Mark Blutman Meets World

00:00:17
Speaker 1: Right, Or do you have a cold? Oh yeah, Um, you know, when you have a kid, you're just kind of always sick right now, It's just another awesome reason to have kids on the list. That's great always. Man, It's like, yes, but I also you know, yeah, I mean we obviously, like during COVID there were there was like a year and a half where no one got sick and it was amazing. But now you're just back into the Petri dish. Uh. Yeah, So I feel like I'm always dealing with a cough or if I don't have it, Alex does or Indie one of them. I think he has an ear infection right now where we take him to the doctor. Yeah, how long have you been? How long have you had a cold? Uh? Like five days? Man? Yeah, I can you have to ask nowadays? Have you taken a test? Oh? Yeah, I took tests the first like four days. But it's just clearly a cough, like a regular whatever. But yeah, no, I mean that you know, in some ways you're like, oh, it's it's just gonna be COVID and I'm just gonna deal with it. And then you can sort of like shut everybody down and like go back to but it's like, oh no, it's just a regular cold. So I have to just deal with it and keeping stuff. I have to do stuff. I can't tell everybody to stay away. Exactly. Have you tried that? One of the new, apparently new ways of getting rid of a cold is melting down and drinking cush lings. Have you tried that? Apparently it's really effective. Behind them listen, it's cushly you exactly. That's why Danielle loves them. They're so cool, so cool. I mean, I've been missing out. I'm just eating birthday cake with mine. So it's our skateboarding the other day. Yeah, okay, well, I mean I'm willing to try it. Writer, would you like me to send you some melted cush lying, yes, it would be some melted Well, here's a question, Danielle, do you own any cushlens? Do you still have any? I don't, I joked when we talked about I don't. I know you're probably worth a fortune on eBay. I know, don't. I'm gonna look after this episode before it airs in case it is worth a lot. I ended up buying our writer. I bought our grinders in line video on eBay. I have three copies. I would have given you one for free. Really have three? Little A little known fact. Do you know who drew the cover for the Grinders in Line? Oh? Jason Marston? Really what he drew the cover? Do you remember? Jason used to I don't know if he still knows that he's a great art and he used to do a little cartoons. So we kid, We were like, hey, could you come up with a logo for us? And he created this little Grinders guy like a skateboarder dude making it her face. I don't know, but yeah, that was Jason Marston drew that for us. That's really cool. Danielle is left, by the way, So why shn't we talk about her? What do you really think of Danielle? It's like, you can't. I couldn't even think of anything. I can't even think of anything. I got nothing. They're sh wait, she's back, which is why we love her. I was gonna go find it because it's literally in our office on our bookshelf, right next to where I sit. But I am connected. Can we talk about the fact that I am the only person in this family who puts things back when they move. Things are supposed to have a place, and when they're they live in their place, and when you move them from their place, you put them back in their place, so that when you need them, you know where it is. Oh, you're right. Here's what drives me crazy is like I look at like common space and then like private space. So like countertops in the house, like kitchen countertops, tabletops, that's common space, right. If you do something on that, you put it away when you're direct. Yeah, this does not like that just does not compute with the rest of my family. It's like common space. It's like if I do somebody there, then it just stays there in their mind, and it's it's drives me nuts. And I've like literally screamed and yelled and now I'm just you know, you just accept at a certain point. You're like, we have a yeah, we have a saying in our house, which is a place for everything and everything in its place. Wow. So it's just it's just easier that way for the most heart. I'm not so good with things like tools, so I'd be like, hey, where's the wrench And she's like, you mean the one you used all week? How would I know that? Kind of right? Right? So that's my bad. Very clean will Yeah, you are both very clean people. We are kind of a regiment. You wake up you you know, you make the beds, you do We're swifting all the time because the dog sheds a lot. We do the wash almost every day. Like, yeah, we're good, We're good with that. We share those duties, which is man believe I can't find the grinders in light, Like, where would that have gone? Who used that? Where was that? Jensen might have wanted to learn how to rollerblade? I don't wanted to pop it in. Do you remember that shoot, Danielle, Do you remember making the I do you know? You want to know why? I remember it? I wore I was wearing I was wearing a little crop top and these very adorable like baby blue Jinko pants, and the tiniest little bit of my very flat fourteen year old fifteen neurald stomach was showing. Oh, and I was so all I could think about was that I that I was insecure about my body. Wow. And so I remember a large part of that shoot being um, just hyper aware of being insecure, which is so bad because it was so much fun. And I guarantee you nobody else was thinking at all about my body, but I was obsessed with it. So um. But yes, I do remember that shoot, and I remember it being very fun but also very stressful. Were you yeah, But the property I grew up and we put a nine foot ramp in the woods, like in the Redwood, So it made this beautiful ramp in the middle of the Redwood. But um, and then we brought in all these professional skaters like rollerbladers and skateboard. Dad built the rampire. I don't know who built there. I mean, my dad must have helped oversee it. But but all O remembers that we had the ramp up after the shoot, and then people kids started coming over and using it at our house and we had a broken arm and a skateboard good the face within like two nights, and my dad took out the center of the ramp. He was like, nope, that's it. And the ramps stayed up for a little while, but there was no center to it, so nobody could use it. Right, but it's go. He's like, you can drop in if you want, exactly exactly, but I think it lasted one night after the shoot that we had like a party and everybody came and we all hung out. But I believe the ropes wing my parents property was already up at that point, wasn't it was? It was. That's one of the other things that ropes Wing two that swung out in the middle of the Redwoods was gorgeous. It was fun. Yeah, yeah, so fun. Well, welcome to Pod meets World. I'm Danielle Fisher, I'm Writers Strong, and I'm Wilfride. So our guest today is somebody we know very well. Um. His name is Mark Blutman. He joined Boy Meets World in season two and was a writer for a total of sixteen episodes and a producer for twenty six. That act seem like less to me, right though, I thought Mark was I mean, I know that they ended up leaving before the show ended, and he and Howard who was his co writer, Howard bust Gang. But but yeah, for some reason I thought Mark was there, Like I thought he had written like half of our episodes. He was such a big part of our show. I know, And I guess when you think about like the way those splitting up of episodes. He started in season two. He was there for two, three, four, five, and I think six, I think he only missed the seventh seventh. Yeah, so if he was there for five seasons writing sixteen episodes, you know, that's about three It's a lot a season, which most which works out the way the credit were. Yeah, but I guess because he was an EP an executive producer, he was he lose large as far as that. He probably had his fingers in a lot of different episodes. Yes, he was there. For instance, the fact that there was any wrestling association with boy because which is a huge part of our show in retrospective, huge part of our show. So yeah, we will talk to him about that. Um So he wrote five episodes for season two, Holy Cow talking about how it broke up. He wrote five episodes for season two, and we are obviously currently recapping that season. Um. He eventually became an executive producer and he would later return for Girl Meets World as well. He has always been a very big presence in our lives, but for today it is worth emphasizing he is in like a very integral voice for almost everything you would come to love come to love about Boy Meets World. And let's please say hello to Mark Bluckman. Oh my gosh, the perfect background I love it. Oh my gosh, someone toss m globe. Toss him a globe like I'm going to turn red now, this is really happening, hey, Mark, all of you in your wonderful squares together, I have, like, I have so much to say say to all of you. I'll start with I love you guys so much. And you guys have been such a part of you know, not only the lives of fans, but we've stayed in touch, UM and I've so proudly watch you guys turn into these incredible parents and husbands and wives and just it's amazing and I'm so touched to be here right now. Well, thank you for being here. I think it's downhill after that. Let's just end. That's to your point, though, Mark, I feel like we know you so well, and yet I was thinking about it last night, knowing you were coming on. I don't know how you ended up on boy Meet's World. Tell us the story about how you ended up being our writer and eventually executive producer and all that good stuff. Um. You know. Actually, so at the time I was writing with a partner back in the day, and we were brought in UM season one. We had a meeting with Michael and Don Tarnovski, and I think McCracken may have been there, and mccrackin wouldn't have been there, but maybe David Trainer Trainer maybe in the part of we watched the pilot. Oh okay, just as a part of Michael's company, but not necessarily a part of the Boy Meets World. So he had directed Dinosaurs, he directed other things, but he didn't direct Boy Meets World. And Jeff, for those who don't know, was was also a really talented actor who did series. He was on that was The Bass City Blues or something, the Baseball Show that was done by Bochco and all that was amazing. Yeah, when we get to season three, I'm really hopeful that Jeff will come on and tell us some of his stories because boy man, we love it, and then maybe auction off one of his pieces of art. He is one of the most talented artists I've ever seen. It's incredible. Yeah, he's moved to Connecticut. Shout out to Connecticut again, thank you very right, people from Connecticut. Third homous jokes for Will exactly. You can shout out to Connecticut. They're not gonna hear it. Nutbagers, I need your backing here, Nutmers here, rad you guys by the way, and I'll get to the I'll get to the to answer your question real uh quick, Danielle, Um, what you guys, I listen. I listened to almost every episode. Um, I do it at the gym, on the treadmill, on my uh walk two miles at a one point five inclined congratulation. Nice. And I'm in awe of what you guys do because it's not easy. You guys are going back thirty years. This is time capsule stuff. Yeah, And it's like, imagine if I was doing a show where I went into your closet from thirty years ago, and each day we did another outfit. You're like, oh my gosh, that's how I dressed. Yeah. I thought I was cool. I thought I was so hip and swaggy. And so it's the way you handle it. It's it's so hard. I mean again, thirty years, that's a long time. Yeah, A lot's changed in thirty years. Not Will's closet, but a lot else exactly. Will We probably have some of the same sweaters, Oh I do. Well, we're gonna get into that some of the rewatches where I'm like, still have that sweater. But you know, it's funny. It's funny you say that, though, Mark, because it actually is getting more painful as as as our as we get older. Because when we were when we watched the first season, it was like we were little kids, we were babies, and now I'm like, oh god, I still make that face. Oh god, I still you know, Like now it's like he's like, now that we're in season two, which is your era, it's a whole other world. And yeah, so your point, you guys, you know we're so young, will you were, you know, slightly older, But but there was a shocking element to season two, no doubt. I mean, let's let's be honest, and that'll tie into answering your question, Danielle. So we saw the pilot and we didn't again Bill Daniels, oh my god, and the cast everybody was great. We thought it's skewed a little young for where we were at at the time as writers, and we turned it down. So we didn't end up doing season one. We went off and I think we did a show called Good Advice with Shelley Long and Treat Williams, and it was hard to say no. Also because Bill Daniels, I mean, so one of my closest friends is How We Mendel and how we did a show called Saying Elsewhere with Bill. So I'm on the set almost daily, you know, watching Bill Daniels work and going oh my gosh, this is one And then to say no to doing the show, Um, it was difficult. But then they brought us back for a meeting a year later, and David Kendall I think, was there and Bob Young, and it was there was a lot of talk of we want to age the show up, we wanted to evolve. ABC is asking, and then it was a very fast rise for us too. First of all, I loved David Kendall, like adore him, and so to work you know, with hand Bob Young, and you know, obviously I got to know Michael and and I guess to use a Yiddish word that his michigas because it was crazy upstairs. Um, but that's actually what I was going to ask you. So, coming in now to season two, how does the writer's room feel to you? Does it feel like a cohesive unit, Does it feel like there's a bunch of changes? Did it feel as much as a of a this is a new show in season two as it did to all of us now watching it. It definitely felt like a new show. And and and so the as far as the writer's room went, Uh, you know, Jeff Sherman was still there from year one, and and Mannell and Susan Jansen, um, and they were so you know, warm, um and and inviting to myself and and um, you know we it was hard too, because we really were responsible for a lot of um the type of stories we told, which were a little more wild, and you know, Sean and Corey getting into Happy Day's style trouble and you know, the scheme's gone awry and turned Phoene's house into a and breakfast our first year on the show. This is unheard of. I've been doing this thirty two years. I've been on all sorts of staffs, all sorts of shows. We wrote five episodes in our first I know, I know, I said that in your intro. We didn't realize it five from season two, were you guys? Yeah, And so there was a little i would say temporary maybe resentment from some of the writers, but at the end of the day, they were amazing people. Yeah, and we bonded and we were having dinners together and we would, you know, every so often a different writer would host a soiree at the house and we'd all So we became a family very fast, and so the resentment, you know, kind of went away. But we really and the one thing I always tried to do, no matter how far out there we would get with some of the stories. And I learned this from Michael, and it was always inside me, and I took it when I left. You know, I'm one of the ones that have worked a lot away from him. Heart is important, and Michael, to his credit, did teach me. He said, anybody can make an audience laugh, but if you make them feel, they will come back, and they will come back week after week. And they may not know why they're coming back, but they will, yeah, because inside their feeling. And so I've carried that. So even when we would do these wild episodes and you know, I'm sure we'll touch on the wrestling show and doing a show in the pond in front of eighteen thousand people, Even when we would do stuff like that, it was anchored in a beautiful moment with you know, Ben and Danielle dancing in the ring right right. So the five episodes that you were responsible for in season two, does that mean they were also like your original pitches and then you got to write them or not always? You know, the writer's room works, like I remember, I think our first first episode which was wild but and I haven't watched it in thirty years, but it was Corey Wolf where he was going through puberty, thought he was turning to a werewolf. I think mcnell had pitched something about he was once bitten by, you know, an animal. He didn't know who bid him or what bit him, and so that was the starting point and then we would take it. But we were constantly pitching the craziest stuff that never got done we wanted we kept every year we'd say no, Michael seriously then wants a bar Mitzvah. All his Jewish friends are getting bar mitzvah in the show he wanted, while the families not Jewish he wants. He would pitch crazy stuff like that. We had one will where we almost did this show where you got your driver's license. The show, of course every all the fans know, was set in Philadelphia, that you got your license went out for your first drive and ran over Randall Cunningham right before the playoffs quarterbacks, so he couldn't play in the playoffs because of Eric Matthews. Oh that's a great idea. If I remember Randall Cunningham, the way he played and how often he got hurt, you wouldn't have to run him over, you just have to tap him just a little. Yeah. Fine, But a lot of them were our original pitches. I mean, you know, and and again back to you guys. Absolutely, it had to be shocking from the show because it was a vastly different show from season one. Um, and you guys were great in season one. But I do I do think the network, and don't forget back then there was a network and a studio. We had these touchdows, you know, masters kind of saying hey, here's what we want. I just think it's a different world. And you know, back then when we started, we were coming off of you know, like the times, you know, films like American Pie and you know that that was and coming of age meant you know, kissing and men, right, you know, adolescent sexuality and um, I certainly you know in the beginning of you know, my career on Boy. I It's a lot of things, guys, and I'm so glad to talk about it. I love talking about this stuff because you know, we're all different people. I'm I became a different showrunner when I left Michael and did my own thing, and I was certainly you know, I did a show called So Little Time with the Olsen Twins, and I was much more aware, hyper hyper aware of of of what they were going through, you know, on both at home but then on set when they had scenes with the boy and had a kiss, and and I was certainly you know, it was before I was married on board, before I had kids. All that, you know, that came in season three and four for me when I met Kristen and had Liam and Luke. But I probably, looking back, wish that I was in a position to be more aware of all of you as adolescence. But I wasn't a parent. I was a single guy. By the way, Like every time you guys got forty year old men, remember I want an asterisk. I was thirty two. I want you guys to tell the world that I was the hip rider with the torn jeans in the ear and now you are you are? Yeah? No, I think it's also interesting though, when you look at just the evolution of the child actor. I mean you go back to the forties and the fifties, when there was a child actor could be on the set for seventeen eighteen hours. They were doing their own stunts. I mean they threw Natalie Wood across a river where the bridge walked out. She broke her arm. She was like eight. So I mean there there has certainly has been the evolution, and that we're seeing where it's getting better. I mean from the time Bill Daniels was a child actor at as the time we were a child actor, it's already better. And from the time somebody now as a child actor to when we were a child actor, it's getting better. So yeah, you see the evolution, but it is. It's what you're talking about at the beginning. It's the time casule. Time capsule. When you go back and you look, it's jarring. It's jarring to say, and then people say, well, why are you why are you criticizing it? Well, we're criticizing it because that's what we're doing. We're looking back at a time in history and we're talking about it. And by the way, some of the stuff holds up. Oh yeah, amazing to me. Yeah, it does actually more on most shows, I think, more than motions. I mean, I think that's the reason why I agree we're talking about this because we still have fans who are still showing into their children. I mean, that's the thing. I think Boym's World has a staying power. So I think like for the majority of our show, it it ages incredibly well. Yeah, I mean, let me better than a any other show. I know. Again taking pride in being the young one on the writing staff, I'm pretty active on social media. Yeah, and and and this, um, I believe I want to read this because it's it's really really cool. This somebody tweeted at me yesterday. This is an aspiring writer, she's in her late twenties, and this was the tweet. There is this is last night. There is just no show like hashtag boy Meets World. Me and my roommate are NonStop giggling right now, and I cannot stress how much I wanted to be a part of this family when I was younger. Yeah yeah, yeah, And you know, being active on social media, I just responded, leave me alone exactly. Your music. The show's timeless. It really is. Yeah, you know, I know that I agree so with one of the you don't want to do any social media. But one of the things that I do do is cameo. It's one of the few things that I do because I like to give the shout outs to to the fans. And literally, I would say in the last eight nine months, eighty percent of the cameos I'm doing are for people under the age of fifteen. Wow, it's shout out for twelve, my twelve year old daughter, it's your favorite show, my thirteen year old son favorite show. It's one after another of people under the age of fifteen. The show is just continuing to go, which is a testament also to the writing. It really is. I mean, we we like to toot our own horn. We were very good child actors. I think we're finding ourselves. We're doing a great job. But the writing really does hold up. I mean, Danielle and I were really good on the show. Um, but I was doing that for myself, but I was pulling around, so you know, yeah, again, Danielle and I were great, and there's somebody above you know, the writing. The more we're getting into it, and we'll get into it as we do more of our recaps. But um, the writing, well, the thing we keep coming back to is that you used to have, especially in something like the TGIF block, you had kids show and then you had slightly adult shows when they were nine thirty slot. Whereas our show, the writing was so good and crisp for the adults, which is something that we never noticed as child actors because we're doing our thing, We're in our head, we're not there during their rehearsals, and we're watching these scenes between Betsy and Rusty or between Bill and Tony now, and they're just so good. So I think again that's the testament to the writing that does and again to you know, to Rusty and Betsy and Tony and Bill, the talent on the adult side, they were not sitcomy, no, and so they allowed us to write these wonderful scenes in and and you know, I think I once you know, Will, I think you once said on one of the episodes of the podcast, I think you had said I had all the funnies. I didn't have. No, you had some dramatic stuff. I had some well you get well, the Tommy stuff was was Tommy stuff was great. By the way, one of my favorite and this was me and normally we won't take credit for stuff, but it made me cry when I saw it on set because I on Girl Meets World. That was my idea to bring Tommy back. Yeah, and I was awesome with the journalist and people just flipped over that. But you have so much emotional stuff, Mark. One. One aspect of Boy Meets World we get asked about all the time, and it came up again while we were introing you before this episode started is how did wrestling make its way into the Boy Meets World storylines? And we especially get asked about the Vader episodes. So the answer is, Mark Blutman, We say it all the time, but how did what is your love and affiliation for wrestling and how did you bring it into Boy Meets World? Honestly, you know, it's funny. In fact, I was at the Forum last night a bunch of I'm friends with a lot of wrestlers still and there was a a w card there yesterday and the acclaimed say hi to you, Danielle shout out to the acclaimed, My boy, it was amazing. You know my grandfather. The answer is this my grandfather who was my best friend in the world. I use him in my work a lot. I have a movie that I wrote that I'm going to direct in May that's about my grandfather and me. Judd Hirsch is playing Gramps. He was my best friend. He was my only grandparent. The other three either died before I was born or shortly after seeing me. I should rexamine that. Grandpa Sam was my best buddy. He was the most beautiful human being in the world. And he took me to a wrestling match when I was like, you know, eight, nine, ten years old, something like that. And it was Andre the Giant. I was going to say, who was who? Andre the Giant against this other giant of a man named Don Leo Jonathan from Salt Lake City, Utah. Wow, it was build the match of the century. And I sat there in absolute awe and I just was hooked. And I kept watching wrestling. And I have found recently we moved and I found boxes with old stuff, and I found a polaroid of me as a ten year old, dressed as a wrestler in a speedo bathing suit, my hands making the claw. Yes, I loved it and never stopped. And then and those who know me well on social note that I started off as a stand up comedian and I did an act called the Crusher Comic where I dressed up as a wrestler with a mask, tights, I had all these flamboyant ric flair robes and I would come out to ayah the Tiger and airplane spin people from the audience. It became huge. This was in the in the eighties. It became huge. Comedy was big. I'm selling out comedy clubs all over the country as Crusher Comic. The show would end, I'd go in the green room, get undressed, take my stuff off, go hang out at the bar. Nobody knew I was the Crusher Comic, so I'd be sitting there at the bar. Somebody go, oh, what a great show. I'm like, yeah, Crusher Comics the best. I come see him in Colorado all the time, oh man, and so I did this for about ten years. I was on the cover of Wrestling World magazine Crusher Comic that the best. And one day this is true. This is part of my origin story. I was playing the improv in Pittsburgh and I did this bit in my act where I would at the end of the act, I would say Hey, A lot of people come up to me all the time. They say, Crusher is wrestling real? Is wrestling fake? And I go, I'm not gonna say one way or the other, but I'm gonna give you guys a demonstration and show you what it's all about. I need somebody from the audience to come up. Somebody would come up, and we'd get in this thing where I would take out a chain. I'd make it a chain match, and we would like dog collar with a chain attaching me and this person from the audience, And just as we were about to go at it, I would bring out rock'em sock'em robots. This is the only way to settle it. And my robot wore a mask just like me, and it was rigged with a pump so blood would spurt out all those of the place. So I'm in Pittsburgh one night, and I usually was really really good at who I chose right, and I chose this person and I thought they were completely sober and not and he gets up there and I would always lean in and whisper, okay, just kind of a fake slap to me to start things off. And then I'll pull out the robots. And this guy takes the chain, wraps it around his knuckles and Cole cocks me, Oh, I go down. He gets escorted out from the ground. I'm like, thank you, good night, and I went I'm done, like I can't do this anymore, like it's you know, and and I just you know, started writing, and my writing took off very very quickly. I sold a movie like three months later. Um and and but that's the wrestling part of me. And so we brought Vader on. The first episode was the Thriller in Phila, and it was so over the top. I think, didn't Vader pick you up? Will? He does? He wrestled, He wrestled with me, so he trained. He trained me, which is the coolest thing in the world. So I remember him coming in and essentially saying, if memory serves now, he was a football player, he said, I think he played for the Raiders, excuse me, University of Colorado. So he came out and he was kind of saying he would he would always have the rubber bands and he would stretch out because he kept saying, my shoulders a shot. And he would just tell us all these wrestling stories that were he said, you have no idea what the wrestling world is like, No, you don't start WWE. You obviously start in these small little places. And he said, the one that sticks out for me first of all, the nicest human being you want. And by the way, will will not to put you off. He felt so bad because one of the teachers I don't know was David Comes or somebody who came to me and said, dub I know you know Leon that was his real name, Leon White. He's gone too. He passed away about four years ago. And um, but but David came out. He said, you need to talk to him. He's swearing in front of the kids. Every time he messes up a line, he goes, oh B And so I'm like, Leon, listen, it's not a locker room. These some of these kids are probably would love him. I remember just sitting around talking to him for hours, many stories for hours. Yeah, but the stories that he told me. The one that sticks out to me is he was in a fighting pit essentially in Mexico, like a fight club. Like it was a professional wrestler. He used to do fights. But no, they were professional wrestler. No, that's what he said. It was supposed to be It wasn't fully choreographed for this one, he told me about, but they had kind of quote unquote worked out certain things right, but it was more or less fly by the seat of your pants for this one. Bullet points, bulletin yeah, and he said the guy. He's throwing the guy around because he's obviously supposed to win, and he goes back against the ropes and he feels something in his back and he turns around and the guy's grandmother had stabbed him through the ropes, had walked up to the ropes and stuck a knife in his lower back, and he looked back like what are you? Oh my god, are you kidding me? And then you know, finished the match and he's like, I patched myself up. He's like, that's the kind of stuff that used to happen. And I thought you were going to tell the detail he used to tell. He used to talk about how he would fight in Mexico and they had a net a of the that was the other of the ring, but the audience would sharpen pasos. They would sharpen the edge of the coins and throw coins from them. So he sliced by coins from another one. It was insane. He said it was just absolutely But he told me great, just amazing compliment because he had to lift me up. So he was working with me. We're gonna do this, We're gonna do that. And after we shot the show, he looked at me and said, you're better at that than some of the professional wrestlers that I work with. I was like, yes, because he stiff and you have to like, do you know you have to let you have to jump with them so you're not destroying his back. And well, I remember what he said. What he said to us, which blew my mind was he's like, the so called fake wrestling that we do is so much harder than real fighting. Yeah, because trying to trying to make it look like you're hurting each other without actually hurting each other requires so much more athleticism and effort. Then, um, you know, he's like, it's more like an acting dancing job as Ballet. Yeah, Cory Ballet take a three hundred and fifty pound behemoth and say you need to be nimble, choreograph and timing impeccable. It's not beast pounding, you know. And so I was in the hall. You said you saw Andre the Giant and Andre the Giant apparently was famous for making up things in the middle of the fight but telling the other person in the ring. And Andre the Giant was like five hundred pounds and they'd be in the middle of the fight and he'd say they'd be in a clinch. He'd say to the guy, now flip me. I think I'd be like, are you are you what? Like, how the hell am I supposed to flip Andre the Giant. These men are just it's in men and women because Alexa Bliss all these but they're amazing. Watching this stuff is incredible. Andre would probably down three bottles of wine before a match. He was a big drink. You drink half a barrel of beer to get to get drunk. Apparently. I'm just I'm trying to picture some of these storylines that ideas you probably had from your real life as a comic slash wrestler. And then you're like, so boy meets World. What if was anybody looking at you like, what kind of ideas are these or were they accepted right away? Well, it was pretty organic to make it work because we were casting Ethan's dad. Yeah, you know, Frankie Stucchino needed a dad. Well, you know, you can go two ways. You can cast one hundred and twenty pound men and go, oh, isn't that funny money? Or you can cast And because we were you know, as Frankie evolved, we made him uber sensitive and he was a poet and all this, it seemed very organic to give him a father who was the opposite, who was a wrestling and so I picked from the room and Michael had no idea, how do we even do, like as if I'm going to call Sally and Barbie and go get get me a wrestler, you know, like they're gonna be what would And I knew people, you know, I knew Bruce Pritchard who's been with WWE forever and he did this character brother Love. He ended up in the show, you know, doing the announcing. But there was also an executive Disney who passed away gosh, four or five years ago, named Mitch Ackerman. And Mitch Ackerman was on the financial side at Disney and he was a big wrestling fan and so he helped he helped facilitate it also, and then once he did the first episode, then we just like we brought him back three or four times. And then I had this insane idea where I said to Michael, I want to film part of our episode during a house show. For those who don't know, a house show is when it's not like a pay per view, it's just the loop there at an arena and they just do matches and it's not filmed for TV. And I'd want to film in front. And Michael's like, you want to film an episode of Boy Meets World in front of sixteen thousand rabid wrestling fans? Yes, I do. Oh my god, he didn't come. He didn't come that night, you know he didn't. Yeah, he stayed away. I think it actually fell on it was so terrified Friday, so that he had an excuse. Right, Yeah, I wasn't invited to those I was never at the Big Ones, right, or what was it like to walk into an arena? It was awful. It was awful. Ben and I were so scared. We we I mean, I look, the fear really came from just doing it live, like we only had you know, one take. Essentially, we ended up doing two. But we thought we only had one take because it was supposed to be during a real wrestling match with Ethan up there, and then Ben and I entered the ring, and we had certain moves we had to do, and so we had when we had lines we had to say, and they had set up the cameras and we had rehearsed before the audience got there, so we all felt like okay. But then when the audience was there, I mean, I don't think I had ever been in front of a crowd that big, and so you run out and then of course, since it was Vader, who was a villain as far as the world of wrestling, wing us and then they recognize us and they were swearing at us and yelling at us. So we're trying to like stay focused and hit our marks and make sure that we say our lines. And meanwhile, you know, sixteen eighteen thousand people are screaming, you know, a boy meets World, Corey sucks Groomshan, and we are just like, what is happening right the worst? Oh my god, I'm so glad you said that, because I tell that story all the time, people think I make it up. I got called into you know, editing the next day or on the Monday, and they said we have a problem and that we had swearing married the dialogue on what that means for people out there who don't know, we can't strip it out. At the time, there was no way to strip it out. It was married to dialogue. Wrestling fans are smart and although they loved Boy Meets World, they knew what was going on. Yeah, I love the show, but they also knew they could rek hammus on that well. One of one of the things that made me fall in love with wrestling in my adult ears is the fact that, like you said, Mark, wrestling fans are smart and they are committed to the bit we all talk about as actors, when you when you can commit and when you're working with an actor who's really committed, and how incredible that is. The wrestling fans are so committed to who the heels are and who the heroes are that they weren't going to allow the fact that they're taping a TV show to change to get them off. Oh sure, we'll just be audience members. Yeah, we'll just don't. We just won't. Yeah, we'll just sit here. In the fact that they're yelling at twelve year olds, It's like, no, you yourself in our world, you're the ring. You're with Vader. That's it, you're a heel. Yeah. The inappropriate dialogue that we had to listen to about unspeakable things that certain members of the cast are doing to each other, it was amazing, oh man, And so we had obviously bring everybody in to loop their lines and get them again. But you know what's funny is again we talk about how the show is timeless, and people like that tweet I read are still out there. I must get hit up about that one episode, you know, once a week, like how did you think to film a sitcom? Kids sitcom? Quote unquote kids sitcom? Right? Yeah, I mean that's insane. But the fact that we're here all these years later talking about again, that's all part of what made your show so special is that we did things that others weren't doing, and even you know, to get away from the wrestling thing for a bit. You know, they're the things that I'm proudest stuff. And I know that if I was doing every episode with you and watching, I would have the same reactions like what, like, really that went on? Then? I know that, and sometimes my heart hurts for what we allow, but sometimes I also know that, no, that's what went on. But here's where credit goes out to all of us and us as the originators of the content. While there may have been episodes that felt like we were sexualizing, you know, the girls on the show, we also were really, really careful to balance it as best we can with something like chick Like Me were you and Ben dressed up? And you'll get to that episode whenever as girls and learned what it like, what it was like in the nineties to be a girl in high school and be sexualized. We always try to balance. And again I'm not you know, I'm as culpable as anybody from when things. Maybe we're a little too much, but but the hearts in that writer's room were fairly pure and overall, um, I will not, you know, speak to any individuals, but I will say overall you were also loved and cared for. And we also knew the adults we left you with on the set, the teachers, Betsy, Rusty, Bill Tony, Uh, you know, Alex Desaire, who I adore. You were in good hands, which is and and this is shout out to your families. I always tell people that when you cast kids, you really are casting their families. Yeah. Yeah, And credit to all your families, guys, they rocked all of them. And so you guys were not gonna be holding up any dry cleaning stores in Las Vegas. You know you were just not those kids. Watch tomorrow on the news now, right, Danielle the Wells, Fargo High School twenty three? Oh my gosh, I didn't see that coming. Now, wouldn't be caught. We wouldn't be caught. Now we'd see planet right? Which characters from the show like spoke to you the most? We've heard about different writers, you know, having their characters that really like were there, they felt like their voice was really the voice of that character. Which characters on Boy Meets World spoke to you the most? Like? Which one do you most easily slip into that? That's a great question, an amazing question, and I hope it leads us because I would be remiss if we don't touch on Maddie for a bit later, because he had a specific voice for the show, and I adore Matt Nelson and miss him and want to touch on it, so before we get there. For me, it really was the combo of of of writer and band. I was gonna say, that's so funny. I almost jumped in and said, my impression is that the like Corey Sean schemes going wrong was like you and Howard, like you guys brought that element into the show and like that excitement like when we start a band, when we do like all these like little things like the radio show, like all these episodes about like the Two of Us where Sean was a little more goofy than he ended up being later on in the show, where Seawan was like sort of this goofball sidekick and and Ben was always getting dragged into trouble. I feel like that was your guy's lane. Yeah, that's so nailed it, nailed it, you know, that was a big part of it for me. My again, you just you articulated perfect. All I say is you know, ditto to what you said to Will. It was also now you were so interesting your revolution because you people will say all the time, when did Eric Matthews lose fifty brain cells? Like when did like when did he shake? And they just fell because we and I actually heard somebody else say this on the podcast, but I had said it. Then I go, I went up in the room one day, I said, dude is turning into Jim Carrey. Yeah, I mean I said that dude is turning into Jim Carrey. They said, who I go. Well, Bill Daniels obviously, so your stuff, you know, good looking detective and you know, just sitting there eating your cereal and the giant bowl, leaving the house in a row, which was so Steve Martin the jerk. I wrote a lot of that stuff, and I identified with the big comedy but um and we couldn't. But for me, I always said, the only way we'll get away with that with will as if we include heart, as as as Danielle and Ben got older. I love the relationship stuff and I loved letting my heart start to bleed into my work, which is now almost anything I do is just filled with that. And I you know, I think, you know, when you start off and you're on somebody else's show and you're in your thirties, you're still trying to find your own voice, your own personality. Michael was also very you know, we ran the show for two years. I don't know if you guys even remember that, but the thing is, when you run a show from Michael Jacobs, you know, it's very clear that it's like taking your dad's car and you return it into the driveway. The first thing you do is you circle it to make sure there's no kings, no scratches. Yeah, because and there must be the exact amount of gas still in the town. It's his car. And so it was very difficult, which was one of the reasons why I ended up leaving, you know, in season five, because if you run a show from Michael, you're never truly running your show. Although I was extremely proud of you know, along with a lot of us, but being part which I thought, you know, the Sean Angelus stuff was groundbreaking on a sit come back down, I really do. Yeah, And so you were you left after season five? I left I think in the middle of season five. Actually, we just we were running the show and it was difficult. Um, you know Michael's thing, Listen, it's his show. Whatever he wants to do, he can do. So he was off doing other shows and he would come in late at night. I'm ready to let everybody go home at seven, and he's like, we're going to change all this, and a lot of it was, you know, that was Michael. He just wanted his words, whether better, different, whatever, it doesn't matter. That's what he would do. And then we got offered by Dector and Strauss season one writers. They were doing a show with Tom Selleck called The Closer. Yeah, and they said, can you get out of your deal at Disney and come and do this show with us? And we did. Um, you know, well was interesting, though, guys, as I thought, and a lot of it was was was what Howard wanted And this is part of, you know, the evolution. I didn't become who I am till after Boy Meets World. Um, you know, you're still to you know. I also thought when I took over the show, okay, well, there was a lot of stuff about Michael that I thought was good. There was a lot that I wanted to do different and you're still trying to find yourself years later, I'd be interviewed, I had huge regrets in leaving you guys, Like huge regrets was writer was going to say, he remembers the night I remember the night you guys left. It was a big deal because it was sudden. It was like we were in the middle of the season. I feel like I forget what episode we were doing. But there was a swing set. It wasn't the ski Lodge was it was it the dance. I just remember it was like there was a big swing set. It was like a big episode and we were doing something kind of and then it was like, oh no, Howard and Mark are leaving the show. We were all like what We all just kind of sat down and say goodbye to you and it was like, oh bye. Like it was really emotional, and it was you know, one of the things I can tell you guys, Uh, as you get older me, you just cry a lot more and a lot easier, and uh and and so I'm I'm emotional now. But you know, I thought I wanted to write adult stuff and that experience with Tom Salick, you know, hammered at home. No, man, your heart is with kids. And then when I did the Olsen Twin Show, I realized, a how good I am with kids and how good I am at elevating their performances and making them feel safe on a set. And then certainly on Girl. You know, I did that as much as I could. Again, you know, it's still it's Michael's thing, you know, at the end of the day. But I always talk about the regret of leaving you guys. But but but to your credit. We've you know, always there for me writer. When I wrote and directed that movie ten years ago, I said, you're coming to New Mexico, would you do this role? And you went there and yell, we've done stuff together. You've never said no to me. And Will used to kick my ass in some trivia game on our that was it. I was like, wait, this is the Eric Matthews character anything? Yes, Well, you recently won an Emmy for your work on the Apple TV Plus series ghost Writer. Why did none of us appear on that show? Mark? Yeah, I would have been awesome on that. Um, you guys were no longer thirteen and it was in and Will is not allowed to get a passport after the incident in Amsterdam. That's true. I can get a passport, but temporary. I can get a very temporary passport. That's it, right, twenty four hours in and out exactly. No. Well, you know, I'm amazed that you walked away from the show in fifth season. You would figure doing a show with Shelley Long would teach you never walk away when it shows at its prime. I have a question for you. Do you have a favorite like like when you think of boy met Roll, of the quintessential episode, your favorite episode? Which one is it? Um? I think it's I think it's part of what I meant to say. It was two kids trying to figure out what I what I love you means, and you know the Jane jacket. Of course it was my hero when I was younger and getting in it was John Hughes. Sum I love John, and so these to find a coming of age moment of two young people lost in love. And dude leaves and throws his jean jacket that he had put on days earlier. Remember and Chubbies he put it on you because you were cold show. You'll watch it. It's a beautiful episode. So that one stands out. And then the one besides Vader, the one I get hit up the most, is they want you to take the roles. Yeah, yeah, there you go. You had a moment as an old man writer leaving Chubbies where you went it's head Lockley and miss Lockleer turn you chased out after you dr Locklier. Yeah, I think we're going to see that this season. That's season two. Yeah, yeah, Wendy, Yeah, I'll send it you guys. I have a picture of you guys. An old makeup. I'm sad and so, you know, it's hard to just answer one episode, but I think, certainly for me what I meant to say. I also, Danielle, the Disney World are shot shooting? There was interesting that one? What's that? Did you write that one? I just want to make sure so all of the episodes that were really awesome where people got to go do fun stuff were written by you, because I was never in any of those episodes. Mark, oh my god, don't don't start in the Disney World. I didn't even in the cast till season four. Somebody said about that brother. I went with, exactly, You're just You're the Alan Matthews of writers. Thank you so much. As a paranoid guy wanting me to throw some flowers. I will say one of my favorite scenes ever was an episode I did not write. I had a lot to do with. I think Sherman wrote it. It was with Leicia Hayley Shall Glanis Morris set. So you sitting there making a log cabin out of your French fry. Yeah, well she's going on and on and then yelling. You know, she said, what would make you if I said this and that? What would you say, I would say check check please. She was so I can't wait to get to I hope we have her on the show. She was so good. I went four Table Read. I went with Jeff Sherman. We went to see her in her band Murmurs, The Murmurs. Yeah, Danielle bought me my first Murmurs CD and I still listen to it all the time. It's a great album. So yeah, I still have a CD well on my on my machine. That's part of what made Boys so special is this giant pot of everything Stu for everybody there was you know who else in the sitcom world has somebody from the Murmurs on who has who does an episode where they put a band together? That's Rick Nielsen from Cheap Trick, Mabe Tolin's Yeah, guitars, Yeah, who does put a band together? Guitarists? Four guitarists. You're right, there are no bands like that, just for guitarists, no drums. So before we before we wrap up, we did mention recently, Um very emotionally that we lost Matt Nelson recently and that it was very hard for all of us. And I know you were very close to Matt. Could you share with us a story about Matt Nelson that maybe none of us know. Well. So I was asked by Michael my first year on the show to go see a play called Sensitive People. And it was a play that Matt wrote. And it was plain I think in in I forget if it was North Hollywood, But I went and I was blown away by this play and I met Matt was also in the play as an actor. Matt did a lot of acting too. When he started. He was her major dad. Um you could find it on YouTube, you know. He just he was just an incredible, you know, uber talented person that was still, like so many of us, trying to find our way. For me, it was comedy writing. What am I also was a bad actor. I was in meat Ball three with Patrick Dempsey. He made a meat Balls three. Yeah, they also made a four with Jason Marsden. No I'm kidding, No, yeah, exactly exactly they you know. So Matt was acting, writing whatever and I met him after and I was blown away by him, and I went back to Michael the next day and McCracken had seen the play also, and we both were very effusive and saying that this guy is super talented. Let's bring him in. And we brought him in and we met him and he was very quiet, very shy, very introspective. But there was an incredible depth about Matt. I remember remember the first week, me and Minelle went to his office and said, Matt, we have this write a passage for new writers. He goes, what is it? I go, you stand behind your desk. I'm gonna put four open water bottles and me and Manell are going to stand in the doorway and throw tennis balls and knock the water bottles over. And if you can do that, then we know you're one of us. Of course we've never did that before. We up and Matt, being this incredible trooper, going okay, it's a little weird, but I want to fit in, would stand behind his desk. I'd set up the water bottles, Memanelle would throw tennis balls, and Matt was soaking and smiling, smiling, and that was Matt, and he knew we were goofing, but he was like going, Hey, this is who I am. I'm a team player. And then in the room, as Matt began to get comfortable in pitch, it was very evident he was very dark and you know, probably a lot of darkness in his own past, but he was beautiful and it was also sincere. And that's one of the things that I don't I don't know if people have shared it yet, if any of the Jeffs did, or whoever you've had on But one of the things that a writer room is is it's a safe place to share. It's a lot of things. Some of the things are ugly. Some of the things that went on in the nineties wouldn't necessarily, you know, stand up now. But but as far as us personally, we shared stories of pain. It was very therapeutic. You know, for me, it was mother issues that would come to the forefront, and so Matt would share and it was you know, clear there was you know, he had a dark side. He immediately, you know, to answer that other question, he was he was a Shan guy. Yeah, you know, he was Team Sean. He was writing some incredible stuff and drafts would come in and Matt was handing in first drafts that were brilliant. But I'm like, Matt, we're not doing the basketball diaries. Raft a needle and a tourniquet under you know, Corey's bed, right pause, and go, what about Sean? Well, maybe, of course I'm exaggerating here, but but but Matt's work and ability to write dark angsty troubled within something as pure as Boy Meets World was the hardest task, a task that would seem impossible. But Matt did it. Yeah, he did it better than anybody. And um, on Girl Meets World, he made some grena maya. Nobody did it like him. Yeah. And one of my regrets is that I never wrote a pilot with Matt. I always wrote pilots with Michael, because that's what you did. And Matt and I would have been special together because we fed off each other so well and complimented each other's scripts so well and one of another. I use the word regret a lot. Although Matt had an incredible impact which should never be lost on Boy Meets World and Girl Meets World, so many other shows and audiences missed out on what Matt could have created had he left our world. And when I say our world, I mean Michael and Boy and Girl. He only wanted to write for you guys and be part of Michael's world. And had Matt gone out on his own, he would have, you know, probably shared him. He's like I was fortunate enough to do because he was brilliant and he was not a normal, you know, sit Friday night sitcom writer, but he was able to make his vision and his voice work within yours. And again, so when people say how special Boy meets World is and was and Girl Meets World, Matt, you know, deserves as much credit as anybody, including Michael and myself and Howard and Jeff and Jeff and all the people that have been with you guys forever. Matt. Yeah, quintessential voice. A great Guy's a great guy. Well, thank you for being here with us. Mark. It was a pleasure to have you. I loved all of your stories, as I always do. Where can people find you? Now? You mentioned a couple of times, since you're the young, hip guy that you are on social where can people find you? Hold on? Just making sure people see my beads. Yes, yes, actually two let me do a shout out these two material little bracelets. I don't know if you guys remember our super fan from Girl Meets World. Emily. She was the young girl from Colorado. She was confined to a wheelchair. She came down to our set. She made these for me. And she's on Instagram and she makes these bracelets and they're beautiful. I'm on Twitter as Bluntman Mark and on on Instagram as Mark Blutman and Uh. As I mentioned earlier, I'm shooting a movie in May called Dare to Dream, which is kind of bad News Bears meets Cocoon. These older people in their eighties discover Fountain Youth and turn into their twelve year old selves. How cool. Oh that's good. We're free in May. We're all free in May, right, yeah, So we'll see you. Are you there for Sport Canada? Well, Mark, we want to have you back when we get to some of the mcfoli episodes, so we will be inviting you back. This will not be the last time the audience hears from you, so um, thank you again for being here with us, and we will look forward to the next time. There will be another next time. And just very quickly, not only do I want to thank you, but all the fans out there that we didn't get a chance to thank in the nineties because there was no way of knowing who they are where they were. I just want to say thank you to all of you for supporting all of us all these years for the best fans. Do we have best fans ever? Thank you Mark, Mark, Thanks Mark. Oh boy. So fun to talk to people and also emotional. It's fun emotional, if I might, Daniel, you and your joint words, I love it, nice smushing words together. I still can't believe they did five episodes in the first season. I mean that's the second season. Yeah there, first season, first season, Yeah, I mean I yeah, I really think that A lot of the second season and and what became Boymet's World is defined by by Mark and Howard's energy. Yeah, you could feel, you know, I and I that was a lot of that was because Michael was gone. Michael left to do other shows. Because when when you have a hit show like Boyman's World out of the gate, like we were a hit after the first season, you get a lot of opportunities, and Michael had a lot of opportunities. He went and created I think like three other pilots during the second season of Boyme's World. Not many of them went. I don't know if any of them did, but I remember David Kendall took over his executive producer's showrunner for a lot of episodes. So Michael would come in and give notes sometimes, but other weeks we would go without him coming and giving notes. I'm sure he was in the writers room giving notes, but we wouldn't see Michael for weeks at a time. And um, and I think what ended up happening was the Howard and Mark voice started to take over, which I think was really great. I think, you know, for me, it became why Sean was a huge part of the show. Um, that's sort of like the core sec they were. That pair became kind of in separate us get into trouble, us coming up with schemes and you know, yeah, hi Janks and all of that that was entirely them. Um, And I think it was a great evolution for the show. Um. So well, I can't wait to get more and more into it as we get into season two. Yeah. Well, we're we're getting ready. We're getting ready. We're diving. We're diving into season two. And so thank you guys for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails pod meets World Show at gmail dot com. And I'm not sure if you've heard but we have merch. Oh there's March pod Meets Worldshow dot com and we'll see you next time. Writer send us out. We love you all, pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fischel, Will Fernell and Ryder Strong executive producers, Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara suit Box producer, Jackie Rodriguez, engineer and Boy Meets World superfan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. You can follow us on Instagram at Podmeats World Show or send us an email at pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com.