E312- When Your Dog Doesn’t Like Someone… So What

[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the NoBad Dogs podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an excellent podcast episode with the dog owner who needs to hear the truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes it's the truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to hear.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure you guys, especially if you have a reactive dog can relate to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the dog is, well, you'll hear.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: As always, guys, I wouldn't post it if I didn't think it was something new and something fresh, something you couldn't learn, something from.
[SPEAKER_01]: going on tour of this summer and fall.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm super excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing a facility.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing a seminar at my facility at the Upstate Canaan Academy.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're also coming to England.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're also going to Australia and New Zealand tickets to see me live and work with me and learn more about dogs and cut it up and hang out and talk dogs and just be part of the no-bad dog army is in the description below.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can't wait to see you guys meet you guys and drill the podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I have a five-ish year old
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, ninety pound American bully named Graham.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I rescued him, March of twenty twenty three.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, um, I volunteer for the rescue.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and so I kind of knew right away that he had exhibited some behavioral issues, um, the medical coordinator kind of filled me in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he had, um, growl at his previous foster's parents.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he had some medical issues, but um, he got along really well with my resident dogs at the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a fifteen-year-old am staff at a, um, four-year-old American bully, um, fifty-five-thousand American bully and go along really well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I knew he had some, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: apprehension with, I guess he was people selective.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and it was fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've had bully breeds for over twenty years, so I kind of had an idea of what I was working with.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, it was an issue for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think as time went on, I don't know if he just became more protective, but he started exhibiting stronger aggression.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so like I said, I rescued him in March in August of twenty twenty three.
[SPEAKER_02]: He bit my husband.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, at the front door as he was trying to make him out of his, um, last walk, um, had a pretty good puncture wound.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he didn't go to the hospital, but he had a pretty good size puncture wound.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and that was around right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like if my memory is correct, that's right when you got him around there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was about five months after we got him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in between the time I got them until the time he bit my husband, I did consult with the rescue's trainer to kind of discuss, you know, just some of the behavioral issues that we were having.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we she had us work with place, some commands hand feeding stuff like that, like really basic stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And some of it did help.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think Grant, I wasn't present.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in another room when Graham had bit my husband, Damian.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think he was resource guarding the door because the other dogs were there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Damian was trying to take one dog out of time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think just his excitement, Graham can be very intense.
[SPEAKER_02]: He just bit Damian.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I talked to the rescue about it, they recommended a behaviorist.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know anything about a behaviorist before.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I took him,
[SPEAKER_02]: Now you do, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So we spent the hour tossing treats to ground and sending me home was prescription of Zoloft.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's very nice, but I obviously didn't sit well with me.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's when I started really looking into
[SPEAKER_02]: dog training specifically for like aggression and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's no came across your stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I literally went down a deep rabbit hole of your online courses.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of your videos, all of your tutorials, everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I went all of it and all of your podcasts, all the
[SPEAKER_02]: Trainers, everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was head deep and behavioral modification training.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had to say thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's helped a great deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have made great strides.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the reason why I decided to schedule deployment is because I feel like I'm stuck.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if there's more that I can do to help Graham improve, or if this is just now, or just
[SPEAKER_02]: maintaining.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have looked into doing your transformation program or even.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just know if I'm like beyond my training capability at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what do you, I know that that happened a couple years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you dealing with now?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the, what's the stick right now with you in Graham?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's,
[SPEAKER_02]: He does amazingly well on his walks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he doesn't pull loosely walks.
[SPEAKER_02]: His training is great.
[SPEAKER_02]: His commands are great.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just very people selective.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we walk, I can usually tell when he's he fixates a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I call it he'd locks and loads.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he fixates.
[SPEAKER_02]: He has those silica's hair stands up.
[SPEAKER_02]: He gets very tense.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when that happens, if I don't catch it prior to that happening, he'll lunge up people and bark and kind of lose his mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: As long as I can.
[SPEAKER_02]: Gaging his great, he will not fit into.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're breaking up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you're moving or not.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if it's my wife.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if I, if I don't, like if a dog's coming around a corner and I don't catch him in time, he loses his mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if... So is it only the, is it only the surprise around the corner reaction?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's any time that I don't catch it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's any time I'm not catching it prior to him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, you know, getting to notice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what do you, so you can successfully, if you catch him, you can successfully dismantle him and he's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there are also, but there are also certain times, for instance,
[SPEAKER_02]: My father-in-law used to watch the dogs when we first got Graham.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the reason why he stopped watching the dogs was because Graham started growling at that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've worked really hard to try and get Graham to feel comfortable with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's just that something happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't like that, but he
[SPEAKER_02]: Whenever dad's over, we have him on a leash.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've walked with dad.
[SPEAKER_02]: He can dad can write in the car with us with Graham.
[SPEAKER_02]: Any of you both, and he's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the other day, or a couple of weeks ago, for Father's Day weekend, he lunched that dad.
[SPEAKER_02]: No reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't see any indication from Graham.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had just walked three blocks with dad.
[SPEAKER_02]: And
[SPEAKER_02]: And dad was standing off to the sign that Graham just saw him and just lunged.
[SPEAKER_02]: And luckily, you know, I caught him in time.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's been the hardest thing for us to try and get a hold of is trying to figure out how to best deal with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: deal with lunging at dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what is outside of so for me that my my initial reaction to it is he just may not like dad and there's not what you can never do about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some dogs who especially these big American bully.
[SPEAKER_01]: at their their they could be edgy they could be super suspicious they could be a couple owner single dog owner type dog some I mean any dog breed but I'm just in my experience with the bully breeds when they get to this point for whatever reason genetics history all you know whatever who knows but here here's from a dog training standpoint it's
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of trying to figure out is the juice worth the squeeze of okay we have a dog that doesn't may not like that okay so it's like okay well dad it'd be nice if dad could come over and watch the dog and walk the dog while we're gone I agree that would be amazing I I deal with that on a regular basis here in my house hold as I
[SPEAKER_01]: Travel and we scrambled to get somebody to cover for the dogs and Anyway, but there's so I get the convenience of that, but then there's this Reality of well-gram What's the ROI here is?
[SPEAKER_01]: Graham doesn't like dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't want dad to get hurt obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want anybody to get hurt and sorry
[SPEAKER_01]: it's like what's the risk over the risk over reward here is the risk is dad gets bit the reward is is dad can watch cram while we're gone and you're still going to be nervous he's still going to be nervous and cram still probably will be if he with that so that's that's kind of like the the equation here is if Graham is showing signs of I don't like dad I'm uncomfortable with that and has a bite history
[SPEAKER_01]: My suggestion is to not try to match make that I don't think that that's that's going to be I don't think it's going to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that you're going to inevitably deal with.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gram just not liking dad because he's made that pretty clear.
[SPEAKER_01]: I that's not a hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know for sure, but the the the next step in the next question and the split in the fork in the road here is okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what if Gram is really suspicious of new people and once you're in you're in and you're never you're never going to get out that could that could be a possibility.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't I don't know for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he is, he is like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, so I have a dog walker.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have two dog walkers that walk him.
[SPEAKER_02]: My first dog walker.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she's four foot nothing.
[SPEAKER_02]: She does amazing with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a lot of sort of pieces.
[SPEAKER_02]: My second dog walker.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, because I wanted to be back up in case I've been having to my first one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It took her a hot minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: Same thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Graham was very suspicious of her.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Graham is just
[SPEAKER_02]: Initially, it's very suspicious of people.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now he loves her.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of those is he, I feel like you almost have to prove yourself to him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And once you're in, you're in and he's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the best dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, but it's, it's just very few people that he feels comfortable around and it's just
[SPEAKER_02]: He will literally bark and lunge at everybody unless we have him under, you know, on a leash under control and, you know, doing commands, but if he's not in a sit-stay or in a down, he's not being the best version of himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so how long is he known your dead and known dead?
[SPEAKER_02]: From the moment we got him, I'm dad, started coming over from day one.
[SPEAKER_01]: See, that would be like, my job is to be like the investigator here.
[SPEAKER_01]: What makes sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: What doesn't make sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: So that, that wouldn't make sense because two things is, Graham is known dad much longer than the two dog walkers he now loves.
[SPEAKER_01]: The two dog walkers are female and dad is dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would say that, and again, I would, I want that to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would hope that that would work because it would make everyone's life easier
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just being realistic that if Dad's known Graham ten times longer, but still has issues, I would say that that's probably not the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably not like, oh, well, he just needs to warm up.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's had double the amount of time to warm up to Dad and he won't versus the dog walkers.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would just say it could be in same thing with your husband your husband got bit too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's had an issue with males.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like that's just what from from the context you've told me from the last fifty minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's what I've gotten.
[SPEAKER_01]: So so you know just to keep that in mind just to be mindful of that that if it was one of those well he just needs time to warm up and then
[SPEAKER_01]: once he warms up who's gonna love you like your best friend it's like well i think if that was the case it would have already happened with that that i mean all of the ingredients for that actually happening are there and have been implemented and it still isn't there so i would just say it's probably not going to happen there there again there are ways of doing it because there's there's two different there's two different things here is if he is the type of dog that
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, it just seems like, why don't you tell me the is the benefit of having Graham good with dad because you want to or because you because you need to.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's because we want to.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, um, obviously we want dad coming over and hanging out and all that stuff, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: We know that grams too much of a dog for that to lock, so that's not even a thought in our minds.
[SPEAKER_02]: But just to come over and hang out, it's just hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a summer property at the Jersey Shore, and that's when the last time dad came and stayed with us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, we, it's a small house.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've, we had grandma on the leash the whole time inside the house and he was doing okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then we just went out for a walk.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I'm always the one to handle Graham out of my husband and I, um, I do all the training and I handle Graham really well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, um, my husband had my other dog and we just stopped at the park a few blocks down dogs are sniffing around and then all of a sudden grandma sees dad and just lunges at him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, didn't even just stare at him like he didn't fix a he just saw him and lunged and, um, it, you know, took a good thing I had Graham, but
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so it's just confusing because we were just literally walking fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: The three of us, my two dogs and then we stopped and then it was, you know, yeah, so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so from what you from from that, I would just say.
[SPEAKER_01]: going back to what you were saying about the the walking thing that that's not going to happen even if Graham like dad or was caught more caution say more comfortable dad but but then it's but then I heard you say like well it would be nice also to if like like when we have dad over like to me personally it would be more like again I'm always looking at risk over reward here so to me it's more like
[SPEAKER_01]: Could we just put gram away when dad's over and be done with it because that would make a hunt that would make the situation a hundred percent successful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have to know?
[SPEAKER_01]: But to me it would be let's say I have for an example here's what I'm thinking is let's say I have like my niece is over and they're let's say they're terrified of dogs terrified.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I have a hundred and I have a huge dog he's under fifty pounds he's massive so I could say hey guys I'm gonna get him out and I'm gonna have him on leash and he's gonna be fine and blah blah blah
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's like what's the what's the point here it's like I get him out and then the girls are freaking out and they're screaming and they're like oh my god I'm terrified he's so big I'm so scary I want to and my dogs not doing anything but it's like what what's what's to prove here
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, and I have to walk dog owners through this equation to say, well, it'd be really convenient if just Graham didn't want, he doesn't have to like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't have to be pet by dad, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't want on the lunge at that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that you could do that, but the problem is is the risk of keeping Graham around dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: is that he lunges and bites dad and it's like what is the point you know it's like there's no there's the risk over reward here is not worth it like there's a bad investment you know what I mean so to me like personally if you guys have if you have really good control over gram and you feel comfortable and confident and we can talk about the reactivity after because it's a kind of a separate thing but to me it's like when we have that over
[SPEAKER_01]: It'd be like if my dog didn't like my dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't, I wouldn't, could I, could I have them coexist?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a hundred thousand percent bet my life on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what I have to manage it the entire time just to make sure things don't happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's like, okay, dad, come over.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love to hang out spend time with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he comes over in the entire time.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're eagle eye in your dog to make sure he doesn't bite your dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what are we doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's just my dog owners approach and that's also my dog trainers approach of I could absolutely walk you through the process in which what you should do and dad's over.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze because at the end of the day, dad's not going to handle Graham.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we already know that Graham isn't going to all of a sudden turn a switch and go cuddle and dad's lap.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even if he did dad wouldn't like it because he's like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, you get to this point where you're like, personally, I would just say he's too big of a dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not like a shit suit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he might bite your dad, but you'll be all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, no, you know, he's a big dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for me, personally, again, if this was my own house,
[SPEAKER_01]: with my trained dogs and me as a seasoned veteran of a trainer, with tons of experience, I still would say, hey, my dog doesn't like your dad and I'm going to put him away when he come over, not risking it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's kind of what I've thought, especially after listening to a lot of your all of your podcasts and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just, and we do, we are able to, and that's kind of what we did at the shore, like I said, we have a small house.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did kind of a great rotate sort of thing at times when I wanted dad to just move freely and not stress because grandma's on the leash and I was you know trying to manage crime.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to see like with as far as dad went.
[SPEAKER_02]: If there was more that I could be doing to try because I you know it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just my husband and my father-in-law, they just my father-in-law's now scared, which I feel terrible about and I think my husband just really wants it to work out and I think I've kind of reiterated to him.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't know if it's going to be possible.
[SPEAKER_02]: That it's just a better bet to just let's put Graham away like you said and because I know how stressed out Graham is like he really stresses out around that Yeah, because he doesn't it sounds like he doesn't want to make a mistake.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like I don't I don't want to like he's conflicted like exactly Yeah, I mean it's odd because it was even his the ringtone of dad's phone
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was set Graham off.
[SPEAKER_02]: He would literally lose his mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what happened when dad was watching Graham or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so so he really could just be he just has zero desire for dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that, and again, this is just, I mean, it's why you hired me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, honestly, like the the the quicker you are okay with that realization, the quicker you're going to be happier and your dog's going to be happier, your dad's going to be happier.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again,
[SPEAKER_01]: I totally, totally, totally, totally understand and have tons of empathy towards the idea of somebody not understanding dog behavior and how it all works to just say, hey, just hire a trainer to make this work.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it doesn't sound silly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: No, like that's, you know, it's like your car's broken higher in mechanic, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like your computer's not working.
[SPEAKER_01]: Habit tech, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it makes total sense to say like fix it, but the ones you start really get into the realities of it and getting down to the granular pieces, the risk, the juice is not worth the squeeze here.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, because I always tell people, okay, here's what you're going to do when dad comes over.
[SPEAKER_01]: Grams are going to be in a place.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to be in a down.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to be in a stay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to have him on leash.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to make sure your dad doesn't look at him.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to make sure your dad doesn't walk by him.
[SPEAKER_01]: know why contact no set you know blah, blah, blah, it's like at the end of the day, it's like okay, we did it, but it's like you you need a glass of wine after your dad leaves because it was like you already mean it's like holy crap that was so much work or
[SPEAKER_01]: bring grand for a nice walk before dad comes over get all the things out and his body in his mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Put him in the crate with a bone when dad comes over and everybody wins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody yeah because because it even sounds like like you said like that's even a bigger incentive for you for grand to be like I don't like you said.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who knows what happened when dad was over dad could a
[SPEAKER_01]: Who knows dropped a drop the book on the floor yelled at a football game like who knows what the heck happened yeah, but it doesn't matter the point is now is this like this is where we're at it's different it's different circumstances if you said hey he's acting like this to my husband then it goes into
[SPEAKER_01]: serious behavior mod, serious management, serious obedience, muzzles, like all the things to try to make it work.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if it's something that doesn't need to happen, then the better option is to do the better option or the easier option here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of figured.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then about the other stuff, the
[SPEAKER_02]: aggression.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a better way for me to be able to prevent him from lunging or freaking out?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's done it with people that we know.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I could, if I'm stopping to talk to people or whatever, or like let's just say we're at, we're at the short, like we live in Pennsylvania.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's pretty rules so there's, we don't come across a lot of people or dogs, but we're at the short, it's like nonstop people, nonstop dogs.
[SPEAKER_02]: The behavior, so when we were seeing her, she was, you know, like, just fucking late at night, certainly the morning.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't want to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't want to, I want to be able to work with Graham.
[SPEAKER_02]: under normal circumstances.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to be walking him at three in the morning.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and we do really well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, it's just if I don't catch it in time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this something that I can work on better?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this something that this could be his just behavior?
[SPEAKER_02]: I've never had any dog who was this reactive.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the funny thing is, is that if I take him to the vet,
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he's had to TPLO surgeries.
[SPEAKER_02]: He has the most ridiculous allergies.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's had massive roaring air infections.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's literally had everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he's been my dumpster fire dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've spent countless amounts of money on him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but he's amazing at the vet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he is terrified and he's, he is a definitely flight dog when he's, um, anywhere outside of his
[SPEAKER_02]: territory if you will.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dogs can come up to him at the vet.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can do whatever you want to him at the vet and he's scared, crapless, but he's totally fine and everybody loves him.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if we're on walks, if we're in any area that he considers like his home, he's like, I'm a big dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I, I don't, I feel like we're managing it well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, um, he has a prom color.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he has the herm springer prom color.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um,
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't until I was dragged across the street and tore my labor and rotator cuff that I realized not all prompollars are the same.
[SPEAKER_02]: So from seeing some of your or seeing some of you two videos, I realized her spring was the way to go and it's made a huge difference.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do have a doctor, e-collar.
[SPEAKER_02]: that we've worked on, but because he's so good at recall, he's great on leash walking, like, I haven't been hugely focused on working with the e-color, although I think I might have to, because I think due to his, all of his ear infections, his hearing started to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I just wanted to see, like, I don't know if
[SPEAKER_02]: his commands just aren't strong enough because once he once he gets the point of fixating any commands that I say are out the window.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: As long as it's before he starts to fixate, he's he'll listen to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's engaging.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's great.
[SPEAKER_02]: But once he starts to fixate, he's yeah, I've lost him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the second part about that with the prom collar,
[SPEAKER_02]: He's good if I if I pop the problem caller like prior before he starts loading the moment he loads if I pop that caller Hill lunge in two seconds.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like an activation switch if I pop it while he's like I feel the tension he will lunge then it's like okay now I've given him the cue to go so Yeah, that's where I kind of feel like I'm stuck
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, so the prong collar has become an activator, which can happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically a conditioned response.
[SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes this happens if you correct the dog without a cue.
[SPEAKER_01]: So instead of saying leave it or focus to counter the dog's potential risk of reactivity.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of people will just, they see a dog we correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we don't really give them an option to do the right thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now the correction has become the cue and the correction is also an unfair correction because they're really getting corrected for looking.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like we actually want you to look and make a better decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not the only time that we only correct a dog if they react as if they're they're pretty serious about hurting another dog and they're pretty consistent with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when we would step in and just say, you can't even look, but I don't, I really don't think that that's the case here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, did you take my reactivity to neutral course?
[SPEAKER_02]: I have, I signed up for all of your course today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, great.
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason why I'm asking is because I talk a lot about the dismantlement.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the dismantlement essentially is as the dog starts to build, you're dismantling it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like talking somebody that's really angry upset mad anxious out of the state of mind they're in.
[SPEAKER_01]: But basically saying, hey, let's do this, let's think about this instead, essentially.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it comes with a lot of different exercises like the inside turn, the drawback, the outside turn, all the things to dismantle the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: The focus command, the engagement, there's a lot of different things in there that are, you know, it's kind of the secret weapon there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's just get, let's just get context here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say you're out with him on a walk.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see a dog up ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm assuming he starts to beat his ears perk up.
[SPEAKER_01]: He locks up because hey, there's a dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you, what do you, how do you do this?
[SPEAKER_02]: So yes, so his first biggest indication is his hair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Standing up so I will usually, so let's just say rather short, like it's ton of people type spaces, small streets,
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I usually, um, if there's space, I'll just walk over to the side.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, have a sit, um, and go to a down and let the other dog in person, um, walk bias and as long as he focuses on me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, if it's a big enough streets.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he's usually fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can get him to focus on me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell him to leave it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't pop his collar.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, if he's following my command, like if I say, leave it and he looks at me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I reward him and we keep walking.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um,
[SPEAKER_02]: The only time, like I said, if it's a narrow street and the dog's pretty close, or even if it's like, uh, we're walking by yard with a barking dog, which he absolutely hates any barking dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I can tell him to leave it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He'll look at me and refine.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like I said once he just sees the dog and starts to load and then I pop the call, if I leave, tell him to leave it and I pop the collar, he lunges.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um,
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, do you, do you do any physical dismantlement?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you do an inside turn?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you try to block it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you try to block them out at all?
[SPEAKER_02]: I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to do that sometimes on a narrow street, like a narrow space.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I, luckily I'm just able to control them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he usually comes back
[SPEAKER_02]: and becomes engaging pretty quickly.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, if it's, if he starts losing his mind, it's very hard to get him to do any sort of turns or moving or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he food motivated?
[SPEAKER_02]: He is, unless he's past that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so here's here's what I would say is I'll kind of break down like the the things that I do and and it okay so a couple things is so again I always tell people whenever you want your dog to stop something they need to you need to give them what you want if you want to tell them what they can't do you need to tell them what they can do
[SPEAKER_01]: right because obviously they've gotten to this place they're instinct so they're already doing the thing that they want to do they're like hey there's a dog this is what I feel like I need to do so they have to have a good leave it and this isn't a question this is just more of a torquable question that
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have a good leave it and the dog actually understands it fundamentally and you've worked on it fundamentally, which means we're not applying the leave it out when we see other dogs and that's the leave it to the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: The leave it is applied in taught at a fundamental level with food, toys, balls, treats, inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dog knows when you say leave it, they have to move away from what they're doing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So they fundamentally understand the behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then when you go out, then when you go out and you use the leave it that I understand it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just flipping a little bit, the behaviors that you worked with as you said with the prom collar not all behaviorists are created equally.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, nobody has created equal in any industry like you
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, no trainer, no behaviorist, but that is the majority of behaviorist is to avoid conflict at all costs because they're not trainers.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't know how to train a dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not what they do.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have their job is to diagnose what's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they get into a room with the dog and has reactivity or aggression.
[SPEAKER_01]: ninety percent of behaviorists do a gazette that's why I was like kind of laughing and it kind of sounded like you understood you know you started doing your research on behaviorists that's what I would say in my experience ninety percent of the clients that I've worked with deal with they come in they don't touch the dog they throw treats at the dog they're afraid of the dog typically because they're not they're not they don't they're not practitioners right at all like they actually are pretty goofy with dogs they're not like
[SPEAKER_01]: Typically, naturally, like gift did, if you will, with handling the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: They love dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: They went to school for a bunch of years to figure out what behaviors are and they're good.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have a good purpose, but their job is to prescribe medication, typically, and diagnose, not actually handle train, fix, and modify, typically.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's pretty much the ammo.
[SPEAKER_01]: They come in, they throw food in the ground, they give you prescription, and they tell you to just walk at times when you're never going to see dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: not realistic for ninety-nine percent of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: So to that point is when you're going through this process, we actually want to do the opposite.
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to really show the dog how to make better decisions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, there's a dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: So as hackles come up, he starts to get big bad and burly and what you do is
[SPEAKER_01]: a couple things is he has to know leave it so you can apply it so you know hey I want you to do this skill set you know it and then if that point he goes oh I know what you want I'm just not going to do it your your correction and your punishment like you said the the prong collar can be the activator so I would say and this is a question like when you correct him with the prong I'm assuming it only probably amps him up doesn't really excuse me do much is that correct
[SPEAKER_02]: That's correct.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has helped me handle him a lot better.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, when he dragged me, I had a pet store brand, big pet store brand, prom color, and that did nothing.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was literally dragging me across straight.
[SPEAKER_02]: So with the herms for him, I do have a much better handle of him when he does
[SPEAKER_02]: lunch or what he does lose his mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm grateful for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it gives you better handling where you can hang on and control them, but it doesn't it doesn't necessarily stop his unwanted behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the timing of that is important, as you know, and you, it sounds like you're doing this right, but I'll just go through it anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the moment that he sees the other dog, this is what I typically do, is I'll say, leave it, I'll correct, and I'll do an inside turn at the same time to disengage.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll walk out, I'll put the dog into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's, I'll just say this.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a couple different ways to go about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it comes back down to risk over reward, really.
[SPEAKER_01]: So meaning, if your goal is to walk by another dog without a reaction,
[SPEAKER_01]: that that could be a realistic goal for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, the risk because the size and the power of the dog might not be worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've learned this, my dog burly now, and if you've watched my stuff, you've seen him in no better.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has made me more relatable to my clients than ever before because he's a big intact reactive
[SPEAKER_01]: strong ass dog and and great I've done everything right you know what I mean like I've I've done all the things it's just his genetics which is why I got him anyway my point is this is I want to give you a couple examples because it's very similar to what you're dealing with and so when I'm out with him I have a couple I have three different options when I'm with him depending on the time I have the mood I'm in
[SPEAKER_01]: the other dog, the environment that I'm in, how much worm I have to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my objective, even this morning, for an example, I was out for a walk, he saw another dog that he knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: His job is to just go, holy shit, there's a person I need to go check it out, or a dog, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's this whole thing like he just wants to just go see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's his like that's his M.O.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did give me your ID please.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you're good like so we saw dog this morning boom same thing hackles chest ears Stimulated locked in I said I said leave it
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I did focus immediately after.
[SPEAKER_01]: Leave it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Focus.
[SPEAKER_01]: Boom.
[SPEAKER_01]: He looked at me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I paid him with food.
[SPEAKER_01]: Off we went.
[SPEAKER_01]: Done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's kind of this Swiss army knife that you have to have with a reactive dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the overall goal is to get the dog to a point where they don't react.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you have a dog that is reacting out of instinct, genetics, drives, past experiences, etc.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're not just taking a dog who's being a jerk, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's some dogs who are like screw you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do what I want.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's other dogs, my dog, your dog, who are like, I need to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't care if I die.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to protect you from this mini golden doodle, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, that's what they actually think, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Same thing with your father-in-law.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, they, like, there's nothing that you can do to make dude relax.
[SPEAKER_01]: They go, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can tell it's real, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So for me, if I said leave it and then focus and he didn't disengage, I have two more options that will work almost a hundred percent of the time, one of them a hundred percent of the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can either turn around and go home, which is what I suggest to all my dog walkers, my mom, my in-laws, our nanny, whoever's watching and walking the dogs, I tell them,
[SPEAKER_01]: If you see a dog go the other way because it's not worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care about my training.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care how good he can be with me because you're not me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do it again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Try it again, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The other option is is to do what you're doing, which is sit down, stay.
[SPEAKER_01]: working on dismantling basically taking his legs from him because if I can take if I can take my legs from my dog now he's just a big giant seal laying down right he's big he's powerful but he doesn't have his leverage so as so so those are like the three most realistic thing that anybody can do with when they're with their dog is
[SPEAKER_01]: You can work on, hey man, quit the shit, disengage, look at me instead.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reality is, the reason why I got into your behaviorist is, is because there's the reality of, because it's unrealistic sometimes for a dog to go, okay, you got food, that's cool, because what you're relying on is you're relying on motivation, and you're relying on the economics of dogs, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So the currency of dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: what ends up happening is is he goes oh you have food great I want that instead but then there's some dogs sounds like your dog and my dog where they go dude get your food out of here I don't give it to it like I'm right so then you go okay now what
[SPEAKER_01]: My whole economics is gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't pay you to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't care about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then that's where you rely on, okay, avoidance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go home.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, it's not the most, I mean, sometimes it is you, like, let's see you get like a young kid out with a harness and a flexi in a dog and you're like, yep, I'm going the other way.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're dogs dragging them down.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then there's the so you have a couple different options.
[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned the e-colour.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you used the remote collar for any of this build?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what e-colour do you have?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know which dog trait is.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dog trait is it.
[SPEAKER_01]: What color is it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it works for two e-colors.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I got one that's, um, for both my dogs and I don't, um, gosh, I don't even remember.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been so long since I've used it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I don't even remember what color it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's, there is my masking is because the e-colour specifically for reactivity is pretty revolutionary, uh, profound in, in many ways before situations like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for an example, you have a big strong powerful explosive dog as do I. So let's say I'm out with him and he pulls.
[SPEAKER_01]: Prong collar is going to go and it's going to it's going to give you more leverage than I mean it's better than harness is better than a flat collar, but once they extend the leash and try to pull you down like all the injuries that sound like you had from that something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're screwed, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the remote collar because it has a spectrum of let's say punitive measure starting off at nothing to a little bit of something and then going all the way up to holy shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: What the hell is this?
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate this.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the other advantage that you have here is using the remote collar to dismantle, deactivate, correct, and stop the build and potentially the reaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that isn't, that is an option for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a couple different ways to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you've taken my e-color course, it's all in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's the disruption of using the Pager.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have a dog-choree color that has a HPP, which is a high-performance Pager, that comes in a lot in the two ADC models, and in some of the larger models.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is a very intense vibration.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it's super helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just posted a video on this in my Instagram a couple of days ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: This woman had this giant, like, mallinwall pit bull mix, huge dog, super reactive, and she couldn't control the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, once he decided to go, it was dangerous.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, I haven't been able to ever walk past another dog without a reaction or without me freaking out.
[SPEAKER_01]: We use the vibration on the dog to eat collar.
[SPEAKER_01]: and she was in group class, which she was blown away by.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the e-collar kind of replaces, leave it, which is quit the shit, disengage, stop locking, stop loading, the prong collar with the e-collar just replaces that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a different function, it's different utility, it's different sensation, it's a different feeling, it's a whole different package.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the goal is is to disrupt what the dog is doing so they can make better decisions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in some cases, the goal is to say, don't try to eat this dog because there are dogs who are like, I don't care what food you have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care where toys you have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care how much I love you and you love me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to kill this dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes it is just complete suppression where we're like, don't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they go, oh, I want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to and you pass and they go up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's like, you made a good decision, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it may be an addict.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I want to, but I'm not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all that really matters here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you didn't do it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that that's your dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: From what you've said, I don't think he's a killer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's more fearful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Considering like the rallying and I don't, you know, I don't like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the way that he's acting towards your dad, his he's using all the avoidance he can to be like, don't get near me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think it is fear base.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of his issues are a confidence and fear base.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would start going down the route of shutting it down really early with your e-colour with a punitive correction.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can start with the page or depending on what e-colour you have.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just look up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Find your e-colour.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look on the back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at the model.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go on, chat, GPT, or Google.
[SPEAKER_01]: Type in, does the Dogtra X have the HPP?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you'll be able to feel like put it in your hand.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it's intense, okay, this could work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Use it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's not intense, then use your stimulation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you've had my e-color course, do you know that the whole process of using the remote collar is
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for you is huge has so much utility because you have a dog that's fearful, you have a dog that can react, you have a dog that can be suspicious, so on and so forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what you would do is you would use the remote colors, like I use it every day with my dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: This morning, Lakota, my Dutchie, she's the best dog ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: She goes out, because I have a call, I live in a call to sack.
[SPEAKER_01]: She goes out, she pees in a call to sack Burley.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the morning, I put my e-colour on them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I open the garage door.
[SPEAKER_01]: I tell them to stay because I got a check to make sure there's no other dogs walking my call to sack.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have my e-colour on and I let them out to go pee and then I'm kind of like putsing around the garage for a couple minutes getting my treat pouch and my poop bags and my leash just together.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have the e-colour on them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like just I'm just giving an example of literally I did this couple hours before I talked to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's part of my everyday thing that last night, perfect example.
[SPEAKER_01]: My dog is e-colour trained.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my point is, is once your dog is e-collar trained, dad comes into the house, dad comes into the home in New Jersey, whatever, and you only crap, go to your place, down, boom.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because you've done e-collar training, the dog knows that they listen to you with the e-collar becomes the invisible leash.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of people will say, my dog only listens on leash.
[SPEAKER_01]: That means two things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your dog only understands behaviors on leash because that's what you've taught them, which is common, or your dog only listens when they know that they can get in trouble for not listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is also common, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Very common.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, perfect example.
[SPEAKER_01]: My dog's Burley is E-Color trained last night.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in my backyard watering some plants.
[SPEAKER_01]: Skunk goes burling across my yard and he went, oh, and he was, I mean, he was, and I said, Burley down.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't have a Z-Color on mind you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, Burley down.
[SPEAKER_01]: He went into a down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Didn't have to correct him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Didn't have to punish him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just told him the down and he dropped.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank God.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would have sucked for him, but it was sucked more for us for the next two weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my point is is I was like, Dan, that felt really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, just knowing that your dog will listen to you because they know that they've been corrected.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that leash kind of becomes this, it's a real security, but becomes this false security.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people let their dogs off leash.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I post about it all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: They let their dogs off leash, thinking their dogs are going to listen because their dog listens on leash.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the difference between playing basketball and your backyard with your buddies versus going to play versus LeBron.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you don't, you actually don't know what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to get smoked, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So the E collar for you could be a game changer when you're deactivating the build instead of correcting him with the collar.
[SPEAKER_01]: You would, and your e-collar might have a boost feature.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it has a be on it, it does.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what you would do is you would say, leave it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you didn't, so you would go leave it on your conditioning level on a five, let's say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then what you would do is after that, you would correct with the boost if you didn't leave it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you would give him something to do, because here's the problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the secret.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dog is still right there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the thing that they are, so think about it from the context of the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: They see a dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: They go, holy shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: They get up.
[SPEAKER_01]: They perk up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hackles go up.
[SPEAKER_01]: You say, leave it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, holy shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: That sucked.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did I do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you have to give the dog something to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sit down, heal inside turn outside turn focus.
[SPEAKER_01]: So part of the equation is correcting the dog for making a bad decision or starting to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you don't have here's what I want you to do alternatively right after, you're going to fail.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like trying to make a recipe without eggs that calls for eggs.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, this didn't come out right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, because you missed a crucial part.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would do the the the leave it with the remote collar put it to a punitive level, which depends on the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say twenty is pretty punitive for most dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it goes up to a hundred and twenty-seven, so you have a lot more.
[SPEAKER_01]: But start working on deactivating the build with the remote collar.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also make sure that your skill sets that you're going to ask him to do, like the alternative of what I want you to do instead of look at this dog are really refined.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, he, oddly enough, he is pretty good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, same thing with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in our house, Pennsylvania, we don't have a fence.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if I let him out, I kind of looked to make sure there's no critters or whatever around the house.
[SPEAKER_02]: But later that one time, he had to use the restroom.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I took him out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I didn't see he caught wind of something and almost started to give Chase and I yelled at him to leave it and he stopped and came back.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like he does have
[SPEAKER_02]: some pretty decent understanding of his commands.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just making sure, I think that I catch him before he really starts to lose his mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I did pull up the E-Color that I have in the Dogtra, in the Latino two S. It says it's a high output dog about training E-Color.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I might be an older version.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's, um, so that's a two dog system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, let me just look it up really quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nineteen hundred.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, nineteen notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have one right here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hold up me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh
[SPEAKER_01]: This one says it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it says extreme performance, Pager.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it says it does.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you could use the Pager as a deactivator, especially for bigger dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're much more sensitive to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can say, leave it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, holy shit, what was that?
[SPEAKER_01]: You do an inside turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Focus, yes, good focus.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know so it's it's super it's super simple really you the the goal here is I mean that this is this is the equation right you're going to say leave it he goes nope there's a dog I'm not listening you page him
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, holy crap, what was that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know what that was.
[SPEAKER_01]: You do an inside turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, wow, what was that?
[SPEAKER_01]: The dog's kind of out of picture out of mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you say, hey, look at me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he looks at me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and he gets his favorite food.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you go, so then he'll go, oh, so the whole sequence is the art, the essence of dog training, especially for behavior, temperament.
[SPEAKER_01]: and a well-behaved dog is I want to be clear on what I want you to do and what's okay and what's appropriate.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also want to be very clear on what is not appropriate and what I don't want you to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the dog goes, oh, if I do this I get all this good stuff and attention and love and affection and food and treats and balls and toys.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then as soon as I start to freak out and try to act like I want to kill something,
[SPEAKER_01]: It sucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: You go, yeah, choose your poison buddy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like, that's kind of how, that's kind of how it goes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, uh, last two questions, my husband had, uh, the behavior has had recommended a gentle leader.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, when we were seeing her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and so my husband recommended maybe we should use it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's a good idea because he thinks that we can control his head and have him like turn away if he sees another dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just feel like the gentle leader.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't matter because if he sees it like if I don't catch his attention before he sees another dog he's going to lose his mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if gentle leader is going to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the general leader.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you know, think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: How gentle is your dog being with you?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I always put it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is your dog be in gentle?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then generally there's probably not going to be your, you got to meet them where they're at.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to meet him with a rat.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to meet him with a rat, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you want to tow a million pound boat and you're like, how about this small little thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, no, it's probably not going to work, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the right equipment.
[SPEAKER_01]: So general leaders are good for, you know, dogs who are super easy with direction, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, come over here, but it kind of gets
[SPEAKER_01]: Generators don't really give the dog an option to turn off the pressure sometimes, too, because it's like constantly on.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's on their nose, they hate it, they fight it.
[SPEAKER_01]: People ask me all the time why I don't use them, but they don't see them in my videos.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I only have a couple of days with dogs at the absolute most, unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just kind of how my business is set up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how I've always trained.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I should be able to get done exactly what you want done in my three day transformation program.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I've done for a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my point is this, I don't want to spend half our time together telling the dog they can't take this thing off their head.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's what they don't want to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like scratching at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just, I just use a normal collar.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no reason to use a generator over a prong collar.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you put them on paper, the prong, it's like the prong collar always has more benefits.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: Last question for you to have to end our call.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have looked at your transformational program and I have do you think it'll be beneficial to us to do that only because my concern is like I said, if I take Graham anywhere else outside of his property, he's like the most well behaved dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: He might not ever react if I would take him to your facility or do any sort of any further training.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think it would be beneficial for me to consider something like that or just keep working, try, you know, I'm doing what I'm doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: What are your thoughts?
[SPEAKER_01]: The three-day program at my house, or at my house at my facility, is definitely beneficial if you want to work on handling, you want to work on the e-color introduction, we'll throw ten dogs at them, all the things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you feel like if we amped up the dogs and really put some pressure on them, he'll react, then that would be perfect.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good for anybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if you just got a new puppy and you're like, I want to develop.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to build a better relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good program.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically me as an expert.
[SPEAKER_01]: You giving me your dog and in yourself and saying, hey, I want to get better.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter if your dog is reactive, aggressive, has a bite history.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have a puppy.
[SPEAKER_01]: My three day transformation program is exactly that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been doing it now for five years and every single week we get people in.
[SPEAKER_01]: We change their life with their dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dogs come in super reactive.
[SPEAKER_01]: They end in group class.
[SPEAKER_01]: just how it goes so regardless that happens like happens in seminars to dogs will come in and they will not react but we can still work on the reasons why your dog is reacting because it's a good chance you're doing all the things and and also we'll work on okay if your dog is not going to react let's just go over how we can dismantle it anyway and we can work on that
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, because I know also, I know a huge part of it is how I handle him and how I. Yeah, how I'm a better dog owner, you know, so.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like, you know, maybe it might help me as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, also, well, thank you so much for doing this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Appreciate you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good luck with everything.