Skunk Baxter: Hostage Negotiations in the Studio

Cory Wong
00:01:19
What's happening?
Cory Wong
00:01:20
Welcome to Wong Notes podcast.
Cory Wong
00:01:21
I'm your host, Cory Wong.
Cory Wong
00:01:23
I'm stoked today.
Cory Wong
00:01:24
I'm stoked today for a lot of reasons.
Cory Wong
00:01:26
Number one, we got Skunk Baxter on the podcast.
Cory Wong
00:01:30
Absolute Ledge of Legends, Steely Dan, Doobie Brothers, many more.
Cory Wong
00:01:37
Also now, like working some government job, some like secret thing he had to like get on a different computer because like the government wouldn't let him do this podcast on whatever, you know, app we're trying to do it on.
Cory Wong
00:01:50
So it must be some sort of important job.
Cory Wong
00:01:53
Look it up.
Cory Wong
00:01:54
I don't know.
Cory Wong
00:01:55
Anyway, Skunk's a dope guitar player, incredible tones, legendary solos, infamously many one take solos that are some of the top solos we've ever heard.
Cory Wong
00:02:07
Why else am I stoked?
Cory Wong
00:02:08
I'm on tour right now.
Cory Wong
00:02:09
First week of tour, it's going great.
Cory Wong
00:02:12
If you're on the east coast or in the Midwest, you gotta come check it out.
Cory Wong
00:02:16
Got a 10 piece band.
Cory Wong
00:02:17
Got my friend Mark Lethierry joining us on guitar too.
Cory Wong
00:02:20
It's a nice guitar tour.
Cory Wong
00:02:22
Got the band couch opening up.
Cory Wong
00:02:25
We're having some fun out here.
Cory Wong
00:02:27
Okay, come check it out.
Cory Wong
00:02:29
Come say hi to us.
Cory Wong
00:02:31
We'll see you out there.
Cory Wong
00:02:31
Hey, let's get to it.
Cory Wong
00:02:32
Skunk Baxter.
Cory Wong
00:02:37
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00:02:39
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00:03:21
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00:03:41
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00:03:49
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00:03:57
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Cory Wong
00:03:58
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Cory Wong
00:03:58
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Cory Wong
00:03:59
All right, let's hit this episode.
Cory Wong
00:04:02
Well, Skunk, thank you so much for being on the show.
Cory Wong
00:04:04
It is a pleasure to have you with us.
Skunk Baxter
00:04:07
Well, thank you for your hospitality.
Cory Wong
00:04:09
Yes.
Cory Wong
00:04:09
I've been a big fan for a long time.
Cory Wong
00:04:11
I have lots of questions, lots of things that I'm wondering, and many of our podcast fans are wondering, and I assume you have some wisdom to impart on us.
Cory Wong
00:04:21
So I'm just going to start by asking.
Cory Wong
00:04:22
You have played with a lot of other guitar players and you've played nice with a lot of other guitar players.
Cory Wong
00:04:27
Many people have a problem playing next to another guitar player.
Cory Wong
00:04:32
I want you to impart some wisdom on those folks.
Cory Wong
00:04:35
What do we got to do here, folks, to play nice with other guitar players?
Skunk Baxter
00:04:41
Well, let's see.
Skunk Baxter
00:04:42
I mean, I guess surgeons have figured out how to do that.
Cory Wong
00:04:46
Now we're talking.
Skunk Baxter
00:04:47
Pilots have figured out how to do this.
Skunk Baxter
00:04:49
Police officers figured out how to do this.
Skunk Baxter
00:04:53
I'm not quite sure what the problem is.
Skunk Baxter
00:04:57
For me, having been a studio musician for, my God, 60 years now, playing with other guitar players is kind of the way it all works.
Skunk Baxter
00:05:10
So I never really.
Skunk Baxter
00:05:14
I've never felt the angst, I guess.
Skunk Baxter
00:05:18
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:05:19
So I would have a hard time explaining.
Skunk Baxter
00:05:22
I think there's something that I call guitar etiquette, where you always know when you go into the studio and there's four chairs and the fourth chair is empty, and the new guy comes in and sits down and starts noodling away.
Skunk Baxter
00:05:41
And as soon as there's a solo section, he'll jump in and play.
Skunk Baxter
00:05:48
And he's not listening to everybody else.
Skunk Baxter
00:05:51
And we have a word for that.
Skunk Baxter
00:05:53
In the south, they call it bless your heart.
Skunk Baxter
00:05:55
In the studio, we call it, hey, man, I really dig what you're trying to do.
Speaker C
00:06:04
I like that.
Skunk Baxter
00:06:05
So I would posit that the whole idea of music, unless you are specifically a solo artist on whatever instrument you are, is the delight, the magic, the chemistry of interacting with other musicians.
Skunk Baxter
00:06:26
So why not?
Skunk Baxter
00:06:27
And the other thing is, shut the hell up.
Skunk Baxter
00:06:31
Just stop playing for a second.
Skunk Baxter
00:06:33
Listen to what everybody else is doing.
Skunk Baxter
00:06:36
Because if you want to be a successful studio player, in many cases, it's what you don't play that the producer really wants.
Skunk Baxter
00:06:45
He wants you to listen to the composition itself, to try to do an assessment, and then say, okay, what does this need I mean, that's.
Skunk Baxter
00:06:57
Obviously, you may have something that's written out and you play.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:01
I remember.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:02
But I remember years ago, Gary Katz was producing A Young lady, and he called me up and said, listen, I need you to get down here to the studio.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:10
Bring all your stuff.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:13
So I said, okay.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:14
So I brought everything and said, I need you to listen to this record, set up everything, listen to this record and tell me what it needs.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:22
I listened to the record and I said, gary, it's fine.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:26
It doesn't need anything.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:28
And he said, that's why I pay you triple scale.
Cory Wong
00:07:31
I like that.
Cory Wong
00:07:32
Not getting paid by the note.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:34
Well, it's.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:35
The idea is use your judgment, experience, put your ego aside, except for the fact that you use it to make you confident and do the gig, you know?
Speaker C
00:07:47
Yeah, yeah.
Cory Wong
00:07:48
I think a lot of people are.
Cory Wong
00:07:50
The ego is more about their insecurity rather than ego and confidence.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:56
I think you have a valid point.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:58
Yes.
Skunk Baxter
00:07:58
And all of us, no matter how confident we are, all have our insecurities.
Skunk Baxter
00:08:03
But again, park it.
Speaker C
00:08:04
Yeah, well.
Cory Wong
00:08:05
And what's interesting is that once you know what you bring to the table as well, you're able to better suggest the things that you do or not do.
Cory Wong
00:08:14
I know for myself, I'm like, I'm really good at these things.
Cory Wong
00:08:18
I think these are the things that I can nail every time.
Cory Wong
00:08:21
There's the things where I feel like I have good instincts.
Cory Wong
00:08:23
I feel like you're better in this department.
Cory Wong
00:08:25
Why don't you take this?
Cory Wong
00:08:26
I'll take this.
Cory Wong
00:08:28
And then it's a.
Cory Wong
00:08:30
It's a symbiotic relationship where it's like, you do this thing better, I do this thing better.
Cory Wong
00:08:34
The whole thing's just going to be, well, yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:08:36
I mean, if I'm.
Skunk Baxter
00:08:37
When I was in sessions with Tommy Tedesco, for instance, or Tim May.
Skunk Baxter
00:08:42
Yeah, those guys are unreal readers.
Skunk Baxter
00:08:46
And when all of a sudden I noticed that there's a huge cluster of hemi semi demiquavers and fly shit, I'm looking at Tim and say, hey, man, take this.
Skunk Baxter
00:08:57
And then when it says in their 16 bars of insane Solo, Tim would look at me and go, take that.
Skunk Baxter
00:09:08
You're right.
Skunk Baxter
00:09:09
But communication, I guess that's the conclusion that we're drawing, is that communication is the most important thing.
Skunk Baxter
00:09:16
It's communicating with your peers and with your partners in crime.
Cory Wong
00:09:21
Well, one player in particular that you're playing compliments each other so much is Denny Diaz.
Cory Wong
00:09:26
All the stuff that you guys did together, how did you decide who was going to do what Parts.
Skunk Baxter
00:09:30
Part of it was what we felt most comfortable with.
Skunk Baxter
00:09:33
Sometimes Walter O'Donnell wanted, you know, or an ass to say, do you try this or you try this?
Skunk Baxter
00:09:40
And because Denny is one of those guitar players that listens.
Speaker C
00:09:45
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:09:45
Again, it's not, hey, man, I really dig what you're trying to do.
Skunk Baxter
00:09:49
It's hey, let's listen to each other.
Skunk Baxter
00:09:52
And not only is that kind of the point of it all, but maybe we'll discover some other cool things.
Skunk Baxter
00:09:59
Which we did.
Speaker C
00:10:00
Yeah.
Cory Wong
00:10:01
So for you, what do you think you bring to the table that other guitar players didn't?
Cory Wong
00:10:06
Or what was your kind of your X factor at the sessions?
Skunk Baxter
00:10:09
Well, I would posit also that there are probably like certain problems in quantum physics, certainly when you're dealing with things like singularities or the connection between different electrons in different parts of the universe, where there are a number of solutions.
Skunk Baxter
00:10:35
I think there's probably a number of great solos that could be played, for instance, on any song.
Skunk Baxter
00:10:42
And the question is, is the one that you're doing the one that everybody likes?
Skunk Baxter
00:10:49
And the everybody is the artist and the producer at that time?
Speaker C
00:10:55
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:10:56
And it may be that they have.
Skunk Baxter
00:10:59
I've had situations where they've had something in mind.
Skunk Baxter
00:11:06
And you go, okay, I will follow your direction.
Skunk Baxter
00:11:12
And then afterwards, I'd say, so if you got a minute, let me try another approach to this.
Skunk Baxter
00:11:19
And again, not to sound disingenuous, but more times than not, they'll go, whoa, okay.
Skunk Baxter
00:11:29
Never.
Skunk Baxter
00:11:30
Never looked at it that way.
Skunk Baxter
00:11:32
And that's one of the things that you should bring with you is your wealth of experience, your storehouse of memories, and use all of that focus, like a laser beam, focus all of that to try to complete the task at hand.
Cory Wong
00:11:50
Well, is there something that you find.
Cory Wong
00:11:52
So, I mean, you're a smart guy, both on and off the field in music.
Skunk Baxter
00:11:58
Oh, you're very kind.
Cory Wong
00:11:59
You got a job that's very high demand that you have.
Cory Wong
00:12:04
A lot of people put a lot of trust in you in your current day job and the same thing in the studio.
Cory Wong
00:12:10
And I think the amount of trust that people will put in you, it's one of the reasons would be you're probably paying attention to a lot of things that other people aren't paying attention to.
Cory Wong
00:12:23
Do you think there's something in life, just some general principle?
Cory Wong
00:12:27
I mean, obviously I'm steering this more towards music, cause it's a guitar podcast.
Cory Wong
00:12:30
But do you feel like there's certain things in life that you're paying attention to that others aren't Well, I think.
Skunk Baxter
00:12:37
Having a fairly deep knowledge of audio and sound reproduction, audio, understanding the physics of it, I think, gives me a little bit of an edge.
Skunk Baxter
00:12:54
For instance, when you're playing guitar behind someone, especially pedal steel, because that is an instrument that is, in a lot of ways, designed for call and response.
Skunk Baxter
00:13:12
But if you're playing behind someone, you listen to their voice, you deconstruct it frequency wise, you say, what is the best guitar setting that I can use that won't step on the vocal, that will complement it, will be able to make the statement, but will not take away from or be detrimental to the vocal performance.
Skunk Baxter
00:13:37
So you go through all the different experiences you've had, and you try to choose a sound that is specific for that.
Skunk Baxter
00:13:48
In the opposite.
Skunk Baxter
00:13:50
If you want to be heard on a record with a million other guitar players, first thing you do is grab a guitar where your two pickups are wired out of phase, because for some reason, that always cuts through.
Skunk Baxter
00:14:04
That's an old trick, but it works very well.
Skunk Baxter
00:14:07
So knowing your instrument, knowing enough about audio and how the human perceives it and how the machines record it, I think is a definite advantage.
Cory Wong
00:14:21
Well, you've also recorded with insane amount of artists.
Cory Wong
00:14:25
I mean, incredible.
Cory Wong
00:14:27
From the Dan to the Doobies, Bryan Adams, Clapton, Sheryl Crow, Joanie, Dolly Parton, all these insane people.
Cory Wong
00:14:38
Is there something insane as in, like, really?
Skunk Baxter
00:14:41
Yes, I was going to say you might want to modify that.
Cory Wong
00:14:44
Right.
Skunk Baxter
00:14:45
Questioning their mental competence, maybe?
Cory Wong
00:14:48
I don't mean.
Cory Wong
00:14:49
Yeah, I mean it in the way that I say, oh, my gosh, this is great.
Skunk Baxter
00:14:52
Of course.
Cory Wong
00:14:53
Is there something you think some of these artists are paying attention to that the average artist isn't?
Skunk Baxter
00:14:59
Well, if somebody like Dolly Parton, for instance, who is a fine musician, and Joni Mitchell, who is a fine musician.
Cory Wong
00:15:07
Absolutely.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:08
And I'm not saying that the other folks that you mentioned aren't, but I'm picking them out because of their acuity in terms of music and instrumentation.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:18
I think they listen very carefully to what you are doing as a player.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:26
And although I've never had that experience, actually, that's not true.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:32
I'm trying to think back.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:34
There have been a few sessions where people will say, I like what you're playing, but I'm not sure about the tone.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:41
You go, okay, absolutely.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:44
Let's.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:44
Now let me bring out my tone palette and we'll go through a few things and you tell me what sits well with you.
Cory Wong
00:15:52
Sure, sure.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:53
If you're gonna.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:54
I mean, I'm talking as a studio musician.
Skunk Baxter
00:15:57
Live is a Very different animal.
Cory Wong
00:16:01
Sure.
Skunk Baxter
00:16:01
And you may be asking this question in terms of live performance and I'm answering it in terms of the studio music.
Skunk Baxter
00:16:07
So I apologize if I'm going down the wrong road here.
Skunk Baxter
00:16:10
But you really have to want to satisfy please might be an interesting term, the artist.
Skunk Baxter
00:16:22
That's what you're there for.
Skunk Baxter
00:16:23
You're not there to noodle around and stroke your ego.
Cory Wong
00:16:30
Here's a question then.
Cory Wong
00:16:31
If the artist and the producer are at odds with each other, one likes one thing you did, the other likes something else and they're battling and they're asking you who do you.
Cory Wong
00:16:46
I mean, obviously you're just going to give your honest opinion.
Cory Wong
00:16:48
I would think, I would hope.
Cory Wong
00:16:50
But if it's going with the artist's decision or the producer's decision, who you going with?
Skunk Baxter
00:16:57
Well, it may be that it's time for you, me to draw on my experience with hostage negotiations or whatever, you know, other experiences I've had in the past and say, okay, what's your goal, gentlemen?
Skunk Baxter
00:17:16
Well, I, the producer, the goal may be I want this record to be radio friendly, meaning to have a familiarity that when people listen to it, they're comfortable with it and they don't.
Skunk Baxter
00:17:32
They're not fighting it intellectually or emotionally.
Skunk Baxter
00:17:36
The artist may say, I have a message.
Skunk Baxter
00:17:41
You know, I have this lyric and I want something that complements that lyric.
Skunk Baxter
00:17:47
And then you sit down and you say, okay, here's what I'll do.
Skunk Baxter
00:17:53
I'm going to open this solo with something that's very radio friendly.
Skunk Baxter
00:18:00
An example might be Ricky, don't lose that number.
Skunk Baxter
00:18:05
The opening part of the solo is straight ahead blues.
Skunk Baxter
00:18:10
You know, your basic guitar playing stuff.
Skunk Baxter
00:18:15
But then, because the lyric of the song and the meaning of the song and the attitude and the atmosphere of the song is not just a kind of a three chord blues, the question is, okay, how do you complement that?
Skunk Baxter
00:18:28
Well, okay, I'm going to look at the chord structure.
Skunk Baxter
00:18:31
I'm going to start looking at using scales that are chord substitutions, which widen the spectrum, the audio spectrum, widen the ability of that particular listener to interpret this in a number of different ways, make them take a deep breath and then you explain, okay, here's what I would do to help you accomplish what you both want.
Skunk Baxter
00:18:58
Not to say that every negotiation ends up in, you know, in a, in a resolution.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:06
But you call on your experience because you say to the artist, I know what you want to do, so I'm going to help you with that.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:15
I know what the producer wants and I'm I'm going to help you with that as well.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:19
I think that there's a solution in between.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:23
And then I'll end up with something at the end which wraps it up.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:28
Let me play it.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:30
Tell me what you think.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:31
And I would say that.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:34
And the majority of cases, everyone ends up agreeing.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:38
Number one, because you've taken the effort.
Speaker C
00:19:40
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:41
And number two, because you've actually thought it through and applied your experience and your treasure house, your toolbox to make it work.
Speaker C
00:19:51
I dig that.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:52
Oh, by the way.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:53
And also, sometimes you say, hey, wait a minute.
Skunk Baxter
00:19:56
Why do you want electric guitar on this?
Skunk Baxter
00:19:59
Let me grab this acoustic and play a solo on that.
Skunk Baxter
00:20:02
Tell me what you think.
Speaker C
00:20:04
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:20:05
And you go completely different direction.
Skunk Baxter
00:20:06
Which, since they're focused, they haven't given themselves the opportunity to widen their horizon.
Skunk Baxter
00:20:14
And they go, whoa, wow.
Skunk Baxter
00:20:16
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:20:18
Or pedal steel.
Speaker C
00:20:20
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:20:20
I would have never thought that this song would sound good with pedal steel, but wow.
Skunk Baxter
00:20:26
Okay.
Skunk Baxter
00:20:27
So again, bringing your experience and bringing your love of music and wanting to focus on satisfying the artist or the client.
Skunk Baxter
00:20:38
I know that sounds terribly business like, but.
Cory Wong
00:20:41
Yeah, no, that's.
Cory Wong
00:20:42
Yeah.
Cory Wong
00:20:42
At the end of the day, some of that is real.
Cory Wong
00:20:45
And that also goes back to the confidence side of ego, which is.
Cory Wong
00:20:50
I'm confident enough to tell you, like, I think acoustic guitar would be another option.
Cory Wong
00:20:55
And I can provide a version of that that I think is great.
Cory Wong
00:20:59
Pedal steel.
Cory Wong
00:21:00
A version of that that I think will be great for this.
Skunk Baxter
00:21:03
That's correct.
Cory Wong
00:21:04
So you brought up Ricky.
Cory Wong
00:21:06
I'm curious.
Cory Wong
00:21:07
On those steely dance sessions, what was a typical session?
Cory Wong
00:21:12
Like, how much did they tell you about the tune before you went in to track it?
Cory Wong
00:21:16
Did you.
Cory Wong
00:21:17
Was there much rehearsal?
Cory Wong
00:21:18
Was it a lot of reading?
Cory Wong
00:21:19
Was it a lot of just learning on the spot?
Cory Wong
00:21:21
Can you talk a little bit about what those sessions were like?
Skunk Baxter
00:21:23
I think it was kind of everything.
Skunk Baxter
00:21:25
The fact, though, that a lot of people maybe don't consider is for the first.
Skunk Baxter
00:21:33
Pretty much the first three Steely Dan albums, it was a band.
Speaker C
00:21:37
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:21:38
As opposed to a two songwriters, very successful songwriters, who were now crafting using what they felt as best available talent in pursuit of something.
Skunk Baxter
00:21:55
Having a band means that you have a certain amount of trust and confidence that the expertise that each person in that band has on their instrument brings constructive ideas to the project.
Speaker C
00:22:15
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:22:15
And so most of the time, it was, what do you got?
Cory Wong
00:22:21
And then you just kind of worked it out there.
Skunk Baxter
00:22:24
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:22:25
I mean, I think an interesting example would be East St.
Skunk Baxter
00:22:29
Louis toodaloo, which is a Duke Ellington song.
Speaker C
00:22:33
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:22:34
And we are all huge Duke Ellington fans.
Speaker C
00:22:39
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:22:39
And when I wasn't sure if it was Fagan or Becker who came up with the idea of, let's do this song.
Skunk Baxter
00:22:47
Let's cover this song, but let's do it with each of us picking an instrument to recreate the solo of one of the instruments in the original.
Skunk Baxter
00:23:00
Yeah, well, for slide trombone, I thought the obvious instrument would be pedal steel, because I can slide notes.
Speaker C
00:23:10
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:23:11
And I can slide notes in a much more sophisticated manner, quarterly structured on pedal steel than I can just playing slide on guitar.
Skunk Baxter
00:23:24
So I said, okay, I'm gonna pick that.
Skunk Baxter
00:23:27
Walter picked the talk box to do the original saxophone part.
Skunk Baxter
00:23:37
And that was left up to everybody.
Skunk Baxter
00:23:40
I mean.
Skunk Baxter
00:23:40
Yeah, what do you want to do?
Skunk Baxter
00:23:42
Well, that's what I want to do.
Skunk Baxter
00:23:43
Okay, then go do it.
Skunk Baxter
00:23:46
I mean, obviously, if I picked tuba, that would probably be a less than enthusiastic response.
Skunk Baxter
00:23:53
But again, you got to go with what you go with.
Cory Wong
00:23:58
Well, it's interesting because that sounds way different than kind of the documentary versions of what some of the dance sessions were like.
Cory Wong
00:24:07
But like you're saying at that point, the entire vision of the band was very different.
Skunk Baxter
00:24:12
Yeah, I think they were hiring, and I was still a studio music, so I was certainly open to anything.
Cory Wong
00:24:18
Yeah, totally.
Skunk Baxter
00:24:19
But I think that with the success of the band, they felt that it was an opportunity for them to, I guess, be able to define more specifically and definitively what they were hearing for their music.
Skunk Baxter
00:24:40
Yeah, that's fine.
Cory Wong
00:24:42
Yeah, totally.
Cory Wong
00:24:43
Now, when you go from playing, I mean, you have some of these iconic solos both on those albums and with other albums that you've played on, when it comes to playing those songs live, or if you've been a live guitar player playing on something where somebody else recorded the solo and it feels iconic to you and whoever.
Cory Wong
00:25:05
What's your approach to playing solos live or even parts live on.
Cory Wong
00:25:11
On pieces of music that.
Cory Wong
00:25:13
That feel pretty iconic?
Skunk Baxter
00:25:15
Well, and I don't think I'm alone in this, but for the most part, I've always felt that a guitar solo is a composition in and of itself.
Skunk Baxter
00:25:27
It should have a beginning, a middle, and an end.
Skunk Baxter
00:25:31
It should have a direction, a vector, and should be an adjunct to, but complementary for a piece of music.
Skunk Baxter
00:25:44
So if people feel that a particular solo which is a composition is part of.
Skunk Baxter
00:25:52
Is a subset of the original composition, that makes perfect sense to me.
Skunk Baxter
00:25:58
Yeah, I got no problem with that at all.
Skunk Baxter
00:26:02
Again, it's like if somebody puts a piece of music in front of me and says, play that, okay, fine.
Skunk Baxter
00:26:09
And if it says 16 bars of, you know, go crazy, that's fine too.
Speaker C
00:26:16
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:26:16
So I, I don't really.
Skunk Baxter
00:26:20
Again, it keeps going back to what's best for the song, what's best for the music live.
Skunk Baxter
00:26:27
If people want to hear a particular solo, fine, that's great.
Skunk Baxter
00:26:33
That means that they really liked what that other guitar player played.
Skunk Baxter
00:26:37
Yeah, fine with me.
Cory Wong
00:26:39
I dig it.
Speaker C
00:26:40
Yeah.
Cory Wong
00:26:40
Actually, I took some lessons when I was younger from John Harrington, who's guitar player and Steely Dan for the last couple decades or something, and he said, oh, yeah, my approach is that I'm going to pay homage to the original.
Cory Wong
00:26:53
If there's some iconic lines or things that kind of ground and checkpoint the solo, I'm going to play those.
Cory Wong
00:27:01
But I'll also just kind of play other stuff that's in the same spirit of it.
Cory Wong
00:27:06
I thought that was an interesting approach as well.
Cory Wong
00:27:08
Just kind of an in between.
Skunk Baxter
00:27:10
Well, I think it's logical and it also makes some sense because, I mean, I've had situations where in Japan, for instance, there are some folks that are very focused, shall we say.
Skunk Baxter
00:27:25
Yeah, why did you play a B flat in transitioning to the C sharp instead of a B in that solo?
Skunk Baxter
00:27:39
So some.
Skunk Baxter
00:27:39
There are a few folks that are obsessed.
Cory Wong
00:27:42
Yeah, totally.
Skunk Baxter
00:27:44
It's like they'll come up and say, this picture of your Baxter Caster has this switch.
Skunk Baxter
00:27:51
What does this switch do?
Skunk Baxter
00:27:53
Okay.
Skunk Baxter
00:27:54
Oh, sure.
Skunk Baxter
00:27:55
And that's.
Skunk Baxter
00:27:56
Yeah, I take it all as a compliment, but I think his attitude is correct.
Skunk Baxter
00:28:01
It also means that the music.
Skunk Baxter
00:28:03
And I think what he's thinking is music is supposed to be living being in a lot of sense.
Skunk Baxter
00:28:09
Now, when you hear Beethoven's 6th Symphony played directed by Otto Klemperer, or you hear it with the Detroit Strings, Detroit Symphony Orchestra with our strings, it's different.
Skunk Baxter
00:28:22
It's the same, but it's different.
Skunk Baxter
00:28:24
So it's still.
Skunk Baxter
00:28:25
Even though they're playing the notes, it's a living, breathing entity.
Skunk Baxter
00:28:31
So maybe I would suggest that what he's saying is he wants to find the perfect place between the two.
Cory Wong
00:28:42
I dig that.
Cory Wong
00:28:43
So can you talk to me a little bit about how you ended up from one of the most in demand guitar players?
Cory Wong
00:28:53
I mean, still are, but ended up from going there to your current day job.
Cory Wong
00:28:59
And can you tell us a little bit, what are the similarities that you find in the two jobs?
Skunk Baxter
00:29:04
Well, also, to be fair, I haven't given up music.
Skunk Baxter
00:29:07
I keep reading that I've changed careers.
Skunk Baxter
00:29:10
Just because Brian May got his PhD in astrophysics doesn't mean he's given up music.
Skunk Baxter
00:29:16
Yeah, but to me, going back to what we were talking about before, the physics of music, I mean, basically a radar is just an electric guitar on steroids.
Skunk Baxter
00:29:28
If you understand the physics of frequency, vibration, the four forces that hold together the universe, the weak force, the strong force, electromagnetic force, and gravity.
Skunk Baxter
00:29:44
If you understand enough about that, you see the similarities all the time.
Skunk Baxter
00:29:51
Even Dr.
Skunk Baxter
00:29:52
Edward Teller, when I was working with him at Lawrence Livermore, the father of the hydrogen bomb, he was a concert pianist.
Skunk Baxter
00:30:00
We were going to do a concert together on Mozart because he was a big Mozart fan.
Skunk Baxter
00:30:04
And we were going to do piano and classical guitar.
Skunk Baxter
00:30:07
Unfortunately, he had a stroke, so we were unable to do that.
Skunk Baxter
00:30:11
But a number of physicists that I work for are all musicians.
Skunk Baxter
00:30:15
They totally understand it.
Skunk Baxter
00:30:17
And some of them even understand the biology behind the effects of certain frequencies on the creation and the secretion of certain neurotransmitters in your brain that are responsible for creating your emotional state.
Skunk Baxter
00:30:39
People say, well, that's nuts.
Skunk Baxter
00:30:42
Well, are you familiar with the Devil's interval?
Cory Wong
00:30:46
The tritone?
Skunk Baxter
00:30:47
If you play the dominant note and the raised and the flat 5, that was called the Devil's interval by the Catholic Church for 300 years.
Skunk Baxter
00:30:59
They could do horrible things to you if you included that into a musical composition.
Skunk Baxter
00:31:07
It's all odd harmonics.
Skunk Baxter
00:31:09
You can't listen to it for long.
Skunk Baxter
00:31:11
Very upsetting.
Skunk Baxter
00:31:12
And the cocktail of neurotransmitters that it forces your brain to secrete are unpleasant.
Skunk Baxter
00:31:20
So when Bach's Toccata and Fugue was first performed, they probably should have waited till the end of the church service, because when they played it in the beginning, they burned the church to the ground.
Skunk Baxter
00:31:34
And then Stravinsky said, whoa, yeah, kind of like that.
Skunk Baxter
00:31:39
So he included it in his opening theme to the Rite of Spring.
Skunk Baxter
00:31:44
And they looted eight blocks of downtown Paris after the performance.
Skunk Baxter
00:31:49
So it's hard to argue with the facts.
Skunk Baxter
00:31:57
And the fact is that music has a tremendous effect, as everyone knows, because they know it viscerally.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:05
That interests me.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:07
And the physics of taking a vibrating string and translating it through a lot of different.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:14
A lot of different harmonics, like a little different electronics, a lot of different methodologies.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:19
And seeing what comes out of the other is always fascinating.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:23
Yeah, always.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:24
I love that because I think it also makes you a better musician.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:28
We go back before.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:29
Oh, I want to be.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:30
There's 12 guitar players on this track and I want somebody to hear what I'm saying.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:35
I'm going to grab my old Telecaster that I wired out of phase back in 1962.
Skunk Baxter
00:32:41
Because I know it's going to come through the truck no matter what they do, simply because of the physics.
Speaker C
00:32:47
Yeah.
Cory Wong
00:32:49
We were talking about some producers and kind of how you do that sort of thing or how you worked with other producers.
Cory Wong
00:32:55
You have also produced some albums yourself.
Cory Wong
00:32:58
One in particular, I'm curious about the Stray Cats album.
Cory Wong
00:33:01
Original.
Skunk Baxter
00:33:02
Cool.
Cory Wong
00:33:03
What was it that you brought to the table that they were looking for?
Cory Wong
00:33:06
What did they ask of you for that album?
Cory Wong
00:33:09
Because Brian is also an incredible guitar player.
Skunk Baxter
00:33:12
I think so I would absolutely second that emotion.
Speaker C
00:33:16
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:33:18
Part of it was we were all friends and I actually gone on tour with them a few times playing pedal steel kind of in the Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys.
Speaker C
00:33:28
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:33:29
Genre.
Skunk Baxter
00:33:31
Playing a lot of swing.
Skunk Baxter
00:33:33
Because I'd been playing pedal steel in country bands since forever.
Cory Wong
00:33:38
Sure.
Skunk Baxter
00:33:40
And we were friends.
Skunk Baxter
00:33:42
So they looked at me maybe as a link to their past.
Skunk Baxter
00:33:50
They had listened to everybody from Link Ray to Dwayne Eddie to Elvis Presley, Scotty Moore and all those folks.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:00
And I'm somewhere either in between or connected to that era.
Speaker C
00:34:05
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:05
And they thought maybe, hey, let's.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:09
Let's take a couple of scoops of that ice cream.
Speaker C
00:34:13
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:13
And see what happens.
Cory Wong
00:34:14
How long did that album take to make?
Skunk Baxter
00:34:18
Not long, because we were really.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:22
We rehearsed to the point where everybody pretty much knew what we were going to do.
Speaker C
00:34:29
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:29
It was more about getting the performance than exploring the music.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:36
Music was pretty straight ahead because I guess I think it was called Original.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:39
Cool.
Speaker C
00:34:40
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:40
And the idea was we're going to do.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:43
Pay homage to some classic pieces of music.
Cory Wong
00:34:47
Yeah, that's great.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:49
So it went pretty well.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:50
And I mastered it in two ways.
Skunk Baxter
00:34:53
One, as I mastered it, you know, normally in stereo, you know, to.
Skunk Baxter
00:35:00
It was all magnetic tape, though.
Skunk Baxter
00:35:03
It was 24 track tape and to two track.
Skunk Baxter
00:35:07
And then I mastered the whole thing to a Roland 555 tape echo in mono.
Skunk Baxter
00:35:17
Because I wanted to hear or see if I could put myself in the headspace of what Sam Phillips was doing.
Speaker C
00:35:26
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:35:27
And it was.
Skunk Baxter
00:35:29
It was interesting.
Skunk Baxter
00:35:30
There was a discussion about which one they wanted to release.
Speaker C
00:35:35
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:35:37
Because obviously from a record company executive point of view, but from the band, when they heard it back, they went, wow, that.
Skunk Baxter
00:35:50
I love the way that sounds.
Skunk Baxter
00:35:52
Because they were again, I guess, thinking about the flavor of back in the day when everything was in mono and there was one big knob.
Speaker C
00:36:01
Yeah.
Cory Wong
00:36:02
That's pretty great.
Cory Wong
00:36:03
I love that.
Cory Wong
00:36:04
Actually.
Cory Wong
00:36:05
I've mixed some of my things in mono and Thought this kind of gives it a certain thing, but it's, I don't know, less palatable for a modern audience or something.
Cory Wong
00:36:18
I don't know.
Cory Wong
00:36:19
I get in my head about that sort of thing.
Skunk Baxter
00:36:21
Well, I think you have a point.
Skunk Baxter
00:36:24
Because we hear in stereo, even if we're listening to mono.
Cory Wong
00:36:28
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:36:28
Because we hear the reflections.
Speaker C
00:36:30
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:36:30
And we hear the, the, the personality of the acoustic environment that we're in, even if it's mono.
Skunk Baxter
00:36:38
It seems to be two schools of thought.
Skunk Baxter
00:36:41
One is, if you're going to.
Skunk Baxter
00:36:46
If your music is going to end up being played through earbuds on a cell phone on a beach, are you really.
Skunk Baxter
00:36:57
Should you really concentrate on the reverb tails from the string section?
Skunk Baxter
00:37:04
There's another school of thought of which I am still a member.
Skunk Baxter
00:37:07
I said I don't care where it ends up.
Skunk Baxter
00:37:11
What I'm going to deliver is going to be the absolute best.
Speaker C
00:37:17
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:37:18
No matter what.
Skunk Baxter
00:37:19
If someone decides to play it through a tuba with a speaker on one end and phone on the other, that's.
Skunk Baxter
00:37:28
That's their business.
Skunk Baxter
00:37:30
But I'm going to deliver the goods.
Speaker C
00:37:33
Yeah.
Speaker C
00:37:34
Yeah.
Cory Wong
00:37:35
I mean, I mean, even the mono stereo thing.
Cory Wong
00:37:38
I sometimes get in this weird debate with myself about the current trends of things where, you know, right now, even just in videos, so much video content that comes out is vertical, but our eyes are horizontal.
Cory Wong
00:37:58
It's like, this is not.
Cory Wong
00:38:00
It doesn't seem natural to me.
Cory Wong
00:38:01
I want, like, we watch movies on a screen that are wide because our eyes are also set that way.
Cory Wong
00:38:08
My eyes aren't on top of each other.
Cory Wong
00:38:10
And right now it feels like a lot of the way that videos, the aspect ratio of videos that are being made, it's vertical.
Cory Wong
00:38:17
Just because that's the way the phone is.
Cory Wong
00:38:19
But as soon as we get rid of the phone, as soon as we're all on VR or whatever we're going to be doing, I feel like we're going to go back to going wide.
Cory Wong
00:38:31
And then the same thing is with.
Cory Wong
00:38:32
Well, okay, let's.
Cory Wong
00:38:33
Let's just start there and then we'll get back to audio.
Skunk Baxter
00:38:36
No, I think you have a point because that is the way that your eyes are set, although your retinas around.
Skunk Baxter
00:38:44
So you can make an argument both ways.
Skunk Baxter
00:38:48
That when you actually look at anything, you're seeing a constantly defining picture of both the vertical and the horizontal.
Skunk Baxter
00:39:01
But you're absolutely right that that's the way that your vision physically is set up.
Cory Wong
00:39:09
Yeah.
Cory Wong
00:39:09
And with a lot of the Atmos mixes that I hear now, you Know, they'll make these remixes of old classic hits.
Cory Wong
00:39:19
And I sometimes feel like I catch myself feeling like, oh my gosh, am I just this grumpy old man?
Cory Wong
00:39:27
Like, oh, it was meant to be in stereo.
Cory Wong
00:39:29
But then I'm like, no, you know what?
Cory Wong
00:39:31
I listened to this atmos mix, this 11 speaker stereo mix of Miles Davis Kind of Blue, and it just feels.
Cory Wong
00:39:42
It felt so disjointed.
Cory Wong
00:39:44
Like, I feel like we're in a really interesting era of surround sound when it comes to albums where it's like, oh, yes, we can make the trumpet spin around your head while it's soloing.
Cory Wong
00:39:55
I'm like, did Miles really intend that?
Cory Wong
00:39:58
I don't think so.
Cory Wong
00:39:59
I've never seen a band live where I've been like, you know what I'd love?
Cory Wong
00:40:03
The trumpet player running in circles around my head while they're playing the trumpet solo.
Cory Wong
00:40:08
So with some of this technology that we have, mono to stereo and now stereo to this 12 speaker Atmos or whatever, I'm just kind of like, are we doing it because it's artistic or are we doing it because we can?
Skunk Baxter
00:40:25
I would posit that it has that both answers are correct.
Speaker C
00:40:30
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:40:31
That there are some people that feel in their heart that this is an artistic interpretation of someone, Andy Warhol, taking a Campbell Soup can and making an image of it.
Skunk Baxter
00:40:49
Yeah, it's a Campbell Soup can, for Christ's sake.
Skunk Baxter
00:40:54
But somewhere in his mind there's something more to it.
Skunk Baxter
00:40:59
And he was striving to figure out what that was and explore that.
Skunk Baxter
00:41:04
Fine.
Skunk Baxter
00:41:05
On the other hand, we are.
Skunk Baxter
00:41:09
How shall I say this without sounding completely disingenuous.
Skunk Baxter
00:41:15
There are a number of people for whom the technology is everything.
Skunk Baxter
00:41:23
They may not have the creative spark to write something, to perform something, but they feel since they have control of the technology, that's the way they're going to assert their is insert themselves into the mix, so to speak.
Skunk Baxter
00:41:46
Sure.
Skunk Baxter
00:41:48
Okay.
Skunk Baxter
00:41:49
That doesn't mean it's right, as you say.
Skunk Baxter
00:41:52
But I got to admit, when I have heard stereo remixes of supposedly mono records where things were maybe recorded and then either added later on with another mono track, there were all kinds of tricks that people use to try to figure out a way around this.
Skunk Baxter
00:42:20
Sometimes harmonically, the physics of what's happening make the Monomix more attractive simply by the way it processes things.
Skunk Baxter
00:42:32
For instance, when we used to mix for the radio, I would sit outside Cherokee in my truck and we'd run cable from Studio one to my radio in my truck in mono.
Skunk Baxter
00:42:48
And we run it through the broadcast limiters that we had.
Speaker C
00:42:51
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:42:52
I wanted to find out what this is really going to sound like.
Cory Wong
00:42:55
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:42:57
So I would compensate.
Skunk Baxter
00:43:00
There are ways to harmonically, structurally, and tonally and electronically compensate for all of that.
Skunk Baxter
00:43:08
How to make things sound louder than they really are.
Skunk Baxter
00:43:12
Ways that you can affect the vocals in a mono mix where you can hear more track.
Skunk Baxter
00:43:21
Just, you know, I'm open.
Skunk Baxter
00:43:23
Yeah, I'm open.
Skunk Baxter
00:43:25
But I agree with you.
Skunk Baxter
00:43:26
Doing something for something's sake.
Skunk Baxter
00:43:28
But remember, any wall on the soup can.
Skunk Baxter
00:43:30
I mean, you don't know.
Cory Wong
00:43:32
Yeah, but I really like your perspective on that because you're also saying this person saw something there and it was a genuine artistic statement of something and.
Skunk Baxter
00:43:45
Or at least it was a valid, sincere attempt.
Cory Wong
00:43:50
Okay.
Speaker C
00:43:50
Yes, yes.
Speaker C
00:43:52
Yeah, yeah.
Cory Wong
00:43:53
And that does exist in this world as well.
Cory Wong
00:43:57
But the part of it that also exists is, hey, we could probably make a lot of money on this if we xyz.
Cory Wong
00:44:07
And that's to me, where it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Cory Wong
00:44:10
Like, yes, but is it the right.
Cory Wong
00:44:14
Does it feel like it honors the original art or not?
Skunk Baxter
00:44:19
Right.
Skunk Baxter
00:44:19
And I'm telling you from my years of experience that this interpretation is important.
Skunk Baxter
00:44:28
Maybe.
Skunk Baxter
00:44:32
Well, I'll give it a maybe.
Cory Wong
00:44:33
Yeah.
Cory Wong
00:44:34
Yeah.
Cory Wong
00:44:34
Well, we'll see.
Cory Wong
00:44:35
We'll see.
Cory Wong
00:44:35
I mean, I'm excited for what the possibilities are, but I do think we have to be careful with some of that stuff.
Skunk Baxter
00:44:43
Absolutely.
Cory Wong
00:44:44
Okay.
Cory Wong
00:44:45
Another band that you're a part of, which.
Cory Wong
00:44:48
Help me get this straight with the Doobies, the Doobie brothers.
Cory Wong
00:44:52
You joined in 74.
Cory Wong
00:44:54
Ish.
Cory Wong
00:44:55
Somewhere around there.
Skunk Baxter
00:44:56
Ish.
Cory Wong
00:44:57
And did I hear that you're the one that brought Michael McDonald into the band?
Skunk Baxter
00:45:02
That is correct, yes.
Cory Wong
00:45:04
So what's the story there?
Cory Wong
00:45:05
How did you know Michael and what was the nature of the band that.
Cory Wong
00:45:09
Why did Michael need to be brought in and how did you know him before that?
Skunk Baxter
00:45:15
Well, Michael had gone out with us in Steely Dan on tour, adding a second keyboard and of course, fantastic vocals.
Cory Wong
00:45:29
Of course.
Speaker C
00:45:30
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:45:30
Everything that we did.
Skunk Baxter
00:45:32
And so I was sort of in.
Skunk Baxter
00:45:39
After I joined the Doobies officially, I was kind of in both bands for a while.
Cory Wong
00:45:43
Sure.
Skunk Baxter
00:45:44
But after I joined officially, we were out on tour and Tom Johnson, you know, a founding rock of the band.
Skunk Baxter
00:45:57
I mean, a very, you know, important part of that band was having health problems to the point that one night, I think it was at Louisiana State University in their big field house, you know, thousands of people.
Skunk Baxter
00:46:16
Tommy just couldn't make it out of the dressing room and he's having some serious gastrointestinal problem and I'm not going to get into stuff, but.
Skunk Baxter
00:46:27
But so we couldn't go out, and I went out on stage and I said, we got two choices here, folks.
Skunk Baxter
00:46:38
We can give you your money back, or if you give us 10 days, we will come back and put on a show for you.
Skunk Baxter
00:46:49
Nobody turned their tickets in, so that's when I went back.
Skunk Baxter
00:46:55
Because a lot of people were feeling very, very discouraged.
Skunk Baxter
00:46:58
And I understand, like, where are we going to go?
Skunk Baxter
00:47:02
You know, what's going to happen with the ban?
Skunk Baxter
00:47:05
And I don't know.
Skunk Baxter
00:47:08
I guess I can relate to it in my day job, too, but sometimes you got to make a command decision.
Speaker C
00:47:13
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:47:15
So I said, I'm going to call my friend Mike McDonald and get him out here and we'll rehearse for like seven, eight days.
Skunk Baxter
00:47:22
And I know this is going to work.
Speaker C
00:47:24
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:47:25
And he probably relates to it in his book of just saying, here's a one way ticket, come on out.
Skunk Baxter
00:47:31
And at least for a certain period of time, play with the Doobie Brothers.
Speaker C
00:47:38
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:47:39
And so he came out, we did the show.
Skunk Baxter
00:47:42
We rehearsed 10 hours a day for eight days, went out and did the show, got five encores.
Skunk Baxter
00:47:49
Wow.
Skunk Baxter
00:47:50
And I thought to myself, okay, sometimes you get the elevator and sometimes you get to shout.
Skunk Baxter
00:47:57
So this time we got the elevator.
Speaker C
00:47:59
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:00
And this is going to work out.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:01
And then after a while, everyone really saw what Michael could bring to the band.
Speaker C
00:48:09
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:10
Which it's not so much better or worse.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:15
It's like Fleetwood Mac.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:17
I mean, you can make an argument either way.
Cory Wong
00:48:18
Sure.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:20
But it was an opportunity for the musical talents of every member of that band to develop and blossom even more.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:33
And I think everybody saw that.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:35
Plus he brought some very good songwriting capability as well.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:40
Different.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:41
Having a keyboard in any band makes things different anyway.
Speaker C
00:48:45
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:48:46
It changes the harmonic personality of things and it focuses people more on, I guess, more on the harmonic structure than guitar.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:00
Total guitars, we love guitars.
Speaker C
00:49:02
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:03
But because guitars are based.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:07
Based on a logarithmic scale, you can never really get the thing in tune.
Cory Wong
00:49:12
I know.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:13
It's mathematically physically impossible.
Cory Wong
00:49:15
We get close sometimes.
Cory Wong
00:49:17
Yeah, but.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:17
Yeah, but at least in this universe, I mean, you can't have two logarithms be the same.
Speaker C
00:49:22
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:23
That's mathematically, at least in this universe, not happening.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:32
So having a keyboard in the band really changes things.
Speaker C
00:49:37
Yep.
Cory Wong
00:49:38
And probably writing things in G flat and B flat, which we're not really going to do.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:44
No.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:45
Well, it depends.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:47
It depends.
Skunk Baxter
00:49:48
I think I think Jimi Hendrix wrote Purple Haze in F sharp.
Cory Wong
00:49:52
Well, also, depending if you have your guitar tuned down a half step or something.
Cory Wong
00:49:56
I'm actually curious because you're bringing up the physics of something.
Cory Wong
00:49:59
I do think that certain keys just have different emotions to them.
Skunk Baxter
00:50:04
Absolutely.
Cory Wong
00:50:05
What is your.
Cory Wong
00:50:06
What's your physics take on that?
Cory Wong
00:50:09
And how do you.
Cory Wong
00:50:10
Because you know the physics side of things and you also understand the emotional and just musical side of things.
Cory Wong
00:50:17
I've always felt there's certain keys that just carry a depth of emotion or that carry different types of emotion.
Cory Wong
00:50:23
I mean, the one that people always talk about is D minor is the saddest of all keys, Whatever.
Cory Wong
00:50:27
But I feel like E flat's got this special kind of nostalgia.
Cory Wong
00:50:33
It's got this depth.
Cory Wong
00:50:35
It's got this thing that just.
Cory Wong
00:50:38
That's, I don't know, rooted in generational something like.
Cory Wong
00:50:45
There's a depth and a love to the key of E flat that I just can't explain.
Cory Wong
00:50:52
And there's other keys that just do different things for me.
Cory Wong
00:50:56
What's your take on this?
Skunk Baxter
00:50:59
I absolutely agree, referring to our conversation before, about how certain combinations of harmonics stimulate the brain to secrete varying cocktails of neurotransmitters which basically define your emotions.
Skunk Baxter
00:51:22
I mean, I know that we're all romanticists and that all of this is very special from the universe.
Skunk Baxter
00:51:31
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:51:31
Okay.
Skunk Baxter
00:51:32
Meanwhile, your brain's pumping out oxytocin, vasopressin, adrenaline, serotonin, and a number of different neurotransmitters was all combined in different ways.
Skunk Baxter
00:51:42
Make you pissed off, happy, upset, crazy.
Skunk Baxter
00:51:47
You know, that's how it works.
Skunk Baxter
00:51:50
Sorry.
Skunk Baxter
00:51:51
So what you're referring to is, I believe, a particular key that, as you say, playing in a particular, you know, where the dominant, say, E flat, and the key feeling is E flat.
Skunk Baxter
00:52:09
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:52:10
There's absolutely no doubt about it.
Skunk Baxter
00:52:12
As a matter of fact, if you really want to get to try something interesting, I'm assuming you do a lot of recording digitally.
Skunk Baxter
00:52:21
So next time you record something, transpose the whole composition to a 432.
Skunk Baxter
00:52:31
It'll blow your mind.
Cory Wong
00:52:33
Are you.
Cory Wong
00:52:34
Are you a Die Hard?
Cory Wong
00:52:35
A 432?
Skunk Baxter
00:52:38
I'm not a Die Hard, no.
Skunk Baxter
00:52:40
Although that was in Europe for many years, was the center of classical tuning.
Skunk Baxter
00:52:50
Not only.
Skunk Baxter
00:52:50
Well, again, you said that E flat for you has a certain emotional flavor and personality for you.
Skunk Baxter
00:52:59
Yeah, I would say.
Skunk Baxter
00:53:01
Since you are sensitive to that, try lowering your track from a 440 to a 432.
Skunk Baxter
00:53:11
I think you'll notice a very interesting Difference in the way that your brain, or you, of course, you are your brain.
Skunk Baxter
00:53:18
Your brain is you feel about the music.
Cory Wong
00:53:23
I've seen a lot of videos about this.
Cory Wong
00:53:25
I've seen people do studies and they'll do side by side certain things from like, yeah, that feels different.
Cory Wong
00:53:34
But I would love to be the one playing it and listening back both in 440 and 432.
Cory Wong
00:53:41
I should sit down and do some of this because, you know, if this is what my life's work is, music.
Skunk Baxter
00:53:46
Well, that's what I'm suggesting.
Skunk Baxter
00:53:47
Take a track that you recorded yourself.
Skunk Baxter
00:53:50
Yeah, as a matter of fact.
Skunk Baxter
00:53:53
Although what would be probably more interesting, Record an acoustic guitar track tuned to a 440.
Speaker C
00:54:03
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:04
Play it back at a 440.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:07
Play it back at a 432 and then retune your guitar using a 432 as the centerpiece.
Speaker C
00:54:17
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:18
And then start comparing.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:20
Because the only problem with digital recording is it sucks.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:25
And it just.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:27
No matter how thin you slice an orange, no matter how you try to put it back together, it's not an orange anymore.
Speaker C
00:54:35
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:35
It's a close approximation, but it's not an orange.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:39
So there are three different ways to look at this.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:42
Recording it.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:44
Transposing the recording.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:47
Recording it and listening to the non transposed and then playing it with a different tuning.
Speaker C
00:54:54
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:54:55
Be interesting to see.
Cory Wong
00:54:57
I'm going to get on it tonight.
Cory Wong
00:54:58
You see these acoustic guitars behind me.
Cory Wong
00:55:00
I'm going to.
Cory Wong
00:55:00
I have a couple duplicates.
Cory Wong
00:55:01
I'm going to tune them to different ones that are the exact same.
Skunk Baxter
00:55:04
And the difference shouldn't be horrifyingly problematic for the intonation of the instrument.
Cory Wong
00:55:12
I wouldn't think so.
Skunk Baxter
00:55:13
But if you were really going to do this experiment, I guess you'd have to find an old Gibson J200 with a tunematic bridge and go out there and, you know, try to try to intimate it as best you can.
Cory Wong
00:55:28
But what are you excited about on the guitar these days?
Skunk Baxter
00:55:31
One of my favorite things has always been the guitar synthesizer.
Skunk Baxter
00:55:37
Because when I first started to work for Roland 50 years ago.
Skunk Baxter
00:55:43
Wow.
Skunk Baxter
00:55:43
You know, I came to them with an idea.
Skunk Baxter
00:55:49
I had put six tape heads, one under each string, and was working on trying to figure out a way to convert pitch to something that a computer could understand.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:06
And Roland was doing the same thing.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:07
A couple of other companies were doing it as well, but Roland was really focused on it.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:11
So that's what started me with them.
Speaker C
00:56:13
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:14
And I've been following through with the guitar synth ever since.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:19
And there are Some people who think it's a toy.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:25
Don't tell Bella Fleck that.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:27
Yeah, don't tell Pat Matheny that.
Cory Wong
00:56:29
I was just going to say Matheny's could make a pretty good case for you.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:33
And I remember saying, damn it.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:35
I don't want the keyboard players to have all the fun.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:39
You know, I want to.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:42
I want to.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:43
I want to do this, too.
Speaker C
00:56:44
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:45
And there have been times where I did a.
Skunk Baxter
00:56:49
You know, you do these tribute albums, and somebody said, well, I want you to play on to sergeant Pepper only Hearts Club Band, but we don't have enough money to hire a horn section.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:03
Fine, let's go to work.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:07
So with a great trombone patch, with great trumpet patches, putting yourself in the headspace of that instrument, there were people that said, that's an amazing horn section.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:19
We would just smile.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:21
So it's a wonderful tool.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:24
And then, of course, when I midied up my pedal steel, I created a thermonuclear musical bomb.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:34
I mean, that is the ultimate instrument.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:38
I mean, imagine the voicings.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:40
Two violas, two cellos, four violins, four voices.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:46
I mean, organ screaming, you know?
Speaker C
00:57:50
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:51
Oh, yeah.
Cory Wong
00:57:52
I love it.
Cory Wong
00:57:53
So what are you.
Cory Wong
00:57:54
You're using a rolling system right now.
Cory Wong
00:57:55
What are you using on your guitar?
Skunk Baxter
00:57:56
Always.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:57
Yeah, I've always been.
Skunk Baxter
00:57:59
Simply because I'm a rolling guy.
Speaker C
00:58:01
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:01
And I believe the technologies that we have are really good.
Cory Wong
00:58:05
That's great.
Cory Wong
00:58:06
I love it.
Cory Wong
00:58:07
Well, Skunk, it has been so great to have you on the podcast.
Cory Wong
00:58:11
I just have loved so much of your artistry and respect, so much of what you do.
Cory Wong
00:58:17
So I really appreciate you being with us today.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:19
You're very kind.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:20
You're very kind.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:22
And I'll leave it that although I understand the desire to have expensive instruments, I did the solo on Hot Stuff, the Donna Summer record, with a guitar about.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:37
For 25 bucks.
Cory Wong
00:58:38
A 25 guitar?
Cory Wong
00:58:39
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:39
It was a Burns Bison Jr.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:42
It was in a.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:43
In a boxing guitar center and said, buy me 25 bucks.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:47
And I was in a hurry.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:49
I get to the session and have a guitar, and, I don't know, seem to work out okay.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:55
Wow.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:56
So it's really.
Skunk Baxter
00:58:59
Yes, some of it is the instrument.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:02
Some instruments are only good for archery.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:05
I get it.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:06
You know, because the neck is so bowed that it's impossible to play.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:11
But don't use that as a crutch.
Speaker C
00:59:14
I like that.
Cory Wong
00:59:16
I like that a lot.
Cory Wong
00:59:17
That's good wisdom.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:19
Well, I remember when I was working at Jimmy's music shop on 48th street, back before you were born back on.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:25
Back in the early 60s, you could buy a Fender Stratocaster for $275 with the case.
Speaker C
00:59:32
Yeah.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:32
Now you can buy a Squire Fender Stratocaster.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:38
That's a pretty nice instrument for $275 with the cast.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:42
There's something.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:44
There's some justice in there that I haven't quite figured out yet, but it feels good.
Cory Wong
00:59:50
Yeah, well, there's a lot of great, inexpensive instruments out there right now.
Cory Wong
00:59:54
So that is.
Cory Wong
00:59:55
Yeah, that is absolutely true.
Skunk Baxter
00:59:57
Well, thank you for your hospitality.
Cory Wong
00:59:59
Yes, thank you, Skunk.
Skunk Baxter
01:00:00
I'm amazed everybody cares what I have to say.
Skunk Baxter
01:00:03
So thank you.
Cory Wong
01:00:04
Well, of course we do.
Cory Wong
01:00:05
Of course we do.
Skunk Baxter
01:00:06
You're a total legend, and I love Premier magazine.
Skunk Baxter
01:00:10
I think you guys do an excellent job on all aspects of the instrument.
Cory Wong
01:00:15
Well, thank you.
Cory Wong
01:00:16
We appreciate it.
Cory Wong
01:00:17
Well, thanks, Skunk.
Cory Wong
01:00:18
We'll hopefully see you sometime in person soon.
Skunk Baxter
01:00:20
Look forward to it.
Skunk Baxter
01:00:21
Thank you.
Speaker C
01:00:22
Yep.
Cory Wong
01:00:22
Peace.
Skunk Baxter
01:00:23
Take care.
Skunk Baxter
01:00:24
Gentlemen.
Cory Wong
01:00:27
There you have it.
Cory Wong
01:00:28
Skunk Baxter.
Cory Wong
01:00:30
Dude, Cat's dope.
Cory Wong
01:00:32
Cat's got some depth, dude.
Cory Wong
01:00:35
So many records he's been on, dude, insane.
Cory Wong
01:00:39
Anyway, thanks for hanging with us today.
Cory Wong
01:00:41
Thanks for listening.
Cory Wong
01:00:42
We'll see you next time.
Cory Wong
01:00:43
Peace.