Episode 174: Scaling Regenerative Practices from Micro-Farms to Row Crops with Briana Bosch

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Hi friends, this is John.

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Welcome to the Region of

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Agriculture podcast, where we

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have all kinds of fun

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conversations related to growing

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things,

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growing healthy things, growing

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healthy people, growing healthy

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soil,

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growing healthy plants.

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I'm delighted today to be joined

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by Bree from Blossom and Branch,

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who I encourage you to check out

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on YouTube and Instagram for all

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the awesome work that she's

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doing,

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both scaling up and scaling down

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these

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concepts and ideas around

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growing healthier soil and

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plants and people.

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Bree, thank you so much for

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joining me for a day and for

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being willing to have this

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conversation.

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Give us some context for the

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scope of all the fun you have.

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Yeah, thanks for having me,

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John. I've been a fan of the

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podcast for many years.

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It's informed a lot of what I

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do, actually.

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So yeah, I've got two farms.

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So one is what we'd probably

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consider a micro farm.

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It's two acres in Denver, just

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outside of Denver, Colorado.

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And that is a flower farm.

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So that's the reason why it's

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small.

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And flowers are cultivated,

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grown, harvested,

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pretty much primarily all by

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hand.

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And so scaling that up much

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beyond two acres with one person

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is difficult.

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Then we also have in Minnesota,

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we have 180 acres in corn and

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soybeans. And that is a almost a

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century farm in our family.

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So just two years to go and

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pretty conventionally farmed.

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We've started taking chunks of

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that and converting it over to

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regenerative. So

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adding a little bit each year as

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we kind of learn more about

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these processes.

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So it's been really interesting

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adjusting and scaling things

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both up and down and seeing what

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works in different climates and

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lots of different fun

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experiences.

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And then you also do something

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that I think there are a number

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of there are a number of farmers

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who do this well, but many more

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who don't even attempt it at

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all. You talk to people, you

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talk to lots of people.

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So tell us a bit about that.

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Yes. Yeah.

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Just, you were just talking

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about the conference circuit and

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I just got home from that as

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well.

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Lots of this, that's kind of how

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I started. I never started out

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being like, I wanted to teach

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people how to do this.

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It really became,

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I was learning how to do all

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these regenerative practices.

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I was scaling them down to a

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scale where I felt I could do it

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on my market farm and

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In doing that, I was showing it.

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It's just part of social media

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and being an entrepreneur now.

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I was showing it, and I got a

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lot of questions.

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How do you do this?

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How can I do this?

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Tell me more about this.

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Lots of interest.

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And so I just started to tell

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people what I was doing and

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teach them along the way the

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things that I failed at, the

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things I succeeded at.

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And in that,

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I gained quite a significant

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audience of people who were

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interested in very similar

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things.

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Just from there, I do have a

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background in journalism.

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I have a background in

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education.

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I have a master's in marketing

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actually in business.

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And so I knew that maintaining

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that...

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I kind of wish you wouldn't have

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said all of those things because

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now everybody's going to think

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that it's out of reach for them.

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It is out of reach.

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Well, and what's funny is I

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don't even feel like I use it.

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I got my MBA because I thought I

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was actually going to work in

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the corporate world and then I

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went into farming.

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Marketing is actually not

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I think really what farmers need

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to be doing is truly

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more branding and authenticity.

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Marketing is really a lot of

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numbers and data analysis and

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who's my target market and all

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of this stuff, which I really

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honestly don't do.

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Don't tell my teachers from

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business school that.

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But what I have found is really

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important. And the major thing

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that I did learn in school was

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how important authenticity is.

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Because once you lose that,

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once you lose

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trust with your customer, once

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you lose

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the true voice of your soul.

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it really

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cheapens what you're doing.

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It really,

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it thins it out.

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And so what I've found, you

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know, in growing an audience,

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I'm almost, I think across

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platforms, I'm at almost 1 .5

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million now, but I get asked all

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the time, like,

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will you promote this product?

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Will you sell this?

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You know, daily, I get probably

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10 or 15 emails,

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right? Turn down $50 ,000 a

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product offering last year.

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And I do that because

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to me that

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if I start hawking all this

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stuff that you really don't

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need, you know, that you really

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don't need to grow

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regeneratively, it really

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cheapens the message.

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And that resonates with people.

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So people do know they can trust

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me. You know, when I say like

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this worked, this doesn't work.

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They know that I'm not doing it

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just because I'm getting paid to

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do it.

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What's what is

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this almost sounds like an

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elementary question, but I think

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it's important one for us to

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talk about.

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What is authenticity exactly?

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I mean, there's different

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answers to that.

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But one of the one of the things

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that occurs to me is

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the kind

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of the I don't know quite the

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right word for this, but the

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social media presence that most

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people present is curated.

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It's curated to be the best

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versions of themselves.

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And there

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is an aspect of authenticity

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that I believe to be authentic

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also requires a degree of

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vulnerability.

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There's sometimes you can show

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the

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comedy of when things don't go

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well.

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But sometimes learning from

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experience is painful

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and communicating that

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authentically and just putting

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it out there is like, yeah, this

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really hurt

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hurt financially.

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It hurt.

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Otherwise

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is something that

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is, I think, part of perhaps, at

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least for me, one of the most

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difficult things.

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about being authentic, but also

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one of the most necessary.

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I totally agree with you.

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I think authenticity has a lot

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to do with, you know, evolution

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as well of yourself and

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evolution of the practices and

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being open and transparent about

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that. I personally struggle

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quite a bit with.

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with that piece of it as well.

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I mean, I do show failures.

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I mean, as you said, I kind of

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tried to do it in a comedic way.

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Like,

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look what actually happens when

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I'm trying to graze my sheep on

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the market.

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It's a comedy of all these

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things that go wrong, right?

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But it is difficult because

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social media also tends

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to reward

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is success. And it tends to

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reward these very curated type

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of things. I think that's

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changing a little bit.

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I do think that's changing.

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I think people are leaning more

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into the reality with AI

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generation and all this stuff.

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I think now people are like, OK,

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now show me real humans and real

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failures.

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But it's a struggle for sure.

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And of course, anyone getting

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into regenerative

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practices is going to experience

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those failures because it's so

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foreign to a lot of us who've

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been doing this for any period

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of time.

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there's no real guidebook to,

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you know, what to do in X, Y, Z

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situation. So for sure, we've

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had our share of failures.

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And sometimes those things end

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up well,

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you know, and we share that too.

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But like, yeah, we weren't able

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to get our cover crop in when we

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wanted to last year in our corn

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that we were interplanting.

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And therefore, we had to drone

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it in and we drone it in a month

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later than we should have.

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And, but that ended up actually

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working really, really well.

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It wasn't our plan, you know,

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but I do try to be authentic.

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But for sure, I think it's

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something that

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all of us could work on because

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it helps the regenerative

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movement, I think when we are

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honest about it.

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When you mentioned the

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appeal or kind of the framing

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that is desired by short form

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social media content to really

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grab attention.

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And in this world of where we're

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now seeing this rapid just

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explosion of AI -generated

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00:07:52,019 --> 00:07:53,980
content, are you seeing more of

292
00:07:53,980 --> 00:07:55,800
a shift to people engaging more

293
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,720
deeply with long -form content?

294
00:07:57,839 --> 00:07:58,639
And I just,

295
00:07:59,339 --> 00:08:00,139
for myself,

296
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,779
the way my life is,

297
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,699
I don't have a lot of space in

298
00:08:05,699 --> 00:08:06,500
my life for listening.

299
00:08:06,660 --> 00:08:08,459
So I abandoned listening years

300
00:08:08,459 --> 00:08:09,259
ago.

301
00:08:09,620 --> 00:08:11,500
already. If people send me

302
00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:13,120
podcasts or YouTube clips,

303
00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:14,620
I'll get them transcribed.

304
00:08:14,779 --> 00:08:15,860
I'll read the transcript because

305
00:08:15,860 --> 00:08:16,899
I can read the content.

306
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,509
If it's truly considered high

307
00:08:18,509 --> 00:08:19,529
value content,

308
00:08:20,110 --> 00:08:22,050
I can read it in a quarter of

309
00:08:22,050 --> 00:08:23,069
the time that it takes to listen

310
00:08:23,069 --> 00:08:23,870
or probably less.

311
00:08:25,420 --> 00:08:27,399
And so that kind of by default,

312
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,040
the high value content that

313
00:08:30,509 --> 00:08:31,870
people share and really highly

314
00:08:31,870 --> 00:08:33,409
endorse is long form and not

315
00:08:33,409 --> 00:08:34,610
short form for the most part.

316
00:08:35,259 --> 00:08:36,679
I'm exactly on the same page

317
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,220
with you. I don't have time, you

318
00:08:38,220 --> 00:08:39,120
know, and I feel bad because I

319
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,259
follow fellow creators and

320
00:08:41,259 --> 00:08:42,879
garden and farmers on YouTube,

321
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,299
but I never watch the content

322
00:08:44,299 --> 00:08:45,700
because it's the same.

323
00:08:45,860 --> 00:08:47,379
I literally just don't have time

324
00:08:47,379 --> 00:08:48,480
to sit here and watch half an

325
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:49,899
hour of a movie or video.

326
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:51,299
But I know a lot of people do.

327
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:52,440
I mean, clearly there's people

328
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:53,799
who are watching them and do

329
00:08:53,799 --> 00:08:55,360
learn that way or they want to

330
00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,440
see these things in action.

331
00:08:57,680 --> 00:08:58,759
I mean, maybe for people who are

332
00:08:58,759 --> 00:09:00,139
more experienced, like, OK, I

333
00:09:00,139 --> 00:09:01,740
know what it looks like to plant

334
00:09:01,740 --> 00:09:02,960
a cover crop or I know what it

335
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:03,860
looks like to

336
00:09:04,180 --> 00:09:05,500
harvest corn, you know, but for

337
00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:06,360
a lot of people, they've never

338
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:07,819
seen that. And so that can be

339
00:09:07,819 --> 00:09:08,919
helpful for a lot of people.

340
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:09,759
But I'm the same.

341
00:09:09,759 --> 00:09:11,500
I give me a give me something.

342
00:09:11,659 --> 00:09:12,659
I'll do a podcast because I can

343
00:09:12,659 --> 00:09:14,559
listen to it while I'm while I'm

344
00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:15,360
doing something else.

345
00:09:16,759 --> 00:09:18,159
And and that's often the place

346
00:09:18,159 --> 00:09:19,000
where I have phone calls.

347
00:09:19,259 --> 00:09:20,480
My life seems to be filled with

348
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:21,580
phone calls instead of listening

349
00:09:21,580 --> 00:09:22,700
to conversations.

350
00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:26,379
But I like. So you responded to

351
00:09:26,379 --> 00:09:28,539
that question in kind of as a

352
00:09:28,539 --> 00:09:30,120
personal user. But do you have

353
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,720
any observations also from your

354
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,200
audience? How have how have your

355
00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,379
audience dynamics shifted?

356
00:09:37,990 --> 00:09:39,490
Um, you know, I would say that

357
00:09:39,490 --> 00:09:41,100
YouTube mean i'm just trying to

358
00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:42,519
put more information out on

359
00:09:42,519 --> 00:09:43,319
youtube because

360
00:09:44,179 --> 00:09:45,639
in terms of long form the

361
00:09:45,639 --> 00:09:48,220
information i can give in a half

362
00:09:48,220 --> 00:09:49,779
an hour video versus a 60 second

363
00:09:49,779 --> 00:09:51,419
reel with a however many

364
00:09:51,419 --> 00:09:53,679
character it's description it's

365
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:54,860
just never enough to really

366
00:09:54,860 --> 00:09:57,220
explain like it doesn't explain

367
00:09:58,090 --> 00:09:59,889
what a rhizosphere is, you know,

368
00:09:59,970 --> 00:10:01,029
it doesn't explain root

369
00:10:01,029 --> 00:10:02,529
exudates, you can't get into

370
00:10:02,529 --> 00:10:04,970
that really in 60 seconds in any

371
00:10:04,970 --> 00:10:05,769
meaningful way.

372
00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:07,909
So I have seen, you know, the

373
00:10:07,909 --> 00:10:09,169
people who are more serious and

374
00:10:09,169 --> 00:10:10,909
want to learn more about the

375
00:10:10,909 --> 00:10:11,830
regenerative practices

376
00:10:11,830 --> 00:10:13,990
themselves tend to migrate over

377
00:10:13,990 --> 00:10:15,389
to YouTube. So that's really,

378
00:10:15,809 --> 00:10:16,830
I feel like that audience is

379
00:10:16,830 --> 00:10:18,250
more of like the soil health,

380
00:10:18,750 --> 00:10:20,789
wanting to see the farming piece

381
00:10:20,789 --> 00:10:22,049
of it. And then

382
00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:23,860
Short form is more like, hey,

383
00:10:23,899 --> 00:10:24,820
look at these pretty flowers.

384
00:10:25,220 --> 00:10:26,039
OK, here's how we grew them.

385
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:26,980
If you want to learn about that,

386
00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:27,899
head over there.

387
00:10:27,659 --> 00:10:30,820
So I do try to connect them so

388
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:32,700
that it does drive people who do

389
00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:33,720
want to learn more somewhere

390
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:34,559
meaningful.

391
00:10:35,620 --> 00:10:36,740
But I don't always do that

392
00:10:36,740 --> 00:10:37,879
either. Sometimes I'm like, OK,

393
00:10:37,899 --> 00:10:38,919
here's a 10 second clip of

394
00:10:38,919 --> 00:10:41,379
something I don't have time to

395
00:10:41,379 --> 00:10:42,179
look

396
00:10:42,009 --> 00:10:43,379
at. Because it is very time

397
00:10:43,379 --> 00:10:45,039
consuming. And that's been the

398
00:10:45,039 --> 00:10:45,839
challenges.

399
00:10:46,319 --> 00:10:47,960
A lot of content creators just

400
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:48,759
create content.

401
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:49,519
That's all they do.

402
00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:52,240
I'm farming two farms.

403
00:10:52,659 --> 00:10:53,860
I have two young kids.

404
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,379
I just wrote the book.

405
00:10:58,139 --> 00:10:59,799
And I do content creation.

406
00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:01,019
So you

407
00:11:02,069 --> 00:11:03,169
get what you get, is what I tell

408
00:11:03,169 --> 00:11:03,969
people.

409
00:11:03,789 --> 00:11:05,450
On YouTube, they're like, can

410
00:11:05,450 --> 00:11:06,250
you adjust the volume?

411
00:11:06,330 --> 00:11:07,529
I'm like, no, I literally don't

412
00:11:07,529 --> 00:11:09,069
have time. I can turn up your

413
00:11:09,069 --> 00:11:09,870
volume on your thing.

414
00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:13,319
This is another aspect of

415
00:11:13,319 --> 00:11:14,399
authenticity.

416
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,080
One of the things that I've

417
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,759
noticed on different social

418
00:11:18,759 --> 00:11:21,430
channels is that the reality is

419
00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:23,009
we have these incredible devices

420
00:11:23,009 --> 00:11:24,409
today that we call smartphones

421
00:11:24,409 --> 00:11:25,850
that are really much more than

422
00:11:25,850 --> 00:11:26,649
just a phone.

423
00:11:27,710 --> 00:11:28,509
And

424
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,799
anyone can walk out into a field

425
00:11:31,139 --> 00:11:33,059
and record a short video clip

426
00:11:33,059 --> 00:11:34,159
about what they're seeing and

427
00:11:34,159 --> 00:11:35,019
what's happening and what's

428
00:11:35,019 --> 00:11:35,819
going on.

429
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,000
on.

430
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,139
And that is, it's been

431
00:11:37,139 --> 00:11:38,870
intriguing to me that that

432
00:11:38,870 --> 00:11:40,769
content that is unscripted,

433
00:11:40,809 --> 00:11:41,609
live,

434
00:11:41,690 --> 00:11:42,809
real, this is what's happening,

435
00:11:42,889 --> 00:11:43,689
this is what's going on, that is

436
00:11:43,610 --> 00:11:45,929
often what produces the most

437
00:11:45,929 --> 00:11:47,169
engagement, the most

438
00:11:47,169 --> 00:11:47,969
conversations,

439
00:11:48,289 --> 00:11:50,600
and from what I can tell, seems

440
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:51,980
to produce the greatest change,

441
00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:54,309
has the greatest impact.

442
00:11:54,690 --> 00:11:56,230
Yeah, especially now, as you

443
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:57,649
mentioned with AI, you know,

444
00:11:57,789 --> 00:12:00,190
taking over this space is that

445
00:12:00,190 --> 00:12:01,529
now people are questioning

446
00:12:01,529 --> 00:12:02,329
everything they see.

447
00:12:02,309 --> 00:12:04,129
So, yeah, the more real it is,

448
00:12:04,149 --> 00:12:05,210
the more like, OK, here's

449
00:12:05,210 --> 00:12:07,389
someone doing this or someone in

450
00:12:07,389 --> 00:12:08,649
the field. I think they just

451
00:12:08,649 --> 00:12:10,409
human on a human connection.

452
00:12:10,549 --> 00:12:11,409
That's what we're looking for.

453
00:12:11,490 --> 00:12:12,889
So I am seeing more of that.

454
00:12:13,470 --> 00:12:14,870
I think I think it's an

455
00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:16,309
opportunity where a lot of

456
00:12:16,309 --> 00:12:18,129
farmers could be sharing more

457
00:12:18,129 --> 00:12:20,429
about the realities of what they

458
00:12:20,429 --> 00:12:21,389
are seeing, because

459
00:12:21,830 --> 00:12:23,009
You know, I talked to farmers

460
00:12:23,009 --> 00:12:24,289
all day. I talked to, yeah, I

461
00:12:24,289 --> 00:12:25,169
talked to my audience, but I

462
00:12:25,169 --> 00:12:27,350
talked to farmers too, because I

463
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:29,090
want to know, I really want to

464
00:12:29,090 --> 00:12:30,649
understand what

465
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:32,580
they're going through and then

466
00:12:32,580 --> 00:12:34,039
try to transcript that so that

467
00:12:34,039 --> 00:12:35,080
people can understand it.

468
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:36,980
Because a lot of what I hear on

469
00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:39,139
my end from like home gardeners,

470
00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:40,680
consumers, is they're like,

471
00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:41,700
well, why aren't more farmers

472
00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:42,940
doing this? Why aren't more

473
00:12:42,940 --> 00:12:44,340
farmers growing regeneratively?

474
00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:45,919
Why don't we just start cover

475
00:12:45,919 --> 00:12:46,899
cropping? Why don't they just

476
00:12:46,899 --> 00:12:47,699
start?

477
00:12:47,419 --> 00:12:49,360
And it's like trying to explain

478
00:12:49,919 --> 00:12:51,340
all the intricacies of like,

479
00:12:51,460 --> 00:12:52,500
well, maybe they don't have the

480
00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:53,779
equipment, the right planter.

481
00:12:53,919 --> 00:12:55,200
It's not the same format.

482
00:12:55,379 --> 00:12:56,519
They have to switch stuff out,

483
00:12:56,799 --> 00:12:57,599
the timing,

484
00:12:57,860 --> 00:12:59,440
the, the, the, whatever the

485
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:00,600
growing climate is that they're

486
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:01,720
in, how are they going to

487
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:02,819
terminate it? You know, there's

488
00:13:02,819 --> 00:13:05,120
so many and it's a pennies game,

489
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,259
right? For most of them on

490
00:13:06,259 --> 00:13:07,299
acreage right now.

491
00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:09,019
And so there's so many

492
00:13:09,019 --> 00:13:10,299
intricacies, but people just

493
00:13:10,299 --> 00:13:11,399
hear regenerative and they're

494
00:13:11,399 --> 00:13:12,199
like, well,

495
00:13:12,269 --> 00:13:15,049
why isn't everyone doing it?

496
00:13:15,210 --> 00:13:16,009
Exactly.

497
00:13:15,909 --> 00:13:17,389
So it's really been, it's been

498
00:13:17,389 --> 00:13:18,930
really helpful and interesting,

499
00:13:19,069 --> 00:13:20,629
I think, just to kind of have

500
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:21,429
those conversations.

501
00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:23,350
But I found that when I do talk

502
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:24,690
to farmers about it, they don't

503
00:13:24,909 --> 00:13:26,169
want me to really necessarily

504
00:13:26,169 --> 00:13:27,009
share that.

505
00:13:27,950 --> 00:13:29,269
So that's been a struggle

506
00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:30,289
because...

507
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:31,159
you think that is?

508
00:13:32,019 --> 00:13:34,019
I think that right now there is

509
00:13:34,019 --> 00:13:37,379
a fear and it's legitimate

510
00:13:37,379 --> 00:13:39,019
because for a long time, I think

511
00:13:39,019 --> 00:13:40,360
farmers have been blamed for a

512
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:41,799
lot of things and they're kind

513
00:13:41,799 --> 00:13:43,399
of page and hold right now into

514
00:13:43,399 --> 00:13:45,179
this system that they're

515
00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:46,899
working within.

516
00:13:47,399 --> 00:13:49,029
A lot of us are trying to break

517
00:13:49,029 --> 00:13:50,490
out, but it's not always doable.

518
00:13:51,210 --> 00:13:53,090
And so I think they are a little

519
00:13:53,629 --> 00:13:55,149
gun shy because

520
00:13:55,740 --> 00:13:57,460
they are used to being blamed

521
00:13:57,460 --> 00:13:58,259
for a lot.

522
00:13:58,519 --> 00:14:01,039
And so I think they're scared to

523
00:14:01,039 --> 00:14:03,889
really speak the truth about

524
00:14:03,889 --> 00:14:05,269
what's happening because they've

525
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:07,929
heard so many times like climate

526
00:14:08,370 --> 00:14:09,649
change is because of farming,

527
00:14:10,090 --> 00:14:11,470
tilling is bad, everyone's

528
00:14:11,470 --> 00:14:12,850
tilling. Not that those things

529
00:14:12,850 --> 00:14:13,710
are not true,

530
00:14:14,049 --> 00:14:15,970
but there's a lack of

531
00:14:15,970 --> 00:14:16,769
understanding from the general

532
00:14:16,769 --> 00:14:18,470
public about what farmers truly

533
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:19,870
experience on a day -to -day

534
00:14:19,870 --> 00:14:20,669
basis.

535
00:14:22,149 --> 00:14:24,730
So I love trying to bridge those

536
00:14:24,730 --> 00:14:25,529
things together.

537
00:14:26,110 --> 00:14:28,570
I struggle with farmers not

538
00:14:28,759 --> 00:14:31,039
wanting to necessarily be on

539
00:14:31,039 --> 00:14:33,180
camera or, you know, speak about

540
00:14:33,180 --> 00:14:34,019
these things, but I mean,

541
00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:35,440
that's, that's not, it's up to

542
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:36,240
them.

543
00:14:36,659 --> 00:14:38,340
There are ones who are, it's

544
00:14:38,340 --> 00:14:39,139
just,

545
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:40,639
they're harder to find.

546
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:42,580
When I, when I look

547
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:44,899
back over the

548
00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:47,799
course of recent history, the

549
00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:49,379
last 60, 70, 80 years,

550
00:14:50,659 --> 00:14:52,559
it is entirely, it is accurate

551
00:14:52,559 --> 00:14:53,359
to say

552
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:56,889
It's accurate to say that

553
00:14:56,889 --> 00:14:59,350
farmers have been through policy

554
00:14:59,350 --> 00:15:00,629
directives and market forces,

555
00:15:00,789 --> 00:15:01,990
they have been guided into a

556
00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:04,000
certain position that is less

557
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,180
than optimal for themselves and

558
00:15:06,180 --> 00:15:07,220
for the people who are

559
00:15:07,220 --> 00:15:08,700
ultimately consuming food that

560
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:09,500
they are producing.

561
00:15:11,740 --> 00:15:13,659
It's also true that

562
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,399
there is some element of

563
00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:16,740
personal responsibility in that

564
00:15:17,340 --> 00:15:18,580
and it's also true

565
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,740
that perhaps to

566
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:21,879
a large degree,

567
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:23,580
the public discourse and the

568
00:15:23,580 --> 00:15:24,799
fear that farmers feel about

569
00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:25,599
being

570
00:15:25,539 --> 00:15:27,159
about the struggles that they

571
00:15:27,159 --> 00:15:28,299
face is

572
00:15:28,899 --> 00:15:30,000
because their

573
00:15:30,309 --> 00:15:31,330
voice hasn't been heard.

574
00:15:33,740 --> 00:15:35,299
It's just intriguing to me.

575
00:15:37,039 --> 00:15:38,620
I've been in D .C.

576
00:15:38,679 --> 00:15:40,159
on several occasions recently,

577
00:15:40,559 --> 00:15:42,200
and it's intriguing to me how

578
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:43,000
the people,

579
00:15:43,179 --> 00:15:44,899
there's a small group of people,

580
00:15:45,370 --> 00:15:46,610
relatively speaking, who is in

581
00:15:46,610 --> 00:15:47,529
charge of putting policy

582
00:15:47,529 --> 00:15:48,529
together, is in charge of making

583
00:15:48,529 --> 00:15:49,329
decisions,

584
00:15:51,929 --> 00:15:53,210
in the famous words of

585
00:15:53,210 --> 00:15:54,669
Eisenhower, whose plow is a

586
00:15:54,669 --> 00:15:57,710
pencil and whose field is,

587
00:15:58,490 --> 00:15:59,909
they're a thousand miles from

588
00:15:59,909 --> 00:16:00,750
the closest cornfield.

589
00:16:02,519 --> 00:16:03,779
And it's because, and

590
00:16:03,779 --> 00:16:04,579
particularly now,

591
00:16:04,779 --> 00:16:07,059
I see the era of AI compounding

592
00:16:07,059 --> 00:16:07,859
this even more,

593
00:16:10,110 --> 00:16:11,950
the most dangerous perspective

594
00:16:11,950 --> 00:16:12,750
is

595
00:16:13,309 --> 00:16:14,109
not

596
00:16:14,669 --> 00:16:15,549
not knowing,

597
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,519
it's being certain that you know

598
00:16:18,090 --> 00:16:19,190
and being mistaken.

599
00:16:21,019 --> 00:16:22,399
And that

600
00:16:23,389 --> 00:16:24,189
is

601
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,259
a common perspective, I think,

602
00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:28,799
in people who they start

603
00:16:28,799 --> 00:16:30,600
learning about the human health

604
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:31,779
challenges of certain

605
00:16:31,779 --> 00:16:32,579
pesticides,

606
00:16:32,740 --> 00:16:34,580
and they go deep down this

607
00:16:34,580 --> 00:16:35,500
rabbit hole, and they become

608
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,680
obsessed about, well, why are we

609
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:38,700
using these things on our food

610
00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:39,500
supply?

611
00:16:39,340 --> 00:16:40,700
And they start comparing and

612
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:41,819
contrasting with Europe, and

613
00:16:41,819 --> 00:16:42,980
they start looking at what's

614
00:16:42,980 --> 00:16:43,879
happening around the globe.

615
00:16:44,620 --> 00:16:45,419
And

616
00:16:45,460 --> 00:16:48,740
they develop these very strongly

617
00:16:48,990 --> 00:16:50,870
entrenched and very passionate

618
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:52,009
opinions and perspectives,

619
00:16:53,230 --> 00:16:54,350
and they've never talked

620
00:16:55,029 --> 00:16:57,129
or they very seldom talk to the

621
00:16:57,129 --> 00:16:58,250
people who are actually doing

622
00:16:58,250 --> 00:16:59,049
it.

623
00:16:58,970 --> 00:16:59,769
And

624
00:16:59,110 --> 00:17:00,569
part of it is because those

625
00:17:00,569 --> 00:17:02,409
voices of fear that the growers

626
00:17:02,409 --> 00:17:03,809
have of putting themselves out

627
00:17:03,809 --> 00:17:06,730
there today has also been true

628
00:17:06,730 --> 00:17:08,109
historically. And so therefore,

629
00:17:08,349 --> 00:17:09,149
their perspective,

630
00:17:10,009 --> 00:17:11,309
there is very little sympathy

631
00:17:11,309 --> 00:17:12,490
for their perspective because

632
00:17:12,490 --> 00:17:13,630
their perspective isn't known.

633
00:17:15,569 --> 00:17:16,390
I totally agree with you.

634
00:17:16,430 --> 00:17:17,849
I agree with you on everything

635
00:17:17,849 --> 00:17:19,009
that you said. I mean, there's

636
00:17:19,009 --> 00:17:20,109
so many different components

637
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,259
pieces of it, that there is, as

638
00:17:23,259 --> 00:17:25,059
you mentioned, a level of also

639
00:17:25,059 --> 00:17:27,839
personal responsibility on the

640
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:28,720
policy side.

641
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,579
There's also the fact that, you

642
00:17:31,579 --> 00:17:33,140
know, I know that a lot of them,

643
00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:34,859
whether they'll say it or not,

644
00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:36,799
had different expectations and

645
00:17:36,799 --> 00:17:37,900
what's actually happening.

646
00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:41,059
And sometimes does that come

647
00:17:41,059 --> 00:17:41,859
down to,

648
00:17:42,609 --> 00:17:43,470
you know, potentially,

649
00:17:45,109 --> 00:17:45,909
you know, You know, I hate to

650
00:17:45,589 --> 00:17:47,150
say it's not an education issue,

651
00:17:47,309 --> 00:17:48,349
but it's a it's a cultural

652
00:17:48,349 --> 00:17:50,150
issue. I think and

653
00:17:51,140 --> 00:17:52,619
it's it is it's ingrained.

654
00:17:52,779 --> 00:17:54,039
And until we start having these

655
00:17:54,039 --> 00:17:55,180
conversations and

656
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,779
and social media can be so toxic

657
00:17:57,779 --> 00:17:58,579
for this, right?

658
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,000
Some platforms are worse than

659
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,720
others where, you know, you show

660
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,759
anything using any kind of

661
00:18:04,759 --> 00:18:05,559
herbicide

662
00:18:05,819 --> 00:18:07,039
and it's like.

663
00:18:08,809 --> 00:18:09,609
You know,

664
00:18:09,869 --> 00:18:11,609
without a context of like, OK,

665
00:18:11,630 --> 00:18:12,710
well, maybe here's the half

666
00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:13,690
-life, maybe here was the

667
00:18:13,690 --> 00:18:15,049
alternative to using this.

668
00:18:15,150 --> 00:18:16,029
This is something you talk about

669
00:18:16,029 --> 00:18:17,369
in the book, even just for like

670
00:18:17,369 --> 00:18:19,329
home home growers is the problem

671
00:18:19,329 --> 00:18:20,910
of noxious and invasive weeds,

672
00:18:21,089 --> 00:18:22,630
you know, noxious and invasive

673
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:23,990
like buckthorn, for example,

674
00:18:24,569 --> 00:18:26,470
or multiflora rose or any of

675
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:28,509
those you literally cannot get

676
00:18:28,509 --> 00:18:30,109
rid of unless you do a cut and a

677
00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:30,990
brush technique.

678
00:18:31,349 --> 00:18:32,430
You know, you're not spraying it

679
00:18:32,430 --> 00:18:34,049
all over everything, but you cut

680
00:18:34,049 --> 00:18:35,190
the stump, you brush it on, you

681
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:35,990
know, that works on a home

682
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:37,609
scale. But even showing even

683
00:18:37,609 --> 00:18:38,409
showing that,

684
00:18:38,740 --> 00:18:39,700
and explaining like,

685
00:18:40,019 --> 00:18:41,140
we're not contaminating soil

686
00:18:41,140 --> 00:18:42,559
profile, this is very targeted.

687
00:18:43,019 --> 00:18:44,700
This is the only way to get rid

688
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:45,980
of this noxious invasive and

689
00:18:45,980 --> 00:18:48,759
there's still so much anger and

690
00:18:48,759 --> 00:18:50,940
pushback because of because of

691
00:18:50,940 --> 00:18:51,740
a,

692
00:18:52,369 --> 00:18:53,309
you know, a dogma that people

693
00:18:53,309 --> 00:18:54,210
get into of like,

694
00:18:54,589 --> 00:18:55,990
this is always wrong, but it's

695
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:57,289
right and regenerative.

696
00:18:57,410 --> 00:18:58,329
We're always thinking about

697
00:18:58,329 --> 00:19:00,569
context and contextual uses.

698
00:19:00,690 --> 00:19:02,309
And if an herbicide allows

699
00:19:02,309 --> 00:19:03,589
someone to start cover cropping,

700
00:19:04,309 --> 00:19:05,869
you know, we're always waiting

701
00:19:05,869 --> 00:19:07,150
that like, is that better

702
00:19:07,460 --> 00:19:09,519
than not cover cropping at all?

703
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,980
Yeah, so in those instances

704
00:19:12,980 --> 00:19:14,240
where you've received this

705
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:15,180
story.

706
00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:17,039
negative feedback, how have you

707
00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:18,339
managed that? How have you

708
00:19:18,339 --> 00:19:19,160
responded to it?

709
00:19:20,130 --> 00:19:23,269
Usually I have to balance for my

710
00:19:23,269 --> 00:19:24,910
mental health, how

711
00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:26,839
much I look at certain

712
00:19:26,839 --> 00:19:28,059
platforms. I mean, honestly,

713
00:19:28,259 --> 00:19:29,380
like Facebook, for example,

714
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:31,170
I usually don't look at it at

715
00:19:31,170 --> 00:19:33,130
all because on there,

716
00:19:33,450 --> 00:19:35,309
it just is a very I don't know

717
00:19:35,309 --> 00:19:37,009
what it is, but it's just very

718
00:19:37,009 --> 00:19:39,509
aggressive and people are nasty.

719
00:19:39,710 --> 00:19:40,849
I mean, it's not just like, oh,

720
00:19:40,869 --> 00:19:42,170
I disagree with your practices.

721
00:19:42,329 --> 00:19:44,130
It's like you're a terrible

722
00:19:44,130 --> 00:19:46,269
person and I want you to die.

723
00:19:46,369 --> 00:19:47,230
You know, I mean, like really

724
00:19:47,230 --> 00:19:48,710
horrible stuff.

725
00:19:49,269 --> 00:19:50,690
And so, you know, with Instagram

726
00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:52,609
and even on YouTube, I'll get

727
00:19:52,609 --> 00:19:53,609
into this and be like, OK,

728
00:19:53,609 --> 00:19:54,509
here's the science.

729
00:19:54,509 --> 00:19:55,990
Here's like why.

730
00:19:56,109 --> 00:19:57,289
Here's what invasive

731
00:19:57,789 --> 00:19:59,509
plants do to the rhizosphere.

732
00:19:59,849 --> 00:20:01,690
Here's why it's important that

733
00:20:01,690 --> 00:20:02,710
we manage certain things

734
00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:04,069
ecologically as humans.

735
00:20:05,170 --> 00:20:06,710
And that conversation can happen

736
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:07,509
more naturally.

737
00:20:07,349 --> 00:20:08,269
I do try to back it up

738
00:20:08,269 --> 00:20:09,069
scientifically,

739
00:20:09,289 --> 00:20:11,150
you know, and use people with

740
00:20:11,150 --> 00:20:13,369
more experience than I do to

741
00:20:13,369 --> 00:20:14,349
instate those things.

742
00:20:14,589 --> 00:20:16,069
But yeah, sometimes you just

743
00:20:16,069 --> 00:20:17,650
have to admit that and let it go

744
00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:18,450
that there are going to be

745
00:20:18,410 --> 00:20:19,769
people who are going to

746
00:20:19,769 --> 00:20:20,569
disagree.

747
00:20:21,349 --> 00:20:22,390
I prefer that it happens

748
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:25,230
civilly, but that's...

749
00:20:25,230 --> 00:20:26,029
Yeah.

750
00:20:26,190 --> 00:20:28,009
We've become a society where

751
00:20:28,009 --> 00:20:30,109
civil disagreement has become

752
00:20:30,109 --> 00:20:31,170
increasingly challenged, it

753
00:20:31,170 --> 00:20:31,970
appears.

754
00:20:32,019 --> 00:20:32,819
Yes.

755
00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:34,329
So I've

756
00:20:34,769 --> 00:20:35,569
really enjoyed this

757
00:20:35,369 --> 00:20:36,430
conversation, but let's talk

758
00:20:36,430 --> 00:20:37,289
about growing plants.

759
00:20:38,769 --> 00:20:40,309
Tell us a bit more about your

760
00:20:40,309 --> 00:20:41,170
flower operation.

761
00:20:41,329 --> 00:20:42,569
You said that it's two acres in

762
00:20:42,569 --> 00:20:43,369
size.

763
00:20:43,069 --> 00:20:44,390
Tell us a bit more about the

764
00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:45,579
environment that you're growing

765
00:20:45,579 --> 00:20:46,379
in,

766
00:20:46,269 --> 00:20:47,390
cultural management practices,

767
00:20:47,589 --> 00:20:48,509
and how it's evolved.

768
00:20:48,609 --> 00:20:49,490
How did it come into being?

769
00:20:49,930 --> 00:20:51,509
Yeah, so we're high altitude.

770
00:20:51,690 --> 00:20:54,490
So Denver, we're 5280, basically

771
00:20:54,490 --> 00:20:55,369
a mile high.

772
00:20:56,049 --> 00:20:57,269
So that comes with challenges.

773
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:58,369
We have a lot of hail.

774
00:20:58,849 --> 00:21:00,269
And we talked about water

775
00:21:00,269 --> 00:21:01,829
restrictions that were pretty

776
00:21:01,829 --> 00:21:03,130
low on snowpack for a couple

777
00:21:03,130 --> 00:21:03,930
years running now.

778
00:21:04,049 --> 00:21:05,470
And so hot.

779
00:21:06,059 --> 00:21:07,519
We're forecasting to get 91

780
00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:08,900
degrees on Friday, which is

781
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:09,859
absolutely wild.

782
00:21:11,710 --> 00:21:12,789
swings always are crazy.

783
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,779
a 60 degree. I remember a couple

784
00:21:15,779 --> 00:21:17,759
years ago it was September.

785
00:21:17,980 --> 00:21:18,779
We usually don't get our first

786
00:21:18,779 --> 00:21:19,579
frost till October.

787
00:21:20,259 --> 00:21:21,059
It was September.

788
00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:22,140
It was 90 degrees during the day

789
00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:22,980
and the next day it was going to

790
00:21:22,980 --> 00:21:23,779
snow.

791
00:21:23,980 --> 00:21:26,140
And we still had dahlias in the

792
00:21:26,140 --> 00:21:27,220
field. We still had weddings.

793
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:28,500
We still had things to do for

794
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:30,220
another month. So we were out

795
00:21:30,220 --> 00:21:32,079
covering all of the plants and

796
00:21:32,079 --> 00:21:33,039
it was 90 degrees.

797
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:34,920
And the next day it snowed.

798
00:21:34,940 --> 00:21:36,119
So we get a lot of extremes.

799
00:21:36,769 --> 00:21:38,410
And then in Minnesota, obviously

800
00:21:38,410 --> 00:21:39,490
a little bit more temperate,

801
00:21:39,589 --> 00:21:41,009
still a fair amount of extremes

802
00:21:41,009 --> 00:21:42,569
out there and increasingly so.

803
00:21:43,089 --> 00:21:44,329
But different sets of challenges

804
00:21:44,329 --> 00:21:47,529
like excess moisture is, you

805
00:21:47,529 --> 00:21:48,930
know, tends to be a problem out

806
00:21:48,930 --> 00:21:50,210
there or runoff or erosion

807
00:21:50,210 --> 00:21:51,829
because that's in the middle of

808
00:21:51,829 --> 00:21:54,740
farm country and dealing with

809
00:21:54,740 --> 00:21:56,240
herbicide drift and that kind of

810
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,099
stuff. And then here locally,

811
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,799
we're urban, so we don't really

812
00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:00,940
deal with that kind of thing.

813
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,700
We deal more with people using

814
00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:04,240
rat poison. You know, it's very

815
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,240
different sets of challenges.

816
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:08,359
And in the

817
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,079
how...

818
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,039
How have your growing practices

819
00:22:13,039 --> 00:22:14,180
evolved over time?

820
00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:15,720
Where did you start and where

821
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:16,519
are you today?

822
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:18,539
Very interesting.

823
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:20,920
If you look back at my Instagram

824
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:21,720
far enough,

825
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,920
you will see our fields covered

826
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,000
in plastic mulch and

827
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,799
plastic hail netting and plastic

828
00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:32,519
hoops and plastic, you know,

829
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:33,480
frost fabric.

830
00:22:34,140 --> 00:22:35,779
That's how I grew vegetables 20

831
00:22:35,779 --> 00:22:36,579
years ago.

832
00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:37,079
It's very familiar.

833
00:22:37,380 --> 00:22:39,220
Yes. You know the picture,

834
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,000
right? Um, and that's just

835
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,279
because that's how I, you know,

836
00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:43,700
when I started growing flowers,

837
00:22:43,859 --> 00:22:44,900
I had never grown flowers

838
00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:45,859
before. That was my first time

839
00:22:45,859 --> 00:22:46,740
doing it on that scale.

840
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:47,900
And so that's what most of the

841
00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:48,700
big producers do.

842
00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:49,539
So I did it.

843
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,099
And then as I started getting

844
00:22:52,099 --> 00:22:53,400
more into the soil health, I

845
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,460
started listening to your

846
00:22:54,460 --> 00:22:56,259
podcast. I started, I got a

847
00:22:56,259 --> 00:22:57,859
microscope. I started looking at

848
00:22:57,859 --> 00:22:59,440
my compost. You know, I really

849
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:00,339
got into the weeds.

850
00:23:00,420 --> 00:23:01,829
I'm like, what's happening

851
00:23:01,829 --> 00:23:03,049
beneath the soil.

852
00:23:03,069 --> 00:23:03,869
Cause I just think it's

853
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:04,549
fascinating.

854
00:23:05,569 --> 00:23:08,140
And then I started to see, you

855
00:23:08,140 --> 00:23:09,420
know, I pull up the plastic at

856
00:23:09,420 --> 00:23:10,819
the end of the season and how

857
00:23:10,819 --> 00:23:11,640
compacted,

858
00:23:12,019 --> 00:23:14,640
how cracked the soil was.

859
00:23:14,759 --> 00:23:15,559
I mean, literally

860
00:23:16,069 --> 00:23:16,890
cracking,

861
00:23:17,410 --> 00:23:19,089
clearly no organic matter had

862
00:23:19,089 --> 00:23:20,750
been getting down onto that soil

863
00:23:20,750 --> 00:23:22,029
all year because it'd been

864
00:23:22,029 --> 00:23:23,690
coated in a layer of plastic.

865
00:23:24,109 --> 00:23:25,289
And then I started to see little

866
00:23:25,690 --> 00:23:27,230
pieces of that plastic like in

867
00:23:27,230 --> 00:23:29,309
birds nests and just floating

868
00:23:29,309 --> 00:23:30,150
around on the ground.

869
00:23:30,609 --> 00:23:32,150
And then I started thinking

870
00:23:32,150 --> 00:23:35,170
like, maybe this isn't the way

871
00:23:35,170 --> 00:23:36,569
that the soil is

872
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,000
going to be threaded.

873
00:23:37,940 --> 00:23:39,119
Maybe I should be looking more

874
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,839
to nature to see what's

875
00:23:40,839 --> 00:23:42,519
happening. And so I started

876
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:44,119
slowly removing, I think the

877
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:45,319
first year I took a third of the

878
00:23:45,319 --> 00:23:46,119
plastic away.

879
00:23:46,339 --> 00:23:48,079
And then the following year, I

880
00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:48,980
removed it all.

881
00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:51,279
People think I have like,

882
00:23:53,019 --> 00:23:53,819
I have tons of weeds.

883
00:23:53,940 --> 00:23:54,960
I started with tons of weeds.

884
00:23:55,059 --> 00:23:55,859
I had bindweed.

885
00:23:55,779 --> 00:23:57,099
I had thistle. I had hemlock.

886
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,000
I had all of those.

887
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:58,940
It's not like I started with

888
00:23:58,940 --> 00:24:00,500
some pristine ground.

889
00:24:00,619 --> 00:24:01,759
So I did have heavy weed

890
00:24:01,759 --> 00:24:02,559
pressure.

891
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,099
I just learned how to deal with

892
00:24:04,099 --> 00:24:04,899
it differently.

893
00:24:04,839 --> 00:24:07,680
But that took a lot of trial and

894
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:08,839
error. It took, you know, how do

895
00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:09,639
I scale this down?

896
00:24:09,599 --> 00:24:10,720
Because I'm not cover cropping

897
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,019
with a tractor here.

898
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:14,900
You know, I'm doing it by hand.

899
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:18,190
I do permaculture beds.

900
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:19,190
So

901
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:20,529
We're not out here with huge

902
00:24:20,529 --> 00:24:21,329
machinery.

903
00:24:21,009 --> 00:24:22,049
We just can't. I don't have that

904
00:24:22,049 --> 00:24:22,849
kind of space.

905
00:24:23,569 --> 00:24:26,049
So how did you deal with the

906
00:24:26,049 --> 00:24:27,170
weeds? What did you replace the

907
00:24:27,170 --> 00:24:28,210
plastic with over time?

908
00:24:28,809 --> 00:24:30,470
So a combination of things, it

909
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:31,670
depends on the crop, you know,

910
00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:33,029
for more perennial plants.

911
00:24:33,549 --> 00:24:34,869
So, you know, production peonies

912
00:24:34,869 --> 00:24:36,589
or roses, for example, we do,

913
00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:38,509
I do a combination of like

914
00:24:38,509 --> 00:24:40,430
living ground covers for the

915
00:24:40,430 --> 00:24:41,869
walkways. So native grasses like

916
00:24:41,869 --> 00:24:43,230
blue grandma that don't take a

917
00:24:43,230 --> 00:24:44,250
lot of water because they don't

918
00:24:44,250 --> 00:24:45,049
want to be irrigating.

919
00:24:45,730 --> 00:24:47,650
And then I'll also do, you know,

920
00:24:47,690 --> 00:24:48,990
a higher carbon mulch.

921
00:24:49,210 --> 00:24:50,130
So something like wood chips

922
00:24:50,130 --> 00:24:51,549
that's going to break down more

923
00:24:51,549 --> 00:24:52,789
slowly. Usually I have to top

924
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:54,109
that back up, you know, every

925
00:24:54,109 --> 00:24:55,089
few years or so.

926
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,759
And then in the annual area, so

927
00:24:57,759 --> 00:24:59,900
I've learned how to separate my

928
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:01,200
annuals. and perennials.

929
00:25:01,380 --> 00:25:02,319
I love interplanting.

930
00:25:02,380 --> 00:25:03,240
I think it's great, but I've

931
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,960
learned, I separate perennials

932
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,660
and annuals and I separate by,

933
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,220
you know, production time.

934
00:25:09,319 --> 00:25:10,460
So are they producing in the

935
00:25:10,460 --> 00:25:11,599
summer or are they producing in

936
00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:13,200
the spring? Because they both

937
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:14,279
get treated differently, but I

938
00:25:14,279 --> 00:25:15,259
cluster them together.

939
00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:18,099
So I can always either have a

940
00:25:18,099 --> 00:25:19,960
cover crop on the ground in the

941
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,839
spring, or I can have one on the

942
00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:22,799
ground in the late summer,

943
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:24,259
depending on what season it is.

944
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,440
the production crop was in that

945
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,759
bed. So I do a thick cover crop,

946
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,859
I overseed it fairly heavily.

947
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:32,480
And I let it grow in either

948
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:33,920
it'll winter kill terminate, and

949
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:34,980
then I have the mulch in place

950
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:36,680
for the next year, or I'll

951
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:37,779
terminate it in the spring

952
00:25:37,779 --> 00:25:39,579
manually plant into it.

953
00:25:39,759 --> 00:25:41,059
And then I have my mulch.

954
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,240
So it saved me a couple things

955
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:43,500
like one is that I'm not having

956
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:45,619
to bring in and worry about

957
00:25:45,619 --> 00:25:47,440
mulch right on a smaller market

958
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:48,240
farm scale,

959
00:25:48,819 --> 00:25:51,359
applying mulch finding mulch for

960
00:25:51,660 --> 00:25:53,000
two acres is challenging.

961
00:25:53,660 --> 00:25:54,759
So growing it has been much

962
00:25:54,759 --> 00:25:55,559
easier.

963
00:25:55,579 --> 00:25:56,480
And then, of course, we're doing

964
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,420
wonderful things for the soil

965
00:25:57,420 --> 00:25:58,960
profile at the same time.

966
00:25:59,099 --> 00:26:00,960
So it's like a one -two punch.

967
00:26:01,059 --> 00:26:02,000
I'm growing my mulch.

968
00:26:02,460 --> 00:26:03,960
I'm adding organic matter to the

969
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,940
soil. And I can get nitrogen.

970
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:07,720
I can inoculate that.

971
00:26:07,819 --> 00:26:09,359
I can get the soil

972
00:26:09,769 --> 00:26:11,430
biome up and going.

973
00:26:12,210 --> 00:26:14,509
So to me, it's a no -brainer.

974
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:16,730
But it was figuring out how to

975
00:26:16,730 --> 00:26:17,529
implement it.

976
00:26:20,839 --> 00:26:22,079
On that journey,

977
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,039
how many years has it been since

978
00:26:24,039 --> 00:26:26,039
you started this, and how has

979
00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:27,259
the soil health evolved, and how

980
00:26:27,259 --> 00:26:28,640
has plant health evolved in that

981
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:29,440
time frame?

982
00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:30,500
This is year eight,

983
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,619
and I'd say probably year six

984
00:26:33,619 --> 00:26:34,500
since we've been kind of doing

985
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:35,359
these practices.

986
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:37,589
Gosh,

987
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:39,049
I can't even say how much easier

988
00:26:39,049 --> 00:26:41,990
it has gotten to run my farm.

989
00:26:42,130 --> 00:26:43,549
People think that cover cropping

990
00:26:43,549 --> 00:26:44,730
is a lot of work, but I look at

991
00:26:44,730 --> 00:26:45,730
that and I say, well, I used to

992
00:26:45,730 --> 00:26:47,430
have to roll up this fabric

993
00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:49,230
every year and then roll it back

994
00:26:49,230 --> 00:26:50,029
out in the spring.

995
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:52,269
And then that was work, too, in

996
00:26:52,269 --> 00:26:53,069
and of itself.

997
00:26:53,329 --> 00:26:54,690
And I'd have to bring in mulch.

998
00:26:54,980 --> 00:26:56,079
I'd have to fertilize.

999
00:26:56,799 --> 00:26:57,940
There were all these other

1000
00:26:57,940 --> 00:26:59,339
things that I had to do before

1001
00:26:59,339 --> 00:27:00,759
that now actually I don't have

1002
00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:01,980
to do. And the same for things

1003
00:27:01,980 --> 00:27:02,799
like pest pressure.

1004
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:03,759
I mean, I'm not going to sit

1005
00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:04,559
here and say like, well, I have

1006
00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:05,859
no pests. That's not true.

1007
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:06,900
Of course, that's never going to

1008
00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:07,700
be true.

1009
00:27:08,140 --> 00:27:09,920
We have a lot of invasive pests,

1010
00:27:09,980 --> 00:27:10,779
for example, like

1011
00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:12,910
Japanese beetles.

1012
00:27:14,369 --> 00:27:15,169
Those just

1013
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:16,390
There's nothing that's evolved

1014
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:17,450
with our ecosystem to really

1015
00:27:17,450 --> 00:27:18,650
handle a lot of that stuff.

1016
00:27:18,970 --> 00:27:20,029
But things like the

1017
00:27:20,029 --> 00:27:21,410
grasshoppers, things like the

1018
00:27:21,410 --> 00:27:24,009
earwigs, I have not had a thrip

1019
00:27:24,009 --> 00:27:25,470
on my flowers, which is a major

1020
00:27:25,470 --> 00:27:26,750
problem in flower production.

1021
00:27:27,890 --> 00:27:29,250
I can't even remember the last

1022
00:27:29,250 --> 00:27:30,809
time. We used to have to bag our

1023
00:27:30,809 --> 00:27:33,750
dahlias individually to

1024
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:36,539
keep the press pressure so that

1025
00:27:36,539 --> 00:27:37,480
they didn't eat the petals.

1026
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,730
We can't sell a flower that's

1027
00:27:39,730 --> 00:27:40,529
been like,

1028
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:43,609
Decimated by a grasshopper so

1029
00:27:43,609 --> 00:27:44,690
we'd bag them and remove the

1030
00:27:44,690 --> 00:27:45,490
bags at harvest.

1031
00:27:45,529 --> 00:27:46,990
I mean, so time consuming to do

1032
00:27:46,990 --> 00:27:47,789
that.

1033
00:27:47,630 --> 00:27:49,569
And now I don't have to, I

1034
00:27:49,569 --> 00:27:51,809
haven't had to bag a dahlia in 4

1035
00:27:51,809 --> 00:27:52,930
years and.

1036
00:27:53,390 --> 00:27:54,970
A lot of that, yeah, the cover

1037
00:27:54,970 --> 00:27:56,569
cropping, the ecosystem stuff

1038
00:27:56,569 --> 00:27:57,589
that we're implementing also

1039
00:27:57,589 --> 00:27:58,390
helps with that.

1040
00:27:59,250 --> 00:28:00,630
The biodiversity and the cover

1041
00:28:00,630 --> 00:28:01,730
cropping helps with that.

1042
00:28:02,190 --> 00:28:03,150
And it's just fun to me.

1043
00:28:03,230 --> 00:28:04,289
Like, it's like a weird little

1044
00:28:04,289 --> 00:28:05,410
puzzle, you know, to put

1045
00:28:05,410 --> 00:28:06,509
together. Like, okay, what's

1046
00:28:06,509 --> 00:28:07,349
something that if we're having

1047
00:28:07,349 --> 00:28:08,349
pest pressure in the dalleys,

1048
00:28:08,410 --> 00:28:09,250
okay, maybe we're going to try

1049
00:28:09,250 --> 00:28:10,430
interplanning buckwheat because

1050
00:28:10,430 --> 00:28:12,109
that's going to bring in a bunch

1051
00:28:12,109 --> 00:28:13,430
of beneficial insects right at

1052
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:14,349
that peak time when they're

1053
00:28:14,349 --> 00:28:15,170
starting to flower.

1054
00:28:15,890 --> 00:28:17,569
And then that's an easy one to

1055
00:28:17,569 --> 00:28:18,869
terminate by hand, you know.

1056
00:28:19,069 --> 00:28:19,869
So,

1057
00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:20,839
Figuring out all those little

1058
00:28:20,839 --> 00:28:21,819
things has been really fun, but

1059
00:28:21,819 --> 00:28:23,740
the soil profile is the thing

1060
00:28:23,740 --> 00:28:25,140
that when people come and they

1061
00:28:25,140 --> 00:28:25,960
look at our soil.

1062
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:26,919
We're in Colorado.

1063
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:27,880
We have heavy clay.

1064
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:29,960
Everyone here almost loves

1065
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,539
raised beds because we have to

1066
00:28:32,539 --> 00:28:33,339
bring in the soil.

1067
00:28:33,339 --> 00:28:34,299
The clay is too hard.

1068
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,200
It's too big.

1069
00:28:35,859 --> 00:28:37,279
Our soil looks,

1070
00:28:38,309 --> 00:28:39,930
I mean, just phenomenal.

1071
00:28:40,109 --> 00:28:41,289
And it's such a pleasure to work

1072
00:28:41,289 --> 00:28:43,390
in because it's spongy.

1073
00:28:43,529 --> 00:28:44,329
It's soft.

1074
00:28:44,829 --> 00:28:47,430
It's got that texture where the

1075
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:48,349
soil life is active.

1076
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,000
And so it's really enjoyable to

1077
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:51,799
work in.

1078
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:52,960
Well, if you've been doing cover

1079
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,400
crops every single year,

1080
00:28:54,890 --> 00:28:56,569
plus you're bringing in, in the

1081
00:28:56,569 --> 00:28:57,569
case of the perennials, you're

1082
00:28:57,569 --> 00:28:58,890
bringing in mulch and so forth,

1083
00:28:59,069 --> 00:29:01,809
then yeah, you would have soil

1084
00:29:01,809 --> 00:29:03,009
that would be very different

1085
00:29:03,009 --> 00:29:04,109
condition from what you started

1086
00:29:04,109 --> 00:29:04,909
with.

1087
00:29:05,650 --> 00:29:06,450
Give us a bit of an,

1088
00:29:06,769 --> 00:29:07,970
for the benefit of our

1089
00:29:07,970 --> 00:29:08,769
listeners,

1090
00:29:09,549 --> 00:29:10,910
Can you tell us about what is

1091
00:29:10,910 --> 00:29:13,130
the market opportunity in flower

1092
00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:13,930
production, really?

1093
00:29:13,970 --> 00:29:16,910
I have some close personal

1094
00:29:16,910 --> 00:29:18,450
friends who are flower farmers,

1095
00:29:18,829 --> 00:29:20,849
and it's one of the 50 things

1096
00:29:20,849 --> 00:29:22,029
that I would really like to do

1097
00:29:22,029 --> 00:29:23,170
someday that I'll probably never

1098
00:29:23,170 --> 00:29:23,970
get to.

1099
00:29:24,769 --> 00:29:27,529
But I've been really intrigued

1100
00:29:27,529 --> 00:29:28,670
by it, and I've been intrigued

1101
00:29:28,670 --> 00:29:31,210
by the market dynamics as I've

1102
00:29:31,210 --> 00:29:32,049
come to understand them.

1103
00:29:32,349 --> 00:29:33,149
Obviously,

1104
00:29:33,230 --> 00:29:34,470
it's local and regional, but

1105
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:35,450
there seems to be tremendous

1106
00:29:35,450 --> 00:29:36,809
opportunity in many parts of the

1107
00:29:36,809 --> 00:29:37,609
country.

1108
00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:39,539
Gosh, when you start looking at

1109
00:29:39,539 --> 00:29:40,980
like, you just like we were

1110
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:41,859
talking about, you know,

1111
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:42,759
conventional

1112
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,700
when we're talking about

1113
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:46,180
conventional row crop farmers

1114
00:29:46,180 --> 00:29:46,980
and

1115
00:29:47,349 --> 00:29:48,829
how they've been subject to

1116
00:29:48,829 --> 00:29:50,710
these market conditions that are

1117
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:51,730
way beyond their control.

1118
00:29:51,869 --> 00:29:52,669
It's.

1119
00:29:52,609 --> 00:29:53,869
the same for flowers, you know,

1120
00:29:53,910 --> 00:29:56,190
back in the 90s is when,

1121
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:57,589
you know, the U .S.

1122
00:29:57,670 --> 00:29:58,950
government started subsidizing

1123
00:29:58,950 --> 00:30:01,430
Colombian flower growers to try

1124
00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:03,309
to combat the cocaine trade.

1125
00:30:03,769 --> 00:30:05,690
And so they started subsidizing

1126
00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:08,109
greenhouses in, you know,

1127
00:30:08,190 --> 00:30:09,849
Ecuador and Colombia to try to

1128
00:30:09,849 --> 00:30:10,849
combat the drug trade.

1129
00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:12,569
But essentially what they ended

1130
00:30:12,569 --> 00:30:13,390
up doing is

1131
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:16,259
decimating the American flower

1132
00:30:16,259 --> 00:30:17,900
farming trade. I think it

1133
00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:19,880
plunged by like 90 percent in

1134
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,500
the over the 90s because

1135
00:30:22,210 --> 00:30:24,109
in closer to the equator, of

1136
00:30:24,109 --> 00:30:24,909
course, they have

1137
00:30:25,210 --> 00:30:26,809
growing periods, they can grow

1138
00:30:26,809 --> 00:30:28,329
for more of the year.

1139
00:30:28,549 --> 00:30:30,690
So a lot of like our rose

1140
00:30:30,690 --> 00:30:33,390
production shifted to the

1141
00:30:33,390 --> 00:30:35,329
southern hemisphere and it

1142
00:30:35,329 --> 00:30:36,809
decimated the American flower

1143
00:30:36,809 --> 00:30:38,529
farmer. So I think just in the

1144
00:30:38,529 --> 00:30:40,349
last 10 years, we've really

1145
00:30:40,349 --> 00:30:42,170
started to see an uptick in this

1146
00:30:42,730 --> 00:30:44,589
awareness of

1147
00:30:45,269 --> 00:30:46,490
OK, most of these flowers now

1148
00:30:46,490 --> 00:30:47,470
are being imported.

1149
00:30:47,650 --> 00:30:48,650
They're not grown locally.

1150
00:30:48,829 --> 00:30:50,410
There is really high rates of

1151
00:30:50,410 --> 00:30:52,369
pesticide and herbicide use in

1152
00:30:52,369 --> 00:30:53,169
those growing

1153
00:30:53,940 --> 00:30:56,299
conditions, unfortunately, and

1154
00:30:56,299 --> 00:30:57,619
people wanting to maybe turn

1155
00:30:57,619 --> 00:30:58,900
more back toward local

1156
00:30:59,210 --> 00:31:00,849
local flowers, which is great.

1157
00:31:01,910 --> 00:31:03,390
And, you know, it's it's there's

1158
00:31:03,390 --> 00:31:04,769
a lot of opportunity, I think.

1159
00:31:04,869 --> 00:31:06,509
I think that's it's one of those

1160
00:31:06,509 --> 00:31:08,250
places where knowing

1161
00:31:08,849 --> 00:31:09,769
your farmer is

1162
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,200
is really important because I

1163
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,460
see this unfortunately, I see

1164
00:31:13,460 --> 00:31:16,319
where flower farmers buy in a

1165
00:31:16,319 --> 00:31:17,759
lot of flowers and maybe it's

1166
00:31:17,759 --> 00:31:18,779
like, okay, well, this flower

1167
00:31:18,779 --> 00:31:19,579
isn't necessarily,

1168
00:31:19,859 --> 00:31:21,099
some of them they grew, some of

1169
00:31:21,099 --> 00:31:21,899
them they bought.

1170
00:31:22,890 --> 00:31:23,789
And if people are supporting

1171
00:31:23,789 --> 00:31:24,910
local, they really, they want it

1172
00:31:24,910 --> 00:31:26,309
to be local. So knowing the

1173
00:31:26,309 --> 00:31:27,109
farmer, getting out there,

1174
00:31:27,150 --> 00:31:28,650
talking, showing the field, like

1175
00:31:28,650 --> 00:31:29,829
here's the tulips, we're pulling

1176
00:31:29,829 --> 00:31:31,029
them up, we're harvesting them,

1177
00:31:31,390 --> 00:31:32,829
here they are now, buy them.

1178
00:31:33,410 --> 00:31:34,609
I think people like to see that.

1179
00:31:34,809 --> 00:31:36,549
There is so much opportunity and

1180
00:31:36,549 --> 00:31:38,410
acre -wise,

1181
00:31:39,380 --> 00:31:40,779
it nets for sure the highest

1182
00:31:40,779 --> 00:31:43,700
profit of any crop that you can

1183
00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:46,140
grow, but it comes with...

1184
00:31:46,140 --> 00:31:47,539
That's accurate for the record,

1185
00:31:47,579 --> 00:31:48,519
even higher than marijuana.

1186
00:31:49,420 --> 00:31:50,220
Oh, is it even higher?

1187
00:31:50,299 --> 00:31:51,099
Actually, I didn't know that.

1188
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:51,700
Oh, yeah.

1189
00:31:51,420 --> 00:31:52,220
Yeah.

1190
00:31:52,099 --> 00:31:52,899
Is that 35?

1191
00:31:53,980 --> 00:31:54,960
An acre? Wow.

1192
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:55,960
I didn't know that.

1193
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:56,720
Well, good for me.

1194
00:31:57,559 --> 00:31:59,359
In Colorado, I could grow...

1195
00:31:59,670 --> 00:32:00,470
Yeah.

1196
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,440
But yes, but it comes with a lot

1197
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,039
of labor, very labor intensive

1198
00:32:06,039 --> 00:32:06,920
work

1199
00:32:07,289 --> 00:32:08,089
as well.

1200
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:10,000
How,

1201
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,400
for people who might be

1202
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:12,440
interested in exploring it

1203
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:13,720
further, what are resources that

1204
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:14,660
you would suggest that people

1205
00:32:14,660 --> 00:32:16,220
are considering or interested in

1206
00:32:16,220 --> 00:32:17,400
possibly growing flowers for

1207
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,200
their local market?

1208
00:32:19,450 --> 00:32:20,250
Check out our YouTube.

1209
00:32:20,829 --> 00:32:23,470
There's lots of great books and

1210
00:32:23,470 --> 00:32:24,609
resources out there.

1211
00:32:25,150 --> 00:32:26,509
I would say for those who want

1212
00:32:26,509 --> 00:32:27,690
to grow regeneratively,

1213
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:30,940
yeah, pick up a resource.

1214
00:32:31,420 --> 00:32:32,220
I

1215
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,299
obviously just put out the book

1216
00:32:33,299 --> 00:32:34,160
where I show really,

1217
00:32:34,819 --> 00:32:36,000
if you're going to pick up a

1218
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:36,799
book on the market.

1219
00:32:36,619 --> 00:32:37,740
What's the title of your book?

1220
00:32:38,170 --> 00:32:39,470
The Regenerative Gardener's

1221
00:32:39,470 --> 00:32:40,269
Handbook.

1222
00:32:41,710 --> 00:32:43,950
And we go into things like

1223
00:32:43,950 --> 00:32:45,690
netting because, you know, on a

1224
00:32:45,690 --> 00:32:46,789
farming scale, on a flower

1225
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:47,589
farming scale,

1226
00:32:47,849 --> 00:32:48,950
we always have to worry about

1227
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:50,470
the product looking perfect.

1228
00:32:50,730 --> 00:32:51,809
You know, produce, you worry

1229
00:32:51,809 --> 00:32:53,609
about that as well, but flowers

1230
00:32:53,609 --> 00:32:54,409
even more so.

1231
00:32:55,009 --> 00:32:56,329
And so we can't have like a

1232
00:32:56,329 --> 00:32:57,609
weird shaped stem.

1233
00:32:57,730 --> 00:32:59,829
So we'll use a net to make sure

1234
00:32:59,829 --> 00:33:00,650
everything stays upright.

1235
00:33:00,849 --> 00:33:02,369
Well, in traditional, you know,

1236
00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:04,250
usually what we're being shown

1237
00:33:04,250 --> 00:33:05,690
in most books and stuff is this

1238
00:33:05,690 --> 00:33:06,569
plastic knitting,

1239
00:33:07,170 --> 00:33:08,210
which is kind of an

1240
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,160
a nightmare when we're looking

1241
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:12,799
at, like, at the end of the

1242
00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:13,859
season, we're pulling up this

1243
00:33:13,859 --> 00:33:15,460
plastic netting, and it's

1244
00:33:15,460 --> 00:33:16,500
literally these little six -inch

1245
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:17,400
holes, and then we're throwing

1246
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,660
that in the landfill, and I'm

1247
00:33:18,660 --> 00:33:19,519
just picturing, like,

1248
00:33:20,019 --> 00:33:21,019
the birds and things getting

1249
00:33:21,019 --> 00:33:21,819
caught in this.

1250
00:33:21,980 --> 00:33:23,539
So we started using things like

1251
00:33:23,539 --> 00:33:24,339
jute netting. You know,

1252
00:33:24,849 --> 00:33:26,269
it's totally doable to do this

1253
00:33:26,269 --> 00:33:27,690
in a way that is lower in

1254
00:33:27,690 --> 00:33:28,990
plastic usage. It's not

1255
00:33:28,990 --> 00:33:30,789
contaminating either the soil or

1256
00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:32,329
the environment with plastic.

1257
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,079
But I'd say, yeah, I mean, check

1258
00:33:35,079 --> 00:33:36,099
out the YouTube, check out the

1259
00:33:36,099 --> 00:33:36,899
book.

1260
00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:38,180
There are more growers getting

1261
00:33:38,180 --> 00:33:39,680
into it now doing more

1262
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,980
regenerative practices and

1263
00:33:42,970 --> 00:33:44,309
think outside the box.

1264
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:45,430
You know, yes, look at the

1265
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:46,549
flowers you want to grow, but

1266
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:48,890
don't necessarily look at these

1267
00:33:49,170 --> 00:33:50,970
entire fields covered in plastic

1268
00:33:50,970 --> 00:33:52,369
mulch and think, I have to do

1269
00:33:52,369 --> 00:33:53,269
that because that's the way

1270
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:54,250
everybody else is doing it.

1271
00:33:55,710 --> 00:33:56,509
And if you want to be

1272
00:33:56,410 --> 00:33:57,589
profitable, stay small.

1273
00:33:58,529 --> 00:34:00,049
Stay small is a great tip,

1274
00:34:00,089 --> 00:34:01,730
especially for the first couple

1275
00:34:01,730 --> 00:34:02,670
of years, because

1276
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:05,000
I think people underestimate how

1277
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,599
labor intensive it is to harvest

1278
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:10,010
flowers by hand and to

1279
00:34:10,010 --> 00:34:11,170
process them and strip them and

1280
00:34:11,170 --> 00:34:12,250
bunch them. And if you're making

1281
00:34:12,250 --> 00:34:13,769
bouquets to make the bouquets to

1282
00:34:13,769 --> 00:34:14,829
keep them in the cooler, take

1283
00:34:14,829 --> 00:34:15,849
them out of the cooler, drive

1284
00:34:15,849 --> 00:34:16,849
them to the market, you know,

1285
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:18,309
very, very time intensive.

1286
00:34:19,150 --> 00:34:19,950
And so people are like, well,

1287
00:34:19,849 --> 00:34:20,650
I'm going to do an acre.

1288
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:22,510
Oh, my gosh. If you start out on

1289
00:34:22,510 --> 00:34:23,310
an acre,

1290
00:34:23,289 --> 00:34:24,170
yeah, you're going to be.

1291
00:34:24,519 --> 00:34:25,500
burned out immediately.

1292
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,320
So starting on a quarter of an

1293
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:28,659
acre, and you can be fairly,

1294
00:34:29,039 --> 00:34:30,239
you know, if you're doing the

1295
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,800
right markets, if you're, if

1296
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:32,600
you're saying, okay, I'm going

1297
00:34:32,599 --> 00:34:34,940
to tackle like custom upscale

1298
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:35,760
weddings,

1299
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,219
you can do that on a smaller

1300
00:34:38,219 --> 00:34:39,019
scale.

1301
00:34:40,099 --> 00:34:41,699
CSAs, wholesale, for that kind

1302
00:34:41,699 --> 00:34:42,500
of stuff you want bigger

1303
00:34:42,460 --> 00:34:43,260
property.

1304
00:34:43,619 --> 00:34:44,739
And then also limit the number

1305
00:34:44,739 --> 00:34:47,139
of varieties that you're growing

1306
00:34:47,139 --> 00:34:47,940
the first year.

1307
00:34:47,860 --> 00:34:48,820
Because flower farming, it can

1308
00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:50,420
be easy to start like, okay, I'm

1309
00:34:50,420 --> 00:34:52,000
going to grow 50 different

1310
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,159
things in one space because

1311
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:54,320
there's so many beautiful

1312
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,239
flowers and choices.

1313
00:34:56,039 --> 00:34:56,860
But really,

1314
00:34:57,539 --> 00:34:59,179
it would be best to focus on,

1315
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:00,579
you know, five for your first

1316
00:35:00,579 --> 00:35:01,940
season and really learn to grow

1317
00:35:01,940 --> 00:35:03,539
them well and then branch out

1318
00:35:03,539 --> 00:35:04,679
and find out, okay, here's the

1319
00:35:04,679 --> 00:35:05,980
gaps maybe that I need to fill

1320
00:35:05,980 --> 00:35:06,780
in.

1321
00:35:07,619 --> 00:35:08,619
It just occurs to me, I was

1322
00:35:08,619 --> 00:35:10,159
about to move to the

1323
00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:11,219
conversation about the Minnesota

1324
00:35:11,219 --> 00:35:13,400
operation, but one of the things

1325
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,260
that we missed talking about is

1326
00:35:15,260 --> 00:35:17,280
you spoke about how insect

1327
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,420
pressure has declined.

1328
00:35:18,519 --> 00:35:19,360
You no longer have the threat

1329
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:20,160
pressure and some of the other

1330
00:35:20,099 --> 00:35:20,900
things.

1331
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,400
And, and we didn't really speak

1332
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:23,280
about disease pressure.

1333
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,199
How has disease pressure changed

1334
00:35:25,199 --> 00:35:26,000
over time?

1335
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,559
The only thing that we still

1336
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:30,539
battle is powdery mildew on the

1337
00:35:30,539 --> 00:35:32,360
peonies. And actually I got some

1338
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,800
of the pinyon in the fall,

1339
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,119
which was like a game changer

1340
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:37,920
for me.

1341
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:38,680
Yes.

1342
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:41,769
So what happened?

1343
00:35:42,929 --> 00:35:43,730
You know,

1344
00:35:43,820 --> 00:35:45,280
so I treated, I treated with the

1345
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,900
pinyon in the fall and we all, I

1346
00:35:47,900 --> 00:35:49,360
mean the powdery mildew was

1347
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:50,160
already

1348
00:35:51,150 --> 00:35:51,950
pretty heavy at that point.

1349
00:35:52,050 --> 00:35:52,969
It's just very common in

1350
00:35:52,969 --> 00:35:53,769
peonies.

1351
00:35:53,369 --> 00:35:54,250
And that really isn't like a

1352
00:35:54,250 --> 00:35:55,050
smell.

1353
00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:55,730
It's just like, it's like, you

1354
00:35:55,730 --> 00:35:56,849
know, you just, at some point in

1355
00:35:56,849 --> 00:35:58,269
the season, you probably get it.

1356
00:35:59,650 --> 00:36:02,389
And within, I'd say within two

1357
00:36:03,150 --> 00:36:03,950
weeks,

1358
00:36:04,070 --> 00:36:05,110
the plant, I mean, they looked

1359
00:36:05,110 --> 00:36:06,449
almost like back to what they

1360
00:36:06,449 --> 00:36:07,409
look like in the spring.

1361
00:36:07,909 --> 00:36:09,150
I didn't even know you tried it.

1362
00:36:09,489 --> 00:36:11,349
I did. I got the special like

1363
00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:14,269
before it was even out

1364
00:36:14,269 --> 00:36:15,070
there.

1365
00:36:15,469 --> 00:36:16,429
Katie brought it over.

1366
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:18,860
one of the AA employees brought

1367
00:36:18,860 --> 00:36:19,900
it over like in a little jar,

1368
00:36:20,019 --> 00:36:20,820
like a little honey jar.

1369
00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:21,980
She's like, it's not honey,

1370
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:22,880
don't.

1371
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,860
So that, but that's the only,

1372
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:29,860
we don't deal with, we used to

1373
00:36:29,860 --> 00:36:30,660
deal with

1374
00:36:31,619 --> 00:36:32,579
I mean, even, you know, we grow

1375
00:36:32,579 --> 00:36:34,280
produce, so like things like

1376
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:35,080
blossom end rot.

1377
00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:35,960
I mean, some of that has just

1378
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:36,760
been learning

1379
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,760
planting times and watering

1380
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,059
methods, but I haven't had,

1381
00:36:41,860 --> 00:36:43,099
gosh, I haven't had a fungus

1382
00:36:43,099 --> 00:36:44,179
issue in

1383
00:36:44,780 --> 00:36:45,580
five years.

1384
00:36:46,219 --> 00:36:47,639
And it used to be things like,

1385
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:48,519
oh,

1386
00:36:48,639 --> 00:36:50,239
botrytis, we would get a lot,

1387
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,179
especially with the colder

1388
00:36:52,179 --> 00:36:53,340
season flowers.

1389
00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:55,409
I haven't seen this.

1390
00:36:55,550 --> 00:36:56,510
I haven't had to deal with

1391
00:36:56,510 --> 00:36:57,530
anything other than powdery

1392
00:36:57,530 --> 00:36:58,330
mildew for years.

1393
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:00,380
And even the powdery mildew is,

1394
00:37:00,670 --> 00:37:02,070
it's only the peonies.

1395
00:37:02,190 --> 00:37:02,990
It's only the peonies.

1396
00:37:02,929 --> 00:37:03,730
Yeah.

1397
00:37:04,670 --> 00:37:06,510
Well, I predict, I predict the

1398
00:37:06,510 --> 00:37:07,389
day will come when you won't

1399
00:37:07,389 --> 00:37:08,329
need pinion on the peonies

1400
00:37:08,329 --> 00:37:09,130
anymore either.

1401
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:10,340
I hope so.

1402
00:37:10,420 --> 00:37:11,659
I'm waiting for that day.

1403
00:37:14,449 --> 00:37:15,250
Yeah.

1404
00:37:14,829 --> 00:37:15,630
So

1405
00:37:15,489 --> 00:37:17,550
let's, let's get into the

1406
00:37:17,550 --> 00:37:18,829
Minnesota operation a little

1407
00:37:18,829 --> 00:37:19,630
bit.

1408
00:37:20,030 --> 00:37:21,170
Are you still primarily corn and

1409
00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:21,970
soybeans?

1410
00:37:22,309 --> 00:37:23,210
Yeah. Yes.

1411
00:37:23,289 --> 00:37:24,210
It's one of the things that I've

1412
00:37:24,210 --> 00:37:25,170
been struggling with because

1413
00:37:25,170 --> 00:37:25,989
obviously soybean,

1414
00:37:26,530 --> 00:37:27,610
I mean, both markets right now

1415
00:37:27,610 --> 00:37:28,469
are very volatile.

1416
00:37:30,289 --> 00:37:31,090
Soybeans.

1417
00:37:32,190 --> 00:37:34,130
You are on the opposite ends of

1418
00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:35,349
the spectrum. You have flour

1419
00:37:35,349 --> 00:37:36,650
production on one end of the

1420
00:37:36,650 --> 00:37:37,690
spectrum and then mainstream

1421
00:37:37,690 --> 00:37:38,670
commodities on the other.

1422
00:37:38,789 --> 00:37:40,110
That must be quite the yo -yo.

1423
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:42,050
It's bizarre because, yeah, on

1424
00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:43,010
the retail side, you know,

1425
00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:44,289
retail, I have total control

1426
00:37:44,289 --> 00:37:45,090
over my pricing.

1427
00:37:45,329 --> 00:37:46,889
I have total control over, you

1428
00:37:46,889 --> 00:37:47,889
know, all of this stuff.

1429
00:37:47,909 --> 00:37:51,130
And then I pivot to to the corn

1430
00:37:51,130 --> 00:37:52,329
and soybeans. And it's like, oh,

1431
00:37:52,510 --> 00:37:53,969
you don't set your pricing.

1432
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:55,889
You don't really market your.

1433
00:37:56,090 --> 00:37:57,469
I mean, you do to an extent, but

1434
00:37:57,469 --> 00:37:59,219
it's not marketing, you know,

1435
00:37:59,260 --> 00:38:01,800
like I market my flowers wildly

1436
00:38:02,300 --> 00:38:03,340
different and wildly different.

1437
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:04,820
How out of control I feel like

1438
00:38:04,820 --> 00:38:05,620
it is.

1439
00:38:06,539 --> 00:38:07,920
So that's been a struggle.

1440
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,760
It's also just been even just

1441
00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:15,000
getting people

1442
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:16,560
to

1443
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,820
work with me on it.

1444
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,699
It's in an area where it's very

1445
00:38:20,699 --> 00:38:21,500
conventional.

1446
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:24,000
They're actually, they just

1447
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,019
built an oak. up there that's

1448
00:38:26,019 --> 00:38:26,820
opening this spring.

1449
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:27,719
So I'm really excited about

1450
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:28,519
that.

1451
00:38:29,260 --> 00:38:30,060
Yeah,

1452
00:38:29,980 --> 00:38:31,639
yeah. So that'll open up a new

1453
00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:33,199
market opportunity for oats,

1454
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:34,500
which is fabulous because this

1455
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:35,699
is, again, like one of those

1456
00:38:35,699 --> 00:38:36,500
things that people are like,

1457
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:37,360
well, why don't the farmers just

1458
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:38,260
grow something else?

1459
00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:39,300
It's like, well,

1460
00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:40,780
if there's no mill to take it

1461
00:38:40,780 --> 00:38:41,580
to,

1462
00:38:42,199 --> 00:38:43,840
you know, I think a lot of

1463
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:44,640
people again, they don't

1464
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:45,880
understand like really the way

1465
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,460
that marketing these huge crops

1466
00:38:47,460 --> 00:38:48,260
works.

1467
00:38:48,380 --> 00:38:50,159
And if there's no mill for us to

1468
00:38:50,159 --> 00:38:51,360
take, I want to grow a small

1469
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:52,160
grain.

1470
00:38:52,039 --> 00:38:53,539
But if I can't, if I don't have

1471
00:38:53,539 --> 00:38:55,139
a mill to sell it to,

1472
00:38:56,199 --> 00:38:57,099
you're out of luck.

1473
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,619
So I struggle between I want to

1474
00:38:59,619 --> 00:39:00,420
do corn and soybeans.

1475
00:39:00,599 --> 00:39:01,719
I'd like to integrate a small

1476
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:02,800
grain. I would love to do a

1477
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:03,940
perennial wheat like Kernza.

1478
00:39:05,380 --> 00:39:06,659
I struggle with that.

1479
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,840
But on the other hand, I want to

1480
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,360
still do what most farmers are

1481
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,400
doing and show these practices

1482
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,480
and these processes in

1483
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,380
a way that people can be like,

1484
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:17,440
OK, well, I know I'm going to

1485
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:18,539
grow soybeans because they all

1486
00:39:18,539 --> 00:39:19,500
still are going to probably grow

1487
00:39:19,500 --> 00:39:20,300
soybeans.

1488
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,300
So how can we show these

1489
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:23,059
practices in

1490
00:39:23,530 --> 00:39:25,230
a way that people will still

1491
00:39:25,230 --> 00:39:26,030
relate to?

1492
00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:27,590
And you

1493
00:39:27,940 --> 00:39:28,840
mentioned at the beginning of

1494
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,059
our conversation that you have

1495
00:39:31,059 --> 00:39:32,119
been doing some experimentation.

1496
00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:32,940
You've been gradually

1497
00:39:32,940 --> 00:39:34,639
transitioning various sections

1498
00:39:34,639 --> 00:39:35,840
at a time as you've gained more

1499
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:36,640
experience.

1500
00:39:37,639 --> 00:39:38,960
What have been some of the

1501
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:39,980
things that you've tried and

1502
00:39:39,980 --> 00:39:41,579
what does that transition look

1503
00:39:41,579 --> 00:39:42,619
like? What's the process been

1504
00:39:42,619 --> 00:39:43,420
like?

1505
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,300
You know, I had this, of course,

1506
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:46,920
I've been working with ad

1507
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,179
consultants at AEA.

1508
00:39:49,739 --> 00:39:50,599
And, you

1509
00:39:51,010 --> 00:39:51,889
know, I think

1510
00:39:52,369 --> 00:39:53,590
I was torn because I listened to

1511
00:39:53,590 --> 00:39:54,710
your podcast, obviously, and I

1512
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:55,789
know a lot of the conversation

1513
00:39:55,789 --> 00:39:56,969
is often about this gradual

1514
00:39:56,969 --> 00:39:57,769
transition,

1515
00:39:58,010 --> 00:39:59,050
and that it doesn't have to be

1516
00:39:59,050 --> 00:39:59,949
this all at once thing.

1517
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:02,039
For me,

1518
00:40:03,130 --> 00:40:04,530
I have,

1519
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:05,700
thankfully,

1520
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,059
basically our YouTube supporters

1521
00:40:07,059 --> 00:40:08,340
or YouTube viewers are paying

1522
00:40:08,340 --> 00:40:09,159
for this project.

1523
00:40:10,460 --> 00:40:12,780
So I don't have the pressure of,

1524
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,739
OK, on this 20 acres,

1525
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,219
I have to make sure that I make

1526
00:40:18,219 --> 00:40:19,019
x dollar.

1527
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,219
I want some more money.

1528
00:40:20,380 --> 00:40:21,460
in the soil health stuff.

1529
00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:22,880
So for me, I kind of jumped in.

1530
00:40:23,219 --> 00:40:25,320
I was like, we're going non -GMO

1531
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,360
corn. We're going totally

1532
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:28,380
herbicide free.

1533
00:40:28,619 --> 00:40:30,199
We're going no fungicide.

1534
00:40:30,539 --> 00:40:31,340
We're going

1535
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:34,960
half or two thirds of

1536
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,320
nitrogen application all at

1537
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,120
once, right?

1538
00:40:39,659 --> 00:40:41,280
So - Okay, you said a couple of

1539
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:42,159
things there that are pretty

1540
00:40:42,159 --> 00:40:44,159
intriguing. No herbicide and no

1541
00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:44,960
fungicide.

1542
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:46,760
That's quite the cliff to jump

1543
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,699
off of. It was a huge cliff.

1544
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,179
And part of it was because,

1545
00:40:53,349 --> 00:40:55,030
as I mentioned, there is this,

1546
00:40:55,449 --> 00:40:56,750
and it's one of those things

1547
00:40:56,750 --> 00:40:57,849
that I think that farmers do

1548
00:40:57,849 --> 00:40:58,989
struggle with. Like, okay, yeah,

1549
00:40:59,010 --> 00:41:00,150
I have 1 .5 million people

1550
00:41:00,150 --> 00:41:00,969
watching me do this.

1551
00:41:01,579 --> 00:41:03,719
if I go in and I start doing

1552
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,559
regenerative practices and I'm

1553
00:41:05,559 --> 00:41:06,639
using a GMO corn,

1554
00:41:07,570 --> 00:41:08,409
there is going to be a

1555
00:41:08,409 --> 00:41:09,949
conception, a perception there,

1556
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:11,639
whether it's true or not,

1557
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,039
there's going to be a perception

1558
00:41:13,039 --> 00:41:14,679
there that, well, you're not

1559
00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:15,980
really doing it regeneratively.

1560
00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:18,429
Or if I show herbicide,

1561
00:41:18,730 --> 00:41:19,610
they're going to be like, well,

1562
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:20,530
you're not really, you know,

1563
00:41:20,670 --> 00:41:21,789
this isn't really good for the

1564
00:41:21,789 --> 00:41:22,590
ecosystem.

1565
00:41:22,630 --> 00:41:25,650
So it's a mix of trying to do

1566
00:41:26,059 --> 00:41:27,159
it in a way that's really going

1567
00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:28,739
to truly appeal to people, but

1568
00:41:29,099 --> 00:41:30,460
The other side of it is that I

1569
00:41:30,460 --> 00:41:32,099
kind of wanted to show like, oh,

1570
00:41:32,179 --> 00:41:33,780
here's what didn't work when we

1571
00:41:33,780 --> 00:41:34,580
did that.

1572
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,139
Here's why sometimes that can be

1573
00:41:37,139 --> 00:41:38,800
not the best.

1574
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,139
An example of that would be like

1575
00:41:41,139 --> 00:41:42,539
our water we have.

1576
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:43,720
waterhemp,

1577
00:41:43,860 --> 00:41:45,260
especially in one like, we call

1578
00:41:45,260 --> 00:41:47,039
it the little boot of the farm.

1579
00:41:47,179 --> 00:41:48,400
And it's like the tip of the

1580
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:49,380
boot, and it's right by the

1581
00:41:49,380 --> 00:41:51,099
creek. So we've got CRP land

1582
00:41:51,099 --> 00:41:52,400
there, obviously, there's a lot

1583
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,679
of seeds and stuff over there.

1584
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,679
So the waterhemp started, I had

1585
00:41:56,679 --> 00:41:58,239
said, you know, nowhere beside.

1586
00:41:59,019 --> 00:42:01,900
So the waterhemp started coming.

1587
00:42:02,699 --> 00:42:04,679
And this is where like, I'd

1588
00:42:04,679 --> 00:42:06,000
wanted, ideally, we would have

1589
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,039
gotten our cover crop in

1590
00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:07,840
earlier.

1591
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:08,880
And we would have had it

1592
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,179
interseeded into the corn at

1593
00:42:10,179 --> 00:42:11,400
like V6.

1594
00:42:12,110 --> 00:42:13,010
we didn't get there.

1595
00:42:13,530 --> 00:42:15,090
And so it wasn't that easy.

1596
00:42:15,110 --> 00:42:16,429
there when I needed it to help

1597
00:42:16,429 --> 00:42:17,610
keep

1598
00:42:18,690 --> 00:42:19,610
that weed pressure down.

1599
00:42:19,949 --> 00:42:21,190
So that waterhemp was taller

1600
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:21,990
than the corn,

1601
00:42:22,110 --> 00:42:23,170
especially in that one area.

1602
00:42:23,250 --> 00:42:24,789
Of course, we took a hit on that

1603
00:42:24,789 --> 00:42:26,130
on yield for sure.

1604
00:42:27,250 --> 00:42:28,730
That was one of those situations

1605
00:42:28,730 --> 00:42:29,710
where it was like, okay, well,

1606
00:42:29,789 --> 00:42:31,010
maybe we start with

1607
00:42:32,260 --> 00:42:33,980
we keep the herbicide, you know,

1608
00:42:34,059 --> 00:42:34,880
for the first couple of years

1609
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,340
while we are getting this cover

1610
00:42:37,340 --> 00:42:39,159
crop system down and really

1611
00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:40,480
nailed down in the timing.

1612
00:42:41,199 --> 00:42:43,139
And then once we get that down,

1613
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:44,260
then, then, okay, we can start

1614
00:42:44,260 --> 00:42:45,360
to eliminate these other things.

1615
00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:47,000
I was really happy with how it

1616
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,199
performs still fungicide

1617
00:42:48,199 --> 00:42:49,000
without,

1618
00:42:49,059 --> 00:42:50,780
I mean, we had very little

1619
00:42:50,780 --> 00:42:51,580
fungus issue.

1620
00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:53,159
I did do double spacing on the

1621
00:42:53,159 --> 00:42:53,960
rows.

1622
00:42:53,519 --> 00:42:54,719
So we did a 60 inch corn.

1623
00:42:55,420 --> 00:42:57,099
We did both. We did a 30 and a

1624
00:42:57,099 --> 00:42:57,900
60.

1625
00:42:58,420 --> 00:42:59,820
The 60 inch corn,

1626
00:43:00,519 --> 00:43:02,119
just the air circulation in and

1627
00:43:02,119 --> 00:43:04,039
of itself, I think helped quite

1628
00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:04,840
a bit.

1629
00:43:05,199 --> 00:43:06,000
There's southern.

1630
00:43:06,219 --> 00:43:07,699
Did you keep the same plant

1631
00:43:07,699 --> 00:43:08,860
population on 60 inches?

1632
00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:10,360
We did. We kept the same

1633
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:11,320
population for both.

1634
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,280
I think we did 30,

1635
00:43:13,329 --> 00:43:14,369
32 ,000 maybe.

1636
00:43:15,289 --> 00:43:16,349
Unfortunately, we didn't do twin

1637
00:43:16,349 --> 00:43:17,150
row.

1638
00:43:16,989 --> 00:43:18,949
Our farmer's planter was not set

1639
00:43:18,949 --> 00:43:21,230
up for it. So it was, you know,

1640
00:43:21,309 --> 00:43:23,570
it was pretty tight in there.

1641
00:43:24,190 --> 00:43:25,550
But interestingly, I mean, the

1642
00:43:25,550 --> 00:43:26,550
patches where

1643
00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:27,940
In the 60,

1644
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,860
the patches where there wasn't

1645
00:43:29,860 --> 00:43:30,660
the weed pressure,

1646
00:43:30,940 --> 00:43:32,599
we were yielding 220 bushels.

1647
00:43:34,539 --> 00:43:35,340
So,

1648
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:37,260
I was pretty happy with that.

1649
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:38,940
You know, in terms of, again,

1650
00:43:39,039 --> 00:43:40,219
because we were able to cut the

1651
00:43:40,219 --> 00:43:41,500
fungicide and the benefit of

1652
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:44,019
that 60 -inch row was that we

1653
00:43:44,019 --> 00:43:45,440
could get cover crop growth

1654
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:47,699
outside of the season we

1655
00:43:47,699 --> 00:43:49,039
typically can in Minnesota.

1656
00:43:49,260 --> 00:43:50,060
You know, Minnesota

1657
00:43:51,179 --> 00:43:52,380
shorter growing season.

1658
00:43:52,619 --> 00:43:53,920
So usually the struggle that we

1659
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,280
had and our farmers had tried

1660
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,139
cover cropping in the shoulders,

1661
00:43:57,420 --> 00:43:59,000
but when you're dealing with,

1662
00:43:59,079 --> 00:44:00,139
okay, we can cover crop after

1663
00:44:00,139 --> 00:44:02,380
November and we need to do it by

1664
00:44:02,380 --> 00:44:04,260
April, the growth you're getting

1665
00:44:04,260 --> 00:44:05,199
is just so minimal.

1666
00:44:05,969 --> 00:44:07,070
So that's when we started doing

1667
00:44:07,070 --> 00:44:08,130
the inner cropping instead.

1668
00:44:08,650 --> 00:44:10,070
And gosh, I was so happy.

1669
00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:10,880
with

1670
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,239
how it performed,

1671
00:44:12,539 --> 00:44:14,369
both in a biodiversity

1672
00:44:14,369 --> 00:44:15,170
standpoint,

1673
00:44:15,449 --> 00:44:16,809
but also interestingly, I think

1674
00:44:16,809 --> 00:44:17,849
it opens it up, and I'm sure

1675
00:44:17,849 --> 00:44:18,949
you've had people on before that

1676
00:44:18,949 --> 00:44:19,789
do the 60,

1677
00:44:20,369 --> 00:44:23,059
shift it over for the next year,

1678
00:44:23,139 --> 00:44:24,380
plant the corn into the cover

1679
00:44:24,380 --> 00:44:25,180
crop residue,

1680
00:44:25,619 --> 00:44:26,860
and they do corn on corn.

1681
00:44:27,079 --> 00:44:27,880
I mean, that's

1682
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:29,929
when you're bringing in a 10

1683
00:44:29,929 --> 00:44:31,510
species cover crop mix, you've

1684
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:32,849
got biodiversity there.

1685
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:34,349
you know, as long as you're not

1686
00:44:34,349 --> 00:44:35,150
dealing with something with

1687
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:36,429
cornworm, it's something doable

1688
00:44:36,429 --> 00:44:37,909
that we could start looking at.

1689
00:44:38,469 --> 00:44:39,269
So

1690
00:44:39,369 --> 00:44:40,909
again, I don't want to do a lot

1691
00:44:40,909 --> 00:44:43,610
of monoculture, but it's kind of

1692
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,380
the reality of the system again.

1693
00:44:46,989 --> 00:44:48,289
What happened after the

1694
00:44:48,289 --> 00:44:49,650
waterhemp experience?

1695
00:44:49,909 --> 00:44:51,309
I'm not sure exactly when that

1696
00:44:51,309 --> 00:44:53,369
happened, but I'm curious, have

1697
00:44:53,369 --> 00:44:54,230
you had any follow -up

1698
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:55,369
experiences where you were able

1699
00:44:55,369 --> 00:44:56,369
to get cover crops planted

1700
00:44:56,369 --> 00:44:58,369
earlier and perhaps regain some

1701
00:44:58,369 --> 00:44:59,409
degree of control over that?

1702
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,420
So what we're trying out, what

1703
00:45:01,420 --> 00:45:02,940
we're trying this year is we're

1704
00:45:02,940 --> 00:45:04,320
basically doing an early

1705
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,960
planting. We're doing a very

1706
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,519
dense planting of soybeans.

1707
00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:09,820
So we are doing soybeans again

1708
00:45:09,820 --> 00:45:10,620
this year.

1709
00:45:11,099 --> 00:45:12,420
We had thought about maybe

1710
00:45:12,420 --> 00:45:13,220
trying oats.

1711
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:14,179
I think that might be something

1712
00:45:14,179 --> 00:45:15,360
we get into for next year.

1713
00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:18,420
So we're doing a much higher

1714
00:45:18,420 --> 00:45:19,800
population, especially in that

1715
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:20,600
area.

1716
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,179
I am kind of of the mind of

1717
00:45:22,179 --> 00:45:23,699
like, okay, we've gotten this

1718
00:45:23,699 --> 00:45:24,500
far.

1719
00:45:24,699 --> 00:45:26,119
We've done, you know, under our

1720
00:45:26,119 --> 00:45:27,679
belt now without herbicide.

1721
00:45:28,610 --> 00:45:30,289
let's see how it does another

1722
00:45:30,289 --> 00:45:31,090
year,

1723
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:33,920
you know, maybe we'll do a pre

1724
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,980
-emerge, it's possible we'll try

1725
00:45:35,980 --> 00:45:37,000
that if it looks like.

1726
00:45:37,679 --> 00:45:39,079
And just for clarification, when

1727
00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:39,900
you've been going without

1728
00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:41,219
herbicide, has there been any

1729
00:45:41,219 --> 00:45:42,019
tillage in the system?

1730
00:45:42,949 --> 00:45:45,030
Not till, it's been two years no

1731
00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:45,830
till.

1732
00:45:45,929 --> 00:45:46,730
Okay.

1733
00:45:47,489 --> 00:45:49,750
And I'm curious, earlier in our

1734
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:51,889
conversation, we spoke about the

1735
00:45:51,889 --> 00:45:54,449
somewhat vitriolic reaction that

1736
00:45:54,449 --> 00:45:56,010
can occur on social media when

1737
00:45:56,010 --> 00:45:58,710
farmers and when you speak about

1738
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:59,789
the use of herbicides and so

1739
00:45:59,789 --> 00:46:00,590
forth.

1740
00:46:00,550 --> 00:46:02,070
So what has the counterpoint to

1741
00:46:02,070 --> 00:46:04,630
that been? What has the response

1742
00:46:04,630 --> 00:46:05,829
been? when you've

1743
00:46:06,269 --> 00:46:08,469
showed that this is what we did

1744
00:46:08,940 --> 00:46:10,679
and the

1745
00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:12,039
results in this particular

1746
00:46:12,039 --> 00:46:13,300
scenario were less than ideal?

1747
00:46:14,739 --> 00:46:15,539
So,

1748
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:16,380
you know, it's interesting

1749
00:46:16,380 --> 00:46:17,380
because I

1750
00:46:18,519 --> 00:46:19,320
think people,

1751
00:46:19,659 --> 00:46:20,460
I

1752
00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:22,239
don't think people like your

1753
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:23,539
average consumer

1754
00:46:23,980 --> 00:46:26,039
understands quite as much, you

1755
00:46:26,039 --> 00:46:26,840
know,

1756
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:27,980
the farmers, I think would look

1757
00:46:27,980 --> 00:46:29,019
at that and be like, okay, yeah,

1758
00:46:29,019 --> 00:46:30,039
you took a yield hit.

1759
00:46:32,119 --> 00:46:33,019
probably not something I'm going

1760
00:46:33,019 --> 00:46:33,820
to do.

1761
00:46:34,579 --> 00:46:36,480
An average consumer looks at it

1762
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:37,280
differently.

1763
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,159
And they look at it, and they're

1764
00:46:39,159 --> 00:46:40,019
like, wow, this is great.

1765
00:46:40,099 --> 00:46:40,900
Look, it can be done.

1766
00:46:40,980 --> 00:46:42,559
But they don't, again, it's one

1767
00:46:42,559 --> 00:46:43,880
of those things where they don't

1768
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,460
understand that a

1769
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,940
20 bushel an acre difference can

1770
00:46:48,940 --> 00:46:50,280
be the difference between profit

1771
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:51,099
and not profit.

1772
00:46:51,579 --> 00:46:53,679
And if that's the difference

1773
00:46:53,679 --> 00:46:55,039
that you get with a hit from

1774
00:46:55,039 --> 00:46:57,219
waterhemp, then yeah, your

1775
00:46:57,219 --> 00:46:58,019
average farmer is going to look

1776
00:46:58,019 --> 00:46:58,820
at that and be like,

1777
00:46:59,159 --> 00:46:59,960
No,

1778
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:01,820
not can be. It's not can be the

1779
00:47:01,820 --> 00:47:03,039
difference. It is the difference

1780
00:47:03,039 --> 00:47:04,179
between red or black.

1781
00:47:04,940 --> 00:47:06,320
Especially in this market, yeah.

1782
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:07,320
I mean, it's a five bushel

1783
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:08,120
difference, right?

1784
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,159
It can be, yeah, anything.

1785
00:47:10,420 --> 00:47:12,429
And so I think this year will be

1786
00:47:12,429 --> 00:47:13,710
interesting. I mean, side note,

1787
00:47:13,789 --> 00:47:14,590
but I think this year will be

1788
00:47:14,530 --> 00:47:15,330
interesting with fertilizer

1789
00:47:15,309 --> 00:47:17,389
prices and to

1790
00:47:17,769 --> 00:47:19,210
see if that's still the

1791
00:47:19,869 --> 00:47:21,530
case, to see if it's still worth

1792
00:47:21,530 --> 00:47:23,670
putting on all the inputs for

1793
00:47:23,670 --> 00:47:24,470
what

1794
00:47:24,730 --> 00:47:25,909
the price is. I don't know,

1795
00:47:26,110 --> 00:47:27,630
things that keep me up at night.

1796
00:47:28,849 --> 00:47:30,469
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a

1797
00:47:30,469 --> 00:47:32,429
big gap between people who

1798
00:47:32,429 --> 00:47:34,710
really are in the farming world

1799
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:36,170
and know what the dollars and

1800
00:47:36,170 --> 00:47:37,929
cents are and the people who are

1801
00:47:37,929 --> 00:47:39,989
looking at this and saying like,

1802
00:47:40,050 --> 00:47:40,850
oh, everyone should be doing

1803
00:47:40,730 --> 00:47:41,530
regenerative.

1804
00:47:43,849 --> 00:47:44,650
It's,

1805
00:47:44,789 --> 00:47:46,510
they, it's very hard and it was

1806
00:47:46,510 --> 00:47:47,530
one of those things I'm trying

1807
00:47:47,530 --> 00:47:50,489
to bridge is like, here is why,

1808
00:47:50,489 --> 00:47:52,190
when you look at this giant

1809
00:47:52,190 --> 00:47:53,750
waterhemp patch and how we had

1810
00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:55,789
to like, even combining that,

1811
00:47:56,030 --> 00:47:57,829
how difficult it was and that

1812
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:58,949
was more labor intensive.

1813
00:47:59,659 --> 00:48:01,179
And yeah, you can't do that on 4

1814
00:48:01,179 --> 00:48:01,980
,000 acres.

1815
00:48:02,420 --> 00:48:03,220
I

1816
00:48:03,780 --> 00:48:04,800
have a question that I'd like to

1817
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:05,900
get your perspective on.

1818
00:48:06,099 --> 00:48:06,940
That's a question that I've been

1819
00:48:06,940 --> 00:48:08,360
thinking a lot about recently.

1820
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:10,460
We understand

1821
00:48:11,159 --> 00:48:13,659
that there are many growers who

1822
00:48:13,659 --> 00:48:14,460
are,

1823
00:48:15,639 --> 00:48:16,659
for a variety of reasons,

1824
00:48:17,489 --> 00:48:19,210
some imaginary and many real,

1825
00:48:20,130 --> 00:48:21,010
are feeling stuck.

1826
00:48:21,679 --> 00:48:22,539
they're feeling stuck.

1827
00:48:22,659 --> 00:48:23,679
They can only produce,

1828
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,219
in the case that you described

1829
00:48:25,219 --> 00:48:26,019
logistically,

1830
00:48:26,119 --> 00:48:27,420
if you want to produce something

1831
00:48:27,420 --> 00:48:28,280
other than corn and soybeans,

1832
00:48:28,380 --> 00:48:29,440
you have nowhere to go with it.

1833
00:48:29,860 --> 00:48:31,320
There are many growers in that

1834
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,039
scenario and there's a wide

1835
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:36,320
array of very real reasons

1836
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,159
why they feel stuck.

1837
00:48:39,219 --> 00:48:41,000
And you see, you have the

1838
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:41,800
benefit of having

1839
00:48:42,170 --> 00:48:44,309
a different perspective as well,

1840
00:48:44,429 --> 00:48:45,369
where you

1841
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:47,940
have a very successful flower

1842
00:48:48,159 --> 00:48:49,239
farm enterprise, a very

1843
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:50,139
different environment, very

1844
00:48:50,139 --> 00:48:50,940
different context.

1845
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,019
When you think about

1846
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,960
I suppose the question is for

1847
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,039
farmers who truly want to opt

1848
00:49:01,039 --> 00:49:02,639
out, they want to go in a

1849
00:49:02,639 --> 00:49:03,440
different direction,

1850
00:49:03,659 --> 00:49:05,980
but they have no idea how to do

1851
00:49:05,980 --> 00:49:06,960
that or where to begin.

1852
00:49:07,789 --> 00:49:09,090
I'm so glad you asked that.

1853
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:10,349
I think that's a great question

1854
00:49:10,349 --> 00:49:11,469
and I think it's something that

1855
00:49:11,989 --> 00:49:13,289
a lot of viewers might,

1856
00:49:14,110 --> 00:49:14,910
you know, it's something that

1857
00:49:14,769 --> 00:49:15,570
I've been thinking about,

1858
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:17,230
because again, I look at it, I

1859
00:49:17,230 --> 00:49:18,110
look at all of this from a

1860
00:49:18,110 --> 00:49:19,369
business perspective, just like

1861
00:49:19,369 --> 00:49:20,949
every farmer, I think does to a

1862
00:49:20,949 --> 00:49:23,030
certain extent of like, yeah,

1863
00:49:23,050 --> 00:49:24,469
this has to be profitable for

1864
00:49:24,469 --> 00:49:25,510
us, this has to be profitable

1865
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:26,710
for future generations.

1866
00:49:27,590 --> 00:49:29,429
And at the same time, looking at

1867
00:49:29,429 --> 00:49:30,550
there is this interesting

1868
00:49:30,550 --> 00:49:34,019
context of people who want to

1869
00:49:34,019 --> 00:49:35,460
know their farmers, people who

1870
00:49:35,460 --> 00:49:37,320
have an interest in buying

1871
00:49:37,969 --> 00:49:40,150
food that is being grown in this

1872
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:41,869
way and knowing that the

1873
00:49:41,869 --> 00:49:43,670
nutritional difference is, is

1874
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:44,470
significant.

1875
00:49:44,809 --> 00:49:46,909
And so you have this opportunity

1876
00:49:46,909 --> 00:49:48,269
of, okay, we've got the consumer

1877
00:49:48,269 --> 00:49:49,869
who wants it. We've got the

1878
00:49:49,869 --> 00:49:51,429
farmer who is working now within

1879
00:49:51,429 --> 00:49:52,969
the system that is not working

1880
00:49:52,969 --> 00:49:53,769
anymore.

1881
00:49:54,369 --> 00:49:55,750
And how do we those two things

1882
00:49:55,750 --> 00:49:56,550
together?

1883
00:49:57,300 --> 00:49:58,719
I think there are some people

1884
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:00,940
doing some work in this space in

1885
00:50:00,940 --> 00:50:02,739
creating apps and that kind of

1886
00:50:02,739 --> 00:50:04,480
thing that connect farmers with

1887
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:05,280
consumers.

1888
00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:07,500
I think that what I see

1889
00:50:07,500 --> 00:50:10,159
happening for those who are

1890
00:50:10,159 --> 00:50:11,500
really motivated to do it, maybe

1891
00:50:11,500 --> 00:50:13,179
who have younger generations who

1892
00:50:13,829 --> 00:50:15,050
are questioning whether they

1893
00:50:15,050 --> 00:50:16,190
want to be farming or not

1894
00:50:16,190 --> 00:50:17,349
because of all these issues.

1895
00:50:17,730 --> 00:50:18,710
I think there's a great

1896
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:20,250
opportunity for people to start

1897
00:50:20,250 --> 00:50:22,469
doing converting five acres at a

1898
00:50:22,469 --> 00:50:24,150
time, 10 acres at a time.

1899
00:50:24,789 --> 00:50:25,750
Okay, even if you're not getting

1900
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:26,989
it certified organic, you're

1901
00:50:26,989 --> 00:50:28,630
just going to start growing

1902
00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:30,150
regeneratively on this soil,

1903
00:50:30,389 --> 00:50:31,389
you're going to start dabbling

1904
00:50:31,389 --> 00:50:32,989
with things like heirloom

1905
00:50:32,989 --> 00:50:34,429
wheats, you're going to start

1906
00:50:34,429 --> 00:50:36,230
dabbling with things like oats,

1907
00:50:36,409 --> 00:50:37,550
black oats, you know, the

1908
00:50:37,550 --> 00:50:39,730
specialty crops that there is a

1909
00:50:39,730 --> 00:50:41,969
market for for home for home

1910
00:50:42,889 --> 00:50:44,750
consumers and say, okay, I'm

1911
00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:45,909
going to start doing this at the

1912
00:50:45,909 --> 00:50:46,710
same time.

1913
00:50:46,730 --> 00:50:47,869
I'm going to start making these

1914
00:50:47,869 --> 00:50:50,329
connections with my, with my

1915
00:50:50,329 --> 00:50:51,210
local consumers.

1916
00:50:51,309 --> 00:50:52,110
I'm going to start making

1917
00:50:52,030 --> 00:50:53,269
connections with, I'm going to

1918
00:50:53,269 --> 00:50:55,190
start making this painful social

1919
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:55,990
media posts.

1920
00:50:56,070 --> 00:50:56,870
I'm going to be out in the

1921
00:50:56,789 --> 00:50:57,590
field.

1922
00:50:57,210 --> 00:50:58,030
I'm going to show this.

1923
00:50:58,409 --> 00:50:59,210
Painful you say?

1924
00:51:00,329 --> 00:51:01,130
Just

1925
00:51:01,929 --> 00:51:02,869
a little painful.

1926
00:51:02,969 --> 00:51:04,269
It doesn't have to be painful,

1927
00:51:05,090 --> 00:51:05,949
but you know, I'm going to start

1928
00:51:05,949 --> 00:51:06,750
showing like.

1929
00:51:07,099 --> 00:51:08,059
Perception is reality.

1930
00:51:08,519 --> 00:51:10,079
Perception is sometimes reality.

1931
00:51:11,079 --> 00:51:12,219
Maybe they're going to say like,

1932
00:51:12,380 --> 00:51:14,460
here, I'm going to do a video

1933
00:51:14,460 --> 00:51:15,360
from my

1934
00:51:15,699 --> 00:51:17,820
tractor showing us planting this

1935
00:51:17,820 --> 00:51:19,860
and like showing this beautiful

1936
00:51:19,860 --> 00:51:20,980
farmland. And here's where this

1937
00:51:20,980 --> 00:51:21,780
wheat's going to come from.

1938
00:51:21,820 --> 00:51:23,480
And I'm going to start taking a

1939
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:24,639
list of people who want to buy

1940
00:51:24,639 --> 00:51:25,719
this wheat that I'm growing

1941
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:26,559
regeneratively.

1942
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:27,860
Maybe I have shareholders.

1943
00:51:28,119 --> 00:51:29,699
Maybe I have 20 people who are

1944
00:51:29,699 --> 00:51:31,960
going to help me finance this.

1945
00:51:32,099 --> 00:51:33,780
And in return, at the end of the

1946
00:51:33,780 --> 00:51:34,860
season, they get a five pound

1947
00:51:34,860 --> 00:51:37,440
bag of this beautiful heirloom

1948
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:38,500
wheat that they can mill at

1949
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:39,300
home.

1950
00:51:41,159 --> 00:51:43,980
It's a huge mindset change, I

1951
00:51:43,980 --> 00:51:45,300
think, for a lot of farmers to

1952
00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:47,960
even think about doing retail

1953
00:51:48,309 --> 00:51:49,389
work.

1954
00:51:50,159 --> 00:51:51,559
But the potential,

1955
00:51:52,289 --> 00:51:53,630
especially now,

1956
00:51:54,090 --> 00:51:55,550
early on, I think is huge.

1957
00:51:56,070 --> 00:51:56,870
The

1958
00:51:57,380 --> 00:51:58,980
people who are out there selling

1959
00:51:58,980 --> 00:52:00,780
this like heirloom wheat or even

1960
00:52:00,780 --> 00:52:02,340
doing small scale milling, I

1961
00:52:02,340 --> 00:52:03,380
mean, the amount that they

1962
00:52:03,380 --> 00:52:04,460
charge when you look at how much

1963
00:52:04,460 --> 00:52:05,659
they're charging for five pounds

1964
00:52:05,659 --> 00:52:09,000
of heirloom wheat, there's a

1965
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:09,800
huge opportunity.

1966
00:52:11,070 --> 00:52:12,349
But most of them are not growing

1967
00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:13,469
it themselves. Most of them are

1968
00:52:13,469 --> 00:52:14,929
buying it from another source

1969
00:52:14,929 --> 00:52:15,730
and reselling it.

1970
00:52:15,730 --> 00:52:16,949
But if you can tap into that,

1971
00:52:17,070 --> 00:52:18,230
like people want another farmer,

1972
00:52:18,449 --> 00:52:19,369
they want to see the land where

1973
00:52:19,369 --> 00:52:20,170
it's being grown.

1974
00:52:20,409 --> 00:52:21,670
All these pesticides that have

1975
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:23,869
just been, you know, made that

1976
00:52:23,869 --> 00:52:25,690
the EPA has now said that can be

1977
00:52:25,690 --> 00:52:27,510
used are scary.

1978
00:52:27,809 --> 00:52:29,849
And there's no one knows what's

1979
00:52:29,849 --> 00:52:30,989
going to be on their flower

1980
00:52:30,989 --> 00:52:31,789
anymore.

1981
00:52:32,030 --> 00:52:33,329
People want and people are in

1982
00:52:33,329 --> 00:52:34,130
tune with this.

1983
00:52:33,889 --> 00:52:34,690
They know what's happening.

1984
00:52:35,269 --> 00:52:36,769
They want the opportunity to buy

1985
00:52:36,769 --> 00:52:37,670
the stuff that's not been

1986
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:38,909
treated with it and to buy it

1987
00:52:38,909 --> 00:52:39,789
from someone they trust.

1988
00:52:40,070 --> 00:52:41,269
So I think there's an

1989
00:52:41,269 --> 00:52:42,710
opportunity, but it's going to

1990
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:44,889
take uncomfortable transition

1991
00:52:44,889 --> 00:52:46,789
periods where farmers maybe have

1992
00:52:46,789 --> 00:52:48,530
to learn how to market

1993
00:52:48,900 --> 00:52:51,440
retail, how to ship retail, or

1994
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:52,900
or even if it's partnering with

1995
00:52:52,900 --> 00:52:54,159
someone else who's going to do

1996
00:52:54,159 --> 00:52:55,440
all that shipping and retail

1997
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,389
work for you. But I think

1998
00:52:57,389 --> 00:52:58,949
there's opportunities, but

1999
00:52:59,460 --> 00:53:00,260
it's

2000
00:53:00,260 --> 00:53:01,519
it's uncomfortable growth.

2001
00:53:03,039 --> 00:53:04,460
I'm I'm of the opinion.

2002
00:53:05,820 --> 00:53:07,579
there are perhaps exceptions,

2003
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:08,800
but I'm of the opinion that

2004
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:09,900
generally the

2005
00:53:10,820 --> 00:53:11,620
biggest

2006
00:53:11,809 --> 00:53:14,090
financial opportunities are in

2007
00:53:14,090 --> 00:53:15,869
the smallest scale operations.

2008
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,739
I think there's more,

2009
00:53:21,059 --> 00:53:22,199
for many growers,

2010
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:24,079
there's greater financial

2011
00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:25,880
opportunity in growing one acre

2012
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,840
of wheat and selling it as flour

2013
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:29,519
than there is in growing 50

2014
00:53:29,519 --> 00:53:30,880
acres of wheat and selling it as

2015
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:31,680
grain.

2016
00:53:32,429 --> 00:53:33,469
So there's that value added

2017
00:53:33,469 --> 00:53:34,269
component, there's the

2018
00:53:34,070 --> 00:53:34,929
additional component, but the

2019
00:53:34,929 --> 00:53:35,869
point that you made, when you

2020
00:53:35,869 --> 00:53:37,369
start selling wheat by the pound

2021
00:53:37,369 --> 00:53:38,690
as flour instead of by the

2022
00:53:38,690 --> 00:53:39,490
bushel,

2023
00:53:40,739 --> 00:53:41,539
Yes,

2024
00:53:42,099 --> 00:53:43,119
there is additional labor, there

2025
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:43,920
is additional overhead,

2026
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:45,120
but proportionally

2027
00:53:45,340 --> 00:53:46,920
to the value derived from that

2028
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,980
is completely disproportional.

2029
00:53:49,650 --> 00:53:50,450
And,

2030
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:52,120
um,

2031
00:53:52,550 --> 00:53:53,590
yeah, I have, I have so many

2032
00:53:53,590 --> 00:53:55,570
thoughts on this topic, just as

2033
00:53:55,980 --> 00:53:58,159
a one thing I'll share kind of

2034
00:53:58,409 --> 00:54:00,250
tangentially related, but

2035
00:54:00,750 --> 00:54:01,929
on a, on a personal note,

2036
00:54:02,599 --> 00:54:04,739
um, I want to make certain I

2037
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:06,440
have a five -year -old daughter

2038
00:54:06,820 --> 00:54:09,300
and I care deeply.

2039
00:54:09,300 --> 00:54:10,100
I have,

2040
00:54:10,500 --> 00:54:12,119
I have teeth quality issues

2041
00:54:12,119 --> 00:54:13,099
because of,

2042
00:54:13,590 --> 00:54:15,150
what my diet was like when I was

2043
00:54:15,150 --> 00:54:15,950
growing up.

2044
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:17,460
I want to make sure

2045
00:54:17,809 --> 00:54:19,610
that she is in a very different

2046
00:54:19,610 --> 00:54:20,410
position.

2047
00:54:20,989 --> 00:54:22,010
And so we

2048
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,380
are growing a large proportion

2049
00:54:24,380 --> 00:54:25,180
of our food

2050
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:28,969
and I'm making certain that that

2051
00:54:28,969 --> 00:54:30,210
is extremely mineralized.

2052
00:54:30,369 --> 00:54:31,170
So

2053
00:54:30,889 --> 00:54:33,289
we are growing oats and we are

2054
00:54:33,289 --> 00:54:35,309
growing wheat on a garden scale.

2055
00:54:35,889 --> 00:54:37,210
We're a family of three people.

2056
00:54:37,329 --> 00:54:39,650
I need a bushel or two at most.

2057
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,840
And I'm growing that grain with

2058
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,280
deliberately high doses of

2059
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,079
calcium and boron and zinc and

2060
00:54:47,079 --> 00:54:48,360
all these magnesium, all these

2061
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:49,160
various elements.

2062
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:50,780
We're measuring the nutritional

2063
00:54:50,780 --> 00:54:52,440
content and we are milling our

2064
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,079
own grain. And by the way, I

2065
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:56,420
know for a fact that I can't buy

2066
00:54:56,420 --> 00:54:58,280
grain that has the flavor

2067
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:00,920
and the eating characteristics

2068
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:02,159
that this grain does.

2069
00:55:02,460 --> 00:55:03,840
Even that grown regeneratively

2070
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:05,820
because I'm able to really focus

2071
00:55:05,820 --> 00:55:07,340
on it and really take care of

2072
00:55:07,340 --> 00:55:08,140
it. It's like,

2073
00:55:08,260 --> 00:55:09,539
do you realize, I don't think

2074
00:55:09,539 --> 00:55:10,460
people really grasp

2075
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,110
and don't really know how easy

2076
00:55:13,110 --> 00:55:14,530
it is to grow a bushel of grain

2077
00:55:14,530 --> 00:55:15,330
in a garden.

2078
00:55:15,329 --> 00:55:16,489
It's no harder than growing 20

2079
00:55:16,489 --> 00:55:17,289
tomato plants.

2080
00:55:18,519 --> 00:55:20,000
And so

2081
00:55:21,940 --> 00:55:24,699
I'm a bit of an outlier in the

2082
00:55:24,699 --> 00:55:26,059
sense that I'm willing to go to

2083
00:55:26,059 --> 00:55:27,780
that extreme, to that distance.

2084
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:30,360
But at the same time, there are

2085
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,159
many people who have that same

2086
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:34,440
passion, that same drive, that

2087
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:35,240
same desire.

2088
00:55:35,059 --> 00:55:35,940
They don't necessarily have the

2089
00:55:35,940 --> 00:55:36,860
same capability and the

2090
00:55:36,860 --> 00:55:37,660
resources that I do.

2091
00:55:37,739 --> 00:55:38,539
They don't have the same

2092
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:39,980
knowledge base, but they are

2093
00:55:39,980 --> 00:55:40,780
willing

2094
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,000
they want to set up their

2095
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,000
children for

2096
00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:45,159
success and their grandchildren.

2097
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:46,500
And I think some of the research

2098
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:48,800
that is emerging in medicine of

2099
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,179
the realization that actually we

2100
00:55:51,590 --> 00:55:52,849
determine our

2101
00:55:53,349 --> 00:55:55,750
grandchildren's health by our

2102
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:56,550
diet

2103
00:55:56,699 --> 00:55:58,760
is really starting to

2104
00:55:58,940 --> 00:56:00,320
get

2105
00:56:00,730 --> 00:56:03,210
into the consciousness of a

2106
00:56:03,210 --> 00:56:04,190
larger proportion of the

2107
00:56:04,190 --> 00:56:05,510
population than we might expect.

2108
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,260
Yeah. And it is wild when you

2109
00:56:08,260 --> 00:56:09,960
think of it that way, like how

2110
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,500
it's not just what they're

2111
00:56:11,500 --> 00:56:13,940
eating that week or that month,

2112
00:56:14,019 --> 00:56:15,360
you know, like you said, I mean,

2113
00:56:15,420 --> 00:56:16,960
it's what they're eating now and

2114
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:17,760
they're finding this.

2115
00:56:17,780 --> 00:56:18,800
I'm sure you've even found too,

2116
00:56:19,260 --> 00:56:21,179
you know, with colon cancer and

2117
00:56:21,179 --> 00:56:24,230
how at birth, you know, even at

2118
00:56:24,230 --> 00:56:25,909
birth, those levels are being

2119
00:56:25,909 --> 00:56:28,489
your risk level is going up or

2120
00:56:28,489 --> 00:56:29,289
down.

2121
00:56:29,559 --> 00:56:31,800
every choice that that we make

2122
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:32,820
when we're feeding them.

2123
00:56:32,980 --> 00:56:34,280
And it is scary, I think, for a

2124
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:35,460
lot of people just seeing what's

2125
00:56:35,460 --> 00:56:37,320
been happening with with the EPA

2126
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,320
and the pesticide usage and and

2127
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:40,120
things that are now being

2128
00:56:40,119 --> 00:56:41,079
allowed again that have been

2129
00:56:41,079 --> 00:56:43,300
banned for years or that are now

2130
00:56:43,300 --> 00:56:44,519
being allowed, like all the PFAS

2131
00:56:44,519 --> 00:56:45,500
containing pesticides.

2132
00:56:46,039 --> 00:56:47,400
And there's no labeling.

2133
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:48,559
There's no testing happening.

2134
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,300
There's no you know, at least,

2135
00:56:50,420 --> 00:56:51,480
you know, we mentioned Europe,

2136
00:56:51,559 --> 00:56:52,760
but at least in Europe, you

2137
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,679
know, France just did a big a

2138
00:56:54,679 --> 00:56:56,719
big test on all their products

2139
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:58,250
and found that Actually, even a

2140
00:56:58,250 --> 00:56:59,150
lot of them are contaminated

2141
00:56:59,150 --> 00:57:00,670
with PFAS, but they're testing

2142
00:57:00,670 --> 00:57:02,429
it. That's why we're not even

2143
00:57:02,429 --> 00:57:03,889
really doing that.

2144
00:57:04,010 --> 00:57:04,909
And I think a lot of people

2145
00:57:04,909 --> 00:57:05,710
know.

2146
00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:09,030
And here's something that

2147
00:57:09,849 --> 00:57:11,030
we should all be thinking about

2148
00:57:11,030 --> 00:57:12,469
as farmers. We started this

2149
00:57:12,469 --> 00:57:13,449
early in this conversation, you

2150
00:57:13,449 --> 00:57:16,610
spoke about how there is often

2151
00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:17,920
the need,

2152
00:57:18,179 --> 00:57:19,980
perceived or real, to have

2153
00:57:19,980 --> 00:57:21,739
herbicides and fungicides and

2154
00:57:21,739 --> 00:57:22,860
tools to facilitate a

2155
00:57:22,860 --> 00:57:23,660
transition.

2156
00:57:24,059 --> 00:57:25,099
But when you look at

2157
00:57:25,409 --> 00:57:26,269
the

2158
00:57:27,789 --> 00:57:28,909
the farming community,

2159
00:57:29,250 --> 00:57:31,489
and the farming community is

2160
00:57:31,489 --> 00:57:33,849
delighted about their reaction,

2161
00:57:33,949 --> 00:57:34,949
their response to these new

2162
00:57:34,949 --> 00:57:36,199
patents. being approved is

2163
00:57:36,199 --> 00:57:37,000
delight.

2164
00:57:36,780 --> 00:57:38,000
They're like, yes, finally,

2165
00:57:38,340 --> 00:57:39,140
we have this.

2166
00:57:40,130 --> 00:57:42,289
There was this recent social

2167
00:57:42,289 --> 00:57:43,090
media phenomena,

2168
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:45,280
it's still ongoing, but to a

2169
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:46,139
greatly reduced degree,

2170
00:57:46,789 --> 00:57:47,590
where

2171
00:57:49,119 --> 00:57:50,619
There was all of this outrage

2172
00:57:50,619 --> 00:57:52,659
being expressed from tenants

2173
00:57:52,659 --> 00:57:55,840
against landlords and against,

2174
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:56,880
and it was being labeled as

2175
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:58,179
being against capitalism and

2176
00:57:58,179 --> 00:57:59,420
against landlords and against,

2177
00:57:59,619 --> 00:58:01,159
the system was rigged and on and

2178
00:58:01,159 --> 00:58:01,960
on the system goes.

2179
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:03,460
And a large part of that was

2180
00:58:03,460 --> 00:58:05,579
stimulated by all of these

2181
00:58:05,579 --> 00:58:07,599
social media ads from landlords

2182
00:58:07,599 --> 00:58:09,079
talking about, hey, the tenants

2183
00:58:09,079 --> 00:58:10,519
pay my rent, I'm making all this

2184
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:11,619
money, I sit at home and do

2185
00:58:11,619 --> 00:58:12,800
nothing, I make all this cash.

2186
00:58:13,980 --> 00:58:15,340
People were outraged by that

2187
00:58:15,340 --> 00:58:16,579
justifiably to some degree.

2188
00:58:18,599 --> 00:58:19,400
And then

2189
00:58:19,809 --> 00:58:22,590
we get the introduction of new

2190
00:58:22,590 --> 00:58:23,390
pesticides,

2191
00:58:23,570 --> 00:58:25,690
which are known to cause harm to

2192
00:58:26,380 --> 00:58:27,180
some degree.

2193
00:58:27,969 --> 00:58:28,769
And stay in the soil.

2194
00:58:29,309 --> 00:58:30,590
And stay in the soil forever.

2195
00:58:31,269 --> 00:58:32,070
Yeah.

2196
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:33,780
And the farmer's response is a

2197
00:58:33,780 --> 00:58:35,179
response of enthusiasm and

2198
00:58:35,179 --> 00:58:35,980
delight.

2199
00:58:36,110 --> 00:58:36,969
Yeah. Oh, thank goodness.

2200
00:58:37,050 --> 00:58:38,250
I can finally get rid of this.

2201
00:58:38,530 --> 00:58:39,330
Yeah.

2202
00:58:39,380 --> 00:58:41,780
And consumers look at that and

2203
00:58:41,780 --> 00:58:43,320
say, you really don't care about

2204
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:44,120
me, do you?

2205
00:58:45,809 --> 00:58:46,630
You really don't care.

2206
00:58:47,190 --> 00:58:47,990
So

2207
00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:49,920
the reality is we have to

2208
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:51,179
acknowledge and we have to admit

2209
00:58:51,650 --> 00:58:52,450
that

2210
00:58:52,679 --> 00:58:54,659
the, we do not have, the

2211
00:58:54,659 --> 00:58:55,800
agricultural community does not

2212
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:57,059
have the moral high ground on

2213
00:58:57,059 --> 00:58:57,860
some of these issues.

2214
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,159
They perceive it as it is the

2215
00:59:00,159 --> 00:59:01,679
moral high ground in their own

2216
00:59:01,679 --> 00:59:02,840
personal best interest.

2217
00:59:02,900 --> 00:59:03,700
And they perceive that the

2218
00:59:03,659 --> 00:59:05,159
system has forced them into this

2219
00:59:05,159 --> 00:59:05,960
position for

2220
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:08,579
which an argument and a case can

2221
00:59:08,579 --> 00:59:09,800
be made in part,

2222
00:59:10,500 --> 00:59:11,440
but in

2223
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:14,260
part, but also this,

2224
00:59:14,860 --> 00:59:16,059
I think we have to acknowledge

2225
00:59:16,059 --> 00:59:18,039
and face the reality that in the

2226
00:59:18,039 --> 00:59:18,920
fullness of time,

2227
00:59:19,719 --> 00:59:21,840
give it a decade, two, five, I

2228
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:22,640
don't know how long it's going

2229
00:59:22,579 --> 00:59:23,500
to take, but in the fullness of

2230
00:59:23,500 --> 00:59:24,300
time,

2231
00:59:25,199 --> 00:59:26,719
we do not have there will come a

2232
00:59:26,719 --> 00:59:29,059
recognition that we do not have

2233
00:59:29,059 --> 00:59:30,440
have not had them moral high

2234
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,179
ground. And that to some degree,

2235
00:59:32,599 --> 00:59:34,679
we, we accepted this, we, we

2236
00:59:34,679 --> 00:59:36,420
embraced it. And therefore,

2237
00:59:36,780 --> 00:59:37,820
to some level, there is a

2238
00:59:37,820 --> 00:59:38,840
certain level of guilt by

2239
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:39,640
association.

2240
00:59:40,809 --> 00:59:42,150
And it's still wild to me, like

2241
00:59:42,150 --> 00:59:43,230
you meant, you touched on this

2242
00:59:43,230 --> 00:59:44,849
earlier as well, but the health

2243
00:59:44,849 --> 00:59:47,130
implications of a lot of these,

2244
00:59:47,250 --> 00:59:48,570
these chemicals

2245
00:59:49,309 --> 00:59:50,710
for the farmers themselves, not

2246
00:59:50,710 --> 00:59:51,809
even just not even for the

2247
00:59:51,809 --> 00:59:52,610
consumers,

2248
00:59:52,809 --> 00:59:54,409
but for the farmers themselves.

2249
00:59:54,429 --> 00:59:55,809
And we see this like in our home

2250
00:59:55,809 --> 00:59:57,389
community in Minnesota,

2251
00:59:58,110 --> 00:59:59,949
the cancer rate, the Parkinson's

2252
00:59:59,949 --> 01:00:00,750
rates,

2253
01:00:00,789 --> 01:00:01,590
I mean,

2254
01:00:01,469 --> 01:00:02,889
through the roof, especially

2255
01:00:02,889 --> 01:00:04,349
when you look at it relative to

2256
01:00:04,349 --> 01:00:06,489
a rural to to an urban area.

2257
01:00:08,139 --> 01:00:10,539
And I don't know how if

2258
01:00:11,039 --> 01:00:12,980
it's not if it doesn't

2259
01:00:13,739 --> 01:00:15,679
impact them enough to care when

2260
01:00:15,679 --> 01:00:17,219
it's their own families, their

2261
01:00:17,219 --> 01:00:18,079
own health.

2262
01:00:18,639 --> 01:00:19,920
I don't know.

2263
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:22,860
how to communicate that.

2264
01:00:23,099 --> 01:00:24,199
It's like, I don't know how to

2265
01:00:24,199 --> 01:00:26,519
get people to care about how

2266
01:00:26,519 --> 01:00:28,019
this is impacting their own

2267
01:00:28,019 --> 01:00:29,519
health and other people's health

2268
01:00:30,219 --> 01:00:31,880
if they don't even get it when

2269
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:32,739
they see it in their own

2270
01:00:32,739 --> 01:00:33,539
communities and their own

2271
01:00:33,519 --> 01:00:34,320
families.

2272
01:00:34,719 --> 01:00:36,119
I don't know. And it's something

2273
01:00:36,119 --> 01:00:37,159
that I struggle with

2274
01:00:38,039 --> 01:00:38,840
as well.

2275
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:40,599
How much of that do you think is

2276
01:00:40,599 --> 01:00:41,400
ignorance?

2277
01:00:43,090 --> 01:00:44,610
We touched on it earlier, but I

2278
01:00:44,610 --> 01:00:45,410
do think there's,

2279
01:00:45,610 --> 01:00:47,730
and I hate to say ignorance,

2280
01:00:49,139 --> 01:00:50,019
but I think there is an

2281
01:00:50,019 --> 01:00:51,059
education issue,

2282
01:00:52,730 --> 01:00:54,369
certainly in rural areas.

2283
01:00:54,820 --> 01:00:56,539
I think there's a lack of

2284
01:00:56,539 --> 01:00:57,340
funding.

2285
01:00:58,079 --> 01:00:59,340
There's a lot in a cultural

2286
01:00:59,340 --> 01:01:00,140
issue.

2287
01:01:00,639 --> 01:01:02,340
But I do think that there is a

2288
01:01:02,340 --> 01:01:03,679
lack of understanding of how

2289
01:01:03,679 --> 01:01:04,579
these things

2290
01:01:05,239 --> 01:01:06,719
impact them. But then I look at

2291
01:01:06,719 --> 01:01:07,639
it and I said, well, there's all

2292
01:01:07,639 --> 01:01:08,760
these studies. There's all these

2293
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:09,940
news reports. But then I'm

2294
01:01:09,940 --> 01:01:11,179
looking at it from a biased eye.

2295
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:12,340
I know how to interpret.

2296
01:01:12,929 --> 01:01:14,250
I know how to interpret a study.

2297
01:01:14,329 --> 01:01:15,369
I know how to read a study.

2298
01:01:15,909 --> 01:01:17,090
A lot of people don't.

2299
01:01:18,860 --> 01:01:19,719
But you'd have to think that

2300
01:01:19,719 --> 01:01:20,739
when they're seeing it in their

2301
01:01:20,739 --> 01:01:21,539
own community,

2302
01:01:22,139 --> 01:01:23,099
that it would trigger something

2303
01:01:23,099 --> 01:01:25,099
like, OK, maybe there's a lack

2304
01:01:25,099 --> 01:01:25,900
of funding. that we're doing

2305
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,389
here that's causing this to

2306
01:01:28,389 --> 01:01:29,949
happen. I struggle with it a

2307
01:01:29,949 --> 01:01:31,550
lot. I think there's a big

2308
01:01:31,550 --> 01:01:34,989
cultural ingrained frame

2309
01:01:34,989 --> 01:01:35,789
of mind,

2310
01:01:36,110 --> 01:01:38,070
and that even if a farmer is

2311
01:01:38,070 --> 01:01:39,889
personally feeling like, okay,

2312
01:01:40,010 --> 01:01:41,369
maybe I'm starting to question

2313
01:01:41,369 --> 01:01:42,170
this,

2314
01:01:42,170 --> 01:01:43,849
if everybody around them

2315
01:01:44,469 --> 01:01:46,670
Is still in that groupthink

2316
01:01:46,670 --> 01:01:48,150
mindset of like, no, this is

2317
01:01:48,150 --> 01:01:48,950
fine. This is the way we've

2318
01:01:48,889 --> 01:01:49,690
always done it.

2319
01:01:49,949 --> 01:01:51,590
It's really hard to be the one

2320
01:01:51,590 --> 01:01:52,390
to

2321
01:01:53,090 --> 01:01:54,110
break out of that.

2322
01:01:55,409 --> 01:01:56,750
I think there's also an aspect

2323
01:01:56,750 --> 01:01:57,690
of,

2324
01:01:58,519 --> 01:01:59,840
I'm not quite sure how to

2325
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:01,139
articulate this well, but there

2326
01:02:01,139 --> 01:02:03,780
is an aspect of an

2327
01:02:04,090 --> 01:02:05,389
adversarial culture.

2328
01:02:05,849 --> 01:02:07,449
And the adversarial culture is

2329
01:02:07,449 --> 01:02:09,030
I'm always, as a farming

2330
01:02:09,030 --> 01:02:10,409
community, we are always being

2331
01:02:10,409 --> 01:02:11,210
attacked.

2332
01:02:10,989 --> 01:02:12,250
We always have to push back.

2333
01:02:12,349 --> 01:02:13,809
We have to defend ourselves

2334
01:02:13,809 --> 01:02:15,630
against consumers, against the

2335
01:02:15,630 --> 01:02:16,530
government, against,

2336
01:02:17,170 --> 01:02:19,070
against, like there is the

2337
01:02:19,070 --> 01:02:20,309
respect, we are constantly being

2338
01:02:20,309 --> 01:02:21,769
pressured. We constantly have to

2339
01:02:21,769 --> 01:02:22,570
be on the defensive.

2340
01:02:23,119 --> 01:02:26,179
And that mechanism, that culture

2341
01:02:26,179 --> 01:02:27,000
of defensiveness

2342
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:30,730
moves to a culture of

2343
01:02:30,730 --> 01:02:32,710
dismissiveness of anything that

2344
01:02:32,710 --> 01:02:34,230
is against what we are doing.

2345
01:02:35,630 --> 01:02:37,150
Yeah. They kind of fuel each

2346
01:02:37,150 --> 01:02:37,950
other.

2347
01:02:38,039 --> 01:02:38,840
Yeah.

2348
01:02:40,219 --> 01:02:41,019
Anyway,

2349
01:02:40,860 --> 01:02:42,280
I had no expectation of getting

2350
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:43,559
into this conversation, but I

2351
01:02:43,559 --> 01:02:44,559
think it's an important one.

2352
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:46,219
It is an important one, and it's

2353
01:02:46,219 --> 01:02:47,300
one that I think a lot of people

2354
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:48,719
are wondering. It's something

2355
01:02:48,719 --> 01:02:51,159
that I hear every day in like

2356
01:02:51,159 --> 01:02:52,780
talking about things like

2357
01:02:52,780 --> 01:02:53,760
tariffs, talking about things

2358
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:54,659
like the trade wars, talking

2359
01:02:54,659 --> 01:02:55,800
about the grain prices, talking

2360
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,019
about now fertilizer costs, now

2361
01:02:58,019 --> 01:03:01,159
gas prices, how all of that is

2362
01:03:01,159 --> 01:03:02,320
going to impact farmers when

2363
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:03,719
they're already heading into a

2364
01:03:03,719 --> 01:03:04,900
season where they've been hit

2365
01:03:04,900 --> 01:03:06,860
once and now they're getting hit

2366
01:03:06,860 --> 01:03:08,800
probably significantly more.

2367
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:11,500
And having this conversation

2368
01:03:11,500 --> 01:03:12,920
where I'm going between, I feel

2369
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:14,039
like the goal between sometimes

2370
01:03:14,039 --> 01:03:15,579
of like, here's the farming,

2371
01:03:16,019 --> 01:03:17,500
here's why, here's what farmers

2372
01:03:17,500 --> 01:03:19,659
are doing, here's what's

2373
01:03:19,659 --> 01:03:20,460
happening on the farm.

2374
01:03:20,219 --> 01:03:21,340
market. And consumers are

2375
01:03:21,340 --> 01:03:23,039
sitting here like, why are they

2376
01:03:23,039 --> 01:03:24,559
supporting? Why are they in

2377
01:03:24,559 --> 01:03:25,659
favor of this? Because it seems

2378
01:03:25,659 --> 01:03:27,500
like this is not in their

2379
01:03:27,500 --> 01:03:28,579
benefit. This is not in their

2380
01:03:28,579 --> 01:03:29,380
favor.

2381
01:03:29,699 --> 01:03:31,179
And it's really an interesting

2382
01:03:31,179 --> 01:03:32,059
conversation. It's something

2383
01:03:32,059 --> 01:03:33,119
that I

2384
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,539
constantly am trying to

2385
01:03:35,539 --> 01:03:37,659
psychoanalyze what's happening.

2386
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:41,739
And I haven't been able to, I

2387
01:03:41,739 --> 01:03:42,820
really haven't been able to come

2388
01:03:42,820 --> 01:03:43,920
up with an answer yet and no one

2389
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:44,840
can give me an answer.

2390
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:45,920
You know, even when I have off

2391
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:46,940
the table, like off the record

2392
01:03:46,940 --> 01:03:48,099
conversations with people and

2393
01:03:48,099 --> 01:03:51,059
I'm like, can you tell me what

2394
01:03:51,059 --> 01:03:52,719
your thought process is here?

2395
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:54,760
And I still don't really get an

2396
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:56,179
answer, which, which makes me

2397
01:03:56,179 --> 01:03:57,099
think that there's something

2398
01:03:57,099 --> 01:03:57,900
that,

2399
01:03:58,070 --> 01:03:59,349
you know, that it is like a

2400
01:03:59,349 --> 01:04:01,829
defensiveness or something that

2401
01:04:01,829 --> 01:04:02,630
they maybe do know.

2402
01:04:02,769 --> 01:04:03,969
Maybe they do know and they do

2403
01:04:03,969 --> 01:04:05,030
recognize it, but there is a

2404
01:04:05,030 --> 01:04:07,289
pride issue and an ego issue of,

2405
01:04:08,139 --> 01:04:09,539
OK, yeah, I'm seeing this and I

2406
01:04:09,539 --> 01:04:10,420
know that this is happening.

2407
01:04:10,599 --> 01:04:11,400
But if I

2408
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,500
admit it and I say, OK, yeah,

2409
01:04:14,500 --> 01:04:15,900
this is not going well,

2410
01:04:16,610 --> 01:04:17,909
I look weaker, you know, and

2411
01:04:17,909 --> 01:04:21,170
that is certainly a mindset of

2412
01:04:21,170 --> 01:04:22,750
like, I got to be strong.

2413
01:04:22,849 --> 01:04:24,349
I got to be you know, I can't

2414
01:04:24,349 --> 01:04:25,150
rely on anyone.

2415
01:04:25,349 --> 01:04:27,070
I need to. That's just that's a

2416
01:04:27,070 --> 01:04:28,369
cult. That's for sure a cultural

2417
01:04:28,369 --> 01:04:29,170
thing in farming.

2418
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:31,849
And maybe that's maybe that is

2419
01:04:31,849 --> 01:04:32,809
what it is. I don't know.

2420
01:04:35,179 --> 01:04:35,980
Well,

2421
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:39,719
many people don't realize many

2422
01:04:39,929 --> 01:04:40,889
people are familiar with the

2423
01:04:40,889 --> 01:04:42,550
language of of

2424
01:04:42,900 --> 01:04:43,700
marketing.

2425
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:46,619
of when there's Everett Rogers

2426
01:04:46,619 --> 01:04:47,960
research on the diffusion of

2427
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:49,340
innovations of how

2428
01:04:50,039 --> 01:04:51,760
new technologies are adopted.

2429
01:04:51,980 --> 01:04:53,099
And if you're not familiar with

2430
01:04:53,099 --> 01:04:54,480
the name or that terminology,

2431
01:04:54,639 --> 01:04:55,900
they're often familiar with this

2432
01:04:55,900 --> 01:04:57,119
curve that's referred to as the

2433
01:04:57,119 --> 01:04:58,340
innovators, the early adopters,

2434
01:04:58,420 --> 01:04:59,220
the early majority, late

2435
01:04:59,179 --> 01:05:00,079
majority and the laggards.

2436
01:05:01,050 --> 01:05:01,869
And what many people don't

2437
01:05:01,869 --> 01:05:04,389
realize is that that original

2438
01:05:04,389 --> 01:05:06,449
foundation research was done on

2439
01:05:06,449 --> 01:05:07,250
farmers.

2440
01:05:07,820 --> 01:05:09,619
It was done in agriculture, yes.

2441
01:05:09,780 --> 01:05:11,159
It was specifically conducted on

2442
01:05:11,159 --> 01:05:12,900
the adoption of hybrid seed corn

2443
01:05:12,900 --> 01:05:15,099
by farmers in Iowa in the 1970s.

2444
01:05:16,619 --> 01:05:17,420
I have no idea.

2445
01:05:17,679 --> 01:05:18,699
Wow. Yeah, I

2446
01:05:19,110 --> 01:05:20,250
think it's a lot.

2447
01:05:20,389 --> 01:05:21,190
Yeah.

2448
01:05:23,449 --> 01:05:24,329
And it's,

2449
01:05:24,750 --> 01:05:26,750
it's, it's an academic book.

2450
01:05:27,380 --> 01:05:28,519
It's now that the work has

2451
01:05:28,519 --> 01:05:29,739
obviously evolved significantly

2452
01:05:29,739 --> 01:05:30,920
since that original research,

2453
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:32,300
but it is still a fascinating

2454
01:05:32,300 --> 01:05:33,100
insight.

2455
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:33,680
And you can still read the

2456
01:05:33,500 --> 01:05:34,300
original research.

2457
01:05:34,159 --> 01:05:35,900
It's a fascinating insight into

2458
01:05:35,900 --> 01:05:37,880
farmer psychology and decision

2459
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:38,680
-making.

2460
01:05:39,630 --> 01:05:40,430
And.

2461
01:05:41,250 --> 01:05:42,550
Yeah, I'll just leave it there.

2462
01:05:42,730 --> 01:05:44,170
It's if anyone is interested in

2463
01:05:44,170 --> 01:05:45,909
that topic of the subconscious

2464
01:05:45,909 --> 01:05:47,289
decision making of the things

2465
01:05:47,289 --> 01:05:49,150
that we don't consciously think

2466
01:05:49,150 --> 01:05:50,849
about as a farming community.

2467
01:05:51,449 --> 01:05:53,230
It's, it's a rather revealing

2468
01:05:53,230 --> 01:05:54,730
mirror to hold up and look into.

2469
01:05:56,090 --> 01:05:57,250
Sometimes people don't want that

2470
01:05:57,250 --> 01:05:58,409
mirror. Sometimes people do.

2471
01:05:59,610 --> 01:06:00,410
Yeah.

2472
01:06:01,849 --> 01:06:02,650
So,

2473
01:06:04,739 --> 01:06:05,940
I've really enjoyed this

2474
01:06:05,940 --> 01:06:07,039
conversation. There's one more

2475
01:06:07,039 --> 01:06:08,340
piece that I was going to get

2476
01:06:08,340 --> 01:06:09,800
into before we got off on this

2477
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:10,960
tangent.

2478
01:06:13,639 --> 01:06:15,280
Your growing

2479
01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:18,429
practices on your grain crops.

2480
01:06:18,590 --> 01:06:19,690
You spoke about reducing

2481
01:06:20,070 --> 01:06:21,909
herbicides or eliminating

2482
01:06:21,909 --> 01:06:23,150
herbicides and fungicides.

2483
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:24,610
You spoke about some of the weed

2484
01:06:24,610 --> 01:06:25,989
pressure. I'm curious about the

2485
01:06:25,989 --> 01:06:27,389
disease outcomes that you've

2486
01:06:27,389 --> 01:06:29,380
had, but also with the dramatic

2487
01:06:29,380 --> 01:06:31,440
reductions that you made in

2488
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:32,840
fertilizer applications.

2489
01:06:34,349 --> 01:06:35,150
What

2490
01:06:35,980 --> 01:06:37,719
You spoke about the things that

2491
01:06:37,719 --> 01:06:38,519
you're taking away.

2492
01:06:38,559 --> 01:06:39,460
You haven't spoken about the

2493
01:06:39,460 --> 01:06:40,380
things that you replace them

2494
01:06:40,380 --> 01:06:41,180
with.

2495
01:06:42,250 --> 01:06:43,050
Yes.

2496
01:06:42,829 --> 01:06:43,630
Which is probably,

2497
01:06:43,969 --> 01:06:45,949
especially at the beginning, and

2498
01:06:45,949 --> 01:06:47,030
this is something I always touch

2499
01:06:47,030 --> 01:06:47,889
on too, like with home

2500
01:06:47,889 --> 01:06:49,150
gardeners, because there's all

2501
01:06:49,150 --> 01:06:51,349
these recipes and like biochar

2502
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:53,090
and compost teas and all this

2503
01:06:53,090 --> 01:06:54,130
stuff that you can get into.

2504
01:06:54,789 --> 01:06:55,789
But as

2505
01:06:56,769 --> 01:06:58,469
you go down the road, at least I

2506
01:06:58,469 --> 01:06:59,510
found in my own practice,

2507
01:07:00,039 --> 01:07:01,920
of regenerative principles, once

2508
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:03,460
you've implemented them in your

2509
01:07:03,460 --> 01:07:04,380
cover cropping and your

2510
01:07:04,380 --> 01:07:05,180
mulching,

2511
01:07:05,159 --> 01:07:06,699
you don't have to be doing all

2512
01:07:06,699 --> 01:07:07,679
of that other stuff.

2513
01:07:07,980 --> 01:07:10,719
As long as you have what needs

2514
01:07:10,719 --> 01:07:12,840
to be creating this healthy

2515
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:13,640
rhizosphere.

2516
01:07:13,599 --> 01:07:14,400
Now, of course, we're always

2517
01:07:14,139 --> 01:07:15,000
going to need some things.

2518
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:15,960
There's always going to be

2519
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:17,579
probably nitrogen and mineral

2520
01:07:17,579 --> 01:07:18,619
needs and that kind of stuff.

2521
01:07:18,739 --> 01:07:19,659
But it's

2522
01:07:21,090 --> 01:07:22,710
been interesting to see

2523
01:07:23,659 --> 01:07:24,460
how,

2524
01:07:25,289 --> 01:07:26,090
in the beginning,

2525
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:28,200
I feel like

2526
01:07:29,070 --> 01:07:30,050
inoculating,

2527
01:07:31,159 --> 01:07:32,739
adding some of these, especially

2528
01:07:32,739 --> 01:07:34,619
the inoculant type stuff, has

2529
01:07:34,989 --> 01:07:36,869
really jump -started

2530
01:07:38,820 --> 01:07:40,780
the soil health, the ability to

2531
01:07:40,780 --> 01:07:42,699
reduce nitrogen, the ability to

2532
01:07:42,699 --> 01:07:43,500
reduce things. And I'm talking

2533
01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:44,400
about on my Colorado farm,

2534
01:07:44,460 --> 01:07:45,260
because obviously we've been

2535
01:07:45,059 --> 01:07:46,019
doing that longer here.

2536
01:07:47,039 --> 01:07:49,119
I inoculate every single seed

2537
01:07:49,119 --> 01:07:50,679
that goes out,

2538
01:07:51,130 --> 01:07:52,090
whether it's a tomato,

2539
01:07:52,570 --> 01:07:54,030
whether it's a zinnia,

2540
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:57,320
cover crop seed always gets

2541
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:58,120
inoculated.

2542
01:07:58,579 --> 01:07:59,579
The corn, soybeans,

2543
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:01,639
every seed that I plant gets

2544
01:08:01,639 --> 01:08:02,440
inoculated.

2545
01:08:02,619 --> 01:08:04,099
That to me is like the lowest,

2546
01:08:04,639 --> 01:08:07,099
right, like the lowest fruit.

2547
01:08:07,969 --> 01:08:10,150
for getting that soil health up

2548
01:08:10,150 --> 01:08:11,070
and going, especially in the

2549
01:08:11,070 --> 01:08:12,030
first few years.

2550
01:08:13,110 --> 01:08:14,969
That's been one thing that we

2551
01:08:14,969 --> 01:08:16,109
really emphasized.

2552
01:08:16,930 --> 01:08:18,350
You have a question, John, I can

2553
01:08:18,350 --> 01:08:19,150
feel it.

2554
01:08:19,789 --> 01:08:20,970
I was about to ask, what

2555
01:08:21,180 --> 01:08:23,640
inoculants have you experimented

2556
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:24,899
and tested with and what have

2557
01:08:24,899 --> 01:08:25,859
been the results that you've

2558
01:08:25,859 --> 01:08:26,659
observed?

2559
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:29,960
So on our Colorado farm, we've

2560
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:31,560
been doing BioCoat Gold.

2561
01:08:32,939 --> 01:08:33,979
we've been doing seed flare.

2562
01:08:34,699 --> 01:08:36,500
So seed flare,

2563
01:08:37,220 --> 01:08:38,779
interestingly, we planted, we

2564
01:08:38,779 --> 01:08:39,859
were planting the corn, and we

2565
01:08:39,859 --> 01:08:40,979
got to the end of the planting,

2566
01:08:41,039 --> 01:08:42,239
we'd upped the population a

2567
01:08:42,239 --> 01:08:43,039
little bit.

2568
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:44,720
And so we ran out of corn for

2569
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,560
the last trip, and had to run.

2570
01:08:47,739 --> 01:08:48,539
Thankfully, we're working with

2571
01:08:48,500 --> 01:08:49,460
Albert Lee's seed, who's

2572
01:08:49,460 --> 01:08:50,399
phenomenal, and they're close

2573
01:08:50,399 --> 01:08:51,500
by. So I was able to like run

2574
01:08:51,500 --> 01:08:52,579
down there and grab a bag of

2575
01:08:52,579 --> 01:08:53,380
seed, run back,

2576
01:08:53,500 --> 01:08:54,340
but we didn't have a chance to

2577
01:08:54,340 --> 01:08:55,779
inoculate it with seed flare.

2578
01:08:56,550 --> 01:08:58,609
Um, so came back, planted that

2579
01:08:58,609 --> 01:09:00,109
row and that row came up like

2580
01:09:00,109 --> 01:09:01,449
four days later.

2581
01:09:02,939 --> 01:09:06,340
I just thought it was funny, you

2582
01:09:06,340 --> 01:09:07,140
know,

2583
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:08,439
because I think it's funny

2584
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:09,720
because I, you know, as we're

2585
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:10,960
applying all this stuff, our

2586
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:12,840
former applicator was

2587
01:09:13,149 --> 01:09:13,949
like,

2588
01:09:14,340 --> 01:09:15,619
you know, I could tell there was

2589
01:09:15,619 --> 01:09:16,819
this thing, your sanity a little

2590
01:09:16,819 --> 01:09:17,619
bit.

2591
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:18,500
Yeah. Like what is all this

2592
01:09:18,500 --> 01:09:19,699
stuff you're putting on?

2593
01:09:21,729 --> 01:09:23,210
And so that, that personally,

2594
01:09:23,250 --> 01:09:24,189
for me, that was a little bit

2595
01:09:24,189 --> 01:09:25,350
satisfying to see, but

2596
01:09:26,189 --> 01:09:27,789
Again, if there's nothing else

2597
01:09:27,789 --> 01:09:28,949
I'm going to encourage people to

2598
01:09:28,949 --> 01:09:30,069
do, and I always do, it's

2599
01:09:30,069 --> 01:09:30,869
inoculate your seed.

2600
01:09:31,449 --> 01:09:33,619
That's the first, biggest bang

2601
01:09:33,619 --> 01:09:34,500
for your buck. It's there when

2602
01:09:34,500 --> 01:09:35,300
the seed germinates.

2603
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:36,739
All of that is there.

2604
01:09:37,500 --> 01:09:38,640
Then there's the other stuff

2605
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:39,440
that we've been doing.

2606
01:09:40,180 --> 01:09:42,479
We've been using things like

2607
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:43,300
MacroPak.

2608
01:09:43,659 --> 01:09:45,420
We did sap analysis testing on

2609
01:09:45,420 --> 01:09:46,579
the farm in Minnesota.

2610
01:09:47,319 --> 01:09:49,220
The sap analysis was

2611
01:09:49,539 --> 01:09:51,859
so interesting to me, both on a

2612
01:09:52,340 --> 01:09:54,079
doing it, cutting it, figuring

2613
01:09:54,079 --> 01:09:56,979
out which stage, which leaf I

2614
01:09:56,979 --> 01:09:57,840
should be using,

2615
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:01,560
shipping it off, getting that

2616
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:03,079
information, seeing it, and

2617
01:10:03,079 --> 01:10:03,880
being like, oh,

2618
01:10:04,149 --> 01:10:05,529
we did a control, of course.

2619
01:10:05,630 --> 01:10:06,630
So we did our field, and then we

2620
01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:07,829
did our neighbor's field, which

2621
01:10:07,829 --> 01:10:08,949
was conventional,

2622
01:10:09,670 --> 01:10:11,770
and still had full rates of

2623
01:10:11,770 --> 01:10:12,570
nitrogen.

2624
01:10:12,510 --> 01:10:13,689
What was the most interesting

2625
01:10:13,689 --> 01:10:14,949
number to me was how

2626
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:16,460
much

2627
01:10:16,949 --> 01:10:18,649
nitrogen was in those leaves,

2628
01:10:18,890 --> 01:10:21,550
like way beyond what the plant

2629
01:10:21,550 --> 01:10:23,149
would be able to use.

2630
01:10:24,850 --> 01:10:26,189
And of course, I'm looking at

2631
01:10:26,189 --> 01:10:27,390
that from the perspective of

2632
01:10:27,390 --> 01:10:28,729
like from my home farm, I've

2633
01:10:28,729 --> 01:10:30,489
learned I don't over fertilize,

2634
01:10:30,609 --> 01:10:31,409
especially in the spring,

2635
01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:33,930
because then we get aphids or

2636
01:10:33,930 --> 01:10:35,670
any other number of problems.

2637
01:10:36,010 --> 01:10:36,949
And so I'm looking at this and

2638
01:10:36,949 --> 01:10:38,149
like, OK, we're spending a bunch

2639
01:10:38,149 --> 01:10:39,789
of money. We don't need to to be

2640
01:10:39,789 --> 01:10:41,390
fertilizing nitrogen when

2641
01:10:41,390 --> 01:10:43,510
clearly the tissue analysis is

2642
01:10:43,510 --> 01:10:44,810
showing this is more nitrogen

2643
01:10:44,810 --> 01:10:45,970
than this plant can even use.

2644
01:10:46,359 --> 01:10:48,279
So that was really interesting

2645
01:10:48,279 --> 01:10:49,739
to me and then the only thing we

2646
01:10:49,739 --> 01:10:52,159
use during the season is we did

2647
01:10:52,159 --> 01:10:53,699
drone application well we did a

2648
01:10:53,699 --> 01:10:54,579
in for a plant.

2649
01:10:54,779 --> 01:10:56,520
We didn't infer I think of a

2650
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,399
macro pack and some some micros

2651
01:10:59,399 --> 01:11:01,859
so. think there was boron.

2652
01:11:02,619 --> 01:11:03,699
Our app

2653
01:11:04,399 --> 01:11:06,000
analysis showed that we needed

2654
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,300
to add some manganese, like

2655
01:11:08,300 --> 01:11:09,420
right around fill stage.

2656
01:11:09,460 --> 01:11:10,260
So we did that.

2657
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:12,119
And then beyond that,

2658
01:11:12,939 --> 01:11:14,260
I think it was only macro pack

2659
01:11:14,260 --> 01:11:15,239
that we really applied.

2660
01:11:16,279 --> 01:11:18,760
And so we have a bunch of jugs

2661
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:19,560
still sitting there, because

2662
01:11:19,500 --> 01:11:21,720
it's stuff I didn't even need.

2663
01:11:23,659 --> 01:11:24,960
But based on based on what

2664
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:26,140
you're describing, I'm curious

2665
01:11:26,140 --> 01:11:27,880
about your economics, because it

2666
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:29,020
sounds like your total budget

2667
01:11:29,020 --> 01:11:29,859
was a fraction.

2668
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:32,439
So unfortunately, where we got

2669
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,779
hit was the applicator, the

2670
01:11:34,779 --> 01:11:35,699
applicator rate, because

2671
01:11:35,699 --> 01:11:38,340
obviously, we're doing 20 acres,

2672
01:11:38,340 --> 01:11:39,619
it doesn't make sense for me to

2673
01:11:39,619 --> 01:11:40,420
get a tractor,

2674
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,140
and to start farming it myself.

2675
01:11:43,279 --> 01:11:44,819
So we're hiring it out.

2676
01:11:45,300 --> 01:11:47,140
So where we get hit is the

2677
01:11:47,140 --> 01:11:47,979
applicator rates,

2678
01:11:48,420 --> 01:11:51,260
paying someone to plant things,

2679
01:11:51,460 --> 01:11:52,260
paying someone to drone.

2680
01:11:53,359 --> 01:11:54,640
You know, once you can get,

2681
01:11:55,020 --> 01:11:55,920
and of course, that's its own

2682
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:56,720
issue, right?

2683
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:57,500
It's the cost of like,

2684
01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:58,640
Right.

2685
01:11:58,939 --> 01:12:00,399
Implements and repairs and all

2686
01:12:00,399 --> 01:12:01,199
that.

2687
01:12:01,079 --> 01:12:01,880
And I know they have to cover

2688
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:02,699
all that. I get it.

2689
01:12:03,060 --> 01:12:04,399
But but interestingly,

2690
01:12:04,699 --> 01:12:05,899
depending on when you sell the

2691
01:12:05,899 --> 01:12:07,199
corn, of course, we haven't sold

2692
01:12:07,199 --> 01:12:08,000
it yet.

2693
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,000
Even considering that we took a

2694
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:10,800
yield hit,

2695
01:12:11,500 --> 01:12:13,020
it was maybe a couple of dollars

2696
01:12:13,619 --> 01:12:15,380
difference per acre.

2697
01:12:15,500 --> 01:12:17,100
Even even considering the yield

2698
01:12:17,100 --> 01:12:17,939
hit that we took,

2699
01:12:19,689 --> 01:12:20,529
I I

2700
01:12:21,359 --> 01:12:22,159
would not change.

2701
01:12:21,979 --> 01:12:22,800
Let me just put it this way.

2702
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:24,779
I haven't run the final numbers

2703
01:12:24,779 --> 01:12:26,810
without without the applicator

2704
01:12:26,810 --> 01:12:28,050
rates, which is how I'd have to

2705
01:12:28,050 --> 01:12:29,050
side by side it.

2706
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:31,760
I would not change anything that

2707
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:32,560
we did last year

2708
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:35,890
because the nitrogen costs last

2709
01:12:35,890 --> 01:12:37,869
year was so high that by the

2710
01:12:37,869 --> 01:12:39,210
time if we had applied the full

2711
01:12:39,210 --> 01:12:40,010
rate,

2712
01:12:40,569 --> 01:12:41,390
it would have been the

2713
01:12:41,390 --> 01:12:42,930
difference between being

2714
01:12:42,930 --> 01:12:43,930
profitable and not being

2715
01:12:43,930 --> 01:12:45,090
profitable in that corn.

2716
01:12:46,689 --> 01:12:47,489
So I

2717
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:49,399
think that math for many growers

2718
01:12:49,399 --> 01:12:51,060
that this year is changing to an

2719
01:12:51,060 --> 01:12:52,100
even greater degree, obviously,

2720
01:12:52,220 --> 01:12:53,579
with what's just happened here

2721
01:12:54,529 --> 01:12:55,329
in the last couple of years.

2722
01:12:55,180 --> 01:12:55,980
weeks.

2723
01:12:56,409 --> 01:12:57,390
I think this year is one of

2724
01:12:57,390 --> 01:12:58,470
those years where it's going to

2725
01:12:58,470 --> 01:12:59,949
be, yeah, I mean, everyone's

2726
01:12:59,949 --> 01:13:00,909
going to have to make that call.

2727
01:13:01,029 --> 01:13:01,829
If

2728
01:13:02,039 --> 01:13:03,520
you don't have animals on your

2729
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:05,720
farm that you can close the gap

2730
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:07,380
with, yeah, I think a lot of

2731
01:13:07,380 --> 01:13:08,199
people are going to be looking

2732
01:13:08,199 --> 01:13:09,000
at,

2733
01:13:09,340 --> 01:13:10,699
how do I reduce that?

2734
01:13:10,779 --> 01:13:12,479
And of course, if you're only

2735
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:14,119
looking at it though as a,

2736
01:13:15,609 --> 01:13:17,409
I have to get my nitrogen in,

2737
01:13:17,449 --> 01:13:18,569
but you're not looking at it

2738
01:13:18,569 --> 01:13:19,369
from

2739
01:13:19,340 --> 01:13:20,899
I have to get the soil profile,

2740
01:13:21,279 --> 01:13:22,579
you know, mineralizing the

2741
01:13:22,579 --> 01:13:23,600
existing nutrients.

2742
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:24,659
And if you're not getting the

2743
01:13:24,659 --> 01:13:25,840
organic matter in the soil,

2744
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:27,380
so there's it's a frame of mind.

2745
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:28,520
It's still a frame of mind that

2746
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:29,680
has to be navigated.

2747
01:13:30,100 --> 01:13:31,079
I think people will cut

2748
01:13:31,079 --> 01:13:31,880
nitrogen,

2749
01:13:31,899 --> 01:13:32,720
but if you're just cutting

2750
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:34,000
nitrogen and you're not

2751
01:13:34,500 --> 01:13:35,979
implementing other things this

2752
01:13:35,979 --> 01:13:36,779
year, to me,

2753
01:13:37,090 --> 01:13:38,229
it's like if there's going to be

2754
01:13:38,229 --> 01:13:39,149
a year, you're going to start

2755
01:13:39,149 --> 01:13:40,569
doing inoculation and you're

2756
01:13:40,569 --> 01:13:41,369
going to start

2757
01:13:42,659 --> 01:13:44,060
changing your practices.

2758
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:46,180
This is a great year to do it.

2759
01:13:47,579 --> 01:13:48,699
There's lots of economic

2760
01:13:48,699 --> 01:13:50,159
incentives that align to create

2761
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:50,960
that.

2762
01:13:50,859 --> 01:13:52,000
You know, this reminds me of a

2763
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:52,979
conversation, one of the early

2764
01:13:52,979 --> 01:13:54,180
conversations I had here on the

2765
01:13:54,180 --> 01:13:55,300
podcast with Gary Zimmer.

2766
01:13:56,229 --> 01:13:57,550
I asked him a question,

2767
01:13:57,630 --> 01:13:58,869
something along the lines of if

2768
01:13:58,869 --> 01:14:00,229
you wanted to facilitate mass

2769
01:14:00,229 --> 01:14:01,470
adoption and you had a magic

2770
01:14:01,470 --> 01:14:02,569
wand that you could wave to

2771
01:14:02,569 --> 01:14:03,890
change one thing, what would it

2772
01:14:03,890 --> 01:14:05,289
be? And his answer was, I would

2773
01:14:05,289 --> 01:14:06,609
make nitrogen really expensive.

2774
01:14:07,340 --> 01:14:08,140
There you go.

2775
01:14:12,159 --> 01:14:13,739
It is. I mean, really, because

2776
01:14:13,739 --> 01:14:15,100
once that's, that's what it is,

2777
01:14:15,100 --> 01:14:16,460
is people are going to continue

2778
01:14:16,460 --> 01:14:17,460
doing the same thing if they're

2779
01:14:17,460 --> 01:14:18,260
getting yields.

2780
01:14:18,619 --> 01:14:19,420
Yeah, of course, it doesn't make

2781
01:14:19,380 --> 01:14:21,159
sense to be yielding like 240

2782
01:14:21,159 --> 01:14:22,779
bushels an acre with everybody's

2783
01:14:22,779 --> 01:14:23,579
yielding that much.

2784
01:14:23,739 --> 01:14:24,880
Then we're just driving the

2785
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:26,000
price down anyway, because

2786
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,159
there's such a glut of corn on

2787
01:14:27,159 --> 01:14:28,319
the market, which is kind of,

2788
01:14:28,500 --> 01:14:29,380
you know, part of what we saw

2789
01:14:29,380 --> 01:14:30,180
this year,

2790
01:14:30,279 --> 01:14:32,180
if everybody would start scaling

2791
01:14:32,180 --> 01:14:34,770
down their inputs,

2792
01:14:35,220 --> 01:14:36,899
and yeah, take a bit of a yield

2793
01:14:36,899 --> 01:14:38,359
hit, but the soil health profile

2794
01:14:38,359 --> 01:14:39,159
is better,

2795
01:14:39,279 --> 01:14:40,939
and the input cost is lower.

2796
01:14:43,310 --> 01:14:44,489
everybody's price will go up

2797
01:14:44,489 --> 01:14:45,449
because, yeah, there will be

2798
01:14:45,449 --> 01:14:46,949
less corn on the market too,

2799
01:14:47,430 --> 01:14:48,350
which, you know, right now we

2800
01:14:48,350 --> 01:14:49,489
have a glut. We have too much.

2801
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:50,840
we have too much, which is

2802
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:51,779
driving that, you know, yeah,

2803
01:14:51,779 --> 01:14:52,779
from a marketing perspective,

2804
01:14:52,779 --> 01:14:54,140
from a business perspective,

2805
01:14:54,199 --> 01:14:55,000
yeah,

2806
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:56,020
we all know the equation, right?

2807
01:14:57,359 --> 01:14:58,159
Well,

2808
01:14:59,210 --> 01:15:00,369
getting farmers all aligned

2809
01:15:00,369 --> 01:15:01,909
collectively to produce less has

2810
01:15:01,909 --> 01:15:03,409
never been successful and is

2811
01:15:03,409 --> 01:15:04,550
unlikely to ever be in the near

2812
01:15:04,550 --> 01:15:05,350
term future.

2813
01:15:05,909 --> 01:15:07,869
No, but if we can say, hey, look

2814
01:15:07,869 --> 01:15:09,210
how many passes you're doing on

2815
01:15:09,210 --> 01:15:10,109
your field, right?

2816
01:15:10,529 --> 01:15:11,949
with gas prices being what they

2817
01:15:11,949 --> 01:15:14,770
are and, and who knows going

2818
01:15:14,770 --> 01:15:16,329
into summer and fertilizer

2819
01:15:16,329 --> 01:15:17,449
prices being what they are.

2820
01:15:17,569 --> 01:15:18,369
Yeah. I mean,

2821
01:15:18,649 --> 01:15:19,449
you're going to do it.

2822
01:15:19,670 --> 01:15:20,649
If you've been thinking about

2823
01:15:20,649 --> 01:15:21,569
it, it seems like

2824
01:15:22,170 --> 01:15:23,649
this year is a no brainer.

2825
01:15:24,300 --> 01:15:25,100
Yeah.

2826
01:15:25,569 --> 01:15:26,989
Well, Brie, this has been a very

2827
01:15:26,989 --> 01:15:27,970
enjoyable conversation.

2828
01:15:28,130 --> 01:15:28,949
Thank you for all the

2829
01:15:28,949 --> 01:15:30,189
provocative thoughts that you've

2830
01:15:30,189 --> 01:15:30,989
brought and shared.

2831
01:15:30,850 --> 01:15:32,310
I've really enjoyed it and I

2832
01:15:32,310 --> 01:15:33,110
look forward to more

2833
01:15:32,949 --> 01:15:33,890
conversations with you in the

2834
01:15:33,890 --> 01:15:35,029
future. Thank you very much for

2835
01:15:35,029 --> 01:15:35,829
being here and for all your

2836
01:15:35,729 --> 01:15:36,529
work.

2837
01:15:36,449 --> 01:15:37,250
Thanks for having me.

2838
01:15:37,949 --> 01:15:39,630
The team at AEA and I are

2839
01:15:39,630 --> 01:15:41,149
dedicated to bringing this show

2840
01:15:41,149 --> 01:15:42,729
to you because we believe that

2841
01:15:42,729 --> 01:15:44,430
knowledge and information is the

2842
01:15:44,430 --> 01:15:46,130
foundation of successful

2843
01:15:46,130 --> 01:15:47,409
regenerative systems.

2844
01:15:48,140 --> 01:15:50,119
At AEA, we believe that growing

2845
01:15:50,119 --> 01:15:51,840
better quality food and making

2846
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:53,380
more money from your crops is

2847
01:15:53,380 --> 01:15:54,180
possible.

2848
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:55,439
And since 2006,

2849
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:56,739
we've worked with leading

2850
01:15:56,739 --> 01:15:58,079
professional growers to help

2851
01:15:58,079 --> 01:15:59,060
them do just that.

2852
01:15:59,770 --> 01:16:01,430
At AEA, we don't guess.

2853
01:16:01,710 --> 01:16:02,930
We test. We analyze.

2854
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:04,840
And we provide recommendations

2855
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:06,619
based on scientific data,

2856
01:16:07,079 --> 01:16:08,079
knowledge, and experience.

2857
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:09,779
We've developed products that

2858
01:16:09,779 --> 01:16:11,079
are uniquely positioned to help

2859
01:16:11,079 --> 01:16:12,579
growers make more money with

2860
01:16:12,579 --> 01:16:13,579
regenerative agriculture.

2861
01:16:14,390 --> 01:16:15,689
If you are a professional grower

2862
01:16:15,689 --> 01:16:17,529
who believes in testing instead

2863
01:16:17,529 --> 01:16:18,329
of guessing,

2864
01:16:18,869 --> 01:16:19,970
someone who believes in a

2865
01:16:19,970 --> 01:16:21,390
better, more regenerative way to

2866
01:16:21,390 --> 01:16:22,190
grow,

2867
01:16:22,420 --> 01:16:24,859
visit advancingecoag .com and

2868
01:16:24,859 --> 01:16:26,399
contact us to see if AEA is

2869
01:16:26,399 --> 01:16:27,199
right for you.