Booksmart with Vanessa Chester

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Speaker 1: On the bel Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them, Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello, and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Durante, my name is Jamie Loftus, and weird book smart. The two of us were really smart at books. See. I was struggling to think of a way to start this episode as well, and that was probably exactly what I would have said. Okay, well and we know to read and we're and we also a master's degree for crying out. Yeah. Yeah, you guys read a lot to do that. I don't. I don't think I would have really. I'm like, did I read in college really at all? And I just like really went deep into debt and got very depressed. You don't need to read to know how to do that. Anyways, Today's episode is it was brought to you by reading. Um. So this is the Bechtel Cast. If you're a new listener, this is our podcast where we talk about the way that women are portrayed in popular movies. UM. We use the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point for discussion. But what is the Becktel test? What I mean? I need someone with a master's degree to tell me, and dogshit to tell you that. The Bechdel test is a media test developed by cartoonist Alison Bechtel that requires that, let's say a movie that you're looking at has two named female identifying characters. They must be in the movie together. They must speak to each other, and their conversation cannot be about a man. Yes, you think it would be not that hard, but a lot of movies don't do it. Let me do a quick example. Yes, okay, Hey Caitlin, what's up, Jamie? I am still so like struck by the anime? Did knockoff of Titanic? We watched last night? Me too, the Legend of Titanic. I had never heard of it. We watched it. There's a giant octopus, but it's going to have identifying octopus. But his name is Tentacles, and he holds the Titanic together and everyone when the Titanic lives, it's we have to do a bonus episode on It's at least as good as Book Smart. It's at least it's not a little better. We watched it right after we double featured Book in the Legend of Titanic and Book Smart, for all of its merits, does not have a gigantic octopus that rescues people. And that's one of its fatal flaws, and that's really what the discourse has been focused around. Well, that conversation came close to passing the backtal disks until I brought up the octopus. I mean, and the octopus is really phallic too. It's like a baby doghead with eight dicks just shooting out of it. It's so strong and throbby, it's gross. I think you should let's bring move away from this conversation and introduce our guest. How do I follow that? I don't. I'm really sorry about impossible. Like to follow. You're gonna do a great job because I have two arms. I think I'm already failing the voice you just heard. She's an amazing human. She's an actor and you might know her from such movies as a Little Princess, Jurassic Park, Lost World, and Harriet the Spy. It's Vanessa Chester. Thank you for having me, Thank you for saying I'm an amusing amazing human being, Like where I just have a feeling she's strong into it. Let's check back in with that at the end of the and you still feel and then if not, I mean, we can always blame it on a friend of the show, Miles Gray, because he brought you into our Oh my gosh, we can always take him out of this world. We're talking about book Smart. We're talking about book Smart, a new release. Yes, popular listener request, and yeah, I'm just like to talk about it. So, Vanessa, what did you think of the movie? I really enjoyed it. Like I saw a preview and I was like, I want to see this. Like I kind of was that girl in high school who like studied a lot and got great grades. And I mean I partied still, but like I could have partied far more. I can't go back and do that, and I made up for in college. Um. I felt like the casting was brilliant, Like I liked every single character. I like the personalities, like they all had such great chemistry. That and also I feel like at the beginning it was like, oh, I know these people. I know who this person was in high school. And by the end you were like, oh, everyone's a blooming onion. We have many layers, Like we all realized that, but it also makes you kind to think of like that person in high school that you may have judged that you now see on Facebook and you're like, whoa, or like, what did I hear that I just accepted to be them? You know, we all had that. Yeah, a lot of traumatic high school the projects coming out at the moment. There were so many specific characters that you're like, oh, I would have pre judged that person in high school for sure, or like I was that or I hung out with them, or I like I defended that person. Yeah, my best friend growing up was a Jared. Oh really Yeah, Peter was a bit of a Jared, but without all the money. So it was just sweet. I was so sweet. I was very much like the gals Amy and Molly were like, I didn't party at all in high school. I was like really cared about my grades and like studying and if you're listening to the show for the first time, Cale and I historically canonically suck very boring in Lane. We are very I'm like trying to think. I'm like I was really good because I was afraid of my mom and I knew, like, but then it was one of those things where like, I'm not necessarily lazy, but the lazy aspect of my personality really shined through to find efficiency and things. And so I was that person who was like, if I pay attention in this fifty minute period and take bomb notes, I won't have to fucking study and I'll pass all the tests, like and that was basically the way I got through college too. I've got a photographic memory. Just look right, draw like, ask all the questions and be done. And then the minute I got into college, I was like, I just ditched for like half of senior. Yeah. By the time I was in college, I discovered Vladimir vodka and it was off advance. We did MR. We had Mr Boston from vodka. You could get it in gallon size and make it last. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The fake idea at Food for Last when I was like, pop off on me and everyone's but that's basically killing half of us, and I was like, it's chill. It's chill, guys, Like food Food for Less is the only place that accepts this idea, like three and it says I'm five eight, So do it, okay, guys, do you want Jungle Juice or not? Right, Um, let's just dive into the recap. No one has much of a history. I've seen it three times now. I was a little I mean, it was it was weird. I I just saw this movie. There the like discussion around this movie was kind of bizarre when it came out of like it underperformed at the box office and the reasons people thought that was sort of all over the place, and it was just like there was a lot of like interesting, weird discussion around this movie when it came out to the point where I was, I was like, I don't know when when Twitter discussions get so in the weeds, I'm just like, I'm I'm tired, and I'm less likely to see the movie. Yeah, Like I'm exhausted just from eating these reviews. I don't even know I had the capacity to watch the actual movie. You review too many takes, Like there were so many takes on this movie, too many takes. But I mean, like Twitter, Twitter takes are just like they're exhausting. So I was almost like put off from seeing this movie, which I realized now it was not fair because I quite enjoyed it. Likewise, I'll tell the story of the movie the story of the book. So it's the last day of high school for Amy and Molly beaniefeldsnin Caitlyn. For Caitlyn who my favorite fun fact about her is that her dad was the voice of Barney Stop right. I would I would just have a shirt that said so I wouldn't have to like find a way to get it in the conversation. It's incredible that I had to seek that information out. Why isn't she just talking about people, don't promote this movie you're in. Your father is a bar Need the Dinosaur anyways, So that's all I know. They are best friends and they are too like overachiever, goody two shoots types like funny, they're like, yeah, they're like not other weatherspoon an election. Yeah, they're like what we wanted, Like, oh, you have a personality, but you're smart. Yeah, like type A but not like they have terment each other, but like not with other people outside of their duo. And because they want to just study hard so they could get into good colleges. And then we meet some of their classmates. There's Nick, who is the VP of the class because Molly is the class president. There's like THEO and Tanner. They're like these like to burnout guys. There's this girl that they call triple a. Uh. There is this girl Ryan who Amy has a crush on. Uh skater out with the curly hair. Yeah. Um. And then there's Jared who's this like rich try hard kid and his rich friend Gigi, who is played by Harry Fisher's daughter Billy Lord. Yeah. I was imed being everyone today. I loved her. She was Nick is Kuba Gooding Junior's son. Fun. I didn't know that having famous parents gets you into movies. It's maybe be so good that I don't even I can't even be mad about it. So we meet all these classmates of their's and then Amy and Molly find out that Nick is having a party at his aunt's house that night. Then Molly overhears some of her classmates talking about her and like saying that she's not fun, that she loves school too much, and that she has a butter personality. Funny joke. I was like, Oh, that one hurts far far more. His school students are just even though this is like a writer like our mean cutting Yeah. And then Molly finds out that all of these classmates who she thinks are like idiot burnouts and who like partied a lot and had fun, also got into the good colleges. So she has like a connection like you know what, Amy, we got to go to next party. We got to prove to these people that we can be fun too, and that we you know, we don't want to have missed out on like fun high school party experience. This is like, I feel like it's such Catharsis for students who were like that, because that student almost never actually goes to the party on the last day, Like I definitely never. I just went to the afternoon barbecues when people graduated, and I was like, I'd like a cheeseburger and then I'd leave by four pm. I was. I was feeling it for them. It was like, yeah, you go to a party or you regret it for the rest of your life. Yeah, I was. So then they get ready for the party, but they don't know the address to nix Aunce House and no one is answering their calls. So then Molly's like, oh, I'll try Jared the like try hard rich kids icon Jared, who is listening to a Cheraldzoonberg on tape Lean and listen. Corporate feminism a little bit misguided. But you know he's seventeen years old. He doesn't. He's making an effort in friend so to call him and he comes to pick them up, assuming that he knows where the party is, and he takes them to a party. But it's not the Twilight Zone, sick. It's like his lonely boat party. But like, what would you do for one of those Jared T shirts? I right, I hope they're selling that. I would like one. That Jared party made me so sad, Like if this were a darker movie, Jared would be like he would like kill someone, like he has infinite resources. I watch a lot of true crime and as to see that storyline happening. Yeah, I'm like, it's a good thing he does have a heart of gold because this could have, like them failing on his party could have been their death sentence. The only other person there at his graduation party is Gi. She was just what a great character, so much fun she does appears, you never see her enter a room. I love this, Jaredy'll like, Molly, You're awesome. I like you. And she's like I gotta go. So she and Amy high tail it out of there. So Swan dives off of the boat. She does a lot of dives into water, like there's one that I was like, I hope that was a stunt double that one would like get hurt, right, Yeah, I was like, she's not doing a movie for like a month after. I think that one hurt. Great. So Molly still wants to go to next party, but Amy's like, we just went to a party, we don't need to go to another. And then Molly calls Malala, which is like their code for hey friend, you gotta do whatever I want. Whatever I say, no questions, ask like full support. So Amy's like okay, and then they hear back from their classmate Alan with the address is one of the Drama kids. I love the Drama kids and George, my kids are incredible. Love them. So they call a lift and the driver is their principal, making you know, some commentary on you know how educators are not paid enough. This is like this there is like I like it every time, but there is a repeating motif in this movie where it's just like and they get in a car and a very famous comedian is driving the car like that happens like four different times. We're like, wait, Jason Sudegus, did Jessica Williams like my mama, micoh bro, it's everything. It's almost as if this was scripted, but it's fun like that those scenes are this movie and compared a lot to super Bad, which I don't think. That's exactly what I thought after the car scenes are like when I got the strongest vibe when I thought the hater would dry. Yeah, well, I was thinking about the scene where they like end up this super Bad but like, oh, when mclovin tries to get the liquor that and it was like that one creepy dude who's like, you definitely have something in your basement. I don't want to know what. Yes, I don't, I forgot. I feel like, but that was what gave me that deja vu moment too. Yeah, there's I mean the comparisons. I mean, like it doesn't bother me at all, Like it's just it's a I think it's worth discussing later on too. But yeah, and I think that Jared is like kind of a vastly improved mcloven type character. That makes sense because we like, learn about him. We know about him, mclovin. Where is he? Yeah? Where did he go? I don't know. So they're in the cab there in the lift. They watched some porn in the car, so that because Amy's all I I don't know how to do anything with girls, and Molly is my teacher. Here is they're pornal no no, And then they finally get to the party, except that this party is Alan and George's Murder Mystery Dinner Theater party. I mean, druma that in credible monologue. That wait, who is George? Who gives the monologue? This like my husband? That's that's Alan. That is so funny. And then he's like, you don't have to do it every single time, sighing. I was like, I hope someone else comes in and he does it again. I loved the codependent drama club friendship. That was that really resonated with me. So g is also somehow they're at this party and she's like, Wow, I'm surprised you guys aren't feeling those drugs yet, because she had fed them drugged strawberries. Because it has to happen in this movie, it does, So they start tripping they hallucinate that their Barbie doll. That was weird things. Yes, yeah, well we'll talk about this scene. Yeah, this is like one of the things that was like like okay, O couldn't done without it. I don't know, but it felt wedged in. But anyway equals drug scene, you know, it's like you gotta experiment if you go out. He's like so over it. They also get sober so quickly, which is that was my next note, Like I'm not saying anyone's dabbled, but that seemed like it was way too short of a time, Like they sat down at dinner and their trip was over. I was right. Yeah, They're like it's the next scene. We're sober, we have Barbie, so it's done now. So then they leave George's party. Amy's like, okay, we went to two parties. Let's go home, and Molly's like, no, I still want to go to Knick's party. And then we find out that it's because Molly has a crush on Nick, which announces from like the away girl. And then Amy's like okay, let's freaking go to Knick's party. But they still don't know the address. And then they do all this homework to figure it out. They see a video from the party where there's like this big stack of pizzas from Lido's Pizza. So they go there and try to like rob the piece of delivery guy. For Brian's like you could be killed. Yeah, He's like, don't trust people, but he gives him the address. Later revealed that he's a murderer. Ye. Yeah, well, I mean when he'd like described what could possibly happen, it's like you've done or he's done it. You've got ten thousand hours of experience and this and that's scary. Yeah, you've Malcolm Gladworld. This to a career hours of murder. But they still can't get to the party because Amy left her phone in his car and Molly's phone is almost dead from all the porn that they streamed. Molly makes a call with like her last bit of juice. She's like, come pick us up. And then who shows up but another famous Camie the in Jessica Williams. Their teachers their teacher, that's fine, and she takes them to Nick's party. There's a yeah, man, Jessica Williams deserved a better storyline. I'm like, what we could take a photo and add that to the Like Jessica is writing on her hand even though there is a notepad in front of I just look at something like super protective and like, oh my god, that's a really dope pen. Should I swipe it? What about karma? But notebooks, you know things like that. I'm like, I don't want to funk up someone's whole thing and like rip out a page and I'm like, my handworks, feel free to use the notepad. But this is kind of the thing. Now, we definitely are going to put it that on a conspiracy math just like this lead to this to this. It's gonna become like a huge meme of understanding book smart. Yes, yeah, I mean we'll get into the Jessica Williams character in general. Yeah, deserve better. So they get to the party. Finally everyone is there. Molly and Nick are flirting, Amy and Ryan are maybe flirting. Amy is still not really sure what's happening there or if Ryan even likes girls, and then Amy sees Ryan and Nick kissing, so she goes up to Molly and she's like, we have to go. We should go without telling Molly what she saw. So then they get in a fight, and Molly's like I have to do all the heavy lifting of our friendship and Amy's like, well, you're mean, and then Amy reveals. Amy reveals that she's taking a gap year and staying in Africa for the whole year. That's the super bad moment too, right, Yeah, it's another big super bad parallel. And that was one of the moments where I was just like, oh, yeah, everyone in teen movies are fucking rich as hell. She's like, well, I'm taking a gap here like a good bank, Like I want to hear the kids like I didn't get a cal grant approved, you know, like something that's relatable, like I don't have health insurance. Yeah. Classic teen movie. So then they fight and they storm off, and Amy goes into the bathroom and Hope, another one of their classmates, is in there, and they have like sort of like this antagonistic back and forth and then Amy kisses her we'll talk about that, and then they start hooking up. Meanwhile, Jared and Molly are talking and like maybe vibing a little bit, I don't know, and then Amy cut back to the bathroom. Amy accidentally fingers hopes butthole and then I mean and this is like this is also like major like jet Apatow movie vibes of like I accidentally fingered a button and then I barfed, Like just to be fair, she barbs because she drinks six cigarettes. But yeah, yeah, yeah, but barfing on someone at a party, which also happens in super Bad. Yeah, the super Bad comparisons are warranted in many ways, but there are also not in many ways, and we'll talk about it. Um. So Amy like rushes out of there, and then Molly finally sees Ryan and Nick kissing, so she's like, oh, that's why Amy, you know, wanted us to leave. She was trying to protect me. So she like goes to try to find Amy, but right then the cops show up to bust up the party, and Molly gets out. The girl that they called Triple A picks her up. Meanwhile, Amy, she's like, I'm going to create a diversion for the cops, and then we cut to the next morning we find out that she's been arrested. She's so many questions in jail, has a phone call, pane of glass a whole bit. I'm like, I'm just fine to suspend my disbelief on that you kind of have to, and then Molly goes to bail her out using the information that they have on the pizza delivery dude, who we find out is they wanted criminal. Like yeah, and then graduation is about to happen. Everyone's waiting for them, and then they drive like crazy to get there. Molly gives her valedictorian speech, they graduate, Molly takes Amy to the airport and then they say goodbye and there's crying, but then they're like, hang on, we've got time to get pancakes, and like, yeah, let's get some fucking pancakes and smash to black at the end. Yeah, I wasn't expecting the pancake thing. I was like all in my feelings and my duvet crying, like I have best friends too, And then I was like pancakes, Like I love pancakes. Pot How many times have I, you know, gone to Denny's with a friend and eating pancakes once a week? Happens time and time again. Um, so that's the story. Let's take a quick break and then we will be right back. Hey, we're back. We're back. Um, so real quick. At the top, before we get into the characters, we've already alluded to. This movie has been compared a lot to super Bad, which what I like about this, Like, I understand totally why they're like, oh, it's like super Bad, but like with girls female super Bad, which is which is definitely a little reductive. There are, as we already pointed out, a lot of like story points that are like that basically happens in super Bad. But it also you know, avoids a lot of like the kind of bad mid to late adds teen movie tropes that super Bad does. But I mean it's like Beanie Feldstina is literally Jonna Hill's little sister. I understand why the comparisons are being made. And she she had a quote she did a Hollywood Reporter interview. She said, book Smart does what super Bad did, which is celebrate a female friendship within a huge comedy. And it's really a relationship movie as much as it is an adventure high school comedy. And I was like, that was is a little weird because super Bad in no way celebrates female friendship. But does she mean just it celebrates friendship between two people between Yeah, just like a high school friendship between dorks, which is true. Yeah, I mean also both movies center around in the end of the year senior in high school party. But like you were saying, and that's like the big deception at the end of like I'm actually doing this, Yester. Yeah, I'm like, I now I want to sit down and like watch super Bad again, because like Book Smart is so like fresh, but I can. I mean, I own the super Bad DVD. I was like, I'll watch this once a year because it's so funny, and then I stopped. Yeah, I mean, we think other movies came out, right, We did a Matreon bonus episode on on super Bad, so go back and listen if you're a Matron. But so much fun listening to you guys yesterday, like Blue Too through the Apartment just like creating up, Like holy sh it. They should have talked about the Clovers more like, oh my god, that's episode I watched. Bring it on you guys if you didn't want to listen to it, it's really great with a plague. One of the huge differences between super Bad and Book Smart is that the messaging put forth is like wildly different. Were like super Bad is like steeped in toxic masculinity and like the character's motivations for that movie is like they're trying to get alcohol to take to the party, to feed it to the girls who they like, so that they will have lowered inhibitions, so that they will have sex with the boys. All the things that people lie about doing today. They're like, this is the plot of the movie. Yeah, and like that it's like a funny, cute objective and it's like it's so weirdrifying, it's so like rooted in that like nerd entitlement trope that we come up a lot of, like and it's like in John Hughes movies all the time, but like the whole young man who has been sexually rejected a lot or like doesn't fit in, who then has to quote unquote resort to like physically abusing, lying to and tricking women. Yeah, it's like I've got to use sorcery in order to get what I want rather than just like be me right, you know, like spells, vodka, like lies, whatever, you know. Like thirty we have Mark Ruffalo being a warlock and using rushing dust. He has to do a whole complicated warlock some plot. But anyway, Yeah, so, um, are there similar story beats in both movies? Yes, are they totally similar shore, but there's fastest substance. What I think is like cool is like it's it's weird because I feel like any comparisons are sort of framed is like it's the same movie, which it isn't. And it's also just like I feel like indicates because it's been like twelve years I think since Superbad came out, and you know, like the world has shifted at least a little, and it's cool to see like kind of a similar framework. It almost feels like a science experiment, like can we make a better version of this general formula? And yes, yeah, I like that. And that's that on Superman. So there's a lot to talk about with this movie. My hand is full, it is, the palm is ready. So I mean largely it is a movie celebrating female friendship. We don't get that in movies nearly enough. So that's and like cool complicated female friendships because there's sometimes I feel like kind of Merry Sewish female friendships where it's like they get along all the time, they love each other and they respect each other, which is great, but it's like not really like they're exactly the same. That's why they make they get like women who are different don't get along. And it's like, no, they're They're not made from the same mold, which is why it's so beautiful that they are so obsessed with each other. That's how me and my friends are. We're so different, but we're same, same, same, not the same, you know, right, And it's like you see, I like that. You see them in conflict with each other. You see where they disagree on stuff. You can see like one thinking that the other is like acting kind of dome just like all this stuff that is actual friendships, like when they when they get dressed and are wearing the same things and are not upset about it. And I was like wow. Also, I was like, where do I find the jumpsuit because it's fanny Pack, Send me photo, I'll find it. And literally, there's nothing I enjoy more than finding like like an accessory or like a vintage something online. I got you girl, Thank you so much, fanny Pack. Clear my schedule. I gotta find back. They're so different because we know so much about them because the movie took care to develop both of these characters enough that we understand their idiosyncrasies and all that stuff. So very well done. I thought, yeah, I thought that the friendship is great and complicated and good, and I loved it. Indeed, there's a lot of similarly good sort of just messaging that the movie puts forth, you know, advocating for body positivity, sex positivity. You know, there's like the scene where they turned into the dolls. I guess I blocked it out until you brought it up. I like forgot that it was part of the movie, Like it was unnecessary. It felt weird. Like we watched this with our friend friend of the cast, Melissa Lozada Oliva, and she was like, this movie at times, like this movie was written by four people, and it shows that is such a good analysis because that, like that scene felt like of all the tropes that this movie avoids, I'm like, oh, they could have avoided the drug scene. It just like not that it's bad, it's just like it just felt weirdly out of place. It feels tacked on. I feel like it almost like, first of all, I don't think it was necessary, but I feel like the way that they executed it was just wrong. Like I feel like I would have enjoyed being that the characters were so developed and they had so many different little idiosyncrasies. It would have been fun to see those idiosyncrasies come out. Like I forgot that she was like, oh my god, my mom loves me so much, and she's like I was like, oh my god, I forgot Whenever she said she smokes, she thinks her mom's gonna die. And I got super excited about that, and all of a sudden, they were dolls, and I was like, it's just almost like, you guys found a way, like do you guys, Have you guys seen that episode of Broad City where they do shrooms and it kind of reminds me of like a water down version of that, but unnecessary. I think what happened was that they wanted a way to like talk about like body positivity, and they couldn't figure out a way to like work it into the script organically. So they're like, oh, maybe we'll just have them trip and then they turn into like these Barbie dolls as smart because that's what that function. That's what the scene serves to do, is like them like, like, look how unrealistic our bodies are, but also we kind of like it look amazing. Oh my god. And she's like touching herself. But at first it's like, wait, how do you even stand up on this? Oh my gosh, my tops too heavy and blah blah blah blah. My boobs are huge and they're smooth. And I mean, there's some funny lines in there that like hit of like her like momentary like this body makes no sense but I'm so smooth. Stuff like that. It's funny, but it's just like, I don't know, it's weird, Like, first of all, i'd rather see Caitlyn diaver and being felt seen have that conversation in persons, like it just felt weird that they're animated. And then I don't like what in the middle of this movie, Like not that I don't dislike the message, but it's just like, why are they talking about how barbies are disproportionate in the middle of this movie that has nothing to do with how barbies are portionate. It's almost as if they had a checklist of things that were like they should and they were like, we forgot body positives, so we got to get that back, like our woke list. Yeah, well glist. It doesn't feel like that because there's all these other different things where like there's a conversation about like gender performance versus sexual orientation and how they're different and right, yeah, which at least that fitting I mean a gender performance another thing for me to learn and understand. But I'm so downing which and most of the time, like the little like woke moments that they fit in story, I thought like pretty effective. The Barbie thing felt kind of like out of place. It's like, I did, I agree with the point, but like why is this? It's like the point doesn't hit home if it doesn't like fit in with the story, right, And it's like we don't really see those two characters like struggle with their bodies that much in the narrative, so it just feels it just felt like kind of that is a good point because it doesn't seem like they really care like about that, which we all do. But you know what I mean, like that wasn't a focus, like a focal point for either of them. Right. There's only one brief moment where Molly Beanie Feltine's character says something like, oh, Nick isn't ever gonna like me back because he only talks to girls who look like Triple A, and then Amy slaps her across the face right, being like, don't you ever say anything which do that to a friend. I literally was like okay, so this is gonna get weird, and she's like whine. I was like, if you were someone else and you just said that about you, I was like, I cussed that person out. So do you really think I'm gonna sit here and let you talk about yourself and be like yeah, that's great, Like what am I supposed to do? Support you? Which means I'm also knocking you down or like be a friend and check you. And I was like, you can't say that in front of me because you're essentially talking about my friend in front of me, which is you, which is when I saw it, I was like, I've done that. I totally get it. I didn't slap her, but like if we have another round, it's like if you keep it up, no, it's common. But other than that brief moment, we see them like building each other up, and like they look at each other and their outfits and they're saying, you're so fucking beautiful, like look amazing. There's so much like and the focal point is more their personalities then their bodies at every point because it's like they call her a butter personality. They're worried about the classmates perceived them personality wise, which they feel good about the way they're made. Like they're like, we look hot, we look cool, We've got fanny pegs. It's just our personalities that which I think is another great strength of movie, because like Molly is plus size, but it's like so normalized. There's no like there's you don't see anyone like calling her fat or like commenting on her body. And aside from that one comment, you know, she seems perfectly comfortable in her own skin and like, which is like teen movies need characters like that because there are girls who are like I don't care about the fucking norm Like I like the way I look. Yeah, And it's like usually I feel like in teen movies like this, if someone is mothered in any way, that has to be the focal knowledge. Yeah, it's like she's like like I remember like the running joke, it's like she's the nerd of the high school until you take her glasses off and she's beautiful. Like and I say that as someone who was in she's all that okay, So that all nineties movies like her hair straight and she's beautiful. It's like we everard that movie on the podcast So Testament two women threatened to kill each other. I don't even know where to go from that. Yeah, that's great, We've got the movie sending messages of body positivity. And then on that same vein like I feel like if you see usually in a movie where you see a character who looks like Molly, she wouldn't have a romantic interest, or if she does have a crush on someone, it's unrequited, and if she were to talk to that person, like she'd be really like flustered and nervous and like not good at talking to like a crush. But like the flirt game is good, so forward and like the whole like God, the teenagers talking to each other about Harry Potter houses. I'm like, you guys are such losers, but it's so cute, which is I think what I love the most about the two women is like they were normally grounded in themselves, like they knew exactly who the funk they were, and they're like women who are thirty who don't So it's so dope. You guys can't see my arms up. But it's like crazy because it's like you guys are barely like stepped into the world in high school, which is like ruthless. You guys are firmly grounded in who you are and like unapologetic because you have nothing to apologize for in the first place, right, And that's so like I've seen a few criticisms that are like, well, teenagers aren't actually like that, and you're like, well, no fucking do. Teenagers aren't actually like that most of the time. But this is like the kind of movie that's like, you know, you're looking for, like as a teenager, like people to model yourself after. And so if you see it's also like because you weren't in your friends or it doesn't mean they don't exist, like they're probably like sure, I'm like, were you like super bad? No? Shut up? Like there there are so many like cool example characters that like I wish I had seen when I was a teenager. And something I really liked about this movie is the that I think deviates for I'm like the teen movie like general formula, is that it gives attention and care to its like b characters, yeah only show up in a few scenes, but pretty much everyone is fleshed out. My favorite example of that is Triple A. I loved Triple as character. She is framed at the beginning as sort of like a teen movie trope of like she's the quote unquote slutty hot girl and then the mean girls. Yeah, because she's insulting Molly in their gender neutral bathrooms and high school, which is great but also bad for Molly in that case because boys are talking about her outside of the bathroom. And I'm so sorry to interrupt, but I just saw this like the things that you notice as actors. We see like either like that one extra who's doing too much in the background or blah blah blah, you know, like I love that person who's like whoa, whoa, how fights happening in the restaurant. I'm like that guy. That guy don't stop looking at it. But did you look at like the like graffiti on the walls. It was like I was, but it was like the most beautiful writing. And I was like, okay, Like the set director was like, don't don't mess with the paint too much, Like I was like, this is so perfect, so perfect. I'm sorry. I totally just like I thought of the Herpedian was like that ship is such a set serfecter doing good work. Yes, but Triple A she loved her. I loved her because then she immediately in the space of she's presented as this sexually promiscuous mean girl. And then in that same scene, Molly you know, goes out to stand up for herself and is pretty rude and it's just like, well, you guys aren't going to good schools. And then it turns out that like smashing it, Yeah, I didn't see that coming, is also going to Yale, and like she just totally subverts everything that you learned about her. And then there's another scene with her and Molly at the end where Triple A gives Molly ride home and says basically like she was called like the hand job queen or something, and because yeah, she gave roadside assistance to men and like, which is more clever than any teenager. But like sure, I'm like, I'm like, I remember my nicknames. They were never like oh wow, you actually are witty, Like it was just like you're an idiot. Like I totally identified with Triple A in like elementary school or not elementary woe that would be like, let's learn about my childhood, um junior high because like I was the little girl with huge lips and so all the boys started calling me DSL and you can figure out what they would just be like, yeah, Vanessa's got that high speed internet. And I was like what And then I was like, oh, you guys are so fucking stupid. But I was like, first of all, I'm fifteen, that's never happened. Like I identified with Triple A. I'm like, everyone's like she's the social one who parties, but I was like, I have a four point one I'm going to USC and that was like what Triple A does. At the end, she like says basically she's like, yeah, I've had sex before, and like she's very like sex positive about the way she presents herself. And she's like that people have the wrong idea about me. I've literally just given people rides home and then boys will like lie about like what I've done with them. But she does say she's done. No, but she goes, this is why guys say I've given roadside assistance because I picked them up. And she goes and yeah, like and I've also given I'm also blue them but like it's not like I came over to do, which I was like, hilarious, Like I didn't. I almost thought that they weren't going to say that, which I thought would have been awesome. But I also like the fact that she's like, no, I did do that, but like, does that because at the stake for it, like and then like it doesn't mean that she's stupid and it doesn't mean that she's not going to be And then like I don't know the way she and Molly sort of reconcile at the end, I'm like, Oh, they're going to be like roommates, and like that's so much fun to see. I want that movie to backpedal a little further on her storylines. So before we even meet her on screen, um, Molly and Amy are talking about her and call her Triple A, and Molly participates in this what's essentially like a sledge shaming right name, and Amy's like, don't call her that, and Molly's like, well, it's true, like she gave this roadside assistance. And then later when Molly's in the car with her Triple A, who's I don't remember what what her actual name is, Annabelle, she does this whole thing where it's like, you know, I understand the guys calling me that, but it really hurt when the girls would call it me that, Like she I guess assumed there would be exactly um, so she was. She was upset that the girls were calling her Triple A too, and then Molly's like, oops, I did that. And then but then she's like Amy never called you that, And which is what I also like to is like I don't know whether or not this is like a belief that is widely held, but I feel like there's something where people don't get that women can also be like funny and prey the and sociable and smart, like we can do that, we can do both, we can have it all, and they also be funny, Like yeah, it's just wild, all of the possibilities. I guess I kind of misunderstood that final scene with Triple A and Molly because I I the way I interpreted it was that yeah, she had like blown or given hand jobs to like some of the guys, but not all of them. And like what resonated with me that I guess didn't happen in that scene was that like there are times where like high school boys will overestimate what they did with a girl, which I thought wasn't which wasn't really like a point I see like addressed by the girl in a lot of movies, and so I guess, yeah, that didn't wish that that would happen. She basically happens. She just essentially admits like, yeah, the things you heard about me, Yeah, I did give some blow jobs, but it's because like I wanted to and I wanted to enjoy myself, like and she refuses to be slight shamed for her activity, which is great. Yeah, And then there's a few other like things that are like, you know, promoting sex positivity in this movie that I really enjoyed, which is like just the friends encouraging each other to like explore their sexuality. Um, you know, Molly' is like, oh, I want you to like kiss a girl Amy finally, and all this stuff. We see them talk about masturbation and like share masturbation stories. They watch porn together. Oh my gosh, what I so did with like my best friend of just like let's let's figure this out. We have access like duh, hasn't before, like private browsers, so we were just like fuck it. Let's get in there on desktops like, I don't know, do you know? Okay, well, what is how do you google? You can literally like google sheer tights and everything will come up, like you know, like you don't even have to try hard. Uh. And then another moment I liked along that same vein was there's a rumor that has been spread around about Jared and how he lost his virginity to when he was fourteen to a sex worker, which is language that I've never heard in a movie, like someone say the word sex worker, which things yeah. And then later on Jared reveals that he didn't have sex with a sex worker. He didn't He's never had sex with anyone, which he's like not ashamed to admit. He tells this two of those girl that he has a crush on, He's just like, yeah, I have not fucked, and I'm okay, that's hot Jared. I love the fact that when they're talking about his rumor, she's like, this is too crazy of a rumor to not be true. And I literally was like, because like I've I've I've just accepted that to like who would make that up? But it's like a lot of people made a lot of people. Yeah, I mean, and Jared is like another one of those like sort of be characters that you end up getting that full arc with where I feel like, if this movie was made ten years ago, that would just be the joke, like the like we don't really pay attention to him, but we like that he has a lot of money, right, eccentric rich kid, slut shamed girl like that those would have been the one note. But this movie like does a really good job of like giving them their own moment in the sun without it being too much. Yeah, it's cool. And then like Hope, who is the hot girl who Amy huks up with in the bathroom, Like we get to see her a second time, and she's not just sort of like put in the like random hot girl. Like I feel like in a different movie girl, she would have been mean or she like but she is kind of mean. She was met at the beginning scene, like I remember like seeing her and just being like, oh, she's going to be a pain in the ass all movie. And then she was back at the end and but then she kind of resolves at the where she's just like hey, Hope. But then in the bathroom even she's just like, you fucking idiot, you're crying in a bathroom. I don't like meek people. And then that prompts Amy to a surprise kiss her, which there's two surprise both of the protagonists of this movie. And Beanie felt seems surprised because I was, truly I was like, where did this? I mean, I know that they set up her and Jared, but like that kiss at the end, You're like, this is very Sadden. Yeah, there's two surprise kisses in this movie. Uh so you know we're not all the way there. There's still surprised kisses and a predatory teacher. Yeah, those are some of the things that I didn't care for. Let's let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for more hot discourse. And we're back. Let's talk about Jessica Williams. We're going to negatives, or let's go into some negatives, because there are a few. This is not a perfect movie. God, I just like Jessica Williams is so funny, like in the first half of her scenes when we see her at school, and then when we even when we see her like pick up the girls, and it's like, man, like you should go to a party like I wish I had because and then she talks about that ship was hilarious at the sensation that was so funny. And then I feel like the movie kind of like sells her character out and kind of make and they make her a predatory teacher, which doesn't seem like the character we met at the beginning of the movie. Yeah, there's THEO is his name, who failed seventh grade twice, so he's older, he's twenty, which they go. I feel like the movie tries to get a pass by stating that several times, and they're like, we're not making it like weird, like but you're still at like you're still fired, like you're out of best guess is like they're making another attempt to like subvert a trope where it's like, oh, look, how cool it is that an older woman gets with a younger man, because we don't see that that much. The problem is that power dynamic, power dynamic exactly. It is also being at your students party. You're fired, You're fine. There's all these other probably underage kids, they're they're all drinking like you're like cool, this is yeah, make sure your homeworks in on Monday. And don't take that jello like what Like, I just feel like like when she was driving off, you could like see in her mind her thinking about possibly going to the party, and I was just hoping it didn't happen. And there was no reason for her to happen, because it's not like we saw them hooking up or anything like yeah, yeah, it was so I mean that was another thing that I think is like this movie was written by four people, and this movie, the first draft of this movie was written ten years ago, so the first there's four everyone credited on this on the screenplay as a woman, but the first draft was written in two thousand and nine by Emily Halpern and Sarah Haskins, So that to me felt like some first draft ship. Oh yeah. And I feel like two thousand nine was at the hilt of oh my god, students and teachers are hooking up like yeah, and they're like, well, let's do a little twist on this that's like ultimately misguided and doesn't help the story and just is a waste of Jessica Williams and I mad about it. And to be honest, like there were no brown women in that movie, Like there were no like this. That's the thing that drove me insane about this movie. I think it did such a great job of showing high school men in every light, and we only had white high school girls. Yes, it was a huge missed opportunity. Like and here's the thing is, like I always think about that when I think about representation in movies, like okay, Like you know, you get a script or an audition and it'll say, like Vanessa twelve to fifteen. I've never I'm never going to play that age right now, but you get what I'm saying. And I'll either say like African American or all ethnicity, And so I wonder what this like, was it specified all ethnicity and these girls just happened to be the best, which they were fucking awesome, Like I won't take that away from them. Or was it one that was specifically Caucasian? And I'm like, there's so many Like to me, none of the actual girls in the high school, their personalities weren't specific to a culture. Sure, so they could have been any culture, you know what I mean? Like I would say, like, what is uh not Beanie's character Amy Amy? Like okay, so we saw her parents, I understand that, but like Beanie, Like Beanie could have been like a mixed race easily because we never saw her parents, you know, like any of the g a, any of those girls could have been Asian, Hispanic. Like the dude who hooked up with Jessica Williams was Mexican. He says that he's Mexican. Mean, there's two Asian dudes. We've got two gay guys, we've got two black dudes. Like there's so much diversity in the high school meant and you, I didn't see myself so bizarre like that is I feel like one of the big I was so confused by that of this movie. Yeah, the representation from male high schoolers is they nailed it over the place they nailed it and who knows what the actual process was. But this is a movie that was directed by a white ladies, written by four white ladies, and that shows in the way that like, I mean, they're representing themselves. And that's unfortunate because it's like, I don't know any white girls who went to high school with only white girls, like and if they did, they were like ship, dude, I had to like figure it out, like I like it was because of where I lived, you know, like but in most cities, and that seemed to be like an l A or a New York or something like that, like a diverse group of classmates they're in they're in l A. Like and and especially like the male population of the school is diverse, why would the female population not. Like I literally was like there was not one woman of color besides mis fine, right, yeah, no, that's insane. And that is like the one thing that does kind of bother me about the discussion that is surrounded this movie is that Olivia Wilde has come out quite a bit, and like rightfully so in a lot of ways, being like this is a movie for women, like we we need people to go see this movie, and like she's really been pushing it and saying like, you know, like everyone has to see this movie or women can't make movies anymore, which you know, like I understand where she's coming from, where it's like it's hard for women to get second chances. And the same thing with the black meniti there, like it takes twenty years to get funded and then Black Panther came out and now we're good. Yeah, thank you so much, Marvel. But she I mean but she's only representing like white women and her movie, and that's a legitimate complaint that I don't think that she is really addressed or taken and stride. And that's why I was like trying to think of it outside of like, so, what are the possibilities that could have landed in this way? Like is it all ethnicity? Then these girls, like I get it, Like you see someone You're like, I wanted it to be a black person, but this girl nailed it, Like that's g G. You know, Like so I understand like that, but I'm also like, really, there so many talented color who could have been cast, like, don't sense it's not the Well. The other thing too, is that a lot of the like top build actors are white. Because you've got Jason Sudeikis, Will Forte, Lisa Crudro, they're hardly in the movie at all, but they got top billing because they're famous people. And then they're all still white. And then yeah, I mean the classmates and the fact that they're all white women. They could have done so much, And I just feel like sometimes you don't need to justify why someone is a different race, because no one really justifies whiteness in films, it's just like that is it is, it is. It's so much else in this movie is very normalized, like the queerness body like it's all very normal. And then like you could have just introduced many characters who are women of color and also had that just be normal, and then they just didn't do everywhere. And it's like with the casting thing, it's just like if you can't find like a woman of color who is super funny and in like, you're just not looking hard enough. Like it's just it's just like if if that they ever came back with, like well they just it's like, no, you just weren't looking hard enough and you weren't and that's like an insult to like every woman of caller who's an actor who's like bomba and I'm like, okay, the what was her name? Hope I could have justified or validated her being like anything, Like she could have been half Native American, she could have been this. She doesn't had to be hot, but we just didn't know, like I have no idea what her ethnicity is. But at the end of the day, she could still fall in like slightly olive white girl with brown hair, like you know what I mean, I just wish that there was something, especially because the boys they were more diverse, like and there were less white boys than there were brown boys boys. And then George, yes, uh, it's very and Melissa pointed out when we were watching as well, she's like the only brown woman who's even mentioned is Rosa Parks when they're like listing off their list of heroes. That was another thing that was like, it's kind of a thing, but it's just like in Malala, I guess brown girls are there. Then they also mentioned Susan be Anthony, who was extremely racist. Never there there and like the way I don't know, like I know, a weird white feminism thing, like what there I mean, even the way they say it. No, I mean it's like there is the way that their rooms were designed, I was like annoying, which I hate to say, but but there is like very like their their rooms were given up white feminism hard where it was like framed pictures of Ruth Baygenberg and like but like it was like pussy hat feminism where it was just like vaguely consumer and which which I know is just like sort of shorthand for like these woke young white girls. But it's like, I don't know, I was how we all felt about Lena Dunn. I'm saying that, like, you know, I was rolling my eyes at the set, like the way they presented of like you know, wearing like pussy patches. I'm like, I'm sure if I were a high schooler in twenty nineteen, I would I would do that to an extent. But I was like, man, there's like, wait, the pussy patches thing, I don't remember that she just had she had like different patches of like vaginas, and she had like vagina posters in her room. So I totally didn't see that. The set to time, it was like it was very pussy hat feminism, which I'm like always vaguely annoyed by because it's vague nothing there's another do it. There's also some you know, like trans erator with that kind of stuff. But there's another um moment where I was like this is everything. Like there's another moment where um, like the white privilege really comes through where Amy there's like a video of her getting arrested and she makes a joke about not having a gun. She like call She's like a call shotgun and then she's like just kidding, I don't have one. And it's like, because you're a white girl, that had no consequences, but if you were brown or black, like you would have probably been shot. So okay, as the brown one at the table, I didn't even think of that. Thank you so much for bringing that up, like like, and that's the thing that's crazy to me sometimes. It's like sometimes those things are so normalized to me, like, oh, she doesn't have to deal with that, Like if it had been a brown roy I'd be like, oh, like because it would be me, like I know, yeah, wow yeah. And then like by extension of that, like if she was that extremely arrested, the fact that it's that easy for her to get out is very I was saying that, you know, it was like, don't even bring it up. But I was like where her parents, Like they were so involved, but no one gives a ship now like and then I was like she was out within a day. Like we've all had a friend who had to spend a night in jail. It's not that easy, Like you have to tell their parents, Like you have to tell her. Yeah, yeah, that was like a weird thing. I mean, and then something I wanted to bring up quickly that was, like I think, I think my last negative feeling about this movie. I'm pretty sure it was the lack of like in the same way that there's like a lack of self awareness about like the white feminism that's present in this movie, there's also a complete lack of self awareness with class, which I think is like such a teen movie thing and a children's entertainment thing in general, that like this, I mean, there's room to comment on it in this movie. There in Los Angeles, there's such a wide array of like classes present in the city, and this movie is like like most teen movies, it's about upper middle class kids who there is no I mean, especially where it's like the discussion is they're getting ready to go to college, which is like the most devastating financial commitment, like people who are not in a position for their parents to pay for their school. It's just weird that it's completely not press that would have been cool, like if there was like a kid who was like down and out like or like, I feel like they did such a good job of taking the secondary characters and giving them a moment in the sun. They could have easily taken one of those guys and like added that in, you know, like whatever it may be. Like maybe it took him two years to plead high school because he was helping the family with a part time job or something like that. I don't, I don't know. Maybe that's why THEO failed seventh grade so many times. Yeah, because he was like, I gotta keep the lights on. I mean, I liked the fact that he's going to go be a coder at Google, but like that, I mean, there are times a charm. I'm like, this guy, these kids are so damned community. That's like I'm like that is like the like coder prodigy character like that, but the I mean, just in general, I think that there's just like in most teen movies I watched growing up, there was like no one from like my class reflected, and so it's like where are the poor kids? Like right, because I was a poor kid in a super rich high school and I was like wait, so like I remember coming to school with a guess bag and like it has the same triangle as the product triangle and they were all like, oh, it's guess and I was like, but it's still whole. Ships also a fancy brand or am I just not PC people? Okay? They were like, oh you bore. Then I was like I begged my mom for this. What you talking about? My chapstick is in here, I'm killing it. Like I don't feel sorry for me there. I just want there to be teen movies where teenagers are wearing their cousins clothes. Like that was like where is that? I mean? And that's just like something that this movie doesn't really because all these movies need there was there was a really good Twitter threat I wish I had the name of the user. Then found like the scene where the like girl goes, you know, dives into an in ground pool and it's all in her feelings in these teen movies and like I didn't go into like an in ground pool till I was like twenty, like there is where but yeah, the like girl and her feelings and the in ground pool shot is it's becoming I mean I do have pool scene written down on here. Yes, but mostly because one thing that I loved about this movie was the music. I love the music. The music supervisor nailed it, like really helped me get into the emotions like and here's the thing. Even though I'm like an actor, I am such an audience member, like I like, I'm like, I'm all the way in. I'm like, I would be great at any test audience because I'm like, I'm going to feel the moment, like when she saw them underwater Ryan and guy who I can't remember that Nick. Yeah, I was like, we've I don't know about you guys. That's happened to that's happened to me where I've seen the dude I like kissing a girl at a party, and I thought that we were like on our way to like crush status. God. Yeah, Can Fidler. Yeah, the music is from I've never heard of this artist, but Dan the automator, Daniel Nakamura. He's like, I guess he's a famous San Francisco and he artist he did the whole score. Yeah. Yeah. The music supervisor who like did the soundtrack to was also point I do like that they had the library scene too. I do want it. I wanted to point that out because I was like, they talk about how smart they are the entire time, and I'm glad that they actually showed them like get down to business at they're great at And I love a good montage of like there's an okay. One thing that a trump at this movie avoided that I appreciate was like there was no like clothes trying on montage where it's like we're going to a party, we've got to find the best off it. Instead, they have a self defense montage where they're like teaching themselves self defense, which was in like you want to be friends with those girls, which is awesome. Yeah, there's some goofy and fun. The other thing that this movie avoided that I noticed was there's so many teen movies that ends in prom. This did not end in prom. It ended I mean, but I think that that is again like super Bad also, I mean I think that that is that might come from like kind of the mold that they're they're pulling from a little bit is like they're making a movie that has mainly been taken up by male characters before and they're making it a woman's story because I feel like, yeah, there's so many I feel I'm like there was a draft of Book Smart that ended in from and not what we're discussing. Yeah, but it's cool because it ends in graduation, which makes sense because their academics and then and then when the car pulls into the football field, you're like, yes, it's so exciting. That was exciting. Although, Grandma Caitlin here, one of the things I didn't care too much about this movie is that it makes irresponsible driving seem cool and fun because they were like driving like a bat out of hell. There was so much. All of your parents are away right now, and you know teams are going to see that, and they're going to think I should drive like that, and they're going to cause an accident anywhere. I cancel on you. I mean, I was fine with their driving. They were driving a car with flames on it. I was gonna drive that. It's true. My boyfriends driving a truck with flames on it right now, and you know we were making bad decisions on the highway. We're driving a truck with flames. I don't care if I die. If I die, I'm dying in a truck with flames. Hopefully it doesn't happen, but I'll be like, that's what she wanted, you guys. So she's fucking resting in peace. She's resting in flames. By yes, please put ari I f on my two stone. Resting in it also implies that's fine. Another big discussion that we should cover is the representation of queerness in this movie. Yes, we talked to our friends Ellie Bridgeta and Lee Holmes Foster Or on our deb's episode of the Let's Hangout podcast. They're wonderful and they kindly, uh. We asked for their perspective on how they felt about how queerness was represented in the movie, and they gave us truly wonderful, comprehensive thoughts that we would like to share. Ye. Should we just go back and forth on the on the boy first point is book Smart subverts LGBTQ tropes and gives us a lesbian lead character, Amy, who has already been out for two years at the start of the movie. She is confident in her sexuality and knows she likes girls. Her best friend is supportive, even encouraging her to lose her lesbian virginity with a joke about scissoring, which could be cringeworthy except for the subsequent exchange with Amy claiming that quote lesbians don't scissor and Molly arguing don't knock it till you try it, which a is totally valid and b is some sort of meta humor given that Beanie Feldstein is dating a woman in real life, which I did not realize that. Yeah cool. Next point, Amy's parents are also supportive of her without question and skipping Amy's coming out story, we instead get to focus on Amy as a person and get to see the high school experience we've seen in every straight high school movie ever from an out lesbian high school experience, which totally agree with. Again, in the same way that, like Beanie Feldstein's body doesn't become her story, like Amy's sexuality doesn't become her door. Yeah. Both again very normal co stars to who they are. Yeah, they're so comprehensive. Thank you so much, so much appreciative. Next point, Amy's initial love interest, Ryan is also an interesting subversion of lgbt Q trips. She wears board shorts, she skates boards, and she has short haircut. Amy spends half of the movie trying to figure out if she's gay or not, until she sees her making out with Nick, who is Molly's love interest. This shows that gay girls don't have to look a certain way to be gay, and someone can quote look like a lesbian and still not identify as one gender expression is completely different from how you express your sexuality, which they basically said in the movie. Yeah, yeah, it's just sitting here just so in uh. The sex scene between Hope and Amy is also well done and realistic. Amy doesn't have a perfect first time, but she does get the hot girl in the same way that the Michael Sayers of the world have been getting hot girls for years. The only love scene in the whole movie is a queer love scene. There are some makeouts, but the sex scene is reserved for our lesbian high school protagonist, which I've never seen a movie. Yeah, awesome that that happens. Like, the one sex scene you get is a queer god and sex scene. And even though things do go wrong and kind of a goofy jet apta way, it's like it's not specific to her sexuality. It's just an awkward seene sex scene because she's just inexperienced. I did find it hard to suspend my disbelief for Amy not knowing the difference between a butt hole and a vagina, like what that would feel like and where the positioning. Yeah, it was like it's I'm like, you have both and you know the like proximity vicinity and like they're like, yeah, the general I mean, I don't know, I've made some weird mistakes, and like everyone makes weird I I agree with them. Like, well, I guess she's probably wait wait, hold up, hold up, no no, no, no, no, okay, so wait, I'm just thinking that the visuals I'm doing right now. Okay. So Beanie was like, flip it. Maybe that's why she messed up. That's the only thing that I could possibly be like, maybe she didn't think like flip myself, but flip, I don't know. I'm the thing I can maybe think to justify that was that she's presented as being so awkward when it comes to her like talking to her crushes, which I think is really like I said before, like Molly is like super confident around her crush and it's like really good at flirting. By contrast, Amy, who is like the person who like more traditionally adheres to Western beauty standards and as usually like that type, is usually presented as being way smoother with like their crushing. But she's so awkward. Well, and I do like like that she has a little bit of anxiety, but it doesn't take over her whole character about like well, I don't know how this girl identifies. And my favorite way that that is like expressed in a very kind of subtle, funny ways when she's talking about how she's going to Botswana and she's like, well, I couldn't got to Uganda because like Uganda's every like very anti queer, and then she just says almost like would you be afford to go to That's such like that was my It was so sweet. It's just like, oh my god, how could you not want to like just come over and hang out with me and I'll protect you guys for the rest of your life. So sweet. It was adorable. So one thing that does kind of bug me about that scene, and I touched on a little bit, the scene where they're in the bathroom and Hope and Amy are hooking up, is that the kind of precursor to them kissing and hooking up is Hope pretty aggressively nagging Amy and then that gets her to be like, oh you're so hot, smooch like surprise kiss, and I'm like, I feel like that could have been handled better. We're like, why is Hope this like needlessly meme girl? And like why does that turn Amy on? Well? And then, especially in like a movie that generally does well by its B characters, like there could have been something set up between those two characters earlier, but it feels so sudden. I mean, they had a very very very short exchange when they walk into the classroom, but it was so short that I don't remember what Hope said. I just remember her giving attitude, and I remember because I've seen it three times. This is why we need you. Um. It's right after they score Jessica Williams's character's phone number, and then Hope Hope says, oh, you got your teacher's phone number, and she's like yeah, She's like okay or cool or something like that, and it's like maybe she's trying to flirt, and like maybe she's using nagging as a flirtatious tactic, or maybe she's just she send something like have a good date this weekend or something like kind of I don't know, to like set up like it was weird. I guess Hope is just the one who's like, we don't understand why she's mad, but like maybe she'll she'll figure it out and let us know. She's just very Oh that's why I Hope mad. That the girl sent us two more point two point sex one is um Benie Feldstein, who plays Molly Amy's straight best friend, is also an openly queer actress, which gives a movie extra points for casting queer actors and a queer movie, even though Molly isn't playing the lesbian character, which is great because queer actors don't always have to play queer characters like that's not yeah, And we talked about that on the recent Carol episode to where it's like straight actors are usually cast to be the ones playing queer characters. It's much rarer to see out queer actors being cast at all, much less than straight. What happens more with women where they cast queer women in straight roles more than interesting. My few examples that I have off the top of my head are Ellen Page, Kristen Stewart, and Portioned Dirassi. Yeah, I mean they've been it is it is harder to think about the top of mine. That might be one of the I mean, I'd be interested in what where queer friends have to say about that, because it might be like something that is a little bit easier for women, which is rare to say ever, but like the only out male actor I can think. I mean, like Neil Patrick Harris is the one. Yeah, but I can't think, like I can't think. Oh, there's um the dude on suits. I can't remember his name. I don't know who that is? That Meg and Marco's show or was that a different one? No, I'm confusing brunettes with blue eyes. He's so cute too. Um, Zachary Quinto often some straight roles or is it the prison break dude? Oh? What is his went Worth? No? Not went wore Miller? And then you've got like Ian McKellen is cast as scandal as Yeah, who I mean because Magnetia genderless? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I guess that there are examples that would be fun, like not fun, but like something interesting to explore. Yeah, for sure, I mean yeah, we would be if any of our queer listeners have opinions on that, we would we would love to hear it and or other examples. Yeah, and finally, uh, the last point that they sent along was all in all, we would have killed for this type of representation in high school. AMI sexuality is basically a non issue. Nobody questions it, Nobody bullies or teases her for it multiple side characters are queer fluid in various ways, also without facing any social repercussions, and the jokes are never at the expense of queerness. What a welcome delight and want a delight for them to have shared their wonderful perspectives. Thanks again to Ellie and Leaves to listen to the Debs episode we did with them, yes, and just to listen to their podcast in general. Yeah, something that I liked that the trope that this movie did adhere to was that many of the high school seniors are years old. That's just a trope I'll never get tired of. I love you know, It's like, all power to the child actors. But I'm like, you know, we're out here, we're twenty six years old, and we need people to think we're eighteen. And I appreciate that the Billy Lord twenty six year old. Visibility it's seated was high. A couple other things I just wanted to point out because I thought they were funny or relatable. Amy does not do well on pot. I found that very relatable for me. I have a panic attack anytime I consume marijuana. So I was like, thank you, visibility it's important here. And then Molly has a crush on a guy that she does not want to have a crush on, And I also found that very relatable because like, yes, I there have been shitty men. Did you hear my gasp? I just went through all my trump I just let it all out right there? Did you have any one last quick little thing? I did enjoy the scene in the lift where their principle is pitching them his detective novel and he's like, oh, you guys would like this, which I feel like people say to me all the time, like knowing that we do this podcast, yeah, they're like he's like, oh, it's a it's a female detective who is pregnant, and every time she has a hunch, the baby kicks. And then he's like he's like, I haven't worked out what happens when she gives birth, but like that's where I'm at right now, and it's just like, oh, okay, a man trying to write a pregnant woman. You know, he's like, I'm an ally and like read a bug dork. But then the last real point that I have is that, yes, this movie, at the time of this recording hasn't been doing super well at the box office. It's gross fourteen million dollars. That I think is a complicated discussion though, because it was there. I think that there is like a weird that was just like that. That's what was part of the discourse around this movie, like in the Twitter discourse just like it kind of it kind of rubbed me the wrong way because I feel like it was sort of a cut and dry like see people, hey women. It's like, well, this movie was released at a weird time, like it was released. I didn't even know it was out. That's the problem, Like how can I see something if I don't know what exists? It was, Yeah, the marketing was off. It was released between The Avengers, between Aladdin, between these don't do blockbusters. You don't like you can't do like a unfortunately like a feel good person driven story like during Yeah, just don't do it. It just seems like a silly business decision up with like high school graduation time. Sure, yeah, it didn't. There are a lot of like stuff that I've read because I do agree with the sentiment that it is. You know, it's like when you're a female director, it is harder to get a second opportunity to make a movie if your movie didn't absolutely kill it the first time, and that your work is just automatically held to a higher standard success. I totally agree with that. I think that it's a little bit it's little more complicated than it's been presented, and that if this movie had been released in like August, it may have performed if it was coming out in a less crowded like because there was a lot of discussion of like, well, Aladdin fu killed it at the box office, and I'm like no, but of course people are going to go see that just to see it, Like I remember, yeah, are you joking? Like, don't even call me when The Lion King is coming out in July, Like I'm like, I'm booking out for the entire month, Like I can't. Like I took a photo by Simba when I went to go see Endgame the other day, and I was like, lock it up, lock it up. I'm about to be Oh my gosh, what And that was that deal And that was like a bad look for a lot of people criticizing it because they're like, it's a movie with all white girls, and they were like, well, like Aladdin has a majority PC cast and it's like, no, that's not the hell to die on. Like it's just like the discussion around it was very weird. I wish it had done better at the box office, but I sort of understand why I didn't. Of course, like at the end of the day, like it's kind of tough to hear this is a movie about women, and then women who are hearing the message don't see any women reflected in the cast. Right. It's not like I don't go see movies like, Okay, we match, I'll go watch No that it's not my standard, but it would be nice to see like a bouquet of kids in that movie, and we women didn't like young adolescent women didn't get that. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and it would have been so the movie is written in a way that there's no reason it wouldn't be that. Yeah, it's so. Maybe it would have been too perfect to take it down a notch, have something to strive for in the second one. I get it. I get it. Okay, cool, um what I will say. Though, Even though the box office numbers aren't great, the movie again at the time of this recording, has a nine seven percent on Rotten Tomatoes. Which I think is encouraging and a you know, departure from what we've seen in the past, where you know, ten years ago, twenty years ago, where mostly male critics were would be reviewing female driven movies and hating them just because they were female driven. So it was at least encouraging to me to see that it has such a high score with critics, because that hopefully means things are changing a bit. Yeah, and I have no and I honestly I have no doubt that, like Olivia, I have such doubt. And yet in this case, I have no doubt. I have no doubt that Olivia Wilde will get to make another movie, which again is she's a famous white lady, h and so there is some privilege there too, Like I don't know, she'll get to make another movie, and I hope that she includes women of color in her next one. She will after the Twitter feed probably so it seems like she is reading the comments, and I was like, honestly, yes, and she's she's going to listen to this episode and she's gonna be like, Wow, the Bechel cast want women of color in the movie, but Vanessa is not allowed to audition. You're going to be the star of book Smart to the college version. That will be really fun. Melissa just texted me. She said, I think my favorite part of Book Smart was that everyone was excited to see them at the party. Was like, it's true. Everyone's like that. It's true. Though, like no one was like, oh the nerds came. Everyone was like, we've been waiting for this. It was such a supportive movement. We wish that was our high school. God. Yeah, I think that was all I had. Did anyone have any other final points? Check your hand that you've written on the thing that's making me really sad is towards the bottom I have don't trust, But I don't remember why I wrote it. I mean a good general rule. Oh is that? Oh that's because that's what Michael Brian's character says in the car to them. He's like, don't trust people because they like get into that car, and he like gives this whole monogue how scary people can be a queen and a psychic. Obviously, I like, because I was like, I was like, I'm probably have to email them later and be like I figured out what don't trust on my finger pad means? But we got it. It's also I mean, he's giving them very good advice, but then he turns out to be a I didn't see that coming. I mean, um, hey, does this movie pass the Bechtel test percent? Lots and lots. In fact, if I may just give a fun little easter egg, I don't know what this is. Um. In Amy's house, there's a sign on her bedroom door that says a Room of One's Own, which is the title of the extended essay by Virginia Wolf. That is partly what Alison Bechdel attributes the Bechtel test to. Nice. So a nice little Bechtel test tie in in the movie. Just I think they put that there for us. I think Olivia Wild, she's ready, Olivia Wild, come on the cast. Yeah, we'll have you any time. Come on. That's my new approach, shaming women into coming on the podcast. That's my offen. You're gonna be like, we've never had as many guests approaches ever. But yeah, this movie passes a million times between many, many different combinations of characters and strong strong showing a Betel test here. Let's rate the movie on our nipple scales zero to five nipples based on its representation of women. I think I'm gonna go. I want to say, like a four point to five. I think it does really well. In many regards. Where I'm docking it is the failure to represent women of color, the surprise kisses, which were tropes that should have been avoided. But I guess it's like, well, we're subverting it because it's women surprise kissing men in this movie. But an all female rebit of surprise kisses, I'm not on board. That should not be surprised. No genders should surprise kiss any other gender. Is yeah, just those few different things like that which were miss steps here and there that I wasn't a fan of. But overall, I think the movie does a pretty spectacular job. And I'll give it four point to five nipples, and I will give one to Beanie, one to Caitlin Deaver. Is that how you say it? She does? Her dad is Barney Dad. She give one to Barney, don't Barney's. And then I'll give one to Billy Lord, Carrie Fisher's daughter, and I'll give actually, no, I want to give one nipple to Jessica Williams, and I'll give my quarter nipple to Billy Lord. Sick. I'm gonna give this, Oh, this is gonna be too mean. I'm gonna give it three point five though, um I especially, I mean even and I probably would have given it a little more before this discussion. But I feel that after talking about a little bit, like the only including white women is such a mistake and such a huge lost opportunity, especially like it bothers me when a movie really is selling itself as like the woke and then it raises all women of color like that is fucking stupid and annoying. I don't like that the only like women of color, they include they like subject to this shitty trope, the fat storyline, the fact that there's a predatory teacher at like all even think about her name is fine. Like I was like, yeah, I was like, you guys are kind of like feeding this to me, like she's fine as fuck, and like okay, and I got hit the all female reboot of a predatory teacher another about that another election kind of thing, totally yeah, where it's like that that does that trope doesn't work when it's inverted. It just doesn't work. Ever, you know, it's like it's illegal. Um and and I own just like the lack of any sort of acknowledgement of class in a teen movie is something that always bugs me. I don't know, maybe I'll do like three point seven five. We can the same way. I think maybe three point seven five, because there are the things that this movie gets right. It gets really right that l g B t Q representation is strong and and and good, and from what we can tell from people we've spoken to, is very reflective of that experience as a teen. The female friendship is incredible, and the lifting each other up, like the good stuff is really good, and the stuff that is off just doesn't make sense to me for the kind of and I think that like if there were more um there was, like not for white ladies writing and directing this movie, that they these are mistakes that could have been avoided. And and also uh like for privileged white ladies too, because I feel like it may not have occurred to any of these women to include someone of a different class just because they're reflecting themselves. So three point seven five from Little Jamie, I give one Beanie one to Caitlin one. Thank you so much. Jessica. Yeah, when do you Sinkalen Deever? No, no, she spells her name wrong. She spells it wild one. Jessica Williams, give me my point seven five to either Barney or Jared. I can't decide feminist icon Jared. I love that Jared was doing his best. I hope in college He's like, oh wait, Cheryl Samberg is not the feminist icon I was looking for. Anyways, he'll pick up bell Hooks his freshman year and we'll figure it out. Vanessa, Wow, Wow, guys, Okay. Um, I was like numbers, numbers. I started off a little higher and then I got a little bit lower. Um, I totally agree with you. Like, I think that's the thing that's so upsetting about this movie is like it's such a missed opportunity because they nail so many things that you don't expect to get out of a teen movie. And then it's like, to me, it's so much harder what they nailed that they forgot, Like just diversity, That's what I'm like. It's so like I feel like maybe they put so much time into developing the b characters and like all of that that they forgot, and like I don't want to give the four white ladies like I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. But sometimes it makes me wonder, like, how can you look at your main characters and be like this represents all women that It would make me want to step back and be like, do I understand what representation of women really means? You know? Honestly? Like that and the barbies like my biggest issues. I just wish that wasn't there. Um. Yeah, I feel like that is my main issue with that. And then I also feel like, yeah, I feel like everything you guys said, I like lost some of it. I'm looking at my hand and I'm forgetting. So I have to give out three point seven five nipples. Think I just really wanted to get to that part. It's a fun part. Yeah, it's bomb Okay. So I'm gonna give one nipple to their friendship because it's just like, oh, it's so pure. Um. I'm gonna give one nipple to Gigi's disappearing act because that bitch can teleport. It's amazing. Was that disrepectful? She can like, I'm like women and that so she can do that. I think she's a time traveler. That's much. Yeah, she's the shape shifter. She Yeah, she's like going in and out of the Star Wars Universe. I'm gonna give a nipple to the pool scene and the music because it really took me on a journey. And then I'm going to give my seven my point seven five to Alan's speech at the beginning of Mystery Party. If there were two, he would have been, they would have had four nipples. If he had had to If you had done that speech twice, it could have gone up. If Georgia just let him finish. I was like, he definitely gets a nipple. That also best. One of my favorite jokes in the movie is just like very subtle in the beginning when like they're all in the classroom and George is like, there's no spatial awareness at the school. I also love when he was like, I don't audition offers only it's like you're in a high school play. And the way that they got their their drama speach at the beginning where they're like, it's in the parking lot of a Whole Foods. Also, it was the play I did last summer at camp. I'm like, yeah, that is what drama kids are like. So I love them. Oh my gosh, Well, Vanessa, thank you so much. For being Thank you guys. This was like a delight. No, you guys are killing it. My brain cells are all activated. Thank you for coming. We're so like excited to have your anytime. If you guys ever need me back Miles Miles lives to see another day. Thanks Miles. Where is there anything you'd like to plug? And where can people fall you online? Let's see, I've got an episode of Animal Kingdom coming out in a couple of weeks. They put a bunch of fake tattoos on me. I loved it. Oh, I have this really cool show coming out in uh Fall with the funnier diet called The Coope. It's it's interactive so it's murder mystery and you have to help. Like it's choose your own affection. It's really dope. Reading the script was very confusing. I was like, I know, oh, it's choose your own adventure, got it. It's really it's creak and filming it was insane, but it's I've never laughed and broke character so many times because everyone was brilliant. Yeah, and then I'm on Instagram Vanessa l Chester just yeah, yeah, thank you so much for thank you for having me. This was a great, great day, so much fun. I feel I want to do this with every movie, like I need you guys like to let me have like many episodes where I can just discuss to get it out. Please come back to thank you they invited me back. You can. You can follow us on the places at bachtel Cast. We've got our Patreon ak Matreon with bonus episodes like super Bad if you want to give that a listen. That was a fun one. I think that we were our first Matron episodes, which means we were drunk and annoyed when we recorded it. Um, annoyed or annoying or both? Can't it be bus? Yeah? To five bucks a month means to bonus episodes a month, and I think we're coming up on like fifty bonus episodes. You get access to the whole catalog. Um. You can check us out on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, at Bechtel Cast, or go to t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast for all our piping, hot T shirt and other things designs is go check them out. Yeah. Also go to our website bechtel cast dot com and click on live appearances for some upcoming live shows that you know we're or might be having we may or may not be happy, and only one way to find out go to our website. And then if you're in if you're in the UK the summer, please come to see my show at and Bro Fringe Fest or I'll cry. I'llkay. Anyways, I feel like I'm gonna be crying all summer. But that's okay, Yeah, see you this show and other than that, Um, go go read a book, Go read a go be book smart. Oh wait, can't say one more thing. So I was like, maybe the movie didn't perform all at the box office because the word book is in the title and people hates Like if it was called movie smart, people will go to see if they just audiobook smart every movie. Like, I'm their sounds like, let's work. Let's change the name of our podcast to podcast Smart podcast hard Pass. Fine, okay, bye,