361 | Pricing Your Practice: The Real Math Behind Free Parent Consultations

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Sarah in California.

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And this is about

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The parent consultation process

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and how to provide that to parents and what that process looks like.

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So,

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Sarah,

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thanks so much for the email.

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Congrats on your new practice,

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by the way.

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And I want to

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read a little bit of the email and then we'll dive in together.

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Really quickly before we do that,

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I know I announced it in the

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curriculum podcast,

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but maybe for those of you that have not listened

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to that yet and you just popped onto this one.

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We are doing an in-person live

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contact hour, APT approved conference,

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January 30th,

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31st,

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and February 1st in Tampa.

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So,

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if you can make your way

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to our little peninsula down here at the southeastern part of the world,

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or at least the the North American world,

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if you can come and hang out,

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I would love to have you please go to playtherapynow.com and check that out

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and you'll see all the different options.

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There's savings on cost if you

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sign up in December.

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So don't like wait and think,

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well,

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let me figure it out cause then you're gonna pay

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more and I'm all about trying to be frugal.

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So,

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come hang out.

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I would love to spend time with you.

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So many of you have already told me that you're coming.

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I actually,

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I,

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like I tell you this really funny fast story.

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I had dinner with one of my coaching participant graduates.

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She was down from Indiana and

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in Florida,

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so

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Mya and I went to dinner with her.

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And

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she's like,

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hey,

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so this other friend of mine and I,

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they're both CCPTs.

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We're,

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we're coming,

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but we don't even know like what,

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what we just mentioned,

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heard you mention that we were doing something and so we're coming,

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but can you give us details?

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I was like,

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wow,

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that is,

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that is serious commitment right there.

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You,

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you say you're in and you don't even know what you're in for.

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So it is at Steinbrenner Field,

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close to the water.

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With palm trees and beautiful weather and baseball and me and CCPT and man,

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it's gonna be so exciting.

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So,

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love to have you playtherapynow.com

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Check it out.

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All right,

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back to Sarah's email.

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I've recently started my own child-centered private practice.

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I've worked with kids for a long time,

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but have just recently thrown myself into the child-centered

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approach because I was primarily using non-directive therapy already.

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I'm getting referrals and establishing a number of

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new clients in the past few months,

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and my playroom is about 85% as well stocked as I would like it to be.

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I'm in the process of setting up my first round of parent

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check-ins for my 5 session benchmark with some of my new clients.

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I established at the onset of therapy that these are included as part of treatment,

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and I'm not planning to charge a fee.

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However,

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in looking forward to my growing caseload,

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it has just struck me that this will end up being 10 to 15 hours a month of unpaid work.

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I'm wondering how you handle parent check-ins,

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if you charge for them,

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and if the rate might differ from the play session fee.

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Any insight would be appreciated.

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All right,

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Sarah,

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I'm actually really glad that you emailed about this.

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I don't typically get

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businessy questions very often,

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and that's a huge part of the coaching.

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That we

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hang out and do talk about all week long

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with my coaching folks.

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So,

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this is really helpful.

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And for those of you that have the luxury

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of determining how you handle parent check-ins and otherwise,

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in other words,

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I don't know where that came from.

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In other words,

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if you have the ability to set your own schedule

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to decide what you can and can't bill for,

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you know,

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obviously your own private practice,

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an independent contractor and a group practice.

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Sometimes if you're in an agency or

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Some other kind of

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capacity,

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they will give you that freedom.

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And these are important things to consider because this is part of the process.

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We cannot provide CCPT without also engaging parents.

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And we know the clinical outcomes are better

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when parents are involved.

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So,

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this is a,

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a really big piece of our work

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and best practice is something that we need to discuss.

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So,

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Yes,

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absolutely.

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For us at our center and what I coach all of my

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business coaching folks,

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we do not charge for parent consults.

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And here's why.

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In the medical space,

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parents are given access to

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records.

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So all a parent has to do is ask for a request of records,

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and they're able to see all medical

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treatments and notes and everything related to the client's file.

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Mental health,

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the rules are different.

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Confidentiality lies with the client even though the client is a minor.

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So,

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the parent is not allowed to have access to the records.

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The parent is not allowed to see your notes.

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That is covered under confidentiality privilege.

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However,

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parents have to know what's going on.

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They have to be involved.

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They have to feel like they're aware of progress that's being made.

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You want them to be engaged.

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You want them to be

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working at home to support the work that's taking place in the playroom.

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So this kind of seems like it's a conflicting agenda

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until you realize that the free parent consult is the way around that.

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And so

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what we have always done,

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I've been doing this almost 21 years and I

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have never once charged for a parent consult.

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Why?

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Because it's worked into

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the cost of

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treatment.

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In other words,

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we know that the average

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number of sessions is 30 to 40

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for play therapy.

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OK,

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so let's just

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go to the high end of that.

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Let's say you're going to work with a client 40 times,

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40 sessions.

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If you do an initial parent consult that's free,

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and then you see the parent every 5 sessions through a 40-week treatment cycle,

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you know

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that you're giving

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9 parent consult hours away.

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But it is included in the 40 hours that you've been paid for.

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So essentially,

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you've been paid for 40 hours of work

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and you will work 49 hours with that family.

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This is why you establish your rate

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to allow for those extra 9 hours to be added.

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So in other words,

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if you say,

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OK,

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I'm charging $100 an hour,

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by the way,

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you should be charging a lot more than $100 an hour,

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but for round numbers we're going to go $100 an hour.

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If I'm going to see this family 40 sessions.

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I'm going to make $4000 with this family.

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OK,

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but that means I'm going to work 49 hours for $4000.

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Is that worth it to me?

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Do I feel that my hourly rate is enough

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if I'm going to work 49 hours to make $4000?

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If you say,

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well,

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that's less than $100 an hour,

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I'd like to make more than that,

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then you bump your rate to $125.

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You bump your rate to 150.

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And the purpose of this is,

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so if you bump to $150 that's a $6000 life cycle with the client.

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Can you

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work 49 hours for $6000?

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Does that seem like it's more what you were hoping for

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as far as an hourly rate?

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You work it into the cost of your rate.

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And here's the premise behind it.

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Parents are not going to stay bought in.

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Parents are not going to stick it out.

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Parents are not going to wait for progress

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if they don't feel like they know what's happening,

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and you have to do a lot of hand holding and a lot of pep talking and a lot of encouraging

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and a lot of reminding them of what's happening

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that happens in those five week consults.

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And I would argue

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that

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it's

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a hard pill to swallow for a parent.

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To pay for 5 sessions straight of therapy.

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And then have a therapist look at them and say,

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well,

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if you want to know what's going on,

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you're going to have to pay me again so that I can tell you what's going on.

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I don't feel good about that.

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I'm not sure that that's ethically appropriate.

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I think,

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I,

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I mean,

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honestly,

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it feels gross to me.

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If I'm just being really blatant,

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it feels gross to say if you want to know what's going on

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and you want an update on your child's progress,

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then give me more money.

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I don't think that that's best practice.

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And so we work it into the cost.

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They are given those parent consults for free

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for the entirety of the program

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or the,

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the treatment

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and

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Sarah,

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back to your email,

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when you said this will be 10 to 15 hours a month.

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Not really.

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And here's why I'm saying that,

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because

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most of the time,

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Hold on,

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let me back up.

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So,

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if you start all of your clients at once,

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in other words,

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when you first start out in private practice or when you first join

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a practice or when you first get your caseloads full,

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it does kind of work in this weird way where almost all your kids

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are

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having your 5 weeks together and then almost

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all your kids are having 10 weeks together.

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So at the beginning,

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it does seem like it kind of gets bunched up.

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But once you've been doing this work for a while,

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You may only have

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2 or 3.

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Families each month

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that are on that 5 or 10 or 15 week mark.

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So it actually ends up not being that many check-ins

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that you're doing in a month span because if you have 20 or 25 kids,

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half of those kids are not gonna be on a 5,

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10, 15,

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or 20-week mark all in one month.

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And it eventually kind of works itself out where

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00:09:40,210 --> 00:09:43,080
you're only doing like one consult a week usually.

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So,

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you know,

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most of the time,

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00:09:45,570 --> 00:09:46,440
on average,

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00:09:46,450 --> 00:09:49,510
you're looking at maybe 4 consults at most.

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00:09:50,260 --> 00:09:51,460
That you would be doing a month,

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00:09:51,580 --> 00:09:53,400
maybe 5 or 6 on a busy month,

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00:09:54,140 --> 00:09:57,239
but that's certainly not 10 to 15 like you're referencing here.

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And the goal is that parents

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feel like they're being given value.

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When you don't bill them,

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they know what your hourly rate is.

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00:10:05,299 --> 00:10:06,179
They know that your,

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00:10:06,419 --> 00:10:07,700
your time is valuable,

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and they know that you could bill for that.

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But when you don't,

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it's goodwill,

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00:10:13,580 --> 00:10:15,280
it's perception of value,

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it's relationship building.

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And they know,

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like and trust you.

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The general public already has a negative

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00:10:23,419 --> 00:10:26,469
connotation and association that therapists are greedy

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00:10:26,739 --> 00:10:29,059
and they'll just bill people over and over and over again,

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and it's all about money.

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I think this flies in the face of that

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because

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00:10:34,719 --> 00:10:39,039
I think when we say I never bill you for the meetings that we have together,

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I just want you to have an update.

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I want to know how things are going.

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00:10:41,919 --> 00:10:42,840
I want to encourage you.

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00:10:42,919 --> 00:10:44,580
I want to equip you with some skills

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that you can be doing at home.

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Those are highly valuable to parents,

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00:10:49,380 --> 00:10:53,409
and they feel that you really care about their child and their family.

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00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:58,330
That's the process that we've always used and it has served us really well.

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And

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interestingly,

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related aside,

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00:11:01,989 --> 00:11:03,450
you all make fun of that phrase a lot.

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00:11:04,109 --> 00:11:05,849
I just was subpoenaed last week

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00:11:06,070 --> 00:11:07,690
and I was in court on Monday,

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00:11:08,359 --> 00:11:10,179
and my court fee is really,

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00:11:10,270 --> 00:11:10,909
really high.

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00:11:11,070 --> 00:11:14,049
My hourly court rate is really high on purpose.

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00:11:14,549 --> 00:11:16,429
And I was on the hearing,

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00:11:16,510 --> 00:11:17,770
it was a virtual

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00:11:17,950 --> 00:11:18,489
hearing.

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00:11:18,729 --> 00:11:20,750
So I was on the computer for an hour and a half.

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00:11:21,469 --> 00:11:24,309
And we billed my very high rate for that hour and a half.

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00:11:24,950 --> 00:11:26,950
And when the mom got the invoice,

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00:11:27,109 --> 00:11:27,989
she called Mya,

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00:11:28,109 --> 00:11:28,609
my

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00:11:28,869 --> 00:11:29,450
assistant,

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00:11:29,989 --> 00:11:30,690
and said,

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00:11:31,309 --> 00:11:31,390
Oh,

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00:11:31,469 --> 00:11:33,049
I'm kind of surprised by this.

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00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:33,729
And

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00:11:33,909 --> 00:11:34,349
Mya said,

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00:11:34,469 --> 00:11:34,609
Well,

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00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:36,369
last time Brenna appeared

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00:11:36,549 --> 00:11:37,609
for your hearing,

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00:11:38,109 --> 00:11:39,250
the child's father

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00:11:39,469 --> 00:11:40,750
paid for the subpoena.

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00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:42,469
So this time,

349
00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:43,539
like you weren't aware

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00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,070
of the fee because he paid last time,

351
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:46,429
you know,

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00:11:46,489 --> 00:11:47,570
this is her court fee,

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00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:48,960
and then this was her comment,

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00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:49,880
I'm not making this up.

355
00:11:49,919 --> 00:11:51,520
This is truly what she said to Mya.

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00:11:52,599 --> 00:11:53,039
Well,

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00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:53,580
I mean,

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00:11:53,650 --> 00:11:56,979
all of the hours that she has given us for free

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00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,229
over the course of time that we've worked with her,

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00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:00,380
this is nothing.

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00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:03,729
That's her perception.

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00:12:04,210 --> 00:12:05,789
She knows the value.

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00:12:06,309 --> 00:12:06,570
By the way,

364
00:12:06,619 --> 00:12:08,369
I've worked with this family for almost 5 years,

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00:12:08,479 --> 00:12:11,530
so you can imagine how many hours I've given to them.

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00:12:11,770 --> 00:12:12,000
Of course,

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00:12:12,049 --> 00:12:14,809
you can also imagine how much money they've spent being with me for 5 years.

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00:12:14,890 --> 00:12:16,169
So it all evens out in the end.

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00:12:16,250 --> 00:12:16,549
But

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00:12:17,130 --> 00:12:17,940
she said,

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00:12:19,059 --> 00:12:19,330
I,

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00:12:19,619 --> 00:12:21,500
of all the hours that she's given to us,

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00:12:21,580 --> 00:12:22,299
this is nothing,

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00:12:22,380 --> 00:12:23,440
and she knows

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00:12:23,820 --> 00:12:28,859
the value of the consult hours that I've provided to her and to the child's dad.

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00:12:30,039 --> 00:12:30,559
So,

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00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:31,940
this is why we do this.

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00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,260
This is why we don't bill,

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00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,020
because families understand

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00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,900
your concern and your care is for the child,

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00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:40,940
and you're gonna give value.

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00:12:41,359 --> 00:12:42,200
That's really helpful.

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00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:42,520
So,

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00:12:42,530 --> 00:12:42,799
Sarah,

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00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,559
I'm so glad that you emailed in.

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00:12:44,669 --> 00:12:45,900
Thank you so much for that question.

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00:12:46,239 --> 00:12:47,000
Hope that that's helpful.

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00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,340
If y'all have any follow-up questions or you want me to clarify anything,

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00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:52,710
or you just want to say hello,

390
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,340
please email me brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

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00:12:55,599 --> 00:12:55,960
Love y'all.

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00:12:56,030 --> 00:12:56,820
We'll talk again soon.

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00:12:57,039 --> 00:12:57,280
Bye.

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00:12:58,309 --> 00:13:02,099
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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00:13:02,349 --> 00:13:04,270
For more episodes and resources,

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00:13:04,429 --> 00:13:09,190
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.