381 | When Kids Ask Questions in the Playroom: How CCPT Therapists Should Respond

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Yitzi.

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And this is about an 11 year old boy.

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And

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essentially,

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the type of play

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and

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the questions that come up

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in session.

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So,

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really helpful.

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I'm really excited for this.

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Yitzi,

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thank you for the question.

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And one of the things that I've been seeing a lot

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in my discussions in coaching and in the collective

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is we kind of get stuck as CCPTs when kids are very inquisitive.

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So,

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when we start getting asked a lot of questions

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in the playroom,

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we're not really sure how to handle that because

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we're supposed to feign ignorance.

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We're supposed to not teach or preach.

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We're not supposed to have any information the child doesn't have.

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We're not supposed to make things personal.

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So there's all of these principles that undergird the

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sense that we're not really meant to answer questions,

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but there are times when

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it's helpful to answer,

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answer questions

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for certain contexts,

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and there is a method by which we answer questions.

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So,

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it's important for us to discuss this.

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I'm really grateful for the question.

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So let me read parts of it

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and then we'll dive in together.

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I'm currently working with an 11 year old boy.

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I see him individually in an office setting through my school internship.

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From the very beginning,

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he gravitated

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toward doing projects rather than traditional play.

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He wants to build things,

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often with popsicle sticks,

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and he comes in with very big imaginative ideas

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to create helicopters,

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drones,

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solar-powered devices,

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and other things that are far beyond what

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either of us realistically knows how to make.

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Grant in fantasy what you can't grant in reality,

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y'all.

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I told him that he's the expert and he's in charge.

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However,

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I've noticed that this sometimes leads to a lot of frustration for him.

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For example,

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he noticed a device in the office and kept asking me what it was.

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I intentionally didn't answer,

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trying to stay child-centered and return responsibility,

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but he became increasingly upset and repeatedly demanded I tell him what it was.

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In that moment,

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I felt unsure whether staying completely non-informational was

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helping him regulate or increasing his frustration.

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He actually said,

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I don't want to be the expert.

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You should be the expert.

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All right,

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let me pause on that note.

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There's more to the question,

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but

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I want to stop right there for a second.

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So Yi,

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I want to address something that you said.

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I felt unsure whether staying completely non-informational was

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helping him regulate or increasing his frustration.

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You and everyone else,

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so you're not alone.

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This is one of the most important distinctions that we make in our minds.

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Our adherence and fidelity to the model

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is never governed by how the child responds.

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We never make decisions

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based on how a child reacts,

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how they feel,

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what they think,

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what they say,

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what they do.

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We stay adherent and faithful to the model because the model works.

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So when you said,

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I felt unsure whether staying non-informational was helping him regulate,

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it's not your job to help him regulate.

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We never help kids regulate.

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They learn to regulate themselves.

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It's not our job to be concerned if they get frustrated.

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The whole premise of CCPT

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is we adhere to a specific set of responses

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because they have proven outcomes.

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And if he is getting frustrated,

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which he obviously is,

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but in theory,

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if a child is getting frustrated,

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it's because it's their junk coming up,

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as evidenced by his declaration,

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I don't want to be the expert.

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You should be the expert.

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He doesn't feel comfortable.

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Having responsibility,

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he doesn't feel comfortable

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having control,

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and he doesn't like not knowing things.

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That's what's coming up right here,

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I.

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It has nothing to do with you.

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It has nothing to do with the model.

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It has nothing to do with you refusing to answer the question.

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This is his junk,

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which is exactly what we're hoping for.

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We want his junk to come up.

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So internally,

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we're celebrating.

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Externally,

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we're calm and neutral,

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but we don't deviate from the model regardless of his response.

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OK,

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so let me continue reading.

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Is it OK to sometimes be more natural

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and have brief normal back and forth moments with a

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child who is curious and asks many concrete questions?

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I understand the importance of I wonder

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statements and not asking leading questions,

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but at times it feels a bit unnatural,

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especially when the child is genuinely curious.

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For example,

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he recently asked what temperature

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nickel melts at to become molten metal.

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I reflected it back to him with,

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I wonder what you think,

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but I wasn't sure if that was always the most

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supportive response.

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OK,

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so now that brings us to another

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point of discussion.

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Is it OK to sometimes be more natural and have brief normal back to back moments

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with a child who is very curious and asks concrete questions?

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Yes,

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if we can get to the root of the reason they're asking.

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Hashtag the why matters.

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If the child is asking because

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they can't handle ambiguity,

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and they always have to be in charge and they always have to know things,

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and it is not OK if you don't tell me,

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and I want to know right now,

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so you have to.

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We're not going to answer.

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If a child is asking because it's connective and relational.

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Are you married?

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That's a question we can answer if it's truly

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because they're trying to get to know you.

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Do you have kids?

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What's your favorite color?

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Mine's blue.

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Sometimes it's appropriate to answer because it's the intention

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is to connect and to relate to you.

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We're all about relationship.

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So if a kid wants to get to know you

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and is asking questions that are appropriate for you to answer,

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you can answer.

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If a child is demanding you tell them because it's a power and control grab.

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You will tell me because I'm the boss in here and I choose for you to tell me right now.

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We have to decide,

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do we give an answer because it's power and control,

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and it's actually a concrete answer,

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or are they really not asking for the answer,

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they just want the power and control.

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It's usually the latter.

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So we would not answer.

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So we're making clinical judgment calls

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on whether or not we respond and how we respond.

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In your case,

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you see,

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when you said.

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He recently asked what temperature a nickel melts.

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To become molten metal,

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I reflected it back to him with,

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I wonder what you think.

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OK,

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we have to be really careful

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to only use I wonder statements

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when it's clinically necessary information that we're seeking.

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So we would actually not use an I wonder statement there.

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We would just say,

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oh,

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you're wondering about when nickel melts,

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at what temperature a nickel melts.

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Gosh,

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I'm not sure.

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Now,

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Be very careful,

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y'all.

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We're not going to lie to kids.

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We are to feign ignorance.

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We are to not be the source of any information.

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We don't know anything a child doesn't know.

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If you knew,

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Yitzie,

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if you,

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I would be so impressed.

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You need to email me and let me know.

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If you know the temperature at which a nickel melts,

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then hot dog,

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good for you,

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and I'm not really going to give you any advice cause

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I'm not in that camp.

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But I personally would say,

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oh,

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you're wondering when

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a nickel's gonna melt.

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I,

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I'm not sure.

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Because

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that's a wholly truthful answer.

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I have no clue.

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I mean,

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Doctor Google knows,

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I'm sure,

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but I have no idea.

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So I would very truthfully say,

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I'm not sure either.

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Now,

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if you do know the answer,

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if a kid says,

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what's 7 + 3?

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And even if you have to count on your fingers,

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y'all,

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there are 10 fingers,

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so you,

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you will be fine with 7 + 3.

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So,

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what's 7 + 3?

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You actually know the answer to that one.

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That's a little bit of a different response because you're like,

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oh gosh,

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I don't know.

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You know.

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So you might say,

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oh,

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you're wondering what 7 + 3 is.

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Well,

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you get to decide.

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That's one option.

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The other option is,

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I'm not sure what you think 7 + 3 is.

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Notice how I said what you think,

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not what I think,

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because I think it's 10,

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but I have no idea what you think it is.

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So I'm not going to answer.

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Or we return responsibility.

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Oh,

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you tell me you're in charge in here.

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But we're not wondering

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in those scenarios.

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That is not an I wonder statement,

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appropriate opportunity.

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Because

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we have to reserve those and save those for when we actually need information.

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And that's not one of those moments.

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OK,

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final question related to that,

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I've noticed I often say I wonder before my reflective statements.

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Is that OK or is it better to simply say I wonder without the extra language?

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00:09:07,469 --> 00:09:07,559
Well,

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I kind of answered that question earlier.

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00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,440
So we're actually reserving I wonder statements specifically

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for when we need clinically necessary information.

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00:09:14,409 --> 00:09:15,440
Let me give you an example.

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Child says,

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00:09:17,539 --> 00:09:18,880
We're building a bunker

286
00:09:19,539 --> 00:09:20,919
and we're both in the military

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00:09:21,419 --> 00:09:24,200
and we have to get in here

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00:09:24,419 --> 00:09:25,679
and we're in our foxhole,

289
00:09:25,820 --> 00:09:26,849
and then when I say go,

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00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:29,150
you have to run and kill all those bad guys.

291
00:09:31,020 --> 00:09:32,330
And then you say

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00:09:33,020 --> 00:09:33,460
content back,

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00:09:33,539 --> 00:09:33,700
you know,

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00:09:33,820 --> 00:09:33,969
like,

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00:09:33,979 --> 00:09:34,140
oh,

296
00:09:34,219 --> 00:09:35,059
we're in a bunker,

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00:09:35,580 --> 00:09:36,400
we have to get ready,

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00:09:36,510 --> 00:09:37,599
we gotta kill the bad guys.

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00:09:38,140 --> 00:09:39,159
And then he goes,

300
00:09:39,729 --> 00:09:39,940
OK,

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00:09:40,070 --> 00:09:40,900
now go.

302
00:09:42,070 --> 00:09:42,549
Well,

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00:09:43,070 --> 00:09:46,510
what in the world does that child have in mind for me to do in that moment?

304
00:09:46,669 --> 00:09:47,979
I have no blooming clue,

305
00:09:48,309 --> 00:09:49,409
so I'm going to say,

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00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:49,989
oh,

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00:09:50,030 --> 00:09:51,409
I wonder what I have to do first.

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00:09:52,229 --> 00:09:53,429
Or I wonder what happens now,

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00:09:53,609 --> 00:09:54,900
or I wonder what I'm supposed to do.

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00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,909
That is an appropriate moment for an I wonder statement because

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00:09:58,909 --> 00:10:01,890
I cannot do what I'm being asked to do without clarity.

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00:10:02,190 --> 00:10:04,510
I cannot do what I'm being asked to do

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00:10:04,510 --> 00:10:07,489
without being given specific instructions from the child.

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00:10:08,429 --> 00:10:10,109
Because me running and quote,

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00:10:10,229 --> 00:10:11,770
getting rid of the bad guys

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00:10:12,210 --> 00:10:14,109
out of my bunker foxhole,

317
00:10:14,590 --> 00:10:17,469
that's probably going to look totally different than what the child had in mind.

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00:10:18,669 --> 00:10:19,710
So in that moment,

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00:10:19,719 --> 00:10:23,469
we wonder to get what we need before we can assume that role.

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00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:25,369
So Yitzi,

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00:10:25,479 --> 00:10:26,400
thank you so much for the question.

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00:10:26,479 --> 00:10:27,500
I hope that's helpful.

323
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,380
The goal of

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00:10:29,799 --> 00:10:31,539
interaction in the playroom

325
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:32,739
is relationship.

326
00:10:34,030 --> 00:10:34,609
So,

327
00:10:34,789 --> 00:10:34,989
yes,

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00:10:35,070 --> 00:10:35,969
we're adherent.

329
00:10:36,229 --> 00:10:36,429
Yes,

330
00:10:36,549 --> 00:10:38,530
we make sure that we aren't deviating,

331
00:10:39,070 --> 00:10:40,489
but we're also real

332
00:10:40,830 --> 00:10:42,049
and we're building a relationship

333
00:10:42,789 --> 00:10:45,140
and we are connecting verbally at times.

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00:10:45,580 --> 00:10:47,250
So we find the balance.

335
00:10:47,830 --> 00:10:51,929
We don't want to deviate and we don't want to go off and say random things,

336
00:10:52,190 --> 00:10:56,729
but we also don't want to be so rigid that I'm only able to use these skills.

337
00:10:57,239 --> 00:10:59,239
That I never answer a child's question.

338
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:00,989
I never engage in dialogue.

339
00:11:01,059 --> 00:11:01,580
I never

340
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,409
have any kind of interaction verbally

341
00:11:04,580 --> 00:11:06,979
other than the 11 skills that I'm going to use.

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00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,140
We're always trying to

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00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:10,619
make it feel that

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00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:11,960
it's real,

345
00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:13,200
it's genuine,

346
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:14,659
and it's relational.

347
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:15,469
So,

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00:11:15,479 --> 00:11:16,840
I hope that that encourages y'all.

349
00:11:17,039 --> 00:11:17,599
I love you.

350
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:18,559
Thanks for hanging out with me.

351
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:19,479
We'll talk again soon.

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00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:19,919
Bye.

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00:11:20,940 --> 00:11:24,770
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.