Travel with guest Henley Vazquez. Ep 27

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, practicing position and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is episode twenty seven. We'll be talking with special guest Henley Vasquez, who is the owner of Passported, which is a family travel company. So we'll be learning all about kids and travel. But for Sarah, what kind of travel do you guys have coming up this year? We are not going to do anything terribly ambitious this year because of the ages of our kids, although I will say I think this year is going to be easier than next year from mc prior experience. But right now it looks like we're going to do a Pacific Northwest trip in August and probably a little mini Disney trip during a conference that my husband is going to this spring, and I think we might do Philadelphia for Thanksgiving. Like, if you live in Florida, are you required to get a Disney basically every year or so? It's so funny because I would rather not. Honestly, I think part of what makes Disney fun is that you don't go so often. And I may be in the minority, and that especially among people who live here, because we definitely have friends who have annual passes and seem to go multiple times per year. However, my husband has a conference at a really nice hotel and I just feel like, how can we pass that up? So, yeah, it'd be good. Yeah, We're we're We have two summer beach trips planned, one with extended family. We also have some rooms booked in Yellowstone National Park at the end of the summer because I got on their website on May first, twenty seventeen to book for August of twenty eighteen. So that's coming up. But we're still working on planning a President's Day and spring break. I may have to hit Henley up for tips before and that's getting me worse. Tell me where I'm supposed to go? I know, well, you know it's we've done the kids did. The big kids did skiing over Christmas break, so we've kind of done that, and I know, maybe go someplace beachy, But then we've got two summer beach trips. I don't know. I'm kind of at a loss. I think you're going to be tired of the cold and you need to go somewhere beichi. Even if the beach this summer, come to me, come visit me. We've thought about doing like a you know, a big kids trip to Europe maybe, although you know, we'll see. I'm trying to think how much of that would be fun for them versus like fun for me. I mean, I like going to art museums and historic stuff. But I'm not entirely clear that our guest will be able to help. Yeah, just figure out what's actually fun from that. So yeah, we're looking forward to that. Cool. Well, we're excited to welcome Henley Vzquez to the program. I know Henley from college back when she was Henley Holmes that she then married another one of our classmates, So that's exciting. And she has been in the she's been in the travel industry for low of these many years. So Henley, could you introduce yourself. Yeah, Hi, thanks so much for having me. My name is Henley Vasquez, and I am the founder of a company called Passported, which focuses on family travel. And you have a family that travels with you. I do, although sometimes I wish they wouldn't so much. It's occupational hazard. You've got at the hazard. Yes, I have three kids. They are eleven, seven and now six months old. We are back in the baby phase again, so sort of learning to practice what I preach about taking your kids everywhere and even what it means some bumpy flights and some limited sleep while you're on the road. Well, tell us about that philosophy, because I think a lot of people when it comes to family and travel, are like, oh my goodness, this is going to be all pain, Like what's the point. So what's your philosophy about it? So my philosophy is, yes, there is a whole lot of pain when it comes to traveling with children. But I do think that the more you do it, the better it gets. For starters, like anything, practice makes perfect, and that even I've heard a lot of people say, well, young kids don't remember there's you know, it's not worth it. It's not that this doesn't mean anything to them. But I totally disagree with that. And I think that the more that we expose our children to new experiences, new places, new cultures, new countries, the more it seeps into to their sort of essence and sort of thinking of themselves as part of a much bigger world than their own neighborhood or their own school, even at a very young age. And I think that they become more flexible just simple things like learning to eat different stuff, learning to sit still when you're on a plane for a while. And I also just think that it's wonderful as a family to bond over even the hard parts. But you did it, you made it, you got back home, And although there are times where it's difficult, it seems that it's always it's always sort of making memories versus sitting around and doing the same thing on another weekend. Yeah exactly. I mean, are there certain mindset things that families need to develop, I guess to think about like mistakes people might make, like thinking that a trip with adults would be planned the same way as a trip with kids. I mean, what do you say the big mistakes people make with you? Yeah, one hundred percent. I think as an adult, if you and your spouse are headed on a trip to somewhere, you can probably wing it a little bit. You don't have to plan on an every moment. In fact, it's nice just to be able to wander and be free with kids. I think it's very different if you land, for example, somewhere where your children are jet lag and you don't have a plan. It's all going downhill fast, and those are those moments that make you go, why are we even doing this? We could have stayed home, so preparing, planning, knowing what you're going to do, not having to think so much on your feet, because you are often grappling with you know, tan drums and hunger and tiredness. So knowing well, this is what we're doing today, and this is where we're eating tonight, and being able to just sort of fall into a little bit of a schedule can really help. And I think most of us probably have our kids on a routine in a schedule at home. Establishing that the minute that you get somewhere else can really help smooth things over. From the child's perspective, It gives a little bit of predictability and also from the parents' perspective. I want those kids to go to bed on time, even when we're traveling, because my husband and I want to have a little bit of our own time where we can actually, you know, sometimes it might be like sitting in the bathroom speaking quietly with a glass of wine, But you need to carve out those moments as adults where you still get a little bit of vacation in the middle of all the adventures with your kids. I'm enjoying the image of you two sitting in the bathroom having wine together on the floor of the bathroom. Absolutely have had that exact same experience, or at least like on the floor of a tiny little balcony, like no or the weather conditions, So it's got to be universal love. I love that you talk about planning because that tends to be a big central theme in survival with young kids in general. But that makes total sense because nobody wants to be quote unquote like wandering around looking for a place for dinner when you have a young child with you who's screaming. It's totally different when you're you know, a couple on a romantic getaway. That sounds fun, but what a disaster in that different context. Absolutely, so probably that idea of planning extends to your packing as well. So I wonder if you could give us family packing guidelines. Well, so I am. I travel a lot for work, and when I'm traveling without my kids, I tend to be the kind of person who is packing at the last minute, throwing stuff into a suitcase. I rarely unpack my suitcase, which drives my husband crazy. But it when you're traveling with your children, it's totally different. So I actually pack the suitcase for my kids and for myself that I'm traveling with them days before our trip to me sure that we've really got everything in there. I always bring more underwear than you think you need, because that's the stuff that can go through for the flight itself. I think it's really important to bring an extra complete outfit for every child and an extra outfit for yourself, because you know somebody's going to spill something on you, they're going to throw up on you, it's it's going to get messy at some point. And I also think really consider the age of your children and what they're going to need to have their bit of downtime. So older kids, you know, make sure that the headphones are working on the iPad, or that they have that book that they're really into right now. When it's a baby, I just I've done a lot of My six month old has now just finished her seventh flight, and I've realized there's a whole new set of stuff that makes traveling with a baby easier that didn't even exist with my other kids. Can you talk about it in that zone right now? I mean like I'm blown away by the stuff. So one is the yo Ya stroller, which actually folds up and fits into the overhead compartment of an airplane. So with my other kids, I was constantly gate checking my stroller and then standing around as you get off the plane waiting for somebody to bring you the stroller. Often it was like bent in half by the time it got to you. This one, it is a one handed click click, click, and you just throw it in the overhead bin. So that makes it great. And because families with young children get preboarding access, you'll have space in the overhead bind you will have to fight for it. The second thing that I love is actually something that our nanny told me. She saw somebody in a park with it and like we looked it up on Amazon and ordered it. You know those now how baby food can come in those pouches, which is great in terms of travel because they're lightweight, they're not glass, you have it on the go. But they're really difficult too, is because they're squirting out, Like are you squirting it into a cup and then feeding it from it? Just makes a whole mess. There's actually Munchkin, the brand. Munchkin makes these spoons that click on to the pouches, so then you have in one hand everything you need to feed the baby. So you can hold a baby on your lap, squeeze the pouch, the food comes through the little tube and out onto the spoon, and you can feed with one hand, which is remarkable. Wow, I am so getting that like net yea Farison Amazon as we speak. It blew my mind. The other thing that I found, and this one is really important if you're doing sort of more adventurous travel with your kids. I don't ever sterilize bottles at home. It's not something that I worry about, and it's not something that doctors recommend. However, if you are doing travel somewhere where you really are concerned about the quality of the water, there's something called Milton tablets. They are made, marketed and sold in the UK that you can order them on Amazon in the US, but they will take a long time to get to you, so it is worth planning ahead for that. And what they are is cold water sterilizers, so you can like we were on a remote island in Mexico where you know, I just wanted to be a little bit extra careful with the bottles, and so we would wash the bottles with soap and hot water. But then I would put these into a plastic bag, drop in cold water, filled up with cold water, drop in one of these sterilizing tablets. Fifteen minutes later, everything is sterilized. You don't have to rinse them again. They are done. They are ready to go. And that is a huge thing for someone who's traveling with a very young baby, where you might be a little bit concerned about their stomach and the possibility of something, you know, bothering them, just a different you know, a different thing in the water, the bacteria that they're not used to. Wow. Also, it's like going backpacking or something here your tablets. Yeah, but it really is. And it's one of those things that I you know, I never would have thought of. And it turns out it is so standard in the UK that they actually sell them in boots in heath or airports. So one of my friend's mothers brought them to that from this trip. That's nice. And in terms of keeping kids occupied on that I mean for young kids, I mean, because that's when it's really painful, being on the airplane with a child that's under about three three and a half years old. What have you found that is remotely helpful for that situation? I wish I had great a right there. You guys have it, I say, I hate it like it is. It is hard to keep a small child occupied until the point that they can watch a movie or play a game. It is. It is hard, hard work on the parents on the parents' right. A mom who travels a lot made a good recommendation to me that when they get old enough so like toddler age where they are playing a little bit with more toys, she buys a couple of new small things and she wraps them up in aluminum foil because just the process of unwrapping them with the aluminum foil and the crinkle can be really fun for a toddler, and I thought that was great. But I honestly think that the biggest thing for flying with children who are pre iPad age is like patience and just try and adopt some sort of sense of them and just push through like you will get there eventually. But there is there is nothing that will that will make it super easy. That's actually kind of a good mindset in general. I mean, it's okay in life for eight hours of life to suck. I mean it's going to happen at some point in your life. It's going to happen, and it will make you stronger in the end, and you're seeing maybe it will increase their understanding of the universe. So Handley, there's next sort of questions kind of tie into each other because you have a family of five now, which you may have noticed that many hotels kind of max out with four. Yep ideas for sort of bigger family travel like how to manage that, and then also the question of whether you make your group bigger by maybe bringing someone along rather like a grandparent or aunt or you know, a caregiver to make the thing the time go easier. Yeah, it's true. The change from four to five is large when it comes to what you're going to have to book in a hotel. There's a lot of hotels where you can get a room that will fit four, whether it's two queen sized beds or you know, a bed in a sofa bed. Once you switch over to five when you still have a baby, so if you're still talking, if you're fifth person and is crib sized, you can often still make it work. And I am trying to right now, but as soon as that child becomes in need of a bed, you really do switch over to needing two rooms. In most cases, if you can bring someone with you to help, you know, a grandparent or a caregiver, then booking two rooms can often it sort of works out. Well, we're going to need two rooms anyhow, so then if grandma's there too, then we also don't have to worry about if those rooms are connecting, so maybe we can get two of the least expensive rooms, and knowing that there's an adult in each one also a little bit of extra help to give mom and dad some break time without having to hire a babysitter while they're on the road. But yeah, I think it really is a problem when you think about how much you're going to spend on your hotel because if you like nice hotels, and I do, it is suddenly the amount that you have to spend a stay in them could easily double. So it also is one of those things where I say, sometimes you can look at the best hotel and there's second best option that is a lot less expensive. Consider that at least for a while. Yeah, do you advocate for like, are there certain I don't know, alternative arrangements, Like have you had good luck with airbnbs or certain you know, places that sort of advertise more family friendly suites or anything like that. Yeah, I think so. I like hotels because one of the things I like when I'm traveling is not having to worry about grocery shopping and who's going to make breakfast and did we take out the garbage. So I tend not to do apartment stays, even though I think there's a really good, solid argument for doing it. So if you're willing to do a little bit of that extra work, having a kitchen, you know, where you can just pour out some cereo for your kid and getting a little more space can be really really great. I'm just lazy, and I want to do it. But that said, there are hotels that have apartment apartments that are part of the hotels, so you can still have the hotel service, but you do get a little bit more space and you get that kitchen, which if you're spending a little bit more on the hotel but you have the kitchen, then that can help bring down your costs in other ways. So I try to balance it out like that. Yeah, we stayed in a place in Hawaii with to Olani that's Disney resort there that all the a lot of the hotel rooms had the kitchen in it, and you know, you still wound up eating out for like lunch and dinner, but then you could have leftovers for breakfast, for instance, just in your hotel room, and that was kind of nice. Yeah, And I think, particularly depending on where you're traveling in Hawaii that you've got jet lag, the kids are going to wake up at weird hours and they may be hungry at weird hours, and so to have a kitchen have and actually this is something I'd advise, even if you don't have a kitchen, keep some snacks on hand because anytime that there's jet lag, if there's somebody who's begging for breakfast at three o'clock in the morning. If you can throw something at them, they might be likely to go back to sleep versus you know, being hungry and sort of awake and at the wrong hours. Yeah, and I will say that now, with all those online grocery delivery services, if you do a little planning ahead, you might not even have to do that much extra work. You could just arrive there and have people drop off your stuff and then go on your way. Yes, yes, that stuff like that can help to just looking up local services that can sort of help you with your pre stocking so that you're not running to the closest horsery store yourself. So, Henley, I am still I haven't even planned President's Day. This is probably gonna run maybe right around that at the time, but to thinking of doing something, but well also thinking of trying to figure out spring break in late March. I may or may not bring the three year old, that's unclear, But then so the three kids that would be involved would be the ten, eight and six year old. I'm curious your top destinations, like, as you've roamed the world, are are there surprisingly family friendly places that you would recommend. I think my theory is kind of anywhere it can be family friendly if you think about it the right way. A lot of people tend to default to the Caribbean kind of beach resort, Florida, stuff like that, because it's very easy with kids. I think once you get to the age of six, eight and ten, there's a lot more that you can start doing with them. And in this winter, particularly, a lot of the Caribbean is not is not a possibility because of the hurricanes that really devastated so many islands last fall. So because of that, and then also because of concerns about Zeca. For anyone who is considering more children, people I think are pushing the boundaries a little bit. We've seen I actually did this myself for spring break last year. We went to Morocco. It is a six hour flight. It is like as easy as going to California, but it is culturally very different. It's it was an amazing place to show the kids. Were there were something for the kids everywhere, something for them to see, something for them to do. The food was easy for them to eat. The hotels were beautiful and less expensive, and that was something that you know, it sounds like a big adventure. But ever since I went, we've seen more and more families doing it. Because if you feel like somebody sort of pre scouted it for you, you can take that plunge and it really is going to be something that seems incredibly different than what you're doing at home. Yes, I would say Morocco is whatever. Yeah, that was an That's a really new one I have never did. I want to hear from you. I mean, we've seen so many families do because we're an agency, so we helped plan these trips for people, and the number of requests we've had for Morocco has really gone through the roof this year, and I think it is in part due to the fact that people are saying, well, if I can't do my normal Caribbean vacation because the resort is still being rebuilt, what could I do that would be different? And my kids are ready for an adventure. But I don't want to do a really long flight to somewhere, you know, I don't want to have a lot of jet lag. And that's something that can be really simple. Latin America is the same thing. Tons of people going to Costa Rica and Nicaragua, Laura. I know you guys did Nicaragua a few years ago. Like that is a place that has really come up where people are again are saying, I want the beach and I want it to be warm, but I also want to do something that's beyond just sitting there by the pool all day. I want a little bit of adventure. And once your kids are at that sort of above age five, there's so much for them to choose from. All right, I'm ready to detail down. Okay, Marac goes. If you are going to do like a Europe trip with young kids, I mean, so the obvious when I was thinking about is London, just because the language, like they can speak it, and the food is relatively similar and such a kid friendly story. Yeah, okay, all right, I'm ready that down. Anywhere else you'd throw out there in Europe? Yeah, so London. London is a great first stop because the flight is easy, the language is easy, the food is easy, and there are parks everywhere. I mean, there's there's a point where your child is getting bored of something, there's going to be a park around the corner. So it's very easy place to sort of have your sort of culture time and have your downtime, and there's also great countryside that you can explore outside of it, so without taking another flight, you can have two different experiences to the city and the country. Paris is harder with kids in certain ways, but I was really surprised the first time I took my daughter there. She was five years old, and I was surprised. Although there aren't as many parks, it's not as green as city as London. There are playgrounds everywhere, including by the way on the side of Notre Dame, where there are always horrendous lines, so you can have one parent in line waiting to get into Notre Dame and the other one on the side of the cathedral. There's a playground and part of the Notre Dame ground, so there are things things like that. I think though, that another that Barcelona is actually a city that is probably tied for me with with London as being super kid friendly, and that it is easy to walk, very very welcoming to kids in almost any restaurant. Food is Spanish food is easy for most children to eat. It's a lot of simple stuff, so that is one that I might put sort of above Paris, even though I do really really like Paris for kids, but it's an again, an easy first stop, and there are trains, so if you want to combine a Barcelona in Madrid, you can do a fast train in between. You don't have to shlup back to the airport. Nice. All right, these are all great ideas. And obviously Italy, oh my gosh, the land of Pizza, and they might actually go for that. I was I'm pondering that that could work. Yeah, how about well before how about domestically, because you mentioned we have Morocco of Latin America, we have Europe. Do you have a favorite? I don't know. Obviously many places are kid friendly in the US, but in your memory some are really fun and exciting that you've done recently. Yeah. I like places that, when it comes to kids, that are walkable. So as much as La is a wonderful city to visit with kids, I think that it's it's hard to be in certain parts of the city. Although uber is so pervasive now that it's easy to get around, but not if you need a car seat. So for La, I actually recommend doing more like Santa Monica and Venice West La because it puts you you're right on the beach. You actually can walk around those neighborhoods. You have great shopping, great eating, and then you just use a car when you're going in to you know, to go into Hollywood and do a little bit more tours. Francisco is a blast. The one thing to know is if your child is stroller age, it is hard to put strollers up and down those hills, so oh my gosh. Yeah, it is something that's maybe maybe for a little bit older. And you can do Alcatraz and again an easy combination because I love places where you can get more than one thing out of a week without having to get on a plane. An easy combination is to do a little bit of San Francisco and then also do some time down in the Carmel area. The Monterey Aquarium is phenomenal and is a really easy thing to add on. One thing to note about that is you should buy your tickets for a Monterey Aquarium ahead because they sell out, so that's don't you don't want to mess that one up. And then Florida for someone who wants something that's just simple and easy and still warm, Miami is incredible. There's a fascinating art scene, Windwood has the Windwood Walls, which are huge, huge murals done digraffiti artists that come from around the world. This is the kind of art kids, even little kids, can really get into because it's big, colorful. You know, we're broadcas testing live from Miami Beach. I feel so cool. Yes, that's our backyard. Wind Wood is awesome. I agree, it's incredible. I think people have or a lot of families at least, have written off Miami as being Oh, it's too much of a party scene. But it is such a great place to be with kids. And again, depending on where you're staying, there's a lot that's walkable that you can do, restaurants, you can do shopping, you can do Beach really without ever getting into car, and just use a car when you want to pop over to something like wind would. So I'm a huge Miami fan. Well there it goes. Sarah, is awesome. You have found the place to be Henley in terms of the the obvious stuff people think about for family travel, like in terms of theme parks and cruises. Are you are you totally not into that or is that? Well, in the past year, I have done both Atlantis and Disney, so I got my toe into it, and I think, like with everything else, it's all about planning. So don't you know there are tactics to use at each of them. I just did Atlantis a couple weekends ago, and what we did is we stayed at a hotel that was on Paradise Island where Atlantis is, but we weren't actually in the Atlantis complex. And that was really nice because we go over and we could do it, but then we could also step away from it and stay somewhere a little bit quieter, and we had a blast. I loved it. I loved the water slides. It was so so fun. Disney was a little bit harder on me. I did not love Disney as much, but it was special for the kids. And I think the key there is just understanding their app system is very helpful with their fast passes, and doing a little bit of research and planning before you go about how to make the best use of sort of the perks that you get immediately just by buying a Disney ticket will help your day run a little bit more smoothly. Have you done cruises or I have not done a cruise. I know a lot of families really love it though, just because of again, you can go and do different things without getting on air plane and in this case not even packing or unpacking. And there are places that, for example, Alaska, it's it's best done from a boat. Yeah, yeah, And I mean, I guess the other thing that people always think about too is like those all inclusive resort type things. I mean, do you think that's I think be careful with all inclusive resorts that some are very good and some are not. And one of the things to always look at is the pricing of them. We as parents often think, well, if it's all inclusive, it's so nice because they don't have to worry if my kid eats a piece of a bagel and throws it away. The fact is sometimes they are priced so high that actually your kid could throw half bagels away all day and you probably would still never spend that much money. Plus, a lot of resorts have kids menus or kids eat free under a certain age. So do your research before you commit to an all inclusive situation, because, particularly if you're going somewhere where you want to be able to experience a little bit of the local culture, being in an all inclusive is really good. Discourage you from getting out and about. So, for example, in Mexico, like I love getting out and doing things and seeing things and meeting people and eating at more local spots. That that is what Mexico is all about. If you're in an all inclusive you're really going to be less inclined to do that. Yeah. So, speaking of all that you talked about, all this research and all that, a lot of people in this in this day and age, you know, feel like, well, obviously I can book on my travel myself, I can look into all this this stuff. There's so much on the internet and the availability of those tools. Why why should someone you know, consider working with people like you and with you know, various people are in the travel industry and what can you guys do that we can't. Yeah, I think agencies are really seeing a big comeback right now. I think we're all a little bit underwater because there seems to be so much interest in and having some help when it comes to planning your trip. And there's a lot of people who specialize in different kinds of travel or different places. So for example, there are people who all they do is book cruises, and they know cruises like nobody's business. To talk to someone who has been to that hotel, or on that boat, or stayed in that theme park or tried out that guide is very different than what you're going to get from just googling around online. I do that myself too, but even I will we'll call local people or talk to other friends in the industry when I'm going somewhere new to get their all of their intel. I think preparing, Let's face it, vacation is expensive. Preparing and making sure you've done your research and had the right person helping you means you get more out of it, and I'm all in favor of anything that says better value for our money. The other thing to know is that depending on what kinds of travel you're doing, if you are staying in a luxury hotel, travel agents actually can get you better, better perks than you would get on your own. So if you're going for the budget stuff, then actually online is where you're going to find the best rates, and that's definitely what you should be booking. Be aware of. You know what's what's on there, look into the different packages and buy that. If you're going high end, agents are going to be able to get you the room upgrades, the resort credits, the free breakfast, and that kind of stuff that we'll stretch your budget a little bit. In terms of you say, you you google around a lot to find something, but what do you look at? I'm like, what do you find as a reliable source that I'm a big fan of eaters lists for restaurants, so that is that is usually my first stop when I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to eat somewhere. Is I look at eater because they have They've done a really good job of expanding around the world, and I mean everywhere from Hong Kong to Paris. You know, you can find something as well as San Francisco or even New York. When I want to figure out where I'm going to go out for the night, I look at their list to see where are people eating right now? What are the essential restaurants to know about? I look at a company called Context Travel. They have guides now almost everywhere around the world, domestic and abroad, where they do really great tours. They can do them in small groups or privately. So if I'm not totally sure what to do in a certain place, I'll go and I'll look and I'll see what their their tours show, and that will usually help me figure out what neighborhoods are helpful. And then I really like their guides and I tend to use them myself as well as for clients in terms of sort of getting a little bit of an intro to a city. You know. It's interesting. It's almost like the availability of online resources has become so vast that I wonder if that's part of what has escalated people's interests in an expert, because it's too much for any one person to sift through. And also the fact that there are so many more sort of sponsored posts where you can't tell whether it's someone's real opinion that makes me want to run to you, you know, or someone like you who has this, you know, actual experience with these places or experience of other clients with these places that can give you an unbiased answer then compared to something that you just read online. An unbiased answer and a filter. I think a filter is the biggest because if you just were to google around and our best hotels Miami, you're going to get an endless list. If you talk to somebody who really knows that if you talk to you in Miami, you're going to be able to say, oh no, no no, no, no, no, yeah that, but you're staying in this part and it's going to be far to get to the beachure the traffic's bad there, or this place has a really loud night club, so be careful about that. Those are the kinds of things that we need to know because it filters it for us. And I think with so much information online, although it's helpful and we can dig and do some research, it's all so good to have a filter. Sara, do you have any other questions? I think those are the that was a lot that was super help Oh yes, no, I did have one that we had talked about. So. I have experienced travel with kids in two very different ways. One we sort of mentioned this like bring another caregiver or not? Do you have experience or recommendations for how it can work well when you bring a nanny or other babysitter with you, Like do you give them time days off? Do you you know, negotiate what you're going to do, how you're going to use their services in advance. And I will say that in my experience, I will gladly cut corners in other areas of a trip to have some help, because to me, that's what can turn it from a trip to a vacation. So I wanted to know if you had thoughts on Yeah, I agree one hundred percent. If you can bring a caregiver with you, it changes everything. I do think that it's important ahead of time. This is this is a person. This is not their vacation. This is she is working. He or she is actually on the job. So before you go on that trip, they should know what are the working hours, what is the downtime, what's included, and you as a family should discuss, well, you know, is she eating dinner with us or do we want to have a little bit of family time and also give her a little bit of downtime. What are the expectations throughout the day. But I do think it's important to remember that it's not a vacation for her, so you have to really treat it as such and make sure that you're allowing that person to get a little bit of rest and that you're compensating them for the extra time that they're spending away from their family. I think if you aren't traveling with a caregiver, and you're hiring babysitters. The way that I would recommend is I usually go through the hotel because that way there's a little bit of vetting, so you know that it's somebody who's coming through a hotel that works at that hotel. They've checked this person, they approve of this person, and so if you can't bring somebody using your hotel to help you do it, we'll make that work better. Great point. Well, we always do our love of the Week section at the end of our interviews, so we're hoping we can keep you on the line for a few more minutes to do this. Absolutely shared something that we have loved in the past, are loving now to be an app a thing, or just something in general. So, Sarah, what's yours this week? Mine? I was going to share my favorite vacation I took when my kids were little, and that was a trip to santabel Island when they were I think eight months and two and a half. And I guess my level of the week is going low key and bringing a caregiver. That's kind of what we just talked about, but for us, that's within driving distance. We rented a non extravagant kind of cabin. And you know, we obviously paid our nanny more than she would have gotten paid should she have just worked a regular week. But that was what made that trip so nice because we got to have time with the kids and then we got to also have adult time going out for dinner. And when you have a three year old or two and a half year old and eight month old, really any of that time together feels like a vacation, like if you have it doesn't really matter where you are. So I guess that's just a shout out for going low key but making sure you have adequate help when your kids are really little. Yeah, I mean I would say related, I I have a different level of the week, right my pile onto that is that if you do actually have a wide spread of ages with your kids. What we have done is left the littlest one at home with the caregiver and then taken a short trip with the older kids, because that way you can do stuff that would have been a lot more painful with a little one. So when we went to Hawaii, for instance, I mean I had offered ar nanny if she wanted to come with us with the little one, she could, and she was kind of like I would prefer not to be on the plane with your child for twelve hour ten hours, So it's like, all right, point taken, even if you're getting a trip to Hawaiiyah to this. So she she stayed with him and the big kids and it was it was there was still you know, it's not easy being on a plane for twelve hours with anyone, but it was certainly a lot more doable than it would have been with him. So throwing that out as an idea as well. But my specific love of the week was was was Travelocity. And I do love using agents and I've used like, you know, Disney specific ones because they're willing to like watch for when the Cinderella thing comes open, because someone's careful. But uhilacity, I you know, you can now check like I was. You know, somebody was asking me if I could do a speech in Salt Lake City like right after one that I'm in Toronto, and I now know that there are direct flights when they leave right and in the past that would have been really hard to figure around. So I'll throw that out there as a small business owner that it is kind of nice to be able to check stuff like that. All right, Henley, how about you? So my love of the week is actually about traveling without your children. It's the staycation, which is I think one of the best ways that you can get in a little time and you don't actually have to go anywhere. We just did one, after all this travel we've been doing with the kids. We just checked into a hotel that was four blocks away from our house. We walked there with the suitcase, and we ate dinner there and hung out and had, you know, forgot what time it was, didn't have to worry about bottles and bedtime and baths and books and all of this stuff, and then walked home the next morning and it felt like I have been away for a week. So my love of the week is carving out those little bits of travel time that actually take almost no complications in your life and still let you have a little bit of feeling like an adult. So very cool. I would totally do. Yeah, Well, be sure to visit Henley Vazquez online. She's at passported dot com and you can see what she offers and the various reviews she has will be a lot helpful for our listeners who are planning their trips. So thank you so much, Henley. Thank you guys both. And that brings us to our Q and a segment not related to travel, but still we thought a really interesting question to tackle. This one comes from a someone who wrote into Laura and they wrote, I love your podcast, Thank you. I'm the mother of sixteen month old twins and then the primary breadwinner for our household. Here's my dilemma. My husband was a stay at home dad for the first year of our kids' lives, and he did such a great job. Now he's back to work three days a week as a psychotherapist, and he just told me he wants to start another day a week. My problem is that he's not making enough money in a month to pay for a week of daycare, let alone the entire month, so the extra day will cost more for daycare. The hope is that maybe eventually he will have enough clients to fill that day. I know on your daycare podcast, you mentioned that going back to work as an investment in your future, but how do you finance it in the short term? For example, how do you make the calculation as to how much spouse is making versus daycare costs? They talk about the daycare that they're using, that it's right near their house and it's pretty good and it's reasonably priced, and that the dad can check from his office on the kids. And by the way, I will mention that this Questionnaer wrote that she got inspired by Laura's book. I know how she does it can bridge the question. It's like, No, that's important because you want to remind people that there are some great resources out there. But no, we thought this was a great question, especially since we've had similar questions with the genders reversed, and so we wanted to sort of check some of our biases at the door. Laura, I'll let you take this one. Yeah. No, it's funny because I did. I noticed I had the certain vies, Like I could see it from her perspective, in the sense that like she had a good thing going right, Like her husband was home with the kids, so she wasn't paying for daycare, so he was probably doing a lot of the stuff that was around the house too. And then he goes back to work and she loses some of that. And not only that, the daycare costs are coming out of her salary because he's not earning enough yet to cover it, and so you can understand from her perspective the frustration. But then I also realized, like, well, I would you know, if I've heard this question from a man whose wife had been home with their kids and who wanted to get back to work, I would have been very probably straightforward of saying, well, you know, she wants to do this. I think if you know, if you want to keep the marriage happy, like you need to acknowledge that they're startup costs for going back to anything, right, And you can't expect somebody who's coming back from time out of the workforce to necessarily earn as much as they would as if they'd been in the whole time. And particularly if some building up a practice, there's going to be times where the money may not be coming in as much as you want in the beginning. And I know this from my own life too, not that I've had time out of the workforce, but I made the decisions shortly after becoming a parent to sort of focus more of my efforts on book writing, and books don't necessarily pay all that well right out of the gate. You getting a contract for one, takes time getting an advance, you know, even if it's a pretty good advance. You're only going to get a small chunk of that on signing the contract, Like more comes over the next two or three years as it comes out. So it's a big investment. And you know, I stopped writing as many articles, which were what I've been doing before, and my income pretty much dropped by half when I made that decision. Now it came back, and I have booked enough work by the time we were recording this on January twenty four, whatever it is to have my best year ever, and that stuff I've booked by January twenty four. So it was a good decision monetarily, but it did require that my husband was okay with saying like, oh, well, you know it's okay that you're not making enough to cover the salary of a full time nanny when you subtract taxes, that it's okay that you are still working. If he'd put it that way, I probably would have been a bit offended. But there is still that said that I do believe childcare is a shared expense. So I think one thing that this woman can help he hermind sat is that we're both starting from wanting to be at work, like leave a side that he wasn't in the workforce for a while. As your default, you both want to be at work. Whatever the cost of daycare is for your girls, it is a shared expense. If you only assign half of that cost to what he is earning, does that make it better? Right? Does that make the economics sound better? I think that's one first thing you need to do and then the other thing. And you were probably going to get to this too, But like, remember that day care is not forever, so those expenses are absolutely transient. Yes, there are going to be other expenses as they enter school, and school does not cover you know, full office hours. But you know, first of all, the husband may have a bit of flexibility there, so maybe he can tailor it to more fit school hours once they do have those number of hours out of the home. And number two, it probably isn't going to rai as much as full time daycare for two toddlers. So really looking at it as much more of a long term investment in happiness and career and less crunching than numbers. Because this reader is very focused on you know, how do you calculate? I think you should stop calculating and be like, if you can do this, you should, Yeah, I mean, if they don't have money to live on the right, well that's the if you can. Maybe they can't can't, then that's another story. Although that I mean, I would say again, if somebody is starting a business, you often understand that there are costs associated and sometimes people spend more more than they're taking in for a bit of time as they're starting a business, and you might look at it from the perspective of setting it might help her because she is focused on these numbers to sort of set a timeline for when he hopes to be, you know, at making a certain amount of money that she feels would be a break even point or then a bit beyond the break even point, and what would that point be, and they could evaluate toward that point, like let's say we were going to give this a year that we're paying for four days of daycare, with the goal being that by the end of the year you have enough clients to make that number, and we will evaluate how it's going at let you know, six months and twelve months. Although you got to be careful with that because this is your spouse, right, This is not somebody who reports to you that you're trying to you know, have make their numbers right. But maybe if reality dictates that you do need a deadline, like for example, like you said, like we're going to run out of money, figure out how long it would take you to quote unquote run out of money. And then it's not that you're doing it out of cold hearted business, you know acuum, and it's it's really like in reality, we have until this time to figure out if this works, and then otherwise we have to reassess. But I like the deadline concept. But you're right, it's a little different than you're than a business deal. Yeah, but if you do that, then I think that will keep in her mind that this this sort of pain of paying extra for childcare when it's not yet coming in is a temporary situation. And you know, maybe there are some other places that they can economize in their lives. There's always, you know, some place that you can maybe be a little bit more judicious and spending if this is a family priority, and then set the deadline that that will that will help them get toward that. Well, this has been best of both worlds. We have been talking travel and then a stay at home dad getting back into the workforce, so tune in next week when we will be back with more on making work in life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.