Meg LeDuc: Journey Through Serious Mental Illness:Living Beyond the Diagnosis

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one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome
to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide.
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need to hear these conversations. Thanks for being here today.
I'm talking with writer and journalist Megladuk, someone who doesn't
just talk about mental illness. She's lived it, questioned it,
and found a way to put language to experiences that
are often hard to explain. What makes this conversation different
is that it's not about diagnosis or definitions. It's about
what it actually feels like to be inside your own
mind when things don't quite make sense. The core of
her work is simple but powerful ideas that our stories,
even the ones shaped my pain, are not just something
to survive, but something to understand, to give language to,
and ultimately to share. Thanks for joining us today.
Well, I'm very excited about this.
Yes, I'm looking forward to this as well. If you
would give our listeners a little background on what it
is that you do.
Yeah, I'm a freelance journalist based in Detroit. I've been
doing creative writing for really about twenty two years now.
Ever since undergrad and over the years, I've got a
number of pieces of both journalism and creative writing published,
and right now I'm working on a memoir.
Oh, I think that's great. Now we're going to be
talking about serious mental illness today. Can you give our
listeners a little background on your knowledge as the subject.
Well, my knowledge all comes from lived experience, though I've
done a number of journalism articles surrounding mental health and
disability over the years. Right now I'm contributing to a
Michigan newspaper chain for Issue Media Group for its Michigan
Mental Health series. Well, for that, I'm doing stuff like
research on cmh's community mental health organizations. You're in Michigan,
But my primary knowledge comes from lived experience, and just
over the years, I've gained a lot of insight I
think into living with a serious mental illness.
Now, your lived experiences are your own life's journey. Is
that correct?
Correct? Yes?
I think this is an interesting topic because when most
people think about serious mental illness, they tend to picture
young men, maybe late teens into the twenties. They don't
always think about women in the same way. So have
you experienced that and how do you respond to that
narrative when people don't fully understand that this can affect anyone.
Well, I think people definitely associate with psychosis with men,
and there stereotype is men who become psychotic are violent,
even though so many people with schizophrenia are victimized rather
than the victimizers. It's far more common for people to
be victimized. But yes, I think people don't associate a
history of psychosis with women. Though I've also dealt with
anxiety and depression, and those are definitely associated with women.
I think, Yeah, I can't disagree with you there now.
In the early stages, as we all know, when people
start learning that they have some issues going on, it
can be a very scary journey. It's the unknown. Yeah,
what did it actually feel like to be inside your
own mind during that time trying to make sense of
it all? What was that journey like?
It was a really terrifying process. And I remember telling
a therapist while I was in college, it feels like
there's a hole in my chest and the whole hurts.
That's how intense the depression was. And it started out
as anxiety as a high schooler viral into depression. When
I think I was a freshman in high school, I
stopped showering. I had the greatest roommate. She would tell me, Maggie, smell,
take a shower. She would laugh at me, but yes.
I kind of spiraled down in college and then finally
in my sophomore year, I was becoming suicidal and knew
I needed help. So I saw I was going to
school at the University of Michigan at the time in
ann Arbor, and I just googled their counseling services, Like
I figured a school that big had to have a
counseling service, and I made an appointment and went So.
Once you made that first appointment and you actually got
to see them, what was some of your concerns.
Well, I had a lot of preconceptions. I was very
scared of medication. I thought it would change my personality.
At the same time, I was hoping they'd put me
on something that would be like a magic bullet that
would just make everything better. They gave me a diagnosis
of major depression, which was inaccurate, and they put me
on prozac, which actually made the situation worse. So it
was years and years before I found the right kind
of medication.
There's always that timeframe when you're going from something's not right,
something's wrong, until you have a name for it. Yes,
when they actually came up with the label for it,
did that make things better or did it make things
more complicated? In figuring this out, I think.
It's made it more complicated because my diagnosis has changed
a number of times over the years. It hasn't been steady,
and I think psychiatrists really do diagnose the symptoms that
walk in the door, like the picture you present at
the time. As I've gone from being a really out
of control young woman into growing up to be a
more stable, middle aged woman. Yeah, my diagnosis has evolved
with me in that journey.
What's been harder for you trying to control what you
were going through or learning when to accept it, to
understand it and kind of surrender to it or do
those feel equally challenging in different ways?
I say, definitely accepting it. I have a tremendous strive.
I've always been that way, and in many ways it's
helped me over the years. There was a point where
I was living in a group home. I had spiraled
down into psychosis. My parents couldn't take care of me anymore,
and so they transferred me to a group home for
three months. But I was so determined to leave it,
so determined, and I think my inner drive is the
reason why I'm not still living in a group home.
Since then, I've gone back to volunteered to teach creative
writing at the same group home, and many of the
people I lived with ten years ago are still there,
but I've moved on. I've had both part time and
full time jobs I've earned a masters, I've gotten married.
My life has not stood still. So to get back
to your question, yeah, this inner drive also means it's
very hard to rest and it's very hard to come
to a sense of peace.
You know, a lot of people walk this line where
everything looks fine on the outside. They're high functioning, they're
showing up doing what they need to do, and most
people would never know what they're caring. What did that
look like for you? And underneath all of that when
you were trying to hold it together and appear okay.
There are a lot of layers to making this all
look good for everyone, including yourself. So what was really
going on in the thought processes you had to deal with?
Let me think about that. That's a good question. I
think over the years, it's been so hard to come
to terms with it, and I've definitely wanted to present
a facade. I remember when I first went into counseling
services at the University of Michigan, the social workers said,
you smile even when you're saying something sad. I was
trying to pretend everything was okay, and I think as
I've grown older, I've stopped doing that with key people
I definitely don't do that with my husband. I no
longer do it with my parents, my best friend, and
there was a point where I was even lying to
my therapist, like trying to make her think everything was
good when it wasn't. But I've discovered how vital it
is to be honest with your mental health practitioners.
Relationships add another layer to all of this. When you're
already navigating your own internal world and then you bring
another person into it, there's a bridge that has to
be built in the terms of understanding each other. What
was that like for you? Did it ever create challenges
in being understood or in understanding someone else while you
were still trying to make sense of yourself?
Definitely, though my husband was so wonderful, Maybe about six
months after we met, my current diagnosis at that time
was bipolar one, so he asked me if he could
come to a therapist's appointment with me with my therapist
to ask questions about how he could better support me.
I can't remember exactly when in the relationship that was,
but it was actually early, so he was very much
on board from the beginning. It took me. I think
it was our third date before I told him about
my diagnosis. I both didn't want to conceal something from him,
but at the same time wanted him to get to
know me the real man for a while before mentioning
that diagnosis, And there were other things that I was
honest with him about, but it took me a while.
At one point, my parents had guardianship. I just fell
apart so completely, so it took me a while to
tell Tim about the guardianship. But eventually when it was terminated,
we celebrated by going out for Hamburgers.
In any relationship, there's always that learning curve. You're getting
to know each other, the little quirks, the habits, all
of it. But when you're also dealing with something internal
like this, it can feel like everything is just amplified.
How did that play out for you in your relationships?
How did you find a sense of inner peace within
that where someone could see your struggles, your imperfections and
still meet you there that allowed you to keep building
something special.
I do want to emphasize it's a relationship of equals. Okay,
I do get very tired because of my medication regimen,
so I'd say Tim does more around the house, but
on the other hand, I handle all the cooking, which
I really love. I really love to cook. And I'm
as much there for him as he is for me,
like asking him about his stay, making sure things are
going well for him, just a number of different things
that were a partnership. And he's never condescended to me
about my mind or the trustworthiness of my mind. He
consults my judgment.
Yeah, was there a moment, big or small where things
seemed to shift a little bit, Not where everything felt fixed,
but where something inside you seemed to change and because
of that you saw everything moving in a positive direction.
Actually, I had a tremendous moment like that. It came
in two thy sixteen, and I had hit rock bottom.
I had driven my car a distance away and overdose
two times in a row like separation of two weeks.
I nearly killed myself. And after that, in the hospital,
I asked my mom to bring me my Bible because
I really didn't know where else to turn at that point.
So yeah, I really turned to my faith. That kind
of helped me believe I could change, and I just
determined to completely turn my life around. So yeah, after
too many suicide attempts, to keep track of I haven't
had one in ten years.
I've talked with people who describe having this kind of
inner voice during their hardest moments. Sometimes it feels like
a running dialogue, almost like something talking to them or
guiding their thoughts. Did you experience anything like that, and
if you did, how did that inner voice show up
for you during those difficult times, and how has that
relationship with it changed over time?
Yeah? Actually today I don't hear voices. I might have
heard voices a couple times in my life, but I don't. Currently.
The illness is completely under control. I mean I sometimes
do get odd thoughts, but I managed those. So, yes,
my medication regimen is working very well for me. But yes,
in the midst of my bowtest psychosis in twenty fifteen
twenty sixteen, I had some terrible delusions, really tremendously traumatizing.
It's obviously very traumatizing to believe somebody is trying to
kill you and really really believe it. And there were
a couple times where I thought somebody had poisoned me
and I was going to fall asleep and never wake up.
But yeah, nothing like that in a long time now.
From what you just said, you felt like someone was
trying to harm you.
Yes.
Now you've also mentioned at different times you tried to
commit suicide. Now you had two very different directions, part
of you wanting to disappear in another part of you
trying to hold on and stay safe. Can you explain
your thought process of that.
I think the cruxa it was that who was in
control when I was trying to kill myself. I was
in control, at least I thought.
I wasn't sure that makes sense, But if.
Somebody else was trying to kill me, that was very
scary because then they were doing something to me that
I couldn't control.
That's a great answer. I think that explains everything about
as good as you possibly can. Now I've had the
opportunity to talk to people about their medication regiment. It
seems by the time that they found the correct medication
and got it all under control, they lost a decade.
For most of the people I've spoken with, from the
time that they find point A to point B, they've
lost a decade. Was that a similar situation for you
or did you get from point A to point B
a little sooner?
Actually? No, so I do feel like I lost gosh,
I was sick from nineteen to when I was about
thirty three, Okay, so maybe about fourteen years. And I
do now feel much younger than I actually am. Okay,
like I'm starting to get some gray hairs, Like who
in the world is this person? I feel like I'm
in my early thirties. Yeah, developmentally I might be more
in my early thirties too. I think I was kind
of frozen in time for a while.
I often think about this idea of shame versus truth,
because mental illness can carry a lot of stigma, especially
early on. Was this something you once felt ashamed of
that now you're able to talk about openly, And what
changed for you in the shift from holding it in
to being willing to share it.
Well, for a number of years, I dealt with self harm.
I was tremendously ashamed of that. I tried to hide
it un success, and it kind of took over my
life for a while. It really was an addiction. But
as I've moved away from it and i've stopped, I've
gotten more comfortable speaking about the struggle, maybe because it's
from a place of security and wellness, but I'm no
longer ashamed. It's a very common struggle It's a way
a lot of people deal with their big emotions. It's
a coping tool. I now at least understand why I
was doing it.
This seems to be a gap between help and healing
a lot of people out there are looking for help,
yet they still feel stuck. What did you learn about
getting help and then actually really healing.
I think healing takes a choice number one. It probably
stems from a choice, so it's motivated by yourself. I
think help comes from outside. It's something mental health professionals
and parents and loved one kind of try to impose
from the outside. But healing comes is self motivated.
When you're living with that stigma of mental illness, you
have a position of where you overcome. Then you have
a position of where you manage. How has that become
a part of who you are? How does the definition
of overcoming, managing, and healing overlap each other for you?
It's another good question. I've noticed a lot of people
when I attend a support group, they introduce themselves by saying, Hi,
I'm Meg and I cope with anxiety, or how I'm
Meg and I'm depressed. I try to avoid that, like
I'll say, how I'm meg, I'm married, I have four cats.
This is what I do for a living. Like, I
don't define myself by the illness. It's far from the
most important thing about me. It's a piece of the puzzle,
it's not the entire puzzle. Well, there's so much more
to me than illness. So yeah, I just encourage people
out there to brainstorm, like what's important to you? Introduce
yourself using those other aspects.
Let's say a person is listening to this podcast two
o'clock in the morning, they are failing alone in their
own mind. What would you tell them, not as advice,
just from someone that's been there.
It does get better, it really can. I believe anybody
can turn their life around. But yes, it does come
I think from a personal choice, which is not to
dismiss the power of these illnesses or the fact that
everybody needs support, but ultimately, who is in the driver's seat.
I think for so many years I put other things
in the driver's seat. I put self harm, I put
my illness. I had issues with eating, so I really
put fear and shame in the driver's seat. And then
when I kind of made a decision to get better,
it was doing little things for a long time, even
before they paid off, like going for a walk around
the neighborhood or taking that dose of medication in the morning.
I wasn't seeing them pay off yet, but I had
to have faith they would, and eventually, as I did
that day by day, they eventually did pay off.
When you reflect on your story and your journey of
what you used to think back then it could have
been unbroken. I've got problems. Do you look back now
at some of those things that you thought were broken
and look at it completely different than you did. Has
that perspective changed for you at all?
Yeah? Absolutely, it's actually changed quite dramatically. I'm at peace
with having this illness, and I wouldn't change anything about
the past. I'm okay with the past as it is.
I used to feel tremendous shame around my illness, but
I've gone through an immense amount of suffering. Well, suffering
shapes a person, and it's made the person.
I am okay. So going along with that, if you
was to go back and talk with your earlier self,
knowing your mindset back, then, what would surprise you in
how you're living in today's world.
Well, I've had to modify expectations, like, my life looks
very different than the one I had hoped for when
I was a teenager. On the other hand, I think
it's better than the life I had hoped for. My
mom once said to me, she gives great advice. She
once said something to me along the lines of, I
don't think you would have chosen a person as general
as your husband to marry if you didn't have this illness.
And I think that's true, and he's the right person
for me.
In conversations I have where we talk about serious mental
illness and other forms of mental illness, the word strength
always comes up in her strength out of strength, strength
to get through things. What does strength look like when
you're in the middle of a crisis, not after it?
Oh wow, I guess get through minute by minute? Okay,
it really is minute by minute. Yeah, And minutes grow
into half an hour, an hour, and suddenly you've been
alive for another twenty four hours, which is good.
Yeah.
So yeah, just get through minute by minute. One time,
somebody said to me, Meg, sometimes the best thing to
do is to do nothing. And I think she said
that to me because I was so impulsive and many
people in the throes of a crisis are impulsive, so
maybe sometimes just take some deep brass and do nothing.
Was there a moment, whether it be talking with someone
or in any essays that you might have done with
your publications, where you finally felt like, hey, I'm being
seen here. They're not just seeing you, but now they're
starting to understand you.
I think that's been the project of the book I'm
working on.
Okay, all right.
I really want people to read my story, okay, And
it's very healing when they see it as a whole
arc with a beginning and an ending. And also the
writing can get across experiences and ways I can't. Actually,
my therapist is reading it. She's going above and beyond,
and I deeply appreciate that. I think it makes her
a better therapist.
You know a lot of therapists come from a strong
educational background. They've studied it, they understand it from a
clinical perspective, but there's always something different about lived experience.
Over the years, have you noticed a difference between providers
who are more textbook based versus those who seem to
really understand it on a deeper, more human level. How
did that impact the kind of guidance and support that
you received.
Yeah, some people understand where I'm coming from much better
than others. There were therapists who told me I should
make peace with living in the group home. It was
a good place to be at the time, but yet
I needed to move on. So there were times when
I needed to move forward and therapists weren't as supportive
as I want them to be.
So do you have people that reach out to you
and tell you their stories? Is that part of your
writing as well?
Actually, usually I go out and find them, But if
anybody wants to find me, that's okay too.
Okay, how do they find you?
Well, I do have a website. I have a portfolio website,
and there's a contact page, and then I've also been
writing for Psychology Today, and I believe there's a contact
link on my articles.
Yeah, that's great. Now, is there one last thing that
you would like to tell our audience that would give
them a little more knowledge on the perception they have
in what they think it is to what it actually
is in reality.
People get very scared when you start talking about psychosis,
and they think it's a death sentence. There are no
words for how traumatizing it is, But on the other hand,
it's not a death sentence. People with the illness can
and do recover. The stigma is so intense. I don't
think people understand one how traumatizing it is, but two
there are ways to manage the trauma and recover.
True. Well, I've really enjoyed this very interesting, very informative.
I really appreciate you taking the time. Did you join
us today?
No problem? This was great, Thanks so much, Tony, It's.
Been my pleasure. Thanks again, A big thank you to
our guest for sharing their journey. If today's conversation helped
you see the world a little differently, then we're doing
exactly what we hope to do. Until next time, keep believing,
keep learning, and most importantly, keep asking yourself, why not Me?
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