John Harbaugh's Firing Will Reshape the Offseason

00:00:05
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're always ready for an unexpected podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wesley podcast studio with Jordan rod Rieg, the same woman who just twenty minutes ago left the studio to get ready and move on with the rest of her day. And then we called her back because I first learned from your text that John Harbaugh has been fired as head coach of the Baltimore Ravens. That comes from our insiders at NFL Network and many other places, and so we're going to do a show, a quick one about this. You will also have our great See You Next Tuesday show popping up in your feed on Wednesday, where we go through some awards and some holiday cards, and that's fun too. But man, John Harbaugh, there just aren't many coaches in this history recent history of the NFL that it's stayed in the job that long. He's the second longest head coach in terms of tenure in the league. But he's been the head coach of the Ravens for eighteen of their thirty seasons. They've only had three coaches. Marcha Broda had a couple of years and it was Brian Billick, who won a Super Bowl. John Harbaugh won a super Bowl. But it's been a while and they decided this was the time to do it. I'll let you start anywhere that you want.

00:01:26
Speaker 2: Jordan, Well, we had thought that this was a really genuine possibility.

00:01:32
Speaker 1: We've been banging this drama on NFL daily for a while. That the timing made sense.

00:01:36
Speaker 3: The timing of it made sense.

00:01:37
Speaker 2: You have made the great point multiple times, Greg that because the Ravens are a well run organization and that they're a good team, that to look at the stall outs that seem to happen to this team over the last couple of years and the lack of playoff runs and all of those things, that change was necessary. And I think it's also true, and I know that our friend Daniel Jeremiah believes this as well, that wherever John Harbaugh goes next is going to have an incredible ripple effect across the entire NFL. Even teams that currently have head coaches employed may think long and hard about this. And also that whoever the Ravens go with next, the process is sure to be thorough and they want somebody there for the long term.

00:02:28
Speaker 1: All great points. Let's start about the impact around the league, because I do think that Harbaugh was the missing piece for this news cycle, and there were six openings before and people thought it was going to be less of a year. Mike McDaniel in Miami feels like the obvious guy who could be in trouble because they might be a team that would want to go after John Harbaugh.

00:02:55
Speaker 3: There are two where there's smoke. There's fire flares.

00:02:58
Speaker 2: For me, you know when the hair on the back of your neck starts tingling a little bit. And these are the two for me. One that the team has not definitiatively come out and said or stated that Mike McDaniel is staying right, and we also have learned since that he's not going to be taking a huge role in the GM interviews to this point. The second was, you know I reported this, ESPN initially reported this, and I confirm this this afternoon via source that Chad Alexander, the assistant general manager of the Jim Harbaugh led Los Angeles Chargers with under former Ravens assistant Joe Hortizy, he will be interviewing for the Miami Dolphins general manager position. So if we're going to do the Windy pointing.

00:03:49
Speaker 4: Yes, a little.

00:03:50
Speaker 3: What's going on in Miami?

00:03:52
Speaker 2: To me, the red flags point toward, first of all, the Dolphins, I think rightfully going through all of their options here, which is if Mike McDaniel stays in place as the head coach. I think it's fair to say that's a big if at this point. With Harbaugh loose, then they are looking at three candidates who he has worked with previously in San Francisco. Among those three, I believe Josh Williams to be the favorite. Now they're also looking at other candidates including are our guy Alec Hallaby, who we have a great deal respect for on this show, assistants Caama, the Philadelphia Eagles, and John Eric Sullivan, who is an executive in Green Bay. At this point, so to me, this Miami Dolphins team is doing a lot of what ifs and research with the opening of these interviews. Chad Alexander was not included in the initial announcement of candidates that the Dolphins were going to bring in to be interviewed by the team. This leaks out today this morning, just an hour before it leaks that John Harbaugh has been fired by the Baltimore Ravens. Chad Alexander spent twenty years with the Baltimore Ravens.

00:05:06
Speaker 1: Well, it's just funny how many connections there are and how Michigan is at the center of all of it, because I think the timing of it, that it didn't take that long to happen, that it was not announced as a mutual partying of ways, at least by Tom Pelsero, Mike Garrifolo, just to name our guys. NFL network was announced as a firing. The Ravens didn't want to wait around either, and you just kind of again start connecting to that Jesse Minter is going to almost certainly be a candidate in Baltimore because of his history there, Yes, potentially in Las Vegas, who knows, maybe in Miami Stephen Ross, who has really strong ties to Michigan, and obviously John Harbaugh and Jim Harbaugh and you're talking about Chadlott Alexander. Timing matters here, and the Ravens might not have wanted to wait a long around too long because some of the people that they want to talk to mentor specifically, you know, they don't want him to take a job elsewhere. And similarly, like the Dolphins are getting there ducks in a row for many different possibilities. Yes, the interesting part about all this is there's no guarantee that they can close that deal and get John Harbaugh because he could have interest from other organizations. Giants reporters have more or less reported and hinted around in the last day or two that if Harbaugh were to become available, that he would be a person that they would want to talk to. Who knows if another Michigan connection, Tom Brady would want to talk to John Harbaugh in Las Vegas. So Miami's in a really interesting situation where like there may be they're like, well, if we're ranking the options, McDaniels, maybe two or I don't know if there's someone else, like a three behind Harbab, But we got to see if we can get Harbaugh first. And it's it's all going to be fascinating over the next cuple weeks. And Frankly, even though you know, I'm not happy for a guy to lose his job, but I'm kind of happy because I wanted to see another coach with Lamar Jackson number one.

00:07:08
Speaker 4: That's why I think it made sense.

00:07:09
Speaker 1: I just think you had to find another coach from its way, and then number two, it's going to be good content like a lot of back room trading.

00:07:15
Speaker 4: There's like a lot of doation hiring Macnation.

00:07:18
Speaker 2: Right because this is this is a situation where John Harbaugh one hundred percent, even in ways that Jim Harbaugh did not possess when he was looking into rejoining the NFL, John Harbaugh has the cat bird seat here. John Harbaugh will have multiple franchises where they currently have a game.

00:07:38
Speaker 4: For God, Gavin wouldn't hire.

00:07:40
Speaker 3: People were a little off put by by by all of that.

00:07:44
Speaker 2: And but now John Harbaugh will not only have the open jobs, a couple of the open jobs coming after him, but also potentially jobs that aren't quite yet open and coach and teams who have been considering possibly making a change at head coach. For while, I think this is fascinating, it puts Kevin Stefanski, previously considered maybe the top candidate on the job market this cycle, it puts him down a rung in terms of the potential. You might see teams like the Arizona Cardinals step up, by the way, who currently have in their employee a coordinator who once worked under Kevin Stefanski Andrew Petsing and runs an offense that it's very clear the GM likes and wants and wants to run, and perhaps a change at head coach and play caller is something that comes into play there for the Arizona Cardinals. This entire where I don't know that the Cardinals would have had a shot at Stefanski previously. This all come this changes so much about this cycle so early on in the cycle.

00:08:43
Speaker 3: It's fascinating.

00:08:44
Speaker 1: I think you're right that the ultimate ending of all this, and the biggest news to come from it, is that Jacoby Brissett will continue king mate, you know, with you know, reuniting with Kevin Stefanski in Arizona. But all that all could happen. Let's kind of go back to the Raven side of it. So it's obviously a seismic decision the Ravens when they fired Brian Billick. I know he's coming off a bad year, but he had won a Super Bowl not too you know, far in the distant past, and had had a lot of success there. I think had a really good sense of when the right time was to fire him. They were so close to firing John Harbaugh, according to all the reporting that was happening around the time that Lamar Jackson first got into the lineup. He had a five and eleven season, he had an eight and eight season, And I believe during Lamar Jackson's rookie year, you know, he takes over a team with a losing record, he helps it. John Harbaugh puts his arms around Lamar Jackson in a really productive way.

00:09:49
Speaker 4: They turn it around. In the short term.

00:09:51
Speaker 1: Harbaugh gets one more year and that turns into a really long and successful run with Lamar and Harbaugh together. They didn't win much in the playoffs. They won four games in the playoffs. They never won back to back games in the playoffs. They made one AFC championship. Harbor had started out his career winning a lot of games in the playoffs. I think it's a little unfair to just go off of that, and they are coming off a thirteen win season, a twelve win season before this eight and nine. I just think if you look at everything he did there, it just felt a little stale, like they kept replacing the defensive coordinator over and over and over and over, and he's not a guy who is providing schematic advantages and it just felt like a guy who had unmassed so much power within that building. And yet I think they're an organization that wants to be front office run down from a strong ownership to a really strong front office GM. Eric DeCosta has done a good job. He's not going anywhere. To me, the real strong people in this organization are Ozzie Newsom and then Eric DaCosta, and so I think ultimately, as much as they want to coach to come in and be a part of this team for the next decade plus, that they would feel come sortable because they have such a strong organization in place. And that's why I've seen a lot of Ravens fans be like, good luck trying to find someone better than him, or I think trust in your organization that sometimes great things end.

00:11:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's like it's a great marriage. It was a great professional partnership, and it was it was eighteen freaking years. That's a long time.

00:11:19
Speaker 3: Because of the strength of the front office.

00:11:22
Speaker 2: And it's not just the GM, it's also the tenure of the executive assistants who work right under the GM. It is also the scouting The tenure of the scouting department it's the language of evaluation and team building that take a roster and turn it into a team, into an ecosystem.

00:11:40
Speaker 3: That is what the Ravens have been so good at.

00:11:43
Speaker 2: It is the rare, rare case of I think it's totally fine that there's going to be an overhang GM. I think normally, I think that's a terrible decision for a team to make, to have, and it usually sets a coach up for failure at least a shorter leash or some sort of power strung in the middle of that coach's tenure. Maybe the coach wins, maybe it doesn't. In this case, this is a rare example of one where I'm like, fine, I trust who they're going to hire.

00:12:09
Speaker 4: I do. Yeah.

00:12:10
Speaker 1: I think it's a case by case basis. When it comes to that, you're right. Probably more often than not, it's not a great situation. But if for some reason the Buccaneers wanted to make it changes here with Todd Bowles, like you would trust Jason light to make the next hire. And when you think about Eric DaCosta, he actually hasn't ever made his head coaching higher and he's not making it in a vacuum. I think Steve a shot of the owner is the most important voice in that room. But ultimately Harbaugh was an inherited coach for DaCosta and look, Ozzie Newsom is still there. Jesse Minter is a guy that Daniel Jeremiah quickly suggested it's pretty easy just from the outside looking in to connect the dots because he was literally in the building. He also has the Michigan connections, you know, spending time with John I mean Jim back in the day, and he is one name that comes to mind. Any others that come to mind as potential candidates, well, this is.

00:13:03
Speaker 2: The one also where I said, you know, I think this ends up shaking Stefanski loose a little bit for maybe other teams. But I do think Stefanski could also be a candidate for this because if you think about the quarterback and maximizing the quarterback, and no, Kevin Stefanski has not maximized the half dozen like people that they just decide to throw at the quarterback position over time under that ownership group, and with that GM, I think that he I think he's got this type of coaching ability still in him, and I think that his in terms of his leadership ability and the sort of the tenor that he sets throughout an organization when he's with competence. We've seen it before. He got sucked into the Browns black hole here, and I think he has I think he could do it again.

00:13:53
Speaker 3: I like that offense with that quarterback, the Kubik system, I like it.

00:13:57
Speaker 4: I think that's what it's all got to be about.

00:13:59
Speaker 1: And I've never bought that Lamar Jackson was going to be traded this offseason.

00:14:06
Speaker 4: I still don't.

00:14:07
Speaker 1: I mean, in theory, it's possible that they could. They could put some feelers out and see what they could get. I just don't think they're dumb like that. It's not the time to do it. If the time to do it would be, let's see Lamar Jackson with a new head coach, with a new system, with a fresh start, and if if after a year or two of that that and you might say, well the trade value will go down a little bit. It is so hard to find Lamar Jackson's In the three seasons previous to this last one, he finished first, first, and second in MVP. I mean, what are we what are we even talking about here? I just it's in the same way that I don't believe thought that they would maybe make a change, that they wouldn't be afraid to move on from Harbaugh now just because I think they make moves that make sense. It doesn't make sense to move on from Lamar Jackson, that you change the coach and you see if a new coach can help to improve whatever it is that you're not thrilled with Lamar Jackson.

00:15:07
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to say it wasn't either or I'm certainly like not trying to say that. But if you're going to decide between the two, right, the GM clearly made his decision and the ownership group clearly made their decision.

00:15:19
Speaker 1: Your your colleague Diana Rossini is reporting that a key sticking point in negotiations were Harbaugh not wanting to move on from Todd Monkin, the offensive coordinator. I think these after the fact reasonings come out that they might, you know, make someone look better, like that makes Harbaugh look better.

00:15:42
Speaker 4: Who knows.

00:15:42
Speaker 1: I have a feeling like if they're coming into that meeting, they kind of know what is the likely outcome of that meeting. But that was part of it too, and it's something to consider that I think Monkin did a pretty good job overall coordinator. He will be a really popular name in the coordinator interviews, and he is getting a couple of head coaching and I think he is getting a Tennessee interview interview.

00:16:07
Speaker 2: Yet this the fact that this came out though, I keep we just keep forgetting about like the Titans and the mix on all of this too, by the way, and there once again rearranged infrastructure.

00:16:17
Speaker 3: You know what I think though, I.

00:16:19
Speaker 2: Think that that coming out is a somehow and I can't I don't want to trace it. I don't know where it came out from or whatever. But like that's John Harbaugh saying Todd's coming with me, because if he's not willing to move on from him, that's loyalty. That's kind of saying, like Todd Monkin's coming with me wherever I go.

00:16:36
Speaker 4: And it's painful.

00:16:37
Speaker 1: This is a guy who, like I said, had an incredible amount of power in that building and amassed it and maybe well did that that power? It happens anyone that's in a place that that long, you know, is entrenched. He was like an institution. He's literally been the head coach of the Ravens almost the entire time I've covered the NFL and way more than half of the organization existing, and so yeah, I think it hurts your pride when when you get let go essentially and you want to make it look as good as you can. Afterwards, that Mike Preston article to me was I don't know if it was a canary and the coal mine, But when I saw that the Mike Preston article that was really burying Lamar Jackson and had a little bit of they have to make a decision about Harbaugh too, but really positive as hey, they should trade Lamar Jackson. It did feel like the moment where you can't imagine these two guys, Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson coming back together. And I have a feeling we're gonna get reporting about, you know, how that relationship happened, and these things happen in sports, and you know what I'm not.

00:17:43
Speaker 4: I'm not worried about John Harbaugh. He's gonna land on to be fine. Just he'll be fine fine.

00:17:49
Speaker 1: I had thrown out the idea of Mike McDaniel to Baltimore because I would like to see that. There was a nagging part of me that was like I don't know if the Ravens would actually do that. Is that a Raven's type of move I don't know. I asked around, and I he might not be the type of guy I think they want to have a guy.

00:18:11
Speaker 4: I think he would be sick set up for success there.

00:18:13
Speaker 1: A lot of people would because I think it's a strong organization you have Lamar Jackson, But he might not fit the profile of the long term type of decision that you're talking about, a guy that they want there for the next ten to fifteen years. He might not be like what they look for in a Raven, and a guy like Stefan skierk jesse Minner might a little more.

00:18:31
Speaker 2: I would just say too on that point, because I obviously I respect that opinion a lot. But I think there are a lot of people in the league, there were at the time and they are there are still now who dramatically underestimate the stuff that Mike McDaniel is made of.

00:18:49
Speaker 1: Hey, now, I like that, and I agree, I agree, but they might be some of those people in the league that I think.

00:18:56
Speaker 3: That and no, I agree, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I agree, it.

00:18:59
Speaker 1: Is really funny. Funny is the wrong word, But to imagine the world where that that kick went through the uprights the other night, it's it is do you think Mike Tomlin would still be working for the Steelers if.

00:19:11
Speaker 2: That kick with Hey, we still have to kind of see what shakes out for Mike Tomlin after the end of the season too.

00:19:16
Speaker 4: I mean, like, how about Ravens coach Mike Tomlin.

00:19:20
Speaker 2: That's a joke of a thousand people just through their phones or their TVs or however they're listening and watching this. This is this is what we talked in our other show, our show that's going to seem very dated now because we recorded it previous to this.

00:19:33
Speaker 3: It's coming out Wednesday.

00:19:35
Speaker 4: Well, I will edit out any of the Raven's parts.

00:19:38
Speaker 3: Eric's got it, but it it really is like.

00:19:44
Speaker 2: This, like beautiful poetry often bittersweet that football is that it was on a special team's play. The last play of his coaching tenure, the last shot of John Harbaugh walking into the locker room that any person has of his coaching tenure is him putting his arm around a distraught Tyler Loop and showing in that moment, you know the stuff he's made of.

00:20:11
Speaker 1: And I'm not wholly convinced that Harbaugh is gonna be a great hire. I think two things can be true. I think he can be a good idea for a team like the Raiders or the Dolphins that.

00:20:27
Speaker 3: The concept of John Yeah, No, I think it's I think.

00:20:29
Speaker 4: He's a good higher.

00:20:30
Speaker 1: I think it's okay to point out that he's sixty three years old, that he is a different sort of coach where he's not bringing his offense his defense. So it's really about the kind of building that he can create, not just culture, but literally the highers, the coordinators, everyone that's going to join him. And when you've been in the league a long time, like the people that you know the best are the people that have been in the league a long time, and sometimes that works. And I think he can bring a lot of stability. But when he came to the Raiders, look, he was a special team scored. I mean to the Ravens, he was a special teams.

00:21:06
Speaker 3: Coordinators casting Where you want him to go?

00:21:08
Speaker 4: Next? Where would I want him to go?

00:21:10
Speaker 3: Have a slip? You said the Raiders? The Raiders could work continue?

00:21:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, he you know, he gets to the conference championship game his first year, then division Division Conference championship, wins the Super Bowl. I mean, that is an insane run. And I think he had a great example of what more owners should consider, which is not taking offensive defensive coordinators. He had a great feel of the league at that time as a whole, as a special teams coordinator and who to higher who and had and he pulled all the right strings.

00:21:41
Speaker 4: He was kind of the perfect CEO coach. Can you do that again? I would just say it's going to be harder to do it a second time.

00:21:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, it's going to be fun, though it is, it.

00:21:52
Speaker 1: Is gonna be fun. I think I think we've said enough. And yeah, I don't think the Mike Tomlin thing is over necessarily either. If if he if he got blown out by the Texans, it's gonna feel like more of the same. And based on all the reporting, it sounds like he might be the one that doesn't want to enter that final year of his contract.

00:22:09
Speaker 4: So we might you know more in this space. But thank you for not leaving the building too quickly.

00:22:14
Speaker 3: I ran back.

00:22:14
Speaker 2: I was walking out and I saw it, and I texted you in all caps first, and then I started running back. I ran into one of our great producers Quab and Quobs was stopped still in the hallway looking at his phone, and I was like, we're probably gonna do a show.

00:22:28
Speaker 4: Let's go.

00:22:29
Speaker 3: We like Aaron Sorkin, walked and talked all the way back.

00:22:32
Speaker 4: I love it.

00:22:33
Speaker 1: And yeah, as I wasn't leaving or anything, but as I got your text to get a call from another producer, Jason Kleman, it's like, don't leave.

00:22:41
Speaker 4: We got to get this in the book. So we appreciate everyone for checking us out. Like I said, we will be back.

00:22:48
Speaker 1: On Wednesday, and it usually is a Tuesday show, but it's a special one. We're going to be reading all those holiday cards that we got and we're gonna be giving out all the awards. A little bit of news, including that the Kingsbury Fiery got some takes on that we will see that

00:23:09
Speaker 2: M hm