Madison Sasser: Embracing the Voyage of Self-Discovery and Thriving with Autism in the Literary World

Welcome to Why Not Me the World? Podcast, hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join
us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will
make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life
people who will inspire and show that you are not
alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World.
Today's guest is Madison Sasser. She's an author a blog,
and today she's here to share her story of being
recently diagnosed autistic. Thanks for coming on.
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Oh, it's my pleasure. I understand you was recently diagnosed autistic.
What age was that?
So I was diagnosed probably about twenty.
Three, Okay, So age twenty three you get diagnosed autistic.
What were some of the events that led you to
go to get a diagnosis?
Yeah, so I was always plenty on going to law school.
That was always Michael okay, And so in school I
was diagnosed with ADHD when I was about ten or
about twelve, all right, So it was something that I
always knew I had, and when I was diagnosed, the
professor that diagnosed me told me disclores it not to
ask for the extra time that I was entitled to.
You want exam, right, And so I always had this
feeling of like knowing that I was smart, and I,
like my friends were all the top ten people in
the class, and yet I was performing so much lower
in them despite knowing that I was just as smart
as them. So it was kind of just like feeling
that I had, like I was an imposter. And then
when I got into college, like all my friends were
getting into their top choices, I got weightlifted and eventually
got an off the weightlift. So and I remember I
was sitting in my therapist's office in college and I was
so confused and like I don't even sneak here, and
she's like, okay, you got into a school with a
forty percent like acceptance, right. And at the time, I like,
I learned to over compensate. So I worked a lot
in restaurants and I did internships with different law firms
to try to make up for the test sports that
I knew I could make. So I was always trying
to find ways to boost my resume and make myself
more personable, make better connection so that they wouldn't look
at my test sports okay, And eventually I started working
in law firms, and after I graduated during the pandemic,
I got a job offer at this really big wall firm,
or it wasn't a big law firm, but it was
a very prestigious wall firm. And after eight months, I
was eventually acquired for an experience and I ran into
some different things at the law froom that I felt
like I was underperforming, But I also felt like I
was being misunderstood, and I understand why, right, So I
started going to therapy and I started like researching like
learning disorders, and then I found like nonverbal learning disorder,
which became like a form of autism. And then I
felt about how many women were misdiagnosed in the war
that like, I started researching these women and I started
reading their accounts of what their lives were, like I'm like, oh,
this is me, Okay, So that's when I decided to
get digest.
So, once you got diagnosed and you realize that you
are autistic, did you go through any emotions? What went
through your mind at that point? Was there a sense
of relief because now you know what's going on? Or
was it a sense of ear because what's going.
To happen for me? It was the fictions to relief,
but there was also a lot of reef. Okay, it
was the scrief of like I wish this would have
been recognized senior, right, And it was also this like
reef and this like conflicting emotion of like I had.
I went through a government agency and it took about
a year for me to get diagnosed, okay, but because
I couldn't find anyone who diagnosed still, I couldn't find
anyone that had a bailability because COVID everyone was kind
of like over resource or they just they didn't have
the capacity, right. And it's when you know something is wrong,
and when you know something is wrong, everyone tells you
to ask for help. It's your responsibility to advocate for yourself.
So I was doing that exactly like I was supposed to,
and then I was kind of met with resistance. I
was met with a lack of resources. And I don't
think it's to take anyone a year to get diagnosed, right, Like,
I don't think that that because that's the year that
you were waiting, that you're kind of taking short term
jobs to see what happens, Like there's so many things
that you missed because you're waiting for a year. Absolutely,
it was just and like there was also like when
I was at the law firm and I was since
I do have a DAC and I had never really
been on ADHD meds, I went to get ADAMAS and
then there was a shortage where I would have to
go to three different pharmacies and then they couldn't tell
you if they had it well because it was kind
of like a safety concern. So you're like asking for
help and you're using the resources that you're supposed to
use and then they are insufficient, And I found that
really frustrating.
Yeah, that's a common thread that I hear is that
it's difficult to get diagnosed, but it's more difficult once
you graduate and become an adult to get diagnosed. So
in that period of time that while you was waiting
to get diagnosed, you had all these things going through
your mind.
How did you cope? Yeah, So I kind of coped
through writing and through like sharing my experiences and sideblog
on medium, and so I would use my medium blogs
and then I would share it to my Twitter account
and it was kind of like it wasn't just about autism,
it was about kind of like my entire life. I
was reevaluating sure, because like and when I was going
to law school, I had this like idea of myself.
I was a very type a person. I was very
on it. I was very like motivated, Like I was
someone who I thought got things done, who is very ambitious.
And when I kind of lost that, I had to
find a way to get back that sense of my
thought sure, and blogging was a big way that I
was able to do that because like it was a
very external way of working and saying let people read
my writing or like let somebody commented on it, or
like look at my following, Like I wouldn't have this
if I was a bad writer. I wouldn't have this
if I was a person miss no motivation, Right, So
I kind of had to try to find ways to
redefine discipline and determination. I had to kind of find
a way to prove that I could still be that sure.
One comment spread that I heard from a lot of
people that are autistic, whether it be young kids or adults,
is that they tend to get very focused on what
they want to do. Did you find yourself focusing and
really being driven that way? Did that create any issues
for you to focus on what you wanted to do?
Yeah? So, and that's kind of like what like writing
has always been like a structual rist for me. It's
always been something that I've been drawn to. Okay, and
a lot of like autistic people's thrives by making her
special interested career, right and so, And obviously, like when
you're a writer, you kind of feel look illusional because
you're like, it's a really hard to get paid even
if you're a good writer, and you're like whine, you're
getting rejected after rejected after rejection. A logical person would say,
maybe don't make this a career. And that's kind of
why I decided that I would go to law school
because I knew a lot of good writers were off
the very good lawyers, and I knew like lawyers were
like a safe income career that people would respect. Right Sure,
Then when I was examining it, I was realizing that
I'd go one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in debt
and then I'd have to apply to take a bar exam,
and there were so many different barriers to making money
even after you have out of the set, yes, right,
And the starting salaries for a lot of lawyers like
fifty thousand dollars.
Right.
So I'm like looking all of that and I'm like
that logically doesn't make sense. Sure, So I started looking
into writing, and I'm like, well, if I have a
blog that makes like stafe fifty dollars, monks, and then
I have a podcast as they eventually launch a podcast
that like makes fifty dollars a month, and if you
diversify your income between book sales, maybe a teaching position
and all of these different revenues, you eventually build something
profitable that it's sustainable because of one source of your
income sales, if you focus.
On your others, right, right, that's a good plan.
So I guess like focusing on writing and like trying
to make it work in a way that was logical
for me. Help if that makes sense? Yeah?
Yeah, it does. So it's been a year since you've
been diagnosed. Yes, do you see that has changed in
that year? What's the difference between last year and now?
I think people are a little bit more understanding but
I also think of it. I'm better at articulating and
explaining it because once you have like a label and
you're like, oh, this is why I do this, right,
you can kind of explain that to other people. And
I actually run a blog about like how I feel
about my diagnosis a year later. Okay, The reason and
the way I feel about it is that I went
to say so many therapists trying to tell ask them
to tell me what was wrong with me. Most people
aren't self aware enough to do that, and they go
through life making other people miserable because they can't address
their own issues. Right, So like having a self awareness
to do that, for one, says a lot about me, absolutely,
and the fact that so many people go through life
and don't do that is actually very concerning. And I
framed it in a way that's like how I feel
about a year later if we all have things that
we struggle with, right, and I have more barriers because
of the way autism is perceived, right, So it's like,
how do I eliminate through those barriers and also like
find a way to communicate and normalize autism as something
that people are familiar with.
What was your mindset did you see yourself getting depressed
at all? Because I know, especially in females, it's well
known that LA or diagnosis when it comes to females,
they can go through so many challenges and get depressed.
Did you go through any of those situations at all?
Yeah, So I struggled with depression and I still do.
And it was actually like in my like psychiatrist notes,
they noticed that, like, my depression was actually causing more
issues than my autism life and so, and a part
of that is it's not how I feel about myself,
it's about how other people feel about me and my autism.
And you're constantly deering with that sure, Whereas like my
family will say, like, can she stop saying autism, and
it's like, okay, but that's the correct diagnosis. Like people
haven't really used the term aspergers in ten years, right,
And most people don't know that, and they just hear
autism and they're like, oh, well, you're saying you can't
do anything, and you can't you're high functioning and it
should be a compliment. But because they don't know about
autism and they don't know what to say, they don't
realize what they're saying. All aroundings, and it's still frustrated
because I do still see myself as achieving. I see
myself as motivated, as capable. But people hear autism and
they assume that I have this view of myself that
I don't right, And so, like, you're trying to build
ways to support yourself and to support the way that
you work, and you know, maybe like a four hour
work week, maybe that's not the best for me, or
like maybe working from home it is easier, and you're
trying to make all of these changes that make your
life better and people see these changes and they're like, oh, well,
maybe you're just crazy or maybe you're just this. And
I find like writing through the stigma of what people
think autism means is more exhausting than actually having Yeah.
I was talking with a lady just yesterday that has
an autistic son. That was the one thing that she
brought up is that people just don't get it. And
my slogan for my podcast is autism Awareness, acceptance, and understanding.
And the reason why I put an understanding is because
I felt that was one word that they've left out
because people can be aware of it. So how do
you do that?
Yeah, that's something usually I write about it and I
try and like it's been very helpful because I have
a lot of people in my life that aren't autistic,
so they kind of say what they observe about my
autism from their lens. So like I'm trying to like
meet people where they are and what they understand about autism,
because when I was diagnosed, I really didn't know anything
about autism, and I had a perception of it that
was wrong. So it's kind of about finding ways to
communicate that in a way that other people understand. Yes,
And in the community, there's a lot of pushback about
using like labels like high functioning or you don't like
autistic and different things like that. And like, as someone
who people don't see as autistic unless I told them
I am autistic, I want to make rooms for the
people who experience more symptoms or people look at and
immediately are, oh, they're autistic. Like I work in a restaurant,
and a lot of people find restaurants over senurating human
if they are autistic. So it's a place with like
a lot of triggers. And we have this one customer
that comes in he orders the same thing every time,
and he's very visibly autistic, like people kind of know
that he has it and it's not something that he
can hide. Right, And the people will like the other service,
they make fun of him, they oh, just it goes
back because and it's like okay, And I told them,
I'm like, can we like say something about him that's
not about his autism, Like can we talk about his
shirt collar or can we identify something about him that's
not that he's autistic? Right? And I know that those
people are going to have a very different experience of
autism than I am, And so it's weird because I
want to make room for their experience and their perception,
but I also don't want to say that stigmatize them further. Right,
And they're like, and that's what a lot of people
feel about functioning labels. Does it stigmatize us further? My
experience of autism is going to be different than his experience,
and I want to make room for that.
Exactly, when you look at yourself and you kind of
self diagnose or self evaluate in what you perceive of yourself,
how have you found that that's different as your friend's
perception of you? Does any of that meet together where
the perception of a reality is the same or do
they have different outlooks than you do When it comes
to yourself, how does all that line up?
Well? I think a lot of it lines up with
society and what we expect people to be as a
functioning member of society, and I put that in areas okay,
And a lot of it comes back to your idea
of work or what it needs to be an adult.
Like is having a job where you work for hours,
you commute an hour, you do whatever your boss says,
and you don't complain, and then you go home and
then you go to the gym? Like, is that your
idea of being an adult? I like part of being
a writer is knowing that your career is going to
look very non traditional, right, you know. I like serving
at a restaurant because I can come home and not
think about it. I work for maybe four or five hours.
I make the same amount of money as somebody who
is been working eight hours with a maid, and I
come home and I write until three am. And that's
my life okay, And for me that works okay, But
but my other people see somebody going to bedit three
and writing all night. They're like, is that healthy? Like
you should have a schedule that functions like everyone else.
But it's also some things that when you're someone who
works nice and you work weekends, and it's kind of
not great to say that, oh, because you work these jobs,
but other people don't want to work your on fususing
member of society, right because we all do things at
this time. So those are some of the biggest criticisms
that I say. So like the way that I function
or the way that my schedule looks like they not
work for someone else, but it works for me. And
one of my biggest priorities right now is focusing on
my writing and trying to build a writing brand that
eventually leads to a book deal or a blog that
brings in consistent money. Okay, one of the problems of
being a writer is you have to have resources to
create things from the ground up. You have to be
able to pay your rent and write without worrying about
your rent being paid if you're producing a podcast, to
be able to edit downd and you have to be
able to book guess and like, there are a lot
of things that would take time, money, and resources that
you don't have so I've kind of had to be
very strategic about where can I get my time and
my resources to still like kind of what can I
do with the least sure, And I did eventually apply
to REST Well, I haven't found out if I've been
accepted yet, but if I were to be accepted, then
it would pay for my housing and it would pay
for my masters, so like it would be a consistent
income that would allow me to focus on writing and
also build a career as a teacher as like a
second form of income. Okay, So I know you have
to get really creative and you have to be able
to say, you know, I don't care how this looks.
I care how this feels, and I care about my
goals and how it fills my future, not what somebody
else wants and see it success.
So with what you're doing now, where do you see
yourself five years from now? What's your short term goals?
What's your long term goals?
So my short term, like school, is I want to
write a novel and get it traditionally published or maybe
build en up following that I can self publish and
be successful and have a consistant readership. So right now
I'm working on a manuscript. It can take time, especially
as you're a new writer trying to figure out and
I want to say I'm a new writer when I'm
a young writer, and it takes a lot of time
to figure out what works for you and you're writing process.
So I want to finish a manuscript and I want
to find an agent. And those are kind of like
two big short trimples. And like, my long term goal
is I want to be a writer that has multiple books.
I eventually want to launch a podcast, Like I would
love to adapt some of my novels into screenplays, and
like very fascinated with the production of media and how
books can go to podcasts can go to audiobooks can
go to screenplays, and how each different format is a
different way of telling a story, but it's still the
story that thrives each format.
In this blog, So is that telling your story or
do you put other things in it that encompasses the world,
so to speak? Or you're part of the world.
Yeah, so it is kind of my part of the world.
I started when I was working at the law firm,
and I was very frustrated about how young people were
being treated in the work force, and I was reading
all of these blogs about how gen Z was ruining
the work force, and I thought that was really funny
because everyone I know has three jobs and they still
can't pay the rest, right. No. I kind of felt
like people weren't representing our concerns and they weren't giving
us opportunities to succeed. So I started the blog for
that reason, and it kind of evolved into like my
autism diagnosis and my examining of what success success would mean,
how work norms kind of play into that. I'm kind
of in a stage right now where I'm like re
examining my brand and trying to decide how I went forward.
Because when you choose to write under your own name
and not a pen name, it can impact your career prospects.
It can impact your family and your friends, right And
like Thearrell and I say, I would have known what
I know now, I might have, but I probably would
have because I like standing by my work. So I'm
trying to decide how I want to move forward. As
far as like the articles that I want to produce,
and as much as I like to talk about autism
and I like to normalize it, there are a lot
of other things that make up my identity that aren't
my off them, So like, I don't want to be
known as the autoustic writer.
Sure if that makes sense, Yeah, absolutely makes sense.
So I'm trying to decide how do I want to
address and when you're like a writer and you're off
the ring about your romantic life or you're writing about
your job life, and all of those things are going
to impact your real life. So I'm trying to find
how And so I recently had a conversation with a
friend where I wrote this like feminist blog about like
how hard stating is, and I realized that it's a writer,
that it's a bondment like writers I with pen names
would have published. But because I'm not using a pen name,
I don't feel comfortable putting that much out of myself
into the world and letting people judge those ideas, right,
So I decided to maybe repurpose it for a novel
where I have a character that's a blogger and it's
the blog that she would have written, so it kind
of gives me some distance. So I'm trying to decide,
you know, like what are articles that like I'm okay
like standing by and saying this is what I believe,
and also articles that I'm okay with attributing to characters
that are a little more controversial.
Sure, have you found a good balance within the autistic world,
the real world and your blog and writing world to
where you can get out there, put some of your
time to each one that needs to be given the time,
and then at the end of the day you sit
back and have that inner piece to where, yeah, this
this is what I want to do.
I wouldn't say that I've found it, but I've found
steps toward to cheating it, Okay. So I recently like
moved back to my royal hometowns, like it kind of
saves a little bit of running here, and like put
more money into my writing and into my time into
my writing, so I'm not so worried about my finances,
and so I'm on a path to achieving that we're
in a couple of two three months, I'll be like
comfortable financially where I don't feel guilty for spending that time, okay.
And I'm also like starting to rethink, like what kind
of blogs do I want to post to? What kind
of blogs going on? And so I'm writing some blogs
about like working in the restaurant industry and what I've
blearned about my mental health through the restaurant industry and
different things that And that's kind of why my writing
became so popular is because so many people feel like
they're overburdened and like there's so many demands that they
can't meet through their jobs, through their finances, and so
we're all kind of asking the same question of like
why is it like this? Why is this hard? So
finding blogs that strike that professional tone in that professional examination,
but also to start quite as of putting myself out
there because sometimes, like when you're having a really bad
mental health day and you write about it, everyone's like
are you okay? Are you good right? And I want
to kind of eliminate some of that where I don't
look unstable.
How do you feel? I mean you say unstable? Do
you feel unstable much? Or is this just something like
anybody else you just had a bad day.
I would say it's just like someone else where you
have a bad day. But because of like the ways
that your emotions go, like when you have like childhood
trauma or where you have like a grief that like
you're just never going to get over it. Sometimes things
trigger it in ways where you're like you always go
back to that plate, and like it's kind of having
to recognize that that place isn't real and those feelings like,
while they're real feelings, they're not an accurate perception of reality.
But I've had to kind of come and realize that
feelings kind of come in waves and you kind of
have to like to sit there and kind of let
them do their own thing and just kind of find
ways to cope where you're okay, was just sitting in
them until they pass.
Sure, that makes sense. Now, let's expand on your blog
a little bit. What led you to start it?
Yeah, So when I started blogging, I was just fired
from my job as a law firm, and I kind
of started just tweeting out like what was going on
in my life because I didn't feel like I had
anyone I could talk to. And that's like in the
tweets that were just really raw and vulnerable, like I
just had this awful fight with my roommate, where the
tweets that really started to get attraction and to get
at tension or to get attention, which ultimately led to
building a following of now almost sixteen thousand followers that
I built over a two years. And so it was
just this experience of like sharing my life with people
and getting that support that was really helpful to me
but also very validating because it reminded me that I
was still this version of myself that I thought I was.
Okay, do you have a community of autistic people that
have reached out to you because you're writing things that
they can relate to and has that created some friendships
or good communication?
It has for some reason. Medium, the site that I
have blogm has a lot of autistic bloggers. A lot
of time we read each other's writing and we like
hid of comment and support each other that way. And
obviously my Twitter has kind of reached out to a
lot of autistic people who have reached out to me.
And there's some people that aren't comfortable letting people know
that they're autistic, right, and they let me know that,
you know, like the fact that I am comfortable doing
that gives them the courage to kind of take on
their everyday life, which is always really good to hear.
Well, the thing is you're writing about your life, You're
writing about things that might happen to you. Your thought process,
all that together creates you. By putting that out there,
you're putting it out there so other people can relate
to it, and just by that, you might be helping
others without knowing you helping others, and then if you
get response back, it helps you evolve to a higher
level as well. So you're helping others, but you're helping
yourself because every day that you get up and write
something or do something, and you look at things a
certain way, and then somebody might say something, you change
your mind on it, you're continually evolving to something that's
hopefully better.
Yeah, and I've had that situins in a lot of
times where there's people who have responded in a way
that was really hurtful or that just didn't understand, and
it is very isolating. And that's kind of like the
biggest thing that I struggle with is I'm still the
same person I was before I was diagnosed, but now
that I am diagnosed, people see that. And at one point,
like someone has said, you know, like sometimes I wish
you would write less about your autism because I don't
want them to see your autism. I want them to
see you. But like I am still me and it's
something that you just like want to scheme as people.
Yeah, did you once you got your your writing out
there and your blogs and your tweets and everything, did
you start getting people that kind of followed you, that
that was kind of going the same path as you
were and they were feeling your same struggles.
Yeah. I did. And that's kind of why I realized
I was hitting on so many different niches because obviously
I was working in a restaurant at the time, and
it was during COVID where we were really examining employment
and why we work and what our work should expect
from us and what we should expect from work, so
and everyone is feeling burnt out and exhausted, and I
realized that I hit so many different niches. And that's
not even meaning to like it was almost like unintentional,
but I kind of wish it was intentional.
Yeah, Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I think I think you're
doing good. You know, I mean considering considering what you
have to take and evolve to what you want to
evolve to, and considering what you have to put up
with to get where you want to be. And then
the misinformation that people have about what autism is. You know,
it's a challenge every day for you, but you seem
to be handling it very well.
Yeah, it's actually I had a conversation with my therapist
about it, and she kind of put it in the
sense of you've just got to focus on eliminating obstacles.
So just take one obstacle. Or maybe if this is
finance focused, when we gone like getting your finances better, right,
and then if it's content, maybe it's down play out
better content or write better content. Right. It's kind of
like just taking it one day at a time, one
step at a time, and just focusing on, Okay, what
can I do today? Right? Right?
So is that what you do? It's kind of like
baby steps. Do you have like a list of things, Okay,
I want to work on this today or I want
to work on this tomorrow or do you have a
list and then you might have it planned out that oh,
I'm going to do this today, but then all of
a sudden you wake up, you're feeling different, and you decide,
I think I'm gonna do number five today instead of
number two. Does that happen a lot?
It's not. As I write things down sometimes it's more
of a mental list. And like the thing about working
in the service industry is like sometimes you work five
base straight. Sometimes you have like four days off the
route fine working, Like how do I like add in
a block this whole week off where I'm just picking
up ships and then I'm going to crash the next
week and pay the fill off that I really needed
to pay. Right some weeks where it's like, Okay, I
know that I want to publish an article to seek,
so like what can I repurpose? And then you write
and you're like this really isn't happening, and you kind
of have to give yourself grace because sometimes things come
up or like things don't always go the way you
want them to, so like you kind of have to
take advantage of what you have when you have it right.
And like when you're writing and you get into a
flow state and you can write like maybe three articles
and one go, you kind of just have to write
the three articles and one go and do it.
Absolutely I get that. So do you have a feeling
of fulfillment or is it you still have some hole
there that you need to kind of fill.
I would say that I have a sense of fulfillment,
but I asked to do so, like it's a whole
because I want to really be taken seriously as now
professional and as a writer and as a person. I
wrote this blog because I, as a man who's fired me,
ended up as a restaurant guest at a people I
was serving about a month ago, and I'm like, she
was looking at me, and he's like, oh, she's just
some angry kids of a blog, like nobody cares what
she thinks. And I'm talking to my therapist about it,
and I'm like, i'm looking for agents. I'm looking for this,
but like she's kind of he'd be right if you
were to say that about me, Like I'm just kidding
a Greek kid with a blog. And my therapist is like, okay,
so own it. You're an angry kid with blogs and
you have fifteen thousand followers and you're just getting started.
So and that's kind of what I have to remind
myself is that writing and publishing is a long game
and careers are a long struggle. So where I am
today is building on where I'm going to be ten
years from now, and you just have to build the
little steps and take fulfillment.
And not that's so correct. There are so many musicians
that I've worked with that have been overnight successes in
about twenty years. So you're spot on there. So if
someone wants to follow you and check out your blogs
and your Twitter, how do they find you?
Yeah? So my blog is on medium dot com. It's
under my name Madison's Author. I'm most active on Twitter.
On my Twitter or handle is like mad III three.
I's three when they avated in high school. That now
I'm running with because I have too many followers to
fix it. I've also wanted threads as Madison's Faster and
on Instagram is madic faster.
So all right, good, Now you covered a lot of things.
Is there anything that you'd like to leave the people
that are listening to your story with something that you
just want to tell them? You know, if you're standing
in front of one hundred people right now, what would
you want to put across to them.
I think the biggest thing about autism is obviously understanding,
and it's also a lack of resources. And I think
people are sitting there and you're seeing autistic people, and
you're seeing how to stick people struggle and you're like, well,
I'm struggling with this too, Like what And I think, like,
we're all struggling, and we all deserve help, and we
all deserve to address our problems so that we're not
continually projecting to want other people. So, like, I think
it's mostly just a self response facility of knowing that
you deserve help and knowing that you can ask for
help and being able to access that help. I think
those are the most important things that obviously we need
to do, but we also need to fix so that
it's easier to do.
Yeah, that's great, that's well put, well put. Well again,
thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it.
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Absolutely, it's been my pleasure. Thanks for taking the time
out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we
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