SYMHC Classics: Paul Robeson

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Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. I drove past an exit for Peakskill, New York last week, and that reminded me of our episode on Paul Robson and the Peak Skill riots. And around the same time, there were also a bunch of headlines about a proposed measure that would make it easier for the State Department to revoke people's passports or refuse to issue those passports, which also reminded me of this episode. Since the United States revoked Paul Robson's passport for his activism and political speech, that passport measure in question was ultimately cut from the bill that it was supposed to be part of, but all of this was still on my mind. This episode originally came out on October third of twenty twenty two, and at the beginning we mentioned another podcast that Tracy used to be on called This Day in History Class. At that time, This Day in History Class was still being produced, but it is no longer releasing new episodes. We also do not have any news or any update to show here about a proposed biopic of Paul Robison, which we mentioned at the end of this episode. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class. A production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. Back when I was also on another podcast in addition to this one called This Day in History Class, which is a podcast that still exists, but I haven't been on it in a couple of years because that was too much work to do. I did an episode on the Peak Skill Riots, and it has been on my list for a longer episode over here since then because This Day in History Class is like five to ten minutes long per episode, and I thought it wanted to have a longer treatment of it. I bumped it up to the top of my list when it came up in our recent episode on Eugene Jock Bullard. And so it is today episode of the show, and the Peakskill Riots surrounded a concert by singer and activist Paul Robeson. So we're going to start with some background on him. Paul Bustill Robeson Senior was born in Princeton, New Jersey, on April ninth, eighteen ninety eight. He was the youngest of four children born to William Drew Robeson and Maria Louisa Bustell. William had been enslaved from birth and had become a minister after liberating himself in eighteen sixty and Maria was a teacher. Sadly, Maria died in a fire when Paul was only six. Throughout his life, Robesen was a high achiever academically. He earned the highest score in the state on a scholarship exam to attend Rutgers University. Then he graduated from Rutgers as valedictorian with honors that included Phi Beta Kappa and membership in the Kapain Skull honor society. He played multiple sports at the varsity level and was a two time All American in football at Rutgers and then as a former He was praised for his skills in both acting and music, with a just beautiful voice that was described in terms like magnificent and celestial. And he did all this while faced with oppressive and sometimes violent racism. He was the only black student in his class at Rutgers when he started in nineteen fifteen, and he was the university's first black student athlete. White football players physically attacked him during tryouts, and at one point he was pulled from a game when Washington and Lee University threatened not to play if he was on the team. Robesen stood up against this and other abuse, not only for his own sake, but for that of others. In an interview in nineteen forty four, he said of his time at Rutgers quote, I wasn't just there on my own. I was the representative of a lot of Negro boys who wanted to play football and wanted to go to college, and as their representative, I had to show that I could take whatever was handed out. After graduating from Rutgers, Robeson went on to Columbia University, where he earned a law degree in nineteen twenty three. But he found that because of his race, he did not have a lot of opportunities as a lawyer, so he focused on becoming an entertainer, appearing on stage in New York and London and acting in films. In nineteen twenty five, he also launched a career as a singer, with a repertoire that came to focus on spirituals working songs and songs associated with the labor movement. His wife, Islanda, was his manager. They had married in nineteen twenty one Robeson's career really flourished, both as an actor and as a singer, and it was groundbreaking. For example, for decades, the title role of Othello had been played by white men in blackface, and in the US it was almost unheard of for a black man to start in a role opposite a white woman. But Robeson broke this color line, appearing as a fellow in London in nineteen thirty and on Broadway in nineteen forty three. This Broadway production of Othello ran for two hundred ninety six performances, which set a record for Shakespeare on Broadway. By this point, Robesen was also outspoken against both racism and fascism. Starting in the nineteen thirties, he had become increasingly focused on equal rights for racial and ethnic minorities and on workers' rights in economic equality. He saw both his performances and his life as a way to support democracy and equality and to oppose fascism, colonialism, exploitation, and war. He traveled internationally as part of this, including making a trip to the Soviet Union in nineteen thirty four, and there he found an affinity with its workers and its peasant class, and he also said he felt like this was the first place he had ever been where he had been treated like a full human being, rather than targeted and vilified because of his race. After this busin that he had started learning Russian and adding Russian songs to his repertoire. He frequently talked about the huge difference and how he was treated in the USSR as compared to how he was treated in the US. This sympathy with the Soviet Union had a major impact on his life and career after World War II, with the start of the Cold War. At that point, it would have been seen as deeply suspicious for any American to express these kinds of views, but it was especially suspicious coming from a black man, particularly a black man who was also outspoken on subjects like racial and economic equality. In April of nineteen forty nine, Robesen was invited to perform at the Paris Peace Congress also called the World Congress of the Peace Partisans. This was a peace conference that had been established by the Soviet Union. After his musical performance at the conference, he spoke extemporaneously, and according to a French transcript, he said, quote, we in America do not forget that it is on the backs of the poor whites of Europe and on the backs of millions of black people. The wealth of America has been acquired, and we are resolved that it shall be distributed in an equitable manner among all of our children. And we don't want any hysterical stupidity about our participating in a war against anybody, no matter whom we are determined to fight for peace. We do not wish to fight the Soviet Union. However, before he even started speaking, a different quote had already been filed with the Associated Press. The AP reported Robeson is saying, quote, it is unthinkable that American Negroes would go to war on behalf of those who have oppressed us for generations against one which in one generation has lifted our people to full human dignity. The AP write up also reported that Robeson had called President Truman's program for colonial development in Africa an invasion that equated to a new slavery. The New York Times ran both this AP report and another article on April twenty first of nineteen forty nine. This other article was headlined Paris quote Peace Congress, a sales US and Atlantic packed upholds Soviet This piece quoted Robesen as saying, quote, we colonial peoples have contributed to the building of the United States and are determined to share in its wealth. We denounced the policy of the United States government, which is similar to that of Hitler and Goebbels. We want peace and liberty, and we'll combat for them, along with the Soviet Union the democracies of Eastern Europe, China, and Indonesia. Immediately, Robesen was denounced as a communist and a trader. Newspapers sought comment from other prominent black people, expecting them to denounce Robesen as well. The US State Department demanded a response from Roy Wilkins and Walter White of the NAACP, and the House an American Activities Committee brought in Jackie Robinson to testify against Paul Robson in July of nineteen forty nine. Robesen and Robinson were two of the most famous black men in the United States at this point, and so this was an intentional effort to try to get an equally prominent black man to denounce Paul Robson. Jackie Robinson apparently reluctantly testified that Paul Robson did not speak for all black people, and that while he was entitled to his own views, he sounded silly expressing them in public. Jackie Robinson also said of the ongoing civil rights struggles in the US, quote, we can win our fight without the communists, and we don't want their help. All of this was happening just at the start of the Second Red Scare. Civil rights, labor rights, and other progressive organizations were already under a lot of scrutiny did have communists among their members. The Communist Party also advocated for things like labor rights and equal civil rights across races and sexes, so it made it easy to brand other organizations fighting for these same things as communists. Many civil rights organizations and their leaders were eager to distance themselves from Communism as much as possible, and all of this fed into why some of the people and organizations who had previously seen Robeson as an ally suddenly shunned him and even condemned him. At first, Robeson, who was still in Europe, had no idea what was happening back in the United States, and when he found out, he initially did not realize the scope of it. He thought he could just issue a response when he got back home, but once it became clear, it was really devastating, especially when it came to Jackie Robinson's comments. As a black athlete himself, Robeson had actively supported Robinson's efforts to break the color line in Major League Baseball, and publicly, Robesen maintained his support, saying quote, I have no quarrel with Jackie. I have a great deal of respect for him. He is entitled to his view. I feel that the House Committee has insulted Jackie. It has insulted me, it has insulted the entire Negro race. All of this happened shortly before Robeson was supposed to perform near Peakskill, New York. He had performed in and around Peak Skill at least three times in previous years, and while there had been some protests, including by the American Legion when he was at Peak Skill Stadium in nineteen forty seven, this time was different. We'll talk more about that after a sponsor break. The concert that Paul Robesen planned to perform on August twenty seventh of nineteen forty nine was just outside of Peakskill, New York at Lakeland Acres Picnic Ground. It was sponsored by Pete Seeger's booking agency People's Artists, Inc. This was a fundraising event, with proceeds going to the Harlem Chapter of the Civil Rights Congress. This was a civil rights and legal defense organization whose founder, William L. Patterson, was also a leader in the Communist Party USA. This organization was focused on protecting the civil rights of black people and communists, so as an organization it faced a lot of suspicion. Peak Skill is in Westchester County, and this area had previously been both agricultural and industrial, but all of that had declined, allowing developers to buy up large tracts of land for cheap and then build summer resorts. About eighteen thousand people were living in Peakskill year round, and in the summer it was host to about thirty thousand vacationers, most of them Jewish people from New York City. Robeson's music was widely popular among Jewish people, which was one of the reasons for an annual summer concert in Peak Skill. Except for the people whose livelihoods depended on this summer crowd, the town's year round residents generally did not like them. Every summer, locals dealt with traffic and crowds and shortages of just basic goods and stores, along with just suddenly being vastly outnumbered by people they did not see as part of their community. In some cases actively disliked because of anti semitism, and other cases just like felt like they had different cultural priorities and views. I feel like this is the refrain of everyone who lives in a tourism town. Yeah, peak season is always please get these people out of here. Leading up to the concert, the Peak Skill Evening Star published numerous articles, editorials, and letters to the editor about it. Most of them were negative, describing Robeson as a communist and a subversive and the concert as a threat to Peak Skill. On August twenty third, an article ran under the headline Robeson concert here aids subversive unit in it set in part quote, every ticket purchased for the Peak Skill Concert will drop nichols and dimes into the basket of an Unamerican political organization. The time for tolerant silence that signifies approval is running out. A letter to the editor by local veteran leader Vincent J. Boyle equated communism with polio. In other words, it was a terrifying, contagious disease capable of silently infecting people. Public sentiment among peak skills year round residents was overwhelmingly against the concert. Multiple organizations spoke out against it, including the JCS, the Kawanas Club, and the Knights of Columbus, but there were at least a few people who defended Robeson's rights of play. One letter to the editor from August twenty six set, in part quote, the Prince danger that appears on the horizon is that those who think of themselves as good Americans should become panicky and forget if they ever fully understood and truly appreciated the great value of democratic principles, the greatest of which is tolerance for the expression of minority and unpopular ideas, freedom of speech, press, and orderly assembly. Another letter made a similar argument, although both of the people who had written these letters were very careful to point out that they personally were not communists. Afterward, they were both subjected to a lot of harassment and threats. In light of all this, the concerts organizers made three different requests for police protection. Those requests were all ignored. Meanwhile, the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars were planning a protest parade. The Joint Veterans Council supported a protest as well. In addition to the allegations that Robesen was a Communist subversive, the picnic area where the concert was being held was adjacent to cemeteries where veterans were buried, which the veterans groups found deeply offensive. On August twenty seventh, several people arrived at the picnic area to set up, including putting out one thousand rented folding chairs. One was novelist Howard Fast, who was one of the last people able to make it into the picnic area before demonstrators from the American Legion blocked the entrance. Although the organizations that were planning to protest the concert stressed that their demonstrations would be peaceful, the situation in the picnic ground quickly became ugly and violent. Demonstrators made a bonfire from the chairs and songbooks that were being used for the event. Robesen was lynched in effigy, and someone burned across. People shouted things like quote, we're Hitler's boys here to finish the job, as well as yelling white supremacist, racist, and anti submity slogans. The few people who had gotten there early to set up wound up cornered on the stage singing we Shall Not be Moved, which was the only music for the evening. Robeson had been kept out as a venue. When it was clear that the concert wasn't happening, some of the demonstrations organizers started calling for people to disperse. Police then cleared the area, but some of the people who had been protesting took their antagonism out into the community, mostly targeting Jewish people, artists, people who lived in the area or were there for the summer that, for whatever reason the protesters saw as suspicious or subversive peakskill. American Legion leader Milton Flint said of this quote, our objective was to prevent the Paul Robeson concert, and I think our objective was reached, and Robeson later said quote, they were not merely attacking me personally. They were attacking the Negro people, the Jewish people, and all who stand for peace and democracy in America. Robesen and other people who had been involved in this concert met at Harlem's Golden Gate Ballroom shortly after all this, and they decided to reschedule the concert for September fourth, which was the Sunday of Labor Day weekend. This time, the venue was in the neighboring town of Cortland, in the Hollowbrook Country Club. Once again, locals in peak skill and community and city groups planned a protest to oppose the concert. Since requests for police protection had gone unheeded in August, concert organizers worked with several trade unions to make a plan for union members to defend the concert site. It's really not clear how many people would have attended the August twenty seventh concert if it had been able to go on, but the crowd on the afternoon of September fourth was huge, with estimates ranging from fifteen thousand to twenty five thousand people. In addition to Paul Robesen and Pete Seeger, other performers were added to the set, singing classical music, folk songs, and spirituals, and giving an appeal for funds from the Civil Rights Congress. Union members made a shoulder to shoulder human wall all around the crowd and the stage as a physical barrier between them and the protesters. The concert itself went well. Pete Seeger later described feeling a sense of relief and accomplishment that their plans to protect everyone and get through the concert had worked. But then as the crowd tried to leave, the police funneled everyone through the same exit and down miles of the same long winding road where people were waiting with piles of rocks to throw at the cars and buses as they went by. The rocks had been put there ahead of time to throw at vehicles and the people in them as they left. Paul Robeson was driven out of the area, hiding in the floor of a van with the hope that he wouldn't be spotted. His son, Paul Robson Junior, was married to a white woman, and members of the crowd threatened to murder a different black man who was in the car with the white woman in a case of mistaken identity. Pete Seeger was in a car with his wife and two young children, along with his father in law and a couple of other people. Segar described one of his children in the floor of the car covered in shattered glass as they tried to get out. When they drove past a police officer and Segar asked if they were going to do something. The officer just said, quote, move on. Seger kept the two rocks that smashed through the windows and later used them as part of the chimney in the home that they built. At least fifteen cars were overturned as people tried to leave. Through all of this, some of the bus drivers fled, leaving around one thousand passengers stranded in this melee. Meanwhile, back at the concert site, demonstrators attacked people who were still trying to leave. Someone spit on Eugene Bullard, who we just had an episode about, and after he spit back, he was badly including by police, And even though all this was caught on video, no one was ever prosecuted for it. Although no one was killed, at least one hundred and forty people were injured during all of this, and some of them were seriously injured. And once again, as the crowd moved away from the scene of the concert, violence spread out into the community, targeting black and Jewish people who were still in the area with harassment, threats, and slurs. After all of this, news coverage generally condemned the violence, while often subtly or sometimes directly, blaming robes In for it, framing him as an anti American communist. The New York Times reporting said, in part quote, lamenting the twisted thinking that is ruining Paul Robson's great career. We defend his right to carry his art to whatever peaceably assembled groups of people he wishes. That is the American way. New York Governor Thomas Dewey ordered an investigation that was handled by District Attorney George Finelli, and it absolved police of any blame, but an ACLU investigation concluded that the Westchester police had allowed the violence to happen. The ACLU also noted that state troopers on hand had tried to break up fights or protect people when they witnessed violence, but the state troopers were far outnumbered by other officers, making up about two hundred of the roughly nine hundred and fifty officers present. The ACLU's report on the violence also included this statement quote, A comprehensive and patient investigation of these incidents brings to light one outstanding fact that the rioters believed they were carrying out a patriotic duty in what they did. They believed that the nation would applaud them, and the national press would lend them support. They believed that in denying freedom of speech to a political minority, they were following the lead of the federal authorities. We're going to talk more about the aftermath of all of this after we first pause for a little sponsor break. After the violence of September fourth, nineteen forty nine, a lot of people in and around Peak Skill maintained that communists had provoked the violence, but the only provocation they were referencing was Paul Robesen having played a concert. There was no evidence that communists had called for or instigated any violence, although there was ongoing Ku Klux Klan activity in the area. The ACLU report concluded that the Klan was not responsible for the rioting. There had even been a protest sign in the August twenty seven parades that had read, quote twenty years ago, we cleaned out the Klan, now we'll clean out the Kamis that said. Cross burning is heavily associated with the Klan, and crosses were burning during the riots and violence does seem to have inspired later clan activity, with clan members burning crosses that bore the label quote we protest, Paul Robeson, and communism. The riots also inflamed racism and anti semitism more generally. In late August and early September of nineteen forty nine, people in and around Peak Skills started displaying signs in their windows that read wake Up America. Peak Skill did. This also appeared on protesters signs, and it became a bumper sticker. In response to this and other incidents, including a controversy at Sarah Lawrence College, which is also in Westchester County, the American Legion in Westchester County established its own Unamerican Activities Committee in nineteen fifty two. Simultaneously, the riots inspired the civil rights and labor rights movements, including a new wave of protest songs. An album called The Peak Skill Story, including both music and spoken word by Paul Robson, How How Fast, Pete Seeger and the Weavers, was released just days after the riots. Seeger's song hold the Line was part of this album and begins, let me tell you the story of a line that was held, and many brave men and women whose courage we know well, how we held the line at Peak Skill on that long September day. We will hold the line forever till the people have their way. Nobody was ever prosecuted for the violence or destruction of these two events. Paul Robsen and twenty six others did file a two million dollars civil suit against Westchester County and two of the veterans groups involved, but that was eventually dismissed, and all the musicians associated with the concert had their careers disrupted. Performers including Paul Robeson, Pete Seeger, and Woody Guthrie, who had been at the concert but had not performed, were turned away by venues, had bookings canceled, and were otherwise closed out of the industry. Prominent politicians and people in other industries cut ties with them, sometimes publicly, but this was by far the worst for Paul Robson. He did not back down on any of his statements about US foreign policy or colonialism or racism, or his experiences as a black man in the United States versus in the Soviet Union. The FBI investigated him four years, but Paul robes and file on the FBI website where it keeps its vaults of stuff from Foyer requests, includes thirty one parts, and some of them are hundreds of pages long. None of this stopped his activism, though, and he did not back away from his support of communism or the Soviet Union. In nineteen fifty, he published a pamphlet called the Negro People in the Soviet Union, in which he described the Soviet Union as inspiring the independence movements in Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, and India. He also talked about Europe's colonization of Africa, saying quote, the Soviet Union is the friend of the African and West Indian peoples, and no imperialist wolf described as a benevolent watchdog, and no Tito disguised as a revolutionary can convince them that Moscow oppresses the small nations. Later on in the pamphlet, he wrote quote, the Soviet socialist program of ethnic and national democracy is precisely the opposite of the Nazi, fascist, South African and Dixiecrat programs of racial superiority. That same year, the US became involved in the Korean War, which Robesen also spoke out against. As he was preparing for an international tour of concerts and peace rallies, the State Department canceled his passport. Immigration officials were also instructed to keep him from traveling to Canada or Mexico, where passports were not required. Although he was still in demand as a performer outside the United States, he wasn't allowed to travel to work, and he was also banned from most domestic venues, so for the most part, he couldn't work in the US either. His remaining performances had to work around this. At one point in nineteen fifty two, he did an outdoor concert in Washington where part of the crowd of twenty five thousand people was across the border in Canada. Robeson later said his annual income dropped from one hundred thousand dollars to two thousand dollars. After the Peakskill riots, he and his wife, Islanda, lost their home in Connecticut and moved to Harlem, New York as a note. They were married until her death in nineteen sixty five, but their relationship was sometimes strained. They had remained married in spite of a pattern of extramarital affairs on Paul's part. As Robeson tried to find other ways to make ends meet, he started a newspaper called Freedom, which was one of the few publications in the US to extensively report on apartheid in South Africa. During this period, A paper ran until nineteen fifty five. In nineteen fifty six, Robeson tried to get his passport restored, and during that process he refused to sign an affidavit stating that he was not a communist. Afterward, he was called before the House on American Activities Committee, where his testimony was truly defiant. He was just not going to cooperate with what he saw as a total sham of a proceeding. He repeatedly refused to say whether he was a communist. He invoked the Fifth Amendment over and over, and he called the proceedings ridiculous. He said at one point quote, I am not being tried for whether I am a communist. I am being tried for fighting for the rights of my people. I stand here struggling for the rights of my people to be full citizens in this country. And they are not. They are not in Mississippi, and they are not in Montgomery, Alabama, and they are not in Washington. They are nowhere. And that is why I am here today. You want to shut up every Negro who has the curve ridge to stand up and fight for the rights of his people, for the rights of workers. And I have been on many a picket line for the steel workers too, and that is why I am here today. He also elaborated on that quote that had been misreported and had fed into the Peak Skill riots quote. No part of my speech made in Paris says fifteen million American Negroes would do anything. I said. It was my feeling that the American people would struggle for peace, and that has since been underscored by the President of the United States now in passing, I said it was unthinkable to me that any people would take up arms in the name of an Eastland to go against anybody. Gentlemen, I still say that this United States government should go down to Mississippi and protect my people. That is what should happen. And when asked repeatedly whether he had praised Joseph Stalin, he finally answered, quote, whatever has happened to Stalin, gentlemen, is a question for the Soviet Union. And I would not argue with the representative of the people who, in building America wasted sixty to one hundred million lives of my people, black people drawn from Africa on the plantations you are responsible and your forebears for sixty million to one hundred million black people dying in the slave ships and on the plantations. And don't ask me about anybody please. When the meeting was finally announced as adjourned, Robeson said quote, I think it should be, and you should adjourn this forever. In addition to having been essentially blocked from his career as a performer after this, Robeson's name was removed from the College Football All American roster. So one thing that we do need to note here is that Robeson's praise for the Soviet Union went way beyond his own experience of racial oppression as a black man. So many of the quotes we have read from him, he had a point. He was correct in his notation that the United States was expecting young men, especially young black men, to go to war while not protecting black men at home. Like a lot of what he was saying was absolutely valid. But what we're talking about as far as his opinions went beyond that, it's likely that when he visited the Soviet Union in nineteen thirty four, he did not know, for example, about the Holla demor Soviet authorities took steps to hide that from prominent visitors, and a lot of the other most notorious actions on the part of the Soviet Union had not happened yet when he was there in nineteen thirty four. But by the time Robesen appeared before the House on American Activities Committee, it was clear that Stalin's control of the Soviet Union had been ruthlessly authoritarian and dictatorial, and that he and his administration had carried out purges and mass deportations and executions, unjust imprisonments, and industrialization and collectivization efforts that had led to to widespread famine and death. But Robesen never publicly reconsidered his early support of the Soviet Union or its leaders, including Joseph Stalin, and he also praised other Communist dictators, including Mao Zedong, for example. After Stalin's death in nineteen fifty three, Robeson published a eulogy that was full of effusive praise, saying, in part quote yes, through his deep humanity, by his wise understanding, he leaves us a rich and monumental heritage. Most importantly, he has charted the direction of our present and future struggles. He has pointed the way to peace, to friendly coexistence, to the exchange of mutual scientific and cultural contributions, to the end of war and destruction. How consistently, how patiently he labored for peace and ever increasing abundance, with what deep kindliness and wisdom he leaves tens of millions all over the earth bowed in heart aching grief. At least in earlier years like the nineteen thirties and forties, Robesen seems to have been concerned that if he denounced anything the Soviet Union was doing, it would feed into anti Soviet and anti Communist fervor, which he thought would do more harm than good. And he repeatedly made the point that the United States had this long history of slavery and genocide that really wasn't acknowledged when the US was condemning atrocities that were carried out by other nations. But we really do not know his thoughts on why he continued to so vocally support and praise Stalin and other Soviet leaders, as well as other dictators when all of this became more known, or why he pointedly criticized the imperialism of Western nations while seemingly ignoring Russian imperialism In Eastern Europe. In nineteen fifty eight, the US Supreme Court issued a ruling in Kent versus Dulles, finding that it was unconstitutional to deny someone a passport because they were a communist or refused to sign an affidavit regarding whether they were a communist. Afterward, Robeson's passport was finally restored and he left the country, But all this had been emotionally and financially devastating. He experienced periods of profound depression and other mental illness, and at various points was hospitalized for treatment in Moscow. In nineteen sixty one, he tried to take his own life. He returned to the US in nineteen sixty three, where his life was increasingly secluded and reclusive. In nineteen seventy two, Jackie Robinson published an autobiography titled I Never Had It Made, in which he suggested that if he had to do it all over again, he would not have spoken out against Paul Robeson. He also said that his respect for Robeson had increased over the years because he had sacrificed everything he had, including his wealth and career, to try to help people. Paul Robson died in Philadelphia on January twenty third, nineteen sive seventy six, at the age of seventy seven. There are a number of books and films about Paul Robson's life, and in twenty fourteen it was announced that director Steve McQueen was working on a biopic. I have not been able to find anything more recent than that since like twenty sixteen or so, so not sure what the status of that is. Sometimes his projects move very slowly. Yeah, sometimes they move very slowly, and sometimes they just kind of sputter out evaporate, So who knows. Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send us a note, our email addresses History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.