Behind the Scenes Minis: Complicated Werewolf

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy d Wilson. We talked about the possessions at LUDO this week. Yep. This is one that's been on my list for a long time and I find it super fascinating. One. It's it's one of those things that I find myself getting frustrated at because people that are really into the occult will use these instances of historical mass possessions in religious orders as proof that, you know, it must be a real thing because they're religious, they're fighting against demons, and yet there they are like, oh, we should have a discussion this is. And that's why this is a good example, because there were people that came forward and went, no, this whole thing is being used as a tool to get back at people that other people don't like and to try to firmly entrench the Catholic Church as superior to the Protestant Church in this community, right, And I love it for that reason. Yeah. This is the other episode that we are recording in today's session is about a similar place and time, and like this was a chaotic, difficult time to live in. Oh yeah, like got the Reformation and the counter Reformation, large scale disease, epidemics, wars, like so much stuff all happening, and then a group of people in a religious community fairly isolated from everybody, adding a whole additional layer of like the social and psychological things going on. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think it also evidences. It's a very tricky subject because I don't want to denigrate or insult anyone's religious views. I do think though, anytime you have an organization that puts itself beyond the reach of transparency and any legal repercussions by saying no, we're inherently we have to be secret. It's for the greater good. That's just like a hotbed of potential exploitation. And I really think, I mean, it seems so obvious to me, obviously through the lens of the modern eye, to be like, oh, they recognize that. Er Van Grandier was like, why don't we just throw open the doors, get rid of all of this dogma. We can talk openly about religion and what it means to be religious and not be so you know, secretive about it. And they were like, that guy's gotta die somehow. We have to figure out a way, which is very fascinating. Listen. He also, though, was seemed per really happy to use his charms for his own wiles, because he clearly wanted to get rid of the celibacy rule right, to make it cool for him to have sexual exploits with a lot of people, which also, you know, becomes a whole other issue to debate. Yeah, because there's a power dynamic involved in a religious figure. There's there's a lot of problems there, Don't get me wrong. I'm I don't want to make him into the hero of the story, although he did appear to be the victim. But this is also the thing, right, there's so much humans are inherently gonna mackinate for their own best interest yeah, or desires, and that's a that's just inherently problematic. I don't know how to fix it. We haven't figured it out clearly in several hundred years. It's been hundreds of years. I'm so tired, so worn out. I really, I do like reading a lot of the modern assessments of it that are careful and really thoughtful and try to take into account all of the things we do know while acknowledging all the things we don't and we can't, right, you know that there's also the element of some of the people involved in these claims of demonic possession were probably faking and knew they were faking. For others one hundred percent believed they were possessed. Yeah, and they are all grouped under one heading, So it makes it very hard to parse out and pick apart what was real and what was not. Yeah, because to them some things were real that other people would say, we're not, and that makes it very tricky. Yeah. Well, and it's been a while since I've done an episode on this theme, but I have kind of a fascination with like the especially medieval era mystics, some of whom were having experiences that to to day's ear like they don't sound like a mentally well person, right, They sound like someone who is having some kind of delusion going on. But I'm like really interested in them and their experiences and how many of them, like sincerely believed the things that they were describing to people, and how that simultaneously like grew out of the place and time they were living and set them apart from the place and time they were living. Yes, yeah, yeah, I really am super fascinated by Jean des Ange figuring out this path where she could say no, no, I was in fact, once I was cleared of demons, there was divine spirit that entered me. I don't know what to make of the scars on her arm. It's the sixteen thirties, so there's no photos. And also this kind of master stroke of being like I operate in this structure of the church where they are happy to suggest and believe and promote the idea that I was exercised and that you know, I then became in touch with higher angels. And also, by the way, my angel said what you said was wrong and now you can't fight me because you already validated him. I like that is masterfully played. That part, to me is very interesting. It's like she found this weird way through to empower herself. Yeah, it's all very fascinating. I love doing any of the possession stories because, right one the beauty of them is that, because of all of these psychological aspects we've mentioned, there's no one truth, right, so you can't say definitively anything, and it just becomes a fun examination and of what was going on, especially the ones in long ago history. Yes, I do like how much just legal battling there was in this one. I love the idea that Grandier was just like lawsuit, lawsuit, lawsuit, just throwing them out like shuffling cards. He just suit everybody that irritated him, which is kind of kind of fun. Fun, probably not for anybody involved with his life, but fun to read about. I hope, I hope nobody's possessed. I mean, I have feelings. I have my own beliefs and thoughts. They may disappoint people. We talked about werewolves this week sure did, especially specifically a guy named Peter probably whose name was spelled so many different ways that we had to stop and have multiple clarifying conversations while we were recording, which which pronuncisia would you like me to use here? I was like, it doesn't matter, I don't actually know that that was really what his name was. But yeah, So I was just looking for stuff to talk about in October and I stumbled across this in realized I was like, oh, we haven't done this, and actually we have not talked that much about were wolves, and I did kind of I wanted to talk about how like this, as the big witch trials in early modern Europe and North America were happening, there was also this were wolf focus. I I wasn't quite prepared for the level of goriness, even though the last time we talked about a were wolf it was Gials Garnier and that was gory. I just had kind of forgotten. I feel a little bit like a monster, yeah, because I was like, I thought this was gonna be gory. Well so the parts of it, but it really got me the like the parts of me that I was like, oh, okay, that was not expecting that eating the brain, but no, it was the like attacking pregnant women and tearing the fetus out of their body, like oh yeah, that it was just I was not I was somehow I was like, oh that that was more than I was expecting here, and then like eating eating the hearts of his victims. I was like, ah, not really, yeah, liking that and had no idea when I got into it that there was also going to be like an incest element to it. Yeah, that's the sexual assault and whatnot is probably the part that I find the most unsettling. But I don't. I don't know why I don't perceive it as gory, even though those are all horrific things. I think part of it is because I don't trust that any of this is accurate. Oh sure, sure, so my brain is just like, well, that's what they said, But I know it's not to diminish how frightening a possibility that is. But just like I think because of the nature of like these broadsheets and how many that we've you know, discussed throughout the run of the show that are like, well they kind of made stuff up to sell more copies, that I just perceive none of it is real, Yeah, which is why I think I'm like, eh, I have a different level of immersion in reading something versus if I'm watching a movie. Like there have been movies that I have watched that I have that have scared me so much that I have been able to like feel the fear in my body, Yeah, as a physical experience. And I've read some books that are supposed to be really scary that like that just has not been how I engage with like the content of a book versus a movie that I'm watching, right, or maybe a TV show that's really scary. So anyway, we had a lot of things to from. I tried to leave some of the like atypical spellings in there. Yeah, but I did clean a lot of them up because this particular document had a lot of v's that should have been used, and used that should have been v's, and a thing that took me a little while to remember j's that looked like eyes. There were a couple of words that I kind of stared at for a minute where I was like, I don't know what in the world this could possibly Oh that's a J not an I. Okay, what do you get met. Yeah, we've talked about our love of unusual spellings before the push to standardize the spelling of everything in English. This whole thing just makes me think about what we do in the shadows. So oh yeah, that's where my brain was a whole It makes sense. So it's were wolves not swear wolves. Oh how I miss that show. That's a very good show. I will say I am less of a were wolf person if we're in the zone of you know, classical monsters, uh huh than some others. And I don't know why, but I do love the fact that a girdle makes you a were wolf. I know it's not the girdle in the modern sense, but it makes me laugh so hard. It makes me want someone to draw a cartoon of like someone in a granny style girdle that writes them into a were wolf. Yeah. I originally was trying to figure out whether I needed to explain why sometimes it was described as a belt and why sometimes it was described as a girdle, because at the time sometimes those words could be used almost interchangeably. They're both like a sort of accessory that makes a cinching part around roughly the middle of your body. Yeah, but like the belt and the girdle can have slightly different in terms of like the garment and what is being done with them. And then I was like, this is not actually that important to the story. I also, well, I, I mean, that's actually a thing that I find really fascinating because I also wonder about that particular type of garment being the one chosen that is transformative, because of course things that sinch in your body are transformative in some cases. Yeah, have not always been accepted, like my tight lacing diatribe hasn't come up in a long time, but like we in the modern era. I say we in the grand sense of we, not me, because I read a lot about it. There is a proclivity towards talking about how tight lacing was, this weird habit of the past, blah blah blah blah blah. No, there were always people who were like, that's not good for you. And so this idea of something that transforms your body in a possibly painful way or an uncomfortable way, being the thing that makes you into a monster is just a fun avenue to explore. Oh sure, sure, Like there are also stories that are clearly fictional stories about were wolves, like werewolf flore fiction poems things like that from around this era and the medieval period that it's also like a belt or a skin like have some similar things to like these werewolf stories from contemporary with the witch trials. So it's like, is this sort of just a thing that was drawn from existing ideas or not. But I also liked how sometimes it's an ointment or an ungwent, and either the devil gave you the ungwent or like the devil gave you the recipe so you could go make your own unguent to become a wolf. I feel like there is so much money to be made with a skin care line called the Devil's ungwent. Yeah, whoever among you is a modern apothecary of skincare elixers, run with this all Polly has given you the idea, will buy the entire line? Yeah. I also it caused me to have various thoughts about the modern world that we're living in now and having moved from print culture into online culture, and how easy it is for misinformation to spread and feed on each other into a cycle that the thing that is spreading with the misinformation then informs things that happen, and then that feeds back into the misinformation cycle, like as evidence. Yeah, I mean, and it also I feel like we are experiencing the parallels of what has come up in a couple of recent episodes with times of great upheaval also being times when people cling to ideas of mysticism, for you know, magic being a thing, And I feel like we're in a little bit of that right now. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I did not choose this episode because of current parallels. I chose it because of were wolves. But there swear wolves. That's maybe why I don't like wear wolves. If they don't swear so much. Yeah, I'm here for the Rugaroo and the rest, see ya. I was telling Patrick what I was working on, and he was like, oh, is it a were wolf or is it a lugaro? And I was like, a lugaru is just a French werewolf. Yeah, and he was thinking, I don't remember which video game he was specifically referencing, but like there is some video game where like a were wolf is one tier of enemy and a lugaroo is like a more difficult version of the werewolf enemy. It's got more hit points, got to take more damage. And then there's the Cajun ruguru that will just bring you fabulous food. Yeah. Did you went to the Rugaroo Festival that time? Didn't? I haven't, Okay, I keep trying to go and the timing never works out. I thought you did get to go one time. I made up a fiction in my head where you got to do this thing that you have wanted to do one year. It's gonna work for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, that's our wandering discourse about were wolves and the Rugaroo Festival. Whatever's happening on your weekend. I hope it's great. I hope if there is a strange werewolf running around your town that it's just a p in an outfit having a good time, not harming anybody in any way. We will be back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow. We will have something brand new on Monday. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.