249 | Permission-Seeking and Negative Self-Talk: Staying Neutral in the Child-Centered Playroom

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Anna in Virginia.

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Thank you so much for the email,

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Anna.

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And her question is about a specific client.

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He is pretty new to the process and has

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been saying and doing things in the playroom that

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she'd just like a little bit of insight and perspective on.

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So

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I will read parts of the email and we'll dive in together,

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but just a reminder.

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We are doing the live event on January 3rd at 2 p.m. Eastern.

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Please sign up so that we know how many are coming and the Zoom

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call will max out after a certain number of registrants.

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So I just want to make sure that we're able to monitor

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how many will be there and what we need to do to adjust for numbers.

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So in the show notes,

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you can click on that link and we're gonna be talking about impact and doing some

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Q&A and I'll give you a link to a workshop that I did in Australia.

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So that's gonna be a lot of fun.

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Looking forward to it.

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OK,

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so let me read parts of Anna's email and then we'll dive in.

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I graduated in May with my master's in mental health counseling.

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I have the same background

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and I'm now working in a school setting.

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I took a play therapy class in grad school and liked it

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and worked with kids in an in-home setting during my practicum,

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but I was directive in my approaches then.

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I didn't think I would be working with kids again

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but found myself in this opportunity.

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I am fully CCPT.

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Huge high five,

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Anna in Virginia.

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I'm so happy about that.

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Another convert y'all.

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I,

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I need a bell.

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Is that crazy?

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I wanna ring a bell when I know someone converted to CCPT.

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I feel like there needs to be some

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symbol to celebrate.

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OK,

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anyway,

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I'm fully CCPT and have enjoyed getting to learn more through your podcast.

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My questions are about a situation that happened with a particular client.

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He said lots of things that caught me off guard,

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and while I reflected what he was doing,

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I know I missed opportunities to reflect feeling or content accurately.

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In a few of our sessions,

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he has brought up assumptions about me.

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For instance,

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he said,

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I bet you're thinking.

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Why is he messing all the toys up?

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And other things that start with,

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I bet you're thinking.

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I don't know how to reflect content with things that are flipped towards me.

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Ah,

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really interesting scenario.

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I'm so glad you brought that up,

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Anna.

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OK,

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continuing.

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In another situation,

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he saw the water tray and said,

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I wish I could put water in it.

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And I said,

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You want to put water in it?

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And he asked for permission,

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and I would reflect that he was in charge,

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and that was what he wanted to do,

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but he kept asking me,

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so we kept going back and forth until he decided to put water in it.

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We've all been there.

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He was playing in the water tray and some water got out.

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He said,

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That's what I get for doing something I wasn't supposed to do.

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Whew,

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this kid,

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man,

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I'd love to watch a session of him.

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And so he got paper towels to clean it up.

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He knows that he's in charge,

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and I reiterated to him that he can make a mess,

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and it's my job to clean up.

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He grabbed the rest of the paper towels that were there and was cleaning up the water,

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and then he realized that he had a large amount of paper towels,

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and he said,

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I'm stupid.

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I took the rest of the paper towels.

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Whew,

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I kept tracking what he was doing,

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but it caught me off guard to hear that I'm stupid and that

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that's what I get for doing something I wasn't supposed to do.

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I'm wondering how to reflect feeling or content in these instances where children

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say negative things about themselves or things that catch you off guard.

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Since I'm in a school,

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I think it's hard for the kids to realize that

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my room is different than the rest of the school.

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Yes,

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absolutely,

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even if I reiterate that they are in charge and they get to decide what to do.

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All right,

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thank you,

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Anna.

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I'm excited about this.

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So let's start with the first piece of this.

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So I kind of break this down into three chunks of your question,

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if you will.

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So the first one,

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he brought up assumptions about you.

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So I bet you're thinking,

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why is he messing all the toys up and other things that start with,

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I bet you're thinking.

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And you don't know how to reflect content with things that are flipped toward you.

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OK.

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Well,

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let's start with,

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you're not sure what to say.

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I'll give you a really simple

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process there.

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Oh,

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you're thinking.

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So OK,

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let me,

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my brain went too many directions once.

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When a child says something that is not true.

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And this will happen frequently.

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They make accusations,

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they

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make judgments,

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they say,

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you know,

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you're blah blah blah blah blah,

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or other kids or toys or whatever.

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So whenever they say something and it is truly

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what they think or believe or feel,

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but you do not want to confirm or deny.

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It's really helpful to just say,

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oh,

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you think.

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Then you're not saying that you agree.

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You're making it very clear,

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you're just acknowledging that that's what the child thinks.

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So in that scenario,

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oh,

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you think I'm upset that you're messing up all the toys.

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Or you think I'm wondering

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why you're making a mess.

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And here's what that does.

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It reflects content.

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It acknowledges that you are meeting the child where they are.

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But you are not giving any indication whether it's true or not true.

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It's completely neutral.

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And let's now dig a little deeper here because that was 101.

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Let's go to like 301.

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Why is the child saying,

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I bet you're thinking,

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why is he messing the toys up?

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Pop quiz.

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Shout them out to me.

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Oh,

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I love this.

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I really wish,

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I,

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I truly wish that I could be a fly on the

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wall when every single one of you listen to my podcast.

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I would love to watch and witness when I pop quiz and

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when I say random things like what you shout back at me.

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Anyway,

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I,

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I envision it in my head,

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but I really would like to witness it firsthand.

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OK,

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I hope that most of you said

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super,

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super high levels of anxiety and people pleasing.

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And if you didn't,

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You'll get there one day.

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Keep listening.

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All right,

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because I bet you're thinking,

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why is he messing all the toys up?

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He's worried he's gonna get in trouble.

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He's worried he's doing something he's not supposed to do.

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He doesn't feel the freedom to do what he actually wants to do.

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He's trying to make sure that you're not upset.

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There's a people pleasing,

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there's an anxiety.

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I mean,

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gosh,

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this little guy is wracked with this.

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OK.

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So that's the why.

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Which is why our neutrality is so important in our response.

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Because if we say,

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oh,

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you're thinking that I'm wondering why you're messing the toys up,

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but

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you,

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you know,

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you're in charge when you're in here.

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Now all of a sudden the child goes,

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oh.

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OK,

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well,

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that wasn't a big deal at all.

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It's freedom,

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it's autonomy,

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it's reduction of inhibitions.

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I think he probably is so careful everywhere,

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so rigidly adherent to rules and limits,

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high levels of anxiety,

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high levels of people pleasing.

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I'm gonna argue he's an oldest.

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I don't know,

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it's just my gut or he's role reversed with an oldest.

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And he's consumed with having to be good.

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So,

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but by the fact that he's playing with things,

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and it's probably early on,

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I'm guessing,

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and so therefore there's still the honeymoon phase

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as a factor here.

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So now all of a sudden he's going,

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oh well,

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I don't want her to get mad at me,

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and I don't want her to think that I'm making a mess.

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And what if

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I walk out of here and she goes,

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Oh my gosh,

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that kid is so disrespectful.

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He made such a mess in here.

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All right,

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so what if,

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what if,

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what if?

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Consumption of anxiety,

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people pleasing.

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All right,

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so let's move to the second part.

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So he says,

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I wish that I could put water in the tray.

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You want to put water in it.

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And then he asks for permission.

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OK,

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permission seeking,

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people pleasing,

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anxiety.

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Here's another tie in.

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We see it even in this next option here.

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So now he's moved on to the sand

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and he's begging for permission

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because God forbid he does something that he's not supposed to do.

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And

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early on,

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we're not going to enlarge that,

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but later in the process,

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we would absolutely enlarge that.

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But for now,

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what you said is really appropriate.

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Oh,

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you're,

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you're wanting to put water in there.

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Now,

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here's

276
00:08:13,279 --> 00:08:14,010
the

277
00:08:15,170 --> 00:08:17,290
Caveat maybe the disclaimer.

278
00:08:18,739 --> 00:08:22,130
If all you say is you want to put water in it.

279
00:08:23,619 --> 00:08:25,519
That doesn't address the fact that he says,

280
00:08:25,619 --> 00:08:26,649
I wish I could.

281
00:08:28,940 --> 00:08:31,130
If he asked you if he could put water in it.

282
00:08:31,779 --> 00:08:33,770
And you said you wanna to put water in it,

283
00:08:33,929 --> 00:08:35,359
that would be really appropriate.

284
00:08:35,808 --> 00:08:37,210
I wish I could.

285
00:08:38,109 --> 00:08:39,068
is different.

286
00:08:39,379 --> 00:08:40,278
So in that scenario,

287
00:08:40,379 --> 00:08:41,207
we would say,

288
00:08:41,539 --> 00:08:41,929
oh,

289
00:08:41,938 --> 00:08:43,499
you'd really like to put water in there,

290
00:08:43,539 --> 00:08:45,049
but you know that you're in charge.

291
00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:47,580
OK,

292
00:08:47,940 --> 00:08:48,929
so now,

293
00:08:49,140 --> 00:08:49,640
when he says,

294
00:08:49,700 --> 00:08:50,489
I wish,

295
00:08:50,710 --> 00:08:50,989
remember,

296
00:08:51,260 --> 00:08:52,780
kids let us know what their needs,

297
00:08:53,020 --> 00:08:53,690
their desires,

298
00:08:53,739 --> 00:08:54,340
their wishes,

299
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:55,830
their feelings are in their play.

300
00:08:56,630 --> 00:08:58,340
This is a desire he's expressing.

301
00:08:58,549 --> 00:09:00,179
I wish that I could do this.

302
00:09:00,789 --> 00:09:01,989
He's not asking you if you can.

303
00:09:02,030 --> 00:09:03,729
He's telling you that he wishes he could.

304
00:09:04,909 --> 00:09:05,289
Oh,

305
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:06,820
you wish that you could put water in there,

306
00:09:06,859 --> 00:09:08,570
but you know you're in charge when you're in here.

307
00:09:09,940 --> 00:09:15,010
We couple that together as a hybrid because just saying you wanna put water in it,

308
00:09:15,140 --> 00:09:15,940
that's why he goes,

309
00:09:16,059 --> 00:09:16,929
so can I?

310
00:09:17,500 --> 00:09:18,450
Am I allowed to?

311
00:09:18,739 --> 00:09:19,090
Well,

312
00:09:19,219 --> 00:09:20,030
is it OK?

313
00:09:20,650 --> 00:09:21,700
It is water,

314
00:09:21,820 --> 00:09:22,739
can I put water in here?

315
00:09:22,820 --> 00:09:23,909
Because I'm not really sure.

316
00:09:24,260 --> 00:09:26,530
There's so many questions that still linger

317
00:09:27,020 --> 00:09:27,729
until you say,

318
00:09:27,820 --> 00:09:29,460
but you know you're in charge in here.

319
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:31,039
All right,

320
00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:32,150
so then you said,

321
00:09:32,159 --> 00:09:35,229
I reflected he was in charge and that was what he wanted to do.

322
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:36,549
He kept asking.

323
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:37,159
OK,

324
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,549
so he's not satisfied because you haven't been concrete enough.

325
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,679
Anxious kids do not like ambiguity.

326
00:09:44,309 --> 00:09:45,280
He is

327
00:09:45,770 --> 00:09:48,700
needing the black and white and you're living in gray right now.

328
00:09:49,010 --> 00:09:51,210
That's why he continues to ask for permission.

329
00:09:52,270 --> 00:09:53,969
So it's really important to say,

330
00:09:54,229 --> 00:09:54,880
hmm,

331
00:09:54,989 --> 00:09:57,109
you're concerned that if you put water in there,

332
00:09:57,190 --> 00:09:58,190
you're not allowed to,

333
00:09:58,349 --> 00:09:59,859
but you're in charge when you're in here.

334
00:10:00,780 --> 00:10:02,950
So now we don't reflect that

335
00:10:03,119 --> 00:10:04,440
he wants to put water in there,

336
00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,039
we reflect that he's concerned he's going to get in trouble.

337
00:10:07,929 --> 00:10:09,440
See how we take it to the next level.

338
00:10:09,570 --> 00:10:12,200
If they're not satisfied with the reflection of content,

339
00:10:12,330 --> 00:10:13,849
then we go a little bit further.

340
00:10:14,989 --> 00:10:15,419
Oh,

341
00:10:15,460 --> 00:10:16,969
you're concerned that you might get in trouble,

342
00:10:17,059 --> 00:10:18,289
but you're in charge when you're in here.

343
00:10:18,299 --> 00:10:19,500
You get to decide what you do.

344
00:10:21,049 --> 00:10:22,989
That's kind of how we get around that.

345
00:10:23,289 --> 00:10:23,919
So then.

346
00:10:24,770 --> 00:10:26,049
You went back and forth

347
00:10:26,380 --> 00:10:27,820
until he decided to put water in it.

348
00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:28,340
OK.

349
00:10:28,580 --> 00:10:30,380
So that's a really important point.

350
00:10:30,460 --> 00:10:30,549
Now,

351
00:10:30,580 --> 00:10:32,020
you didn't share whether you did or not,

352
00:10:32,099 --> 00:10:32,770
so I don't know,

353
00:10:32,780 --> 00:10:33,059
Anna,

354
00:10:33,099 --> 00:10:34,039
how you handled that.

355
00:10:34,260 --> 00:10:35,450
But at that moment,

356
00:10:35,739 --> 00:10:37,289
I hope that you said,

357
00:10:37,739 --> 00:10:38,059
oh,

358
00:10:38,219 --> 00:10:39,659
you realize that you're in charge,

359
00:10:39,719 --> 00:10:41,289
so you chose to put water in there.

360
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:43,000
All right,

361
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,309
that's a really powerful declaration

362
00:10:45,650 --> 00:10:47,200
because you realized you're in charge,

363
00:10:47,239 --> 00:10:49,349
it reinforces his autonomy and freedom,

364
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,669
and you chose to put water in there.

365
00:10:52,349 --> 00:10:53,369
It was a choice.

366
00:10:54,330 --> 00:10:57,200
So I hope that you said something along those lines there.

367
00:10:57,530 --> 00:11:00,159
So now he's playing with the water in the

368
00:11:00,289 --> 00:11:02,359
tray and some of the water gets out,

369
00:11:02,570 --> 00:11:05,570
and he says that's what I get for doing something I wasn't supposed to do.

370
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:07,510
All right,

371
00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:10,830
this is back to the guilt and the shame and the blame

372
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,070
because he's anxious and he thinks that he just displeased you,

373
00:11:15,239 --> 00:11:17,159
or he thinks that he did something wrong or

374
00:11:17,159 --> 00:11:18,830
he thinks that he's going to get in trouble.

375
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:20,590
So that you can,

376
00:11:20,599 --> 00:11:24,169
I hope that you can see all of these are woven together here with the same thread.

377
00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:26,250
So when he says that,

378
00:11:26,330 --> 00:11:28,760
that's what I get for doing something I wasn't supposed to do.

379
00:11:29,580 --> 00:11:29,700
I,

380
00:11:29,729 --> 00:11:32,820
I hope to be fully adherent to CCPT.

381
00:11:33,130 --> 00:11:34,909
My prayer is that you said,

382
00:11:35,219 --> 00:11:35,520
oh,

383
00:11:35,849 --> 00:11:36,969
sometimes accidents happen.

384
00:11:38,330 --> 00:11:41,140
That is always absolute on purpose,

385
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:42,099
our go to

386
00:11:42,549 --> 00:11:44,909
when something happens and the child is

387
00:11:44,909 --> 00:11:46,260
concerned that they're gonna get in trouble.

388
00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:48,390
If it was truly an accident.

389
00:11:48,510 --> 00:11:48,909
Obviously,

390
00:11:49,059 --> 00:11:51,080
if it was purposeful and it needs a limit,

391
00:11:51,150 --> 00:11:52,460
that's a whole other podcast.

392
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:53,630
But in this scenario,

393
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:55,140
some of the water spilled out.

394
00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:56,039
So,

395
00:11:56,510 --> 00:11:56,669
oh,

396
00:11:56,849 --> 00:11:57,789
some of the water spilled out,

397
00:11:57,869 --> 00:11:58,900
but accidents happen.

398
00:11:59,750 --> 00:12:00,020
All right,

399
00:12:00,140 --> 00:12:01,119
so that is the,

400
00:12:01,140 --> 00:12:01,500
hey.

401
00:12:02,260 --> 00:12:03,309
I'm neutral.

402
00:12:03,599 --> 00:12:04,989
There's no consequence.

403
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:06,390
You're in charge.

404
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:08,270
You didn't do it on purpose.

405
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,690
We just accept and move on,

406
00:12:11,140 --> 00:12:11,659
OK?

407
00:12:11,979 --> 00:12:12,409
Now,

408
00:12:12,979 --> 00:12:15,849
what we want to reflect in the way of content is,

409
00:12:16,070 --> 00:12:16,940
hmm.

410
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,119
You're frustrated that some of the water spilled and you

411
00:12:20,119 --> 00:12:22,270
think that you weren't supposed to put water in there,

412
00:12:22,599 --> 00:12:24,789
but you chose to do that because you're in charge.

413
00:12:26,799 --> 00:12:29,440
So we're coming back to what we've already reflected,

414
00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:30,190
which was,

415
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:31,710
you know you're in charge,

416
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:33,270
and you chose to do that.

417
00:12:34,450 --> 00:12:36,880
It was not something that he wasn't supposed to do,

418
00:12:37,010 --> 00:12:39,090
but we're not going to argue with his feelings.

419
00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:41,979
That's a very fine line,

420
00:12:42,099 --> 00:12:43,239
be really careful

421
00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:45,260
to be fully CCPT.

422
00:12:46,390 --> 00:12:49,820
We would not want to contradict or argue with what he says,

423
00:12:49,989 --> 00:12:51,909
even though everything in us wants to do that.

424
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,299
You were able to do that.

425
00:12:55,380 --> 00:12:57,210
That's not something you weren't supposed to do.

426
00:12:57,460 --> 00:12:59,210
Lots of therapists would say that right there.

427
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:01,869
But that's not CCPT.

428
00:13:02,739 --> 00:13:03,270
So,

429
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:03,989
mm,

430
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,359
you're frustrated some of the water spilled and you

431
00:13:06,359 --> 00:13:08,030
think you weren't supposed to put water in there,

432
00:13:08,070 --> 00:13:10,789
but you chose to put water because you know you're in charge.

433
00:13:12,059 --> 00:13:13,219
That's CCPT.

434
00:13:14,479 --> 00:13:14,960
OK.

435
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,309
And then he gets the paper towels to clean it up.

436
00:13:18,349 --> 00:13:21,820
Because he's a highly anxious people pleasing perfectionistic child.

437
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:23,260
There's the threat again.

438
00:13:23,950 --> 00:13:24,710
And

439
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:25,580
you said,

440
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,960
I reiterated to him that he can make a mess.

441
00:13:28,070 --> 00:13:28,309
All right,

442
00:13:28,429 --> 00:13:29,950
I don't know if those were your words,

443
00:13:30,070 --> 00:13:31,320
but just in case they were,

444
00:13:31,460 --> 00:13:32,039
let me

445
00:13:32,309 --> 00:13:33,500
give a minor tweak.

446
00:13:34,409 --> 00:13:36,239
We have to be really careful

447
00:13:36,489 --> 00:13:39,000
that we don't say you can do anything

448
00:13:39,489 --> 00:13:40,130
in the playroom.

449
00:13:41,059 --> 00:13:42,380
You can make a mess.

450
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:43,770
That's permission giving.

451
00:13:44,789 --> 00:13:47,469
And that puts us in a position of authority and control,

452
00:13:47,780 --> 00:13:49,419
and that's not the dynamic that we want.

453
00:13:50,409 --> 00:13:52,179
So you're in charge,

454
00:13:52,590 --> 00:13:55,380
or it's your job to play and it's my job to clean,

455
00:13:55,909 --> 00:13:56,380
or

456
00:13:56,869 --> 00:13:59,299
sometimes accidents happen and it's my job to clean up.

457
00:13:59,669 --> 00:14:01,229
Those are all things we would say there,

458
00:14:01,270 --> 00:14:01,630
and I'm,

459
00:14:01,710 --> 00:14:03,549
I don't know whether or not those were the words that

460
00:14:03,549 --> 00:14:05,210
you used or just what you wrote in the email,

461
00:14:05,270 --> 00:14:07,020
but just for everyone's sake,

462
00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:10,940
be really careful with saying things like you can do that or you can't do that,

463
00:14:10,950 --> 00:14:12,659
or that's not neutral,

464
00:14:12,869 --> 00:14:13,979
and it's not adherent.

465
00:14:14,190 --> 00:14:14,780
So just

466
00:14:14,909 --> 00:14:15,989
PSA on that one.

467
00:14:16,229 --> 00:14:16,469
OK,

468
00:14:16,590 --> 00:14:18,090
so then he starts to clean it up.

469
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:18,780
Of course he does,

470
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:19,219
right?

471
00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:21,450
And then says,

472
00:14:21,859 --> 00:14:22,039
oh,

473
00:14:22,179 --> 00:14:22,780
I'm stupid.

474
00:14:22,820 --> 00:14:24,580
I took the rest of the paper towels.

475
00:14:25,859 --> 00:14:27,609
Now we're finally

476
00:14:27,859 --> 00:14:29,489
at the heart of what's going on.

477
00:14:29,979 --> 00:14:32,099
This kid has low self-esteem.

478
00:14:34,460 --> 00:14:38,780
And because he has such low self-esteem and such high levels of anxiety,

479
00:14:39,150 --> 00:14:40,400
he is consumed

480
00:14:40,630 --> 00:14:42,539
with doing the right thing,

481
00:14:42,830 --> 00:14:44,059
and any

482
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:48,359
sense that he gets that he failed at something means he is a failure.

483
00:14:49,030 --> 00:14:49,789
It's not,

484
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:50,409
oh,

485
00:14:50,559 --> 00:14:51,289
I failed,

486
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:51,619
oh,

487
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,190
that didn't go how I wanted.

488
00:14:53,359 --> 00:14:53,719
Oops,

489
00:14:53,799 --> 00:14:54,590
that was a mistake.

490
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:55,919
It's I am bad,

491
00:14:56,039 --> 00:14:56,950
I am a failure,

492
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:57,809
I'm stupid,

493
00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:58,640
I'm an idiot.

494
00:14:59,869 --> 00:15:01,109
Natural progression

495
00:15:01,349 --> 00:15:03,380
for a highly anxious low self-esteem child.

496
00:15:04,859 --> 00:15:05,390
So he says,

497
00:15:05,450 --> 00:15:06,190
I'm stupid.

498
00:15:06,260 --> 00:15:08,000
I took the rest of the paper towels.

499
00:15:08,989 --> 00:15:09,200
All right,

500
00:15:09,340 --> 00:15:12,619
so then you said it got caught me off guard to hear that I'm stupid.

501
00:15:12,770 --> 00:15:14,789
I'm wondering how to reflect content and feeling in

502
00:15:14,789 --> 00:15:17,530
these instances where children say negative things about themselves.

503
00:15:17,869 --> 00:15:18,070
All right.

504
00:15:18,830 --> 00:15:19,890
It's a struggle

505
00:15:20,070 --> 00:15:21,059
and it's real,

506
00:15:21,309 --> 00:15:23,059
but it is our job to stay neutral.

507
00:15:24,260 --> 00:15:25,049
We

508
00:15:25,239 --> 00:15:27,159
convey 5 be with attitudes,

509
00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:29,210
which are shout them out.

510
00:15:30,330 --> 00:15:30,640
Yes,

511
00:15:30,820 --> 00:15:31,330
thank you.

512
00:15:31,539 --> 00:15:31,849
I'm here,

513
00:15:31,940 --> 00:15:32,349
I hear you.

514
00:15:32,380 --> 00:15:32,820
I understand,

515
00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:34,409
I care and I delight in you.

516
00:15:34,739 --> 00:15:35,530
However,

517
00:15:36,020 --> 00:15:38,099
there are 3 things that we do not convey,

518
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,530
even when we convey with the be with attitudes.

519
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,330
And one of them is,

520
00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:44,020
I will not solve your problems.

521
00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:48,520
So this is not a moment where we're trying to solve the problem for him.

522
00:15:48,609 --> 00:15:50,859
The problem is that he feels really

523
00:15:51,090 --> 00:15:52,239
crappy about himself,

524
00:15:52,690 --> 00:15:54,520
and he's blaming himself for something

525
00:15:54,729 --> 00:15:57,159
and his self dialogue is really

526
00:15:57,450 --> 00:15:57,969
pretty

527
00:15:58,250 --> 00:15:58,919
nasty.

528
00:15:59,869 --> 00:16:02,880
And we want to swoop in and say that's not true,

529
00:16:03,130 --> 00:16:03,919
and no,

530
00:16:04,539 --> 00:16:04,909
OK,

531
00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:06,000
that's not our job.

532
00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:07,859
So in that moment,

533
00:16:08,049 --> 00:16:08,729
we say,

534
00:16:09,049 --> 00:16:09,780
hm

535
00:16:10,099 --> 00:16:12,140
you used up the rest of the paper towels and

536
00:16:12,140 --> 00:16:14,580
you think that you're stupid because there aren't any more.

537
00:16:16,380 --> 00:16:17,530
That's all we say,

538
00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:18,859
and it's hard y'all.

539
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:20,419
But

540
00:16:20,599 --> 00:16:22,109
here's why we don't go,

541
00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:23,219
but

542
00:16:24,669 --> 00:16:26,539
We sit in the pocket of the feeling.

543
00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:29,280
We reflect the feeling.

544
00:16:30,419 --> 00:16:31,969
And we wait for the child

545
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,400
to regulate and get themselves out of that situation.

546
00:16:37,219 --> 00:16:38,369
That is ownership,

547
00:16:38,539 --> 00:16:39,929
that is responsibility,

548
00:16:40,179 --> 00:16:41,210
that is regulation,

549
00:16:41,219 --> 00:16:42,289
that is control.

550
00:16:43,659 --> 00:16:47,169
If they sit in it long enough and no one rescues them,

551
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,570
they figure out how to get themselves out of it.

552
00:16:50,309 --> 00:16:52,599
They start to say more positive things about themselves,

553
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,229
they start to believe in themselves more,

554
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:55,869
they start to problem solve more,

555
00:16:56,039 --> 00:16:57,270
they start to figure things out.

556
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:57,630
Why?

557
00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,190
Because no one's going to do it for them.

558
00:17:00,309 --> 00:17:01,109
So we say,

559
00:17:01,390 --> 00:17:01,530
oh,

560
00:17:01,590 --> 00:17:03,390
you realized you used the rest of those paper

561
00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:05,750
towels and you feel stupid for using so many.

562
00:17:08,550 --> 00:17:09,709
And we just wait

563
00:17:09,959 --> 00:17:14,160
and we sit there as awkward and awful and uncomfortable as it is,

564
00:17:14,239 --> 00:17:14,910
we sit there,

565
00:17:14,959 --> 00:17:15,699
why?

566
00:17:16,050 --> 00:17:16,880
Because over time,

567
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,199
the child's gonna go,

568
00:17:18,709 --> 00:17:18,790
well,

569
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:19,160
that's all right,

570
00:17:19,239 --> 00:17:20,348
you can always get more.

571
00:17:21,420 --> 00:17:23,530
And we do internal backflips,

572
00:17:23,810 --> 00:17:26,689
even though on the outside we're very composed and calm.

573
00:17:26,930 --> 00:17:28,209
We're doing internal backflips,

574
00:17:28,290 --> 00:17:28,760
why?

575
00:17:29,189 --> 00:17:30,319
Because the child said,

576
00:17:30,589 --> 00:17:30,770
uh,

577
00:17:30,890 --> 00:17:31,199
whatever,

578
00:17:31,290 --> 00:17:31,959
no big deal.

579
00:17:32,670 --> 00:17:33,760
I'm not stupid.

580
00:17:34,050 --> 00:17:34,619
that who,

581
00:17:34,650 --> 00:17:35,310
who cares?

582
00:17:35,369 --> 00:17:36,560
There's more paper towels.

583
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,989
And that's the moment where we know that the child has grown.

584
00:17:43,109 --> 00:17:45,030
So we do not swoop in and rescue.

585
00:17:45,069 --> 00:17:45,660
It's really,

586
00:17:45,709 --> 00:17:47,270
really hard not to do,

587
00:17:47,349 --> 00:17:48,540
but it is necessary

588
00:17:48,869 --> 00:17:50,349
because that is how the child learns.

589
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:51,699
All right,

590
00:17:51,810 --> 00:17:52,540
and I agree with you,

591
00:17:52,579 --> 00:17:52,859
Anna,

592
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:55,729
you said it's hard for the kids to realize that your room is different,

593
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:57,849
and that will take time,

594
00:17:58,060 --> 00:17:59,930
but if you stay fully adherent

595
00:18:00,180 --> 00:18:03,209
and you constantly remind them and return responsibility

596
00:18:03,449 --> 00:18:05,349
and give them all of the autonomy,

597
00:18:05,619 --> 00:18:07,489
they will figure out that

598
00:18:07,699 --> 00:18:08,329
there's

599
00:18:08,579 --> 00:18:10,859
a special nature to the playroom and that's what we want.

600
00:18:10,939 --> 00:18:12,729
That's true in any environment.

601
00:18:13,219 --> 00:18:15,619
A kid comes into a child-centered playroom and they know

602
00:18:15,619 --> 00:18:17,660
that it's different and they know that it's special.

603
00:18:18,219 --> 00:18:19,479
And that's the goal.

604
00:18:19,609 --> 00:18:24,719
So we adhere so that the child constantly feels that sense of permissiveness

605
00:18:25,010 --> 00:18:26,760
that the child-centered playroom affords.

606
00:18:27,449 --> 00:18:28,290
Anna from Virginia,

607
00:18:28,369 --> 00:18:29,729
thank you so much for the email.

608
00:18:29,770 --> 00:18:30,760
I really appreciate it.

609
00:18:30,969 --> 00:18:34,520
If you would like to send me an email or have me answer a question,

610
00:18:34,810 --> 00:18:38,130
please email me brenna@thekidcounselor.com or if you're in the states,

611
00:18:38,170 --> 00:18:41,609
you can call 813-812-5525

612
00:18:41,810 --> 00:18:44,930
and leave a message and I'll answer your question from the voicemail.

613
00:18:45,530 --> 00:18:45,689
All right,

614
00:18:45,729 --> 00:18:46,010
y'all,

615
00:18:46,099 --> 00:18:46,569
I love you.

616
00:18:46,729 --> 00:18:47,250
Happy New Year.

617
00:18:47,329 --> 00:18:48,130
We'll talk again soon.

618
00:18:48,329 --> 00:18:48,489
Bye.

619
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,439
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

620
00:18:52,599 --> 00:18:53,520
Brenna Hicks.

621
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,640
For more episodes and resources,

622
00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:00,520
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.