A Side the Media Never Showed | Charlie Puth

 There is a reason why I am the way that I am.
 Hi, I'm Charlie Puth.
 The musical prodigy at age 6.
 It's an all-round musical genius, Charlie Puth.
 Have you ever done an interview this open?
 No.
 I'm actually a little frightened.
 Why are you afraid to let people go?
 Because I'm afraid to be judged.
 It took me 18 years to sing in front of people.
 Kind of just started with my parents
 and then it trickled down from there.
 I came to understand how pivotal they were
 at the time when the world didn't yet believe it.
 I had this confidence that it was all going to work out.
 What would you write to that younger kid,
 that younger you, if you had to write him a note?
 I would say...
 Hello.
 Hello, hello.
 Welcome.
 Professor Puth.
 Oh, wow.
 It's so nice to meet you.
 Welcome.
 Come on.
 In this podcast, we sit out with some of the world's most successful people
 who reveal a person that believed in them before the world did.
 The conversations are deep, raw, and relatable.
 Special thanks to our friends at Canva for believing in us.
 Canva has a two-part mission,
 build one of the world's most valuable companies
 and then do the most good you can with it.
 They give their product free of charge to schools and nonprofits
 because they are on a mission
 to create equal opportunities that empower people all over the world.
 And finally, please like and subscribe this video.
 And if you're listening, please consider rating our podcast.
 Welcome to the person who believed in me.
 I'm David Begno.
 My guest today is Charlie Puth,
 a singer, songwriter, and producer
 with an ear that can turn a single sound into a feeling
 that a feeling into a song.
 But this is not going to be a conversation about the hits.
 It's about what came before them.
 It's about belief, the kind that shows up before there's proof,
 the kind that keeps showing up when a kid is talented but scared.
 You see, for Charlie, that belief came early
 and it came consistently.
 As he tells his story, you will begin to understand
 this wasn't encouragement from a distance.
 It was presence, sacrifice,
 and the willingness to keep putting him in rooms
 where courage was required.
 Please welcome to the show Charlie Puth.
 Thank you for having me.
 Great to have you.
 You have a very, very calming voice.
 Do I?
 I was very...
 It's rare for a voice to draw me in.
 That was...
 I kind of forgot where I was for a second.
 Well, since you have such perfect pitch, right?
 Is that what it is?
 Perfect pitch, is that what it's called?
 Yeah, okay.
 And you asked to, like, incense to start the interview.
 Right, because...
 Got me into the vibe.
 I do that because I'm usually pretty uptight in interviews.
 But past the 20-minute mark, once I'm like 30 minutes,
 I'll be like kind of slumped back in my chair.
 I'll be...
 So the smell's kind of calmed me down a little bit.
 Talk to me about the nervous with the interview.
 Is it...
 What brings that about?
 I think...
 I think I'm naturally a nervous person.
 Diagnose OCD, which is probably why...
 I know how to make music because I fixate on every sound.
 And I always believe that with one nudge here,
 or take something out here, subtract this, add this,
 it can transform the song even better.
 I just...
 But with that comes a lot of overthinking at times.
 And I can hear...
 And it's fine.
 I can hear the air condition.
 I can hear the bell learning the school children out,
 because I guess there's a school over there.
 I would assume that that's why that's happening.
 But once I'm settled in,
 and I'm familiar with my environment,
 and luckily you already have a very calming environment,
 I'm good.
 So I guess the smell is like something that I can't hear.
 It's the only thing that I can't hear.
 So maybe that provides some comfort for me.
 In my research about you,
 one of the things I loved was picking up on the detail
 that you sweat the small stuff.
 Oh, yeah.
 Always.
 I'm 34, I'm getting better at it,
 but I still do.
 But I don't know, but I don't mean to present it as a criticism.
 I'm saying when I look at somebody like you
 who is as successful as you are,
 I realize that maybe we condemn people for sweating the small stuff
 when that can be a positive too.
 How so?
 Well, so usually, like when I just said,
 sweat the small stuff,
 I think you received it as a potential negative, right?
 And you were like, well, I'm trying to work on it to get better.
 That is true.
 What if it's a positive?
 What if it's a good thing?
 What if it's part of the reason you're Charlie Pooth?
 Well, how could it be a good thing if I...
 It seems like...
 It seems like it's attached to a negative connotation.
 There was a whole book.
 Because the world has done that.
 The world has told us that sweating the small stuff
 is probably a waste of time.
 But I just wonder if sweating the small stuff
 is actually what people who are great in their field would say they do too?
 I think...
 I think it is the reason why I'm here with you at this granite table.
 I've...
 I've sweat the small stuff.
 Even...
 I've been so hard on myself.
 Oh, this is going to be a good interview.
 I've been so hard on myself for as long as I remember.
 And maybe that has to do with school upbringing.
 I have no idea.
 But it's just naturally how I've always been at 10 years old.
 I'd learn how to sequence a song on a little beat pad
 or sequence a little keyboard progression on a music sequencer.
 And I'd, in the early days of the internet,
 hear someone else do it better than me.
 And I'd be like, I'm just not good enough.
 And I need to get better at it.
 I still feel in ways.
 I'm not good enough.
 Isn't that sad?
 I'm not even saying that for fishing for compliments.
 I actually believe that.
 I don't think it's sad because what I think it is for you is actually your fuel.
 I think if you didn't have that,
 you didn't have that insecurity.
 I don't know that we'd be here today.
 No, we wouldn't.
 And I also have a fear of talking about myself too much,
 but I have to remind myself that we're in an interview
 and it's okay to talk about myself.
 But I, yeah, I never feel like I'm good enough.
 So let me say this to you.
 I can't relate to your singing.
 I can't relate to the music engineering, right?
 I love these Professor Pooth episodes that you do.
 And I remember thinking, how the hell does this guy know all this?
 Like, I know he can sing, but like, what is he?
 And then I realized, oh, you have a degree in literal music engineering.
 I was like, oh, that's why he knows all this stuff.
 I do, but I don't know if that's the reason why.
 Where does, where does that knowledge come from just incessant studying?
 Just, just actually taking the scholastics out of it
 and realizing that most people who enjoy music
 aren't really focused on the music theory.
 I felt like if I leaned in too heavy
 into the music theory element, I would lose 90% of people.
 But if I leaned into the human element,
 everybody can understand.
 Like, there's a lot of people that have babies
 and they can hear their baby's heartbeat for the first time
 and I had the pleasure of hearing my baby's heartbeat
 for the first time just a couple of months ago.
 And on the ride home, I thought to myself,
 well, that feels like a drum beat.
 Everybody has a heartbeat, so everybody can relate to that.
 Rather than the unhuman or rather non-human way
 of doing that would be, let's talk about BPMs
 to the average, you know, internet watcher,
 what's a BPM, but they know what a heartbeat is.
 So I kind of take the theory out of it.
 That's fascinating.
 To finish the point, I was going to make a moment ago.
 I can't relate to your singing,
 but I can relate to your struggle.
 How so?
 Because of your obsession with the little things.
 I can relate to your sense of insecurity.
 I can relate to the nerves that you feel,
 even though you're super successful.
 Right? Like, that's where everybody watching
 is going to be able to...
 And we're going to...
 There's going to be a long, wandering interview.
 But when I listened to your song, I used to be cringe.
 Yeah.
 Like, it was such an honest song
 and such a relatable song.
 Like, that song, I feel like, is a gift to your audience.
 We can't have this conversation, by the way,
 without something like this.
 Now the interview's about to get better.
 There you go.
 There you go.
 Even better than it already was.
 The power button? Yeah.
 Perfect.
 Oh, I know.
 Ooh, and it sounds good, too.
 That song, and there's a lot of people
 that haven't heard it yet.
 But it's one of the lovely times
 where it's just appeared in my head like it was already written.
 That's how every song that I've ever written
 has sounded like it's been written already in my head.
 Because I think it was written,
 you just weren't ready to sing it or just tell it yet.
 Correct.
 I heard the whole chord progression.
 This one.
 Kind of, like, you mentioned before you went to Catholic school.
 There's a lot of the music in Roman Catholic.
 What was the holy, holy song you were singing?
 The...
 God.
 Church.
 Roman Catholicism.
 Yes, yes.
 But they don't play that music anymore.
 And I felt like a fool when I went recently.
 And I didn't hear the same music.
 I'm like, why would you get rid of such great sounding music?
 They replaced it with nice sounding music.
 But I guess the standard isn't that anymore.
 I like the old stuff.
 I like the old stuff.
 I like the old stuff.
 We usually start every interview this way.
 And I'd like to, even though we start a little traditionally,
 present you with.
 Oh, man.
 Hmm.
 That.
 The most 2013.
 Do I show the camera can see this?
 No, no.
 We'll pop up the picture.
 But tell the audience listening who's not watching what we're looking at.
 We are...
 Okay.
 This is a picture that I'm looking at of my parents and I in the year 2013.
 I have a...
 Beanie.
 I got a great beanie.
 I got from Urban Outfitters.
 I am wearing a necklace that I got from the store in Malibu
 back in the day called Barrel.
 I remember that because first time I went to Malibu was in 2012.
 And I came back looking like a surfer, even though I can't surf.
 And these Ray Bans I bought in 2009 at the Laxatica shop in the Mammoth Mall,
 which I don't even know if it's still standing in the Mammoth Mall in Eaton Town, New Jersey.
 The fact that you remember all this.
 And this scarf that my mom is wearing I bought at a store called Essence outside the
 Ganservort in the Meepacking District after spending $400 on a hotel suite.
 They gave me a discount and I felt like I was the most important.
 It made me want to work really hard.
 This is me...
 What's going on in that kid's life when that picture is taken?
 YouTube reaching out to YouTubers independently and making their theme music.
 Like little, I'm just coming up with little ditties for them before their blogging show
 because vlogging and Tumblr were really a really big thing at the time.
 I kind of look like I was on Tumblr.
 You kind of look like a Tumblr.
 What was going on in that kid's head at that time?
 That I had this confidence that it was all going to work out.
 I think I had just finished my time at Berkeley College of Music in Massachusetts.
 And the thing about going to a performance art school is not like you're studying to be a doctor
 and then you went to the school.
 So now you have all these options of work to go to.
 You get your degree and then it's kind of up to you to figure out creatively, artistically, workwise where you're going to end up.
 And I ended up back in my parents' house, which is fine.
 I actually really enjoyed those eight months in January of 2014 and on until July when I went out to Los Angeles.
 But I would get discouraged sometimes because I was back home but I also loved being home.
 I was very comfortable.
 And I just told myself that it was all going to work out.
 Eventually I was going to go back to LA and something was going to happen.
 And the dream was to be a producer to make hits for other artists like Stargate
 who was a mechellent tour and Benny Blanco and be like them.
 Make records for other artists and be the go-to producer.
 And that's kind of how it started when I went out to LA.
 I made see you again for another, you know, as a pitch song.
 But I just sang the demo.
 In the back of my mind I wanted to be an artist but it was really all about,
 oh, Charlie has cool beats.
 If you want to hit, go to Charlie.
 That's what I was obsessed with.
 Did the Charlie kid think he could sing well?
 That Charlie thought he needed a lot of processing on his voice because even though I could hear the notes in my head
 I couldn't physically nail them all.
 So I would kind of deviate sometimes.
 So I would spend a lot of time fixing my voice and learning how to make it sound as natural as I could.
 So the person who believed in you usually, I don't like when guests come up with spouses or sisters or parents
 because it seems predictable.
 But I listened to the pre-interview.
 I could feel that in the pre-interview too.
 Because that's what, you know, my producing team knows and the person who heads up the show for us did a great interview
 and I listened to it.
 And I could tell that you put in some thought to picking your person.
 Yeah.
 And the people you picked are your parents.
 My parents, which for an interview for a show called the person who believed in me is maybe a boring answer.
 But the reason why I picked that answer is because it's spider webs out to a slew of different people.
 It wasn't just one particular person.
 It kind of just started with my parents and then it trickled down from there.
 Well, and for me, I came to understand how pivotal your parents were at times when other people were saying,
 no, you're either not enough or you're not doing it the right way.
 Correct.
 In fact, I want to jump right in.
 You tell a story about being in the swimming pool?
 Yeah.
 And your mother come and ripen you out.
 Because my dad wanted me to do sports.
 And the school I went to said I needed to do sports.
 And everybody was small town in New Jersey.
 Everybody did sports except me.
 I did them.
 I just didn't enjoy them.
 I would kick the dirt in the baseball field.
 Competitive swimming.
 I just get nervous around people.
 I still get nervous around people.
 You're one of the exceptions.
 I feel immediately comfortable.
 So that's good on you.
 Thank you.
 But my teammates, my classmates, I always felt like I felt a bit heightened.
 And like I could kind of describe that.
 I can hear everything they're saying.
 Even talking to Ellen and the pre Ellen Rockamore you're wonderful.
 Producer.
 Producer.
 Yeah.
 Producer.
 She's wonderful.
 Even I know her.
 So when I spoke to her in the pre-interview, I could tell she was saying,
 oh, maybe give a better answer than.
 Because we're always thinking of the non-predictable, right?
 Yeah.
 But when I listen to the rest of the pre-interview,
 I came to understand how your parents and their names are.
 Chuck and Deb.
 Chuck and Deb.
 I came to understand how pivotal they were to you at the time when the world didn't yet believe in you.
 And she understood it too.
 But to my point, I could feel energetically what she was feeling before it was felt before she said it.
 And that applies to everybody I meet or have known in a long time.
 It's almost like it's kind of psychic.
 And I don't want the headline to be Charlie says he's psychic because I'm not psychic.
 But I can just, I'm sensitive to sound and sound comes out of people.
 So the splash of the pool, the laughter, the cheering, the air horn that the annoying drunk dad would bring.
 It's all playing.
 If you can hear it at 100%, I'm hearing it at 200%.
 I'm not the only one who experiences this.
 It's just everything is so loud.
 I can imagine somebody listening to that and being like, oh, wow, that is psychic or whatever they might think.
 But I also wonder if it's also terrible and awful and agonizing.
 It is.
 I have a nausea patch on my stomach right now because it goes, if I feel terrible, it goes right to my gut and I feel sick.
 And sound, if I don't call, if I don't like the way things sound, it'll make me feel sick.
 What was me?
 I'm very fortunate.
 I've had a lot of success.
 I'm talking to you here.
 I've worked through this.
 It's still not a highlight of my life that I just, I'm so affected.
 I have to circle the block before entering a hotel sometimes because if there's going to be a lot of people in the lobby, it's not that they're there.
 Really, sometimes they don't even know me.
 It's just the sounds.
 I need to go when it's quiet.
 This is fascinating.
 Is it?
 It's agonizing to me.
 So agonizing, I understand.
 Fascinating because I guarantee you you're not alone.
 No.
 And also fascinating because I don't guess any of this when I see you.
 I see like this guy with great hair, with this $10 million smile,
 who's living out in Santa Barbara and has a beautiful wife and is like going on tour.
 And like, then you talk about what you just didn't.
 I'm like, oh, so he's like the rest of us.
 No, it's like music is see I'm going to get like it's music is the only thing that can...
 Oh my god.
 It's the only thing I can play it in my head right now and it can make me feel better.
 And that's the only other than my wife, that's the only thing that can do that.
 And it's, it's like, it's like scary that like sometimes that like I don't have access to it.
 But just why I love having my piano.
 Would you play something now just to give yourself some comfort?
 Bring you something.
 I just get like overwhelmed.
 It's a lot.
 Even that I just, there was a, do you remember a show called Jimmy Neutron?
 Of course.
 At the end there was like, there was a, I guess a production studio called, I don't remember
 what it was called, but it was a monkey that said, ha ha, I'm Paul.
 And that, that, that sound just reminded me of that outro.
 And it reminded me of being a kid just watching Nickelodeon and like, ha ha, I'm Paul.
 Nickelodeon logo.
 That's it.
 So now I feel better.
 I'm insane.
 I just, but I, I'm so afraid to let people in and notice because like I've just, it's so weird
 and it's rare that someone I've just me can bring that out of me.
 Why are you afraid to let people in?
 I've always been afraid to let people in because I'm afraid to be judged.
 It took me 18 years to sing in front of people, not that I was singing in front of anybody as a baby,
 you would think, I travel the world and my job is to sing for people.
 And I wouldn't do it at 18 years old.
 I was terrified.
 Well, there's this great story of your dad worked in the construction business.
 Yeah.
 Took a day off.
 Yeah.
 Spent 12 to 14 hours sitting with you in line for a competition.
 Yeah.
 Are we allowed to say what that competition was?
 Yeah.
 America's got talent.
 I know sometimes they don't like it.
 And you get up there and you say, I can't do it.
 I'll beatbox promiscuous.
 And I'll beatbox drop it like it's like hot.
 But I need music behind me.
 I can't just sing a capella for you right now, judges, three judges.
 I need something behind me and I can play piano.
 I can play a nice Quincy Jones sounding chord.
 But I can't sing a capella to you right now.
 I'm not going to sing, you know, torn by, I can't, I need something behind me.
 So that was going to be one of my questions.
 Because in the pre-interview, I heard you say to the team that melody is where you find comfort
 and expressing yourself.
 Oh, yeah.
 And so my question that I thought was, do you like to sing a capella?
 And you're saying no.
 No, I still, I can do it.
 I still don't love it, even not being in front of the piano.
 I still have, and it's just the microphone.
 I still have, I'm not as comfortable as I am behind the piano as I am.
 I sang the other night, Jeff Goldblum invited me to the troubadour to accompany him on stage.
 And he plays piano, and I wasn't going to get behind the piano,
 just have Jeff Goldblum stand on stage.
 He plays the piano, and I'm going to sing, be which bothered and be wildered.
 And I was really nervous at the first 30, 45 seconds.
 But luckily the audience was there for me, and they liked the song,
 and I kind of warmed up into it.
 But it's interesting that I still at this stage of my career,
 I'm not cocky and comfortable right away.
 I never walk out on stage and be like, the rock star is here,
 because I don't feel like a rock star.
 Have people ever misread your insecurity as cockiness?
 Yes, they've, I think on the internet,
 I, a lot of people may think that I'm arrogant,
 and they don't know that, they don't know the whole situation
 about the sounds being loud and everything I explained before.
 But I watch it back, and I understand why they think it may come off as arrogant.
 I don't want to hear this right now.
 Because it's weird.
 What do you watch back?
 Give me an example.
 Like, if someone's at a show and they're filming me
 because they want to watch the concert back,
 and someone plays an off note, or I ask the crowd,
 he's a good example, I ask the crowd to sing along,
 and someone goes slightly off pitch.
 I, I wins like this.
 And that's very rude.
 Obviously, that's very rude.
 I try, and I've gotten a lot better at not letting it affect me,
 but it's almost like this.
 I think to anybody else watching it who doesn't have the correct context,
 they're looking at that, thinking,
 oh, we're not worthy of being musical in front of the music guy.
 It's nothing to do with that.
 It's like, it's a literal gut punch to me when something is rubbing the wrong way.
 It has nothing to do with that person singing.
 I want them to come sing on pitch and off pitch at my shows.
 I, I just want them to do it together because it just, I don't know.
 Even, I feel like this sounds rude right now.
 I want everybody to come to my show and as themselves.
 It's just, it's just who I am.
 It doesn't matter where or when it is.
 It's if something's off key or sounds weird to me,
 or even smells weird.
 Like, I'm gonna, I wear my emotions on my face.
 I don't know, what do you, what do you make of that?
 I feel like it might come off. It's pretty elitist.
 I need to take a moment just to thank Canva for backing this podcast.
 Their support is what makes these conversations possible.
 Canva's guided by a clear idea.
 Build something incredibly valuable and then use it to do real good in the world.
 That's why they provide their tools free of charge to schools and nonprofits,
 helping to create equal access and opportunity for people all over the world.
 So, when I, because I only knew you from social media until right now,
 you came off as a master of your craft.
 But I didn't see any vulnerability until I started to read the pre-interview.
 And then I realized, oh shit, this dude really is in his head about a lot of crap.
 Of course. And I suddenly was able to relate.
 And I went back and actually I was watching my resume tape
 from when I was 18 years old in television,
 because I got hired right out of high school anchoring the news.
 And it was so cringe for me to watch it that I like, I couldn't.
 Like it was so cringe, but I remember in that moment, Charlie,
 thinking I'm cringe watching it, but like I know where that kid was back then.
 He was trying to do the best he thought he could to impress people in the best way.
 And it kind of sounds like a little bit of what you're talking about, right?
 Over the course of your life, being what you now perceive to be as cringe.
 You were showing up the best way you knew how.
 Is that not right?
 Absolutely. I was trying to be the pop star.
 I was trying to be with people, what I thought people wanted me to be.
 That's the male pop star singing about a breakup.
 That did he just say what?
 What did he do?
 But that's also because I was told to in the early days of me being signed
 to kind of stir the pot a little bit.
 I was also being advised incorrectly.
 What do you mean?
 Meaning like make up fake controversy about people you don't know.
 And that's the way people will be curious and want to listen to your music.
 Did nothing for me.
 And it actually...
 I believe I delayed people getting to know me.
 Like you said, you watch all of my videos and listen to my music.
 You don't really know me.
 There are certain artists who put all of themselves into their music
 and at times it's heartbreaking, but they're understood by their fans
 because they put 100% of it into the art.
 I've put 45, 46% into the art.
 And I was afraid to let everybody else know about everything else.
 But with this new album, you go there.
 I do.
 I mean, this song I used to be cringe you thought was too stupid to sing initially.
 Yeah.
 It sounded stupid to me for a year.
 It sounded like a gelopy going up and down like a San Francisco road.
 That's what it sounded like in my head.
 And the lyric, I used to be cringe.
 But when I sang it a bit more delicate, everybody...
 I remember my engineer Ben.
 He was like, are you still putting that cringe song on the album?
 No, it sounds like a gelopy going down to San Francisco Street.
 And he looked at me like, what are you talking about?
 I relate heavily to that song.
 I feel like a lot of people were relate to that song.
 That's what I'm talking about.
 Have you experienced the benefit of vulnerability yet
 to where you lock in on understanding that it actually is now going to be a key part of your success?
 I feel like I will.
 I don't feel like I've experienced it commercially.
 Okay.
 So then it might happen with this album.
 I think it could happen with this album.
 I would like for it to happen with this album, not just because I want commercial success.
 But I want to feel understood.
 I want people to understand me because it's kind of hard.
 It's been hard in the past to go on radio shows where you have 10 minutes and try and talk about your life.
 It just doesn't exist.
 It doesn't happen on most TV shows.
 It happens here.
 So what do you want people to...
 In addition to what we've already said, what do you want people to understand?
 I want people to know that I want to...
 I just want to take care of them.
 I just want to make everybody happy with the sound.
 I don't know why I get like this because I can hear it.
 I can hear it in my head before it happens.
 The tour we just put up is somehow...
 Not somehow.
 That's me downplaying it again.
 It's our best-selling tour so far.
 We've sold the most amount of tickets and there is no hit right now out of what we put out.
 It doesn't mean that there's not going to be.
 But we've sold the most amount of tickets.
 We're going to sell out Madison Square Garden in like three days.
 That's never happened to me.
 I've had a number one song and I couldn't sell 3000 tickets.
 Which...
 So what do you attribute that to?
 Just me starting to let people into my life finally.
 Music and non-musical.
 I think this interview is going to be big for you.
 Because we have the time and the space to really open up.
 But I would love to see more of this on your social.
 Because I watch your social.
 But it's perfect.
 It's the prettiest.
 It's the most perfect explanations.
 It's edited so quietly.
 I'd love to see some of this.
 I don't know how to do this without someone bringing it out of me.
 And I'm really happy that you're bringing it out of me.
 I didn't expect it to happen on a Tuesday morning here.
 I don't...
 I'm still learning how to...
 Do you feel like you surround yourself with people who bring it out of you?
 No.
 Okay.
 I don't.
 Sometimes...
 I mean, but I do with my parents.
 Of course.
 My parents bring it out.
 My family brings it out of me.
 But I don't always want to...
 I can't get with this.
 Like this with them.
 Understood.
 And I think moments like these are not meant to happen every second of every day.
 And maybe not every day.
 But I think a key question would be...
 How can I put somebody in my life that leads to moments like this?
 Wait, my wife does.
 Of course. I would imagine, yeah.
 Sorry, I'm still just like...
 My wife absolutely does.
 Yeah.
 Pregnant wife, by the way.
 My pregnant wife does.
 Do we know if it's a boy or a girl?
 We do. I've been instructed not to tell.
 Okay. Well, I'm not pushing that.
 I've also been instructed not to tell.
 No, no, I understand that.
 But okay, so you've got the name, you know the sex.
 Have you played beats for the baby?
 Yeah, I sing to baby.
 Good.
 Mom explains to baby what I do for a living.
 I'm still fixated on that question of why...
 I don't...
 I don't surround myself with people who are bringing it out of me.
 Well, let's unpack that.
 Why?
 Because that's frightening to me.
 And I'm worried about coming off is...
 Remember when you would...
 Do you ever watch Full House?
 Of course, yeah.
 And do you remember when...
 I remember there was this episode where...
 Stephanie or one of the girls was going to the gym
 and really wanted to be skinny.
 This was the 90s.
 And this is what the episode was based around.
 I don't know if you could get away with this nowadays.
 She was working out at the gym and she falls
 and Danny Tanner goes up to her
 and says, what's wrong?
 She was like, and she breaks down and says,
 I want to be like one of those girls on the magazines
 and then you hear this...
 You know, this music on this...
 Not that.
 Where's the piano, so?
 What's wrong?
 You know you can talk to me like it's so corny.
 It felt so corny to me and it was such a nice sentiment.
 But then when the music came in with the violins and like...
 There's something wrong with...
 Sounds beautiful then.
 It just...
 So the music didn't make it more palatable?
 No, it made it corny to me.
 And that music plays if I...
 I can't even go up to like...
 I can say it to my wife but I can't go up to my brother and be like...
 I can't even say it now.
 You know what Stephen,
 you and I have been through...
 Sure, but you sing it.
 You put it in song.
 You sing it.
 And on this album you've got this song about your brother.
 Yes.
 That's because...
 I'm similar to the America's Got Talent audition.
 Yeah.
 I have music behind me.
 Everything is woven and correlated to each other in my life.
 So vulnerability is easier for you when there's a melody behind it?
 Sound in general.
 And if I didn't have sound,
 I'm like nothing.
 It's just...
 I lay...
 I can't sleep sometimes because if I didn't have my music,
 I don't know if I'd even be living.
 I don't know what. I wouldn't even be here.
 I have never sat with someone who...
 literally was...
 It's beautiful.
 Literally was emotional thinking about the benefits of music.
 It's amazing.
 It's like...
 And it's only because I can hear it in my head so vividly.
 I remember sitting with Quincy Jones right before he died.
 And he's...
 He turned to me and said,
 isn't music amazing?
 It's just like...
 That...
 How did I...
 I was living at home in 2013 and now I'm sitting
 with Quincy Jones.
 That is a very nice piano.
 Boyzendorfer of the most amazing piano I had ever heard.
 It was so rich and perfect and...
 and sound.
 And he turns to me.
 He had always had a popsicle.
 And he was...
 We were sat next to each other on a piano bench.
 He was like, isn't music amazing?
 And it's just like...
 If you say that,
 what? Yeah, music's great, whatever.
 Because I know the way you feel about music,
 it's going to completely change the way I listen to your music.
 Honestly, I mean that.
 The first time I heard changes,
 on the album,
 which I love.
 I love that song changes.
 The first time I heard it,
 emotional you are.
 About music,
 it's going to expand my experience of listening to your music.
 Do you understand now what I mean when I say
 when you open up like this?
 Yeah.
 It is game-changing for you and the consumer.
 Absolutely.
 I just...
 Now I might see the OCDs kicking in the back of my head.
 When I leave this interview,
 how am I going to do what he says?
 How am I...
 I start to overthink.
 I find one person,
 potentially someone already in your life
 who becomes an accountability partner for you.
 And the accountability partner request is,
 hey, can we carve out some time twice a week
 to kind of sit down and talk through some of that vulnerability?
 That's what you do.
 Some people go to therapy.
 Some people do it like, you know,
 for me it's easier to do it.
 It's easier for me to do it with strangers.
 That it is with people I love.
 It's always been easier for me to do it with strangers.
 For some reason.
 But my mom and my dad and my wife,
 I guess my family are the exception.
 You can do it with them.
 I can do it with them, not as immediate.
 But with strangers, it's immediate.
 What do you think they will think
 when they watch this interview?
 The after-school music is going to...
 I feel like they'll eventually think it's nice,
 but I know that my sister would watch this
 and they're like,
 oh, that's the noise.
 We joke around.
 Like when things get too after-school special
 sounding the full-house music,
 McHale and I look each other like,
 cringe.
 Yeah.
 What did Donny Glover say
 that you heard that was a quote that stuck with you?
 I'm paraphrasing,
 but I believe it was something to the rounds of
 no one's ever going to look back
 and say that they weren't cringe enough.
 Donny Glover said that.
 Right?
 That hit me because I've seen Donny Glover
 at the Greenwich Hotel working out
 with justice underwear on.
 He's unapologetically an artist.
 He just...
 He does what he wants
 and he shows up when he shows up.
 I have a lot of respect
 for him musically as well.
 What happens if baby poof gets the musical talent
 but also picks up
 all of this?
 Don't you want to do the work
 to be able to help?
 Yeah, and that was the time to start.
 Exactly.
 And you're doing it with this album?
 Yes, I had to do it with this album.
 I had to...
 I have to have it figured out
 because I can't be...
 in my mind, I can't be sitting here crying
 when my child is eight years old looking for advice.
 I have to rise to the occasion
 and give the correct advice.
 But maybe that's, again,
 me being hard on myself.
 That's my parents' childhood, right?
 I want to really dig in
 to exploring how they believed in you.
 What did the musical teachers
 when you were a kid think?
 They thought that
 if I go to classical conservatory
 that I should be primarily
 and only focusing on classical music,
 I went to Manhattan School of Music,
 which was the old Juliard
 in Harlem,
 and there was a jazz program
 and there was a classical program.
 And I don't know if it's like this today,
 but the jazz kids didn't talk
 to the classical kids in vice versa.
 I got into both programs.
 I wasn't as proficient
 at classical piano
 as I was at jazz at the time,
 but I was relentless
 and I really wanted to prove
 that I could be in the classical program
 and the jazz program.
 And it was my parents
 who were championing that.
 And I'll never forget
 when my mom came up.
 And I was on YouTube
 looking at music videos
 and she said she came up
 with the letter
 and said that I'm trying, sorry,
 I'm trying not to.
 It's just take your time.
 Take your time.
 She came up.
 And I think she cries
 and she was so proud
 when she held the acceptance letter.
 This is when people would still mail things
 to your mailbox and she
 held up the signed acceptance letter
 into the classical program.
 And now I've forgotten
 why I'm talking about this,
 but they were the ones
 championing that
 from the very start.
 You were talking about classical
 for the teacher's thought you should stick in that genre.
 Oh, right.
 Like energy.
 Like I would finish my classical lesson
 and the teacher would ask where I'm going next.
 I'm going into my jazz piano lesson now.
 And she would be like,
 make sure you read the music.
 Don't use your ear.
 It's like,
 but I always wondered.
 And I didn't really have a lot of credibility back then.
 And I wasn't even as good as pianists as my teachers.
 But I would say to them things like
 are there any recordings
 of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart?
 And they're like, no.
 So how do we even know
 if this is the way
 that it was intended to be played?
 And they would say, well,
 it's written on the paper.
 And I was like, but yeah,
 but we don't have a recording of it.
 Like how do we know?
 Like one of someone
 one of somebody messed up the manuscript.
 Like how do we even know
 if C is a C?
 Like,
 this could sound completely different.
 And like if the,
 if Mozart were here,
 would he be happy that this is the way
 that we're playing sonatina and C major?
 Like we have recordings of jazz.
 We have Ornette Coleman playing St. Thomas.
 And we have Bill Evans playing
 an Oscar,
 Peterson Song. We have Miles Davis,
 et cetera, et cetera.
 So we have proof of that.
 And she would say, well,
 recordings of rock mononov
 because that was a 19th century recording.
 I'm like, okay, so we know how to play
 nocturn and C sharp minor
 because there's a recording of that.
 And then it would have them thinking
 and then I'm sure
 by the end of this kid is so annoying.
 So I mean, you like you talk
 about wanting to listen to Eminem.
 Yeah. What they think about that?
 They were pissed.
 And in Catholic school,
 they weren't happy with that either.
 We used to, there was this song
 with D12 called Remember Me
 and my parents would be listening to it
 in our 1999 GMC Suburban.
 And we listened to, there's a,
 it's right before it.
 That's why they call me sling shady.
 Back, back. It's a song right before it.
 And it's just like the
 nastiest 2001 distortion
 talking about X, Y, and Z.
 It's just like Eminem.
 It's just like Eminem.
 Just like at his lyrical best.
 And my parents would be
 in the front seats.
 Remember me.
 And the air.
 Remember back.
 Like we had the edited version.
 And I remember it so vividly.
 My parents loved the fact
 that I was listening to
 Limp Biscuit.
 And Eminem just, they just asked
 if I would get the clean version
 of it.
 Nothing great is done in a straight line.
 Nothing great is done in a straight line.
 What you're telling me is that you were
 at odds with yourself
 and what people thought
 over the course of your life.
 Right? You were doing classical.
 You wanted Eminem, right?
 Because of my one, you and the pool.
 They were there. You like,
 you've always
 beat to your own damn drum.
 Yes. And my mom and dad,
 she was on her own for most of her life.
 Oh.
 18 and on.
 She knows what it's like
 to have everything
 and then suddenly have nothing.
 Okay.
 I mean,
 yeah, I mean, I don't know if I want to get into that.
 But like, there's no reason.
 And you don't need to, but there's some history here
 that runs in the family.
 Yeah, there is a reason why
 I am the way that I am.
 The reason your mother was so
 eff them,
 when people wanted to put you in a box
 was because she was acting on her own experience.
 Yeah. Absolutely.
 Sorry.
 But that's kind of beautiful though, Charlie.
 Like now, now it helps me understand
 your mom's drive
 to be so adamant
 that people not
 define you.
 Yeah. That's why
 my mom being the answer to this is
 a less boring answer.
 Now I guess. Now I get it.
 But you didn't share this in the pre-interview.
 No. I knew I was going to,
 but again, it's hard for me.
 We only had 30 minutes.
 Of course, of course. Of course.
 Pacing around my driveway.
 What more do you maybe want to share about mom's experience
 and how it impacted yours?
 I just think
 growing up I saw
 a lot of people
 misunderstand.
 My mom, my mom,
 is a Jewish lady
 who would teach
 in a Catholic school.
 And I remember
 people in the school saying
 things about her because she was Jewish.
 But I just always
 just saw her
 just do things for the love of music.
 It was never about anything else.
 It was about just teaching
 and imparting wisdom
 in school. And when she would roll her
 cart in with the piano,
 she
 like all of the chatter would go away
 because she had a way
 of bringing people in with music.
 We wouldn't listen to
 all the Catholic hymns and whatnot
 when she'd bring in the Beatles
 and I need a piano sound here.
 She would be
 if I fell in love with you
 would you promise to be true?
 Would you promise to be true
 and help me?
 And she was like, that's
 chromatic. Those are chromatic notes.
 In that melody
 you can hear chromatic notes
 next to each other. That means
 the notes are closer to each other.
 I just realized that's probably
 why I teach on the internet.
 It probably comes from my mom.
 She's my first music teacher.
 She was my first music teacher.
 I never even realized that.
 Sometimes I'm not even honest with myself.
 But I just
 I
 don't
 I've had a very fortunate life
 and I don't want
 I have such a fear
 of overseeing
 things
 and acting like the victim
 because I don't even know why I'm saying that right now.
 But let's just come back to
 you constantly feel
 that sharing
 is cringe.
 So I think what's going to happen
 is as you get up on stage around the world
 and you start to sing that cringe song.
 And it becomes
 an anthem for people like you.
 It's going to go from being
 the thing that is the most difficult thing
 for you to sing
 to the thing that makes you
 relate the most to your audience.
 Yeah. I always thought
 that that song should
 come out soon
 even though I resisted
 finishing writing it
 for such a long time.
 I always thought that that.
 It's an F major.
 It's a key for everybody.
 I can hear everyone around the world screaming that.
 So when you found that F major
 that's when you felt the permission
 to then go do the song.
 I was on my way
 to a restaurant
 in Studio City, or Sherman Oaks,
 called Anna Jack Ty.
 Did that place great? Oh my god.
 It's so good.
 It was my wife's birthday.
 Taylor Swift had just
 released a song with my name in it.
 So I was kind of excited.
 I was like, wow, this is such a great complement.
 And I got a rush of musical
 ideas.
 And the idea that stuck out
 I used to be cringed.
 Because she's very honest in her music.
 So I thought, well, what would my
 version of that be if I were as honest?
 What did Taylor say in the song about you?
 That I should be a
 bigger artist,
 which I agree with that.
 That would be nice.
 But I think a bigger artist needs to
 become a bigger artist when they open up.
 And I feel like I'm not where I'm at
 because I haven't opened up.
 Okay, but
 the journey to open up.
 Have you ever done an interview this
 open? No. Yeah.
 I'm actually a little frightened.
 For some reason, talking about my mom,
 I get a little scared sometimes because
 I'm a pretty private person, but
 I don't want to air everybody's business out.
 No, no, no. What it helped me understand was
 why your mom is someone who you think
 believed in you. Because when you said it
 initially in the pre-interview, I was like,
 of course she's going to show up for you like that.
 But then when you started to unpack all of that,
 again, I guarantee you some people watching
 are going to have a mom who went through
 a similar experience and are going to
 understand why you would say your mom is
 the person who believed in you. I mistated
 earlier what you said was you don't like feeling
 like the victim. Yeah.
 Because I'm successful
 and I've had
 tour around the world.
 It's not victimhood, Charlie. It's vulnerability.
 But I feel like someone's going to
 put a clip of this stuff on Twitter or something.
 Okay, but let's say they do.
 At the end of the day,
 what we know is you can't control
 what people are going to do.
 So the music is out there.
 Yeah. Has it felt
 vindicating for you to sing it?
 I haven't really, I don't feel like
 I've really experienced it yet because
 I haven't gotten, I haven't really performed
 other than a few small performances.
 I haven't really played changes. I haven't
 really played beat yourself up.
 You played it on New Year's Eve.
 I played it on the audience.
 I played on New Year's Eve.
 They loved it. Everyone's partying.
 I haven't done my own show
 where people drove two, three hours,
 maybe even flew there to hear me sing
 and I haven't delivered the message yet.
 So I've just, in my mind
 and I tell my team this,
 I've put two songs out.
 Well, I know things take longer now,
 but I just want to be understood.
 I think what's cool is you're also
 wanting to open up at a time when the world
 is at a place where conversations
 like this have never been more accepted.
 When you and I were growing up,
 we're relatively the same age,
 minus eight or ten years.
 But when we were growing up,
 there weren't these kind of vulnerability conversations
 like they are now.
 2020.
 It was all about things being
 facetuned and pristine and perfect.
 Right. Right.
 But your Instagram is pretty
 perfect. That's what I'm saying.
 I'd like some imperfect Charlie on there.
 Just I don't know.
 Yeah. You just don't know how to do it.
 But now I'm going to figure it out.
 Good. It's kind of like when someone told,
 like my mom always told me to write a song
 that everybody will sing.
 And then a month later I wrote
 a song to see you again.
 Yeah. I'll figure it out now
 that you told me to do it.
 It's such a big year because you've got the album
 and you've got the baby.
 It's a lot.
 And we're building a house.
 And we're where I'm
 the get this. The baby is due.
 The day the album comes out.
 Okay. I don't know how that happened.
 But I just like
 it's going to be a lot.
 Like I will just had a baby
 and I'm going to be on the road.
 Like I haven't really even come to terms with that yet.
 I'm really excited to see my fans.
 But I want my kid to know who I am.
 If your wife were here, what would she tell me
 about why she loves you the most?
 If my wife were here right now,
 what would she say?
 She would probably like make me feel a lot better.
 I probably do an equal amount of crying.
 But what would she say about me?
 Well, I think about what she said about me
 in our vows when we said them
 and we ended up saying the same thing
 at the end that
 we always knew that we were meant for each other.
 That's how we ended our vows.
 And she would probably just echo
 on the theme of that.
 She'd probably just echo everything
 that I'm saying about myself.
 That I don't,
 that I do sweat the small stuff.
 And we know that that's not a bad thing.
 Not necessarily a bad thing,
 which she would agree with.
 I didn't understand that at first when you said it,
 but she would have understood that right away.
 I feel like you would be,
 if she were here, it would just be like another version of me.
 But maybe
 a version that spoke a little bit more eloquently.
 I feel like I kind of trip over my words sometimes.
 She doesn't listen to music.
 Like,
 her car radio is off all the time.
 Like, I need to crank music.
 Does she like you singing in the house?
 You know, something funny.
 She said, why do you never sing to yourself in the house?
 She asked, Charlie, why do you never sing
 to yourself in the house?
 And I said, well, because I sing in my head.
 She was like, well,
 why don't you just like, you know,
 when you're,
 making a smoothie or something,
 you never hum or anything.
 And I realized I,
 I guess it's because my job,
 I never hum to myself.
 And maybe it feels kind of silly.
 So I,
 I purposely will try and hum
 and sing a song,
 but then I remind myself,
 I remind myself,
 well, that's now you forcing it.
 Are you a people, please?
 Absolutely.
 Have you ever felt depressed
 based on all these feelings that you've described?
 Yeah, absolutely.
 But I come out of it.
 I have a very,
 it's a very interesting thing
 where I can come out of it
 immediately no matter how low,
 no matter how bad it is.
 If I hear
 you put a move on my heart by
 to me or
 how much I feel
 or a James Taylor song.
 If I hear like a song that I love
 or the Real Slim Shady,
 it's like I'm a completely different person.
 What song on your album makes you feel the best?
 There's a song called Cry.
 Track number three,
 which I just,
 I love the sonic richness
 of it. That song makes me feel really like,
 like a confident musician,
 because I made it.
 Do you think you've made it?
 Professionally.
 Professionally, I feel like I'm on my way up.
 I feel
 I do feel like I've made it
 in a sense of
 how much I've accomplished,
 but I feel like there's a lot more
 to go for me.
 How about personally?
 I feel like I change every year.
 I look at myself
 doing an interview at 25 years old,
 speaking with a weird accident, trying to be a cool guy,
 and I try not to criticize myself,
 but I just look at that.
 I'm like, oh, that's just a young man
 with his frontal lobe
 not fully developed yet.
 What would you,
 you got to give yourself a break?
 What would you write to that younger kid
 that younger you
 if you had to write him a note?
 Write myself a song.
 What would you do if you wrote it?
 Because you would probably put it into a song.
 What would you want to say?
 I would say
 something I would say to myself
 today, and it's just not that serious.
 It's all going to work out.
 It doesn't have to be
 so immaculately perfect.
 People gravitate towards imperfections,
 because the imperfections
 make it human
 in this day and age.
 The imperfections make it human.
 Absolutely.
 And the human is where the success comes.
 Absolutely.
 But sometimes it's hard for me
 to remember that,
 even though I preach it.
 I have to practice what I preach.
 Carol King, one of the best songwriters
 of all time,
 wrote, it's too late.
 In the background,
 I remember a teacher at Berkeley
 showing me
 he reversed the phase of the song
 and you could hear the background.
 Carol's background is really
 prominently.
 There was one track where
 in the days where we couldn't fix your vocals right away.
 There was a track that was a little off tune
 and
 I took it and nudged it
 and it felt like a completely different song.
 It didn't sound good anymore
 because that note was now perfect.
 You listen to the landslide
 by Stevie Nicks.
 There are certainly,
 it's one of the most amazing songs ever written.
 And she deviates
 from the key sometimes.
 It's not a perfect vocal,
 but it's perfect because she sang it.
 I think
 going back to the OCD
 and the obsessing over things being perfect,
 I think people
 didn't get a lot out of me
 because it was so
 squeaky clean.
 And I would say that this album is the opposite.
 So well said.
 When I listen to Taylor's music,
 you mentioned her
 mentioning you
 like what's great about her music
 is the
 she writes about.
 It's the stories she tells.
 And the best stories are not the ones you make up.
 The best stories
 are the ones you feel comfortable sharing
 because they're true and they're authentic.
 And the great thing about your life
 after being able to sit with you
 and this has been
 such a great conversation
 is that I actually feel like I can relate to you.
 I've been listening to your music for years.
 But I
 didn't feel a connection to you in any way
 in a way that would make me go buy a ticket.
 I didn't feel a connection
 in a way that made me download all your stuff.
 Like there were a few hits and it was great.
 If you just stop me on the street
 I'd be like, he's great.
 Yes.
 That's about it.
 Yes. You win a million other people.
 I wouldn't have had a whole lot to say.
 But after this
 I got a lot to say
 and a lot to relate to.
 Have you ever felt overly earnest?
 Meaning like earnest.
 Like you take it so seriously
 and that's put right?
 Of course you do.
 I have been.
 A perfectionist in a way that has
 made it difficult for you to have relationships with people.
 Absolutely.
 Yes, me too.
 Again, I can't sing.
 I don't know about the music professor
 poop talks about.
 But like dude, that's the human
 that connects us.
 This is what makes me want to go to a concert.
 Now my mind.
 This is where my mind's at.
 I see a huge checklist
 and you're at the top of the checklist.
 And I have a green pen.
 And I just made one check.
 But then it's like Santa's list.
 I have a million other green checks.
 Because and you'll continue
 to keep adding boxes to check.
 But I think this album
 is going to open up conversations
 with people
 who wouldn't about a ticket but will now.
 I hope so.
 Because it's not enough to just put a song out now.
 It's just you need to
 attach your personality to it
 which is
 something I've resisted.
 But your pain too.
 Don't leave pain out.
 Personality is great.
 You got to attach your pain to it.
 Yeah.
 We all have pain.
 I guess I wanted people to think that I had
 everything figured out for a long time.
 Yeah. Yeah.
 And at a certain age that makes complete sense.
 So until today like me
 is through a conversation about struggle.
 Not about success.
 You're right.
 You're going to do a lot of interviews with people
 who were going to fall all over you
 and talk about hits and all that.
 And I didn't want to do that.
 Yeah. I really appreciate that too.
 Because that makes me feel like
 I'm not God.
 I just love what I do.
 And I hope I can make someone's day better
 with a couple beats.
 I think you're going to be a little better understood
 after this conversation.
 From your mouth to God's ears,
 I would love that.
 How do you feel about this?
 How do you feel today when?
 Really, really great.
 And I actually do think a lot of people
 will watch this and understand me more.
 I'm not just saying that.
 It's like a nice book end to the interview.
 I actually do believe that.
 Well, it wasn't an interview.
 It was a conversation.
 And my hope for you is that you're open
 to having more conversations
 with more strangers.
 Because that is where
 you're going to connect.
 And I think your success is like
 you're going to be like,
 I didn't know it could go that much further,
 that much higher.
 I want to experience that.
 This is how you do it.
 It's on the horizon.
 Thank you.
 Thank you for this.
 I thought you might want to know.
 But this podcast is at the heart of a company
 I founded called Do Good Crew.
 I've spent 25 years telling stories.
 It used to be the bad news.
 And now I want to focus on the good news.
 The everyday heroes who are doing
 extraordinary things.
 You can join us.
 We do live events.
 But we also have the newsletter.
 It's free.
 You can sign up for it by going to www.TheDoGoodCrew.
 This show was created by me, David Beggnow.
 Our executive producers are Ellen Rockamora
 and Olivier Delphoss.
 Our booker is Sully Block.
 Director of photography is Foster Parks.
 Our theme music was created by Slippstream.
 Post production and edit
 done by Longwave Digital.
 This podcast was brought to you by our friends at Canva.
 If you're interested in more stories
 about people doing good in this world,
 go sign up for our free newsletter
 at www.TheDoGoodCrew.com.