298 | They Promised No Court—Then Sent a Subpoena: What Now? - Court and Legal Policy in CCPT

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get a master class in

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child-centered play therapy and practical support and application for your work.

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For children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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we are talking through a question

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about when we've made it clear to parents that we will not be involved in court,

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and then we end up

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later on in the process

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being roped into legal stuff.

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And this is from Lujaina in Texas,

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so thank you so much for this question.

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And

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as much as we try to avoid going to court,

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sometimes we can't avoid it,

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but when we specifically indicate and make it very clear that

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that's not our role,

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that's not where we're going to be involved,

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and then they try

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to contrive the circumstances so that we end up there anyway

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and how we handle that with parents and how that makes us feel.

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And all those things.

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So I really appreciate this question Louiana.

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Thank you for emailing.

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So I'm going to read parts of this and then we'll dive into the discussion.

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I've been working with a seven year old

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whose parents are undergoing a contentious divorce.

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During the initial intake,

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I informed the parents that it would be best to

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refer them to a therapist with experience in this area

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who is able to handle court orders,

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this is as this is outside my training and the services I provide.

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Both parents assured me that their main focus is their child and

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they have no intention of involving me in their court matters.

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Fast forward to a recent parent consultation,

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one of the parents was asking questions about their attorney reaching out to me.

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Again,

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I asked if they needed a therapist who would testify in court,

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reiterating that this is not a service I provide.

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They reassured me this was not the case.

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The following week I received a subpoena in the morning,

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but it was withdrawn by the afternoon

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because the parents had settled their issues.

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End quote.

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Did they really though?

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This incident strained my relationship with the parents,

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leading to discomfort and mistrust.

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While my primary focus remains on the child's well-being,

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I now feel uneasy about continuing to work with them.

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My question is,

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what's the best way to handle this situation?

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I'm concerned about the ethical and practical implications

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of terminating my work with this client,

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and I am considering termination because I've been feeling very uncomfortable,

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and my gut is uneasy after the last time I saw

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one of the parents during the drop off for a session.

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I'd greatly appreciate any advice you can offer.

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OK.

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So one of the really important pieces of this that I have learned

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is your intake paperwork needs to have very clear

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information

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in your informed consent

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and your policies and procedures

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about what you can and cannot provide to them.

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Our intake paperwork includes the role of a child-centered play therapist

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with

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under the umbrella of all of the other

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people that might be involved in legal matters.

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So it.

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Literally defines what's the role of a guardian ad liteumm,

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what's the role of a parenting coordinator,

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what's the role of a reunification counselor?

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What's the role of

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an attorney?

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What's the role of a child therapist?

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What's the role of this?

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So it kind of goes over all of this stuff and then we highlight.

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Here's our role as a child-centered play therapist,

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and here's what we can and cannot do

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in that role.

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Now,

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even when you do that,

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and you make parents initial that they understand that,

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and they consent to it.

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You might still get a subpoena.

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But the goal is that you do everything you can

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through verbal,

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written,

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and consent information.

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That

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if they have any intention of bringing you into court,

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that you can refer them to a therapist

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that works closely with the court as you do not.

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It will not be 100%

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failproof,

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but it's

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most of the way there.

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So again it comes back to

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making it very clear in the initial interactions,

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having it in your paperwork that they sign.

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And reinforcing that you are only there to advocate for the child

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and the child's well-being.

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Your neutrality matters,

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your confidence matters.

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So you have to confidently express

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why

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you are not going to testify.

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Now granted,

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they could force you with a subpoena,

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but

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I've,

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I've only been subpoenaed a handful of times in 20 years

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because

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I'm very clear about what parents can expect from me.

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And so it's about your confidence,

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it's about your articulation,

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it's about setting expectations early.

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Lujaina,

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it sounds like you did make it clear that you did not want to get involved in court

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and that you could refer out,

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but often when parents are in a contentious divorce,

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when they are in the midst of legal proceedings themselves,

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their attorneys push for

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your involvement.

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So even if they say,

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well,

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I don't,

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I mean,

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they,

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you know,

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the therapist said that they weren't really gonna get involved and blah, blah, blah,

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the attorney could just say,

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OK,

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well,

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we're going to subpoena them.

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And that kind of ties the parent's hands.

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So sometimes it's not that the parent

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is just completely violating your request to not be subpoenaed or involved in

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court proceedings.

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Sometimes the attorney says,

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we absolutely have to have their testimony.

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So it's not always that the parent just doesn't care.

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That's something else to keep in mind,

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but

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another

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piece of this puzzle is

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you also need to communicate with the subpoenaing attorney.

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So whenever we receive a subpoena,

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we don't just

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immediately say,

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OK,

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we reach out to the subpoenaing attorney

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and we say,

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I'm curious what you

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are requesting.

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Sometimes it's just something as simple as how many times have you seen the child?

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Sometimes it's something as simple as what was reported in intake.

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Sometimes it's as simple as

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how much money has been spent on your services.

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You never know

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what information they actually need and want for their case

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or for the trial or the hearing or whatever it is.

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So if you reach out,

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you can have them specifically tell you what they need.

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Now if they say we need your records,

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you can say,

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well,

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my records are held in confidence because of confidentiality.

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But I'm happy to provide a treatment summary for you.

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I'm happy to provide court notes for you.

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I'm specifically wondering what you need.

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So

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the conversation

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is not necessarily with parents at that point,

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it's with the attorney because almost always when you talk to them,

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you have better insight and awareness as to what they're seeking

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and therefore you can provide something that they need without having to testify.

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Now,

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there have been a handful of times that I have testified.

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But that's a very different conversation.

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In your context,

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you're saying now,

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even though the subpoena was withdrawn,

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you feel uneasy and uncomfortable because you feel that there,

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there was a betrayal.

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So that would be something that you need to

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have a discussion about in your consultation.

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So I would schedule a consultation and I would sit down and I would say.

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In the very first time that we ever met.

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I discussed the fact that it's outside my scope of practice to be called into court

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and that I would be happy to refer you

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to another therapist that works closely closely with the court

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and you said that your concern was only for your child.

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I've been working with your child

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and then I got a subpoena and if I'm being completely honest with you,

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I feel like that was a betrayal of trust because

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you assured me that you would not bring me into court

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and then you subpoenaed me.

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And so I'd like to understand what was going on,

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what was the rationale,

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how did that happen?

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Hear their side of the story.

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Because if they say,

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well,

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I actually told my attorney that you didn't want to be subpoenaed,

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but they said too bad we're subpoenaing you anyway.

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Then you realize that

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it was really out of their hands for the most part.

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If they say we really needed to hear how our child is doing,

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OK,

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well,

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I can provide you with a treatment summary

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to let you know how your child is doing.

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I don't need to be subpoenaed for that.

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So clear direct communication.

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I mean,

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I say this all the time,

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but I can't overstate it.

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Truth is kind,

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clear is kind.

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So you need to be truthful and you need to be clear,

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and you need to say,

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well,

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these are my concerns.

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I really would like to continue supporting your child.

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I really would like to continue working with your child.

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But I need to make sure that we're on the same page

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and I,

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and I need to know what to expect moving forward

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and I need to know that

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if you are going to end up in another court related scenario

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that I'm not going to get a random subpoena that catches me off guard.

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You have to be truthful and clear

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and just have a very direct conversation with them

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and I think if you hear their side

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and you make your needs and expectations known again

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with a little bit of uh.

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I

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I don't wanna say ultimatum.

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That's probably not the most helpful word,

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but with a very clear line of,

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you know,

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if you choose to involve me in court again

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and this is a pattern,

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unfortunately I'm going to have to refer you to another therapist and I

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would really like to preserve the relationship that I've built with your child,

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so I need to make sure we're all on the same page here.

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And if they know

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that if they violate or breach that trust that you're building with them again,

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that you're going to refer the child to someone else,

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that will be the litmus test of whether or not it's

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truly about the child or whether it's truly about court.

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So I think that's where this is going to land for you,

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Lujaina.

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I think that it's important that you have a very direct conversation.

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And you're able to be clear

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and hear their side

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and then come to

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Everyone's on the same page agreement.

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We know what's happening moving forward.

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We know what the stakes are,

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we know what will happen if certain things transpire in the future.

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Then there's no fear of the unknown.

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I think that's what I'm hearing in your email is now there's fear of the unknown

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and no one wants to have a therapeutic relationship like that.

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We have relationships with our parents as well,

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not just with our kids.

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So when that has been fractured,

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it's important to repair it,

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and that's just a conversation at the next consult.

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So I hope that that's helpful.

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I know many of us have been in that kind of situation before.

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I actually had

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a parent pound on my office door when I was in the middle of a session

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demanding that she meet with me

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mid-session

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because

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she

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had all of this stuff that she found out and I,

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I mean,

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it was like,

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I,

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I actually didn't feel safe.

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It's one of the few times in my entire career that I was like,

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I do not want to be here by myself right now.

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And

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there are moments when

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parents are in such chaos,

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such turmoil,

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such angst.

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I mean their whole lives are spiraling,

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and

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when you're in dysfunction and chaos,

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you typically end up trying to bring other people into your dysfunction and chaos.

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And so sometimes we get kind of swooped up in the middle of it

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and we have to be really intentional and careful

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with our boundaries and really clear with the expectations.

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So I hope that that's helpful.

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I love y'all.

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Don't forget about the live event,

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May 16th at 1:30,

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playtherapypodcast.com/live for a 300th episode.

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Please RSVP.

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We'll talk again soon.

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Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

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Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.