Talking PGA Championship, U.S. Amateur, and Walker Cup with Sean Martin

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

00:00:02
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a.

00:00:06
Speaker 3: Brid egg, Frida Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Friday Bride Egg, Lie.

00:00:12
Speaker 2: I'm about ready to run off the golf course.

00:00:39
Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Podcast. Today we are joined by Sean Martin of the PGA Tour. Sean is on the ground of the PGA Championship, but the main focus of this podcast is going to be on the upcoming us M and the Walker Cup team that will be selected right after the USM, So we're going to diverge and go into a little bit of amateur golf here on the pod.

00:01:06
Speaker 2: But Smartan, what's happening out in Quail Hollow.

00:01:13
Speaker 1: It's raining, As if it had to be like any more of Rory's championship, it's rainer right now. It's just the rain most of the day. It's gonna be long, it's going to be soft. And I mean, if Rory wasn't already the favorite, I think the audor are just continuing to move in his favorite.

00:01:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like everything's kind of aligning for Rory. The way he played last week, the way he hit the ball, and then combine that with a very soft golf course that he's dominated at. It it seems like a Taylor made place for him to break out of his major slump.

00:01:45
Speaker 1: I think so, I think you hate to say, because winning it's so hard in over seventy two holes, there's so many little things that can go your way or go against you, and it's just I think winning sometimes is overrated as a way to rate players. But I think if Rory Leasher is anyone to win, I feel like you'd have to be disappointed. So I know it's Rory and Speet this week, and I think, I mean, that's really all the folks of the storyline, heading game, and of course the short all the talk so far. It's only Twesday, Tuesday morning, but shorts for some reason have been all the raid and all the talk. And I don't know, I STI don't quite get it. I think guys I like pants. I'm not a huge I don't think anyone doesn't play golf because throws wear pants. There's some guys like Rory and Ricky looks good and shorts. But at the same time, I don't know. I just think this whole short thing has gotten a lot of control.

00:02:33
Speaker 2: You know.

00:02:33
Speaker 3: It always amazes me how golf has these little things that get blown completely out of proportion. I feel like it's unlike any other sport where the smallest little things get like the most polarizing views. And shorts this week seems to be the thing. Like at Aaron Hills it was the overspray and the fescue, and here we have the shorts that everybody's freaking out about it.

00:03:00
Speaker 2: That's the big deal. It's and human.

00:03:05
Speaker 1: I think people, just like you know golf, golf is. It's fairly repetitive, so people like something new. I always say, novelty is a heck of a drug, and so I think, you know, we even wearing pants forever, so I get it. Shorts are new, but I don't think you know it's also this is viewed like some grow the Game Initiative, and I work for the Pants Lobby. We're all pants, so I get I'm wearing pants right now. You know the players aren't. But I don't think anyone is going to start playing golf because the guys wear shorts. And on the other side, I don't think anyone doesn't play golf because the pros wear pants, But I don't. I don't know it's good the guys who aren't short, I'm kind of glad to go back to pants once the tournament starts. You know, there's just some guys you don't want to see in shorts, frankly, and I think they would even admit it, And so I don't know. I I think, if anything, I think it makes golf look bad because we're so obsessed with short I think people are like, look, who cares, Just do one or the other and move on with it.

00:03:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:04:00
Speaker 3: I just hope that the maybe we could end the epidemic of you see these kids in these amateur tournaments and it's ninety five degrees and they're wearing pants, and you're like, why are you wearing pants at a thirty six hole USAM qualifier when it's ninety degrees and you have to walk thirty six holes? Like, not one professional would be wearing pants in that situation.

00:04:25
Speaker 1: Well, I think it was Justin Thomas, and I think some other guys. I'm pretty sure Justin If you look at all those old Juniors DOLF photos wearing pants because his dad told him that PGA tour players wear pants, and so he wanted to start preparing for the PGA Tour as soon as possible. But it's like if we switched to shorts all those hot summer days in Kentucky when he was wearing pants, those are all out the door, and those were for nothing, I guess, but I mean, I understand. I kind of appreciated that the guy Brian's wearing pants to like tour pros, though I do think at times take advantage of the rules, use them in your favor and wear some shorts. But I don't know. I like that Justin Thomas had the foresight when you're seven years old to like, hey, tour pros wear pants. I'm gonna play on tour on the war pants. When I'm seven years old, Hey.

00:05:08
Speaker 3: I'm out on I'm out on pants and am events. Western m requires the pants, which I think is kind of kind of stupid. But the voluntary pants wearing, like I saw this one guy at my USDM qualifier who legitimately like he you could tell he was trying to look like Dustin Johnson, like decked out in full Dustin Johnson gear and he shot like ninety two, and you're like, why don't you worry more about your golf game and less about looking like Dustin Johnson.

00:05:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, the more you bring it in a fashion sense, the more pressure you're putting on yourself. I'd rather kind of look bad and play good and look good and play bad. The Western Am'm wearing pants. That's amazing to me because that's three straight whole days in Chicago in July August wearing pants, and so that is a that is a true endurancetead.

00:06:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:06:06
Speaker 3: And they they allow shorts now in the practice round, which is you know, they've they've opened that up to shorts, but they still require the championship to be in pants.

00:06:16
Speaker 2: So it's a I mean, I think it's something.

00:06:18
Speaker 3: That they are moving towards, but they haven't gotten all the way there.

00:06:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:06:23
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why the PGA allowed shorts. They thought the Western animal was doing it and they thought, you know what, let's get on board too.

00:06:28
Speaker 3: Who who would think that the Western Golf Association as a trendsetter.

00:06:35
Speaker 1: I just love the fact I'm going, you know, going to BMW here soon. I love the fact that the Western Golfszation is called that because back when it was formed so long ago, that was the West. Like the Western Golfozation goes back so far that Chicago was the Western United States.

00:06:50
Speaker 3: It's I mean it with this whole PGA move, it's kind of interesting because with it moving to May, it shines a light on all of the kind of West coast and Southern courses, which for the most part were developed way after those of like the Midwest, so like Chicago, the Northeast, Philly, New York, and Boston, and you're gonna have a lot of newer golf courses that don't have necessarily the championship history of the courses in those you know, great golf cities, which you know, and that's a point of the Western Golf Association being the west side of of golf.

00:07:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we were talking, I'm talking this morning about some places, and I mean there's so many things logistically, even lengthwise, the reasons you can't do it, But it would be awesome if the the PGA just went off the rails and just take all of these new, you know, link style courses like go to Pacific, dudes, because I know you can't think it's hips out at six six hundred yards. Uh, but you know, go to go to Abandon and go to Moving Side, but you know, go to San Valley, which might be hard to go to. Those kinds of courses. Just be known as a place where, you know, all the new just kind of eccentric courses, we're don't playing those and we're going to get on some really crazy layouts. I think that would be a cool identity for for the PA.

00:08:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could do Trinity Forests down in Texas. Blue Jack would be an interesting one.

00:08:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think blue Jack.

00:08:22
Speaker 3: Could be a really good coast. I really liked it when I played there in the fall. I wouldn't be surprised to see Shall Creek get another one. You know, they set record attendance numbers when they had it there in the nineties and they just finished up at a renovation there, so I would be very I wouldn't be surprised, if all at all if we saw one going back to Alabama.

00:08:50
Speaker 1: But your stream song maybe stream song.

00:08:52
Speaker 2: Could be cool. It would be it'd probably be getting into.

00:08:56
Speaker 3: The very hot stage there, and that place is you know, because is this a fast fate farm.

00:09:01
Speaker 2: It's like ten degrees warmer, Right, do you think.

00:09:05
Speaker 1: Blue jacks be awesome? Blue jack out there? You have so much land available. I love blue Jack. I played there once, someone big blue jack fan just a whole ye too, but that's a whole different podcast.

00:09:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like blue Jack for I just think, you know, I found it to be very challenging, like subtly challenging. I know the whole identity is playability, but what Tiger did with lies and and the way the greens, the greens are really receptive for like the low running shot that you know, a higher handicap than like a senior or junior or a lady.

00:09:39
Speaker 2: Would play, but they make it.

00:09:41
Speaker 3: They're really tough shots for like the person that's flying the ball in there.

00:09:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a great example of just that hole. You know, challenging is the good player it's playable for this it's not as good player. It's obviously very wide. And I think that's you're totally spot on it. There's so many false fronts and just fall off ith. You have to think and you have think about your misses, and I mean it is it's your course. It's with an angles. You got to come in from the right angles to have a chance, but you have the wits that it's playable for everyone.

00:10:15
Speaker 3: So you know another place that's about with an angles that could be a PGA site is this year's us AM site, Riviera. So talking about Riviera on the tour, you see typically older winners come from riv I think in the last twelve years the youngest winner was Charles Howell at age twenty eight. So we see this older kind of winner, and it's it's less about power. You know, power obviously helps, but it's more about hitting it to the proper side of fairways, to open up angles to the pins that are really well protected.

00:10:54
Speaker 2: What do you do?

00:10:55
Speaker 3: You do you see maybe experience, so your older college players having an advantage, and then you know possibly mid Ams having an advantage at.

00:11:04
Speaker 1: Rif I could see that, I'm curious. Unfortunately the Midian front of thought, Stuart haggasad t sweet his clubs got solen because that doesn't help things. But I'm sure he's going full force and getting a new stet and getting dialed in. But riv is interesting because I think you do get the older winners. You've pointed that shot out through before and I didn't realize it, so you did, But there is depending on how the coculia is, there is width in the alley ways, I feel like, but if the caculia is unplayable, obviously then the fairways can be narrow. But I think for the Genesis Open, they've had it where the cocuia is a little more playable and so those alley ways you have a lot of playable area than if the coculia is down and it's brutal when the catullia is up. I think, you know the NCAA Championship when Thomas Peters won, I think he was four hunder for three guns, and I think there were like three guys under par. I can definitely play a lot harder than maybe we see it sometimes in February when it's wet. But you know, you've seen Dustin and Bubba play so well there that I think that you can still bomb it around there depending on how the setup is. And definitely Lank helps. I think older college players I could definitely see an advantage, but I don't know. There's just so many guys that just kill it. You can almost play thoughtless golf nowadays, and you know, hopefully Riviera does force you to think your way around a little bit more than other places have. I haven't lived in some California in a while, but I think that it can play a little firmer and faster in August. So that will definitely help experience and bring back to the forefront because Riviera is designed to obviously plays firmer and fast, and it's so tricky. So if they've had good weathers in the forecast, I think I think you're spot on there.

00:12:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting.

00:12:47
Speaker 3: I spent the week at at the Western m last week and something that you've brought up about this like thoughtless golf, is I mean this young revolution that we are seeing on tour. After watching these kids play around Skokie, I think it's you're only going to see a younger and younger tour for the time being until something happens with technology.

00:13:10
Speaker 2: I mean, these kids just have no fear.

00:13:13
Speaker 3: They've never hit a shot that really curves offline and the ball just goes so straight now that it's just you know, they if there's no wind and it's these kids are just going to tear up any golf course. To me, I just found it absolutely These kids are so good at golf now it's and I think it's we're just going to see a tour that gets younger and younger, and we might see an amateur win a tour event in the next five years.

00:13:43
Speaker 1: I can totally see that. And I think, you know, when I I'm thirty four, and I remember when a great, big Bertha came out and that was obviously revolutionary ground titanium drivers were people were switching to titanic drivers. There was a new thing. And now you've got guys who've grown up obviously the four hundred sixty secy heads. And I think two, really how far the ball does and how far people hit it. You really only need to master I'd say two skill sets, maybe three. You have to become a great driver of the golf ball, and then all even have left in from there as well. So become a great driver and a great wedge player. You know, you might need to mid irons for second shots on par five and for some part threes, but really it's driving and wedging now, and so I think it allows me to really focus on those areas, get really good at those, and you know, maybe kind of take some other parts of the game out of it. Unfortunately.

00:14:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's definitely changing. I mean, I played our State Am a couple of weeks ago, and I don't think I hit more than like a I hit a five iron on a par three, but that was that's the longest iron I hit all week. And it's just it's crazy. It's like, you know, I'm I seem to gain twenty yards. I think I gained ten yards a distance this year. And it's like, you watch these kids. You've got Cameron Champ out there hitting three hundred and seventy yard drives with regularity, and he's he'd be the longest player on the PGA Tour right now, and he's a twenty one year old kid.

00:15:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he is, I mean, he's I think that some nice people attribute too much of it to athleticism, but I think that also sometimes people overlooking feel, and he is an athletic build, athletic kid, you know, like he now is very athletic, He's very springy, can just stailing moves and sing with dust and obviously, but it's interesting too with track man, I think I think this all goes back to the ball, but with track Man, people make swing changes now based on getting the best TrackMan numbers. So guys are whereas before you kind of grew up. I don't know when I grew up. You sailor your swinging in space. They are hitting the ball straight. You wanted to hit it far enough, obviously, but you were more worried about keeping it in play. Now it's almost like guys Taylor, they're swinging to just getting the best TrackMan numbers. Hitting at the part of I think that is a big change as well.

00:15:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're you're able to optimize your equipment to such a fine love with track Man, and then you were able to optimize your swing to launch at a perfect angle that you You've got this. I mean, I think that's one of the underrated uh things about what technology done, is how the golf swings change. I mean, the philosophy of the golf swing is so much different now than it than it was fifteen years ago.

00:16:21
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think you see a lot of more bode left wrists. I think they let people come in with a shallower angle of attack and maybe kind of hit up and from the inside and kind of hit that draw. I think Rory, I think I will figure that out on his own. Obviously it was pretty tracking when he did. But I think that's why you see a lot more Bode left wrist and really the cup I think the cup rist is just a little phage, but if you want to just kill the ball, uh, that's why you I think you'll see a lot more Bode left wrists at the top of swings before. Yeah.

00:16:49
Speaker 2: And and the lower body.

00:16:50
Speaker 3: I mean, these guys use their lower body so much more, and I think that's part.

00:16:54
Speaker 2: Of having less big misses, you know.

00:16:58
Speaker 3: But it's really interesting is you watch these kids and you're just I think back and I'm seeing some kids that are sixteen fifteen year olds that are playing in this West Or Am and I think about what my golf game was like when I was fifteen and sixteen using Tommy Armor silver Scott's, and I'm like, well, this is a completely different game now.

00:17:21
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think Scott Famsa had a great point on your podcast before of really the really, really good players they fitted this stuff out on their own, Like you see how you know, guys figured out how to use their lower body before we knew about ground forces, and guys knew how to manage the course just because they had golf smarts. But now with data, guys like Scott Faust and guys who are good as track man, they can pack that data and give it to anyone, So you know, the advantage is almost gone. That's the kind of wise player had before they figured out on their own. Now we have so much data and so much intelligence, so much knowledge that everyone, if you use the right resources, can become an intelligent player. So I think that's kind of interesting, and it kind of it's hard because it takes away the advantage of the guys who really figured it out on their own, because now everyone can kind of figure it out if you go to the right places.

00:18:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's strack line is another big thing, the green reading books. You saw kids out there, they'd have their they'd be have their strack line book out for eighteen inch putts and they'd be layering strack line with aim point. I mean, it was crazy. I should have taken a video and you know, sent it over to Shackleford. He would have really loved to see this, like this green reading book aim point and pretty much the the skill of reading greens is gone.

00:18:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I don't know, it is. It's amazing. It's kind of. I don't know what you do. I don't know where you gain an advantage if you're a smarter player. I don't know what the next frontier really is because we've got you know, Fossett and those people have figured out course management and they can package and sell it to you. Green reading is gone. Uh, strategy has been figured out through data. I don't know what the next step is for really the wise wise golfer at a sense having that good golfing brain. I mean that was one of Tiger's suit advantages of the golfing brain obviously disciple of the physical talent, and I mean Jack Nicholas as well. So I don't know. I don't know what's next on it. So I don't know where people differentiate themselves mentally.

00:19:27
Speaker 3: I guess maybe maybe it's about getting woke to within angles.

00:19:32
Speaker 2: It's all architecture.

00:19:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you know, that could be it. I mean, I think obviously there's such a big empsis on hitting it far and vombing it h and and for the reason Brodie's data has backed that up. But I do think that people now start to ignore strategy E because they just figure well it want tells me just go mash it as far as like man. So I think we could come back full circle where now guys who can strategy as well, we'll have an advantage because people maybe are asleep at the wheel a little bit. I could see that.

00:20:08
Speaker 3: So to get back, you know, we've now divulged into this technology in modern game talk. But to get back into the amateur golf scene. From your time covering college and am golf extensively at Golf Week, what were a couple of your favorite amateur events.

00:20:30
Speaker 1: I always love the USA, and that's the obvious answer, but I think for a different reason than it was the USA and that just it was the biggest, but it's always held on great golf courses, and I always love you can walk down the middle of the fairway of the course, and so you can watch from the middle of the fairway of course being played properly if you will, or at least played by by very steeled players. I thought that was really cool, and that was one of my favorite things about amateur golf and going to amateur events, and I always recommend telling people to do it if they can. A few with amateurs in town, owner be with a Chicago's and got the Western amateurs that you can walk. You can walk in the center way with a small crowd on a really great golf course and watch someone play it, you know, from a high scale level. So I think that's the best part of amateur golf. But same thing with NCBLAS. I think the match play format. I think it's great. Obviously it's been accepted very well, but there honestly was so much drama when you were on site. Uh, but it was awesome. I think NTBLAS for that reason. I think the US Amateur just because the great venues, and then honestly, the States are so high, we're some of my favorites. The Western's good too. I think I like the thirty the twelve days. You can really if you want to, you can walk a con and see at con, which was always obviously great.

00:21:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, this year's field over there was pretty insanely good too.

00:21:47
Speaker 2: That's I really like amateur golf.

00:21:50
Speaker 3: I think it's it's a really cool way to get to see a lot of the future.

00:21:56
Speaker 2: You know, PGA Tour players.

00:21:58
Speaker 3: People were talking last week at the West or Am how many PGA Tour winners are going to be in that from the from this field, and I think the general consensus was probably five.

00:22:07
Speaker 2: But I think that's.

00:22:08
Speaker 3: Something you sent me a text, uh a couple maybe a week or a couple of weeks ago. We were talking about sponsors, exemptions and and and it's just talking about how, you know, you see all these kids that are great college players, great amateur players, and and how you always expect them to make it, but then you know a lot of them don't.

00:22:27
Speaker 2: Because it's just so hard to get to the PGA Tour level.

00:22:31
Speaker 1: It's so hard, and I think, uh, I think one of the great skills is being able to play well when you need to. And obviously there's some things that happened you can't control. There's injuries or something the game goes out just that that summer that you're turning pro. But there's something a skill of like guys are able to rise and they need to. And you've seen it with you know what Speek did and turning his car without status and wrong did it. And you know, I think when you have such limited opportunities like you do when you first turn pro, I think you need to be able to play well in the widest variety of variables. That you will. So you know, some guys they can thrive on on amateur setups that might be a little bit maybe just a little bit shorter than tour courses. Though really a lot of the amateur and into the late set ups are more and more starting to make tour setups, which I think is why this guy makes it turn so quickly and kind of get on tour so quickly. But you know, if you're not a good win player, or you're not you know, good on a certain type of golf course or certain type of weather, and you only have sixty seven starts to make it and try to get your card or try to get to the Web finals, like you have to learn to handle so you can't just you know, have a bad tournament like college where okay, my school has thrown out on a big deal. It's like, hey, you got to learn to say and learn to be able to play well and need different conditions. And so I think the guys that really make it very quickly are the guys who can play well in the widest variety of conditions for courses that kind of stuff, because they only have them shots to try to get their card, and so you know, he doesn't just get it done. The course doesn't fit here.

00:24:06
Speaker 3: I yeah, I think one of the underrated things just about professional golf that people discount is the whole idea of going from this controlled college environment to out on.

00:24:17
Speaker 2: Your own on the road alone, no friends.

00:24:20
Speaker 3: Like when you're on the road with your college team, you've got your best friends, you've got your coach who's taking care of everything, and then all of a sudden you're just thrown into the deep end and you know whether you're up on the Canadian Tour or you're down in Latin America, or you're playing you're doing Monday qualifying on the web. Like that is a huge life change, and being able to handle that at twenty three, twenty four years old, twenty two years old is not easy.

00:24:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I will to a podcast David Ashton's actual Has Webstein on the gand of the Cub that he said that they looked so much at kind of players make up how they handle pressure, because so many guys that fit. The heart transition is you go from being the big fish in the little pond. You know, you're the stars, the media's covering you, everyone's throwing equipment and just tension at you because you're one of the best sandwichers in the world. So now you're a little fish in a big pond. And some guys, I think, you know, now you go, no one really gets where about your you know, the last tea time off of the day, you're you know, going cares you're and that's a big adjustment to some guys. I think some guys their egos take a hit and they can't they can't handle it. And I think kind of like what you talked about, there's so much more pressure. Like if you're in a college event, you know, you're twenty fifth going in the last round, he shoots fifty sixth, you know, and you know that don't help help the team. You finished tenth, but he shoots seventy five, it's not as big a deal. Whereas now, like every round really really matters. And so if you're a new guy playing tour on a sponsored GECS and you're in eighteenth place going to Sunday, like that's a lot of pressure, and so every shot counts so much more, Every round counts so much more. Every round meets something about getting you know, your points for the web dot Com twur Finals or getting your tour card that way, or I don't know. Every shot just means so much more that you're playing under so much more pressure than I think.

00:26:12
Speaker 3: That. Yeah, you see that with the web dot com so much too. Is like one shot is the difference between twenty second and getting another start. Say you don't have full status, and one shot then drops you to like fortieth because they're so bunched together and there's so much talent down there, and the differentiation is a lot of times is just having your bad round be a seventy one versus a seventy three is the huge difference because almost every tournament you're gonna have one bad round. And the guys that can have their bad rounds. And I think this is what is so great about Speed is his bad He plays horrible and shoots sixty nine somehow.

00:26:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was Tiger skill too. And I think the thing when guys got from college, they don't I don't think they're used to a feeling final round pressure when they start to final round thirty, third place or whatever, they kind of do. Whereas on the Web that's a huge thing because you've got it was up eighth spots to get a start for next week.

00:27:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's interesting.

00:27:12
Speaker 3: So speaking of you know, pressure and playing well at the right time, the Walker Cup team selection is going to be made right after the US am and and this has got to be, you know, one of the years where there's more great players and more kind of unknown who's gonna get these last spots? For Spider Miller, I don't envy the position he's in because there's probably about twenty guys that you could make a case deserve to be on this team.

00:27:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the other thing that gets thrown in the mix is, you know, if a total unknown win be a manager, is from the US, he takes a spot, as he should. But that makes the things up too. And it's interesting the first year that they're going to name the whole team have to be a fanager, which I'm sure some guys, you know, they have a good sense will beyond the team, but you almost have to feel like that's a good way to go. It's just because there's so much, like you said, so tightly packed that it's hard to maybe pick yourself, you know, have five or six guys picked by this time already like they usually would have. So I don't know. I don't think that change was received the best by some people. I know that thoughts articles against it because guys are just kind of into dark all someone. I get it. But at the same time you kind of need complexibility of how tightly packed the race of soccers.

00:28:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know there's there is this aspect of the Walker Cup where it's you have to be a USGA guy to get the spot they value. It's not all about merit of play, which you can say it's right or wrong, but there is something about the USGA where you had, you know, perfect example is John Peterson, you know the Walker Cup year, wins the Jones Cup, which is one of the biggest amateur events and the NCAAs and doesn't get a spot because of his personality. Yes, so so you've got this kid that, by playing merit was a probably the best amateur player in the country and didn't get a spot. So that is a little bit interesting of a And you probably see the same thing with the Ryder Cup and Captain's picks, where you know, they don't necessarily take the best guy, they take the right guy.

00:29:30
Speaker 2: For the team.

00:29:32
Speaker 3: And this year, so looking at it, you know, I think there are four clear locks and maybe five.

00:29:40
Speaker 2: Depending on how you break it down.

00:29:42
Speaker 3: I've got in their Stewart Hagastad, who's the reigning US Midam champ member at LA Country Club and then also was a low am at the Masters, qualified for the US us Open, and he'll be playing the US Am this week. But I think he's he's a guarantee because of that mid eight. You know, they want to keep a mid am spot, and he's been one of the more impressive players regardless of age.

00:30:10
Speaker 2: In uh an amateur golf.

00:30:12
Speaker 3: Then you've got Cameron Champ who people recognize that name from the US Open, but he's also been on a tear. He won the trans Miss and finished runner up at the Pacific Coast Am, got to the semi finals of the Western Am last week. I think he's a lot Mav McNeely. I think just for pedigree, he was longtime world number one player. He's in there, he's made the he's made the cut in his last two starts on the PGA Tour. UH. And then you've got Braden Thornberry, who NCAA champ UH and then he also won the Jones Cup and he won the Sunny Hannah the a couple of weeks ago, so yeah, I mean, and then you've got the t fourth at FedEx Saint Jude, so so decade, he's got to be in there.

00:31:02
Speaker 2: Do you have anybody else that you would consider locks?

00:31:05
Speaker 1: I think I was. It's by lossing Unity Shocks, they weren't picked. I think you've got to put Colin Moore Collom in there. It's maybe a name that people aren't quite as familiar with because he's he hasn't, you know, played a tour or he hasn't played a PGA Tour event, he hasn't, you know, really played a major, And so I think that it's a name that people outside of the amateur and college that aren't familiar with. But last year he loses the playoffs to Alie Schneider James in a web dot Com tour event. He win in the Sunny Hannah last year. He loses the playoffs of Braydon Thornberry this year, and then he wins the Northeast, which is about as high as they had an amateur event up there in the upper of the Pechelan. First team All American at CAL was second in the transmits. So I think Markowa. I think he's got to be on there'd be completely socked if he wasn't. Yeah.

00:31:54
Speaker 3: I was having a discussion with somebody and last week, and he might be the bestmateur player in the game right now. I think he's number one in the scratch players rankings, which you know, we can talk. We could probably talk for an hour about the different amateur rankings and what's the best one. But I think that one of the things that's most overlooked is that that kid, what he did in the web dot Com event last year. I mean that that is unbelievable to lose in a playoff at the web dot Com level, and I mean he lost to a very very good player in Ali Schneider.

00:32:28
Speaker 2: Chance.

00:32:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think I think of the final round sixty four, is it a pretty impressive fun round to get into the playoffs. So I think he I think you're right. I think that you know, we often rate our amateurs by how well we know them based on what they've done. Is you know, televise the vans us will been n CBA champion, you know masters, that kind of stuff. But Warrankalla hasn't done anything really there per se the web event was not on television. I don't believe, And so I think that he's one of those guys who parked. Fans will know that. I think more people need to know about them.

00:33:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, so then you know, so that gives us to five players in get for sure if we if we put more cow in, and the Walker Cup, unlike the Ryder Cup, is only ten spots, so.

00:33:17
Speaker 2: A little bit less.

00:33:17
Speaker 3: I mean, if it was twelve, I feel like it would help out Spider Miller so much. Because here's where it gets kind of crazy is you've got guys like Sam Burns, who just finished top ten in a at the Barbersol and you know one five I think times in the NCAA season. You've got and I think Sam Burns is turning pro after the Walker Cup. You've got Scotty Scheffler, who is a former US Junior Champion and then also was the low am at the US Open.

00:33:50
Speaker 2: So that's it. That's it.

00:33:52
Speaker 3: Scheffler is a good example of a USGA guy, wouldn't you say?

00:33:57
Speaker 1: I think so. I think one of the things, a couple of things always helped with guys trying to make this team the USCA. I think they always favor a lot their past champions. So Styty Sheffer won the junior years ago, but I think they like to have some of their past champions on the team and also being on other U s GA teams, which there's not that many of them, but you know, Scheffler and Brad dalky Is along with that. Kpeely played in the World Amateur team last year, and I think that definitely helps your candidacy. I think there are as you kind of said, USCA guys and I think a big part of that is when a USCA evans is playing on the USCA teams, I think it definitely helps both their candidacies.

00:34:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean Scheffler is a guy that is it's hard to ignore what he's done.

00:34:42
Speaker 2: I mean, he almost won the NCAA's.

00:34:44
Speaker 3: You know, you don't even you don't always see the consistency out of him, but he always seems to be around in big events. You know. I think he made the cut and the other US Open he played in, and uh, you know, he's he's a big time player.

00:34:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think low m at us opened meats a lot, so I think he has got to be I think he's got to be a lot. I think I'd almost threw him into that category. I'd be shocked that he was not on my team.

00:35:09
Speaker 2: M hm.

00:35:09
Speaker 3: So so that, you know, and in Burns is I don't think you can really ignore Burns either. I mean, he was arguably the best player in college golf last year.

00:35:20
Speaker 1: In the US Open at Oakland, played very well at the Barbersol. I think finished sixth. I think he's builded more quiet on the amateur front, but his college play was so strong. And then I think finishing six even if it is a PG Tour event that's played offs with the Open Championship, I still think, I mean, that can't be ignored.

00:35:38
Speaker 3: So if you put those two guys on you, you're you're up to seventh spots and then I know you're already exactly, but then you go down into this. You know, an interesting one is is Dylan Meyer unbelievable college season and then last year in the summer he won the Western Am, made a deep run at the US Am and you've got him sitting here, but he hasn't been his form of late hasn't been that good since you know, he he had this this stomach issue and you know, he had to be hospitalized during the college season, and since he you know, he hasn't been you know, he hasn't gotten back to that form that we saw last summer or during the college season.

00:36:19
Speaker 2: What do you do with a guy like that.

00:36:23
Speaker 1: I think it's a tough one. It kind of reminds me of Scott Langley a little bit. In two thousand and ten, Langley finished sixteenth at the US Open, a pebble maybe the quarters of the USA and the Chambers, and played on that World Amateur team. I think Byer was a first alternat for last year's World Amateur team. Langley the next year is he lost the game and started playing pretty poorly, and he didn't get picked for that that locks up team. And really the start of twenty eleven he probably you know, top three among sailors for that team. And I think unfortunately Bilan right, a little bit of a kid. I think that, you know, last year's ultimately carry you so much, and I think that he's gonna have to do a lot at the US Amateur to get on that team. I think almost I'd say Nick Hardy, his teammate, has a better chance right now of getting on that Walker Cup team.

00:37:12
Speaker 2: Yep.

00:37:12
Speaker 3: Hardy is an interesting one too. He's he's right on the on the bubble. He hasn't had any big wins, but if you look at all the big events, you see him in the top five, top ten every single time. So the consistency is there, and I think he's a He's a guy that is a big team guy in terms of you know, a guy you that people want on their team. So it'll be interesting to see what happens with Hardy.

00:37:41
Speaker 1: Balanin of Mind saying Blaine Barber in twenty eleven, Blaine didn't really have a big wing to really hang a hat on, but just very consistent and a guy who, again a big team guy, is popular with his teammates, and so U you know, we always rate these amateurs. I think by their big wing. What's their big wing that we can define him as any only chance being US Anaer champion or whatever. So I think guys who are consistent get overlooked because of that. But I think, you know, Hardy, he made the cut of Chambers Day and played pretty well. Maye be cut of John Deere over the summer, and then I just showing the Western and so I think Hardy is kind of like that's, you know, not the big win, but very consistent and and just a strong, a strong player who I think gets overlooked a little bit.

00:38:21
Speaker 3: I really think Hardy's game translates well to the next level. Also, when I look at these guys and and who who I see succeeding and making it to the PGA Tour, I think Hardy is a guy he's been.

00:38:34
Speaker 2: He's such a good stroke play player.

00:38:36
Speaker 3: And in with the with the the PGA Tour, Web Tour, I mean there's only one non stroke play event. I think he's a guy that translates so well to the next level. You know, the one thing he doesn't have the greatest match play record if you're if you're looking at the smallest things to differentiate these guys. Another crazy thing is that ill So I'm obviously a Chicago native. You know, we've had seven Walker Cuppers ever from Illinois, and this year we could have two between Nick Hardy and then Doug gimm who plays at Texas. Doug he won the Pacific Coast am and he's a real steady player. He's in the he's number seven in the wagger rankings and then in the scratch players rankings.

00:39:23
Speaker 2: He's four. He's a guy that you kind of almost put in this lock.

00:39:28
Speaker 1: Category, I think so. I mean, I think we're almost up to like seven or eight locks. And really, you know, again, if you're throwing a random USN chance, there's like one or two places for wibble room. Which is funny cause I think there's about six guys we'll be able to mentioned pretty soon here who are gonna be on that bubble. So yeah, I don't know it's gonna be the finest pair. It's gonna be kind of a separator for who gets those final couple spots.

00:39:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:39:56
Speaker 3: I mean you go down a little bit further and you see Sean Krack, who he won the Porter Cup last year, was a star at UCLA, but you know, recently he got into contention on the European Tour. You've got Dawson Armstrong, who is the twenty fifteen Western Am champ. He I think he kind of has an interesting case because he gets slighted by playing at Lipscomb, a smaller school, and he doesn't have necessarily the level of competition that can help him in these world.

00:40:29
Speaker 2: Rankings, but he ends up finishing really high.

00:40:32
Speaker 3: You've got Brad Dalky, who's the you know star at Oklahoma. He had a really rough stretch but seemingly is back to top form. Scott Harvey another Midham. I just unless he makes like a very deep run at the us AM, I don't think he has a chance. Norman Jong who was the Western AM who swept the medalist and the match play of the Western Am, Derek Bard who made a deep run, and former USAM finalist John Oda, Jimmy Stanger.

00:41:07
Speaker 2: Who who do you like of this group? Uh getting a spot?

00:41:13
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is gonna come down to the USAM. Uh, you know, kind of like I remember back to nine, you line, A big part of what God on the team was making the quarters. He had a bad college. He gets the quarters of Southern Hills and gets put on the team because of that. That UFN Stormers kind of put him over the top. And so I think so much you're gonna come down to the USM and you're gonna have matches that kind of are between hopeful guys. I think it's a West Coast guy. I think Oda doesn't get enough credit. Oda Mundant wallfight for the Sony also this year, and I'm always intrigued. I think Sahita Gala is the guy who has as resume. I don't think he's done enough to get on the team per se, but you know he could make a run of grit Vi Era. I think Pepperdine does play there a little bit, and he shot sixty seven in the first round UH Northern Trust this year. But I think Dalky showed that the squad or showed the selection committee what they needed to see. Finished second in metal play at the Western End. I think Norman Jong deserves to be on the team, but he might have just come on too late. He's so young and still kind of new to the amateur seed. I mean, he was supposed to be in the second semester of his in new year of high school this hat spring, but he came out early, played the Oregon was freshman of the Year and half a year, so I think skill wise, I think Jong deserves maybe more of a look than you know he might be getting because he's so new the amateur scene sort of. But I think Dalky, I think USCA guy US amateur runner up, played so at the Western showed that his game might be back in the right direction. I think Dalky might have his player lead on that. U.

00:42:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you can't overlook will Zala Turres either. He's a former USGA champion, won the Junior and then also won last year transmiss and in terms that he's uh if he if he could put.

00:43:04
Speaker 2: I was told by a.

00:43:08
Speaker 3: Guy that's a potential Walker cupper that will Zela Taurus might be one of the ten best ball strikers in the world period.

00:43:17
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean that's what the whole Boston's whole decade thing kind of started with. He plays at the same club as Alan Fords. He said, you hit it so good, if you just let me tell you where to hit it, you'll win, and Will did win. I think I've heard Will is like world flip flutter unfortunately, but it holds it back, and so I think that is definitely true.

00:43:40
Speaker 3: I I definitely think I agree with you on the John Oda thing. I think he might be the most overlooked and underrated guy, uh in in all of amateur golf. He also qualified for the US Open, so and I mean he was he was nothing, but you know, consistent mister consistent at UNLV, but he always seems to get overlooked. Probably because he's you know, there's that West Coast bias.

00:44:03
Speaker 2: Uh he's out in Hawaii.

00:44:04
Speaker 3: Uh huh. So I I think it'll be really interesting to see and I agree that this this US AM is gonna be a big definer of you know, kind of who gets in. And you know, I'll put together a little bit more color on this in an article, but it's it's it's a crazy situation for for Spider Miller and who he's gonna have to pick, uh from, because you can you can make a case for all of these guys.

00:44:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, Odor was the first Team All American. I mean he was you that's one of the top eight guys in college all basically, I think, you know, so he's won the player the US Open as well. I would love to see Dawson make it just someone different, you know, a different kind of tool than our usual powerhouse. But uh, I think it's almost those tight this year that they really might not be any controversy because there's just more guys than our spots. Unfortunately, h it's not very clear. Hut. I mean we I think there's five to seven clear cut guys, but then there's like ten guys who are deserving of those last two or three spots.

00:45:08
Speaker 3: And and I think there's another little underlying factor is like guys like John Oda, John Oda and Sean Crocker, they these guys have delayed turning professional for this. I mean they're both they're they're both planning to go pro after the Walker Cup.

00:45:26
Speaker 2: Is like, does that weigh in that these.

00:45:28
Speaker 3: Guys have made a personal sacrifice to, you know, try and make this team.

00:45:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think at the point Ryan Latner made an article when his whole announcement schedule was released, if they weren't to announced the team until has to be with amateur. It's that, you know, and it's hard. You don't want to You can't just tell guys, ooh you're on the team. Uh so they might you know, who knows what might happen to like asuers might start playing that. But it is hardening. These are people's wivelihoods in a sense. You know, this is summer of a summer of freshman golfs. They could be playing. I don't know, It's it's not an end enegyable position in the sense. Sam Burns is the same. I mean Sam Burns put that on Twitter that he was turning Brow after the Walking Cup because he wanted to try to play to represent his countries. And I think, though I don't as tight as things are, I don't think you can give people, you know, a god in that direction just for that that reason. But it is curious to see if they keep doing this they don't announce the team until August, if more guys start to turn pro you know, in June and don't try to make the team. We realize that tough of weak year to try to do it. But I think to the walk Cuff has written in such a stature, so many guys were stars on tour, and I speaks so highly of it from Jordan speak and Rickie Fowler and Justin Thomas it. I think it's such a goal that I think the guys are willing to make that sacrifice.

00:46:51
Speaker 3: I'd also be interested from the economic sense of what happens to your sponsorship deal If you play in a.

00:47:00
Speaker 2: Walker Cup, you know how much?

00:47:02
Speaker 3: How much is that worth and your initial deal is it one hundred thousand dollars honor or is it you know, fifty or does it really not matter?

00:47:11
Speaker 2: From an agent standpoint, I think.

00:47:17
Speaker 1: I think, like you said, I think we rate amateurs so much by their accomplishment that we can kind of put on their resume and how good the resume looks, which I think sometimes we can can overrate guys who have pretty resumes, and we can underrate guys who don't have the big wins but are very skilled players. I think of to talk about the big party that it's all about the resume. Pro so to walk us up on there and to say that you did something that guy like George Peter's and comments have done, I think it's worth a lot of money. I think I wouldn't surprised that kind of estimate that you gave is not that far off.

00:47:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's got to be really big for sponsors exemptions too, and getting and getting those seven full starts and that full opportunity, because I mean they're perfect. Example is a guy like Charlie Danielson, four time All American.

00:48:04
Speaker 2: At Illinois, but you know, no.

00:48:07
Speaker 3: Huge win, no huge honor, and he's not he hasn't gotten you know, as many sponsors exemptions as a guy like Bo Hostler got, who was a you know, Haskins Award winner, Hogan. He didn't win the Hogan Award, but Haskins Award winner, you know, clear cut Walker Cupper, you know, had all this success from a young age with the US Open at age seventeen.

00:48:31
Speaker 2: So it I mean, this is a big deal. Is getting onto this Walker Cup team?

00:48:37
Speaker 1: Definitely? And I mean it's the power of television and Bo Hostler. You know, most people when they see Bo Hostler's name, they think US Open, Olympic Club, and so that's to be on television. So I think anything you can do that gets you on TV helps so much when he turned bro because sponsors want attention to the tournament and so some amateur star who can in it at a tour event that people got to know. It's such a big deal when I mean you look for sponsor redemption than when you're making a name as manager.

00:49:09
Speaker 3: So with the success of with the success of the NTAs, uh, do you foresee a world where and especially as television coverage gets easier with like that new technology. I was thinking about it at the Western m like eventually you're gonna be able to televise stuff with drones and stuff like that.

00:49:27
Speaker 2: Do you do you foresee you know, more amateur golf being on TV?

00:49:35
Speaker 1: I think so, I don't know what the hang up has been, to be honest, because like you said, you can it's much cheaper to do it now. I think part of it is I think with Golf Channel there's so many tours that they televised that there's not that much rooms, especially during the summer. It would be interesting. I don't know, you know, NCAA is that's so well writing wise, because there's so much on the line. I don't know how well your run of the Mill college event would do. I don't know how well you're you know, even Sotithern Highlands such a great of vein, but there's not that passion if you're not playing for the national championships. So I don't know that College balt out of Ancila would do very well rating wise. I do wonder, you know, if you can maybe somehow do it online and do it through you know, the way we do like PG two are live that kind of stuff. It's just hard. I think when we're you know, you're amateur, and antiv as are good viewing because again there's just so much on the line that you might not have it your other amateur events.

00:50:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was thinking, you know, the Western End would be a cool one to eventually get on television.

00:50:41
Speaker 2: But yeah, I agree with that.

00:50:43
Speaker 3: It's it's tough and it's such a small niche audience. It's I mean, there's a lot of passionate fans and a lot of people that care. But at the end of the day, it's not. But I mean, likewise, you go back to it and it's you. You start to know who these future stars of the tour are.

00:51:01
Speaker 1: Totally. But I think it's all when it got turned pro. It's all about one night he's on TV. I think as far as it is general fantos, I mean famous feat when he turned pro and obviously he was very good. People know him from the Fyron Nelson, so he's intended.

00:51:14
Speaker 2: In mm hmm. Yeah, I completely agree. Hey, you want to get out of here on some overrated underrated.

00:51:21
Speaker 1: I don't think I can leave without doing it.

00:51:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's I guess I got some good ones for you. Let's go with the Western m.

00:51:32
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say underrated only because I think, I mean, it's pretty of the drop amateur wise, and I think most amateur golf is underrated, so I gotta go underrated.

00:51:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's the best field I like it is. I think it's the Masters of Amateur Golf.

00:51:49
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm glad that the US Amateur I'm glad that they put in the top fifty world ranking exemptions and but still some of that field is qualified that you get some name to mit out because they didn't qualify. Think of an I think Lazy needs to go to its own strow play individual championship because you have guys who don't get to go because their team. You know, you get the number five right of school, his teammagers, so he plays in a championship. But then the number one player from a smaller school, that's make the The.

00:52:22
Speaker 3: Perfect example is Colin Morikawa didn't make it to the NCAAs this year, and that's that's the number one player in the world, and that's a huge problem for the ncaa as.

00:52:33
Speaker 2: I completely agree.

00:52:34
Speaker 3: I think they need to create a separate individual championship where you take say the top one hundred players from the Sagarin ranking, and then you have a couple individual qualifiers, and then you need to have, you know, the the the team championship. And maybe it's it's doing it opposite the women's So when the women's are are doing their team championship, it's the men's individual. When the men's team championships happening, it's the women's individual totally.

00:53:06
Speaker 2: So I agree with that. Let's do Riviera overrated, underrated?

00:53:12
Speaker 1: Oh man, that one. I feel like it's very well rated, but I just can't give it. Uh, you can't do that. I'm gonna go. I know that's a copa. I can't do it. I'm gonna go underrated. I think most things on the West Coast are and I thought West Coast bias or East Coast bias is a total, you know, excuse until I live on East Coast and then I realized forty events starts a late year everything else that really East Coast bide is definitely a thing. So almost everything on the West Coast is underrated.

00:53:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think it it.

00:53:46
Speaker 3: I look at Riviera and I see how it could be so much better.

00:53:51
Speaker 2: I don't think they did.

00:53:52
Speaker 3: They got the best renovation done by Tom Fazio.

00:53:55
Speaker 2: And if you got if you got.

00:53:57
Speaker 3: That thing, you know a little bit more with than the fairways and brought back. I mean, like the tenth hole kind of got change. It's obviously the most one of the most high condic holes in golf. But I think it could be even better if they fix the green.

00:54:14
Speaker 1: So next one, Quinn, I elected a tenth hole real quick. This is an unpopular take on the tenth hole, but I think they've got to shave down so much of that rough on the left side. So if you look, the ideal angle where you're shooting right up the green to have the whole green to work with is in the left rock basically, and I feel like that needs to be fairway to allow you to try to play the proper angle while you're hitting up the green.

00:54:36
Speaker 3: You know what I love about that too, is it's such a that strategy and is like counterintuitive, and that's what makes golf so great is like that strategy is hitting at forty yards left of the green when all you want to do, like everything about golf is hitting it at a target. And having your target shift to forty yards left is such a such a cool, little unique quirk. I love holes where you know you look at it and it you know you've got this wide fairway, say it's eighty yard wide fairway, but the depending on the pin, the strategy is to hit it.

00:55:12
Speaker 2: Down the very right edge of the fairway or the very left edge of the.

00:55:15
Speaker 3: Fairway where you know, yeah, I mean that's what we were talking about with strategy and kind of how that could be the next smart thing.

00:55:26
Speaker 1: One of the cool things of speak strategy from Royal Birthdale that he kind of talked about at the Bridgetone was that the rough, as most people know is pretty low at Birkdale, is pretty playable and obviously the pop bunkers are pretty penal. It's basically a once ro penalty. So his I'm at the te shot on thirteen way, blew it way right and I once said it's one hundred yards from the center of the fairways. He's like, yeah, but it was like thirty yards from right of my target because his target was the right rough. Because the rough and very playable, it gave you a good angle from over there, and the pop bunker to the left side of the fairway was so penal that he was lashing it into, uh, basically the light rough on the on the right side.

00:56:02
Speaker 3: It's interesting because you you look at his driving stats from the week and he hit so few fairways, but then so many greens and it's all angles.

00:56:13
Speaker 1: It's total I mean, he his his stairway on a lot of holes was the rough because the rough was so playable and top bunkers are so penal that he said, all right, let's just hit it in the rough because the penalties of the rocks is basically non existent. That's why it was definitely very deceptive when if you look at his driving stats, thought he drove a horribly when in reality was really just great strategy.

00:56:31
Speaker 3: It's it's interesting, I mean, that's that is such a tiger thing to do, where Tiger knew everywhere to miss and just you know a lot of times was aiming down rough lines just because he knew from there he was, you know. And it's it's similar to Jordan, where Jordan's hit his approach shots have become such a weapon. You know, Tiger was so good with his irons that Andy was so strong out of the rough that it didn't really matter.

00:57:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's it's getting talked about for more. But i mean Jordan's literally number one on tour and stroke stained a post the green and we'll not make all his big huts at the end of the Open. But his putting is not where it was a couple of years ago, and so it's almost like, if you combine the way he's hitting it this year with his best hutting, it could be you know, you don't want to make predictions. Golf's hard and it's kind of like whack themle where one thing gets good and then another part of your getting struggles. But if he can combine those somehow, I mean, it's a really strong play that he could start pretty thick. Yeah he has already.

00:57:30
Speaker 3: It's uh, he's a.

00:57:34
Speaker 2: He's a transcendent talent.

00:57:35
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, it's he does it in a completely different way than Tiger does it, and it's not as glamorous or pretty. And sure watching Rory hit three hundred and fifty yard bombs off the tee is really entertaining. But and Jordan's never going to be somebody that's like, wow, that was a really pretty sixty five, But you know, it's pretty in its own way.

00:57:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm talking to name was Tron, But I think we underrate Speke as a ball striker because of his reactions after the shot, Like, you know, he's talking to it and he doesn't you know, he's yelling at his ball and that kind of stuff. But you know on TV, you don't see the ball flight, you see the player swing the fallow through the reaction that you see it land. And so when you're when you're basing it based on all their reactions, then you think Speke's hitting it bad. In reality, it's just he has very high exctations for himself and the end results ending up is actually very good. So I think that's one reason why, and also because it's not as elegant as Rory that he underrated as a ball riker.

00:58:35
Speaker 3: I also it's interesting because I think that that's an example of where Space flaws with his driver, where he doesn't have this I think, you know, Rory doesn't ever look at a hole and think I can't hit this shot with a driver. Where Space looks at a hole and says, wow, I can't miss that left and so he aims in the right rough And it's where a flaw turns into strength, where yeah, where Rory might end up in that left bunker because he has a supreme confidence in his driver.

00:59:12
Speaker 1: What is it? I think it's like a McKenzie line about how you keep uh, you keep egging people into basically taking on more and more and more and then they kind of get finally they get bitten, and so they kind of back off and they keep taking on more and more and more until they get again. It's kind of like that.

00:59:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's interesting. The psychology of design is a underrated.

00:59:33
Speaker 2: Aspect of architecture. I think. Yeah, next topic, Quail Hollow.

00:59:40
Speaker 1: Who uh, I'm gonna go overrated. I think that early returns, especially from the players, is that I don't think they're hugely in favor of what was done here. And I think, you know, you had a golf course. Obviously you have some low scores, but you had a golf course that I think people liked. It was uh and now it's just hard where they had some character before and yeah, it was very scorable, that had a lot of character, and now it's just it's just hard. And so I think I think that the early return from players are that it's not they don't love it as much as they love to leave renovation. And I think just again, because we have three par fours over five hundred yards, it's just hard. Now.

01:00:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.

01:00:29
Speaker 3: I was talking to Polly my Picks guy last night and he uh, he brought up a great point is the guys that start on the back nine and have to do the green mile to end, and then it rolls right in one through four, which is now really very very difficult, Like that six and seven hole stretch there is all of a sudden, you know, and six or seven like extremely difficult.

01:00:55
Speaker 2: Holes in a row.

01:00:56
Speaker 3: Is so hard to play as a player, I mean, you you need almost a break at some point. So it'll be interesting to see if we see any discrepancy in the guys that have to tee off on the back nine first, or you know it just when like scoring average, just from the psychology of it of back nine starts versus front night starts. Obviously everybody gets one of each, but it'll be interesting to see if you can pull any statistical differences in that.

01:01:27
Speaker 1: That's true. That's a really good point for Paulie. I have a friend who's deep in Paulie. He thinks he's a genius. But those that's a brutal seven whole stretch to have to play them consecutively.

01:01:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pauli is Pauli is very very smart.

01:01:41
Speaker 3: He's a really good player, which I think helps when you're extremely.

01:01:45
Speaker 2: Good with numbers and a good good golfer.

01:01:48
Speaker 3: I think he pulls a little bit more than a lot of a lot of other guys do. Yeah, so last one, the career Grand Slam underrated, overrated.

01:02:03
Speaker 1: Oh I'm gonna go underrated. I think it's so hard. I mean, not only if you do it, it's four different types of of tournaments. Obviously the US Open, you know, it has different identities, but usually it's a US Open and thick rough neural failies, that kind of stuff. But it's winning on so many different types of tournaments, and there's only four majors of a year, and I think, really, once you get to that, once you've got three legs, I think it's so hard. I think Rory is already starting to feel it every time he goes to Augusta. And Augusta's difference to wait eight months, but every time he goes to Augusta, it's all that pressure on him. And you know, I think I saw somewhere that all the guys who completed it, they completed it within like three tries mm hm. And you look at like Tom Watson and Arnold Palmer for the to them as the PGA that that kept them from doing it. I mean, you have great players who won three legs winning all four. I think it's really hard because once you once you have three of them down, it gets so the pressure gets so high. Yeah, I think it's amazing.

01:03:13
Speaker 3: Stat I had I had a sports psychologist on and he talked about how a lot of times great play comes from low expectations and when you don't you know, the idea of trying to treat every tournament the same, and it almost becomes impossible when you're going for the career Grand Slam.

01:03:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think too. Another good point is really the Grand Slam didn't become a thing until really Arnold Palmer kind of nineteen sixty, he won the Masters in the US Open and then we're going over to Saint Andrews and that's really when the Grand Slam hype kind of started. You had Bobby Jones version, but the poor professional majors and so you know, you look at Sarazen and Hogan. The Grand Slam wasn't really much of a thing when they did it. Hogan, I mean he did after the bus crash. That makes it amazing himself. But really, so you only had three guys, I think, you know, player Nicholas and Tiger who did it after the Grand Slam really became a sting. That's the three guys in the last fifty something eaters. So that shows how hard it is.

01:04:17
Speaker 3: You know, I saw I forgot who tweeted it last night somebody tweeted that the Tiger Slam is being diminished. Oh is Brian Atkinson. The Tiger Slam is being diminished because of the PGA move.

01:04:32
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's crazy and I'm not trying to tell the Players as a fifth major, but in the midst of the Tiger Slams, Tiger also won the Players. So he won the five biggest titles that you can win and golf in a row because back then the Players was in March. He won the Players before he won the Masters to cap off the Tiger Slams, and so I think that makes it even that much more nut.

01:04:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's uh, it's it's crazy. It's I mean, that is actually something that's never been talked about. But I mean because the Sagress was like arguably one of the worst setups for Tiger.

01:05:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, it's you know, it's your distance is not an advantage, it's placing your ball. It's a strategy. It's, you know, a lot of discipline to hit lesser clubs off the tee. You don't overpower that golf course in massage a way around it.

01:05:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, and not getting over aggressive on approach shots either. So hey, you know I can't leave you without asking. I we're running along here. But what about Uh?

01:05:34
Speaker 2: What about Hideki?

01:05:37
Speaker 1: Overrated? Underrated?

01:05:38
Speaker 3: No?

01:05:38
Speaker 2: Just just Hideki? What what is he.

01:05:42
Speaker 3: Is? He? The most underrated him in the Japanese media, the most underrated story in sports, in golf.

01:05:50
Speaker 1: Uh, at least in golf, I mean, Hideki's number three in the world and leading the FedEx company. He doesn't even come into the media center of the PGA for a pre round interview.

01:05:57
Speaker 2: Uh.

01:05:58
Speaker 1: Now, granted, obviously a lot of that language barrier, but still, I mean, at least I've read Augusta. Augusta brings him in, and I think, actually, I think he did a pretty good interview at Augusta. I remember I asked himim like, are you ever happy to be a ball striking? And he basically said no, because he's somehow bad he was hitting it. Of course, he finished like eleventh that week, top of team and all three majors. The sixty one was the best final round from strokes gain perspective this year. I mean, three wins this year. I think hardcore underrated, probably the most of all the things we talked about today, most underrated of all of them. And I get it. The language barrier makes them hard to cover and it makes it harder plans to get to know him. But I mean, it's pretty crazy what he did last week and and what he's done in the majors, and I think it's you know, he's not ready to conquer the world.

01:06:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if he wins that he's also a big aspect of growing the game abroad. I hate the tour growing the game, but he is. I think he needs to win a major and you'll see eight. But it has the question how many times has the question been asked?

01:07:09
Speaker 2: Can Headecki win?

01:07:11
Speaker 1: I think two WGCs and I think both of them were about five shots. I think that's worth one major. So I think he can win a major.

01:07:18
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, Yeah, I agree.

01:07:20
Speaker 1: I mean I'm gonna say affirmative yet.

01:07:22
Speaker 3: Sixty one final round and then he says he didn't he didn't trust his swing is just out of control.

01:07:29
Speaker 1: Well, Donnie Pepler said that his final round, like his warm up for the final round, was atrocious, which I think it often is. I think he's like a lot of players, though, I think that once you know, once the gun sounds, that he gets ready to go, and he's a gamer. I think I think I think he's very talented in the sense that I don't think he swings how he wants you very often, but he just saves shots through impact and just you know, it feels weird to impact. That's why he one hands it. He doesn't like it and whatever, but then it ends up okay. I think he's got that innate kind of club face awareness that still has talked about that he can just save shots and end with good shots, even on swings that he's not happy with.

01:08:06
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, there's an old adage that like the best player is the player who misses the best because like Hogan used to say, you only hit four perfect shots per round.

01:08:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's.

01:08:18
Speaker 3: Like Hideki gets penalized because he outwardly reacts to his poor shots in it and its yeah, but yeah exactly, and it's just like, well, like he's just being honest because like the reality is he only probably you only probably hit five or six perfect shots in a round of golf. Yeah, so it's, uh, he just misses really well. So I mean that that's a big thing. And it's always just if he putts really well, he's gonna win.

01:08:49
Speaker 1: Totally. Oh yeah, I mean that's what he went on that chair. What was it like seven events fits fall. I think that he finished first or second and all of them I think like five wins and two seconds something and Putting, well, you've got to learn how to get back rad I'm not sure if you will, but but hey, Putting doesn't play an international team on his back. Yeah, President's kyt so I could were we talking about this? I think putting, I think, yeah, I won't hit it great. As you said, putting is a differentiator. So you have to hit the ball at a certain level to make it to the PGA Tour and to be elite on the PGA Tour. The band you need to cut well to separate yourself. Yeah, you're not gonna be tops into the world hitting it bad.

01:09:29
Speaker 2: See.

01:09:30
Speaker 3: This is my my point is that is everybody likes to look at a singular event in terms of like, oh, look, Jason Duffer, are just one with negative strokes gained putting, Like if putting doesn't matter, you know they do this. But if you look at careers as a whole, show me one person that you feel like has overachieved. That was a really bad putter, right, everybody you say, oh, like that guy, why doesn't that guy win more? And if you almost every time you look at that player and you say, well, it's because they don't put well.

01:10:07
Speaker 1: I think great ball strikers, I mean they're gonna be more consistent because they're gonna give themselves more birdy opportunities. I mean there's a lot more birdie pins for Rory than any other player out there. And so the weeks that he does cut well, it's can win by a ton, and the weeks he cut badly, he finishes tenth. But that's because I mean he just has so many more birdy opportunities than everyone else. And so I think that's the biggest thing. A hot cutter. They can win every once in a while, but week to week consistency and especially greatness where you win a bunch, I mean that's built on very strong balls trikings.

01:10:38
Speaker 2: I mean like Aaron Badley's won five times.

01:10:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's won more times than Gary Woodland.

01:10:47
Speaker 1: True, but I think, yeah, well, and you haven't a complete game honestly, but I think great, great players five plus majors. I would be hard pressed to find a non world class ball striker in the group of guys who want five or more majors.

01:11:01
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I agree.

01:11:02
Speaker 3: I mean it's it's ball striking gets you to uh into contention and putting wins you the tournament.

01:11:11
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think Jake Nichols sweet is something like, would you ever have Rory's driving or Spee's putting? And he said, like, what how you answer will determine or will show how much you know about the game, because really, for most people, they could probably benefit most from Rory's driving. I think, uh.

01:11:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I mean if you if you put people where Rory hits his drives, like you're what it is is your ceiling is so high, or your your floor your floor is so low, our floor is so high in your seat, like your floor is so high, Like you can't really play bad from one hundred and thirty yards out in the middle of the.

01:11:47
Speaker 2: Fairway, right.

01:11:50
Speaker 1: Actually, I think Sean Boley's put it best. I use this one a lot. He said, like, all right, let's take my dad, a hunter may Hand or any player Justin Rose, and let's do a shipping context up five balls. You know, my dad might win and once in a while and like ship three of them closer than Justin Rose does. But if we do close to the pain from two hundred yards like my dad's, don't even come within fifty yards of just and just showing that the biggest separation between players happened as the Greatest System League.

01:12:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree, it's it's.

01:12:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's every every level.

01:12:23
Speaker 3: I think, like every level, the biggest difference when you move up is play from like one hundred and fifty yards to fifty yards is the biggest actually like one fifty an end really is when you look at the difference between a really good amateur and a great amateur, or a great amateur and a great pro is I think you hear so much with these guys when they turn pro is what do you have to improve?

01:12:48
Speaker 2: Oh it's my wedge play.

01:12:49
Speaker 3: Like I got out here and realized, like these guys are so good with wedges.

01:12:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, so all right, well I don't want to take.

01:12:57
Speaker 3: Up more of your time. Now we're at like a almost an hour and twenty, but it was.

01:13:02
Speaker 2: It's always good.

01:13:03
Speaker 3: Catching up, always good conversation. Uh be sure to follow uh Sean on Twitter. It's what at s Martin p g A tour PG S Martin PG Tour s Martin H you got any.

01:13:17
Speaker 1: Prize whoever, whoever takes the end of this podcast.

01:13:21
Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of people that get to the end of this they they got to hear the overrated underrated.

01:13:27
Speaker 1: That's true. This one's very long though. I'm looking at my phone right now.

01:13:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all right. You know, if if people don't want to listen, they'll just stop listening.

01:13:34
Speaker 1: So one and a half, one and a half speed and the key on podcasts too.

01:13:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I I've never gone into the one and a half speed.

01:13:42
Speaker 2: You you you write about it? All right? You got any articles coming out this week?

01:13:48
Speaker 3: What are you?

01:13:49
Speaker 2: What are you writing about?

01:13:51
Speaker 1: I wrote one? I talked to Brian Harmon actually at a uh accurate and it was actually a really good interview. I thought, you know, Brian Harmon, Brian Harman was like the team Senam before we had social media, Like he made a tour cut at seventeen. He's the number one amateur in the world before he started college, youngest guy to playing the Walker Cup and he's thirty now obviously has two tour wins, run up the US Open, and kind of talks about how, you know, there's always that, always a little guy chip on his shoulder, and you know, which there's truth that he always plays well after he gets motivated, but about he's like, man, I turned thirty this year and then it's basically like not that the end is near, but like I guess started, you know, I guess started doing what I thought I would always do. And it was just interesting hearing a guy who once was this senam the kind of guys were brave about now when we talk about Walker Cup and such, who hasn't done what he thought he could and kind of how realizing his own maybe mortality and golf mortality has really kind of inspired the next play this season. I don't I thought it was very honest and open, uh for a tool player. And I'm writing ory today, but everyone's writing ory today. So hey, I'll uh, he'll get some good.

01:14:54
Speaker 3: I'll put the I'll put the Brian Harmon link in the in the pod description on the site. So but that's I mean I I was the same age as Brian Harmon and he was like he was the He was unbelievable. As a junior, he won everything. He was the clear cut best player in the world at like age seventeen as an amateur.

01:15:19
Speaker 1: He was talking about if he is there Ben Twitter when he was in high school, probably when from high school, because he would have been blown up so much on social media there.

01:15:27
Speaker 2: Uh as well, yeah, it's crazy.

01:15:30
Speaker 3: He was.

01:15:31
Speaker 2: He was so good.

01:15:33
Speaker 3: So all right, well Sean, thanks and uh we'll talk to you soon.

01:15:38
Speaker 1: Done good, thanks man, all right. Later later

01:16:01
Speaker 2: The movement