Entangled expressions: where quantum science and art come together

1
00:00:14,945 --> 00:00:17,105
This is the music created as part of

2
00:00:17,105 --> 00:00:18,964
a collaboration between musicians

3
00:00:19,344 --> 00:00:22,644
and quantum physicists at the Yale Quantum Institute.

4
00:00:24,304 --> 00:00:26,464
We'll be hearing about this and a new

5
00:00:26,464 --> 00:00:26,964
collaboration

6
00:00:27,425 --> 00:00:29,285
with the artist Serena Scappanini

7
00:00:29,910 --> 00:00:33,030
in this episode of the physics world stories

8
00:00:33,030 --> 00:00:33,530
podcast.

9
00:00:37,829 --> 00:00:39,909
Welcome along to this episode of the podcast

10
00:00:39,909 --> 00:00:41,750
where we will be hearing as I say

11
00:00:41,750 --> 00:00:44,390
more about that music you've just been listening

12
00:00:44,390 --> 00:00:47,494
to and we'll hear from Serena Scapagnini

13
00:00:47,954 --> 00:00:50,454
the artist whose work exploring memory

14
00:00:50,914 --> 00:00:52,134
and quantum physics

15
00:00:52,515 --> 00:00:54,695
is part of this year's collaboration

16
00:00:55,634 --> 00:00:56,134
between

17
00:00:56,754 --> 00:00:58,854
art and science at the Yale

18
00:00:59,229 --> 00:01:00,130
Quantum Institute.

19
00:01:01,950 --> 00:01:04,430
That's all to come. But first, here's the

20
00:01:04,430 --> 00:01:05,969
man behind it all,

21
00:01:06,430 --> 00:01:07,569
Florian Carr.

22
00:01:08,510 --> 00:01:11,569
The managing director of the Yale Quantum Institute.

23
00:01:12,204 --> 00:01:14,625
And when I'm not, running the institutes,

24
00:01:15,165 --> 00:01:17,965
I work with artists, that we bring in

25
00:01:17,965 --> 00:01:19,825
residence for year long residency.

26
00:01:20,444 --> 00:01:22,704
We teach them a lot about quantum physics.

27
00:01:23,165 --> 00:01:25,984
They interact with the researcher, and we create,

28
00:01:26,364 --> 00:01:26,864
artwork,

29
00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:30,099
that are quantum themes and use some of

30
00:01:30,099 --> 00:01:33,319
the quantum data, quantum principle, quantum metaphors,

31
00:01:33,939 --> 00:01:34,500
and we,

32
00:01:35,140 --> 00:01:38,180
make installation that we use for science outreach

33
00:01:38,180 --> 00:01:40,575
for the general public and for younger students

34
00:01:40,575 --> 00:01:42,174
to encourage them to do a career in

35
00:01:42,174 --> 00:01:44,034
STEM. The Quantum Institute,

36
00:01:44,415 --> 00:01:46,415
is a research center that was created at

37
00:01:46,415 --> 00:01:48,755
Yale, in 2014.

38
00:01:49,295 --> 00:01:50,515
It regroups 30,

39
00:01:51,055 --> 00:01:53,849
research groups. We have around 350

40
00:01:53,849 --> 00:01:54,349
researcher,

41
00:01:54,730 --> 00:01:56,989
including students, postdoc grad students,

42
00:01:57,370 --> 00:01:59,549
and, of course, faculty and staff researcher.

43
00:02:00,170 --> 00:02:02,650
And, we work on everything that is science

44
00:02:02,650 --> 00:02:04,349
information, quantum science information.

45
00:02:05,085 --> 00:02:06,444
And the the idea is to try to

46
00:02:06,444 --> 00:02:09,564
encourage people from different departments to work together

47
00:02:09,564 --> 00:02:10,865
to build quantum technology.

48
00:02:11,165 --> 00:02:12,865
So we have people in the institutes

49
00:02:13,165 --> 00:02:15,485
that are, from applied physics, from physics, from

50
00:02:15,485 --> 00:02:18,330
chemistry, computer science, electrical engineer. All of these

51
00:02:18,330 --> 00:02:20,810
people were coming together both on the theory

52
00:02:20,810 --> 00:02:22,909
side and the experimental side

53
00:02:23,210 --> 00:02:25,550
to, to collaborate and building new machines.

54
00:02:25,849 --> 00:02:27,849
Of course, we have a big chunk of

55
00:02:27,849 --> 00:02:30,349
the institutes dedicated in building superconductive

56
00:02:30,650 --> 00:02:31,790
cubits machines,

57
00:02:32,465 --> 00:02:35,764
but, we are mostly a fundamental research group.

58
00:02:35,985 --> 00:02:37,685
We do a lot about quantum sensors.

59
00:02:37,985 --> 00:02:39,925
We do a lot about quantum error correction,

60
00:02:40,705 --> 00:02:42,564
and some some quantum materials.

61
00:02:42,944 --> 00:02:45,300
We have a very large, scope of interest.

62
00:02:45,939 --> 00:02:48,580
And so the Quantum Institute is trying to

63
00:02:48,580 --> 00:02:51,379
be the home of everything quantum at Yale

64
00:02:51,379 --> 00:02:53,139
too. So so we are the the front

65
00:02:53,139 --> 00:02:55,540
door. So if somebody has a question about

66
00:02:55,540 --> 00:02:57,699
quantum or if a company wants to to

67
00:02:57,699 --> 00:02:59,615
work with us or, like, they have a

68
00:02:59,615 --> 00:03:02,014
case use problem that they want researcher to

69
00:03:02,014 --> 00:03:02,675
to fix.

70
00:03:03,215 --> 00:03:05,055
They come in. We try to pair them

71
00:03:05,055 --> 00:03:05,875
with researcher,

72
00:03:06,254 --> 00:03:08,415
and hopefully, down the line, one or two

73
00:03:08,415 --> 00:03:09,935
years down the line, we have a solution

74
00:03:09,935 --> 00:03:10,594
for them.

75
00:03:10,974 --> 00:03:13,294
Okay. And are you a quantum physicist then?

76
00:03:13,294 --> 00:03:14,969
Is that how you ended up there? I

77
00:03:14,969 --> 00:03:16,590
am not. I am actually,

78
00:03:16,969 --> 00:03:18,030
a rocket scientist.

79
00:03:18,569 --> 00:03:20,030
So I was, studying,

80
00:03:21,209 --> 00:03:23,689
heat transfer in France, and I was working

81
00:03:23,689 --> 00:03:26,169
with NICNEC, which is the national center for

82
00:03:26,169 --> 00:03:29,150
space, in France, and the ESA, the European

83
00:03:29,289 --> 00:03:30,189
Space Agency.

84
00:03:30,544 --> 00:03:32,944
And I was studying the evaporation of alcohol

85
00:03:32,944 --> 00:03:34,625
droplets in this plane,

86
00:03:35,104 --> 00:03:37,985
flying in parabolas instead of, flying straight in

87
00:03:37,985 --> 00:03:38,485
border.

88
00:03:39,025 --> 00:03:41,425
And, we were studying the, the effect of

89
00:03:41,425 --> 00:03:42,084
the Magdalene

90
00:03:42,719 --> 00:03:44,319
in the droplets. And so the idea was

91
00:03:44,319 --> 00:03:45,379
to try to understand

92
00:03:45,919 --> 00:03:46,900
how to increase,

93
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,219
cooling when we don't have gravity.

94
00:03:49,599 --> 00:03:50,900
And then I slowly shifted,

95
00:03:51,519 --> 00:03:54,400
into material science, moved to Yale to do,

96
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,305
a post doc in material science working with,

97
00:03:57,544 --> 00:03:59,405
liquid metals and injecting,

98
00:04:00,584 --> 00:04:02,284
a bit of magnetic and,

99
00:04:03,224 --> 00:04:05,004
iron powders in this liquid

100
00:04:05,384 --> 00:04:07,384
to try to, come up with a small

101
00:04:07,384 --> 00:04:09,689
model for the core of Earth to have,

102
00:04:09,689 --> 00:04:11,389
like, a smaller scale side of things.

103
00:04:11,849 --> 00:04:14,409
And then after a few years, the Quantum

104
00:04:14,409 --> 00:04:15,930
Institute was looking for,

105
00:04:16,410 --> 00:04:17,310
for a manager.

106
00:04:17,689 --> 00:04:20,490
And I realized that my skill set was

107
00:04:20,490 --> 00:04:22,589
more suited to help researcher

108
00:04:23,129 --> 00:04:24,829
more than doing the research myself,

109
00:04:25,345 --> 00:04:27,504
because I'm I'm fascinated with learning about all

110
00:04:27,504 --> 00:04:28,404
of these new things.

111
00:04:28,944 --> 00:04:31,444
But I'm I'm much more proficient in,

112
00:04:32,625 --> 00:04:33,524
science communication,

113
00:04:33,824 --> 00:04:36,225
in trying to, like, build a community of

114
00:04:36,225 --> 00:04:38,625
scientists to have large scale projects. So that's

115
00:04:38,625 --> 00:04:41,439
why I shifted to more, like, management of

116
00:04:41,439 --> 00:04:42,740
science side of things.

117
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,080
Okay. And how many times a week does

118
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,480
somebody say to you that's not rocket science,

119
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,819
but since you've learned more from rocket science?

120
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:52,485
Quite a lot. Quite a lot.

121
00:04:53,044 --> 00:04:54,745
This is my favorite icebreaker.

122
00:04:55,444 --> 00:04:56,884
I do a lot of, I'll I do

123
00:04:56,884 --> 00:04:59,204
a lot of intro to quantum talks, for

124
00:04:59,204 --> 00:05:00,805
people outside of the field, like some sort

125
00:05:00,805 --> 00:05:03,284
of one hour quantum one zero one. And

126
00:05:03,284 --> 00:05:04,860
one of my jokes that I can only

127
00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:06,660
do it if the new people if there's

128
00:05:06,660 --> 00:05:08,339
new people in the audience, but, yeah, that's

129
00:05:08,339 --> 00:05:10,100
like, we're gonna do quantum physics. I showed

130
00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:11,459
them a lot of equation. I was like,

131
00:05:11,459 --> 00:05:13,399
ah, don't worry. That's not rocket science.

132
00:05:14,019 --> 00:05:16,120
So best built in icebreaker

133
00:05:16,579 --> 00:05:19,294
on that. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's funny

134
00:05:19,294 --> 00:05:21,694
because every time people, people say that, I'm

135
00:05:21,694 --> 00:05:22,435
like, oh,

136
00:05:22,975 --> 00:05:24,035
nice to say that.

137
00:05:27,055 --> 00:05:30,014
So you've got this, the the science background.

138
00:05:30,014 --> 00:05:31,454
So what what and you talked a bit

139
00:05:31,454 --> 00:05:34,069
about science communication. What drew you towards? I

140
00:05:34,069 --> 00:05:35,990
mean, is it your idea to have a

141
00:05:35,990 --> 00:05:37,910
a an artist in residence in this artist

142
00:05:37,910 --> 00:05:38,970
program at Yale?

143
00:05:39,910 --> 00:05:40,730
Yeah. So

144
00:05:41,110 --> 00:05:43,110
I think I I need to give credits

145
00:05:43,110 --> 00:05:45,910
to France and growing up in France to,

146
00:05:46,310 --> 00:05:48,254
like, give me this idea. There's there's a

147
00:05:48,254 --> 00:05:49,314
lot of events,

148
00:05:49,694 --> 00:05:52,514
in France that are mixing art and science.

149
00:05:52,574 --> 00:05:54,574
I feel that a lot of, like, street

150
00:05:54,574 --> 00:05:56,334
arts, a lot of museum of science, a

151
00:05:56,334 --> 00:05:58,574
lot of proper museum that have this kind

152
00:05:58,574 --> 00:06:00,334
of, like there's not really a disconnect between

153
00:06:00,334 --> 00:06:02,310
art and science in France. And growing up

154
00:06:02,550 --> 00:06:04,389
there really gave me the sense of, like,

155
00:06:04,389 --> 00:06:06,310
these two things belong together. And when I

156
00:06:06,310 --> 00:06:07,910
moved to The US, there was a really

157
00:06:07,910 --> 00:06:11,029
big shift of, like, the the humanities were

158
00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:12,629
doing their thing. The science were doing their

159
00:06:12,629 --> 00:06:13,129
thing.

160
00:06:13,509 --> 00:06:14,009
And,

161
00:06:14,389 --> 00:06:16,974
and despite the fact that Yale is a

162
00:06:16,974 --> 00:06:19,474
liberal arts school, they're trying to, like, encourage

163
00:06:19,854 --> 00:06:20,354
interdisciplinary.

164
00:06:21,294 --> 00:06:23,055
In practice, it was not done quite a

165
00:06:23,055 --> 00:06:26,514
lot. And so I started in 2,017.

166
00:06:26,654 --> 00:06:28,654
We started small. We started with a small

167
00:06:28,654 --> 00:06:30,540
series of talk mixing two topics,

168
00:06:31,420 --> 00:06:34,060
one in the humanities and one in in

169
00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:34,560
science.

170
00:06:35,100 --> 00:06:37,660
And, the first talk was about how quantum

171
00:06:37,660 --> 00:06:40,379
physics democratize music. And so it it was,

172
00:06:40,620 --> 00:06:41,120
somebody,

173
00:06:43,814 --> 00:06:45,355
sir MacBury, I think,

174
00:06:45,735 --> 00:06:48,615
was, was giving a talk on on on,

175
00:06:49,014 --> 00:06:51,735
all of the application that quantum mechanics and

176
00:06:51,735 --> 00:06:54,314
and the fundamental research in quantum mechanics,

177
00:06:55,254 --> 00:06:56,879
were used for music. So, like, all of

178
00:06:56,879 --> 00:06:58,959
the laser, compact disc, and all of this

179
00:06:58,959 --> 00:06:59,459
technology

180
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,720
was developed thanks to fundamental research in quantum

181
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:03,220
mechanics.

182
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,199
And during that talk, a lot of the

183
00:07:05,199 --> 00:07:05,699
audience,

184
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,495
was completely unknown to me. Usually, we have

185
00:07:09,975 --> 00:07:11,894
all scientists come to our talks, and this

186
00:07:11,894 --> 00:07:13,495
time we had people from outside the field

187
00:07:13,495 --> 00:07:15,175
coming in. And I was like, oh, there's

188
00:07:15,175 --> 00:07:17,354
something here. And we slowly build up having,

189
00:07:17,654 --> 00:07:20,615
this series of talk. Now we've done 22

190
00:07:20,615 --> 00:07:22,714
talks in this series over the years.

191
00:07:23,459 --> 00:07:25,939
And so we we started building things, like

192
00:07:25,939 --> 00:07:28,099
we did physics and dance. We did mathematic

193
00:07:28,099 --> 00:07:30,680
and crochet. We did architecture and sounds.

194
00:07:31,300 --> 00:07:34,279
Lot of these things, history in quantum physics.

195
00:07:34,579 --> 00:07:36,579
And and then slowly building on this, we're

196
00:07:36,579 --> 00:07:38,154
like, oh, it would be so nice if

197
00:07:38,154 --> 00:07:39,915
we could have an artist in residence and

198
00:07:39,915 --> 00:07:40,654
go further.

199
00:07:41,595 --> 00:07:43,355
And the idea was to try to bring

200
00:07:43,355 --> 00:07:45,455
someone in to try to

201
00:07:45,834 --> 00:07:46,334
visualize

202
00:07:46,714 --> 00:07:47,375
a complex

203
00:07:47,675 --> 00:07:49,055
concept in quantum mechanics,

204
00:07:49,595 --> 00:07:51,774
because as human, we are fundamentally

205
00:07:52,074 --> 00:07:52,574
anchored

206
00:07:52,899 --> 00:07:55,220
in the classical world. We have, like, we

207
00:07:55,220 --> 00:07:57,160
have big bodies that are,

208
00:07:57,699 --> 00:07:59,079
submitted to to gravity.

209
00:07:59,379 --> 00:08:01,139
And and when you go to smaller skills,

210
00:08:01,139 --> 00:08:03,539
you have things like the observer effects, like

211
00:08:03,539 --> 00:08:06,134
the the superposition of states, and it gets

212
00:08:06,134 --> 00:08:08,534
really, really difficult for us to understand, to

213
00:08:08,534 --> 00:08:09,914
wrap our hands around it.

214
00:08:10,294 --> 00:08:10,794
And,

215
00:08:11,175 --> 00:08:13,435
by having really interesting visuals,

216
00:08:14,615 --> 00:08:16,214
it might be easier to, like, start the

217
00:08:16,214 --> 00:08:16,714
conversation.

218
00:08:17,095 --> 00:08:19,414
The the idea is not to not to,

219
00:08:19,414 --> 00:08:19,889
like,

220
00:08:20,290 --> 00:08:21,509
make the artwork

221
00:08:21,889 --> 00:08:23,750
into a museum science

222
00:08:24,050 --> 00:08:24,550
diorama.

223
00:08:24,930 --> 00:08:27,009
The idea is to do some fine arts

224
00:08:27,009 --> 00:08:28,230
that spark interest.

225
00:08:28,610 --> 00:08:30,370
And then when people come in, they have,

226
00:08:30,370 --> 00:08:32,290
like, oh, this is this cool visual. We

227
00:08:32,290 --> 00:08:33,889
can come in. We have we we did

228
00:08:33,889 --> 00:08:34,629
in the past

229
00:08:35,144 --> 00:08:36,684
installations. We did music,

230
00:08:37,144 --> 00:08:38,924
videos. We did live concerts.

231
00:08:39,304 --> 00:08:39,964
We did,

232
00:08:40,345 --> 00:08:42,365
light shows. On facade, we did museums,

233
00:08:42,904 --> 00:08:43,404
applications,

234
00:08:43,945 --> 00:08:45,964
and recently with, Serena Scampagnini,

235
00:08:46,504 --> 00:08:47,225
we did some,

236
00:08:47,625 --> 00:08:50,290
on on-site installation with paper. And so we

237
00:08:50,290 --> 00:08:52,529
wanted people to come in, have a spark

238
00:08:52,529 --> 00:08:54,929
of interest, and then look at the little

239
00:08:54,929 --> 00:08:57,570
pamphlets and figure out why it's quantum. And

240
00:08:57,570 --> 00:08:58,710
we hope that people,

241
00:08:59,250 --> 00:09:01,649
get interested enough that they can go on

242
00:09:01,649 --> 00:09:03,170
their own and, like, maybe watch a YouTube

243
00:09:03,170 --> 00:09:05,754
video explaining the the key concept or maybe

244
00:09:05,754 --> 00:09:07,434
taking the next, like, quantum one zero one

245
00:09:07,434 --> 00:09:10,075
class if, at the school or maybe, like,

246
00:09:10,075 --> 00:09:11,274
picking up a book of,

247
00:09:12,315 --> 00:09:15,615
like, science outreach about quantum mechanics. And then

248
00:09:15,754 --> 00:09:16,254
that

249
00:09:17,074 --> 00:09:19,434
that's basically, I I wanted with this program

250
00:09:19,434 --> 00:09:20,654
to to fight

251
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,679
science phobia and the fact that, people are

252
00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,139
scared of talking about it.

253
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:27,279
There's this thing when I go to to

254
00:09:27,279 --> 00:09:28,799
parties and I say, oh, I work with

255
00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:31,600
quantum physicist. People open their eyes wide and

256
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,519
say, oh, you must be so smart or

257
00:09:33,519 --> 00:09:35,424
like, oh, it's so difficult. It's not for

258
00:09:35,424 --> 00:09:37,284
me. And then the conversion shutdowns.

259
00:09:37,904 --> 00:09:39,264
But then if somebody say, like, oh, I'm

260
00:09:39,264 --> 00:09:41,024
a neurosurgeon. People are like, oh, that's so

261
00:09:41,024 --> 00:09:42,544
cool. You go into brains and do this.

262
00:09:42,544 --> 00:09:44,964
I'm like, I'm pretty sure they don't. But,

263
00:09:46,065 --> 00:09:46,565
people,

264
00:09:47,105 --> 00:09:47,850
people, like,

265
00:09:48,889 --> 00:09:52,089
engage with whatever all the very difficult jobs

266
00:09:52,089 --> 00:09:54,089
are. But, like, somehow with quantum physics, it's

267
00:09:54,089 --> 00:09:55,690
okay to say, no. I don't wanna talk

268
00:09:55,690 --> 00:09:57,149
about it. And so,

269
00:09:58,329 --> 00:10:00,909
I wanted to give these people, like,

270
00:10:02,089 --> 00:10:04,284
an access ramp and say, okay. I know

271
00:10:04,284 --> 00:10:05,884
you don't know much about quantum physics, but,

272
00:10:05,884 --> 00:10:07,825
like, come see this artwork. And then

273
00:10:08,284 --> 00:10:09,584
if you like the artwork

274
00:10:10,125 --> 00:10:12,225
and that's all that you want to do,

275
00:10:12,284 --> 00:10:14,125
that's fine. You just go you just watch

276
00:10:14,125 --> 00:10:16,490
some cool art. But if you if you're

277
00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:18,490
interested enough, it might help you next time

278
00:10:18,490 --> 00:10:20,250
somebody else talk about quantum physics. You'll be

279
00:10:20,250 --> 00:10:22,829
like, oh, I remember we talked about supervision

280
00:10:22,889 --> 00:10:25,129
of state with this installation that had, like,

281
00:10:25,129 --> 00:10:26,809
a webcam tracking me, and I could be

282
00:10:26,809 --> 00:10:28,605
in two place at once. And and that's

283
00:10:28,605 --> 00:10:30,445
basically what I'm trying to do, trying to

284
00:10:30,445 --> 00:10:32,465
give give them a lot of visuals,

285
00:10:33,565 --> 00:10:34,065
so,

286
00:10:35,725 --> 00:10:38,044
they can grasp onto the metaphor or the

287
00:10:38,044 --> 00:10:39,184
concept and things.

288
00:10:39,725 --> 00:10:41,825
Okay. Can you tell me about that webcam

289
00:10:42,269 --> 00:10:44,050
tracking people and being a Yeah.

290
00:10:44,509 --> 00:10:46,750
So this was an installation by our first,

291
00:10:46,750 --> 00:10:49,090
very first artist in residence, Martha Lewis.

292
00:10:50,750 --> 00:10:53,710
She was very fascinating by the superconductive qubits

293
00:10:53,710 --> 00:10:55,550
machines because they were in this, like, really

294
00:10:55,550 --> 00:10:56,370
cool fridges,

295
00:10:56,954 --> 00:10:57,934
dilution refrigerator

296
00:10:58,394 --> 00:11:01,054
that runs at, almost absolute zero.

297
00:11:01,434 --> 00:11:03,754
And she wanted people to be able to

298
00:11:03,754 --> 00:11:07,034
enter these fridges. So we built this in

299
00:11:07,034 --> 00:11:09,534
our institute, this gigantic installation

300
00:11:10,154 --> 00:11:11,454
with curtains around

301
00:11:11,799 --> 00:11:15,320
and people could come in. And on the

302
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,740
ceiling of the institute, we had a webcam

303
00:11:17,799 --> 00:11:19,500
tracking the position of the people.

304
00:11:19,879 --> 00:11:22,600
And the, one of the grad students, Stephane

305
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:23,500
Krabs Zaneuf

306
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:25,980
was working on an algorithm

307
00:11:26,815 --> 00:11:29,054
to detect the parity in a system. So

308
00:11:29,054 --> 00:11:30,434
basically, they were entangling

309
00:11:30,975 --> 00:11:33,294
qubits and trying to figure out if the

310
00:11:33,294 --> 00:11:36,174
spin were both up or opposite. So, like,

311
00:11:36,174 --> 00:11:37,315
either equal or opposite.

312
00:11:37,855 --> 00:11:41,389
And, and so when the the people were

313
00:11:41,389 --> 00:11:44,269
inside the installation, the webcam was tracking their

314
00:11:44,269 --> 00:11:44,769
position

315
00:11:45,389 --> 00:11:49,309
and the, basically, the observer effect came into

316
00:11:49,309 --> 00:11:51,009
play. You were basically locking

317
00:11:51,470 --> 00:11:53,250
where you were in the diagram

318
00:11:53,654 --> 00:11:55,735
locked in and then the algorithm was trying

319
00:11:55,735 --> 00:11:59,334
to finish the the the the patterns on

320
00:11:59,334 --> 00:12:01,574
on the ceiling. But the cool thing about

321
00:12:01,574 --> 00:12:03,115
this installation is that

322
00:12:04,054 --> 00:12:06,615
the only way to solve this pattern was

323
00:12:06,615 --> 00:12:08,889
for nobody to be inside the installation because

324
00:12:08,889 --> 00:12:11,370
you could have superposition of states. And so

325
00:12:11,370 --> 00:12:13,309
it's picture a Sudoku

326
00:12:13,929 --> 00:12:16,250
where at the end of the Sudoku, you

327
00:12:16,250 --> 00:12:17,629
have one square left

328
00:12:18,009 --> 00:12:19,449
and then it it needs to be a

329
00:12:19,449 --> 00:12:21,075
three and a five at the same time.

330
00:12:21,235 --> 00:12:23,315
And so it doesn't work because you're here

331
00:12:23,315 --> 00:12:24,754
trying to say, like, no. It can only

332
00:12:24,754 --> 00:12:25,735
be three or five.

333
00:12:26,434 --> 00:12:28,754
But, when you're outside of the experience or

334
00:12:28,754 --> 00:12:29,815
outside of the installation,

335
00:12:30,835 --> 00:12:33,794
the superintendent of states was happy to have

336
00:12:33,794 --> 00:12:35,475
a three and a five, for example. And

337
00:12:35,475 --> 00:12:37,769
so you could solve this this diagram. And

338
00:12:37,769 --> 00:12:39,230
so that was the idea of, like,

339
00:12:39,610 --> 00:12:41,370
you are a bit of the problem in

340
00:12:41,370 --> 00:12:43,210
a quantum system. So you need to, like,

341
00:12:43,370 --> 00:12:45,389
space on space out on this thing.

342
00:12:46,009 --> 00:12:48,009
So when you're doing something like that, I

343
00:12:48,009 --> 00:12:49,529
mean, you said that the people you know,

344
00:12:49,529 --> 00:12:51,129
you don't mind if people might just come

345
00:12:51,129 --> 00:12:52,924
and enjoy the the artwork of this. Are

346
00:12:52,924 --> 00:12:53,424
you

347
00:12:54,365 --> 00:12:55,985
what is the feedback from people?

348
00:12:57,404 --> 00:13:00,225
So I was very interested in having

349
00:13:00,924 --> 00:13:02,784
artists that have a mature

350
00:13:03,245 --> 00:13:06,044
body of work because the the the the

351
00:13:06,044 --> 00:13:08,500
task we we are asking them is quite

352
00:13:08,500 --> 00:13:10,500
difficult. Come to this place you don't know,

353
00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:12,179
on a topic you don't know, and make

354
00:13:12,179 --> 00:13:14,259
some art about it. And so it was

355
00:13:14,259 --> 00:13:16,740
very important for me for the artist to

356
00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:19,940
work on their practice and have fine arts

357
00:13:19,940 --> 00:13:22,304
and have something they prod off. And then

358
00:13:22,304 --> 00:13:25,504
on the side, my job is to bring

359
00:13:25,504 --> 00:13:29,184
the visitor in and develop materials, develop brochure,

360
00:13:29,184 --> 00:13:31,665
pamphlet explaining the key concept in a way

361
00:13:31,665 --> 00:13:32,485
that's easy.

362
00:13:32,865 --> 00:13:35,345
And so that way, when people come in,

363
00:13:35,345 --> 00:13:36,004
they can

364
00:13:36,379 --> 00:13:38,059
branch out and figure out, like, oh, I

365
00:13:38,059 --> 00:13:39,580
want I'm interested more in the art. I

366
00:13:39,580 --> 00:13:40,940
can talk to the artist. I'm interested in

367
00:13:40,940 --> 00:13:42,220
the science. I can talk to you to

368
00:13:42,220 --> 00:13:42,720
Florian.

369
00:13:43,580 --> 00:13:45,919
And the feedback has been really good because,

370
00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:47,360
we

371
00:13:48,404 --> 00:13:50,584
we started in 02/2017.

372
00:13:50,964 --> 00:13:51,445
And,

373
00:13:52,164 --> 00:13:54,725
to a a few weeks ago, Syrna's company,

374
00:13:54,725 --> 00:13:56,644
the installation was featured at the Arts and

375
00:13:56,644 --> 00:13:57,464
Idea Festival,

376
00:13:58,485 --> 00:14:00,245
and so 2025.

377
00:14:00,245 --> 00:14:02,485
And we still had people who came in

378
00:14:02,485 --> 00:14:05,610
and say, oh, we came to this event

379
00:14:05,610 --> 00:14:06,830
in 2017.

380
00:14:07,050 --> 00:14:09,129
We didn't understand about it. And every year,

381
00:14:09,129 --> 00:14:10,889
we came back to more and more. And

382
00:14:10,889 --> 00:14:12,110
now we don't understand

383
00:14:12,490 --> 00:14:14,750
completely everything, but we have a better understanding.

384
00:14:15,050 --> 00:14:17,384
And so the feedback has been really, really

385
00:14:17,384 --> 00:14:19,384
positive because I think people are curious. We

386
00:14:19,384 --> 00:14:21,245
just haven't find a way

387
00:14:21,865 --> 00:14:24,424
to give them easy enough access to our

388
00:14:24,424 --> 00:14:24,924
discipline.

389
00:14:25,865 --> 00:14:27,705
And then one of the feedback that made

390
00:14:27,705 --> 00:14:29,304
me so proud because there was always a

391
00:14:29,304 --> 00:14:31,199
bit of questioning about, like, why are we

392
00:14:31,199 --> 00:14:33,919
spending so much money on making art or

393
00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:35,699
on, like, this outreach program?

394
00:14:36,159 --> 00:14:38,819
And, two years ago, we had two prospective

395
00:14:38,879 --> 00:14:41,120
students, two girls that came in through the

396
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,899
to the labs and through the institutes

397
00:14:43,414 --> 00:14:44,615
And they they came to me and they

398
00:14:44,615 --> 00:14:47,014
said, like, oh, you're foreign. Oh, we picked

399
00:14:47,014 --> 00:14:48,855
to come to Yale because we saw your

400
00:14:48,855 --> 00:14:50,774
artwork project things, and it was so cool.

401
00:14:50,774 --> 00:14:51,975
And I don't want to be a full

402
00:14:51,975 --> 00:14:54,454
time engineer. I'm also interested in art. And,

403
00:14:54,454 --> 00:14:56,214
like, that was the reason why they picked

404
00:14:56,214 --> 00:14:58,080
Yale because they have they could do both.

405
00:14:58,080 --> 00:14:59,839
They could be a great scientist, but also

406
00:14:59,839 --> 00:15:01,360
a great artist in the way. And so

407
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:02,740
I think it has resonated

408
00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:05,759
pretty well. And the the feedback has been

409
00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:06,740
really overwhelmingly

410
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:07,940
positive.

411
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,320
So, and that's why I think that's why

412
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,159
we've been continuing with, like, bigger and bigger

413
00:15:12,159 --> 00:15:14,424
project over the years. That's brilliant. That's really,

414
00:15:14,424 --> 00:15:15,784
really brilliant. I'm gonna tell you a quick

415
00:15:15,784 --> 00:15:18,105
story just while we're here because Please do.

416
00:15:18,105 --> 00:15:19,225
So I have in my,

417
00:15:20,904 --> 00:15:23,225
in my distant past before becoming a lecturer

418
00:15:23,225 --> 00:15:25,500
and just doing marking, I have made,

419
00:15:25,899 --> 00:15:27,980
science art shows myself in the in the

420
00:15:27,980 --> 00:15:29,980
distant past. And I once made one, which

421
00:15:29,980 --> 00:15:31,679
happened at Manchester Science Festival.

422
00:15:33,259 --> 00:15:34,700
It I I don't really want to go

423
00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:36,860
into the detail on it, but about four

424
00:15:36,860 --> 00:15:39,259
year no. Six years later, I was standing

425
00:15:39,259 --> 00:15:42,345
at the opening ceremony thing of, the Monster

426
00:15:42,345 --> 00:15:44,745
Sized Festival again, and I was standing as

427
00:15:44,745 --> 00:15:46,125
the director of the festival.

428
00:15:46,745 --> 00:15:47,245
And,

429
00:15:47,945 --> 00:15:50,345
somebody came up to the director, and she

430
00:15:50,345 --> 00:15:52,424
said, I just wanted to say to you

431
00:15:52,424 --> 00:15:54,024
that we came to a show at your

432
00:15:54,024 --> 00:15:54,524
festival,

433
00:15:55,399 --> 00:15:57,800
six years ago, and my daughter was then

434
00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,660
in, you know, whenever she was

435
00:16:00,279 --> 00:16:00,779
12,

436
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,519
and it completely changed her perception of science

437
00:16:04,519 --> 00:16:06,759
and made her want to become a scientist

438
00:16:06,759 --> 00:16:08,735
as she's now going to study physics at

439
00:16:08,735 --> 00:16:11,075
Manchester University. And I was studying there going,

440
00:16:11,214 --> 00:16:12,654
I wonder if it was mine. And then

441
00:16:12,654 --> 00:16:14,334
she said, which show was it? And she

442
00:16:14,334 --> 00:16:16,575
said, obviously, it was mine. And it's just

443
00:16:16,575 --> 00:16:20,195
a wonderful, wonderful thing. Congrats. That's amazing.

444
00:16:21,054 --> 00:16:23,294
No. But that's exactly why that's the reason

445
00:16:23,294 --> 00:16:25,110
why I think. I I think I had

446
00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:27,990
this experience growing up. I went to this

447
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:29,590
kind of shows and then I was like,

448
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:31,190
oh, this is why I'm so interested in

449
00:16:31,190 --> 00:16:33,269
science. It's because, like, it it didn't seem

450
00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:35,350
scary. It didn't seem like it was a

451
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:38,034
class. It's if you brought up with,

452
00:16:38,335 --> 00:16:39,774
like, oh, this is the cool thing that

453
00:16:39,774 --> 00:16:42,095
happens and come experience this fun thing and

454
00:16:42,095 --> 00:16:44,355
come, like, get zapped by the, like,

455
00:16:45,134 --> 00:16:48,095
electricity display or come get the, like, see

456
00:16:48,095 --> 00:16:50,254
the lighting shifts with the the diagrams and

457
00:16:50,254 --> 00:16:51,855
you can see rainbows with light when you

458
00:16:51,855 --> 00:16:54,039
split the lights. Like, all of this cool

459
00:16:54,039 --> 00:16:55,019
thing makes it

460
00:16:55,559 --> 00:16:58,200
you you stop in an hour instead of

461
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,799
of being like, oh, this is an equation.

462
00:16:59,799 --> 00:17:01,580
I'm scary. And and and I think

463
00:17:02,279 --> 00:17:04,279
the the reason why I,

464
00:17:05,134 --> 00:17:07,555
I feel that my English is good enough

465
00:17:07,615 --> 00:17:09,795
is because I had a a theater teacher.

466
00:17:10,015 --> 00:17:11,855
The my English teacher was doing theater. We

467
00:17:11,855 --> 00:17:14,414
were playing doing Shakespeare. And she was mimicking

468
00:17:14,414 --> 00:17:16,095
and miming all of the words we didn't

469
00:17:16,095 --> 00:17:18,174
know in English, learning English as a second

470
00:17:18,174 --> 00:17:18,660
language.

471
00:17:19,059 --> 00:17:21,220
And I was fascinating with her because it

472
00:17:21,220 --> 00:17:23,460
was so like, the the teaching was so

473
00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:25,700
good that it didn't feel like learning. And

474
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:28,660
as the opposite, my Spanish teacher was really

475
00:17:28,660 --> 00:17:30,039
doing, like, academic

476
00:17:30,340 --> 00:17:30,840
settings,

477
00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:33,285
and I cannot speak a word of Spanish.

478
00:17:33,684 --> 00:17:35,605
And so, like but for almost the same

479
00:17:35,605 --> 00:17:37,445
amount of of teaching. And so I think

480
00:17:37,445 --> 00:17:38,345
it's very important

481
00:17:39,045 --> 00:17:39,545
to,

482
00:17:40,005 --> 00:17:42,565
like, spark interest because you cannot force someone

483
00:17:42,565 --> 00:17:44,244
to teach, like, to learn all of these

484
00:17:44,244 --> 00:17:46,884
things. But you can give the spark and

485
00:17:46,884 --> 00:17:48,509
then if you and then let them go,

486
00:17:48,509 --> 00:17:50,750
and then they will grab like, if if

487
00:17:50,750 --> 00:17:52,110
you give them hungry for the for the

488
00:17:52,110 --> 00:17:54,029
knowledge, they will go on their own and

489
00:17:54,029 --> 00:17:56,210
then become like a brilliant scientist.

490
00:17:56,910 --> 00:17:57,809
Yeah. Absolutely.

491
00:17:58,110 --> 00:18:00,269
I I I I wonder if you have

492
00:18:00,269 --> 00:18:01,630
an insight on this. Don't worry if you

493
00:18:01,630 --> 00:18:04,174
don't. But there's there is this cultural thing

494
00:18:04,174 --> 00:18:06,975
of of, you know, saying, oh, physics quantum

495
00:18:06,975 --> 00:18:08,515
physics is really hard.

496
00:18:08,894 --> 00:18:12,434
But, you know, art, that's that's not difficult.

497
00:18:12,575 --> 00:18:15,375
But, actually, art is quite difficult to understand

498
00:18:15,375 --> 00:18:17,154
for some people, but it's sort of culturally

499
00:18:17,215 --> 00:18:18,789
not okay to say that. But it is

500
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:21,589
culturally okay to say, oh, physics is too

501
00:18:21,589 --> 00:18:23,269
hard for me. What do you have an

502
00:18:23,269 --> 00:18:24,730
idea of why that is?

503
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:29,130
I think it might come from nerd culture.

504
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:31,109
It was okay to, like, hate on the

505
00:18:31,109 --> 00:18:33,244
nerds in, like, high school to be like,

506
00:18:33,244 --> 00:18:35,544
oh, it's just the nerds doing their books

507
00:18:35,924 --> 00:18:38,664
things. And then it's not cool. And then

508
00:18:38,724 --> 00:18:39,304
I think

509
00:18:39,924 --> 00:18:42,484
arts and being, like, cool and playing music

510
00:18:42,484 --> 00:18:44,490
or being in the band or, like like,

511
00:18:44,490 --> 00:18:46,529
I'm I'm picturing the Skittle boys, but, like,

512
00:18:46,529 --> 00:18:49,009
that's not really but, like, the cool kids

513
00:18:49,009 --> 00:18:51,410
were not doing science. The couldkills were doing

514
00:18:51,410 --> 00:18:53,829
sports or cool things or art.

515
00:18:54,529 --> 00:18:56,450
And and then I think it was okay

516
00:18:56,450 --> 00:18:58,795
okay to hate on the nerds that were

517
00:18:58,795 --> 00:19:01,035
doing the the book thing. And it might

518
00:19:01,035 --> 00:19:02,095
come in from, like,

519
00:19:02,634 --> 00:19:03,695
the high school

520
00:19:04,555 --> 00:19:07,375
clicks that happens because to be a scientist,

521
00:19:07,595 --> 00:19:09,355
unfortunately, you have to be really good at

522
00:19:09,355 --> 00:19:11,355
your homework. You have to, like, put some

523
00:19:11,355 --> 00:19:12,589
work early

524
00:19:12,970 --> 00:19:15,529
on. I had a very boring childhood in

525
00:19:15,529 --> 00:19:17,609
in high school middle school, high school, and,

526
00:19:17,609 --> 00:19:19,849
like, first year of college, lot of lot

527
00:19:19,849 --> 00:19:22,009
of homework, lot of working. And then the

528
00:19:22,009 --> 00:19:24,730
cool the coolness comes later on. And so

529
00:19:24,730 --> 00:19:27,450
people maybe see the, oh, the nerds are,

530
00:19:27,450 --> 00:19:27,825
like,

531
00:19:28,784 --> 00:19:30,865
reading books and then you don't you don't

532
00:19:30,865 --> 00:19:32,544
do the cool thing until later on. There's

533
00:19:32,544 --> 00:19:33,845
a delayed gratification

534
00:19:34,384 --> 00:19:36,724
on, like, when it becomes extremely

535
00:19:37,105 --> 00:19:38,804
interesting. But you need to build

536
00:19:39,105 --> 00:19:40,710
all of that. I don't want to say

537
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:42,789
boring knowledge, but, like, the the the stepping

538
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:44,549
stone to do the cool thing at the

539
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:46,089
end. And maybe that's why

540
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:48,150
I I mean, I don't know if it's

541
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:50,069
the reason why people are okay to say

542
00:19:50,069 --> 00:19:51,369
quantum physics is,

543
00:19:52,309 --> 00:19:54,789
is, like, it's okay to to to dismiss

544
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:55,275
it.

545
00:19:56,315 --> 00:19:58,234
But maybe that's maybe that's one of the

546
00:19:58,234 --> 00:19:59,994
reason the culture said, like, yeah. That's that's

547
00:19:59,994 --> 00:20:03,115
fine. Maybe maybe maybe it's because, quantum physicists

548
00:20:03,115 --> 00:20:05,674
don't have muscles, and so they can it's

549
00:20:05,674 --> 00:20:06,894
okay to beat them out.

550
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,400
When you're selecting the the artist, you're a

551
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:11,700
different artist each year.

552
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,240
More or less. Yeah. We've we've been trying

553
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:15,119
to to do,

554
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,519
we've been trying to keep the residency a

555
00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:20,160
year long because it works pretty well. We

556
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,184
match the academic year from September to June,

557
00:20:23,404 --> 00:20:25,184
and then it's very important

558
00:20:25,565 --> 00:20:28,065
for for me to leave the artist

559
00:20:29,005 --> 00:20:31,984
enough time to build, like, confidence,

560
00:20:32,605 --> 00:20:33,105
relationship,

561
00:20:33,404 --> 00:20:35,130
and learn about all of these things.

562
00:20:35,609 --> 00:20:36,349
So usually,

563
00:20:36,650 --> 00:20:38,029
when I select an artist,

564
00:20:38,490 --> 00:20:40,269
we start by doing a talk.

565
00:20:40,650 --> 00:20:42,250
So we just invite them for a talk

566
00:20:42,250 --> 00:20:43,470
to talk about their practice.

567
00:20:43,849 --> 00:20:46,170
And then I look at the people in

568
00:20:46,170 --> 00:20:48,410
the audience, our scientists, and see if it

569
00:20:48,410 --> 00:20:50,904
clicks or not. And it's not a judgment

570
00:20:50,904 --> 00:20:52,985
of the artwork. But even if we have

571
00:20:52,985 --> 00:20:55,625
an amazing artist and if nobody's interested in

572
00:20:55,625 --> 00:20:58,424
working with them, it's like the collaborating aspect

573
00:20:58,424 --> 00:21:00,585
of the residency is not gonna work. So

574
00:21:00,585 --> 00:21:03,065
it's a very difficult process of, like, finding

575
00:21:03,065 --> 00:21:04,750
somebody who's talented,

576
00:21:05,049 --> 00:21:07,769
who's willing to learn about it. And then

577
00:21:07,769 --> 00:21:10,730
one criteria that's very important is that the

578
00:21:10,730 --> 00:21:13,130
audits the artist needs to be able to

579
00:21:13,130 --> 00:21:15,130
talk about their work. And I know a

580
00:21:15,130 --> 00:21:17,044
lot of a lot of artists are more

581
00:21:17,044 --> 00:21:19,045
on the I would like to let the

582
00:21:19,045 --> 00:21:20,345
art work for itself

583
00:21:21,045 --> 00:21:24,164
and, which absolutely fair, but, like, I'm on

584
00:21:24,164 --> 00:21:26,164
the science outreach camp. We need to, like,

585
00:21:26,164 --> 00:21:27,765
be able to talk about it. And so

586
00:21:27,765 --> 00:21:30,325
that's also one key criteria for the artist,

587
00:21:31,059 --> 00:21:33,799
to talk about the artwork, what it's linked.

588
00:21:34,420 --> 00:21:35,240
And so,

589
00:21:36,259 --> 00:21:38,599
usually, the residency goes as

590
00:21:38,980 --> 00:21:41,640
we left the first semester in the fall

591
00:21:42,019 --> 00:21:42,519
is

592
00:21:42,980 --> 00:21:43,960
fun exploratory

593
00:21:44,654 --> 00:21:47,215
things. So I have a bunch of idea

594
00:21:47,215 --> 00:21:49,215
based on the previous talk they gave about,

595
00:21:49,215 --> 00:21:52,575
like, what their preferred medium is, what work

596
00:21:52,575 --> 00:21:53,634
they're doing will

597
00:21:54,414 --> 00:21:55,934
the kind of work they're doing, what will

598
00:21:55,934 --> 00:21:58,195
match different topic or different, like,

599
00:21:59,220 --> 00:22:01,619
materials. Like, if if somebody is doing installation

600
00:22:01,619 --> 00:22:04,420
with metal, I will direct them closer to,

601
00:22:04,420 --> 00:22:06,299
like, the super community folks where they use

602
00:22:06,299 --> 00:22:08,920
a lot of copper, gold, like, wires everywhere.

603
00:22:09,460 --> 00:22:11,085
But if people are more interested in, like,

604
00:22:11,164 --> 00:22:13,404
software, we we I move them towards more

605
00:22:13,404 --> 00:22:15,345
of the quantum error correction algorithm

606
00:22:15,884 --> 00:22:18,125
teams and so trying to match them. But

607
00:22:18,125 --> 00:22:19,825
I'm also trying to be very careful

608
00:22:20,204 --> 00:22:24,044
on not necessarily, like, blocking them too much.

609
00:22:24,044 --> 00:22:25,724
We do a lot of, like, random meetings

610
00:22:25,724 --> 00:22:28,349
with different people because sometimes you get a

611
00:22:28,349 --> 00:22:28,829
spark.

612
00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:31,730
One, for example, Spencer Topol,

613
00:22:32,109 --> 00:22:33,409
who's a sound artist,

614
00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:35,549
came in and give a talk about his

615
00:22:35,549 --> 00:22:36,049
practice.

616
00:22:36,429 --> 00:22:38,589
And then two grad students came over, and

617
00:22:38,589 --> 00:22:40,125
I was like, you were talking about all

618
00:22:40,125 --> 00:22:42,705
of this sound thing. We're using frequency period.

619
00:22:42,845 --> 00:22:45,884
We're using the same language for machine for

620
00:22:45,884 --> 00:22:47,984
machine for for quantum signals.

621
00:22:48,445 --> 00:22:50,525
And then they just started for, like, five

622
00:22:50,525 --> 00:22:52,684
minutes and then realized they were all three

623
00:22:52,684 --> 00:22:54,419
in a band, and then we made a

624
00:22:54,419 --> 00:22:56,679
quantum electronic noise music album

625
00:22:56,980 --> 00:22:59,700
together. And so that's something that I could

626
00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:01,700
have never come up, like, come up with.

627
00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:03,299
And so I think leaving a little bit

628
00:23:03,299 --> 00:23:05,779
of flexibility in the residency helps a lot.

629
00:23:05,779 --> 00:23:08,355
So I'm trying to guide the artist towards

630
00:23:08,355 --> 00:23:10,454
what I think would be the most successful

631
00:23:10,674 --> 00:23:11,174
collaboration,

632
00:23:11,634 --> 00:23:12,914
but leaving a lot of room in the

633
00:23:12,914 --> 00:23:15,414
first six months. And then after that,

634
00:23:15,954 --> 00:23:18,194
we work on a key concept and try

635
00:23:18,194 --> 00:23:21,149
to build something. So I I keep we

636
00:23:21,149 --> 00:23:22,369
we call it the artwork

637
00:23:22,750 --> 00:23:25,470
in a very wide sense because we never

638
00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:26,769
know what is gonna come.

639
00:23:27,389 --> 00:23:29,389
And so in the past, we've done a

640
00:23:29,389 --> 00:23:31,889
light show, museum installation, drawings,

641
00:23:34,335 --> 00:23:34,835
albums,

642
00:23:35,615 --> 00:23:36,434
an app.

643
00:23:37,535 --> 00:23:39,855
We've done theater while we produced the play,

644
00:23:40,095 --> 00:23:43,295
last, last May. And so there's plenty of

645
00:23:43,295 --> 00:23:46,035
things to do. And then we try to,

646
00:23:46,349 --> 00:23:48,349
work with the International Festival of Arts and

647
00:23:48,349 --> 00:23:50,130
Ideas. It's a it's a big festival

648
00:23:50,670 --> 00:23:53,490
that, celebrated its thirtieth anniversary,

649
00:23:54,109 --> 00:23:55,009
last June.

650
00:23:55,549 --> 00:23:58,029
And so it's perfectly timed. It's in June

651
00:23:58,029 --> 00:23:59,789
at the end of of the residency, and

652
00:23:59,789 --> 00:24:01,230
so we try to do something like that.

653
00:24:01,230 --> 00:24:01,875
Think about

654
00:24:02,194 --> 00:24:04,035
think about this festival a little bit like

655
00:24:04,035 --> 00:24:05,654
the Fringe in in Ambarra,

656
00:24:06,035 --> 00:24:07,634
like, sort of this idea. And so a

657
00:24:07,634 --> 00:24:09,075
lot of artists come in town for two

658
00:24:09,075 --> 00:24:10,694
weeks. It's great fun.

659
00:24:10,994 --> 00:24:13,154
And, we we've been working with them, like,

660
00:24:13,234 --> 00:24:15,099
I think this is our eighth time in

661
00:24:15,099 --> 00:24:17,259
a row working with them, and they've been

662
00:24:17,259 --> 00:24:19,819
an incredible partners. And that's also an excuse

663
00:24:19,819 --> 00:24:21,740
of forcing us to go outside of the

664
00:24:21,740 --> 00:24:24,779
lab, outside of the university settings, and be

665
00:24:24,779 --> 00:24:26,460
on the on the on the New Heaven

666
00:24:26,460 --> 00:24:28,460
Green, which is this big plaza where we're

667
00:24:28,460 --> 00:24:30,159
like, here we go. We have some quantum

668
00:24:30,220 --> 00:24:32,134
things happening on the green.

669
00:24:32,515 --> 00:24:34,914
With Serena, we had some installation on the

670
00:24:34,914 --> 00:24:37,795
green at one of the, Yale libraries and

671
00:24:37,795 --> 00:24:39,875
at our institutes to, like, force people to

672
00:24:39,875 --> 00:24:41,735
walk around and interact with us.

673
00:24:42,195 --> 00:24:44,434
And then we also had, Stuart Smith that

674
00:24:44,434 --> 00:24:47,160
did, like, a big quantum error correction light

675
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,160
installation on the green. And so we we're

676
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,000
really trying to to bring the people from

677
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,059
the New Haven community,

678
00:24:52,839 --> 00:24:54,059
with us on this journey.

679
00:24:56,599 --> 00:24:59,160
Of course, I wanted to know more about

680
00:24:59,160 --> 00:24:59,900
that album.

681
00:25:06,625 --> 00:25:09,424
Spencer Topol was very interested in, like, hearing

682
00:25:09,424 --> 00:25:11,904
what the Dada sounded like. So, basically, we

683
00:25:11,904 --> 00:25:13,585
did this live show, and the album is

684
00:25:13,585 --> 00:25:14,085
recording

685
00:25:14,545 --> 00:25:17,450
of the, of the the sets, with, like,

686
00:25:17,450 --> 00:25:18,430
minimum editing.

687
00:25:19,049 --> 00:25:21,630
And so they basically sent a a query

688
00:25:21,690 --> 00:25:22,590
to the labs,

689
00:25:24,009 --> 00:25:25,470
studied the quantum computers,

690
00:25:26,090 --> 00:25:29,210
run a series of of tests. And then

691
00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:31,695
from the data, it was slowing down to

692
00:25:31,695 --> 00:25:34,414
be audible because the frequency are in microwave,

693
00:25:34,414 --> 00:25:36,654
like megahertz. And so we couldn't really hear

694
00:25:36,654 --> 00:25:38,734
them, and so it would slow down to

695
00:25:38,734 --> 00:25:41,214
be audible. And then we started with the

696
00:25:41,214 --> 00:25:44,035
composition or, like, hearing the actual data noise

697
00:25:44,414 --> 00:25:46,460
for the first, like, ten ten minute ish.

698
00:25:46,460 --> 00:25:49,340
And then as we start slowly in, there's

699
00:25:49,340 --> 00:25:51,980
more of a composition layering. Like, the the

700
00:25:51,980 --> 00:25:52,720
grad students,

701
00:25:53,099 --> 00:25:55,019
and then and the and Spencer Topo were

702
00:25:55,019 --> 00:25:57,519
working with, like, three laptops from different datasets

703
00:25:58,035 --> 00:26:00,195
and building in layers. And so it becomes

704
00:26:00,195 --> 00:26:02,115
more and more, like, tonal and more and

705
00:26:02,115 --> 00:26:03,654
more like like a composition,

706
00:26:04,515 --> 00:26:06,934
as as the the track comes in.

707
00:26:34,085 --> 00:26:36,404
This this program is also a good excuse

708
00:26:36,404 --> 00:26:37,304
for me to,

709
00:26:38,004 --> 00:26:40,210
like, play on my, like, what if side

710
00:26:40,210 --> 00:26:42,230
of things because I have a theater background.

711
00:26:42,529 --> 00:26:44,690
I did theater for twelve years before, like,

712
00:26:44,690 --> 00:26:46,850
turning into science. And I think maybe this

713
00:26:46,850 --> 00:26:49,269
is where the sensibility for art came from.

714
00:26:49,570 --> 00:26:49,970
And,

715
00:26:50,769 --> 00:26:52,610
I don't think I'm talented enough as an

716
00:26:52,610 --> 00:26:54,095
artist to make a living out of it,

717
00:26:54,095 --> 00:26:55,775
but I think I'm talented enough as a

718
00:26:55,775 --> 00:26:58,335
producer to help the same way that I'm

719
00:26:58,335 --> 00:26:59,715
helping research scientists,

720
00:27:00,494 --> 00:27:03,075
like, thrive in the environment at the institutes.

721
00:27:03,375 --> 00:27:05,443
I think I'm I'm really good at helping

722
00:27:05,443 --> 00:27:06,049
the artists, like,

723
00:27:06,909 --> 00:27:08,450
thrive and create beautiful

724
00:27:08,829 --> 00:27:09,730
piece of work,

725
00:27:10,589 --> 00:27:13,470
from that experience in the residency. I wonder

726
00:27:13,470 --> 00:27:13,970
whether

727
00:27:14,589 --> 00:27:16,909
it goes the other way because clearly the

728
00:27:16,909 --> 00:27:19,149
the the artists are inspired by the science

729
00:27:19,149 --> 00:27:20,929
to create something. But are the scientists

730
00:27:21,894 --> 00:27:24,535
inspired by the art as well? Yes. I

731
00:27:24,535 --> 00:27:26,375
think this is why this program has been

732
00:27:26,375 --> 00:27:28,634
lasting for so long with that interruption

733
00:27:29,095 --> 00:27:29,835
is because

734
00:27:30,535 --> 00:27:32,315
scientists got something out of it.

735
00:27:33,095 --> 00:27:34,535
There was, it was a bit of a

736
00:27:34,535 --> 00:27:37,190
question at the start in 2017.

737
00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:38,529
People were like, why do we need an

738
00:27:38,529 --> 00:27:40,690
artist? Like, nature is beautiful on its own.

739
00:27:40,690 --> 00:27:42,849
Look at my plot. It's beautiful. Like, it's

740
00:27:42,849 --> 00:27:45,169
so weird that this data coming from nowhere

741
00:27:45,169 --> 00:27:47,409
does this, like, beautiful curve or, like, these

742
00:27:47,409 --> 00:27:48,470
these beautiful patterns.

743
00:27:48,835 --> 00:27:50,835
And I was like, yes. But we could

744
00:27:50,835 --> 00:27:52,295
sublimate and, like,

745
00:27:52,595 --> 00:27:53,894
your plot is beautiful,

746
00:27:54,195 --> 00:27:56,755
but having an artist in helps you, like,

747
00:27:56,755 --> 00:27:57,255
elevates

748
00:27:57,715 --> 00:28:00,674
this this data into, like, a really, like,

749
00:28:00,674 --> 00:28:01,174
breathtaking

750
00:28:02,275 --> 00:28:02,775
visuals,

751
00:28:03,309 --> 00:28:05,410
and then it inspire you. Like,

752
00:28:05,789 --> 00:28:08,509
one element that was, like, really the the

753
00:28:08,509 --> 00:28:10,670
ground zero of this this kind of project

754
00:28:10,670 --> 00:28:11,250
was, like,

755
00:28:11,549 --> 00:28:13,150
if we do some artwork, we could have

756
00:28:13,150 --> 00:28:15,309
some cool visual on the wall. So when

757
00:28:15,309 --> 00:28:17,575
you come work in the institutes, you have

758
00:28:17,575 --> 00:28:19,654
this, like, beautiful mural, you have this beautiful

759
00:28:19,654 --> 00:28:22,215
portrait of quantum computers, you have this beautiful

760
00:28:22,215 --> 00:28:22,715
installation.

761
00:28:23,174 --> 00:28:26,055
It just makes the space welcoming and fun

762
00:28:26,055 --> 00:28:28,295
to live in. And then it started building

763
00:28:28,295 --> 00:28:29,894
in when we had the installation. Some of

764
00:28:29,894 --> 00:28:31,440
the researcher came in and said like,

765
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,159
oh, I've never thought about this diagram this

766
00:28:34,159 --> 00:28:35,700
way before. Like, I think

767
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,519
a lot of the work we've been doing

768
00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:38,819
is blowing up

769
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,279
something that's so small at the human scale

770
00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:43,839
so you can experience it. So the researcher,

771
00:28:43,839 --> 00:28:46,099
the students come in, enter these spaces,

772
00:28:46,744 --> 00:28:49,884
and get to experience quantum error correction algorithm

773
00:28:50,424 --> 00:28:52,825
as their body comes in and, like, trip

774
00:28:52,825 --> 00:28:53,965
sensors, proximity

775
00:28:54,424 --> 00:28:54,924
sensor.

776
00:28:55,465 --> 00:28:57,144
They can come in and see the webcam

777
00:28:57,144 --> 00:28:59,144
tracking them and, like, making the diagram in

778
00:28:59,144 --> 00:29:01,250
real time. And I think it really

779
00:29:01,950 --> 00:29:02,769
offer them

780
00:29:03,070 --> 00:29:05,230
a way of, like, entering the machine and

781
00:29:05,230 --> 00:29:07,170
have a better understanding of this thing.

782
00:29:07,789 --> 00:29:10,750
The interesting about the the album, for Spencer

783
00:29:10,750 --> 00:29:13,470
Turpel Quantum Sound is that we took data

784
00:29:13,869 --> 00:29:16,404
science data from our labs, turn into a

785
00:29:16,404 --> 00:29:18,825
piece of art with the album Quantum Sounds.

786
00:29:19,125 --> 00:29:20,325
And then, the,

787
00:29:20,884 --> 00:29:21,625
the editor,

788
00:29:22,005 --> 00:29:24,585
Eduardo Miranda came in and said, like, oh,

789
00:29:24,805 --> 00:29:26,964
fascinating word. Would you be interested in writing

790
00:29:26,964 --> 00:29:29,460
a science article about how you turn this

791
00:29:29,460 --> 00:29:32,039
into, like, what were your sonification process

792
00:29:32,340 --> 00:29:34,660
and stuff like that? And so, basically, the

793
00:29:34,820 --> 00:29:37,220
we went from science to art to back

794
00:29:37,220 --> 00:29:39,299
to science, because we had, like, a peer

795
00:29:39,299 --> 00:29:41,525
review chapter, and so we went full circle.

796
00:29:41,525 --> 00:29:43,204
And now people are using this kind of

797
00:29:43,204 --> 00:29:45,144
technique to do that with their own data.

798
00:29:45,204 --> 00:29:47,444
So I think it does help, and and

799
00:29:47,444 --> 00:29:48,345
I think the reason

800
00:29:48,644 --> 00:29:50,644
why this program is running for so long

801
00:29:50,644 --> 00:29:52,184
without interruption is because

802
00:29:52,484 --> 00:29:54,779
everybody gained something out of it. The public

803
00:29:54,779 --> 00:29:57,580
is gaining interest in the science. The the

804
00:29:57,580 --> 00:29:58,080
young,

805
00:29:58,940 --> 00:30:01,900
students, first year students are gaining interest and

806
00:30:01,900 --> 00:30:04,940
maybe are joining courses in quantum science. The

807
00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:08,214
the artist gain, like, breadth of of knowledge

808
00:30:08,214 --> 00:30:11,275
and, like, depth into the artwork. The scientists

809
00:30:11,494 --> 00:30:13,194
are gaining a lot of, like,

810
00:30:14,535 --> 00:30:16,694
better understanding of what they're doing. Like, they're

811
00:30:16,694 --> 00:30:18,775
looking at their data another way. And so

812
00:30:18,775 --> 00:30:20,694
I think it's it's a win across the

813
00:30:20,694 --> 00:30:23,430
board for everyone. Are you looking around the

814
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:25,829
world going, I want that person next. I

815
00:30:25,829 --> 00:30:28,069
want that artist to come here. I am

816
00:30:28,069 --> 00:30:29,210
incredibly lucky.

817
00:30:29,670 --> 00:30:32,150
The first time around, it was incredibly difficult

818
00:30:32,150 --> 00:30:34,605
to find an artist willing to take that

819
00:30:34,684 --> 00:30:37,804
that challenge. I remember going around New Haven,

820
00:30:37,804 --> 00:30:40,464
which has a very thriving artistic scene.

821
00:30:41,484 --> 00:30:44,444
They had, these, in October, they do, an

822
00:30:44,444 --> 00:30:46,924
art open studio where every artist in New

823
00:30:46,924 --> 00:30:48,924
Haven opened the doors and so people can

824
00:30:48,924 --> 00:30:50,859
come in. And I went around with this

825
00:30:50,859 --> 00:30:52,859
call for artists. I was like, hey. We

826
00:30:52,859 --> 00:30:54,619
want to do this. Like, we have a

827
00:30:54,619 --> 00:30:56,960
white wall in the institutes at YEQI.

828
00:30:57,500 --> 00:30:59,359
We just would like some arts, like,

829
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:02,299
inspired arts. And and then that's when we,

830
00:31:02,619 --> 00:31:04,845
that's when I met Martha Lewis, who has

831
00:31:04,845 --> 00:31:07,424
been working on, like, history of science,

832
00:31:08,045 --> 00:31:10,924
and then human human knowledge and and and

833
00:31:10,924 --> 00:31:12,785
all of these things. And so

834
00:31:13,244 --> 00:31:15,085
we we worked together, and she had a

835
00:31:15,085 --> 00:31:16,845
lot of trust in me. I had a

836
00:31:16,845 --> 00:31:18,924
lot of trust in her. It was basically

837
00:31:18,924 --> 00:31:19,769
like, okay.

838
00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:22,570
We jumped together off the cliff. Let's see

839
00:31:22,570 --> 00:31:23,230
what happens.

840
00:31:23,930 --> 00:31:27,230
And then since we, I get an overwhelming

841
00:31:27,529 --> 00:31:29,950
like, my inbox is full of of people

842
00:31:30,089 --> 00:31:32,009
reaching out and say, hey. I want to

843
00:31:32,009 --> 00:31:34,095
be part of this. And so

844
00:31:34,714 --> 00:31:37,214
the the challenge has changed from,

845
00:31:38,474 --> 00:31:40,794
how can I find someone to, like, hack

846
00:31:40,954 --> 00:31:42,794
how can I have enough hours in the

847
00:31:42,794 --> 00:31:44,634
day to bring all of these people in?

848
00:31:44,634 --> 00:31:48,259
Because people reaching out are doing, like, incredible

849
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,380
work. But the limiting factor is, like, time,

850
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:53,120
money, and, like, it's,

851
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:54,100
unfortunately,

852
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,640
the arts and science part is just a

853
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,559
small section of my job. I talk a

854
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:01,375
lot more about it, but, it it must

855
00:32:01,375 --> 00:32:03,695
be, like, maybe 10% of my job.

856
00:32:04,335 --> 00:32:06,595
And so it's all of the actual

857
00:32:07,134 --> 00:32:09,455
managing director job takes a big, big chunk

858
00:32:09,455 --> 00:32:11,535
of it. But if I could, I would

859
00:32:11,535 --> 00:32:12,355
be delighted

860
00:32:12,654 --> 00:32:14,174
to have that full time. That would be

861
00:32:14,174 --> 00:32:16,700
great. And so if you have yeah. Yeah.

862
00:32:17,179 --> 00:32:19,019
If somebody's listening to the podcast and say,

863
00:32:19,019 --> 00:32:20,539
like, we would like to hire you to

864
00:32:20,539 --> 00:32:22,159
do that full time, please

865
00:32:22,460 --> 00:32:23,279
let me know.

866
00:32:24,539 --> 00:32:26,299
That sort of probably answers the question which

867
00:32:26,299 --> 00:32:27,740
was buzzing in my head at that moment,

868
00:32:27,740 --> 00:32:30,005
which is, you know, what gives you the

869
00:32:30,005 --> 00:32:32,244
most pleasure in your role? Is it is

870
00:32:32,244 --> 00:32:33,865
it this stuff? Is it when you've,

871
00:32:34,404 --> 00:32:34,984
you know,

872
00:32:36,005 --> 00:32:38,005
without being too selfish about it, you've had

873
00:32:38,005 --> 00:32:40,164
a hand in some beautiful artwork being created

874
00:32:40,164 --> 00:32:42,325
that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for what

875
00:32:42,325 --> 00:32:44,480
you're doing in that in that role? Or

876
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,119
is it if some breakthrough happens in the

877
00:32:47,119 --> 00:32:48,259
science side of

878
00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:52,080
things? I would say both. The the main

879
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,259
difference is that in the breakthroughs,

880
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,654
I don't have any hands on it. I

881
00:32:56,654 --> 00:32:59,075
I, like, I only have this, like, helping

882
00:32:59,375 --> 00:33:01,695
on, like, making your life easier as a

883
00:33:01,695 --> 00:33:03,615
scientist, cleaning all of the red tape for

884
00:33:03,615 --> 00:33:05,775
you, making sure that all your grants and

885
00:33:05,775 --> 00:33:07,695
all your financings are done, and then you

886
00:33:07,695 --> 00:33:09,715
can just do science in peace,

887
00:33:10,319 --> 00:33:11,460
which these days

888
00:33:11,759 --> 00:33:13,059
quite the quite the challenge,

889
00:33:13,359 --> 00:33:14,980
on our on our neck of the woods.

890
00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:18,960
But with the with the odds, I, like,

891
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,059
I think I'm finding again this, like,

892
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,865
do it, like, almost this bench science aspect

893
00:33:23,865 --> 00:33:25,305
of it. I'm doing it, like, for the

894
00:33:25,305 --> 00:33:26,525
installation with Serena.

895
00:33:27,065 --> 00:33:29,144
She has these beautiful pieces of paper with

896
00:33:29,144 --> 00:33:31,305
metal in it engraved with the patterns that

897
00:33:31,305 --> 00:33:32,765
the scientists are doing.

898
00:33:33,144 --> 00:33:34,664
And so we had to, like, thread all

899
00:33:34,664 --> 00:33:36,424
of this with, like, an incredible amount of,

900
00:33:36,424 --> 00:33:40,100
like, very thin fishing lines and metal wires

901
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,440
fuse, like, extremely delicate paper hanging from the

902
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,240
ceiling, it's it's maddening. And she might tell

903
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,759
you that it's a lot of work doing

904
00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:49,920
this thing. But then the the outcome is

905
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,304
really brilliant. And then, like, I'm proud of

906
00:33:52,304 --> 00:33:55,184
this because I actually put some, like, sweat

907
00:33:55,184 --> 00:33:56,884
and tears in in these things.

908
00:33:57,505 --> 00:33:59,444
The thing that's interesting is that

909
00:33:59,744 --> 00:34:00,244
often,

910
00:34:00,704 --> 00:34:03,825
the excitement about the the scientific breakthrough at

911
00:34:03,825 --> 00:34:05,284
the, at the institutes

912
00:34:06,179 --> 00:34:07,319
is something that

913
00:34:07,619 --> 00:34:09,000
is linked to the artwork.

914
00:34:09,539 --> 00:34:12,359
I remember that in 2022

915
00:34:12,739 --> 00:34:14,260
oh, 2022,

916
00:34:14,260 --> 00:34:16,659
yeah, there was a breakthrough in quorum error

917
00:34:16,659 --> 00:34:18,659
correction. We could do it in real time.

918
00:34:18,659 --> 00:34:20,260
So it was like a big deal for

919
00:34:20,260 --> 00:34:20,760
scientists.

920
00:34:21,105 --> 00:34:23,425
And the artist in residence, at the time,

921
00:34:23,425 --> 00:34:25,744
Stuart Smith, was like, this is what I

922
00:34:25,744 --> 00:34:27,184
want to do. This is the cool thing.

923
00:34:27,184 --> 00:34:29,264
This is the hot new trend. And so

924
00:34:29,264 --> 00:34:30,244
we use the,

925
00:34:30,784 --> 00:34:33,684
real time quaternary correction algorithm in our installation.

926
00:34:34,304 --> 00:34:35,744
And so, like, it's it was linked to

927
00:34:35,744 --> 00:34:38,480
this. And with Serena's company in his course,

928
00:34:38,860 --> 00:34:41,820
the there was this thing on, on Kirk

929
00:34:41,820 --> 00:34:44,380
Katz that was, like, the theory was almost

930
00:34:44,380 --> 00:34:46,699
there. A grad student was publishing results. So

931
00:34:46,699 --> 00:34:49,099
we had a breakthrough in this, like, quantum

932
00:34:49,099 --> 00:34:49,599
memory,

933
00:34:49,944 --> 00:34:51,864
and that's the thing that we worked on.

934
00:34:51,864 --> 00:34:52,764
And so I think

935
00:34:53,065 --> 00:34:55,464
the we can feel in the artwork the

936
00:34:55,464 --> 00:34:57,704
excitement of the breakthrough. So we we try

937
00:34:57,704 --> 00:34:58,525
to match,

938
00:34:59,625 --> 00:35:01,784
not because we're chasing clouds, but because there's

939
00:35:01,784 --> 00:35:04,105
really a buzzing around the breakthrough. People are

940
00:35:04,105 --> 00:35:06,329
really exciting. People are giving talks,

941
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:09,190
about it in group meetings, in, like, seminars.

942
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:11,109
And so I think everybody's really excited about

943
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:13,109
the breakthrough, about, like, how did we how

944
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:15,829
was that work? And by being in our

945
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:16,329
institutes,

946
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:19,285
the artists, like, suck in the energy, and

947
00:35:19,285 --> 00:35:21,765
I think that's what translates into it. So

948
00:35:21,765 --> 00:35:23,605
you cannot by looking at the art, you

949
00:35:23,605 --> 00:35:25,605
cannot tell directly, like, oh, this is this

950
00:35:25,605 --> 00:35:27,844
breakthrough. This is this breakthrough. We're like, a

951
00:35:27,844 --> 00:35:29,940
lot of the key concept from these things,

952
00:35:30,900 --> 00:35:32,920
like, lie underneath the artworks.

953
00:35:33,219 --> 00:35:36,500
Florian mentioned the artist whose work is involved

954
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:37,719
in this year's collaboration

955
00:35:38,179 --> 00:35:40,039
several times during our conversation,

956
00:35:40,420 --> 00:35:42,420
so it seemed only right for me to

957
00:35:42,420 --> 00:35:44,440
catch up with Serena Scappanini.

958
00:35:45,059 --> 00:35:45,800
So my,

959
00:35:46,554 --> 00:35:48,414
recent focus about memory

960
00:35:48,795 --> 00:35:49,934
that was already,

961
00:35:50,954 --> 00:35:52,894
strongly related to my work,

962
00:35:53,835 --> 00:35:56,655
after more than twelve years of work with

963
00:35:56,954 --> 00:35:57,454
professor

964
00:35:57,994 --> 00:35:58,974
Michael Higley,

965
00:35:59,619 --> 00:36:01,960
professor of neuroscience at Yale,

966
00:36:02,739 --> 00:36:05,480
brought my attention especially to the

967
00:36:06,019 --> 00:36:07,000
quantum memory.

968
00:36:07,780 --> 00:36:08,179
And,

969
00:36:08,659 --> 00:36:10,920
this is one of the focus that we

970
00:36:11,394 --> 00:36:12,215
we use

971
00:36:12,595 --> 00:36:14,135
to, you know, go further,

972
00:36:14,675 --> 00:36:16,295
trying to develop together

973
00:36:16,595 --> 00:36:17,335
a new

974
00:36:18,035 --> 00:36:18,535
language.

975
00:36:19,315 --> 00:36:21,175
The first vision that I

976
00:36:21,795 --> 00:36:23,235
that I had, been,

977
00:36:24,690 --> 00:36:26,789
lucky enough to develop with the researchers,

978
00:36:29,489 --> 00:36:31,109
was to deepen

979
00:36:31,969 --> 00:36:32,789
the way,

980
00:36:33,969 --> 00:36:34,469
quantum

981
00:36:35,489 --> 00:36:36,949
information is encoded

982
00:36:40,154 --> 00:36:42,014
in state of light

983
00:36:42,315 --> 00:36:44,255
or in the state of some atoms.

984
00:36:45,194 --> 00:36:45,694
So

985
00:36:46,074 --> 00:36:48,474
what I wanted to to see and to

986
00:36:48,474 --> 00:36:50,654
try to see working with the researchers,

987
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:52,460
was,

988
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:53,980
the

989
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:55,579
natural

990
00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:58,460
dissolution of this quantum memory

991
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:00,219
within

992
00:37:00,599 --> 00:37:01,099
the

993
00:37:01,639 --> 00:37:03,739
states of light. And, peculiarly,

994
00:37:05,515 --> 00:37:07,295
they developed for me a software

995
00:37:07,675 --> 00:37:10,795
that allows me to see the pure state

996
00:37:10,795 --> 00:37:11,534
of light

997
00:37:12,074 --> 00:37:13,934
at the moment of the,

998
00:37:15,034 --> 00:37:15,534
encoding

999
00:37:15,994 --> 00:37:16,494
information

1000
00:37:16,954 --> 00:37:18,255
at a quantum level.

1001
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:20,780
So starting from this,

1002
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,539
it was very fascinating

1003
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,140
for many reason.

1004
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,059
First of all, visually,

1005
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,019
because the patterns of the superpositions

1006
00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:31,980
of the state of the light

1007
00:37:32,775 --> 00:37:34,554
are already very meaningful,

1008
00:37:35,014 --> 00:37:35,755
and their,

1009
00:37:36,694 --> 00:37:37,194
incredible,

1010
00:37:37,894 --> 00:37:39,194
and strong symmetry,

1011
00:37:40,375 --> 00:37:40,875
was

1012
00:37:41,255 --> 00:37:42,375
at the first level,

1013
00:37:42,775 --> 00:37:45,674
inspiring to make some drawings and to

1014
00:37:46,190 --> 00:37:48,130
and to stay on these,

1015
00:37:48,990 --> 00:37:49,490
shapes

1016
00:37:50,750 --> 00:37:52,050
to try to suggest,

1017
00:37:52,430 --> 00:37:54,750
and in this case, the work was very

1018
00:37:54,750 --> 00:37:56,369
much provoked by the

1019
00:37:56,750 --> 00:37:57,730
by the collaboration.

1020
00:37:58,944 --> 00:37:59,444
The

1021
00:38:00,224 --> 00:38:02,324
encoding of the quantum information

1022
00:38:03,105 --> 00:38:04,644
and its natural dissolution.

1023
00:38:05,184 --> 00:38:07,105
There is also, as you know, a very

1024
00:38:07,105 --> 00:38:09,444
strong and meaningful aspect that,

1025
00:38:10,385 --> 00:38:11,284
at Yale,

1026
00:38:13,089 --> 00:38:14,469
and not only at Yale,

1027
00:38:15,409 --> 00:38:18,389
they are focusing about, like, the duration

1028
00:38:18,690 --> 00:38:20,469
of the memory and

1029
00:38:21,089 --> 00:38:21,589
and

1030
00:38:22,530 --> 00:38:26,070
and to try to get the memory longer,

1031
00:38:26,934 --> 00:38:29,255
of course, for the building of the quantum

1032
00:38:29,255 --> 00:38:31,835
computer, but also for the pure research.

1033
00:38:32,614 --> 00:38:33,434
So the

1034
00:38:34,934 --> 00:38:36,315
the effect of the

1035
00:38:36,775 --> 00:38:37,835
natural dissolution

1036
00:38:38,694 --> 00:38:39,434
and visually

1037
00:38:39,815 --> 00:38:40,315
the

1038
00:38:41,094 --> 00:38:41,835
the correspondence

1039
00:38:42,269 --> 00:38:44,289
to the Kerr effect, so the,

1040
00:38:44,989 --> 00:38:48,110
natural vortex that you can see within the

1041
00:38:48,110 --> 00:38:50,369
states of the light that are,

1042
00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:53,010
getting into this Kerr effect.

1043
00:38:54,190 --> 00:38:56,210
And the effect of the environment

1044
00:38:59,114 --> 00:38:59,614
was

1045
00:39:00,074 --> 00:39:03,375
one of the point that we focus about.

1046
00:39:04,315 --> 00:39:05,295
Then from that,

1047
00:39:08,074 --> 00:39:09,614
we build also some

1048
00:39:10,590 --> 00:39:12,289
three d models in the space,

1049
00:39:13,230 --> 00:39:14,110
and it was,

1050
00:39:14,910 --> 00:39:16,050
really fantastic

1051
00:39:16,349 --> 00:39:17,410
to work with

1052
00:39:17,789 --> 00:39:18,289
researchers

1053
00:39:18,829 --> 00:39:19,890
close to me

1054
00:39:21,470 --> 00:39:22,930
to develop these models

1055
00:39:23,789 --> 00:39:24,289
playing

1056
00:39:24,614 --> 00:39:26,795
in the double way with the superposition

1057
00:39:27,335 --> 00:39:28,795
of the particles, so

1058
00:39:29,175 --> 00:39:30,155
with the impossible

1059
00:39:30,454 --> 00:39:31,514
vision of,

1060
00:39:32,454 --> 00:39:35,034
the different position in the space that

1061
00:39:35,414 --> 00:39:36,554
at the same time,

1062
00:39:36,934 --> 00:39:37,914
you know, are

1063
00:39:40,869 --> 00:39:42,730
are inhabit by the particles,

1064
00:39:43,989 --> 00:39:46,570
and on the other side, by their natural,

1065
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:47,530
dissolution

1066
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:49,930
and the way the state of light

1067
00:39:50,550 --> 00:39:52,890
is losing the quantum information.

1068
00:39:55,324 --> 00:39:56,625
But in quantum mechanics,

1069
00:39:56,925 --> 00:39:59,744
the way that happens is also that the

1070
00:39:59,885 --> 00:40:00,385
environment

1071
00:40:00,684 --> 00:40:02,065
has learned the information.

1072
00:40:02,444 --> 00:40:02,944
So

1073
00:40:03,405 --> 00:40:03,905
if

1074
00:40:04,684 --> 00:40:06,784
the memory has been lost,

1075
00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:10,349
the idea that,

1076
00:40:10,989 --> 00:40:12,929
it is still somewhere in the universe

1077
00:40:13,389 --> 00:40:14,210
was very

1078
00:40:14,510 --> 00:40:15,010
inspiring.

1079
00:40:15,789 --> 00:40:19,150
And this is also translating my language that

1080
00:40:19,150 --> 00:40:19,969
is always

1081
00:40:20,989 --> 00:40:21,809
very much,

1082
00:40:22,989 --> 00:40:23,489
focus

1083
00:40:24,414 --> 00:40:27,474
on the different densities and the different dimensions

1084
00:40:27,775 --> 00:40:28,594
of the materials,

1085
00:40:30,335 --> 00:40:33,875
moving and escaping from one dimension to another,

1086
00:40:35,054 --> 00:40:37,394
both physically and conceptually.

1087
00:40:39,539 --> 00:40:41,559
So this relationship with the environment

1088
00:40:42,660 --> 00:40:43,960
has been very much,

1089
00:40:46,180 --> 00:40:47,239
a strong focus

1090
00:40:48,099 --> 00:40:50,775
and a good provocative way to go

1091
00:40:51,174 --> 00:40:53,894
ahead within the paper, within the materials, within

1092
00:40:53,894 --> 00:40:56,875
the copper and aluminum that we use to,

1093
00:40:57,974 --> 00:40:58,474
represent

1094
00:40:58,775 --> 00:41:00,795
this moment of pure perfect

1095
00:41:01,574 --> 00:41:02,635
memory encoding

1096
00:41:03,815 --> 00:41:07,079
and its natural dissolution, its natural

1097
00:41:08,420 --> 00:41:08,920
exchange

1098
00:41:09,219 --> 00:41:10,360
with the external

1099
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:13,400
eyes.

1100
00:41:14,579 --> 00:41:16,340
Is there a reaction that you want from

1101
00:41:16,340 --> 00:41:17,860
people? Do you want them to be able

1102
00:41:17,860 --> 00:41:18,360
to

1103
00:41:18,744 --> 00:41:21,144
to understand more, to feel it more, to

1104
00:41:21,864 --> 00:41:23,464
I I generally don't,

1105
00:41:24,105 --> 00:41:26,905
trust too much the understanding in a very

1106
00:41:26,905 --> 00:41:28,125
debulgative way.

1107
00:41:28,505 --> 00:41:29,964
Of course, there is explanation,

1108
00:41:30,425 --> 00:41:30,925
but

1109
00:41:31,625 --> 00:41:34,559
I'm I prefer if the feelings comes

1110
00:41:35,119 --> 00:41:37,519
from the vision itself and the feeling, the

1111
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:38,019
physical,

1112
00:41:38,559 --> 00:41:39,860
experience of the artwork.

1113
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:41,140
So, for example,

1114
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:43,780
regarding the states of light,

1115
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,800
we choose some of them, and I,

1116
00:41:47,655 --> 00:41:50,535
made the drawings of the path, and we

1117
00:41:50,535 --> 00:41:52,875
engrave these drawings within,

1118
00:41:54,054 --> 00:41:54,554
some

1119
00:41:55,175 --> 00:41:56,074
metal plates.

1120
00:41:56,855 --> 00:41:58,934
I generally work a lot with copper, but

1121
00:41:58,934 --> 00:42:01,434
for this time, I chose also other superconductors

1122
00:42:01,894 --> 00:42:02,715
like aluminum.

1123
00:42:04,030 --> 00:42:05,250
And then for,

1124
00:42:06,269 --> 00:42:07,329
some of the works,

1125
00:42:07,710 --> 00:42:11,010
the the plate is hidden within the paper.

1126
00:42:12,349 --> 00:42:13,489
So I

1127
00:42:14,349 --> 00:42:16,304
I like to play with this, like,

1128
00:42:16,864 --> 00:42:17,764
hidden word,

1129
00:42:18,625 --> 00:42:21,364
as well as quantum word is like,

1130
00:42:22,944 --> 00:42:24,804
there are effects of

1131
00:42:25,664 --> 00:42:28,085
the quantum world surrounding us,

1132
00:42:29,059 --> 00:42:29,880
but they

1133
00:42:30,340 --> 00:42:31,859
their code, their,

1134
00:42:32,500 --> 00:42:33,000
level

1135
00:42:33,380 --> 00:42:33,960
of understanding

1136
00:42:34,260 --> 00:42:35,960
of behaving is

1137
00:42:36,900 --> 00:42:37,400
mostly

1138
00:42:37,780 --> 00:42:38,280
invisible.

1139
00:42:39,539 --> 00:42:40,519
So I also

1140
00:42:40,820 --> 00:42:43,425
like to express it at this level. So

1141
00:42:43,425 --> 00:42:45,765
there are the plates within the paper.

1142
00:42:46,704 --> 00:42:50,144
Nevertheless, you don't see them. I'm definitely sure

1143
00:42:50,144 --> 00:42:51,285
that you can perceive

1144
00:42:51,824 --> 00:42:55,105
the the metal structure surrounding you because then

1145
00:42:55,105 --> 00:42:56,565
the paper is very often,

1146
00:42:57,339 --> 00:42:57,839
displayed

1147
00:42:58,460 --> 00:42:58,960
in,

1148
00:43:00,219 --> 00:43:03,579
within installation that are immersive, so you are

1149
00:43:03,579 --> 00:43:05,119
surrounded by the artworks.

1150
00:43:06,699 --> 00:43:07,679
You can see

1151
00:43:08,059 --> 00:43:10,300
some of the layers, but you don't don't

1152
00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:10,800
necessarily

1153
00:43:11,339 --> 00:43:12,159
have to see

1154
00:43:12,965 --> 00:43:15,465
the wall and the old layers altogether.

1155
00:43:16,244 --> 00:43:19,304
And this happens also with the geometric structures

1156
00:43:19,525 --> 00:43:21,704
that are surrounding the

1157
00:43:22,724 --> 00:43:23,465
the spectator

1158
00:43:24,909 --> 00:43:26,449
because the final,

1159
00:43:27,230 --> 00:43:27,730
bidimensional

1160
00:43:28,190 --> 00:43:31,789
geometric path is visible only from a top

1161
00:43:31,789 --> 00:43:33,409
view or a down view.

1162
00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:37,230
And so in this sense, I like the

1163
00:43:37,230 --> 00:43:40,414
viewer to to to perceive and to go

1164
00:43:41,114 --> 00:43:44,815
layer by layer, but not necessarily to understand

1165
00:43:45,675 --> 00:43:49,275
everything altogether. And this is, lovely also because

1166
00:43:49,275 --> 00:43:50,494
everyone can experience

1167
00:43:51,035 --> 00:43:52,099
its favorite,

1168
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,200
part of the work or the part that

1169
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,619
is more in resonance with his understanding.

1170
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:58,420
And,

1171
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:00,579
for example,

1172
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:01,440
in,

1173
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,460
many of my works, I

1174
00:44:03,785 --> 00:44:04,184
also,

1175
00:44:04,744 --> 00:44:05,244
put,

1176
00:44:05,864 --> 00:44:07,085
some ink drawings

1177
00:44:07,465 --> 00:44:10,684
that are very subtle, very even then invisible,

1178
00:44:12,344 --> 00:44:15,724
relate to memory and to their natural failure.

1179
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:18,250
I I try in this sense to be

1180
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:22,070
gentle, not to push too much my vision

1181
00:44:22,070 --> 00:44:24,409
to the viewer, but to respect the relationship

1182
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:26,329
with the viewer in this sense.

1183
00:44:26,789 --> 00:44:29,605
Quantum physics teach us that everything has a

1184
00:44:29,605 --> 00:44:31,464
physical storage in the universe,

1185
00:44:31,924 --> 00:44:32,744
even memory.

1186
00:44:33,605 --> 00:44:34,105
I'm

1187
00:44:35,045 --> 00:44:37,385
I use for this a lot of, inks

1188
00:44:37,764 --> 00:44:40,085
for the drawings to be very fluid, to

1189
00:44:40,085 --> 00:44:40,744
be very,

1190
00:44:41,119 --> 00:44:42,820
you know, like a river,

1191
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:44,260
untouchable,

1192
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,460
but absolutely

1193
00:44:47,199 --> 00:44:47,699
present.

1194
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:48,900
And,

1195
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,019
coming also from the neuroscientific

1196
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:53,219
and neurobiological

1197
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,400
point of view, the way we think and

1198
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,434
we store and we remember through images,

1199
00:45:01,654 --> 00:45:03,815
is also an aspect that I wanted to

1200
00:45:03,815 --> 00:45:04,315
suggest.

1201
00:45:05,335 --> 00:45:06,315
And with the

1202
00:45:07,174 --> 00:45:09,974
with the quantum world that is, of course,

1203
00:45:09,974 --> 00:45:10,474
naked

1204
00:45:10,809 --> 00:45:11,630
from images,

1205
00:45:13,210 --> 00:45:15,389
it was even more provocative

1206
00:45:15,929 --> 00:45:19,130
to to try to play with this idea

1207
00:45:19,130 --> 00:45:19,869
of memory

1208
00:45:20,409 --> 00:45:21,230
and with

1209
00:45:21,690 --> 00:45:23,789
the with the patterns of superposition

1210
00:45:24,409 --> 00:45:24,569
to,

1211
00:45:25,704 --> 00:45:27,885
suggest even a more visible,

1212
00:45:29,065 --> 00:45:32,105
insides of the quantum world. So they people

1213
00:45:32,105 --> 00:45:34,905
can actually experience this still. Right? You say

1214
00:45:34,905 --> 00:45:37,784
is the there's a a solo show, and

1215
00:45:37,784 --> 00:45:39,730
it's some of it is permanently

1216
00:45:40,030 --> 00:45:41,010
part of the Yale,

1217
00:45:41,869 --> 00:45:42,929
exhibition space.

1218
00:45:44,349 --> 00:45:44,849
Exactly.

1219
00:45:45,389 --> 00:45:47,650
One of the artwork has been,

1220
00:45:48,989 --> 00:45:51,089
acquired. It's now part of the

1221
00:45:51,664 --> 00:45:54,164
permanent collection at the Yale Quantum Institute

1222
00:45:54,545 --> 00:45:56,405
that is visible by appointment

1223
00:45:57,105 --> 00:45:57,344
with,

1224
00:45:58,545 --> 00:46:01,264
with the director with the managing director of

1225
00:46:01,264 --> 00:46:02,565
the institution, Flora.

1226
00:46:03,664 --> 00:46:04,164
And,

1227
00:46:05,025 --> 00:46:05,684
at the

1228
00:46:06,690 --> 00:46:07,190
Haas

1229
00:46:07,570 --> 00:46:11,089
family arts library at Yale, there is a

1230
00:46:11,089 --> 00:46:13,730
temporary show. There is a solo show with

1231
00:46:13,730 --> 00:46:14,630
an art installation,

1232
00:46:15,889 --> 00:46:18,210
along the space of the atrium of the

1233
00:46:18,210 --> 00:46:18,710
library.

1234
00:46:19,844 --> 00:46:22,664
And, then we had some temporary installation,

1235
00:46:23,204 --> 00:46:24,984
in the green for the

1236
00:46:25,364 --> 00:46:26,905
festival of arts and ideas.

1237
00:46:27,925 --> 00:46:30,344
And, in the library in particular,

1238
00:46:30,724 --> 00:46:33,320
we have these 10 panels where

1239
00:46:33,700 --> 00:46:34,200
the,

1240
00:46:34,660 --> 00:46:36,740
the play with the memory and this river

1241
00:46:36,740 --> 00:46:37,320
of images

1242
00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:39,160
is build upon,

1243
00:46:40,019 --> 00:46:41,320
a sense of,

1244
00:46:42,260 --> 00:46:43,640
vision of our reality.

1245
00:46:44,980 --> 00:46:45,480
And

1246
00:46:46,144 --> 00:46:49,204
beyond, there is this level of geometric patterns

1247
00:46:49,344 --> 00:46:52,304
that maybe at the beginning you you don't

1248
00:46:52,304 --> 00:46:53,925
understand what they are,

1249
00:46:54,385 --> 00:46:55,684
but for some reason,

1250
00:46:56,304 --> 00:46:58,545
they are, I think, very familiar to our

1251
00:46:58,545 --> 00:46:59,045
eyes.

1252
00:46:59,670 --> 00:47:00,170
And,

1253
00:47:00,869 --> 00:47:02,569
they are done peculiarly

1254
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:05,909
with the cure effect of some states of

1255
00:47:05,909 --> 00:47:06,409
light.

1256
00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:09,449
So with this idea to

1257
00:47:10,469 --> 00:47:12,170
to have always a multilayered

1258
00:47:12,469 --> 00:47:13,769
reality and a multilayer,

1259
00:47:15,164 --> 00:47:17,664
work that suggests you to go from

1260
00:47:18,285 --> 00:47:18,785
one

1261
00:47:20,285 --> 00:47:22,204
frequency, we can say, to the other, to

1262
00:47:22,204 --> 00:47:24,605
the next, and to experience this idea of

1263
00:47:24,605 --> 00:47:25,105
gradient

1264
00:47:25,965 --> 00:47:27,184
of, perception.

1265
00:47:28,179 --> 00:47:30,340
You know, when you were growing up and

1266
00:47:30,340 --> 00:47:31,860
you were thinking maybe I'm gonna be an

1267
00:47:31,860 --> 00:47:33,860
artist, did you think maybe I'm gonna be

1268
00:47:33,860 --> 00:47:36,039
an artist who's doing some sort of,

1269
00:47:36,739 --> 00:47:37,880
work with quantum

1270
00:47:38,500 --> 00:47:40,820
physicists at Yale? Is that where you thought

1271
00:47:40,820 --> 00:47:42,444
your art was going to go? Well, I

1272
00:47:42,444 --> 00:47:44,224
think that you don't

1273
00:47:44,764 --> 00:47:45,264
exactly

1274
00:47:45,804 --> 00:47:46,625
have a moment,

1275
00:47:47,405 --> 00:47:48,224
to imagine

1276
00:47:48,525 --> 00:47:49,025
how

1277
00:47:49,804 --> 00:47:52,144
it will be when I'll become an artist.

1278
00:47:52,844 --> 00:47:55,085
You just feel, oh my god. It's happening

1279
00:47:55,085 --> 00:47:55,824
to me.

1280
00:47:56,844 --> 00:47:59,170
And to be honest, I always had this

1281
00:47:59,170 --> 00:48:00,630
sort of vision of,

1282
00:48:05,090 --> 00:48:06,550
like, the the geometry

1283
00:48:07,329 --> 00:48:07,829
surrounding

1284
00:48:08,289 --> 00:48:10,930
every shapes of nature was very familiar to

1285
00:48:10,930 --> 00:48:13,765
me even in a sense of natural vision.

1286
00:48:14,305 --> 00:48:14,805
So,

1287
00:48:15,425 --> 00:48:17,765
I think that I always had a very

1288
00:48:18,545 --> 00:48:20,005
close feeling with science,

1289
00:48:20,704 --> 00:48:21,204
and

1290
00:48:23,265 --> 00:48:25,265
this is also what I try to to

1291
00:48:25,265 --> 00:48:27,664
combine at the university. Even if in Italy,

1292
00:48:27,664 --> 00:48:28,644
you have to choose

1293
00:48:29,250 --> 00:48:31,670
if you follow a humanistic or scientific

1294
00:48:31,969 --> 00:48:34,929
path, but I always try to combine and

1295
00:48:34,929 --> 00:48:37,510
to follow more of this. So I think,

1296
00:48:37,969 --> 00:48:40,789
you're right. It was already there, and, yes,

1297
00:48:40,849 --> 00:48:42,309
I had the feeling that,

1298
00:48:43,090 --> 00:48:43,514
these

1299
00:48:43,994 --> 00:48:46,174
two aspect were strongly connected.

1300
00:48:47,114 --> 00:48:48,255
And not by chance,

1301
00:48:48,714 --> 00:48:50,654
when I studied at the university,

1302
00:48:52,154 --> 00:48:52,894
art history

1303
00:48:53,194 --> 00:48:54,335
and then peculiarly,

1304
00:48:55,275 --> 00:48:57,855
the middle age and then the Renaissance art,

1305
00:48:58,154 --> 00:49:00,739
the feeling that science and art were totally

1306
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:01,380
connected

1307
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:05,140
was very strongly,

1308
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,179
related to my studies and to my vision.

1309
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,559
So I think, yes, for both of the

1310
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:11,059
sentences.

1311
00:49:11,804 --> 00:49:13,964
Decide that there is not a moment that

1312
00:49:13,964 --> 00:49:17,565
you decide. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you just

1313
00:49:17,565 --> 00:49:19,804
have to, you know, accept. Do you when

1314
00:49:19,804 --> 00:49:21,885
you were at Yale, does what what's the

1315
00:49:21,885 --> 00:49:24,260
atmosphere like there? Do the scientists sort of

1316
00:49:24,260 --> 00:49:26,099
embrace the fact that they have an artist

1317
00:49:26,099 --> 00:49:27,940
there? Are they all fully on board with

1318
00:49:27,940 --> 00:49:29,859
this idea? Yes. Of course,

1319
00:49:30,659 --> 00:49:31,639
not by

1320
00:49:32,019 --> 00:49:33,000
the whole group,

1321
00:49:33,460 --> 00:49:33,940
but,

1322
00:49:34,659 --> 00:49:37,059
also in the vision of, Florian Carr, the

1323
00:49:37,059 --> 00:49:38,359
curator of the program.

1324
00:49:39,284 --> 00:49:40,824
There is this idea

1325
00:49:41,204 --> 00:49:44,585
to create a resonance that is more personal.

1326
00:49:45,364 --> 00:49:47,364
So with the few of them that we

1327
00:49:47,364 --> 00:49:49,224
have been starting the collaboration,

1328
00:49:49,684 --> 00:49:50,905
it was very deep.

1329
00:49:51,539 --> 00:49:55,559
And, with, Harsh Babla, we developed really,

1330
00:49:56,180 --> 00:49:56,840
the vision.

1331
00:49:57,539 --> 00:50:00,180
They developed the software for me and then

1332
00:50:00,180 --> 00:50:03,239
the models, and so I can really see

1333
00:50:03,380 --> 00:50:04,519
together with him

1334
00:50:04,900 --> 00:50:06,039
what kind of,

1335
00:50:08,531 --> 00:50:09,864
okay, if they are using a state of

1336
00:50:09,864 --> 00:50:10,364
light,

1337
00:50:10,664 --> 00:50:12,364
I can see from the software

1338
00:50:13,065 --> 00:50:14,764
which is the pure one

1339
00:50:15,065 --> 00:50:17,484
and which is the combination of, like, the

1340
00:50:17,784 --> 00:50:19,085
from a to b

1341
00:50:19,545 --> 00:50:20,284
for combination

1342
00:50:20,585 --> 00:50:21,809
if an error is

1343
00:50:22,769 --> 00:50:24,469
coming. So it was really

1344
00:50:25,090 --> 00:50:26,869
shared and in real time.

1345
00:50:27,809 --> 00:50:30,530
And, with with some of the researchers, we

1346
00:50:30,530 --> 00:50:32,230
went really deep in the

1347
00:50:32,930 --> 00:50:34,789
in the research, in the relationships.

1348
00:50:35,204 --> 00:50:38,164
And then I I've been very honored to

1349
00:50:38,164 --> 00:50:39,465
be followed by

1350
00:50:39,925 --> 00:50:42,505
professor Sterling professor Steven Gervin.

1351
00:50:43,285 --> 00:50:43,605
And,

1352
00:50:45,045 --> 00:50:47,219
we deemed the discussion was more

1353
00:50:48,019 --> 00:50:49,400
in a theoretical

1354
00:50:49,699 --> 00:50:50,920
or most philosophical

1355
00:50:51,219 --> 00:50:52,920
way to deepen the subject.

1356
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:56,260
That was, very important to build also the

1357
00:50:56,260 --> 00:50:57,480
statement beyond.

1358
00:50:58,579 --> 00:50:58,980
And,

1359
00:50:59,619 --> 00:51:01,800
so, yes, I I found it very,

1360
00:51:02,344 --> 00:51:04,984
very open. That in a mysterious way, even

1361
00:51:04,984 --> 00:51:07,644
from other people that were may maybe more

1362
00:51:07,944 --> 00:51:08,444
suspicious

1363
00:51:09,065 --> 00:51:10,924
or, I don't know, shy or

1364
00:51:11,304 --> 00:51:12,505
not interested, but,

1365
00:51:13,704 --> 00:51:16,184
I'm glad because also working there for one

1366
00:51:16,184 --> 00:51:16,684
year,

1367
00:51:16,984 --> 00:51:19,210
we had the chance to to become more

1368
00:51:19,210 --> 00:51:20,430
familiar and,

1369
00:51:21,130 --> 00:51:24,250
and especially the work to talk with its

1370
00:51:24,250 --> 00:51:24,989
own language

1371
00:51:25,369 --> 00:51:27,710
that is not just, made by,

1372
00:51:28,970 --> 00:51:30,190
our human relationship,

1373
00:51:30,570 --> 00:51:31,950
but I think it talks

1374
00:51:32,505 --> 00:51:32,904
with,

1375
00:51:33,304 --> 00:51:33,704
its,

1376
00:51:34,105 --> 00:51:34,505
own,

1377
00:51:35,625 --> 00:51:36,125
presence.

1378
00:51:36,585 --> 00:51:39,144
And now one work has been acquired by

1379
00:51:39,144 --> 00:51:39,885
the Institute,

1380
00:51:40,424 --> 00:51:42,605
so it's part of their permanent collection.

1381
00:51:43,625 --> 00:51:44,824
Another work is,

1382
00:51:45,710 --> 00:51:47,650
on a solo show at Yale

1383
00:51:48,190 --> 00:51:49,009
at the Haas

1384
00:51:49,389 --> 00:51:49,889
University

1385
00:51:50,429 --> 00:51:51,250
Arts Library.

1386
00:51:52,190 --> 00:51:54,690
So I hope that the work can continue

1387
00:51:55,309 --> 00:51:55,809
to

1388
00:51:56,429 --> 00:51:57,250
to engage,

1389
00:51:57,630 --> 00:51:59,309
in this discussion between,

1390
00:51:59,630 --> 00:52:01,125
art and quantum physics.

1391
00:52:02,164 --> 00:52:04,164
Do you find that maybe you think like

1392
00:52:04,164 --> 00:52:06,164
this anyway, but do you find that that

1393
00:52:06,164 --> 00:52:08,324
that knowing this about quantum when you're working

1394
00:52:08,324 --> 00:52:10,264
on this this sort of

1395
00:52:11,364 --> 00:52:13,204
the artwork that you're working on and speaking

1396
00:52:13,204 --> 00:52:15,569
to these these quantum physicists, does it change

1397
00:52:15,569 --> 00:52:17,589
the way you see the world around you

1398
00:52:17,650 --> 00:52:19,029
outside of when you're working?

1399
00:52:19,809 --> 00:52:20,309
Definitely.

1400
00:52:20,849 --> 00:52:21,349
Yes.

1401
00:52:22,210 --> 00:52:23,670
It provoked the work

1402
00:52:24,289 --> 00:52:26,309
and, it provoked my vision.

1403
00:52:26,690 --> 00:52:27,190
And

1404
00:52:27,864 --> 00:52:30,905
it's nice because now I won another grant.

1405
00:52:30,905 --> 00:52:33,224
I'll be working again at Yale but with

1406
00:52:33,224 --> 00:52:34,204
another institute.

1407
00:52:34,905 --> 00:52:37,625
But in these days, peculiarly, I was still,

1408
00:52:38,425 --> 00:52:41,644
focusing and and working about the

1409
00:52:41,949 --> 00:52:42,449
quantum

1410
00:52:42,989 --> 00:52:44,449
experience and the quantum

1411
00:52:46,349 --> 00:52:46,849
world.

1412
00:52:47,309 --> 00:52:48,030
As we said,

1413
00:52:50,110 --> 00:52:52,269
there are quantum effects in the world around

1414
00:52:52,269 --> 00:52:53,170
us. So

1415
00:52:53,630 --> 00:52:55,650
once you once you see,

1416
00:52:57,545 --> 00:53:00,345
once you perceive or once you even just

1417
00:53:00,345 --> 00:53:01,085
have the,

1418
00:53:02,425 --> 00:53:04,605
intuition of some of this law,

1419
00:53:05,065 --> 00:53:06,125
I think you can't

1420
00:53:07,385 --> 00:53:08,204
leave them

1421
00:53:09,110 --> 00:53:10,570
or they can't leave you.

1422
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:12,809
Yeah. Amazing. Amazing.

1423
00:53:13,269 --> 00:53:13,769
So,

1424
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:16,730
you've you've got another commission. What's next then?

1425
00:53:17,590 --> 00:53:18,409
I'll be,

1426
00:53:19,829 --> 00:53:20,489
the artist,

1427
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:22,010
in residency

1428
00:53:22,390 --> 00:53:23,769
program at the Institute

1429
00:53:25,505 --> 00:53:28,005
that is, again, focused on

1430
00:53:29,105 --> 00:53:29,605
neuroscience

1431
00:53:30,625 --> 00:53:32,005
and neuro computational

1432
00:53:32,864 --> 00:53:34,164
aspect of robotics.

1433
00:53:35,425 --> 00:53:37,765
A little bit, I've been working also about

1434
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:39,530
AI,

1435
00:53:40,150 --> 00:53:41,369
but my will

1436
00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:42,329
is

1437
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:45,130
to continue the focus on memory

1438
00:53:45,910 --> 00:53:46,410
and

1439
00:53:46,869 --> 00:53:48,010
and so to combine

1440
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:49,849
even my recent experience

1441
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:52,890
at the YQI because I think I'm gonna

1442
00:53:53,315 --> 00:53:55,715
be in touch with the Yale Quantum Institute,

1443
00:53:56,115 --> 00:53:56,615
and

1444
00:53:56,994 --> 00:53:59,715
and some of the collaborative project could go

1445
00:53:59,715 --> 00:54:00,215
ahead.

1446
00:54:00,914 --> 00:54:01,974
But the involvement

1447
00:54:02,275 --> 00:54:03,414
now is more,

1448
00:54:04,035 --> 00:54:05,815
again, related with neuroscience.

1449
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:07,660
And,

1450
00:54:09,559 --> 00:54:12,280
there is also one very intimate aspect of

1451
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:13,900
my work that goes,

1452
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,180
to touch the encounter

1453
00:54:17,559 --> 00:54:18,460
with the people.

1454
00:54:19,464 --> 00:54:21,545
And for this, I'm gonna work with 10,

1455
00:54:21,945 --> 00:54:22,445
Alzheimer,

1456
00:54:23,625 --> 00:54:24,125
patients.

1457
00:54:24,505 --> 00:54:25,945
Alzheimer, this is

1458
00:54:26,344 --> 00:54:28,045
Wow. That sounds really interesting.

1459
00:54:28,344 --> 00:54:29,945
But I think that there is a a

1460
00:54:29,945 --> 00:54:30,445
peculiar

1461
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:32,569
common lexicon

1462
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:34,089
between different,

1463
00:54:34,549 --> 00:54:36,730
aspect of this work about memory.

1464
00:54:37,429 --> 00:54:39,130
And so this is what I'm

1465
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:41,989
kindly trying to develop,

1466
00:54:42,469 --> 00:54:44,329
combining different insights.

1467
00:54:45,005 --> 00:54:46,625
That is mostly from neuroscience

1468
00:54:46,925 --> 00:54:48,704
and from one to word.

1469
00:54:49,405 --> 00:54:51,505
Oh, it's amazing. It's amazing.

1470
00:54:52,925 --> 00:54:54,925
What a lovely, lovely thing. How if people

1471
00:54:54,925 --> 00:54:57,005
would like to know more about your work

1472
00:54:57,005 --> 00:54:58,525
and to follow you, how would they do

1473
00:54:58,525 --> 00:55:00,650
that? K. Follow me on Instagram

1474
00:55:01,829 --> 00:55:05,269
and follow my upcoming exhibitions that will be

1475
00:55:05,269 --> 00:55:06,809
at at Yale again,

1476
00:55:07,269 --> 00:55:08,089
next year.

1477
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:10,489
I'll be also

1478
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:13,429
I'll be most probably working in Europe next

1479
00:55:13,429 --> 00:55:13,755
year.

1480
00:55:15,835 --> 00:55:16,494
So I

1481
00:55:16,795 --> 00:55:19,375
I I'll for sure update my website,

1482
00:55:20,154 --> 00:55:22,875
cut this, but now it's not working because

1483
00:55:22,875 --> 00:55:25,375
of an attacker attack. Oh, no.

1484
00:55:26,340 --> 00:55:27,300
It will be everything on

1485
00:55:28,340 --> 00:55:30,340
next year, it will be everything on my

1486
00:55:30,340 --> 00:55:30,840
website,

1487
00:55:31,380 --> 00:55:34,739
and, I'm gonna have a presentation in Venice,

1488
00:55:35,300 --> 00:55:37,559
most probably also a show in UK.

1489
00:55:38,545 --> 00:55:40,945
And, I'll be working at Yale going back

1490
00:55:40,945 --> 00:55:42,885
and forth from Italy to The US.

1491
00:55:43,184 --> 00:55:45,744
So I hope that also the world will

1492
00:55:45,744 --> 00:55:47,585
allow us to develop these,

1493
00:55:48,704 --> 00:55:49,764
interesting projects.

1494
00:55:50,065 --> 00:55:51,744
Well, fingers crossed for that. And you can

1495
00:55:51,744 --> 00:55:53,585
find links to all of Serena's work and,

1496
00:55:53,585 --> 00:55:56,130
of course, the work with Florian and the

1497
00:55:56,130 --> 00:55:57,590
Yale Quantum Institute

1498
00:55:57,969 --> 00:56:00,869
on the Physics World website, physicsworld.com,

1499
00:56:01,010 --> 00:56:03,030
where you can find this episode

1500
00:56:03,409 --> 00:56:04,309
of the podcast.

1501
00:56:04,769 --> 00:56:06,835
I'd like to thank Serena and Florian for

1502
00:56:06,835 --> 00:56:09,074
talking to me, and if you're lucky enough

1503
00:56:09,074 --> 00:56:11,414
to be near enough to Yale to experience

1504
00:56:11,635 --> 00:56:13,555
some of this art, then I really recommend

1505
00:56:13,555 --> 00:56:15,555
you can get along to that. Unfortunately, I

1506
00:56:15,555 --> 00:56:17,235
won't be able to myself, but I will

1507
00:56:17,235 --> 00:56:19,795
be back next month with something else from

1508
00:56:19,795 --> 00:56:21,815
this wonderful world of physics.