Top Model’s Toccara EXCLUSIVE

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Speaker 1: Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King. I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your favorite shows from the Real Housewives in Atlanta, New Jersey and my own creation, The Love and Marriage Franchise and Bell Collective. Every episode, we recap reality television from the Real Housewives Franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset, in addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or scripted as well.

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Speaker 2: Rain drops.

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Speaker 3: On today's episode of Reality with the King, I am reunited with one of my bestdies, our laugh inter We broke the Internet and fuck the introduction.

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Speaker 4: Yes, you are skinny.

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Speaker 2: Look at yob.

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Speaker 4: You might to stand down, you might have show it off. Yeah, but what you're doing I'm eating ring.

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Speaker 3: That the simping, what it's like, the g l P one drug and something bit what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: No, I promise you what you promise?

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Speaker 4: I want to know tell us.

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Speaker 2: I promise you.

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Speaker 4: I E clean.

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Speaker 2: But you know that's about me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah you do.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna work out fanatic, I'm begging. I don't drink, I don't smoke.

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Speaker 4: Right, you look damn fucking tastic. I mean, look who's talking.

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Speaker 3: Thank you baby, you look good. That wig is everything, Thank you everything.

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Speaker 5: She's a classic, she's ventage China. Yes, it's all the necklace. You know, I wear my ship.

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Speaker 4: You know? Is that? You know? Because it's classic? You see?

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Speaker 5: Yes, how I said restorational because you didn't even help me out restoration.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't even thinking at the time. But what's what's so.

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Speaker 3: Funny out our friendship is the fact that our interview was that last year.

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Speaker 4: I think it was last year.

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Speaker 3: I think it was last year broke the internet. People were saying, Carlos is your best interview?

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Speaker 4: Oh? We were.

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Speaker 2: We were just talking.

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Speaker 5: We were we were just chip chatting everything. But I was thinking when I came over here, I was like, what what?

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Speaker 4: Why was I even on?

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Speaker 3: Carlos?

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Speaker 4: He set me up?

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Speaker 5: God, No, you didn't send me up.

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Speaker 2: Did you hear from some people after our interview?

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Speaker 4: Don't have me so much?

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Speaker 5: It was so fantastic and it went everywhere. The interview went everywhere. A lot of people picked it up.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people pick up their phone and call you bag.

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Speaker 4: Everything was good. I enjoyed being on the show.

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Speaker 2: Carlos, did anybody text you?

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Speaker 3: You know what I was about?

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Speaker 4: To say, yeah, because your muscles.

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Speaker 5: Were like popping, Like you still got a nice shape, but you don't have.

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Speaker 4: That like do you miss that?

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Speaker 2: Amanda?

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Speaker 4: Wow?

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Speaker 3: Hey, all right, okay, well look I'm we're laughing.

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Speaker 2: So rain drops obviously listened.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot going on in the world right now, but the America's Next Top Model documentary has completely broken the internet. You are one of the few who have transcended from that franchise into creating your own brand and your own celebrity.

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Speaker 2: I would I would.

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Speaker 3: Say you Eva, Yaga, Da Costa, Winnie Harlow, you know.

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Speaker 4: Girls, you know the girl you know, I feel like you.

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Speaker 3: I feel like you four especially have definitely taken that momentum and rent with them. But what is so fascinating is with you. You didn't even win.

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Speaker 4: No, I didn't even win.

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Speaker 2: Were you even Top five?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 5: You were I was seven? Yeah, I was seven. I made it halfway through. I made it halfway through. And also I didn't even get selected. What do you mean, Oh, I think we talked about it before, Like they didn't even pick me to be on the show in the beginning. Right, had to go and reaudition because when I auditioned the first time I didn't get selected, and I was like, oh, somebody made a mistake.

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Speaker 4: What's going on here? Like I need to see who's in charge, right, So.

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Speaker 5: I think that is the unique thing about me that they didn't pick me originally.

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Speaker 4: So I kind of bummed guard my way up on in there.

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Speaker 5: And then I didn't win the show. I only made it halfway through. But I was the fan favor because back then this is when you called in, everybody was calling us. I was fan favored. And even though I'm not the winner, I'm a winner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you are.

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Speaker 4: You are.

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Speaker 3: Listen, everybody loves the Kara you go by one name. You're the only to car that we know. But what I want to talk to you about, and we'll get to the particulars of the documentary. One of the biggest things that came out of it was each woman that they featured talked about their experience. So before I get into the details and get your thoughts on it, I do want to just ask you, like, what was your experience being on Top Model?

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Speaker 4: My experience being on the Top Model.

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Speaker 5: Ooh, I was twenty nineteen, twenty years old.

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Speaker 4: I loved Tyra.

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Speaker 5: I had always wanted to be a model. I had started modeling when I was fourteen years old. I was going to the agencies fifteen, sixteen, seventeen eighteen, so I was already in that world. And then the only black models that we knew were Tira, Naomi Aman, Beverly, you know, And it was very hard. I didn't even know that plus size even existed, right there was.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't.

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Speaker 5: I couldn't name you a plus size model. I couldn't even I didn't even know the term. I don't even even know who used the term. So seeing Tire or seeing she's doing the reality show, knowing me I've already been modeled, I'm like, this is what I need. And I was already going to New York. I was like, oh yeah, and I want to be on TV. I got a great personality, bring it on. That's why I came in.

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Speaker 4: I was like, I'm here. I'm here. I'm big, black, beautiful and loving it right hundred in a buck? What right? So?

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Speaker 5: I mean for me and I come from Dayton, Ohio, Right, I come from the projects, I come from the hood.

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Speaker 4: I come from poverty. Right, So.

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Speaker 5: I've already experienced a lot. I've already seen a lot. I've already dealt with a lot. I was e mascipated when I was sixteen fifteen, So for me, it was like I wanted to do what we gotta do? You want me to cut my hair? You want me to what do you want me to do? You wanna shave my head ball? I tell him, like you shave my head ball. I'm still gonna walk around here like what you want me to do? Because I'm trying to make it out. I'm you know, I'm confident, but I will say that it was a controlled environment, right, So we were in a controlled environment. We were micd up all the time, and and looking back as a mature, grown woman, basically where we were like rats in the mice trap, you know what I'm saying, Like we were controlled on which way we could go or not go, Like, yeah, we had a decision to go right and left, but if you in a certain way, there might be a roadblock.

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Speaker 4: You might have to turn around and go back the other way.

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Speaker 3: You know what do you mean by that in terms of like if you were you controlled and felt like you were a mouse and a lab experiment is because you obviously, well one.

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Speaker 5: Insight one from like remembering an experience when I was doing it during that time. It's like in the beginning of Top Model, the like like the first or Steven episode, I think you see where they was like, well Eva and everyone has said something about Eva, and they did a clip and you see all these girls go say her name, Poper name out there. You didn't see me say that, but the producers backstage, they were trying to get you to say, like, well, what.

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Speaker 4: Do you think about Eva? What about Eva?

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Speaker 5: Like you know, they would, you know, get you, you know, get you to say things, but it was up to you to say it right.

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Speaker 4: You still had to say it.

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Speaker 5: But they were very that was their job too, as we know now, so right, so being in that experience back then we didn't know, but that was one of the experiences where but looking back at it as a grown woman like, oh yeah, that was a definitely control environment. Like when they were not having clothes in my size, they could definitely get closed in my size.

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Speaker 4: I get dressed every day.

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Speaker 5: I said it on the show, like I wanted to first the ball slap that bitch who pinched me, and I wanted to.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to, you know, but it's like, oh on TV and.

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Speaker 3: Our fairness, you did you did not want to lose the competition competition? Yeah, and and defend yourself the same way that Kenya was being.

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Speaker 4: And moaned on and all those things. Yeah, correct, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, could you didn't feel comfortable speaking out.

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 5: Well, no, because you want to win and you're right, did it? You're in a competition and it and like I said, it's control environment and looking back on it, right, like they I got eliminated because they said I didn't have any personality and.

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Speaker 2: What what's so interesting about the day you got for real exhibit as real?

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Speaker 3: No? Yeah, and I remember the pickure they chose of you with your with the hat on and stuff, the back list photo and you're looking like this.

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Speaker 4: But well that's another thing too. I always felt that.

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Speaker 5: That they don't think they always chose the best photos, Like I watched the DIG documentary and everything, but still I'm like, I know those couldn't have been the best photos, but it was admitted in the documentary like later on, but I'm in the beginning of I'm season cycle three.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I want to go back to the EVA thing because I remember watching the EVA season and Tyra and the panel did say we're hearing pretty much you're.

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Speaker 2: Bitch, and like you said, they flashed back to that.

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Speaker 3: In hindsight, do you think that the producers were setting even Eva up to be the villain of that season since they didn't ask you guys talk to us about Eva talks to us by Eva was even really being a bitch behind the scenes or was it or exaggerated?

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Speaker 5: Hmm, I'm gonna say it was fifty to fifty because Eva does. She's a scorpio, she's feisty, she got her personality, she's confident. You see how she walked up in that room like she was given very much. Eva the diva, but even it was a sweetheart to me. Eva was a sweetheart to me. Eva said, my bed with me, helped me stitch up my dress. Eva shared with me, talk to me about her best friend and her mother like me. And Eva was very personable from the very beginning, That's what I'm saying. So they couldn't get me to say anything, but I couldn't, but I was. I did witness them trying to, you know, make conversations, but us like, that's that's not my story, right, And we heard the remarks even said about the girl who had to eat in disorder and things like that.

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Speaker 4: So I'm gonna to say.

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Speaker 3: It was fifty to fifty when you when you look at your experience during cycle three, were you ever put in a situation that made you feel uncomfortable?

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Speaker 5: I don't even know if I had set boundaries for that, So my answer is no. But I think that's as a young girl just once again willing to be and do what it is I think it takes to be on top. Nah nah nah nah nah.

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Speaker 4: Now let me so much. You're so serious.

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Speaker 5: Okay, go ahead, mister journalist, ahead, let me, but I'm serious. Yeah, but no, I don't think that I did like set those type the boundaries like and I mean and of course like we're grown now, so I've been behind the scenes, worked with production. I know how production works now, right, So that wasn't a thing for me. So looking at it from that lens, and it's hard for me not to have that LANs because you can't you only know what you know, right, I can't take away the experiences that I've gained, right, So I didn't know that then, but the things that I know now, I can see how the game was being played.

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Speaker 3: Right, Hence, obviously, when they couldn't find clothes in your side, did you I want to go back to that moment because you were the first plus size contestant on Top Model, So did you feel that in that moment, like, obviously, I'm confident, I'm Takara, and these other girls obviously look.

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Speaker 2: Different than me, but I don't care. I'm me. I'm confident.

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Speaker 3: Did you feel like when that woman poked you, in addition to them not finding clothes, they had to get a reaction out of you because you weren't giving them anything because you're not jealous of anybody, you don't care about. You don't want to be skinny. So in hindsight, did you feel like y'all really pushed me to the limits because y'all needed to get a reaction out of me?

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Speaker 5: You know, I never thought about it like that, but obviously yes, because every set that we went on, every time we did a photo shoot, it was like I was anticipating to see what they were going to pull out for me, And this seemed like I was always the last person that they were going to bring out wardrobe for, so everyone's clothes were already up and on the rag and it's like, are you going to even bring my clothes out?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 5: And then everyone had options and this was basically like you're wearing this, like when we did the challenge at Lapearola.

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Speaker 4: I'm so glad my.

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Speaker 5: Memory is working for me. Thank your memory, because i'd be forgetting everything.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I remember with that Laparola and like, I can't fit Lapearola right, and my breasts you see these titties, right, it's a big, beautiful bress that.

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Speaker 4: I make bras for myself now.

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Speaker 5: But we did Lapearola, right, I can't fit their their undergarments, so I had to wear a robe. And I'm like, well, I mean the challenge was dumbe because we had to like be like manne cains. I didn't really understand what was going on, but to the point of that.

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Speaker 4: I didn't have options.

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Speaker 5: You gonna wear this robe, and if it's a medium or smaller wetherside, you're gonna we won't even have your right size rope. This is what you're gonna wear and take these thongs or pennies or whatever. Like there was no fault, there was, you know, but I didn't see it. I mean, I've seen it, but it I was still happy to be there, and I did have the confidence that I'm the big girl in the room. Y'all about to get rid of me no time soon. I know, I got least happy y'll beat you know what I mean, Like I always knew that, Like I at least.

00:15:59
Speaker 4: Got most of y'all. Bet y'all, y'all. It's not even a competition.

00:16:03
Speaker 3: Yet, period, Right, I'm not going anywhere, yeah, yeah, no. But the thing about as I was watching the documentary, obviously Tara created the show.

00:16:18
Speaker 2: She owns twenty five percent of it.

00:16:22
Speaker 3: So I as a journalist, hey, Portia, I did my research.

00:16:27
Speaker 2: Tara admitted to Howard.

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Speaker 4: Stern Howard Stern that she well, he right, he brought it up.

00:16:33
Speaker 2: He brought it up. He said, how much did you own?

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Speaker 3: She won't saying, and he said, you owned about twenty five percent, and.

00:16:38
Speaker 2: She said, you know, you know, I'm not confirming it, though.

00:16:42
Speaker 3: So what what was your experience like with Tara Banks during cycle three?

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Speaker 5: My experience, I mean, even to this day, I still remember the first time that I've seen her when she came out, like I was so enthralled, like oh wow, like she did not look real. You know, I've bangrowed out. I was excited and during the show. I've always held her in that regard and she always took up for me. Remember when Janni's was like, well then she needs to lose one hundred pounds, She's like, she'll be thirty pounds.

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Speaker 4: She's like, you know, So it's like Tyra stood up for me.

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Speaker 5: And but she always was the judge, so it wasn't never well she did she said, she came into the room and she listened to our stories.

00:17:30
Speaker 4: You know. It is the episode where I cried and I'm crying on her lap.

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Speaker 5: I mean, my experience with Tyra was was totally different because I feel in those moments she was being personable and that she did care. And a lot of a lot of my story wasn't revealed far as like what my parents and stuff was going through, you know, so like I don't know if it just wasn't a big enough story, but like a lot of my personal things weren't.

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Speaker 4: Weren't you in a bad way towards me? You know?

00:18:06
Speaker 5: But on the show, on season three, Tyre was the judge. She was the main girl, and I've all you know, I always just was fangirl and I never really looked at her in a bad light during the season, or never.

00:18:22
Speaker 4: Until this documentary. But I don't even mean it like that.

00:18:25
Speaker 2: Like yeah no, But the thing is this when you.

00:18:32
Speaker 3: One thing I know about you and and and I said this for my Monday night live show. One thing that I can see as a producer too, is I thought it was on purpose that the directors did not contact you.

00:18:51
Speaker 2: Eva.

00:18:54
Speaker 4: When I first seen I said they did a documentary, I.

00:18:56
Speaker 5: Said, oh, okay, I just knew even it was gonna be on it because I knew. I wasn't knowing as I'm like, okay, let me see. And then I've seen the trailer and I didn't see Eva.

00:19:04
Speaker 4: Then I didn't see ya Yah. I'm like, okay, Yah, y'all is going to be on.

00:19:07
Speaker 5: It, right, So no, I'm not on it me even in Yah Yeah, I said, oh okay, well I'm in good company.

00:19:14
Speaker 2: Why do you think they on perfect because that's a choice.

00:19:18
Speaker 4: Oh no, it's definitely a choice.

00:19:20
Speaker 3: Do you think the reason why the directors then I contact Eva Tokara, Yah y'all Nacosta three successful black women whose career ballooned because of the show, and from my knowledge, never publicly disparaged Tyra. Do you think the reason they didn't contact you is because I feel like.

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Speaker 5: They didn't contact me because I didn't have a negative thing to say so because when I watched the documentary, it's like, oh, or when I seen the clips or the trailers and stuff, it was just like, Oh, that's not my story because they can't get that out of me. Once again, the producers they not going to be able to get that out of me. I can't give you. I only can give you the truth. I can only give you the truth.

00:20:08
Speaker 3: This is reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King. Let's get back into the show. And that's what I want our conversation to be. Because the thing is this. I looked at the documentary. I am the biggest fan of Top Model. I watch all the cycles, and who I saw Tabary Banks be on that show was not what she was being talked about on the documentary, and it was.

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Speaker 2: Hard for even me to watch.

00:20:39
Speaker 3: But what I will say, and we'll get to the rest later, but what I wanted to say when it comes to you girls, you even ya ya not being contacted. It felt like they definitely wanted this to be nothing but negative. And because I am a journalist, one thing I know is you got to get both sides.

00:21:01
Speaker 2: It has to be a balanced story.

00:21:04
Speaker 3: Now, look, Tyra definitely didn't help herself out with the trench coat. Hey, you give a little bit of trick.

00:21:15
Speaker 4: You're not the mother.

00:21:18
Speaker 2: So we definitely didn't see that.

00:21:22
Speaker 3: But what I will say is it was a choice that they didn't contact people who had a pleasant experience. But when you watched a documentary, was it hard for you to see that Tyra because is that the Tyra that you know?

00:21:42
Speaker 5: That was a good question. I was heartbroken. I was heartbroken. Let me ask you a question. Was that the Tyra?

00:21:58
Speaker 4: What was your question? Is that the tire I know? Or was that this? Wait? Was your question?

00:22:02
Speaker 3: Was it hard for you to watch that Tyra during the documentary because that's not the Tyra that you know?

00:22:12
Speaker 4: Well?

00:22:12
Speaker 5: Yeah, I thought when I watched the documentary and I've seen how Tira was an interview, how she connected herself in the interview, I do feel that it was very much performative, right, And I do feel like I don't think it was very genuine. I don't think that it was very very genuine. And I think I think I think she didn't show vulnerability, and I didn't think and I didn't think she showed empathy. And I think if she would have did that, then we would have forgiven her, you know, because we all understand the climate back then. We all under stand the business now, right, so we all understood what the culture was.

00:23:05
Speaker 4: We get that.

00:23:07
Speaker 5: And if she would have just said that, you know, or just admitted with honesty was just vulnerability, we would have been like, oh girl, we get it, we understand right, you know, Like I don't think they would have been nailing her to the stake like they are. But then I think it's hard too because I think now like I'm one of the old people, because it's like when I talk about the show, it's like back in my day, right, I'm forty four, I'd be forty four, I'm forty three.

00:23:37
Speaker 4: I'd be forty four in March.

00:23:38
Speaker 5: At thirteenth, nineteen eighty two because wikipedm messed up my stuff.

00:23:42
Speaker 4: So let's just get that, right, Let's get the real age on the out there right March the thirteenth.

00:23:49
Speaker 5: But I think the documentary did a good job. Like when I watched it from the beginning, it was like, this is what happens, right when you go out to a competition. This is and this is interesting to see what happens to all the hundreds of thousand girls who came out to audition for a show that there was only going to be one winner, Like.

00:24:10
Speaker 4: We all have to take in that factor, you know.

00:24:13
Speaker 5: Some girls dropped out of school, some girls left their jobs, Like these are life changing choices that you have to that you were conscious of, and you know there's only one spot, you know. So it brought to light right unveiled what really happens in the real world. There are plenty of girls who then came out and tried to make it in this modeling world. And the mardeling world is very tough and it's very limited, it's very short lived, you know. So watching it, I was like wow, because these are the stories that I want to see of, like what happens when you do go back home and you don't have you know, what you thought you were going to get and it you know, the letdown, And the thing is it happened to me too, right when I got eliminated. People from Top Model didn't reach out to me.

00:25:07
Speaker 4: They didn't.

00:25:09
Speaker 5: Follow up with me. Tyra did give me her number. She did ever ever had any questions and stuff, I can call. But it wasn't like I got off the show and they Top Model created opportunities where oh, you can go to this agency or you know, gathered us and made us like a America's Next Top Model sorority or association a handbook. Right like we all were let go. We got eliminated, and we all were let go. That's my story too. But my goal was when I was on the show, my goal was, Oh, just get me on TV.

00:25:44
Speaker 4: Somebody just need to see me. I just need to get me.

00:25:46
Speaker 5: Here first, my dad was My first goal was let me get on TV. Like I said earlier, Oh I audition, they didn't pick me. Oh I was in the wrong room. The right person didn't see me, you know, like no, like, oh no, let me get on and because of the show I did see. I think it was like a Twitter or ex or I don't know, some social media posts where it's like I remember when a car got eliminated. My office was calling her phone calling her from Astrey Stewart because we wanted to give her a deal with Ashley Stewart.

00:26:15
Speaker 4: And it's so true. I remember them calling me.

00:26:17
Speaker 5: They send a car, black car to my house, and I thought that this is what happens to all the girls.

00:26:22
Speaker 4: I didn't even really realize that I was special like that, you know what I mean.

00:26:28
Speaker 5: But it is true, like they blew me up, shout out to Ashley Stewart. They blew me down there and it was fun. I didn't even have an agent. I didn't have nothing. That's why I didn't know, you know, and different people just saw after me once again because I was on TV. People saw me and they came for me. But Top Model gave me that platform. They didn't necessary help me after the show, but then Tyrod did. Once I would start doing Ashy Stewart, start doing other things, and then you know, I worked with BT. So now I'm in the circle. And so now I'm running into Tyra or I moved to LA and so Tyra has called me to work on her model land to you know, do a photo shoot to be part of her talk show. You know, I was in Italian Vogue. I got fourteen pages that wasn't because of Tyra that was because of Tracy Christian. Thank you, Yeah, on and on.

00:27:27
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:27:28
Speaker 3: The thing is this, the reason why I love this conversation is because two things can be true.

00:27:34
Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying. I'm a fencer. I'm like this two things.

00:27:36
Speaker 2: No no, no, no no, no, You're not a fencer. It's your reality. This is the thing.

00:27:41
Speaker 3: The reason why I had to really say, like, look, guys, they didn't contact a kara Eva and from my understanding, Yaga da Costa because publicly they've never said anything disparaging about Tyra. And listen, I'm not here to defend Tyra because Tyra, in my opinion, did a his poor job defending herself.

00:28:01
Speaker 2: So I'm not here to do that.

00:28:03
Speaker 3: But what I am here is to offer that Look, everybody had a different experience, and what I feel like, listen, you and our friends in real life, so you never, even our private conversations, ever say anything bad about your experience of Tomado or Retira. And the thing is, I think this what I'm hearing is I was a woman who was going to get it by any means necessary, in the sense of put me on and I'll take care of the rest, because I'll let my ambition take me and open up doors, because you really wanted this same thing with Eva Eva one. But there's listen, there's been twenty four other winners. Let's have a real conversation, and Eva is the most. I don't think people understand how Eva is relevant and that show her seas y'all season on two thousand and five something like that. So it is about the fact that everybody experience is different. And yes, when it comes to what they didn't help me, I didn't look at that and say it's not the producer's job.

00:29:14
Speaker 4: And so I said, did she owe us that? Did she promise us that? No, they didn't.

00:29:18
Speaker 5: Always they didn't say they were going to, Okay, you're going to show it after the show, We're gonna take care of you, We're gonna help you out, or you know, there was no sideals. There was no we didn't get paid. You know, nothing of those things happened. But I will say this too watching the documentary, because I wasn't unaware of a lot of these things too, because honestly, after my season, I was popping.

00:29:37
Speaker 4: I really didn't watch the show.

00:29:39
Speaker 5: I didn't go back for the All Star and tyre called me for that too, and I turned it down.

00:29:44
Speaker 4: She called me.

00:29:44
Speaker 2: Again, like why did you turn it down?

00:29:47
Speaker 4: Because I went' get paid?

00:29:48
Speaker 5: They say he can't pay you, And it was like, I'm working, I live in LA, I got bills. It's like it's the world world. I'm getting offers. I did Celebrity Fit Club, you know. And then I guess I felt a little bad in hindsight because it's like, damn, I guess I should have did didn't.

00:30:00
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know.

00:30:01
Speaker 5: I do feel a little bad that I didn't do it because I did get my start, But I was like.

00:30:04
Speaker 4: What what is it going to do for me that I'm not doing like I'm doing it.

00:30:09
Speaker 2: You're not getting paid.

00:30:12
Speaker 4: For everything? Yeah, but I'm there, I'm getting nothing. I'm not getting nothing. That's not do you think that's messed up?

00:30:21
Speaker 3: But I'm like, okay, I could see if you turned it down and you felt like you should have got more money, Like you give.

00:30:29
Speaker 4: Me something, I got bills to pay. You want me to like not that, and.

00:30:33
Speaker 3: Listen, you weren't making offers in other places, I mean getting offers in other places.

00:30:39
Speaker 2: So I don't think you should feel bad about that.

00:30:41
Speaker 4: Thank you, But what I was saying, thank you was that.

00:30:46
Speaker 5: Was that when I watched the show right and I see the other people's stories that I wasn't aware of or knew about, it does make me feel like I don't want to be I don't want to be friends with someone who is nice to me but not not nice to everyone else. Or I don't want to be in a relationship with a man who's good to me, but it's treating a waiter some kind of where, you know, treating a valet some kind of way.

00:31:14
Speaker 4: You know.

00:31:15
Speaker 5: So it's like that fence because like just because they're nice to you doesn't make it right, you know, how they treat other people.

00:31:22
Speaker 4: That's like a character trait, you know.

00:31:24
Speaker 5: So then it does my heart does go out to the jays, you know, the contestants. You know, it's like, once again, the truth is the truth. That wasn't right, you know what's it right?

00:31:39
Speaker 4: When you.

00:31:42
Speaker 2: Heard Shandy story about.

00:31:46
Speaker 3: Being said, and I'm saying sad because it's YouTube and they have their they have regulations, but she mentioned being said when she was drinking and she said, the producer said, we're gonna buite the guys over to the house, and they filmed her having sex. She said she was not even in her right state of mind and she was pretty much assaulted. When you hear her story about what happened, and they filmed her contacting her boyfriend and you know, she's crying and he's crying. And even when they asked Tyra like can talk about Shandy's story and she's like, I think, what were your thoughts about.

00:32:34
Speaker 4: All of that?

00:32:38
Speaker 5: That's what I mean about the vulnerability and the empathy. And I guess also like watching everything that you know, everything is online so you can see everything. And it's like, Tyra, you did know you had her on a talk show, you talked about that, you talked about editing, you talked about the family. You know, you knew she didn't want to see it, and it's like you just didn't validate her, and then to do the documentary instill not But even when is it, mister J, even when mister J and the phone call, like you know and missus Jay, everybody, I don't like you said she didn't do a good job at defending herself.

00:33:21
Speaker 4: She she.

00:33:23
Speaker 5: She didn't do a good job at defending herself. I don't know how I can defend somebody.

00:33:27
Speaker 4: Who didn't do a good job at definished stuff.

00:33:29
Speaker 5: And I'm not trying to defend her, right, I'm not trying to defend her. She showed up, she did the interview. You know, I'm just speaking on my experience, and I can't jump ship or change my experience. But I can recognize what happened, and I can't see, you know, I can see clearly like everybody else can see that that wasn't right, you know, and.

00:33:52
Speaker 4: Right, that wasn't right.

00:33:53
Speaker 5: A lot of things that happened. And once again, if everyone got the same story, it gotta be some truth in it. And even before I got on TV or Hollywood, people used to talk about tier too, you know, godsaid that she was.

00:34:05
Speaker 4: Cheap or not nice to people at restaurants or whatever. These are just rumors.

00:34:09
Speaker 5: So I don't mean to keep spreading rumors, but just to add to the narrative that we were talking about, you know, she has have had a reputation of maybe not being such the nicest person. And then to see the contestants, I mean, I was there with Tiffany was on the show too, you know, because but you know, with the contestants, with the judges, it's just not nice and it's heartbreaking.

00:34:30
Speaker 4: It's heartbreaking.

00:34:33
Speaker 2: Were you shocked when you heard that Miss J who at the time of filming and film last year, he suffered.

00:34:42
Speaker 4: A stroke, had a stroke. He taught her how to walk. You know, they've been friends and she was a teenager.

00:34:48
Speaker 5: Both of them, mister J and missus J, been friends with them since they were teenagers. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It was just it was very heartfelt. And then like missus J is my girl. She was like this, Yeah, I love her too. And she felt like the most closest to home on the show. You know, she was like my black girlfriend. You know, she was like she felt the closest to home on the show that we could touch and talk to and interact with. So yeah, and for her to try and even just everybody, I'm just shocked, Like I I'm shocked, and I really can't believe she I don't know, I don't you know what I think?

00:35:33
Speaker 4: So right, So this is my thing too for Tyra right look at you right now.

00:35:41
Speaker 5: So she's the producer too, so she's coming from both ends of it. She's trying to be professional and give the correct answers.

00:35:50
Speaker 4: Or not put. I don't know what she was trying to do, but.

00:35:53
Speaker 5: She had a guard up, right, so she was very guarded and she wanted to give off. I don't know what she thought she was even enough she missed the mark, but I don't think that that was her intentions, right. She felt like she showed up. She felt like she was you know, I don't know what she felt like. I'm going to tell you, Okay, tell me.

00:36:16
Speaker 3: I don't know tyber Banks, right, I saw a woman who chose she just like how they how they did not contact y'all.

00:36:27
Speaker 2: They did contact her and she could have.

00:36:29
Speaker 5: Said no, And I feel like they gave her a test of her taste of her own medicine, because like how we did reality and they edited too, and they showed it like I don't know how the editing process was too, but it was like the way they edited too could have well did play a big part in it because we don't know the funt well.

00:36:46
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a fair assessment, and that's why I have to say, listen, I'm gonna give I'm gonna I want to give my audience.

00:36:52
Speaker 2: The entire scope. What I will say is she chose.

00:36:55
Speaker 4: To do it.

00:36:57
Speaker 2: This woman who I adored.

00:37:01
Speaker 3: Growing up watching her be a black woman creating a show where she had ownership that is rare in this business. And for it to be a franchise in other countries, that's insane.

00:37:12
Speaker 5: And that's what I think too, because it's like, what do you do when you have that much power and you have that much control?

00:37:18
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

00:37:19
Speaker 5: Because we sit here and we can get criticize, or we can come up with what I would do, what I wouldn't do.

00:37:23
Speaker 4: But she did it right, and she had all this power, all this fame, and.

00:37:29
Speaker 5: I've I haven't had that kind of success, right, but the type I have been tempted by things right, And.

00:37:41
Speaker 3: You don't know, Well, my thing is this, I'm gonna tell you what I would have wished. I'm a producer, I produced. My first reality job was two thousand and eight. I tell my brain drops. I wasn't an EP, I wasn't an associate producer very much on the bottom of total poll. I can look at that show and be like, oh, damn, we did shoot Kim Zosiak having a rit solo cup driving her car. Presumably it could be alcohol in it. We would never do that today. But I can look, I can look with fresh eyes eighteen years later it Oh, that wasn't great for us to shoot.

00:38:19
Speaker 2: But so it's.

00:38:21
Speaker 3: Acknowledging that, look at that time, some things not everything that happened, but there are some things you could have said, like, uh, I think the thing with Tyra was more so when I say this, I'm not trying to be a mean sold me. I think she's a narcissist. I think she is somebody you can't tell.

00:38:40
Speaker 2: Her what to do.

00:38:42
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I agree that she is the bad guy. You know that she don't mind being the bad guy, right, and that like whether you're famous or infamous, you know, it's like someone gotta be evil carel you know.

00:38:58
Speaker 2: Like she no, no, no. The thing with Tyra for me was you chose to do it because your ego.

00:39:07
Speaker 3: You could not have Netflix, the biggest streaming platform, talk about a show you created, you and you're not a part of it. And I think her ego got the best of her. And to me, yes, you can make mistakes in your professional career.

00:39:23
Speaker 5: We all do.

00:39:23
Speaker 3: There's not one person breathing that can look back and say, oh, I would have done things differently. We're human and that's the beautiful thing about life is growth. However, the one thing that Tyra has that you can't make up, edit make mistakes about is your character.

00:39:43
Speaker 2: Till this day, this man.

00:39:47
Speaker 3: Taught you how to walk and that show was successful, Yes because of her, but baby, also because of him, mister Jay and Nijo.

00:40:00
Speaker 2: The fact that you can't even.

00:40:01
Speaker 3: Say, baby, here's a couple of thousand we ain't gotta speak, but here you go. Even the fact that mister Jay is somebody who y'all grew up in the game together. And yes he quit, but during filming you will only talk to him on camera and during breaks you would give him a cold shoulder. Until this day, when they brought up his name, you say I should call him. A year later he announced you haven't called him. That to me is character. And that's of all the things I was disappointed in the character of the woman. The fact that outside of you not acknowledging your role in the television production. And yes, she's right, bosses have bosses. She is one thousand percent right. She's one thousand percent right. When she had to defend herself against Les Moonvez where they almost fought she was right in that reguard, but acknowledge that, Hey, guys, I could have done things differently.

00:41:04
Speaker 4: Here I was.

00:41:06
Speaker 6: I was trying to teach the girls how the modeling industry was at a time, and guess what, I may have failed them, and I'm sorry we all have been like But to me, it was.

00:41:18
Speaker 3: Her character of how till this day, these men who made your show what it is too you can even fly to meet them in your trench coat, but you can fly to the green screen of a Netflix documentary.

00:41:37
Speaker 2: That to me is character. And I can't. I can't reconcile that. I can't.

00:41:44
Speaker 3: You can't fly to visit this man in the hospital, but you can fly to go to set and say.

00:41:52
Speaker 2: Cycle twenty five, we have so much in store for you. I don't want to see Cycle twenty five.

00:41:58
Speaker 3: Well, you created was so magnificent in the sense of it's in the pop culture history.

00:42:06
Speaker 2: Let it go, sist, let it go?

00:42:09
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:42:10
Speaker 2: Would you would? Would you want to?

00:42:12
Speaker 5: I mean I said this though earlier in the conversation, that that is character, right. You don't want someone I can't say, oh, well, my experience was nice, so she's not this person. Two things could be true. They are true. That's terrible. The please you haven't even known me as long as you've known these people. These are your friends, your real friends, right You're sleeping in their beds, going to their homes, You're having real conversations.

00:42:35
Speaker 4: He's still so respectful.

00:42:36
Speaker 5: It's I know things about her that I'm still not going to talk about, right, So, like a true friend, right So yeah, like no, that is character.

00:42:43
Speaker 4: I'm a grown woman.

00:42:44
Speaker 5: I would tell my child, I would tell my sister, like, you know, watch out for people, how watch how they treat other people. Watch believe people when they show you who they are, you know, like, and everyone's not making these stories up. It's a list. It was not just one or two people who have a story. I think the scale our weighs itself.

00:43:05
Speaker 3: Do you think it's unfair that Tyra is the only person giving them backlash? And do you think mister J Miss j Nigel, do you think they should also share in some of that backlash too?

00:43:20
Speaker 4: Yes? I think so.

00:43:25
Speaker 5: I think they should share in some of the backlash too, because they are the judges and you know, they were key king and going along or whatever, you know, Like, yeah, I think everyone should just admit to it.

00:43:38
Speaker 4: It's fine.

00:43:39
Speaker 5: I mean, you know it's twenty something, twenty plus years ago. Twenty plus years ago. We are not the same people.

00:43:47
Speaker 4: So yes, like missus J admitted it, Mister J admitted it.

00:43:52
Speaker 5: He said, you know, he Tyra and Janice was going at it, and so he would be a little more feisy with Janet, you know, so you know, to help.

00:44:00
Speaker 2: Tire out right, So you did say that.

00:44:02
Speaker 5: He did say that, Yes, they they're they're just there ca who I just to show, right, I did miss stick House on the Shade Room.

00:44:09
Speaker 4: I had judges.

00:44:10
Speaker 5: I'm the host, you know, like, yeah, we and Caho's we're friends, like the different layers, you know, So.

00:44:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, they should sharing some of that, and I think they are. That's what I say. They We're not giving it.

00:44:22
Speaker 5: They're not putting the fire on them, but I think if we did, they would, and I think they are slowly omitting. Like yeah, you know, I've heard missus Jay, mister J say like what I hear him say. I don't want to misquote them, but basically they are he has you know, like, did I make some bad choices that I did not do?

00:44:42
Speaker 4: Some things? You know, Yeah, it's not running from it.

00:44:47
Speaker 2: When it comes to the legacy of Top Model, do you.

00:44:51
Speaker 3: Does it sadden you a bit? Because one thing that Eva Togail King was it was like we were like these sorority sisters, like we were part of this club of top model girls. And she said the same thing you said. She said, I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes. It wasn't my experience. However, I can acknowledge what I've been shown and that that's messed up. Does it sad in you a bit that this show that, for all intents and purposes, we know you because of that show.

00:45:28
Speaker 2: We know Eva because of that show. Same with y'all, y'all. The list goes on and on.

00:45:33
Speaker 3: Is it sad that this show that made Jorn famous and gave y'all a big break is now being diminished based on this dark cloud that's not over it?

00:45:52
Speaker 4: Do I think it's being diminished?

00:45:54
Speaker 2: Like there's a negative stain?

00:45:58
Speaker 4: And now I never looked at it like that. But the truth is I was on cycle three.

00:46:09
Speaker 5: After certain cycles anyway, we already they had to staying a stigma to it. They said it, you know, in the documentary, it's like Oh, she's a top model girl. So girls thought that they were going to America's next Top Model and because they were on Top Model that doors were open, but doors were shut because they were on Top Model.

00:46:29
Speaker 4: No, that wasn't That's what I'm saying. But I was in season three.

00:46:31
Speaker 5: I was there before that started before I don't know when it began, but lucky for me that I was in the beginning before it had that type of stigma to it.

00:46:40
Speaker 3: Brandy another winner, that's the one who said that it opened up no doors for her, and there was this negative connotation that the modey industry felt that if you came from that show, we don't want from.

00:46:54
Speaker 5: All the girls, all the top model girls because they were looking at me. And so when they would come to me to Carra well you know, and they would tell me this. So I did hear this, like they don't want us because they don't want me because I was on Top Model, or I've been turned away because I was on Top Model. They yeah, this was then it was said verbally like that that there was a hard time because I was on the show. I've heard it from multiple girls in real time back then. So this that that part wasn't new to me.

00:47:28
Speaker 2: Danielle said that.

00:47:32
Speaker 5: When she and that broke my heart when I heard Danielle and she said that. Tyra said, yeah, there were doors that you rooms that you didn't come into because you know, I was on the fence with you, you know, or I didn't give you the stemp of approval or however way she phrased that, And that's very hurtful. And I felt like, Wow, why would you even say that? Like what was if you did that, that's terrible. And then too to admit it and say it years fifteen years later. That's so hurtful. That's just like another like job. I feel like when you say things out your mouth, you should ask yourself, isn't necessary?

00:48:09
Speaker 4: Is it kind?

00:48:10
Speaker 3: You know?

00:48:11
Speaker 4: I think, don't just let things. I thought that was I thought that was fucked up.

00:48:21
Speaker 3: No, it is, it is, it's it's it's it's I don't know. I what what what would you like for Tyra to do? If Tyra is watching right now, Sokara, what would.

00:48:37
Speaker 2: You say to her?

00:48:39
Speaker 4: I love you so much, Carlos King? If what would I like.

00:48:43
Speaker 2: Tyra to do or know or hear from you? Because in your defense.

00:48:50
Speaker 5: You.

00:48:51
Speaker 4: You know what I think, I do.

00:48:53
Speaker 5: This is what I think, and I've always thought this, and I believe I've always said this too. I do wish that Tyra, and I know it was not her responsibility, she don't owe it to us or anything, but I would have loved if she would have really made us into a sorority or a you know, just like we.

00:49:12
Speaker 4: I probably need to do it.

00:49:13
Speaker 5: I'm about to start a top Model association or something really because we all these beautiful girls, all these we could have had an agency. I don't know, just so much potential that was just left and no one came along to help or pick us up. Like I do wish that there was some after maths, some after care for us.

00:49:36
Speaker 4: I do wish that. I do wish that.

00:49:38
Speaker 5: And even when we're like other shows they would do things with their contestants, you know, I don't know, like Real World or it was like other shows that would take their contestants and maybe they made them do competitions.

00:49:49
Speaker 4: Or do you know, it was just different things.

00:49:52
Speaker 5: You know that different networks too, you know VH one, B Table, you know, bring people back and do reunion shows or you know, like just yeah, maybe.

00:50:02
Speaker 2: You're on the real world, then you could be.

00:50:04
Speaker 4: On the own exactly.

00:50:08
Speaker 1: You know.

00:50:08
Speaker 5: Now I kind of got traders and you you were on this show, you know, like where is ours? Why are we not doing the like yeah, I really wish that that we had opportunity to do that. That would have been awesome.

00:50:22
Speaker 2: Well, it was the last time you communicated or had any communication.

00:50:26
Speaker 5: The last time I talked to Tyr we were I was actually working with her on her model lamp. Well, I wasn't working with her, but she called me to do some merch what you call it. Yeah, so we did a photo shoot but it never got released. And that was back right before the pandemic happened. And then she switched up because I don't know if you remember the model lamp, remember model? And so after that, now she's doing ice cream. And that hurt my feelings too, because I did hear her say, hey, my legacy I wanted.

00:50:56
Speaker 4: You know, just like beauty is fading. You know.

00:50:58
Speaker 5: It was vanity, which is true, which is like, but I want my legacy to be ice cream.

00:51:03
Speaker 4: It's like you have you already? Yeah that hurt, No, that hurt No, no.

00:51:15
Speaker 2: No, I'm not laughing at that part. I'm just laughing at the fact that.

00:51:20
Speaker 3: You listen, I'm gonna give this black woman all the props in the world legendary supermodel.

00:51:29
Speaker 2: Legacy.

00:51:30
Speaker 3: Just I mean, I sometimes and y'all do to watch her runaway walks and mama had the I and the T inmy award winning talk show host. Yes, do you know what I'm saying? And to say that I want my legacy to be ice cream is wild. And that's the reason why.

00:51:55
Speaker 2: Listen. Everything happens for a reason.

00:51:58
Speaker 3: If I was Tabard Banks and I knew I wasn't going to give any rulnerability, I would not have as it would have been because the thing is this, if if and this is why you gotta have a good team around you and listen, maybe her team just say like, you are in no position based on what you're telling guys, even do that. I would have been like, let me see what y'all to say first, and I would have watched it and been like, okay, and maybe release a statement and that would have been it. But but but to you are a forever meme. People ticked how you you She's a forever meme. If if if I make this faith, you're not getting a promotion at work, right, I'm not.

00:52:44
Speaker 5: Apologizing, Yes, and this is That's what I'm saying.

00:52:47
Speaker 4: But she's intimate, So that's what I'm saying. Hated or love it?

00:52:50
Speaker 2: Right, She may like that.

00:52:51
Speaker 4: She might like that somebody got.

00:52:54
Speaker 5: To be the bad guy, and and usually those are the people who get the most attention. Anyway, she probably we probably we probably it probably would have just passed us by. If she would have just home, we would have for gave reel tyrant and I would have been it. We would it would have been going on. It wouldn't still be going on. She would have been there forever. Means I'm just saying, I'm just paying devil's advocate. I never thought about that this she made like this.

00:53:24
Speaker 4: I don't like this. I don't like it because some.

00:53:29
Speaker 2: All narcissists talk about me. Better good, I'm a topic of conversation, the.

00:53:35
Speaker 4: Topic of motherfucking conversation. Honey, talk about me. Okay, what you said about me? Pay me? Honey? We don't know, okay, So and giggles.

00:53:49
Speaker 2: Well, look what's next for you, Takara.

00:53:53
Speaker 5: Well, I'm relaunching. My brawl line is coming out in the fall. Yeah, so I have a braw line for naturally big breasted women. I'm wearing one today. It has no padding, it lifts, it's support, it separates, and it's and it's beautiful.

00:54:11
Speaker 4: It's sexy.

00:54:11
Speaker 5: It makes you feel sexy. You want it to be seen, because you know the history of girls with big breasts. We always wear some ugly brawl and we don't want to be seen. It's always the same color, it doesn't look cute, doesn't have the best support. Not here, Come get your brawl, Come on over here, hit me up.

00:54:30
Speaker 2: And you and are you still doing the sound bath?

00:54:32
Speaker 4: And I do the soundbath? Yes, I love, I love I do the sound baths. I do it all over the world. Right, I was in Marra Cash.

00:54:42
Speaker 5: I actually did a sound bath over there, Yes, thank you. And I do sound baths for corporate corporations, corporations, right. I just did one for the ward off Astoria. Yeah, okay, don't even play with me. But I do one for the community every thurs Sunday. I do one on a soundstage out by the airport. It is beautiful. I do it on a big, beautiful sound stage. And then I also do one over in Smyrna at like a yoga yoga studio. But I've been doing this for about since I've been in Atlanta, and I've been in Atlanta about four years, but I've been in the wellness field for about ten years now.

00:55:19
Speaker 4: I started working with Queena Fula.

00:55:23
Speaker 2: Oh wow, look at you.

00:55:27
Speaker 4: I'm just out here.

00:55:28
Speaker 2: Well, listen, you have made lemonade out of the lemons.

00:55:34
Speaker 4: You really have.

00:55:35
Speaker 2: And listen, we're friends in real life.

00:55:36
Speaker 3: But I'll say this publicly, and you know, I'm proud of you, thank you and everything that you're doing. And I will go and record saying this. Who she is on camera is exactly who she is behind the scenes.

00:55:48
Speaker 4: Thank you.

00:55:49
Speaker 3: Like we had an interview scheduled last week, Yes, but she has some family situation going on, and.

00:55:56
Speaker 2: This is my friends.

00:55:57
Speaker 3: I said, Okay, we'll reschedule it. She's sent me to prove that she wasn't. I'm like to car Us, you're not somebody. You have nothing to prove to me.

00:56:08
Speaker 2: But no, I want the world to know that fame has never changed you.

00:56:13
Speaker 3: You are still the homegirl from Ohio and that's why God continuously blesses you, because in real life you are a gem. And I'm so proud of you, that in this crazy industry, you have not allowed it to change you. And that and and and that should be celebrated. And I want us to celebrate that more. How listen, you can say, well they were mean to me.

00:56:38
Speaker 4: No, No, you had it hard.

00:56:40
Speaker 3: I've had it hard. I'm not mean to people. You're not mean to people, so there's no excuse. And that's why my biggest thing was character, and your character has all. You are the same girl I met back at BT and you have not changed. You have not changed one and neither of you.

00:56:58
Speaker 5: Your energy, he's so sweet, it's always so kind. You've always been about your business. Yes, thank you, I love you too.

00:57:06
Speaker 4: Yes, get the world.

00:57:16
Speaker 1: Reality with the King is executive produced by me Carlos King, produced by Lizzie.

00:57:23
Speaker 2: Nimitz, and a partnership with the Lack Effect Network.

00:57:27
Speaker 1: You can also find us on my YouTube channel at be Carlos King Underscore