What's Holding Up the Phillies?

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Phi.

00:00:03
Speaker 2: Everyone is a Jordan Romano and welcome to The Philly Show.

00:00:08
Speaker 1: Hey, Rubin Tomorrow, Junior, Jim Salisbury, Todd's Lucky brought to you by the File Territory Network.

00:00:13
Speaker 2: It's the Philly Show.

00:00:14
Speaker 1: It's Thursday, December nineteenth, twenty twenty four.

00:00:17
Speaker 2: I hope everybody is doing well. Ruben, you're doing well? Right? You got that.

00:00:21
Speaker 3: I'm grooving, man, I'm grooming.

00:00:23
Speaker 2: It's groovy, baby, groovy.

00:00:24
Speaker 3: It's groovy.

00:00:26
Speaker 2: Are you guys doing good?

00:00:29
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:00:30
Speaker 3: Jim, you look like you are thrilled. Look at you. Look at that energy. You're on fire.

00:00:38
Speaker 4: I'm having a cup of stress.

00:00:41
Speaker 3: Are you having a cocktail?

00:00:43
Speaker 4: No, I'm having a cup of stressed relief tea, Yogi t Are you feeling stressed?

00:00:50
Speaker 3: No?

00:00:50
Speaker 4: But I actually I kind of like the herbal flavor and the fumes or whatever you call them. The you know, it's very soothing.

00:01:00
Speaker 2: It is the holidays.

00:01:02
Speaker 3: I like to shoot with bourbon.

00:01:05
Speaker 4: I'm having a little herbal tea, no caffeine.

00:01:07
Speaker 3: Well you're you're a better man than I.

00:01:12
Speaker 4: But I'm always thrilled to be with you, gentlemen.

00:01:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's dame, it's fun. It's fun. It's the it's the holidays. Uh, baseball is still going on. Phillies don't have much going on, but they will at some point. So the other day on all of our social media channels, almost all of them, I put it out there asking for questions, questions from our viewers or listeners or fans, Phillies fans.

00:01:38
Speaker 2: We got a bunch. We got a bunch.

00:01:40
Speaker 1: And they kind of focused on one thing, which is what and the heck is going on with this team?

00:01:46
Speaker 2: When are they going to do something? So let's start here. Why can't we get a trade done?

00:01:51
Speaker 1: It seems like we have good offers on these rumored trades as from Team Montgomery ten on Instagram. You guys have any feelings on why they can't get a trade done, Rubin, you can speak to that better. They But I'm sure you've been wanting to make some trades in the past and you just couldn't get it done. What's going on right now?

00:02:06
Speaker 3: I think that's probably a combination of things. I think one of the common One of the things is that you know, it's difficult to match up sometimes. I mean, the beauty is always in the eye they beholder. And but but I think that there's a bigger issue here as far as trades are concerned. To me, in this day and age, no GM wants to be hoodwinked. They're extremely careful about like at the end of the day, they don't want to get beaten on a trade. And it's there's an ego thing. They have to talk, they have to you know, you know, they have to answer to their bosses. There's a there's a social media aspect that, oh, I can't believe they made that move, and why did you make that move? That's ridiculous that guy that's too good of a prospect. I mean, how do you give that prospect package up for that guy? I mean, it's everybody's got an opinion about it, and it's so far out there as far as social media is concerned, that it's gotten to the point of ridiculousness. I always believe that you make a trade to try to be equitable to both teams, and if you can do that, and you can find a way to be equitable and get a trade done that helps both teams, then you make a trade. I mean, it's sort of simple as that, and it's not about beating the other guy. It's not trying to hoodwink anybody. It's about trying to do what's best for your organization. And that's how I used to operate, and so I would try to give talent for talent. And so I think that there is a reluctance to do something unless you feel like, unless you know there's a money aspect to it where you have to dump a guy, or there's a prospect situation where I mean, they're so highly coveted now the prospects, and most of the prospects don't ever become anything. What's amazing is there's very few prospects that ever really become great players, because prospects are prospects and guys who are in the major leagues performing their performers and they are doing their jobs.

00:04:15
Speaker 5: So there's a lot of different things that are going on right now, and part of them is one, you know, gms don't want to be hoodwinked, and two or they don't want to be embarrassed.

00:04:27
Speaker 3: And to the level of covet as far as prospects are concerned is beyond imagination. They put numbers on this that are just off the charts ridiculous, and the truth of the matter is most of those damn prospects don't ever get to the big leagues or make an impact, right.

00:04:46
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think it's what the Phillies are facing in my opinion, in terms of them not yet making a trade, and I'm gonna say they probably still will before clear Water. There's still winter left time to get things done. I think they have a finite amount of trade capital because they're Big League. Roster is very locked in in terms of age, salaries, contracts that might be immovable, and they're going to be very protective and their core and the Big League is getting older, so they're protective of their prospects, their upper tier prospects, so they want to start moving them in maybe as soon as next year. So the pieces that they can actually move are limited. When you have limited pieces, there's less that appeals to other teams, and everything that might come back is expensive in terms of financial commitment, and the Phillies have had such big outlays in previous winters, with three hundred million dollars deals. With the payroll starting to push up against the three to zero one fourth luxury tax, it feels like the payroll is tight. It feels like they want to keep a handle on their upper tuner prospects. That creates the limited amount of guys you're willing to trade, and there's not a big appetite to take back a lot of money, so that limits getting the right guy back. And I think that's one of the reasons maybe we're seeing them, we're seeing some of the inaction as they wait for the right deal that fits all of those categories, you know, from the prospect you have to give up or the big league you have to give up to what you have to take back. So they're really like, it feels like nobody's told me this. We're just putting things together. This is a Davin Roski talk. It feels like they kind of walk amount of razor blade.

00:07:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

00:07:02
Speaker 1: This is kind of segues into this next question from tigro Tony on X. How could the Phillies not be involved or interested in a Cody Bellinger? Guy streks out less one hundred times a year, he has power, high on base, a defender in a position of need. How does New York how do the Yankees get him for middle reliever? And to me, when I look, now, he gets left handed. Maybe they didn't want another left handed bat on there. But that trade, when I saw the Cubs also kicked in five million dollars, Cody Bellinger next season is gonna make twenty seven and a half million dollars. To me, that that might indicate that the payrolls payroll is a big deal, you know. Like right now, Fangrafts projects the Phillies payroll to be over to be around two hundred and eighty nine million dollars.

00:07:47
Speaker 2: That's over the third luxury time.

00:07:48
Speaker 1: So you add on a Cody Bellinger and now you're ten million dollars past the fourth luxury tax threshold right about that, And now you're paying about fifty one million dollars in penalties, you know, once you blow about ten million dollars past that fourth luxury tax at three oh one. So I'm not saying that that's why they didn't want Cody Belger. Again, maybe they didn't want the left that they didn't want a left hand another left handed bat in the lineup.

00:08:14
Speaker 2: Maybe they didn't like the player. Maybe they see a guy who's two up and down. But when you see the Yankees give up a kind.

00:08:21
Speaker 1: Of a middle reliever swing guy type guy and get five million dollars back as well.

00:08:26
Speaker 2: It goes.

00:08:26
Speaker 1: Now, maybe maybe the payroll is a little bit of a bigger deal than the Fiells are letting on.

00:08:32
Speaker 2: Of course they're not going to say, yeah, we're not, We're not. That's not that's a crippling issue for us.

00:08:37
Speaker 3: I think it with a combination of things. I think it was probably the money won and I think that too, maybe that that outlay is not worth it for that player. And I think you're absolutely right, Jim. I think he hit it right on the head. I mean there's a there's a lot of issues going on. They've probably thrown out a ton of money. This team has to perform because they put money into really good players, and really good players do have to perform, especially when it's time to perform, which is in the playoffs. We say have not done as well as they have in you know, in total over the last three years. So you'd like to see them obviously performing at the right time. And I think money's a real issue here. I think you're right, Todd. I think it's it's it. You can't call the Phillies cheap. But but the well is not unending. I mean, you know, at some point you have to turn off the faucet, and you have to hope that the guys that are there right now do what they're supposed to do. And the guys that are growing the stots and the bones and all of those other guys are kirkerings. They have to step forward and they have to be guys because and they have to continue to improve, and you sort of hope that happens. I mean, there's tweaks and there's some things that are gonna do. I guarantee you they're not going in to the in into the spring training with the team that they have right now. That's not gonna happen. I can I'll eat that shoe that you broke out there, uh Jim if they go yeah, if they if they actually do do that, I guarantee you that they're going to make some moves. There's no question about it. I think they have to make the right moves and they have to be precise, and I think you're right. I think listen, they don't want to have to once they have to start replacing some of these guys, the older guys that are expiring contracts to Cassianos of the world, the JT. Real Muto's of the world. Once those contracts expire, they have to have people step up and be those guys and to take over in a cheap way and a young way and a controllable way. And I think that the you know, the Aiden Millers and the you know Andrew Painters, and you know, hopefully multiples of those those types of players, the Crawfords of the world, are gonna have to step forward and be those guys because you just can't survive continuously buying and buying and buying. It's just not gonna happen.

00:11:11
Speaker 4: They're gonna look, they're gonna have a good season because they have good personnel, bowering catastrophic injuries, and you know, if they're gonna get where they want to go. We know where they want to go deep October Championship. They're gonna get where they want to go. It ain't gonna be with and I do think they're gonna make tweaks before clear Water. I agree they're not gonna have the same team. They will be different guys. But if they want, if they're gonna get where they want to go, it's it's not gonna be with that tweak or two. It's going to be with the big guns that are already here. I said the same thing as the trade them mhm. And it's gonna be with And they didn't get where they wanted to go because only one big gun really performed proper in the postseason. How uh Wheeler as well. But you know, bullpen let them down. Offense let him down. They have the personnel. That personnel needs to perform. Scott is huge. He needs you know, we have some some intelligence now that his elbow was hurting. He's a good baseball player. They need more out of him, need improvement, They need more consistency from Turner. You get that, and your lineup's already going to be better. And I do think you know, they'll get somebody in in left field. I don't know, maybe the Taylor Ward or somebody like that might be a fit.

00:12:33
Speaker 3: It could be a Mark Hanna, could be somebody like that. I mean, I mean, it could just be a piece that they can rely on that can help stretch out that lineup a little bit. But you're right about that, Jim. I mean, big boys have to step forward and they have to perform, and the young guys too.

00:12:49
Speaker 2: For sure.

00:12:50
Speaker 1: So Ruby, you mentioned boem a couple questions on Bom not not a surpriser because he's been out there forever Ken Rosenthal of a fair territory, and then the Athletics that he thinks he is going to.

00:13:00
Speaker 2: Get traded at some point. A couple questions.

00:13:03
Speaker 1: Do you think the Phillies are overvaluing Boom? That's from Owen Swoes on X. If the Phillies do move Boom, what are the realistic options to replace him at third base? That's from Sean Francis eight on Instagram. Is he being overvalued? Who replaces them? And that's the other thing too. Everybody's like, yeah, we got to great bomb, get get a starting pitcher, or like okay, who's playing third base?

00:13:26
Speaker 2: And then and then it was playing left field.

00:13:29
Speaker 3: Dave Dombrowski's doing exactly what he's supposed to do. He's listening and he's he's thinking about and trying to make maneuvers to make this team better some way, shape or form. That doesn't mean you're getting rid of Alec Boom. This is not what This is not the exercise I noted like the fans like to talk about, oh we got to get rid of this guy, or we got to get rid of guess what, guys, He's exactly what they need in their lineup because he makes contact, he drives in runs, he does a lot of great things. And there's a lot of people would think about, you know, the last month of the season on this guy. What about the first like four years and three months or six months of what or five months of what he did? This is a good baseball player who's improved defensively. He's he's not a gold glove third baseman, but he is not a liability anymore. He's really improved there. He's gained a lot of confidence there. Bobby Dickerson's done a nice job with him. He drives in runs, he's a he uses the whole field. Is he a perennial All Star? I don't know about that, but he was an All Star this year. And so who do you replace the guy with? That's a bit, that's a huge deal, And who do you get for him? If you're gonna trade the guy, you better get knocked on your ass with a big deal because this guy is still under control for two years and he's a damn good baseball player. Did he have some attitude things going on last year at the end of the year. Did he Uh? Did he not look like the player that you sort of wanted to have a guy look like. Maybe, But you know what, he can grow up some, he can make some attitude adjustments, he can learn and deal with some of the failures that he had to deal with. And uh, And this is a really good ballplayer, man, This is a really good ballplayer. And you just don't get rid of these guys just for the sake of getting rid of them or for the sake of change. This is too good of a baseball player to do that.

00:15:31
Speaker 4: That's why they're asking high. You know, he's like their best trade ship. They got to aim high. I mean, I heard the report about the two top of the rotation Seattle guys. I don't know if that's true. I didn't hear from somebody who told me it's not really true. But I don't know. I haven't reported it because I don't know it to be true. But you know, they're they're aiming high, but I don't know who replaces it. Well, so you know, this is a utility guy in a good one. But he needs to be in that role or else he gets over exposed. Everybody has a role his role is not the everyday guy at third base and can give you three weeks. I can give you a couple of days a week here and there. But you know, I don't think I think that would be a step back. And I think obviously Bregman and the Aeronauto are out there, and that's when when those guys find landing spots, maybe you'll see the ball market tick up a little bit. But those guys come with huge price tags. And we just finished talking about where we think, how we think the payroll is impacting all this, So I don't know what's going to do well.

00:16:38
Speaker 2: I mean Eronato, I guess.

00:16:40
Speaker 1: It was reported on Wednesday that he had exercises no trade clause to avoid a trade with the Astros, and according to the report on MLB dot com, the Cardinals were willing to send the Astros fifteen to twenty million as part as the paydown for Aeronato, which is a big chuck of change.

00:16:57
Speaker 2: But that gives you an idea.

00:16:59
Speaker 1: You talk about potential replacements, I mean Aeronauto doesn't mean he's not going to go to Houston, or that that deal is end up changing or you know, end up happening, But you know, Aeronauta could fall off the board and.

00:17:09
Speaker 4: You still got to pay prospects for him too. If if Philadelphia isn't playing, that's tough.

00:17:14
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, especially if especially if you're gonna have to pay him down and that they're gonna have to pay him down to heavily, and then then you know, then then there's there's that balance. I mean, now you got to get prospects and you know, the deal with the money, I mean, it's a lot, and it's not easy, and it's not easy to put all the pieces of the puzzle together. Believe me, everybody thinks, you know, trades are just done. There's a lot of crap going on, guys, and and people have to understand that.

00:17:41
Speaker 1: And if Aeronauta was about to go to the Astros, what does that tell you about Bregman's asking price? If the Asters like man, we're moving on, you know that that that might that tells me that they don't think that they can afford him, or that they just don't want to, you know, they just don't want to afford him.

00:17:58
Speaker 3: Maybe, and no respect to these players, but the people that think that, guys like uh, I don't know Weston Wilson or you know, even Cody Clemens can be in everyday third basement. They're wrong, They're not. That's not their role, that's not what they do, and they hang in there for a little while. You mentioned that Mundo Sosa, I mean, he would probably be the only guy who could do it, But these guys are not every day third basement. Being in every day third basement in the major leagues is a big deal. And neither one of not one of those guys on this roster, if Boma's gone, can do that job.

00:18:42
Speaker 2: Well.

00:18:42
Speaker 1: Remember last year when when Trey went down at Mundo Sosa played trust up. He was unbelievable for a few weeks and everybody was like, this guy put Tray in center field or you know makes those in the every day short stop or vice versa, puts Sosa on center and and then what happened that you know, Sosa came back to earth.

00:19:01
Speaker 2: And I'm a big I'm a big ed Mundo Sosa.

00:19:03
Speaker 3: Fect great, real good player, great player in this role.

00:19:06
Speaker 1: Absolutely do you think I know what your answer is gonna be, guys, but I'm gonna ask it anyway, just because there was a it's a question that was asked Eagles forty four and Blue Sky wants to know do you think that Philly should trade Ranger?

00:19:16
Speaker 2: Odds are he isn't signing your long term.

00:19:19
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys saw this, but on Monday, Scott Boris Corporation put out a little Instagram story saying welcome aboard Ranger. Soarez so so Ranger is part of the Boris Court.

00:19:31
Speaker 4: I you know what, when I saw that, I decided, like you know, I'd be open minded on Ranger, depending on the return. Now you're gonna be short in the rotation, but depending on how you can feel it. But when I saw he signed with Scott Boris, there's no way in hell I'm trading him because Boris is gonna keep him so focused in calendar year season twenty twenty five, his walk year. Boris is gonna keep him focused, gonna keep him hydrated, gonna keep.

00:20:01
Speaker 2: Him eating right.

00:20:02
Speaker 4: I'm gonna keep him working out. I'm gonna make sure he's keeping his back in good shape and gonna he's gonna be in his ear, motivating him and having all the mental guidance and everything, you know, locked in not having a good year and a big payday, So I am keeping range of Suarez and banking that. You know, he goes on a humungo salary drive.

00:20:27
Speaker 2: Big heater, Big Heater twenty twenty five.

00:20:29
Speaker 3: Jim yours right, smack dab on the nose. We've talked about this, Yeah, I think I've said it publicly about wanting this guy to pitch in this one year contract because he'd be the most motivated guy on the planet. This guy wheels off one hundred and ninety innings and eighteen to twenty wins and he's gonna sign a deal like Max Freed or something like it. And that's that's the motivation for both Scott Boris and Ranger Schwarez.

00:20:58
Speaker 4: You don't you think Scott's influence is gonna be a positive?

00:21:01
Speaker 3: No question about it?

00:21:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, no question.

00:21:04
Speaker 4: I love it because God don't own his own team of mental skill.

00:21:09
Speaker 3: He's got his hold the whole thing.

00:21:10
Speaker 4: Has his nutrition guys, he has his stretching guys, he has his fitness guys. He's got all the bases covered. And you know, Ranger, that's the move.

00:21:23
Speaker 1: There's a reason why a lot of players go to Scott. It's not just because he gives gets guys big paydays. But you know, I think I've talked to about this with people, like if if my son was ever a first round draft pick material and they're like, would you let Scott Boris represent? Like, yeah, what if Scott made the pitch and my son was comfortable? One hundred percent, I would let Scott Boris represent represent my son. You know, I mean he's gonna, you know, probably get him a lot of money, and you know you need to get it while you can.

00:21:49
Speaker 2: So I agree with you guys one hundred percent.

00:21:53
Speaker 1: Do not trade. Do not trade rangers for it. So there's some bigger picture questions. Uh, is this teaming toward running it back? That's from Michael Braggeting on X. Do you think that the Phillies are viewing this as a transitional year. That's from Michael Stark on Blue Sky some other you know, some other parts of that question. But I don't know if they're gonna run it back. I still think I agree with both of you guys. I think they're going to get something done. They're going to make some more moves before Clearwater. Maybe we're sitting here on February twelve, February thirteenth. We're in Clearwater and we're saying, Wow, I can't believe the only thing they've got was Jordan Romano. But I would be very, very surprised if that was the case too.

00:22:33
Speaker 3: I think, Dan, that's not a transitional year. I mean, they're trying to win trophies, man, Yeah, trying to win trophies, and they're going to do it. They're gonna do They're gonna do what they need, what they feel they need to do, within their budget and within their you know, reasoning, as far as not not you know, giving up their future. And so they're they've got a really good team. If you look at the power rankings right now and you started talking about the pundits and the people to make decisions, this is still a top five team in baseball, Top five team in baseball. Baby. As far as overall talent, I'll take If you ask any GM on the planet, would you take this team, and you would say yes, I would absolutely take this team because it's a damn good team. But they're going to have to perform and it's not easy to win.

00:23:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't have transition years. I'm sorry, I think I stepped on your Roub. If you don't have transition years when you have a three hundred million dollar pair roll. Bryce Harper's head would pop off if they told them we'll having a transition year. I know how bad you want that World Series? Are they?

00:23:44
Speaker 3: And so when John Milton's.

00:23:47
Speaker 4: They want to win a trophy, they're there. They got some challenges, but the personnel is still you know, like Dave den Brosky said, you gotta play well at the right time, and.

00:23:59
Speaker 3: They didn't. They haven't played well at the right time, and they got to make some adjustments. They got to make some adjustments in there.

00:24:04
Speaker 4: Got to be better during the season. I mean, they've got to be better during the season going into the playoffs. They were a five hundred team after June eleventh. That is that's that's troubling. But they're better than that. They're better than that. They just they need to be more consistent, maybe play with a little more urgency, and maybe have a little more edge. I mean, I think sometimes and I'm not I hope this' I think it's sometimes it's good to play on the edge and when you get that big lead, and they weren't on the edge all the time, I think he's just been playing on the edge and playing and being on edge. But being pushed a little bit more next year might not be the worst thing for them.

00:24:48
Speaker 3: They might be might be better from behind than from ahead. I mean in a lot of ways. I mean, you look at it to twenty two and twenty three, they sort of played from behind, right, underdogs, they were the guys they got got out star lead, they got off the great lead last year, and they kind of coached it on in because nobody really pushed him. The team. You know, Atlanta was hurt and the Mets weren't that great, but they got better and they got some mojo going, and that's the reason why they got beat in the playoffs because they had a little bit more mojo working and they made the adjustments that were necessary and the Phillies didn't. Right.

00:25:24
Speaker 1: Uh.

00:25:25
Speaker 2: A couple of questions about free agents.

00:25:26
Speaker 1: If you guys have a name bo ninety two ninety two on Instagram, weight man stats on Instagram. Want to know top free agent you think the Phillies will sign at this point? Is there a name that you know I'm not necessarily saying, is that it going to be an Alex Bragman, But is there a guy that you know, Ruben, you mentioned Mark Hanna. That was the name I thought maybe you could fill into that spot and left field. I mean, that's not going to get anybody excited, of course, but no. But but you know, talking about free agents, like does Tasker Hernandez Anthony sant Ander, you know, get you guys excited?

00:25:58
Speaker 2: Does that either those two guys make sense?

00:26:01
Speaker 3: Yeah?

00:26:02
Speaker 4: I mean, but they're both looking for big paydays and they both cost draft picks. So I just don't know. I mean, you know, I'll say something here that it won't excite people at all, and they'll be like, ah, we're run it back. But what if a guy like a Stevez stays out there for a while and we'll take a one year deal, right, I'm jumping that. It doesn't really get you excited, but.

00:26:31
Speaker 3: That gives him some more depth. I'll take it. I mean, they'll make them better.

00:26:35
Speaker 5: And said, listen, if if if I wanted to pluck somebody.

00:26:40
Speaker 3: That I thought was semi realistic, it'd be Tanner Scott. M Tanner. Scott's still out there. Unless I've missed something, He's still out there, and he's good looking for a big payday. But who knows, maybe he ends up doing a pillow contract that he doesn't get like that six year deal or four year deal or five year deal, whatever the hell he wants. I love pitching. I love to err on the side of pitching. And if they can't do anything with their left fielder and center fielder and they have to live with those two guys or live with some combination of those guys and add to pitching, because pitching wins.

00:27:18
Speaker 2: Right, you know.

00:27:18
Speaker 1: And going back to the payroll stuff, maybe they and again I'm not saying they were interested in Cody Bellinger, but maybe they weren't interested in blowing past that fourth luxury a tax for Cody Linger. But but maybe for a right handed bat that they feel really comfortable about that they could get in the trade or they could get via free agency. Maybe for that player they go, Okay, well we'll take this huge, huge penalty in taxes and go for that player.

00:27:44
Speaker 2: So it's not to say that they won't blow past that night.

00:27:46
Speaker 3: Well, the only guy would for me would be Bragnant. I mean, if you're really good at I mean that that would be the guy for me, because he's such because he fits so well with what they're trying to do. I think that you know that that type of bitter that side of the plate. You know, championship caliber player. He's got rings, you know the whole nine yards. You know, this is a baseball rat. This is you know, the kind of player you won on your team. He fits all those things. He doesn't necessarily fit the budget because he's such a good player. I mean, the guy's going to command over two hundred million dollars. It's as simple as that. I don't think that they're.

00:28:22
Speaker 4: Ready to do that. And you have a third baseman who we don't know for sure is going to be moved. I wonder if Bregman might go play second base in Boston.

00:28:32
Speaker 3: I'd be a great call for them. I mean, he could be a goal glover at second, short or third. For me, I've watched him at shortstop for a long time in LSU. I know what he can do. He is a brilliant fielder. He'll make himself a great a goal glover because that's who he is. Shoot. I mean, in a perfect world, I signed the guy and put him at second, move Turner to center field, and move stotas short.

00:29:01
Speaker 2: Let's go.

00:29:03
Speaker 3: I believe listen, that's that's very unrealistic. But I mean, I mean, if I can wait, if I could wave a wand and do that, I think that would make this team a brilliant team.

00:29:14
Speaker 4: Probably, so Dave was asked again last week at the winter meetings. Todd was there, I was there about moving Turner, and you know, he was kind of absolute in October when it came up. He did at this point say you never say never, but also indicated they're not ready to do it now. But I see that move to left field happening at some point during his time in Philadelphia. Another reason why I think, and I don't think a Miller is necessarily untouchable, like in the right deal, depending on the right opportunity where you might get back. But I think chances of him being dealt are very very slim. And you know, the the uncertainty on the left side of the diamond possibly moving turn to the outfield some day, not now, but someday, alec Bone possibly being traded, that uncertainty on the left left side of the diamond. Even if Poe was not traded, he's only two more years ago. That uncertainty of the left side of the diamond is why I think one of the reasons of being so protective of the Miller.

00:30:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta, you gotta keep that in mind. I mean, yeah, Boone doesn't. You're right, Jim, but Boone doesn't get traded two years from now he leaves.

00:30:24
Speaker 3: Miller is the man.

00:30:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, Aiden Miller's a guy, right, Yes, I agree that it would have to be a very special player for me to move Aiden Miller based off of everything everybody who's been evaluating talent.

00:30:36
Speaker 2: For decades has said about this guy. They think he's he.

00:30:40
Speaker 3: Could be there, Alex Bragman, he could be there, Alex Bragman, That's who I view him as. That would be my comp if he becomes a player that the people think that he can become, he could be that guy.

00:30:50
Speaker 1: It reminds me of this story rub and you were there in the front office years ago when I think it was the A's were calling or they want to Chase right for maybe Chase and Cole, but definitely chance for who.

00:31:06
Speaker 2: Veto for Zito?

00:31:07
Speaker 1: Right?

00:31:07
Speaker 2: It was Zito.

00:31:07
Speaker 1: They wanted to choose Jason Madson, yep, yep, chasing Madson. There you go, and man, that worked that well.

00:31:13
Speaker 3: Not some of the some of the best trades. Some of the best trades you make are the ones you don't.

00:31:17
Speaker 2: Make exactly exactly.

00:31:19
Speaker 1: And if you really and those people in the Phillies front office really believe that guy is.

00:31:24
Speaker 2: Special, then you want to hold on. Yeah, then you want to hold.

00:31:30
Speaker 4: On said best trades.

00:31:31
Speaker 1: One.

00:31:31
Speaker 4: You know, Ruben Madson was Ryan I'm sorry, Ryan Madson was such and important. His his emergence and his ascension was so important to that twenty and eighteen It was like in August of two thousand and eight he became an assassin and he such a difference maker, gave them such another big weapon in that bullpen, such a huge part of that championship team.

00:31:55
Speaker 3: He went from becoming like being a fourth or fifth starter to being an assassin in the bullpen. And you're absolutely right, and he helped us win a world series.

00:32:05
Speaker 2: Rubin, did you were you guys absolutely convinced Chase is going to be a star player when that stuff was going down. Yes, I mean like there.

00:32:15
Speaker 1: Wasn't as well maybe not, you know, were you were one hundred percent sure that this guy, Chase out Lee was going to be a star player.

00:32:22
Speaker 3: I mean, you can never be one hundred percent sure, but you knew that you knew that this guy was going to figure out. I remember having a discussion with my dad about, you know, when we if you remember, at one point, because we traded Scott Roland, we moved him to third base that one year, and he played third base in Leigh Valley Jumping. He didn't even play. He never played in Reddick. He went from he went from Clearwater to to Lehigh Excutiny was Scranton, went to Scranton. We put him at third base in his first you know, several weeks, he's made a ton of air throwing airs. And I remember going telling my dad's and dad and this guy played third base. Is he going to be able to play defense in the big leagues? And he said, son, son, don't you worry about Chase Sudley. He will be fine. Just let him play. He'll be fine. If he needs to play third base, he'll be fine. If he needs to play second base, he'll be fine. And he's right because he knew that Chase would do everything in his power to be as good of a player as he could possibly be wherever he played. And he was right dead I'm not going to say it dead.

00:33:37
Speaker 4: On dead nuts, dead nuts on.

00:33:42
Speaker 2: And that's the thing about Aden Miller.

00:33:44
Speaker 1: If these guys in the Phillies front office think he is going to be a Chase Ully type or a Alex Brigman type, you know, then I don't know if I want to put him in a trade for Nolan Aernado or somebody who's been showing some signs of decline over the past few years.

00:34:00
Speaker 3: Amen, brother, And.

00:34:01
Speaker 4: He's gonna make seven hundred or eight hundred thousand as a rookie, you know, exactly right, And they need to have that those types of salaries start starting to mix in and give you payroll.

00:34:14
Speaker 1: Balance, right right, Ruben, you got to touch on this one. I don't know if this is a follow up. Is a Mike Trout trade possible? That's Ryan Davis thirty eight on Instagram. If so, what would that trade look like?

00:34:26
Speaker 3: That would look like the Angels giving the Phillies every amount I don't know what, you know, three hundred millions dollars still would have to get Phillies would have to get two hundred of the two hundred million, two hundred and twenty million back to get a make a trade with them. That's a simple thing. I would do that, right, I would do that because the players not available. He's hurt all the time, and you can't take that risk. Not that those at those numbers, everybody wants to fall in. And I listen, Mike Trout is a Hall of Famer, amazing player. He's hurt, he doesn't play. If they want to pay him all the way down and we dump like a like a decent prospect on him, I'm in sure. Otherwise I'm out right.

00:35:15
Speaker 2: And that's some people from there.

00:35:18
Speaker 3: It's not Gonnapp.

00:35:19
Speaker 1: I think it was maybe even last spring, somebody kicked on the idea of a Trout trade. And so the guy's hurt all the time, all the time.

00:35:25
Speaker 3: Love him, but he's if he's own two hundred and twenty five million dollars or two hundred and twenty million dollars, if they pay one hundred and ninety of it, and we have to pay thirty of it for like the next I don't know, was it four or five years? More years, then I'm in. Otherwise I'm out right.

00:35:40
Speaker 1: Okay, right, all right, last question, and this is totally unrelated. I feel like we've covered all covered all the bases of what's been going on, and I've been going on with the Phillies. Uh not directly a Phillies question. Boy, it was your best baseball Montreal memory? And Jim cannot say the smoke to me. This is from Philly, the Phillies fan in Montreal on X.

00:36:01
Speaker 3: We have month.

00:36:02
Speaker 4: We have Phillies fans in Montreal. That's awesome.

00:36:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, Phillis fans in Montreal.

00:36:07
Speaker 3: I love that. If I can give you one of my memories, I got a chance. I think it was in nineteen ninety three when we were making a run there at the end, Peter and Kabilia went down to a knee injury. I think just before the series. It was a big series and we had to take We had to win at least one or two of those games. I think it was. Was it a four I can't remember whether it's a four game series or a three game series. Demanded towards the end of the year that year, and I got to play, and I was the other platoon, right handed hitting platoon and left field other than Milt Thompson. So Milt Thompson and then pe d and Kabilia were the platoon. But Pete went down, so I was the right handed bat, I drove in a run, I scored another run. I think I stole a base or something. And we ended up winning two of those three games or whatever we needed to win to finish off the division because they were creeping on us. And that was one of my best memories. I mean, Montreal is phenomenal city. I love it. There's a lot of things, very very international type of a city, but but for me, baseball wise, that was one of my favorite memories.

00:37:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome, great, one of my favorite cities. I just to go up there as a kid on like our youth hockey program would have like we've gone a long weekend and stay with the family and then they'd come there down to our place the next year. So I love that town. I have a regret about Montreal. I never saw a game at the Montreal Forum. That's a big regret, but I did. You know, I love sports history, and you know, when the when the Expos came in, they played at that Jarry Park, which is like a little old minor league stadium that they added on to and it's it's a stadium ballpark in the middle of like a municipal park. His basketball courts swimming pool, walking trails and is a baseball field, baseball stadium. They made it bigger. So I remember when, you know, watched seeing it on TV as a kid. So I remember once taking the train up there Someway with Paul Hagen and I went up and took the subway up to where Jerry Park is and converted into a tennis stadium now, But that swimming pool beyond right field is still there where Stargell hit that bomb into And it was really cool to see, you know this. They played Major League baseball in this place. It's in the middle of her neighborhood, and it was, you know, really cool. But so many great memories. And of course, you know, you know, you go out to cover a game and then you go to Ziggy's, which was a great fun place on Crescent Street. I may have saw the sun come up there once or twice.

00:38:57
Speaker 3: Did you go? Do you ever go to any other establishments or just Jiggys?

00:39:01
Speaker 4: It's just Ziggy's. I stayed out of those ones that I think you might be referring to.

00:39:08
Speaker 2: Ziggy is the one Jim where you go down the steps into the basement. It's a basement bar.

00:39:13
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And the umpires. The umpires would come there and it was a lot of fun at Ziggy's another time. This is a great story. I don't know if I should. I might have told it already. But once you know how like John Vukovic used to torment Chris Wheeler.

00:39:31
Speaker 2: I know this story, go for it.

00:39:32
Speaker 4: We were sitting in for Gosi's office before the game doing our pregame interview and Bukovich walked in and he grabbed Chris Wheeler's loafer shoe and he took it. And the clubhouse in Montfreal had this duct work. It was a high ceiling with ductwork exposed. Ceiling throws wheeler shoe up on the duct work. It's like eighteen feet high. You can't kill on it, and the we had to call maintenance to come down with the humongous ladder.

00:40:06
Speaker 3: He's trying to go in the air.

00:40:10
Speaker 4: I'm gonna get out of here. I gotta get up to the press spink. You can go. He's walking around with one shoe. Was very memorable.

00:40:17
Speaker 1: Montreal is a great place. I would be awesome if they've got baseball back.

00:40:21
Speaker 4: Well, it's your favorite memory. I covered the last game there. I had to go cover that game the night they left. That was that was weird. Yeah, your favorite memory, don't smoke me because we used to eat a lot of that.

00:40:32
Speaker 2: We did, Yeah, we did, you know. My my my memory of Montreal.

00:40:35
Speaker 1: I've said this before, like one of my favorite parts of the day about being on the beat is kind of like walking into the ballpark every day with like the game day, guys are just getting going.

00:40:43
Speaker 2: You hear guys taking early VP.

00:40:45
Speaker 1: So I always love that walk up from the subway or the metro, whatever you call it, into the ballpark, going up to the press box. That place was so dingy and beat up by the end, but it had such character to it. So I really loved this. I sound strange because I love being in that ballpark, even though I remember that last year at Olympic Stadium they had the clubhouse floor was linoleum and it was so beat up it started to kind of bubble over and it was probably so.

00:41:15
Speaker 2: You would remember this, so you would would walk in the clubhouse.

00:41:18
Speaker 1: And also stepping like you kind of sink down, was like, oh crap, there's a bubble bout eight inch tigh in the middle of this linoleum floor. So I just remember kind of that charming retro character of it. And the thing though that really sticks out for me is that was the first place where I covered a post game massive blow up by the manager that was Larry Boat. In two thousand and four, the Phillies lost I think like eight or nine.

00:41:48
Speaker 2: In a row.

00:41:49
Speaker 1: That was the trip that was the team meeting trip where the Phillies had lost eight or nine in a row. And afterward we're outside the clubhouse and you could just hear Larry, Oh, I'm just going baalistic on the players, and so then it ends we come in and somebody on the whoever was on the PR trip, but Philly's PR at the time. I told Larry that they heard everything that happened outside the door, and so we we tried to ask Larry some questions, but I said, I the only thing I will say is I'm disappointed that we lost this game or whatever the quote was. And then you went around to the club to the players in the clubhouse, and I remember talking to Mike, like, Mike, what was you know, what was going on? He kind of and they kind of gave me the eyes, you know, And I remember talking to I think it was Jim Tomey or somebody else that played in that game.

00:42:40
Speaker 2: They go, you heard that, Oh yeah, we heard it.

00:42:43
Speaker 3: We heard it.

00:42:44
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we heard it.

00:42:45
Speaker 1: So that's you know, that was a that's definitely a memory that because that was the first real big time post game manager tirade that I had to cover and write it.

00:42:54
Speaker 4: I remember, Todd, I remember your story. Yeah, I remember it because I was I wasn't up to I wasn't on the strip, but I was meeting the team in New York the next day. They were flying down to New York Shea Stadium. Yeah, And it continued that weekend, the drama anyway. But I remember your story in the Inquirer that day. I remember your lead. You remember your lead.

00:43:19
Speaker 2: I think it was like the tick tick tick boom because.

00:43:21
Speaker 4: Larry it was great. It was tick tick boom, something like kick boom.

00:43:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Larry was You could tell Larry was getting frustrated and it was coming to a head at some point. And they lost that last game in Montreal. I can't remember who was pitching for the Expos that day, but it was a bad loss.

00:43:39
Speaker 2: And yeah, I remember one.

00:43:43
Speaker 3: I do remember one one, Quickie, I had to blow up with a writer one time because we had gone That was the first I think it was the first series after the spring training and we were trying to shine. We tried to get Oral Hershey and we had him. We we were going to overpay him, and we were going to sign him and we were going to bring him in because we needed another, you know, a veteran arm maybe a fourth or fifth starter. And we thought we had him. And he ended up going to Cleveland or he went No, no, he had cland No, he didn't go to Cleveland. He went to He didn't go to Cleveland, went to the Giants.

00:44:23
Speaker 4: I think I went to Cleveland because I remember talking to him because.

00:44:27
Speaker 3: I played with him. I played with him in Cleveland.

00:44:29
Speaker 4: He went back to Cleveland, went back to Cleveland because they were still a winter haven. And I I want to talk about why he didn't pick the Phillies.

00:44:36
Speaker 3: And it was not and it and and it was I'm not going to name the writer. He was a writer that kind of rought us the wrong way sometimes. But I remember him writing the Phillies being cheap another reason why the Phillies didn't get a player, because the Phillies were being cheap and I blew up on this guy, like nobody's business man. I couldn't handle it because the reality of it was, we were paying him more money. We offered him like a lot more money, don't know, it was like fifty percent more money. And he decided to go to Cleveland because he felt like Cleveland was like a better chance for him to win or whatever.

00:45:13
Speaker 4: That was exactly what it was.

00:45:15
Speaker 3: And so, and you know, it had nothing to do with money. He just wanted to go to a different team. It was one of those rare instances where it wasn't about the money, it was really about trying to win again. And and when he wrote that, and I was like, dude, we're not lying to you, I said, I said, we we literally offered him more money, and that we could have offered him a billion dollars and he probably.

00:45:41
Speaker 2: Wouldn't have freaking gone to the Prince.

00:45:43
Speaker 3: And I just remember having that, I mean a serious shouting match, and it was echoing, and thankfully I was in a different I think it was in a press level, but it was far away. I don't know if anybody knew about it, but that was one of my big blow ups as an assistant GM. I was defending the flag.

00:46:01
Speaker 2: That's good, man, that's good. Defend defend the flag.

00:46:04
Speaker 4: I think I know who that guy might have been.

00:46:07
Speaker 3: Oh, I think you all know who we are.

00:46:09
Speaker 4: I'm sure you had a little a little pent up.

00:46:12
Speaker 3: It's probably a lot, not just a little.

00:46:16
Speaker 2: Ah, that's great, man.

00:46:19
Speaker 3: He was not as professional as you guys were.

00:46:21
Speaker 1: We are the we're utmost professionals to leave that twenty four seven. Yeah, well this is thanks to everybody that sent in these questions we had. We had a we had a few more, but they kind of covered We covered all the basics right mentioned their names.

00:46:37
Speaker 4: Give them a plug. You know, people like to see their names in the newspaper.

00:46:40
Speaker 2: What would your off season plan be from here?

00:46:42
Speaker 1: See tossi too on Instagram, you know, create your ideal off season plan roster you Colin Schmid, we kind of got into some.

00:46:49
Speaker 2: Of that stuff.

00:46:50
Speaker 3: You know.

00:46:50
Speaker 2: I think they're going to go out and get a left fielders, you.

00:46:52
Speaker 3: Know, and they got to get a fifth starter, man, they got to get another army to compete.

00:46:57
Speaker 1: Fifth starters aren't going to sign right now, right, I mean they're no, that's like the Spencer Turnbull type thing.

00:47:02
Speaker 4: Late.

00:47:03
Speaker 1: I think Spencer Turnbull was on Super Bowl Sunday or that when that news broke. So you know, think think early February, late January for that.

00:47:10
Speaker 3: Is Spencer's turbul still out there.

00:47:12
Speaker 1: Spencer Turnbull is still out there. Yeah, yeah, so there you go. Maybe you bring him back. Maybe you get Carlos the Stevez on a one.

00:47:18
Speaker 3: Years damn good for the first couple of months.

00:47:20
Speaker 4: That before he blew up.

00:47:22
Speaker 2: You know, then they never know. Yeah, you never know, you never know.

00:47:26
Speaker 1: Still still some off season ago, like you guys, Yeah, you know.

00:47:30
Speaker 4: You say, this was a fun podcast and a lengthy one.

00:47:35
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it is lengthy.

00:47:36
Speaker 3: Let's wrap.

00:47:37
Speaker 2: Let's wrap this bad boy up. All right, guys, We'll see you next week.

00:47:41
Speaker 4: Smell related boys, Smell Yeah.

00:47:43
Speaker 1: The Philly Show is brought to you by the Foul Territory Network. Subscribe to The Philly Show on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. If you like us, give us a review, follow us on Instagram, TikTok x, Facebook, and threads. Find Rubens analysis before during an a half after Phillies games on NBC Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports Radio ninety four, WIP Morning Show, and MLB Network Find Jim at all pH l y dot com. Find me at MLB dot com, the Phillies beatnewsletter, and MLB Network