Episode 248

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised. She's not to be seeing you should be
listening to But did you talk to her? It only takes five seconds?
And who She's full of shit? Hello and welcome once again. This is
season ten, episode two hundred forty eight of Sword and Scale, the show
that reveals at the worst monsters are real. Well, I hope you're having
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com, slash plus. There's a little saying we repeat here from time to
time, something we say out loud sometimes and sometimes we even print it on
merch store dot sort in Scale is where you'll find that. By the way,
it's a pretty simple saying, and we can't really take credit for it,
because it's just good advice. The saying is don't talk to cops,
and that isn't something we repeat because we don't like law enforcement or believe in
the fundamental need for an effective criminal justice system. It's a saying we repeat
because, let's face it, most regular people aren't fully versed in the law
and don't fundamentally understand their own civil rights. Most people are worried about picking
up their kids from soccer practice, picking up the dry cleaning, or whether
or not they're fully stocked with milk and eggs. By the way, I've
seen the price of eggs lately. The bottom line is that if you ever
have the misfortune of finding yourself sitting in that cramped, sparsely furnished, fluorescently
lit interrogation room with nothing but your thoughts and a barrage of cold, accusatory
questions from the cop across from you, this little simple saying maybe the only
friend do you have left in the world. In the latter part of May
twenty twenty, Matt Moore called nine one one to report his wife missing.
Hey, how you doing it? My wife? Is her yeah, that's
your wife. Do oh okay, you look just like her for like a
second. Oh, oh my god, there's okay Matt Moore ultra hoo.
Hello, Hi, the least I've got don't know you're least okay? So
what's going on? She's uh, she's on character on characteristic clean missing?
Okay? Uh, I just I don't her wallets here, here's a lot,
that's the money. The phone's here, Carson Garage. When Matt began
to worry, he contacted Emily's best friend, Celeste. She arrived just as
the police did, and for a moment, to Matt's forlorn eyes, she
looked just like Emily. He told the officers that being gone without a word
for this long was not like her. There aren't many places you can go
these days without your ID or money, let alone the idea that most people
don't go anywhere without their phones. And you just came by to day to
see her. Now call me, he asked me, I would person I
know where she's sat? So he called me so like he told her about
your like, Well, let me at least try to help, Funny,
I mean, it's been a hot day. If she had cast out or
something. As unusual as it was for Emily to go missing, it was
more unusual. She did so that day after her fifty second birthday, in
the day of Memorial Day, May twenty five, twenty twenty. Okay,
you said you guys wanted to celebrate her birthday. Tell me about that.
What do we do? We went out to I'd have to sell you the
town because a spring, a water spring collected in the water about halfway back
and stopped, had had a picnic, got back in the car, came
here. I decided to go down to uptown because we heard that things were
opened up. Went Coldla went to bag and ales, and then we went
to meets, came home, and we went to bed and slept just like
a normal I got up. It was early, because earlier than I usually
get up to go keep with my class day. Every night. I looked
at the clock and night it was late. It was earlier earlier in normals,
at twelve thirty, one o'clock maybe, and I'm like, okay,
point into this room here and posted on the tops. It took a while
for me to get back to sleep. I will go I think around ten
thirty. I looked on my phone. I looked for her to see where
her phone was. I gotta searching to see she was here. Instead,
she was here, so I was not great for seasons. She's out,
you're doing something. I lie there for a little bit, did some Facebook
and made some Texans probably, and eventually I came out, and then I
started discovering things. There's your phone, there's your wall, there's her walt
for the car, there's your car. I'm like, well, maybe she
went for a wall. Hours went by until I just got to the point
where I was just like, I gotta keep I got on your phone call.
I got possibly because this is so strange that this has happened. That
beep beep you heard was the axon body camera. Unfortunately, you'll hear a
lot of that in this episode. Apologies. Per protocol, the officer walked
through the home to see if there was any indication of why she was missing.
What he saw was an immaculate home. Everything was neat and tidy.
There was nothing out of place and nothing missing except for Emily, that is.
Does she suffer from any any illnesses? Is she have dementia? Has
she ever threatened harm herself? Ever done this before? Okay, is y'all's
relationship healthy? And she never threatened to leave you or anything like that?
No, okay, no more than any other relationship. I mean, you
guys, I mean never physical, never, okay, strcifical, okay,
okay. How long you guys were married? Yeah? Married August two obviously
ago kind of I guess the two or three, but I think it's too
you don't remember it the year now. She's really small, she's one hundred
pounds right five foot the series, so her things way out. I checked
the trunk. I just want to oh no, no, I understand about
it. I had the worst case scenario in my maybe she did something to
herself. But do you have any reason why? That's what I'm you know
what I mean? I would hate to think even to think abouts Okay,
okay, there was a reason why that came to his mind though, suicide?
Man, I would I don't know my sons your tongue committed to your
law? Did she know they were in law? He really really close?
I didn't. I didn't. My son had it's a friend. He got
it. He's a great kid and awesome. He's got spoiled and gilds.
The worst thing you can ever imagine happening to a kid man gets a friend
she wasn't list as a fan. Matt's teenage son committed suicide only ten months
prior, and in the short four years that Emily had known Matt and his
son, she had grown to love him, making it all the more difficult
to bear when he killed himself. Suicide, however, was only one of
the possibilities at this point. So as right now looked like she deliberately left.
We just don't know why she left her stuff behind. And she no
history mets will illness or anything like that. Okay, I have any older
I don't. She's so right. So every time she always do you guys
own any firearms? Have me checked to see if it's still here? He
did check? Or you know what is here? All the possibilities were running
through Matt's minds as well. After hours of waiting for his wife to return
home, he was already imagining the worst case scenario and what can happen to
someone at ten ten o'clock and worster a gold That part I don't know and
the part that that we try to figure out is there are two things we
try to figure out when someone's reported missing. Did they do it on purpose
or just someone table? And that's what we always try to do. I
don't care if his kids ten in the morning, that someone took her very
very low, if she was the hurts like there was something along those lines.
They try to hide it. Did they go like all a long ways
away or something, or it depends everyone's different. Sometimes it depends on the
reason why they want to hurt himself. I was got right here when my
son died, and seeing it's great, fucking all this is so, I'm
buying is not at home. All of her belongings left behind were a disturbing
sign. The officers, seeing that there was certainly something to Emily's disappearance,
started searching immediately, rather than waiting the typical twenty four hours. They searched
her normal hangouts, the lengthy walking path that intersected the city of Westerville,
and the myriad of parks and woodland areas that it connected, but without any
luck finding her. After a couple of hours, they returned to update Matt
and he had a new clue. I mean, let me show you one
thing, okay, because I'm crazy, No show me this thing here,
this crazy. Here doesn't belong What do you mean it doesn't belong here,
doesn't I've never seen it. I got it. I just noticed it and
took it to put it there. I'm positive this was here and it wasn't
there. The only thing he found out of place in the entire house was
a bright orange extension cord that normally hung on the wall of the garage,
but was instead laying on top of a table. It didn't seem like much
of a clue, but Matt was looking for anything out of the norm.
Without filing an official report, they had enough information to begin searching for Emily.
They had a physical description of her last known whereabouts. You just keep
doing what you've been doing. I'm trying to get in cut with as many
people as possibles. So yeah, because at this point now you've got to
call as many people as you can, because now now we're at the point
it just doesn't make any sense, you know what I mean? Now for
someone to be gone that long some people before before, Oh yeah, this
happens. And I'm gonna say that most people time, most people, it's
really weird. Most people will disappear or disappear do the same thing. Leave
all their stuff and they just need a break. They just go somewhere.
You don't hear for him for a few days, and then we'll get information.
Hey, you know, I just needed a break. We can change.
I just I don't want to screw things up. What do you mean,
really bad of a time and face? And I'm just not good at
that ship. I just don't want to like get me wrong the common you
know, I don't. It doesn't sound like you could. I screw things
up a lot. Matt was being cooperative and helpful with the police, but
things he was doing we're starting to stand out as more than just quirks of
an odd man. The officer already noticed his inability to keep the timeline straight
in a story, but he also seemed fixated on the idea that Emily committed
suicide. Maybe it was just the lingering memory of his son's suicide, but
even so, statistics weren't on his side. The likelihood that Emily, a
fifty two year old woman, was abducted at ten am off the quaint streets
of Westerville, Ohio, was incredibly low. Maybe she took off of her
own free will and left all her belongings behind her. Maybe she did indeed
end her own life, but the longer she was missing, the more likely
it meant foul play. And we don't need to tell you the statistics of
missing wives, but it usually boils down to well the husband. Of course.
The following morning marked a full twenty four hours since Emily's disappearance, and
the police already suspected the worst. So she just disappeared ten o'clock. We
woke up ten o'clock. The more he's getting him in the mid at thieves
there didn't work about so all of a sudden, she gone this morning.
She likes to go forage, that's how they get their meals. So we
checked the wooded area over here. That's as we could. I'm getting there,
what about a hundred yards or so. I guess this was yesterday.
Yesterday morning at ten eleven, is gone. We didn't report tell you last
night about five or six o'clock, so some red flags. We're just trying
to cover all our bases. We've been through the house much like a little
kid, immaculate. I mean, it's nice and clean. So our next
step was this blood how to see if we get a track someplace, if
she shoves and took off on foot someplace because her cars here, her phone's
here, it doesn't have Yeah, and so I didn't think. I thought
maybe are going to mass So so what do you what's your guys get done?
They already suspected Matt had something to do with Emily's disappearance, but they
couldn't be sure, so they brought out the bloodhound just to see where it
would lead, just in case. How often do you guys go pillaging?
Can we stand it? I'm just I'm taking it all in. Is that
what it's called foraging? When you steal some pilfree? Maybe she goes every
day. We every chance we get. She's home now, I'm unemployed,
so we'll take the breaks in the middle day and we'll go. And the
weather just broke a couple of weeks ago. There wasn't a lot for forage
now for that rain, and all of a sudden the sun has been like
three days. It's just everywhere. What do you guys usually go forage?
There? It is I keep going to say the other word that is wrong,
but forge yes, there's there's a bridge up there. It goes it's
a walk bridge. If you're facing this way. If you go along the
left side of it, you don't go up on it. It's just the
wrong side of it. It's it's right there, and there's a woditor in
insto it. And then you go up onto the trail, walk down a
bit and take a lesson. It takes you right back into this neighborhood here.
It's about a ten to fifteen minute a well. Emily loved nature and
spend a lot of time foraging for edible plants. Hence Matt suggested to search
the nearby thicket. The dog got a scent from some of Emily's belongings that
Matt's applied, and took off down the road. Matt waited and worried.
And this is the most bizarre thing in the world. And I'm just super
super great there, and I don't understand what's planing. I don't understand a
lot. It's that it's like a movie. It just seems like she's needed
which she's summer really got boundary. The police shared those very thoughts, and
we're beginning to suspect something far worse. Then, to add to their suspicions,
Matt said this, Oh I hope you won't find it well, you
want to found, but do you want a good hour? I don't want
to find. I want her fond, but I want to After a while
of waiting, Matt just wanted to go inside. The recent turn in the
weather made it quite hot outside. A few moments later he re emerged.
He went there, we got somebody with himself Radio pop Hell's weird walks out
here just to ask us which way they went with It was weird if you
thought he had anything to do with her disappearance, but it could have just
been an honest question from a concerned husband. Dog didn't will get it wrong,
I'm not here. The dog came up with nothing, which Matt was
happy out. His thoughts were that she must be alive somewhere if the bloodhound
didn't find her. The police, however, were less than happy. The
only thing they gleaned from that exercise was that Emily didn't leave the house on
foot, And if she didn't leave the house on foot and her car was
still there, maybe she never left at all. In the coming days,
they would dial up the investigation and uncover more troubling information from Emily's longtime friend
Suzanne. People lie to my face every day. I don't trust anybody.
It's hard to find the good. Yeah, yeah, so I kind of
have that approach. Plus I'm I was a fraud investigator for Nationwide. So
again still again, I yeah, you see what commotivating I can do.
And that is why as soon as I saw the the text I mentioned,
you know, I got some texts that said, you know, Emily's missing?
Is she with you? The spike He says, yeah, Oh my
god, I'm just I don't know what it is about this guy. I
Just the day after her fifty second birthday, Emily Noble disappeared. The only
trace was the thing she left behind, like her cell phone, purse,
money, and keys. A quick search turned up nothing, and the police
were starting to suspect that Emily wasn't missing, but rather murdered. An interview
with a longtime friend, she Uanne revealed more about Emily's life before Matt,
and she would point the finger that nobody else but her husband. She was
always very active online dating and I'm kind of against it, and she's really
little, and like I was mentioning, I always felt very protective of her,
and it seemed as though and it didn't occur to me you know,
at first, but every time I'd meet her somewhere, she was meeting up
with some guy, okay from Plenty of Fish or Tinder or this one or
that one. I don't even know all. So I finally I said to
her, I said, Emily, you know this is nuts. This is
You're smarter than this. You know, you can't just be inviting random strangers
to your home, people who know where you live, you know. And
and then after the parents and she inherited all the money, she get drunk,
all this money, you know, in the bar, and I'm Emily,
stop. She just is very She's a sharer, you know, over
sharer. She's very open and bubbly and and just doesn't think about, you
know, things like personal safety. Or she's very naive, you know.
I just I'll be even the woods. Everyone's great and wonderful, and the
world lood out for me kind of thing, you know. She saw Emily
as happy, go lucky, albeit incredibly naive and overly trusting in people.
In her mid forties, she dated a lot, and after her parents left
her close to a quarter of a million dollars, she went a bit wild.
Then she met Matt. She was very cagy about it, like a
lot of her friends still don't know. Up until Matt posted this is Matt's
Emily's husband, they didn't know she was married. She kept him kind of
at a arm's length everybody, And I think that's because she knew none of
us. We're going to like it, she recalled. The first time she
met Matt, Emily invited her over and Matt cooked dinner, drinking the whole
time. By the time I finished dinner, he was drinking op to right
out of the bottle. That's a dance hill and he was getting a little
bellidderin, you know, And I didn't like it, and I'd had enough.
She talked this behavior up to the meeting new people jitters. Maybe Matt
was nervous and drank a little too much. Then the next time they got
together, he was half in the bag when they came to pick me up,
to the point where I insisted that Emily drive, and I knew he
had driven to my house. And it didn't get any better while we were
into the bar, and that's when I started to notice that he was like,
hold no, real close, you know, like not arm around the
waist. Affectionately, it was arm around the knackle most, you know,
because she's sure so just squeezing her real tight. She couldn't get like two
feet away from him. She did say, and I don't remember the context,
but she did say that when he's drunk, he's the devil. That's
what she said to me. Suzanne noticed the signs of an overbearing and controlling
relationship, and she didn't much care for it. Her worry was made worse
when Emily showed up with a new hairstyle. And Emily has beautiful, naturally
curly hair, like the little curly haired girl on the Peanuts. And the
next time she came in her I sung her hair was straightened, and I
remember laughing. I'm like, Jesus, how long did that take? You
know? And she was like, well, Matt likes it straight. Matt
doesn't like my curly hair, so he like he prefers it straight. That's
that's hell. Yeah, every man doesn't like the way you look. You've
got to change the way you love like that. I didn't like that.
Emily's relationship with Matt had all the signs of toxicity except one. Until she
showed up with bruises on her arms. I knew what it was, because
I've been a victim of domestic violence, and I've been held against the wall,
and I've had those zigzact bruises and my heart sunk as soon as I
saw them, and I remember asking her what the hell happened? It was
a new bruise and it was concerning enough for me to go what happened?
Oh, I hurt myself at the gym. And I walked up to her
and I put my hands where the bruises fit. Okay, And I said,
Emily, try again, what happened. You can tell me, You
can tell me anything. Money. Are you okay? You know what's going
on? And as when she said, well, Matt likes it rough,
and I said, what do you mean? How far the rough is?
She like, pardon my friend, But Emily, are you okay with it?
Oh? Yeah, but he doesn't like to choke me. Did she
say she was okay with it? She didn't say no. She did not
say she was okay with it. She didn't say she wasn't. She just
kind of, you know, one of those she's just kind of acknowledged the
fact that he does choke her in her sex. Yeah. I didn't say
one word he likes to choke me. Did you notice any bruising? I
did not, did not, Suzanne said. Emily told her about the rough
sex and the choking, and she witnessed what she thought was controlling behavior on
Matt's part. With this knowledge, Matt was looking more and more like the
number one suspect in her disappearance. And I remember saying to her, I
don't know what would make me say this, but it's haunting me. I
remember saying to her, Emily, this is going to end in tragedy.
Okay, I don't feel like you're safe. Which as much time as you've
spent with Emily, and clearly you know her very very well, I've never
met or anything like that. What do you think happened that the night of
her birthday? I think he took her out for dinner, and I think
he took her out. I think he probably choked her out. Suzanne never
liked Matt and always feared Emily's relationship with him would end tragically. Is there
anything more I can do? Keep an eye on Matt? Okay, that's
why I'm still friends with him. Obviously. You know, if you confront
him, that's fine, but don't burn bridges to the point that he will
walk you. Oh no, No, that's that's why my sisters had born
blacking mess because I need to keep it. Clothes friends closes enim. So
that's exactly right. I don't fully trust him yet at this point, for
obvious reasons, all suspicions seem to be on Matt. They brought him in
for questioning. You were not an arrest You weren't handcuff coming in. Is
that correct? Correct? Okay? And that door does a lock. This
is a voluntary interview. Okay. Obviously we need to do the best we
can to get the full story. We can find your wife and you can
get back to normal. Obviously part of that involves talking with you, so
you know again this is a voluntary thing. Yeah, Like I told you
out there, I haven't lied to you. I'm not going to start out.
We could have done this in my house. No, this part,
we can't can't do it because it's not voluntary. That's Colely the vultar and
I give leave. I don't want to. I'm just yeah, we can
try that door right now at some point, could we like I want to
help you. I want to get this going up because I didn't do it,
and I want you to find whatever that'll happen to her. He immediately
became defensive, Mirando warnings, Yeah, I'm being arrested. You're not being
arrested. So why am I being rid of my Mirando warning? Because it's
the standard protocol that I do, just to make sure that we are on
the same page with everything. Reluctantly, Matt began answering their questions, even
though he felt it was a waste of time because he knew he didn't do
anything. We were super laid back, so you were you were one hundred
percent strong. It wasn't one hundred percent, but it wasn't anything where I
would ever harm my wife. That's all I'm asking, and that's all I'm
saying. How was your relationship? How was your marriage done? Any worse
than anybody else? Just to make sure I have so scale one to ten
relationship with her ten being bliss every day honeymoon like a honeymoon, and I
mean, can't can't we can't stay each other. I'm asking, which,
what would you what would you read? It? Would it would fluctuate like
a sign a sign way? But we were on since six months it was
in eight last six months. Absolutely, did you read our texts? Well,
we didn't went through everything. There's alders that old texts from whatever.
But it was after my son died. There was tension, stress. She
dealt with it differently than I did, and and so there were things that
were said back into it. Of course they read their texts and more.
Some of Emily's texts contradicted Matt's claim of a blissful marriage. Would surprise you
if I said that she didn't seem to be as happy as as you were
led to belief, of course, would surprise you. It would. She
was sadder than I thought. She lies as far as your relationship. No,
she she loved me. I would be very surprised if there was like
a another man. Well, I'm not saying that, but you know,
literally two weeks ago she was one person that she kind of confided to inter
text messages and so forth said something and she said you that Matt picked another
fight with me last night. She's two weeks ago, and that was just
the first message they found early mate. They're talking this month. Matt and
I are talking and friendly, but it's not the kind of relationship I want
a month ago, Please don't talk about Matt and ian love. And at
the same time she said I think Matt is mental ill. She said,
I don't want to talk about him. I would rather focus on the future.
By the way, Matt got really drunk last night said some things I
don't think you can take back. I'm fine, I'm pretty sure we are
not going to stay together. Matt picked a fight with me yesterday and said
some awful things. I'm not wearing my wedding ring. What do you think
your spouse says about you? When venting to their friends with Emily missing,
Matt found himself trying to explain away every little fight they ever had. That
doesn't sound like somebody who's in a happy relationship. If I found my wife
TechEd death to somebody a month ago, I get it. I'm not going
to say that that those things. Of course, there was a roller coaster
relationship, but it wasn't like anything that was anything you would think that someone
would hurt someone. It just would. I'm not I'm just addressing the fact
that you you just told me plastics must have been blissing and eight not.
Yes, okay, there I have been levels of that and you can check
the other texts and they are super I love you very much, up or
down, it would relate, that would go away, that would really go
away, it would last for any will you will you acknowledge that that's some
pretty heavy ship When your wife said I took off my wedding ring, I
don't think we're going to stay together heavy you think it is? It always
swung back, We're always just wasn't Why would you have said that whenever they
asked how your relationship me? When I didn't even remember that because it's not
in my mindset. The good times I've been so good, okay, but
those But you know, you guys are really going to try to I'm not
trying to do anything. I'm I'm reading your wife's words. That's I understand
that. I understand it. And you text her on New Year's Eve and
say if you want to divorce, you want me to move out? Fine?
I mean, these are all things I just printed off when you have
very They aren't the usual fight like I'm pissing you fuck off, I don't
want to talk to you, and I just leave me off for it's go
golfing because I don't want to see you right now, we're they alone.
That's you know, well we make it. That's pretty, that's it's not
A isn't as heavy as you think it is. It From looking at it
from the outside, I can see why someone would think that, but it's
not. It's just she was saying that to her friend. I mean,
that's surprising to me because I wasn't like, you know, I mean,
at times you would say it would be married too anymore if it doesn't go
down the lines. And I'm sitting in a police station right now, I
mean being being like, you're going out for me. He was answering all
their questions, they just weren't the answers they wanted here. Matt's claimed that
their marriage was great didn't line up with Emily's texts to friends. There were
other things too, whether or not he made a post to Facebook and which
phone he had used. I just need to know if you did it,
and there's nothing wrong with it. I just I don't know. I can't.
I don't know, Matt. This was two days ago, I know,
and you can't remember if on her phone. I can't recall that.
I must. You don't remember that two days ago. I don't. I
don't. I don't know if it was me I got on. I must
have I did. I'm sure I did. I can't say I definitively did,
but I'm sure I got on, So okay, I did. Didn't
that I didn't, You guys know, I want to say, Hey,
this is man. I'm Emily's husband. She's missing. I must have I
had. I just don't recall right now if I did anything from her,
because they're not up there. What the posts. There's no posts that I
made from her phone saying that she's missing, because I didn't make any before
the phone was taken from me. That's for that means because I didn't,
I wasn't like maybe it wasn't like, Hey, I'm guessing again, I'm
guessing at some point I started making posts on Facebook saying my wife's missing.
Whether it was prior to you guys taking the phone from me or after,
I don't know, And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Matt
was talking in circles, seemingly telling the officers what he thought they wanted to
hear, and then having to double back when those statements trapped him in a
lie. Then they asked him about the rough sex. She's total. A
girlfriend hers that I choked her and she didn't like it, And is this
what you're saying? No, I did. I have no idea. What
was it your idea or not. I have no idea if it happened,
if it was my idea or not, I have no recollection. But you
just talked about your hands had been at her neck. I we've been married
for two years. Guys, I mean, I don't know where you're going
to this. I've never hurt her. That's not what we asked like during
sex, so I ever can I remember a time where I was like,
oh my god, I want to choke her and this is really great ning
I'm doing her and she was like, okay, it's fine. And then
later on she says something to a girlfriend. I have no idea. Was
that my question? I guess I'm trying. I'm trying. It means defensive,
I'm worried. I'm looking at me. Well, then help us find
her. Okay, yeah, we are on the same team, right,
What does this have to do with finding my wife? Because we have to.
When I have people calling in concerned about it today, I have to
ask these questions. That's my job asking question. I say that that they
were concerned. Some random persons don't even know. Yes, super, she's
a real great one. But I'm telling you that clearly. You know,
yeh, she's she's not to be someone you should be listening to. But
did you talk to her? It only takes five seconds in them she's full
of shit. Well, I all I asked was a question. Ask me.
I'll try to answer the best I can. I'll try. I'm sorry.
When you guys were having sex? What at what point at a particular
time? Can you tell me a particular time we're having sex? Was it
a year ago, last week? Anytime when your penis has been in Emily?
Have your hands been around her neck? I think both of them a
hand, maybe in hand? Okay, Like you know what I mean,
and I'm not judging either way. Is that your thing or Emily's thing?
Both of ours? I would think, and she know if she ever told
me to stop, I would stop. Good. That's what I wanted to
hear. Not just because I asked a question doesn't mean that i'm It's just
a question, I promise you, Okay. I don't understand why that would
help you find where she is right now. I don't get that. It
seems like you're trying to in something something I don't feel comfortable. Matt felt
like they were trying to pin her murder on him before they even found a
body. Even though he was free to go, he didn't leave because he
knew how that would look. Guys, I did not hurt my wife.
I did not hurt my wife. I loved her. Would you pass a
lot of type of test? Absolutely? I wouldn't want to talk to a
lawyer though it. I mean I asked a lawyer ask what if it's should
I take one? I didn't even know if they were well. The bottom
line is we're here trying to find your wife, and right now you want
to do it? Now you want to do a lie detector? Right now?
He do you got? I'll go great, It'll talk with it.
He agreed to a lie detector test. But this isn't your old fashioned polygraph.
This isn't your grandpa's lide detector test. This is CVSA, or computerized
voice stress analysis. It uses a microphone and a laptop to measure the smallest
of changes in the vocal cords, rather than the various heart rate and respiration
monitors the polygraph uses. It's supposedly far more accurate and requires less time and
fewer questions to get results. It took longer to explain all of that to
you than it did to ask Matt nine questions. Most of the questions were
control questions obviously true or obviously false. The only two questions that pertained to
the case were number four, do you know where Emily is? And number
six did you kill Emily? This is not good? Yeah, that's real
bad. If you answer a question truthfully, your voice pattern will look like
a Christmas tree. There were a couple of answers that to the police didn't
really fit the bill. After studying the results and deciding to confront him about
his deception, they brought him back into the room and had him point out
his own lies. How do you think he did good? Which one do
you look like? The topic of Christmas tree in your eyes? That one's
good, That one's good, That one's good, that one'll get that good,
that one, and I'll get that. Man. So you said,
like six is no good, but yeah, like one, A lot of
these are you tell me, sir? But Jess's tone, how did I
do? Tell me? I did it? Tell me I'm fine, you
did not do it. That's one that you picked out. How can this
be? I'm just pointed to you. I want to do it again.
This right here is wanted you picked out. And then that's what the question
is thinking I need a lawyer. I guess I don't know what happened to
Emily. I don't know what happened to it. He genuinely seemed baffled,
but the police weren't buying yet. They were convinced he was involved, and
they just had to get him to confess. Why do you think hav an
Emily? How would you guess anybody think she could hear herself? How do
you think she hurt herself? She would save it, she was gonna do
it, She could hear herself. So do you think that she follow herself?
I don't know. I don't Just what does your gut say she hurt
herself? That's your belief, And I'm gonna say, you know you think
I'm Lyne. We were just talking. Do you think I that I did
something to her in the middle of I took her somewhere and then he my
own went through what I went through? You saw my texting, did what
I did today? Does that seem like something something killed her would have done?
I mean, I'm leading that one. I'll be honest with them.
I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't know what else to
do. I can't. I mean, everything seems like that I'm telling as
probably something I actually be the same. What am I gonna? What would
you do if you were me and you were in what would you do the
exact same thing that I'm doing right now? I don't know. I don't
know what's like? This appears to me to be very strange that I would
fail something that I know I'm not on it. You were the last person
to see her life. I was. She didn't float into heaven, she
didn't. Something happened in this just happened to me right now. People the
stuff, it's okay, it's not okay. We just need to understr there's
something that might have happened to my wife and weren't here talking to me about
it and I didn't do anything is very odd. I know you are.
You get angry with me, but I'm not knowing. I'm suspicious of what's
going on? Now? What am I doing? Am I still a consensual
Thanks absolutely, Can I leave you? How this looks? I didn't do
anything? You understand how this looks? You fucking killed her? Oh I
didn't, sir, bullshit, I didn't. I didn't kill you killed her
and it was an accident and we need to get this result. That didn't
happen. It didn't happen. It did happen. To tell you she's dead?
How did you? Where is she? I'm what are you talking about?
That's why I wait here here saying they have seen her. People are
bullishit. Her vote says you're pullish that thanks bullishit. You understand how this
looks? Did it to everything? You guys? I didn't. I didn't
do anything to my wife. Trust I don't know her. I didn threw
her out like I didn't. I didn't tell me. I don't know right
now. I didn't. I don't know why I did a dream. I
didn't do anything to my wife. This is a dream. Matt would get
up and leave. After that barrage of accusations that was two days after Emily
went missing, the investigation would seemingly stall After that. Days would turn to
weeks, and the community continued searching. We love you. We miss you,
we cared deeply about you. We've not forgotten about you. We will
continue this until we get some some kind of closure. As time went on,
a strange thing happened, and people that never knew Emily flocked to help
search for her. I thought to myself one day, I want to I
want to go look, she's local. Why not help? And I just
felt the connect show like I I needed to search. It's been a real
big, nice outcorn of support and strength, overwhelming knowing how many people were
willing to put their lives on hold and just walk the miles, take times
off of their jobs. The only person not searching for Emily was Matt.
He didn't join a single organized search. Instead, he contacted the Vanished podcast
asking for help and peculiarly described Emily as quote very small, She's like a
hundred pounds, pretty legs, pretty arms end quote. Despite all the volunteers
and the assumption that they were simply looking for remains at this point, Emily
was missing for weeks and then months. It's been almost three months without any
real sign of Emily. Noble aounced why family, friends and a professional team
or out here making sure no Stone goes unturned from the areas that you guys
are suggested. We're going to focus on the Album Creek area today. Obviously
we're hoping for the best, but we have to look at all possibilities at
this point. We're looking from anything from finding Emily, hopefully safely, to
unfortunately possibly finding remains. At this point, we there were three months out
and have had no contact with her at all. Then in mid September,
a nine one one call came in night moll, mom, what is your
emergency? Hi? We are searching for Emily Noble. We are in the
wooded area near her condo, and we do we are. There's a person
here with a rope in the woods and I don't know what in our A
dead body. So there's a dead body? It is, we think,
let me think it is? Okay, Okay, it looks like they've hung
themselves. It looks like they've hung themselves. Yeah, can you tell?
It's a mail or a female? A femaleology tiny and hanging from a tree,
coming down from a tree from the ground. He's on the ground,
her knees are on the ground. I turned around, my fat I saw
a little girl and I said, hi, Okay, but it wasn't a
little girl. It was the decomposed body of an apparent suicide victim. The
police arrived quickly and sealed off the scene. At first, I thought I
couldn't even tell that that was That almost looks like a little like a bag.
The weathered body resembled the color of a worn out paper bag. After
being exposed to the elements for an unknown period of time, it was found
kneeling with the neck still hanging from the USB cord they used as a ligature.
The saddest part of all was the apparent lengths this person went through to
be successful. One hand was still gripping the ankle. Smell just smell de
comforble, kind of a harden her to smell to describe, but it's distinct,
is she. Yeah, it looks like there's a rope. Come from
the top of this. Come over up, there's a black rope. Whoever
it is, it's they've been there for a while. That's crazy, is
how close it is to the room. That's also this is a little suspicious.
The proximity of the remains to the road was a little suspicious. The
body was mere feet off a major thoroughfare in a small valley surrounded by trees
and undergrowth. But what was perhaps more suspicious was the fact that the body
was only a few hundred feet from Matt's home and exactly where he said to
search from the very beginning. So this is really sensitive. We've heard of
things. I'm asking this is likely our victims. Yeah, they're missing.
We've got to worry about what's happening over there at the suspect stops. They
were cautious to identify the remains as Emily's after the exhaustive search for over three
months, but the following week they had an update for the public. We've
used outside volunteer groups that specialize in these type of searches. You know,
all kinds of volunteer groups have been into help. Like I said, we've
through all kinds of different areas of the city. We've used so in our
to search lakes. We've responded to strong odors and officers actually found the deer
on one search where they we we went to a strong odor. We've responded
to calls. Frankly, people have seen vultures in certain areas circling and we've
responded to those areas. As unpleasant as that sounds. It's just to give
you an idea about how seriously we've taken this and that we've utilized every asset
available and searching for Emily. Today, we received word from the corner's office
that Ma Nobles dental records are consistent with the remains that we're found off County
Line Road last week. Wpd's going to continue to conduct our investigation to try
to figure out how the body got in the location that didal on County Line
Road. There's still a lot of work to be done. We can confirm
that that area was searched on three separate occasions by Westerville Police detectives Westerville Police
personnel, and on at least one of those occasions, a cadavertog was used.
They found her three and a half months after she went missing, with
a walking distance of her home. The announcement that they searched that area three
times, one of those times with cadaver dogs and didn't find her, suggested
she hadn't been there since May. This only cast more suspicion on Matt,
but nothing happened. More months would pass, around the time of Emily's fifty
third birthday and the anniversary of her disappearance, Matt held a remembrance party.
Then a month later, authorities shared the opinion of the coroner. His findings
were very clear. He said that this was clearly a homicide based on the
injuries that were sustained in the mechanism of those injuries. He also gave his
opinion that her body was staged to appear though it was a suicide. In
his opinion, that was absolutely not the case. The quiet neighborhood Matt lived
in was swarmed by officers and Matt was arrested. Perfect all hell, Mat,
use your left hand and unlocked the door only your left hand. Put
your hands back on your hand. Student move. The overwhelming police presence seemed
to be overkill, especially since Matt seemed to be cooperating and was arrested without
incident in the back of the police cruiser. He only had a couple of
thoughts, what the fuck? Emily an Iman. While it seems like the
end of the road for Matt Moore and the saga of Emily Noble's disappearance,
the story was only just beginning. Matt Moore was arrested over a year after
he reported his wife missing. Finding Emily's body more than three months later,
hanging from a USB cord in the very woods. He suggested searching only made
the police even more suspicious than they already were. The city of Westerville searched
to find Emily, only to find her in the worst possible way. Now
her husband was facing a trial, and the community was less than shocked.
There's no way this is a mistake, Like Matt wanted to say, we
knew he did this from the beginning, his family or our family and friends.
We just bit our tongue and let the officers do what they needed to
do, and we knew this was going to be the outcome, that he
was going to be arrested, and hopefully it will follow through and he will
serve time in jail, hopefully a lifetime. The running theory was that Matt,
after taking Emily out to celebrate her birthday, returned home and put his
plan into action. They thought he spent the night carefully crafting his narrative.
His phone and social media both revealed activity during the late night early morning hours
odd Facebook posts, sent three am texts to his brother, presumably to cover
his trail. The next morning, they surmised he followed Emily into those woods
and strangled her, staging the scene to look like a suicide, because there
was no way Emily would do that and no one else would want her dead.
They also found it suspicious that he waited so long to report her missing
and then had the convenient theory of suicide when he finally did. This was,
of course, all built around their experience with Matt and the coroner's opinion
that Emily's injuries were not consistent with hanging. None of this was actual evidence
that Matt did anything, But further support came when they uncovered a history of
abuse against Matt's ex wife orally he did for sories and head and sucked.
It happened a one time and a one time in all those years, and
she happened to be pregnant at the time. But that was the only instance
in his history that supported their theory. But with suspicion comes down. Ever
since, I've found out that the details I didn't know the details. Well,
once the details were made clear to me, I started to lean forward.
The trial would be postponed until twenty twenty two and then play out over
a lengthy seven days of testimony. I want to stop here and ask the
audience. You you sitting there right now, or jogging or doing laundry,
whatever the hell you're doing. I want to ask you, do you believe
Matt? Did you believe him during his contact with law enforcement? Did you
notice anything in his voice that made you suspicious that made you think that he
was guilty? Or did he sound sincere? What was your first good instinct?
And did it change as you kept listening? Hold on to that thought,
because what happened next changed everything. The defense based its argument on how
absurd it was for police to suspect Matt at all. It's one of those
things that no matter how many times you say it doesn't make it true.
No one else would do this, No one else would do this. Okay,
well, no other suspects were ever developed. We know on the twenty
fifth he's taken into the police station, he's asked to come down in the
back of a cruiser. And you saw one of your exhibits is he was
read his miranda rights right. This is on the twenty seventh of May.
He's their guy, and in fact they continue to work from May twenty all
the way to June seventeenth of the following year to charge it because they kept
just looking, look, look. They argued that his actions weren't that of
a criminal mastermind trying to get away with murder, but those of a concerned
husband who loved his wife. The prosecution didn't think any of that mattered.
They felt her text messages to friends proved their relationship was on the rocks,
and the evidence of Perry mordem bone fractures in the neck and the bridge of
her nose suggested she was strangled and her body was staged in those woods.
The chief of police told Westerville community and the public at large, we searched
that area three times with law enforcement and once with ducks. Nobody said the
perimeter. And here's what else in here? More? What sword the master
the main criminal mastermind? And I'm want to talk about whether Matt Moore is
the main criminal mastermind. A second, he takes them to the exact area
and says this is where she forges. And then even the state of Ohio
and their closing argument just now had to conceive that do you know what he
says, you might want to go in. Oh, that's a bad fact,
right, And you know why he wouldn't want to go away is it
because he doesn't want to find her? Actually, I agree with that.
You know why I doesn't want to find her because ten months earlier his son
was hanging from a tree in the woods. I wouldn't want to go in
a wooded area either. The defense claimed the entire case was built on a
stack of inferences. That doesn't go into the woods and search for her,
and so that inference should lead you to the fact that he didn't want to
find her, and that should leads you to the fact that he killed her.
I remember asking a about the fact that she didn't come to Ohio and
search for her sister. Was no indication of whether she loved her sister or
not. She said, that's right. Why is it okay for some and
not for others not to mention during all those searches, the whole town kind
of thought he was the murderer. But back to inferences. But you cannot
draw an inference and an inference, so what does it mean? Literally six
days of textait seven today it is she did she commit suicide? No,
she didn't commit suicide, so she must have been killed. Well, if
she was killed, it's Matt Moore. That's inference. Second not supported by
the evidence. We think he did this, we think he did that.
Now, we think she went for a walk in mad because of a text
he sent on May seventh to his friend that on May twenty four, after
they've had a nice day together, that he now is working and going and
following her and killing her in the woods. That's not just one inference.
At upon an inference, it's probably eight or nine or ten, but it's
speculation. And then their argument that Emily would have never committed suicide. They
taught to tell you that Emily was happy. She was forking, eating plants,
nettles, so there's no way she could have committed suicide. We talked
about suicide board here, and we talked about mental health, and I really
mean this. We are all smarter, and I know each and every one
of you truly. If mental health were that simple, we would live in
a much different world. It's not. It is not that simple to say
they seem happy. It's just not. Because the truth is, and you'll
see in the counseling records that Emily had a history of depression and anxiety,
that she had struggled with prior loss and trauma. Look through the records,
and see how many times you see the word trauma and loss and grief and
sets. Emily had suffered a lot in recent years. Her former husband committed
suicide. A short time later, his brother committed suicide. Then her father
fell hit his head and never recovered. A short time after that, her
mother died in a car accident. Then she met Matt and his son Joey.
Not long after they married and moved in together, Joey too committed suicide.
That's a lot of trauma for anyone to deal with well. Emily never
expressed struggling emotionally to her friends. Matt did say she had some suicidal ideation
and even said if she were to do it, she would hang herself.
This has all been made out to be so horrific, right, It really
happened is Emily went to nature to find her peace, and you'll see that
counting records that that's where she found peace. She went there and she grabbed
her ankles. You know why, she grabbed her ankles so that she wouldn't
stop herself and killing herself. That's what you do because you know that when
you kill yourself, your natural instinct is going to need to stop that ankle
is. And here's what else we know in terms of the mastermind, criminal
mind. Over here, there's alcohol in the water bottle, her vate pen
is in her left pocket, and a vappen on her left side within her
reach. Do you know what we do? What's common sense when we're in
moments of real stress. We turned to our vices, right, We turned
to our vices. And here's else what we do, sup We're gonna kill
herself. We don't want anyone now. We don't take an orange cord in
the garage because we know she's wearing leggings with pockets. It takes something that
fits in our pockets so that we can go on our walk with our water
bottle and no one can work into anything what it was. But the crux
of this case was the suicide being deemed staged by the coroner. Well,
corners can't really give medical opinions. Only medical examiners can. So the defense
argued the Westerville p D operated under presumed guilt and validated their unwarranted suspicions on
the opinion of a layman. They claimed the injuries were consistent with strangulation,
but those injuries are also consistent with you guessed it hanging. The defense rested
after seven days and the decision of Matt's fate was handed to the jury.
Verdict on count one, we had the jury ving Julian Panels for and finding
defendant Matthew Elmore not guilty of murder as he stands charged in count one of
the indictment dated the twenty sixth of August twenty two, signed by all twelve
members of the panel. Matt was found not guilty on all counts and was
made a freeman. The jury had a reasonable doubt that Matt killed Emily.
When Matt hurt the verdict, he broke down into tears. I thought I
was going to get convicted. They didn't have a chance to mourn my wife
because of the pressure from police in the community. So it was like I
had to put it away so that I could deal with being accused of murderer.
Rate when I was found not guilty is when I started to be able
to grieve her. So that's why probably I got emotionally. That was her
more than anything else. Finally he could mourn the loss of his wife now
that he was no longer suspected of her murder. In the months since,
he's poured his thoughts about this whole ordeal into a book called Emily A Staged
Suicide in Ohio. He felt that he needed to tell his side of things.
What do you think do you think my story was out there? You're
not going to get the truth from the media. You're not going to get
the truth from what the worstful police apartment fed the media. And if you
ever doubted Matt, here's one of the jurors who freedom. I knew from
day one I thought he was not guilty, and the prosecutors never changed my
mind. I didn't falter on how I felt, not for one minute.
I just thought Matt Moore seemed very cooperative and wanted to be helpful, and
he acted like he was very distraught over his wife disappearing. And that was
the first thing that I thought right away that this wasn't He wasn't putting on
a show. He was truly wanting to help. Honestly, I thought he
was a nice guy that was totally manipulated and tricked. I just will never
believe he killed his wife. But the people that are I think I'm guilty,
and there's nothing I'm gonna say that change that because there's a lot of
stuff that they didn't knowledge it that the book will help them with. I
hope her family reads it. There's a lot to unpack in this episode.
First, don't talk to cops without a lawyer. That is. Second,
the police seriously failed in this investigation. The criminal justice system broke down.
It didn't work, and sometimes that is the case. Unfortunately, law enforcement,
after all, is made up of humans, and these particular humans hyped
themselves up that Matt did it because they couldn't find the body. But they
couldn't find the body because they blatantly ignored Matt's direction to the nearest wooded area.
After all, it was too thick to traverse. Wow, all that
time and money wasted investigating a widower. Not only did Matt have to suffer
another family death, but then he suffered being accused of murder. When asked
why he thought Emily committed suicide, he answered simply, well, that's not
a doctor. Emily was a very deep person. She had a hard life.
You know what, my son commits suicide? What did he? I
mean? I don't it's I don't understand it. Who ununderstands suicide? Now?
I ask you, do you think if Emily knew that Matt would be
accused of her murder but she had followed through with her plan. Well that
does it again for another one. Thank you so much for joining us,
and we hope we'll see you again next time. But in the meantime,
I'll be here trying to fix this fucking computer, which it's been serving us
quite effectively for the last five to ten years. I don't know. I
know I should have gotten a new one, but it's about to die,
along with my ability to record, so I better get to it pretty soon.
Boy, when it rains at forest, doesn't it first the website,
then the studio. I wonder what's next. I wonder if the government's going
to seize my bank accounts? Who knows. That's why life's a party and
never know what's going to happen. In any case, we hope to see
you next time. Until then, stay safe, Hey, Mike, this
is why at Colin I just finish your Plus episode one, US two and
Man, one of the best episodes I've heard Crazies on Plus. I gotta
say I love the podcast. Man. You know, sometimes I don't agree
with your opinions for sure, but a lot of times I do, and
I think that you know, you got a great show and you don't have
to throw someone completely away just because you don't agree with one or two of
their opinions or something they said once. So fantastic show, fantastic Plus.
I keep getting grown Away five episodes that are on Plus, so feel free
to use this to plug your free and subscriptions. But man, yeah,
great work, keep it up, love the stories. Wish people weren't so
fucking bad, but uh yeah, he man, have a good one by it