Zero Cups

00:00:16
Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Welcome to the Renee Stunstam's podcast.

00:00:19
Speaker 2: I'm here in New York with Kate Thompson.

00:00:21
Speaker 3: We have recovered from the US Open, have we? I mean I was down for the count for like a solid week.

00:00:27
Speaker 2: You know what did me?

00:00:28
Speaker 1: And actually we didn't discuss this after the US Open because we were still like high on the supply of the US Open.

00:00:35
Speaker 2: But what did me in was the first week? Can I? Yeah, the extra week really grant to tweet dust.

00:00:41
Speaker 1: Well, also you had all those great things going on with racket down at the pier, the seaport, and and so I did stuff there, and I was like back and forth from the city and to this. I mean, so I'm going to confess something, Caitlin and to our viewers.

00:00:57
Speaker 2: This happens from time to time.

00:00:58
Speaker 1: But so so, I don't know when Coco played Isla Tomlanovitch.

00:01:02
Speaker 2: I think it was a Monday night. Was it Monday night? Yeah? I think that's right.

00:01:04
Speaker 1: So I actually had I stay out the I stayed out at LaGuardia Hotel. I won't say which one because I don't want any stock is coming to find me.

00:01:12
Speaker 2: But here's not that many.

00:01:14
Speaker 1: But anyway, I stay at LaGuardia during the time during the US Open because it is literally a ten minute car ride from there to the court. So if you are a tennis fan, honestly and you really dearly only want to go to the tennis and you don't, you're not listen. I stayed in LaGuardia.

00:01:31
Speaker 2: I see.

00:01:31
Speaker 3: I thought this was if you're a tennis fan and you want to starck your favorite athletes, And I was like, well, you're prospecting, You're an anti staking.

00:01:37
Speaker 2: You stock your athletes.

00:01:38
Speaker 1: You need to be in the city, but the athletes in the city, but the But if you're a tennis nut and you'll.

00:01:42
Speaker 3: Commentator, stay in the Warrior, that makes sense. So I geah, I guess you're right. You could just commute ten minutes instead of literally totally.

00:01:48
Speaker 1: So anyway, my point in telling you this is I do live in the city. Of course, we're sitting in my apartment. But I was able to go home a bit this year because our schedules allowed us. And the first I always stay at home, and so I didn't have to work on Monday night and I didn't have to work until a little bit later on Tuesday, so I was like, oh, I'm going to go home.

00:02:09
Speaker 2: I mean, who doesn't want to sleep in their own bed?

00:02:10
Speaker 1: Right?

00:02:11
Speaker 2: So I come home.

00:02:12
Speaker 1: I'm watching Cocos match with Eyler. I am so fucking tired from the from the fan week, yeah, and the you know Stars of the Night or whatever Stars at the Open and you know all the things that happened. It was one all in the third set and it was like literally nine point thirty and I went to bed.

00:02:28
Speaker 2: No, I didn't even watch the third set.

00:02:30
Speaker 1: I just got on you so unlike me and I work because I'm literally up till midnight or one. Like, I text you at like midnight, and I know I'm going to get a text at seven in the morning, which I'm not going to read until like eight thirty.

00:02:41
Speaker 2: I'm traily six fifteen.

00:02:42
Speaker 1: But I don't even know why I text you, but I want you to have it at seven in that that's good.

00:02:46
Speaker 2: We have her own system of communicator. And when you don't hear from me until like nine am, you know, or she just woke up. Yeah.

00:02:50
Speaker 1: So anyway, my point in telling you is I was wrecked up the first week of fan Week and I fell asleep, didn't even watch Cocos match, woke up the next morning, watched the third set, so I knew what the hell had happened, and but I got about ten hours sleep that night, and I was I was back.

00:03:04
Speaker 2: Oh, I was back for two weeks after that, and then what happened, I was pretty good. Like the schedule was not crazy. We didn't have Uber late nights this year.

00:03:13
Speaker 1: I had the one o'clock in the morning match of Osaka and Anissam over and everyone's asked me, what was your favorite match? That For me, that was the best match. Yeah, it was just drama. And as I said as a commentator, you're I was like, oh man, that first semi was so good. Damn mine's not going to be as good.

00:03:30
Speaker 2: And then it was better. Yeah. So anyway, so I don't even know why we got into the USO. Oh, I was on the plate. I was. I had the plague for like five days. You did, and you still sound a little stuffy. I know I'm still a nantibatic, so fuck, but I didn't give it to me. When you came over.

00:03:44
Speaker 3: I think I am you attempted to me. I sort of did a caughe you or something. Anyway, I I just went too hard for too long and now we're back aout now, I will say, and I want to sort of get into this.

00:03:57
Speaker 2: I love tennis. We both do. We have tennis so so much. We have a podcast about it.

00:04:02
Speaker 3: We have a podcast about it, one of the longest running tennis podcasts now in history. Because we do have to talk about some of the newcomers, which I'm very excited about. It's always fun when new people get into the mix. I don't care about any tennis that's happening right now, and I want to know. And I there are people that I like, and I'm like, oh, Emata Kona, I've enjoyed her whole season. I'm glad she won her match in Korea. Maybe I'll put it on later in the background because it obviously happened overnight.

00:04:25
Speaker 2: And egos Ciontech is playing in Korea. Egish Fiantech does not need to be playing in Korea. She must be getting so much money to go there. I guess appearance phase.

00:04:32
Speaker 3: But I just, you know, I wanted to talk about this because I think one of the things that's so fantastic about this year in tennis, and you know, the mix the US US have been got sort of the diehards were sort of I think, I don't say alienated, but the diehards felt like, oh, okay, well now we've like fully given this tournament over to the newcomers, which I get their point. There's a lot of people taking selfies, not paying attention to the tennis. The grounds are act because USTA just sells so many tickets.

00:05:02
Speaker 2: Some would say, you know, they're shaking the seating next year.

00:05:04
Speaker 3: Well, before we get into that, I just kind of want to make the larger point that, like with the influx of new fans and the record viewership and record ticket sales and record sales of Honeyduces and all this stuff and TV writings and TV ratings, like, it's all for me net positive. Sometimes it comes maybe at the expense of people who are diehards who like to have you know, the grand stand to themselves. But I think this is a good problem to have. It means the sport is growing. And I also want to encourage people who only go to the US Open or only see this one tournament to go to other ones because a lot of them are much much much better now.

00:05:38
Speaker 2: In different ways, in different ways.

00:05:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not just slight the US Open, but nothing based spanning, not very beatsks.

00:05:44
Speaker 1: I will say this, nothing beats the the.

00:05:49
Speaker 2: Manic, crazy light, crazy shit that.

00:05:51
Speaker 1: Happens unless you're in a nosebleed seating. You can't move down. Oh my god, you're there. Well, this and Nash Stadium is the worst. It's not a great stadium in the world.

00:05:58
Speaker 3: Now again, my point I'm bringing this up is not to debate the pros and cons of the US Open, but rather to say, you know, we have this fantastic culmination of a summer series. We go from Australia into you know, the Middle East, the South America, we go all these places, we go to Europe for a time, then we come back to the States.

00:06:16
Speaker 2: We have this hardcourt series.

00:06:17
Speaker 3: We have amazing matches, and then the US Open happens and it's like amazing. Caroll Bouchard, a French writer on her sub stack, made the very very excellent point and framing it as you know, if you go to a play, a three act play, you don't want all the action to happen in the second act and then the second act be the big exciting stuff, and then what's happening in the third act, and it does feel like tennis is now having the third act of the season, where there's exhibitions, there's some tournaments in Asia.

00:06:46
Speaker 1: There's Billy Jing King cupsky Sa Billaging King Cup, I've a Cup, Labor Cup. Who like even cares about Labor Cup? And so is this the best and most exciting third act? And some would say, while we've got the two finals and everyone cares about that, And I would say, do they some people care about that. I get that there's a lot of money involved in it. Obviously it's not a new topic because we've talked about this before. But I just I think she raises a good point, which is, especially with the influx of new fans, what is keeping them around and what is the sort of follow up dessert course.

00:07:18
Speaker 3: Of the US Open? And if this is it, then I think we have to rethink it. Not only because the players are all you know, dead and bloodied and buried along the way kind of thing, because they're all exhausted and a lot of them are doing this out of either appearance fee or national pride. Right now, we're watching Paula Badosa play Elina Spadelina, you know, to a crowd of tens in Shenzen for Billageing King Cup, and it's.

00:07:41
Speaker 2: Like, well, I love those players, but what are we doing?

00:07:45
Speaker 3: So I don't know that I have the answer to that, but it does feel like it's an emergency.

00:07:51
Speaker 2: I think this is more than ten Let's just be honest. This this actually.

00:07:55
Speaker 3: Brought ten people. But my point is it's not a packed, rollicking stadium.

00:07:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:07:59
Speaker 1: Well, it's hot to see how many people are there because they don't show the full stadium, and from what I can see, there's an entire box on the right that's got one person in it. But the first ten rows look pretty full. It's just what's after that.

00:08:14
Speaker 3: I think it's hard to say that this is probably drawing the in prison crowds that it deserves.

00:08:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, we couldn't argue that.

00:08:21
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, listen, yeah, it's we've talked about this a lot in the pod over the years, and it's like after the US Open, everyone does think that tennis is over. You know, from a from a macro standpoint, I think we tennis players it's not a joy to like schlap over to Asia and spend like a month over there, because you just feel like you're so far from everything unless you're Asian. Unless you're Asian, it's amazing. Like for Chinese players or you know, any of the Asian players, it's great. They can fly like two hours and they don't get that opportunity. As an Australian, I get that, and I understand out of and it's not great and it's not easy. But yeah, I mean, but how do we solve this because you know, the amount of money that Billy jan Kin Cup is offering now is enormous. Like God, when I played, if I was getting like five grand I just represent my country and like take away prize money, I was having a good day. Now they're winning hundreds of thousand, thousands of dollars to play in it. So the fact that Gainbridge and all these great sponsors and Billy and Alana have done an amazing job with all these sort of like sponsors to come in and support support the w to support the Billy Jean King Cup. But it just it just maybe if they continue to have it, there becomes like something that and I do, like I said this to you before we start the pod, I do like the fact that it is in Shenzen for one reason only all the players are going to Asia, They're going to Beijing, They're going there, and so this is a way for them to start the Asian tour. So I like that concept a lot. The problem is, you're not going to get people from Spain going to Shenzhen. You're not going to get people from Ukraine going to Shenzen.

00:10:02
Speaker 2: You're not going to get.

00:10:03
Speaker 1: People from the Czech Republic really going to Shenzen. So who are you, you know before? Who is this for homo spectators?

00:10:10
Speaker 3: But I mean, I think part of my point is maybe the location, which I get, and I think that you're right, you're making a good point about the time zone and acclimating to you know, that.

00:10:19
Speaker 2: Part of the world.

00:10:20
Speaker 3: I actually mean it less because I think, you know, I was watching some of the Davis Cup, which was other places in the last few weeks, and it's it's also not it's it to me. It has more to do with a calendar than it has to do with the.

00:10:32
Speaker 2: Location the finals. At least it's true.

00:10:35
Speaker 1: But this is the BJK Cup is the finals right now, so it's going to be done right right, whereas the guys are not done until like freaking November.

00:10:43
Speaker 2: It's a joke.

00:10:44
Speaker 3: I just I'm sort of challenging the notion because I think I am somebody who wants tennis in Asia, I'm somebody who wants tennis in Latin America. I'm somebody who wants tennis a lot of different places, because I think that's one of the coolest parts of our sport is we have players and fans all over the world. I don't think that the tournament in shinzen Is is not a good idea because of fanship and sponsors. Although you know, you can always have the conversation, I think it's a bad idea because it's hard to care about anything after the US Open, including the tour finals, which you know, you could put in the same category, which is like you know, the piff rankings and everyone who the race to the thing, and it's like, well, do if any player on the tour still if you say you could be number one at the end of the year, or you could win a slam, yeah, they're going to say slam one of the players, Yeah, Yanny.

00:11:34
Speaker 2: People that say they don't want to win a slam.

00:11:36
Speaker 1: Wheelchair got to number one in the world and didn't get a slam, and didn't get a slam. I'm sure, like you know, uh, Carolina Pliskova.

00:11:43
Speaker 3: Carolina Pliskova, or I'm thinking about uh, you know the Russian player, uh with this crazy serve.

00:11:49
Speaker 2: Remember her, she wanted silver medal at the Olympics. They got to number one.

00:11:53
Speaker 1: Was a Serbian friend, who oh, Yolena Yankovic Jankovic, who can forget Ilena?

00:11:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, That's what I'm saying.

00:12:00
Speaker 1: They would absolutely like like Eva Mayoli won the French Open, didn't get to number one, I think she would take the French Ope.

00:12:06
Speaker 2: And I've been getting to number one. I think so. So I think there is.

00:12:10
Speaker 1: I mean, they're both amazing, but I think you don't want one without the other.

00:12:14
Speaker 3: I think what why this feels pertinent to me this year more than past times when we've talked about it and it has remained true, is that now tennis, very clearly from a outside in perspective, has been succeeding in on the upswing, both recreational and people spectating the pro game. From a institutional standpoint, I think a lot of these stakeholders, the Grand Slams, the marketing, the brands, the athletes themselves have embraced the idea that there are a lot of there's an influx of new eyeballs and new participants and new people who care about it. I think that's wonderful. That's what we've sort of been waiting for. And when I started record a decade ago, it was like, why are you doing tennis? It's a sport that's dying, And I was like, not to me. Now I don't have to make that case anymore. I don't have to explain why this is relevant and why people care about it and why it's a larger addressable market than just people who buy rackets, because there's so many people who just want to experience the lifestyle of it. Great, So what are we doing from a product standpoint that's helping them?

00:13:13
Speaker 2: And this isn't it? Yeah?

00:13:15
Speaker 1: Well, I mean some people might argue that Asia is a huge, clearly huge market and they're getting tennis there and they're going to have tennis grow in that part of the world. I don't know, but it is difficult. We've talked about it at nauseum. I think that all the other exhibitions dilute the product. I would love to see, frankly, i'd love to see combined. I think Davis Cup and Fed Cup, Billy Jean King Cup. It's so hard for me. I played Fed Cup for like twenty years. But the BJK Cup and Davis Cup are so important to the grassroots of sport of tennis in every country. There's nothing like representing your country. It was my favorite weeks of the year was playing in BJK Cup for Australia. There were some of the most memorable weeks. So these weeks are great. But and you do have a team bonding, it doesn't really matter where you are, so I think it's really important. I just think we need to as a as a as a sport really come up with the best product and whatever that means. And I think a mixed event would be amazing. Whether you know, Hopman Cup was great at the start of the year. I think that's an opportunity to do it. I mean, we do, they do have a Hopman Cup. It was again earlier this year. Nobody remembered it or knew about it. Italy won it in Italy and it was crazy crowds and it was amazing, But the only people that cared about it were Italy in Italy because nobody else saw it unless you were like glue to it. On Tennis channel and not. I mean I'm a tennis fan and I forgot about it. I didn't even know what was happening because it was after Wimbledon, so everyone's like, Okay, what's next, yous Open?

00:14:52
Speaker 2: So that's sort of the problem.

00:14:54
Speaker 1: And then we're having issues like after Wimbledon, people are pulling out of the Canadian tournaments like Sinner and our Carez and you know, Sablanka and all this, and then you know, we also wanted to talk about the fact that like Sabalalanka is pulled out of Beijing, that's not tomorrow, that's like it's in two weeks. You know, the fact that she's.

00:15:11
Speaker 3: Already decided that she's essentially shutting down a chunk of the season.

00:15:15
Speaker 1: And she said for a minor injury. So what does that even mean? So she just here's the deal. These players have decided, and she's going to take a zero point there. She doesn't care she's gonna have to pay a fine. Oh no, she might not have to pay a fine because she isn't a quote unquote injury, right, So but she's not playing there. Eager is pulled out of Korea, you know, Anissimova pulled out of Korea as well, because these tournaments are too close to a Grand Slam. And I feel sorry for those tournaments because they literally are putting on their one event all year and spending a lot of money and trying to get the sponsors. And it's hard to continually get sponsors if the top players pull out. And I get the whole big picture, but I mean, these players are their own bosses and they have to take care of their own body and their own mind.

00:15:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a lot fucking season.

00:15:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think all to me, all of this, Yes, we can innovate around the mix. I think that's a great idea to mix BJK and Davis. It's not the first time that's been suggested. I think it's a brilliant idea. I think it again leans into the thing that is the most exciting about our sport, which is that that's.

00:16:12
Speaker 1: An opportunity to have a week ten day event instead of these mustas and WT at one thousands having a ten day event, I'm just ruining the calendar.

00:16:20
Speaker 2: The schedule is broken. Because the schedule is broken. It's broken, and it's broken.

00:16:24
Speaker 3: It's broken, and the amount of time and you know, I see the tennis world from a little bit of a different perspective because I see all these like pitch decks circulating for people trying to raise money for new business ideas, which is exciting and cool. And don't get me wrong, like I love the fact that tennis is now being identified as a place where there's growth possible again for the same reasons I was just talking about, where people are like, oh, it's dying. Who cares, I'm going to invest in pickleball instead. It's like cool, good, have fun with that, reaching a down market audience with a dying dumb I believe you even brought that. We with a you know, with a dying populace of participants. But I do think the you know, the business opportunity isn't exhibition.

00:17:02
Speaker 2: It's not more exhibitions.

00:17:03
Speaker 3: It's like, I know, we'll get an exhibition and we'll put on the calendar and we'll get the best players available. It's like, well, respectfully, like labor Cup is happening right now, does Roger Feder have to go to it to make people care about it? And even now do they? I don't think so, you know, it's it's San Francisco is getting an event, which is great. They California has been bereft. Yeah, we had weside women's events there for a long long time. You know the fact that Los Angeles doesn't have an event that San Francisco after losing San Jose, which you know is a different city, but essentially the Bay Area lost its major women's event a couple of years ago. Like, you know, you want to bring tennis to these places. On the other hand, it's like, is Labor Cup.

00:17:44
Speaker 1: Yes, And I just, well, it's only going to be there one time and then it's gone.

00:17:48
Speaker 3: I just I don't see the exhibition. To me a strong body of tours and I think I'm probably ready to say like, I'm not sure the tours bring much value to the tennis world. All they seem to do is want to do their own commercial deals and market the players poorly, and they don't have any brand equity in and of themselves.

00:18:08
Speaker 2: I don't know what they do outside. That's the problem.

00:18:10
Speaker 3: Provide insurance to me, an actual players union where they can just deal with one body on the other side of the negotiating table is so obviously the answer. It's like, okay, great that the Slams consolidate and the players negotiate directly with them. They decide on a calendar, and they decide on a series of rules, and then Bob's your uncle. Like other sports have figured this out, and I get that people don't want to give up.

00:18:33
Speaker 1: They don't want to give up their small tournaments and they don't want to give up their little thing.

00:18:36
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean it's outside pressure now between capital and fanship has made this undeniable and it's going to happen. So to me, it's just like which side do you want to be on? And you want to be on the side that's you know, that's foot forward, that's sort of leading what the future looks like.

00:18:51
Speaker 2: I don't care. I mean, we sit on We're going to be going to be round nom matter what.

00:18:56
Speaker 3: We're talking to the audience, and we're talking to people who want to understan and need to understand and need to have the context. It's more just like, you know, I don't have a strong opinion whether it's private equity from any particular country, whether it's you know, who wins and who loses. Probably you know the amoratis are in there as well. Yeah, that's not to stop an American or North American Consortium.

00:19:16
Speaker 2: You know, Bill Gates, Bill Gates, it doesn't matter, you got all the money.

00:19:20
Speaker 3: It's more just like, let's have this happen already so that the product could be optimized, and so we don't have a brilliant group of players half dead from playing too long a season, playing a bunch of stuff in places that should have events that are hard to draw attention and fanship too. So that's to me the biggest missed opportunity. And I just like, we have to fix our third act.

00:19:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have talked about that a lot, and we have to keep talking about it. And we're sorry if we bored you on that. But Caitlyn came in here red hot on it today.

00:19:54
Speaker 3: Caitlin, Well, we can't talk about the Tenus because nobody's we haven't watched very much of it.

00:19:58
Speaker 2: Well, we haven't watched a lot of it.

00:19:59
Speaker 1: And that just show me that my interest, even my interest level on it, it's it's it's hard to get back up. And I wanted to take I'll be honest with you, I wanted to take a break from watching tennis for the last week because I'd watched so much tennis over the last couple of months. Speaking of Asia, let's talk about Taylor Townsend's.

00:20:24
Speaker 2: Little whoopsie doopsy.

00:20:26
Speaker 1: She's getting a little bit of flak over on her Instagram TikTok or whatever.

00:20:30
Speaker 3: T Tanden went to China and made fun of all of their food.

00:20:33
Speaker 1: It was a couple of things that she particularly made fun of. Not gonna lie, it didn't look great either. But I think lived in China. I've lived in China. I have eaten everything in China. Have you eaten those things that she one of them? I bogs on sticks. I ate every kind of meat.

00:20:49
Speaker 2: You eat?

00:20:50
Speaker 3: That frog that she was talking about, I've been frog, yeah, in China, both.

00:20:53
Speaker 2: Frog in fact. And how was it just out of curiosity? Not to my taste?

00:20:58
Speaker 3: But is it like snails out of As a parent, you teach your kids not to yuck somebody else is young. It's sort of like a fundamental thing about life. Yeah, Like, what are you doing, bro, especially when you're gonna get everybody's sympathy on your side for having been on the receiving end of a you know, nasty outburst from ilen Asta Penco. Like, do I think this is a capital offence?

00:21:18
Speaker 2: No?

00:21:18
Speaker 3: But I don't like when any American goes anywhere. You know, you talk to like the John Isners of the world and they're like, yeah, I hated going to Europe because they don't have a olive garden, and you're like, that's embarrassing for you, that's embarrassing. So like show some curiosity about the space you're living in and maybe don't make fun of it. I you know, I'm not ready to like get on Taylor Townsend too much about this, but I just think like Nobo lived in that part of the world, and part of the cool thing about tennis is it takes you all the different places very much. Is anybody forcing you to eat any of this?

00:21:47
Speaker 2: No, listen, Yea said.

00:21:49
Speaker 1: I went to lunch with Kichita Matinez in Barcelona this one time, and she was ordering all this food.

00:21:56
Speaker 2: I'm telling you this for a reason.

00:21:57
Speaker 1: She was ordering all this food and then she's like, yeah, try this this and I ate it and she goes, that's you know, that's pig's blood, and I go, excuse me. I was like, first of all, you could have told me that, but it was like this like patty thing of whatever, and she told me what it was and I was like, I want to die. But it's like, I think the problem is when you have a platform, and when you have a large platform and you go on your tiktoks and your instagrams you have and look, we've all done it.

00:22:25
Speaker 2: We've all fucked up.

00:22:25
Speaker 1: We've all put shit out that we probably regret putting out at some point you included Caitlin.

00:22:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of Eastern Europe doesn't love me.

00:22:33
Speaker 1: And for good reason. Fair, for good reason, we've all done it. But you have to recognize if you have a big platform, you have to say to yourself, what does this insinuate? And what am I.

00:22:47
Speaker 2: Saying in this situation?

00:22:49
Speaker 1: And yes, maybe most people don't want to eat frogs, but at the same time.

00:22:56
Speaker 3: Most people from North America maybe exactly, so you have to from North America.

00:23:02
Speaker 1: But to your team, dinners, Ye, go to your team dinners. I've been to many at BJK Cup and you can laugh about stuff and say whatever you want to your fellow teammates and your team, but you have to be real careful what you put out. And I'm I'm sure she is obviously knowing that right about now, but yes, I.

00:23:22
Speaker 2: Mean, is it is it going to Is it going to change the world?

00:23:25
Speaker 3: No?

00:23:26
Speaker 2: Did she mean was she being mean about it?

00:23:29
Speaker 1: Like?

00:23:29
Speaker 2: Was she being a terrible person?

00:23:31
Speaker 1: No?

00:23:32
Speaker 2: But you just have to be real careful.

00:23:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I just like full philosophically, I wouldn't yuck somebody's young, Like, what's the point of that. But I do think that that gives us a nice transition into speaking of platforms, which is the.

00:23:43
Speaker 2: Rise of.

00:23:46
Speaker 3: People in the digital space making content, particularly players. We have two new podcasts. Some of the most popular podcasts now in the space are the Andi Ratic Served podcast. I talked to Jessica Testa for The New York Times about why I think that's a successful one and why I think a lot of these outsider shows, even if they're hosted by pros, are super additive to the space. And then right off the back of that, obviously we have nothing major with four you know, former pro male players. Now we have the Player's Box, which is you know, Mattie Keys, Jess Pagoula does Jenny Brady crab.

00:24:21
Speaker 2: Check and Anny Brady.

00:24:23
Speaker 1: Then the Williams Sisters yes getting into the mix actually today launching their show on Days which I'm do.

00:24:29
Speaker 2: You think your audience will be the same as this. I probably Yeah.

00:24:33
Speaker 1: I mean I think people I love your enth No think here's the thing, this is what between.

00:24:37
Speaker 2: To our audience size.

00:24:38
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:24:39
Speaker 3: No, but I think people who like tennis content are and also we know from podcast consumption habits, people don't just listen to one thing.

00:24:47
Speaker 2: No, they don't.

00:24:48
Speaker 1: And I think that's like when we you know, we're not sitting here going oh andy Roddick is going to take our audience or you know, Serena and Venus nos. People love tennis and people want different voices in tennis, and you know a Venus and Serain are going to talk about the nuances of the Asia swing.

00:25:06
Speaker 2: No.

00:25:06
Speaker 3: No, I hope to learn so much more about them. I think they're so fascinating. Like some of the things I always wanted to know more about is, you know, the fact that they live in France, the fact that they are art collectors, like oh yeah, the fact that they're going to learn.

00:25:20
Speaker 1: A lot more obviously things about them that I know, but also that they should know about them to make them, you know, not just seeing as these incredible athletes.

00:25:30
Speaker 3: I got I got asked this a lot, like in the last couple of years. There was an Italian magazine that started about tennis called Dropshot. There was a British magazine that started called Bageld. There's a fun quarterly zine in Portland called Tennis Portland Tennis Quarterly. Like to me, the fact that Racket sits alongside other really cool titles from different parts of the world, Like I read all of them, like it's cool. I collect all of them. I don't you know, I don't view Bigel as a threat. I view it as like, oh, this is cool. This is like a British gay man's fashion magazine that sits alongside my more sort of literary magazine that sits alongside like yes, and and I think for me, the whole thing that I've sort of been talking about, which is why I want us to so desperately fix the calendar, is because tennis is getting it to do. It's getting all of these different voices that it's always deserved, it's getting all of these different media formats, and so to me it is additive.

00:26:19
Speaker 2: Do I like all of them? No? But like here's the thing.

00:26:21
Speaker 3: I don't want to yuck anybody's young, like you, like you don't want to lean into that great.

00:26:26
Speaker 1: And they don't realize that it takes its work and it's not easy to like get people together and do the do the thing. And so we hope all of these tennis podcasts are successful because that just makes that that that just makes our sport even more.

00:26:44
Speaker 2: They will each bring in it's dimensioned sport.

00:26:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, And whether those those fans listen to other things Lislead other things, I can't imagine they want. I was just on asy Fuds, fud Around and find Out podcasts last week, which, if anyone knows, easy Fad. She use a Yukon basketball player on the national Natty team last year that won the national title. She's going back to Connecticut. She's a huge like people you know love her and she's going to be a superstar in the WNBA when she decides. She'll probably go number one after the season. And she's doing a podcast and I was on that she wanted to talk about tennis. She wanted to talk about, you know, her time at the US Open. She also wanted she was also thinking, you know, it's a nice audience because I come from a sporting background, blah blah blah. So hopefully people that listen to that are also like, oh, I'm going to watch a little tennis or maybe go to WNBA game that are tennis fans. There's like it's that you can cross promote different sports, and I think it's it's only going to make it better. So one interesting thing, Caitlin, that we do want to talk about also is that Kadjikova and sinney Kova a playing doubles together in Korea.

00:27:48
Speaker 3: This is Barbara Kadjugova, who has won two slams in singles and multiple in doubles with Caterinette Sineyakoba. Yeah, who is a fan favorite. I mean people love Kaiya Sniakova. She's a gold medalist.

00:28:03
Speaker 1: Well, arguably the best doubles player of the last ten five to ten years.

00:28:07
Speaker 3: I think this is a smart move. They're both excellent doubles.

00:28:09
Speaker 2: Well.

00:28:09
Speaker 1: It's interesting to me though, that they're going back to play together because they're playing in a small tournament, so it's kind of it's it's interesting to me, so I listen, huh, I've done this a few times in my career. But at certain points of the year you start looking at next year, who you're going to play doubles with next.

00:28:27
Speaker 2: Year, So you're saying you are predicting it.

00:28:29
Speaker 1: Well, what I'm predicted thinking that this is an interesting little rekindling of a doubles team. And I know Jacoba has not done well in her doubles career since breaking up with snow Kova. They played together since the very young age, like early teenage years, like twelve thirteen, and then they played together their whole career and one, you know, so many Grand Slams together. You know, Look, Kat has had success with Taylor, having won two I believe two Grand Slams, he Strain Open, Wimbledon, but probably not the success that she is used to.

00:29:04
Speaker 3: You're saying she would have won that Gabby Debrowski Aaron rautleth Us Open final had she been playing with her.

00:29:10
Speaker 2: I don't know that think of it that that. I don't know.

00:29:12
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is that this is interesting. I'm just putting it out there. We'll see what happens at this train Open who ends up playing together. Clearly, Taylor and Kudjikov have been a great team. They have already qualified for the WTA finals in Riad and so I don't know, stay tuned on that, because it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they would play together unless.

00:29:37
Speaker 2: Tournaments at the end of the year. So I don't know if I'm breaking.

00:29:41
Speaker 1: News or if this is just a maybe Taylor didn't want to go one off here because she was scared.

00:29:44
Speaker 2: Of the food. Well she's not in Korea, because that's what he's saying. Maybe she didn't want to go.

00:29:48
Speaker 1: She's playing Billy jing Kin Cup and the checks not in it, which is a rarity because they usually dominate.

00:29:55
Speaker 2: So I don't know throwing that out there.

00:29:57
Speaker 1: That's an interesting little situation, and I might be just jumping to a massive conclusion. And if I am, well, then so be it. Let's talk about my old player friend, plishkober back playing in Lisbon for remember one in Lisbon, and she won her first round in like three hours. I did speak to her after the match and she said her body was feeling pretty good actually, which is nice.

00:30:22
Speaker 2: But it's great to see her back.

00:30:23
Speaker 1: Former world number one, came so close to winning a major at the US Open and she lost a Cerba made the semi finals a couple of times, so for me, it's just nice to see somebody who had a terrible injury and then came back from that terrible injury when she was really playing well, made the finals of Wimbledon, all the things, and then and then something crazy happened with her foot at the US Open and she just stopped in like the first game, and then we haven't seen her since. So it's just nice to see her back. I'm really happy. You know, how much success is she going to have coming back.

00:30:52
Speaker 2: I don't know.

00:30:52
Speaker 1: There's so many great players, but listen, with her foehand and her serve, she can get back. So I just I just on a us on note. I'm really happy to see her back playing. And we've had a couple of teenagers when yovic Eva is Yeah, Eva Jovis seventeen, seventeen teenagers is seven and zero on the WTA Finals Guadalahara.

00:31:14
Speaker 2: She won Guadalajara. What an effort. She's such a great little player tenacity, plus.

00:31:19
Speaker 3: She did not have the world's most stacked field.

00:31:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was a smaller tournament, but just the fact that she won her first WTA tournament, it's pretty awesome. So I want to give her big kudos. Seventeen years of age and has an amazing competitive head on her shoulders, so well done to her. We will be back next week, hopefully talking about things that are a lot more interesting.

00:31:41
Speaker 3: Than You can't shit on the entirety of our conversation not being interesting now.

00:31:46
Speaker 1: It's more along the lines of, like, it's this conversation we've been having for so long. I just want us as a tennis community to do better about promoting.

00:31:54
Speaker 2: The sport after but how do you do that when it's in Asia?

00:31:58
Speaker 3: It's I don't think the problem is Asia. I think we need tennis in Asia. I think the problem is we have to cut out a whole lot of other stuff that doesn't make sense.

00:32:08
Speaker 1: You've got the top player in the world pulling out of a WTA one thousand, like three weeks before it's even happening.

00:32:14
Speaker 2: That's what are we doing right? And to me, it's not the fact I've got Ego playing in Korea.

00:32:20
Speaker 3: I think the problem is not that these tournaments exist, and the problem is not where they exist. I think the problem is that there's too much stuff and we have mis the product.

00:32:29
Speaker 2: It lose a product.

00:32:30
Speaker 3: There's too much stuff and it's time and I think that's why we keep having this conversation because it doesn't get fixed. But also I think because now more than ever, the tours are the weakest they've ever been. In my opinion, the Grand Slams are the strongest they've ever been because they're the ones that command all the audience. The athletes themselves have individual platforms that dwarf most of these smaller tournaments, and I think they actually have to create a feasible body themselves or decide to empower their own tours to really advocate in their bad interest. And I also think they have to start saying no to these dumb exos that don't mean anything. So for me, it's it's yeah, because it's the players needing to do it. And also the governing body is somebody just being an adult in the room and saying, Aliso, you have to the.

00:33:12
Speaker 1: Exos are taking weeks out of the calendar that you know. And then this is the one thing that ticks me off. It's like, and I know they're doing it for money, so it's like, good for them, get the money, get the bag, get the bag players, But at the same time, you cannot complain about the tours and the weeks and how difficult it is and how many tournaments you have to play and I'm emotionally drained and blah blah when you keep playing them. But you're playing these exhibitions and stuff. And the difference is, Caitlin, you're playing exhibitions. Is no pressure, right, You're just playing for the money. You don't give a shit. You're like, you're not like stressed out about it. You're not waking up the morning going oh my god, I hope win today. I hope a wind today. You just like taking the money. But but at this like Davis Cup, not Labor Cup. No guys waking up going oh my god, I hope wind to day. I mean they want to win for their teammates. Yeah, they're not even playing regular tournament. They're not playing a regular set. They're not playing like it. It's just dumb. And so you can't complain about being exhausted at the start of the Australian Open or exhausted at the end of the year playing the ATP Finals when you're playing three other exhibitions leading into that event.

00:34:12
Speaker 2: So that's the thing.

00:34:14
Speaker 1: Don't complain out loud to the tours about the tours. When the tours the complaint should be you guys are letting us play exhibitions.

00:34:23
Speaker 2: They should be saying no.

00:34:24
Speaker 3: Like you said no, somebody's going to see now, and you know, hopefully it's the pressure is greater than ever from outside.

00:34:31
Speaker 1: All right, I'm that guys on playing Billy Jean king Cup. They're doing the right thing. I think you have to support Billy Jean king Cup and Davis Cup. I think they're very important for I think they're very important for the nation of the sport, the camaraderie for the sport I do. I love I Maybe I'm talking from a personal standpoint, but I think they're really important and they're great. Let's just figure out a way to make these team things and these exhibitions work better for everybody.

00:35:00
Speaker 2: On that note, thanks for joining us this week.

00:35:03
Speaker 1: Send your complaints to Caitlin send them to send them to Caitlin.

00:35:08
Speaker 2: Thanks, Thanks everyone, See you next week. Bye mm hmmm.