Superintendent Series: Tony Nysse on Mountain Lake and Friar’s Head

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Fried Egg Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over at Toro Golfers get custom fit clubs for longer, straighter shots. Now, using the adjustable technology on Toro's new greens Master one thousand series walk green mower, superintendents can dial in operator performance for precise, consistent cuts. The greens Master's telescoping handle has five different positions, so the operator's posture will be as perfect as a tour pros whether he's tall and skinny or short and husky, and the handle's rubber mounts have just enough cushion to prevent any hand movements from influencing the cut. Sounds like Toro's solve the mower yips. Maybe they can fix the putting gips next. Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your local tourer distributor to schedule a demo. Today, we are back with another edition of our Superintendent series. Today, I am joined by Mountain Lakes Director of Grounds, Tony Nice. Tony is a longtime superintendent ton of experience working at a lot of great clubs in the Southeast, such as Long Cove, Pine Tree, Most recently Old Marsh and now he just accepted the and he just got the job up at Mountain Lake this year. So Tony joined me. He's a big architecture nut, was actually involved with Friars Heads construction crew as a college intern, and so we talked all across the board about you know, everything from architecture to maintenance. So, without further ado, here's Tony Nice. I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset when I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

00:01:44
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a fried egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg Frida egg Frida egg egg Frida egg bride egg.

00:01:51
Speaker 1: Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf course. And that they went last year for the first time on that golf trip and they're going back this year and they like love it. They think it's like the best golf I think it's like one of the best affordable golf trips you could.

00:02:29
Speaker 2: It's awesome and the there so. So my my last day in Michigan, my I watched my brother play a high school basketball game at my my high school that I went to, and my dad said, hey, I need you to meet somebody before you leave. He's got he's thinking about building a golf course and just want some thoughts on two architects. So I'm like, all right, so that's that's right up my alley. Walking across the floor, and a gentleman says, hey, you know, my name is so and so, and I'm thinking about building a golf course. He says, I'm looking at uh, I'm looking at Jerry Matthews and I'm looking at Mike Degrees and I'm like, oh, man, okay. I said, you know, Jerry's kind of generic. I said, there's a lot of Jerry's in Michigan. I said, you're gonna get a safe design. You're gonna get something that is going to feel a certain certain level of people and probably going to get something that you know, not going to cause too much ripples. I says, But Mike, Mike's gonna do something really cool. That's just who he is. He's going to shape bunkers and greens. And I says, He's just going to do something really cool that is is probably gonna, you know, garner attention that you want, especially at a public golf course, and you know, something really unique. And I gave him some examples of Springs and Pilgrims are on and stuff, and not say I had anything to do with it, but he ended up hiring Mike and man, I think the mines was top five best new affordable when it opened in six or something like that. And long story short, my dad ends Chris Chumaker, who helped develop Pilgrims run ends up, came over from Diamond Springs and became the superintendent at the mines. And then my dad went to work at the mines and still works at there thirty thirty five hours a week. And you know the mines actually when I was in elementary school and so like class trips onto Minds and walk and learn about the gypsum deposits that were put in there. So it's kind of a cool, little full circle thing that over the forty years, almost forty years I've been on this earth to kind of see come to fruition. Pretty cool.

00:04:44
Speaker 1: The mines is incredible spot. It's an awesome spot. And I mean it's so it's five minutes from Dimetown, Grand Rapids.

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Speaker 2: It is, and you would never and it doesn't feel like Grand Rapids. You don't hear the Highway really other than when a little by number six I think it is. And you know, it's just they hit a home run there. They're they're always sold out, they got great clientele. It's a good architectural design for what forty to fifty bucks and if you want to do that whole devisee trip, like you're just explaining that you can do it on a weekend and probably for about what two hundred bucks or something two hundred and fifty bucks. Played three really good golf courses.

00:05:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. From a maintenance standpoint, I love and I can't. I've probably talked about it one hundred times on this podcast. But Diamond Springs to me from with just the single mow, you know, big gang mowers out there and right into the greens and then you know the single row irrigation is like that is what public affordable golf should be. It's just you know, you could tell that they can maintain that thing on a tight budget, and it's you know, the name I is some of the best Native I've ever played out of sure.

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Speaker 2: And they're there the cool thing there is there They've never tried to be when they're not at Diamond Springs, I had I had a chance. I played with Greg Johnson who used to write for the Grand Rapids Press on opening day there. And uh I remember during the growing that Chris Shoemaker, who I mentioned earlier, he was asking around for park masters and nobody could figure it out. You know, this was right at the time when all these lightweight Baroy Moores were coming out and and he, you know, he's going around and piecing one park master together with another park master to make, you know, to mow all these areas all at one height. And he was he was, you know, the only one at the time that was was going that direction. And you know, all the t's are mode at one height. The rough is is what you know, it's kind of like a gusta that way. There's just all one cut through and uh, I don't know what they mowed now, but I would much different different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the that those back the last five holes are just incredible out there. I mean really the first first six, the first five are incredible because they got the Great Green Complex and I mean that's just an amazing golf course. How so you're talking about, you know, giving architect advice. You were in high school or were you in college.

00:07:21
Speaker 2: At that point I was I was twenty one, getting ready to leave for an assistance job at Long Cove, and I had spent I was one of the first GCA guys actually way back in the day. And so I remember I was in my dorm room at Michigan State and I had an internship already lined up with Martin Mashaw at Shinakon and I get this call from a five to six to one number, and I'm like, you know, i'll cell phones back in the day. I'm like, do I want to answer this? It's going to take up my minutes and my roaming.

00:07:59
Speaker 1: All that stuff was one of the Motorola Star Tech Runner.

00:08:05
Speaker 2: It was. And I'm just like, oh, now I'm a college kid. And and and I my first semester of college, I had a girlfriend at the time, and and uh, you know, we we were in love. And so we talked on the phone. And I had like a three hundred dollars cell phone bill that my parents just breaked me over the calls on. So it was shortly after that, so it was really answer a phone call. And and Kenny Batts and he got my number through golf club at Lists and says, hey, I'm I'm building a golf course and I'm looking for interns, and I think, you know, we have an opportunity here to show you, you know, some of the things that that you talk about on golf club batlets that you want to see. And I had mentioned that I already had an an an internship lined up and and uh, but it intrigued me enough because I was I was into that. I Uh, I used to draw golf holes on my church bulletins growing up in my bunker. My bunkering at the time was much more like Riesst. Jones when I look back on it.

00:09:08
Speaker 1: But uh, if I could find my early designs, they were they were extraordinarily penal. Uh, you know, like when I was a kid out just these ridiculous holes with water everywhere.

00:09:24
Speaker 2: And you know, it's funny. I'm still kind of bitter because I remember after my any I get an opportunity to go to to Friar said, I call it Martin schad And who was the superintendent at the time at Shinnacock, and tell him about it, and he says, oh, that's going to be a really good one.

00:09:42
Speaker 1: And you were I used to work there.

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Speaker 2: I was I was supposed to do a you know, a top ten golf course maintenance wise, you know, maintain grass, learn about fertility and cultural practices, and I just kind of felt that that's always going to be there, and this is a once in a lifetime too. Ants to build a golf coursing. I can always go back in the turf because that's what I'm studying to do. And my professor at Michigan State kind of fought me on it because he had never played shinnecock so he uh, he.

00:10:14
Speaker 3: Wanted wanted an opportunity to go out there and play golf during the internship.

00:10:19
Speaker 1: But a selfish guy, yeah.

00:10:21
Speaker 3: I'm like, come on, And I stuck my heels in a little bit as much as I could as a as a twenty year old, a nineteen twenty year old, and spent spent two summers out at at Friar's Head and I worked with Chris Hunt, who went on in the the architectural field for for quite a while.

00:10:41
Speaker 2: I did a bunch of work with Tom Doak, and so I've never seen Friars Heading in person really and in an open position. I left about three or four weeks before it actually opened, so we did. We did a lot of bunker work there. We did a lot of greens tie ins, you know, the sixteenth Green. Chris and I spent about two weeks on you know, it's three thousand square feet thirty two hundred square feet and Bill Coor wanted you know, he wanted eight eight pinning locations on there, and we got it pretty close to where he wanted it. And we took about a three inch rain in an hour and it washed it all out down to the left into that swale and everything. And so I spent a lot of time just doing that detail stuff work I work. We worked a lot with Jeff working on bunker work there, and that the chunking, you know a lot of the chunks for Friars Heads bunkers at the time came from that big field to the to the left, to the to the west of the hole there and just really going through it. I remember the first he gave me a paint gun, and the first couple of bunkers I painted for cutting in were the right Faraoy bunkers on thirteen. And he scratched him out and he said, we're not doing We're not doing Reeche Jones stuff. I remember like it was yesterday, and I just kind of laughed, and but it was a credible experience. I remember we uh Bill Bill core comment and that that that was going to be a property that would always need some tweaking because it moves, you know, the dunes when you get up to fourteen fifteen sixteen, move with the wind every year, and how the golf course would always need some subtle adjustments, and you know, nature would really be you know, dictating that that golf course and it you know, the pictures I've seen now don't look anything like when I left it almost twenty years ago. Now, and it look it's gorgeous now. All the the tea's were originally squared off teas and now they're all tie ins too. The shortcuts around the greens and real free flowing now and it's it's aged very very well. Looks fantastic. One day I'll get back up there and see the place.

00:12:59
Speaker 1: That's something that I I think crazy about the architecture world is how how many guys that work on these projects never see the finished or the mature product.

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Speaker 2: They don't. They don't, And you know you have guys like like you know, Tom dope still goes around and visits a lot of his places, and you know, you hear you know, stories of some of the architects now they go back to visit because they're brought back into to change something or or it's been fifteen years and they want to make some adjustments and stuff. And it goes to show how busy some of those guys are that they just can't do that free, free for all traveling where you know, Brian, Brian just traveled the Midwest. Here, I think Tom just traveled the Midwest. You know, all these golf courses. He's kind of unheard of because they they just don't have the ability to do a lot of that stuff because they're so busy.

00:13:52
Speaker 1: In terms of that experience as a you know, going and doing the construction crew stuff. As an in turn, what do you how do you think that experience helped you down the road versus doing the standard internship.

00:14:08
Speaker 2: I think I think that it gave me a different appreciation for architecture. I kind of fell into architecture in my enjoyment for it, not necessarily intentionally. I used to collect a lot of scorecards and just kind of observed the differences in golf courses, and I thought, I really want to go in the architectural field for for a while and travel and build and all that kind of stuff. And I think, you know, I've I've been afforded some opportunities to work on some some golf courses with with architectural merit one way or another. And and I think it's a I've been more selective and where I've had the opportunity to work because of it. I've always wanted to work at a golf course that, you know, is it's not just greatly you know, really well maintained, but that just has some sort of architectural history or merit or maybe it was cutting edge at the time, you know, being at Pine Tree, that's many consider that to be Wilson's greatest golf course. And and Pine Tree is just pure golf. And you stand on you stand on the sixth hole there, and you can see seven holes on the front side, and it's a lot of a lot of golf courses aren't built that way anymore. And it's just a you know, Long Cove is just so far different than Harbor Town, even though they were three miles up the road. And and and that Pete built it right after TPC, and you couldn't have two more different golf courses built by the same architect in the same in the same window. Just some really cool stuff that I I picked up along the way, just kind of understanding and liking and enjoying architecture, being a little more selective, I guess, or are certainly enjoying, you know, trying to change you know, fairway mowing lines and tie ins and certain things like that, because I think I had a good eye for that kind of stuff.

00:16:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you were a kid, you obviously with your dad in the industry, I imagine that played a big role in you getting out and being on a golf course all the time. Was there a moment where you where you caught the architecture bug or was it just the thing that you know, you like to draw golf holes as a kid and it grew from there.

00:16:26
Speaker 2: Well, I was always I was always interested. Courting to my parents. They they my dad the golf course. My dad was that they built nine holes extra when they put some condos on the golf course. And my mom tells me as a kid that she used to just take me to the golf course and we would sit in the car and watch the bulldozers and the dump trucks and the excavators just go. And still this day, if there's a there's construction on the highway, I got it. I'm rubber necking because I want to see if it is that three thirty, is that three oh seven? Is that a D six. It just kind of hit me. The fact that I could enjoy seeing construction and be on a golf course at the same time was just an epiphany to me. Like me, it was awesome and I certainly couldn't. I remember the first time I got on a bulldozer and trying to figure out, how do you operate this? There's no steering wheel here? How do you how do you possibly operate this thing? So I just kind of enjoyed construction and in machinery, and uh, it just kind of led into architecture and having an enjoyment of kind of putting the two together.

00:17:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense. I think like just being around the game as a kid, it's half the battle because you at least a rapid development of the golf brain, you know, so with you you get into the industry. Your first job was at Wankov correct.

00:17:53
Speaker 2: Yeah. My first job out of school other than just kind of wrapping up the assistant job, I was an assistant at a of course up the street that my dad worked at, just a nice little country club for about six months before the position at Lonco opened up. My my other college roommate, I had two college roommates. I'm sorry, I had three college roommates. One was Kyle Haglendo sand Hills and another one his name was Brian Brace, and I don't believe he's in the business anymore, but he was from Buford, South Carolina. So I went on spring break with him once to play golf down there, and we went to Hilton Head and Savannah, Charleston, and I remember crossing the seeing the front entrance of Lonkov and thinking that's I just I want to work there someday. And I remember when the job came available, and I enjoyed my time in the low Country. And so I spent about four years at Long Cove from three to seven, and a new superintendent, Ashley Davis, who's still there, was I was his higher I was a damn Yankee compared to him. I was uptight. I was not from South Carolina, so I was a little more not as laid back as maybe Ashley liked to be, but developed a really good internship program there, and basically you do an internship there. He just keeps inviting guys back to work for him. Has been a long lineage of good assistants that have come through there that have moved on to good superintendent jobs throughout the Southeast and even into Texas a little bit. And guys that have been successful and work their way up to become cgcs's and volunteer on the board of Georgia and South Carolina for the Carolinas chapters and stuff like that. And Ashley has done a really good job there for man coming up on twenty years now.

00:19:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, so log Cove, you also worked at another Die course, old Bars. I was here your latest position before you took the job at Mountain Lake. Could trast I think this is you know, and you hit on it a little bit with the with the stadium course and and Harbortown. How unique and different each of those properties were for dies. You know in Die's portfolio.

00:20:17
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, yeah, I you know, in third fourth grade when I started collecting scorecards, I remember Links magazine had just come out, and they were, you know, giving out free magazines to everyone to help build up their image and and get their the word out. And I remember seeing the sixth hole and in an advertisement from from Old Marsh and I wrote them and they sent a scorecard and a video and a brochure and all that stuff. And it always had an idea. Always wanted to see Old Marsh and I actually I interviewed there the season before for Long Cove and I turned it down as an assistant because they still had bent grass there and oh my gosh, I did g two bent grass, which in hindsight was probably only fun for about three months out of the year and it was just had to be a slog after that. So blazing hot and in a marsh where water levels are high and you know, in the summertime stagnant humidity, and so I always had it on my radar. And drastically different golf course much Old Marsh was much more in line with you know, TPCU than Long Cove, was much more like Harbortown than Long Cove was you know, smaller greens, smaller targets, a lot more you know, water that is is in play as opposed to kind of parallel to play, and so I I when that position came open, I was I had been at Pine Tree for almost six years at that time and just looking for a new challenge. They were getting ready to a renovation and they offered me the position, and pretty much my first week there, they said, hey, we're renovating in eleven months. We don't have one contract signed. And you know they were working with Chris Lutski, who Chris a die protege. That was Chris's first job back in eighty six eighty seven. So Chris Chris did the a lot of the shaping. We had the whole property gps by scott Pool down to the tenth of an inch. The goal of that project was to not change the golf course, but because the county changed the water levels in the property, it caused half inch rain drains would fill up with water, bunkers would have water in them, so the property didn't drain like Peter Ridge only designed it. So we brought We ended up bringing in thirty seven hundred dump trucks load worth of fill to essentially raise the whole property out of the marsh line a minimum of I think it was two and a half feet so that all the drain lines were out of the waterways, and that unless the county decided to change the water levels again, the golf course now it wouldn't play fast and firm all the time. There wouldn't be standing water in fairways and standing water and waste bunkers and stuff like that.

00:23:32
Speaker 1: And so.

00:23:34
Speaker 2: If you played Old Marsh prior to twenty fifteen and then played it after twenty sixteen, you'd hardly know the golf course was Redone that.

00:23:46
Speaker 1: Will talk about a crazy project.

00:23:49
Speaker 2: Yes it was. You know, they talked about putting drainage in with a massive like thirty different pumps to pump water around the property, and it was just kind of agreed that even if the water levels were high and all these pumps worked, you're still years moving water from one spot to the next. And you know, the Old Marsh was designed for you know, I remember Pete was on the sixth fare as well the last time he was there, and he saw how many people were playing the golf course and just couldn't believe how much golf was out there. You know, it was designed for sixty seventy rounds a day, and I was doing twice. That so the golf course, the usage of the golf course changed in the twenty five years thirty years between building and the renovation. That you know, having two or three days being walking only in the middle of the heart of your season because he didn't have cart pass and water levels were high, just it just wasn't an option anymore. So, I mean, the only we changed a little bit of the sixth green, We changed the ninth green a little bit, and we added a pin on sixteen. That was it.

00:24:57
Speaker 1: The six hole is the blind one, right, The fifth hole is the blind one. Fifth. That's I remember that I played that, of course over ten years ago. Now, I just remember that hole. That is a neat hole, very kind, you.

00:25:11
Speaker 2: Know, it's it's like it's it's similar to the fifth at Long Cove, and it was like the old twelfth at TPC. It was just kind of an era that Pete was in, you know that. I think I think PGA West has one too. I could be wrong on that, but there was three or four the original Ford plantation that he built in eighty eight. The fifth hole, there was a blind part four as well. Short and there was talk during the renovation about putting a t on there and and and back farther kind of by the fourth green. And I remember Pete just saying, that's not that wasn't the intention of the hole. It was supposed to be blind. You're supposed to hit a seven eight nine iron into it. And you know, the closer you hit to the right along the water away, the better opportunity you have to see the green. And it's still you know, when I left, it was still controversy that the ongoing joke was if we ever ran out of fill on the golf course, we just dig up the big mound there on five and fill fill a fairway in with it and raise the faraway up.

00:26:17
Speaker 1: Uh what recreating? So talk us through a little bit like the process of you know, you laser it and then how do you guys re build a golf course to exactly speck.

00:26:33
Speaker 2: So scott Pool for those that don't know scott Pool. Scott Scott has actually won some some some awards for his GPS technology. He typically uh you know, he worked with wing Foot doing all their greens here in the last couple of years of shooting them to the grades and then they rebuilt the greens and put all the grades back. He does a lot of stuff with Augusta making sure all those grades go exactly back to where they were original original before the reconstruction. So Scott was actually on the crew at Old Marsh originally as well, back in eighty six eighty seven, so it's kind of a labor of love for him to come back. And so he sets up his beacons and he shot. He started on the first hole and shot the whole thing. I think everything was in twenty yard increments. Twenty yard twenty no, yeah, twenty five yard increments. The greens were a little bit tighter. It took him about four weeks to shoot the whole golf course and so all that data that he saved went into a file that was downloaded on the track on the bulldozers. That so the property level, the waterways were sixteen feet six inches is where the water was, and we had it in our heads at the minimum I think was seventeen and a half feet is what the minimum would be outside when the pumps would kick on in the property, and so there would be there was a beacon up by the ninth green up on a hill there, and all that information would go into the bulldozers and the blade on the dozer would move. You just had to sit in it. So we actually had an assistant that would sit in the thing two three four hours a day, and just as dump trucks would come in just pushing piles out, knowing they weren't making cuts or anything like that, but the blade would just move along with the level of the GPS. And seriously to the almost to the tee, all the little faraway contours were put back. So there's there's eight hundred drains in the faraways at Old Marsh, and every drain got a riser put on it and got cut off and the you know, all the material got worked back to the drains. So the drains lines were all cleaned out. And but the faaraway cond entering and the subtleness and the low profile of Old Marsh to kind of fit, you know, the surrounds was all put back. Tea if a fairway raised up a foot, of tea got raised up a foot. If a fairway was raised up a foot, the green was raised up the foot, The bunker floors were raised up afoot, all the mounding was raised the foot. I mean, it was it it it is almost identical to what was original. It just sits basically somewhere between two and three feet higher than what it did in eighty six eighty seven.

00:29:34
Speaker 1: With with the courses down there, obviously there's not a ton of topographical movement that helps move water, you know, whether it be a pine tree or Old Marsh, and you know, obviously marsh Old Marsh as the name would suggest, as sitting on the marsh. How you know, is drainage kind of like an ongoing challenge? Is a superintendent day to day? Yeah, you know.

00:30:02
Speaker 2: It's it's interesting because when when we first open up Old Marsh the second time, so after the renovation, you know, there there's the misconception of well, we're gonna play fast and firm all the time even if it rains, well, you're still draining into a marsh, and if that marsh is high, the water is only going to go so far. And we always the i'mgoing joke was it's it's not called Old Hills Golf Club, it's Old Marsh. We're down. We're down in the mars, whether we like it or not. You know, being being here at Mountain Lake, I can count on one hand how many drains we have in fairway and everything perches and drains. We drain infinitely better than what we did uh when I was at Old Marsh, but Old Old Marsh and pine treers. So you're always just trying to move water because you know, generally South Florida is relatively flat, and you know, if the marshes are high, the golf course is going to play softer. And if the marshes are low, the water's got a place to go and you can drain quicker. But I don't know with fast and firm other than certain times, certain specific times a year, the consistency of fast and firm for twelve months will ever be good in South Florida if you will, which is good and bad. I think a lot of the people that play in South Florida, the members and people that come down for the seasonal stuff, get the best best of the crop if you will. But if you're not, if you're not putting drainage in in South Florida in the summertime, you probably fall in behind. It's just it is what it is.

00:31:32
Speaker 1: Now for a quick word from our sponsor, Toro, those big agricultural tractors you see working on golf courses with their clutch and complicated lever pulling sequences. In a turf maintenance application, They're like stepping onto the first t not knowing which swing you have that day. Toro's new Outcross nine Thy sixty can do everything those clunky tractors can, but with tons less stress on the operator and on the turf. With the automotive controls and programmable attachment parameters, even rookies on the crew can be trusted with air raiding, top dressing, mowing grass, loading sand, and removing snow from around the clubhouse of the winter. The Toro Outcross nine Thy sixties like having all of your best golf shots saved ready for use each and every round. Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your local Toro distributor to schedule a demo. Now back to Tony Nice. So, yeah, that's going to be one of my questions. Is it working at clubs that are predominantly winter clubs? What does summer look like for you? Like right now at a mountain lake.

00:32:36
Speaker 2: So, we are just started our fourth greens erification since I've been here. We pretty much we're closing nine holes every two weeks and verifying everything just access that if you will, and we're I mean, it's two to eight rounds a day right now, so having nine holes open isn't that big of a deal. But some of it it's just about understanding, you know. I think there's gonna be a time where some of the South Florida golf courses have to you know, members are staying down there, and with this whole COVID thing, I think everybody seem to see their golf season last a little bit longer, and it'll be interesting to see if it starts a little bit earlier. And so you know, when when the deadline in South Florida was always November one, you got to be ready and you got to have all the pine shrub beds cleaned up in your greens heights where they got to be. And you know, sometimes November is not a not the easiest of months because it's still mid to high eighties sometimes the first couple of weeks of November, and you know, you get members that come down that have been playing on the bent POAs of the North that that don't even grow during the day, and they're running thirteen at four o'clock in the afternoon and they come down to South Florida, and it's like greens are slow, they're they're twelve, they're just but they're growing during the day, you know. But it's interesting justin I was at between Pine Tree and Old Marsh eleven years and just seeing how the tolerance to play when it's hot is was was Okay, they play in the morning, but they still you know a lot of people members, whether they play year round or whether they are seasonal, they still want it to be presented well. And so how you juggle that verification program to to ensure the longevity of a golf course is becoming an interesting topic. You know, the heel time of a big core verification is probably three weeks and you do that once or twice or you know, two and a half times if you will, and in a summertime and it eats up, you know, three to four months of the summer pretty quickly. And there's a couple of different things that a lot of clubs are diving into. The dry Jeck process is fa fantastic to really pack that profile full of sand and uh, but but it doesn't remove organic and we you know, we grow grass and grow organic material ten to twelve months out of the year depending on where you are in Florida, and uh, you know, you don't want to turn customers away. You don't want to, you know, tell your membership that we just verified last week and the greens are bumpy, they're slow, and you know a lot of the members that come down don't see all that stuff that that happens in the northeast. You know, when they come down in mid October and everyone in the Northeast starts verifying, they don't they don't see that portion of it. So it's it's a it's something. I think they got to understand what what the goal is and when you want to be your your best condition and even though you grow grass twelve months out of the year, it doesn't it's it's really not. It's just not feasible to be conditioned twelve months out of the year. Ten months out of the are You've got to have that downtime to poke some holes and rip up the bermuda grass. I mean a lot of guys, you see they take that bermuda grass down the dirt, literally down to dirt. It's impressive.

00:36:13
Speaker 1: With the big ear of aerification, the big core what you touched on with the dry jack, you're not getting to the organic matter or the thatch. And and and that I've recently talked to some people and just the you know, the idea of you could have a great stretch of weather, but if your course has all that organic matter, that thatch, it's still not going to play firm and fast like the course that doesn't have that thatch.

00:36:42
Speaker 2: Right correct, yep.

00:36:44
Speaker 1: So you're you're doing a big project that's going to ensure when you're at your best, your best is better than what it would be without that right correct.

00:36:54
Speaker 2: And you know, the thing that we face in Florida is that, you know, our our busy season in Florida. Let's say it's November to mid April. November, December, and even part of January are very you know, the sun's up by seven thirty to eight o'clock and it's dark by five thirty. And so you know, you can do the numbers right there, and that's that's nine maybe ten hours of daylight. But it's not drying daylight. It's not you know, you're not going to dry out because of one day in the sun. That sun level is so low that while it's light out, it doesn't dry anything down. So you know, that's can be extremely detrimental to turf in Florida in the winter months because we just don't dry down. But yet that's the busiest time of year for us, so the expectations are high. You know, green speeds, they want them ABC or D. But if you get damaged from it, you're just you're just not growing enough to really heal out of anything, unless unless you're overseeded. There's a little bit more you can do. But you know, it's there's a lot of ways to get around that now, but you know it's you get damaged in this November and December or January even and you're not going to really start healing out of it till till March one maybe is kind of the time. So trying to get as much organic and thatch matter out of the top of of all your surfaces, especially greens, is only going to help them dry down a little bit quicker than than if they had to do it on their own, because it just just doesn't dry down, like a seventy five degree day is not. You're not gonna all of a sudden be grabbing hoses and and and and touching everything up at the end of the day. It just it just doesn't dry down like like like a sunny, warm day. Mike Dukes. I mean there's there's there's days where that you don't see the sun, hard to get above the tree lines. It's just just what it is.

00:38:54
Speaker 1: And and those are the busiest days of traffic for for Florida too. Yeah.

00:39:00
Speaker 2: Uh, and it'll be interesting, you know, with with the COVID thing, do we do more people come to Florida because at least we can get outside. You know, you can get outside in golf here. You can't. You're not gonna do that in Michigan where I'm or our family's from. You're not gonna do in Chicago. And so do you have more down here and then or other rounds of golf higher? So what what you're used to for rounds of golf? Are they higher? Are we having to be a little more cautious maybe in the amount that we roll and the heights of cuts that we we play with to get to get to our speeds. I mean, it's uh gonna be an interesting season for that because yeah, it's what we've known to to come in to to position the turf for you know, there's a lot of golf persons doing record numbers in the Northeast right now and then in the Midwest just astronomical numbers. Does that follow down here? You you almost have to believe it does.

00:39:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, double rounds of years before. You know, clubs that eight thousand rounds are going to see twenty thousand rounds this year. Public golf courses if you I mean, I've speaken from experience with my buddies. If you don't book a time early in the week, you're not getting one on the weekend until now five pm. And you know, it's it's a great thing. But the other aspect of it is is also for you guys managing your workforce. You know, at a time where you have to be extremely careful and you're dealing with more play than you've ever dealt with well.

00:40:33
Speaker 2: And you're not you know, you're not going to turn anybody away to play golf. I mean, the one good thing. And you know, hopefully some of the associations that that golf course Subertown's work with can can promote this, but I think it's been very loud and clear what the number one asset at a club is. It's it's the golf course and people are enjoying it. And when the golf courses are busy because that's given people something to do. I think it's a fantastic thing. And you know, some guys get bent out of shape over some of the little things about golfer's etiquette right now and stuff. And I've always I always get reminded, always remind my staff about how how you know that kind of stuff affords us the new equipment or a pay raise or another another staff member, all those things, and you know, it is what it is, and we have to adjust to we have to be open minded to things because it's just a it's a different world and we just have to be very diligent and vigilant at the same time, you know, we it's what we know in the turf world and how we go about things. You know, we we clean our equipment twice a day right now. We clean door handles in the maintenance facility before lunch and after lunch and at the end of the day. And it's just all these little things that you know, we have to protect our staff because if we don't have the staff, we're not gonna be able to even make a dent in what they want to see on the golf course. And you know, I think being here at Mountain Lake, I don't I think our rounds will be similar, just because it's a quieter club to begin with. But I think I think Florida is going to be a busy, epic center for golf this this coming winner, which is a good thing for South Florida and in Central Florida.

00:42:29
Speaker 1: Talk about what excited you you made the switch to Mountain Lake this spring, you know, right kind of when the when the world was you know changing. Uh, talk about what excited you about about making the move from Old Marsh up to Mountain Lake.

00:42:45
Speaker 2: So when I when I was at Friar's Head, the assistant there, Chris Barnicot was his name, or is his name. He's in Maine now at I think Augusta Country Club. One of his close friends was Craig Currier Beth Page, and Craig had a dog named Tilly, and I always wanted to have a dog named after the golf course I worked at. So I ended up having a Wilson, but I always wanted to name I always thought I was gonna name my first dog Rayner. I love Seth Rayner. He's my he's my guy, and I love his architecture. And I always kind of I remember golfing with Jim Yhans, the old former golf I'm sorry, superintendent at Yemen's Hall, and we were playing Long Cove and and he we were on the eighteenth hole and he turns around and says, I think I think it's safe to say that Pete Dye was a modern day Rainer, you know, with some of the angles and and and the abruptness of some of the you know, the the bunker faces and and and certain other things that you can connect between the two. And so I just fell in love with Rayner. And you know, there's only there's only two of them here in Florida. Mountain Lake is quite a quiet club. You know, Silva did the work here back in oh two oh three and kind of reinstated a lot of the Rainer template stuff and kind of you know, opened the eyes to a lot of UH golfers and members of what how special Rainer really is. And and you know the work that he did, because he was certainly didn't design nearly the courses that Ross did. You know, there's there's a small a small template of of holes that or golf courses that Rainer worked on, and we're we're excited for the future with with Gil. He's gonna start working on the master plan for us. This this winner, but an opportunity to be at one of two Rainer courses in South or I'm sorry, in Central Florida that just there. This this place just oozes coolness. It's just something about this place that it's just it's just cool. It's non pretentious. The people here know they got something special, but it's not something it's not a badge of honor when they when they are on property here. It's just everything flows here. It's like a step back in time. You know, there's a lot of game AND's halls is simple as a reflection I can make on on Mountain Lake. And there's a reason for that. There's a lot of connections between the amens and here and how it was built and who who was behind it at the time, and just an opportunity to you know, be a caretaker for something so cool just really just grabbed me and I couldn't turn it away. And the more I thought about it for longevity, the more I thought about it for future projects with what they have coming down the pipeline here, uh, and the interest to have an opportunity to work with Gil and his guys about you know, really turning back the clock here and grabbing some of the things that were original here. There's a lot of original photos, there's a lot of original books and stuff here. So there's a lot they did a really good job at documenting the place going back almost one hundred years now. And just an opportunity to be a caretaker. I think, I think any superintendent that really enjoys architecture wants to be entrusted to be that kind of caretaker. And I and it grabbed me pretty pretty easy.

00:46:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got to be excited to have new projects to work on. And I imagine, you know, doing the old Marsh there's a big, extensive project was really rewarding and and to a certain extent, that project work is it breaks It's a break from monotony of just you know, the you know, keeping on the same things every day. That project work really allows you new kind of thoughts and ability to do something differently every once in a while.

00:47:09
Speaker 2: You know, And that's that's always the by the time that I start getting man, I shouldn't say bored, but a little monotonous with the general maintenance. It's it's, you know, at the end of the season, we're starting to verify, and we're starting to make changes and you know mo lines or you know, reconstructing some bunkers or something like that that just kind of changes our mode. And now now going into our fourth verification, I'm I'm starting to starting to go the other way now. I mean, I just want to most im grass for all these days to be nice. But I think that's the cool thing that some of these uh, these clubs that work with architects that understand what they have and continue to put it in the capital investments, you know, to continually enhance things and continue to make improvements, are really you know, as a superintendent, it's awesome to be part of it. Expands kind of our knowledge, makes us puts more tools in our pockets if you will, you know, And and it all kind of started, you know, Pinter is that similar way. You know, when I was there, we ron Force was brought back in. He did the work there in ninety seven, and we brought him back in in twenty thirteen. He developed a master plan, and every summer that I was there pecked away at certain things on the master plan. And then when I went to Old Marsh, obviously we did a major renovation there, but there is there is already a template of three four five years out of subtle things, cart path things, and then here you know, I when when Gil does the master plan and how how it comes to fruition and little things, I have no doubt that it'll be a very similar program on we we dive in and I don't I don't get the impression it will be a full kind of blow up. I think it's going to be more things that we work on in time, whether it's bunker adjustments or you know, teeing grounds surrounds and trying to get the tea's flatter and mowing patterns, and then you know, hopefully recapture some of the edges of some of the greens and stuff like that and kind of tie in some of the rainer stuff a little bit cleaner maybe, And so I think it keeps superintendents driving. I think it, you know it it allows us to get out of the normal routine, if you will, and it shows our value. I mean we're superintendents are flexible. We I think the more interest in architecture and construction you can do, the more valuable you are to your employer. And you know it again, going back, I've been fortunate to be at clubs that understand what they have and want to continue to invest in it and make it better or preserve it if you will. That was always one thing a couple of places I worked at a preserving what was the original architectural intent I mean, And I'm glad to be at another one.

00:50:18
Speaker 1: Mountain Lake in the history of golf in Polk County is so interesting just from the standpoint of almost every great Golden Age architect built a course down there, and obviously, unfortunately, you know a lot of them have either been lost or just shells of what they are. But Mountain Lake were ma like it showcases why it became such a hotbed for design in the Golden Age. Is that unbelievable topography and and just you know, pure sand. And it could be another place where you have, you know, a resurgence maybe eventually of great golf.

00:50:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting because my my family, we had a place in Sarasota so we went to Lakeland a lot as kids watched the Detroit Tigers play baseball in the spring. And I'd only driven through this area once or twice when I came to South Florida from Colonial back in nine. And the difference from that time period to today, ten twelve years later, completely different area. And while some may still think it's it's you know, kinda kind of off the beaten path, if you will, it is much more populated than what it was. And I think I think you're going to see Lakeland still extend. I think you're going to see Orlando continue to go south, and which is good for us. I think you're going to keep picking up you know, members here and there, non residents to start, and those that really want to be centrally located but want to be at just a really cool club that is not, you know, not your Orlando kind of club and not not a Tampa club that and no knock on those I got. I got good friends. And there's some great golf person area, but Mount mounta Lake's just a different place where it's just uh, it just it's just reeks of coolness and it's hard to just hard to describe.

00:52:20
Speaker 1: So tell tell us about how you got into golf club Batless in the early days. I'm very curious about how you still that.

00:52:31
Speaker 2: You know, I golf gob atlas Is is a you know, like every every great club, they go through changes. And some of the reasons that people go, you know, become a member at X club, they you know that it can they think it changes and they end up leaving. And you know, mount I'm sorry, Golf Club atlas Is is different than it was. Uh, I'm dating myself. You're almost twenty years ago. But that's not a bad thing, you know. I think it was kind of it was kind of that when you said golf club at lists. You know, you either knew about golf clb at list or you didn't know anything about golf called at lists. And I think the coolness about it way back in the day was that was the intention. He didn't you know, it was a little cult, if you will, like you know, something you don't tell your wife about and you go talk to your boys about. And I got turned onto it kind of shortly after I went to Michigan State kind of I remember, kind of by accident, and it just kind of suited me to I'm hours and hours on that website learned about golf courses. And that was back in the day of Gibb and Tom Paul when they were you know, very very involved contributors. Tommy was on there a lot, and uh, you know where fifteen hundred members that was it, and and uh, you know, you you really had to kind of go through the ringer to even get accepted and get a password from Ram or even John at the time. And so you know, that kind of opened my eyes and and in in hindsight, I I owe a lot of a lot of people I met on there helped me out along the way, giving me information about golf courses that I was I was interested in learning more about. Certainly you know, helped me out with Friar's head, because you know, they're just people that have always been willing to give out information of hey, you got to call this person, or you know, I'll gladly host you if you were in town. You know that those sorts of things that long before social media and Twitter and Instagram some of these other platforms came available, that was just a great avenue for meeting people and and having doors opened about architecture and and golf courses, and and not necessarily access in the sense of like, I'm in town, I want to play golf, but just you know, tell me about the bones of the place, tell me about the you know, they're looking for an assistant. What what's the problem? You know, can you put me in contact with the superintendent? What?

00:55:21
Speaker 1: You know?

00:55:21
Speaker 2: Certain little things like that that just long before the simplicity of social media that it is now. And uh, I still check every day. I don't. I don't participate nearly as much and on golf go batlests as I once did. Uh. For I just I don't have the time anymore. I got a two and a half year old daughter and new job and those sorts of things. But I certainly wouldn't know nearly what I think I know about architecture if it wasn't for for Golf of the Outlas.

00:55:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I was. I was a kid that you, sir. I never was a member. I was just read the message for as like I was in college and you know, so I was cool.

00:56:07
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure my grades in college could have been much better if I didn't have hours and hours on GCA. Well, I was at Michigan State. I have no doubt absorbed a lot of my study.

00:56:19
Speaker 1: Time that it was the you know, really the first where the sharing and spreading of information, which is you know, incredible, you still go on there. I was looking for a map the other day and they have that great thread of all the routing maps on there. Yeah, like yeah, you know you and I hadn't found it, but I was only you know, ten ten pages of a seventy thread thing with all these old routing maps, and then the process I you know, I clicked and saved like six other ones. You know, it's always cool.

00:56:52
Speaker 2: Every once in a while you'll see a thread come up that you know dates back to two thousand and six or two thousand and four or something like that, and then you come across something that you personally wrote back then you're like, oh my gosh, what an idiot. I wish I could delete that, and you know, just but but it's just really cool how you know, so much is there and now it's you know, it's it's borderline of household name. When it comes to golf course websites and in architectural websites, I don't I don't really know of one that I would put on the same pedestal as golf cubalas h.

00:57:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a tremendous resource. And you know it's the uh, you don't necessarily want to wait into that discussion board all that much. You know, you got to be.

00:57:38
Speaker 2: Prepared to put a bulletproof vest on.

00:57:40
Speaker 3: Now.

00:57:41
Speaker 2: Back back in the day, it was a little more oh man, more informative in a sense of it. We were all kind of learning. And now it's you know, you you you spell F A Z on on a discussion board and you're gonna you're gonna get drug over the coals and you didn't even finish it with an I in and O and someone's ready to go after you.

00:58:03
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's but the information is just out of this world. And that's you know, the people that have spent so much time contributed it just you know, if I was if I was a superintendent at you know, I took a job somewhere, the first thing I'd probably do would be to search that to see what historical anecdotes that people have posted over the years there.

00:58:26
Speaker 2: I would be lying if Mountain Lake wasn't typed in the search function, probably within the hour and me finding out that this position was available just to see recent photos or who says what about I always knew it was a special place, and but I'd be lying too. As much as I thought I knew about architecture, I didn't. I didn't know about Mountain Lake when I moved to Florida in oh I think oh nine. I came here from Texas, So I didn't know about Mountain Lake then. And uh So, over the years being in Florida and seeing in rankings and you know, under trying to understand Rainer a little bit more and other other Golden Age architects, that search function became a real real handy for me and especially even just researching this position here and you know, the understanding the template holes and what goal numbers were. What. Yeah, that search function probably probably in the first hour, was used.

00:59:25
Speaker 1: For Mountain Like what's what's been the coolest thing that you've learned about Mountain Lakes since you've been there or during the process of interviewing the coolest thing is there?

00:59:36
Speaker 2: You know, the membership here is when they sincerely ask you how you're doing. It's a it's not an in passing question. There are really good people here. And you know, it's easy for an employee, if you will, to say that about any to be politically correct, but there's a genuine like I mean, I'm I've had a member offer up their cottage for me since I since I took the position here, all my family and I've you know, are are looking at houses from home Beach, and you know, there's just a general, really sincere membership here that understands what they have. They're not. They don't want to change a lot of the stuff here, you know, they want to make it better, but there's a certain vibe that this place has that they don't want to change that. And when you when you look at ultra modernness and ultra extreme here, it's nothing about Mountainlake that's that way. They're very comfortable in who they are, They're very proud of who they are, and it's just a very man it's just a very cool place to be a part of, you know, the architectural part. You know, they they're members at other clubs up north and North Carolina and Connecticut, and and none of them come from a specific type of club that you would go, oh yeah, that's a you know, that's a Mountain Lake member over there, they come from everywhere up north that they all come here and have a similar interest in this place. And it's it's a big property. It's it's you know, expansive property surrounded by orange groves. And there's not a lot of houses here. There's one hundred and fifteen hundred and twenty houses here, So for the size of the property, it's not a lot of houses. It's spaced out really well, so it doesn't feel like you're on top of each other. But you know, the simplicity and the coolness of the architecture. I know, I keep saying that word. It's just unlike anything in Florida. It's not it's different than the Everglades, you know, the way when I first it's interesting. I think the coolest thing here is is all the all the money, time and effort that we put into raising everything at Old Marsh. The first week I was here, we took two and a half inches of rain in one afternoon and my first thought was, all, man, we're gonna be carts only tomorrow. And the assistant here told me is like, nah, we're fine, don't worry about it. And we come out faraways the next day, and I was like, this is nice, this is really great, and you know, just just things like that is you don't think about sometimes that just enhance this place and not to take it out of the you know, there's just not a bad day here. I just I have a hard time imagining and being a member at Mountain Lake. There's a there's a bad day. It's just it's just a step back in time. It's really awesome.

01:02:51
Speaker 1: Can you make it an accomplished One of my one of my dreams is that I really want to just when it's just monsooning out, go sit at a rain or punch bowl and watch it drain.

01:03:03
Speaker 2: It's it's amazing.

01:03:05
Speaker 1: It is.

01:03:06
Speaker 2: I mean, we've taken we've taken some heavy, heavy hitters. I mean it rained two inches in about an hour on Sunday night, and I'm here by the thirteenth green, and thirteenth Green looked like the pond by seven green and an hour later, hardly tell it rained and the place trains fantastic. It's just and we mowed faaraways and rough the next day, and I don't we hardly think about it anymore. It's great coming from a place in the marsh and to hear it, it's certainly it's certainly a good problem to have, if you will.

01:03:40
Speaker 1: Amazing story. I was with Kyle Franz, who is who's doing the restoration work at at Country Club of Charleston now, and he was telling me he was building a practice screen and obviously they're kind of in a tidal marsh and they have flooding issues. It's very low set right on the marsh level, and he was building this practice green and he was thinking, like, I don't know how high I should build this thing. And he just went over and he looked at the nearest Reiner green and he saw the height that the Rainer built it, and he's like, you know what, that's probably the right height.

01:04:14
Speaker 2: And he was probably right.

01:04:16
Speaker 1: So he built it the right height. Sure enough, they have a crazy historic flood and his practice green is perfect, you know, not had did not get covered of water at all. And it's because Rainer just the guy was an engineering genius.

01:04:30
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, he built it, built it out of the water water line, you know. And it's interesting. I I one of the last places I visited before I left Loonko for Colonial is when Silva is doing the work at country club at Charleston back and I guess it'll be seven now, and just how flat that property was. But yet all these little bluffs, all these little blurps of bunker noses and greens, and you just kind of look at and go, they ever got a king tide or if they ran a you know, a Cat one her hurricane, it probably wouldn't Unlike you know what happened to the Lost Dunes over the years, and what they struggled with at Key Island, you know it all all those speatures would still be probably have their their their necks out of the water. Yet it makes sense, you know, you look at Rayner one hundred years ago and it's got to be part of the reason he did it.

01:05:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a genius. So we'll get you out of here. We need one Kyle Heglund story. Since you guys were room base in college. Obviously have a former podcast guest, hopefully a future podcast guests for around two But I need a little I need a little Kyle Heglund Ammo.

01:05:39
Speaker 2: So he became his first year at Michigan State, he became close friends with a Keith Krause.

01:05:46
Speaker 1: I don't quite well you know Keith Okay, well he's in Chicago, He's the Chicago Land guys.

01:05:52
Speaker 2: So he he his family had a summer home. I believe this is how his family had a summer home up by Crystal Downs. And Keith ended up interning for Mike Morris up there. Uh. And the first second third weekend back our second year, Kyle went up there and you know, everything was the downs, the downs, the downs and downs and downs and and I think it just stirred Kyle's emotions about architecture. He had He had already worked at Austin Golf Club for Doug Peterson at the time and got to meet Ben and they talked about the downs and the downs and downs. And Kyle was my actual roommate at school, and so we had we both had that connection that we had worked at Core Crunchhawk Courses UH for our internships. And I want to say he was he was either reading the Riviera book or the Donald Ross book. And I remember him crystal clear saying, someday I want to be the superintendent of sand Hills. And my first thought was like, man, I know you're from Wisconsin and everything. You know where Mulla, Nebraska is like that is it's got to be a mile marker and it's got to be sixty yards or sixty miles to the nearest Walmart. I mean, there's nothing out there, and you know, lo and behold. He did his time at Austin Golf Club and whatnot. And I remember the day I had heard he got the position at sand Hills and it's ten years ago now, maybe something like that, and I just kind of chuckled to myself because that was his dream. He wanted to be there, and he's done awesome stuff since then. He filed to followed a great lineage of superintendents that have done good work there and left a pretty good plate for him to work on. But he his love for architecture. That whole Alistair Mackenzie crystal Downs lineage to sand Hills and it really sparked. I think it really enhanced his interest in architecture. And from them there, him and I have always had a an interest in architecture, and we spent I can't remember, we both took the architecture class taught by a Jerry Matthews associate, and I remember us both we signed them.

01:08:19
Speaker 1: There was an architecture class at Michigan's.

01:08:21
Speaker 2: There was yeah, our second our second year, first semester, and I thought that was gonna be the best class ever, Like, I'm ready for this. This is what I do, this is what I want to do. I got all these church bulletins to go off of to pull knowledge from. And I remember, I know I did it, and I and I I dare say Kyle did it too. We got docked down for building a blind par four. It was not a perfectly viewed green from the fairway. We built a blind par four where you had to you know, similar to number five at Old Mar or something like that. And I remember just thinking, this is the one class where I've been looking forward to for a year. And I spent so much time on the draws, and we compared notes and you know, we had the sweetly bunkers, the Jeff bradley S kind of bunkers, blowouts and everything, and and uh, I remember, I'm confident, I know I didn't get an A in that class. And I'm confident to say he got docked down for not building a perfect template style green with a perfect cookie cutter bunker and a perfect you know, a contour cut fairway and all that stuff and it is it is what it is. But I think I think that that time together enhanced our interest in architecture tremendously. And I think, you know, Kyle, Kyle's done some awesome stuff at at sand Hills and it's cool to see, you know, some of the cool stuff and some of the guys that he's worked with have come through there, and uh, you know how much of a hardhead he was in school sometimes and the guy just gets it. He's uh, he's fantastic.

01:10:08
Speaker 1: It's uh, you know, ties the conversation perfectly back because I think you just explained the difference between Jerry Matthews architecture and Mike Devreese architecture and the process.

01:10:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll connect those final two dots there. That's I remember being so hurt when I got my grade back. I was so hurt, but oh well I got over it pretty quick.

01:10:33
Speaker 1: You know, grading architecture would be extremely difficult.

01:10:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, who are you to great my architecture?

01:10:43
Speaker 1: That's so good? All right, Well, hey, this has been fun. I will have to do a part two someday, hopefully in better times where we can do it in person, and uh, you know, maybe over a beer, but I really appreciate the time. Congratulations done a new job, and I can't wait to see what you guys do down there at Mountain Lake. It's it's one of my favorite places in Florida.

01:11:08
Speaker 2: Thank you so much,