#284: Tips for New Writers

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Emma

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You're listening to the Beautiful Mess podcast, your cozy comfort listen, and we get a lot of questions

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from people starting on their very first novel. So in this week's episode, we're giving you all the advice

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that we wish we could time travel back and give ourselves on the day we started our first novels.

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There's so much writing advice out there, and no matter who you are, it's not all going to work for you.

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So in this episode, we'll share things to think about and consider as you plot and plan to begin a draft of

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your very first novel. And the bottom line is, you can do it, and we are here to cheer you on.

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Elsie

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Hell yeah, we love to be a cheerleader. I think that was one of our past taglines. Was like, we're your

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creativity cheerleader. And I think that's still a good one. I stand by that.

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Emma

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That's what I would like to be for people. Yes, yeah. Do I have a cheerleader personality? No, I'm not

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really that fun, but I would like to cheer you on with creativity and curiosity, for sure, because I really

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believe in them.

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Elsie

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Yes and I know I'm in a writing group now, so I know how scared, like people are on their first novel.

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And I did my first novel not that long ago, so I'm all, I remember it also, and then I've been reading

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those stats, like, have you heard this one that says, like, 80% of people feel like they want to write, they

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would like to write a book in their life. But then, like it was to me, yeah, I'm gonna butcher it, but it's like

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a very, very, very high percentage of people feel like they want to write a book. Way smaller percentage

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of people actually write even, like a first draft and finish it, and then way smaller than that, you know, all

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the other things that can happen. So it is just such a big, intimidating thing, and we understand, but it is

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so fun, like, super fun, and I think so one of our friends in our book club, her dad, writes a novel a year

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strictly for fun, and he only gives it to his family to read. And I just have to say, like, I admire that with all

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my heart.

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Emma

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I think he just did, like, his fifth one. She was, yeah, yeah. That is goals.

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Elsie

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He started the year he retired, and that is so epic. So I think that you don't have to go into it with the

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idea of publishing. And obviously, most people do, we get it. We have our own goals too, and that's fine,

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but I think that it's good to like, find your other reasons that are like, your big personal inner reasons for

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why you're doing it, and I think that helps carry you through. Because the first few years, at least for me,

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were I was crying a lot, and it was hard. It was very, very, very difficult for me to be a beginner, to

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accept myself as a beginner and to, like, get through that phase, you know? And I think that that that

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does, like, make a lot of people quit because, you know, it's hard to, like, write a whole novel and then

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read it back and be like, Oh, it's not great.

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Emma

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Yeah. You're like, whoa. I spent a lot of time on this, not that good. Okay, so we're just gonna give tips

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back and forth. And mine are basically just like things that I've that worked for me, good. I feel like we

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kind of said that in the intro. Yeah, me too. You get a lot of writing advice out there. And we're also

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gonna, at the end of this episode, talk about resources, like books, courses we've taken, and those are

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great too, because I'm not really a writing teacher. I do not consider myself that. I'm just someone who

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writes, and so I have things that work for me, and so I'm going to share those.

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Elsie

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Yeah, I consider myself a person who's read a lot of writing craft books, and I've thought, and I've taken

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a lot of courses recently. So I've thought a lot about which tips work well for me, and which tips I would

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leave behind, and which tips were, like, not quite clear to me in the beginning, you know, things like

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that, yes, but yeah for sure. We're not professional teachers, and we're just doing this for fun. I think

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everyone does that, right?

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Emma

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Yeah, well, I just also mean, like, this is kind of random, but it's just things that you know. Okay, anyway,

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so I'll say my first one if you want. Okay, okay. So my first one is, each time I've written a novel, I've only

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written three novels, is I give myself some kind of writing assignment and just make it something that's

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challenging for you. So here's the point of it. The point of it is to always be challenging yourself, and

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also, in a way, it's to distract you from the main goal, which is to just finish, because that can be kind of

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daunting. So it's like, okay, because let's imagine you were going to run a half marathon. That's a scary

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amount to run. If you don't feel like I can do it for sure, I've done it a million times, and I assume you feel

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that way about writing your first novel, because you've never written one before. So a good thing to do

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is to kind of distract yourself from the running a little bit. So if you're like, I'm going to listen to this entire

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Katy Perry album and pick out my favorite song, and you do that for part of the run, it just gives you

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something else to kind of focus on. So that's part of where this advice comes from for me. So I give

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myself something so. For an example in my second book, which is called handmade murder, which is a

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thriller, my goal was I wanted to write a very interesting and compelling villain. I wanted to write the best

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villain that I could, a villain that I believed in, a villain that I felt like I could become if I went down a

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crazy path in my mind. And so that was my goal. With it was like, let's write a really interesting villain.

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My most recent book that I wrote the wedding photographer, which what I'm calling it right now, my goal

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was to write a really, really go there all the way you should feel embarrassed about it, sex scene like

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most of the child you achieved it really, really, yeah, like, just like, No, it's not going to be like and then

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they made love. No, it's going to be and that was my writing assignment in that book. And you know,

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there's lots of other things I do in the book, lots of dialog, lots of this and that, but I just think it's nice to

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give yourself at least one, but maybe a few, depending what your how long your novel is, and part of it

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is to challenge yourself, and part of it is to distract yourself from the main goal, which is just finishing.

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Elsie

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So it's a great tip. Em, I love that. That's wonderful. Okay, my first tip is just write your first novel. So

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your first. So your first. This is what I wish I would have known when I started mine, because I spent,

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like, two years writing my first novel, and I wish I would have just known like it doesn't have to be good.

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Like it kind of can't be good. Like, maybe I don't want to say that for everyone, but for me, I wish I would

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have been able to say to myself, Hey, listen, your first novel is not gonna be good, but if you just hurry

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up and write it and you just finish, then what you can do is you can, you can get some people to read it,

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and you can learn what your strengths and weaknesses are, and then you can educate on your

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weaknesses, and you can build on your strengths. Yeah, but I feel like I, like, wasted a couple years at

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the beginning because I was just like, trying to write a good book for my first book, and like, the only

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thing I cared about is that I wanted it to be good and like it in it. In the end, it wasn't like it still wasn't,

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you know what I mean. So I wish I would have just written something fast, more unhinged.

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Emma

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Yeah, that's actually my my second one. It's the same, which is finish of first novel. So, and here's what

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I'll say about it. So two things. One, I think you should think about writing your first novel as you're

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taking an assessment. You're not even, like looking to make a finished piece of art. You're literally, like,

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taking a personality quiz. Like that's what you're doing when you finish this first novel. And you won't

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finish the personality quiz until you finish the first novel, because that's what it does, is it shows you, oh,

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I'm really good at writing dialog, and, wow, I cannot keep in one point of view. I have no idea how to

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write point of view. Like, it'll just show you so many different things, and it will probably show you your

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interest. And it's just like, it's just an assessment in my mind. And I know you think, you might think, Oh,

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what a waste of time. It's not. Writing is a long term, lifelong thing, and if you can't waste, waste, I'm

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putting it in air quotes, you can't see me waste your first novel just learning about yourself as a writer. I

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don't think you're gonna make it dude, like you're just gonna you, you have to kind of let it go. Because I

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know everyone, we all read these stories that's like, oh, it was her debut novel, and it was a number

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one New York Times bestseller. Number one, just because it's someone's debut novel doesn't mean

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that that's the first novel they ever wrote. But number two, it probably means they've been writing other

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things for a long time. And number three, if there is that one magical little unicorn in the world who just

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sat down and banged out the best book ever, the first time they ever tried, good for them. But I can

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almost guarantee that's not you. It certainly wasn't me. So yeah, don't worry about it.

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Elsie

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Like there's the people that like rewrite the same thing six times too, you know what I mean. But yeah, I

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agree. I think I wish I would have just done it and then evaluated quicker. I think that it's so helpful. So if

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you're starting off, please learn from our mistake on that one.

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Emma

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Yeah, and the other thing I'll say about finishing the first novel, and this isn't true for everyone, but it's

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true for enough people that I think it, I think of it as a general rule is a lot of times your first novel is

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somewhat autobiographical in some way, almost a touch memoir, like, there probably will be something

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about it that's very much you, and that's not a bad thing. Memoir is actually a whole category that's

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really interesting and very hard to do. And I respect it, but I also think, like, I think you almost have to

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get that out of the way before you can be other characters, before you can start to embody all these

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other characters that are probably going to come out in your work. It's like you almost have to, like, get

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this one done, you know, be yourself in the novel, first, in some way. And again, not every. Writer does

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that, but enough do it that I just think it's kind of how it goes. And so if you notice yourself doing that too

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on your first novel, don't be scared of it, because I think it's kind of like what has to happen in order to

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get going, in order to become other characters, or start to think, you know, as not yourself, is you kind

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of have to, like, open the door a little bit.

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Elsie

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Yeah, yeah. You have to try things.

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Emma

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You have to try things. So, yeah, just get that first one done. Don't worry about it.

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Elsie

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Yeah, no, that's, I think that's good advice. Okay, so mine is, like, the advice show, don't tell is, I think

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it's kind of confusing, and so I want to explain sort of, like, what it means to me now. So I think there's

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different levels to it. But the first level is like, we know that like, you're not supposed to write like, she felt

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sad. She felt sad bad, sentence, obviously. But I think that a lot of people think like the replacement is

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like her lip quivered, you know, and it's just like a little bit of like body language description instead. But I

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do think there's like another level below that, and it took me a while to understand that, like the real goal

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is for the reader to feel how your character's feeling in that moment, and to get to that point, they have

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to have, like, seeded, you know, like the seeds of the conflict have been coming all along, so that we're,

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like, dreading it already, and we're already, you know, like thinking from her perspective, like, wouldn't

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that be terrible? And we understand it, and then we can really feel like, why she feels sad when it

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happens. So I think that's what it is supposed to really mean, is like, how do you get your reader to like,

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like, how do you show them the feeling? I don't think it just means, like, body language description.

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Emma

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Yeah, I agree. I think of it. And there's so much, there's whole books on this, and we're gonna talk about

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that in the resource section. But I think of it kind of like, am I reading a newspaper story about what

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happened, the events that happened, or am I watching a movie that makes me feel like I'm in it? You

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know what? I mean? It's the difference between like it got reported on a day later, and I read the facts of

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what happened, versus I was there and experiencing it, this event that happened. You know, when

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you're writing a novel, you're doing the latter. You want your reader to experience it and not just know

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the facts of what happened to the event.

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Elsie

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Yeah, like, if you are reading a novel and you feel like you are the character. You're experiencing the full

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body immersion. I think that it should be immerse. Don't tell, not show. Don't tell. Yeah, do you know

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what I mean?

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Emma

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It should be immerse, don't tell. That's a more descriptive way to say, I agree. Okay, my next one is a

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fun one, okay? And it's to read because I do think reading is one of the ways we've become a great

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writer. And you should read diverse things. You should read everything. If you have a category you

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want to write in, you should read everything in that category. I also think like, don't just read it as as a

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normal reader, as a commoner, you also need to,I literally will type out lines from a book. When I read a

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sentence that was particularly beautiful, I write it into my notes app. If I'm like in my bed at night reading

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a book, or if I'm near my desktop, I type it out, not because I'm ever going to copy and paste it into my

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own writing, definitely not, but because the exercise makes it stick into my mind more. And I just think,

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like, I want to hear how 50 different authors describe a sunrise before I write a sunrise. One, because I

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don't want to repeat anyone. But two, I want to know all the different ways that we could do this. And so

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it's kind of like, read is the advice I'm giving, but I'm also kind of saying one layer more, which is study.

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Yeah. So read it as a reader. Get immersed, enjoy it, because reading is so fun, but also study it while

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you're in there, because that you can learn so much about sentence structure, about how to build a

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character, about how to write great dialog, how to make a reader fall in love, all of it. And you know, I

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think you should experience it, and I think you should also study it as you're reading.

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Elsie

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That's beautiful advice. I love that my next one is get really comfortable drafting unpolished. So I did not

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know this when I first started, but this is a skill that you have to develop. And for some people it is

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harder than others. Like, I'm like, a very esthetic person. I just did like my core values, and one of them

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was like beauty, like I just, I love beautiful things. I love beautiful writing. And I wanted on day one to be

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able to write beautiful writing. But I think I kind of learned that it's more like building a house where you

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have to first put up the beams, you know, pour the fun. Situation, put up the beams, put up the drywall,

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you know, and it kind of doesn't look like a house and kind of looks like for a long time. There are many

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important phases that a story needs to have before it gets that beautiful, lush esthetic veneer, at least in

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my experience. So it was very difficult for me. It still is to get comfortable just kind of writing, kind of

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plain in a way that I felt like I wouldn't enjoy reading it back, and I don't enjoy reading back my first

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drafts. I'm not I'm more. I love the I love the end of the project. I'm not as much different people love.

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I've noticed like, the beginning or the end. I love the end more, much more, because I'm like, at that

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phase of like, the paint colors and the wallpaper, and not, you know, seeing the studs. And it is very

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jarring when you have to go back and start again and see the studs again. But I think that if you can

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develop that comfort and stop worrying if, every day you're writing something, quote, unquote good,

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and just know that you're building something. You know that takes many, many phases. I think that is

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something I wish I could have been told on the first day.

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Emma

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Yeah, yeah. I think too, like, you have to know that, like, writing novels is, parts of it are like this fun

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creative endeavor, and parts of it are just work, yeah, and it has both sides to it, and it might be different

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for you than it is for another author, like some people, like, you know, you were saying you like the

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ending a lot more than the beginning part. I sort of like the what I consider like falling down the hill part,

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where you're just like writing that unhinged first draft, and you might keep parts of it, and you also might

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not, but you're kind of getting the structure in. You're getting those bones in there. It's kind of like

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putting, like the first coat of paint with the big roller where you're like, I will go it for it. And I have a

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harder time when I'm doing the little edging, and I'm like, I felt like I worked for hours today and I did a

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tiny little bit like that part is hard for me. That's the work part for me, and it's still creative and interesting,

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but it's very important, you know, because you walked into a room and you saw it painted just just with

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the roller, you'd be like, This is not done, not completed.

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Elsie

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I think everyone is gonna have parts of it that feel extremely joyful, and other parts that feel like more of

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a slog and more of a task that you just have to complete.

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Emma

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Yeah, okay, my next one piece of advice is, be a joyful student. So here's the idea number one, another

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way of saying this, the more harsh way of saying it would be, don't assume that you're good. So I think

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that's good advice, though. I think my day one self would would hurt a little, but I think it's good. I think

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so too, also. So kind of, my way that I think about this is, back in the day, I've mentioned this before, I

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wanted to pursue acting, and I took a lot of acting classes. And I did this in Missouri while I was

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finishing college. And I also did this in LA when I moved there. I did like, Groundlings classes and other

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things. And I always admired when people would show up to class and they were just joyfully learning,

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like you could tell, they just they wanted to know everything. They were curious. They wanted to know

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how other people did it, even if you could tell like, Oh, I'm not going to do it that way. They just were

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absorbing it all. And they were like, I'm going to try stuff. I'm going to embarrass myself. I don't care. It

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doesn't matter. I'm here to learn. And I think that's a great way to do anything, including writing.

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Whenever someone would show up to an acting class, or in this case, writing, and they're like, I want to

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do it perfectly. I want to be the best. I already think that I'm really, really great. Usually that person,

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maybe they would be good, probably not, but they at least wouldn't have as much fun. And a lot of

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times, I think, at least for me, my personality, I can burn out very quickly. If I'm like, I have to be good at

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this soon. That's a good way for me to give up on something, but if I show up with just an open heart

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and a curious mind, now I'm going to learn a lot, and I'm probably going to enjoy myself. So this is

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maybe advice for life. But when you show up to learn to write, don't assume you're good and just be a

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joyful student. Take classes, read craft books, try exercises, even if you think the exercise is a little bit

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dumb, who cares? Give it a try. See if you learn something. Why not?

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Elsie

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Yeah, no, I agree with that. I have done some exercises that I thought were going to be dumb, that were

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really helpful, so I think you should do the homework. Yeah, yeah. Love it. Okay, my next one is to

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invest a lot of time in ideation, so concepts, so okay, I've been taking classes for a couple of years now,

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and one of the biggest things that I noticed in my classes is that a. Lot of people are writing the same

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types of books in, like, new writer classes. And I think that there's something about it like that that feels

00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:45.000
like a welcoming or like maybe like doable type, you know what I mean? Like, there's something like,

00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:46.000
yeah, it seems like there's like, I don't want to say what they are, because you want to make it sound

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like you're putting it down. Yeah, yeah. But like, but a lot, but weirdly it seems like it's like, the same

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stories, the same type of stories. You see them very, very often. So it's just kind of interesting. So after I

00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:49.000
took this class, like to explain what like high concept means, which is pretty much just means you can

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explain the plot in one sentence, and it's like a big plot, okay, so, yeah, like just any movie, if you can

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explain it quickly and people get it, that's high concept. So anyway, after I took that, I was thinking, I'm

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gonna become a concept hoarder. I think this is like a collection that I can collect. So I have, like, my

00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:53.000
own notes app, just for concepts and just like titles and ideas. My advice for your first book is like, write,

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write whatever kind of book you want to write for your first book. Like, I think a lot of people, just like,

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already know I want to do this book for my first book, and you should just do that like I don't. I'm not

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saying you shouldn't do that, that like first idea that like grabs you and feels important, but after that, I

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think do like the mind maps. Exercise like, fill journal pages, fill notes apps and write down, like,

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challenge yourself to be like, I'm gonna write down my 10 best ideas, like, 10 novels that I wish I could

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pick up from the bookstore tomorrow, and I know I would like, immediately read them. And like, force

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yourself to do that, then force yourself to do 20. And then pick the one out of all of those ideas that is

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grabbing you the most. And I just think that's such an easy way to, like, level up your ideas. It's it like, it

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doesn't necessarily take a long time, you know, but I think that, like, a lot of people are just like, kind of

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using the first idea they have when, like, we can think of any concept in the world, you know, if we just

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like, spend a little bit more time in the journal.

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Emma

00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:06.000
I actually love so I've been researching to send out my query letter. I love reading agents manuscript

00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.000
wishlist. Just for the record, I want to be clear, I'm not saying that you should look at an agent's

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manuscript wishlist. Try to write one idea that they have on there and then just get that one agent. I

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think that that could work for you. It's probably not, but that's pretty risky. I think it's better to think of it

00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:10.000
kind of like how you're saying with mind maps. It's kind of a fun research thing. I just love seeing what

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other people kind of put on their list. Because sometimes I'm like, Oh, I don't want to read that. And

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sometimes, like, I would read that immediately. If my friend was like, I heard of this, I'd be like, yes. So

00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:13.000
it's just kind of a fun way to like, yeah, have a bunch of random ideas and different mishmash and

00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:14.000
different genres people throw together, and you're like, Yeah, I would love that. Or, oh no, that doesn't

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sound interesting to me at all. Yeah, it's fun.

00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:16.000
Elsie

00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:17.000
Like, why not keep a giant list of ideas all the time for the rest of your life. Why not?

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Emma

00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:19.000
Oh yeah, that just sounds fun and optimistic and hopeful and like I'm always gonna have something

00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:20.000
new to work on. That's part of why I love having a huge collection of books in my house that I haven't

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read yet, is it just makes me think, like my future's so bright I have all these books read. It's like the

00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:22.000
same kind of idea in a way, yeah, yep. Love it. So this is my last one, because we are each doing five.

00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:23.000
So my last one is kind of just for the novelists who are wanting to publish. Whether you want to Self

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Publish or traditional, doesn't matter, but I'll say my last bit of advice is to learn about the business of

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publishing. And this might be taking a class on self publishing. This might be taking the query letter boot

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camp class we've talked about in the past, because it's really good if you're wanting to go traditional

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publishing and get an agent. You and I are not really this way. I'll see we're very like we like business. I

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like learning about business. It's a different part of my brain from my little creative art brain, but it's

00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:29.000
definitely like a thing I'm curious about. And I think for some people, they almost view it as, like,

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business is a hindrance to art. Yeah, it's a hindrance like that. He's the Enneagram five, and he kind of

00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:31.000
has, yeah, like, a negative impulse towards learning about markets. And I think there's some arguments

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to be made. I don't think that's a crazy concept, but I'm just saying if you do, if you are a novelist who

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wants to be published, whether self published or traditional, you do need to learn about the business.

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So take a class on it and learn and be open to it, and just know that it doesn't have to impact your

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writing. It's the next. Most part of it, but also it actually might spark some creativity in you, like how I was

00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:36.000
just talking about reading agents, manuscript, wishlist, it's interesting, and it kind of sparks a bunch of

00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:37.000
random ideas. And I think if you're open to it in that way, like actually learning about the business side

00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:38.000
of an industry can kind of enhance creativity, because it's just sort of a new set of parameters or

00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.000
challenges.

00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:40.000
Elsie

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I think it's just more information to spark more ideas. Yeah, so if you learn that, like, I think when I first

00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:42.000
started making my first book, I think I, like, I took it really hard. There were someone was saying, like,

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which books aren't popular anymore, they aren't selling anymore, because there's too many. And I, like,

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took that, like, so hard, but I now I think, like, who cares? There's like, a million good ideas in the world.

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Like, literally a million, yeah, and we can. We just need one at a time. You know what I mean? And

00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:46.000
they're floating all around us all the time. So I think, expose yourself to as many different, you know,

00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:47.000
like, tastes and information as you can. And, yeah, I found the manuscript wishlist, like, when I was

00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:48.000
reading them for the first time to be like, so inspiring, yeah, as I was, yeah, just writing out, like, Oh,

00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:49.000
that's interesting. That's interesting. There's like, dozens of ideas that I hadn't really thought about

00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:50.000
before that, you know, yeah, so I think that's great advice, and learning about the market shouldn't be a

00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:51.000
threat, because, like, even if, like the witch book example, even if the book of my heart was a witch

00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:52.000
book, you can still make that happen. You can still make that happen. It just means it's a little bit more

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challenging. For you, and that's fine, too. But when you want to know that, I mean, you kind of need to

00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.000
know that in the beginning, like, if you want to write in a hard category or competitive category, you

00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:55.000
should know that you're entering a competitive space and that your ideas need to be next level. Like,

00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:56.000
that's good information hub too. Yeah. Okay, my last piece of advice is your writing routine matters. So I

00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:57.000
think pursuing comfortable like ritual based writing routine, something that feels to you inviting, and as

00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:58.000
much as you can magical and like something that draws you in, where there are, like, little treats for you

00:04:58.000 --> 00:04:59.000
sprinkled throughout it is what I recommend. I think that, like a certain tea you always make before you

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start, Yeah, or like being an environment that you enjoy, like at your house, or you really prefer to write

00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:01.000
at a coffee shop, or whatever, yeah, something like that. I'll say, all my rituals, okay, and you can steal

00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:02.000
them if you like them, and will, yeah, and but do find rituals for you? I like my main point is, this is your

00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:03.000
time, and the more wonderful you make it for yourself, the more you'll want to do it right, like it shouldn't

00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:04.000
feel like checking boxes, or like, light torture, like, that's not good if it feels that way, keep trying more

00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:05.000
routines, because also, there are dozens of different routines that work for different people, you know.

00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:06.000
And I tried a bunch of them before I found what worked for me. Okay, so I wake up early morning. I do a

00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:07.000
before my kids wake up. Situation. So I wake up, I let out my dogs, I make my coffee. It's the same

00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:08.000
every morning I turn on the fireplace, which we have an electric fireplace in our living room, so I just

00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:09.000
click that button and I even I do everything the same every day, like the coffee table has to be clear.

00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:10.000
Can't deal with visual clutter. Yeah, when I'm about to work, I turn on the same lights and turn and keep

00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:11.000
the same ones off, like, it's like, and I think that having it where it's like a ritual, where it's the same

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:12.000
every time is actually like, there's some kind of psychological stuff in there. And then for each book, I

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have a playlist. And making, for me, making a playlist is like, a major way to bond with my project. So I

00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:14.000
make a big mood board, which I just made on Canva. I just saved pictures from Pinterest into a folder,

00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:15.000
and then put them in Canva and made a big collage, and then I print them out or and I keep them on

00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:16.000
my phone. I usually actually look at it on my laptop. And then I listen to my playlist a lot of times, and I

00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.000
like to have songs for certain parts of the book. So if you have like different character POVs, give them

00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:18.000
each their own song, like their own mood song, or if you have like different like timelines, or, you know,

00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:19.000
just different sections where it's very different moods than have a song for each one. And for me, I

00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:20.000
really only needed to have one song for each like task or each vibe, I guess. And yeah, for my first

00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:21.000
novel, I did listen to those songs hundreds of times. Like it is insane how many times I listened to the

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but they became like this, like mental and emotional trigger where I could. Get into, like, the vibe that I

00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:23.000
wanted more quickly. And also I would use them if I, like, take a walk, or if I'm on an airplane or

00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:24.000
something. And I just want to, like, think of ideas. Just think about it. And then my other ritual is, I like to

00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:25.000
do rewards. I think I'm a carrot dangling in front of me, girly, and that is just my life better than a stick,

00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:26.000
uh huh. So, yeah, I like to celebrate like milestones, even with just like a dinner, like, or, you know, like, I

00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:27.000
think like saving a bottle of champagne for like certain milestones. That kind of thing is good, whatever

00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:28.000
works for you. But rewards are good. My last one is I make these big journals for every single book,

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and I just like starting a new journal is like a keystone of my personality, so I will always be starting a

00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.000
new journal. So it's not hard for me to do this, but yeah, I have a big it's kind of, it's more of a

00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:31.000
sketchbook, but for every single journal, and then inside of it, it has, like, pictures of the characters, has

00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:32.000
all my outlining I like, I kind of enjoy looking back on it later and seeing, like, what my early ideas were

00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:33.000
and how they changed over time. So, yeah, I think make yourself a journal, make yourself a playlist,

00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:34.000
and have, like, a certain I tried the candle thing. Some people, like, have a certain candle that didn't do

00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:35.000
it for me, but like that, obviously that makes sense. It's like, anything that gives you a sensory tea or

00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:36.000
coffee is kind of a scent, too. Yeah, I love it.

00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.000
Emma

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I know it's part of the experience of it.

00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:39.000
Elsie

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Yeah, it's magical. And just remember that, like your happiness matters, and so try to make it magical

00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:41.000
for yourself.

00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:42.000
Emma

00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:43.000
I love it. Okay, next we are going to talk about a few resources. So these are books courses we've

00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:44.000
taken anything like that. So I just have two books that I wanted to talk about. So I'll go first, because I

00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:45.000
think you have more. Earlier, we were talking about the advice, Show, Don't Tell, which I think calling it

00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:46.000
immerse, don't tell, is I love. But anyway, this book is called Show, don't tell, and it's by Sandra girth.

00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:47.000
And here's a couple things I love about it. I felt like it helped me understand this. Because, like you

00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:48.000
were saying, I feel like this is very common advice, but if you just get the surface level of it, it's not

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enough. You want to really understand what people are saying with this. And I felt like this really helped

00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:50.000
me understand it on another level, this book, also, this book is, like part of writer's guides. So she has

00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:51.000
other ones. They're very short. Ooh, I love a very short resource book, usually to me, what it signals is

00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:52.000
they're not going to tell me a lot of stories about themselves. They're just going to tell me the

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information. And so follow me in the mood for a story like you know, especially if I'm learning from a

00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:54.000
writer that I admire like Margaret Atwood, you don't even need to teach me. Go ahead and just tell me

00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:55.000
stories about your life. Like, yeah, but there's other times I'm like, no, just give me the information. I only

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have my kids nap time to do this over. I don't have time for any any fluff. Go ahead and just give me the

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information and then the exercise, and I'm going to do it. And so I really like this series because they're

00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:58.000
they're pretty short, and to the point. As soon as I was reading this one, I was like, I love this. This is

00:05:58.000 --> 00:05:59.000
helping a lot. It has exercises throughout, so I bought some of the other ones in the series. And the next

00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:00.000
one I'm going to do is called point of view, and it's supposed to teach you about the different points of

00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:01.000
view, when they're useful, when you should use them, when you should not use a certain point of view.

00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:02.000
And I feel like that's one thing that I would like to explore more in my own writing, so I'm doing that one

00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.000
next. Nice okay. And then the last thing I wanted to recommend is specific to Romance Writers. So if

00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:04.000
you have any interest in writing romance, I highly recommend Romancing the beat. It's a very short

00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:05.000
again, and it's it's kind of like a beat sheet. It gives you an idea of how to structure your plot. So you

00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:06.000
need this section, you know, you need the meet cute. I feel like a lot of people know what that term

00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:07.000
means, even if you don't write romance. So yeah, the point where they meet and they fall in line in the

00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.000
hall, and then they, yeah, and then they and then there's, you know, there's just different beats that you

00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.000
do. And I think it can be very good if you're writing, especially something genre specific. Know what the

00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:10.000
beat sheet could be in your genre and just follow it, and then you might end up deviating from it. You

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:11.000
might end up tweaking your plot so it doesn't quite fit exactly. That's fine, but I think if you just know the

00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.000
big picture of it, I think that can help so much, and it just gives you a jumping off point. It also, like, gives

00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.000
you right away, like, oh, the weakest part of my story, I don't have a dark night of the soul. You know,

00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:14.000
that's something in romance. I need that, or grand gesture. A lot of people know what that is, because

00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:15.000
it's in a lot of rom coms. You need one. You need some version of it. So you need to know what yours

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:16.000
is. And if you don't have one, you need to be thinking about that. Like, why don't I have one? Do I not?

00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:17.000
I'm not leading to a point where they're going to have to make a decision anyway. So Romancing the

00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:18.000
beat I found very helpful, and it's very fun. It's very quick, and she uses lots of ridiculous examples, and

00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:19.000
she has playlists throughout. So it's really fun.

00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:20.000
Elsie

00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:21.000
Love it, yeah, no. I just read it recently because I'm trying to do a romance subplot on my second novel.

00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:22.000
And it is. It's really short and easy to read, so definitely check that out. You could read it in an afternoon.

00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:23.000
It's like, super short. It's almost like a panda. I agree. I think they I think that craft books The shorter the

00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:24.000
better, because you are there for a reason to learn. And yeah, okay, so I have a few books that really

00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:25.000
helped. The first one is writing the breakout novel. It is by Donald mass, and he is literary agent. And

00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:26.000
this book was written, I think, before the year 2000 and I would have sworn it was written yesterday. It's

00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:27.000
so timeless. Yeah, it's so timeless, like it was, for sure, for me, the best craft writing book that I've read

00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:28.000
so far. And one thing I loved about it is that he spends a lot, because he's a literary agent, he spends a

00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:29.000
lot of time talking about, like, what is bad about new writers writing, and like, what comes off as like,

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like, green, you know, like, and he really explains it. And it was, like all stuff I was doing, so I was, like,

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able to learn from that, and it was extremely helpful. And he just had the greatest book suggestions. So

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every time I look in my library and I see, like a weird book where, like, with a weird cover, and just like, I

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always know it was from his suggestion in this book I love, because He was kind of just like naming out,

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like all of the best sellers of, like, the 80s and 90s. So it was a lot of books that I wasn't ever exposed to,

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or maybe wouldn't be exposed to now. So it was very exciting, like he talks about, like the Sisterhood of

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the Traveling Pants, like, over and over and over throughout the book, and that's what look you hear

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about now. So it was, I really enjoyed that part of it. And the second book I learned a lot from was story

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genius. I think that the thing that's really good about that book is the whole like character misbelief

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thing. It's just a way to give your character a really clear, good transformation and like a backstory. And

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one of the things I liked about this writer is that she explains like, what is good about backstory a lot,

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because in a lot of books, they discourage, like, people just kind of like, commonly discourage

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backstory in writing classes. I think it's more for the beginning of a novel than in general. And I think

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people take it as, like, backstory is bad, but backstory can be great, and this book helped me

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understand, like, where it's useful and what it should be doing and that's the point of it.

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Emma

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The backstory can be a lot of telling, and I think that's why it can be discouraged. But here's the thing, if

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you don't know your character's backstory, then you don't know your character, so maybe it will never

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even come up in the book, but you need to, like, know what it is, and maybe even written some scenes

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that you're not planning to use of, like how they would behave, what they would have done in this

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situation, and like where they've come from, because otherwise, how do you know they're how they're

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going to behave? Now you know, you just don't know them. It's a similar thing. They teach you this a lot

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when you learn acting. I was just gonna ask you to tell very similar the thing about, like, what were you

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doing just before that? Yeah, like, I had this acting teacher. He was very intense, and I loved him, but he

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was, he was very intense, and it was a little intimidating at times. And when you would get up to do your

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scene, and these were, like, cold readings, so well they weren't cold because you you could read them

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right before so you had 10 minutes to prepare. So 15 minutes, whatever. So we would get up to to

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work, and he would sometimes stop you, maybe right before you started or during the scene, and he

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would say, what were you doing right before this? And if you did not have the answer to what your

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character was doing right before this, or it would, you know, it wasn't always that question. It would

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maybe even be like, did this character graduate college? Was this character popular in high school?

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Like, just random, and if you didn't know the answer to it, or if you couldn't figure it out quickly because

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you you knew your character, then he would have you sit back down. I love it, yeah. And it wasn't. It

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was an exercise in knowing, you know, who is this person. So when you're writing a character, if you

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don't know, you know, like their birth order, their Enneagram, these are things that I fill out for each of

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my characters. When I start, it's like, what's their Enneagram? What's their star? Oh, hell yeah. Were

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they popular in my Enneagram? What's, you know, like, just random stuff, what are their hobbies?

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What's their financial situation? What was their parents financial situation when they were raising them?

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Anything that could inform how they're going to behave now, or what motivates them now? And you

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may not ever tell any of that in your book, but you need to know it.

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Elsie

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Yeah, agree. I'm actually really jealous of your life experiences from that era. It sounds like you learned

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so much.

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Emma

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Yeah, his name was Scott Arthur Allen. He's passed away. Oh, yeah, he was a wonderful acting

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teacher and actually a wonderful person. Oh, he's really lovely man, but he would, he would make me

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sit down sometimes. Anyway, I've interrupted you.

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Elsie

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No, no, I'm really glad that was great. Okay, the last book that I learned a lot from and recommended is

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another really, really short one, and it is called, Write your Novel from the Middle by James Scott Bell.

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This book, it's very short, and I will say straight up, the audio book is bad. You do need to order the

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paper book. That's fine, though. Sometimes I like, for my craft books, for it to be a paper book, that way

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I can, like, flip back and like, see something I highlighted two days ago. Or, you know, I don't know, I

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feel like I get a little more lost with the audio book, but I have more time to listen anyway. Yeah, it's just

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a little bit of a hard performance by today's audiobook standards. But anyway, it was a great book, and

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I, I think that it probably helped me, like, for such a short, little book, and one that, like, people don't,

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you know, bring up as much, it helped me a lot, because you know when people, when they talk about

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the saggy middle, and a lot of people say, like, your story falls apart in the middle. Like this book

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teaches you how to plan your middle, your they call it the mirror moment in this book. But just like your

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your midpoint, your transformation moment, you plan that, and then you plan around it, and I did do that

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for my novel, and a lot of a lot of times when people say their favorite scene, they say the midpoint

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scene. So I really love that, and I feel like I have this book to thank for it, and it's just like a short little

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book. So if you feel like you have more to learn about structure, I definitely recommend it. Okay. And

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then as far as courses, so courses are hard because I feel like I've learned something valuable in every

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single course I took. But some courses just met me in a better moment. Some of them are very

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expensive, to where I feel kind of apprehensive to recommend it, you know. And some of them are, a

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lot of them are very short, where you could do it in, like, one night, which is, you know, good too. But

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then, like, how do you expect that to be the best course you ever took? You know? So anyway, the best

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course that I I would say, like, if you want to learn about writing the books I recommended, I think the

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books are a little bit better than courses, just because you, like, get deeply into it. But if you're going to

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take a course, try to choose one that where you get to submit writing and get feedback, or where it

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offers you some kind of, like, one on one coaching or something like that. Because I feel like that's one

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of the really valuable things you can get from courses, and if not, it's like it's pretty much just a book,

00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.000
right on video. So Right? What's the difference? But yeah, the best courses that I took were actually not

00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:44.000
writing courses. It was an industry course. So the author's publishing playbook, which is by Carly

00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:45.000
waters, who is also a literary agent, is a really valuable, good. Course, if you want to just learn what the

00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:46.000
expectations of the traditional publishing industry are for 2026 and you just want to understand that.

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You want to know, like, where exactly is the bar set? That's something that I was, like, really confused

00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:48.000
about in the beginning, because we've all like read, we've all read books that weren't good from the

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bookstore, right? So it's hard, it's hard to accept that, like, your book has to be amazing for it to, like, get

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through, to be a published book. But actually kind of does, and it is true, and this book, like, helped me

00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:51.000
explain why, or helped me understand why. And like, really learn about the industry, learn about, like,

00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:52.000
the functions of all the different parts of it, and yeah, and then another place that I've taken a lot of

00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:53.000
courses from that have been really helpful is Lauren K writes.com and she has a lot of mini courses.

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She has a lot of like, you can like, for like, $20 or $30 you can watch, like, a zoom call where she's, like,

00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:55.000
interviewing a literary agent or like, things like that that are really helpful. Also, it's a bit of a community.

00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:56.000
Some of the courses do, yeah, interact with other students, and that can be really helpful. Yeah? And

00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:57.000
we both did her query boot camp course, which is great and really helpful. Querying is a whole thing,

00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:58.000
and I personally would rather learn it from a course like this, where they hold your hand, than from like

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Reddit. So I think it was worth it 100% so yeah, that is all. That's my stuff. But yeah, if you're starting

00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:00.000
just like, don't quit. Just keep going. Yeah. And email us. Email us if you need someone to give you a

00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:01.000
quick little pep talk. I'll do it.

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Emma

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I will. We will. Okay. Our hot take this week is from Mary, and she says romanticizing an everything

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shower is a ridiculous influencer trend. It's a shower. I don't know if that's how Mary would do the voice.

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Elsie

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I don't know if we can actually debate this, or if you're going to take the same side as me, but I'm going

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to give a hard disagree.

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Emma

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Okay, first, we need to start with the premise. What are we talking about with the everything shower?

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Elsie

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So what she means I've been off social media for a year, so what she means is, on Tiktok or Instagram,

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there will be people who make a whole video about their shower routine, and they like, you know, it

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starts with, like, lighting a candle. And there's people that have, like, the little towel warmer and certain

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types of products, not a bath. Yeah, there's both okay, because shower is kind of where you wash your

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hair, right, right? And bath is more like where you relax and read a book, yes. So I think they have

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different functions, but yeah, like, you know, showing the products. This is a really good type of content

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for a sponsored post, probably. And then, yeah, they just show what all is good. And then I don't know,

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I've watched videos like this. I actually don't think it's that interesting of content to watch. So it's mostly

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about the products. Or, like, how to have a better routine, like how to how to get, like, really smooth

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skin, or really, like, a lot of people you know, make videos about, like, how to grow your hair longer. I

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don't know stuff like that. Okay, sorry, so do you need more information before you can make your

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decision.

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Emma

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I mean, I guess I'm kind of with Mary based on this. It's just a shower. Just a shower. I don't know.

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Okay, well, I can agree that it's maybe not that exciting to watch, but I cannot agree that it's not that

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exciting to do because I keep taking a shower and Okay, so here's the thing, if I have, like, half empty

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shampoo, half empty old body wash, old razor, you know, face masks I'm using up from last year. But

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what a big change. If I like, have things about it that I'm excited to try. So I think it can be, like, very

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romantic I did one time to some friends made me one of those. I don't know what it's called, but it's kind

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of like smelly potpourri that you hang from your shower. So it's like, kind of behind the water, like a

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steamer, I guess. I don't know what it is, it's almost like a little wreath, or like a giant mistletoe, okay?

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Like eucalyptus, yeah, okay, yeah. And I loved it. I kept it up until it was like falling apart in the shower,

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because it was just smelled great every time, like something about the steam would almost kind of

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activate it. It was nice. I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm not with Mary. No, I don't know. I do love a

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shower. I think it's not ridiculous. I'm just gonna say it. I think it's cool. I think it's cool. If you make your

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shower such an event. I like romanticizing everyday life. I am kind of for that, yeah. But if it's like, Oh, I

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feel a lot of pressure to make my routine something that it's not, it's like, okay, yeah, don't do that. But if

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it's like, oh, my life's a little bit mundane, because all of our lives are a little bit mundane, and I'm just

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gonna make it fun. And I'm like, Yeah, you should definitely do that. That's you should definitely do that.

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So I don't know. I guess I need more information on what Mary's take is.

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Elsie

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I don't know. I should not make me miss social media, though. I'll say that. I think if you can find ways

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to, like double or triple, enjoy things that you already have to do in life, you should find those ways.

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Emma

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Yeah, I agree.

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Elsie

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But whatever, I don't feel that. I don't feel that hot about it. Okay, we're gonna toss it over to Nova for a

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joke or fact with Nova. Hey, Nova, what do you have for us this week?

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Nova

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Another joke.

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Elsie

00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:52.000
A joke. Okay, we're ready.

00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:53.000
Nova

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What kind of tree can you hold in your hand?

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Elsie

00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:56.000
Ooh, no, I don't know what?

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Nova

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A palm tree.

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Elsie

00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:00.000
Nice. Thank you so much for listening. So our next episode is going to be a beauty. It's called midlife

00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:01.000
crisis but make it fun. I mean, amazing, right? Amazing, right.

00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:02.000
Emma

00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:03.000
We should save it as a title for our book.

00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:04.000
Elsie

00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:05.000
So we will be back next week with our midlife crisis stories. Thank you for listening. If you are writing

00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:06.000
your first novel, email us anytime for real. We're so proud of you and we're cheering you on you.