177 | Q&A Lightning Round #7: Five Questions From Three Listeners Answered

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class and child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode. I'm going to do a mini lightning round.

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So I'm gonna be answering five questions from three listeners.

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But before I get into the questions, I want to share an email that I received

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from Tammy in Ireland

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and she was sharing a little bit about her journey and finding CCPT

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and working with a child.

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And it was kind of a little case study vignette if you will,

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that she shared in the email

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and I was given permission to read parts of it.

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So I want you all to hear what her experience was because I think that it

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resonates with all of us when we think back to one of the

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earliest times that we were just in awe of the process working,

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even when we weren't really sure how or why it was working.

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So, Tammy,

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thank you so much for emailing and thanks for giving me permission to share this.

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So

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she said there's no need to respond at all, which of course I did. But anyway,

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I'm just now starting my journey in play therapy

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and I only have about 50 hours under my belt.

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So then she goes on to say that she found the podcast.

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She's purchased some CCPT books,

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et cetera, et cetera. OK. So then this is the case vignette,

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my first client who I've had for 15 hours

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has had medical trauma presented as angry at everyone, highly anxious

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and ended up on my door.

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I was most uncertain of what to say. So I said very little.

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I had to set no limits with her and we played doctor and patient for 13 sessions.

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In the last two.

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She wanted to chat.

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I wished that she had continued playing.

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I got through it and we are done. I don't have any choice.

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My trainee time per child is up.

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So just for context, she is limited to how many sessions she has with each child.

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So at the 15 session mark, she had to stop. But then she goes on to say,

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however, the point of this little story is in my ignorance.

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I watched,

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amazed as this young girl played through her process and used me

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to help her as I was the doctor and patient too,

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whatever she wanted.

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She is 10 years old and parents have never seen her play with a doctor's kit.

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She's doing well and there are changes to be seen

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across different environments and I am watching in awe.

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Yes.

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CCPT is definitely for me and I'm so excited for when the time comes,

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when I do know what I'm doing.

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So, Tammy, first of all,

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you obviously know what you're doing enough because you watched

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her process what she needed to process with you.

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And again, above all it's relationship.

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So our skills are never as impactful as the relationship that we build.

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And it's very clear

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evident from your email that this little girl was able to build the relationship,

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she needed to do the healing work that she needed to do.

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So,

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Tammy, thank you for writing in. Thank you for letting me share that. And I hope that

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that jogs all of our memories of those early days in

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play sessions where we just sat back in wonderment of,

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oh my word.

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I don't even know what I did or what I didn't do

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or how this works or why this works or what's even happening.

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But look at all of the amazing things that are

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taking place right in front of our very eyes.

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So,

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so exciting to get to have those moments in the play sessions.

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And I really wanted to share that with you also. I appreciate you

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sending that to me, Tammy. All right. So let's get into questions.

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I'm going to be answering one question from

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Gabby three from Texie and one from Stephanie.

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So

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we'll start with Gabby in South Africa.

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This is actually the individual that I read her email

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a while back as she is an art teacher.

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And she talked about how she has started

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using child-centered principles in her art classes.

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So she wrote in and said,

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I'm wondering how important it is to have parental support and buy in.

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Oh boy, that's the question. Right.

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Obviously, it helps to support the whole process.

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The reason I ask is that the community in which I live is very divided,

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a large group of low income families,

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lots of child and animal abuse, huge problems with younger kids and teens.

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There's 10 year old who is brilliant with horses and

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on the edge of tipping into a gang lifestyle,

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he's a good kid with big issues.

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His mom died last year. His father is uninvolved.

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I've asked him to come and do play with me once a week.

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But I'm wondering how much good I can do as a lone voice.

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All right. So Gabby, thanks for reaching out and obviously sticky situation.

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But every single one of us as child-centered play therapists fight this battle

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because there are some parents who are intimately involved

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and then some who really act like they could care less

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and everything in between.

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So

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when we're thinking about parental involvement,

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yes, ideally,

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we know not only from our own experience but also from evidence in research

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that when parents are bought in and supportive and involved and invested,

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we do have more positive outcomes.

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However, we also know

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that

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there are often times when

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we do not have that,

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but child-centered play therapy still works.

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So I think the first thing I want to highlight is the relationship.

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Like I just mentioned with Tammy's email,

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the relationship is what allows for change.

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So when you say I'm wondering how much good I can do as a lone voice.

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You can be the catalyst for massive change for this boy

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because I,

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I always think back to Urie Bronfenbrenner's quote and

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I shared this in a parenting podcast episode a while ago

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and I'm paraphrasing. I do not have the quote in front of me.

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But Urie Bronfenbrenner

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is quoted in saying something along the lines of every child

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needs to have an adult in their life that loves them in a crazy and irrational way.

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And that's my paraphrase. So please know that's not a direct quote.

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But

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when we think about this scenario,

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mom is dead, dad is not involved.

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Of course, he's tipping into gang lifestyle.

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Of course, he's looking into all of this other stuff because he needs to feel loved,

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he needs to feel that he belongs somewhere.

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He needs to know that someone cares for him.

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And Gabby, you can be that person

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because the relationship is what allows for change.

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So you form that relationship with him. Even if it's just one hour. Once a week,

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that's what we get in a child-centered playroom. One hour, once a week

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you pour into him, you provide the be with attitudes, you reflectively respond,

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you engage in a child-centered way

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and that relationship is going to mean everything to him.

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So I would say you can make

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a ton of good

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in that relationship. My second thought is

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we can't always, actually, we often cannot, it's not, can't always,

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we usually often cannot

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control other environments, other circumstances.

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So one of the questions that were asked often by certain parents

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is what happens when the environment doesn't change.

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In other words,

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dad's house is always going to be chaotic

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or the school is not going to allow him to have breaks when he gets frustrated

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or the soccer coach is not going to tolerate him

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having a tantrum in the middle of a game.

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And the question is always,

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how is child-centered play therapy going to help him or her work through that issue?

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Because there's going to be no leeway, you're going to give free rein

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and complete control to the child in the playroom. That's great.

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But what, how does that translate to other environments?

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We have no control over other environments

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and even when they stay the same,

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we know that child-centered play therapy

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allows children to build coping skills and resilience

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in those static environments.

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So ideally, would we love to waive our proverbial magic wand

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and change every environment to be more healthy and happy and positive for our kids.

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I would assume we would

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however,

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we can't.

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So we know that the child-centered play therapy process

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equips kids with the knowledge, the skills, the tools, the coping,

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the resilience that they need.

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So that when they go into those environments,

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they handle it differently,

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they believe in themselves, they trust themselves, they solve their own problems.

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They don't get as emotionally overwhelmed. It's not as up heaving for them

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and they're able to stay more regulated.

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So, Gabby, even when the environment doesn't change, even when he

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can't have a relationship with his mom and dad,

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even when there are gang influences around him,

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he's going to start responding differently.

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And that's a very powerful thing for us to keep in mind because I

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think sometimes we feel that our hands are tied and we feel very helpless

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in situations like this. Gosh, I only have this kid an hour a week.

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I mean, you know, with all of the stuff going on in this child's life,

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I, is this really going to be enough?

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Well, it's enough for that hour

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and that relationship is more than enough and

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everything that the child is able to learn

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and

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grow and change in the playroom

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is going to make huge differences for them no matter where they end up.

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So, Gabby, I hope that that's an answer to your question. I think

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there are lots of layers to a question like that. But

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know that the hour that you spend is very,

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very impactful and meaningful for that little boy.

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And that's true for all of us.

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You know, I,

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I would love to rescue some of my kids from

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the stuff that they deal with throughout the week.

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I, I wish I could swoop in and rescue them,

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but we can't.

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So we worry about what we do have control over, which is the relationship

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and what we do when we pour into those kids for the hour each week that we see them.

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All right. Gabby in South Africa. Thank you so much

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to all my South Africans.

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I just gave you a shout out a couple podcasts

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ago and I don't even remember what that phrase was.

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So sorry, you only got it once.

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All right,

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let's move on to Texie

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and Texie asked three questions. So I'm going to kind of just tag team this into one.

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Texie lives in Michigan.

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Hello to my Michigander. I say my, but my husband's the Michigander, not me.

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I'm legit Floridian,

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but I have a special place in my heart for Michigan.

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That's where my husband grew up and

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all of his family still lives there. So, hello to my Michiganders.

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He really gets mad when I say Michiganians. Anyway,

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I digress, getting back to it

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Texie reached out and said she has a gazillion

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questions but she has narrowed it down to three.

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So I greatly appreciate that Texie, thank you for only sending me three at a time.

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But here's the first one in my most recent intakes.

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I have several children, ages 5 to 11 reporting suicidal ideation.

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How do you manage active or passive suicidal ideation within the context of CCPT?

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All right.

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So I,

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I try really hard and I'm very diligent to provide

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answers instead of what I would call non answers.

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But in this case,

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I'm going to actually give you a little bit of a

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non answers before I try to give you more detail.

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I would argue having not been in, in any of these intakes

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that these children are not suicidal and they don't have suicidal ideation.

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I did a podcast episode on this in the parenting,

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the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast episodes

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about,

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I forget exactly what it's called, but something along the lines of,

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what to say when your children say alarming things

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or I hate my life or something like that, you know,

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the alarming things that kids say something along those lines.

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So if you wanna go to playtherapyparenting.com,

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you can search archives and probably locate

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that by scrolling through the earlier episodes.

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But I bring that up to say

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I've been doing this almost 20 years

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and it is only in recent years that children have

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started using phrases that we would categorize as suicidal.

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And I think that they've been given language that they don't understand.

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They've heard phrases that they don't understand

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and they've been exposed to things that they don't understand.

248
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And what I talked about in that podcast episode

249
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is that when a child says something like I just

250
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:13,179
wish I were dead or I just wish I were never born or I just wanna kill myself.

251
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,539
We have to look past the words and we have

252
00:12:16,549 --> 00:12:18,559
to look at what the child is trying to communicate

253
00:12:19,070 --> 00:12:22,940
because they're not verbal, they're not cognitive, they're not rational.

254
00:12:22,950 --> 00:12:24,690
So everything that comes out of their mouth

255
00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:27,500
is usually an attempt to explain a feeling.

256
00:12:28,770 --> 00:12:34,090
And when you are overwhelmed, when you are miserable, when you have no solutions,

257
00:12:34,099 --> 00:12:37,119
when you have no answers, when you don't know why you feel the way you do,

258
00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:39,250
when everything seems crazy and confusing,

259
00:12:39,409 --> 00:12:43,799
it makes sense for a 5, 6, 8 year old to say, I just wish I wasn't alive.

260
00:12:44,039 --> 00:12:45,630
Not because they want to die.

261
00:12:45,989 --> 00:12:49,429
But because if they weren't alive, they wouldn't be in the struggle

262
00:12:49,780 --> 00:12:50,950
that they find themselves in.

263
00:12:52,309 --> 00:12:55,150
And if we get to the root of why they're saying something,

264
00:12:55,479 --> 00:12:57,280
it's a totally different reaction

265
00:12:57,460 --> 00:13:02,210
than if we focus on the words, which is I just wish I wasn't alive.

266
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Oh my gosh, you're suicidal.

267
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So I coached parents through how to respond appropriately to phrases like that.

268
00:13:10,489 --> 00:13:14,039
And I think we need to be very intentional about

269
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,869
recognizing that a child that does not have abstract reasoning not only

270
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,849
does not understand the emotional weight of the things that they're saying.

271
00:13:22,789 --> 00:13:26,969
They don't understand that saying, I wish I was never alive or I wish I could die.

272
00:13:27,169 --> 00:13:30,330
They don't understand that there's emotional

273
00:13:30,450 --> 00:13:32,190
laden content there.

274
00:13:32,989 --> 00:13:35,979
They're just saying this sucks. And I don't want to deal with this.

275
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That's Brenna-ism.

276
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So,

277
00:13:40,059 --> 00:13:45,229
what we're trying to do there is to recognize their misery, their cry for,

278
00:13:45,239 --> 00:13:49,010
help their frustration, their confusion, their misery.

279
00:13:49,979 --> 00:13:54,599
And we then take that and we reflect it or we enlarge it.

280
00:13:55,190 --> 00:13:55,799
So

281
00:13:56,340 --> 00:13:58,869
mm you've been feeling really bad lately

282
00:14:00,010 --> 00:14:00,830
and or

283
00:14:01,270 --> 00:14:05,250
sometimes things are so much to deal with it would just be easier if

284
00:14:05,570 --> 00:14:07,390
you didn't have to deal with that stuff.

285
00:14:08,729 --> 00:14:09,299
Ok.

286
00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:16,479
So in true CCPT form, we do not quote assess for suicidal ideation and

287
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,630
please take that with a grain of salt. I am not saying that

288
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,869
we should ethically ignore

289
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:24,289
and not

290
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,809
evaluate what's going on. Ok. So I'm not saying

291
00:14:28,070 --> 00:14:31,349
just ignore it. If a child mentions suicide or suicidal ideation,

292
00:14:31,989 --> 00:14:33,559
you are ethically bound

293
00:14:33,710 --> 00:14:37,799
to be a mandatory reporter and to know how to handle a situation like that.

294
00:14:38,190 --> 00:14:41,690
My point of saying that is a child under 13

295
00:14:42,849 --> 00:14:47,270
is much more likely to be saying something that they don't fully understand

296
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,799
and they're expressing something very different than

297
00:14:49,809 --> 00:14:51,530
what they're actually saying with their words.

298
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,619
So we have to normalize those kinds of phrases to parents.

299
00:14:55,630 --> 00:14:58,099
I've had so many conversations where I say,

300
00:14:58,260 --> 00:14:59,780
ok, but you have to understand

301
00:15:00,270 --> 00:15:04,359
that's your child's way of saying I just don't wanna have to deal with this

302
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:08,210
and unfortunately with social media and youtube

303
00:15:08,380 --> 00:15:11,549
and all of the content that's all over the internet and that's

304
00:15:11,559 --> 00:15:15,169
readily known and seen and heard and watched and whatever right now,

305
00:15:15,179 --> 00:15:15,940
for kids,

306
00:15:16,130 --> 00:15:18,789
they're exposed to things that they would have never been exposed to.

307
00:15:18,799 --> 00:15:23,250
I don't think I even knew what suicide was until I was a teenager growing up.

308
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:28,200
I mean, maybe I had heard it in passing like once or twice,

309
00:15:28,270 --> 00:15:32,119
but I certainly didn't understand the feeling of saying I don't wanna live anymore.

310
00:15:33,359 --> 00:15:39,299
So we have exposed kids to things that they should never be exposed to at this age.

311
00:15:39,729 --> 00:15:42,320
And then we get really concerned and worried when

312
00:15:42,330 --> 00:15:44,580
they make reference to the things that they've heard,

313
00:15:44,590 --> 00:15:45,929
but don't fully understand.

314
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:51,780
And so this is become a very interesting conundrum in which we find ourselves.

315
00:15:52,059 --> 00:15:55,299
And therefore my experience is

316
00:15:55,599 --> 00:15:57,650
that when we help parents understand

317
00:15:57,799 --> 00:15:59,799
what they're saying is not what they mean.

318
00:16:00,409 --> 00:16:02,520
And we're going to help them address the things that

319
00:16:02,530 --> 00:16:04,599
are causing them to feel the way they're feeling.

320
00:16:04,669 --> 00:16:06,510
And then therefore they will no longer say that.

321
00:16:06,549 --> 00:16:10,030
And I can't tell you the number of parents I've had that have told me that

322
00:16:10,039 --> 00:16:12,200
their child has said something along these lines

323
00:16:12,210 --> 00:16:15,650
which would be classically categorized as suicidal ideation.

324
00:16:17,340 --> 00:16:21,150
And then lo and behold, after they've gone to play therapy for X amount of weeks,

325
00:16:21,159 --> 00:16:22,570
they quit saying things like that.

326
00:16:23,909 --> 00:16:28,369
So we know that it is their way of expressing

327
00:16:28,950 --> 00:16:30,570
how much they're suffering.

328
00:16:30,849 --> 00:16:33,169
But I, in my experience and my opinion,

329
00:16:33,179 --> 00:16:35,840
it is not that they do not want to live and they're suicidal.

330
00:16:36,270 --> 00:16:36,809
So

331
00:16:37,020 --> 00:16:39,460
that's my thought on that text. I hope that's helpful

332
00:16:39,789 --> 00:16:42,200
and I'm happy to hear feedback or other thoughts if

333
00:16:42,210 --> 00:16:44,690
y'all wanna reach out brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

334
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,049
All right. Question number two.

335
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,929
What do we do with very young kids?

336
00:16:47,940 --> 00:16:51,289
3 to 5 who don't wanna stay in the playroom for more than five minutes

337
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:53,619
when the child leaves to quote, check on mom,

338
00:16:53,630 --> 00:16:56,450
they're not able to successfully transition back into the playroom.

339
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,090
They don't seem to care about limits of

340
00:16:58,099 --> 00:17:00,169
the session ending if they leave the playroom,

341
00:17:00,210 --> 00:17:02,570
but they also always endorse wanting to come back.

342
00:17:03,239 --> 00:17:04,319
One additional barrier.

343
00:17:04,329 --> 00:17:06,699
I'm working around is the group practice expectation that

344
00:17:06,709 --> 00:17:08,520
I'm able to bill insurance for the session,

345
00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:10,910
meaning it has to be at least 35 minutes.

346
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:12,098
Ok.

347
00:17:12,270 --> 00:17:13,219
So

348
00:17:15,050 --> 00:17:16,790
I, I was going to get into a

349
00:17:17,199 --> 00:17:20,430
billing insurance thing, but I'll, I'll save that for another day. All right.

350
00:17:20,439 --> 00:17:22,189
So let me just answer the question.

351
00:17:22,469 --> 00:17:24,739
First of all, 3 to 5 year old children,

352
00:17:25,439 --> 00:17:27,800
that is three is about the youngest.

353
00:17:27,810 --> 00:17:29,680
We do see a few 2.5 year olds,

354
00:17:29,689 --> 00:17:31,329
but for the most part three is going to be

355
00:17:31,339 --> 00:17:33,959
the youngest of the sweet spot for child-centered play therapy.

356
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:39,500
So 3, 4 and 5 year olds are actually very well suited for the child-centered model.

357
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:40,790
So it's not that they're too young.

358
00:17:41,430 --> 00:17:43,579
And when you say they don't want to stay in the play room for

359
00:17:43,589 --> 00:17:46,359
more than five minutes because they want to go leave to check on mom.

360
00:17:46,369 --> 00:17:49,000
Well, that's just a very clear limit setting scenario.

361
00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:50,750
So when the child says,

362
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,719
I wanna go see where mom is or I wanna go check on

363
00:17:52,729 --> 00:17:55,579
mom or I wanna go give mom a hug or whatever they say

364
00:17:55,810 --> 00:18:00,839
we very quickly set a limit on the session and the amount of time we have left.

365
00:18:01,069 --> 00:18:02,569
So what that would look like is

366
00:18:02,859 --> 00:18:07,400
you wanna go check on mom, but we still have 45 minutes left of our play time.

367
00:18:07,469 --> 00:18:10,000
You can choose to go out and see her as soon as we're all done.

368
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:14,569
So that is an immediate limit that gets set because

369
00:18:14,579 --> 00:18:16,849
the session is for taking place in the playroom.

370
00:18:17,069 --> 00:18:19,770
So you mentioned when the child leaves to go check on mom,

371
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,719
arguably speaking, the child should not be leaving to go check on mom.

372
00:18:23,729 --> 00:18:25,180
So you're going to validate,

373
00:18:25,189 --> 00:18:28,000
set the neutral limit and then let them know that they can choose

374
00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:30,250
to go out and check on mom when the session is all done.

375
00:18:30,829 --> 00:18:31,680
So then you mentioned,

376
00:18:31,689 --> 00:18:33,439
they don't seem to care about the limits of

377
00:18:33,449 --> 00:18:35,699
the session ending if they leave the playroom.

378
00:18:35,859 --> 00:18:39,849
Ok. So that is also not part of the limit that we would set

379
00:18:40,060 --> 00:18:42,449
because the session takes place regardless of

380
00:18:42,459 --> 00:18:44,410
what happens and regardless of behavior,

381
00:18:44,420 --> 00:18:46,010
you can't earn it, you can't lose it.

382
00:18:46,979 --> 00:18:49,650
So we would never want to say if you choose to leave,

383
00:18:49,660 --> 00:18:52,800
you choose to end the session early because not only do we

384
00:18:52,810 --> 00:18:55,800
give every child the full amount of time for their session,

385
00:18:56,050 --> 00:19:00,000
but we also don't use a play session as leverage ever. For any reason,

386
00:19:00,439 --> 00:19:02,040
you can't earn it. You can't lose it.

387
00:19:02,170 --> 00:19:05,479
It just is a, a play session because it is a play session.

388
00:19:06,180 --> 00:19:08,349
So that would not be part of the limit.

389
00:19:08,609 --> 00:19:09,760
You might say

390
00:19:10,479 --> 00:19:13,479
you can choose to go out and check on her at the two minute mark or

391
00:19:13,489 --> 00:19:15,780
you can choose to go out and check on her when our time is up.

392
00:19:15,790 --> 00:19:16,800
Which do you choose?

393
00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:22,489
But you fall back on the limit that our play time is for the playroom

394
00:19:22,780 --> 00:19:25,410
or we still have X number of minutes left

395
00:19:25,550 --> 00:19:27,449
or our play time isn't up yet.

396
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,040
So the neutral limit is going to be staying in the playroom,

397
00:19:31,199 --> 00:19:35,469
but it's not ever if you choose to leave, you choose to end the session early

398
00:19:35,869 --> 00:19:40,099
and then that will naturally address the, it has to be at least 35 minutes.

399
00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:41,790
So I hope that

400
00:19:41,949 --> 00:19:44,430
that is helpful in that scenario

401
00:19:45,189 --> 00:19:47,329
just as a related aside,

402
00:19:47,439 --> 00:19:51,609
we never force a child into a playroom. We never insist that they go back.

403
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:51,780
It

404
00:19:52,020 --> 00:19:56,170
is the child's choice to come back with us. But once they are in the play session,

405
00:19:57,069 --> 00:20:00,890
the entire 50 minute play session is for taking place in the playroom.

406
00:20:01,869 --> 00:20:06,449
And so that becomes a natural expectation. So the child chooses to come back.

407
00:20:06,670 --> 00:20:09,290
But then the limit is that the child does not

408
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:11,569
leave the playroom unless it's to use the restroom.

409
00:20:12,439 --> 00:20:17,239
And if the child is having a difficult time coming back, we remind them of the limit.

410
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:20,599
We reflect their feelings. We provide choices.

411
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:26,420
We invite them to head back periodically while they have not yet chosen to go back.

412
00:20:26,839 --> 00:20:28,579
We can wonder if they're ready.

413
00:20:28,589 --> 00:20:31,410
I'll often say, I wonder if you're ready to go back to the playroom now.

414
00:20:32,250 --> 00:20:36,119
But again, we're going to let them choose to come back once they're back there,

415
00:20:36,130 --> 00:20:38,719
the rest of the session takes place in the playroom.

416
00:20:39,310 --> 00:20:40,839
All right. And then question number three,

417
00:20:41,310 --> 00:20:44,219
I'm interested in understanding the impact of CCPT

418
00:20:44,380 --> 00:20:47,760
on children with exposure to substances in utero

419
00:20:47,910 --> 00:20:48,650
anecdotally.

420
00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:52,569
Have you experienced CCPT having a positive impact on this population?

421
00:20:53,069 --> 00:20:53,540
All right.

422
00:20:53,550 --> 00:20:57,170
So I have worked with several children when I say several,

423
00:20:57,180 --> 00:20:58,869
I would probably say four or five

424
00:20:59,170 --> 00:21:04,699
and granted in almost 20 years, my n is quite small but I do want you to know not only you

425
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:05,750
but all of you

426
00:21:06,089 --> 00:21:08,829
I have in fact worked with enough children

427
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,930
that have been exposed to substances in utero.

428
00:21:12,349 --> 00:21:14,949
Several will act were actually born addicted

429
00:21:15,380 --> 00:21:17,609
and they were placed for adoption.

430
00:21:17,619 --> 00:21:20,069
They were placed into foster care, et cetera, et cetera. So

431
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:25,410
I have worked with several and in every scenario, absolute on purpose.

432
00:21:25,420 --> 00:21:28,790
CCPT has been extremely effective for those children.

433
00:21:29,150 --> 00:21:30,520
And specifically,

434
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:36,869
I would say that we noticed that their regulation increased leaps and bounds.

435
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,689
They were much more aware of others.

436
00:21:39,390 --> 00:21:41,810
They developed an emotional vocabulary

437
00:21:41,989 --> 00:21:43,609
and they developed coping skills

438
00:21:43,949 --> 00:21:45,920
and some of those are universal outcomes.

439
00:21:45,930 --> 00:21:48,430
But I thought back over the children with whom I've

440
00:21:48,439 --> 00:21:52,329
worked that specifically had been exposed to substances in utero.

441
00:21:52,459 --> 00:21:54,400
And I thought through what were the biggest

442
00:21:54,410 --> 00:21:57,770
changes or the most noteworthy observations that I remembered

443
00:21:57,910 --> 00:22:01,219
and those were the four things that came to my mind across those children.

444
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,459
And I would actually say that

445
00:22:03,650 --> 00:22:05,589
children who have been exposed to substances

446
00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:08,180
in utero are often similar to children,

447
00:22:08,189 --> 00:22:11,339
for example, that are born with congenital issues

448
00:22:11,540 --> 00:22:16,199
and or learning disabilities and or potentially autism spectrum disorder

449
00:22:16,750 --> 00:22:19,339
disorders, the the whole gamut of them

450
00:22:19,890 --> 00:22:20,719
because

451
00:22:21,069 --> 00:22:23,260
they come in with

452
00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:25,689
a little bit additional challenges.

453
00:22:25,729 --> 00:22:28,369
So it's not only the psychological and the mental,

454
00:22:28,439 --> 00:22:31,650
but then there are usually physical and chemical

455
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,069
and neurobiological things going on.

456
00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:37,109
So it kind of adds an additional layer to our work.

457
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,030
But I personally have found that it's very effective.

458
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,699
I've not read studies specifically, I'm not saying they don't exist.

459
00:22:43,709 --> 00:22:48,109
I'm just saying I've not read any studies personally on that specific population,

460
00:22:49,030 --> 00:22:52,560
but I have found it successful with the small group of

461
00:22:52,569 --> 00:22:54,739
children with whom I've worked in the course of my career.

462
00:22:54,750 --> 00:22:55,290
So

463
00:22:55,510 --> 00:22:58,020
Texie from Michigan, thank you so much for the email.

464
00:22:58,030 --> 00:22:59,459
I appreciate all of your questions.

465
00:22:59,729 --> 00:23:03,020
And then finally, Stephanie from Massachusetts,

466
00:23:04,030 --> 00:23:05,939
all of my Massachusetts people.

467
00:23:06,619 --> 00:23:07,910
Y'all are wicked cool.

468
00:23:08,229 --> 00:23:12,199
I don't have the accent to back it up, but you know, trying to make you feel loved.

469
00:23:12,599 --> 00:23:15,579
All right. So Stephanie says, I'd like to know your thoughts.

470
00:23:15,589 --> 00:23:19,170
Gosh, this is like I could talk about this one all day, but I'll spare your time. So

471
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:20,719
I would like to know your thoughts on

472
00:23:20,729 --> 00:23:23,709
ADHD as a diagnosis for children and its treatment

473
00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:24,800
many times.

474
00:23:24,810 --> 00:23:27,420
I'm conflicted with an ADHD diagnosis since the

475
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:30,479
child's behaviors seem somewhat normal to being a child.

476
00:23:30,489 --> 00:23:32,760
For example, difficulty sitting still all day

477
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,300
and understandable.

478
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:38,160
Given their story and environment, for example, trauma, stress, distractions,

479
00:23:38,170 --> 00:23:40,719
inconsistency, lack of structure at home, et cetera.

480
00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:42,109
Amen.

481
00:23:42,569 --> 00:23:46,369
I would like to know your clinical opinion as to the validity of the diagnosis.

482
00:23:46,689 --> 00:23:49,750
Your thoughts on medicating children diagnosed with ADHD

483
00:23:50,410 --> 00:23:52,880
and your experience treating children who come to therapy

484
00:23:52,890 --> 00:23:55,910
because of their dysregulation attributed to ADHD.

485
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:58,979
I'm concerned that diagnosing children with ADHD

486
00:23:58,989 --> 00:24:01,589
and putting them on medication has become the norm

487
00:24:01,699 --> 00:24:02,500
Yes, it has.

488
00:24:02,719 --> 00:24:04,989
And I would love to know how you see this trend.

489
00:24:06,030 --> 00:24:06,780
OK.

490
00:24:06,989 --> 00:24:07,300
Oh,

491
00:24:07,310 --> 00:24:09,050
and then she says you accompany me through all

492
00:24:09,060 --> 00:24:10,609
my chores and getting ready in the morning.

493
00:24:10,619 --> 00:24:11,119
So

494
00:24:11,329 --> 00:24:14,589
thank you for helping, uh, having me, help you do chores and getting ready.

495
00:24:14,939 --> 00:24:16,449
All right. Steph. So,

496
00:24:17,180 --> 00:24:18,689
gosh, where do I begin?

497
00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:21,939
I think I have probably said this more than I've

498
00:24:21,949 --> 00:24:24,359
said anything else in the course of my entire,

499
00:24:24,369 --> 00:24:26,140
almost two decades of career.

500
00:24:27,099 --> 00:24:30,300
ADHD is completely i overdiagnosed

501
00:24:30,410 --> 00:24:31,910
and completely overmedicated.

502
00:24:33,250 --> 00:24:35,530
So I think I've probably said that

503
00:24:36,369 --> 00:24:39,380
my gosh, thousands of times I, I've lost count.

504
00:24:39,709 --> 00:24:42,780
Probably the most consistent phrase that I've said why?

505
00:24:42,869 --> 00:24:45,250
Because it is the most consistent diagnosis

506
00:24:45,260 --> 00:24:47,439
that parents bring up they're concerned about.

507
00:24:47,449 --> 00:24:50,709
They already have been given a diagnosis. They're considering the diagnosis.

508
00:24:50,739 --> 00:24:52,859
They've been told their child needs to be on medication.

509
00:24:53,030 --> 00:24:55,160
They've been told they need to have an evaluation for it.

510
00:24:55,319 --> 00:24:58,550
The pediatrician has suggested that it's probably the cause of all issues,

511
00:24:58,729 --> 00:24:59,099
blah,

512
00:24:59,219 --> 00:25:00,449
blah, blah. So

513
00:25:00,979 --> 00:25:03,250
I feel like that comes up the most often.

514
00:25:03,260 --> 00:25:06,839
And therefore my response is all the time

515
00:25:06,890 --> 00:25:09,729
that it is over diagnosed and overmedicated.

516
00:25:10,229 --> 00:25:15,489
So that's where I start. I 100% agree with you. It has become the norm.

517
00:25:15,660 --> 00:25:18,569
And unfortunately, and look, I, I am not an anti

518
00:25:18,689 --> 00:25:20,650
pediatrician kind of girl. Ok.

519
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:22,229
But

520
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,280
I shouldn't say but, that negates everything that I said.

521
00:25:25,290 --> 00:25:27,449
I'm not an anti pediatrician kind of girl.

522
00:25:28,079 --> 00:25:32,329
I do see a difference in the way that we approach children. However,

523
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,300
and what I mean by that is a pediatrician.

524
00:25:35,310 --> 00:25:38,819
Typically sees a child one time a year for a well checkup

525
00:25:39,020 --> 00:25:40,699
annual Wellness checkup

526
00:25:41,709 --> 00:25:44,949
and mom sits down, dad sits down caregiver, sits down and says,

527
00:25:45,140 --> 00:25:48,689
yeah, so gosh, I mean, my kid just bounces off the wall all the time and I mean,

528
00:25:48,699 --> 00:25:49,949
he just does not listen

529
00:25:50,170 --> 00:25:53,479
and the teachers have even said that he seems really distractible.

530
00:25:53,609 --> 00:25:54,770
And I mean, it's just,

531
00:25:54,780 --> 00:25:57,930
it's like gotten a little bit crazy and I just don't know if it's normal or whatever.

532
00:25:58,310 --> 00:26:02,609
Oh, he probably has ADHD here and then there starts the process

533
00:26:03,140 --> 00:26:04,410
diagnosis

534
00:26:04,569 --> 00:26:06,650
which I consider, I,

535
00:26:06,810 --> 00:26:08,359
in my opinion, only

536
00:26:08,579 --> 00:26:10,130
I consider it to be flippant.

537
00:26:11,069 --> 00:26:14,170
You have not even spent any time with this child in the last year.

538
00:26:14,180 --> 00:26:15,910
You're going on a report from a parent

539
00:26:16,770 --> 00:26:20,530
and not to say that those issues are not relevant or significant,

540
00:26:21,250 --> 00:26:24,189
but it does not necessarily mean that that is a pervasive problem

541
00:26:24,199 --> 00:26:27,069
and it does not mean the child actually meets diagnostic criteria.

542
00:26:28,229 --> 00:26:32,449
So I think sometimes the diagnosis is made flippantly and then they immediately

543
00:26:32,459 --> 00:26:37,089
go toward medication because medical model is diagnose and treat with medicine.

544
00:26:38,199 --> 00:26:44,219
We look at it as let's address the emotional, the social, the academic, the mental,

545
00:26:44,229 --> 00:26:45,280
the relational,

546
00:26:45,420 --> 00:26:46,300
all of it.

547
00:26:47,449 --> 00:26:51,489
And let's holistically see what's going on with the child.

548
00:26:51,939 --> 00:26:53,380
And then we can re evaluate.

549
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:55,469
That's what I say to parents all the time.

550
00:26:55,739 --> 00:26:56,270
Ok.

551
00:26:56,439 --> 00:26:59,430
So you've suggested ADHD, you've been,

552
00:27:00,469 --> 00:27:02,589
you know, influence that it might be ADHD,

553
00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:04,680
the child has already been diagnosed with ADHD.

554
00:27:04,689 --> 00:27:07,180
Sometimes the child is already on medication for ADHD.

555
00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:08,109
Ok.

556
00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:12,900
So let's not mess with that right now. Let's start child-centered, play therapy

557
00:27:13,790 --> 00:27:16,410
and let's get a decent way into the process

558
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,410
and then we will re evaluate. And what I always say

559
00:27:20,260 --> 00:27:21,000
is

560
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,739
I've only ever had one family

561
00:27:24,079 --> 00:27:26,660
in almost 20 years, still pursue

562
00:27:26,959 --> 00:27:30,369
an ADHD diagnosis and ADHD medication

563
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,170
after completing an entire round of treatment

564
00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:34,699
with me and child center play therapy.

565
00:27:36,050 --> 00:27:36,849
And that's true.

566
00:27:37,420 --> 00:27:39,510
One family in almost 20 years

567
00:27:40,150 --> 00:27:43,420
when I say almost 20 years next year is my 20th year.

568
00:27:44,069 --> 00:27:45,420
So in 19 years,

569
00:27:46,459 --> 00:27:48,000
I've had one family

570
00:27:48,229 --> 00:27:51,760
after an entire course of child center play therapy,

571
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,239
still struggle enough, still have enough issues, still feel that it's warranted

572
00:27:57,439 --> 00:28:02,479
to say, ok, let's have an official evaluation and see if diagnostic criteria is met.

573
00:28:03,989 --> 00:28:06,569
So with those kinds of numbers and I don't know how many children

574
00:28:06,579 --> 00:28:09,390
with whom I've worked that ADHD has been in the conversation,

575
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:10,410
but I'm going to

576
00:28:10,540 --> 00:28:12,969
take a guess that it has to be in the thousands.

577
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,060
So we have

578
00:28:16,380 --> 00:28:20,839
that number of kids with an ADHD consideration at least.

579
00:28:21,449 --> 00:28:22,939
And one family

580
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,979
at the end of it all saying, I still think this is warranted.

581
00:28:26,719 --> 00:28:27,280
So

582
00:28:27,380 --> 00:28:28,290
in my mind,

583
00:28:28,469 --> 00:28:30,420
the way my data driven brain works

584
00:28:30,989 --> 00:28:31,750
is

585
00:28:31,910 --> 00:28:33,319
this isn't coincidental,

586
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,530
which leads me to the second part of your question.

587
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,229
I'm conflicted with the diagnosis because the be

588
00:28:39,239 --> 00:28:41,229
the behavior seems somewhat normal to be a,

589
00:28:41,239 --> 00:28:44,979
being a child and understandable given their story and environment.

590
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:47,380
That's what I say, add nauseum

591
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,380
to every parent.

592
00:28:51,380 --> 00:28:56,109
We have to recognize that the diagnostic criteria for ADHD

593
00:28:57,979 --> 00:28:58,849
are

594
00:28:59,170 --> 00:29:00,750
associated with

595
00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:03,020
dozens of other things.

596
00:29:03,670 --> 00:29:07,229
You can have a highly, a highly anxious child that presents ADHD.

597
00:29:07,239 --> 00:29:11,939
You can have a highly aggressive child that presents as ADHD. You can have

598
00:29:12,469 --> 00:29:17,079
a child with no coping and no regulation, skills present as ADHD.

599
00:29:17,270 --> 00:29:20,369
So there's so much carry over, there's so much overlap

600
00:29:21,079 --> 00:29:23,800
and you can look at diagnostic criteria and say,

601
00:29:23,930 --> 00:29:26,060
check that box, check that box, check that box.

602
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:29,699
But can we say that it is truly chemical in nature,

603
00:29:30,660 --> 00:29:34,339
not without evaluating all the other parts of what's going on with the child.

604
00:29:35,310 --> 00:29:38,609
So Steph, you specifically mentioned trauma, high stress, distractions,

605
00:29:38,619 --> 00:29:40,329
inconsistency, lack of structure.

606
00:29:40,339 --> 00:29:43,089
Would all of those things contribute to

607
00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:48,069
diagnostic criteria being met for ADHD but it not having a chemical root

608
00:29:48,180 --> 00:29:49,410
100%.

609
00:29:50,670 --> 00:29:53,650
So we cannot look at behavior in isolation

610
00:29:54,609 --> 00:29:57,699
and not understand that there are so many factors involved.

611
00:29:58,719 --> 00:29:59,550
So

612
00:30:00,099 --> 00:30:01,699
the final piece of it

613
00:30:01,910 --> 00:30:03,680
your experience treating children who come

614
00:30:03,689 --> 00:30:05,670
to therapy because of their dysregulation.

615
00:30:06,030 --> 00:30:08,020
And my thoughts on medicating children.

616
00:30:09,369 --> 00:30:10,969
Since you've asked for my thoughts,

617
00:30:11,089 --> 00:30:13,300
I will be very blunt and frankly

618
00:30:13,810 --> 00:30:16,250
ADHD medication is an absolute waste.

619
00:30:17,569 --> 00:30:19,550
It's a waste of time. It's a waste of money.

620
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:22,079
The dose is never right.

621
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,689
The frequency of the dose is never right. The brand is never right.

622
00:30:25,979 --> 00:30:27,900
The titration is never right.

623
00:30:27,949 --> 00:30:31,920
Do we do half a pill in the morning and half a pill at night? Do we do only in the morning?

624
00:30:31,930 --> 00:30:36,599
Do we do only at night? Do we do morning and night? Do we use this brand? Do we do 5 mg?

625
00:30:36,609 --> 00:30:39,540
Do we do 10 mg? Should we take them off of it on the weekends?

626
00:30:39,550 --> 00:30:41,390
Should we keep them on it during the school year

627
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,010
only and not have them on in the summer?

628
00:30:43,810 --> 00:30:45,300
Holy Moses. I mean,

629
00:30:45,569 --> 00:30:46,869
it's insanity.

630
00:30:47,540 --> 00:30:49,930
Then we haven't even talked about the side effects.

631
00:30:50,099 --> 00:30:53,660
We haven't even talked about the long term ramifications

632
00:30:53,670 --> 00:30:56,079
of a child being on that kind of medication.

633
00:30:56,660 --> 00:30:59,880
We haven't talked about the fact that it often changes their personalities.

634
00:31:00,569 --> 00:31:05,069
We also haven't talked about the fact that it takes time to build up in a child system.

635
00:31:05,719 --> 00:31:08,739
So parents are typically looking for a quick fix.

636
00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:12,510
They're looking for quote immediate regulation with the issues.

637
00:31:12,689 --> 00:31:14,750
Well, the issue with that

638
00:31:15,079 --> 00:31:20,130
is you have to let it build up, you have to let it adjust you have to see what's going on.

639
00:31:20,140 --> 00:31:22,300
You have to see how the child responds to it.

640
00:31:22,719 --> 00:31:24,939
That's typically a 2 to 3 month process.

641
00:31:25,630 --> 00:31:29,880
So we're already three months in before we even quote, know if it's working

642
00:31:30,780 --> 00:31:32,900
98 out of 100 times

643
00:31:33,079 --> 00:31:34,089
it's not.

644
00:31:34,540 --> 00:31:37,510
So then it's like, well, let's try this dose, let's try this change.

645
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,760
Let's dose it in the morning instead. Let's only give it during the week.

646
00:31:41,589 --> 00:31:45,900
Oh my gosh. It's years and years and years of playing around

647
00:31:46,459 --> 00:31:49,140
with the psycho pharmacological element of this.

648
00:31:49,380 --> 00:31:51,479
Say that four times fast. That's a big word.

649
00:31:51,939 --> 00:31:52,829
And

650
00:31:52,989 --> 00:31:57,630
then you have a child that's been strung along through this process,

651
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:58,859
side effects and all

652
00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:02,859
for 2-3 years and then that's typically when parents go,

653
00:32:02,869 --> 00:32:04,900
I don't even really know if it's helping.

654
00:32:05,319 --> 00:32:08,849
I don't even really know if it's really working that much.

655
00:32:08,859 --> 00:32:10,969
I mean, maybe I feel like sometimes it does,

656
00:32:10,979 --> 00:32:14,060
but then other times I feel like we could take it off and it wouldn't even matter.

657
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:15,500
Oh my gosh.

658
00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:20,079
If we don't see evidence that something is effective immediately,

659
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:21,079
then

660
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:23,609
we, we shouldn't be playing around with it.

661
00:32:23,729 --> 00:32:27,790
So you asked for my thought, Stephanie. And I'm just being very blunt,

662
00:32:28,219 --> 00:32:30,819
I think it is an absolute waste and I think it's

663
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,300
doing a disservice to our kids quite honestly.

664
00:32:34,229 --> 00:32:35,010
So

665
00:32:35,260 --> 00:32:38,680
I always advocate to avoid medication.

666
00:32:39,099 --> 00:32:41,010
If a child is already on medication,

667
00:32:41,020 --> 00:32:44,939
then obviously we leave them on it when we start play therapy because we don't want

668
00:32:44,949 --> 00:32:46,589
them to take the child off the meds

669
00:32:46,599 --> 00:32:50,010
and start therapy because then causality gets confounded.

670
00:32:50,380 --> 00:32:52,560
So we don't wanna change two things at once.

671
00:32:52,569 --> 00:32:55,530
So then I typically recommend them staying on medication,

672
00:32:55,819 --> 00:32:58,599
doing play therapy and then considering removing

673
00:32:58,609 --> 00:33:01,959
the medication once therapy is further into

674
00:33:01,969 --> 00:33:04,829
the process and things are a little bit more stable for the child.

675
00:33:05,180 --> 00:33:05,880
But

676
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,579
I have nothing good to say about medication.

677
00:33:09,589 --> 00:33:09,819
Now,

678
00:33:09,829 --> 00:33:12,000
let me give a disclaimer because I know that words

679
00:33:12,010 --> 00:33:14,819
matter and I know that interpretation matters as well.

680
00:33:15,229 --> 00:33:17,410
I try to make sure that I consider all

681
00:33:17,420 --> 00:33:19,650
perspectives and how my words can be interpreted.

682
00:33:19,660 --> 00:33:22,479
So this is one of my disclaimers to address that.

683
00:33:23,060 --> 00:33:24,739
Are there certain children

684
00:33:25,339 --> 00:33:27,989
who absolutely chemically

685
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:29,800
need medication

686
00:33:30,099 --> 00:33:31,819
for hyperactivity

687
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,180
and distractability?

688
00:33:34,599 --> 00:33:35,180
Yes,

689
00:33:36,089 --> 00:33:38,609
I am not anti ADHD meds

690
00:33:38,979 --> 00:33:40,150
on principle.

691
00:33:40,650 --> 00:33:43,949
I'm anti ADHD meds for kids that don't need it.

692
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,599
And 99% of children on ADHD meds don't

693
00:33:48,609 --> 00:33:51,349
need it because it is not a chemically rooted issue.

694
00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:54,530
It is not a neurobiological issue.

695
00:33:55,479 --> 00:33:59,579
It's environmental, it's emotional, it's psychological, it's mental,

696
00:33:59,630 --> 00:34:01,540
it's academic, it's something

697
00:34:02,239 --> 00:34:04,599
but it is not a chemical issue.

698
00:34:04,609 --> 00:34:07,619
Therefore, it does not need to be addressed chemically.

699
00:34:08,090 --> 00:34:09,310
Do you get where I'm going with this?

700
00:34:09,340 --> 00:34:14,540
So, I am not fundamentally opposed to medication for children who actually need it.

701
00:34:15,340 --> 00:34:19,530
The issue is that most of the kids that are taking these meds do not need it.

702
00:34:19,570 --> 00:34:21,780
They also don't need the diagnosis either.

703
00:34:23,138 --> 00:34:26,339
And then finally to answer your final question, what

704
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,510
is my experience treating kids who come to therapy because of their dysregulation?

705
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:31,949
My experience is

706
00:34:32,070 --> 00:34:33,780
all of their symptoms disappear

707
00:34:34,580 --> 00:34:37,260
because it was never an ADHD issue in the first place.

708
00:34:37,958 --> 00:34:39,830
So their disregulation improves their

709
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,949
impulsivity improves their distract ability,

710
00:34:41,958 --> 00:34:42,708
improves

711
00:34:42,860 --> 00:34:43,770
their

712
00:34:44,510 --> 00:34:48,969
chaotic frantic behavior improves. They are able to sit and focus.

713
00:34:48,978 --> 00:34:51,610
They're calmer, they're more centered, they're more stable. Why?

714
00:34:51,620 --> 00:34:54,040
Because those are the outcomes of child-centered play therapy.

715
00:34:54,870 --> 00:34:58,040
And it addressed all of the things that were going on with the child,

716
00:34:58,149 --> 00:35:02,449
not just looking at letters after the child's name and saying, OK,

717
00:35:02,459 --> 00:35:04,350
it's ADHD so we have to medicate.

718
00:35:05,429 --> 00:35:09,409
So, Stephanie, thank you so much for the question. I hope that that fires you all up.

719
00:35:09,419 --> 00:35:10,520
I, I know I get

720
00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:11,629
a little

721
00:35:12,429 --> 00:35:14,530
pushy mabye. I don't know what the word is,

722
00:35:14,699 --> 00:35:16,350
impassioned. That's a better word.

723
00:35:16,709 --> 00:35:21,379
I, I know that I get on soap boxes and I kind of rant sometimes, but

724
00:35:22,149 --> 00:35:22,169
I,

725
00:35:22,179 --> 00:35:23,899
I was just talking about this on my coaching

726
00:35:23,909 --> 00:35:26,489
calls this last week actually on Monday as well.

727
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,020
It is our job to advocate

728
00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:30,590
on behalf of our kids

729
00:35:32,050 --> 00:35:33,889
and I'm not doing my job.

730
00:35:34,209 --> 00:35:38,469
It actually makes me mad. This is why I get so fired up y'all. It makes me angry

731
00:35:39,199 --> 00:35:41,550
what we are doing to kids right now.

732
00:35:42,110 --> 00:35:44,860
and I could give you a laundry list of all the ways that

733
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:47,830
I feel like we are doing such a disservice to kids right now.

734
00:35:47,929 --> 00:35:51,979
Starting with screens, starting with devices. Oh, my gosh. I could go off but

735
00:35:52,889 --> 00:35:53,969
we do not,

736
00:35:55,439 --> 00:35:57,120
we don't do kids justice

737
00:35:57,310 --> 00:36:00,649
with the things that we do the way that we handle things

738
00:36:00,750 --> 00:36:03,750
what's going on, what parents know and don't know and what

739
00:36:03,870 --> 00:36:06,620
pediatricians know and don't know and what teachers know and don't know,

740
00:36:07,989 --> 00:36:10,260
no one is

741
00:36:10,750 --> 00:36:12,179
really truly

742
00:36:12,580 --> 00:36:14,790
except child-centered play therapist. Maybe

743
00:36:15,219 --> 00:36:17,280
no one is really truly meeting kids where they

744
00:36:17,290 --> 00:36:19,020
are and understanding what's going on with them.

745
00:36:20,010 --> 00:36:22,409
So when we advocate on behalf of kids,

746
00:36:22,770 --> 00:36:24,500
we don't let crap like this happen.

747
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,510
We have hard conversations.

748
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,649
We sit down with parents and pediatricians and

749
00:36:28,659 --> 00:36:31,070
whatever stakeholders are in the child's life.

750
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:31,750
And we say

751
00:36:32,429 --> 00:36:35,370
I really need you to hear this and this may not be what you wanna hear,

752
00:36:35,379 --> 00:36:36,629
but it's what you need to hear.

753
00:36:36,699 --> 00:36:38,330
And here are my thoughts on this and here's

754
00:36:38,340 --> 00:36:40,610
my opinion on this and here's my experience with this

755
00:36:40,820 --> 00:36:44,479
and I wanna educate you a little bit and I'm not going to try to sway your opinion,

756
00:36:44,580 --> 00:36:47,850
but I want you to be informed so that you can make the best decision

757
00:36:48,060 --> 00:36:48,340
and,

758
00:36:48,350 --> 00:36:52,169
and here's what I know and here's what I think and here's my professional opinion

759
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,850
and here's why I don't think this is the best course of action.

760
00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:58,639
Parents trust us because we're professionals,

761
00:36:58,649 --> 00:37:01,290
parents trust us because we understand kids.

762
00:37:02,290 --> 00:37:05,489
Therefore, the responsibility lies on us to say,

763
00:37:05,620 --> 00:37:10,409
get your kids off these stupid meds. And no, he doesn't need an ADHD diagnosis.

764
00:37:10,419 --> 00:37:11,340
And here's why

765
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,739
these are the conversations that we are forced to have and honestly,

766
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:17,169
we should be proud to have them

767
00:37:17,659 --> 00:37:19,699
because if not us who

768
00:37:20,179 --> 00:37:24,340
and if not, now, when is someone going to advocate on behalf of those kids,

769
00:37:25,590 --> 00:37:26,439
it's our job.

770
00:37:27,020 --> 00:37:30,159
So I think we should boldly do it and I think we should be impassioned

771
00:37:30,169 --> 00:37:33,550
about it and maybe we should be a little pushy to use my earlier word.

772
00:37:33,739 --> 00:37:35,969
I think that it requires that of us.

773
00:37:36,439 --> 00:37:38,250
You know what, this is a calling y'all.

774
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,889
I mean as, as a Christian, as a believer, I believe it's God's calling on my life.

775
00:37:42,899 --> 00:37:45,290
You may feel that it's a calling of a different kind. But

776
00:37:45,699 --> 00:37:49,520
the point is we have a calling to do this work.

777
00:37:49,729 --> 00:37:51,699
We have been called to help children,

778
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,040
it fulfills us, it excites us, it drives us.

779
00:37:55,429 --> 00:37:59,010
But that means all of the things that come with working with kids.

780
00:37:59,229 --> 00:38:01,840
And one of the major things is advocacy,

781
00:38:02,300 --> 00:38:05,280
we have to speak up for kids that can't speak up for themselves.

782
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,979
And so this is one of those topics that I feel

783
00:38:08,989 --> 00:38:12,300
like we have to be bold enough to tell people,

784
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:14,229
our experience and what we think

785
00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:17,199
so, Stephanie, I really appreciate the email.

786
00:38:17,209 --> 00:38:19,620
Thanks for writing in from Massachusetts.

787
00:38:19,879 --> 00:38:24,110
All my New Englanders. Oh my gosh. I just did a presentation for New England APT

788
00:38:24,830 --> 00:38:26,409
May maybe a month or so ago

789
00:38:26,649 --> 00:38:30,510
and I was so excited to be with all of you, New Englanders. That, that was a fun

790
00:38:31,199 --> 00:38:32,270
presentation. So,

791
00:38:32,550 --> 00:38:35,929
all right, y'all, you know how much I love you. I hope you have a lovely week.

792
00:38:36,149 --> 00:38:39,159
If you wanna reach out to me again, brenna@thekidcounselor.com,

793
00:38:39,169 --> 00:38:40,229
I'd love to hear from you.

794
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:41,850
I haven't mentioned it in a while.

795
00:38:41,860 --> 00:38:44,669
So if you need some CEUs, please go to childcenteredtraining.com

796
00:38:44,889 --> 00:38:47,070
and I've partnered with

797
00:38:47,290 --> 00:38:51,360
CoreWell to give you CEUs for your license renewal and for your RPT.

798
00:38:51,679 --> 00:38:55,459
So there's quite a few courses up there that are on demand and then we're working

799
00:38:55,469 --> 00:38:58,419
on some new live courses for the end of the summer and for the fall.

800
00:38:58,870 --> 00:39:01,399
So childcenteredtraining.com is where you'll get that

801
00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:06,080
and hopefully we can continue to put out some CEU content so that you all

802
00:39:06,090 --> 00:39:08,820
can get CCPT CEUs instead

803
00:39:08,830 --> 00:39:12,419
of whatever other theoretical orientations are out there.

804
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,500
All right, love y'all. We'll talk again soon. Bye.

805
00:39:16,429 --> 00:39:19,229
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with

806
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,570
Dr Brenna Hicks for more episodes and resources.

807
00:39:22,580 --> 00:39:27,489
Please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.