Ep:131 Fort Sill Bigfoot Encounter

<v Speaker 1>It was actually John who noticed it before me, and
<v Speaker 1>he goes, did you hear that sound?
<v Speaker 2>And I said, what sound?
<v Speaker 1>So we were really quiet, and so we started to
<v Speaker 1>slowly walk again, and I literally heard something pacing us.
<v Speaker 1>And then little sticks and pine cones started being thrown
<v Speaker 1>at us, and John is starting to freak out because
<v Speaker 1>nobody is answering us, and it started to worry me
<v Speaker 1>just a little bit too. And then I started to
<v Speaker 1>hear kind of like what sounded like snorts. I wasn't
<v Speaker 1>no expert by that time, but I was still familiar
<v Speaker 1>enough with sounds that I knew that wasn't any deer.
<v Speaker 1>Couldn't really figure out what it was, but I knew
<v Speaker 1>for certain it took.
<v Speaker 2>Hands to throw.
<v Speaker 1>And then I looked up as the sun was kind
<v Speaker 1>of peeking up, but I could literally see a silhouette
<v Speaker 1>just below the top and it was just massive, and
<v Speaker 1>I said, what the hell is that.
<v Speaker 2>John looks up and he just went white as a ghost.
<v Speaker 3>This is Bigfoot Crossroads. My name is Matt, and I'd
<v Speaker 3>like to welcome Mark to the show. Mark is somebody
<v Speaker 3>who's just telling me he's been listening for years, back
<v Speaker 3>since before Bigfoot Crossroads. Was even a thing, and just
<v Speaker 3>by random occurrence, Mark, I ran across a comment you
<v Speaker 3>had left on an episode probably about a year ago,
<v Speaker 3>and it caught my attention, specifically for the state of Oklahoma,
<v Speaker 3>of course. But yeah, man, welcome to the show.
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for joining me, appreciating Matt, thanks for having me.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so, you know, let's just go back to I
<v Speaker 3>guess when you were fourteen years old. If you don't
<v Speaker 3>mind walking us through what happened.
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm sure it's the same as in most states,
<v Speaker 1>deer hunting season comes around and if you have a
<v Speaker 1>note from your parents, you can get out.
<v Speaker 2>Of school for a week.
<v Speaker 1>I think it was to go deer hunting right with
<v Speaker 1>your folks, at least that's how it is in the
<v Speaker 1>Rocky from Utah. So we were I was able to
<v Speaker 1>go again with my stepdad, his brother, and a.
<v Speaker 2>Friend of mine named John who came along with us.
<v Speaker 1>And if anybody who's listening is familiar with this area,
<v Speaker 1>we were upfair at the top of Fairview Canyon. There's
<v Speaker 1>a lake up there, and this was in the seventies mine.
<v Speaker 1>I'm fifty nine, so a long long time ago, and
<v Speaker 1>they were like jeep trails and everything that people just
<v Speaker 1>kind of made their own roads off the side of
<v Speaker 1>the lake through the quaking aspens and pine right and
<v Speaker 1>we pulled into what was like the bottom of a
<v Speaker 1>small draw that had a stream coming down it over
<v Speaker 1>and there's little teeny patches of snow, if you will.
<v Speaker 1>And my dad and uncle said they were going to
<v Speaker 1>go to the top of the draw. We were in
<v Speaker 1>a soft top jeep, and they told me and John
<v Speaker 1>give it all an hour hour and a half, and
<v Speaker 1>they wanted us to come up the right side of
<v Speaker 1>the draw, making as much noise as possible, drawing things
<v Speaker 1>down into the bottom of the draw to hopefully push
<v Speaker 1>an any deer there. It's mule deer here, not whitehaill
<v Speaker 1>towards them and they would not fire towards.
<v Speaker 2>The right side of the draw. So that's what we did.
<v Speaker 1>And boy to tell two fourteen year old boys to
<v Speaker 1>make as much noise as they want when you've been
<v Speaker 1>told be as quiet as you can deer hunting. We
<v Speaker 1>were just tooting it up, chucking rocks and sticks down
<v Speaker 1>in the draw and just talking with each other. And
<v Speaker 1>it was actually John who noticed it before me, and
<v Speaker 1>he goes, did you hear that sound? And I said,
<v Speaker 1>what sound and he goes, I don't know, maybe a
<v Speaker 1>buck snort was his first time hunting, actually, and I
<v Speaker 1>didn't actually hear it.
<v Speaker 2>So we were really quiet.
<v Speaker 1>And kind of stopped on the on the We were
<v Speaker 1>in the middle of the right side of the draw
<v Speaker 1>because you don't want to be silho silhouetted on.
<v Speaker 2>The top of the ridge, right and you can't shoot
<v Speaker 2>till the sun comes up.
<v Speaker 1>So it's it's dark too, So the sun hasn't come
<v Speaker 1>up quite yet, it's just oh, it's still behind the mountains,
<v Speaker 1>but it's it's lightning up. And so we started to
<v Speaker 1>slowly walk again, and I literally heard something pacing us
<v Speaker 1>on the right side, and then little sticks and pine
<v Speaker 1>combs started being thrown at us, and I thought it
<v Speaker 1>was my stepdad and uncle messing with us. So I
<v Speaker 1>was hollering up the side of the hill, tell them, hey,
<v Speaker 1>knock that off. I thought we were supposed to be
<v Speaker 1>deer hunting and being quiet.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's not funny. How you get to get any deer.
<v Speaker 1>And John is starting to freak out because nobody's answering us,
<v Speaker 1>and started to worry me just a little bit too.
<v Speaker 2>I had a twenty two.
<v Speaker 1>Pistol on my side, way illegal in a holster on
<v Speaker 1>my side, and he gave John my knife because he
<v Speaker 1>had nothing. But you're supposed to be twenty one for
<v Speaker 1>a pistol.
<v Speaker 2>But it beat heaving nothing in the mountains.
<v Speaker 4>Right, And.
<v Speaker 1>Then I started to hear kind of like what sounded
<v Speaker 1>like snorts. Maybe grunts is probably better than snorts. And
<v Speaker 1>been hunting since I was twelve.
<v Speaker 2>You take hunter safety at twelve, so I'm not.
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't no expert by that time, but I was
<v Speaker 1>still familiar enough with sounds that I knew that wasn't
<v Speaker 1>any deer, but I didn't know what it was. I
<v Speaker 1>started thinking black bear. Gosh, we're long ways from the
<v Speaker 1>top of the draw. Still we're not hearing My stepdad's
<v Speaker 1>name was Dave and his brother's name was Terry, and
<v Speaker 1>we're not hearing anything from those guys. So I just
<v Speaker 1>kind of couldn't really figure out what it was. But
<v Speaker 1>I knew for certain it took hands to throw, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and nothing hit us, but it was like beside us
<v Speaker 1>and would bounce in front of us on the side of.
<v Speaker 2>The hill and just rolled down.
<v Speaker 1>And then I looked up as the sun was kind
<v Speaker 1>of peeking up and be probably laughter. Six is when
<v Speaker 1>that comes up from behind the mountain.
<v Speaker 2>We were on.
<v Speaker 1>It starts to get really bright and you're blinded by
<v Speaker 1>it because we were facing east, so it's in our face.
<v Speaker 1>But I could literally see a silhouette just below the top.
<v Speaker 1>And it wasn't my It wasn't wearing Hunter orange. I
<v Speaker 1>could tell that much. And it was just massive, And
<v Speaker 1>I said, what the hell is that? To John, it
<v Speaker 1>was another cool thing without the groms there, as you
<v Speaker 1>could swear sure. And John looks up and he just
<v Speaker 1>went white as a ghost.
<v Speaker 2>He goes, I don't know, Let's get the hell out
<v Speaker 2>of here.
<v Speaker 1>So we literally ran to the bottom of the draw
<v Speaker 1>and we start zigzagging. It's just a little teenyge, not
<v Speaker 1>even really a stream, but kind of like from melting snow,
<v Speaker 1>going down the draw.
<v Speaker 2>Towards where the jeep was parked. So we started heading
<v Speaker 2>back for the jeep.
<v Speaker 1>We bagged, making it all the way to the top
<v Speaker 1>of the draw because something was there. Even if it
<v Speaker 1>was just another adult messing with us, it wasn't right. Well,
<v Speaker 1>as we're zigzagging down this draw, I had noticed gigantic
<v Speaker 1>footprints in the bottom of the draw, kind of next
<v Speaker 1>to this small stream, and I'm trying to get John
<v Speaker 1>to notice it, and he's just freaking out. He's actually crying.
<v Speaker 1>John actually pissed himself. I don't know if it was
<v Speaker 1>okay to say that.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I mean it happens.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he wet himself. And we made it back to
<v Speaker 1>the jeep. There's no keys in it. It's a soft top,
<v Speaker 1>and I immediately I'm thinking, I remember and sixth grade
<v Speaker 1>I had seen in a local theater at the Patterson Gimblin.
<v Speaker 2>Film and I thought, no way, and.
<v Speaker 1>I thought there was only one, if there was one,
<v Speaker 1>and that it existed in California. You know, I'm only fourteen,
<v Speaker 1>so I'm not grasping that they could be anywhere and everywhere.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that's all.
<v Speaker 1>I could come up with, because I was familiar enough
<v Speaker 1>in the two years of hunting to know that took
<v Speaker 1>hands to throw, and that was nothing I'd ever seen
<v Speaker 1>hunting before, even just the silhouette.
<v Speaker 2>It was just way too big.
<v Speaker 1>As I'm thinking about it, so I'm laying on the
<v Speaker 1>horn because they have the keys.
<v Speaker 2>I'm hoping the sound will bring them there.
<v Speaker 1>And I'm thinking is if we keep looking at the
<v Speaker 1>opening of the draw, because there's like this little grassy field,
<v Speaker 1>small circular field right.
<v Speaker 2>At the bottom of the draw where the jeep was parked.
<v Speaker 2>And I kept waiting for whatever it.
<v Speaker 1>Was to bust out of that draw and come and
<v Speaker 1>eat us, kill us, I don't know, but nothing came out,
<v Speaker 1>and probably like two and a half three hours later.
<v Speaker 2>They come down the draw.
<v Speaker 1>It just mattered in hell that we never made it
<v Speaker 1>up to where they were, and we tried to tell
<v Speaker 1>them what happened, and they just made fun of us
<v Speaker 1>and said, if it was anything, it was a bear.
<v Speaker 2>So we go to middle school and we tell.
<v Speaker 1>Our science teacher this, and he apparently was way more
<v Speaker 1>interested in it than I was, and knew way more
<v Speaker 1>about what it could have been than a fourteen year
<v Speaker 1>old kid. So he asked if he thought, if he
<v Speaker 1>got our parents' permission, if they would take us back
<v Speaker 1>up there, because I told him about the feetprint that we.
<v Speaker 2>Saw, footprints that we saw.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so he had plaster of Paris, and my
<v Speaker 1>stepdad went back with us. Terry didn't but went back
<v Speaker 1>with us and made plaster casts. And then and this
<v Speaker 1>is like after the huntlined you, and they were prints
<v Speaker 1>were old by then, and because we can only be
<v Speaker 1>gone for the week, so they were at least I
<v Speaker 1>don't know how old they were when we saw him,
<v Speaker 1>to tell you the truth, but I'm guessing relatively recent
<v Speaker 1>if it was there on the side of the hill. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and so he had us passing these casts around the
<v Speaker 1>class and then telling the story to the class.
<v Speaker 4>Oh wow, and.
<v Speaker 2>Gushaud I thought about it.
<v Speaker 1>I should have asked for one of those casts, because
<v Speaker 1>he kept them both. And that was like my big story.
<v Speaker 1>And I never told anyone about it, and I only
<v Speaker 1>deduced what it was because of my Fort Sill, Oklahoma experience,
<v Speaker 1>because that was a blatant I saw it less than well,
<v Speaker 1>probably ten feet from me.
<v Speaker 4>Oh wow.
<v Speaker 3>I wonder what happened to those casts. You know, that's
<v Speaker 3>interesting that your science teacher had such an interest in
<v Speaker 3>the subject at that point in time, because it's not
<v Speaker 3>like it is today. As you know, not very many
<v Speaker 3>people were into it back then.
<v Speaker 1>No, the seventies, This was probably seventy six, I'm guessing
<v Speaker 1>fifty nine, seventy six, seventy seven.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And that was actually a time in history when
<v Speaker 3>there was a lot of big foot sightings at least
<v Speaker 3>being talked about for whatever reason. I think maybe the
<v Speaker 3>legend of Boggie Creek had something to do with it. It
<v Speaker 3>was more in the public's eye and everything.
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I.
<v Speaker 1>Remember that movie fact. I think I own it, legend
<v Speaker 1>of Boggie Creek.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So how many years later was it whenever Fort
<v Speaker 3>Still happened?
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, I was in the Field Artillery.
<v Speaker 1>That was my second MOS in the army to make sergeant,
<v Speaker 1>and back then I have.
<v Speaker 2>No clue what it's like today.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you had to have two moss, which means
<v Speaker 1>two jobs you're qualified for to make sergeant. And I
<v Speaker 1>was a corporal at the time, and we were pulling
<v Speaker 1>field guard me in a PFC at Private first class
<v Speaker 1>on the West Range. I lived in Latin. I'm sure
<v Speaker 1>you're familiar with Lawton. I am arm pit of the world.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, spent some time there, more than I would I hope.
<v Speaker 1>For you know, the Goodyear Plant and Fort Sill is
<v Speaker 1>about all there is. Yeah, And so we're on the
<v Speaker 1>rest of West Range, and every hour on the hour
<v Speaker 1>we're supposed to call back to headquarters on the field.
<v Speaker 2>Radio and make a radio check.
<v Speaker 1>And I would send the PFC to the west, and
<v Speaker 1>there's it's self propelled artillery. There were eight inchaaliters and
<v Speaker 1>one five five Holitzs and they were all wined up
<v Speaker 1>in like a concave u facing down range for the
<v Speaker 1>trainees that would come out there the next day. And
<v Speaker 1>we were in what's called the GP Medium. Again, it's
<v Speaker 1>really cold.
<v Speaker 2>It was November.
<v Speaker 1>I believe it was either October or November. Again, I
<v Speaker 1>just remember it was cold. Not a lot of snow.
<v Speaker 1>In Oklahoma, they get flurries the whole post shuts now.
<v Speaker 2>Lots of rain, but not a lot of snow.
<v Speaker 1>So anyway, I sent the PFC to the west and
<v Speaker 1>I went to the east, and you have your sixteen
<v Speaker 1>A one's. They were then same rifles that were used
<v Speaker 1>in Vietnam, and nothing new when I was in the military. Yet,
<v Speaker 1>in fact, we still wore what they called the steel pots.
<v Speaker 1>They weren't the kevlar helmet yet. They had a liner
<v Speaker 1>and a steel pot. But I'm walking down the east
<v Speaker 1>side of the guns, and most of Fort Zille, if
<v Speaker 1>you're familiar with it, is Indian reservation still that the
<v Speaker 1>government rents, right and in fact we ran by Geronimo's
<v Speaker 1>grave every day and repelled off the Medicine Bluff where
<v Speaker 1>he escaped the cavalry on his horse at least.
<v Speaker 2>Once a month. Wow. Yeah, so yeah, it's a really
<v Speaker 2>interesting place.
<v Speaker 1>You could go to cannon Walk and even and see
<v Speaker 1>the little cell that they kept Dronimo in and it's
<v Speaker 1>about the size of an outhouse.
<v Speaker 5>It's crazy, but anyway, it's by the time I got
<v Speaker 5>back to the field phone to make the check back,
<v Speaker 5>then we were still using the black skill Craft government
<v Speaker 5>pens that say US Government on them, and you.
<v Speaker 1>Were still writing a written field report. You kept a
<v Speaker 1>literal log, a written log of every hour on the
<v Speaker 1>hour and what time you made your radio.
<v Speaker 2>Check to the minute and seconds. And as I'm walking
<v Speaker 2>to the east, I literally heard a growl and.
<v Speaker 1>The first thing I thought was that a coyote, So
<v Speaker 1>I start walking slow. We have blanks, is all we have,
<v Speaker 1>and the PFC is to the west, and these guns
<v Speaker 1>are stretched out a long way.
<v Speaker 2>There were sixteen guns, so.
<v Speaker 1>Between each gun is at least twenty thirty feet and
<v Speaker 1>then behind them a tarp where all the rounds will
<v Speaker 1>go underneath it, and the powder charges for each round
<v Speaker 1>that you fire so as I'm walking beside them now,
<v Speaker 1>the one five five is they're almost like a gigantic tank.
<v Speaker 2>You can ride inside.
<v Speaker 1>Of them inside the turret and you load them like
<v Speaker 1>the amos stored in the back, but the eight inch
<v Speaker 1>ones the biggest ones you rode on the outside. There
<v Speaker 1>was nothing really enclosed except the driver's hatch.
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm walking.
<v Speaker 1>Beside it one five to five, and I had to
<v Speaker 1>take my selector switch and I turn it to auto
<v Speaker 1>because I'm thinking, if it's a coyote, I'll rip some
<v Speaker 1>blanks off and scare it away. And I heard another
<v Speaker 1>growl and I looked up and they're standing and the
<v Speaker 1>barrels are kept elevated at a forty five degree angle
<v Speaker 1>with a with a canvas bag over the end to
<v Speaker 1>keep dust, leaves, dirt moisture from getting inside till the
<v Speaker 1>fire mission. It's standing literally underneath the very end of that,
<v Speaker 1>and it's probably ten feet to the bottom of the barrel,
<v Speaker 1>the end of the barrel from the ground up, and
<v Speaker 1>it's standing underneath that. And it growled again, and I
<v Speaker 1>literally felt felt it in my chest and the M
<v Speaker 1>sixteen handguards vibrated and it has an ejector flap for
<v Speaker 1>the brass, the spent brass to come out the right side.
<v Speaker 1>That metal flap was vibrating too, and I knew instantly
<v Speaker 1>when I looked at it what I saw when I
<v Speaker 1>was fourteen did The pieces like fell together in light speed,
<v Speaker 1>And I literally started talking to it, begging it not
<v Speaker 1>to hurt me. I just wanted to go back to
<v Speaker 1>the tent, and I started backing up, ever so slowly,
<v Speaker 1>not taking my eyes off of it.
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember how many.
<v Speaker 1>Steps it was, but because it's so cold out there,
<v Speaker 1>there's also fifty five gallon drums behind the guns.
<v Speaker 2>They're filled with wood.
<v Speaker 1>So the trainees can keep their hands warm between rotating
<v Speaker 1>and fire mission. Yeah, and I bumped into this barrel,
<v Speaker 1>but I literally thought it was another one of them,
<v Speaker 1>because I just felt this bunk behind me against my
<v Speaker 1>butt and instant reflex, I turned to look behind me
<v Speaker 1>and it's just the fire barrel and my head whips
<v Speaker 1>back around to the front and it's not there. It's gone,
<v Speaker 1>like it was never freaking there.
<v Speaker 2>Wow. So I'm looking.
<v Speaker 1>Around and I'm looking around and I'm listening, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>my hearing is straining for the snap of a twig.
<v Speaker 1>The crunch of a leaf, anything, and I didn't hear nothing.
<v Speaker 2>It was like a vacuum.
<v Speaker 1>So I slowly, slowly, kind of walk on the tips
<v Speaker 1>of my boots, if you will, the fronts of my
<v Speaker 1>toes to make as least sound as possible, to go
<v Speaker 1>back to the tent where the wood burning stove was
<v Speaker 1>and the field bone and stuff. And I got there first,
<v Speaker 1>and I went in the flap and I'm just I
<v Speaker 1>sat down.
<v Speaker 2>There's a little folding desk.
<v Speaker 1>And a well table, not really desk, and a chair,
<v Speaker 1>and then the field phone on top of it for
<v Speaker 1>calling headquarters, and then the log right there and literally
<v Speaker 1>a wind up clock for every hour on the hour,
<v Speaker 1>and two cots in the wood burning stove. And as
<v Speaker 1>soon as I sat down, it's like the I don't know,
<v Speaker 1>the adrenaline or the rush set in, and I just
<v Speaker 1>shook like a leaf. I had a hard time wrapping
<v Speaker 1>my head around what just happened and what had happened
<v Speaker 1>at fourteen. It was mind boggling how both those two
<v Speaker 1>pieces came together for me. And then I hear the
<v Speaker 1>tent flap, and I freak out and I spin around
<v Speaker 1>point in my sixteen at the flap.
<v Speaker 2>Don't know why, but it's my weapon. Oh.
<v Speaker 1>We had hand grenade simulators too, picture a glorified M eighty.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I've I've played with those a couple of times.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, all the air is a big boom, right,
<v Speaker 1>like a flash bang, if you will.
<v Speaker 2>And we had those as well.
<v Speaker 1>But I turned around thinking it was coming in the
<v Speaker 1>tent to get me. I hadn't even given a thought
<v Speaker 1>except did they get him to the PFC Hendrix was
<v Speaker 1>his naim actually, and.
<v Speaker 2>It was him coming through the canvas flat and I said, and.
<v Speaker 1>He goes, what the hell was that? And I said,
<v Speaker 1>you heard that? He said he heard the grol too.
<v Speaker 1>He says, was that a coyote? And I said it
<v Speaker 1>was no damn coyote. And he sat on the edge
<v Speaker 1>of his bunk and I told him everything that happened
<v Speaker 1>when I was fourteen, and then what I saw at
<v Speaker 1>the end of that one five five millimeter howitzer barrel
<v Speaker 1>and what had happened and how the the handguards around
<v Speaker 1>the barrel vibrated, and how the ejector report vibrated. And
<v Speaker 1>he's watching me write this down. He goes, are you
<v Speaker 1>calling this in and telling them what happened. And I said, well,
<v Speaker 1>if you don't say exactly what happened out here, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>they have you still brainwashed that if you leave out
<v Speaker 1>one little tiny thing.
<v Speaker 2>Your ass is grass. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>So I wrote it all down, every bit of it down,
<v Speaker 1>and I called headquarters and told them. And I was
<v Speaker 1>literally arguing with the CQ Charge of quarters back at
<v Speaker 1>headquarters that you reported to in the middle of the
<v Speaker 1>night at early morning, every hour on the hour about
<v Speaker 1>what happened. And he goes, did you write that in
<v Speaker 1>the log? And I said, of course I did. I'm
<v Speaker 1>supposed to write everything that happens in the field in
<v Speaker 1>that book. And he goes, you have no idea what
<v Speaker 1>you've done. And he goes, call back in call back
<v Speaker 1>for your next hour check up, And literally the captain
<v Speaker 1>of my battery, Bravo Battery, showed up with the XO,
<v Speaker 1>a first lieutenant, like two hours before anybody else. Well,
<v Speaker 1>an a range master. They're the ones who control the
<v Speaker 1>firing ranges you're on, be it a rifle or artillery.
<v Speaker 1>They like watch for fires, from the tracers, from the explosions,
<v Speaker 1>all that stuff, and they have me explain it all
<v Speaker 1>and write it all in a separate written report, and
<v Speaker 1>they also had a tight NDA that they told me
<v Speaker 1>to sign or my career was over.
<v Speaker 2>So I said, what do you want me to sign
<v Speaker 2>that for?
<v Speaker 1>And they said, because you're not allowed to talk about
<v Speaker 1>this until at least twenty years after your honorable discharge.
<v Speaker 1>And I said, why, what's the big deal? And they
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't answer me. They just said, just do what your
<v Speaker 1>order of the corporal? What's your order to corporal? So
<v Speaker 1>I signed it and I didn't even tell my wife
<v Speaker 1>that I was married to for twenty eight years until
<v Speaker 1>twenty one years into our marriage what happened at fourteen
<v Speaker 1>or at fort though? Because who's going to believe me?
<v Speaker 1>I mean, clear back then you were laughed at hell
<v Speaker 1>you still kind of are. Yeah, And like I said,
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a researcher or nothing. I just know what
<v Speaker 1>happened to me twice?
<v Speaker 2>But it did, did it?
<v Speaker 1>From all the years that I've been through this, they're
<v Speaker 1>even in my dreams, Matt. Sometimes not all the time,
<v Speaker 1>but they're in my dreams, and it's never pleasant. I
<v Speaker 1>gathered that he he didn't like the weapons, the artillery,
<v Speaker 1>he didn't like them sixteen in my hands, not that
<v Speaker 1>he knew, you know, their nomenclature, but he obviously to me,
<v Speaker 1>he obviously knew they were something not good or natural, right,
<v Speaker 1>And I thought that's why he was growled, not specifically me,
<v Speaker 1>but everything that was in his living room, so to speak.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, it was really, really bizarre.
<v Speaker 1>And I finally told her, and she didn't believe me.
<v Speaker 1>She made me from us not to tell the kids,
<v Speaker 1>and I waited till they were teenagers.
<v Speaker 2>I have seven grown children. They all know. Some believe me,
<v Speaker 2>some don't.
<v Speaker 1>I have a daughter actually that goes to my son's
<v Speaker 1>in Homer, Alaska for the summer sometimes. She's the youngest.
<v Speaker 1>She claims to have seen one there because my son
<v Speaker 1>built his own home outside of Homer up in Alaska.
<v Speaker 2>Wow, he's never.
<v Speaker 1>Seen anything, but she claims to have from riding in
<v Speaker 1>the back of the car with them. So, for fear
<v Speaker 1>of what they threatened me with, for the longest time,
<v Speaker 1>I didn't tell anybody about it, except.
<v Speaker 2>Maybe a few times. Once I was out. You'd be
<v Speaker 2>around a campfire having beers in your lips.
<v Speaker 1>Get a little loose, right, and you start sharing things
<v Speaker 1>with people, and some people would believe me.
<v Speaker 2>And some wouldn't.
<v Speaker 1>Someone just laugh tell me I had too much to drink,
<v Speaker 1>and so I just kind of clammed up about it.
<v Speaker 1>And then all of a sudden it started to become
<v Speaker 1>this gigantic thing. When this started to become a bigger thing,
<v Speaker 1>I just at my age, which was ten or more
<v Speaker 1>years ago, I had just started saying, you know, I
<v Speaker 1>don't care anymore who believes me or not.
<v Speaker 2>I was there.
<v Speaker 1>In fact, I've even got pictures of prints I can
<v Speaker 1>send you. Behind our motorcycle clubhouse, like seven miles from
<v Speaker 1>my house, there's this huge irrigation ditch that runs down
<v Speaker 1>from there's a river that comes out of American Fork Canyon,
<v Speaker 1>which is Mount Tempanogus.
<v Speaker 2>They have the Alpine Loop at the top. Well, this big, big.
<v Speaker 1>Deep it's probably ten twelve feet deep, runoff irrigation ditch
<v Speaker 1>that's nothing but mud.
<v Speaker 2>It's not concrete.
<v Speaker 1>It's all Burt goes behind and through all these homes
<v Speaker 1>and I'm in a motorcycle club here, and our clubhouse
<v Speaker 1>is behind the president's house. And in the in the
<v Speaker 1>summer and follow that ditchal run constantly, but it wasn't running.
<v Speaker 1>And there's like this little deck built out into it,
<v Speaker 1>a wood thing you can walk out on. So I
<v Speaker 1>walk out there and there's little pools of water, and
<v Speaker 1>there's mule deer prints and literally tracks following those prints. Wow,
<v Speaker 1>that's why I started taking pictures, and.
<v Speaker 2>I'll actually send those to you.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and also some gigantic structures.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'm sure you're familiar with the structures.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and those are literally in the canyon straight behind
<v Speaker 1>my house. I can send you a picture of the
<v Speaker 1>canyon right byd my house and the structures that I
<v Speaker 1>found up there three.
<v Speaker 2>Years ago, and those still change to this day.
<v Speaker 1>But when I go up there, you know, I'll compare
<v Speaker 1>the pictures and there's either something taken away or add it.
<v Speaker 1>It could it have been somebody doing it. There's not
<v Speaker 1>a regular hiking trail up there. There's just game trails
<v Speaker 1>that I follow. I don't like taking the beaten path.
<v Speaker 1>That's not how you find deer.
<v Speaker 3>Let me ask you some questions about that Fort Stell incident. Sure, first,
<v Speaker 3>I mean, obviously you got a pretty good look at it.
<v Speaker 4>What did it look like to you?
<v Speaker 1>The one in Oklahoma was auburn that I saw, Well,
<v Speaker 1>it looked auburn. It's not as auburn as I am,
<v Speaker 1>and like I said, it was at least to the
<v Speaker 1>bottom of that barrel, give or take a few inches,
<v Speaker 1>maybe six inches, close to ten feet tall. I would
<v Speaker 1>have guessed the weight, being a lifelong hunter, at one
<v Speaker 1>thousand pounds, maybe eleven twelve, with the shoulders probably four
<v Speaker 1>and a half feet maybe five. A nose like our nose,
<v Speaker 1>but it was fat, more flat. And you gotta remember,
<v Speaker 1>this is all in a panic glimpse, So everything I'm
<v Speaker 1>thinking about is all the years of it going through
<v Speaker 1>my head, trying to remember every little tiny detail that
<v Speaker 1>I can sure.
<v Speaker 2>And there was no smell.
<v Speaker 1>I never smelled anything either time at fourteen or I
<v Speaker 1>guess it would have been in my mid twenties, late
<v Speaker 1>twenties at Fortsoo because I joined at seventeen with my
<v Speaker 1>mom's signature, so I was still pretty young.
<v Speaker 4>What time of day was it in Oklahoma?
<v Speaker 1>Oh, this was like at two thirty in the morning
<v Speaker 1>because we had to make the next radio check at
<v Speaker 1>three o'clock zero three hundred hours.
<v Speaker 3>And I would assume this was an artillery range, so yeah,
<v Speaker 3>the West Range. Not very much tree cover in the area.
<v Speaker 1>Or behind the guns were some trees but in front
<v Speaker 1>of the guns just firing range.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Oh, and like broken down trucks and old artillery pieces
<v Speaker 1>that you would fire on with direct fire. That's where
<v Speaker 1>you lower your barrel line of sight. In other words,
<v Speaker 1>you're not shooting with deflection in Asthmus where you lob
<v Speaker 1>the round at it, because you can literally hit a
<v Speaker 1>garbage can thirteen miles away with a charge seven of
<v Speaker 1>powder with either of those two artillery pieces, the old
<v Speaker 1>metal thirty three and a half gallon calvinized garbage can.
<v Speaker 2>That's how accurate they are.
<v Speaker 3>Had there been any artillery fire that day.
<v Speaker 1>No, No, In fact, it was our battery that was
<v Speaker 1>out there for the next group of trainees, the next
<v Speaker 1>cycle of artillery trainees that were training to become thirteen
<v Speaker 1>Bravos cann and crewmen, and we just happened to be
<v Speaker 1>assigned to be in the field. In fact, further down
<v Speaker 1>from me and the PFC were some trainees.
<v Speaker 2>But that was like the next next unit.
<v Speaker 1>Now, they weren't part of us, so I have no
<v Speaker 1>idea if anything happened with them or not.
<v Speaker 4>Did you ever talk to the other guy about it?
<v Speaker 1>Well, I tried to, but they literally told us they
<v Speaker 1>separated us in fact, and interviewed us separately.
<v Speaker 2>And when we got back to the unit, he lived
<v Speaker 2>on post.
<v Speaker 1>I lived off post because I had a wife and
<v Speaker 1>two young sons at the time, and so he lived
<v Speaker 1>in on post in the barracks. And the last thing
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to do was was live where I spent
<v Speaker 1>the majority of my life, so I took the off
<v Speaker 1>post housing instead. And I tried talking to Kendrick several
<v Speaker 1>times about it, and he would just flat say, I
<v Speaker 1>don't want to talk about it. I'm not supposed to
<v Speaker 1>talk about it. Neither of us are. We signed those NDAs,
<v Speaker 1>and I would always wait for for a private moment
<v Speaker 1>because he was in the same battery I was. So
<v Speaker 1>I saw him every single day for PT physical training
<v Speaker 1>in the morning and when we go.
<v Speaker 2>To the field.
<v Speaker 1>I literally saw this guy all day long, every day
<v Speaker 1>for inspections, everything, but he wouldn't talk about it. Matter
<v Speaker 1>of fact, on quit being my friend at fourteen over it,
<v Speaker 1>and I still see him occasionally over the years at
<v Speaker 1>like an outdoor concert or something here in Utah, and
<v Speaker 1>he refuses to talk about it.
<v Speaker 2>And after that all happened.
<v Speaker 1>After that year of middle school, he kind of quit
<v Speaker 1>wanting to hang around me and be my friend, and
<v Speaker 1>that always really puzzled me. But I all through all
<v Speaker 1>the years, it seems to me two things happen. You
<v Speaker 1>either become so terrified that you never want to go
<v Speaker 1>wherever it happened again, be it the mountains, the woods,
<v Speaker 1>or you become almost as addicted as a junkie into
<v Speaker 1>trying to figure out why you what are they, and.
<v Speaker 2>Where they come from. And I don't have answers for
<v Speaker 2>any of.
<v Speaker 1>That other than I know that Native Americans knew about
<v Speaker 1>him long before we did.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, here we are, you know, a couple
<v Speaker 3>of old junkies years later, right, still talking about it.
<v Speaker 2>I can't not.
<v Speaker 3>It sounds like from your experience, and I'm not taking
<v Speaker 3>away anything from the experience that you had when you
<v Speaker 3>were fourteen. To me, these are both individual experiences and
<v Speaker 3>they're both very interesting. But the one involving the military,
<v Speaker 3>especially because you reported this just doing what you were
<v Speaker 3>trained to do and they shut it down. But it
<v Speaker 3>sounds like they didn't really doubt what you saw and
<v Speaker 3>that they had some sort of prior knowledge of what
<v Speaker 3>you saw.
<v Speaker 1>Well, Matt, one hundred percent, one hundred and ten percent
<v Speaker 1>believe they absolutely know about it. As a matter of fact,
<v Speaker 1>in the fifties, in the state of Washington, the Army
<v Speaker 1>Corps of Engineers in their their Field Manual, their FM
<v Speaker 1>would list all the flora, fauna, and wildlife that was
<v Speaker 1>in genous to the state of Washington and Oregon in
<v Speaker 1>California and Sasquatch is in it. I found a copy
<v Speaker 1>at an Army surplus store.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've seen pictures of it. I've never seen one
<v Speaker 3>in person, but I mean, why is that in there?
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's just listed right along with all the
<v Speaker 3>other flora and fauna that military personnel might encounter while
<v Speaker 3>on duty.
<v Speaker 2>Yep. And wildlife said.
<v Speaker 3>And I've seen other government documentation. I've seen hunting regulations
<v Speaker 3>that include bigfoot and skunk capes and everything else.
<v Speaker 2>Yep.
<v Speaker 1>As a matter of fact, that town in New York
<v Speaker 1>I think passed a law I said it was illegal
<v Speaker 1>to huntum.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, why do you think the military wanted to keep
<v Speaker 3>it quiet? What is it about these things that they're
<v Speaker 3>so afraid of.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know as they're afraid, but.
<v Speaker 1>To me, hopefully getting wiser in my older age, knowledge
<v Speaker 1>is real power, right sure, and.
<v Speaker 2>It's like the whole UFO thing too.
<v Speaker 1>All of a sudden they start popping out with films
<v Speaker 1>and admitting that there's now they're trying to change the
<v Speaker 1>language and call them UAPs instead of UFO. Right, you
<v Speaker 1>know why is all that happening? Are they they gently
<v Speaker 1>breaking stuff to us? I've never personally seen a UFO,
<v Speaker 1>but I've lived long enough to know we've been a
<v Speaker 1>lied to our whole lives about what's real or not real,
<v Speaker 1>just because of things I've encountered. I think it's about
<v Speaker 1>power and control for them. Also, I don't know how
<v Speaker 1>familiar are with it, but the Russian military was literally
<v Speaker 1>trying to develop just for my own oh gosh, I'm
<v Speaker 1>gonna use the word research. I was literally just I
<v Speaker 1>don't like going to the mountains looking for the thing
<v Speaker 1>or nothing, but I wanted to understand what happened.
<v Speaker 2>Sure, so you know all.
<v Speaker 1>These different countries Russia, it's the Yarin sorry honesty YearIn
<v Speaker 1>is China, and they were literally trying to develop some
<v Speaker 1>type of super soldier ape man.
<v Speaker 2>In a race against the United States. I wondered that,
<v Speaker 2>but I.
<v Speaker 1>Don't think it was anything developed by our government because
<v Speaker 1>it goes back before our government with the Native Americans.
<v Speaker 1>So I don't think that to me, I think it's
<v Speaker 1>a whole power trip to them. They don't want us
<v Speaker 1>knowing any more than we need to to be good
<v Speaker 1>little high workers. But they certainly know the military is
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent. There's that case in Seattle where they
<v Speaker 1>talk about the Hui. It was either Huey or Skycraine.
<v Speaker 1>It was lifting that that cargo net full of the
<v Speaker 1>burned bodies of them from when Mount Saint Helen's Blue.
<v Speaker 4>Yeh.
<v Speaker 3>And there seems to be a lot of reports that
<v Speaker 3>come from around military bases, and the areas that the
<v Speaker 3>military bases are at seem to be active hotbeds as well.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've literally heard of them of them being witnessed
<v Speaker 1>inside of nuclear weapons facilities. They like somehow get over
<v Speaker 1>that fence. Yeah, and they're literally witnessed by by the
<v Speaker 1>guards there. I mean to most of it. It's just
<v Speaker 1>not a secret anymore. If you've unfortunately seen them, you'd
<v Speaker 1>be lying if you said.
<v Speaker 2>They weren't real.
<v Speaker 3>So in your situation, you know, like we were talking about,
<v Speaker 3>not much cover in the area. You didn't hear it
<v Speaker 3>walk off, you didn't see it running off Nope. Granted
<v Speaker 3>I would assume it was pretty dark in the area.
<v Speaker 2>It was, but your eyes.
<v Speaker 1>You got your military angled flash lights, but they're off
<v Speaker 1>and you're you're out there long enough that your eyes
<v Speaker 1>are pretty much adjusted with whatever ambient light that there is.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I can definitely see everything on that howitzer
<v Speaker 1>to the colummeter which is used for deflection and asthma
<v Speaker 1>to the left of it at a forty five degree
<v Speaker 1>angle setting out separate from the piece, certainly to the
<v Speaker 1>end of the barrel, and I'd say your vision that
<v Speaker 1>particular night was thirty feet and to the end of
<v Speaker 1>that barrel from where I was at the middle of
<v Speaker 1>the howitzer was maybe twelve fifteen feet maximum.
<v Speaker 4>Wow.
<v Speaker 1>But there was literally no smell. I just I didn't
<v Speaker 1>get the feeling that was mad at me. It was
<v Speaker 1>mad at everything around it, that it wasn't happy with
<v Speaker 1>the destruction all around it, if you will, And I'm
<v Speaker 1>just I'm just spitting in the wind here.
<v Speaker 2>That's just my feeling.
<v Speaker 3>Well, no, I mean, that's what we have to go
<v Speaker 3>off of. Do you think that your experience whenever you
<v Speaker 3>were fourteen was connected to this?
<v Speaker 2>I've wondered that many many times.
<v Speaker 1>Especially you know, after the dream things, because in the dreams,
<v Speaker 1>when they very occasionally come to me, in the dreams,
<v Speaker 1>it's not reliving what happened. It's always a new experience.
<v Speaker 1>But they're always angry and they're always.
<v Speaker 2>Coming for me.
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't matter where I try to hide, and it's
<v Speaker 1>always either the black one you're in Utah or the
<v Speaker 1>auburn one in Oklahoma.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that they're the actual same ones.
<v Speaker 1>Maybe my brain's just thinking of the two colors of
<v Speaker 1>hair that and again in Utah, it was barely the
<v Speaker 1>sun coming over, so the black could have just been
<v Speaker 1>because it was silhouated, silhouetted by a sun barely coming up.
<v Speaker 1>I can't actually say that it was black, but it
<v Speaker 1>was dark enough that that's what.
<v Speaker 2>I supposed it to be at fourteen.
<v Speaker 1>Was black black hair, And it's absolute hair, not for Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>once it happens to you, it's always in your mind,
<v Speaker 1>and that's very frustrating to me, and I think one
<v Speaker 1>of the only ways you kind of keep your sanity
<v Speaker 1>about it. It's a whole lot better now because there's
<v Speaker 1>people out there that have seen them and they get it,
<v Speaker 1>so you have more people to talk to but man,
<v Speaker 1>being a teenager fourteen in experiencing this, it was horrific. Man,
<v Speaker 1>it was the most terrifying thing that ever happened in
<v Speaker 1>my life. I didn't ever want to go deer hunting again,
<v Speaker 1>but I was literally forced to every year because my
<v Speaker 1>stepdad would use us, as I call it, a bird dog,
<v Speaker 1>you know, he'd send us out to push game towards them.
<v Speaker 1>But it caught us out of school, and so he
<v Speaker 1>kind of dealt with the fear and you just hoped
<v Speaker 1>you never saw it.
<v Speaker 2>Again, and I never did.
<v Speaker 1>But I'm hyper aware and being a trained military observer,
<v Speaker 1>I can track anything in these rockies. I know every
<v Speaker 1>print looks like I can track a man, you know,
<v Speaker 1>So there's no misidentification. It was no black bear. They
<v Speaker 1>were not bear. That irritates me when people say, oh,
<v Speaker 1>you saw a bear. That's what my stepdad and uncle said.
<v Speaker 2>There was no bear. Bears can't throw.
<v Speaker 3>Did they ever come around and believe that you were
<v Speaker 3>right about what you saw or did you just kind
<v Speaker 3>of drop it with them?
<v Speaker 2>Well?
<v Speaker 1>I didn't see my uncle terry on and off again
<v Speaker 1>like every other year, and they would if I tried
<v Speaker 1>to mention something about it, if we went up towards
<v Speaker 1>around the same area. I was literally terrified to go
<v Speaker 1>back to that same area a Fairview Canyon. You can
<v Speaker 1>even look that up on Google and you'll get an
<v Speaker 1>idea of where I'm talking about the top of a
<v Speaker 1>Fairview Canyon.
<v Speaker 2>You'll see the lake.
<v Speaker 1>And again since the mid seventies, the place has changed.
<v Speaker 1>I ride the Harley up through there during the summer
<v Speaker 1>sometimes in the places, the roads and everything and even
<v Speaker 1>the trees or the quaking aspens. It's totally different today
<v Speaker 1>than it was in the seventies. It was a dirt
<v Speaker 1>road then paved and goes all the way over into
<v Speaker 1>Castledale Canyon.
<v Speaker 2>Or they have a coal mine for what used to
<v Speaker 2>be Utah power in life.
<v Speaker 1>But from them coming to my dreams and stuff, I
<v Speaker 1>always wonder, why me the first time, let alone twice
<v Speaker 1>in two different states, and are they are they connected?
<v Speaker 2>Where they connected? I still wonder that.
<v Speaker 1>I And that's kind of the whole quest, right You
<v Speaker 1>just want to understand, and I just I got no
<v Speaker 1>answers except I know they're real and I know what
<v Speaker 1>I saw. I even had a witness both times. And
<v Speaker 1>I don't understand the whole not wanting to talk to
<v Speaker 1>someone who was your best friend at the time over it,
<v Speaker 1>or a fellow soldier you know, that you served with
<v Speaker 1>for two years every single day.
<v Speaker 2>You know.
<v Speaker 3>I was never in the military, but my family members were,
<v Speaker 3>and one of my best friends went into the army
<v Speaker 3>whenever he was thirty. And I mean those are your brothers, man, right,
<v Speaker 3>you know you're as close to those people as anybody
<v Speaker 3>in your entire life. So yeah, that is really strange,
<v Speaker 3>especially since you know, as you were saying, both of
<v Speaker 3>you had to sign those NDAs the only other person
<v Speaker 3>on the planet to talk to is each other. So yeah,
<v Speaker 3>that is weird.
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, even if we would go out, they had a
<v Speaker 1>hard rock cafe, but it wasn't like the famous hard
<v Speaker 1>rock It was spelled with two exes in Lawton at
<v Speaker 1>the end of Fort Sill Boulevard.
<v Speaker 2>But they would have really good local rock bands there.
<v Speaker 1>And even if we'd be out having a beer, I
<v Speaker 1>try to get him loosened up.
<v Speaker 2>I had to talk to somebody about the shit that
<v Speaker 2>went down. Yeah, I mean, it just wasn't normal.
<v Speaker 1>And like I said, like light speed put together what
<v Speaker 1>happened at fourteen, there was just no other explanation, and
<v Speaker 1>he just Jendricks.
<v Speaker 2>Refused, just refused. He was he was.
<v Speaker 1>He took the terrified side instead of the addictative inquisitives.
<v Speaker 3>Did you ever hear any stories around the base of
<v Speaker 3>any other weird stuff?
<v Speaker 1>As a matter of fact, another guy in my unit
<v Speaker 1>his his whole last name, he was Choctaw. His exact
<v Speaker 1>last name was Holds the enemy, and he would tell
<v Speaker 1>me tribal stories about them all the time. He said,
<v Speaker 1>we don't talk about them on the reds. But if
<v Speaker 1>he if, he if he had a few beers, he
<v Speaker 1>was more than happy. And this was around Mount Scott.
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you're familiar with Mount Scott and Lake Latonka.
<v Speaker 1>It's like a giant pile of rocks to me because
<v Speaker 1>I live in the Rockies. Yeah, you know, so it's
<v Speaker 1>it's not much of a mountain to me. But yeah,
<v Speaker 1>he would have all kinds of stories, like fishing with
<v Speaker 1>his uncles in in on Lake Latonka and they would
<v Speaker 1>have rocks thrown at him from Mount Scott in the boulders.
<v Speaker 4>Wow.
<v Speaker 1>And I tried piecing things together many many years later,
<v Speaker 1>where there's so many encounters of.
<v Speaker 2>Like boulder fields of people.
<v Speaker 1>Disappearing in them and get rocks thrown at them in there.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's so weird around there, man, because you know,
<v Speaker 3>if you if you're anybody who has ever been anywhere
<v Speaker 3>where there's mountains, and then you come to Oklahoma and
<v Speaker 3>you see Mount Scott, it really just looks like some
<v Speaker 3>giant rocks in the middle of a field. But people
<v Speaker 3>go missing there all the time.
<v Speaker 1>Right right, It's like they literally somebody put those boulders there. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>because it's so flat everywhere else, the wildlife refuge everything,
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's just well, you know, it's just fat.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, people go missing there, disappear. Weird stuff, man, Weird
<v Speaker 3>stuff goes on in Oklahoma period. But yeah, the Loton
<v Speaker 3>area is definitely a strange one.
<v Speaker 2>Good it is, well, yeah, and holds the enemy. When
<v Speaker 2>he would get a little liquored up, and.
<v Speaker 1>He made it seem like it was a pretty hush
<v Speaker 1>hush thing that they didn't talk about on the res,
<v Speaker 1>he brought up the fact that they would steal steal women,
<v Speaker 1>is what he said the tribal elders would tell him.
<v Speaker 1>Maybe not in his lifetime, but the stories that go
<v Speaker 1>back and we've all kind of heard them if you
<v Speaker 1>know anything about the subject, how some are like.
<v Speaker 2>Cannibals and some would steal the women and children.
<v Speaker 3>And none of the old stories paint a very happy,
<v Speaker 3>peaceful picture of these things.
<v Speaker 2>No, and.
<v Speaker 1>You know what, I'll tell you something else that I
<v Speaker 1>think personally, I don't think they're an animal.
<v Speaker 2>I think they're another species of maybe not.
<v Speaker 3>You've been hunting your entire life, you know, you're very
<v Speaker 3>familiar with wildlife. Absolutely, whenever you were looking at this thing,
<v Speaker 3>were you looking at an animal or were you looking
<v Speaker 3>at something else that was.
<v Speaker 1>Not an animal? Man, that was not an animal. There's
<v Speaker 1>no way anyone can make me believe that that is
<v Speaker 1>like say, a bobcat or a mule deer. No, there's
<v Speaker 1>intelligence there, there's there's emotions there. It doesn't help the
<v Speaker 1>fact that they look so manlike either.
<v Speaker 2>Oh and this was a man totally.
<v Speaker 3>I don't normally do this, But could you tell me
<v Speaker 3>about your daughter's experience that she believes she had.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she'll go and stay with my son Randon and
<v Speaker 1>his wife. Randon's one of my kids that he laughs,
<v Speaker 1>he just thinks it's a pops pulling.
<v Speaker 2>One over on a story.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how he thinks that his whole freaking life.
<v Speaker 1>But she claims that they were I don't remember where
<v Speaker 1>they were heading. I guess into town because his cabin,
<v Speaker 1>his home that he built, is outside of Homer Homer.
<v Speaker 1>And she claims that one was behind a tree and
<v Speaker 1>it stepped out kind of halfway to the side of
<v Speaker 1>it and looked at him as they passed by, and
<v Speaker 1>she tried to tell Randon and his wife Shelby about it,
<v Speaker 1>and they just kind of laughed at her and said, oh,
<v Speaker 1>you'll have to tell pop. So the next time I
<v Speaker 1>got to talk to her, she just couldn't wait to.
<v Speaker 2>Tell me about it.
<v Speaker 1>And I know they were driving, so they went by
<v Speaker 1>so quick that that's all she got was a brief glimpse.
<v Speaker 2>And she said it was brown because I tried asking her.
<v Speaker 1>About the color of the hair. Yeah, I tried asking her.
<v Speaker 1>And now this was this was probably seven eight years ago,
<v Speaker 1>and she's twenty one now, so she was in her
<v Speaker 1>teensin herself too, and she had no reason to add
<v Speaker 1>of the blue all these years later tell me that
<v Speaker 1>she saw a saucequad.
<v Speaker 3>One of the things that really fascinates me about this mystery.
<v Speaker 3>Whenever you look at other life on this planet. The
<v Speaker 3>only things you find consistently are things that are extremely
<v Speaker 3>great in numbers, very large populations of things. For instance, humans,
<v Speaker 3>you find humans everywhere, there's a lot of humans. You
<v Speaker 3>find birds everywhere, you find deer pretty much everywhere. But
<v Speaker 3>these things are extremely rare. But yet here we're talking
<v Speaker 3>about three different states just during this episode of where
<v Speaker 3>these things are seen. They're seen in virtually everywhere all
<v Speaker 3>over the world.
<v Speaker 2>Right.
<v Speaker 1>Only place I don't think I've ever heard of them
<v Speaker 1>as far as the United States goes that I'm aware
<v Speaker 1>of is Hawaii.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, as far as North America is concerned, I've even
<v Speaker 3>interviewed someone that had a sighting done in Mexico.
<v Speaker 2>Yep ip, I've heard of Mexico too myself.
<v Speaker 3>Actually, these things are everywhere. They live in all different
<v Speaker 3>types of habitats and terrain, and I'm still as lost
<v Speaker 3>as the very first day.
<v Speaker 2>A man.
<v Speaker 1>I've even tried to keep it super super open mind
<v Speaker 1>and consider what they used to call the WU factor.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't want to ignore any possibility on
<v Speaker 1>something I can't figure out right in over forty five years,
<v Speaker 1>how do the tracks even in snow? You can follow
<v Speaker 1>the tracks and then they'll just stop. They don't lead anywhere.
<v Speaker 1>It's almost like.
<v Speaker 2>The thing vanished or was sucked up or something.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I've got no answers. I've got no answer.
<v Speaker 2>I don't either.
<v Speaker 3>I've talked to a lot of people, and the conversations
<v Speaker 3>have run the gambit, right from something that acts typically
<v Speaker 3>like you would believe just large primate of some kind
<v Speaker 3>would act, but then you have other instances where you know,
<v Speaker 3>like you're saying that they are very human, like.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the skunk abe seem like they're more primate. Ron
<v Speaker 1>Moorehead as a friend actually, and we've all heard that
<v Speaker 1>the Alberry ron Morehead tapes. Sure, and then that Navy
<v Speaker 1>crypto linguist Scott Nelson as literally identified speech patterns in it.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, can they all do that? I'm maybe not.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'm again we're all just guessing.
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, I mean that's it. Just all the puzzle
<v Speaker 3>pieces are on the table, we just can't put them together,
<v Speaker 3>and we keep adding new pieces. So it can be rough, man,
<v Speaker 3>it can be rough. What would you like to see
<v Speaker 3>happen though? In your lifetime? Would you like to see
<v Speaker 3>this thing discovered and proven to the world. Should we
<v Speaker 3>leave them alone? What are your thoughts?
<v Speaker 2>Kind of twofold?
<v Speaker 1>I think they should become a recognized species or branch
<v Speaker 1>or tribe, if you will. The Native Americans certainly saw
<v Speaker 1>them as another tribe, and every tribe has a name
<v Speaker 1>for them. Uh, in fact, sasquatches. It's kind of a
<v Speaker 1>bastardized version of a Canadian tribe's word for it. And uh,
<v Speaker 1>what's another one.
<v Speaker 2>Sabe.
<v Speaker 1>H. But I think I would like to see it
<v Speaker 1>recognized by science. Science is supposed to discover things and
<v Speaker 1>prove them.
<v Speaker 2>Right.
<v Speaker 1>When did science lose interest in discovering new forms of
<v Speaker 1>insects or life? Or I think they feel threatened maybe
<v Speaker 1>maybe that's even part of the government thing. Their power
<v Speaker 1>is threatened, their knowledge is threatened by something that is
<v Speaker 1>very much like US an intelligence. Maybe not all of them,
<v Speaker 1>but certainly some of them seem to be capable of
<v Speaker 1>speech patterns and intelligent. Maybe maybe not Einstein like US.
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to see. I'm sure they've been killed
<v Speaker 1>by our government. There's even stories of military killed teams Vietnam.
<v Speaker 1>They call them rock apes, the US soldiers.
<v Speaker 2>It's a gosh.
<v Speaker 1>The Yeti in India I mean, my gosh, they are
<v Speaker 1>everywhere they might be.
<v Speaker 2>I tried to look at it this way.
<v Speaker 1>We got short feet people, we got tall people, we
<v Speaker 1>got round people, we got thin people, they got black, white, brown.
<v Speaker 1>Why would they be any different? Not every dog looks
<v Speaker 1>the same, not every cat looks the same. They all
<v Speaker 1>kind of have a certain specific patterns to their hair
<v Speaker 1>color or.
<v Speaker 2>What have you.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I kind of believe at this point, and like
<v Speaker 3>I say, you know, my opinion can change tomorrow, so
<v Speaker 3>don't hold me to this. But I definitely agree that
<v Speaker 3>there's some type of human at least that's the best
<v Speaker 3>descriptor that we have for what they are at this point,
<v Speaker 3>for lack of a better Yeah, right, maybe not like us,
<v Speaker 3>but not above an animal. If you see humans as
<v Speaker 3>above animals, which I know some people.
<v Speaker 2>Are, are they the so called missing link?
<v Speaker 4>I mean, who knows. But what I do think is that.
<v Speaker 3>I agree that the government definitely is aware of them,
<v Speaker 3>and they definitely, for whatever reason, don't want to admit
<v Speaker 3>to it. And it's not just our government that feels
<v Speaker 3>that way, you know, Like we're talking about there all
<v Speaker 3>over the world, So it's not just the United States
<v Speaker 3>keeping it a secret. And I kind of think, you know,
<v Speaker 3>what would happen. You know, people talk about logging industries
<v Speaker 3>and the spotted owl and the money, but what would
<v Speaker 3>happen if it came out that there's something else that
<v Speaker 3>we share this planet with that's not animal, that's another
<v Speaker 3>type of Yeah, what would that do? I think that
<v Speaker 3>would cause more chaos and turmoil than anything, because you're
<v Speaker 3>going way beyond having to go out and do a
<v Speaker 3>population count for a little spotted owl where you can.
<v Speaker 2>Get there's no one chaining their self to a tree
<v Speaker 2>for that.
<v Speaker 3>Right now, you're talking about like land ownership rights, human rights,
<v Speaker 3>you know, all.
<v Speaker 4>Sorts of thingrights.
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, man, it's a it's a can of worms
<v Speaker 3>for sure.
<v Speaker 1>I mean take Native Americans for example, way back before
<v Speaker 1>we came here, right, they don't have a written language.
<v Speaker 1>It's all a spoken history, you know, so oral history
<v Speaker 1>was very very important to them and to share it
<v Speaker 1>correctly to the next generation. They've known for thousands of years.
<v Speaker 1>We're the latecomers to it, and I don't think they
<v Speaker 1>have any better grasp on it than us, other than
<v Speaker 1>they know it exists.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I would say that's the major key difference right there.
<v Speaker 3>They know it exists and we're still in the dark
<v Speaker 3>on the subject. Well, Mark, I appreciate you coming on
<v Speaker 3>here and sharing your stories with me.
<v Speaker 4>Man.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you'd like those, uh like those pictures of
<v Speaker 1>the prints and the structures, I'll be happy to send
<v Speaker 1>them to you.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, But you have an amazing subject. I appreciate your time.
<v Speaker 3>If you've had an encounter with Bigfoot or something else
<v Speaker 3>you can't explain and you'd like to share your story,
<v Speaker 3>send me an email at Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com.
<v Speaker 3>Check out the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com. You can find
<v Speaker 3>links to social media, past episodes, merchandise, everything you need
<v Speaker 3>all in one place. And until next time, remember there's
<v Speaker 3>something in the woods.