Mamma Mia with Miel Bredouw

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Speaker 1: On the dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do do do. Caitlin started, Oh wait, now we're seeing a different songs. Oh, I don't understand it, and we're off to an excellent start. My name is Jamie Loftis, my name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is the Betel Cast. Will make a fan of attack what is going on today? We started a different way and it threw us all off. No no, no, no no no. I'm willing jump on drums Fernando. Okay, so this is the Battel Cast start podcast about the portrayal of him in the movies. We use the Bechtel test as our jumping off point. If you're joining us with the first time welcome. I have a question for Caitlin, and this will pass the Bechtel test. Maybe, well, I don't know. It depends on like Abba. We know that includes some men. What is your favorite abason? Well, this won't pass the Bechdel test because my favorite Abason is Fernando Mine super Trooper. Okay, I feel like that's is that a B side or is that any side? I don't know. Abbess like catalog enough to really be able to tell, but so Fernando is my favorite Abbas song. That means that conversation does not pass the Bechdel test because the Bectel test requires that a movie that you're watching has two named female identifying characters. They have to speak to each other in the movie, and their conversation, which only by our standards, has to be a two line exchange, but it cannot be about men. So Fernando doesn't, and technically Abba doesn't because Abba is comprised of who who all is in Abba? Uh, bunch of bunch, the whole gang, the whole gangs here, okay, gang is in it, and we love them all except maybe some of them are bad. We don't know. I bet I would say I think ABBA's four or five people. I would say probably it's four people, super producer Sofie is saying, so I would say four people. Probably at least one of them is not a good person, just statistically where people are bad and then their names are and if we're we have Swedish listeners, first of all, good for us, and second of all, I'm about to really destroy the pronunciation of these Swedish names. But it's Agnita faults cog, bjorn ol vs Benny Anderson love that and Annie fred Lingstad. So do you know some guys and some gals and they're all fully arian and they're their hair preer entertainment. Let's get into the podcast. Let's do it. So today we're talking about Mama Mia, the first one Do do Do Do? Do? Do you? The dancing? Oh my god? And here with us to join our discussion is a very wonderful person, co host of Punch Up the Jam podcast, me Albreto. Isn't abba to married couples, or it was really I thought it was. I didn't know that. I'm like a low key Abbastan, just know enough to be dangerous, don't actually know what I'm talking about. I totally believe that they look like they're two couples the way that they're photographed. But the guys get the executive producer rights on these movies, and I don't see the girl's names in there. I wonder. I think maybe the guys wrote the songs, but the girls sing all of them, so it's very confusing. I don't know what's happening, but you don't really think of male voices at all when you think of Abba. It's the gals that's it. As person repeating the name of the song in the background is usually the Also shout out Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson, who are executive produce these movies. I this is okay, Mom and Mia is one of my favorite kinds of cheesy Hollywood movies where it's so clear that's like everyone wanted to go on vacation. Quality was not the priority here. Everyone wanted to go on vacation. I'm sure like all these actors vaguely at least knew each other and they're like, yeah, vacation with this seems fun. They all look like they're having so much fun, even when the movie is like, so it's an annoying movie and I love it. What's your history with this movie slash musical? Okay? I think I probably first watched it when I was like sick at home eight years ago and it just kind of was on and I was too weak to change it. That's all great, movies are seeing for the first time. I definitely did not seek this out. It happened to me, and then it kind of stuck with me, and then probably a couple of years there, I was like, I want to watch it again. So he did, and I was like, this is trash in every sense of the word, and I love it so And then they found out being a second one. I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Yes, and I went out opening already. Oh yeah, And obviously we're not talking about the second one. But in case you were wondering if it makes any sense, it does not. The first one betrays so many things they said up. There's so many continus. They say, the mom is dead outright in the first one and a pink share right, whoa, it's very insane. That does not make any sense. Yeah, there's a lot of continuity errors. I'm just gonna treat it like Spider Man, like when they just started over here. That's so fun. It's fun though. I love it. It's trash and a good way. It's the movie and killen. You made this point the other night because we tried to watch the movie together and then it was like, literally twelve minutes and we're like, we actually all have to go to bed. We went to super producer Sophie's house to watch it, and we're just like, you know what, it's not going to happen. There's just the lighting, is you put? It is so horrible really Like so, I'm not usually that much of a snob when it comes to like the visual aspects, which is I do have a master's degree in screenwriting, though not in film production, so I'm not inclined to like pay as much attention to the more like mechanical side of filmmaking. I'm all about story. But this movie does everything so badly that you can't not notice it. Like, the lighting is extremely bad. The cinematography is so boring. This is the most static movie I've ever seen in my life. You have to give a shout out to the one continuous shot when they're walking up the hill to the church at the end. That is fucking insane. That is pretty. But I'm with you because they do Day for Night the worst I've ever seen it. It's funny Day for Night. The editing is also really boring and bad. I wouldn't say boring, would say is really bad too. No, come on. No, I can't come on at this time. It's so bland. Oh it's there. I do the whole first scene with Amanda. Cyfrid and her shitty friends don't have names. I don't think they the friends have names. They like saying. They shouted at each other where they're like tiny, Say we're Sophie, Ali, Lisa, and we're the greatest, bestest mate. I'm tough, I'm taller, I'm tiny, and we're going to rock this place. That's the only time they say. That's what Galen and Sophie do every time. That whole first scene is like Amanda's is it Cyfred or Sea Freed or does it matter? Not sure? Whatever you believe it. She has flesh colored hair freaks me out, but I do have a thing with flesh colored hair. But she she's like squinting and the sun is in her eyes for the whole first scene for honey, Honey, She's like, honey, honey, But you guys like sunny, sunny. Your eyes are way more sensitive to light when they're blue. I can attest to this. I can't go outside without sunglasses and I literally can't see whoa yeah, because nobody pigment to help you filter sun light. We have strong eyes your evolution, sturdy eyes, a pretty hefty eyes. Uh there, but like all three of them seem like they're in pain. First number where they're like, it's clearly very hot. Yeah right, Oh god, the lighting, Jamie, what does your history so it? This morning? Loved it? Oh, I loved it. I wish I had seen it when it came out? Have you never seen it before this morning? And it's something that I was like, I knew I was gonna really like it. You predicted I would really like it. I love. I love a big dumb musical, I really do. I love especially I love Hollywood musicals where O whe can sing, but most of them, with the extreme accepted of Peters President, most of them can act. None of them can sing. That's my favorite kind of Hollywood musical When they can't sing or act. That's scary. When they can sing and can't act, like when they bring Broadway people into movies and it doesn't translate, that makes me sad. This is my favorite, like permutation of this format where it's like Meryl Streep is merrolling out. She does a great job acting and the secondary starts to sing, You're like, whoa, she's really bad. But this is like everyone's having so much fun. They don't even seem to care that they suck. I bet that most of these people, if asked, would be like, yeah, I'm not a great singer, would great time in Greece. They do look like they're having fun. So my history with this movie is I saw the stage production when I was in college, so somewhere around probably like two thousand five in New York City Stavor Dreams Come True. No, this would be in a state college, Pennsylvania, home of penn State University, where I did get my first film degree. That's another city where true and known for their Broadway shows, big touring production town. Exactly so I thought, and I I really liked it. I liked the stage production. Is everyone in the stage production white? Also, as far as I can remember, it was a predominantly white cast. Yes, um. And then I didn't see the movie when it came out. I didn't see it until earlier this year. I went to Boston to visit a friend of the cast, J. T. Taylor, and he made me watch it, and I kept protesting, and I said, I really don't want to and he said please, and I said, okay, fine, because he's like the new ones coming out, you have to be prepared. So yeah, it's good when a friend looks out for you. Yeah. Yeah. So we watched it and I was like, man, this movie is rooting. Is not good. I'm sure if I liked musicals, I would like this much better a bit. I have a very very low threshold for liking movie musicals that you would be movie musical right, because they're usually better than I don't know, already have to get over the hump of it's a jukebox musical where they tried to string a storyline through songs that already were written. That's crazy, that's what the This is why I don't like this movie. The story makes no sense because they reversed engineered a story around across the Universe, right, so it is there's unless there's And I'm pretty sure this was like the O G musical of this nature, or maybe at least one of the first really popular ones were stuff like Across the Universe, which is not nearly as good. I don't know why I think this movie is so good. I don't know either is good, but it is on that spectrum. There's a word. We're going to find it. It is not good, it's enjoyable, it is popular. I think it's a word that doesn't exist yet. Okay, we're going to create it. There this. I bet this got nominated for an oscar for like costumes, I doubt maybe, but the costumes are all the same. One pair of overalls, one in those overalls. I like waiting for those overalls to result into camel too. I was in full Meryl streep camel toe watch and because they seemed inevitable. If you're a frequent wear of overalls, it happens a lot. Well, no, you're a tall person. I think this is unique experience. I've never had a camel toe from overalls or one. Oh my god, it's so hard to find overalls with like a decent torso length. Yes, this is this is your cross to bear as a person over at five five I was really I was really hoping. I was paying for a streep camel toe and God was asleep. I think that's an automatic fail of the back toel to pull on camel toe. It doesn't pass. It doesn't. Oh no, okay, we're okay. So and I also I did see Mama Mia, here we go again, thank you a few nights ago, and also don't like it, don't find it. Removing Meryl Streep was a mistake for sure. Do you think she was just unwilling to do it again? Well, she's my guest. Yes, she's in the movie for one scene, for a scene at the end. She's one scene. She's taping Doubt to movie and Philip seymore hoff is just like a hologram. Well, it's kind of like how they killed off Meryl Streep while the priest died, so we had to find a new source of dramatic flashion too. It's mostly about Amy Adams Meryl Streeps starting a new religion. Pretty cool to This movie comes out this same year as Doubt, So Meryl I like to think Doubt was filmed first, and you know, because that's the kind of movie that she probably made like six dollars for. And she's just screaming it's at Hoffman all day long, does a real heavy stuff and then she's like, God, I'm exhausted. Let me just I wish someone would pay me a billion dollars to hang out in Greece and not really try the one thing I want to say about Mama Mia too is that this is not a spoiler, but there is a direct Titanic reference in the movie where Colin Firth and Stolen Scars Guard are on the front of a boat. One is behind the other one. The one in front has his arms outstretched and it's just like the Jack and Rowse scene. It's the most beautiful homo erotic scene in a straight movie against such a gift. The whole sequence reminds me of Fast and the Furious. If we're being honest, this has been suggested to us by former uh for us because a former friend of the pot my fucking enemy, no, former guest of the pod or love has really repeatedly flooded my phone with a demand for all eight asked movies reviewed in one episode, which would be a hell of an episode. No no, no, no, no no no, Sophie saying no, I'm just narrating movement. No no, no, no, Sophie seems to be really not loving this. But in in my my counterpoint is I did watch all the Lord of the Rings movie and that was the trial of a lifetime. Yes, so we'll be on the lookout for our Lord of the Rings episode, but okay, so I'll do the recap of Mamma Mia. So the story of Mamma Mia two thousand and eight is Sophie. That's Amanda Seafried's character flesh Air. She old flesh Air. She lives on a Greek island called Kalakari with her mom Donna that's Meryl Streep, at a hotel that they run together and her and Meryl Streep is beautiful but also busted hotel, yes, And Sophie is about to get married, but Sophie does not know who her father is and she's like, who's going to give me away at the wedding? But then she finds her mom's diary that she kept during the year that she was pregnant with Sophie and gets so excited about her mom fucking in a way that is like, Okay, it's not like you shouldn't like not want your mom to have sex, but there is a threshold of like, your way too excited that your mom is like she It's like, yeah, your mom, you know, really cleaned up that summer, but why are you Like She's like, yeah, I think it's the tone of the movie right out the top of women are so fucking horny in this movie, even for their own moms. Okay. So she finds this diary, and in the diary, Donna tells the story of three different guys that she slept with over the course of a very short amount of time. So these are the three raw dogs. Yes, oh, it was a raw summer, very rang not a piece of contraception insight. Okay. The timeline of this movie is very funny to me because if we're taking the lyrics at face value, later on, when they're like, you go, Meryl, it's good that you know you should sleep with whoever you want, they use dancing Queen Young and Sweet only seventeen, which would imply that Meryl Streep is thirty seven in this movie because her right, don't pay attention to the timeline. You're going to ruin it. Don't even think about it. Mert seven years old? Right, yeah? Okay, bit, she's thirty seven. A lot of sun exposure and crazy. Um. So she finds a diary and in it it tells of Sam, Bill and Harry, and these are the three people who might be Sophie's father. So Sophie sends out wedding invitations to all three of them. She somehow knows their addresses even though her mom, Donna, has spoken to them in twenty years. She's a hacker, she hacked, she fully hacked. Amanda Seafreys husband is kind of a hacker. And then although I do think he is just using squarespace, he's like, I'm making a website. It's really clean looking. So Sophie invites all three of these men to the wedding, and then we see a montage scene of them dropping literally everything that they're doing and rushing to their respective airports to get to this wedding. But they think Donna invited them, so they dropped everything to try to fuck. Yeah, woman, they haven't sucked in twenty years. That it is so weird that all of them, like the men in this movie, are extremely docile like and very obedient to the point where it is kind of irrational, where it's like, wait, you just showed up. Yeah, they're safe men, the super their allies are. They're extremely unhinged in it. I would be like, hey, do you mind sailing across? They're holding a very tiny boat together, like it's clearly not easy to get there, and they're like yeah, sure they might have. They well, everyone sucks in this movie, I'm pretty sure for sure. So Sophie wants to figure out which of these three guys is her father, so she invites them all to the wedding under the pretense that it was Donna who invited them, right, And they arrive and they're like, oh, we're here to see Donna, and Sophie's like, no, you can't see her yet, and then whatever your hair. Donna finds out that they're there, she pitches a horny fit. Basically, I love that horny fit. She's underneath the fucking floor boards and it's like, I'm so horny. This is my worst nightmare. And also getting too horny getting horne is my worst nightmare. I haven't done it before, and I'm scared. There's no I I used to have this dream that everyone I've ever had sex with would just like be having brunch without me, and I would have nightmare. That's the nightmare. But that's basically kind of what happens, where like three guys she had sex with who she didn't think knew each other are all there twenty years later, and she's freaked out by it. But she doesn't ask a lot of questions. No. Well, again, almost nothing in this story makes sense. It's also the gohouse scene is where they start incorporating this like very often on Greek chorus theme they have going on through Yeah you just pop out of nowhere, and like part of the scene, all the locals are like, hey, we're saying the only vaguely non white people in the movie, who I'm pretty sure are all actually white. Still, there's not a single Grecian person in this movie. No, I feel I feel like the only Grecian people are used very much as set dressing, Like as is the unfortunate trend in movies like this, where they're like, let's just put a bunch of extremely Caucasian people and then we'll have people who live there but holding the chickens, not speaking roles, they're having things thrown at them. They work for the white people, and that is mostly unfortunately how that goes. Same in the second one, if anyone's keeping track, they learned nothing as long as no one learned anything, Okay, So then the dads are there and Sophie's like, let's spend the day together, and then throughout the course of like because her wedding is the following day. So throughout the course of this like twenty four hours, she spends time with them. She's kind of like has like a one on one moment with each of them. And during those moments, each of the men Bill, Harry and Um Sam are like, wait a minute, I'm your father, aren't I, And She's like, I d K. And then she's like yeah, right, literally never yeah. So much confusion is created where she anytime someone's like, am I your dad, she says yes, are you Yeah? And then they later the reverse happens where they run up to her they're like, I'm your dad, and she's like, oh, yeah, this three times right, So she doesn't know. And then meanwhile like Donna is like, why are these dad's here? I don't like Sophie can never find out. And then so like it's this whole comedy of errors kind of thing where it's like I don't know that she knows, and she doesn't know that I know, and blah blah blah blah blah. And then finally at the end, during the wedding of Sophie and her Sky. So then at the wedding, all the dads are like yeah, I might be your dad, but we don't need to need to know you're our daughter anyway. And Donna is like, yeah, everything's great and everything, and then Sophie decides not to get married after all. But then Pierce bross like, why waste a good wedding, So then Pierce Brosnan, who is, uh, yeah, Sam was a good wedding, Donna, and then they get married, and then then there's some more songs and that is the end of the movie. It's another thing I love about movies. I love this nature as they take twelve minutes stand for no reason for sure. So let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the discussion and we're back. I was starting the song Mama Mia. Yeah, okay, I know, I gotta go to that like weird it like boom bum bum bum bum boom. It's kind of like because it's scary. It's a scary chord. The cool thing they did. They're cool songwriter, They're cool. The A's were married to the Bees was in the movie. I'm so mad about all this. Yeah, they should be called bah Bah. It takes place in New Jersey. I'm on board. It's trying to who owns the spaghetti restaurant? Like, what is Papa boot here? I go? I get why? Why? Where's the bust of meat? I want to meet sandwiches? Okay, call back to point break. All right, So this is our unhinged say I think I'm the reason. I'm so sorry. I'm cuts. I'm so sorry. I sucked it out. I brought my notes and they're really bad. This is a safe place. No one ever brings notes. This is thrilling. Oh that's so great. So I kind of the first time I saw this, I like kind of when I watched and I was like, I don't even know what I'm going to say about this, Like what are my talking points? And then one of our fans tweeted at us with tweets from Keiley Flattery. Who is that someone? Yeah? Uh, she tweeted the yes MoMA Mia is a fun and fluffy musical, but also the story is about a working single mother. It's about sex positivity. It's about the importance and longevity of female friendships. It's about dismantling the pressure placed on people, especially women, to get married. Also, well we'll debate that. And it's about an imperfect but deeply loving relationship between a mother and a daughter. It's men excited to embrace their role as father's it's men's father figures showing up for and prioritizing their daughter, and it's about the beauty of non traditional family's. So I was like, Okay, this, I can kind of use some of these as sort of the basis that's I think that that's maybe a little bit too nice, but but definitely all of those are grounded in what happens in the movie. And on the oh serious note, this is like one of those weird movies that I feel like these kinds of movies always do so well internationally because like a lot of movies we've been covering recently, there are hints of female empowerment and sex positivity, but the conclusion of the movie is always very heteronormative of like we're getting married and like literally every woman given attention in the story. So I'm like kind of counting out, uh, Fleshheads friends because I really want to see them at the beginning, and they're not the second one. They're they're not yeah, like they're they like they're not really characters, but like the four main women, Amanda Meryl Christine, Ron Weasley's mom, right, those are their character names and all of them by the end, and I was like, oh, maybe Ron Weasley's mom will get to be single, but they don't. I mean, every single one of those women ends up with a guy, or it's implied that they're going to end up with a guy, and there's all an there's a song for all of them about how they're gonna end up with a guy. Meryl, who is like the most sex positive character in the movie, is you know, married to But I don't know. I just like I feel like it goes in the right direction. And then at the end it just reached us kind of the obvious hetero normative conclusion. Well, I mean, you're forgetting called Firth does say he's gay and end up with a man hetero that's true. That yeah, that's true. And I also will say a bone to pick with that tweet is that stolen scars guards the whole end of movie arc here is that he's like, I don't want to be a dad at all. I'm not ready for this. That's true. So I don't know about the last third guy right right right, But to me, instead of run Weasley's mom. She is Mrs Bird from Paddington and Paddington two. So that's really how I'm gonna classify her. But I'm calling her not Tracy Ullman. Okay, everyone has an interesting take on this woman. She she is great in this movie, and Christine make the movie they really like, give us that. Yeah, I would like that movie, but Christine Branski is wonderful. Christine Baranski hints at her own semi obvious plastic surgery and one shot of this where she pulls her face back the whole plot point. Yeah, like making fun of her for all the work she's had done. And then when she sees a man of cipher, she's like, you probably don't recognize me because your face is so different. That's like, can we stop subtweeting Christine please? She seems game for it, I know, and her back muscles were amazing. I love her and The Good Wife and The Good Fight and other Grench so Christmas and Chicago and wells an't love it all. Both Finger is my favorite movie that she's in. So Christine Branski and Mrs Bird, Yeah let's start, are Donna's two best friends, and they appear again in the sequel and then we all love it and shows have a great time. I feel like they passed right at the top when she's rausing her about the cookbook on the boat, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of their stuff does. So yeah, it's a great female friendship. I think, Um, there's really nothing coming between them. They're all like, well, why didn't you tell us about like who? But other than that, there's like not that much tension in the story between them. It's just like all positivity. They had. The few conflicts that come up sort of end with the other two like lifting her up where there are times where and this didn't even totally miss for me, but like when Donna Merrill occasionally expresses like regret or shame or feeling bad about herself or fearing that her daughter will judge her because her daughter is sort of like more conservative and traditional than her mom is. But every time that happens, her two friends are like, no, you're great, like you were so hot and fun and then they sing dancing Queen and anytime like my earl's feeling like, they do the friend thing and they're like, no, you're you're the best, and you fucked so much and we thought that was awesome. Yeah, you raw dogged hard summer. And then and then Meryl's like, you know what, I did raw dog a lot that summer. And then she starts to dance on the bed and I was like this rules. Yeah. So it's like women uplifting other women. That's very nice dancing. I don't think it mentions young, does it? Yeah? I think I think a lot of it does. At least they're exchanges that do. But it's weird because like in this movie, they give random characters they I love how they it's such everything as a reach in terms of contextualizing it. Where the end of Honey, Honey, where it's like all about her mom sucking, at the end, it's like, but I wish I had a daddy. At the end, you're just like they missed me with that. I think that is one of the big problems that I have with this movie is that it's a story driven by Sophie desperately knee to know who her father is and feeling emptiness because she does not have a father in her life. I think Sophie is like my least favorite character in the movie's she super sucks. Not that it's like fiance is like I don't really want to get married, can we please not? And her mom's like, hey, why are you doing this? And she's like, fuck you, I'm around. I'm establishing a ruse here. This is the lamest parent trap ever. It's like, I literally is. And that's not to say like if you don't know who one of your parents is, it's okay that that could bother you. Like that's logical, that's fine. But the way she goes about it just you know, she's like, oh, this is the key, and that's not really thoroughly challenged. Yeah. I think her like she said something like I need I need to know who my dad is in order to feel complete. Direct quote from the movie is that I feel like there's a part of me missing. And I think at one point Sky, her fiance, says something like no, you, like you just need to figure your own self out, Like knowing who you're dad isn't going to like help you find yourself. Like you have to find yourself because you already have a family, right, Yeah, So like that, but I think that's the extent to which that goes challenged. The end, her whole arc is realizing the air of her ways. She ends up why did I need a dad? I've had you this whole time, you give me away at the wedding. But then it's also like why do I need a dad? I have three dads now, So it's like I feel like the message wasn't like my mom was enough the whole time. It was like wedding, yeah, but then the monk gets married. I don't know well again, so so much in this movie doesn't make like characters reactions to things often don't make sense, but the story is written that way to serve the next song that's coming up, So like I feel like a discussion that we would like usually have in an episode like this, we're just like, well, it doesn't even make any sense, Like he didn't make it, Like it's just a series of setups for another avid song. But but like building a movie around the theme of like the very regressive giving away, like one man gives you a way to another man, and it's like, no, my mom going to give me away to another man. But then but then she doesn't get married. I think Scott should dump her personally because she's not awesome. It seems like, you know, Sky's here, He's got his Squarespace account. He seems to really care about her. He's helpful, he goes along with her family, and she's always like I'm scamming people and I'm mad and I'm yelling at my mom. Yeah, she is like rather than like just talking to anyone about what's troubling her, Like, instead of being like, hey, mom, could you maybe give me a little more information about who my father might be, she like steals her diary reads it, which is like a huge violation of her mom's privacy. Then goes through the trouble of like inviting those guys, like she doesn't know how those relationships like panned out or like how they ended, like they might have like who knows. Now she actually knows that Sam like cheated on his fiance with her mom and that's how they watched things and she invited him anyway, that's right. Yeah, that's really mean to your mom. It's very selfish what she's doing, Like instead of because and maybe I really because there were some moments of watching this movie where I was just smiling so much so I don't think I was fully listening. Does she ever reference ever being like and I asked my mom who my father was, and she said, no, I'm never going to tell you, and that's why she's scamming. At the very beginning, she says something to the effect that Donna had told her like, oh, it was just a summer romance and that's all. She's like, and I came to accept that that's all I'd ever know. And then when she finds this diary, she's like, oh, I can use this to like piece together the puzzle, but it is supposed to be and reveal at the end at the altar when real strips like I don't know which one it is that's supposed to be news, but like de dot, you don't know, Like how about a surprise? Like we put that together as viewers in the first scene there it is weird. I don't know. I mean to an extent like you're saying, Caitlin, like tearing apart. The plot of this movie is like pointless. It is fun, but it is also pointless. But yeah, like the thing it was like she could she's she's an adult, she could go up to her mom and be like, Hey, I'm getting married, and I'm like sorry, if this makes you uncomfortable, you don't have to answer. But like do you know who my father is? We're led to believe they have a good relationship, but I will say we see them together very little, and when they are together, there's like seems to do some animosity between each other because it seems like Donna disapproves of this wedding and of her getting married to Sky. She for sure does, yeah, but then it's all remedied with slipping through my fingers. That's like the big moment of like, fuck, I just I don't want you to grow up. That's what this really is. I love you, and she's like really here. I did like that. I don't know. I like that scene. It made me cry. And anything about Mama that made you cry, Yeah, I cried when rail strip cannonballed off the dock in the fake SloMo like they couldn't afford to hire frame rate what the book was? Just like that passes the beds, A cannonball passes the lady, throwing her sticks in the air and joining the dancing congo line. That passes. Yes, does she come back in the second movie? I feel like there's a quick reference to her. She doesn't the oh my god, but there is the just to close the leap on the mother daughter relationship. It is weird and all over the place, as is all of this movie. I did like at the end where one of the few coherent themes of this was Meryl straight fearing being judged by her own daughter for past promiscuity. That is like a definite thing that we know that she's worried about her daughter learning about and passing Jack. And I do close that loop, like right before the fucking nuts wedding not wedding scene where Meryl like kind of directly asked her like She's like, I'm sorry, and like, do you hate me because I funk a lot? Which is passive aggressive, but and then was like, no, you can funk whoever you are, and you have my mom. I think she even says you can have sex with a hundred people and I wouldn't care. And the priest is like, yeah, I know. I was like that. I was like, did you fuck the priest? But but it seems nice And and then Amanda sy freeds like you give me away? And then I did, right, and oh dude, then you're gonna ball on the second one. No, I I do like I know that you don't like wedding culture. I like, I love I love country, I like looking at every never. Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll be right back with my hot takes about wedding wish Welcome back. Everyone knows the meat. Oh I really quickly, I do want to say about So here are my problems with weddings, and then we can move on to something else. M r as are about to slide it in. Get ready. Well, you know what, if m r as don't hate us, then we're not We're not doing a good job, I think. So weddings, traditional hetero weddings are steeped in pretty sexist traditions where it's like, oh, my daughter is property and I the father, have to give her literally away, right, I have to give you four hundred goats to get rid of this fit. So the fact that we maintain that tradition in contemporary weddings is really baffling to me. That's another thing that made me not like Sophie, because I don't I don't have a problem with what I mean. I understand that wedding culture and marriage is inherently patriarchal and and regressive, but Sophie's character is like, it's so weird where this is this was the amount where I was like Sky should dump her where basically he calls her out where and I hate taking on then side on literally anything, but I am sort of like team Sky on this one because he also says that he's like, listen, I didn't want to get married and I put my life on hold because I love you, and this is what you said you wanted. And now it turns out that you were just throwing a big fucking parent trap that has nothing to do with me. And she's like, so that love me, and he was like, no, I do, but why did you turn this thing into a parent trap? And you spent all our money on a parent trap? And that's frustrating. That's a frustrating quality in a mate much like Disney's The Parent Trap, where Lindsay Lohan, one of the characters, is like, I'm not going to be complete until I've met my father because a daddy is such a crucial part of a girl's life. And it like that movie still goes both ways where it's also parent to desire in this movie, like she already has a very strong bond with her mother. She has seems like good relationships with her mother's friends is unclear how often she sees them every time do you remember me? But it seems like between Sophie's mom and Sky, she has at least a couple of loving relationships. So it's just a little unclear to me why she feels so empty and so incomplete by not knowing who her dad is. And again that might that's her. Like, I wouldn't want to make anyone like if I mean, I don't I was lucky enough to grow up with both my parents, so I wouldn't know what it's like to have a missing parent, and like it sounds like there's a level of trauma for that for depending on who you are. Based on Star Wars, I think it's a pretty big deal. Yeah, exactly. And if we are using that as her yard stick, now, I know plenty of people, though, who grew up with a single parent and they don't seem to be pining, But did they not know who their other parent is? Because I think that's the component that seems to be key in Star Wars and was my parents two yardsticks there? I just I just like I wouldn't want to like shame anyone for like, because I think that that is a rational feeling, but the way the story plays it out is a little bit it doesn't challenge. Yeah, I understand the feeling. What I think I'm bothered by is her explaining that she feels incomplete, like she needs a man in her life as a father figure, and not having that makes her feel incomplete. Like the the implication is me, as a woman, in order to feel complete, there needs to be a male presence there, and that's what is like I'm having trouble with. I didn't get that. I mean, I think technically it's probably true on paper, but I sense that it was as a matter of I want to know who both my parents are. It didn't feel inherently like because she never even says like no one was there to teach me how to change a tire, Like there was no allusion to like I need a man like. I really didn't get that. And from when I got from Sky, it sounds like they met while he was traveling and he just like stopped on an island was like, Hey, I'm gonna stay I guess, and marry her. Yeah. So like I get the sense that it's always been her and her mom, and that's not been an issue, but now that she's getting married, it's like, well, I kind of do want to know who my dad is, though right I don't know the female stuff so strong in this movie. I didn't really feel like it was a matter of like we need man And in fact, Christine's storyline to me was like the exact opposite. She's like, I just want to fuck and I don't care about man. I it's it's weird where this whole story is weird. I don't prograbe someone for wanting to know who about their parents are, but it is like, I do see what you're saying, Caitlin, with like the feeling of and I feel like Meryl Streep's character even kind of articulates this a little bit of like I understand that you want to know who your dad is, but it does make me feel bad that you feel such a gaping hole in your life when I tried really hard, but they sort of seemed to resolve that by the end. And then there's a Meryl Streep has a great line, even though the storyline doesn't really end up reflecting it at all. But like when I guess like Pierce Browsnon is supposed to be her one true love, which is I've never seen less chemist stream between two people in my whole life than Meryl Stream and Pierce brawsnon howling like wolverines at the top of a Grecian mountain to what's the fucking song? But it's like a really that shot is also impressive. I will say that is a good shot. It's a good shot. But Pierce Browson and Meryl Streep are so physically far away from each other and singing and not making and they re arranged it. I hate it. They don't abandon but the pierced thing. Okay, so she sees him again and it took me a while to figure out he was the true love, which it makes sense, but anyways, I didn't. I didn't figure it out until he's like, He's like, I've loved you this whole Like to me, there's nothing that really clearly indicates it's journal. That's why they make called Firth game because it's like, let's just take him off the table so you don't feel bad for him. Car Scard's a drunk, he's a man the whole time, like I don't want to be here, I'm going to leave. And then Ron Weasley's moms like, no, you ate because cars kind of feel like disappears from the movie for a solid forty minutes. I forgot I was here. I wanted to see a quivering There's something about Colin Firth w It's like it just always he's acting like he's always someone's just throwing a bucket of water out to him, or he's just quivering. That's why he had like a bad way though. Right, I'm just like, you're so I'm going to fix You're going to fix you, you poor puppy. But Meryl and Pearce are having some sort of confrontation and you're like, sure, we're doing this, but she's said like he's like, what you didn't And none of the men say anything outright misogynists, but they're sort of like Meryl streeps magical vagina makes anyone fall in love with her for decades, like it's just a thing, And can you imagine knowing someone for a week twenty years ago and still considering them like a viable part of her dingy and watch my daughter get married. He's like, why didn't call him for it? Even go? But anyway, she says, I love being on my own. I wake up every morning and I thank God for not having a middle aged menopozzle man blah blah blah, and I'm single and it's great, which is great, but when she's saying it, you can tell that she's like, she doesn't really feel that way. Well, then she sings money money and talks about how much she wants to just marry a rich man. This is actually and they do another Titanic reference, do they? I mean, no one's holding her, but she's doing she just love Titanic in that's her I'm the King of the World moment is so weird too, because that number starts with her breaking one of her own windows, and then she goes down to pick up the window, and then people start throwing money and you're like, what are they giving again? It's like this recoursing they do for one third of the movie and they're like, never mind. There was like we're Greek people only available for because there's sometimes where her like hotel whatever it is seems full of people and employees, guests not sure, and then other times where it's abandoned because the squirre space has taken a while. Oh wait, there is a full on blooper just in the middle of the scene that they keep in there. It was just like they did one take. It's when um Christine Bransky, Meryl Streep and Mrs Bird. Christine's like, oh, I know that you're going to make a fortune with webs. Webs. Oh no, she meant to say Sky's website, but she says webs and then they like make fun of her for and like it's clear that it was like not in the script, and she just like bloopered the hell out of that, and then love script really yeah, was like I know, the exact scene on the bench like drinking in the morning, and I was like, Wow, they're like really good at seeming authentic. Maybe she's that good. I don't know, why would she Why would that that serve no purpose? Like I think there was just establishing friendship. I don't know. It seemed like a really good choice to me. I was like, I believe it now. Well then, I mean because they laughed together and they're like, I'm pretty sure that's a blooper and they just left it in. But I would say that most of the like explicitly problematic things that get said or like moments in the movie come in the form of an Abba song where like the one you were talking about, where she was like, all I want to do is just find a rich man to marry to take care of me. And it's like that's not really what's not And then I felt okay and not to stand out for like I thought the nature that that number was kind of playful and dumb, and in context I don't think I wasn't like, oh, this is sending a bad message because she didn't really mean it, and everything she says afterwards indicates that she didn't really mean it. She's like, yeah, I'd be great if someone just like gave me a ton of fucking money. I say that all the time, though I'm always like, yeah, I wish that some loser would give me a billion dollars so I could do whatever the funk I want. Well, what I'm saying is that, unlike a lot of movies we covered, there's no like explicitly problematic things that get said throughout the course of the movie except four and songs that are thirty years old. Like there's another moment rter On where it's when Sky is singing and he's all like, I'm possessive and every man I see is a potential threat. Yeah, that's the porno scene. That's that's where they're fully fun on the beach. But he's basically saying it's kind of like Babba Boy's problem, right, Like that's ABBA's problem and not the Movi. It makes no sense for his ark or their storyline at all. I think he just couldn't shoehorn in that song. So they're like, I don't know, this guy can't sing at all. There's a lot of God when they're like, let's send Baranski and Weasley's mom acapella. We ran out of studio musicians. Listen, the guy with the zylophone sick. They're gonna have to go acapella today. They also to the top of super Trooper. The outfits and super Trooper are from Ricky in the flash that. I was very excited because when we talked about it the other day, Kail and You're like, I know it's in the first it's in one of them, but I don't remember which one. And I was like, oh, I hope the first one, and it is the first one, and it's it's back in the second one for the credit sequence. The credit sequences in both movies are worth a watch. Super Trooper is great, especially because the men wear them too, and they kind of have this like sheepist expression, like they're like this is kind of gay, huh boys, but like they love it anyway. They have like a no, yeah, okay, but it's like barely there. And I feel like usually that's all that's there. When you put straight men in like full on jumpsuits with frilly sleeves, that is such like an international movie, I mean, and I think that that is something we don't talk a lot about on this podcast that does make a difference where it's like this movie was hugely let me let me look up exactly how hugely successful, but it was. It was a big international movie. And I feel like with movies that are intended to do really well internationally, it is very frequently like they will only hint at progressiveness and they won't go all the way out because they're like, well, then China will not show it in theaters. You need in terms of like having like Harry be identifiably queer in the movie, although he does not kiss his partner at the end, the only hugs. It's very weird it's like that where it's like by the end of this movie, all the hetero people are literally soaking wet and fucking and they're talking and the same the same with and this goes into like what we were talking about yesterday with like the vague like nineties two thousands still sometimes now like you go girl freedom and progressiveness and you know, like pro woman stuff. But then also you still have to get married at the end. And that's I don't know. I mean that those are the movies that do well internationally, right because I mean that's just like the Hollywood narrative, you know, is not a hit in China. I would throw in the mix to that theory that perhaps musicals just do well internationally because that's it's a visual thing. There's less nuance lost in translation, and that's jobbing and stuff. This movie costs fifty two million dollars, made six hundred fifteen million dollars. Dude, why don't we have eight mama? I know it made a ton of money, but like with Harry's character, there's a scene where he tries to come out to build there in the boat and he's trying to come out and then they ends up there talking about different things, and then I thought he wasn't trying to come out. I thought he was trying to tell him about Sophie and Stone Scars. Guards thinking he's trying to come out, and then they throw in the actual thing is like a bit almost. It's unclear exactly because I interpreted as him trying to come out. Maybe I don't know. It's it's very unclear. But in any case, at the very end he does he's like, oh no, I have a reason to say, and he looks to like this handsome guy who's like sitting at the wedding, and then they have a hug at the end, but yeah, like a light hug. Right, So it's it's representation on screen of an identifiably queer person, but it's so glossed over and we don't Yeah, we don't get to see a kiss. We don't, but because we do get to see Bill and Mrs Bird kiss a lot, which I do enjoy that it's like old Usually we don't see older people like get to be sexual on screen, like I wish we would a more. Made me so horny. Oh my god, that that wild scene that with the pigeont I was fucking wet dude. But when we're Baranski is like in a beach full of young people and it's like I could fuck all of you, and like that's the whole song. She's just kind of like wanting to fund a whole beach full of people, not going to date any of you. Yeah we will only that's great. And then there's that one day in particular, who seems to be really into her. She blows, she does suck him. Yeah, she sucked him on the batchelbat party night, and then the next morning he's like, hey, how about it. She's like, no, no, no, I was drunk. We're not talking about is that you need to know? He does, but she actually ties a towel into a diaper around him instead to show that he's a baby. It's a big mystery. He is the same man that says now baby right, that's his first auction into the film, in case you were trying to track it. Well. So so he's like a good two to three decades younger than he's I'm pretty sure like seven. Yeah, he's extremely and again unclear how old like Meryl and her friends are, because it's that would have to be when happened unclear, but yeah, so we see like Christie being romantically involved with a much younger guy. Usually we don't see that in movies. Usually it's Tom Cruise who's fifty five, and then you know a woman who's twenty five, or you know, any combination of older actors and much younger Meryl might even be older than Pierce. I think Meryl sixty nine. She don't know how old pierces. I want to say, like sixty three. She's older than all three of her love interests in this movie. She's born forty nine. I think that respectively. I don't know who is who, but it's like fifty three sixty. Colin Firth is eleven years younger than her. So uh, fucking swish for Meryl and then wish for Colin first. I mean, everyone wins, right, we're right in this funk pile, we all holes a hole and then the funk pile between Mrs Bird, whose character's name is actually Rosie Rosie and t right. Yeah, oh yeah, that's that's um right. But Rosie is going after her bill and aggressive, very aggressively, Like if the genders were reversed, we'd be freaked out. Yeah, so she's pursuing him, and again, he don't often see a woman pursuing, especially that she actually gets him and she gets him because he like, usually if a woman is pursuing, it's to be like creepy, gross, hag, won't leave me alone. But it's actually like she knows what she wants. They can kiss a lot, and they're like, she does have to chase it around the entire villa first, and you have a near death experience, but it pays off. Again, we can't there's so much of this movie that we can't really take a phase value because nothing makes sense and it's so silly and nothing makes sense. But the things that do happen, it's like, okay, like older people like being sexual. That's pretty cool. An older woman and a younger guy like, that's pretty cool. Harry. I want to go back to Harry and like Harry Headbanger. Of course, Harry Headbanger, Like I get it. They have to appeal to international markets and it's two thousand eight, you know this is still a time where and not to say that couldn't win American at all, it was at different times. So it's really only like a tiny glimpse or a hint of queerness, whisper a whisper of a whisper of queerness. Because we spent so much time on like Bill and Mrs Bird. Mrs Bird like picking up Bill with her talents because she's a literal bird. But I don't know, um, And we spend a lot of time on Sam and Donna ending up together at the end, but we can't spend any time on Harry exploring his sexuality. Well, I feel like it's not dealt with horribly, but it's like to an extent, And I'm sure, and I haven't seen the musical, but I would wager guess that this would be even more agreed just in the musical, just because it's older that him being queer is almost like a punchline, just to take him out of the running, as it were for Meryl's heart. Um, but I don't know, I even seen a musical and I don't remember how that plays out, but I want to see it. Yeah, So what we have liked to have seen more than what we're given? Sure? Is that a question? Is that real question? I would always like to see more queerness, right, I will not rest until every single person, both actors and characters are queer movies. Imagine how awesome and all queer person of MoMA Meo would be. It would be it basically is, so why not just let it be? You know, Yes, I want to three between Mrs Weasley. Yeah, it should be like a young trans person who's like, I want to know which like sperm donor like only to see it if I'm going to get Alzheimer's right, very practical. Yeah, that should be the story. And I also want to talk about how the reviews for this movie versus Mama Mia Here we Go Again. On run Tomatoes, it only got a fifty fresh so critical audio not critics. So critics did not especially like this movie was about half and half where they were like, it's okay and the other ones were like boo, but MoMA Mia Here we Go Again. As of this recording has an eight percent fresh on Rotten Tomatoes and critics. So people have been pointing that, and it's not. It's not as though Mama Mia Here we Go Again is a much better movie. Would say Mama far worse based alone on the fact that Meryl Streep is not really in it was the only Meryl Streep is good in one is because it's Meryl Streep. But Mama Me and Here We Go Again does have Fernando in it, making it the better movie. But yeah, but I do want to see that movie now, but you have to, I do. Yeah, I mean, now that I've really loved the first one, I'm like, Doubt Too Better be good. You know, if you skip MoMA Mia to Doubt to Better be a sucking banger. So the point is people are talking about how it's not as another sequel is any better. It's just that, like the cultural landscape, it's that Donald Trump is president. People need to feel happy more. And I think it's just like critics are a little more tolerant of like a female driven story about a woman who humps a bunch of guys. Okay, humps, that is an attack. I can't believe you just use that word. I love hump. I will leave because like many filmmakers are straight white men, so are many movie critics. So I know, I don't know. I just wanted to point out the disparity between like the fresh and rotten ratings, like in this ten year between the two movies coming out, and it's not as though the sequel is that much better. I think it's just that we're seeing like a little bit of a shift happening in our landscape. Yeah, I agree that, like the criticism, landscape is shifting. And also there's more like not to two to rown fucking horn. Sorry, but there are more like there are other outlets to to talk about movies now that there weren't in two thousand and eight, including uh you like I mean two that's like o G podcast so and that's like we're first lock in the gates, you know. Yeah, well, I think this movie is my favorite movie. I love to listen. I'm not as saying to say I love to feel good. Yeah, I love a feel good movie. I like to feel good. I can't usually feel the way I feel after watching Mamma Mia or Mama Mia to here we go Again without a lot of drugs or Bubba booty or is that the word that we were for whenever we have to make up or baba. Yeah, this movie makes me ends and I go, well, bub they did go again. This is maybe Meryl's best year. I mean, she's on one hand, in the summer, she's mom, She's Bubba buy Yeah. By winter from winter, she's doubting up a storm, she brings Mama, and then fall is Julia and Julia. That's the Meryl spectrum. Like on a scale of Donna to lady, what's her name, sister Allowish, sister aloishes, listen, I I stand for sister Elowishes. Don't get me wrong, make them voice go local. Thank you for seeing me. That crowns limb. So that's everything I had. I think I have so much more. How we have an hour? How many? fIF three more hours? I would just like to add my one thing that um, women are horny, triple underline horny. That's um. I think that's the thesis of mom and MEA one and momvia to Actually I think so, yeah, I would. I would argue that this movie is, for the most part pretty sex positive. There is a moment where Donna slut shames herself by literally calling herself as and I love self slating. Does that mean masturating? I think I'm a slut for me? No, I like, I mean we're on the hat sluts what top network right now? So I don't know. The fucking friends immediately are like, no, that sounds like your mom, which betrays the second one, in which the moms share and I think actually share in the universe. I'm not totally sure because she's like in this one. In the first one, they say, a my mom's dead, be my mom was Catholic. She put so much Catholic. You'll tell me that when she found out was pregnant, I wasn't allowed to come home, which is why I'm all in Callicari or whatever the book it's called. And she would she called me a slut when she found out I had sex with strangers. In the new one, she was too much of a rock star to be around. And it's also shared, and she's not dead. I do like that. The setup of Mama Mia one is that Meryl Street was literally marooned on Funk Island for life. That's the caption underneath Mamma Mia and then underneath that semi cool and semi cold and women's get horny too. All that that was when I was like, oh, she got pregnant as a very young woman. Her parents didn't understand, and then she began to manage a hotel. What is this Gilmore, girls, Oh, I've never seen it. Women, Thank you so much for funnily saying it. Now we can end the podcast. Actually, I'm not a fan. Get out of here. Um, did you have anything else you want to say? We haven't changed your mind. I'm so surprised. I just and I like Abbot. It's not that I don't like Abbat. I like most of the cast. I'm here from Meryl. I'm here. It was weird to me to see Stalin scars Guard as like a romantic interest because he's played a villain in so many movies where I'm just like, yeah, you saw Girls of Dragon Tattoos recently. But you know, I'm here for I think the cast is largely made up a very talented people. Love Christine Branski, love Mrs Bird and Paddington and Paddington two of course. But I mean, it's just I'm not a big musical person, so I just am not. And really it boils down to the story making no sense. They reverse engineered the story based on Abbas songs and it you can tell. The whole thing feels like a fever dream. It really does. I think it does work better as a staged production. As a movie. Don't think it works as well, But yeah, I don't know. I do think it does have some things going for it. It's largely about female friendship. It's largely about a strong bond between mother and daughter. It mostly promotes sex positivity. Uh, it is about like generally, men like embracing their roles as fathers. And even though they don't know, like even which one of them it is, they're all like, yeah, i'll be your dad, I'll be one third of your daddy. I'll take the stomach. So yeah, I think it. It promotes some positive messages. It's on the right track. It's on the generally, it's on the right track. And then unfortunately a blockbuster movie in two thousand and eight being on the right track is better than most movies. True, does it improve upon any of that and take it even further and more progressive in the sequel? No, I would not say that, But see it for yourselves, everybody. Can you believe The Doubt only made fifty million dollars at the box office? I mean it did over double its budgets. I'm gonna say I'm surprised it made that much. Um, it's mostly me that is at least ten million dollar ours is me and my mom going to seat out all the time, like fucking psychics, really working through some ship that that winter. Yeah, I don't know. Well, let's see if it passes the Bechdel tests, shall we. It's a really weak drum roll? Can you hear the drum roll? Fernando, there it is. It's not in this movie. It should be. It's the best, Okay, So yeah, I would say the song where Sophie and her friends Alie and Lisa are talking about being the greatest bestist mates because they all name themselves and they're never seen again, but they don't talk about men. So I would say that passes the Beckte test. There's a few different combos of passing. It passes between Donna and Sophie, it passes between Donna and Rosie and Tanya Um, and I think a couple other combos here. Now, largely the conversations are about men. It's like, okay, who's my daddy or who's my daughter's daddy, or who's who's anybody's daddy. The first couple I caught where between two and four line exchanges. It's not like grabbing long conversations that aren't about because this is sort of a you know, male rooted story, and even when there are good things going on, but it does pass in terms of it being I mean, it's needs should be said. It is an extremely Caucasian movie. Um in Greece. Again, I'm so it is. It's very shitty and typical for for that to be the case. The diversity is to Burnetts. It's literally yeah, it's like, oh, someone not have flesh colored hair. The young guy who Christie Bransky's character sleeps with whets with is the only person of color who has lines. Yeah, I think that that is true. Again, if I need to get my notes back out, let me just remind you what his line is now, Baby, he does have a lot. At least it's a hell of a line. Yes, but yeah, it's a it's a super right movie, which sucks. It does pass the Bechtel test. It has that, surprisingly not as much as you think it would considering it's all female leads. Yeah. Mostly, um, but now they are all talking about either Sam or Bill or Harry or I will chalk that up less to the movie being too male oriented and more to the movie having literally zero scenes that aren't exactly forwarding the plot. There's no room to breathe in this entire script. No, because they're like, we need to have five hundred songs. Like the volume of songs is unnecessary so much. I feel like I would love to crunch some numbers and see, like I feel like I had twice the number of songs, like twice the number of songs you would normally like, Yes, Phantom of the Opera moment pounds. There's nine hundred songs in this movie, and they're all strung together by like no more than two lines of dialogue. Yeah of Meryl streeps like, well, that song was great, and Christine Branski is like, yeah, but you know it would be even better the next So they're all humping. I um, I think I feel like really oppressed by you being anti hump. I can't handle that word. I'm so sorry hump culture is allowing Jamie, you hacker. I'm personally a humper. I have to the dry home. So you hate marriage. I hate the word up your phone dry. Let's write the movie on our nipple scale, shall we? Uh? We rate it based on its portrayal and representation of women zero to five nipples. I'm gonna I'm like between a two and a two and a half on this one. I think, because even though the movie does have a lot of things going for it in terms of it's like celebration of female friendship and mother daughter relationships and sex positivity, things like that. It is the story deeply rooted and a woman desperately needing a man to make her feel more complete. It is rooted in every female character that we spend any significant amount of screen time with ending up with a man. There is a glimpse of queerness in this movie, but it's so I would say, glossed over that it may as well not even be there, Like it's I mean, I wish it was explored much more as far as like character development goes. Like for the movie being about Sophie, she's the protagonist, she's got the main desire and it's her goal that is pushing the story forward, we don't really get to know that much about her, and like her character development is all wonky because again the story makes no sense and her reactions often make no sense because they have to fit in with whatever abba song they decided was next. So I feel, like I would say, I mean Mike countered boy, there be that no characters are super well developed, to the point where the male characters are not developed at all. We know, like one thing about them, and it's that they had sex with Meryl Streep twenty years ago and they can't get over it. Like that's so I think that that's more that it's not a well written story than anything else. But yeah, yeah, so yeah, two and a half nipples from I'll give one to Donna, I'll give one to Christine Baransky, and I'll give one half nipple to Mrs Bird specifically in Paddington Too. I'm gonna go I'm gonna be generous here, and I'm gonna give it a three. Obviously, there's virtually no diversity in this movie whatsoever, but it is nice to see, uh story that Fourth Flaws is very empowering towards not just female sexuality, but older women. Uh Like it's okay for older women to be single, to have sex, just not themes you see very often in movies. I think it's really art because who is the prime audience for this movie is like older women, and so having a movie that uplifts them, I feel like almost every time that's done, those types of movies tend to do really well when they're like servicing their audience. So yeah, and then and I agree with everything you're saying this movie it's so and it's just so fun, and Meryl is so good and Christine Barrantki, that's three nipples right there, she has to but there that we know of, I'm giving all three of my nipples to Christine Baranski because I feel like she has an extra like a spare tire. You know, how many nips would you give it? I would say I would give it a full four if there was a single non white woman that got more than one line. But I feel like you can't talk about women and not include not white women at all, So I would say maybe three only because every woman excepts fucking Amanda Cypherd, who we've already said is insufferable in this movie, has also a very established career, like Christine's got a ship ton of money, fucking Mrs Birds, an accomplished cookbook author. People recognize her. Meryl Streep owns her own hotel and works a power drill. Yeah, we get to see her like with a and like yeah with a drill, yeah, And then yeah, it's just every woman in this like has a job that she's good at and that's I don't think, and they're not depict it as like workhorse, bitter old hags still get drunk and fuck and they have fun. And it seems like Meryl Streep genuinely enjoys being marooned on Funck Island and she likes it. She loves it okay a lot think where she is clearly good at her job, but she also seems to care very little that her hotel is fucking busted. She smells like she got money from somewhere that's not the hotel for sure. That moment where like the foundation her hoteltel cracks in half. She's like, whoof wild? And they just keep singing. She literally cheers al right because it's the spring of aphrodite, and also like you know, engineer to rein in your old fucking house, like your foundations cracked are so fucked. It's like that is I think the beginning of the end for this. It's like a multimillion dollar mistakes. And she's like, well, it's Greece, and so let's say the name of I'm gonna give all three nipples to um Pierce Brasna because I just feel really bad for him. He really did give it his all in this movie, and it was a miss. It was not it was and it's obviously not good, and I feel really bad about that. He tries something new, something I do. It is very fun to watch an actor really swing for the fences and miss see Ashton Kutcher in jobs like you can tell you this is the role of a lifetime and it's like you are you damn well, Bola, thank you so much for being here. Oh yeah, I love talking about mom with She would have been doing this anyways in the streets. I'll just text Jamie where could people follow you online? Do you have anything he'd like to plug? Yeah, you can follow me at meal or a meal momster and anything. And um, I have a podcast called Punch of the Jam's great. Yeah. We every week pick up part different song and then remake it with a friend of the cast. De yeah, Demmie and I and um, it's good. I'm gonna say it's good. Yeah, it's fucking good. Damn it. It's a good. Actually, I my mom gave me when she figured out what a podcast was last week. She's like, you can sign me up for five, and she was like, I can't handle more than five, So I gave her. I gave her a few, but I gave her a punch up the jam and she is loving it. I love my new fans to be first, she's only listened to the episode that I'm on, but she's she's like, favorite episodes. It was so fine that she was like, they're fun. I like them. And then she Google imaged you both. Thank you because my voice sounds so annoying. She's like, what does she look like? She's like, I just wanted to picture what the room was like. I love her shout out Joey Well. You can follow the Bechtel Cast on social media at bectel Cast, and you can sign up for our Matreon. It's five dollars a month and you get to bonus episodes like, for instance, Doubt Yes, Oh Doubt August It's it's my birthday month and we're doing Doubt and Hackers Leo, Seasoned Baby. And you can go to our website bechtel cast dot com. If you go to the store there, you can buy all of our merch We've got t shirts, we've got mugs, we've got notebookson, feminist icon cartoons of us. Oh, feminist icon Alfred Molina, which reminds me Alfred Molina could have played any of the Dad's better than any of the Dad Give Me a Deep Roy and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory Umpa loompa Style three Alfred Alfred Molina's Oh my god, I just had a panic attack. Anyways, Uh that's the show. Why were there any cats in this movie? Yeah? What's with the black cat? I know? But anyway, well, thanks for listening, everybody. Here we go again, Fernando. We're all dancing queens and we're other stuff. Okay, bye,