273 | Keeping CCPT on Track: When a Child Refuses to Stay in the Playroom

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Hannah in Texas.

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And her question is about

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when a child leaves the playroom mid-session

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and how to handle that,

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especially when limits have already been set.

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So that's going to be helpful.

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I,

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I think the number one.

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Well,

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top 3 for sure.

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I don't want to misspeak,

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but

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top 3 for sure.

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I'm pretty sure that I hear questions about

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lobby sessions and or leaving the playroom or refusing to come back

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to the playroom more than I hear questions about almost anything else.

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So this will be really helpful.

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I'll read that in just a second.

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Couple of

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housekeeping updates.

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Number one,

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if you are interested in advanced pillar training,

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so reflecting feelings,

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choice giving,

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limit setting,

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encouragement.

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Corwell and I have partnered

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to do a

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Friday training 3 weeks in a row at the end of March.

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So it will be

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last Friday in March

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1st 2 Fridays in April,

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and it will be a deeper dive into the 4 pillars.

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So 3 weeks' worth of 4 pillars.

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Encouragement and choice giving are combined,

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so you have an entire

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course on reflecting feelings,

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an entire course on limit setting

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and then

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about an hour and a half each of encouragement and choice giving.

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So if you would like to hone your skills,

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if you'd like to be more adherent,

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if you'd like to do a deeper dive,

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please register for the Corewell training.

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It'll be in the show notes.

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You can also get there at playtherapynow.com.

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And

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that will give you an opportunity to get 9 CEU's number one,

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but also give you a lot of information about each of those four pillars.

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So I'm really excited,

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huge thanks to Corwell for giving me the opportunity to do that.

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And also,

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if you are,

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oh my gosh,

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it's February 27th.

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So

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if you are going to be next week,

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yikes,

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that's crazy how fast that's coming.

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In Virginia.

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Either to come to the conference or because you're going to be at the meetup.

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First of all,

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thanks to all of you who've signed up for the meetup.

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There's,

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it looks like there's gonna be a lot.

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I'm excited about that.

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We are hanging out next weekend,

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so Friday night is the meetup.

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It's gonna be in Richmond,

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Virginia,

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and then the conference.

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I'm speaking all day Friday,

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all day Saturday.

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So if y'all can fly,

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drive,

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plane,

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train,

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boat,

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automobile,

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I don't care.

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I think it might be hard to take a boat to Richmond,

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Virginia,

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but get the point.

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If you can get there,

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you need to be there.

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We're gonna have a lot of fun.

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12 hours of me talking,

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that's not quite as much as Australia,

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but it's close.

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So I might not have a voice by the end of Saturday,

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but we're gonna hang out and have fun.

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So please register for the meetup.

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Please register for the conference,

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please register for Corwell trainings.

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I love you all,

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so let's hang out more.

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OK,

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at least face to face.

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I know we hang out a lot,

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but you only ever hear me and I don't see or hear you.

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So let's hang out where I can see and hear you.

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That would be fun.

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All righty,

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so I'll read parts of Hannah's question and then we'll dive in together.

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I'm really grateful to have found your podcast.

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I love hearing the day to day experiences

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that I have mirrored in other people's questions.

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That's why I do it.

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I'm so glad.

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I have a follow-up question for when a child leaves the room.

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I typically say,

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you're ready to be done playing,

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but we have 15 minutes left.

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You can choose to play with toys or choose to do nothing.

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It's up to you.

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I have a few clients who will look at me and walk through the door.

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I don't own my own practice,

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and the setup is such that I can't sit

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my chair near the door without directly barricading it,

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which I don't feel comfortable doing.

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My question is,

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once I'm out in the lobby,

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how many times do I repeat the limit,

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and is there a point where it turns into a lobby session?

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I feel a bit of a disconnect between using ACT,

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sorry,

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I feel a bit of a disconnect between using ACT setting a limit

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that quote,

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our time is for the playroom 3 times and then having a lobby session.

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Yes,

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and therein lies the dilemma.

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So I'm really glad that you brought that up.

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OK,

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so Hannah,

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I know you said that you don't own your own practice,

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and many of us don't,

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so you're in a boat with a lot of other clinicians

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and the setup is such that I can't sit

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my chair near the door without directly barricading it.

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OK.

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Most rooms

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are

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pretty

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small access.

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In other words,

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the door is.

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Kind of usually in a corner

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and it's usually kind of in like a if your chair is

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there it's going to be in the way of the door.

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That's the whole purpose of setting your chair up in that

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location.

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Now it does not have to be right up against the door,

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but it needs to be close enough in proximity

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that you sitting there

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is a barrier to the child flinging out of the room,

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flinging the door open and fleeing the room.

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So while you say you don't feel comfortable barricading the door,

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I don't think the goal is to barricade the door.

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The goal is to be another level of barrier.

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So that the child can't just

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run up,

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fling the door open and flee out into the hallway or the lobby.

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Now,

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many,

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most kids,

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many and most kids will not

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ever try to leave the room.

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So we're talking a very small portion of our clients

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that will have the impulse to do this,

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rooted in a lot of different reasons,

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which I'll save that for a different episode,

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but there are all kinds of reasons why a child will do this.

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And the point is

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that we want to serve as a little bit of extra time and a little bit of extra

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hesitance.

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To

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dive into that impulse and flee the room,

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especially after a limit has been set.

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Essentially what we're doing is serving as a little bit

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of assistance for self regulation until they possess it themselves.

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We're not correcting the child's behavior.

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We're not insisting on compliance.

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We're not mandating that the child obeys the limit.

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But by being in front of the door,

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even if it's 2 ft in front of.

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The child can't just run over and fling the door open and leave.

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This is a safety thing.

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As soon as the child leaves your room,

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there's liability.

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As soon as the child leaves your room and is doing something,

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even if it's for 3 seconds,

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out of your sight,

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there's liability.

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So this is also a safety concern.

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And I know sometimes we feel hesitant to quote

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restrict or barricade or whatever it is that the verb we want to use to a child.

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But the reality is,

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it is our job to keep that child safe.

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And if that child runs out into the hallway,

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by the time it takes you to follow behind him or her.

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He is out of your line of sight.

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God forbid he trips and busts his head open.

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God forbid he trips and he bites a hole through his lip.

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God forbid he trips and breaks his ankle or his arm or whatever.

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There are just safety factors here.

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So when you have what we at the center call a runner

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who is likely to just leave your playroom really quickly,

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all kinds of reasons why.

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We have to have some methods in place that

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help.

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So we're not restricting

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the leaving,

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but we're making it a little bit more tricky.

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So,

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that's my thought on having your chair in front of the door,

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but let's get back to your limit setting scenario.

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So you said,

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our time is for the playroom.

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OK,

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so

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that's important

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to say that is a neutral limit.

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You're ready to be done playing.

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I wanna start there because

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That may not be appropriate.

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The child may not be ready to be done playing.

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Maybe they want to go check and see

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what mom's doing.

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Maybe they want to go out and get a drink.

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Maybe they

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are

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needing a snack.

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Maybe they.

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Are control needy and they're making sure that mom hasn't left.

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They want to give mom a hug.

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They wanna tell mom what happened.

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They want to,

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there's all kinds of reasons that a child will want to leave the room.

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So unless the child says,

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I don't wanna play anymore.

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Then we don't want to make assumptions with our validations.

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So,

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oh,

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you're thinking about leaving the room right now.

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That would be the most neutral thing unless we have

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an indication of why the child wants to leave.

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Now,

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sometimes

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when we pseudo-limit set,

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so we would say,

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oh,

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you're thinking about leaving,

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but you know that our time is for the playroom and we have this number of minutes left.

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Sometimes the kid will say,

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yeah,

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cause I just want to,

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and then you learn why the child wants to leave.

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Then that allows you to decide if

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The child

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is going to go out in the lobby and come back.

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If the child's going to go to the bathroom,

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if the child's going to go get a drink,

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if the child is going to go get a jacket,

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whatever.

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So

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often,

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if we pseudo-limit set,

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the child will provide us more information about

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what their needs or wants or desires are.

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So that's always helpful.

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So,

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you're ready to be done playing.

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I don't know that we would want to say that unless that's very clear.

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Then we have 15 minutes left.

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Our playroom,

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the playroom is for

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our time together.

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Both of those are helpful.

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You can choose to play with toys or you can choose to do nothing,

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it's up to you.

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That is very blanket.

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You're in charge for the time that we have left.

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I might tweak that a little bit and say,

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you're in charge when you're in here,

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so you can choose to do whatever you do inside the playroom.

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Notice that it's inside the playroom

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because you can choose to do whatever you want

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is,

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well,

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I wanna go out to the lobby

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and then you get stuck.

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So we have to be really intentional with the wording when we're setting limits.

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So now Hannah,

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when you said,

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I feel disconnect between saying our time is for

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the playroom and then having a lobby session.

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That is exactly the rub

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of saying our time is for the playroom,

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and then the child ends up in the lobby,

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which is why I really highly recommend putting your chair as a barrier.

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But

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if you end up in the lobby,

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You

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then ultimate limit set.

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Because

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the expectation is absolutely that the child finishes time in the playroom.

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You really want to stay out here,

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but you know that our time is for the playroom.

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You're gonna go through that 3 times.

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If the child is unwilling or unable to comply,

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then you move to ultimate limit setting.

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If you choose to come out to the lobby,

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even though you know that our time is for the playroom,

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you choose to immediately go back into the playroom for the rest of our time.

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OK.

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So you're making it very clear,

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you chose to not comply with staying in the playroom.

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So now you're choosing to go back into the playroom.

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Because you know that's where our time is for.

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Now,

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to provide an actual choice,

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you can choose for mom to walk you back to the playroom,

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or you can choose to race me back to the playroom.

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Which do you choose?

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Notice how now the

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focus of attention is how are we getting back to the playroom,

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not whether or not we're staying in the lobby.

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There's a lot of wordsmithing that goes on with

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limit setting when you get into these complicated scenarios.

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And we have to practice this.

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I talked to

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my coaching people about this all the time.

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Rehearse

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all the time scenarios when you're not in a playroom.

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When you are exercising,

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when you're driving,

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when you're

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showering,

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00:11:47,869 --> 00:11:48,659
when you're

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00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:49,710
folding laundry,

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00:11:49,789 --> 00:11:50,580
when you're doing dishes,

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whatever it is that you're doing,

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rehearse in your head scenarios and run through limit setting in your head

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because if you wait until it's real time,

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it's hard to have the muscle memory to execute it.

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00:12:03,469 --> 00:12:05,280
If you've practiced it a whole bunch ahead of time,

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it's a lot easier.

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00:12:06,830 --> 00:12:07,299
So

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I would run through scenarios so that you feel comfortable and

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equipped to do it on the fly in the moment.

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But the wordsmithing that has to take place,

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it's,

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it's a skill,

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it's a talent,

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and you have to be able to pivot

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00:12:21,799 --> 00:12:25,070
away from staying in the lobby to how we're getting back to the playroom.

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So I hope that that's helpful.

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00:12:27,549 --> 00:12:27,760
Hannah,

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thank you so much for the question.

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I really appreciate it.

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And if you all would like to reach out,

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I'd love to hear from you,

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brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

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All right,

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love you all.

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Have a great week.

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Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

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Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.