps our mind, it helps our emotions.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, it took a while.

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Speaker 5: Though it took a while for me to seek therapy because I believe I was functional, like you know, and high functioning I'm talking about I've been an executive since the age of twenty three, so for seventeen years, like operating at a high level, but there would be this like this emptiness, this lack of fulfillment where I was successful externally, but the ability to actually enjoy it was missing because of the trauma and the pain of my past. That reminded me, oh, you know, no matter what you achieve, you don't matter, You're not worthy, nobody wants you. Those things would kick up in my mind. Yeah, and they would actually make me pursue more success because I was like, well, if I just get more, then I will finally matter.

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Speaker 4: And that never worked.

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Speaker 1: So you were constantly chasing after that valid be the.

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Speaker 5: First, be the youngest, be the only Those were the things that I felt I needed, because again, there were voices in my head telling me you don't matter.

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Speaker 4: Look, look, your mom took your abuser.

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Speaker 1: Back over you.

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Speaker 5: Clearly you don't matter. And so it's like, okay, well, I got to get the best grades. If I was in an organization, I had to be the president of it. If there was an award to get. I had to get the award, and it was like people would say things like, man, you're a rock star. You are crushing it. You are, But that was because of my trauma. And I have said this. I think the way we respond to trauma is in one of two ways. We can either explode, which is when maybe there's violence there's harm, we yell, we kick, we scream, or we can implode, which is self damage. And so you have some people who have addictions, they have vices, people who maybe are hyper ambitious. People reward that, but you don't realize it's because they've imploded and now they feel like they have to achieve success to matter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a dangerous place to the end. And it's so dangerous when it comes to forgiving. Have you forgiven your mom? How's your relationship now?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's such a great question.

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Speaker 5: I will tell you I went through a process.

00:12:23
Speaker 4: And I'll start at the end.

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Speaker 5: I'll go back to the beginning. We don't really have a relationship because my mom is not safe. And I want to say this, and I hope that it will free somebody when I say this. One of the revelations God gave me many years ago. Is that a healthy relationship requires two sides of one coin. We harp on forgiveness all the time. Yep, you know, like, well, they did the thing, you gotta forgive them, you gotta move on. Forgiveness is required. That is absolutely true. But you cannot have a healthy relationship if all you do is forgive, because the other side of the coin repentance. When there is an offense, I can absolutely forgive that person. I can forgive them for what they did. If they don't see the wrong and what they did, you will not have a healthy relationship because they will.

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Speaker 1: Repeat runt around. It's so far. Oh my god. If they don't see.

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Speaker 5: Them, they're not safe. And so what happens is for my entire life. I would have people say things like I can't believe you don't talk to your mom. I can't believe, Like, who, how dare you not have a relationship with your mom? But these were people who are like you just need to forgive. You need to forgive, you need to forgive.

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Speaker 4: I have the power to forgive.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, But in the absence of repentance, she is not safe because an unrepentant person will simply re injure you, and my mom would do that.

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Speaker 4: Over and over and over.

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Speaker 5: And so when I received that revelation from God, I experienced so much freedom to the place where it's like, oh, I can forgive you, and I can even love you from a distance. I can make sure that you have everything you need physically. I can make sure that if you go on the hospital that you're getting the best care possible. But what I can't do is I can't give you access to me. Wow, because you have proven that you can't handle that and you can't handle my heart.

00:14:17
Speaker 1: That is powerful.

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Speaker 4: So have I forgiven? Absolutely?

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Speaker 5: And really I've forgiven because forgiveness is the gift we give ourselves by releasing our future.

00:14:27
Speaker 4: From the pain of our past. Yes, and until you forgive.

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Speaker 5: You're gonna just carry the past pain into the future.

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Speaker 1: So I've forgiven her.

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Speaker 4: I realized what she did.

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Speaker 5: She did out of her hurt, her own ignorance, her own guilt. Yeah, the way she shows up today is truly because of guilt. But I also know that I'm responsible for me and she's responsible for her. Yeah, And so forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean access.

00:14:51
Speaker 1: Ooh that's a word. And grow all about them. Forgiveness does not necessarily mean access. Wow.

00:14:58
Speaker 5: The absence of repentance does not mean access.

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Speaker 3: Goodness, Wow, that is so good.

00:15:04
Speaker 1: It's she's still with Yeah, you are lying to me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, well we're you about to say what she's oh?

00:15:10
Speaker 4: Oh well, okay, a whole other story.

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Speaker 5: So, first of all, she was with him until not too long ago. I mean she was with him probably until maybe the last maybe the last ten years. Cause I remember she brought him to my college graduation, So that gives you a sense for how money they were together.

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Speaker 4: He actually left her.

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Speaker 5: Wow, And and so the thing about this situation, it was so toxic. He didn't even have a job, like she was basically taking care of him.

00:15:39
Speaker 1: Mm.

00:15:40
Speaker 5: And so it was so so toxic. But people will say, you just need to forget, you need to know he left her. If it was up to her, he would still be registered sex offender and all.

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Speaker 1: Jeez, yeah, that is crazy. I would have been like, Mama, he cannot come.

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Speaker 5: Like, oh I would I would say things like that, she brought him to my trial sermon when I was seventeen, preaching my very first sermon, you know, about to be licensed into ministry.

00:16:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, she brought him there.

00:16:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, you feel like in that moment, like, I don't think I.

00:16:12
Speaker 5: Was kind of desensitized by then, because.

00:16:15
Speaker 1: You know that's real.

00:16:17
Speaker 5: When my mom brought him back, I think something within me new.

00:16:22
Speaker 1: Yah.

00:16:22
Speaker 5: The only solution is to leave. Like at this point, I just had to focus on my grades. I have to focus on getting out of here, and.

00:16:30
Speaker 1: So I did.

00:16:31
Speaker 5: I got a full scholarship to college. But yeah, she would bring him around constantly.

00:16:36
Speaker 3: Did you ever deal with shame growing up? Because I can imagine like navigating that I would. I can imagine absolutely, because I can't honestly, like, yeah, that's a lot shame.

00:16:48
Speaker 5: Shame. We use the words guilt and shame interchangeably. But guilt is the idea that I made a mistake. Shame is the idea that I am a mistake. It's about identity, and so I wrestled with that constantly. Obviously something must be wrong with me for her to allow him back. Something must be wrong with me. My mom would go days and weeks without speaking to me as a child, Like even now I don't hear from her, and it's not because I told her not to call me.

00:17:21
Speaker 4: But if I don't reach out to her, I.

00:17:22
Speaker 5: Don't hear from her. And there were so many years I was like, what is wrong with me? What did I do that was so bad?

00:17:30
Speaker 1: Here?

00:17:30
Speaker 5: I am like straight a's student, Dean's list, all these leadership being selected for these leadership programs and boards.

00:17:37
Speaker 4: I was selected as the commencement speaker for high school.

00:17:39
Speaker 5: I did all these things thinking that she'll choose me if I am the best.

00:17:47
Speaker 4: I know that now it's.

00:17:48
Speaker 5: Like, man, she'll choose me if I'm the best. And nothing was ever enough, And so I had to come to the place where I was just like, this is what it is, not the anomaly, this is the experience.

00:18:02
Speaker 4: And I had to figure out how I was going.

00:18:04
Speaker 5: To move because of that.

00:18:06
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, was there ever a moment?

00:18:08
Speaker 3: Because I know a lot of young women who go through the same thing that you went through also end up chasing after man seeking some type of like the approval and the want from someone else.

00:18:20
Speaker 1: Did you go through a face like that?

00:18:21
Speaker 4: Oh yeah?

00:18:22
Speaker 5: And to see the scary part of all this is I didn't know, like I didn't know that the wounds that she created would actually show up in how I related to other people. And you kind of referenced that earlier. Yeah, like I need I needed attention, because that's a basic human need. It is basic human need is attention, affection, love, and I was denied all of that. And so yeah, like I remember in college because again, hyper hyper ambitious. So I was like president of my sorority and I was like Dean's list, this, that and the other. So my success in college made me visible to guys who were like, oh, you know, yeah, she's the one.

00:19:10
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I was.

00:19:11
Speaker 5: Like, oh my god, he's paying attention to me. And I even tell people, I'm like, look a lot of times were shocked when beautiful women end up in crazy relationships. Oh yeah, but it's because that physical beauty is not a proxy for emotional holness. You can be physically gorgeous and emotionally damaged. So yeah, I was it all types of relationship with God's got cheated on the guy thought I was gonna marry before my husband cheated on me.

00:19:38
Speaker 4: You gotta grow.

00:19:38
Speaker 5: Pregnant, like just all the things because of what I assumed was my lack of worth. So I almost like I would make myself accessible simply because they acknowledged me. You know, like I didn't have the standard that Wait a minute, No, I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. I'm a real priesthood, peculiar people, none of that.

00:20:00
Speaker 4: I'm just like, oh, you want to spend time with you?

00:20:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Wow, that's crazy. We talk about It's something that I'm in therapy as well, and my therapist just she broke something down to me called the mother wound, and I had never heard of that terminology.

00:20:20
Speaker 1: I was like, what is that?

00:20:21
Speaker 3: And she's like, when you think about it, said, the mother is normally the primary caregiver, even if you do have a mother and father in the home, and whatever that mom is going through during those early childhood development ages, those are the react the way the way the child reacts to love or get out of my face or I don't have time. They pick up on those patterns at a very young age, and that's how they carry on to all their relationships until they realize, wait a minute, this isn't right.

00:20:50
Speaker 1: And I was thirty, when did you introduce me to Delana? Two years last year?

00:20:56
Speaker 3: So yeah, I literally just when I was forty started seeking therapy and starting to unpen.

00:21:03
Speaker 1: Like literally, I'm like, wait a minute.

00:21:04
Speaker 3: Do you need to tell me I don't got a man, because it is, oh my, like mind blowing the things that I've been developing since a kid. Not to blame moms, but that it's a scientific fact that like that is a person that really develops that relational emotion that you have with people, and you carry that through your whole life until either you had a good foundation, yes, or.

00:21:29
Speaker 1: A bad one. Then you're like, wait a minute, I gotta rethink some things, you know what.

00:21:32
Speaker 5: It's like you said something at the very beginning of your comment that I think is important, which is you had never heard of mother womb. Never because we assume that's impossible, right like, because our our mother, like that's our source of light, right Like, we would not be here had it not been for our mother. And so the idea that that primary caregiver would wound us, it's like almost inconceivable. But because it's inconceivable, I believe it is so damaging, like father wands, Yes, they're damaging. Absolutely, this idea that our father's like, oh you're not my child, Yeah, that's damaging. But when your mother's she didn't want to have chooses somebody else over you, when you're when you're not good enough for your mother, like there is something that happens there that is damaging.

00:22:23
Speaker 4: I did a therapy session in December where I went.

00:22:26
Speaker 5: Up to Ohio. It was like this three day sole care intensive really.

00:22:29
Speaker 3: Powerful, and that sounds so good.

00:22:33
Speaker 5: The psychologist didn't exercise where he took me back in my mind's eye to an experience that happened to me.

00:22:42
Speaker 4: When my mom. I was nine years old.

00:22:45
Speaker 5: My mom and her boyfriend were arguing about something in the living room. I didn't know what it was because I was in my room reading. She called me out to the living room and asked me a question. I didn't have contact for the question, so I just answered it. Apparently, I guess I answered it when her boyfriend did, I don't know. She lunged at me started strangling me. I started to lose consciousness. I don't even remember how it stopped, but I remember getting up, running into my room, going into the closet. I locked my bedroom door, I closed the closet door. I remember sitting on a pile of dirty clothes next to the hamper, crying myself to sleep. Psychologist, I had not thought about that experience in decades. He didn't exercise. Took me back to that moment, and what I realized is that was the moment. That was literally the moment when I became an entirely different person, because that nine year old self, it's almost like I locked her away because I was like, I can't be you, I can't be vulnerable, I can't trust anybody. And so there was a part of me, like that part of me that was able to just trust and be vulnerable, that was in that closet still, and he had to take me back to that, and he helped me realize that wound was still there still. Everybody's like, oh, you're so strong, you know, you're just unflappable. You can be in conflict, high conflict situations and you're the coolest person in the room. Well, it's because that nine year old self was locked away. That part of me that was vulnerable and free was locked away, and I didn't know it. In the hands of my mom.

00:24:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, the person.

00:24:17
Speaker 4: Who gave me life, not to take my life.

00:24:20
Speaker 5: Yes, there's no way to experience that and and be the same. No, it's not after that, But I never I never connected the dots m and anything changed I just thought life went on. Oh no, life doesn't go on after things like that.

00:24:33
Speaker 1: Mm mm, it doesn't need change.

00:24:35
Speaker 3: You do. And it's crazy you said that he took you back. That's the same thing my therapist did when we started just trying to break down, like why I am the way I am and figuring out where these behaviors come from. And as I started to unpack it, like it goes all the way back to childhood, and I was like, oh my goodness, and the things that we remember that we've suppressed, they come back so vividly, like you remember every instance. And it's like sometimes the people who did it don't remember.

00:25:02
Speaker 1: They're like they're like oblivious.

00:25:03
Speaker 4: To me, and they blame you for it, like why are you bringing that up?

00:25:06
Speaker 5: I didn't do that?

00:25:07
Speaker 1: Literally what you talk about? What would you say it?

00:25:10
Speaker 3: Like, Okay, I'm crazy and you're like, why would I make this up?

00:25:14
Speaker 1: Right? Yes, that's so true.

00:25:18
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. So through all of that, Nonna, what led you to ministry? Because you are the founder of Nona Jones Ministry, you and your husband lead the Open Door Church. What led you to, like I know at the age of eleven, is when you got into church and you started studying for yourself. But what made you say, I want to dive deeper and spread this to the world.

00:25:38
Speaker 5: Well, what was funny is it was never my plan wow, to like be a preacher, travel.

00:25:46
Speaker 1: Any of that.

00:25:48
Speaker 5: What essentially happened was so at the age of seventeen, I was licensed into ministry. That was the service that my mom came and brought a boyfriend to. I knew that I had a call to teach, Like I knew I had a call to.

00:25:58
Speaker 4: Teach the Bible.

00:25:59
Speaker 5: I loved that, and so at the age of seventeen, I got licensed in the ministry. Now I thought I would just maybe teach like youth Bible studies, or maybe like once a year maybe preach for the church or whatever. But fast forward to I think this was maybe twenty eighteen. So I'm working for the company formally known as Facebook, and as the head of faith Partnerships. I would get invited to speak at like church conferences, like church technology conferences, and I would go and I would speak about how to use technology for ministry. But the thing about me is I only know one way to talk in those settings because I am a preacher, and so I would literally be like and the technology, the algorithm sat like some people would be in there, like.

00:26:54
Speaker 1: Right, technology, Yes, so.

00:27:07
Speaker 5: I would have so pastor would be in the audience. Like different churches, and so people like, We'll start just inviting me to speak at like conferences or even speaking at their weekend service or something like you need to come to church, like okay, And so I just kind of did it, and then I just started to get more and more invitations to do that. But again it was never my thought. As a matter of fact, at my own church. I really wasn't even speaking at my own church because at that point I was on a corporate track. I was senior executive and different companies and things, and so I wasn't around here like you know, I'm gonna preach and i'ma God just started to open the doors. And even now I look if I'm amazed, I'm like, Lord, what is this? But one thing God told me, and this was at the end of twenty twenty three, so I'm still on the team at you version, but God actually had me step down from my role because he said, I have called you to be a light in dark places. He said, the Bible app is a light and lip places. I have called you to be a light in dark places. And it's suddenly all means sense where it was like, oh wait, So all this time I've been in leadership in these companies where I've been bringing the witness of Jesus into boardrooms, I've been bringing the witness of Jesus into spaces where he not he would not normally be, And it's like, oh, now it makes sense.

00:28:34
Speaker 4: It's like, so I.

00:28:36
Speaker 5: Am literally bringing the witness of Jesus in places where people don't expect him to be. That's the calling all my life, and so I love that I get to preach and teach and do all these things, and at the same time, I'm also bringing the witness of Jesus into the workplace, into business conferences, into leadership spaces.

00:28:53
Speaker 4: I'm speaking at a conference tomorrow.

00:28:55
Speaker 5: In Texas, which is like a group of like business women, executive women, entrepreneurs, where I'm going to be talking about the light and the hope of Jesus. You know, I'm going to be talking about business strategy and all that.

00:29:07
Speaker 1: But I love how you can I love this ex Yeah.

00:29:13
Speaker 4: So that's how it happened.

00:29:15
Speaker 5: The algorithm algorithm yes, you need to post this time.

00:29:24
Speaker 1: Next time.

00:29:27
Speaker 4: If we turn to Instagram, yes, girl, yes we need.

00:29:36
Speaker 1: That is too funny. Oh my goodness. Well one of your mini titles.

00:29:42
Speaker 3: You're an author and you have written three other books, killing comparison, success from the inside Out and from social Media to ministry the globally acclaimed God to digital discipleship for churches. At the top of the year, everyone is trying to clear their slate, and they have all these different goals that they want to do.

00:30:01
Speaker 1: These three books.

00:30:01
Speaker 3: I would recommend everybody's really for sure, But can you tell why each of the books will be helpful for their twenty twenty four sure?

00:30:10
Speaker 4: So successful me inside Out?

00:30:12
Speaker 5: I wrote that that's my memoirk So, I'm just sharing my story who I am, how I became.

00:30:18
Speaker 4: Who I am? So I talk about the trauma.

00:30:20
Speaker 5: I talk about the role that forgiveness has played because the really what kind of catalyzed that book is I At the time, I was working in politics, really and yep, I was leading.

00:30:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of commons. I worked on the hill. That was my first job for the Senate. Yeah we got we got a whole, Yeah we got a girl. Yeah.

00:30:40
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:30:41
Speaker 1: As you're talking like.

00:30:45
Speaker 5: I was at I was at This was under the Obama administration. I was at a White House function and there's all these like influential people there, and I remember I was I was in the room and the President first lady were over there, and I was looking at all these people, and I had this thought. I was like, I should feel like I've arrived, but I should feel like like full. I feel empty. And I was like, if this is all there is, Lord, is this all there is? A success is just being in a room where everyone knows of you, but nobody knows you. And so I went back to my hotel room that night I prayed. And that's where success from the inside out came from, because I opened up the Bible and I went to Joshua chapter one, and the Book of Deuteronomy ends where Moses dies.

00:31:42
Speaker 1: I literally just finished rhym this morning promise.

00:31:45
Speaker 5: You come on spirits, come on now, dwell. It's one of my favorite book Joshua one. What happens is, so Moses dies, Joshua becomes the leader of the children. Real God basically pulls Joshua to the side to give him some instruction for how to lead them in a way that would be successful.

00:32:08
Speaker 4: And then Joshua one to eight.

00:32:10
Speaker 5: God tells Joshua, he says, meditate in the law day and night. Observe to do all that is written in it. Then you will make your way prosperous and you will have good success. When I read that, the idea of good success was so paradoxical to me because we think success is good by definition, yes, right, yes, But what God helped me to realize is there is a success that isn't good because you can talk about it, check all the boxes and be overwhelmed, be depressed, isolated, right, No, seriously, but like everybody's looking at you.

00:32:49
Speaker 4: And they're like, that's what I want.

00:32:51
Speaker 1: You don't want this what you tell me days you see the anxious.

00:32:58
Speaker 3: I'm like, I am so like I had to literally tell even this morning, breathe, thank you Guy for this breath, thank you God for this day, not asking for anything, thank you, thank you, thank you, and then like just get dived in the word. And when I say so much peace came over me. I was like, okay, yes, and literally God was telling Joshua, yeah at the end of dude around me going into it.

00:33:20
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, my goodness. Okay, this is what I have to do.

00:33:23
Speaker 5: There is a success that isn't good. But when God said meditating the law, do what it says, he said, you will make your way prosperous and you will have good success. So the idea that if you do what the word of God says, that you won't even have to be like Lord, I hope that you'll favor this, you'll make.

00:33:41
Speaker 4: Your way prosperous because that becomes the guardrail.

00:33:43
Speaker 5: And so I rode success from the inside out because I was like Lord, I want good success. Yeah, and I realized success begins within, like there is nothing you can accumulate around you. Yeah, that will fill a deficit within you. Yeah, and so you can have all the stuff mm hm, cards glo.

00:34:00
Speaker 3: It doesn't feel anything as soon as you buy it two days listen.

00:34:15
Speaker 1: It's true though, And.

00:34:16
Speaker 5: And you know, having worked for the world's largest social media company, I do have to say this. We end up comparing our reality to other people's fiction, like.

00:34:28
Speaker 1: Say that again. I just called it, and then it hit me. We compare to.

00:34:34
Speaker 5: Other people's fiction, like people make these posts that they're just so happy and everything's so great and so then we look at that and we're like, that's what I want. What you don't realize is they are depressed. They are stressed out.

00:34:46
Speaker 1: Girl.

00:34:46
Speaker 5: I remember one time there was a girl, this was years ago. I used to follow her account. I admired her because she was always like fashion, she was doing the thing, and so somehow I got in touch with her one day because she was always wearing like the high fashion expensive.

00:35:00
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:35:00
Speaker 5: I got in touch with her because I was doing a conference. I wanted her to speak at it. This girl was like, oh, you know, I'd love to do it. But I actually got a victied from my apartment and I'm staying with a friend. That morning, she had posted a picture of herself showing the red bottom hills, the Chanel badness, that and the other, and I it's like, it's like.

00:35:19
Speaker 4: The veil fell from my eyes.

00:35:20
Speaker 5: I said, oh wait, people can post what isn't even.

00:35:25
Speaker 1: Real, honey. People will post in fake houses.

00:35:28
Speaker 3: We learn a lot, not abb Airbnb with a mattress on the floor.

00:35:33
Speaker 1: I'm like, but you was just in Milan. The math is not mathing and.

00:35:40
Speaker 3: You literally are looking like, oh my god, I want her life. She is living a life, not knowing she's sleeping on the floor.

00:35:45
Speaker 5: I want a situation where cause you know how people slide into u DM a situation the way now, God one of the people sliding from a DMS, and I am one of those people. I might look I'm married, Like I don't get that right. But he started to talk about his wife, how he was leaving his wife, and it like pequed my interest because I was like really, I was like, well why.

00:36:13
Speaker 4: I was like why.

00:36:14
Speaker 5: He was like, wait, no, she's just I'm just not happy and things just started working out or whatever. And I was like interesting. I was like, well, have you talked to her about the problems? And he said he had and they but they weren't going to therapy because whatever. At the same time that he's saying this, he's posting woman crushed Wednesday of her Yes, And so I'm sitting here and I'm just like, the reason why I bring that up is because again, we feel this pressure to live up to a line we do.

00:36:45
Speaker 4: It's like no, no, so success begins with it.

00:36:47
Speaker 1: And that's why I remember this so good.

00:36:51
Speaker 5: No killing comparison came out of a similar situation where one day this was back in twenty twenty, I had a full calendar of speaking engagements, you know, two books coming out, and everything got canceled, of course because of the pandemic, right, And I went on to Instagram one day and this was when everything was canceled. All my events were canceled. Went on to Instagram and a friend of mine made a post that she was speaking at this huge virtual women's conference. There's will be tens of thousands of women. And I saw the posts and I was like, Oh, that sounds really cool. Why scroll down a little bit more. There was another friend who said that she would be also speaking at this huge virtual one's conference, and I was like okay, scrolling down a little more, there was another friend speaking at it. Oh wow, and another friend.

00:37:36
Speaker 1: And I was like, everybody speaking of this, but be why am I not there? Did you hear me?

00:37:41
Speaker 5: So I started clicking on their profile because I was like, well, how many followers they have a comparison to me?

00:37:45
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:37:46
Speaker 5: Like I started to click on their websites. Where else are they speaking at in comparison to me? I want to know why I wasn't invited.

00:37:51
Speaker 3: I was like, at my business and get off my street and get off my couch actually, cause I don't like you attacking me like this, cause I'm guilty.

00:38:00
Speaker 1: I am guilty. God, I don't like my business. Though.

00:38:05
Speaker 4: I was like, I want to know.

00:38:06
Speaker 5: I was like, why was she invited? Why was I not invited? Why was I overlooked?

00:38:09
Speaker 1: As I was.

00:38:10
Speaker 5: Asking all these why questions, I heard the Holy Spirit say, Nonah, why does it matter?

00:38:15
Speaker 1: Why does it matter? I'm guilty. I'm just being honest. I've done that. How she get that way?

00:38:27
Speaker 5: What house?

00:38:31
Speaker 4: It was like, Lord, but I it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.

00:38:36
Speaker 1: And then he says, look look around, why does it matter?

00:38:41
Speaker 5: Right, you're right, But but that idea of toxic comparison where I see somebody else's win as my loss, I see somebody else's success is my failure.

00:38:52
Speaker 4: God helped me to see.

00:38:53
Speaker 5: In that season that I was insecure and if you would have told me back then in twenty twenty that. I was like, no, ma'am, I said, do you see what I've done, what I've accomplished? Do you see what I have? And God was like, you can be the most handsome, the most beautiful, the most popular, the most wealthy.

00:39:10
Speaker 4: You can be the most powerful person.

00:39:11
Speaker 5: On earth and still be insecure. Yeah, because security is not a function of your self esteem. It's a question of what your identity is secured to, that.

00:39:23
Speaker 1: Is it.

00:39:24
Speaker 5: And if it's secure to anything that is subject to other people's approval, opinions, evaluation, or assessment, you'll be insecure because people's opinions change.

00:39:33
Speaker 1: Like the current of the sea.

00:39:35
Speaker 3: You are so my lord, you are on my street, as PD says, you have.

00:39:41
Speaker 1: My business you came from.

00:39:43
Speaker 3: But that's so good, and that's so true because so often it doesn't matter who you are, it's just human nature too. At some point kind of be like, well, how is that happening for them and not for me?

00:39:54
Speaker 1: You know?

00:39:55
Speaker 3: And I have to check myself and I and I always remind myself God has blessed me beyond measure and everything I've asked for.

00:40:02
Speaker 1: He's like literally blow my mind.

00:40:03
Speaker 3: And when I've allowed him to leave me and just take the l the lead, it's more than I could.

00:40:08
Speaker 1: Have ever imagined, you know.

00:40:10
Speaker 3: And I always try to be cognizant in a way to make sure that that comparison doesn't turn into jealousy and envy, because that's when it gets dangerous. Yeah, Yeah, that's when it gets dangerous.

00:40:21
Speaker 5: Well, and it if it's it's one of those things where we have to guard against it. Like there's never gonna be a point where you're just gonna be like I'm getting so happy for everybody that has more than me.

00:40:32
Speaker 4: It's so great, Like you're never gonna be there.

00:40:36
Speaker 5: But what I had to learn to do, and I kind of outlined the process in Killing Comparison, is I've had to learn to celebrate other success. Yes, like actually celebrated. The through line in that book is you know, we all know about Saul and David, Yes, right, how Saul was jealous of David and all that, But there's actually a third person in that story that never gets talked about MM.

00:41:00
Speaker 4: And that Saw's son Jonathan. Oh wow, sol King of Israel.

00:41:05
Speaker 5: David, this young shepherd boy Jonathan is next in line to be king. What we know is that Saul's jealousy of David was triggered because when they both returned to town from a battle, the people were like, Saul has slain his thousands and David his tens of thousands, and so it says from that moment on Saw eyed David. He became jealous. Jonathan overhears the exact same song, like he's in the exact same vicinity instead of as the next in line to be king, him becoming jealous of David. He walks over to David, gives him his weapons and his robe. This is the guy who's next in line to be King Herry. The people celebrate this guy. He becomes David's best friend, his champion, his defender. Yeah, but what I realized is that although not a lot of said about Jonathan, Jonathan knew God for real. Like if you read First Samuel fourteen and six, I think it is he goes and fights a contingent of Philistines by himself, and he says this. He says, nothing can hinder the Lord from saving, whether by many or by few. So he wasn't intimidated by people celebration of David, and he celebrated them too. He's like, go forth, because if God is for you, who can be against you? And we have to have that mentality.

00:42:16
Speaker 1: Yes, it is so true.

00:42:18
Speaker 3: One thing that I tell all my friends, like when you see something happening for someone else's platform, especially like if like say we're friends, we're friends now and I see something amazing happening for you. I'm in your neighborhood. You know it sounds like the past. Ever we both got the he ain't gonna pass me by.

00:42:35
Speaker 1: No, you know what I'm saying. You right there, I know if you got it, it's coming next to me.

00:42:39
Speaker 3: Whatever it is, I'm asking God for it may not look the same, but a lot of times in friendships we can be like, h right, you think she thinks all that?

00:42:48
Speaker 5: You think she all that.

00:42:49
Speaker 1: That's that's the thing.

00:42:52
Speaker 5: So I look at it like when I see someone succeeding. Yes, I see that as a receipt for what's possible for me.

00:43:00
Speaker 3: Amen, that's It's a word she got Okay, so it's possible.

00:43:07
Speaker 1: For her.

00:43:08
Speaker 5: And who I don't lose anything. True story. Two weeks before Killing Comparison was supposed to come out. This was in twenty twenty two, a friend of mine was releasing a book. She was on all the major news outlets, Today's show, Good Morning America, in SNBC, all these things. People were talking about her book all over social media, and the enemy started to say, see anybody gonna buy your book, nobody's gonna have you on their programs. Look at she getting on the shond. Don't nobody care about you?

00:43:34
Speaker 1: This, that, and the other.

00:43:35
Speaker 4: I went over to my computer. I went to Amazon. I bought her book. Yes, I went over.

00:43:39
Speaker 5: To my bed.

00:43:40
Speaker 4: I pulled a pillow off the bed.

00:43:41
Speaker 5: I melt on it. I prayed in arnest for her. I said, God, bless her. I want you to exceed her expectations below her mind. Take this message to the far corners of the earth. I got up off the pillow. I texted her, my sister, I am so excited for what God is doing. I am praying for you. I am rooting for you. When I hit send on that message, I said, take that devil, because.

00:44:00
Speaker 4: You are not over here.

00:44:02
Speaker 5: Thinking that somehow her Win is my loss, Like there's only so much attention that can be given to something. I was like, if God is for me, I know that I will be fine. Two days later, my publisher reaches out.

00:44:14
Speaker 4: And was like, oh, yeah, good morning America.

00:44:15
Speaker 5: It's an interview Jesus.

00:44:17
Speaker 4: And what God told me in.

00:44:19
Speaker 5: That moment is he said, this is not about you. This is about you understanding that if I can trust you, there is no limit to where I will take you.

00:44:29
Speaker 1: You heard at the door that that that.

00:44:32
Speaker 5: If I can trust you, I can trust you, there's no limits where I will take you.

00:44:37
Speaker 3: Oh you are blessing my soul this morn. My goodness, Oh, my goodness. We talk about social media and how we're always comparing ourselves, but we also share a lot on social media. You share your family, your fitness, your health, regimen, skincare, all the things. Something that I struggle with is, you know, opening up more on social media. I'm super private. I try to give them just enough, just a taste to make that to make them feel.

00:45:06
Speaker 1: Like they're a part of my world. Just a teasphone. That's why we had a teasphone, not a full table, just a little bit.

00:45:16
Speaker 3: But what would be some of your advice just to kind of help manage that and balance that, because it can be such a cold world with the comments and people having an opinion about everything, and you're just trying to share your light and just inspire people through your life.

00:45:28
Speaker 1: And that's all I'm trying to do.

00:45:29
Speaker 3: Even from I post my workouts and I post what I'm eating, just so I can see, oh she's eating healthy.

00:45:34
Speaker 1: Let me let me put this cheese wrger down and go get us something you know, but how do you manage that?

00:45:40
Speaker 3: And what kind of advice would you give for me and other young women who are on social media and want to share more but are a little reluctant.

00:45:47
Speaker 5: Well, I think I think you're being wise. First of all, you're being very wise because you're being intentional about what you're sharing, like you're trying to inspire people, which I think is beautiful. Yes, people are people on social media, all right?

00:45:59
Speaker 1: Do you?

00:46:00
Speaker 5: Of course? Girl, let me not post a clip of me preaching, because here come the first Timothy's.

00:46:06
Speaker 4: I suffer not.

00:46:09
Speaker 5: Woman to preach like, y'all, this is my like, my platform.

00:46:14
Speaker 1: Why are you here?

00:46:16
Speaker 5: You know what I do? But anyway, Yeah, people are people everywhere, and so you're gonna have some people who are like, oh she thinks she is that.

00:46:23
Speaker 4: It's like whatever. I think just having having a heart to inspire is great.

00:46:28
Speaker 5: One of the things that God has convicted me about is what I'm posting. Where is the glory going? So okay, when I post this, is the glory.

00:46:41
Speaker 4: Coming to me? Or is it going to God?

00:46:44
Speaker 5: Perfect example, I forget which book it was, I might've been killing comparison, my publisher told me that it got put in target, which is apparent really hard for like spiritual.

00:46:54
Speaker 1: Books, whatever.

00:46:55
Speaker 5: And so I made a post about it, and like ten minutes after I've made that post, God said take it down. And I was like why And God said, because your heart was to draw attention to yourself, like look at me as opposed to what I had done.

00:47:17
Speaker 1: Wow.

00:47:19
Speaker 5: And so I would give that as just a principle the heart, like the heart.

00:47:23
Speaker 4: Posture matters.

00:47:24
Speaker 5: And so the question is, what's the goal is to inspire other people? And here's a reality. Some people are going to have a problem about what you do, right because that's their heart. Like social media, I think social media exposes insecurity, but it's not the source of it. Because two people can look at your posts working out. One person could be like I'm going to the gym, another person like, oh she thinks she's fine.

00:47:46
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, I mean work like it's always something.

00:47:52
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say to have that heart, the heart to inspire, the heart, to encourage, and just guard it because that platform is a ministry. Yes, there are people who are watching, there are people who will read into things, and so yeah, I would say, don't don't share it all, don't share it all.

00:48:10
Speaker 4: But you're doing fine, Okay.

00:48:13
Speaker 3: I think now that I have you here, something that I struggle with just as an actor. And I've talked to PD and passive Shmik about this, just being an actor and the characters that I portray and who I am in real life, and then wondering if I do struggle with wondering if acting and the characters that I play are pleasing in God's eyes or if he's judging me for the character that I'm playing and who I am, or if it's the same thing. And You're like, you shouldn't even be doing that because you're my child. And then a part of me is like, but that's like I'm portraying something that really happens, you.

00:48:47
Speaker 1: Know what I'm saying. And I don't know if I'm making.

00:48:50
Speaker 3: Any excuse, but I'm like, really, I struggle with that, and you know, my family is super supportive, but also struggling, like God is just pleasing in your eyes and when the right thing, and so I just want to get some insight on it.

00:49:05
Speaker 1: How do you feel?

00:49:06
Speaker 5: So this may be controversial, but the way that I've learned to live my life is that when I have the question.

00:49:16
Speaker 4: That is the answer.

00:49:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, so.

00:49:23
Speaker 5: The question, it's because there is something on the inside of me. That's like, that's where the question comes from. Because if there's alignment, don't even have a question. It's like we're good. So it's something to just lean into. It's like, okay, okay, I have this question. There's something there is there a change I need to make. Is there something that I need to tweak, like so that I can be in alignment?

00:49:49
Speaker 4: Because once the question is answered.

00:49:51
Speaker 5: You will have perfect pieces.

00:49:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is so good, I know the Lord, Like it's like I feel like it's like like you bless me with my dream and what I wanted to do. But now it's like as I'm on this walk and trying to I really I'm trying to bring people people closer to God. You know, in the dark place, you know, social media is a dark place. Acting is in Hollywood is a dark place, you know.

00:50:18
Speaker 5: But that's where I think also discermin is. It's like, Lord, that's where I said, what's a tweak? I can think because you darkness, we are called to be light in dark places, Like I think many times we get so comfortable in light.

00:50:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, but light don't need light, don't darkness.

00:50:37
Speaker 5: So it's like, all right, Lord, how do I how do I carry light into this dark place so that it's not extinguished? What do I need to do again? Is there a tweak I need to make? Is there a change I need to make? How do I make sure that I am set apart so that people are drawn to me? So I'm not common, I'm not familiar, I'm not just another one of those. It's like, oh no, we need to go talk to Crystal because like you can tell the difference. Yeah, I'm figuring out what that is, and the discernment of God will will make it clear.

00:51:05
Speaker 1: Thank you.

00:51:06
Speaker 6: I Because the other thing is that there would the platform that you received as an actor afforded you this ministry.

00:51:19
Speaker 3: Yes, Wow, you're right because I'm bringing everybody.

00:51:22
Speaker 1: Yes, And that's kind of what we were talking about. Who was on the couch pretty big when she was here.

00:51:28
Speaker 3: I said, I see that God is bringing like a lot of people that he has like risen to a high platform back to Jesus. Like it's almost like he's like, I'm gonna use you for this. You're gonna this is what we're gonna use to get to bring people to me and like they're denouncing what they were, Like, who's the big singer Latin singer, rapper that just gave his life to Christ and he's not singing anymore.

00:51:52
Speaker 1: Daddy Yankee, daddy Yankee. Like I see things.

00:51:55
Speaker 2: Like that, saw her witchcraft and that stuff, and she's she's team Jesus now amazing.

00:52:03
Speaker 4: But it happens because of intention.

00:52:05
Speaker 5: Like I think that's why this conversation is good, because it's like, all right, Lord, you've given me this platform to be a witness for you.

00:52:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, why you do it? That's our words.

00:52:15
Speaker 5: Because what happened is I've seen this happen too. This maybe controversial as well. We pray for things, we're like I just want to I want to give God the glory. Then we get the platform and we become darkness.

00:52:27
Speaker 1: Yes, oh no, no, that happens.

00:52:30
Speaker 7: Also start worshiping the platform more than they do.

00:52:33
Speaker 1: The provider on the plat platform.

00:52:36
Speaker 5: That's like, how do I keep the platform? It's like, well, if it's his, it's for you to keep.

00:52:42
Speaker 3: I was literally making my bed this morning and I don't that's because I had just finished reading, so like the Holy Spirit was talking to me and guy said, you continue to talk to me and talk about me and spread my word, and I would draw all men noneto and I.

00:52:55
Speaker 1: Would put my pillow. I said. I was like, if anybody dies telling her to be like, is she okay? Like y'all literally like yelled. I was like, ooh, okay.

00:53:05
Speaker 3: I felt that because sometimes you feel like okay, I gotta keep this like cool. I gotta make it cool so people will still want to, you know, tune in. How can I still be me and praise Jesus at the same time. And it's like, you know, I'm I'm just being honest and transparent. Like I struggle with that because there are things I'm working on my mouth, I curse, you know. I was doing a live with my friend the other day, and you know how like when you're with your friends, like you might get another piece of side that you might get on here. And she was like, should delict that? I said yeah, because I was saying bro niggas a lot. I was like, that is not of God, and I was like listen. I said, that's why I didn't collaborate with you, because I said that is not on brand and I need to work on it. And so let me work on how I talk to my friends too, you know, so that like it's not a switch, you know, just being turned a fan, But I do, I struggle with it, and and I do. I know my heart pasture is for God and I want to give him the glory and but being caught up in two worlds trying to find that balance. But that was good in Aura, that acting created this platform to give him the glory.

00:54:19
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that this is the case for you, right because only you and God know what your acting journey is meant to be. But I think that in general, sometimes we're so attached to what but you made me an actor.

00:54:35
Speaker 7: You think that that is the destination?

00:54:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, and for some that just might be a part.

00:54:41
Speaker 2: Of the journey, right, Like there might be just somebody that God says, I'm going to make you an actor so that you're on the number one cable television drama every week, so that millions of people come to you, and then when they come to you, all they see is a light of me.

00:54:54
Speaker 4: That that is so relevant because.

00:54:59
Speaker 5: I think, like I just said that God told me that I need to step away from the day to day at uversion because he called me to be a light in dark places. I got asked, So in a few weeks I'll be at the Black Enterprise Women of Power som Right, this is a business it's business women, women of Power, and they've asked me to preach a message, right.

00:55:18
Speaker 4: Why because I'm a business woman.

00:55:20
Speaker 5: Yes, Like they're not asking me because I'm a preacher. I'm a business woman who happens to be a preacher.

00:55:28
Speaker 1: Right.

00:55:28
Speaker 5: And so that platform created the opportunity to bring the witness of Jesus into that space. So I totally agree with you.

00:55:37
Speaker 4: I totally agree with you.

00:55:38
Speaker 5: There is something that God has done in that platform that he wants to use for his glory. Yes, and now it's just about discernment and be like, all right, Lord, how do I how do I do this? Yeah?

00:55:50
Speaker 3: We're in church Ard now, we're doing forty days a fast and we're in seek season. And it's funny because Pastor there has been clue were pre on Monday on Sunday and one of the part was one of the things he told us to do was to make sure that we let squads that are not for us die like the circle that you have around you. So he was like if somebody tried to come in and they not talking about what you're talking about telling Moses.

00:56:17
Speaker 1: Did like we're going where we going? You can't go, you know.

00:56:23
Speaker 3: So every time my friends would say somebody, she was like girl, because someone say, I said, girl, Moses is dead.

00:56:29
Speaker 1: I was like, they can't come where we're going. And it was crazy.

00:56:33
Speaker 3: We left church and my brother's in the car and he said, my keys. He said he had told one of his friends all the things that he was fasting from, and she was like, you're doing all that, Like that's a lot, Like you're giving up, you're doing too much.

00:56:47
Speaker 1: And I said, I said, what you're fasting for? Between you and God?

00:56:50
Speaker 3: And I was like I said and he was like, you know what, You're right because I started second guessing what God had told me to give up, and I said, you can't do that. Literally, as we're having the conversation of our directors from the studio caused me. And he's known for writing really dark films and he's like, Chris Cross, that's what he caused me. What you're doing And I was like, nothing much, I said. Just leaving church, I said, he said, what do you what are y'all doing. I said, we're actually starting a fast today. He said, ooh, I need to do it with y'all. He said, God has been tugging at me. And he was like, I'm telling you, he said, I've had the worst week. He said, I'm so glad I called you. So what y'all giving up? And I said, well, whatever God puts on your heart. And he was like, I'm gonna do it with y'all. Send me the devotional I'm gonna do it. And I said that's the type of people you need in your squad, like people that are like instant.

00:57:35
Speaker 4: Like, ooh, I want to do it with you, not yes, you.

00:57:37
Speaker 1: Doing too much?

00:57:38
Speaker 3: See, And it was like and he literally mark he said, oh my God, he said the way God just like literally like affirmed what we were talking about.

00:57:45
Speaker 1: In the middle of the conversation. We both looked up and said, oh, that's how.

00:57:49
Speaker 5: You do it.

00:57:55
Speaker 7: You are bringing God into it.

00:57:57
Speaker 1: That was an I missed it. I missed it.

00:57:59
Speaker 7: Wow.

00:58:00
Speaker 1: There was another moment where I brought.

00:58:01
Speaker 2: This a studio executive calling you and you're having a conversation about God and you're having a conversation about what God called you into and you are now having one individual fast because of a conversation that you had when he was calling you about something, because.

00:58:20
Speaker 5: He knows how God's going to work through that. Who knows what God's going to do. But because you stepped into that moment and you were not ashamed, because you could have easily been like.

00:58:30
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, we just a head and on.

00:58:34
Speaker 4: This is what we're doing.

00:58:35
Speaker 1: What we're doing.

00:58:36
Speaker 5: Yeah, man, yeah I've been having and I will say this, you know this.

00:58:39
Speaker 4: I'm not in Hollywood, but it's like, there's so much pain.

00:58:42
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of wealth, there's a lot of notoriety.

00:58:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much pain.

00:58:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, and people are trying.

00:58:50
Speaker 5: To fix that pain with things that will not fix it, whether it's drugs, excess whatever. You have the answer that, yeah, that's Jesus, Like you have the answer that everybody is looking for you.

00:59:07
Speaker 1: Yes.

00:59:07
Speaker 5: So God is literally sending you out as an emissary, as an ambassador, and the key is to represent him. Well, it's like what I want to represent you? Well, I don't want people to be like she's a christ Like.

00:59:21
Speaker 1: I don't know.

00:59:22
Speaker 5: I want people to like, oh yeah, no, that she's she's a Christian.

00:59:25
Speaker 4: She's a follower of Jesus.

00:59:26
Speaker 5: Yes, that's the goals, Like, God give me wisdom.

00:59:30
Speaker 1: In these spaces. That was thank you do y'all really just like gave me so much peace and I know what I need to do. Yeah, I got it, you knew.

00:59:42
Speaker 5: I already knew. Yeah, so tell me what you think about why because you know, because you know, because you already know.

00:59:51
Speaker 1: That is so funny.

00:59:53
Speaker 3: I was having a conversation with someone else and I want to pick your brain by this as well.

00:59:57
Speaker 1: This is just like turned into like a open table talk.

01:00:02
Speaker 3: So I was actually having this conversation with Deval about different religions and as a Christian not judging people for what they believe in. And I had made a comment I said I dated a Muslim when I was in college, and my parents were like, you should not be unequally yoked.

01:00:19
Speaker 1: They started quoting scripture and I was young.

01:00:21
Speaker 3: I was like, oh whatever, But that was the one man probably to this day that like loved me the most and that I just felt so loved by. Right And when people ask me like, who is the one that you feel like just loved you the most, and I was like, it was Godhood. He was Muslim, and we didn't like when the conversation came up about having kids, It's like, are we gonna raise our kids Christians or Muslim?

01:00:40
Speaker 1: This is where the unequally yoke comes in and.

01:00:42
Speaker 3: It's like like I didn't want to deal with it, so we ended up breaking up.

01:00:45
Speaker 1: But just an amazing human being.

01:00:48
Speaker 3: And when I started looking at different religions, I realized that most it's all I feel like it was put in place for some type of structure in different regions, but also the common goals to treat people right and most of them. And so I don't judge people for what they believe in. But I know what I believe in. I proclaim the name of Jesus Christ. I believe he died for our sins and roast and the dead. I believe all those things. But am I wrong for like as Christians? Like, cause some people are like very condemning, like you shouldn't like believe in. I just feel like what you believe in, what you believe in, that's not my business. How do you feel about that?

01:01:21
Speaker 5: Yeah? No, I believe that our job is to be a witness for Jesus. Yeah, And so what that means is if we get into conversations and mind you, when I was the head of faith Partnerships at META, I mean I'm working with like Buddhist, Hindus, Muslims, shoes, like Christians, and so my respect for every person is at a human level. And when we would have conversations about belief, like I'm I'm unashamed to say that I'm a believer. I'm a follower of Jesus. This is the gospel. This is why I believe it. It is not my responsibility to convience someone yes that my faith is the faith. It's simply my responsibility to be a reflection right of who Jesus is in the earth. I have had people of other faiths choose to follow Jesus after seeing a message that I preached or something like that. Not because I was like you're wrong and you're going to hell if you don't believe this. No, No, I'm just here to be a witness and the Holy Spirit does the work.

01:02:15
Speaker 3: Yes, Okay, that's the endcause I wanted to make sure I had the because when I said that, I was like, hope, I'm not offending anybody, Did I say that, right? Because you start thinking like we're talking about other religions, and I just don't judge anybody for what they believe. And I know what I believe, and I love that. You don't force anybody.

01:02:29
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to. You need to believe in God doesn't work.

01:02:33
Speaker 5: I have examples, like literal examples of people in other parts of the world, Muslim majority countries where we're like missionaries, can't even get into these spaces to proclaim the gospel of Jesus, where people are becoming Christians because they are being visited in their dreams. Wow, by Jesus.

01:02:49
Speaker 4: I have stories like that.

01:02:51
Speaker 5: There's a story of a woman I forget which part of she might have been in India, living in a country where literally you will be murdered. We think we get persecution because people disagree with us here.

01:03:03
Speaker 4: No, no, no, you become a Christian, you die.

01:03:06
Speaker 5: So this woman, she was visiting her dreams by Jesus, accepts Jesus as the lord of her life. She has to go to Egypt, where her sister is another Muslim majority country. Yes, she has to go out of her country to another country to find a church, just to worship with people. She already was saved but she had never been in a community.

01:03:26
Speaker 1: Of Christians, and that's important, yes.

01:03:29
Speaker 5: And so that's why I'm like, I don't think it's my responsibility to badger people into the faith. I just need to be a witness and be unashamed of the Gospel.

01:03:36
Speaker 3: And I think that's a problem too sometimes with Christians and people who are struggling whether to believe or not, is that we don't live. We're not a good witness, and we're like, you know, people are like, I don't want to have nothing to do with y'all got going onocrites, Like they don't want to be a part of it, you know. But I feel like people like us are making people see that, no, this is a great community to be a part of.

01:04:02
Speaker 1: I want to be on team Jesus.

01:04:03
Speaker 5: And I will say this, I have found that the most judgmental people tend to be the people that have the most to hide, the people who are.

01:04:11
Speaker 8: Like they are on your on your topic of you know, the comment that you said then about you know, your ex being Muslim and that then, h what.

01:04:31
Speaker 7: Are your thoughts on if she would have married that.

01:04:37
Speaker 1: Muslim as a Christian woman, as a Christian woman, because do you see that.

01:04:41
Speaker 3: I know there are people Christians and Muslims that get married, but how is that word?

01:04:45
Speaker 7: I know. I went to my former church when I was in New York.

01:04:51
Speaker 2: One of the pastors married a Jewish woman and she ended up converting.

01:04:55
Speaker 7: And so when I hear things like that, I often think.

01:04:58
Speaker 2: About first Peter, yeah, one one through six, right, where it's like wives, by the way of your example, right, let your husbands be saved. Essentially, I'm paraphrasing right, and so, but is it even okay right to enter into a marriage as Christians with someone of a completely different belief.

01:05:20
Speaker 5: It's it's hard, and it's hard because you have to almost imagine putting yourself in his shoes. Let's just say that he's like, I love you. In the back of his mind, he's like, you're gonna be muscled, and that's what convert. It's okay, we love each other.

01:05:39
Speaker 4: It'll be fine.

01:05:41
Speaker 5: She'll convert.

01:05:42
Speaker 1: And so that's that's she's thinking the same thing. I can get him to convert.

01:05:47
Speaker 5: Now. The way that I approach marriage, and this is even outside of religion, it's just in general, is you have to be able to accept the person as they are when those bowels are exchanged without any expectation of oh, well they're gonna change this, They're gonna change that to change this, because what you do is you set yourself up for disappointment.

01:06:08
Speaker 3: Which is why the Bible probably says you shouldn't be unequally you because they already knows the problem it's going to create.

01:06:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, and them listen, I will.

01:06:15
Speaker 5: Tell you it is it is more likely that the person won't change than that they will. Yeah. What the probability is higher that they won't because you married them, right, So it's like, apparently I'm good enough for you to marry, so why would I need to change?

01:06:30
Speaker 4: So that that would be the challenge. It It is hard. It can happen.

01:06:34
Speaker 5: It can happen, but you have to basically take religion off the table. But you can't even just talk about it.

01:06:40
Speaker 1: And that's hard.

01:06:42
Speaker 4: That's a big conversation to not have it, is it?

01:06:45
Speaker 1: Really?

01:06:45
Speaker 5: You pray five times a day, right, you have your seasons of the year that you have certain things you have and your family is Muslim too.

01:06:51
Speaker 4: And now they're looking aside, I have me because I'm not doing the whole. Yeah, it's just it's hard.

01:06:56
Speaker 1: Yeah.

01:06:57
Speaker 7: My other one is.

01:07:01
Speaker 2: Speak, going back to the topic of judgment and things like that, how do we find the balance between not being judgmental and allowing others to, through our example, come to Jesus and see Jesus.

01:07:18
Speaker 7: Versus still having to speak truth, which.

01:07:21
Speaker 2: Is a big thing right now, right we were, you know, offline talking about a lot of what's happening even on the pulpit right now. And so, and I know I've heard other pastors literally preach on stage against what's happening on other pulpits, which I'm.

01:07:38
Speaker 7: Like, yes, that needs to happen, Like we.

01:07:41
Speaker 2: Continue to sweep things under the rug. And so what is the balance between the judgment and the speaking and truth speaking?

01:07:51
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying.

01:07:52
Speaker 5: This is a good question because we are absolutely called to be bearers of truth and at the exact same time, into the exact same degree, bearers of love. And what typically is missing is love. Like we are all about the truth. We'll get up there and we'll preach against what's happening at somebody's church.

01:08:14
Speaker 4: We haven't reached.

01:08:15
Speaker 5: Out to them, we haven't made a call, we haven't done any of that. And it's it's really a question of motive. So my prayer every day is Lord, let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be acceptable in your sight. It's the it's the why Am I telling you this because I want to be right? Or am I telling you this because I love you so much that.

01:08:39
Speaker 3: I want you to do There's a huge difference, and and and people pick up on that.

01:08:45
Speaker 5: It's like, so basically there's a difference between condemnation and conviction. In the absence of love, truth is condemnation. But when we add love to truth, it's conviction because because the thing is, it's like, Okay, what you're doing is not God's.

01:09:05
Speaker 1: Best for you.

01:09:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, It's very simple, like I love you so much that I want God for you, and this isn't God's best for you. So I think that's the difference. It's just the love. It's like I want I wanna see reconciliation, I wanna see restoration.

01:09:20
Speaker 4: This isn't about you're wrong, You're going to hell?

01:09:23
Speaker 1: You know ga?

01:09:23
Speaker 5: This is ooh you know what, This isn't God's best. Yeah, let's talk about how to make sure that God's best yeah, is evident in your life.

01:09:30
Speaker 4: And I love you that.

01:09:31
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, I love that. Yeah, that's good. So I wanna talk about when you said that you were saved at the age.

01:09:37
Speaker 3: Of eleven MM, but when you went home you were still being abused as a child. How did you come to understand this is the God that I'm growing to love, but this is what's happening at home and cause sometimes that would like make people lose faith? Yeah, how did you s keep your faith during that time?

01:09:55
Speaker 5: I was blessed to be able to be in community MM with the church. So so my mom did not go to church with me, but like either my friend's mom would pick me up and take me to church or to the youth Bible studies, or the youth pastor would pick me up and his family would take me to church. And I truly believe that was my lifeline. Like I looked forward to Wednesday nights because I would be in community.

01:10:16
Speaker 4: I knew that people would care, they would love me.

01:10:19
Speaker 5: I would have dinner, we would laugh, we would tell jokes and play games, and then on the drive home, my heart would just drop almost like here we go. You know, I never knew what I was going to walk into. My mom would be going off who knew what would be happening. But that was my lifeline.

01:10:35
Speaker 4: And that's why I'm a big.

01:10:36
Speaker 5: Believer in community. Like when we're experiencing pain, sometimes we will isolate ourselves and we'll be like, well, you know, I don't want people, all of them my business. It's like, this isn't about that. God said it is not good for man to be alone. He didn't say it's impossible. He says not good. And so that's that was the lifeline for me. It's being in a community and people who loved me, and that made the difference, made it bearable.

01:10:59
Speaker 3: Good communities very important and the people you have around you are so important.

01:11:03
Speaker 1: I guess thank you for sharing that, O cour Yeah.

01:11:10
Speaker 3: All right, guys, so it is time for my favorite part of the show, Positive Outcomes, where you guys write in and me and Nona are going to give you advice. Hi, Crystal, I don't know where to find my joy. I don't know the last time I had it or where I lost it. I'm looking back to see if it was a decade ago, two decades, or I just never had it. I'm turning thirty soon and I have no real true friends, but I have been friends too many I give, I help, I shelter, and I know I'm blessed. I find myself at an empty well, and when it fills up, even just a drop, I pour into others so much that starts to anger me. I can't say no, I can't not help others, but I'm drying out. I can say that when the will is at least halfway full, I'm happy. Why because I get to pour more and more. However, when it's slow, I'm feeling back empty again. I know I'm blessed. They say joy comes in the mom but I can't find it. I'm single because I'm scared of being used again, and I'm not as confident as I used to be.

01:12:06
Speaker 1: I stay home and work.

01:12:08
Speaker 3: I don't do anything outside of that, and I need to find my joy. Can you please give me some advice because I can't seem to get out of my own way.

01:12:16
Speaker 1: Well, we just talked about.

01:12:17
Speaker 3: When people are feeling down, they like to isolate themselves, and that's you stay at home and you work.

01:12:23
Speaker 1: No, No, I do wanna get.

01:12:25
Speaker 3: This into you because you are the expert mm finding joy.

01:12:32
Speaker 5: I don't know if I'm the experts, but but I do have some thoughts. So it's it sounds like not you know, knowing the person. Yeah, it sounds like there is almost this sense of vicarious validation in taking care of other people. Mm, it's and what it what it really is when we get our sense of validation from taking care of other people, it's that we want to be needed by other things. And so when you kind of click into that, the question is what made you feel that you are replaceable, that you are worthy of being discarded? Like what actually happened that made you think that unless I do this, I don't matter, like I'm not needed. I think that there needs to be some excavation of that, because that is one of those that's like a heart setting, which is if I don't do this, then I'm irrelevant, when in fact, we know that before you were formed in the womb, we know that God decided you were necessary for creation. So that's not something that I think another person's need of you can validate. That's really a decision that we have to make, is that I actually have worth, regardless of whether people feel like they need me or not. I would suggest, before running into a fire to save somebody, allow them to just smolder for a minute, because what that does is that helps you to see whether or not they actually are your friend. Sometimes when we show up immediately when somebody says they need us, it's almost like they become used to us and like what we provide, but they're not necessarily our friend. And so just listening to how she described it, it sounds like she's there for everybody else, but they're not there for her. So she's being used.

01:14:33
Speaker 4: And as long as you.

01:14:35
Speaker 5: Don't see the work that you have, you will let people use you. And so I would say that there's some foundational heart work that has to take place. It's like, why do I believe that unless somebody needs me, I don't matter. Those are some questions I would have her ask person to really get.

01:14:52
Speaker 4: To the root what's going on?

01:14:54
Speaker 1: That is so good. Thank you for that.

01:14:56
Speaker 3: You blessed me in that too. You said something I appreciate. I hope that helped you. The next we're going to do what I'm going through and what I'm growing through, and I guess we can touch on what I expressed I am going through growing closer to God and also trying to figure out how to balance my career in my walk. So that's what I got the answer today, sir, what are you going through and growing through?

01:15:33
Speaker 4: I think I am.

01:15:35
Speaker 5: Well. What I've been going through and what I'm coming out of is as God has really blessed the ministry that I have. The enemy has been like attacking my marriage in very interesting ways. And this is not something we talk about, which is why I want to talk about it. Planting thoughts and seeds and imaginations my husband and not on a weekly basis have to literally sit down and talk about, Okay, what are the thoughts, what are the imaginations, what are the resentments, what are the things like? Because on a weekly basis, it's almost like and we see it like there's so many scandals happening and all these things happening because people get out there and there's resentments in their marriage that are not dealt with. There's all types of things that are not dealt with. And so we sit down on a weekly basis like, all right, what thoughts is he going to be planning in your head about me? What resentments are you holding?

01:16:29
Speaker 1: Vice versa?

01:16:31
Speaker 5: So that's going to be continual, Like I know that like as we as a lord continues to do, what he's doing in large in my territory. I know there's a target on my back. The enemy would love nothing more than to create drama and chaos. So going through that's just going to be repetitive. I know that growing through is I am in a season of surrender truly. You know, when I stepped off the team at U version at the end of January of this year, I stepped into new role, which is global ambassador. So I'm like representing them, but I'm not doing the day to day. That wasn't my desire. Like I loved what I was doing. I loved the team I was leading.

01:17:10
Speaker 1: I loved all that.

01:17:11
Speaker 5: God called me away and told me that that's what he wanted. And even though I didn't understand it, as soon as I.

01:17:20
Speaker 4: Said yes, I felt peace.

01:17:21
Speaker 5: Wow.

01:17:22
Speaker 4: It's like I was like, I don't I don't want to do that.

01:17:24
Speaker 5: I don't get that on it, and I just had this anxiety and it's just like I was just anxious.

01:17:28
Speaker 4: As soon as I said yes, I had peace.

01:17:31
Speaker 5: And so I'm learning surrender. Like if that's why I said, the question is the answer, That's what I'm learning the fact that I have this question that is the answer, and so I'm just like, all right, father, I'm gonna surrender whatever you choose to do wherever you call me. If you say no to this thing that I have my heart set on, the answer is no.

01:17:52
Speaker 4: If you say yes to this thing, I don't want to do the answers. Yes, that's what I'm growing through.

01:17:57
Speaker 5: I love that.

01:17:58
Speaker 1: That's so good. All right.

01:18:02
Speaker 3: We're going to end the show with keep it blank, sweetie, And for this one, I'm going to say I'm gonna take the it out and say, keep that discernment, sweetie.

01:18:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, because uh yeah, what is your feeling the blaker?

01:18:17
Speaker 5: Keep it blake, sweet oh man, I would say, keep it fun, sweetie.

01:18:25
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that we just keep it fun.

01:18:27
Speaker 5: Sweet to be too serious sometimes we do keep it fun. Enjoy life.

01:18:31
Speaker 3: I love this shorter than I love it no, Thank you so much. Thank you guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to write into our open listener letter, please write in to keep it positive Sweety at.

01:18:42
Speaker 1: Gmail dot com. That is Sweety with an Ie.

01:18:45
Speaker 3: If you want to follow me, tap in at love Christal Now, on Instagram and all the platforms. Nona tell the people where they can find you.

01:18:52
Speaker 5: You can find me on all the platforms at Nonah, not Nora. I am not Nora Jones, even though if you look me up in Google, I will.

01:19:00
Speaker 4: Have her net worth.

01:19:01
Speaker 5: I am not a Grammy Award singer songwriter at Nona, no Nora or Nonah Jones dot com.

01:19:07
Speaker 1: I love it. Thank you so much.

01:19:09
Speaker 3: All right, guys, in the meantime in between time, you know what to do. Keep it positt sweeties, See y'all next time.

01:19:24
Speaker 4: Father, We're so grateful to be here this morning.

01:19:26
Speaker 5: God. We just thank you for the gift of life, the miracle of life, recognizing that there were many people who laid down last night God with a full agendic day, Father, and they did not wake up. So we just thank you Lord for the gift of life. I'm grateful for this moment, Father, that we are gathered here to have this conversation. I pray that you will lead it, and I pray for everyone who will watch it.

01:19:46
Speaker 1: God.

01:19:46
Speaker 5: May they receive encouragement, Father, May they even have answers to questions that they've had in their heart. Maybe they've been wrestling with insecurity, maybe they've been wrestling with discouragement and doubt. Father. I pray that they would receive those answers, Lord, and that their hearts will be turned toward You. I also pray God for this entire team, God recording it, God editing it.

01:20:08
Speaker 4: I pray God that you will bless the work of.

01:20:09
Speaker 5: Their hands and their hearts and continue to favor this podcast because it's a ministry. Guys, it is a ministry.

01:20:15
Speaker 1: I pray it.

01:20:15
Speaker 5: We'll go forth in your name. We pray