2025 Walker Cup at Cypress Point with Geoff Shackelford

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I missed a green, for example, I'm already upset.

00:00:02
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a fried Egg.

00:00:07
Speaker 1: Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday, Fridagg, Fridagg, Brian egg.

00:00:11
Speaker 3: Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the up course. Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host Andy Johnson, and I am I'm very excited about this week. An event that I've been looking forward to the entire year is the Walker Cup at Cyprus Point. Really been looking forward to this event for like five years. This is going to be a spectacle. It'll be on on Saturday and so on Peacock and Golf Channel. So check your you know, local listings, whatever you do now, check your streaming apps however you get your golf on TV.

00:01:10
Speaker 2: That will be on there.

00:01:12
Speaker 3: It's the best amateurs in the world playing arguably the best golf course in the world. It should be a visual delight and some really fun shots from from some of the future big names in golf. So with the occasion to talk about Cypress Point and the amateur game, there's there's probably the top of a short list of guests that I would like to have on Jeff Shackelford. Jeff wrote the book Alistair Mackenzie Cypress Point Club. It's a book that you can purchase when if you visit Cypress Point. Is a delightful read on Cypress Point. And Jeff's newsletter, The Quadrilateral. It's a subseac newsletter that is absolutely a must read in the golf space. Cover the amateur game and the Walker Cup, you know, the big, big moments in amateur golf, and we'll be on site at the Walker Cup at Cyprus Point, so it was great to have Jeff on talk about, you know, Cyprus and the Walker Cup, So enjoy this. We might have an additional podcast this week.

00:02:20
Speaker 2: We'll see.

00:02:21
Speaker 3: We've been working on scheduling something and if it comes through, you might see a later in the week's podcast that will be centered around Cyprus Point. So hopefully we get that done and we'll have an additional pod for you guys this week. But this episode with Jeff is brought to you by our friends at Mercedes Benz. For more than thirty years, Mercedes Benz has supported golf all around the world from partnering with the most prestigious major championships, tournaments, and players in the professional game. Mercedes Benz SUVs are the perfect companions for golf enthusiasts seeking performance, style, and space on the way to the course, and the GLS stands out as the pinnacle of this lineup. This is a really sharp car, a car it kind of stops you in your tracks when you see it driving around town. It combines power and finesse and is backed by twelve driver assist systems, nimble handling and cutting edge AI technology, and of course, Mercedes Benz superb craft craftsmanship. The GLS reflects Mercedes Benz philosophy to deliver the world's greatest vehicles. Learn more about the GLS and Mercedes Benz full lineup of SUVs at mbusa dot com. Big thanks to Mercedes Benz. Now let's get to Jeff Shackleford. Jeff, welcome on. It's always always a pleasure. I've been I've been saving this one. I figured this was the perfect, the perfect topic for you coming on the podcast. Obviously, you've written a book about pside Point. You've had a long career going to attending golf events, and you've been a you know, over the year is a huge supporter and fan of the Walker Cup. This year we get Cyprus Point and the Walker Cup. You know, just in terms of your anticipation, where does it rank in you know, in the the probably hundreds now of golf events that you've attended in your life.

00:04:28
Speaker 1: Oh, it's right up there with an Open or a Walker Cup at the Old Course which we had two years ago, which lived up. Actually it really exceeded are everybody's wildest dreams. I think in terms of the way the course played and the quality of the matches was just I still think about that, how amazing the golf was when you and there were some very young raw players who could have been intimidated by the stage and weren't. So I think this one's going to be just as epic. Others should be good. Hopefully there's not too much fog courses, Yeah, I mean it has some. It's spectacular in every way, don't get me wrong. But I would love to have seen the captains maybe you know, agree to play a roll back ball, but they won't, so we have and part doesn't matter in a way. But the par fives are really spectacular going out and there's what are there four of them in the first ten holes, and they've reduced what two of them do Part four's and again it doesn't in match play they're going to hit the same t shot, but they are holes that they have cool layup elements to them, and when when the distance is sort of in line. But that said, you know, I think you probably can confirm this from the your round during the media day. There's a couple holes coming in that are and I I always hate saying this, but or probably better and with modern distances, at least in this setting, with the Walker Cup, the format, the players and all that, you know, fourteen and seventeen could have some really unusual dimensions that the average person who plays Cyprus point doesn't think about taking on certain kinds of risks depending on the status of the match. So it's everything about the Walker Cups spectacular, except the fact that I think it should be three days so but so far they haven't budged on that one.

00:06:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, three days more television coverage would be two of my big things. You know, I think we get a lot in comparison to you know, years in past.

00:06:35
Speaker 2: We get six hours a day.

00:06:37
Speaker 3: I mean, but you know, and I think in terms of like I'm very interested to see from the telecast standpoint where what level of telecast they bring. You know, they have varying levels of of you know, bells and whistles that they bring out, and you know, I think at the bottom of the of the tiers is usually what you see from an amateur college level. And I'm hoping that that Cyprus point warrants a bit more cameras and people on site for the television viewing audience.

00:07:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, the US Amateur coverage was good. I mean, the really good news is that the USGA has renewed with NBC Versant Peacock, et cetera, et cetera. Because in twenty thirteen at the National Golf Links, they had just found out a couple months before they were losing the USGA deal to Fox, and they really crept on that one. It was it was really a shame, you know, National Golf Links the one time in our lifetime you're going to have an event there, and probably the same case here in terms of the venue. But I'm more confident now that they're going to remain a partner through twenty thirty two. And from what I saw, the US Amateur coverage at Olympic, especially you know with the drone usage it. Yeah, and I hopefully the best you know, ultra high def cameras, not the not the one of the one of those wireless things that they use for the corn ferry and the Champions Store now that are that are fuzzy, because yeah, when the sun is out at Cyprus Point, it's in the afternoon, it's just going to be incredible.

00:08:16
Speaker 3: It's been exceptionally clear this week, so I'm hoping that it continues into next week. We've been we've been fogless in uh in San Francisco, which which has been very nice. You know, my cubs with my cubs in town has been nice that it hasn't been fog, but it you know, the results, you know, maybe we needed fog, you know, that would have helped our team out. Let's talk about Cypress Point. Obviously incredible golf course. If you you know, I we you were a big part of our Cypress Point video that's on YouTube, that's forty minutes. That is pretty in depth on the golf course. But if you were going to bring three points about what makes Cypress great, and let's it's just you know, and I think obviously it's most famous for the ocean finish, you know, for fifteen sixteen seventeen. But what are three things that really stand out to you about Cyprus point.

00:09:15
Speaker 1: Well, number one, I think that everybody who goes there and has the privilege of playing it or drives through on the seventeen mile drive and sees it. You just go through these and you guys covered it nicely in the video, these three different environments essentially, and you kind of weave in and out of a couple, but it takes you on this little journey, which is what I think we hope the best courses do that. It's like a great hike or a great film. There's some mystery, there's some surprise, builds up to a big ending cypress case. We can discuss the eighteenth Hole a little more controversial, but I think there were reasons for that. I don't think that's the it's the end of the world. By the way that it's a four hundred and ninety yard par four dog laying around the ocean. It just is a matter of they needed to get back to the clubhouse. So it's that little journey that takes you through there that is uh, is really spectacular. Number.

00:10:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just one of the things about the journey. This is just I was talking to somebody yesterday about another golf course that has like a similar kind of journey, and I was and I think, like that golf course is very well thought of, But like I think the difference between Cypress and a lot of places is a lot of places have like this journey where they go to a less a more ordinary stretch of topography and then they have maybe ocean frontage and they jog. They do a similar way, I think, And I was, you know, this conversation I was talking about. The thing about Cypress in the journey is like every part of the journey is like arguably as spectacular as the ocean frontage. Like the forest is so beautiful and so like I think like people that maybe live in California, they get a little numb to some of the setting. But if you are, you know, somebody from the Midwest or the East Coast, you go back into that forest and you're like, this is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. Then you come out on those dunes and they're so spectacular, just like I mean, you just you see these like, I don't know. I think they're probably like fifty sixty foot dunes that you're playing on off of around and then the ocean frontage is obviously incredible. But what makes the journey work so well is that you love being in all the environments and one environment. You could make it arguments that certain environments are as good as the ocean environment versus you know, some places that go into an environment, but there's one area that's that's so much better than the rest of the property.

00:12:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, that does happen a lot, especially in places that are real estate driven and even and of course people forget this was a real estate development. Yeah, it never quite went where they thought because of the depression, but it was. It is just like positive tempa, which you don't really think of our least I don't as a real estate development either, which is a tribute to the land planners and the way they laid out the housing and set it back and things like that that you just don't I mean, bel air the same thing. It's a housing development and you don't really think of it that way.

00:12:44
Speaker 3: I mean, do you hit on something like it's amazing golf architecture in the twenties. Obviously, I think we probably share as like the best that it ever was. And there were like real estate driven golf courses built then that did a really tasteful job, like Pasa Tiempo. Cipher's point would be reverful revere. Another one would be short acres is like a you know, kind of the whole land plan. There was real estate driven too, you know. And and and I think, like it's amazing how much worse the real estate plan with golf course got in the you know, seventies and eighties.

00:13:25
Speaker 1: It's really amazed me that when you think about, yeah, how how many have happened since, and nobody's done anything to to sort of mimic these these past development styles or mimic Saint Andrew's. You don't build a build a little community, have some condos, have some homes, but it all be up in this clustered area and then leave the golf fairly free of it all. It just it's just greed and and trying to maximize how many blots you can get in a certain space. And and in this case say they I mean, there were some early plans they were a little more aggressive, but like I said, the depression came along, and the place, it's hard for us to imagine today that the place really struggled early and they ended up filling in a whole bunch of bunkers. And and and I haven't found the right word, but the club has always had this I don't I don't like saying frugal, but they've always had this. They've operated like.

00:14:25
Speaker 2: That.

00:14:25
Speaker 1: Their their forefathers sort of passed along this. Hey just just don't get carried away here. There could be another depression. And so they've always just done things on a very humble scale there for a place that is so spectacular and and and that's great because one, you don't want to compete with the spectacular beauty, but it's also part of again, the part of the journey. The way you pull in, there're no there are no lines in the parking lot. Uh. There is just this sort of relaxed vibe. The clubhouses feels like an old home that was converted to a golf clubhouse more than a golf clubhouse. And they're no carts beeping, they no cart boys greeting you, you know, with a headset on and all that stuff. So it it just you you arrive. It's it's simple. The caddies don't wear you know, white jump suits all. It's just down the list, and and and and and Jim Langley probably was part of that, the longtime pro too, setting that tone, and it's uh, I hope it never loses that.

00:15:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are there are things that I think, like this is the case with Augusta Nastional too, right, Like there are so many things about Cyprus point that people marvel at. It's like the the example, like one of the prime examples of of like great golf in America that people would point to, and everybody points to the ocean front stretch. Like some things that the club does that I think are just very sensible, Like you talked about the you know, for lack of a better word, like humble budget, humble, the way they go about things like they are. They do not just like lavishly spend money, even though they could lavishly spend money, you know, to me, like what's crazy you know in terms of like something that the rest of golf hasn't like taken up that they have, right, Yeah, they have a if you're if you're a member, you can you can set up your like a friend for an unaccompanied fosome. And the way it works is you play in the first hour of the day, right and the club, you know, they have like a very nice green fee out. I'm going to leave out the exact number of it, but they have a very nice green fee and and you think about like what that does for the club is like they have like we'll just call it four to six foursomes like maybe on certain days more, maybe certain days less that pay the club. You know, nice revenue they have, like this nice revenue piece in the morning they let people come play that are you know that members set up and they walk away. Every day like in the morning they open their doors to X number of dollars and that helps sustain the club. It helps keep keep dues down from members. And that coupled with the caddies working, yeah, keeps the caddies.

00:17:18
Speaker 2: It keeps the caddies working the you know.

00:17:21
Speaker 3: The that plus like humble spending means that the club is not like it's not going to break your bank to be a member of it, right, you know, even though the membership could afford for it to break the bank, you know. And I think like it's just like they do sensible things there, and you compare it with like this like trend of all these clubs like being like let's take out a line of debt to to uh, you know, furnish our twenty five million dollar renovation. It's like Cypress has renovated and restored itself over thirty years very slowly. Like Cypress does this thing. Like you know, the clubs that are taken out the loan also are like we can let nobody in. We can't let anybody come play this course without a member, and it's like this is the best course in the world.

00:18:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is.

00:18:10
Speaker 2: What they're doing.

00:18:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well maybe that's something we will come out of this Walker cup that we can at.

00:18:17
Speaker 3: No.

00:18:18
Speaker 1: Well, it was a nice thought, but but yeah, I completely agree with all those points.

00:18:23
Speaker 2: It's it's nobody walks around.

00:18:25
Speaker 3: Augustine says, look at how few bunkers are there.

00:18:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, now they have had, you know they It did get to where it got a little out of control, and it's questionable who what drove some of the bunkers that were filled in there at Cyprus. But it really changed a lot and even when.

00:18:44
Speaker 4: I when I did my book, there was still a lot of of a pretty significant tussle over why should we put these back and why should we we do this stuff?

00:18:57
Speaker 1: And I think it was as much driven by philosophy and people thinking you were going to beat up on the average member that it was cost at that point, but it was, you know, and it was also before a lot of places restored. So and Jeff Marco has done a beautiful job. I would love to see the bunkers be a little fringeier to kind of that dark look that Mackenzie clearly loved. He posed for so many photos when when they they had a look where everything was cut pretty tight, but then they were there was this sort of dark, fringy edge that really mimic that really brought out the cypress tree sort of juxtaposition. And they're a little cleaner now today and that may just be preference to or or I'm not sure exactly what at this point, but that's nitpicking at this but you know, he did he did post for a lot of photos when they course got to a certain point that was clearly his way of saying that we found our sweet spot here.

00:19:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, A friend of mine, Josh Pettitt, managed to find the putter that he famously posed with on the fifteenth Green, and he brought it out when we were out there. He was posing with it, you know, trying to mimic the the famous photo of him, like pointing to something with the putter.

00:20:15
Speaker 1: I have. I have photos that nobody needs to see of me. And also Mike Devrees on the second story of the clubhouse, emulating Mackenzie, sat kind of leaning on the rail looking out at his master work and for fun during one of the during the Mackenzie Society's event there we we just we we we replicated that one.

00:20:37
Speaker 3: It's apparently he stayed in the same room, that corner room of the clubhouse every time he visited.

00:20:43
Speaker 1: Oh okay, well that's interesting. Yeah, it's a I got to stay there one time. It's it's spectacular, So I don't blame him.

00:20:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, good spot today.

00:20:52
Speaker 1: Yeah. You leave the doors open, and you hear the you hear the seals just bark all night long, you know, like, don't you guys ever sleep, Come on stop hark. Yeah, it's it's it's again. That clubhouse is just a model for certain places. Obviously a place with a bigger membership, but it doesn't work. But it works there and they really haven't changed it. It was decorated by an artist at the time, and I remember the first time I played there, some of the member lockers had sort of a like a hello my name is type dinner party sticker on there for the name. I think they've gotten rid of all that, but I just stuck with me as a I guess I was about sixteen and had a nice in with Jim Langley through my dad and the coach he played for at cal Pete Nole and just always just I just I was like, really that was an odd one. But anyway, they I think they've they've moved on from that.

00:21:54
Speaker 3: You know something when you brought up the seals that I've never thought of. But there is like something to cypress point that it hits you on so many senses, like visually, but there's also a smell thing. The different parts of the course you get. You know, you have like the sea air when you start, and then the dunes you get that sea air, and then you get back in the forest and it's you know more of like that that for it, like yeah, and then you get out to the coast and you get hit with like you are on the ocean, all the smells that come with that. Yeah, depending on the wind, it could be a lot of different spells.

00:22:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a lot of bird dropping rocks there. And yeah, it's no, it is. It's a full sensory overload. It is. It's just gonna be fun. I mean, I'm sure the guys will enjoy it in the Walker Cup in the practice rounds, but it's going to be an intense course for them, especially if we get a good afternoon sea breeze, just you know, the green speed, the firmness of the fairways because it hasn't rained since April, and uh, probably won't be as much fun when they're in the heart of the match trying to deal with that. And then yeah, smell all that and all that stuff and crowd control will be interesting. So but I'm not too worried. It'll it'll work itself out.

00:23:13
Speaker 2: What's your second thing? That was a you know, a tangent that we went down there.

00:23:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think i'd go over. I'd go back to what I mentioned earlier, the par fives. And again it's a little bit of a bummer that two of them have been switched and they're just even the second hal I don't see the guys having any trouble getting home into with any helping wind at all. But they are a spectacular group of par fives. And it's so such an unorthodox sequence that and it changed a lot right up to the moment. They were breaking ground really for a bunch of different reasons, just finding new spots. They liked things. I'm probably found some rock and things. And you know that you see a little bit of on the second hole, But think about it. I mean, the first three part fives, two, five, and six are all dog leg left and then yet they're just totally different, which you guys covered nicely in the in the film as well. They just play in very different ways and sort of different lines off the tee and and so it's a little bit of a bummer to me that they won't have that decision on the fifth fair way as much because it's such a bizarre hole in a great way. There's nothing like it in the The layup is so strange, you I mean, I've played it a few times and I've hit a good drive and it's like, oh I lay up with a nine iron onto this spot. So you get the good view in for the third. I think the last time I actually played it well enough to try to go for it, I'm like, why did I try? Why do I want to be down at the bottom of this little swale hitting a shot up to the screen when I kind of laid back and had a nice full shot in. But so that's the fifth hole is just but that'll be a part four and six is so counterintuitive where you kind of really want to throw it out to the right when it's firm and get the slingshot thing going. And and two is just a big, beautiful par five. It's just just kind of big in scale, and you feel great you've gotten over the nerves and gotten through the first hole. And and for a right hander, it's just very inviting. And they've done a beautiful job restoring sort of a faux donesy thing in front. It used to be three little formalized bunkers the first time I was there, So anyway, and that's that'd be number two that I just love those part fives. And then ten is just a fun hole. But again they I think in the Stanford event, I've heard the college players hit a nine iron or something into that. So that's that'll be a part five, Part four, excuse me in the matches and again, you know match play, I realize part doesn't matter, but it's more about about putting them in a position where they have to make some of the decisions that the architect hoped they'd have a good player would.

00:25:57
Speaker 3: Have to make. The technology thing is it? I would say, like as one bummer with the golf course, I've been lucky to be out there a few times, and I've played a wide range of equipment, like a very wide range, from hickory clubs to you know, blades and Persimmon to you know, kind of like something that might be my high school set. And I think like one of the recent times I was out there, I played with the original pro V one, the first prov one that had the seam, and I think I played with like kind of like a you know, probably a you know it was it was per Simon blades set with that, and like I couldn't believe how how challenging the golf course was, in particularly the wind, with a golf ball that just like you know, this modern golf ball now just like cuts through the wind. You just don't have to hit shots and control trajectory or spin as much as you used to, even back to the original pro V one, and I was astonished, where like, you know, I'm hitting long iron into one and I played, you know, a couple of weeks ago, and you know, I'm hitting lobwedge into one, you know, And just the drastic difference that that the technology presents in particularly what you hit on the par fives become like just a whole different ballgame. And I think, like, you know, it's those holes. Like to me, like one of the great shots is if you want to try and hit six and two, is like you're hitting from this severe downslope with the ball above your feet on a side hill and you're trying to hit like a high long iron and you're everything. All the trouble's left, and obviously with that lie, you're just terrified of hitting it left and you just bail out right and then you know it's just and that shot like these guys might be able to get it past the hill on the right side onto flat lie, and it's you know, it is it will be. I think like one of the things to look at this week will be an interesting representation of what technology has done to the game. And I think like one of the things, like when you look back on all of your writing in the world of golf, maybe the most prescient thing that you wrote was the book about Technology. You know, what was that almost twenty five thirty years ago and where the game was going.

00:28:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately, and I that is the downside. But like I said, do you I am curious, do you agree that fourteen and seventeen, which are definitely gonna be holes people see a lot of who aren't there, could be more interesting because of the modern distances.

00:28:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, you know.

00:28:45
Speaker 3: I think also like some of the I think with match plays going to be fascinating with like some of the holes, where do these guys push it up really close and then at risk of having a really bad angle into a firm green that runs away right right?

00:29:01
Speaker 2: Like some of that.

00:29:02
Speaker 3: I think the great thing about this is that it's a matchplay event, you know, And I don't understand why they changed par when part doesn't matter at all. I think it's you know, like a fear of a score being you know, approximated under par. But the I think these it'll the conditioning level and the wind. You know, we always talk about open championships and the thing that elements present I think that's the thing that will will kind of win the day at Cyprus is that you have like great topography, you have firm conditions, and you have you'll likely have some wind off the coast and it's you know that is tricky to play golf in.

00:29:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the air is heavier there and all that stuff that that and then you throw in the I mean, I just love to see the dynamics on sixteen, for instance, when if the first person hits it either you know, in the water in front of them or as I've done unfortunately, well fortunately because I got to play there, but it seems like every time I've just pulled it just a little bit left and gone through you know, over the left, the water sneaks in there. It's really kind of cruel and at least to me, and you know, what does that guy do now who didn't have the honor in a singles match or in fours them's what do you do? So that stuff, to me is what is the beauty of match play versus strokeplay? In the Walker Cup, especially there, I think that you could go through multiple holes where that's going to be the case, you know, fifteen, there's going to be a far right pin I'm sure on the little peninsula that's been restored. How aggressive do you get there things like that, because if the wind's coming off the water, you've got to start it right at it or almost on the edge of the cliff. So there's just so many little as that way. But I will be curious in the practice rounds just to see what they're trying to do on on well, really as several holes, but fourteen and seventeen in particular, because it's a big risk on fourteen, but you do get a reward of great visibility into the green if you can just blow it over if yeah, you have the means to blow at three fifteen.

00:31:22
Speaker 3: So for fourteen is one of the hardest holes on the golf course probably, I would say you can make an argument outside of sixteen it's the harsest hole on golf course and it's just super awkward where you're like laying up with a you know, for mortals, you can you lay up because the fairway narrows with a bunch of trees and it gets really pinched into the middle and you lay up with like a hybrid or a three wood depending on the weather. Some people hit drivers still like regular human beings, but with these, with these college kids, there's a they could pop in the right weather conditions, hit it past all the stuff. Because if you once you lay back, it leaves like a mid iron uphill you can't see. And if kids push it, push it up, they just have a mere flip wedge, right.

00:32:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then that's same with seventeen. If you get you get way past the trees and the famous cypress trees in the middle of the fairway that are that are really annoying when you lay up, just getting past those and I think they have a better chance there and I think it's a little less dangerous there than it is on fourteen. So yeah, those those elements of of the the actual matches will be fun. And to see what the what influenced the caddies and the captains and all that have on on the players.

00:32:43
Speaker 3: You know.

00:32:44
Speaker 1: The another great tradition of the Walker Cup the the club caddies take the bags and it's it's I think it's neutral, semi neutral, and how it's determined. So that's and the caddies are a big part of the colorlture there at Cyprus Point too, So it's a it'll be fun to know what what what the players do, and they don't have data to call on, which is wonderful. We don't have to hear about uh, you know what House Sutton hit it? Yeah, no, stroke, House Stutton stroke games on the number fourteen and the eighty one Walker Cup. We don't have to deal with that, although I'm sure Lamania has found a way to, you know, dig up some old Crosby records to craft some some numbers.

00:33:28
Speaker 2: But I actually wonder if the if the analytics would, if there's any analytics people that would say lay up on sixteen.

00:33:37
Speaker 1: Well, if your opponent hits it in the water, isn't I think the ice plant.

00:33:43
Speaker 3: If they hit in the ice plant, you should lay up because the chances of somebody hitting it out of the ice plant, nobody knows how hard they have to hit it.

00:33:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I love But that's the beauty of match play, is it's uh, And that's why, yeah, sixteen is just going to be even though it's not not as dangerous as it was even twenty five years ago in terms of the fear factor of the carry in the afternoon with a good wind, it's still a stout shot. And uh and again there's that that the ocean coming in over on the left. So if there's no in between, you're either you really are for these guys, it's just a pure layup, or you're just going at the green. I doubt anybody. I don't see many these guys laying up. I really don't.

00:34:27
Speaker 3: Know's I think, like what I'm hoping for is we get one day with like a stiff, stiff in off the left breeze where you know, these guys hit like to hit fades and that thing it I've played at that setting.

00:34:43
Speaker 1: You've got that.

00:34:44
Speaker 3: It's a nightmare. It's like a complete nightmare. You're just because the ball, if you have any kind of fate spit on it. The ball just gets just tossed to the right. Yeh short, you know, and if you try, if you over compensate, then you've got that left water, which the left water is way better than short right, way better because you get to drop up by the green like. It's not the worst miss of the world missing left Like that's like one of the things that I think is interesting about the whole.

00:35:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, a really wonky question.

00:35:13
Speaker 2: Here.

00:35:13
Speaker 1: But on media day, did you get a sense of how they're playing the ocean, because there have been times I believe where it's not been. It's just it's not marked as a penalty area hazard. Now I do want to use penalty area. It's not marks as a hazard.

00:35:29
Speaker 3: What I don't know, but I imagine it's just a you re tee because you won't you wouldn't have crossed any ground right right.

00:35:37
Speaker 2: But as you say, if you go through on the left.

00:35:40
Speaker 1: That's why I'm asking is if you blow it through on the left, you should be able to drop it up there.

00:35:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I'm that's a good question.

00:35:48
Speaker 1: I'll give us something to do on Wednesday and Thursday to figure out how they're marking the course and what Ben Kimball's got in mind. And he does a great job with the setup on match play in US Amateur. I loved what he did at Olympic Riviera. He played the eighth hole on the Lady the forward t to the left of multiple days just and even just took the whole horrible alternate fair way out of play. And so I think he'll he'll, uh, he'll have some fun with with trying to bring out some of these elements too. But I do think how the course is marked will be interesting as well, just in that decision on the te.

00:36:28
Speaker 2: What's your third thing?

00:36:30
Speaker 1: I mean, the third thing I think that would be nice that people get to see and appreciate and remember is just how unorthodox this course is. You have your back to back threes, everybody notes, which is true. You have very few long par four as well, unless you change the par on them, which they've done. But you have a lot of drive and pitch par fours or short iron, which they were designed that way even in Mackenzie's day. And then you have all those part five's early There's just nothing. There's nothing in the sequence of the holes that is normal or even remotely textbook. And if you took away a lot of I think the beauty and the journey element and the vibe of the place, somebody just looking at it from an aerial and on paper would go, well, this is just this violates so many norms of balance and all that kind of stuff that we know is what makes it great. In addition to the setting that it is not, it just kind of goes with what is there. Even though they manufactured a whole bunch of stuff to make certain holes work. It is just not in any way normal textbook whatever word you want to call it. Sequence of holes. And of course the ninth doesn't come back to the clubhouse. That's a I think that's a big part by the way of the charm that they didn't have to for they didn't have to design holes around a driving range. You know, there's just a little warm up area there on the right, which I don't think. I'm sure that'll be all tense.

00:38:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder I was wondering where there would be warming up.

00:38:12
Speaker 1: MPCC, as I understand it, it was either pebble or there, and NPCC is closer, so I'm my understanding is that's where they're what they're using for the range. So yeah, I just hope that's something that people remember when, you know, because sometimes you'll hear a lot of talk about routing and people still struggle. Even though we know most of the great courses don't follow a pretty set group of standards, it's amazing still how many people are uncomfortable with unusual sets of holes like this place has. Again, the way the par fives are all early, the back to back threes, a lot of par fours that are that are in the same distance range but play so differently if you just but if you just looked at the card, you you'd kind of wonder.

00:39:05
Speaker 3: Let's talk a little bit about the competition here. The US has won eight of the last ten Walker Cups.

00:39:14
Speaker 2: I think they have a pretty strong team.

00:39:16
Speaker 3: I think obviously if you if you look at it from like a kind of profile standpoint, it's it's a very strong team. That being said, I think this is probably GB and i's best team in recent years just from a you know, you look at some of the players and where they you know, Cameron Adam for example, is you know, someone that you would kind of probably start to expect to see make waves in the.

00:39:44
Speaker 2: In the in the world of golf.

00:39:47
Speaker 3: And then obviously they have you know, some some other great stories including Nile Donegan who who just made that great run at an Olympic club and is a local and and you got, you know how expectations. I'm sure for Luke Polter, uh, you know, Ian Poulter's kid, it should be I think like in terms of their kind of set up this year, Uh, it is a probably the most interesting the competition from a competitive standpoints been in a while.

00:40:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's fair to say. I wouldn't have agreed with that a couple of months ago. But I think the US, I mean, the US team just looked far superior to me, whoever whoever they ended up picking in the final few spots. But but just Jackson Coyven what he's been doing. And but then you know, the US amateur you look at and and uh, it's hard to It's hard to know because Olympic club is tough and it's not everybody's cup of tea, uh, end of the summer. But a few guys kind of blew up there at the amateur who are on the American team that that you know, maybe they they they've just retired. I mean, the schedule is pretty much year round right now for a college that are just all for elite amateur. Uh yeah, and it's it's a lot. Uh so it's possible they just hit a wall. And uh and of course Nile, Yeah, he beat maybe three guys who will be in the Walker Cup, I believe, one of his teammates and and uh to uh two Americans, I believe.

00:41:16
Speaker 2: So you know, to just clarify, like, you know, the US team's great.

00:41:21
Speaker 3: They have one Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm not saying one through six in the in the Wagger, which is a very flawed ranking system, but it's still one through six in the in the Wagger, and then the also the ninth player, So they've got seven of the top ten players in the in the world according to you know, what's you know, the ranking system we have.

00:41:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, I still think they're the they'll they'll win, and they're they're the overwhelming favor But I do feel like it's going to be more competitive than I would have sensed, just from what I will see from Afar or talking to Brentley Romine, or just seeing what guys are doing and seeing what happened at the Amateur which is obviously not a very operable golf course in some ways, especially now that Olympic is not Pola greens. It's bent. But you know, the climate, the heavier air, some of the grasses, the trees, the heavy sea breeze. You know, there are elements of the Olympic experience that should tell you a little something about what some players might do in the Cypress environment. And a few guys had a bad week there, so to me again, it just gave me a little more hope that I just want a close match. I don't really care who wins. I just want to be interesting and I want matches to be close because I want them to get to the sixteenth, seventeenth holes and even the eighteenth hole really And yeah, last time, half the matches got to the last hole at Seminoles so and we got a decent number to the last hole at the old course last time. Maybe not as much as we would have hope, but enough got to the road hole. That was fun. And those matches again were so good. They were so competitive, and that experience was for everybody who was there was otherworldly. You're out in the fairways with them and listening to the conversation. And that'll be the case again at Cyprus, except on I think three holes there you just can't do it because of the architecture of the eighth hole and the sensitivity of the dunes and all that stuff. It just would be a two tough no spectators there on seven, eight and nine, as I understand it. Yeah, so it'd be kind of weird too for them. They'll leave this because one of the things that always has blown my mind about the Walker Cup and when you see players play so well, there's an element that's really unusual for the player and that you have all of a sudden this kind of rush out to to your ball and there's people around you. I mean, everybody still talks about the moment when at LA when when Scheffler and Scott Cameron Champer playing camera champion of four hundred yard drive on the fourteenth hole in the morning and Scotty hit a four iron in there and spellings Mansion. I mean, it was so far off the map and everybody was right on top of him, and so you got to see this moment like what was that? Because he had the whole world to the left. All you had to do is just pull it anywhere left and you're on the court and the other team was already in trouble and suddenly they gave him a hole. And those elements for a player have got to be even you know, because at least you're out on your own in the fair way and you hit that shot, but this one was like you have all the people around going murmuring. So yeah, so they're going to have that, except then they're going to go from you know, they're going to lose radio contact for three holes on seven, eight, and nine. So that's another fun little element to the whole thing.

00:44:51
Speaker 3: I was just last night with a buddy of mine who caddied in the us AM, and he was they got pretty far in the us AM and he was saying, one of the hardest things at Olympic for these kids was the wind because the element that the trees presented where it would feel really calm, but then as soon as it got up above the trees, like the winds there and there was and it would just toss balls certain directions. That was like the challenge at Olympic Club. But he also the other thing he brought up was was galleries and how hard it was that they you know, they had went without a lot of galleries, but then when they got further into the tournament, like Nile now they not didn't face Nile, another another crowd favorite, and all of a sudden, like the galleries are just right on top of the kids crazy and they can just say whatever they want to.

00:45:54
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and they do yeah encouragement. I didn't hear anything bad against Niles opponents on Saturday.

00:46:02
Speaker 3: There but yeah, but he he just kind of he just talked about how how those were probably the two things that were the toughest for for them as they went on.

00:46:11
Speaker 2: Was just the wind.

00:46:13
Speaker 3: And I think you'll you'll see that on some of the holes that Cyprus is that wind element where you just feel like it's dead, calm, and these kids hit it so high that it will you know, it'll present itself in some spots and then and then the crowd, like, I think it's gonna be I don't you know. Obviously Seminole was during COVID, so there's nobody out there thankfully for those guys who are all battling some you know, stomach bugs. You know, I imagine that those food I couldn't could resist the food. The food has got to be like locked in, locked down. After that one, that's gonna be fresh in everybody's mind. But you know, I think the crowd the this to me, this this was like I have never had so many people ask me if I have inns for tickets at an event than this event.

00:47:01
Speaker 2: This seems to be. It will be everybody that has a ticket will be out and at this event, and it'll be probably one of the most packed walker cups they've ever had.

00:47:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, and only what maybe thirty five hundred people a day, but it hopefully will And again they won't experience any of that until Friday, exceed any Saturday. They'll see a little bit in the opening ceremony, but they'll be out playing the golf course essentially by themselves, with a few media people and family or whatever who is allowed to be out there Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, well Friday, depending on when they play. There should be some spectators. I know they tend to play early so they can get ready for the opening ceremony. But I'm sure people will be excited and get out there. But yeah, it's wild to be thrown into that all of a sudden, and it's just not like anything you're used to. So the amateur was good experience for a few people, certainly for Nile, who wasn't face by it, and I think a couple of his I think Preston Stout was face by it just from what I could see on TV. It's it's but he got that experience now, so that's that's the good news for him. And by the way, just quick note, you know what you're saying about Olympic is so true. I've been to a lot of tournaments. I played a college tournament there and it that that wind element and combined with all the side hill lies and stances and audities. It it watching the amateur that's the second amate I've been to there, and it reminded me that actually it will be a tremendous Ryder Cup course. It just won't be as It'll be very nuanced in terms of how the match play dynamics go and the moments and the weird things that happened there that that you know, there won't be any ball splashing in a lake and the crowd losing it, but there will be weird moments in match play and weird shots that you don't normally see players play. So whatever year that is, twenty thirty three or something, anyway, it's not that far off. But they'll have to jigger the routing, I think, and start on a whole like nine. But it's going to be a better match play course than people realize. I love that time of the year is beautiful up there usually too.

00:49:17
Speaker 3: I loved your synopsis of Olympic in the Quad and you know this is a little divergence but I just thought it encapsulated the course so well. Olympic claus Lake Course takes golfers on one of the most unusual, taxing and cruel rides in championship golf. The Tree Line course that's built on sand doesn't appear special from the air, but so much of its ingeniousness as a championship venue depends on the properties tilt toward lake merced. The relentlessness of the uneven stanzas heavy seaside air remaining overhanging trees in subtle green slopes, exasperated by the land bias, has aspired to wear down most of the game's great I just thought that was like the perfect thing is like, that is not you know, that is not a fun place to play golf. But at the end of the round, you're like, well that thing, that thing put me through, me through it, and in a way it's it's it could be rewarding if you if you get through it feeling like you you feel like you hit a lot of golf shots when you get done with a round.

00:50:22
Speaker 2: There.

00:50:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, the dread in every club in the bank cliche, Well, it really is true there, and it does. It wears you out, like that you saw the golf of the day after the thirty six whole day was pretty ragged, and I mentioned to a few people they had had to be tired. Of course, you know, the modern golfer is such a fit athlete. We can never admit that we're tired. No, you're tired. It's a hard it's a hard walk. And and even Mason Howell mentioned that at some point he had a great night's sleep on Saturday. He was he was tired. And I remember I the thirty six all day there I played in the USF tournament. I was so tired at the end of that round. That was such a long day.

00:51:00
Speaker 3: My buddy said he was like the thirty six whole day. He was like, you know this guy that you know I played D one athletics and he was like, I.

00:51:09
Speaker 2: Was beat at the end of that day.

00:51:12
Speaker 3: Yeahs yeah, he said he they were. They were cruising in their first match and he was like, okay, like I'm going to just kind of take it easy because I know I'm going to.

00:51:24
Speaker 2: Need some energy to get through the second match.

00:51:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Cyprus isn't his taxing, but it mentally will will will be uh a fun challenge and the greens are obviously most of the greens. There are some very surprisingly flat greens too there. But Muslim are pretty tough.

00:51:40
Speaker 2: It's not an easy walk.

00:51:41
Speaker 3: And I think, like the the other aspect of this is the the stakes of match play, the mental the you know, match play puts you through like a mental ringer out there. You know, it's everybody says, just play the golf course. Play the same way. It's impossible. You're you're you're paying attention to what's going on with the other and and you're you know, you're doing things that you wouldn't normally do even though you say can't. It's impossible. Like you're talking about we're talking about sixteen. Like if you're if you're the bone, it's in the water, you're probably laying up.

00:52:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, And.

00:52:14
Speaker 3: Uh, I think, like I do think that these these thirty six hold days will war on. You'll see some somewhere at the end of them.

00:52:22
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. And then foursomes in the morning is uh yeah, you're hitting fewer shots, but you have this burden of not wanting to let your partner down and you can never underestimate that, especially when it's it's just not something any of these guys play that much. So yeah, I can't wait. It's gonna be. Like I said, I just wish it was three days. It's just not enough. Curtis Cup has it right.

00:52:44
Speaker 3: Are there a couple of players that you're particularly looking forward to watching it?

00:52:49
Speaker 1: Cyper's well, yeah, I want to see if Jackson Coyven is the second best putter in the world behind Sam Burns whatever that was about yesterday. Uh, we're recording this right after Keegan's press conference and where he said Sam Burns is the best putter in the world. But I've heard Jackson Coyven is an unbelievable putter, so I'm really anxious to see what he does on those greens.

00:53:12
Speaker 2: Great driver, great putter is I figure.

00:53:15
Speaker 1: He's pretty much good at everything. The way he plays the scorzy shoots.

00:53:19
Speaker 3: I think the iron play has his room for improvement from what I've heard, But like in terms of driving, he's like extraordinary driver the golf ball and extraordinary potter.

00:53:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never really watched Tommy Morrison more than a few holes, so I'm kind of anxious to see what he does. The big guy and and.

00:53:41
Speaker 2: I heard he's like a legit six six eight to six ten.

00:53:44
Speaker 1: Yes, he's a very tall man. I have I've talked to him and he's yes, he's a he's a he's a big guy. And it's amazing to see that, you know, it used to be so rare to see a tall person be able to play the game. Well. So curious what he does on the on the with the golf course and and how he plays it. And obviously I, you know, big Homer for the Niles, the Niles Shields. I keep winding to call with. There was a moment in the UH when they were on Peacock the first time they came on with him in a match. I'm sitting in the coffee shop and I got I've got the iPad on and uh John Cook called him Nile Shal mcdonaghan and I just I went, oh no, why can't I have this on my DVRs so I could back that up. And so yeah, even I even Berkowski, the old pro, UH struggled with the Shields a few times as I just did. So, but he he's playing really well right now. And UH again to the environmental element, he he knows. Northern California Golf and Metal Club a little bit of Mackenzie and that kind of stuff. So, uh, I'm anxious to see what what he does and and and how many of the Mill Valley uh and Mental Club folks get on the problem hard things.

00:55:03
Speaker 2: The tickets.

00:55:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the hard part. I should probably shouldn't share this, but it was just a funny thing to say. He didn't mean anything by it. But Nathan's at the Optic Club. We were standing by the fifteenth grade. I went up said high. He was eating a burger and you know, they have a really good burger dog there. I don't know if you heard, Diane, you.

00:55:21
Speaker 2: Know what I was pretty happy about. Did you see Stu just just just smoke it?

00:55:27
Speaker 1: Yeah? What did he compare it to some French restaurants?

00:55:30
Speaker 3: No?

00:55:30
Speaker 2: Something, No, no, No, compared it.

00:55:33
Speaker 3: To the one of the best burgers in the world that's from Chicago. But he he's the only person that compared it. You know, it's a burger, yeah, but it's just a hot dog shape.

00:55:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:55:46
Speaker 3: I love I love burger dogs because I think the hot dog bun is a better It's a better delivery method for condiments.

00:55:55
Speaker 1: Especially if you're playing golf and walking. Yeah, which I got. I would get them in the when we played the USF Tournament, I would I could wait to get off the tenth green. I went and got one, and I can attest when you're walking and you're trying to juggle all this stuff, that that shape, that delivery method is.

00:56:12
Speaker 2: Yes, this is I've like, you know, it's so funny.

00:56:16
Speaker 3: I've I've talked about this for years because I obviously had gotten burger dogs. And then I go back to the Midwest and my wife thought I was crazy. We'd have hot dog buns but no hamburger buns, and I'd make a burger dog.

00:56:26
Speaker 2: She's like, what are you doing? You know, like, well, we got a hot dog bund, I'm gonna make a burger dog and some of our friends.

00:56:33
Speaker 3: Because you can load the under the bottom of the run with your with your toppings, it doesn't score it out.

00:56:40
Speaker 2: It's a better way to eat a burger it is.

00:56:44
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:56:45
Speaker 3: But what I liked about stew was he did not say this is like I think everybody was like, this is they viewed in the lens of a hot dog. And all these kids gave it, you know, they asked her to do one through ten. They all gave it like nines. Yeah, and Stu comes on, he's like, I think it's a six. Ye compares it compares it to like the greatest burgers in the world.

00:57:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's your there's your USA Elder Statesman uses why did we get on this tangent PJ. Well, we were talking about something, because why you get on burger dogs?

00:57:20
Speaker 2: I don't even know.

00:57:21
Speaker 3: But that's why. That's why having the bid ams important to this competition. You need somebody that can provide some guidance and some some it has some life experience, you know.

00:57:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and he can regale them with the food poisoning stories for last time as well. Some imagery has been painted of some of the car rides from UH that that involved UH sharing there and like, I can't, I can't speak. I I did it at Augusta this year. It's food poisoning is cruel. But yeah, I think they'll have a food taster this time, or they'll just have a lot of very well prepared food not by breakers. But yeah, I can't remember why we were on that.

00:58:02
Speaker 2: For Cyprus point we were talking about Nile.

00:58:06
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, yeah, well anyway, he.

00:58:09
Speaker 2: Nathan Swift Smith story oh yeah.

00:58:11
Speaker 1: So we were fifteen and the crowd is just huge, and he's finishing his burger dog and he goes, you know, I shouldn't say this. I went, oh, come on, well, I'm really glad the ticket sales. This is the first time I've been glad the ticket sales are limited. I wouldn't I wouldn't want our guys have to deal with this, this this this crowd. He didn't mean it was a meeting. Just the energy was you could see Nile was getting something from the crowd energy and that the opponents were getting something as well that wasn't so hot. And so I laughed at that.

00:58:43
Speaker 2: It just.

00:58:45
Speaker 1: Because he definitely, like everybody, would love as many people to be there as possible, and but it's just it's just tough with the venues. So at least we do have three hours in the morning on Peacock and three in the evening on golf channels. They're they're they're giving it six a day. That's something. But I don't know. I think the whole opening ceremonies should be televised. I think they should be uh, they should be bumping that to four hours. But you know, PJ, what's the big Champion Store event that week. I looked on my list and.

00:59:17
Speaker 2: I don't think there's a tour event.

00:59:19
Speaker 1: No, there's a Champions though.

00:59:21
Speaker 2: I think it's that's like I guess like that's sometimes what I.

00:59:26
Speaker 1: I just don't a really bad title too. Yeah, go ahead.

00:59:29
Speaker 3: Like what I don't understand about the Golf Channel is like the Golf Channel is effectively should be like if you're really into golf, you want to have it on all the time. Yeah, And this would be like the perfect example of an event that would appeal to people that are very into golf, Like that should be like the core tenant of the channel is like how do we appeal make stuff like regular programming that just appeals to people that love golf so much?

00:59:58
Speaker 2: Right, you know.

01:00:00
Speaker 3: And it's like it's interesting with what's going on in golf, Like I'm curious, like with how we were seeing these celebrities, just like you know, there's probably a non zero chance that like Steph Curry is on the grounds there, there's probably you know, will lebron be tweeting about the Walker Cup? Do you think somebody can get in his ear about the Walker Cup? Because he's shown a lot of interest in the PGA Tours golf schedule, you know, like, can we get Lebron interested in the Walker Cup?

01:00:28
Speaker 1: Would be man, that may just be that TGL ownership stake that you know is Fenway. Yeah, yeah, I mean he's yeah. So what is that the common frogs or whatever they are? Yeah, but yeah, it's that's what Golf Channel used to be, where you just golf people just automatically turned it on. And now you just don't have that accept in pro shops and I mean just look at you like they play. Uh, I mean, how is it the Why are we not watching some old highlight films of old Walker Cups that the USGA has done and the US Open for two weeks before the US Open? Why is it just not NonStop highlight films or at least the ones related to a place like Oakmont when you're going to Oakmont and things like that. There's just no they just don't care anymore. The care is gone. And yet that's what built the channel though, were those weird reruns and things that people just it's just nice to have on in the background instead of the news or something. And so but yeah, they could show well, Fox to the twenty seventeen one, but they did twenty twenty one. Why aren't you showing that kind of thing? It's it's it's frustrating. It's where the USGA. You would love to see them be a little bit tougher with their partner or asking those questions, and they may be asking that question for all we know.

01:01:51
Speaker 3: Any last parting thoughts, things that you're you're particularly keen for next week.

01:01:59
Speaker 1: I think we've covered it. Just great basically, just great match play. Good weather, some wind would be wonderful, and hopefully all the the players are in good enough form and are close enough and and I think it'll just be uh, it'll be amazing viewing. And hopefully we're able to those of us who are lucky to be there do some stuff that conveys some of the what you don't get on television. But I think it'll be commercial free Rolex sponsor stuff, so they'll they'll they'll have I think those three hours when they're on each session will be fantastic, you know. That's that's the great news. They won't be filling it with too many ads. But yeah, and just just a thrill to go to this place and it's it meant a lot to me to get to do a book on it and get to see it's it's how it's been restored to his his and Robert Hunter's vision is really is really neat and there's just nothing like it in the world.

01:03:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, they must have if you get a chance to go is uh you know, I tell everybody, Uh, get get Jeff's book when you're in the pro shop there it is like a keepsake and something that's beautiful to flip through every every couple of months or you know, it's it's an amazing book. You will be covering it with your quadrilateral A speaking of must must subscribe if you're true true golf, not the quadrilateral.

01:03:29
Speaker 2: What is it? Is it still fifty bucks or did inflation get it? Uh?

01:03:33
Speaker 1: Oh no, that was wild. That was the first year price, So it's sixty four.

01:03:37
Speaker 2: It just hits. It hits my credit card. I don't know what it is anymore.

01:03:41
Speaker 3: The subscription you've got got me in the subscription you know thing where you're your.

01:03:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, they give you a warning at substack, which I like, and a lot of people appreciate that as well. So it doesn't feel quite as slimy. But Yeah, it's sixty four a year, seven a month or eight a month, I can't remember anyway, and it it's been Yeah, it's been really fun. I've already done some cypress things. Yeah, I get to do stuff that, you know. I'm working on a piece right now. You saw I did one on eighteen one on sixteen, and I'm doing one now about could have any could anyone have designed a great course at Cyprus? And so I'm kind of it's a sort of a workaround to tell a little bit of the story of how it came together and some of the last minute tweaks and they argued about where to put the seventeen mile drive because which you covered in the film.

01:04:33
Speaker 3: You know, it's clear you covered it in the film. Yeah, well just we just used your your thoughts on it.

01:04:40
Speaker 1: Well, stuff like that, and it's just fun to hear. Yeah, you know me, I love to equate things to something else, you know, usually film, film is usually the best example. So I'm also thinking about a little piece on Yeah, all you hear about is Mackenzie, But there are all these other people who were so key to making the thing happen, and they have great and amazing little story some of them you just go, whoa, there was some wild characters involved in this, and you also forget how much how remote this part of the world was to the rest of the country in nineteen twenty eight. So things like that that are just fun to do that I could never do. It a magazine to explore, and then I've got some images and just stuff to kind of give you things to look for when the thing comes on television or if you're lucky enough to be there.

01:05:30
Speaker 3: So sign up for the Quadrilateral Substack. Great substack, and Jeff does an awesome job. I just don't say this lightly. There are very few must reads in my life, but it is one that every time it hits the inbox I open up and peruse. So well, thanks, thanks Jeff for coming on, and thank you for hanging.

01:05:49
Speaker 2: Out next week.

01:05:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait.

01:06:02
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.

01:06:07
Speaker 2: It's been a fun year.

01:06:08
Speaker 3: The Walker Cup is going to be an awesome start to September of team matchplay. We'll have the obviously the Ryder Cup in a couple of weeks as well. Can't wait for this month of golf. It should be really sensational. Thanks to PJ Clark for putting this together.

01:06:24
Speaker 2: And yeah, just be on the lookout.

01:06:25
Speaker 3: We'll see if we can get this interview done, but hopefully we'll have another

01:06:29
Speaker 2: Podcast up for you this week on Cyprus Point