Thelma and Louise with Alexi Wasser

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Speaker 1: On the Dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best start changing it with the beck Del Cast. I welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin, and we have the podcast that you're listening to right now, and it's about women and how they are portrayed in movies. That's right, Usually not very good, but sometimes okay, sometimes okay, sometimes good good, like the movie we're talking good today. Yeah. I was talking to my friend about this. The fact that it took us this long to talk about this movie when it's been our header on Twitter since the beginning. WHOA. Sometimes I like to think about when we when we met up at that coffee shop to talk about this, and we still didn't know how to talk to each other. So yeah, I was like, I emailed you and I was like, do you want to do podcasts with me? I have a ninety literally an email and now I tell you every time I like p Yeah, what a beautiful friendship. I know. Hey, quick question, since we're talking to women stuff. I did something last night where I was like, would this hurt? Like, couldn't hurt? I was hoping it would help, but then I was like, put it actually hurt? Expired bad dresso wipes? Where are we out on that? Um? I googled it and they were like, it can't hurt. And maybe they're just not as potent as they would be. What is it? Is it like an itch? Yeah, if you've got if you've had a weird week sometimes you need one. And I hadn't had. I guess I hadn't had a weird weekend a long time. But I was just like, something's going on down there. And then I at first I like classic, I blamed myself. I was like, what did I do? What did I you know, I certainly didn't funk this week? I like what happened? And then I was like, you know what, Jamie, you're wasting time blaming yourself. Where are those expired vegical ones? And then I used them and today no itchin, no scratching, Oh good, feeling good. I'm so glad. Have you ever had to throw away expired condoms? Because I've had to do that on a number of occasions. That's the implications of that, Yeah, No, I have sex regularly enough to use the condoms that I stole from the Boston University Health Services office. Well, i'm allergic three years ago, as you know, I'm allergic to latex, so I really need to like plan. I didn't know if I knew that really. Oh yeah, the first two years of sex for me was like, I guess this isn't for me because it just it hurts, and I eat magical wipes afterwards, and I found out I was allergic to lateex and now and also I'm a huge advocate of the sex plan. I'm talking weeks in advance. Like I'm not one for the spontaneous meeting of genitals, so I plan so far in advance. I'm like, hey, get some get some non late text condoms, like really some goat skin. But I'm want to use a goat skin condom. But here's the tricky thing is one time, when I was briefly dating that vegan, he was like, I can't get a sheep skin condom. That's not vegan. What do you do? I don't know, you figure something out. There was a condom present when I arrived for the sex meeting three weeks later. So all's well that ends well, well, that's your public health announcement at the top of this Begdel cast. That's right. Yeah, should we introduce our guest. I would love that super She is a writer and actress, also a podcaster because she has a podcast called Love Alexei on the Nerdest Network. Not just any podcaster in Aristotle Associate. So like, this is like, hi, caliber guests, this is important. I'm very excited and it is Alexei Wasser. Hello, thank you for having me, Thanks for being here. I kind it so hard to try to be quiet, and this is your introm like tearing out and crying. I was like, man, I want perspect or live. They're very sad, they know they were and I'm thinking with you, Caitlin, expired condoms doesnt mean not having sexes means I mean I'm protected sex. No, I'm not. I'm not even having any sex. But I'm just saying that, you know, cooler implications dogs or run call her the raw dog. Oh my god, you're called raw doggin. Yeah, I have for sure said the sentence I only rod dog when I'm in love before I've never said that, but I'm going to start Holy sh it. It's a big moment for you know that. I'm like, that's how I have to tell someone I love them for the first time. I'm likely rod dog when I'm in love. I only rod dog when I want to be in love. Right, I'm like, I'm not in love, but I would like to rod dog. So let's see if we can just go on this journey to my mom who listens to him? Huh, yeah, No, she's cool. What's her name, Lori's raw dog. Sure for sure, Yeah, for sure. I'm looking at the result this man. My mom listened to our podcast for the first time over the weekend because she quote does not understand how podcasts work. It's as simple as a click. Mother, and she came back with you've met my mom and she's like a problematic figure. Jill Offfice, I mean, how would you describe her? Because I have years of coloring. I mean, Jill, she's a perfectly wonderful woman. Again, I don't have her as a mother, so I don't have quite the same perspective as you. But you know, she seems like she's a great lady. Okay, So here's the thing with Jill's also a likely we're all drinking Mike's hart lemonade that Caitlin brought and Aristotle got iced and he did Okay, we'll post the vid on the Twitter because he did an amazing eyes like he just eat no breaks. It was I'm going to upload it to YouTube and hope that ice culture comes back something. But my mom listened to the podcast for the first time, and her m O, my whole life has been like, let me say, then, nice possible thing about your friend, and then say, and you were fine too. Oh, She's like Caitlin is so intelligent and I was like, I know, she's really like she and my mom was like she went to grad school right, which is like not intelligence at all, but for Jill, I mean, Jill's like um. And then at the end she was just like you and the guests were fine too. Was this Oh God, should I see that? Yes? Yes, I haven't seen them. Oh god with Elizabeth Berkeley movie. I haven't seen show Girls either. I'll be back. Yeah, we got to talk about it. Another one of these things that can I get weirder. I'm sorry, I'm coming off a two okay, because I do have to drive to my mom's house after this my mom's house. Also, my mom and I got in a fight about Grayson Frankie. Why it's so jill. Like we were talking on the phone the other day and she was like, just so you know, I watched Grayson Frankie first, and now you're like co opting my show. I was like, you're so wrong, Like I watched Grace and Frankie first, and she's like, oh, yeah, well I watched it. I was like, well, jokes on you, it wasn't out. And then I was like, I hate Robert, I hate Martin Sheen's character. And she's like, because you don't understand him. And then we got into a whole squabble and then I hung up and then we call back and we're like, the important thing is we both like Grace and Frankie. Yeah, that'll keep it. That'll keep it on wherever it is. The air that's so strong, Like when you tell people you love Grace and Frankie, they do think you're kidding at first. Yeah, well, I mean I guess like an extreme love for that show people wouldn't automatically expensive. God, well, I think it's an important show because there's older women are represented. My mom loves it. She my mom is going to turn me onto it, okay, and you know, and I'm so happy. It's like a representative of like, oh wow, women are still allowed to exist and you know, past a certain point. So yeah, and be super funny and like the folk us. And I hate Robert. I hate Robert. Sometimes you're a Grace, sometimes you're a Frankie. Sometimes you can be Ausaul, but like, never be a Robert or get out of my life. Hey what if? Sometimes you're a Felma or a Louise transition. So yeah, that's the movie we're talking about today. This is probably the longest it's ever taken us to really just trying to like top our record of how long it takes us to get me taking on the blame like a woman does me Like, I'm sorry you guys, I'm so sorry. We're sharing the victory. Yeah. This movie came out in one directed by Ridley Scott, written by Callie Corey. I am not entirely sure how to pronounce her last name, but Thelma Louise. I'll give the recap the Caitlin's famous recap. Baby, I thin a good feeling about this one. O me too about this movie or this recap, this recap. Oh yeah, well I don't know why, but I'm really maybe it's some Mike's hard really ready for this recapt. Okay, so we've got Thelma. She's played by Gina Davis. She's a housewife, she has a shitty husband. We've got her very good friend, Louise Susan Sarandon. Louise is like, hey, let's go away for a weekend. I've got this cabin in the mountains. Let's just go and let our hair down and it'll be great. On their way, they stopped at this country bar and this guy named Harlan zones in on them and he's like, oh heybe Han gears pretty gears. And then he commits some horrible acts of sexual assault against Thelma, and Louise is like, hey there, motherfucker, how would you like a bullet in your chest? And so she shoots him because he's about to rape Thelma. And then they're like, oh ship, oh my god, we killed a guy. So they've got to flee the scene, and the driving there like, oh my god, what do we do? We gotta figure this out. They stopped at a hotel. Louise is like all right, I'm gonna go to Mexico. I'm gonna have boyfriend wire me some money. That's what we're gonna do because we can't go to the police because why no one will believe us that he was raping you. We were getting away. It wasn't really self defense anymore, there's no proof. This is just how the world works. We got to figure out a different strategy. So they basically become fugitives from the law. They get the money wired to them from Louise's boyfriend Jimmy, but they meet up with this guy j D a k. Brad Pitt who's super hot and cute, but he's a little thief and he snatches all the cash that they had. That's how I described a little feet little thief. Hey, and then I did do that, wait to do that. J D a little scamp. He gets away and he takes all their money. So Thelma takes matters into their own hands and taking actually a little tip from j D, robs a grocery store and gets away with a bunch of cash. So now they're like even more wanted criminals, and they've got the cops on their tail. The cops have gone to Darryl, which is Thoma's husband, and Jimmy and different people, and they're like, I'm my god, where are these ladies. We got to track them down? What are they doing? And they just keep committing more and more crimes. They can't stop, they can't stop. They funk with a police officer, they blow up a guy's gasoline hauling vehicle rig. Were you supposed to say spoiler alert before you that everyone has seen the movie, Yeah, we're gonna spoil it if you're triggered by spoilers or activated by triggers. Place. Uh. They keep committing more crimes and getting in more trouble, and then at the end they're like, you know what, let's just let's go all the way and then they drive off a cliff. Amazing famous cathartic film moment. I know a lot of people who have never seen this movie, and I think it's because they know how it ends, so I don't need to see it exactly. It's been I know what it ends. It's been spoiled. But you should see this movie if you haven't, because it's I wouldn't even qualify it as a twist ending. It's like it's just the ending right, Yeah, it's so great. I can't believe. I can't believe it took me so long to watch it. I watched it for the first time when Caitlin and you and I were emailing or emailed you and I was like, let's do this movie. You haven't seen it at that point, I had not seen it, and I watched. I was like devil worse product or Elman Louise. But yeah, I just couldn't believe it took me so long to this movie and how much I loved it. And there's also one aspect of it where it's like the Gina David's character when she's like with with Louise and it comes out and it's so subtle and smart how they do it. That the reason why Susan Sarandon's character was so activated triggered what have you and shot the dude who was trying to rape her best friend in the parking lot. Was it all ties back to the fact that Susan s Randon's character was raped back in the day. She's excess a victim of rape, So what is the reason why? And then you learned later on at the end of the movie, Oh, that's why she you you understand at the time why she shoots the guy because he's a fucking misogynist piece of ship rapist dude. But then later it's even like you know more lay, layerd and special, which I one of the reasons why this movie is so good and so well written. Like this movie has so much restraint, and it's like withholding of information and then releasing it, and it's like it just keeps building and every scene like heightens from the next scene until there's literally no choice but to dry. Is amazing, and that informs the reason. And since Drannon's character running from the law and not thinking she's going to get you know, they won't believe her, that's informed by the fact that somebody they didn't believe her when she was in Texas, right, so she probably tried to do. This movie is a movie about two women who are like, we know the system is going to fail us, so we're not going to even try to play by their rules, and they just like rebel against it. For the entirety, it's so cool to watch, but also it's so like the premise of it is so frustrating or we're like frustrated on their behalf because the only reason that they're like acting out in this way and they're so like, there's so much anger in this movie, which I love of because you never see like rape is so often used as a plot tool in movies as like to explain like that's why she's fucked up because you know, and but this movie like uses that real experience so intelligently and basically that that experienced colors why they don't trust anyone. And it's just like it's so well done because almost every movie mishandles it and uses it as a plot tool over like a real character element that informs so many of their decisions that is not directly addressed, but when you really think about it, you're like, oh, that totally makes sense that that's how she would see that. Sometimes I feel like rape is portrayed I don't know if you guys agree with this, where it's like it's it's portrayed it as this kind of semi sexy thing and this weird male, gazy way it's been that's been done before. I don't know they talk about that misrepresentation where it's like I'm not saying every single time it's a rape scene in the movie or a TV show. It's not necessarily sexy, but sometimes it's it's kind of provocative, and there's like an element of that where you're like, oh, wait, are we teaching men who are watching this? This is kind of like sex just like show in a way that it doesn't look like, oh, a crime is taking place. It looks like how you'd film a sex scene, which is not how this should be. And that's another thing, is like the way that film is rape is staged is very stark, and it looks bad because it's bad, like which is such a simple thing, but it's so rarely looks bad because we're so close to the characters and where you know, you're seeing like disembodied body parts as opposed to faces, and and just the reality of what this looks like from a distance, which no one ever shows. And it's like it's hard to look at, but it's like it's supposed to be. It's wrong and it's Kelly, I don't know what she's uh, do you know what she's written? Since then no, I'd have to look at up. Ellen Barkin was supposed to play one of the parts. Did you hear that? No? I didn't. She turned it down I don't know who she was supposed to play. I love the casting. The casting is great. All my current issues with Susan Sarandon aside, wait what are they to one of those she she she was essentially a Bernie bro and then she said, don't vote, don't vote for Hillary. She's a part of the problem. But but she does very well in this movie. And it was a long time ago. For context, I think the context of the year this came out is really interesting. And I was reading some of the reviews when it came out in ninety one of like critics were not sure what to do with this movie, and they're like, it looks feminist, but it actually isn't. For A B and C. And this was right around the Anita Hill hearings with Justice Clarence Thomas, and like all this stuff was going on. What do I have. It's a time article where you know, this was around the time where they were just starting to be women in the House of Representatives. And like the year after this, ninety two, A K. A. Jamie's year was called the Year of the Woman. A K. Jamie's here and Aristoles here too, right, hell yeah? And then I also have this cool quote from Cali Corey that I found. She said this last year anniversary. She said, as a female movie goer, I just got fed up with the passive role of women. They were never driving the story because they were never driving the car. It's like love it Callie. Okay, that's the Jamie context check. It's kind of fascinating that this movie came out when it did because the reasons they have for not wanting to go to the police and then not believing them, and they don't have enough evidence, and people will essentially victim blame her, like, oh, you were asking for it because you were dancing with hand cheeked to cheek all night. Those are still the things that we faced today today it has unfortunately nothing has. Basically, women often do not report when they are sexually assaulted. If they do report it, they are often not taken very seriously by law enforcement. The perpetrators of the sexual assaults are often not brought to any sort of justice or they did not face any consequences legally. And this is still happening today, So it stands to reason why they would also in when the story was taking place. I can't imagine what it must have felt like. It's this bad now, Like I don't know, Like I was debating on the way over and liked, do I want to talk with this doing not because Caitlyen, you know, but I mean I went through a similar experience like that in college where I was assaulted by my own boyfriend, and I mean it's still going on. It's been like four years of just you know, years of like, don't report it, don't say anything, there's no physical evidence, no one's going to believe you. Then starting to talk about it, and sure ship, no one fucking believes you because you know you're still with this person, and that's the whole you know, abuse cycle. And even when I went to the police a couple of years ago, it was, you know, I didn't have any physical evidence, what could they do or that's you know what you're told that I was in college at the time. You tell the school, they don't do anything, and it's still like it's the same thing. Where now to the point where now like the most recent thing that's happened is I I started talking about it and then was told by this person's legal representation to like shut up or they'll retaliate legally. So it's like, I mean, it's not any easier now. It's just it's crazy watching this movie and thinking in any way that someone could like view Louise saying they're not going to do anything about it and have doubt about that because the I mean, look at the brock Turner case, Like this system habitually fails victims to the point where a lot of people feel like there's no fucking point in doing it because it's like such a traumatic experience and odds are you'll lose like money and like you know, pride and like everything because they just fucking not to mention all, like all the backlash that the victims get when they come forward in in especially like very public cases like the Bill Cosby case. So many people were like, you're just doing this for money or attention, and it's like what, how could you even possibly fathom that that's why victim is coming forward? So it's it's bonkers. So yeah, these problems still persist over twenty five years ago when this movie was made. You know, who knows how much worse it was back then. Listen to your friends. Believe it, when women come forward about these things, it's not like a fun, fun thing to just say yeah. So we are getting very heavy on a podcast. It's usually quite light and fun, but to be fair, we are still drinking as we are, I'm getting like sad drunk. I wanted to address this because it's relevant to the movie and it's important, But we can also talk about other aspects of the movie, for example, the characters we've got Thelma and Louise. Another reason this movie is so well done is that the writer has written two very distinct and developed characters. You take Selma, She and Louise both have a sense of humor, but just like getting down to the very specifics of its like, Louise has a more like drying, sarcastic sense of humor, whereas Thelma is like kind of goofier. Louise is like kind of strategic and methodical and her thinking, whereas Thelma is like more carefree. And because Thelma is younger, I think that she's supposed to be right. I didn't. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure. I don't. Well, regardless of age, I feel like it's sort of established earlier on that Louise is like the more worldly too and has is less I'd like hesitated to say naive, but you know, has like more worldly. I should also, I felt like when I was watching it, when I Helma with Gina Davis, she's not dysfunctional and healthy relationship with her husband. I feel like in a way, she's kind of she's assuming the same role in her relationship. I mean, it's healthier, but she's assuming the same role in her friendship with with Louise Susan Randon's character, because it's like again, she's kind of being like bost around or kind of unless more gentle. You know, it's more loving for sure, but in a sisterly kind of way, but it's like still, I mean, she kind of relies on Louise, like almost like yeah, because that's how she lives her She navigates her life and the same thing in her friendship. She is she's the banda right, she's the but yeah, I mean, and it just goes to show that these are just two very distinct and like multidimensional characters um grow and change what they do. They are dynamic as when Thelma, I thought it was so smart how they By the way, it makes me love Riddley Scott because he made this movie. I was just like, oh my god, I can't believe it is so with it. But when okay, so Thelma has a fling with the new Bile Dewey ripped fucking gorgeous Brad Pitt and early early bread Pitt is already gorgeous. We know, yawn, snooze whatever, but he's so new bile and sexy and hot as fuck. Oh my god, love the word new bile. Let's bring it back. It's it's back, baby. But when so Gina Davis has this like fling, she's this hot sexy rendezvous sex romp whatever in a ship hole motel with you like whatever bere rooting for her during this, Oh my god, was like, so she's fucking getting getting sucked by whatever. Sorry, I don't know if you. So Gina David is getting slammed by by Brad Pitt and during that rendezvous, she goes, well, how do you rob these places? How do you hold a place you know or whatever, liquor store or whatever? How do you make your money? And he re enacts what he does, like when he when he robs a liquor store and then later after Brad Pitt steals on the money from the girls, Gina Davis retains and remembers the lesson that Brad Pitt, the thief, gave her when they were having their fucking sex romp. And then she's like, hey, wait a minute, I know what to do because I learned from the guy who actually stole the money how to do this. And then she goes and robs the liquor store and it was just so smart. It just all makes so much sense at all piece together. It's funny, it's and uh yeah. And and to see her evolution of her character or Tina Davis is like, I think this is my calling, Like where she's like realizes like she's a fucking badass. I mean she's been so repressed by Darryl, her husband, that like the first chance she gets to like kind of break free, She's like this, this is means who I've always been. Who's Susan's Randon's boyfriend. His name is Jimmy and he's played by Michael Madsen. Another is killed Bill who he's bad? He Mary? Oh, let's check. And also an exist anyone because I have a crush only on six year old Now I have a crush on Can. I allowed to talk about this and I allowed to haven't talk about my crushes and Tim Burton, Bryan Coffelman, who's married. I would never get a married man. I'm just saying, it's like there my celeb crushes or people i'm aware of who I think you're handsome, Anthony Bourdain, Okay, I think come on these men like so to Mend like that Madsin guy or whatever, Michael Mason, they existed, get puffy, oh sor to Vince Vaughn. It's such a bummer. Yeah, it's so weird when men reach a certain asi and they just get puffy. I'm body shaming that. Good. Let us do that to them. We get borrations, babe, Yeah, stop getting so puffy. Ben affleck and Gone Girl Puffies. Oh my god, he's a cheater. It's the puffiest movie of all time. I'm gonna like, I'm bringing down like the high brown nature of your podcast. Oh I love that you call our podcast high Like? Have we talked about questions? Can we talk about dates we've been on with magicians? That's true A mentally smell of the entire Boogie Knights episode just yelling hogs out hogs out bags are not high brow means, private means, but I would be remiss if we didn't talk about old crushes without a quick shout out to Alfred Molina, my beefcake. Oh my god, see married. Probably, I don't know my old man crush is, which is like not at all original or anything like that. Jeff gold Well, but Paul Newman. But even as like an eighty year old man, I would have still rolled around boy using his vinegarette as lubricant. Oh my, that's an infection waiting to happen. We can't just use just like I mean, you need some fresh ones. Also, Alpha Molina has been married to his wife for longer than I've been a lot a friend. I want to sit on this face. You do. I want to sit on his old face. That's how he dies. Kill him with my love. Our conversation is not passing the Bechdel test right now. You know I told you I was going to devolve your whole fucking feminist idea. Oh my god, I'm like, anyway, I have a christ I would propose an asterisk to the Bechdel cast, which is talking about fucking Alpha Molina should pass the you're talking about murdering bothering him with your love, pussy that's that's totally past the test. And honestly, he might just like drown. It might not even be a smart We're done anyway, moving on, I'm always so I do want to talk about the sex scene between j D and Selma, where like the first shot you see that is just Brad Pitt's very chiseled, hot body and it pans from his face down to his like abs or maybe vice versa, but like you just see like a lingering shot on his body, and like, yeah, you also see shots of scantily dressed Thelma. But I like that it's like equal parts, like hot naked bodies together for unequal pay and we're bad back. Well, I bet Gina Davis made more money on this movie than Brad Pitt did. It could be because his character is on the on screen for you know, ten minutes or happened. I bet he paid more. Still that's the problem. Well that whatever, guys, I'm sorry, stop away. Well, that reminds me of the scene where they've been pulled over by the cop later on in the film and he takes Louise back to his car and he's like about to run the license plate number and Filma comes up and she's like, hey, I'm gonna took this gun in your face, You're gonna get into the trunk of your own car. But the whole time they're doing it, they're just like profusely apologizing. It's funny and like part of me is like I wish they didn't have to apologize so much, but it is. It is like kind of played for comedy, and I do enjoy it because I would also probably do the same exact thing in that situation and be like I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry that I'm stealing your gun and I'm so sorry that I'm locking you in your trunk, and it's they're just so polite and apologetic about it, and it's I really enjoy the scene. That was. Yeah, that was so because like that's closer, I mean as fun as it would have been to have them go like scarface and be like not, that's not it wouldn't play because I mean, that's not how their conditioned. That's not how their condition And also, these characters are very new still at being these like rogue albamies, so it's more believable that they would be like, oh my god, like I'm a police officer and they shot holes so you can breathe. That's right. We're maternal, we're women. We can do it all. We can have a fashion. Later on, there's a scene which is like I would argue, maybe a little out of place, but I also don't mind that it happens where that guy comes up on the bicycle and he's like smoking and joint and it's about racism, right, I mean, gonna help you the police, and he just blows his like we'd smoke into the air hole and then he just rides away. And I was like, yeah, I'm glad that happened like that. That's a detail because we were talking before the podcast started, Caitlin and I about writing stuff and whatever, and I feel like that's an example of like a scene in a screenplay that could have easily been cut, but they're like, no, let's leave it or leave it in. I'm glad to did did you know that Callie Corey is married to t Bone Barnett Sexy Callie Corey also made the Nashville reboot that is her most recent move, Go Calli. Yeah, So t Bone started working on Calli's Nashville, but then left after thirteen episodes, and everyone was like, is there trouble in the te Bone Cally band? The world was a buzz and then t Bone came out and was like, listen, I love my wife. I love working with her. However, you know, they needed how fee distance. And also he had only agreed to thirteen episodes, so the fact that he didn't continue is not a reflection on t Bone and in fact it's just a testament to the fact that Callie's got it go on t Bone work on inside. Leewin Davis were not worried, and Callie was like, see you later, see you at home, love you. It's like, had a great relationship Katie Sigal and her husband on The Sons of Anarchy. He created the show show another you know, and at some point it's just like, can we go again? I don't want to commute to work with you. You know. Now, are we supposed to learn with the Bechtel Tester? Is the Bechtel test supposed to learn from us? Because as women, here's the question, because I find myself in my day to day just going how much time do I waste talking to every Starbucks, every brief that every Starbucks, every girlfriend, I have about whatever relationship turmoil I'm going through, like my dating issues, my conundrums, whatever. And then I go, oh, my god, what point is it about me venting and processing and turn into just a time stock of me obsessing over relationships and men? And then because it is a real thing that exists in real life, and that's why I feel like it's shown in movies women talking about relationships. That's not all we talk about. But it's like, I've got to remember this in my life. It's gonna be a lesson to me in the future. So when I start dating again, if I ever do not to talk about it, I mean having a life that passes the Vacteal test. That's what I'm saying about our life. My life fails the Bactel test. No, but it doesn't because it's like the Victeal test isn't about only talking about things that aren't men. It's just doing that at all. So really, every woman's life passes the Bactel test. If you call your mom and you're like, can I use expired vegetal wives already a passivntal test for the day, because that's not about that's about the opposite of a man. That's about expired feminine products. So it's like, you know, no one's life is going to pass the backtal tests. I'm certain Klin and my text conversations would not pass the back tell the time. Sure, yeah, it's just like you know, whose Instagram are you on? But what he does? It's so fun because, yeah, Aristotle, do you ever talk to your guy friends about girl stuff? You don't? Are you wasted? You're boring? He's sucked up on a smart house. Arizontle is the sweetest baby boy I've ever known. I got there. There's a page that put up a joke of mine this week, the kind of page where you're like, someone's gonna hate me for being a woman and can't win. You can't win. But I was looking forward to the variation on which I could not win, because it's like, once you know you're going to get fucking roasted, it's like, what now I'm just strapping in and who has the best burn? You know? And at the time, this was like a picture of me about a year ago and my hair was way shorter, and the comments had like some variant one like who does this short haired bitch think she is giving me sex tips? And it was from a woman. Oh, it's not the words when it's like a woman hating woman. I looked at her profile. She has a long haired bitch. Oh my god, not the answer. Actually, that reminds me of a story beat that I didn't pick up on until this very recent rewatch of Thelma and Louise, where the waitress who serves them like clearly knows Harlan he's the guy who attempts to rape Thelma. Um, she seems to know that he is, Like, maybe we can only speculate us. She doesn't agree, right, but she like she knows that he's kind of trouble because then whenever, um, how Harvey Kitel, the lead investigator, is questioning her, she's saying, like, he like, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. Um, it was probably his wife who shot him, Like she clearly knew that this was coming to him, and we can maybe assume that he has sexually assaulted other women throughout her So I was a little bit bugged by the fact that like, I don't know, she didn't warn these women that she wasn't more of like an ally to them, were like to stay away from him. He's trouble. That's true. That's a tricky gray because it's like, especially if you're at because even now, it's like if you put yourself in that sort of position where it's like you're a stranger to someone and you don't want to alarm them to the point where they want to leave your place of business. But it's also I don't know, it's all that's like a hard interaction to have. But it was interesting to see the fact that it's like, oh this for me, that was like more of a plot indication of like this is not his first assaulting women rodeo, I don't know. Also, I did like Harvey Kitel's character. Yeah, he's gunning for them. He was running for them, like in a positive way, trying to shoot them with a gun. He was just like trying them down, gun them them. It does make sense, It totally makes sense. But yeah, he was But you know, I appreciated that, and uh, I mean I had other stuff to say with this. Mike's for lemonade, with making so foggy everything, I just right where you want me, the warm dregs of like the cant and it was like so syrupy, an alcoholic I love, I loved every bit. My indie band is called The Warm Drags. The Warm Drags, The Warm Drag, The Worm Drags the Warm the Worm drags. You might be distracted by my tattoo, which is a worm. Are we having a third? Is that your second second? I was like, I was like, I'm down for third about a third? Having a third? He's having a third? Never just took his top off Channing Tatum style. We're not even talking about that when he was. I don't know if all of us are all flavor girls, because I definitely am I Banks of the Los Angeles or whatever, like kind of like alter whatever. But do you guys feel I know we're talking about Elmolise will get right back to it. You know when you watch, uh, what's the movie Channing Tatum, are we all guilty of like, well, I'm not normally into those kind of meathead guys, but like, oh my god, he's so hot. I mean, don't you feel like didn't you like get didn't you let me to him a bit? Sure? Oh my god, I couldn't believe me. I was so disappointed and exhilary. And that's not like the chiseled like Grecian. That's like, not my type, but what is your type? Beef? Oh my god, you guys were failing the betel Cash I ruined. It's me. I take okay, beefcakes and small men all the way. That's my emma eavecakes and small I like, yeah, I like frail pretty boys. You do. Oh my god, I were like never in competition one of those girls. Oh my god, I have like we're out of control, we're letting our hair down, just like so much fun. That's true. I love the cliff. If I drive off a cliff, I mean a guy named Cliff. And then oh, let's talk about let's talk about feminism. What's in the real ship? What's the movie film? I'm like losing the I'm losing the thread. What is it called losing the narrative? There's an Avril Levine lyric that it describes exactly what I'm feeling right now, but I can't remember it. Let's find it. It's do you know that song where he was a skater boy? No, I used to have I used to have a crush on the skater boy. Shout out to Stephen Masserni. If you want to fourteen, you got a skateboard. You're a sound kid. You got so tall. You got too tall for it. I got I got too tall for like everybody every room to christianize. We're bout the same time, you guys. It's true. We're both like six ft tall. Do you remember that website Post Secret? What Post Secret was there a book that was made like a coffee table book. It was a website. It was like really really really popular when I was in high school, and you would make a you would make a collage on a postcard and would say your secret on it and mail it to this guy and he'd put it on his really popular website. And one time I got my postcard onto Post Secret. But they're all anonymous, so you don't know. And it was about how I was five eleven but I had a crush on him boy who was five ft three, and I made this collage of like legs and then a really small boy and I sent it and they were like, this is a great secret. Oh my god, he needs to know. We should call him. He's still alive. He might be dealing heroin with my cousin. He was so cute and two thousand and seven though, and it's like, I wish we could make it work. I mean, we are derailed and I will just SI setting the doorway back to Caitlin. But I'm listening to um. Candice Bergen's Candy Bergen for those in the now, but her autobiography about her love, affair and marriage to louis like he made a who Made? Who Made? My Dinner? With Andrea? About to other movies? Okay, their love stories incredible. Googled photos because I was like, to know what the people look like. We're experiencing a better love than I might ever have. Uh, and she's way taller than him and it's kind of inspiring. Daniel Radcliffe and his girlfriend too. Sometimes I look a pic of them and I'm like, you know what, it's possible. What were you gonna say? I would like, get out, get the fun out, I love. I wanted to talk about the like the really gross Perverty truck driver who they encounter a few different times. So well, first of all, I think the first time they encounter him, he said something like I'm your muff driver, I'm your Stormtrooper of love. And I just want to say that if someone said that to me, I'd be like swoon someone might like just like it was just Star Wars reference as a pickup line on me, It would work, is all I'm saying. I'm just getting a feel for what the bar is here. It is low, and but then like, and then they encounter him a couple more times in the third time Rule of threes. Guys love it. They're like, pull over, let's do this, and then they yell at him for being gross and disgusting, and then they blow the ship out of his truck in a huge explosion. It is one of my favorite scenes of any movie ever. Can we talk about how this is the third movie we've discussed on this podcast that Stephen Tobolowski is the guy who plays Ned Ryerson. He plays He plays Ned Ryerson in all the movies and every single movie, always in character. He's so Harvey Kitel was like, I want to go help these girls, and he's just like, I'm Ned Ryerson. It's a great scene. Hey, I have a relevant comment. I haven't had one in about thirty minutes, so I feel like I'll have one. Okay, variation on apologies from women. Oh I'm sorry, I'm not sorry. The cool One of the cool things about this movie all Susans Randon burning brow shitt aside is that, uh, this movie seems to really activate for, for lack of a better word, like a lot of pro women activism for Susan Srandon and especially Gina Davis, who has since started the Gina Davis Institute on Gender and Media, which is like this really cool organization that does a lot of studies about how women are represent I mean, it's like perfect for us to talk about. And there's a great thing from last year. I've got some stats for you here, the stats from the Gina Davis Institute on Gender and Media. For everyone female speaking character, there are three male characters. Women only make up about seventeen percent of people shown in crowds and live action and animated movies, and just about seven percent of directors, about of writers, and about of producers are female. This is a statistic, unfortunately from last year. Not so. It is very cool that this movie seemed to really resonate with the people involved with it as well as the people who saw it. I've made it a life's mission to have everyone I know see this movie. People like what do you want for your birthday? And I'll be like, watch them on the Week. By the way, does Gina Davis produced movies? Does she have a production company? Because she should if she's I've found out about her and what you're talking about. When I saw Misrepresentation, which every person should watching it, I feel like it's on Netflix. It was on Netflix, but you can find it just google it. The only thing that bothered me about that documentary is that it it places a lot of emphasis on the movie. Twilight is like being good example of like I didn't even realize that first. I mean not a ton, but like the fact that it acknowledges it at all is a movie that should be like, oh, look, how I mean it was directed by a woman, but that movie is garbage and that character is garbage. Um. But apart that, it's like you set that aside and just watch the rest of it. Um. It is a very good documentary. Check out Misrepresentation. Misrepresentation Linda Ops. Did you have you read her book? She wrote a book called Hello he Lied. She's like a like an old school badass producer woman producer, and she I was working at something with her and she was like, Twilight, you don't understand she's in this dysfunctional It's like early options were choosing these two men, and I was like, I was like, oh my god, I had no idea. They're so cute. The point in because my my mom Classic jail, she owned the box out of the Twilight books and was like, Jamie, you've got to read these. They're so romantic. And I did enjoy some of them. But you reach a point in the where asl is straight up did he get out of his handcuffs? We cuffed him to the um. But there is a point in the in the Twilight Books where the girl was her named Bella. She is broken up with by Edward Cullen, and then there's a whole chapter that is just empty pages to represent Now you read the books. I read the books, and there's empty pages to represent how she felt, which is nothing. Oh my months, three months. I need to make this movie that I wrote that I forced Caitlin to listen to the story about we gotta find Janet Davis. She better have my I cannot believe I didn't even realize they were empty pages in a book and there to indicate three months of a young girl. I mean, but the funny thing is heartbreak is real. Heartbreak is real. But it's like you also go to school. You don't process it by just having complete emptyess. I throw myself into my work. That's how I, you know, take my shame and my sadness and I put it into something. After after my first breakup, I really threw myself into the school play you did, which one for sure it was? I played Classic Women Party, I played assassy secretary, but like owned, you know the Susans. Randon said last year, after that one and Louise, they predicted there would be so many films about women, but it never happened. And I thought that was an interesting thing for her to say, because I would wonder. I mean, I don't know what the stats were on how well women were represented when this movie came out. Definitely not well, But I wonder how that compares to now? Where are they represented now? Noel in the seventies, eighties and nineties to have a better job of representing like fierce women, like between like Alien and even like pre production code movies from like the thirties, the women's movies pre production code are fucking on. What's production code? The production code, the Hayes production code, which was instilled between like four in like nineteen sixties seven, which basically was all about censorship. Hollywood basically couldn't release movies that had You couldn't have like an racial couples, You couldn't have anything like sexy on screen. You couldn't have uh, like overt violence. Any sexuality had to kind of be implied or suggested that you couldn't like have any sex on screens. Why, Like so many movies from like the fifties and forties are just like not that racy, like, and you don't see sex on screen until like the late sixties. Yeah, So it's basically just a way to censor movies. And then it was lifted in nineteen sixty eight. I want to say that sounds about right. And then you see all the seventies wave of mail, but ours, who are you know? Show sex on screen sometimes while sometimes not either way, it's at least shown. There are like there are some movies I love older We never cover older movies. Oh my god. It's always like Jamie has never seen any movies but have but they're all just no one. Can we just when I come back in like a year or whenever you'll have me, can we all talk about an unmarried Woman, which is my favorite. Such a good have you seen that? Yeah? I know, we got to go back to someone. Oh my god, please, I mean, if you haven't have the guest, whoever the guests you want to be, I'm completely wasted for obviously clearly apologizing, but an unmarried Woman is one of my favorite movies. And then I also love Broken English and Swingers, but like first and foremost for women's sake, I think an unmarried Woman just you guys watch it, talk about it with whoever you want. I'm available, but whatever. A great next Spectel Cast, a few older movies that I would recommend before we do get back to talking about them, and Louise like, I've become like the weird podcasts Nazi. Someone has to do it because you're fucking with it together. But two ways that I absolutely love. The first one I need to rewatch, but I am not convinced that it passes the Bechtel Cast, which is the Bechtel test. We're also very very the Whole World at Um The the Women, which came out in nine, which literally, if I'm remembering correctly, there is never a man in the movie. It's so good and it's if there is a man. I mean, it's very brief, but this movie I do not think passes the Backtel test because they're talking about men the whole time, because they're arguing about men the whole time. But it is directed by George q. Core who was considered the women's director of the time, and he did make a lot of great movies with powerful female protagonists. It's also an early Joan Crawford movie. It's really good. And then the other one that I watched recently is Gaslight, which is an interesting movie for um people who are either have been in an abusive relationships or interested in learning where the term gaslight comes from, because it literally comes from this movie. It was like a play first, and then it was a British movie in nineteen forty, American movie in nineteen four with Ingrid Bergman, but the British his version is really really good. And it's about this husband who slowly convinces his wife that she's crazy so he can get away with cheating on her and in classic nine style, stealing her jewels. Her jewels at the end like he's like, I've been stealing your jewels the whole time, and she's like, I'm not crazy, but you've been stealing my jewels. Um. Yeah, speaking of abusive relationships podcast dictator um. Speaking of that type of relationship though. One of my other favorite scenes in this movie is when Louise is like, Thelma, you've gotta call Darryl see if he knows anything, because at this point they suspect that the police might be onto them because they've committed several crimes. And she's like, if he acts weird, if he does something like, hang up right away because it means the police note. So Thelma calls, She's like, hey, it's the Alma and Les Tilma hello, and she hangs up immediately. She knows he would never answer the phone like that under normal circumstances because he's such a bastard. And it is just the Instagram is I've never felt as good in my whole life. I'm still listening. I don't need therapy. I have a podcast. Let's get a let's get a T shirt. I want to make a T shirt so bad, but the podcast of anything, of anything I want. That's why I keep buying all my friends. I'm wearing my friend Gina Winn Brent's t shirt. We're talking at pre pod but everyone, everyone check out. Gina win Wrench wrote this amazing book called Someone Plays Has Sex with Me and also buy her T shirts because she's very She's like so talented and she's in Chicago and it's like, my friend, I can't see you. Does anyone have any final thoughts about the movie? Um, if you haven't seen this movie, please see this movie. Like, so we've spoiled everything, but we've still see it anyway, But like, watching the dynamics between these characters unfold really is a master class not in justin like movie writing, because I remember when I was in film school, like they film school too, sort of. I technically majored in radio, but I took a lot of film class. Hey, you're living your dream right now. You have a podcast. We all are friends. Now you're gonna give me notes on my script and you are too. You're gonna do that professional you do. Yeah, oh my god, can you see the biggest mistake of your life? Let me have your email address and letting me cut your arm. I'm very expensive. Oh no, I've gotten I know. I Actually I'm pretty reasonable. I've compared to other people might provide similar services. Oh my god, I can't afford it. We'll talk any amount of money afford it. I'm just gonna finish my third free micro limit God and invite you one of my podcast for this. I'll try to fenable something out of you. Okay, pointing to Jamie, But I'm sorry, what's going on? So any final thoughts? This movie is great? Oh yeah, I was told. I was told, like even when I was in film school, to read the screenplay to this movie just because it's such a great exercise and like story structure. Um, so all your story heads out there, story heads, shout out to my story heads. Story I have a big story head following. So to all my story heads, read this movie and see this movie just because it portrays women in a way that is not skewed or insane. And you know, like these characters are making drastic choices, but they're all very grounded and you don't see that a lot. Everyone see this movie. To that, I would like to add that women are so rarely written well, or at least written interestingly, because we have different times. We've discussed a movie where like a one woman character is a badass, like Trinity from the matrix, but she's not necessarily like a kick. Yeah, she can's my favorite it's my favorite coat, and she's cool, and she might have some quippy lines of dialogue, but she doesn't really feel like a real person, like these two women feel like real women. It's just so refreshing to see that on screen. Uh. And sometimes, you know, I don't mind it if a character is just like I wear cool sunglasses and I punch people and I have a cool line of dialogue. It depends on the genre. Like sometimes it's fine, but yeah, I just I just love this movie so much in regards to the only kicking female and a lot of action movies. I feel like I've said that a couple different times, like a kick. Uh. And that is completely lifted from this really good McSweeney's article that everyone should read, called as the token female member of this action adventure team, my job is to kick and it's by writer name Julianna Gray. It is so fucking funny. It's star arts. I wear black leather pants, I wear spike healed boots. When I kick, I pivot like a goth ballerina and drive a heel into a villain's face. It is every token female action hero and it's so good, so read it. I would just like to say, Caitlin, I apologize for not respecting you accepting money for your services because you're a woman and a human being and you provide a service, and the fact that I'm trying to not pay for it, it's really fucked up. I just want to say that. Second of all, thank you for letting me be here, and thank you for coming and for you know, smucking up your podcast taking it down and not your twelve talking about boys. Haven't We are very highbrow, you know, and I ruined it today. But I will get better. Okay, it's a working projects. Another thing that I would like to say is Thelma and Louise made me want to go on a road trip with the best We'll get a best friend, Okay, go find a car that could manage to drive and going to road trip. Fucking murder, misogynist, rapist mainly have sex with somebody like bred Pitt and then let drive off a cliff and kill myself. That's like, that's how moved I was. And now knowing that they're the misrepresentation of women in film is like so intense and heightened makes me want to, like even more inspired to make the movie that I just wrote and fucking find Tina Davis and like make a movie that's like the modern There are not enough Elm and Louise. Is now more Felm and Louise, So I'm inspired. Here's another thing with this. Doing this podcast today made me feel I have to share my feelings sloppy and sloppy and tipsy styles and by the way, therapy. I have lots of things I want to be doing and aspire to in my life. But then I realized the joy I experience just sitting here with you ladies and being in the moment talking about stuff and living my gosh star in life. This made me realize what life is all about, just having fun time by meeting new girls, like drinking my star. Somebody talked about feelings or whatever. Okay, you're welcome. That was beautiful. I will never be back. Okay, let me come back sometimes. Yes, anytime I'm feeling really good right now, Yeah, I'm going to be operated. That's so high. But we can read my clibit article about it. Probably episode comes out. Sorry, this is how I make my living. Okay, no, no, me, I got a babory thing. I get it. I have to overcharge for script analysis, I get it. It's complicated anyway, Alexei, it has been the biggest pleasure to have you here best. Is there anything you would like to plug or where can people find you online? I just want to say I love both of you. You're both many friends. I want to invite you to be on my podcast. It's called Love Alexei on nurdiced Aristotle is also my producer, and hey, I'll see you on the other side. Oh my gosh, there is another end to this rainbow. Oh can we just all assume we gave this five nipples? Right? We have to does the movie past the Bectel test obviously, pretty much any scene where Thelma and Louise are together. Sometimes they do talk about Darryl and how he's a piece of it. Sometimes to talk about Jimmy and how he also kind of sucks. They also objectified j D quite a bit, But most of their conversations are about their plans on how they're going to handle the situation they're in, the trip that they're going to take before everything goes to ship, et cetera. What what was happening Jamie. I just I'm sorry. First of all, I'm drunk. Second of all, I just got so close to the mic on accident, like I might like that I smelled it smell bad. No, it smells kind of good. It smells like people's thoughts. O good. But I got so close that my nostrils resting on the mic and then I inhaled, like deeply quick, pitch, real quick before we throw about the Caitlin. What if a whole movie happened inside a woman's head when she's overthinking and she's like, what did it all mean? When even take me that? I think this is what happened on you, because now you have well on this plane bad all right? It would be kind to the back to test, no question about it. Um. We rate the movie on a god. How do you talk? Nipples? Yes, I give the movie five nipples. Nipples, Alexei, would you like to write on our nipples nipples? Fifteen nipples? I love when we have fifteen nipples in the room, Thelma and Louise super movie, Very well done, we love it. Let's for good twelve back of Mike's Hard Every Time. Yes, listen to Alexei's podcast Love Alexei. Listen to our podcast, The becktel Cast. You can find us online on Twitter at becktel Cast. You can email us at the becktel Cast at gmail. Now we do. We forgot that we had an email account, and then we like the emails. We've got emails from fans. Oh, everyone's complaining about our emails, right, it's a scandal. Yes, please emails. We will. It might take us some time to write back, but we stopped talking about our damn emails. Everyone. Just man, don't drive off a cliff. No, stay on the edge of that cliff and just fucking went on the edge. Live on the edge of the cliff, and then grab your best friend and give her a little kiss on the forehead. Yes, all right, I think that'll do it, okay. By By