Connection Over Chemistry: The New Blueprint for Dating

Robin Fisher Roffer: And if you don't respect a guy, they sense it. You don't have to tell them anything. They sense it. They know you don't respect them. They feel less than in your eyes and no man wants to feel less than in the woman he's sitting across the eyes. But that is what led me to being a coach. So it started with this emasculating part. I studied a lot of Alison Armstrong, know, ideals about men and she's amazing and she's absolutely right. And... You know, I think we all thought that men were really just women in men's bodies and that we expected them to think like we did and process like we did and they don't. Hello everyone and welcome to Plenty of Husbands, the podcast for women who are older, wiser and hotter. This is where we inspire women in midlife to believe they can love again. And I'm your host, Robin Fisher-Roffer. Now let's meet today's guest. We're thrilled to have Lisa Copeland, a renowned dating coach dedicated to helping women over 50 break free from the cycle of frustration, and finally cultivate the loving, lasting relationships they've always dreamed of. Elisa understands that finding love after 50 requires a fresh perspective and a new blueprint that most traditional dating advice overlooks. She addresses unique challenges such as love after divorce, caregiving, menopause, and the adjustment that comes from years of independence. Having experienced these challenges herself, Lisa knows firsthand what it feels like to lose your sense of power and doubt the possibility of love. That's why she's passionate about teaching women through her courses and programs how to build meaningful relationships, restore dating confidence, understand men and honor their own worth. Join us as we dive into Lisa's journey and her transformative approach to love. at this exciting stage of life. Lisa, welcome to plenty of husbands. Hi Robin, thank you for having me. I am so happy that you're here because you and I just found out that we are both Ohio girls. This is amazing. I am so excited to talk to my fellow Beachwood person. She's actually, her kids grew up and went to the same high school as me. This is incredible. I had No idea, Lisa. This is, I feel like we're kindred spirits too because we're on the same path to help women believe they can love again. And I really want to know how you got into this practice of being a love coach for women over 50. Tell me your story in regard to finding your calling. Well, I was married twice. I was married for 24 years to my children's father. and had a relationship after healing. I always believe you need to heal from a relationship before you hop into another one. And I was in a two-year relationship and then healed from that one and then a two-year marriage based on chemistry. And we could talk more about chemistry if you want later. But I came out of that marriage and I felt like the biggest failure in the world and like, what would anybody think that I now had two divorces? I was judging myself because this is all an inside job. Other people, if you're fine with it, they are. And I called my sister crying and I said, there's no coaches out there to help me. Nobody's helping women over 50. And my sister said, well, then you could do it. You're resourceful. Go and figure this out. And that's how I got into this because it really started because that relationship in the middle and the two-year marriage. Both men said to me, Lisa, you don't know how to let a man be a man. That's amazing. Just let's put a pin in that for a second because that is definitely what my problem was for so long. So tell me a little bit more as we get into your story. Tell me just a little bit more about what it means to not let a man be a man. And did you agree with this person? Both of them, two men. And so did I agree. From where I am today, yes, I can see I emasculated them a lot. But I did go back to my first husband and I said, did I emasculate you? Now we got married really young. So we, you know, after college, I mean, I swear I graduated college in May and I was married in June. I was 21. And so we built a life together. We each created our own roles and the way we created them was a lot like Ozzie and Harriet and Donna Reed, all these really old shows. He was the moneymaker and I did everything else at home and I dealt with everything including when we added on to our home. I was dealing with contractors all the time. So I became pretty powerful in my own right. And because of that, I was talking to or I was in a relationship with two men that didn't have that power, you know, or they, I knew a lot more. One was really smart, but I knew a lot more. knew, I'd known how to handle things. So I didn't think twice about asking. I never asked anything in my first marriage. We were both just equal partners, just different roles. It's not a good place to be though, when you're doing that Ozzie and Harriet thing, but I had a lot of power, which was fine. It's more about other reasons. It's not that great to do anyway. So I would just take control. That was the problem because I was used to it. And I'd always gotten along with men and I thought they were full of crap at the time, but they were right. So you really did. Control was my issue too. And I don't know if it is our generation because we were so diminished, you know, and as women growing up, we were fighting for our rights, you know, and now, you know, our daughters, our kids, they can't even imagine it, right? But back then we were fighting every little thing, just getting control of a reconstruction project in the house was this piece of power we had. Maybe it did rub the guy the wrong way and feel like I'm not even an equal in my own home. That's really interesting. So that happened. And then what? You got that clarity. Well, it was my home on top of it both times. So it was my home. And I just took control because of that. the mortgage. No, I was. OK. Yeah. You had the power. Yes, I had a lot of the power. And it really diminished them. That was really my fault for choosing two men that were really not equal to me. Not in terms of, how do I say this? It's really about their power in themselves. They gained power in other ways. And I think that I was not choosing well then. for a partner, because I've had a very strong partner in that 24 year marriage and we created these roles. But everybody's created roles. And this is part of the issue when you're coming together with someone later in life is you're used to the old way it was. you come into this new way and we don't want to change. You know, we don't want to do anything. But I have to say I did change, you know, in terms of, so it was bringing me to being a coach and I really learned what I was doing. I could still be powerful. I just was, ⁓ I was not nice about it. It was like my way or the highway. And I'm not that kind of person, but it was like, I know, so you better come along on the ride. And I did emasculate them. I really did. And maybe too, like you said, you pick partners that weren't right for you. They weren't your compliment. They didn't have that partnership ability to say, hey, Lisa, let's talk about this and how we can. create something together, build something together, there was a part of you that probably didn't respect their judgment, I'm guessing. Absolutely. And if you don't respect a guy, they sense it. You don't have to tell them anything. They sense it. They know you don't respect them. And they feel less than in your eyes. And no man wants to feel less than in the woman he's sitting across eyes. But that is what led me to being a coach. I started, it started with this emasculating part and I studied a lot of Alison Armstrong's, know, ideals about men and she's amazing and she's absolutely right. you know, we, think we all thought that men were really just women in men's bodies and that we expected them to think like we did it process like we did and they don't. You know, they're... Surprise, surprise. It's like if you could just be like me, this whole relationship would be great. That's right. But actually, if I was with somebody like me, it would be terrifying because we'd both be trying to take the spotlight and the stage and get a word in edgewise. I actually had to find my compliment, somebody who balanced me and who stood toe to toe with me, who punched at my weight, but he wasn't trying to grab the spotlight. And the more that he showed up, the less I needed to. So that's like what I discovered, you know, when you do have a real man. okay, not a boy, not a man child, but a real man, then you're less likely to go into that control role is what I've discovered. you have you, is that something you learned? Yes, yes. If you have to step back, you can't take control of everything. And I always tell my clients in the beginning while you're learning how to receive, cause that's the thing we were never taught how to receive. And because of that, we became major over givers. And then if we're over giving, we're actually training a man to not give to us, you know, and because we're doing it all. So I always say, think about it this way. Think about it as let him give 55 to 60 percent and you give 40 to 45 because it helps her. It helped me too, to back down from giving 99 percent and emasculating him because men are truthfully wired to make your life easier. And we think they're there to make our life harder. because we do things so differently. But if you really come to the place of understanding men, they're amazing. They really are, as long as you don't think they're women. In men's bodies, they're not. I think this is so enlightening. I think I popped back when you said a couple of things, because I never thought of it that way. Tell me about this. I've been doing a lot of studying about you, and you have gotten so many women. married and on their course to finding their true love. I mean, you're really incredible, Lisa. And you came into being as a dating coach because you couldn't find a dating coach that understood women over 50. All the things we do as caretakers and through the menopause and the divorces, and some of us are widows, and no one was out there for you. So you say that love after 50 is possible not because of luck. but because of clarity. Can you tell our audience what you mean by that? Yeah, you need strategies. You need to know what you're doing. Most women go out there and they think, I'll know my type. I can look across the room and tell if he's my type. Not true. You can tell if he's cute. You can tell if your body gets the hormonal oxytocin going. That's all you can tell. So we miss men that might be good for us because instead of looking for connection, we're looking for chemistry and chemistry can build. You don't have to have chemistry on that first date. I've had clients who had no chemistry, told them stick with it a little bit. He's a really good guy. Stay with it. And they ended up mirroring them. But this leads me to the other part. Every woman who works with me creates what's called a quality man template. And this quality man template is a clear vision of men you're attracted to all the time because this is your old type and if he worked, you'd be with him. But we all do it again and again. We date the same guy and then we go, well, that failed too. And then, so we get clear on what those warning signs and red flags are so you can find or you can figure this out sooner instead of getting into another devastating relationship. Then we figure out who your new type is and we base it on where you are today. Cause when we were in our 20s, we were building our own community, know, kids, dogs, cats, houses, careers, cars, whatever. Today, it's not about that. It's really about support and love, someone that has your back. And it's a time to really play. You know, it's, it's a much freer time in your life than you will add back. in your 20s. love what you're saying and I want to just put a pin in another thing that you said that I absolutely love. We keep looking for chemistry instead of connection and because our lives have changed it's not necessary. What we need is that companion, right? That wonderful person that we can be with at the end of the day or even grab lunch with in the middle of the afternoon because now we're free and we have the time. Right. You the kids are God and you have this freedom. So you want somebody you can play with. That's what I'm hearing you say. that right. Yeah. But he needs to match you. And that's what that quality man template helps you see. Is this guy a match? One of the biggest things we run by are values. Like you need a man who shares your values because he can have all these qualities. But if you don't share values, you can't work stuff out. And if you're coming from different ways of living life, it's really hard to come together, especially when you're used to dealing with things in different ways. That's so true. is used to that. Lisa, I got to tell you something. I'm relating to you so much. For years, I dated and sometimes even married, as I told you before the call, I've been married three times, okay? So you and I are both in the plenty of husbands club. But I always married the same guy with a different face. And I had that pattern, and it really held me back from finding my true love. And they had to look this certain way. They had to have this kind of personality. ⁓ So I totally relate to what you're saying. What advice do you have for women who are dating that same type of man over and over again? You said something about a quality man template. Is there something women can do just in the next 24 hours to help stop themselves? from going after that same guy with a different face. Well, this is why I believe in coaching because we can read all this stuff, we can hear all these podcasts, but that's like a lot of information gathering and then we don't know how to put it together. So if I gave a tip, it would be really check into your values and see what your values are. And write them down, right? Write down your values. That's a big, when I teach workshops, that is a big part. get our values down, our top three values, mine are love, safety, and connection. Really big. And they all stem from my childhood and these failed marriages, right? knowing that can keep you, it's like a filter. from keeping you out of trouble. Now, I have a few girlfriends, on the flip side, I have a few girlfriends who are avoiding love altogether, Lisa. What would you say to them to motivate them to choose love and not isolate? So a lot of that comes from fear of loss. You know, they've had so much loss up to this point and they don't want to do it again. And another part of that is trusting themselves to choose the right way this time. And it's... If I'm gonna do it bad, why should I be with a guy that just doesn't work? Why should I even date? I hear women say, why should I even date? I don't wanna be out there and be a serial dater. You don't have to be a serial dater. You do have to date to find the guy, because you have to see who's out there. And you have to have that clarity about who you're truly looking for and not. You were talking about, you I had to have a guy a certain way. And everyone's like that. They go... I have to have a guy that runs or I have to have a guy that plays pickleball. No, you don't. You could do that with other people. I think the other biggest thing that women fear is they'll lose themselves again. because we did come from that Donna Reed era where our Leave It to Beaver where June wore her pearls to make breakfast and all dressed. And I think our mothers' generations did lose themselves. They weren't really the ones that started with women's lib in terms of they were bored and they were smart and they needed more to do and to have purpose in life. So now though, we've done that. We've had jobs or we've raised children. It's all important. But then we're afraid we're going to get into a relationship, we're going to start over giving again, and we're going to lose our identity again. And this is a big thing that I teach in my group programs is about honoring yourself first, because we were never ever taught to do that. We were taught that that was selfish and it's not. It's really the most selfless thing you can do because otherwise you're lying in that relationship. You're sucking it up and you're pissed and it comes out. Wow, I'm just thinking back to so many dinner parties with my last husband where I just, you my name's Robin. And I remember in this grief workshop I did after we got divorced, I painted a Robin bird with all her red breasts on the ground. all the red, beautiful rosiness of me had just faded away. And I was really afraid of disappearing again with a man that I felt like I needed to prop up. that he needed to have the biggest and loudest voice at the table and I needed to keep sort of quiet. Look at me, I'm not keeping quiet now. I found my voice. And that's good. Yeah, but it's, I understand it. It is scary, but I love what you said when you said you have to trust yourself that that's not gonna happen again. You're not gonna, you're gonna see those red flags waving in the wind as you're on this date with this guy screaming to yourself, wait a minute, I talked about. connection, safety, and love. I'm not feeling any of these things with this guy. Next, please. Check, please. I'm out of here. And just know as a woman of a certain age that we know that our instincts are our superpower. And when we tune into that, we will tune out of somebody that feels like a repeat. I kind of differ with you on that. Because when we're going on dates, I think we're so tuned into what our old type is that that's really what we're looking for. And we have a hard time. giving other men a chance and we're afraid to. Wow, okay. So that is also one of, was going to ask you what the biggest mistakes you see women over 50 making. And I think you've nailed it, that it's really the, you know, going into the old pattern. Well, he's not as handsome as my last husband. He may not be as fit. He doesn't, you know, have the same. whatever, cult of personality, let's say, which is exactly what you don't need and what didn't work the last time, those things perhaps. So that is the biggest mistake is falling into the old pattern. Is there anything else you see that are big mistakes that women do when they start dating again after 50? Well, yeah, you talked about safety. And when we're talking to someone new, it does not feel safe. If chemistry is buzzing, it feels safe. only because we're buzzing. And that's why chemistry is so deceptive because we can trust people that aren't trustable. Whereas when we don't feel the chemistry, we think they're not, they're not trustable and they're probably more trustable. That's how we choose wrong because we don't necessarily feel safe. That chemistry is a fake safety for us. Does that make sense? Yes. Another pattern that a couple of my friends have fallen into is wanting the guy to blow them up with compliments. And that usually leads them to find somebody who's pretty narcissistic because they're doing that love bombing thing. So if they've been used to somebody who's a narcissist and love bombing and ultimately has hurt them terribly because they figure out who he is eventually, then they keep looking for that. And if a guy doesn't give them all those compliments, it's really hard to feel loved or appreciated or pretty on a date because this guy isn't doing that. What do you say to somebody who's, and I have many friends in this category who have suffered, including me, suffered from the narcissist? So, yeah, narcissists are challenging. And here's the problem. This is a safety thing too. Until you can identify it, and that's what we do when we create the pattern chart of that quality man template, until you can identify a narcissist as who you like. Anybody but a narcissist feels unsafe. The narcissist feels safe because we're used to it. And it usually comes from family of origin that we've usually had a narcissist in our family. Anything that we, any of the issues that come up when we look at the pattern chart, we look at the issues and it is often family of origin stuff. Like I, my mother was abandoned by her parents and then she nearly died and was sick most of my childhood. So. I was partially abandoned. have a very stable father, but I was still partially abandoned. What did I do? I attracted abandoned men that had been either adopted or abandoned through a divorce or parents died young. You know, in the very beginning, this is before I created all this and now I know. But those types of men, those little fixer uppers, because I needed fixing up, we tracked where we're at, that was who felt safe to me. And that's why I was emasculating them. Right. ⁓ my gosh, it comes full circle back to that. Well, what can you suggest a handful of mindful actions that an older, wiser, and hotter single woman can take to get herself ready for love. I know Lisa, they should be signing up for one of your programs or signing up to work for you because I don't know where I'd be without my life coach, but to have a dating coach, that would have been a game changer. Wow. So is there maybe a couple other things that women can get? to do to get themselves ready for love, even if they've been really hurt and they're really scared? Yes. I'm going to answer that with the coach when I said it is a game changer. I use coaches in my life too. And we need a second set of eyes. We are so close to our own stuff that we can't always see it. And that's why. And I'll have women say, made so much sense of this. And I didn't understand this at all. So yeah. All right. Now your question again. What are like just three, four? things that a woman can do to get herself ready for love. Okay, great question. Number one, take the time to heal. Don't go out of a relationship and into the next relationship without really getting yourself back. So I remember when I was, 24 year marriage was done and I was out with a new guy after healing, know, a year after I... divorced. And I remember some guy came in from the Cleveland Guardians, that's the baseball team here in Cleveland. And I thought, ⁓ my God, my ex would have loved this. We are so become them. We give ourselves up, our activities up. So the first thing, this is why you don't want to date right away, get yourself back, find your passions again, heal your heart, but also get yourself back. See what feels fun to you. Because chances are what feels fun to you is what felt fun to your ex, because we give ourselves up. That is so interesting. Like, who am I now? What do I really like? What am I passionate about without him? Right. Right. The second thing is, is it's learning to love yourself where you're at. When we first dated, we were young. Our bodies were different. Our hair was different. look in the mirror now and we go, oh, I'm over 50. You are still lovable. The key is to come into you where you are today. A man doesn't know what you look like in your 20s or teens. In fact, if you showed him a picture of you, he would go, who is that? Because we don't- That's what Brian said when I showed him my pictures in high school. goes, that's not you. Right. Right? And so love who you are right now. And then I love the one that you said. look for connection, not chemistry. I think that's the, I'm gonna make that like the headline of this show. That Lisa is so interesting. I think that connection is what is everlasting. Absolutely. You want to go on a date and you don't want to... ⁓ knock a guy out because he's a little snoozy on that first date. First of all, guys are used to wives talking and dealing with all that. Men are not about conversation. Men are about action. So you want to go out with a guy and give him a chance. When we were young, we did not go out with men and say, nope, not going to marry him out, you know, after having a cup of coffee. We hung out. I remember my first husband and I, we were two. almost three and a half years before we ever got married. We didn't talk about marriage through all that. We just were together. I mean, people say, ⁓ my God, but the clock is ticking. you Well, not when you're over 50, the clock's not ticking. I mean, I guess it is, like you don't have long to live, but it's not because you have to have a baby. No, but people feel the clock is ticking for how long they can do this. You could do this as long as you want, but You really can. Okay, I if I was single I would so want you to be my coach So I am super excited that you came on the show today How can our listeners and viewers stay connected with you? So they stay on track with these great ideas that you have and learn more from you Well, they can go to my website find equality man.com and they can take a look at all the blogs the YouTube videos there's a lot on there you'll get a newsletter from me every week that just gives you ideas. And the ones recently, the emails I've been sending have been about losing yourself. And a lot of women have really resonated with that. The other thing is, is I have a gift for your listeners. Can I share about that? Sure, definitely. Okay. You know, we go on dates and we don't really always know what questions to ask. One of the reasons dates fall flat is because we go on them and we do the resume interview. How old are you? Where'd you go to college? Where'd you grow up? How many kids do you have? How many grandkids do you have? Do have a dog? Do have a cat? I mean, there is nothing in there that is slightly interesting. It's like an imaginary checklist up in your head. So I have my 35 best first day questions for your viewer, your listeners rather, and viewers. And these are going to help you create connection because... They're questions that share history. And that's not what we're doing when we're talking about what's your sign, how many grandkids. Yeah, there's some history there, but asking things like, what kind of games did you play as a kid? You know, that's fun. And we come across, all of us become more relaxed and you get to know the personality of someone. And even love this, I'm gonna give it to my daughter, my 26 year old daughter. The list of questions you ask when you're dating, that's not just for women over 50, that's- Fabulous. We're going to give it all to our daughters, all our daughters are getting this list. Then I'm also going to give you the nine exit strategies because I used to stay on dates and when the date sucked, I stayed. I felt obligated. You know, I had to be the good girl and so polite. You don't have to do that. And I nine exit strategies for you that you can use so you can honor yourself and end that date. And it happened. Before, this is before I was a coach, I went on a date with a guy. We talked on the phone. He had a great picture. The phone call was fantastic. Then I can't find him. We were meeting at a Barnes and Noble. I pick up the phone and some guy that's 400 pounds answers his phone. And I'm like, ⁓ my God, this is not who the picture was. And I decided right then and there, I did not have to stay. And that was the beginning of exit strategies. And I wasn't even a dating coach, but prior to that, I would stay. And no, you don't have to do that. So I love an exit strategy. ⁓ my God, Lisa, you are a gem. I am so happy I had you on today. Wow. I can't wait to see the exit strategies and the questions you ask on dates and look for connection, not necessarily chemistry. That could happen later. So many great, great ideas, Lisa. All right, everyone, that is a wrap today for today's podcast with Lisa Copeland from Cleveland, my hometown. Until next time, this is Robin Fischer-Roffer reminding you to practice those ABCs of love, action, belief, and courage. It's time to step into your new chapter and live your greatest love story. Bye for now.