165 | Q&A Lightning Round #6: Three Questions From Listeners Answered

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get a master class in child centered

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play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode. I am doing a mini lightning round of questions.

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So I'm answering three questions from listeners.

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I'm trying to get through these quickly and I know sometimes you all are waiting. So

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I'm gonna try to do some mini lightning rounds.

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So you don't have to listen for an hour,

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but I can still get multiple questions done at a time.

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So

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we're going to hear questions from Melanie from Iowa, Cindy, from California.

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Julia from California.

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Thank you for your questions.

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However few housekeeping things before I get into questions and answers.

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First of all,

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I have a huge congratulations to my most

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recent round of Six Figure Play Therapist graduates.

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We last week graduated eight therapists from all over the world

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and I'm just so excited for them. I hope that you are excited with me for them.

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It makes me feel really happy to know that

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there are really solid rock star, child-centered play therapists,

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entering into the world to do work and do the work that we have to do with kids.

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And in the way that makes the most sense for kids.

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So my

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Aussies Jos

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Clay and Cindy, so happy for you all on the other side of the world.

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And then my Americans, Andy Tracy Julie Colleen and Sarah,

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huge congratulations to the eight of you.

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And it's just been such a fun year with you all. So I'm so happy and hopefully we

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will see each other very soon in all kinds of capacities.

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I'm gonna talk about that in just a second.

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All right. Secondly, huge. Thank you to all of you who have been sending me gifts.

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I want to actually share with you a couple of

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things that I've gotten because it's just been so fun.

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So I don't know, a lot of you may know that tiramisu is my favorite dessert.

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I think I've mentioned that a couple of times

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and so I got a gift card to an Italian restaurant that we

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have in the states called Maggiano's and they have the absolute best tiramisu.

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So I cannot wait to get a whole bunch of tiramisu from there. So huge.

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Thank you to my girls that got me that.

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And then

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I don't know if you all are not from Australia,

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you may have no idea what's going on with the whole vegemite thing.

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Although if you know, the

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men at work song where she's just smiled and gave him a Vegemite sandwich.

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That might be your reference to vegemite. However,

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I got like an all things Australia box

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this week

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and it had a little stuffed koala and soap made from Manuka.

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Honey related aside, I'm kind of a honey aficionado

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and

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it's one of like the few sweet things that I eat and I love honey and I'm like, really,

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really into unique honey.

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And Manuka honey is one of my all time favorite honey.

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And I know that it only grows in New Zealand.

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And I know it's like this specialty thing.

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That's why it costs a fortune, blah, blah, blah. Anyway,

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so I got honey, sorry, I made, I got soap made from Manuka honey.

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I got Vegemite, which I'm going to talk about in a second.

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I got a little stuffed koala. Super cute.

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I got a tea towel full of all kinds of Australian slang.

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So that was really helpful because

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I heard my, my

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Aussie say up whoop, whoop. And I was like, what in the world is that?

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Apparently that's like in the middle of nowhere.

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So for us we say like, oh yeah, out there in podunk,

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that's, that's the American Southern slang. So,

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you know, in the middle of nowhere is up whoop whoop in Australia.

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So I'm learning all kinds of those phrases.

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Anyway. Vegemite. Let me get back to this.

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So I've heard of it in land down under, right? The men at work song

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and

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you smell it and it smells kind of sweet.

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It kind of smells like prunes.

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And I mean, I'm not a huge prunes fan but prunes aren't bad.

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So I was like, oh,

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it kind of smells like prunes and I just took a fork and

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stuck it in there and put a whole wad in my mouth.

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Y'all. Vegemite is not good on a fork. I'm just gonna tell you right now.

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Wow, I was not prepared.

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And then of course, my Australians are like, yeah, it's best in really small doses.

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I only like it on toast, blah, blah, blah.

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I'm like, yeah, I didn't, I didn't know what I was supposed to do with that.

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But look, I can say that I have been exposed to vegemite,

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which makes me happy and I'm glad that I tried it.

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I might give it a go on bread just to see

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because I've been told that's the best way to eat it. But off of a fork,

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10 out of 10 people do not recommend

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OK.

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That was,

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that was my excitement for the week.

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Anyway,

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moral of the story is congrats to all my graduates can thank you so much for my gifts.

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I always love when I get little surprises. So that made me very happy this week.

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So for all of you that sent me the stuff, I really appreciate it. Thank you.

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For the cards and the emails as well.

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I know that y'all extend yourselves a lot to me and

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you really don't know how much that means to me.

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I woke up this morning

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and there were two emails in my inbox just

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talking about how the podcast has helped them so much and thanking me and

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filling me in on, you know, what,

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where they listen and what they've learned and all of that.

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So y'all seriously, it means a lot. I just want you to know that.

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Ok. Third and final housekeeping before we move on,

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I mentioned in the last episode that you all need to make plans to go to Atlanta

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in October for the APT conference and I'm trying to get a vendor booth there.

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So we are planning all kinds of things,

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meetups and dinners and podcast people and

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coaching people and Collective people and it's just gonna be awesome.

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And yes, there may be merchandise that's related to CCPT,

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Eric's working on some options.

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So I don't know, bumper stickers, hats, keychains, we'll see

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anyway.

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However,

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in new and recent development news

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in November, I mean, you know, you probably are gonna have to plan and decide.

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So Atlanta in October, APT conference,

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if you all have a travel love, if you all want to go to the other side of the world

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or those of you that are on the other side of the world

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just know that I am presenting in Australia in November

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for the play therapy conference there

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in Queensland.

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So

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to all of my

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Aussies,

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I am so excited to come to you and I cannot wait to meet you all in person.

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And for those of you that may want to go to Australia, that's not a hard sell.

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It's like living in Florida, like who has a hard time visiting Florida.

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So if you want to go to Australia know that

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you can go to a play therapy conference in November,

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which is their spring.

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So I've been told so lovely weather

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and end of November right before Thanksgiving. So you'll be off work anyway.

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I mean, this is just working out for you all.

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So

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end of November for play therapy conference in Australia,

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if you are able to go, I would love to have you. But all of my

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Aussies and New Zealanders. I can't wait.

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I'm coming to the land down under.

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All right.

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Back to questions. Thanks for indulging my housekeeping.

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This is why I love podcasting y'all.

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I feel like I just get to sit and chit chat with you. Like I'm,

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you know, hanging out with my friends. This is fun.

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All right.

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So let's get into questions. So, Cindy, from, where are you from?

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Cindy, California,

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I'm gonna read her question and then I'll share some thoughts. So

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she says she's been a children's therapist for over 30 years

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and the CCPT model on the podcast has renewed vigor and practice.

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I'm so happy to hear that, Cindy.

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All right. So here's the question.

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So for parents who say y'all, how many times have we heard this?

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For parents who say, well, if kids under age 12 aren't cognitive or rational,

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then why is it that they can learn, reading, writing and math?

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Why can't they learn the skills to cope?

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And then she puts in parentheses, they mean CBT,

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right.

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The age old question, why can't they just play by themselves and figure this out?

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Why can't they just learn

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how to control themselves? They can learn in school. What's the difference?

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All right, Cindy. Thank you so much for that question.

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That's actually really helpful. So let's dive in

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first

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and maybe most importantly,

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academics

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are

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very formulaic

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and

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it is academic learning.

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A child's brain is wired to soak everything up like a sponge.

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So of course, a child can learn to read.

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There's a formula to it. Of course, a child can learn to do math.

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There's a formula to it. Of course they can learn to write. There's a formula to it.

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It's academic

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and it is something that they are able to follow a system

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and implement it,

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which is the polar opposite

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of

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everything else in their world.

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Everything else in their world is emotional

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and there is no formula,

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there is no structure

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for a child. They are here and now they're emotional, they're driven by the moment.

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So when they get upset,

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the feeling overwhelms them

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and that's all they can respond to. There's no formula for

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understanding your feelings.

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An emotional vocabulary helps you understand your feelings,

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increasing your emotional IQ helps you understand your feelings.

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But it isn't something that you just sit down and have someone teach you and

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have an academic approach to it.

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So I think the huge distinct difference is that emotions are not linear.

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They are not concrete, they're not black and white

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and kids experiences are 100% emotional

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until abstract reasoning develops around 13.

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So I think that's the very first and most important distinction.

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My second thought is

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I'm going to actually throw in another question that's related to this,

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that people have asked me

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well, if they're not cognitive and they're not rational,

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then when you set limits and when you give choices,

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they're obviously using their brains.

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So that doesn't make sense if you're giving

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them limits and giving them choices and they

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have to think through those options and they

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choose their outcome that is very clearly cognitive.

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And if they're not cognitive, then that doesn't make sense.

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Well,

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and actually my husband and I had that conversation like when our son,

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maybe even before he was born and then when our son was young,

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that was one of Eric's main points of confusion about the CCPT model

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was

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if you're giving kids limits and giving kids choices, those are cognitive.

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So how can you say that they're not cognitive?

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And it took me a really long time to,

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because I would answer the question and he would go, that doesn't make sense.

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And then I would answer the question a different

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way and he would say that doesn't make sense.

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And my answers were always experiential.

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Like I would explain in the playroom well, in the playroom when you know blah, blah,

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blah, and he would go, yeah, but that still doesn't answer the question.

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So I finally got to a point

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where I was able to articulate it in a way that he was like, ok, I understand that now.

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So I think this will also be helpful for your question, Cindy.

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When a child is

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making a choice

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when a child is complying with a limit,

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let's be very clear that if they are under 13,

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it is a conditioned emotional response

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to a scenario that would normally require cognitive process.

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And let me explain what I mean by that.

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When you give a child a choice,

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you can choose,

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let's say ultimate choice because that would be a little bit more appropriate here.

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So if you choose not to finish your dinner, you choose not to have dessert tonight.

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If you choose to finish your dinner, you choose to have dessert tonight,

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which do you choose?

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Ok.

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So

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early on

246
00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:59,070
in that moment when the child says this dinner is gross I don't wanna eat anymore.

247
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:00,630
I'm not eating one more bite.

248
00:12:01,479 --> 00:12:03,729
They are emotionally reactive

249
00:12:04,159 --> 00:12:06,640
and therefore their choice to not finish

250
00:12:06,650 --> 00:12:09,500
their dinner aligns with their emotional reactivity.

251
00:12:10,349 --> 00:12:11,609
That's not cognitive.

252
00:12:11,859 --> 00:12:13,450
It's 100% emotional.

253
00:12:14,169 --> 00:12:17,979
I don't like this. I don't want to eat it. End of story emotional.

254
00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:20,080
But what happens

255
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,479
when they have also then chosen not to have dessert?

256
00:12:23,859 --> 00:12:26,659
They have an emotional reaction to not having dessert too.

257
00:12:28,070 --> 00:12:30,169
They hate the fact that they didn't get dessert.

258
00:12:30,289 --> 00:12:33,770
They're so upset, they cry, they beg, they plead,

259
00:12:33,780 --> 00:12:35,940
they're overwhelmed with disappointment.

260
00:12:35,950 --> 00:12:38,140
They're overwhelmed with anger that you are so

261
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:39,840
mean that you won't let me have dessert,

262
00:12:39,849 --> 00:12:40,210
right?

263
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:42,669
Also an emotional response.

264
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:44,179
So here's what happens.

265
00:12:44,619 --> 00:12:49,200
It becomes a conditioned emotional response next time. Very same.

266
00:12:49,210 --> 00:12:50,960
Ultimate choice is provided

267
00:12:52,349 --> 00:12:53,630
the child goes.

268
00:12:53,890 --> 00:12:54,570
Oh,

269
00:12:55,229 --> 00:12:59,619
yeah, I hated not having dessert last time. Never mind. It's not worth it.

270
00:12:59,630 --> 00:13:00,630
I'll just finish my dinner.

271
00:13:02,859 --> 00:13:06,890
They choose the lesser of the pain of the emotion.

272
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:13,219
There's an age old, age old adage. Wow, that's hard to say. There's an age

273
00:13:13,330 --> 00:13:14,289
old adage

274
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,609
that says people will change

275
00:13:16,919 --> 00:13:21,130
when the pain of change is less than the pain of things staying the same.

276
00:13:22,479 --> 00:13:24,659
Ok. So if things stayed the same

277
00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:27,739
and it was miserable, not having dessert,

278
00:13:28,849 --> 00:13:32,049
then never mind, I'll just eat because that's

279
00:13:32,169 --> 00:13:34,070
not as bad as not having dessert,

280
00:13:35,390 --> 00:13:37,440
it's still 100% emotional.

281
00:13:37,489 --> 00:13:42,150
They've just been conditioned by which emotion was worse to deal with

282
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:44,669
same thing with limit setting.

283
00:13:46,510 --> 00:13:47,570
You really

284
00:13:48,340 --> 00:13:51,200
want to go see your friends right now, but it's time for dinner.

285
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,719
You can choose to see your friends after dinner

286
00:13:53,729 --> 00:13:55,969
or you can choose to see your friends tomorrow.

287
00:13:56,479 --> 00:13:57,450
Which do you choose

288
00:13:58,590 --> 00:14:02,789
which of these choices is going to make me feel the best

289
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:09,090
or conversely, which of these choices is going to make me feel the least bad.

290
00:14:10,109 --> 00:14:12,659
They're both bad. I want to see my friend right now.

291
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,539
But which of these is going to make me feel the least bad?

292
00:14:16,450 --> 00:14:19,000
Ok. Notice that this is still all emotional.

293
00:14:20,229 --> 00:14:22,710
So we do not understand what is

294
00:14:22,719 --> 00:14:26,030
happening through the child-centered play therapy approach

295
00:14:26,510 --> 00:14:30,130
with they are cognitively processing anything. No, they're not.

296
00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:34,090
They're experientially and emotionally processing everything.

297
00:14:35,099 --> 00:14:37,119
All right. And then finally,

298
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,260
well, if kids under 12 aren't cognitive irrational, why is it that they can learn,

299
00:14:42,270 --> 00:14:43,190
reading, writing and math?

300
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:44,820
Why can't they learn skills to cope?

301
00:14:45,890 --> 00:14:47,750
They do learn skills to cope?

302
00:14:48,250 --> 00:14:50,349
That's exactly what the playroom affords them.

303
00:14:51,349 --> 00:14:52,460
They learn coping,

304
00:14:52,940 --> 00:14:54,239
they learn resilience,

305
00:14:54,489 --> 00:14:57,450
they learn problem solving, they learn to build self esteem.

306
00:14:59,159 --> 00:15:01,109
That's exactly what they're doing in the playroom.

307
00:15:02,770 --> 00:15:06,229
But it's through the context of the relationship with you

308
00:15:08,109 --> 00:15:11,010
because you're serving as the therapeutic guide rails

309
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:13,710
for everything that's happening

310
00:15:13,969 --> 00:15:16,280
as they're navigating this path that they're on.

311
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,619
And without the therapeutic guide rail,

312
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,210
namely the child-centered Play therapist,

313
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:24,080
they flounder,

314
00:15:24,250 --> 00:15:27,729
they drive in reverse, they do donuts in the middle of the road.

315
00:15:27,739 --> 00:15:31,609
They have no idea where they're going, why they're going there,

316
00:15:31,619 --> 00:15:32,969
how they're supposed to get there.

317
00:15:33,690 --> 00:15:34,530
They flounder

318
00:15:35,390 --> 00:15:38,989
and the relationship provides the safety and the security

319
00:15:39,739 --> 00:15:43,020
so that they know that they can get where they want to go.

320
00:15:44,599 --> 00:15:48,059
So, do they learn the coping skills? 100%?

321
00:15:48,549 --> 00:15:49,700
But they don't

322
00:15:49,849 --> 00:15:51,059
do it alone?

323
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,580
That's the very important distinction.

324
00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:56,320
And that's why child center play therapy is so special because

325
00:15:56,469 --> 00:15:58,739
the relationship is at the crux of everything we do.

326
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:01,590
All right, Cindy. So I hope that's helpful.

327
00:16:01,599 --> 00:16:03,969
I'm glad that you sent that question in that was

328
00:16:03,979 --> 00:16:05,940
something that I think will benefit a lot of people.

329
00:16:05,950 --> 00:16:06,960
So I appreciate that.

330
00:16:07,549 --> 00:16:10,489
All right. So now we're moving on to Melanie, not her actual name.

331
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:12,359
She asked to remain non anonymous,

332
00:16:12,809 --> 00:16:14,419
but Melanie from Iowa

333
00:16:14,909 --> 00:16:18,780
and question here, this is actually a little bit of a longer question.

334
00:16:18,789 --> 00:16:22,450
So I will condense and kind of give you the cliff's notes if you will.

335
00:16:23,250 --> 00:16:26,130
She says that she's been working with a child for around six months

336
00:16:26,969 --> 00:16:29,979
and she's been steadily applying and refining the

337
00:16:29,989 --> 00:16:32,190
skills that have been discussed in the podcast.

338
00:16:32,590 --> 00:16:37,070
And in the past, she had not been fully child-centered.

339
00:16:37,479 --> 00:16:40,549
So she's been working really hard to be congruent in the playroom

340
00:16:40,690 --> 00:16:42,869
and also in communication with parents.

341
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,229
So congrats on that. Um 00, I almost just said your real name, Melanie.

342
00:16:47,239 --> 00:16:48,659
I'm gonna, I'm gonna be really careful.

343
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:49,690
So

344
00:16:49,890 --> 00:16:53,770
thank you for being honest and vulnerable about that and, and you know,

345
00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:56,989
just really trying to work to, to change your practice.

346
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,489
That's, that's a big shift and it takes a lot of courage and it takes a lot of work.

347
00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:03,169
So I hope that you feel very proud of that.

348
00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:06,050
Ok. So the, the actual question,

349
00:17:06,510 --> 00:17:10,118
it means I've realized that I've made many mistakes with this specific child.

350
00:17:10,368 --> 00:17:11,689
I did not correct her mom.

351
00:17:11,699 --> 00:17:14,608
One day when her mom told her not to destroy my playroom anymore,

352
00:17:15,020 --> 00:17:15,939
I

353
00:17:16,708 --> 00:17:19,708
often allowed her to explore the entire therapy building,

354
00:17:19,718 --> 00:17:22,188
leaving the playroom and we acted as spies.

355
00:17:22,198 --> 00:17:25,108
I did not set a limit to stay in the playroom.

356
00:17:25,239 --> 00:17:25,249
A

357
00:17:25,398 --> 00:17:29,448
final example that comes to mind is something would break or spill.

358
00:17:29,468 --> 00:17:31,968
And I did not have the language to say you're looking at

359
00:17:31,979 --> 00:17:34,659
me or watching my reaction to see if that was ok.

360
00:17:35,579 --> 00:17:38,030
I'm worried because I initially did not know the right

361
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,739
way to handle situations or know the correct limits.

362
00:17:41,050 --> 00:17:43,910
And then our therapy seemed like more of a

363
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,410
fun outlet for her than a therapeutic process.

364
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,130
She started play therapy due to parents report of aggressive play.

365
00:17:50,699 --> 00:17:52,040
And my question is,

366
00:17:52,050 --> 00:17:54,719
is it too late for this child for play therapy with me

367
00:17:54,729 --> 00:17:57,239
to be effective now that I have a better handle on things?

368
00:17:57,349 --> 00:18:00,300
How do I hold conviction in the efficacy of play therapy?

369
00:18:00,310 --> 00:18:02,680
If I know I've made mistakes? And created confusion.

370
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,890
Do I continue to believe that this child is

371
00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:07,099
just continuing to work through what she needs?

372
00:18:07,109 --> 00:18:09,709
And that her timeline looks different from the parents

373
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:10,520
also.

374
00:18:10,530 --> 00:18:11,140
Do you,

375
00:18:11,150 --> 00:18:14,969
how do you separate between a child who may have a DH D versus

376
00:18:14,979 --> 00:18:18,380
a child who is playing out the need for control and creates chaos?

377
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,339
And then she added a final another email came in that said

378
00:18:23,469 --> 00:18:26,300
basically, I'm asking if it's too late for this to be effective.

379
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:30,099
Mainly because the parent reports, she has seen no improvement in the aggression.

380
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,729
This makes me feel that we aren't making or can't make progress.

381
00:18:34,349 --> 00:18:35,650
All right, Melanie, thank you.

382
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,319
Let me just share an overarching thought before I dive into some specifics.

383
00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:45,760
This is something that I've had a conversation with probably

384
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,540
60 or so therapists at this point in all

385
00:18:49,550 --> 00:18:53,069
of the various arenas in which I'm interacting with counselors

386
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,819
because inevitably

387
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:56,810
we

388
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,800
start out doing one thing and then we find CCPT it's very, very rare.

389
00:19:01,810 --> 00:19:04,339
Let me put it this way. I'm, I'm the outlier. I know that

390
00:19:04,510 --> 00:19:09,319
it's very rare for people to have only ever been child-centered their whole career.

391
00:19:09,589 --> 00:19:10,280
And

392
00:19:10,719 --> 00:19:11,390
having,

393
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:14,640
you know, having started there been very,

394
00:19:14,650 --> 00:19:17,189
very solidly grounded in theory from day one.

395
00:19:17,199 --> 00:19:17,739
It's,

396
00:19:18,699 --> 00:19:19,560
it's like,

397
00:19:19,670 --> 00:19:23,079
you know, the albino unicorn, right? Like it does not exist.

398
00:19:24,089 --> 00:19:29,670
So almost everyone at some point has a massive shift and goes OK. I'm all in.

399
00:19:29,949 --> 00:19:33,469
But that means that sometimes midway through clients,

400
00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:36,939
you're making the transition to wholly CCPT

401
00:19:37,050 --> 00:19:40,479
and you hadn't been before. So I have this conversation all the time.

402
00:19:40,489 --> 00:19:40,739
Well,

403
00:19:40,750 --> 00:19:43,589
what about with these kids that I started directive or I

404
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:47,160
started eclectic or I didn't really understand CCPT.

405
00:19:47,170 --> 00:19:51,359
Well, how do can I do this? How do I make this work, et cetera, et cetera.

406
00:19:51,369 --> 00:19:54,520
So, Melanie, this is something that everyone struggles with.

407
00:19:54,739 --> 00:19:57,699
And I'm really pleased that this question came in

408
00:19:57,709 --> 00:19:59,079
because I think this will be really helpful.

409
00:19:59,550 --> 00:19:59,979
OK.

410
00:20:00,550 --> 00:20:03,310
Number one, whenever we make a change

411
00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:06,819
and this is universal, all CCPT, right?

412
00:20:06,949 --> 00:20:09,459
When we make a change, if the playroom is different,

413
00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:12,579
if something has been moved in the playroom,

414
00:20:12,589 --> 00:20:16,800
if we're going to not see the child the next week, for whatever reason,

415
00:20:16,949 --> 00:20:17,849
if w

416
00:20:18,430 --> 00:20:20,540
whatever happens

417
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,489
that is different or a change,

418
00:20:24,199 --> 00:20:25,439
we want to

419
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,329
make sure that we directly discuss that with the child.

420
00:20:29,219 --> 00:20:32,739
When we start the termination process, that's a change. We bring that up.

421
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:37,180
If we're going to take a break for Christmas or for spring break or for

422
00:20:37,189 --> 00:20:40,599
whatever spring break is like the Easter week off of school in the States,

423
00:20:41,689 --> 00:20:44,770
we let kids know why because we want them to

424
00:20:44,780 --> 00:20:47,609
know what to expect and we want to eliminate confusion.

425
00:20:48,140 --> 00:20:51,670
So, Melanie, you're going to outwardly, if you haven't already,

426
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,420
you're going to outwardly say to this little girl.

427
00:20:55,199 --> 00:20:57,979
I wanted to tell you something I know when we started

428
00:20:58,430 --> 00:20:59,050
that,

429
00:20:59,630 --> 00:21:02,609
I used to talk to you a little bit differently and we used

430
00:21:02,619 --> 00:21:05,250
to do things a little bit differently than we have been lately.

431
00:21:05,719 --> 00:21:09,939
I've been learning different ways to do my job

432
00:21:10,099 --> 00:21:13,060
and I wanted you to know that some of the things that I did early on,

433
00:21:13,329 --> 00:21:17,180
I'm not doing those anymore. So when you're here, you're completely in charge.

434
00:21:17,380 --> 00:21:20,989
And when you're here, all of our play time is spent in the playroom.

435
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,869
And when you're here, sometimes accidents happen.

436
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,300
Now, obviously, you're not gonna go through every single one of these.

437
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:29,699
I'm just when these opportunities present themselves,

438
00:21:29,709 --> 00:21:33,020
when an accident happens in the playroom, when something spills,

439
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:34,689
you actually address it.

440
00:21:34,949 --> 00:21:35,349
You know,

441
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,609
I know things like that have happened before and

442
00:21:37,619 --> 00:21:39,410
I never actually said this phrase to you,

443
00:21:39,420 --> 00:21:41,849
but I want you to know that sometimes accidents happen.

444
00:21:42,189 --> 00:21:44,339
I didn't say that before, but I should have

445
00:21:45,239 --> 00:21:48,770
you just address it, get rid of the elephant in the room.

446
00:21:48,780 --> 00:21:50,689
So whenever something comes up,

447
00:21:50,699 --> 00:21:53,569
that is different and you recognize that it might

448
00:21:53,579 --> 00:21:56,339
be confusing for the child without an explanation.

449
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,890
You just do a very short

450
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:01,170
admission of

451
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,189
what used to be and what is now,

452
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,469
that's extremely important.

453
00:22:05,670 --> 00:22:08,010
So I know we typically meet every week,

454
00:22:08,020 --> 00:22:11,810
but next week we're gonna take a week off because I'm gonna be on an airplane.

455
00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:14,160
You know, that would be for like a really little kid.

456
00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:17,250
And then I'm going on vacation for an older child, right?

457
00:22:17,349 --> 00:22:20,300
So you just, you get it out in the conversation.

458
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,760
This not only makes sure that the child knows

459
00:22:22,770 --> 00:22:24,660
what to expect and there are no surprises.

460
00:22:24,670 --> 00:22:28,489
It also gives the child the opportunity to ask questions

461
00:22:28,989 --> 00:22:31,939
or process it or talk about it or share a feeling.

462
00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:34,780
So by introducing it,

463
00:22:35,079 --> 00:22:38,479
you give the child permission and opportunity

464
00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:42,619
to deal with it in whatever way they need to, that's very, very important.

465
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:43,579
OK.

466
00:22:43,859 --> 00:22:49,199
So to answer your question, Melanie, is it too late? End quote? No, never.

467
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,810
All right. This is my little pep talk for the moment

468
00:22:52,530 --> 00:22:55,160
for all of you, for all of you that have switched

469
00:22:55,609 --> 00:23:00,390
your alignment, adherence, right? Not that you weren't CCPT before, but

470
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,979
you were a Frankenstein version of it probably, I don't mean that in a mean way,

471
00:23:04,989 --> 00:23:05,439
it's just

472
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,719
we incorporate all these different things and think that it's child-centered.

473
00:23:08,729 --> 00:23:11,420
And when you finally realize what child-centered truly looks like you're like,

474
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:13,569
whoa, I was not doing child-centered, right?

475
00:23:13,819 --> 00:23:14,300
So

476
00:23:14,459 --> 00:23:18,479
whatever your Frankenstein CCPT approach was before and you've said, OK,

477
00:23:18,489 --> 00:23:18,969
you know what?

478
00:23:18,979 --> 00:23:20,530
No, I am. I am Hoy

479
00:23:20,719 --> 00:23:21,489
Hoy

480
00:23:21,819 --> 00:23:22,369
in,

481
00:23:22,380 --> 00:23:24,839
I'm going to adhere and I'm going to make

482
00:23:24,849 --> 00:23:27,180
sure that I am only child-centered moving forward.

483
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:28,900
OK? When that happens,

484
00:23:30,060 --> 00:23:32,170
it means that what happened before

485
00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:35,729
is kind of like reset.

486
00:23:36,199 --> 00:23:37,589
So what I mean by that is

487
00:23:37,780 --> 00:23:42,079
however many sessions you had does the rapport and the relationship still exist?

488
00:23:42,089 --> 00:23:43,719
Yes, but it has to shift.

489
00:23:43,839 --> 00:23:46,310
Does the work that took place still

490
00:23:46,439 --> 00:23:50,869
there? Is it still there? And does it still have meaning? Yes, but it has to shift.

491
00:23:51,170 --> 00:23:55,550
So everything that happened leading up to the I'm all in on child-centered,

492
00:23:56,270 --> 00:24:01,800
it still was valuable. It still was helpful but it was kind of like the 1.0

493
00:24:02,250 --> 00:24:03,770
and then 2.0

494
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:04,819
Is when

495
00:24:05,229 --> 00:24:08,729
the CCPT relationship is formed when the CCPT

496
00:24:08,739 --> 00:24:13,010
skills are used when the CCPT outcomes are observed?

497
00:24:13,020 --> 00:24:14,849
So does it take longer

498
00:24:15,209 --> 00:24:19,630
than if you would have started from day one CCPT all in? Yes,

499
00:24:20,540 --> 00:24:22,680
because there's a reset that has to take place.

500
00:24:23,199 --> 00:24:26,390
There's essentially a, we have to rebuild momentum.

501
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,650
We have to re-establish what this is like.

502
00:24:28,689 --> 00:24:32,949
We have to get comfortable in this new approach to what we're doing together.

503
00:24:33,060 --> 00:24:37,119
It doesn't dismiss or devalue what's already happened,

504
00:24:37,739 --> 00:24:39,800
but it certainly kind of has to

505
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:43,089
get back on the track and get some momentum built again.

506
00:24:43,459 --> 00:24:47,479
So does it mean that it takes a little bit longer and it's a little bit slower? Yes,

507
00:24:48,079 --> 00:24:51,959
but it doesn't mean that it won't work. CCPT works. We know this.

508
00:24:52,439 --> 00:24:54,119
So as soon as you're all in,

509
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,040
then the sooner the child will make the gains that we're hoping for.

510
00:24:58,670 --> 00:25:01,069
And then my final thought, Melanie is

511
00:25:02,660 --> 00:25:06,380
essentially what is going on. So the why matters.

512
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:07,199
My, my,

513
00:25:07,290 --> 00:25:09,339
all my staff at the center keep telling me they're gonna

514
00:25:09,349 --> 00:25:11,420
make "the why matters" bumper stickers every time I say it.

515
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:13,439
Now it's all I think about is people driving around with

516
00:25:13,449 --> 00:25:15,630
hashtag the why matters on the back of their cars.

517
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,290
So the why matters,

518
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:21,650
it's really, really important for you to keep in mind

519
00:25:22,479 --> 00:25:23,900
the child has to

520
00:25:24,130 --> 00:25:25,739
figure out how to trust you

521
00:25:26,770 --> 00:25:30,630
and don't beat yourself up about that. Don't feel guilty, don't feel ashamed.

522
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,300
Don't feel like you royally screwed something up. That's not

523
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:36,189
what you should feel and that's not what I'm trying to make you feel.

524
00:25:37,219 --> 00:25:38,609
But the point is

525
00:25:39,209 --> 00:25:42,199
CCPT is predicated on relationship

526
00:25:42,599 --> 00:25:45,520
and trust and safety and security.

527
00:25:46,510 --> 00:25:51,280
And when things have felt confusing and when things have felt unpredictable

528
00:25:51,390 --> 00:25:54,969
and when things have felt ungrounded in theory,

529
00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:57,640
it's hard to establish those things for a child.

530
00:25:58,709 --> 00:26:00,569
But as soon as you're all in,

531
00:26:00,750 --> 00:26:03,810
it's easy to establish trust and relationship.

532
00:26:04,739 --> 00:26:08,140
So what happens is the child kind of has to go.

533
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,069
OK. Maybe. Now I can trust this. Now, I can trust the therapist.

534
00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:16,719
Now, I can trust this process. Now, I can trust the work that I need to do.

535
00:26:16,849 --> 00:26:17,180
Ok?

536
00:26:17,189 --> 00:26:19,560
Now we have the relationship that feels safe and

537
00:26:19,569 --> 00:26:21,430
secure enough that I can do this work.

538
00:26:22,890 --> 00:26:26,040
The why is the trust and the relationship has to be

539
00:26:26,050 --> 00:26:30,219
there and when we are clinically and theoretically all over the place

540
00:26:30,729 --> 00:26:34,560
the child can't trust us and they can't form an effective relationship with us.

541
00:26:34,569 --> 00:26:35,380
It's too hard.

542
00:26:36,290 --> 00:26:37,819
They never know what to expect.

543
00:26:38,250 --> 00:26:39,780
They never know what's predictable.

544
00:26:39,790 --> 00:26:42,469
They never know what's steady, they never know what's stable.

545
00:26:43,420 --> 00:26:44,349
It's too hard.

546
00:26:45,369 --> 00:26:46,119
So,

547
00:26:46,219 --> 00:26:48,839
I hope that that's helpful, Melanie. And thank you so much for writing.

548
00:26:48,849 --> 00:26:51,800
I think that's gonna be really, really beneficial for a lot of people.

549
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,310
All right. Final question.

550
00:26:53,959 --> 00:26:56,959
Oh, man, you might get out in a 30 minute one. This is exciting.

551
00:26:57,050 --> 00:26:58,930
All right, Julia from California.

552
00:26:59,650 --> 00:27:03,010
Oh gosh, I talk about this all the time. So I'm glad that this came in too,

553
00:27:03,829 --> 00:27:09,530
I have a few kids that will say, don't look at me or don't talk in sessions.

554
00:27:09,859 --> 00:27:13,770
I want to respect their request while also showing them that I'm still engaged.

555
00:27:13,780 --> 00:27:15,369
How might you handle this and what's your

556
00:27:15,380 --> 00:27:17,270
interpretation of why this may be happening?

557
00:27:17,420 --> 00:27:20,810
We just talked about this a little bit on the Collective call last week,

558
00:27:20,819 --> 00:27:23,150
which I find so fascinating because this is something

559
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,609
that I think we all not only deal with,

560
00:27:25,619 --> 00:27:28,810
of course, but then sometimes it's like, well, what am I supposed to do?

561
00:27:29,189 --> 00:27:31,010
So let's tease this apart a little bit.

562
00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:34,229
So why do I think this may be happening? Julia

563
00:27:34,449 --> 00:27:35,790
power and control

564
00:27:37,319 --> 00:27:38,140
there?

565
00:27:39,060 --> 00:27:41,079
It's very difficult for a child to come into

566
00:27:41,089 --> 00:27:43,900
an environment where the relationship is totally different.

567
00:27:44,420 --> 00:27:47,359
The rules are totally different, the expectations are totally different

568
00:27:48,890 --> 00:27:50,709
and everything they know about the world gets

569
00:27:50,719 --> 00:27:52,630
turned on its head in a child-centered playroom

570
00:27:54,540 --> 00:27:55,390
that

571
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,030
gives kids

572
00:27:57,949 --> 00:28:02,010
authoritative, dictatorial power and control if they need or want it.

573
00:28:03,329 --> 00:28:06,579
They don't get to boss anybody around. They don't get to order anyone around.

574
00:28:06,589 --> 00:28:11,349
They don't get to dictate things that happen with anyone anywhere in their lives.

575
00:28:12,089 --> 00:28:14,890
So if they realize that they have the freedom to do that in

576
00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:18,130
the playroom and that's one of their issues and one of their needs,

577
00:28:18,140 --> 00:28:19,369
they're going to capitalize.

578
00:28:20,739 --> 00:28:23,359
So don't look at me and don't talk to me.

579
00:28:23,810 --> 00:28:26,569
It's very much power and control. Now.

580
00:28:26,579 --> 00:28:30,099
It's not necessarily rooted in power and control though

581
00:28:30,510 --> 00:28:34,359
often it's rooted in the child's discomfort

582
00:28:34,770 --> 00:28:37,849
of hearing what their experiences are.

583
00:28:38,770 --> 00:28:41,770
In other words, when we're reflectively responding,

584
00:28:42,099 --> 00:28:45,290
when we're completely present and attuned and engaged,

585
00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:47,380
when we're reflecting content back to them,

586
00:28:47,390 --> 00:28:51,170
when we're reflecting feelings back to them, it makes everything very real

587
00:28:51,540 --> 00:28:52,810
and very personal

588
00:28:53,859 --> 00:28:57,250
and sometimes kids are very uncomfortable with that.

589
00:28:58,089 --> 00:29:00,589
I don't know how I feel

590
00:29:00,790 --> 00:29:01,550
about

591
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:07,030
you being this engaged and this aware of my deepest darkest stuff.

592
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,359
And I certainly don't like you saying it out loud because then I have to

593
00:29:10,369 --> 00:29:13,560
hear it and I have to interpret it and I have to receive it.

594
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,150
I'm experiencing it in my play. But when you say it, it takes it to a whole other level.

595
00:29:19,099 --> 00:29:22,800
So often they're avoiding the discomfort or the

596
00:29:23,670 --> 00:29:27,920
it doesn't settle well with them sensations that they're experiencing

597
00:29:28,949 --> 00:29:30,010
and then

598
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,449
also another potential,

599
00:29:33,660 --> 00:29:35,229
sometimes they're unwilling

600
00:29:36,410 --> 00:29:38,229
or often they're unable

601
00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:39,510
to receive it.

602
00:29:40,489 --> 00:29:43,390
So, even when it's fully on target,

603
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,430
even when it's very accurate to their experiences,

604
00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:49,819
because often what will happen is when we

605
00:29:49,829 --> 00:29:52,069
reflect a feeling and they go stop doing that

606
00:29:52,469 --> 00:29:57,500
or don't talk to me, we, we might go, oh, maybe I totally was off base with that.

607
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:59,089
Maybe that wasn't what they were feeling at all.

608
00:29:59,099 --> 00:30:03,099
And we second gate, we second guess our response

609
00:30:04,079 --> 00:30:04,910
don't do that.

610
00:30:05,260 --> 00:30:06,829
That's usually not what's going on.

611
00:30:06,839 --> 00:30:10,180
It's usually they're unwilling or they're unable to receive it.

612
00:30:12,140 --> 00:30:14,599
It's very, very hard for a child

613
00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:15,839
to

614
00:30:16,020 --> 00:30:18,150
hear things about themselves

615
00:30:18,530 --> 00:30:20,839
when they've never had a sense of identity

616
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:23,569
when they have no emotional vocabulary,

617
00:30:24,089 --> 00:30:27,050
when they have no sense of their Externalizing

618
00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:30,239
behavior as it relates to their internalized feelings.

619
00:30:30,989 --> 00:30:33,160
When someone says it out loud to them,

620
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:34,250
it

621
00:30:34,430 --> 00:30:36,969
is very, very tricky for them to navigate often.

622
00:30:38,609 --> 00:30:39,310
So

623
00:30:39,550 --> 00:30:41,150
there's a power and control thing,

624
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,469
there's a discomfort and then there's an unwilling

625
00:30:44,770 --> 00:30:49,339
or unable component that it's just too personal for them to receive.

626
00:30:49,939 --> 00:30:53,630
All right. So Julia, what do we do with this? Right.

627
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,670
So I want to respect their request while also showing them that I'm still engaged.

628
00:30:57,989 --> 00:30:58,540
Ok.

629
00:30:58,739 --> 00:31:00,949
Well, first of all, we can't do our jobs.

630
00:31:00,959 --> 00:31:04,160
This is what we talked about in the Collective. We can't do our jobs if we're quiet.

631
00:31:05,250 --> 00:31:09,390
So I've had therapists that said, well, I thought I was being child-centered,

632
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:10,420
they told me not to talk.

633
00:31:10,430 --> 00:31:11,469
So I didn't talk.

634
00:31:11,869 --> 00:31:14,369
Don't go down that rabbit trail y'all. Yikes.

635
00:31:14,810 --> 00:31:15,550
So

636
00:31:15,819 --> 00:31:19,989
we cannot do our jobs unless we are using the skills

637
00:31:20,839 --> 00:31:24,099
that is child centeredness. It's reflectively responding,

638
00:31:24,199 --> 00:31:27,209
tracking behavior, reflecting content, reflecting feelings,

639
00:31:27,219 --> 00:31:28,699
using the four pillars,

640
00:31:29,550 --> 00:31:32,050
using our phrases, right?

641
00:31:33,219 --> 00:31:37,560
We have very specific skills that are implemented

642
00:31:37,569 --> 00:31:39,920
in sessions and they serve a purpose.

643
00:31:40,170 --> 00:31:44,280
So we can't be quiet and think that child-centered play therapy is taking place.

644
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,859
Therefore, when a child tells us not to talk, don't tell me how I feel.

645
00:31:49,869 --> 00:31:53,369
Don't say what I'm doing. Don't look at me, don't, whatever.

646
00:31:54,390 --> 00:31:56,739
We immediately reflect back to them

647
00:31:57,579 --> 00:31:59,890
that they are feeling something about that.

648
00:32:00,239 --> 00:32:00,869
So

649
00:32:01,630 --> 00:32:02,449
mhm

650
00:32:03,369 --> 00:32:05,540
You're upset that I'm saying those things to you.

651
00:32:08,189 --> 00:32:11,250
You're frustrated that I acknowledged that you

652
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:12,709
knocked the tower over.

653
00:32:14,449 --> 00:32:16,329
Hey, we still do our job.

654
00:32:16,439 --> 00:32:18,760
Now. They might go. I told you not to talk.

655
00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:20,839
Oh, you really don't want me to talk.

656
00:32:20,849 --> 00:32:23,439
So then we back off of the emotion and we go to content.

657
00:32:25,050 --> 00:32:28,270
We're gonna ramp back the intensity of our response

658
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:29,790
until they can manage it.

659
00:32:31,439 --> 00:32:35,479
So we're going to reflect a feeling that's probably not what they want you to do,

660
00:32:35,489 --> 00:32:37,599
but it's still our job to do so well.

661
00:32:37,609 --> 00:32:41,040
Then when they bristle at that, then you go to reflection of content.

662
00:32:42,079 --> 00:32:46,319
If they still bristle at that, then you go to more of an empathic grunt.

663
00:32:47,579 --> 00:32:48,699
Oh, no talking.

664
00:32:51,189 --> 00:32:53,270
All right. But you've still made a comment.

665
00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:57,380
The goal is get to a point where

666
00:32:57,589 --> 00:32:59,479
you're doing it in such a way

667
00:32:59,709 --> 00:33:01,880
and the length and the tone

668
00:33:02,140 --> 00:33:02,810
is

669
00:33:03,020 --> 00:33:05,439
aligned enough that the child will receive it.

670
00:33:06,170 --> 00:33:07,829
So what that looks like is

671
00:33:08,119 --> 00:33:10,810
you either will slow down the pace of your responses.

672
00:33:10,819 --> 00:33:13,390
So if you were responding every five seconds before

673
00:33:14,050 --> 00:33:16,339
you might go to every 10 or 15 seconds,

674
00:33:18,270 --> 00:33:19,099
or you might

675
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:20,780
slow

676
00:33:20,939 --> 00:33:21,400
the

677
00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:24,109
pace of your speaking down.

678
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:28,250
So you talk a little bit more slowly,

679
00:33:29,219 --> 00:33:30,609
see if they can handle that

680
00:33:31,420 --> 00:33:32,199
or

681
00:33:32,540 --> 00:33:34,219
you take the

682
00:33:34,339 --> 00:33:38,239
decibel of your voice down. So you go almost to a whisper.

683
00:33:38,810 --> 00:33:40,199
Oh, you don't want me to talk

684
00:33:41,420 --> 00:33:42,969
and notice that you can actually probably get

685
00:33:42,979 --> 00:33:44,719
away with that because you're no longer talking,

686
00:33:44,729 --> 00:33:45,479
you're whispering

687
00:33:46,170 --> 00:33:48,439
really subtle. Work around there. Wink.

688
00:33:49,719 --> 00:33:50,469
So

689
00:33:50,930 --> 00:33:53,780
you have to learn the ninja tricks. Y'all like to do this job.

690
00:33:53,790 --> 00:33:57,729
You, you have to figure out all kinds of little strategies and tricks. So, you know,

691
00:33:58,219 --> 00:34:00,949
I said, don't talk. Oh, well, I was whispering,

692
00:34:01,589 --> 00:34:04,329
work around. All right. But the point is

693
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,250
you have to get it back to a point where the child will let you do it.

694
00:34:09,260 --> 00:34:10,310
And here's what happens,

695
00:34:10,469 --> 00:34:11,600
you keep trying.

696
00:34:12,428 --> 00:34:13,108
So

697
00:34:13,217 --> 00:34:17,319
even if you go through all of that ramping down and they still say,

698
00:34:17,678 --> 00:34:20,559
I said, don't say one more thing,

699
00:34:21,728 --> 00:34:22,770
then you go oh

700
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:24,260
and then you wait

701
00:34:25,090 --> 00:34:27,708
and then you give it maybe 2025 seconds

702
00:34:28,770 --> 00:34:31,310
and then you whisper the smallest little thing

703
00:34:31,610 --> 00:34:33,429
and see if they don't yell at, you,

704
00:34:33,668 --> 00:34:35,208
see if they don't react

705
00:34:36,530 --> 00:34:39,429
and then if they don't, then you keep at that level.

706
00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:43,969
So every 25 or so seconds you say you whisper something really quick,

707
00:34:45,090 --> 00:34:49,909
but you're still going to verbally engage. We do not sit there silently

708
00:34:51,020 --> 00:34:54,489
and then one last thought when something like that happens,

709
00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:58,949
it's really important to explain why you're doing what you're doing to a child,

710
00:34:59,469 --> 00:35:00,120
not

711
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,239
clinically and theoretically,

712
00:35:02,439 --> 00:35:04,500
but you want them to have an understanding

713
00:35:05,090 --> 00:35:06,090
of what you're doing.

714
00:35:06,290 --> 00:35:07,199
So when they go,

715
00:35:08,370 --> 00:35:11,669
I don't want you to tell me what I'm doing. That's so annoying

716
00:35:13,090 --> 00:35:15,030
when you're tracking behavior, right?

717
00:35:15,189 --> 00:35:16,090
So then you go,

718
00:35:16,219 --> 00:35:19,729
oh you don't like it that I was mentioning that you were stacking the blocks.

719
00:35:19,739 --> 00:35:23,500
But I wanted you to know that I was paying attention and that's what I saw.

720
00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:24,149
You were doing

721
00:35:25,689 --> 00:35:27,520
same thing with reflecting content.

722
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:30,949
Oh You don't like it when I say the same thing. But

723
00:35:31,060 --> 00:35:33,850
I wanted to make sure you knew that that's what I heard you say

724
00:35:35,010 --> 00:35:36,389
with reflecting feeling.

725
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,429
Mm You wish that I would not tell you what I noticed that you feel. But

726
00:35:40,679 --> 00:35:43,719
I thought that's how you felt. And I wanted to make sure you knew that

727
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,389
they need to understand that there's a purpose

728
00:35:48,399 --> 00:35:50,389
behind it because otherwise it's just weird.

729
00:35:50,399 --> 00:35:52,350
No one in their life talks to them that way.

730
00:35:54,229 --> 00:35:56,689
So it feels awkward and uncomfortable,

731
00:35:56,699 --> 00:35:59,439
but then often it's threatening because it's so deep.

732
00:36:00,149 --> 00:36:04,199
So we have to be really intentional about giving them the explanation

733
00:36:04,739 --> 00:36:09,030
as well as reflecting back to them what's going on in that moment for them.

734
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,879
So we either reflect their content or we reflect their feeling

735
00:36:12,010 --> 00:36:12,929
and then we say,

736
00:36:13,219 --> 00:36:16,290
but that's the way I let you know that I saw how you felt.

737
00:36:17,179 --> 00:36:19,760
That's the way I make sure that I understood what was happening.

738
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:23,850
And there's the why they may not like the skill still,

739
00:36:23,860 --> 00:36:28,050
but they at least understand it better and it's not so weird and vague to them.

740
00:36:28,879 --> 00:36:32,370
All right. So Melanie Cindy Julia, thank you so much for the questions.

741
00:36:32,379 --> 00:36:34,379
I hope that that was beneficial to all of you.

742
00:36:34,510 --> 00:36:36,820
I'm always grateful for the fact that you

743
00:36:37,110 --> 00:36:42,340
write in and chat with me, brenna@thekidcounselor.com is the way to email me.

744
00:36:42,350 --> 00:36:47,250
And you can also call in 813-812-5525 if you'd like to leave

745
00:36:47,260 --> 00:36:49,719
a message for a question and I can listen that way.

746
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All right, y'all have a lovely rest of your week and great weekend.

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I'm grateful for each to every one of you. We'll talk again soon. Love you guys. Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources.

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Please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.