Is Testosterone the Missing Link in Longevity?

[SPEAKER_00]: Today, on misunderstood with Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_00]: I speak to men all the time that think they know everything about testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the stigma is when you hear testosterone, you think of these like meat heads in the gym or guys who are having trouble having sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they think they need to take testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So everyone seems to think that they're the expert in it, but no one really knows what the hell they're talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: testosterone is actually a controlled substance, and this happened in 1990.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the only hormone that's controlled, Congress actually went ahead and scheduled testosterone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though testosterone is only a small component of these doping protocols is really not the driver, but that gives it a bad rap from that perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you could correct one thing, the public misunderstands about testosterone, what would that be?
[SPEAKER_01]: How critical low testosterone is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Low testosterone is implicated in what are today referred as the four horsemen of disease.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is cancer.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is dementia.
[SPEAKER_01]: Type 2 diabetes.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is obesity.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the single best biomarker into your overall health.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does tell you about your cardiovascular and your endothelial health.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your state of inflammation, your glucose control, and your insulin sensitivity.
[SPEAKER_01]: For something that is so telling and so easy, it's really surprising, it's just not check more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most guys are taking a shot once a week.
[SPEAKER_01]: The equivalent analogy is waking up on Monday morning and having 10 cups of coffee.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just have your whole coffee for the week.
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't make sense, and that's not how the body produces testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: We live in a world obsessed with feeling younger, living longer, having more energy and somehow doing it all without ever looking tired.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about diet, sleep, supplements, peptides, ozempic, but there's one topic that people whisper about, joke about, or dismiss entirely, and that is testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: The truth is testosterone has become one of the most misunderstood parts of modern health.
[SPEAKER_00]: For years, it's been lumped together with body-building steroids cheating athletes and aging men in crisis.
[SPEAKER_00]: And because of that stigma, millions of people men and women suffer quietly with fatigue, mood changes, weight gain, low libido, brain fog, and declining vitality.
[SPEAKER_00]: Without ever knowing that hormones might just be part of the story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Today's episode is about understanding a hormone that plays a critical role in metabolism, longevity, mental health, sexuality, muscle preservation, and frankly quality of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also about why the medical world has gotten testosterone wrong for so long and why that misunderstanding has caused people years of their lives feeling like a dimmer switch has been turned down.
[SPEAKER_00]: To unpack this, I'm talking to someone who has been at the center of redefining this conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shawlin Shaw is the CEO of Marius Pharmaceuticals, the company behind the first truly accessible oral testosterone therapy approved by the FDA.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not a doctor.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a biotech and health innovation executive who became obsessed with the question, why are we treating testosterone like a dangerous drug instead of an essential hormone?
[SPEAKER_00]: Under his leadership, he helped drive a major shift in the FDA's stance on testosterone therapy and has become one of the leading voices calling out misinformation, outdated studies, and unnecessary fear surrounding men's hormone health.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has spent years talking to researchers, clinicians, regulators, and patients, and what he learned is this.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have been completely wrong about testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wrong about what it does, wrong about who it helps, wrong about the risks.
[SPEAKER_00]: and definitely wrong about the stigma.
[SPEAKER_00]: So today we're stripping away the myths, the cultural baggage, and the fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're getting to the heart of with testosterone really means for longevity, aging, vitality, and feeling fully alive.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not a commercial, this is not medical advice, this is clarity, this is what has been misunderstood.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now here's my conversation with Shaylin Shaw.
[SPEAKER_00]: John, thank you so much for joining me today on misunderstood, talk about what we don't know about testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me, Rachel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pleasure to be here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: So before we get into what you're here for, can you give us a little background for those of us who don't know you about how you even got into this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, so it's been about 10 years now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a really deep dive on testosterone naturally, but I approached Mary's actually as an investor.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were looking at the drug.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was in development at the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: We started doing some research.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looked really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: But.
[SPEAKER_01]: there's a lot of stigma and and sort of myths around testosterone at large back then.
[SPEAKER_01]: It still continued to this day to some degree.
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, that was really what got us interested was there's such a difference between how important the hormone is based on our research versus what people actually understood.
[SPEAKER_00]: But did you get on this journey?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you were you didn't study, you know, pharmaceuticals and all these things growing up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like what got you to this point?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it something that you
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have a healthcare family, sort of so I've had that influence, but I was always more inclined on the business side, studied finance, worked in private equity, and again, it sort of was just a perfect meeting and match, honestly, when it came across my desk and as we got for, it wasn't on day one that we decided to be this in, if you will, but as we got further along into the project, it just became more and more compelling.
[SPEAKER_00]: God, okay, and I'm just curious because I speak to men all the time that I think they know everything about testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the stigma is when you hear testosterone, you think of these like meat heads in the gym or guys who are having trouble having sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they think they need to take testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think, you know, everyone seems to think that they're the expert in it, but no one really knows what the hell they're talking about, which is why I'm excited that you're here, but like for you, where you
[SPEAKER_00]: finding that you got to a stage in your life where you're like, oh, hey, let me look into this for myself, or no, this was just an opportunity that you were like, this makes sense financially.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it actually, it was around the same time where, again, the opportunity looked really interesting, but then I started to look into it for myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, low and behold, relatively active, eight well, did all the right things that most people think they're doing, and any of my testosterone was at the lower end of normal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it did make me stand up and say, okay, what is going on here and is there more to this story for like you're saying the general population because it gets the stigma of, yes, the gym guys or sexual health only, but as a metabolic hormone, what it does across the entire body is where I think this becomes sort of every man's issue that they need to think about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell you're the CEO of Mary as far as pharmaceuticals?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you explain what what you guys do there?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we developed a drug called Kaiser Tracks, which is an oral and FDA-approved oral capsule for a low testosterone.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we developed that, brought it through clinical trials, took it through FDA approval, and then launched the drug back in 2022.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what we've done here is a little different, like, again, yes, Mary's Pharmaceuticals, but we're not a typical pharmaceutical company.
[SPEAKER_01]: We took,
[SPEAKER_01]: the drug we launched as a cash only product so we looked at the traditional insurance system traditional medical system and said this doesn't work for a lot of reasons and the only way that this is going to work is if we go directly to the patient so a lot of the direct to patient models you hear about today that are getting a lot of attention in the news that's how we launched the drug so we really took a different approach from day one
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let's start with testosterone as a topic to begin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you kind of explain the layman's terms what this is and what it does and why people need it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a hormone.
[SPEAKER_01]: So testosterone is hormone similar to things like vitamin D or insulin.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are hormones in your bodies in your body and it actually plays a role in every organ.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's an antigen receptor on every organ in the body.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this means from your brain to your heart to your bones, muscles and all the way through.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it works at most people realize there's something wrong because there's symptomatic things that come up, whether that's energy, yes, loss of libido, inability to put on muscle mass.
[SPEAKER_01]: So those are pretty apparent symptoms, again, especially as men and women age.
[SPEAKER_01]: But testosterone actually works all the way down to a cellular level, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So that is the depth of the role of testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a certain age that you guys have really found that people need to start looking at their testosterone?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I feel like, you know, the younger people are, they'll have symptoms, but they won't even know that that's what it could possibly be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And is it only for older people or people over 50, whatever?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the sweet spot that we've seen is actually starting to pay attention is at 40 and I think this this this number has continued to decline sort of decade over decade because we've had lower testosterone levels across the population decade over decade so that's why 40 is really the sweet spot I think where you have to start paying attention to this but that said because of these population level declines.
[SPEAKER_01]: not just because of lifestyle and say obesity that are driving you know pretty rampant right in our population, but also because of a lot of other endocrine disruptors that we have in our system, whether that's in our food, whether that's our water, whether that's fragrances, you know what we're putting on our body, so you see actually even younger guys today with lower and lower testosterone levels.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not just a men's only testosterone is just not for men.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that women start to look at it during menopause.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's the first time you start to get tested and really look at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I just, I went away to Panama and to stem cells and they tested on my hormones.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm 50, so I'm impairing menopause, whatever stuff you don't really care about.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the testosterone, it is, but the testosterone portion of it was really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I found, I guess for women, you're supposed to be between two and five.
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I getting my numbers, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Something like that, and I wasn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so there's a couple different scales, but yeah, but there would be 20 and 50.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah,
[SPEAKER_01]: that that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was at like point two, whatever that would mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they gave me a cream.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I want to talk about it because you do an oral thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's creams, there's oral, and there's a pellet, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and there's a, is there a shot?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also injections.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean females don't use injections too often.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's primarily on the male side, but it's an option.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for women, I think more often than not, especially if it has to do with pairing menopause, they give you the cream.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I've never understood creams.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanna know your thought on creams.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like a placebo thing in my head, because we've been taught our whole lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have lotion, you have fragrance lotion, you have perfume, that's what you put on your wrist.
[SPEAKER_00]: I never knew this was something that could go in my wrist and actually affect me on a cellular level.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I somehow, in my head, don't think it works, and I'm like, I would rather get an injection or a pellet, but they haven't offered me that at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are your thoughts on the different types?
[SPEAKER_01]: So creams are the easiest entry point, especially for females, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The issue with creams are, there's a lot of variable absorption.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're saying, you don't know if you're getting it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So everybody's, you know, dermis or skin is different.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that, there's a lot of variable absorption that happens with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then obviously there's a lot that goes in terms of, okay, I put this on, is it inconvenient?
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I shower?
[SPEAKER_01]: Can anybody be near me, transference to my children, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, or my pets, whatever it might be.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot of considerations that go along with that, that make it less than ideal for the creams.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so then going back to what you created, why did you guys even come up with an oral version?
[SPEAKER_01]: So two main reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is historically there were other versions of testosterone that were oral or pills and those were liver toxic.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they were never really used.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, that just creates a big barrier.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that leads us to the second reason is that it creates a big barrier to use.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you think about how big of an issue testosterone deficiency is in terms of sheer number of people that have it,
[SPEAKER_01]: both male and female, but then as we're discussing in the beginning is, why is it so important, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: This metabolic hormone, if the only method or the bio and viral large method is via an injection, how many people can you really help?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you're going to have a huge portion of the population, they're just going to say, I
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not willing to inject myself, and this started as like deep intramuscular injections that they've moved now into what's called sub-Q, you know, you kind of pinch a belly fat and take the shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: But still, I run into people every day that are like, I'm not going to take an injection.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the world is what, once a day, once a month.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for males, it's actually twice a day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, couple capsules twice a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: and how long does an oral take to the effects in the body?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can start to see the change in your blood levels in as soon as seven days.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's relatively quick and patients have reported symptomatic shifts within that time period as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so you're so are you guys saying that there's no difference I know plenty of guys that that do the shot right they do I guess their own shot I guess originally what you're saying people used to have to go into the doctor was like in the house it was a whole bigger correct now it seems easy and easy to get you don't even have to see a doctor can you can do the tele
[SPEAKER_00]: half that whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, but what's interesting is that they are doing it for different reasons and they can overuse it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, is that interesting in the gym?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what happens almost inevitably by taking a shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, most, most guys are taking a shot once a week.
[SPEAKER_01]: This used to be twice a week, now it's down to once a week, which is good, but,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the equivalent analogy is waking up on Monday morning and having 10 cups of coffee, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you just have your whole coffee for the week.
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't make sense and that's not how the body produces testosterone.
[SPEAKER_01]: We produce it every single day while we're sleeping and it peaks in the morning and then gradually declines throughout the day.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're taking in injection, you're going to a super physiologic high and then coming down throughout the week and often that
[SPEAKER_01]: looks very different than the first half because now you're below a certain level and you're just not feeling the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that roller coaster that patients are on not only affects how they feel, but also drives a number of the side effects that occur on testosterone because again, primarily because they're going to these super physiologic highs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what are some of the side effects, the negative?
[SPEAKER_01]: So one of the big ones is is high hematic rate.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is your red blood cells.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, on these higher doses of testosterone, it gets elevated.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it leads to a blood thickness where a lot of guys actually go and give blood every six weeks to keep that number in check, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're going to the blood donation or blood bank and giving blood every six weeks to make sure that number doesn't get too high.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the big ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another big one is that you're brain signaling for testosterone, it's called LH and FSH.
[SPEAKER_01]: That actually shuts off completely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because your body is saying, hey, look, I got so much testosterone in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to do anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it shuts those signals off.
[SPEAKER_01]: And those are the things that actually give rise to like, to stick your atrophy, like ball shrinkage, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a real problem for guys on TRT injections.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's effectively the link there.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, I was going to make a joke, but I won't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably all the women out there don't give a shit about small balls, but you guys probably
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they say, but I think there's a lot of guys that still don't want that to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, fine.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um...
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, how do you determine what is going in your mouth daily twice a day versus what is in the shot?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how do guys know that if they get ahold of you or they want to do the oral thing because now all of the sudden the sounds better, are they still getting the same amount that their doctor has given them once a week?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's, it's not an apples to apples conversion because again, it's going into your into your lymphatic system and that's how it's being absorbed.
[SPEAKER_01]: But generally, there's, there's optionalities on the oral too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you, you can start a dose and see how that's working after a couple of weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then if you need to, you can always go up or go down in, in dosage.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's very flexible depending on how you respond to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And most patients, I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: 75% of our patients from our clinical trials were on, you know, this was called either 300 milligrams, BID, or 400 milligrams, BID, and that dosing seems to work for the overwhelmingly majority.
[SPEAKER_00]: And are they seeing the same results as doing the injectables, which are all of a sudden they're getting more muscle mass, they're feeling better, they're having more than Bito, libito increases as opposed to just seeing it within the blood work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, similarly, we've seen statistically significant changes in a lot of those outcomes, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's energy, mood, sexual encounters.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: Based on the data and anecdotally, what we've seen a lot of patients, yes, you're seeing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one exception I'll say is if the guy is used to, again, very high levels of testosterone and he's been doing that for a very long time, that's just a different animal, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you probably, you know, that's not necessarily the right patient for oral, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when we talk about... You mean, because they like that surge of it, and exactly...
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to get that with the pill.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, I mean, you will feel different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, you feel your energy, you feel better.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't want to say that you don't, but I think there's probably 10% of the population that fits into that pocket where they need that very big surge and they're just looking for something else.
[SPEAKER_01]: That they're probably going to have to stay on injections.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why do you think that testosterone got such a bad name or bad rat for so long?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think, I mean, a couple things, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: sports, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So testosterone is actually controlled substance, and this happened in 1990.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the only hormone that's controlled, and it happened after the Olympics.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Congress actually went ahead and scheduled testosterone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we continue to see things, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sarah, it's in baseball and so forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though testosterone is only a small component of these doping protocols, is really not the driver, I would say, but that gives it a bad rap from that perspective.
[SPEAKER_01]: serve the societal, like, categorization of testosterone, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this male hormone, crazy sex drives, and masculinity, I think that all got
[SPEAKER_01]: rolled up into one, and testosterone as a therapy has become sort of the fallout, if you will, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the societal norms around it have impacted it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the last one I'll say is traditional medicine, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Traditional medicine is not really taught on hormones.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you go to your doctor, I go to my doctor, primary care.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not the first thing they're looking at or it's often they're never looking at it, right, to understand what is happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the interesting thing is definitely on the male side testosterone as a blood test, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very simple.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's cheap.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can take it alongside your cholesterol, all your other stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the single best biomarker into your overall health,
[SPEAKER_01]: your state of inflammation, you'll have an idea if you're in a inflammatory state.
[SPEAKER_01]: It will tell you more about your glucose control and your insulin sensitivity.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does tell you about your cardiovascular and your endothelial health if it's low.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for something that is so telling and so can be so easy, it's really surprising, it's just not check more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so why our doctors not prescribing the oral as much as they are shot?
[SPEAKER_01]: Just, I think it's purely an education bit, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's one that this exists and we have to go out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember, like doctors are notoriously regular doctors, if you will, are notoriously hard to reach, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're running very busy practices.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't really spend time, spend as much time sort of learning about the new therapies because the business of medicine is changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't blame them, frankly, because they,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how practices have had to adapt to survive, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have this one hour with a patient, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: So subsequently, yeah, they don't have hours to keep up with everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, if they have to practice the way that they were taught.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So is your product available right now, and your doctors are using it and prescribing it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so it's available right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've spent considerable more time.
[SPEAKER_01]: We started with academics and yourology because that sort of gives you that leadership perspective, right, if we have Cleveland Clinic is using it, Mayo, Baylor, UCLA, right, these long-cattering.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are massive institutions that are using the product.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really where we started and then we've moved more into concierge medicine, longevity, and the areas that they really understand how important testosterone is.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's already part of the treatment protocols.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then next is kind of currently right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are moving our way back into traditional medicine, whether that's through, you know, endocrinology or primary care and trying to educate folks they are on one, again, why they should be looking at testosterone
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I want to get a little bit more thought from you on on why testosterone is so important in people's medical regime.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've said, this isn't about adding years to your life, but adding life to your years.
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean to you?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really about, again, that is the major portion of longevity to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So being active, being, you know, both cognitively and physically, being able to pursue the activities that you want to into, you know, your, your later years.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's really the key here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can't do that with hormones outside of sleep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nutrition, exercise, and stress, being foundational items that are non-negotiable, hormones if you look at a longevity period, I mean, pyramid, are effectively the next layer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing else is going to work properly if your hormones are out of whack.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I've heard over and over again for women, uh, especially again, going to this menopause stage in their life.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, it's, it's more than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's before it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's after it's continuing and the same thing with men.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys don't have that.
[SPEAKER_00]: One period in your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, it's something that I feel like men forget about or all of a sudden become overly obsessed with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, either you're not paying
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're either not paying attention to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it gradually sneaks up onto you and that becomes your new normal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the other issue with only looking at symptoms and not testing is a lot of people don't realize like the state you're in.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sort of like, again, when you're
[SPEAKER_01]: gaining weight, you don't really realize how much until you've, you know, it's way far past and your clothes absolutely don't fit you, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like these are all gradual scales.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the same thing comes to hormones and how you're feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just, and then you forget how good you could feel or how you should feel.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's sad, frankly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and by the way, I mean, I've been living with my fiance, I guess a year now and I notice when he takes a shot, but I'm going to tell him about your world thing for sure, but he takes a shot once a week when he doesn't take it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I noticed within a week or whatever, it very much works very quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if it's just him or that is what testosterone doesn't mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been on a frame for a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't noticed a bit of a muscle on me.
[SPEAKER_00]: He walks in two weeks later and I'm like, holy shit, what have you been doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he has the line down his arms and he's like, jacked and he's like, I didn't do anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: I took the shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is fascinating what it can do for the people that it, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, yeah, and again, it's about finding the right levels too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I'm a advocate for testing, even the younger ages, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Say you start testing yourself at 30, and you may not have, again, you may not have symptoms or anything like that, but at least at 30, you understood as an individual, what your ideal level might have been, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you're 40, 50, and 60, if you need to optimize or if you need to restore, you have a better idea of where you were as an individual prior to that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and can you express that it's never too late?
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, like you can get on this program in this path and it can help you now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this, all the, your body is quite resilient and smart, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So the second it realizes that it's getting what it needs in terms of, let's call it fuel, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and testosterone being that in this discussion, then it starts adapting.
[SPEAKER_01]: The genes start turning on.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not, they're not lost and totally forgotten.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just dormant if you will.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they can turn on very quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just quickly for people that I know have asked me to ask you about what your thoughts are about pellets.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what you do versus pellets, why not a pellet?
[SPEAKER_01]: So pellets serve, again, there's different reasons they exist for different patients.
[SPEAKER_01]: But two main things what it comes to to pellets.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is,
[SPEAKER_01]: The good thing is, it allows people to sort of set it and forget it, they can get it in and then they don't have to remember it's not part of the routine and so forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: The real downside here is that it's not physiologic, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, you're producing your testosterone every day and pellets are giving you these extended high levels, even more so than that injection is giving you for that one week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Imagine it's giving you this, this is a multi-month period, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're often, again, having these super-physiological levels, and that's just not how your body produces.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the side effect profile is going to be greater, and then again, you also have, like, in today's day and age, you have this minor procedure, you know, you're going to have scars all over your rear end for, you know, the rest of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then pellets also often come out.
[SPEAKER_01]: They extrude.
[SPEAKER_01]: from those incisions and pop out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can't exercise for a week, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot of things that really don't make it conducive to to most patients thinking about hormone therapy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the next frontier for this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like where do you see hormone health going in the next decade?
[SPEAKER_01]: So two main areas in terms of where it's going.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is it comes back
[SPEAKER_01]: full mainstream right so this is both on the mail and female side hormone health is going to be like a non negotiable when people are looking at their overall health and well-being it's going to be in your blood panels it's going to be checked regularly you're going to have your doctors understand it and treating it properly so I think that's going to do wonders for patient health
[SPEAKER_01]: overall like well-being of our society and how they're doing in terms of, again, how they're feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to make massive impacts on preventative health and even health care spend because this is a very effective therapy.
[SPEAKER_01]: in terms of overall health.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it will stay off a number of the other downstream conditions that we are facing and actually do so at a very low cost compared to what most therapies are doing today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this just fully mainstream is going to be one part.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then within that, the second is testosterone and females.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be, again, right alongside, it's,
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of there today if you look at, you know, the discussions around menopause and how it's coming into play, but again, more and more so people are going to realize how much of the equation it actually is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So are women now taking your oral or is it kind of reserved for men at the moment?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not approved for females.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, you know, individual clinicians discretion to use again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Typically, female doses are one-tenth.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a little bit more difficult to achieve today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we are, we are pursuing a program for an accident.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be part of it, but I also, so, so right now is your method of choice for women the creams.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you're not a doctor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sort of.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've seen firsthand, you know, how well if I was your sister, how would you tell me to take it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would probably be a cream or if you could stomach an injection, you know, I love it a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would do that all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you think that's that's good for women, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, again, but what you want to do is really have the frequency as tight as possible, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So if it's three times a week, that's probably where you're not going up and down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And is that more so you believe for women, it matters or for everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: For everyone, for everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And males too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, to recap, I think part of the reason why people hesitate in even doing this because it's a pain in the neck to go see their doctor or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they've all moved to just meeting some doctor that they don't know online.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just want to run through this.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first step is to get your hormone levels tested.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the ways to do that if someone's like, well, it takes me three months to get into see my doctor or I don't have time or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: The best way is to do it through a telehealth provider.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you have a few options online that are solely labs, so you can just get your comprehensive lab work done, and then from there you decide to either take it to your regular doctor, or you can take it to a telehealth doctor, or there are
[SPEAKER_01]: online providers that are comprehensive right they'll do your testing then you'll meet with clinician and if it makes sense you can get prescribed um... hormone therapy so there are you know there are a number of people i mean players today if you will so the spectrum is pretty wide but there are definitely good players
[SPEAKER_00]: to tell a health, though, is it as easy as you have your meeting, they give you the paper work, let's say that you bring into a quest diagnostics or lab, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then those results you get and you decide whether or not you bring it to somebody or there's obviously the concierge, doctor version where they just come to your house and do it all there, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they'll both result like either you can show up to Quest or you can yeah, they'll come to your house and draw those labs, but then you still want that provider visit virtually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're going to review those labs with you and help you understand where things are and what might need to be shifted.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, for people that haven't done this, there's usually an area where you're supposed to fall in, with all your hormones, with testosterone we're talking about, and you will know from having your doctor then, look at this or your provider, they will say you're on the low end, on the high end, or right in the middle.
[SPEAKER_00]: And from there, that's when you decide if you get the therapy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, with someone like using your product, it either is prescribed by a doctor,
[SPEAKER_00]: or because you're part of this pharmaceutical thing, do you guys have your own pharmacy?
[SPEAKER_01]: So we do, we don't have our own, we've partnered with a number of other players out there to effectively for cause of structure to patients.
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, depending on what suits you and sort of how comprehensive you need, I mean, we've worked with full blown longevity platforms.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're looking at hormones and more, and then we've also partnered with people that
[SPEAKER_01]: They effectively just look at your hormones.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you know that's an issue you can go there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've, yeah, we've, for us since day one, and again, part of the reason that we've decided to make this a cash product and not go through insurance was actually for access.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a better way for patients to get access to an innovative product than they would have otherwise.
[SPEAKER_00]: And are there any platforms you can mention that if people are interested in just getting an oral product from you where they can go?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, so there are a couple.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is there whatever those are going to be?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, couple.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, actually, so we did do a partnership with him's and they're going to be launching in 2026.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's going to be a good outlet.
[SPEAKER_01]: But as it stands today, there's a there's two that I'd mentioned to check out.
[SPEAKER_01]: For both mail and female hormones, there's a platform called Thrive.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is actually ThriveBetter.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they are, again, it's almost a long-chevity platform, but they can also do just hormones.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also on the mail side, we have a partner called Gatlin.com that also does a whole host of mail tailored solutions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when you do a platform like that, as the user, do you have to just know that you want it and need it or you have to actually show your lab work to this online platform.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you still have to give them your lab work, either you have to go and get new lab work or you can submit lab work as well, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've just got your your levels checked and you have that lab work, you can also submit it so it's a little bit easier for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know on some of these platforms, you can just say, for like, OZEMPIC, I'm fat, and I want, you know, to get OZEMPIC when somebody's like, 115 pounds, and they just want to be familiar with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's the good thing with this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't really game it in that sense, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's been a bit of a problem for the GOP one space, and there's just a lot of play.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of different companies out there, amongst the whole spectrum.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which give it a bad name because people that don't need it need it if you, you know, it's like a whole thing and people aren't really taking it the right way and taking exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't want that to happen with hormones because it's that important and not a GLP ones are that our are important as well, but yeah, we don't want this space to get, you know, it doesn't need anymore stigma or bad wraps, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to make sure that this is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why we focus on education, honestly, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm out there speaking all the time just on on testosterone and it's roll and then I think that's what we're trying to change here so people can really understand that and then eventually again find their way downstream to the right provider.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, great.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so last question, you kind of covered it, but just so people really get it to hit home.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you could correct one thing, the public misunderstands about testosterone, what would that be?
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I would mention that's important to know here would be how critical low testosterone is or what the impacts of that are, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because again, people sort of disregard it as a general hormone, but I think one simple fact for everyone to know is low testosterone is implicated in what are today referred to as the four,
[SPEAKER_01]: horsemen of disease.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is type two diabetes.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is obesity.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is cancer.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is dementia.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the four big ones that, you know, Peter T. is he coined and talks about pretty much daily.
[SPEAKER_01]: Low testosterone is implicated each of these and that's how important it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also I would say add that and it's not just for men.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just as important for a
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, Charlotte, let people know where they can find you and get more information on your product.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can find me at the Metabolic CEO on Instagram, post a lot of content there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And find out more about the product, KaiserTracts.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's KYZATREX.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm going to stay in touch with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you ever need someone on a trial basis, I want to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will definitely let you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have a great day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Rachel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening to Ms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Understood.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, Rachel, you could tell.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Understood with Rachel, you could tell.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much, and I'll see you next time.