120. Debra Whitman: How Mindset and Relationships Shape Midlife Health and Happiness

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to the Wild Drop with me, Amber Burger, a podcast for Wellness Meet Simplicity, empowering you to own your wellness, starting at home.
[SPEAKER_00]: Each episode we dive into things we wish we were warned about, and explore practical, street forward strategies designed for busy days like you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whether you're juggling meetings, running errands, or managing family life, I'm here to help sift through the noise and show you how integrating wellness into your daily routine can be simple and stress-free.
[SPEAKER_00]: find out how by tuning in to today's well-drop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the well-drop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Today's conversation is an important one because we're talking about aging, but not in the way that we've been taught to think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So many women hear words like midlife or aging and immediately think decline, loss or limitation.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what if this chapter is actually about clarity, power, and possibility?
[SPEAKER_00]: My guest today is Deborah Whitman, Chief Public Policy Officer at AARP, an author of the second 50.
[SPEAKER_00]: Answers to the seven big questions of midlife and beyond.
[SPEAKER_00]: Deborah is an economist, aging expert, and one of the leading voices shaping how our country thinks about longevity, health span, financial security, and purpose in the second half of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's worked across the U.S. Senate, the Congressional Research Service, and now leads research and policy efforts to impact over 125 million Americans.
[SPEAKER_00]: In this episode, we're breaking down why mid-life is not a decline, but a reset.
[SPEAKER_00]: What women gain in this chapter that society often overlooks
[SPEAKER_00]: and what AARP is actually doing that more women need to know about.
[SPEAKER_00]: How to design a life that supports how you want to live as you age.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a conversation about reframing aging, reclaiming agency, and stepping into midlife with confidence instead of fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's dive in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for being with us on the well drop today, Deb.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, Amber.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to talk to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is such an important and powerful conversation that many women need to hear.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you are actually writing your book and you've spent your career studying aging from an economic policy and human perspective, what was a biggest lie that we've been told about aging that really surprised you, especially entering midlife.
[SPEAKER_01]: The biggest one is that aging is all bad, that it's always a kind of decline, it despair, and misery, and as you said, I lead our research.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when we actually ask people what it's like in their second half of life, we actually hear a lot of positive remarks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so even along we know, we know our health declines as we age.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if we ask people in their early life and middle life, how would you rate your health, it's actually lower than when we ask people in their 70s and over.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think a piece of that is kind of expectations, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We expect to be perfectly healthy and when we're,
[SPEAKER_01]: when we're younger, and we're not always, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We have other health conditions.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we expect to be perfectly unhealthy, when we're in our later life and have a good health and are able to clear third-rank kids and are able to get out of that easily and do all the things that we want to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: We look at our health sort of differently with our expectations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting like the second 50 from what I've heard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm 45 so it's coming up soon, but I have a lot of them in their early 50s and they all say especially women like 50s and new 30 like they just feel there's like the sense of this like light and I call it like the veil that lives like I know like harmonically when estrogen lowers there is this lifting so you really become like your true authentic self you kind of like shed the layers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Within you, did you find that in your research at all?
[SPEAKER_01]: I have absolutely, we're actually, are at least happy in our middle life and our most happy leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what do you think most happy when we're really young and really, you know, much older, unfortunately, you know, mental health, I'm a kid and you know, it's just, it's one in a crisis now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not quite the same level as it used to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know we're actually the least happy in the middle of the life and I do think it's part of, you know, back what I was saying about health, sort of a sense of perspective and it's a sense of putting off other people's perspectives and having the ability to sort of make choices for yourself in a new way, having a sense of who you are.
[SPEAKER_01]: that you've grown into over the course of your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, again, I hear from many people, and I wrote this book because I was about to turn 50.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to know what happens in this whole second half of life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so many of us planned for the first and then sort of get to the second, and we're like, what, whether it might be this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: And whole on their period, where we can do amazing things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, so I think that's what you're hearing is it's not a Renaissance, but a recognition.
[SPEAKER_01]: that for many people there's a lot of things that happen in the second half.
[SPEAKER_00]: And most people think like what is like the term midlife to you because when I ever I like to use it because I don't prefer for me like there's a focus on like menopause, perimenopause but the word pause like does not resonate for me because I think of everything as like vibrant and lively like what is the time frame for you when you're thinking about like that challenging midlife part.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I called it the second 50, just to acknowledge the fact that we as an organization have a membership that's based on 15 other, although anybody can join, and again, that there is this whole other potential second half of time, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, life will look differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you probably have different responsibilities in the first half, but there's these opportunities to be thinking about these different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Amber, you know, this well that, you know, not all 50 worlds are the same, not all 40 worlds are the same, not all 60 or 70 or 80 worlds are the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't define things necessarily by age and my work.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the things we do in Oregon are going to affect us when we're older, being, you know, putting money aside for retirement or the healthy behaviors that we do earlier in life, all of those things sort of add up over time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't I don't I don't get by a year or yeah, I like them because I think we're kind of a mindset of what's you know still there's time in front of me What what how do we want to live and so much time to like the second 50 like we're living older and older these days Right like most likely we should all live into our hundreds hopefully so it's almost like 50 I think back in the debut like oh like it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: already like the roller toilet paper is like in a start ending soon, where if anything, it's kind of like an such an opportunity to like plan ahead for like so many more adventures that you want to have or whatever it might be, like give so much like ahead of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think most people look at it or they use to actually like in a negative way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like even ARP, like oh, it's already time for ARP, like I think it all needs a rebrand of like
[SPEAKER_00]: What's wrong with that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you're so young.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like actually this is about like taking charge and like taking this opportunity to think about these amazing things that you have in front of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't agree more.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, we used to be the American Association of retired people and 20 years ago, we're like not everybody is retired in their 50s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not even people, everybody's retired in our 70s.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're just AARP, and I loved the way you said about the sense of time and opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also built on a life of experience, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, we don't have that in our 20s.
[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't.
[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't hit highs and lows and rally behind both.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this sense of experience that we have is kind of unique in this point of your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And more and more people are understanding that
[SPEAKER_01]: opens up doors to do more creative things because they kind of know what works and my doesn't work for them in their lives and in the world, it opens up times for opportunities to share your wisdom with others to teach and also to continue to learn and so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, again, I'm excited to be 50's.
[SPEAKER_01]: Five.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was best saying I'm the 56.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was claiming my role right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I earned those years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm excited for the next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think it gives you an opportunity to have perspective too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you were a woman in your 30s listening right now, what is one decision that just like quickly comes to mind that you can make today around it could be her health.
[SPEAKER_00]: Money lifestyle that would dramatically change her experience for
[SPEAKER_00]: the second, 15.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll give, can I give a more than one?
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, on the wealth is understand because women are paid less, you know, over the course of our life, we earn less, which means we are gonna have, and we live longer, we live about six years longer than men.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of those things sort of add up that we have to be really thinking about both our expenses and our savings and trying to make sure that we're putting a money aside for that future.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're gonna probably need it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's that's one and it the earlier you start the more compound interest will go and so So saving for your future and I know that is hard Especially with the expenses are what they are and groceries are up and everything else so
[SPEAKER_01]: That's point one, easy to say hard to do, but then more we can do it automatically the better.
[SPEAKER_01]: The second is, you know, there's lots of things we can do to improve our health as we age and doing those early, really makes a difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we know if we do sort of the healthy habits of eating right and exercising, maintaining a healthy body weight, not drinking too much, not smoking those five habits alone, will give us an extra decade of life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, a decade, really.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even if you just do one, you get a couple of years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so those are the types of habits and behaviors that we can build into our lives that can make a real difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's more to if you wanna talk about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love to, I mean, so interesting thinking about the not drinking and focusing on one, it's like that younger generation, definitely in their like 20s and early 30s, they are much more in tune with it than I think, maybe the leader generations.
[SPEAKER_00]: So be really interesting to see actually over time, like how their lifestyle habits, hopefully show that they will have more longevity in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and even things like dropping a smoking over time has had a huge impact on people's health and longevity.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, this sort of cultural shifts, I think make a huge difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's funny, AARP always gets dismissed for being for old people like I don't know why, but I think to me 50 is really young and even 60 is still young like there's like sort of like a reframe here what are like some initiatives because I think it's actually like a very amazing organization that how you're leading women in midlife that might surprise them to learn about like the ways that they can utilize AARP to help them for the planning of this second 50 stage.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I, I, I love working at ARP, because I get to learn so much and do so much and there's, there's so much going on that I really encourage people, even if you're not a member sort of explore a website because we're a communication company so lots of articles information things like.
[SPEAKER_01]: how to help care for somebody that you love if you're a caregiver, and what in my teams does research on how to reduce our risk for cognitive decline and dementia, and what we know about having good sleep in the exercise and diet, all of these things that can help her brain health.
[SPEAKER_01]: My team also does research on understanding people who are going through menopause because as you know, there's just so little information out there for people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we did a survey that found that that four out of five women between 40s and 80s say that there are menopause symptoms interfered with their lives.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one in 10 of those said it was just debilitating.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, we do that to try to raise awareness and to have these conversations about what people are going through.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then lastly, I guess, we talked about saving for retirement.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the areas that I'm really proud of is that we've been able to get programs started in people have to 15 states now.
[SPEAKER_01]: that help people save through their paycheck in an easy way.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how does our workers have an employer that doesn't offer them the opportunity to save?
[SPEAKER_01]: And these programs allow people to opt out if they don't have the resources at the time, but at least allow people...
[SPEAKER_01]: who may work part timeally or in for a small business who doesn't have a retirement plan, who have an opportunity to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're an information resource, we're trying to change policy across the country along and help educate people on what they can do themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think the education piece is so powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just was at, I just spoke on a wellness panel last night.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were talking about relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that, I always say, I discussed the things no one warns us about, but I was shocked when I saw the statistic that the highest rates of divorce happen between 45 and 55 usually initiated by the woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a man came up after and he's like, you know what, I really appreciate it this conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm seeing so many of my friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he must have been in his 60s.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, a lot of relationships are getting broken.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what they're not realizing is it's not necessarily a relationship issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually a hormonal issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: But because the hormones are happening and as women were really just, we don't have the education.
[SPEAKER_00]: Neither do the doctors until now, like the times are changing all for the better.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that if we focused on managing the hormones first to see maybe that then would resolve any of those, like, in conflict that you're having.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you don't know about that, I write, which is fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I put up with this.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I want to keep putting up with this for the next 50 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, my kids have moved out and I get to think of what's important to me, or you just grow in different directions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yes, I do think it's a time of life where we have all kinds of hormonal emotions, but it's also a time of resetting and seeing when you're really taking a look at your future, what you want that future to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And are you finding that more women are feeling more empowered to actually do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I feel like historically back in the day, women, you know, are more at the homemakers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they never felt like they could use their voice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you see that there's a shift happening culturally?
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's culturally.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just had a movie for grownups event in Hollywood.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're even we're seeing, you know, Hollywood is a reflection on our culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been doing this for years and initially, you know, many of the stars would get the words that, oh, I'm embarrassed that ARP is getting this horn.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now people are saying, you know what, I'm doing my best work in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or my career took off in my 40s, 50s and 60s.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm, you know, getting this award in the Academy Award.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do think it's a that how we're looking at midlife and the and later life is really shifting in our society and people are taking a lot more on your ship of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think another thing that we're not always warned about is the caretaking aspect that happens, sort of like that sandwich generation reality where you're, you know, raising your kids or probably about maybe teenager age, but then also all of a sudden your parents start to be in a decline and you have to start
[SPEAKER_00]: being the caregiver of your parents all at the same time, which leads to an incredible amounts of stress.
[SPEAKER_00]: And usually we don't necessarily have a row map to know like what is the best way to care for our parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that AARP has done like a great job with that to help with like emotional financial logistical load for women.
[SPEAKER_00]: What would you say for somebody who's starting to think about this even in the planning stages before maybe their parents are starting
[SPEAKER_00]: of the best things to sort of think about and or to set themselves up for success.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yes, I think we should try that because a lot of times things happen very quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, we're just going on a business trip.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a call literally on the drive to the airport from my brother, hey, dad's not feeling so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the time I got back from the trip, my followers in the hospital and I was making arrangements to go out and try and help them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the speed of becoming a caregiver sometimes really takes people by surprise and and also unlike sort of having a kid where you know is coming for nine months, you can sort of prepare you know how long you're in it for
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of variability in what's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, so best laid plans don't always come in the sense of emergency.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, somebody trips and falls and breaks ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of support that they need instantly, and that's hard to plan for.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so first is empathy is understanding that you're not alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, we have 63 million people who are caregivers in the United States with that one and four people who are adults.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've always said if you are not a caregiver today, you probably were yesterday or you will be tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, just given the demographics.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we do have tons of resources if you go to ARP.
[SPEAKER_01]: dot born backslash caregiving that people can attest to and listen I do this professionally and try to help my parents plan but a lot of people don't don't want to think about things until they're actually needed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So knowing where resources are instead that they can be handy so that they're there when you when you need them and also tailor them to what the issue is.
[SPEAKER_01]: That the last thing I'll say is you know what a caregivers are balancing not just their kids
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're trying to change the conversation with employers to understand that it's not just new moms that they need to support, it's people who have to care through out their life and make that conversation easier for the worker and also easier for the employer, you know, how can I get some temporary flexibility or.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have caregiving leave at ARP.
[SPEAKER_01]: How can you help support me through this period that I'm going through so that I can be a stronger worker or take a break and come back to you as a stronger worker?
[SPEAKER_01]: Those conversations are really, really going to be important so that so many of us don't, don't lose our, our financial security and find their personal videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't have to choose.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's really important topic to cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: In your book, you do discuss seven big questions in midlife.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the seven big questions that people should be pondering?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it started with some, you know, basic questions like how on will I live, and I wanted to know the difference by being on because I'm a woman and because I have higher education and we know there's huge differences in life expectancy by, by where we live, all of those things, I wanted to know other basic question, how will I be healthy things that you touch on all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to know some practical things like how long I work or will I have enough money and finally I lived out some tough things that maybe I hadn't really thought about before things like will I lose my memory, you know, with the likelihood of cognitive decline, what can they do about it and and how will I die, which I think was my actual favorite chapter to write because I knew so little and I had so many questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, did you writing this book change any of your perspectives for anything?
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: It changed, well, I learned so much, especially talking to experts in even some things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I knew women live longer, but I didn't know why.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just had to a little bit about relationships earlier.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the key lessons that I took was an interview with a walldinger who runs the Harvard Study of Adult Development.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a Zen Buddhist.
[SPEAKER_01]: lovely lovely person and he looked in his survey of people in their 80s and he could see back years to what they were doing in their 50s and 60s and he wanted to know what's the difference between that.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did somebody who's healthy at 80 do in their 50s?
[SPEAKER_01]: And was it that they had low cholesterol or did they eat right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or did they exercise or all of the things that we normally talk about?
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone can pair that to people that were unhealthy in their 80s.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the biggest driver between the two groups was the quality of the relationships people have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was having close friends or family people you felt connected to.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's been a real lesson for me is, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: My kids are finally, or as a college, I finally have a little bit more time to like invest in my friends and make sure that that I'm taking care of my personal relationships in a way that will help my health going forward and make just life better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they say communities a huge driver for longevity and I think that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you can be blessed to live in an environment that naturally creates the sense of community, but also in the digital age, they do say loneliness is an epidemic, and people feel we're more technically connected than ever digitally, but more lonelyer than ever too, because it's so easy to just be at home beyond your phone and feel as if you were connected, but it's not a real connection.
[SPEAKER_00]: How did they actually break down what what was back then they probably weren't into the phones as much.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be interesting to see how that narrative is shifting as.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: They eat things are technology to connect, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw during the pandemic suddenly lots of people learned how to video chat with people that weren't able to
[SPEAKER_01]: be together.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of my best friends lives in Germany.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, we, we text often, but we also find, you know, an hour, sometimes two on a Sunday afternoon where she's holding clothes and I'm doing errands where we just sit and talk and catch up on everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so technology can both be a connector and a barrier to real, to really, really
[SPEAKER_00]: And speaking about lifespan because some people may not realize lifespan and health span or sometimes use interchangeably, but they're actually different.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you define the difference between health span and a lifespan?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so our lifespan is how long we live and our health span is how much of those years are healthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And while we've seen increases in lifespan, although there was a decrease in the United States even right before the pandemic, not all of those years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our health spin hasn't been increasing as fast as I would like to spend, which makes every year we've added hasn't been a healthy year.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a few healthy months.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so really our goal is, you know, to add more time, but to add more quality time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to be clear, you can have health conditions and still be happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to insult people with disabilities or people that don't have health issues, but I do want to say that there is ways to expand our health span, and that that should be the goal, not just we have longer lives, but we have longer in the health of your lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, still is so surprising to me, given how much money has been pumped into our health care
[SPEAKER_00]: increasing health span per se.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually there's like such a disconnect.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what will, um, I mean, now that wellness, I mean, it's a multi trillion dollar industry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious to see sort of what the next chapter will be written now that wellness is sort of like on the table in the conversation and things are evolving so quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hopefully that will help to increase health span as
[SPEAKER_01]: And then her scientists looking at ways that at the study level, we can increase health span.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know different types of animals have longer or shorter life spans or shorter health spans.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what can we welcome we learn from from that research that's applicable to humans.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm excited about the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still early days and you know, clinical trials have
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the promise is out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do need to make sure that everybody has access to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we already have huge differences in the number of years people live by income and by education.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, the people at the top of wealth live about a decade longer than people at the bottom.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to make sure that everybody lives along and healthy life as we develop these new scientific discoveries.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the best part is a lot of times because I think you said that even when they were checking out the daily habits of the 80 year olds, what were they doing in their 50s like daily habits is a huge driver for longevity.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes it, you know, a lot of doctors will quote that 80% of longevity is due to lifestyle.
[SPEAKER_00]: But people forget that lifestyle doesn't have to necessarily mean medications that if you actually build this strong lifestyle starting from your 20s and 30s, for me, I think of it as evolving your habits every decade as you evolve an age, so should your habits, so they're kind of moving along with time.
[SPEAKER_00]: that that should hopefully create this solid foundation for you to work from.
[SPEAKER_00]: And most of these habits are technically free, but we just sort of, for whatever reason money doesn't get behind that, because it's not glossy, but that those are the foundations, so hopefully set people up who may not have access to medical care in the same way as someone else.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a decade apart is
[SPEAKER_00]: that's pretty job-jopping for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's job-jopping and tragic, honestly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, but every Friday I do a Pilates class in my partner in it is in her late 70s.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she does two or three of these a week, so she kicks my butt.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she also takes a painting class.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go see one of her gallery shows recently.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, she is a retired professor.
[SPEAKER_01]: The inspiration I get from that is not to just invest health today, but I'm going to have to keep it up and make sure that I'm using my body and using my mind and staying connected, I think those are.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's your lessons that I get every Friday.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and speaking about mindset like what are a few steps that we can take to help improve our mindset Even just around aging and make it a more positive exciting curious kind of time So let me let me be clear the the number one thing you can do to live longer and healthier is to change your mindset Which seems counter-intuitive, but I'll extend my so
[SPEAKER_01]: If you ask people, you know, what do you picture when you think of an older person and if the the gut is that it's it's a negative time so it's if you think that it's going to be a time of decline and the Cropitude and despair you actually live seven and a half years shorter.
[SPEAKER_01]: than if you think of it as a time of growth and opportunity and wisdom and ability to get that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Seven and a half years at number, like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I told you, that's almost all those healthy habits can you can.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is huge.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's not just you're changing your mind, but you're changing your sense of what's possible for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we know that it's also not just how long you live, it's you have lower rates of cardiovascular disease, your health span is actually longer, even the cognitive abilities and even brain scan show that there's more brain mass for people with a positive eat one age.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is like the best thing you can do for your health is to look at aging as an opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's because you open more doors for yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you expect, like, I'm be sitting in a chair all alone in front of the TV and that is how you live your life because that's how you think that aging is going to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're going to live shorter.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to live a selfie.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if I, if I wanted to tell you listeners one thing to do is to catch yourself every time you say oh that was a senior moment or until old for this or I can't believe my birthday is coming up and really embrace it and and sort of redefine those moments as potentials and opportunity and compliment yourself on how many years you've lived not how old you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, take finally moments to be a little bit more grateful and finding the joy.
[SPEAKER_00]: being present for, I think, just even the time that we have so far and just enjoy those good years and not to assume necessarily that there's bad years ahead.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the power of self-talk is so huge, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's an energy in that clearly and it's pretty wild to think how that can actually impact your life span.
[SPEAKER_00]: I never thought of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, honestly, I've all of the studies that I did and I looked at times.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's across different countries and
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been proven from lots of different directions, like I said, that was both physical to the brain, to the heart, all of these things are influenced by how you think about age.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the power of the mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's so much to dig in on the brain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't even think we know how powerful it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know people are researching it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully that data will come out soon so that we can respect the power of our brain, too, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Becka Levy at Yale has done a lot of this work and she's an amazing animal lovely human being, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you have to boil everything down because there's so many things to think about for the second 50, what would be like your top three things that really I guess for you, even resonated for you as a woman as you are be searching this book on how to navigate the second 50 with confidence.
[SPEAKER_00]: What would they be?
[SPEAKER_01]: So top two is is what we just talked about change how you're thinking about aging.
[SPEAKER_01]: there's one thing you can do for yourself and your own health.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually for society too, you know, if we all thought of it as a team of opportunity, a lot of that, you know, sort of ages restrictions on people would also fall away.
[SPEAKER_01]: The second is this conversation we had about relationships, understanding that your people are just as important as as your food or your exercise that that, you know, maybe do all three together is probably the best thing that you can do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then lastly, you know, I wrote the book for the second 50, but I started it with the story that I has been at 48 massive heart attack while hiking by himself and if it wasn't for a bolder mountain rescue to reason down the mountain and an amazing cardiologist to get some stents in his heart, he would not have made it to his second 50 and so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I encourage people to think and plan for their future, but also really live for today and understand that life is precious every day that we have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're almost going to take the last, um, I always love to, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: close out our conversations by asking what's a one drop a one the solicitor you like to leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just need to be free.
[SPEAKER_00]: You gave us three, but I guess my real question then would just be sort of what is like next on tap for you like what is like what are some burning questions because this one obviously opened up Pandora's box to lead into creating the second 50 what are some other questions you have going on in the mind of Deb.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I loved the research for this and learning and, you know, not to make it all intimidating because they're sort of hidden in back, but there's a thousand footnotes in my book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and so I'm still just continuing to see, you know, how we know about aging is changing.
[SPEAKER_01]: and talk to people that know more about issues than I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of a still life goals is to continue to grow and now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then on my day job at ARP, we care about the future of social security and Medicare and retirement savings and all the things that are going to make that second half of life easier.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really my job to make sure that
[SPEAKER_01]: that we continue to push to make sure that people can live a good second half of all of us, not just the current retired generations, but future generations as long.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I love the like shift in the narrative of, you know, to be just excited about aging because I actually just yesterday was messaging and putting together I wanted to a financial wellness gathering of women because I think that these are things that unless a woman is actually working she's a little bit naturally more in tune with financials versus if someone is not working and relies on their partner for the income or just not thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: in the same way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we really want to empower women of like things that you need to think about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things that you should know about whether you're like the bread one or not, doesn't matter, but you should play an equal role in just having financial responsibilities of knowing where things are, just starting with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, oh, that's morbid.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, nope, that's the reframe.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's we're going to reframe.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually empowering.
[SPEAKER_01]: And empowering.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, it may not be, you know, the end of the person that manages those,
[SPEAKER_01]: traveling, or maybe, you know, there's lots of different reasons that we all need to be empowered to have control of our financial lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad just to be aware, we're all of the things are, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think I've heard too many stories where things just happen out of nowhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like you said, appreciate today, you don't know what tomorrow brings, but also plan for tomorrow be as responsible as you can.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so in the element of you just don't know what tomorrow brings,
[SPEAKER_00]: both parties should know if you have to in the household where everything is and I think a lot of times you know naturally one person kind of manages things and the other so it's about everyone sort of just knowing where everything is to be on the same page.
[SPEAKER_01]: And making sure you're you know where you think you are planning for the future too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that too, right, and then it can lead to those conversations.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people like to avoid them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I think women have been far along period, sort of disenfranchised or discouraged from feeling that they should could be able to plan for their future financially.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm excited that you're going to deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to be talking about one of those shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a great way to
[SPEAKER_01]: to help people live throughout their lives, not just as age.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will definitely report back.
[SPEAKER_00]: So where can everyone find you, Deb?
[SPEAKER_00]: And where can we buy the second 50?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's a must be bought by the second 50 at your local bookstore or online, your favorite bookseller.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of the proceeds go to aARP foundation that helps low-income older adults.
[UNKNOWN]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: So you could feel good about buying a coffee for yourself and your friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: A little trick, it is a choose your own adventure book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I told you about all the questions, but you don't have to read it from or back.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're having some caregiving concerns about memory, just go straight to that doctor, if that would be helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then find me at Dr. Deb whipping.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm starting to get on Instagram, Amber.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm on LinkedIn.
[SPEAKER_01]: And AARP.org has all of those resources that I talked about today.
[SPEAKER_00]: great well thank you so much for everything that you do for all of us and especially for women it's really it's such powerful and such needed work so thank you for all of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being on the well-drawn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for having me this is a great conversation Amber thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.