Should You Always Sedate Pets For Radiographs?

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(upbeat music) Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Veterinary Roundtable, the podcast where we answer your veterinary related questions while having some fun along the way.

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If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to leave us a review on your podcast provider of choice and if you have any feedback to offer to improve the veterinary roundtable, let us know.

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We are really hammering home.

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- I think you can tell.

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- Wait for it.

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I have a magic bag baby.

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- Yeah.

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- I bet it is a magic bag.

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- That's how you're doing.

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- No one look.

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You can't look inside the magic bag.

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- It's an interesting thing.

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- I gotta find it.

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- Well the back's came, most I can't see it anyway.

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- I brought Thor's hammer.

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- Oh my gosh.

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- I thought it was thinking,"I didn't go here before you see it."- I thought it was gonna be like, if I don't look, is that like,- It's from one of those action figures.

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- Oh my gosh.

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- It looks like a pretzel.

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- Thor's hammer.

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- Isn't that what I said?

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- This is amazing.

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- It is from the wood.

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- I didn't know what I said.

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- Shoot over there.

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- Ticulous.

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- Ah!- I know, those reviews, let's hear more.

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- Is it a heavy?

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- Bring them, don't hammer it.

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Don't hammer the steam.

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- Okay, so duck ball.

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- It looks like a pretzel.

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- It's a little ball on a stone or a marshmallow.

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- Should I throw it and see if it comes back to me?

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- Oh, it's not a boomeray.

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- I wanna see how heavy it is.

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- I think he does not see the marble movies.

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Yes, he throws it in the morning.

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- Oh yeah, that's true.

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- It's true, I wanna see how heavy it is.

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- Oh God.

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- Is it a plastic?

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- Is it a lemur cream?

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- Wow.

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- Is he going?

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- No, he doesn't have any.

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- That would be great.

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- Sometimes there is no marble super-year-olds.

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- Oh, okay.

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All right, so here we're home, those reviews, duck ball, tell us where we're at in terms of number of reviews.

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- We didn't gain any on Apple from last time.

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- What the heck?

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- This is what I thought.

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I thought of after we had done the peanut butter commercial.

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- Yeah.

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- Devon needs to be layered, lathered, and peanut butter.

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She has to be laying on a ground with her scrubs, all, you know, not like naked or anything.

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I'm just saying like with her scrubs on, peanut butter on her arms and her face, she has to lay on the ground and then we release the dogs.

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- Oh, that's actually really neat too.

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- Yeah, it would be great.

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- It would be good, oh, she's not gonna get bit.

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- No, but before that, let's all just throw marshmallows out or so they stand and then put her on the ground.

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- Okay.

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- What if we just like cause a dog fight in front of her?

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- Okay, now listen.

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- We'll take dogs to our food aggressive.

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- Yeah, they're gonna be friendly dogs like Moose and Quill and-- Can I cover my face?

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- Miles and Whee.

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- Miles and Winnie and-- Just so we're gonna get along, right?

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- They have to face one.

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- Oh, no, look at you, a helmet.

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- We can get you a helmet.

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- That's so great.

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- Okay, so that's one of the ways to cover your peanut butter.

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- For what?

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- One of them can do, so we gotta get you a hard,- We gotta get you a hard,- I have the milk mile, oh,- 100, oh, then we have the milk mile.

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We have now devin covered in peanut butter.

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- And eating on the stupid food.

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- And yeah, eating the dog food.

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- I really like the dog food.

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Peanut butter and dog food.

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- No.

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- No, one of them.

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- It's a lot.

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- All on your body.

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(laughs)- But hey, we are at the 40's Spotify, where it 133,- 40 was two weeks ago, people, backwards 133 on Spotify, 40 on Apple.

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- Okay, yep.

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- I don't know what to go for.

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- 100, I think it's a 100 on Apple.

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- We don't, I don't think we really,- 'cause I mean, I'm not gonna spot a spot.

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- I know we have 60 followers, I know we can get 60 comments.

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- Yeah, we didn't get any.

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- And we didn't get any.

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- Zero out of it.

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- We gotta be better.

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- Well, devin had a good point.

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Maybe they love her too much and they don't wanna see her suffer.

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- Ooh, that's cool.

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- Because we clearly, these punishments are not nice.

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- Okay, you can point.

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- Devins, bam, bam, come into our rescue.

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- That's true, exactly, exactly.

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- It's like the Switties, but for Devin.

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- I don't know what to call it.

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- What do you call it?

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- The Devies.

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- The Devies.

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- Are the fortune cookies.

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- The fortune cookies.

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- The fortune cookies.

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- Oh, fortune cookies.

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- I like that, fortune cookies.

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- It's very nice.

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- Well, we'll see if people show up.

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Let's see if they do.

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- Yeah.

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- All right.

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Introduce yourself, ladies.

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- I'm Courtney.

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- I am a technician.

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And that's how I got.

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- We got an R-T-S-Boaring.

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- Warrr, wrarrr, wrarrr.

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- Hit the fail button.

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- I don't have it.

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- I don't have it.

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- You took away the fail button.

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- Why'd you take it away?

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I always use it.

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- He keeps us.

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- He's rough.

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Yeah.

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- Okay.

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- So sad.

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- Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark.

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- That's the fail.

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- There we go.

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- Okay, good job, Courtney.

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- He's gonna dig it out of the box.

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- Why are you gonna say?

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- I don't know anything, literally anything.

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- I braided my hair today.

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- Wow, it looks beautiful.

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- It looks like it's a treat to us.

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- There you go.

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- People don't know if they're not watching.

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- Oh, I did my own nails at home.

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I got a gel kit and I did my own nails.

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- Did it work?

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- Yeah.

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- Nice.

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- That's exciting.

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That will save you money.

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- Yeah.

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- That's cool.

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- The whole thing was like 30 bucks and a normal gel set is like 60.

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- And it's long.

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- No, it looked good.

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Okay, there's my fun thing.

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- It looked great.

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- Thanks.

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- For taking 30 minutes.

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- Tinks.

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- And they match your sweatshirt.

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- I'm Devon Fortune and I'm a assistant tech in training.

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- Nice.

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- Yes.

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- Oh, update everybody on your pharmacy.

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- Oh, yes.

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- It was my--- What?

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- It was what?

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- Wasn't it just form?

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- Yeah.

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- Not pharmacy, form.

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(laughs)- I don't know, is anybody here?

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- They can't hear that on here.

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- That must be the ghost.

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- There is something yelling.

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- Do it.

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- Oh! Get the tissues.

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(laughs)- No, you listeners.

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If you didn't watch the last one, watch it.

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- No, it's personal.

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- It's an update.

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Devon got really bothered by the fact that there have been cat ghosts.

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- There's a lot of tissues.

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- In this hospital.

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And so, you can say emotional.

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- Dr. King.

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- Dr. King.

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- Yeah, she got emotional.

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She cried.

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I'm just playing a cat meowing in the background and gave her tissues.

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That is actually fantastic.

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- It looked, is this supposed to be a cat?

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'Cause it looks like a wild animal.

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- It looks like an expensive cat.

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- You're just a protector ear.

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So you don't have--- Oh my gosh.

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Why do you have these?

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- These are for you.

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- Suns.

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- I know.

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I just had to, I had to buy those 'cause clearly I don't have--- That is fantastic.

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- There you go.

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Now you don't have to worry about hearing those scary sounds.

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- What?

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(laughs)- Oh, yes.

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My pharmacy final.

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I got my grade back, my proctored final, and I got a 99.

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- So you just missed the one that you told us?

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- I know, well I thought, I knew that I got one wrong and then I got one vitamin wrong, but they won't let me see what I, oh.

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Like got marked down on, so I don't really know when I got wrong.

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But I'm happy.

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- But I mean, I'm not that pretty cool.

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- But it's pretty good.

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- But it's pretty good.

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- It's always annoying when you're like when you're this one.

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- Yeah.

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- Good job, pharmacy.

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- Thanks.

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- I'm Ashland Duckwell, I'm a veterinarian.

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I'm just trying to make it through the day without coughing and it's not working.

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- I mean, you're doing pretty good.

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- You're doing great so far.

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- Okay, thanks.

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- I've got things for you too.

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- Just got a cold, residual cold.

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- Yes.

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- I'm really should take some.

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- I'm being one-up to all matchups.

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- I'm just a big fan.

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- Yes.

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- Maybe a fall.

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- Maybe a fall.

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- I'm not a magic-bide privileges refot.

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- Immune defense.

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- And by me.

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- And here's your other.

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- Hey, you know I love surprise gifts.

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- See, go, see.

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- Look at that.

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- Those are the best kind of gifts.

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- Okay, then you just got some cough drops, which is appropriate for why I said it was.

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- Yep.

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Excellent.

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- We're doing it.

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I'm here.

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- Okay, your cough matters.

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- It's worth the seat.

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- I get ear loss and a ghost.

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Duckwell gets cough drops.

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I can't wait to see.

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- It's not time for mine yet.

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- No, I just can't wait.

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- I just can't wait to see.

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- I'm Emily King, Dark Dragon Waking, and I was in charge of the magic bag today.

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- Yep.

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- And you're doing phenomenal so far.

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- She is.

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- Okay, awesome, sauce.

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She's doing amazing.

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- Is that supposed to be me now?

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- Yeah, I think so.

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- Again, for all those not watching and listening, Courtney is holding up a stuffed cat.

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- That does not look like a cat.

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- It looks like an alien and she's pushing the button.

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- Okay.

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Stop it.

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- I hope that I'm gonna have nightmares.

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- That is quite good.

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- That's quite good.

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- That helps for a reason.

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- That does look very scary.

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- Oh my god.

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- That sounds like a lot of other things.

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- All right, if you could replace the handshake, what quirky greeting would you invent?

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- Ooh, Courtney.

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- We'll get to our damage, whoever.

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- I don't have anything.

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- The hands nail.

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- Okay, what's the hands?

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- I love hand hug.

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- We started to face.

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- Hand hug.

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- I'll do the snow part.

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- Okay.

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- Wow.

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- Okay.

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Okay, now do mine.

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Handshake.

00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:14.399
- No.

00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:15.399
- No, I like that one.

00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:16.399
- Hand hug.

00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:17.399
- No, it has to be opposite hand.

00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:18.399
- Oh.

00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:19.399
- Oh my god.

00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:20.399
- Oh, you like how big?

00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:21.399
- Oh my gosh.

00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:23.399
Those are really dorky.

00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:25.399
Okay, nobody should do those.

00:08:25.399 --> 00:08:26.399
- Those watching.

00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:27.399
- Don't ever do those.

00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:28.399
- Am I talking loud?

00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:29.399
- Yes.

00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:31.399
Okay, wait, where did you come up with those?

00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:32.399
- Life.

00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:33.399
- Oh my god.

00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:34.399
- Those are actual real things.

00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.399
- Those are things people actually do.

00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:37.399
- Yeah, you've never done an hand hug?

00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:38.399
What would you do?

00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:39.399
- No.

00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:40.399
- Do you want to experience your first one with me?

00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:41.399
- No.

00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:42.399
- Why do I?

00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:43.399
- It'll change your life.

00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:47.399
- No, you have to hold it for 30 seconds to make yourself feel happier.

00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:49.399
- We can't sanitize our hands.

00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:51.399
- I'm not continuing to do any more.

00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:58.399
- Okay, listen, there is something about oxytocin being released when that's why people I can't really give high fives because of what we're going to say.

00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:00.399
- I was going to say you have to hold it for 45 seconds.

00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:01.399
- Yeah.

00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:06.399
- That's the feeling or the not drug.

00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:07.399
- And Dorphin?

00:09:07.399 --> 00:09:14.399
- Thank you or something that's released when you do that and so then that forms bonds and creates trust.

00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.399
- What's in fact of the week?

00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:19.399
- What's your worky thing?

00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:23.399
- Mine would be more like a poop lung.

00:09:23.399 --> 00:09:24.399
- A handshake, like a full one.

00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:25.399
- Oh, yeah, like that.

00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:26.399
Wow, not someone else.

00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:27.399
- Yeah, sure.

00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:28.399
- That was a mess.

00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:29.399
- Yeah, it would be like that.

00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:30.399
It would be like one of those.

00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:33.399
- Hey, welcome to "Past Out."- Yeah.

00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:35.399
- Oh my...

00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.399
- We are on one, too.

00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.399
- Could you speak to stupid ear most?

00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:44.399
- Yeah, good.

00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:45.399
- Okay.

00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:53.399
- If animals could talk, which would be the rudest, the giraffe, because it's always looking down on you?

00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:54.399
- Okay.

00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:56.399
- Somebody wrote these questions over.

00:09:56.399 --> 00:09:59.399
- No, I literally thought that as soon as I read that, I was like the giraffe.

00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:01.399
- That's because it's always like a downer.

00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:02.399
- I love the logic when it's out.

00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:03.399
- She's crying.

00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:04.399
- Well, my first one is basic.

00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:05.399
It's my tissue.

00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:06.399
- Yes.

00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:07.399
- What was the first one?

00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.399
- It was just a cat, because they're always like, you're so judgmental.

00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:17.399
- But then I looked it up, because I was just curious what other people had to say, and they said"Seagulls," because they're already rude.

00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:19.399
- Like, I'm like, "Seagulls?"- They still eat them.

00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:22.399
- They have no respect for anything.

00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:23.399
- Yes, they are.

00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:24.399
- At all.

00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:25.399
- They are, it's all about them.

00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:26.399
- I'm still a cat.

00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:27.399
- But that's how cats are, too.

00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:28.399
- Let's try them.

00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:30.399
- They're just trying to survive.

00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:31.399
- They can't fly wherever they want to be.

00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:32.399
- A couple years ago.

00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:33.399
- They can't go.

00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:34.399
- They can't go.

00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:36.399
- There was one leg at Seagull, and we just kept feeding a french fries.

00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:38.399
- And he was fighting the other ones for the french fries.

00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:39.399
He did pretty good.

00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:40.399
- He did.

00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:41.399
- He said, but he only had one leg.

00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:42.399
- What's your opinion?

00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:47.399
- I mean, I'm not really thinking like a lot of animals, I think, cat, though.

00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:48.399
- Yeah.

00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:51.399
- I said, I said, "Sloth."- Okay.

00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:53.399
- I don't know who it is.

00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:57.399
- Well, because they don't even have like,- They don't even have like,- Passing them by the movies.

00:10:57.399 --> 00:11:01.399
- I don't, it would take them like 70 years to even say something else.

00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:07.399
- Somebody like, you,(laughs) throwing up the middle finger would take 10 years.

00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:10.399
(laughs)- Who is?

00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:11.399
- Or the thumbs down just very slowly.

00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:12.399
- They're mad because they're worse.

00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:13.399
- They're mad because they're worse.

00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.399
- They're even faster than them, so I thought they'd be the root is.

00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:18.399
- It would keep me on the edge of my seat if they're going like this.

00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:20.399
You're like, "Is it gonna be thumbs up?"- It's gonna be thumbs down.

00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:21.399
- Oh, it's going down.

00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:22.399
It's going down.

00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.399
Oh!(laughs)- Oh my god.

00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:27.399
- Oh, interesting.

00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:28.399
- That's good stuff.

00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:30.399
- Good stuff, good stuff, good stuff.

00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:33.399
- That's our whole episode where we just ask each other questions.

00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:34.399
- Okay.

00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:37.399
- I'm all down, or I don't know, I'm for it.

00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:39.399
- I didn't get a present.

00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:40.399
- It's coming.

00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:41.399
You're gonna catch it.

00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:43.399
- You played with your kitty, you're in there.

00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.399
- All right, case collections.

00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:48.399
Let's hear what you guys have.

00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:51.399
- It's a vibrates.

00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:53.399
- Okay, court, you go first.

00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:54.399
- Okay, it was a vibrates.

00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:55.399
- It's a vibrates.

00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:59.399
(laughs)- Don't cry, you're giving it back.

00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:01.399
- That's a bit over here.

00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.399
- Okay, anyway, case collections.

00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:08.399
So we had an 11-year-old new-dored Labrador.

00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:11.399
He presented for not acting like himself.

00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:13.399
- Oh boy.

00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:15.399
Someone's got to take the batteries out of that.

00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:19.399
- Give me that cat, I'm gonna get some gaffa.

00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:21.399
- It's a date it.

00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:24.399
- He presented for not acting like himself.

00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.399
He was constantly pacing at home, yet lethargic.

00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:29.399
He was drinking a lot of water more than he usually does.

00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:35.399
He refused his breakfast as well as any kind of treat which is very unlike him because he's never missed a meal in his life.

00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:40.399
He did vomit once, but otherwise his stool is normal, everything like that.

00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.399
So we started with some work-up diagnostics.

00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:52.399
So first we did blood work that showed mild neutrophilia, azotemia, azotemia, and mild hyperglobulinemia.

00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.399
I'm not gonna sing that word.

00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:57.399
His USG was 1008.

00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:00.399
His chest are as we're unremarkable.

00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:05.399
We did do an abdominal ultrasound because at this point we were kind of just looking for anything.

00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:07.399
And that was pretty unremarkable.

00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:13.399
We found an incidental splinic mass, but that was not causing his symptoms that he presented for.

00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:20.399
And then he did have a temperature of 104.104.2, which is extremely high, not normal.

00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:25.399
And so we were kind of going through the list of what could possibly be going on.

00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:30.399
And one of the first things that comes to mind is a tick-borne disease or virus.

00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.399
But the owners did not want to do that at that time.

00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.399
So we did not do that PCR.

00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:39.399
And then on exam he was very, very weak.

00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:41.399
Couldn't hold a self-up for very long.

00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:43.399
His eyes were also sunken in.

00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:48.399
So after discussing everything with the owner, and like I said, they didn't want to do the tick-borne panel.

00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:52.399
We decided to just treat for a fever of unknown origin.

00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:55.399
So what that included was hospitalization on IV fluids.

00:13:55.399 --> 00:14:00.399
We did a IV antibiotic, which is unison, and then we gave him serenia.

00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:03.399
We did multiple doses of each medication.

00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:07.399
And we kind of just continued to check his temp, make sure it was going down.

00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:10.399
The first day he was here, I don't think it really moved much.

00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:15.399
I think it went actually up a little bit and then started to drop, but it was never normal that day.

00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:22.399
And then the next day it did start to drop a little bit more and kind of go into the normal range.

00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:32.399
But he was still, I think he normally runs high, but I think when he left it was in like the 102.3 or 4 range, which is technically normal, but it's high and normal.

00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:35.399
So like I said, after he was here on fluids, he started to improve.

00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:37.399
He kind of perked up a little bit.

00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:39.399
He started eating for us.

00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:43.399
And so therefore he was eating, so we felt comfortable sending him home on oral meds.

00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.399
And so the owner stick him home.

00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:48.399
Like I said, he got better at home progressively.

00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:52.399
He started eating, acting normal, playing with his toys, things like that.

00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:56.399
So I think he was here for almost a full two days.

00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:57.399
Sorry, yeah, he was here for two days.

00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:00.399
He went home on the second day towards the end of the day.

00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:05.399
So he went home on December 28th and he actually came back on January 1st for a splenectomy.

00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:08.399
Do that incidental splenic mass that we found.

00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:09.399
And now he's doing fantastic.

00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:14.399
Which came back as a negative, well, not negative, sorry, but nine hematoma on the splenectomy.

00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:19.399
So with those, it unfortunately is 50/50, but they still all have the risk of rupturing.

00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:23.399
So owners are very proactive, which I agree, because it was pretty big.

00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:24.399
Yeah.

00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:26.399
And we took it out when he felt better.

00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:29.399
But the biggest thing with him was fever of unknown origin.

00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.399
It could be really anything.

00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:42.399
And so I did discuss with the owners, like going down that rabbit hole diagnostics, which is not wrong, but for him, there was no history that would lead me, towards doing one test over the other.

00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:52.399
And so we just kind of agreed to focus the finance and just commitment of treatment or two treatment to get him feeling better as opposed to knowing the why.

00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:57.399
And because he was responding, that was also a good sign of what we were doing was working.

00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:02.399
So if it wasn't working, then yeah, we would go back to that discussion of diagnostics.

00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.399
But he's one of our frequent flyers.

00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:10.399
And when he came in that day, I actually went and picked him up, because his owner is right at town.

00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:13.399
And he wouldn't even get out of my car, which is very weird for him.

00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.399
And like Dr. Duffall walked back to treatment and didn't even recognize him.

00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:17.399
That's how dumpy he was.

00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:18.399
Yeah, he didn't look like himself.

00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:19.399
Yeah, he felt bad.

00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:20.399
But he's all better now.

00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:21.399
He's great.

00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:25.399
So treatment is also a way, what am I looking for?

00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:26.399
Like a diagnosing?

00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:27.399
Yes.

00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:30.399
Yeah, but yeah, that's kind of how we approached it.

00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:32.399
Yeah, I think he's all better.

00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:33.399
That's awesome.

00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:34.399
That's awesome.

00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:35.399
I think there are so many instances.

00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:39.399
I talked about it before too, where like you're working up something else and you find something else.

00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:42.399
And it's like kind of like a blessing in disguise.

00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:43.399
I agree.

00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:53.399
And you can actually the more pressing problem is the secondary thing that you find just because the dog or cat came in for something else incidental.

00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:54.399
I agree.

00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:55.399
And so it's pretty cool.

00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:56.399
Yeah.

00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.399
I feel like explained that happens a lot with spawning masks.

00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:00.399
Yeah.

00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:04.400
It's not a lot, but I mean, unless they're ruptured, you don't really, or unless they're about to rupture, you don't really find them.

00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:05.400
Yeah.

00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:07.400
Like there's no reason to just do an all-in-all for fun.

00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:08.400
Right.

00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:13.400
So, I think, yeah, so I'm really happy because it was, I think it was six centimeters or six millimeters, something like that.

00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:14.400
It would have been six centimeters.

00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:15.400
Yeah.

00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:16.400
Yeah.

00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:22.400
And I think that, yeah, I mean, it's just fascinating how often that happens.

00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:30.400
And, you know, to Duck Ball's point, you don't know when you're looking on ultrasound because hematomas and hemageostarcomas can be destructive in nature.

00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:34.400
So, you don't know which one it is, but they're what we call ticking time bombs.

00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:36.400
So, eventually, it's going to cause a problem.

00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:37.400
Yeah.

00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:46.400
So, it's much better to be proactive by the animals in a good place, physically, to be able to do surgery, remove the problem, and then they can move on about their, because they can live without their spleen.

00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:47.400
Yeah.

00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:48.400
Yeah.

00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:49.400
It's animal healthy enough to take it out.

00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:50.400
So, it's not a problem.

00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:52.400
And then you don't have to just sit there and wait for something bad.

00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:54.400
I mean, something bad might happen.

00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:55.400
Yeah.

00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:56.400
Yeah.

00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:57.400
Yeah.

00:17:57.400 --> 00:17:58.400
It's awesome.

00:17:58.400 --> 00:17:59.400
Okay.

00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:00.400
I can go.

00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:01.400
Yeah, go for it.

00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:02.400
Okay.

00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:04.400
So, this is my cat.

00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:12.400
He is a six-year-old domestic short hair, and he's kind of had chronic reverse sneezing for most of his life.

00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:16.400
So, it started in 2020, December of 2020.

00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:22.400
So, three years ago, he just started reverse sneezing out of nowhere.

00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:28.400
I brought him in, and then we did a round of doxycycline and started him on Lyceum Powder.

00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:40.400
And then he improved on the doxycycline, and he lasted like a few months with it out of his system, but then his reverse sneezing came back, summer of 2021.

00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:42.400
So, I brought him back in.

00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:48.400
We did another round of doxy, and then recommended a sedated oral exam to look for polyps.

00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:53.400
So, he, same thing with the doxy, he improved last a little while.

00:18:53.400 --> 00:19:00.400
He brought him back in. We did, we ended up doing a core, so a dental procedure, and then just looked for polyps there, and we did not find any.

00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:06.400
So, from there, I'm kind of a crazy cat mom, and I want to do everything.

00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:14.400
So, no polyps. So, we went forward with thoracic radiographs to look for asthma or any changes, no changes, no asthma.

00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:19.400
So, I did a upper respiratory PCR fan on him, and that all came back negative.

00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:20.400
Okay.

00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:27.400
So, after trying so many different things, because I just really, it wasn't affecting his quality of life at all, that it was bothering me.

00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:31.400
And he, like, sound congested, so I just wanted to make sure it was fine.

00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.400
But we started him on cyclovance.

00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:39.400
He's probably been on it for like a year now. He's doing wonderful.

00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:48.400
Like, I gave it to him consistently for probably a month, and then I slowly weaned him off of it, and now I only have to give it maybe once a month.

00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:54.400
Like, if he starts flaring up and reversing, he's saying I'll give it a couple doses in a row, but...

00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:56.400
So, you think his allergy related to him?

00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:57.400
Yes.

00:19:57.400 --> 00:19:58.400
Yeah.

00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.400
So, rhinitis, like, just secondary to allergies.

00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:01.400
Yeah.

00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:02.400
Fascinating.

00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.400
So, my allergy kiddo, little kitty.

00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:05.400
Oh my gosh.

00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:07.400
So, I'm glad that we finally figured it out.

00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:09.400
Well, you know, and what you do is rule out all those other things.

00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:10.400
I know.

00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:11.400
I always make sure you're better though.

00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:12.400
Oh my gosh.

00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:14.400
I know that there's not something more serious going on.

00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:15.400
Yeah, for sure.

00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:16.400
That's cool.

00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:17.400
Yeah.

00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:18.400
Yeah, it's just like a cycle of ants.

00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:19.400
Probably once a month.

00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:20.400
Oh, okay.

00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:21.400
So, not very often.

00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:22.400
Yeah.

00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:23.400
Yeah.

00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:24.400
Mm-hm.

00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:25.400
Okay.

00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:31.400
And it doesn't seem to flare up, like, during certain seasons, because the first time I brought him in for it was December, and then, like, it was the same thing in the summer.

00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:32.400
So, it's not like only bad during spring or fall.

00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:33.400
Right.

00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:34.400
It's just, kind of...

00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:35.400
So, it's interesting.

00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:36.400
Yeah.

00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:37.400
Yeah.

00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:38.400
Maybe it's something in the house.

00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:39.400
I know.

00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:41.400
Maybe he has a allergic to your other cat.

00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:42.400
Maybe.

00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:43.400
Maybe he's allergic to me.

00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:44.400
Good-being.

00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:45.400
Too bad.

00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:46.400
I'm just thinking of what to do.

00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:47.400
Exactly.

00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:48.400
Got to go back together.

00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:49.400
That's too bad.

00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:50.400
Walter?

00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:51.400
Walter?

00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:52.400
Yes.

00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:53.400
Oh, my gosh.

00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:54.400
We should have a sneezing.

00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:55.400
Yeah, a whisper sneezing.

00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:56.400
I was doing great on cycle of ants.

00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:57.400
That's so good.

00:20:57.400 --> 00:20:58.400
Yes.

00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.400
It's good, because some cats don't do as good, so...

00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:01.400
Yeah.

00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:02.400
And I only have to...

00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.400
I was telling them, I only have to give it, like, once a month now.

00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:05.400
That's really good.

00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:06.400
Mm-hm.

00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:07.400
Oh.

00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:08.400
See, that's a happy story when you go to a disease.

00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:09.400
Yeah.

00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:12.400
Because I've had a couple of kiddos that just...

00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:13.400
It's the infection.

00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.400
It's the secondary infections I get, because it's just really annoying.

00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:18.400
Yeah.

00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:19.400
You do it in a wonderful...

00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:20.400
A lot third.

00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:21.400
Okay.

00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:22.400
I will go next.

00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:27.400
I was going to give everybody an update on the cat that I spoke about.

00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:31.400
I think last podcast where the cat had...

00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:34.400
It was a young cat that had a plural fusion.

00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:37.400
And by that, we mean free fluid in this chest.

00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:41.400
And so that cat, unfortunately, succumbed to the disease because he just...

00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.400
He can't keep tapping the cat's chest to provide relief.

00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:45.400
And so...

00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:53.400
And at that time, the owners didn't have the means to continue with the treatment or diagnostic process.

00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:54.400
Mm-hm.

00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:56.400
So we ended up euthanizing him.

00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:08.400
But as we were talking about that case, Courtney brought up the fact that we've had a handful of cats in the clinic, because we assumed that cat probably had FIP to the most common differential in a seven-month-old cat, with plural fusion.

00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:12.400
So then we were talking about treatment options for cats with FIP.

00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:18.400
And I think on the last podcast, we mentioned the Facebook group, the FIP warriors, the Facebook group.

00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:19.400
And then you start...

00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:21.400
You mentioned that you have a cat, right?

00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:22.400
Somebody has a cat...

00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:23.400
Or you saw on social media.

00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:24.400
I saw on social media.

00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:25.400
Social media.

00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:26.400
Yeah.

00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:28.400
There was a cat or a lady, so...

00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:31.400
Her cat, I think it's like between six and eight months old.

00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:33.400
And he was diagnosed with FIP.

00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:37.400
And they did all the conservative treatment, everything just to make him feel better.

00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:43.400
And the vet she was going to at the time was just like, "Hey, there's really nothing more we can do." Which is... I mean, that's usually the case with FIP.

00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:47.400
You do as much as you can and keep the animal comfortable and whatever.

00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.400
So they did that for a long time in the mom.

00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.400
Like, I mean, this cat was just like lateral. He wasn't doing anything.

00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.400
He wasn't eating. He looked horrible.

00:22:55.400 --> 00:23:08.400
And they were like, "Okay, you're eventually probably gonna euthanize, because the disease is just gonna get to him." And this lady was like, "Nope. I'm not doing that to my cat." So she went and she did her research. She did find the FIP warrior's Facebook page.

00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:13.400
And she got the... There's a drug I think that they talk about on there.

00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:17.400
She ended up getting a dose of it. I think she gave a few doses maybe.

00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:19.400
And her cat is completely healthy.

00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:23.400
And he no longer has FIP. I mean, hell, this blood works normal. He's eating again. He's playful.

00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:26.400
He's acting like a kitten. So I thought that was really cool.

00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:27.400
Yeah.

00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:28.400
I could...

00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:32.400
One of our doctors also, the clinic is used it for two kittens that have FIP.

00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:35.400
This drug doesn't have a name. It's like letters and numbers.

00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:36.400
Yeah.

00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:39.400
I don't know what it is off the top of my head. But it's like... I don't know.

00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:41.400
Like IG53.

00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:43.400
It's something like that, basically. It doesn't have a name.

00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:44.400
Yeah.

00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.400
But it also isn't sold in the United States, right?

00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:50.400
Well, I literally don't even know where people get it.

00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:55.400
So the Facebook page, the FIP warriors can get a hold of it.

00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:59.400
And so then that's why those are the people that are helping folks with cats on FIP.

00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:04.400
But we were in our doctor's meeting and we were talking about Rindisavir, which is used in people for coronavirus.

00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:08.400
And there are some consultants that are using that now for FIP.

00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:13.400
Because now that it's FDA-proved, now we could use it off-label and animals.

00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:18.400
So there are some clinicians that are pulling that because it now...

00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.400
Because the other product is not FDA-proved.

00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:23.400
And so it's hard to get a hold of.

00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.400
Whereas this one now that it's FDA-proved, if you can...

00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:31.400
If your distributor can get a hold of it then potentially that could be a product that could be used at FIP.

00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:33.400
Are we seeing improvement?

00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:35.400
Is there more success with the treatment?

00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:36.400
I don't think it's...

00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:39.400
I think it's not much brand new, like from the standpoint of...

00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:42.400
Just, you know, it's just because it was on emergency use only for people.

00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:43.400
Yeah, okay.

00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:44.400
So we couldn't get a hold of it.

00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:45.400
Right.

00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:51.400
And so then once it's FDA-proved, now I think if you can get it through your distributor, then you could use it off-label.

00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:53.400
I'd be interested to see how it works.

00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:57.400
Yeah, so VIN I think had information on the dosing and they were talking about it on VIN.

00:24:57.400 --> 00:24:59.400
So that's why we were talking about it on VIN.

00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:03.400
Still a risk to doing either one, but honestly it's better than the alternative that...

00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:05.400
Unfortunately, these kiddies don't really...

00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:06.400
It doesn't end well.

00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:07.400
Well, you have no other...

00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:08.400
I mean, there's...

00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:09.400
Right, that's what I'm talking about.

00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:10.400
Yeah, you can do anything.

00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:11.400
Do what you can.

00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:12.400
Yeah.

00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:13.400
So...

00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:14.400
I do have a case.

00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.400
I was going to talk about a dog named Charlie.

00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:19.400
She's a two-year-old lab mix.

00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:24.400
And I saw her a couple weeks ago for hair loss.

00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:31.400
Just essentially just diffuse alopecia on her limbs, her belly, all four limbs.

00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:35.400
And she had had an episode of this back in the summer.

00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:41.400
And saw a different doctor here and was worked out for allergies and ended up responding.

00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:42.400
They tried apical.

00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:43.400
She didn't tolerate it.

00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:44.400
G-I-Y's.

00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.400
And so then they switched to cytopoint.

00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:49.400
And it had been sometimes through that process.

00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.400
And so then she got the cytopoint, her hair was coming back.

00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.400
She wasn't like overtly puritic or even licking a lot or anything though.

00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:02.400
And so she had responded to the cytopoint and then kind of went on her way.

00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:05.400
So then it started happening again just two weeks ago.

00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:11.400
And again, nothing in our history that's like allergies is screaming allergies.

00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:12.400
She's on prevention.

00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.400
She's on some paracetriote each month.

00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:18.400
So that helps minimize my concern, prepare sites and things like that.

00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:24.400
So the pattern of it is very interesting because truly her hair is flaking off.

00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:25.400
But there's no redness.

00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:27.400
There's not scaling.

00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:30.400
There's not like pimple type bumps anywhere.

00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:32.400
Again, she's not overly itchy or anything.

00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:43.400
So it looked a lot like maybe a follicular dysplasia, which is like an umbrella term for these different types of diseases or dysplasia.

00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:53.400
The hair follicle or the skin of the hair or the gosh, the life cycle of the hair, if you will, things like that.

00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:56.400
So that I have that on my list and then hormonal.

00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:04.400
So we checked her labs for thyroid or maybe cushings type changes on her blood work and everything was normal.

00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:09.400
I still can't rule out thyroid, I guess, because we didn't do the full detailed thyroid panel.

00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:13.400
But anyway, that's still on my list too.

00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:22.400
So we ended up just jumping straight to biopsies because moms in the medical field and honestly that's our best quickest way to start to get a diagnosis.

00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.400
So we just performed those on Monday.

00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:30.400
I got samples and kept the hair so that the pathologist could look at it.

00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:34.400
So to be determined on what's going on.

00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:47.400
Yeah, it's, I usually think a lot of times when it's just like a cosmetic thing mostly and the dog's not super uncomfortable, we may kind of jump along to different therapeutics or supplements or supportive care first.

00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:51.400
But I think I'm excited because we're jumping right to the biopsies.

00:27:51.400 --> 00:28:00.400
The owner said she did try melatonin but it was like for like a week and she was like, "You know what, it's great. Let's just..." Yeah, well she, she did come in being on melatonin since the last episode.

00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:04.400
Oh, that's a good idea.

00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:07.400
And she was also on Benadro for reverse sneezing but that was it.

00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:10.400
So she's been on melatonin for a hot minute.

00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:12.400
Yeah, I'm doing something your hair is still falling out.

00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:13.400
Interesting.

00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:16.400
That'll be fun to hear what the dramatic histopathologist said.

00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:18.400
I hope we get like a direct answer when we have to go.

00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:20.400
We stand at a dentist.

00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:21.400
So the texas.

00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:25.400
Yeah, if you're out there and you're sending in samples, send them to Texas.

00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:26.400
Yes, they're great.

00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.400
Yeah, they're awesome.

00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:29.400
Yes, I sent pictures too.

00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:30.400
We'll see.

00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:31.400
Okay, those are great cases.

00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:32.400
Good case it.

00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:34.400
Speaking of great cases.

00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:35.400
You gotta get out, my.

00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:36.400
Oh my.

00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:37.400
Oh my.

00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:38.400
Oh my.

00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:39.400
Oh my.

00:28:39.400 --> 00:28:40.400
Your bag is giving birth.

00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.400
Oh, that's Courtney's home.

00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:43.400
Put it on.

00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:45.400
You're all cat.

00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:46.400
Courtney, you're.

00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:49.400
You want to give a mother hand.

00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:50.400
There's a bottle.

00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:53.400
Courtney, your case is King case.

00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:54.400
Really?

00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:55.400
Oh, there you go.

00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:56.400
You're.

00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:57.400
You're.

00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:58.400
You're.

00:28:58.400 --> 00:28:59.400
You're.

00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:00.400
You're.

00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:01.400
You're.

00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:02.400
Is this what you're going to have?

00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:03.400
What is happening?

00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:04.400
She's not even.

00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:05.400
We have a fake.

00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:06.400
That is just what the.

00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:07.400
You can definitely use it as a.

00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:08.400
A white helmet.

00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:09.400
Sure.

00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:10.400
Why not?

00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:11.400
We can go into wall.

00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:12.400
Oh, Jay.

00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:13.400
Oh, when.

00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:14.400
That has what be presented.

00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:15.400
Catcher the rudist.

00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:16.400
Oh, yeah, but I'm.

00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:17.400
I'm.

00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:18.400
I'm.

00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:19.400
Gave two little rolls like some.

00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:20.400
Toys to play with.

00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:21.400
And they're just like.

00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:22.400
Gosh.

00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:23.400
He wants your.

00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:25.400
Where are them with your helmet?

00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:26.400
That would keep your helmet on.

00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:27.400
And then you're.

00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:28.400
And your.

00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:29.400
Your ghost cat.

00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:30.400
Okay.

00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:31.400
Here we go.

00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:32.400
Let's move on.

00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:33.400
This is the girls in school.

00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:34.400
Okay.

00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:35.400
Go ahead, duck wall.

00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:36.400
All right.

00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:37.400
Hi, yeah.

00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:40.400
I'm a third year vet student at the University of Glasgow, which is amazing in Scotland.

00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:41.400
Oh, my gosh.

00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:42.400
I'm so jealous.

00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:46.400
I am from New Jersey back in the States and am here for a school.

00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:47.400
Why not travel?

00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:49.400
Why get my dream degree?

00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:50.400
It's genius.

00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:51.400
So amazing.

00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:54.759
coming to your podcast and following you on TikTok since I started vet school.

00:29:54.759 --> 00:30:01.539
I love your podcast so much and I can relate them to my classes which has been helping me understand the content better.

00:30:01.539 --> 00:30:04.839
Y'all make me so excited for this career and I'm so grateful for your podcast.

00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:06.619
So I have a question for the group.

00:30:06.619 --> 00:30:11.700
In the UK you have to in all caps, today any animal for radio graphs.

00:30:11.700 --> 00:30:20.259
Does not matter if it's an emergency or the age, you have to do it as humans are not allowed to be within two meters of the primary x-ray beam.

00:30:20.259 --> 00:30:23.980
Meaning patients are held into position with tape and sandbags.

00:30:23.980 --> 00:30:26.240
My question is, what is your opinion on this?

00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:46.980
How would you feel about sedating or putting under GA any and all patients that need a radio graph at Michelle?

00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:48.980
So I was thinking about this question.

00:30:48.980 --> 00:30:53.500
I was like, oh, back in the day.

00:30:53.500 --> 00:30:56.299
So digital x-rays are new, right?

00:30:56.299 --> 00:30:59.480
And new in terms of newer years.

00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:05.799
So when I was in school, they definitely sedated every single patient for x-rays.

00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:07.799
And that was the protocol.

00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:08.799
Everything had to be sedated.

00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:11.119
Actually they did it for me too and I was in school and I think about it.

00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:21.759
And I don't know if part of it was, I think there's lots of reasons why people do it or why that's the recommendation which would include things like better positioning, fewer x-rays.

00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:25.359
And so then fewer people exposed to x-rays are probably the biggest things.

00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:26.359
Yeah.

00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:27.359
Oh, I think that's hand-staff.

00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:28.359
That's a good question.

00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:29.359
That's stressful for the time.

00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:39.480
And then when you're taking, and the fewer the number of x-rays you have to take to get it correct, was very advantageous when we had to use film.

00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:43.640
So back in the day, we had to use film and you had to send the film through a processor.

00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:45.640
And if you had to do that 15 times.

00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:47.200
Yeah, that had a lot.

00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:49.480
It was a lot of freaking film.

00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:55.480
So they're like, get your animal positioned correctly and so the only way to do that is to have the patients.

00:31:55.480 --> 00:32:02.839
So I think when I was in school, I think the biggest thing is, well, one is also good for learning.

00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:11.960
I should say that with when you're in school for the students just on where to call me, where to how to position them, things like that is not having a moving animal.

00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:12.960
Yeah.

00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:18.359
I think that you need something like me.

00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:19.759
Sure, just waiting for you to call.

00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:25.200
A little bit of mineral water with a twist of lime that's carbonated that might tickle your throat.

00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:27.200
So a twist of lime.

00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:30.519
Does anybody else need anything?

00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:31.519
Pop-o-chico.

00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:35.000
Do you need a bottle?

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:36.000
It's a little bit of coffee.

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.000
No, I have no idea.

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:38.559
I've never bought them, but they just caught my eye.

00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:40.559
I was like, I wonder if this would help.

00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:41.559
This is twist.

00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:42.559
Do you have a bottle of butter?

00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:43.559
Someone got some sharp teeth.

00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:44.559
No, we'll know.

00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:45.559
Someone help her.

00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:46.559
She's coughing.

00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:47.559
Okay.

00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:49.279
I don't think it's twist off.

00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:52.920
I think coming to the real world, it was like, it's this twist of lime.

00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:53.920
Oh my gosh.

00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:56.079
Some of these animals are crazy.

00:32:56.079 --> 00:33:00.880
And of course, our lovely technicians are the ones who are positioning them and doing the x-rays.

00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:07.039
So it's like, I think, I mean, I'm thankful that they're great to know like the level of stress, right?

00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:08.039
Right.

00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:09.960
The dog, it's too much or it's not safe for anyone.

00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:12.480
They'll call it and call us and say, we need drugs.

00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:14.839
Like, we need something to calm them.

00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:19.559
So like, luckily in here in the United States, we don't have like, so we don't have that role.

00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:20.559
So independent animal.

00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:27.599
And I don't think it's practical in the everyday sense because of the added cost.

00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:29.559
Added cost was going to be the thing that I said to you.

00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:30.960
Yeah, that you can't do that to every owner.

00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:35.359
No, especially if the animal, like, we have some great patients that will not care at all.

00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:37.000
Taking extras by myself on an animal.

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:38.000
Yeah.

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:39.000
Yeah.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:40.000
So it's doable without it.

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:41.799
And so then it's like, why are you taking x-rays?

00:33:41.799 --> 00:33:42.799
What's the health concern?

00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:43.799
Restoring?

00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:44.799
What is their age?

00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:45.799
PPE.

00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:50.119
You know, we're still wearing personal protective equipment?

00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:51.119
Yes.

00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:52.559
But that is correct, yeah.

00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:54.720
Yes, yeah, no, you absolutely do.

00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.960
But I still think the safest thing is to not be.

00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:57.960
Right.

00:33:57.960 --> 00:33:58.960
Not be there.

00:33:58.960 --> 00:33:59.960
Not be there.

00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:00.960
Yeah.

00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:03.160
When we have sedated patients, we don't even leave the room.

00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:04.160
We're still in the room.

00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:05.160
Yeah.

00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:06.160
Taking the extras.

00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:07.160
Oh, to show that I think.

00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:08.159
To be away from them.

00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:09.159
Yeah.

00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:10.159
I see.

00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:11.480
Which I guess, I mean, for two seconds, it's fine.

00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:14.639
But I mean, you walk around the door, push the button.

00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:15.639
Yeah.

00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:22.880
I mean, you know, so you tape the patient in and then you walk around the door, push the button, walk back in, and then, you know, get the next film.

00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:23.880
Yeah.

00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:25.199
But it used to take so much longer.

00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:30.960
I mean, there have to be patients that, like, it's not safe for them to go under sedation or GA.

00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.119
I think at that point, doesn't the extras probably earn as important maybe?

00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:35.119
Yeah.

00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:37.920
I think it's just, yeah, it's a case dependent.

00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:39.880
I don't think it's a bad role to have.

00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:50.000
I just don't think when you, especially when you come back to New Jersey and into the States, you're going to, I mean, depending on your client, tell, probably realize it's you won't have to do that.

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:51.000
That's not necessary.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:56.320
But then also it's going to add to your day in the time too, like, you be as efficient still by doing that.

00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:57.320
And, yeah, so do you.

00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:58.320
Is the patient fasted?

00:34:58.320 --> 00:34:59.559
There's another risk there.

00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:00.559
Right.

00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:07.519
I mean, I think, at least for my team are, like, if we have an orthopedic X-ray, we have to do, we always sedate them.

00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:08.519
Right.

00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:12.159
Because the patient's usually painful and you need specific positioning.

00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.360
And so you just can't practically do that awake.

00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:15.360
Yeah.

00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:17.360
That's just not any head stuff.

00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:18.360
Yeah.

00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:22.239
I mean, I think that it's, yeah, it's too hard at the animals moving and all.

00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:23.239
Yeah.

00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:24.239
Your X-rays are blown.

00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:25.239
Yeah.

00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:34.840
I was also going to add, and when I was in college, which was like four years ago, we sedated every patient taped on the table and had to process every film too.

00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:35.840
Oh, yeah.

00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:36.840
You did have to process every...

00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:37.840
We had a dark room.

00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:38.840
Oh my god.

00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:39.840
We started getting the digital.

00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:40.840
Even these days.

00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:41.840
Even these days.

00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:42.840
We started back in the day.

00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:43.840
We started here.

00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:43.840
We just started getting the digital.

00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:44.840
Well, yeah, but we didn't have to process them.

00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:46.840
We had, like, we just put the film into the machines.

00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:47.840
We didn't have like a dark room.

00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:48.840
We didn't have to.

00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:52.400
Like, I had to put it to the thing, dip it in the thing, hang it up.

00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:53.400
Yeah.

00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:54.400
Like, we had a dark room.

00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:59.880
Yeah, like, it goes through and we, and we, and we, and we, and we, and we, and we, and we, and it goes through, like, it's film, you, and take, so you go in a room, it's dark.

00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:00.880
Yeah.

00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:03.920
You open the cassette, you take the film out, you have to feed it into the thing.

00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:04.920
And make sure it's the right way.

00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:05.920
Make sure it's the right way.

00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:06.920
And it goes in.

00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:07.920
Well, did you look at me?

00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:08.920
I don't know.

00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:14.280
I was like, the processor goes in the developer, comes out into the dryer and then comes out on the back of the machine.

00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:21.119
And then you could put it up and like, you have to, you have to, but there's like a very faint, small red light.

00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:22.320
There wasn't ours.

00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:23.920
So you could see, you couldn't see.

00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:25.320
So you had to stand there for like a while.

00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:26.320
I just got adjusted.

00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:27.719
So you knew where everything was.

00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:30.559
And like, if you missed or messed up one step, you, oh my God.

00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:32.079
Yeah, you gotta go back and do that.

00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:33.079
Yeah, I had to do that.

00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:34.079
And that was only four years ago.

00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:35.760
That's a nice, I'd be see still has a dark room.

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:36.760
Right.

00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:37.760
No, it's not.

00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:38.760
It's like knowing the capitals now.

00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:39.760
Well, yeah, what am I going to do with that matter?

00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:40.760
Well, that's what I'm saying.

00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:41.760
It does not matter.

00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:42.760
It does not matter.

00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:43.760
I don't know your computer.

00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:44.760
There's like one or two seconds.

00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:51.599
Like, who cares if you know the capital of Massachusetts, you know the States?

00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:52.599
No, I don't know.

00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:53.599
Probably no.

00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:54.599
Alabama.

00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:55.599
Alaska, Arizona.

00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:56.599
Arkansas.

00:36:56.599 --> 00:36:57.599
I'm not.

00:36:57.599 --> 00:36:58.599
Arkansas.

00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:00.400
I'm trying to think.

00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:01.800
What is the capital of North Dakota?

00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:04.199
I think I don't know, but you know what I can do.

00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.039
I think I start to realize the capital of North Dakota.

00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:11.679
Siri, what are the capital of North Dakota?

00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:12.679
I'm not really answering.

00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:13.679
Siri, I don't know about it.

00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:14.679
Siri doesn't care.

00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:19.800
What's the capital of North Dakota?

00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:20.800
Bismarck.

00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:21.800
Bismarck.

00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:23.159
Bussy, but like the dark room.

00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:26.760
There's probably like one in a million clinics right now that have a dark room and you have to process or it.

00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:27.760
Oh, I think so.

00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:28.760
I do absolutely.

00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:29.760
Absolutely.

00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:30.760
I do absolutely.

00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:35.000
Yes, cheap and just, you know, then I wouldn't work with this clinic.

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:37.599
Yeah, I would not work in those clinics.

00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:38.599
Yeah.

00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:40.599
So, okay, that's our other advice, Michelle.

00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:42.159
You get out and come back to Jersey.

00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.320
Don't know the clinic that has a dark room.

00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:45.920
No, get a clinic with digital.

00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:48.840
We got that digital, actually, machine here.

00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:49.840
I was like, whoa.

00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:50.840
Yeah.

00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:56.320
Because I don't know how we used to do it because there would be like 10 to 15 minutes in between each film because we'd have to put it in the thing.

00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:57.519
I'm like, what do we do with the dogs?

00:37:57.519 --> 00:37:59.159
I said, I don't remember.

00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:01.280
I think somebody's, you act man.

00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:02.679
Maybe we had an extra person.

00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:03.679
Yeah.

00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:08.800
So, is why we held that might have been a lot of me and I did a lot of weird things that we got.

00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:11.239
So, the customers, very good question.

00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:13.480
Did everyone share their opinion on the question?

00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:14.480
I think so.

00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:16.239
Okay, great question.

00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:19.119
Courtney, would you like to have every animal was sedated?

00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:20.119
You're the technician.

00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:21.119
You're the technician.

00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:22.119
Um, an anti-corporate.

00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:23.119
It's case of Pennay, okay?

00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:24.119
An orangey.

00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:31.719
Because, like, sedation is so time-consuming and like I would not want to have to sedate every single animal that walked through the building and then needed extra space.

00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:32.719
Yeah.

00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:33.719
That would not, that's not feasible.

00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:34.719
Yeah.

00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.079
So, our opinion is we would sedate animals that are painful.

00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:39.079
Yes.

00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:40.079
Too wiggly.

00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:41.079
You can't get accurate phones.

00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:42.079
Too aggressive.

00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:43.079
Too aggressive.

00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:44.079
Mm-hmm.

00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:45.079
And orthopedics.

00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:46.079
That's for me.

00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:47.079
That's for me.

00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:48.079
Yeah.

00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:49.079
But no, I would not want to sedate every animal.

00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:50.079
It sounds nice.

00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:51.079
It sounds like amazing.

00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:54.079
That I could just lay an animal there, but that's a lot.

00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:55.079
You should recover then.

00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:57.079
Well, that's the big thing is that we have a whole lot of the post-war.

00:38:57.079 --> 00:38:58.079
A whole hour.

00:38:58.079 --> 00:38:59.079
A whole sedation.

00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:00.079
Yeah.

00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:02.519
Like, hour or longer depending on how fast the patient wakes up.

00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:03.519
So, no.

00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:04.519
Okay.

00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:05.519
There we have it.

00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:07.519
At least you can decide in the United States.

00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:08.519
Exactly.

00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:09.519
You have the power.

00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:10.519
The power.

00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:11.519
All right, Michelle.

00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:12.519
Keep after it.

00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:13.519
Great question.

00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:14.519
Yes.

00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:15.519
You're almost there.

00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:16.519
And thanks for listening.

00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:17.519
Instead of a picture of scum.

00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:18.519
I was just going to say, that was pictures.

00:39:18.519 --> 00:39:19.519
That was pictures.

00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:20.519
That's my dream.

00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:21.519
It's my dream places to go.

00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:22.519
It's a big thing.

00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:23.519
Very cool.

00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:24.519
Very cool.

00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:29.519
Thank you for, thank you so much for tuning into another episode of the veterinary roundtable.

00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:34.480
Remember, send in those questions and be sure to follow us on all social media platforms at AllStar veterinary clinic.

00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:39.239
If you enjoyed this episode or a previous episode, leave us a review on your podcast provider of choice.

00:39:39.239 --> 00:39:41.840
We'll see you in a few weeks for the next episode of the veterinary roundtable.

00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:42.840
That was perfect.

00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:44.840
That was perfect.

00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:51.840
[laughs][music][music]