Giant Bombcast 06/23/2015 (Premium)

Mmm, hello everyone, It's Tuesday, June the uh good start? What day is it again? Twenty three June twenty third, twenty fifteen. We're back in San Francisco. E three is over. It's the Giant Bomb cast. Yes. E three is over. Ye forever? Really no, no, no, no. For a year. You know, I didn't joy duty. I didn't actually think to look on the way out for that big banner that said like June something through something else. I don't think. I don't think one of those those up in the past couple of years. Yeah, I didn't see one either. It was like, here are the dates for next year's shows. Jeff Jeff Keeley tweeted, the dates are real. They Yeah, it's happening. I heard it's the same week as g DC and Packs East good call. Wait oh wait, strong choice, Which which trade show would you cast your lot with? Oh? G DC's local if you if you had to pick between all three of those three? Really? Yeah? Yeah? Can we move the show? But can we move if we move the packs rumble to E three because that's that's the thing I really like. Yes, so it'll have its own booth, okay, just for for one hour out of e three, there will be a rumble and then it'll just sit empty for the other two days and all right then eight three, yeah, all right, just glass bottles broken everywhere. Yeah, if we're done with those, we'll see I'm Brad Shoemaker. Jeff Gersma is here, I am here, Dan Record is here, Danny O'Dwyer is here. It's will slow day of the office. Yeah, it might as well creep on it. I was looking on the game spot side. We published a total of zero videos today unloading the truck. That's what it's like day Monday, you know, Monday back truck. Truck ain't gonna unload itself. Yeah, Jason and Drew are reassembling the studio and couches and all that other stuff. So yeah, they're they're down, they're doing that. Well. We did end up recording a Batman quick look, yes, which I should should be out. It'll be up by the time you should hear this for a bit. Yeah, by the time you hear this. Yeah, cool. Do you guys have to go with the whole Oh? Do we buy a couch when we get down there? Did we ship the couch thing? It's not the weirdest thing that's a really weird because yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, okay, well are we gonna use this couch again? I mean we could buy one and just leave it there because who cares when you're dealing with these weird budgets. It's just like at some point, you know, the two hundred dollars for some I keya couch, like who cares? But yeah, but free couch. Yeah, but free couch. And yeah, we brought our own stuff in the end, brought it all back. Where'd you guys fall on the We ended up bringing we so we have like three of the same time you know, not lobby table that it like pulls up and it's like a it like you can get the keyboard us. We have like three of those because we've done so many things. And their Ikea that we just we keep buying them in places and they're shipping them back. We've got too many of them. So we brought everything down. I think with you guys, it was it was a case of just yeah, load up the truck and it was mostly PC's and stuff, like we two PCs broke on the way, or at least we knew they broken when we plugged them in on the other side, you know, oh yeah, yeah, Josh's one straight or blew up and the transformer went at one stage. And so at the end of day one, everyone was rendering all like on the Monday, I guess everyone was rendering all our of our video at the same time, and it had like tripped to switch because there was just so much parer feeding into the computers. That's the big hardware failure. I don't remember what year it was, but one year we were in some weird geodesic dome on the show floor and the floor of it was all rubber and for something about like we were constantly shocking each other everywhere we stepped. And then basically anytime anyone plugged any FireWire device into a PC and up the PC because there was just enough static or whatever, that was just fucking destroying shit left right. So finally they were like, okay, everyone stopped plugging shit into other shit. That's the new rule for E three, which like every time that makes it hard to every time the port died, yeah it was. It was blowing out FireWire ports all over the plus, so it was that was a good one. Plus I was getting shocked every three minutes in there. It was just and there we were like giving away a car or something like what it was. There was a car that was part of the booth. It was like you could win this car and also branded properly. Yeah, I think so. By the end of it, they were like they were gonna put a TV in a game cube in the back of West Coast Customs Exactly. It's a big orange car with a G on it. Yeah, who wants it? No one? No one handle the handle on top? Yeah right yeah. The old show floor fish bowl, stupid man. So many people just walking up and wrapping on the glass as you're fucking trying to because that was our work room. That wasn't just like where a show happened. It was like every editor who went out and saw games had to come back there and sit there and right in there. Was it super hot in this yes? Yes, it was like a terrible idea they were there were years where so at some point someone like contacted Red Bull and said like, hey, you should send us a bunch of Red Bull and they did. They send us like a red Bull like big giant can cooler thing yea, and a ton of cans of Red Bull. So there were cases and cases of it at E three one year because of that, and then there was nothing else to drink, and it was a zillion degrees. So I was like, well, I need to drink something, and all there is is red Bull, which is actually making the problem worse. So I just have to keep drinking them. And like I thought, I was gonna fucking die. It was a It was a terrible. It was terrible, Danny. You you didn't have the glass dome thing going on, but you just had kind of open to the elements. I kept walking by and see you talking to Tony huk or whoever, Like, was that distracting or were people fucking with you, like friends that were passing by or anything. I realized it would have been super easy to fuck with you. But yeah, people fuck with you. Don't worry. Like we started immediately and Tim Schaffer around, I'm sorry, dancing in front of my monitor, and I was like, oh, gright, eight three started, I'm safer. You get to pass right, So any random people or anything, hey, look, you know you do enough charity streams, like you guys know, like sitting in front of cameras and talking for a longis of time is difficult, but like we were doing him in like two three hour blocks, like I was sharing the stage with Lucy and Chris from Game Spots, so it wasn't that hard like that was the first day was cool like the one, like one of the one tho, it was cool having kind of funny there, but the sort of weird like byproduct of that happening man that we weren't stretching our two stage situation because obviously, like that second stage was originally done because they thought you guys were gonna write Yes, they assumed that we would want a stage to do any three daytime show, so they made all those decisions back and they couldn't ask me about it technically because the feel was still in flux, and like all the while, like people were saying, no, we need two stages, and people were asking why do we need two stages and they could they couldn't answer why. And then when it all closed and all came together like, well we have a second stage in the booth, and I was like, great, I want nothing to do with it. Did that ever happened to Giant Bomb ever do on the show? No? No, no, No, The daytime stuff, like so many people are doing it. Like the whole reason we started doing nighttime stuff is because everyone was doing daytime stuff and we wanted to have a different type of show, like you know. This year, weirdly enough, I feel like I got the most outreach from people that wanted to do game demos. Yes, and they were like, yeah, we can bring the game and and I just said to respond to but we don't do game like, do not bring your game like, we do not do game demos. If you were looking to directly promote your game and bring a game demo, play it like, then we have nothing for you. You do not want to be on this show. Yeah uh and yeah, so it's it's it's not something that we have ever done, I mean outside of when I was doing it with game Spot, and more people are doing You're right, like this year I felt that like obviously it was kind of funny doing it, which I guess it like it made it. Son of Ours was a bit more condensed. I don't want to know, every game deserves it shared, but like the quality bar was hired this year because we weren't getting in like, you know, it wasn't feeling JPG you weren't filling three days two stages. You were just filling three days one stay. Yeah, exactly, kind of way easier. But then like YouTube had their thing on, Yeah, Twitch, we're somewhere. I did't actually see when they were, I'm guessing somewhere in the seth all. I never saw it. Oh no, no, yeah, they were down if you were if you were staring at the square booth and you hung a right, they were way down there, like past Kanami in the corner or was it the same huge booth they have it like packs, because they usually have a pretty big presence on the pack. I think it was similar. I don't know. I wasn't never over there unless there was no real reason to go over there. And the spot's pretty bad though. It is there that thing at E three where like people just like they book a spot because that pay Day booth on the insides been there for about three years. Yeah, then when you walk in, that game was out that week too, and it was like here play pay Day's Like no, I was like three years in a row. You guys are still there. Yeah, I think you know. I think Payday does all right? Yeah, probably, it's apparently it makes VR Company buying money right, yeah, wown so they bought VR Company with it. Yeah, yeah, but yes, you definitely get grandfathered into your spot. So like the year that Konami just had a big black box with nothing in it was them saying like, we don't have anything to show it all this year, but we might someday, so we have to keep paying for this space otherwise worth the back of the line. Well, they had a whole mother base this time because of that. Yeah, and they were in a different spot. Yeah, So it seemed like they were in a smaller space this year, even though they actually built a little mother base kind of you know, sea faring thing or whatever it was. They bought a goat attached to a balloon and that hanging from the ceiling. Yeah, like that. And so so they finally said like, ah, we don't need all this space because we're done making video games. This is the last row for us. Is there any Brazilian soccer players part of that booth? I don't think they really had. I think there was a like PS poster on the outside of calling as what do you call it pez? I'm not gonna call it pezz is something else? Like you open it up and get the dispenser. Okay, at least call it a pro evo that I can that I can buy. Okay, what if I call it winning eleven? If you if you can, if you can, you know what, if you can give me a messy Pezz dispenser, then we might be able to talk any Any Pezz dispenser is a messy Pezz dispenser if you do it right, I guess that's true. He's on the wrong game, man, that's FIFA. Oh is he really? Yeah? Okay, no, who does who does? Who does? Pez have? Brazilian dude forget his name, broke his back in the World Cup? Kind of pale? Sure, yeah, I got ple, We got weird, just him talking for twenty minutes. I gotta show up anywhere, man, I like Pale. But that was that was getting a bit weird there, yea. And there was a part where he stood up and said eighteen minutes until Star Wars battle Front was where I thought it got strange. But you know, God, yeah that did happen. It was like a lower third or they knew better than to run them during the Pale interview, But during every other clip, I was like, hey, think this like Minions mobile game demos, a sack of shit, don't worry twenty three minutes until Star Wars battle Front. And then so at the end of the show, I ended up putting on Twitter like two hundred and twenty one. It was something we joked about doing as a lower third during our show, and I just wrote it on Twitter two hundred like it was a countdown to the release date of the game, all right, And it was like right after the show floor closed, and then like EAPR and the official EA Star Wars account and all these other things retweeted it as if I was saying, I'm super pulled for battle Front. Count down the fucking minutes over here. It's like, No, your press conference was fucking stupid and uh and that's hilarious now, I mean, Battlefront looks totally fine. I'm not like saying one way or the other. There it was. I played it. It was it was neat, but it was funny to see like that, like people going, yeah, fucking he's into it. He's feeling it. Sincere Jefferson like two things. I love Battlefield and Star Wars. Uh No, I don't know that. I played the two player co op and and that seems cool and and and whatever. But it was, Yeah, it was funny to see them latch onto it. Naymeyer that's the name. Yeah, never heard of him. What's I tell you you don't like soccer? That's okay? Who's is David Beckham place? I don't hate it? Is he he's starting his own soccer team and wow is he still in them to start one? Like what league would that even be in? Because they just starting like they're equivalent of the Harlem Globe Trotters. And he's just gonna go around and bend it for people. Yeah, he's gonna just get all his buddies. I understand he's quite good bending it. He is. He can bend us like himself. Yeah. MLS is still thing right, Yeah sure, yeah, yeah. It's being in America. Yeah. San Francisco have a team. No San Jose Earthquakes, which, by the way, perhaps the most ill fated name of the team. Yeah. I don't know thought something. I don't think they're actually the first team in the area to be referred to as the Quakes. I like the Quakes, Yeah, isn't is in the La Galaxy one. I think alex Is it MLS Team Extreme, Rayal salt Lake, Kansas City or team was Yeah, it took me a second to parse that one. What is Rayal? I thought Yale was a city somewhere in Spain, and that's why I was called that, like Yale and Madrid. Raal still see that. No, it's it's just Spanish for team or something or club fucking whatever. Yeah, Rayal salt Lake. I didn't think there were a lot of Spanish speaking populist and don't think No, I don't think so either. Man. Kansas City's team was the Whiz. It always sounded super stupid. It used to be the Wizards. I want to say, that's kind of stupid. I can get into that. Then we became the Casey Whiz. Great, that's just squirts some Casey Whiz on this, on this rack of ribs and go to town Seattle. Sounders all right, I don't Yeah, sounders or they make sound? What is it sound? Or a boat actually makes more sense? Yeah? Probably I don't because there's the Pouget sound. That's the thing in Seattle. Is sound a bay? It's Puget sound basically, like is that is that a bay? Probably? I don't know. If it's an area, it's a water, it's body of waters. Yeah, yeah, we can tell you that much. We're gonna be there for these soon soon, soon month August. Is it August? I don't know, is it? Packs planning begins right now, man, games calm planning begins for me? What is that that start of August? Second week? I think first me, I talked to some of the developers. I was publisher side. People were like, yeah, I don't know if we're even gonna go did I Did I see that? So he is not going Yeah, I think they're not doing anything major there. Yeah, Mike, Microsoft is lining up games for that thing for whatever reason, and Remedy gonna be there with Yes, they've been saying for a very long time, the quantum break and then it was adown and see cool indeed all right, yeah, so who we got some bunched up yeah, e three impressions that we didn't get out during the show. Typically the show is like, h now what but yeah, the night nighttime shows ended up being so busy that we didn't even talk about half the stuff we saw. Yeah on the last day. Yeah, yeah, so here we are, Jeff, do you want to start do you have stuff? I mean, I just you know kind of like, well we went and saw I you know, there's just some stuff that are just highlights and I know we covered, but like stuff that I think is maybe like probably worth talking about again, all right, Like I cannot. I feel like it was a good show overall. Like I look at most of the lineups and I feel like there's at least one game at most publishers that I go like, yeah, no, I'm interested in seeing more of that that could be maybe namcos the exception there. They got Our Souls three, so I'm covered there. Yeah. Yeah, but you know, I got some stuff. I was kind of waiting for the tech and seven announcement that it still hasn't happened her Home for Us or whatever it is. But yeah, so but let's see I mean Super Mario Maker. Yeah, yeah, you know that. That's that's a huge one for me. Like just being able to mess around with the creation tools and kind of see what they're building, how they're letting people build it. The extent to which they're letting people build it stands out really nice. Just like a really intuitive editor for so far, or like a fun editor, I guess did you use it much? I used that probably more than I played the game itself. Yeah, But it's like stuff like you you know, you put the question mark block down, then you grab a coin and drag it into the question mark block, or you grab a fucking enemy or something horrible and put it in there so when you hit it, nasty shit comes out. You know, this is like just it's it's very it's things that you I've never seen in the real games. They're kind of letting you do now. And there's some fun stuff with that that I think is pretty cool. And this stuff like you know, like if you grab like, let's say, a bullet bill launcher and then grab it and shake it around a lot, it turns red, making it a heat seeking bullet bill. But then you can also drag shit into that, so you can make it soa shoots coins. I made it soa shot fish, and then it was a lava level, so the fish would land of the lava and then they came out on fire and they would kill you even harder. Well I guess actually they would always kind of kill you. And then you could there were wings that you could drag onto just about anything, so you could have a flying swamp or you there's all kinds of just flying bloopers flying in there. Just give them mushroom to anything and it gets big. Yeah. Yeah, So like like that element of it. You know, it's it's not always the most intuitive thing in the world, but seems like, you know, like there's a logic to it. You'll pick up and like okay, no this, okay, I see how this makes sense. I think it's so much easier to grasp than something like you know, I've always liked the idea of a little big planet a lot, and there's a lot you can do with it, like people were making working calculators and stuff with that. But there are so many tutorials you have to watch and so many weird little things you have to remember, whereas there was really no tutorial stuff and Mario Maker it's just a matter of but they'll have something in there. They'll probably have something, but like us just picking it up and going into that edit mode. I thought it was pretty easy and intuitive enough once you learn just kind of the shaking thing. I think a lot of it, Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of it is just because it's a tile based system, whereas a little big planet, you know, like there's a grid involved, but not in the same way, and so just kind of the inherent understanding of like, Okay, on this tile, I can put off thing, and this is how long the spacing is. Like like being able to understand that element of it, I think is what makes it easier to grasp. And you're working with physics that you're like very familiar with from decades of play, you know, and it's so easy to switch between like Mario World and three and one and everything, Like I love that stuff. Yeah, it was really cool. I actually went back and played it again after we had our appointment. I went back there on the third day and I was like, I kind of want to mess around with that some more. Yeah, I think the Nintendo World Championship stuff really sold a bunch of people on it. I was seeing some of the crazy levels. Yeah, yeah, it was like it almost was like cat Mario style stuff where it was just like ridiculous levels. They were kind of out together and they had an automatic Mario level and there's a sample level where you just kind of watch it happen and just you know, the machines work together to make Mario get to the end of the level. Yeah, and that's that's clever. Did they show like, because the one thing I'm just worried about, knowing Nintendo and there's sort of their online systems, is did they show like how that stuff will be surfaced market place? It's sort of you know, it seemed like you'll be able to sort by popularity or like difficulty, so that they'll know, like, you know, number of deaths per level and how many people finished it percentages like that, and they'll be able to kind of serve up difficulty stuff that way, I think. Or if there's a really popular user, you can just hop in and see all of his or her levels right there. Yeah. I thought it was cool that you don't have to download them locally to play them. Oh, you can just basically pick it from its trials. It's just like you launch into it and go. Yeah, although you can download it locally if you really like a level and everything. What is that it's stage It's just like a text pad right exactly, Like there's nothing. Yeah, there's there's no reason to like download that stuff. You can just star it and then play it unless you're gonna be offline. So it's just in time on the fly interpreted Mario code exactly. You know, it would be kind of cool. Maybe I just thought, well, a lot of things would be okay, go on, I just thought of this. I don't I don't know if there's maybe some technical reason it wouldn't work, but some kind of like a companion Mario Maker game for three s that let you play the levels that you would downloaded, like maybe not the full featured editor on there or something, but I mean it has a touch screen that could do the editor. There's no reason why that thing couldn't be on the thing, Yes, but at a bare minimum, Like so does any level you make work with any graphics set file set? I mean, because the physics change and he'll have you know, he'll have wall jump abilities or not, or spin jump abilities or not. You can create levels that will not be finishable, so you can subtile set, okay. I mean presumably anything you made using like Mario one or even three should be able to go forward, and three will have the flying, so flight could put you in a situation where yeah, I guess I haven't seen did they show the cave at all for the Mario world? And I would think it's in there, but I haven't seen it. Now I would, I don't actually know, yeah, because I mean Yoshi's in like one or two. I'm sorry what Yoshi? Sorry, I don't I don't know. I don't know about that either. Uh didn't they I feel like they showed Yoshi and they might have. I tend to block out a lot of right, right, Yeah, a lot of Yoshi stuff. Yeah, you actually fell on the floor while I was playing will They were old and you were there for good fifteen minutes. So yeah, I'm really interested to play it as somebody who actually didn't go up playing Mario games like I've've only played them after the fact. Right, So I don't, like, you know, I don't have this like very clear knowledge of the different enemies and what they do and don't do. So I wonder if it's going to be like fucking bedlam for me. I'm like, what's going on? It might be easier because you won't have preconceived notions about what these things should be able to do. So when they come out with wings and three times their size, you're gonna go, ok okay, I'll be like da exactly. Yeah, fucking turn off your mic. You can't talk anymore. All right, you can talk though, What about what if it was Johanna's sisters Maker you guys wait, yeah, oh man, I thought mine gotta end. I just not just edit him out. Oh crap? Uh what else? I mean? You know, like the other Nintendo stuff, Like I think that Zelda game is super lame. Yeah, Like I didn't care for Nintendo's lineup at all other than the Mario Maker stuff. Yeah. Start like we you know, Alex ended up playing Star Fox and that looked kind of weak too. I heard the guy saying it was real difficult to control because of the dual screen situation. Well, it's the sort of thing where like, you know, the tilt controls, like if you're looking at the top screen and watching your radical move around there, like you can get it down, you can aim. But the part where they're like saying like like there I was giving me the devils, like okay, now hold the game pad up so you can kind of see both the same time. Like, no, no one's gonna do that. Four eyes. That's a yeah, no, that that's like the zoomed in view on the game pad. It seems like that seems like a solid three DS game that you know, you can't really get away with with a free floating tablet, you know. I heard some conflicting reports on whether or not you can just play with the pro controller or just turn off that gyroscope of stuff. All. I feel if they do that, that'll be fine. I feel like that happens with every single week you get the game that comes out. I think that game doesn't look great either way. I think if they did it with the pro controller, that's exactly the star Fox I want, it would be better. Like this, like sparse, occasionally shoot stuff occasionally turned me into a chicken I did. I just didn't like Finally, it just looks bored. It was visually really uninspired. Yeah, I think I just liked it because it did look like a Star Fox sixty four to me, and I've just not but not evolved, like it looked a little too much like sixty four. I've just wanted that follow up to sixty four for so long, and they've always done something fucking stupid with that that franchise. So like this actually feels like, Okay, here's that thing that you wanted on GameCube, of like a real sequel to sixty four. I guess. So, Like, the more I think about it, the more like I liked star Fox at the time because it was like a technical marvel and there wasn't really anything like it. But everything they've done with star Fox since then has been pretty uninteresting. I love it. I played through I've played through it once and when like, okay, but that took like, you know what, two hours or something to be I mean, there's the branching paths and stuff like. That's why I went back and play totally. You know, I had no interest in seeing any of that stuff. I liked it quite a bit, but it was very novel back then. That was that was a long time ago. Yeah, it was, yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's like, you know, like flight simulation type stuff on consoles has come a long way. Like, you know, think about when sixty four came, I thought was one generation removed from original star Fox, right, Like the idea of a game you can fly around in three D space at all was still kind of new. They've done a lot of stuff since then. Yeah. As for Zelda, I'm with you on Yeah, I've never been huge on the kind of four swords. The most fun I was picking you fuckers up and throwing you into a pit. Yeah, you know, we we there's a shared life pool in that, so that's actually a terrible idea. But like I had to go to my next appointment and Billy didn't want to play anymore of that game. So, like the people given the down, we're like, oh no, you know what I do. I'm like, yeah, no, I'm gonna throw these fuckers in this bit. Uh. Yeah. The puzzles didn't seem that great, and I was written some stuff recently that said you can't play it with two players. Oh no, well, I mean the puzzles are all built for three. It's yeah, like well four sorts Adventures had some had some things where you could, like I think the dpad or something would like put the four links into formation so you could play solow or whatever. Yeah, but yeah, I guess you can't with this one. Can you play alone? Is the player totem time? The headlines I saw it just said no two players, So I don't know. Maybe it's a one or three. Yeah, I don't know, but yeah, it did not seem great. I'm not huge on multiplayers ALDA in general. That same here, you know, yeah, none of that stuff like the four Swords stuff was like again, it was like novel at the time, but you're like, okay, that's you know, And it was also such a damn hassle to get like that many people together with that many game boys and link cables and stuff like this takes it down a bit by only eating like three three DS's. But it's got online, right, one would assume. I'm pretty sure I saw people say yeah, yeah, probably it has like in game like emo emoji style communication stuff. So that's clearly built for online stuff, like where it's like it's come over here, or link has pom poms and it's the cheering animation. Yeah. Yeah, did you guys see that new Metroid that seems to have set the Internet of flame? They made a new Metroid No, I'm just kidding, a new Metroid Prime no less Wow. Yeah. Do you see the the call the fifteen thousand signature destroy this game? Though I did not see that. Yeah, yeah, that's the best way to get them to make more Metroid games is to ship all over the one they make. Yeah. I find that that sends a very clear message, just not necessarily the message that people think it will. Yeah, So what does that thing. It's a multiplayer focused games. All I know is what they showed in the press because there's the blast Ball part of it. I think it's like three different mini games. I think they have different Kiosi game. I thought so it's like Federation. I thought it was like two different multiplayer games like Focused. I assumed. I assumed the blast Ball or whatever it was just a side thing on the main campaign. I don't think there is. I think I think it is a side but the other thing is still a multiplayer like co op Ford Motors. I don't know. I'm not sure exactly what that is, but you know, like it's not a it's not a Metroid adventure, which okay, fine, like they if if if they were going to have they shouldn't make another Metroid Prime game. Like people are fucking crazy. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I mean, I mean, I'm with a proper Metroid Prime. No, this should not make a Metroid Prime. I think free is a good number for anything they made. Those they're done with that. They should go back to making real Metroid games right somewhere last week that they do not sell. Yes, I also read are not they are not big games and itcdotally, and itcdotally. I read that the Donkey Kong, like the last Donkey Hoong game or made, not the last one, but the one on the we sold more than all the Metroid Prime games put together. Yeah, and so you know that. Yeah, and Metroid you know, it's never been the biggest franchise in Japan. Like even getting those games made it was kind of an uphill climb because you know, you'd go back to Japan and they be like, Metroid what so then why do you Yeah, yeah, we'll make a kidic Rius. Well rat it two Ice Climbers two is coming, get out of here. So then why you like, use if the name has no cache, then why make this game be a Metroid Prime game? Like, well would they make it otherwise? Yeah? Yeah, and it's gonna sell less. Yeah, maybe it was just a quick thing that they could make that would have the Metroid name on it and whatever, like yeah, I agree, it's driving into the ground. But I kind of felt that way about the Metroid Prime games too, So it's sort of like, I don't haven't even my rage was spent on those. How about we compromise and we do Metroid Prime games on the WU and traditional Metroid games on three DS, how but they just make traditional, like good Metroid games. I would also accept that, or just a good Metroid game in general, like stop this like half Step of like first person Shooter, that's still the Metroid still kind of metal. That so good about it? Like yeah, I was like it was cool that they were able to put as much Metroid as they could into those games, But at some point you're like, Okay, these don't control the way I want to shoot it at to control well enough, and those I mean elements to those games that just weren't that great. Sure, I thought I thought it was a good hybrid when it came out. I just think they were diminishing returns on each sequel, you know, like at a point you've played that, yeah, and I don't need to play more and more of it. Didn't you get your best Metroid game in years in Axiom Verge? Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. I guess maybe that's the thing is like now everyone is making one of those, you know, like that style of game comes out time and time again. Nowadays, Axiom is one of the few that like felt like a Metroid game, though, like you know, you look at like Orion the Blind Forest and yeah it's got the most or whatever. But like axiom Verge looked and felt like and sounded like a Metroid game. Yeah, good point, Danny. Maybe maybe there's some merit to this, to this theory that they were moving all their A teams over to like in X development at this point, like looking at looking at that lineup. You know, hey, man, Mario Tennis, I'm super jazzed by Mario Tennis. I can't tell you. I just want to watch that. I just want to watch the intro and see how good. If that's any good or not, the rest of it I could take or leave, but the intro FMV needs to be at least twelve minutes long this time. Yeah, and the blooper reel, Yeah, gotta be a good blooper waiting does Mayer Tennis? I haven't kind of watched it on UPF last weeks. Yeah, the intro is real stupid, And then they made a fake like Cannonball Run style blooper reel. Verkay, of the intro. We're at the end of every shot, a boom mic lowers into the frame like the actually a set just like Wall Luigi running into frame and falling over, people cracking up, and then the boom mic drops down every time. A pretty good time, pretty good. It was like, what who made this? Why? Like it's I know, it's great. You shouldn't, yea. Some more games should have this, should have them like Mario going to these bleeds right here, you know, just like fucking go all the way with him, I guess. But was that a GameCube? Yes? Yeah, yeah yeah. Watch watch the intro video. It's like six minutes long. Don't play it. I mean, what would everone? But you don't need to play it. Just watch the intro video and then the blooper reel. That console has become my like local co op machines, So like any I'll take it. I'll take anything that we used. Dug that bad boy. We're one step closer to another Stiker's charge. Then I'm a I'm a hobby boy. But yeah, I don't know. Dan and I went and saw Black Ops three. I think that was something we didn't get around to talk about. Played like three multiplayer matches that watched a longer version of the campaign demo thing they showed the press conference. Yeah, I'm surprised. They usually with the multiplayer stuff they show like a new mode or something, but I think we just did kill confirmed domination and headquarters. No, we did the headquarters. Oh you're right, You're right right. It wasn't headquarters. It's how is it point? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah. I think the core crux of that thing is like a not a great idea of like picking a character that then has a unique ability, and like I tried three different characters and got three different abilities and they all seemed dumb. Yeah, and it seems like you can get a gun or whatever and it has seven shots, but you can get killed immediately and then you have to build it all back up, right. It's like I barely got to use that. Yeah. Like one of the Lady's abilities is like it's a fucking really strong pistol you get seven shots of, but also it expires if you don't fire the shots, it'll eventually go away on its own. So how do you get it? Is it just like a thirty second thing? So it's a it's a timer, but then the timer reduces if you are killing people, right, and then you you hit L one and R one to call it out, and so like there's another lady that has a bow that was not great. The robot has a fucking chain gun and the stuff that was it just felt like it was getting in the way, Like no part of it felt like it was adding anything to the game. Well, all three of those sound like weapons that are hard to hit things with. Do they just get more damage? Or when I had the pistol, with the pistols like one shot, yeah be cross as well, Yeah you would think, but yeah I don't. I don't. I don't know why I don't think that just it doesnt. It did not present itself as like this is a big change or a meaningful difference. It was just like here's this thing you pop every so often, and you could take it or leave it, like I was doing better with a weapon I had before. Thanks. But the thing I didn't like was like it we're venturing a little too far into like crisis territory, I think with this one. Like I always like Call of Duty multiplayer because it felt like this is modern military, you know, cool you know, normal guns and stuff like that, because I don't really get into crisis that much, or the super futuristic sci fi shoot or stuff like I like Halo, but that's so far in the sci fi. I think that's a space game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, warfare that's not trying to space. The difference, you know, advanced warfare I thought was fine because outside of the exo suits and like some you know, high tech guns or whatever, you know, it felt like, Okay, this maps in San Francisco and we're just some dudes with crazy robot skeletons on like this one. It feels like you're shooting robots and there's like nanob's and stuff and if anything that true that that press conference demo I thought was pretty bad. Oh yeah, at the Sony press conference, Like looking at the longer version, like you start to see stuff like it looks like there's like a shared hud, like you know, like you see enemies will have elements over their heads in the world, you know, kind of r things were just like, oh, that's a guy, that's another guy. All of we're just guys. It's like we're marking dudes for you to shoot. And it just looks like a big open arena with kind of like objectives to complete or something. But enemies just keep swarming in, which is like everyone's least favorite thing about Call of Dude. But you can pick people up if they get knocked down because it's co op now, and I just you know, like it didn't it didn't seem that interesting. But the thing about the multiplayer is like not knowing anything about how this game controlled, other than having a rough idea of like there's some wall running in it. The first thing I did was run up boost jump over a wall, like, see a wall alongside me, direct myself over to it. So I'm running along the wall. Then a guy walked around the corner and I shot him and killed him and then landed, and I was like the very first thing I did after grabbing the control, And I was like, Okay, this gives all right, because you were super worried about that after Advanced Warfare because you liked that so well. Yes, But the other thing is I also like keep kept clicking in the left stick trying to boost jump and like get places more quickly and doesn't work like that. Uh, And so that is disappointing. I mean, I guess like they got to make their changes and stuff, like they have their take on movement and stuff with the wall running with the it's the boot jump works on it's like a jump jet thing with a limited meter space. Yeah, so it's just like you hold it down. Yeah, you hold it down out you you double tap jump and hold it on the second tap and then you kind of a little bit and it retart is pretty quick around and then their perks and said you can get so that refills fast and like you you know, you can do a running slide and that'll drain the meter two for like a boosted and kind of slide. It was like tribes, you know a little ya. I noticed too they're doing the tray arch thing to where they've kind of got the gore again to where I was seeing like legs and arms and staid been blown up, which that was very much a tray arch thing. I remember like some controversy even of them doing it in a World at War. Well World War had the flamethrower stuff that was just like there was like cool shit like burning people. Yeah yeah, but yeah, Infinity Ward and I don't think there was any like dismemberment and advanced warfare work there. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, this one. I saw some gore in this. I don't have time to look at the bodies, right. I moved off to activisions, been sitting on that dismemberment tech from Soldier of Fortune all these years exactly finally the time to wheel it out, dust it off. But yeah, I don't know, like it it didn't seem to differentiate itself, like or I mean, it has some of the advanced warfare stuff, but not all of it, I guess, and some slightly different stuff that neither neither here nor there. I guess. I thought some of that stuff they showed to the campaign, like the environment just looked super drab. You know, I did not look that interesting, whereas I thought the early looks at advanced warfare and stuff like you know that the Golden Gate level and everything, like a lot of those campaign levels just visually look awesome. Yeah, you know, Kevin Spacey's party and stuff like that. There's there's some stuff in an advanced warfare that, like at Christmas time I showed my dad because I was like, bad, look at what video games look like now? Like that was the show piece, you know, and I haven't done that with the Call of Duty game in years, right, Yeah, and this one, you know, it just it. I guess they should change the campaign in dramatic ways, right, because it kind of who cares about Call of duty campaigns, but like they've always been like a cinematic show piece. Then there's like elements to them that you look at and go, fuck, that's crazy. Whereas this, like their lead asset was this video of four people running around shooting people, and you're like, fucking who cares? Especially with Black Ops because this was a sort of the mini series. It kind of was ad it, I don't know, had the rights to go a bit crazier. Yeah, well two was the one that did all the stuff with the branching, right, Yeah, I wonder if the strategy view, like the strategic well that's all that stuff. I mean, whether it was successful or not. They try st and it's I guess like from a story perspective, I want to know if they're going to tie it to the rest of the Black Ops games, because they've they've gone far enough in the future. Now, Like it was ridiculous in Black Ops two when you're like, oh, Frank Woods is here, uh, and he's fucking out of his mind, but no he's not. Uh, And and that was pretty nuts the way they tied all that to the events of the first game. But now like going even further on that. No one's gonna go like what, let's see what section looks like as an old man, like, no one cares. So yeah, I don't know, like it's it's it seems like a real hard sell this year. And I say that as someone who really enjoyed advanced warfare, like you know, and there are elements of this multiplayer that feel fun, but like too much like the other hero character stuff seems crazy lame. Was like, why would this, why would you do this? This isn't It didn't work for me at all. It seems like they added that hero character thing like in lieu of any big changes to the load out system. Yeah, it gives me the pick ten. It's the same wild Cards, It's a lot of the same. You know, the gear looks roughly the same. Yeah, Yeah, I don't know, man, it's I was. I was not blown away by any of that Call of Duty Black Ops three. I don't know, man, totally. Yeah, I don't know. Manikes I've got something that we saw, but I've liked cover. Okay, the biggest of bangers. Okay, dashboard updates, dashboard update. You saw its big banger? Are you? Are you genuinely excited? Oh yeah, I love it. Di spoard update. Yeah, web design. Yeah, I feel like such a nerd that interface updates are one of the most exciting things about games. Yeah, we went and saw the that new Xbox One UI. We did up close. Yeah uh, and that thing looks about a thousand times better than what's in there now as far as I'm concerned, it looks like it makes me want to use that console. So what's it looked like? It looks like Windows ten. Okay, it looks like it. Specifically, it looks like the Windows ten Xbox app. There's a set of icons on the left side of the screen. They will correspond to like games store, you know, set messages, friends and they so they it's probably important to note they are calling that the guide. Oh so in the same way that you have a guide on the three sixty that popped up, Like I think that's what you're supposed to think about it in game, you can actually, yeah, when you hit the button, I guess when you hit the button, it'll slide out from the left. I think it's so you double tap the Xbox. But okay, yeah, it's the replacement for the for the little four way like step shot this record that because the thing that they have now, hitting Xbox once we'll still take it home screen, but hitting it double tapping it, it'll it slides it out over top of the game. Yeah, and they are pulling in messages and friends data, I guess more regularly so you won't have to wait as long and you can call it up right there, and that seems better. Yeah. The game page has been redone to be kind of a vertically scrolling list of everything on your system or everything you play it. I'm not sure which, but it looked like it was arranged in like a most recent yeah. Yeah, so it was like, you know, at that point, it was like launch game, if you have friends playing it, it'll list it right there. And then there was like a thing of like hey, recent news, like they were making a big deal, like and publishers can post like recent news about the game right to the screen too, and it's like every single one was like, there's DLC out, which one of them was like, out, there's a patch of ailable. Yeah. They said like it could be used for patch notes and stuff, which I wish that like patch notes should be mandatory first stuff, like even on PS four where they have the built in functionality for patch notes, Like a lot of time it's just says like fixed bugs, like they should have to they should have to enumerate. I want, I want a proper change log. Yeah, but yeah, I can't. I can't extress how much just having that guide slide out over top of the game and being able to see that stuff very quickly just kind of is it easier to get to things? Yes, because I feel like the only reason Connect is anyway useful is because this looks like, finally the first full redesign where they know Connect is no longer a reliable thing that they can build around. Did they say if the voice commands would still work? I think that, Yeah, I think so. I'm surely they do not built into this actually so the things on the phone. Yeah, so theoretically it will become more capable. Also, did you notice, uh, did you notice how how aggressively they wanted to make sure we understood that the game does not snap anymore? When you pop out the guide with the messages and the friends and stuff, You're like, notice the game window does not resize. It stays full screen. So what happened? So it just means you can't see upon the Now that's that's a fucking toss up on that. I guess. I guess, well, you know, like on the PS four you're going straight back to the full UI. You're not seeing the game there either, But I don't just it's like, if that's the's the thing, I don't, I don't care. I don't need to see the game. If I'm doing other stuff like you can, they can take me out of that. It's fine for me. It was just how fast it happened, you know, Yeah, yes, it is very fast. And that seemed to be the focus, is that they're trying to speed up a lot of the interactions with the machine just across the board. So did they say, are you still gonna be able to snap like I want to? Watching the side? You can snap, it's just not mandatory like it used to be. Does it shrink the screen down? If I'm watching, yeah, that Hulu or some snapping stuff for real, It'll okay, snap for real? So we can still do achievements and all that stuff on the side. And they didn't specifically do achievements, but one, yeah, one would assume you can still snap all that bullshit if you hate yourself and like to see small games. I did achievement. Think on occasion, get an iPad or something. Set it there, watch wrestling on the iPad. It's a good boy smart glass. Yeah, I think there's an app. We're gonna watch the wrestling an iPad. Unfortunately, just pay attention to whatever you're doing, don't. I don't understand the obsession with doing two things at once time never snap. I don't know. If you really truly want to do two things at once, then you should take that and stream it to your Windows ten PC with two monitors. There you go and then play games on that while having your wrestling on your second monitor. All right, really saturate that network. I did that. I did some of that, not specifically with watching wrestling any other window, but streaming games. But I streamed stuff because I'm running Windows ten at home, so they they I added all that functionality. It was kind of in there as a test. It's like there was a test streaming button before that you could kind of send them like, hey, here's how's this this is working? But now when I got home, they had rolled out the ability to actually do it all. It works. Yeah, it's video, it has artifacts you see MPEG compression and stuff like that. So I downloaded Geometry Wars the first one. Yeah, because all that stuff, well not all that the stuff, but the whatever handful of games, the backwards coats games, games that are that are in there. Yeah. I fucking opted out of the preview program right before we left through three? Why did I do that? This weekend? On it? And wait, they've already rolled it out for some of them. It came out. It came out like the day they announced it. The price count. Yeah, if your program. I got Jam three Wars and meat Boy and it's a preview program thing. Yeah, okay, I got like Banjo Kazooi yeah, and Peck Refueled Kids. Yeah. Yeah, Wait can you buy already on there? Well, you buy there's no three sixty store on Xbox one yet. You can go buy it from the website and then get it, or on a three sixty you're right right, that's or you can or if you have if for the disc based games, you can put a disc in and play Mass Effect one if you want. That's a funny. I played. I played meat Boy on PS four yeah, at E three, So it's kind of funny that they're just gonna go, oh, yeah, you already bought it on three sixty. I guess you're going, yeah, it's like their own weird cross By or something. That's. Yeah, I'm really excited about actually getting access to my XBLA catalog again, Like I yeah, that sucked like two years ago. But there's no guarantee that all that stuff's gonna be enabled. It's so it's it's at the discretion of each publishers. Sensible Soccer won't be like the big ones. So it's crazy to me. It's something I mean, whatever, it's not like you guys know any better than I do. But what the like the business terms, what the tracks were of publishing games on the Xbox three sixty that allows publishers to disallow the backwards compatibility here, you know, I think it's they probably just don't want to force people into anything that they're not comfortable with. It's a it's a new terms. They probably you know, said the right thing to do was to go get approval. I guess so, but like, uh, and then the connect games won't work. Yeah, well that's understandable. That sounds like they told us in that meeting that that was just a huge like like translating hearing, like the two connects, like the interfaces are so different that it was super hard to do. But what about totemball for the Xbox Live Vision camera that work? It's a great question. I'll get back to on that. I'm gonna play Uno. Wait, okay, I'm gonna come back. It was not. It was not on the preview list and I don't think it's on the initial list for the Fall either. But yeah, that backwards compatibility stuff seems insane. Yes, yeah, so it's crazy. Off side of it seems really hard. The business end of things seem like Microsoft wanted to do a big PR thing and see if publishers say yes or not. So that's I mean, that's where it kind of breaks down and gets scary because, like, especially with HD remasters, seeing such a big business these days, right, Like, there are plenty of publishers with plenty of decent business reasons to say no to that ship. And that sucks. So how does it work? If you own the disc, I'm put it in your Xbox One. It will download something. Okay, I don't think it downloads the full game content. It might install you know, it might be a hybrid of downloading some stuff but installing the rest of the disc. I'm not actually sure about executable. It's just but it's just like an Xbox One game. It will it will put the entire game on the hard drive and use the disc as a key to say yes, I own this, yeah, and it will launch out of your library and then and then what it's doing is it's running a full virtual machine that is kind of like, you know, replicating the hardware of the three sixty from the ground up. If you hit start and back, it brings up the existing Xbox three sixty in game interface, like every time every time you launch a game, you see the full boot splash screen of an Xbox three sixty as if it's booting the console. This is Will this be region free? I don't know, because otherwise it's a real sucky situation from my back catalog. Well, the Xbox One is region free, so you could always log into your well I don't know about the discs, but you know your digital stuff and you would you would probably be able to log into your UK account. That should hopefully work and work. Do you think they'll sell old games now? Though? I think they would add a three sixty section of the store for games on demand that are compatible and stuff like that, like they might as well nothing stopping them. Yeah, and then there are plenty of They're gonna be cases where like when a publishers are releasing a sequel, they'll have the ability to say, like, and we'll give you the three sixty version of blah blah blah, like Fallout is that you'll get fall Out three for three sixty when you buy fall Out four. Really, yeah, they've already said yeah, yeah, and was it Rainbow six will come with Rainbow six Vegas? Yeah, yeah, that's cool. When when they first then asked that they I didn't hear Vegas. I thought that's real, that would be real. Aware. Yeah, So they'll be opportunities for publishers to kind of leverage their old shit that way if they want. But yeah, I just you know, like, you know, does EA want to maintain the Burnout Paradise servers for another five years? Or do they are they just hoping that the player account goes low enough that they can finally like feel okay about shutting it down or did they already shut it down? What would happened to that game? I mean it would still it's still there's still a huge offline portion of that game. But the multiplayer is so key and so awesome that like the weird challenges that you can complete and stuff. Yeah, that stuff is so good. So like at some point like that you run the business and like, you know, how much money is it left? Is there left to be made on some of those old games for those publishers versus the hassle of maintaining a server in EA's case, or just some of that other stuff. Like it's I hope everyone just kind of just as a blanket policy, just gets out there and just checks yes on whatever thing they have to check to make their games work. That'd be the right thing to do, I think, But I suspect it will be way trickier than that. Do you think this makes Sony move the goal posts at all with their service that they this makes PlayStation now look like garbage, Like in terms of the price, terms of price stuff, it's it's still nineteen ninety nine and to an extent experience, I mean, now it's not bad, like it's playable, but you definitely notice a difference, you know, I mean even just locally playing Geometry Wars. I noticed a difference, you know, like over the stream stuff, but actually it was kind of awesome. It worked out. It made it look really different because it's a little bit blurrier, which for that kind of that aesthetic that they're going for in that game is kind of nice. And then when Ship gets crazy, it's just full of Canan Lynch two MPEG's and it just it just gives the game a different style. Actually thought it was kind of cool in this like really weird way, but also sounds unplayable considering how busy that game is a little bit a little bit, Yeah, in any latency, there is too much latency. Yes, yes, there's that for sure. Did you see Uh, some Digital Foundery did a really nice extensive breakdown. Since it's in the preview program, you know, people can test it. They tested a bunch of stuff with this. Did you see any of that? No, so this thing is wild. Uh, there are a bunch of things like some things are better and some things are worse. So they have eradicated screen tearing, like any game that had tearing on the three sixteen no longer hasn't here. Also, everything's got texture popping well so no, no, that's also so that's also in the plus column. Like especially like you like to they tested mass Effect one like you E three games, the texture popping is dramatically reduced. Like they said that all the textures load in way faster, and it sounds like just regular load times or faster. To the downside is apparently the performance in some games is fucking terrible. Like they said, mass Effect gets down to like ten frames a second at some points. Wow, well, I mean they've got it's a preview, you know that. Yeah, I've got they're committing to like they're they're kind of they're they're actually committing to saying everything will run exactly the same. So yeah, they told us that in our meeting, and maybe they should have stressed like, hey, when this is out for real in the fall, and they thing will run the same, because yeah, like some of these benchmarks sounded really bad with this first version that is out there. Yeah, well so I don't know, it's I like the idea that's one game out there that like was frame locked or something where like like a old Solitaire style, remember that when you Solitaire take Forever, and then when you did it on a new machine, it did it like two seconds Katamari or something. It's just like going absolutely crazy and the men you load it up. Yeah uh, and then they let us get our hands on that controller they're making to the Elite controller, which they feel like one hundred and fifty dollars in your hands. Feels really nice. Yeah, it's got super nice. It's got this like rubbised grip around the bottom, and the top is like that. It's that kind of matt finish that's like, I don't know how to describe it. It feels like velvet almost, like this really soft, smooth kind of matt on the top. Yeah, a bunch of the stuff and there's made out of steel. Steel. I really liked the triggers for racing games. I was suddenly like, m I wish I had these like just clutching up and down for shifting gears. Yeah. Yeah, they Actually there was a guy at the booths giving me a demo with that thing. He even pointed out that the so the sticks them shelves are all steel and then the ring around like in the well where they sit is some kind of ultra hard plastic. So there's like no like over time they won't like shave off plastic dust as you move the sticks around. Feel as bad as that happens on like fifty dollars cons controllers, that that happened on a hundred and fifty dollar con, they'd be hearing about. Sure. Yeah, I don't know that it's necessarily worth the money, but yeah it is. It does seem like a nice thing. It's like an extreme luxury item. The triggers change as well on the bike, Yeah, I fiddled with those a little bit. But the switches, yeah, change the paddle yeah yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, Yeah, really strange. I wish I could have try a fighting game with that deep Pad. Yeah. They didn't really have games hooked up to it. It was just a bunch of tech demo stuff. Yeah, the demo thing whereas an alien running around. Yeah, it's like, come on, Yeah, I didn't love the field of deep Pad. What is it a sixteen way? It's no, it's it's a metal It's it's still an well no, no, I didn't mean in terms of inputs, but just the articulation, like it got a bunch of extra clicks in the diagonals. But I think they showed in the video though, when they revealed it that you could, couldn't you swap it out from all these Yeah, there's a normal kind, But I'm talking about the the underlying, the mechanics of it, the way you feel it, like if you do a three sixty with your thumb, you'll feel it like click a bunch of extra times as you go around in a circle. It feels. Yeah, if you look at the underside of those, you know, you got one of those little samples. Like the underside is to say standard. Oh, I know, I know what you're saying, but like the moving it is what feels different. Yeah, and that's I don't I don't know what the benefit is there, because it's it's not like games are going to detect that well. He said in that meeting. It was to help you hit diagonals more easily and that kind of thing. But that might make it too easy. Then you know, at that point, you make it a little bit harder to hit the straight directions, and that's that's no good either. Exactly what I was thinking. One hundred and fifty dollars controller problems. Yeah, yeah, maybe, I don't know. You want to talk about interesting E three interviews having two industrial designers on your stage to talk about their controllers, a real interesting interview, like so you made this thing, huh yeah yep. I was like, so you guys contact from Microsoft and they're like, nah, we really big and those two a design team. As it happens, I was like, oh yeah, keyboards and consoles, and I guess yeah, basof PC hard, we're pretty good. I've got some stuff to wrap up if nobody else, yeah, go for it, go for it. I could pull up my list here. Actually, let's just get right to it, Danny. Your last appointment of E three. Yeah, like Friday afternoon, that one pm I went and played No Man Sky and you also had played it. I did it before and on Tuesday evening right there, also last appointment. What do you think? I thought it was great to finally play it. I think playing it really lets you know what that game is. And it is a very good looking, polished space based Minecraft game. Okay, I think what can you build? You can you build because they they punched rocks or whatever you can? Yeah, I don't think he means you are building like structures out of whole cloth much more that your sky venging. It's a scavenging game, so the things you upgrade. Are your weapons, your ship, and your sousa and those canna be upgraded via the study of a whole periodic table of unique elements that they've created. It's not our universe. They're not real elements. He said. They started out just like helium carbon, but for some reason they changed them, and he doesn't tell me why. This is straight up like not our universe. This is a because like, for instance, when you kill animals on planets, there are setting those that turn up like there is in robotic police Corps exists. I think America, I think could do that. So that was maybe like it's not the biggest mechanic, but the weirdest revelation of playing this thing wanted level. Yeah, you straight up have GTA stars in this, Like the more ship you fuck up on a planet, the more stars you fill in, and the more of the like robot overlords come and and mess you up when they're robot overlords on every planet, not every planet, most most of life. Yea, what constitutes fucking up a planet? Is it just killing stuff? Or is it taking natural resources? I send your ship into it. I didn't have enough time to really get a sense of that. I think it seemed like it was more killing animals and stuff like mining probably wouldn't get you in trouble, also if you have a license, although he did mine on the planet on the demo and the Sentinel did to sue. And like the higher the water. Let's start out with these little drones flying at you, but then like these big walkers started coming afterwards, which is cool because the drones are also made it as something, so you could just jump down ice a couple of weird space pigs and then when the drones come, be like all right, and then shoot those guys down and get connects too, so when you get those resources you can then it's like Minecraft, and that nobody knows the recipes when this game launches, okay, so you're not gonna know what's worth watch where it's selling and what it makes. Is there some kind of like economy like calling things from one place there, so there are civilized worlds where you were communicate with people that he did. He didn't really get into that because I just assumed it would be like everything would be like shit that's beneath you, you know, space pigs or whatever, and you'd just be landing places and fighting fucking weird space dinosaurs and and that would be it. You'd be alone. I never, I never. I don't think I've ever commented on whether they're full on cities like actual names. It seems like, I guess, when there are other ships shooting, one might assume that there are other people in space that are intelligent. So maybe there definitely are in space like there he showed. He showed me like a full on space station with capital ships docked there, and then some pirates showed up, Like there's intelligent life, but it seems mostly confined to space from dock to the space station and trade. Yeah, and that's what you do there? You trade? Is there? Do you walk around the space station like a menu? He started in a space station? Okay, but I don't think it ever leaves that first person view really yeah. I asked if there was like a UI elements like sort of Eve style when you go up or like Elite dangerous when you go up and do it, and he said, no, no, no, you you're from here, like you you dock straight on, straight up like X wing style, like you fly towards the port on the dock on a big capital ship or space station and hit like a button and you'll fly in a dock and then you can get out. But but I don't know what you do once you get out. I don't know if you walk up, sit up, start minding the thing, like I don't know if there are NPC's walking around that you can bodily walk up and talk to, or if it just pops like a trade menu. I don't I don't think that's the game. I don't think so. Yeah, I would assume not, but there is. But there is an element of collecting things from one's absolutely economy, like a trade actually want to trade. So the other thing you was saying is that actually what you'd be is like, Okay, I have this one element. I better collect this other element and then this element, and if I combine, combine those and if you have the recipe, you can literally collect these recipes the idea like the blueprints for them, or you can just put them together yourself. And to do those you can then say make components and then you can sell out components, or you can add it to your ship or your suit, or your or your guns. And the thing that I found interesting from the dot demo is did he show you the part where it was like you're making the different guns, so the amount of permutations of guns you can great are like in the millions, right, you can basically like modify these things to be absolutely anything. Can I make one that shoots space pigs? Hope? So I don't know. It seems like they're in there very like specific tiers, and the same for your ship as well. You can take off parts and modules and add those ones if you want a bigger ship, though you have to buy the bigger ships and then you lose those parts apparently when you sell your old one. But it seems to be a game that's mostly about like forward momentum, where you're not because I was thinking, like I went into the galaxy map and tried to find you know, it seemed like, how could I ever go back to the planet I was on before, because when you zoom out of that planet, like it's so mind bogglingly vast, and they did. There are billions of stars in the game, like it's crazy. And when I found one, when I went and searched for one myself, like the planet was kind of shit, like it was just a big ocean planet with a little archipella go on it and the animals were kind of weird looking, and that was kind of cool because then I thought, actually, if I was doing this in the real game, I'd probably just take off again, go through the stratosphere and then and then is there a fuel concern? Oh? I didn't notice any fuel. I know this is this dis thing, like you have to upgrade your drive to go further right right, and everyone's obviously trying to get into the center of the universe. But it seems like I felt, you get to the center, you get five percent of the profits from learning first person there it's this little big cube, but you get to make decisions as the god of their excamp. He did. He did tell me you could you could kind of bookmark or annotate certain planets if there if there happens to be a planet you want to come back to a UK and market so you can find it easily. Yeah, because there's a lot trying to think this game I want to play that I want to dig out. I guess they're they open sourced a while back, but the last version was it was knocked us four. That is this really in in a broad sense in terms of like it's a huge thing of generated planets and you are kind of exchanging information with other players in this single player universe about like here's where this is where this is kind of filling out a guide, and people kind of brought that up for a little while now talking about this. I kind of want to look at it before before No Man's Guy comes out, just to get a sense. Yeah, this is like a single player experience. Yeah, Like as you're playing the game, it's uploading to this center. The central server in the game is called Atlas, which basically takes all of the information. You upload your packets to it when you're playing the game. If you can play the game offline, and then if you reconnect after a week, it'll just pop them all up. And but that's where it gets into like the like this this is not a multiplayer game, This is not Eve this is you will not be dog fighting alongside your friends. So I think what they're doing is they're like they're honing like what this was. I think is like almost benefits them and also kind of bit them in the ours because there's this this sort of vagueness around us game for the past year has meant that people are super excited about what it could be, but then they're sort of I don't know, I feel like people are maybe thinking this game is a much more grander connected thing, like it's not a Star Citizen this is sure, it's much more like Yeah, I think they've been pretty honest about it what it was from day one. It's just you kind of had to read between the lines of what they were saying to an extent. Yeah, yeah, they weren't always as you know, like when when asked about multiplayer stuff, it'd be like, well, you know, like they'd be kind of referring to this kind of sharing of information or whatever, but kind of like it's not necessarily direct multiplayer. Yeah, it's like, you know, okay, what is that? You know, like the things you do on a planet on a grand scale are reflected for other people, but it's not like they see you they're doing it. You know, you don't see a guy running around killing space pigs. It's just that all the space pigs will be dead when you go there, you know, and who knows, like maybe there is some sort of like when when I was sitting there and talking to Sean asking questions about so so this is like we know what this game is now, and he's like, there's actually some of this stuff or gonna talk about so like whenever I ask him about the online stuff, it's always like, no, it's not a game where you're gonna meet up with lots of people and play. But then I'm never really sure if like, are you gonna put in like a dog fighting thing in here, or or is there another mode that's gonna be here? Is it going to be like a hub where you can meet up players and like maybe trade with other players, but it's not in your world? Like I don't know what will players and like their actions in the trading, well, like what will will there be a player run economy? Yeah, like if other will other players have an impact act or like GTA five or something like impact on on one of the stock markets, there will be something like that. I want to be the space Annihilator. That's my goal. You can do that. I'm gonna destroy everything in that entire universe. You're just gonna have everything. You're gonna have a lot of robot cops on your ass. I will kill the robot cops. There will be no robot cops left by the time I'm done. I wonder if you get your wanted level high enough, like on a planet, if they'll actually chase you off and too, it does. I think he said it follows you to an extent. Oh you don't know. Actually what it is is that you have like effectively like a persistent notoriety level. So the more it's cross world or so the Sentinels are all the same, then if I believe that's the case. Is that what he told you? And I don't know that, But do you think the Sentinels are Like yeah, I think he said that. Yeah, Like they're all kind of of the same faction, and they'll they'll sort of remember you jurisdiction the entire universe or no, no, no, no again it's it's yeah, Like that starts to paint a really interesting picture of what this universe is. If there's like some big robot faction that runs We ran out of time way, but I had like twenty minutes, so I ran out of time way before I ran out of questions. But I wanted to ask, yeah, like if there are different factions of how they relate to each other, you know, like is there some kind of overarching narrative the center of the universe? You get to run the robots. All right, Okay, that sounds cool. Peter Malin, he was there, those are the types of questions that sounds like they are very not interested in answering, which is probably like for the best in a way. Well, I get the sense of a lot of that game is still kind of influx. You know, they're still so I thought that last year, and I thought it this year, and I thought they said, no, we actually really know what this game was. And then this year I said like, look, you've had three six months on your own basically not doing any price or anything, like how much has this game changed from what you were talking about last year? And he was like saying, it hasn't at all, Like this was still the thing we were trying to make. And then I was talking to him bed like, you know, how what happens when this game gets released, because it's like, surely what it is on day one is going to be different to what it is a week later, two weeks later. And in that same way, like games like Dark Souls and Minecraft, they sort of they evolved one the sort of general knowledge base kind of grew. And he was just saying straight up and saying like we're just gonna, like I don't know, we're gonna give review copies to people on day one and be like go for it. Huh, Like what is that guy? It's I find it fascinating because I love exploring virtual was like even when I played Warcraft, I seed and I just loved it, like looking at stuff totally with Skyrim. So it scratches that itches completely. I don't think it scratches other itches that people might want from those types of games. Yeah, like the people that seem to be coming to this wanting a very regimented experience with a lot of clearly delineated objectives or whatever may not be as satisfied with this, but like I'm totally with you, like in the sense of this game just encouraging expiration. Like I was digging into the kind of astronomical aspect of it more and just ask a bunch of questions in that vein, and he was saying, like it's cool because like you know, they're they're like they're they're simulating actual orbital mechanics, so the planet's actually orbit their stars, but very slowly. But so like where the day night cycle is on the planet is totally based on like how the planet's actually facing the star, and like I flew around the planet and I was like, oh, there's the night side. And I landed on the night side and it was too fucking dark, so I had to fly to the day side to see what I was doing. But just to think that, you know, the idea of the things, that these things actually move naturally, and and he was saying, like they're there are you know, they're black holes and other kind of interstellar phenomena out there, and there will be aspects to like the ship progression of how you encounter and deal with those things. Like it sounds like there's a lot more stuff out there besides just landing on planets and mining the Can I blow up stars and send these planets careening off in the open space? You blow up a star, the stars within it's within its solar system aren't surviving that? Yeah, probably probably I'll go down with them. But like the animals, the way they react to apparently you know, faraging up on the top and like they sleep at night times, And then like that plays a part if you want to like get right in the back and not have some crazy massive space dinosaur cat eating you while you're trying to mind your stuff. Like it's just all of that sort of like unknown emergent gameplayers on it find setting like imagine like you're a big you know, space not as well, like imagine like finding a system with like three stars something. It's just like fuck, like how cool would that be? Trainery system? Something like that. Yeah, did they say, I know that there's now a page up on Steam for No Man's Sky. Have they said anything about whether it's going to be day and date there? I asked that he said they're going to try and get it as close as that's good. So what that means like they don't have a date for this. It sounds like they want to have a date for this, Like I don't know if that means that they're gonna say something at games Calm or like I would think that they would just kind of get back in their office, hope that it stays water free and get it done. This this to me, I don't, you know, I will see if they don't if they're not really committing to a release date at this point, but this to me seems like the last time to show it off before it ships. Yeah, and just kind of like okay, all right. In fact, I would I would have maybe not shown it here at least not on the press conference at least not like like I feel like this this stage demo for that game was was not great because it was just here's combat. Well, but you were saying, like I admired this that they actually they really did go in without an it, right, he really did just pick a random planet and go The only thing they had planned was that no matter what the planet was, it was going to have one of those like nodes to do that part of the demo. But yeah, it was you know, from what they said, it was a complete rule at the time. Yea, the worst things. But it did start in space like shooting stuff and then landed and shot some more stuff, like you know, like the it seemed very like focused on like we're just letting you know that these are things you can do in this game. Yes there are guns, like kind of just just getting that out of the way for people, and that's fine, but it just doesn't seem like it's necessarily the crux of the game. So it just felt like one of those one of those kind of things like okay, you guys want combat here, It is fine. Yes, they're talk We've been talking about exploration for years and people seem excited. But some people just want to shoot stuff. So here you go, you can shoot stuff. Please let me off this step. I felt like it was a very different Sean than I was talking to with that demo though, you know, like he was like I get the I'm almost at the end of this and I can see the light or it was it was God, it was it was it losing our minds. It was. It was more like he was like kind of delighted by the things he was seeing happen in this giant system they've created. It was like, okay, cool, Like he was just like so like when when I was buzzing that planet, I was like looking for the kind of the light dark terminator where the you know, the night time part of the planet started. I was flying around the planet and as I come around, this giant stream of lasers just comes flying at the screen and he's like, oh, what's going on over there? And like a fly in that direction and it's like, oh, it's some pirates ambushing that, like that convoy of cargo chips or whatever, you know, just like the emergent stuff just happening, and you see this little like spectacle off of something blowing up off in the distance, and then you want to go explore it and yeah, they're like, oh they got blown up and drop their cargo. I'm gonna take this now, right. Yeah, if if all those systems were great, then yeah, this this could this could last us years. Yeah, it seems like an impossible game to It's like the Fallout thing. It's like trying and play Fallout three or New Vegas for fifteen minutes and get an appreciation for what that game is. Like that game is the is the negative space between moments as much as it is the moments themselves. So it's kind of hard to tell if this game is fun or not when you're like looking at it or when you're playing it, because who knows. Like it's going to be one of those things where you play for two hours and you go like and then you find a planet that's fucking awesome, and then it's worth it, you know, it find like you find like a crash ship, Like he describes a scenario of like, oh, you might discover a crash ship on a planet that's way better than your ship, but it's it's not fit to fly. Oh cool, but you can look at it and see what it needs and go out and gather those resources and then repair it and then you can fly out. Yeah, and you can straight up like like it's like Red Faction. Did you see the grenade stuff, So we upgraded one of the guns to like basically shoot grenades. Yeah. You can just dig a giant hole in the ground. You keep going fucking a yeah, all right, he said. I I asked how far down? He said, you can dig like one hundred and twenty eight meters down down into a planet. I want to make every planet as small as possible. And but has that reflected in other players games? Like? I asked them that the ages ago and I can't remember exactly how it works because I was under the impression it was just the like exploration thing, like, oh, once somebody finds this planet, it'll be marked like, oh, discovered specifically, like if you know the population of that planet and stuff like you know, grand moments would be reflected across other games. I thought, where like if you could make a species extinct on planet or all life extinct on the planet, They said, everybody would see that. But I don't know that the other players are going to see the individual hole that you dug or something like that. Yeah, that could present a lot of problems if like Jeff plays, and it'd be like like a weird sinc moment of like you got two players blowing apart the same world, which I mean, with the number of planets, is not the most likely thing in the world, but it would happen eventually. And then it's like, Okay, well I came back to my planet and it just had someone else's holes in it. What the fuck? Yeah, that that's a weird problem or or weird weird case to solve for I guess. But yeah, I'm sure that they've thought of that already. I think my favorite part was when Sean was like, oh, just go find another planet for yourself, and I zoomed back to the like overworld map. It's like mass effects style, like sort of I'm being music playing and you're just going through these clouds of nebulae and stars and stuff, and you just got that, like, fuck, man, was so insignificant as you get that, Like, I guess I'll pick this one. Go download Space Engine for your PC. Oh yeah, if you really want to I got that, don't worry. Yeah, uh, it's cool. Did I hope they finish it? Yes, sooner rather than like so, I'm with you, and I hope I like it like I think I will, but like it like it. Like Danny said, there was no way to know from the twenty thirty minutes you got to play of like barely got to grasp even what the form of the game is, much less if it'll actually be entertaining for long stretches of time. It seems like something you could just check in with occasionally, right, Yeah, just play a little bit of it and like, Hi, what's this planet? Shot a guy? It's like Nabby nobby boy too? Yeah, where is a girl? Girl? Every time he search a planet? Yeah, this is imagine imagine kept going through the nebue lions and he is elongated girl just stretching through the whole thing. And it great. I mean with if if that engine is truly generating things randomly, then eventually girl would have to exist, Like it's statistically improbable that girl doesn't exist already. Yeah, all right, I mean there are infinite girls. Say that for the sequel, I guess I wouldn't play track Mania Turbo. Yeah, yeah, so, but I understand correctly that's just a repackaging of existing track Menia stuff. It's not. It's it has new tracks in it, but it is collecting environments that have appeared in other track Mania games. The visuals have been redone, the hud has been redone. Uh. And the way they're presenting it at the Ubisoft booth was like it had credits on it like an arcade game. It was like two credits, which so single player track Mania is about you playing a track over and over again as many times as you want until you feel you're comfortable with it and comfortable that you can get a good time on it, and then telling the game okay, let's do it for real, and then racing through it, not being able to reset because it's your real one, and getting a time at the end of it, and that's the time that gets submitted to the online leaderboards. And you only do that once per day or some per whatever, So can you just do it for real over and over? What they had in the previous games were was an in game currency planets right in the most recent open and you know they've had other forms of currency before, and you would use that to like if you you would get your first your first official run would be free. If you wanted to do it again afterwards, then you have to pay some some of those credits to do it. And you know which at some point, like I'd logged into track Mania a couple days ago, and I have like three hundred and thirty thousand planets. Nice because I ran a server for a while, and that's you earn planets for, you know, contributing to the community that way. I guess. So by running a popular server, I was getting a tough ton of planets, and they would eventually rescale their entire economy because I used to have like a million and a half and they rebalanced the economy and now I have what I have. You were a planet air exactly? Was anyone playing? Yeah, there was one server that had like one hundred forty people on it. I was fucking psyched and I got on there and there was bullshit music playing and the HUD was all over the place. And that's the thing, you know, like single player track Mania is not the thing you're there for. And you know they've got their track generator in that they showed at their press conference that looks cool, but until I can see, like, how was it? So whatever? This is coming to PC. Yeah, so it'll be fine. It'll be track Mania. People will do that. It'll be broken in all the ways you want track Mania to be broken. Share will be listened to fucking bullshit TM Karma HUD elements will pop up and look like garbage dead Mania lists all the way down the left side. Like it'll be a fucking mess. Name it's quick three, yes, but I don't know, like on on console. They they've done track Mania on console before, and it's never what you want because it's always like here's the tracks we made, and you're like, that's fine, but who cares? I want Star Wars Metallica the track. It's a terrible track. It's maybe it's maybe the worst playing music during it, I believe. So it's actually I believe it's a remix mashup of Star Wars. It's just Invisible Kid over and over again. Yeah, yeah, so it's it's I think it. It looks really cool, uh like just visually it it, you know. I think I was playing on it. They had a PS four there and I think it was hooked up and turned on. But who can say. And it looked really great, just a you know, a bump up in fidelity that that that I appreciate. So, you know, seeing seeing that is heartening. Seeing that they have like fucking they're like, nope, no Mania Planet, none of that stuff. Like you load up track Mania, you play track Mania. It's not like which they've even kind of made the Mania Planet interface in the existing stuff a little bit smoother, but it's still insane. Yeah, this this seems like a good next step for that game. But the problem they'll run into, I think is is a rough one because the like track Mania Nations Forever is still free, like the stadium environment for the original kind of run of track Mania games is still free, and by charging for the sequel in the Mania Planet kind of track Mania two era, like it just didn't attract a player base the same way, and they made it free for a good long time, and that seems to have worked. Like they were like fifteen hundred people playing it when I when I logged in a couple nights ago, and that's a that's a good number, that's a decent number. You can you can find a couple of servers that have people on them that way, but like it's hard to say, like you know, okay, like they're gonna split people again and say, hey, come to track Menia Turbo like that gets weird. So remains to be seen how it all comes together. But it played nice. I want to see it in VR because that seems like a nightmare, Mike. So it's it's kind of my maybe my complaint with VR or one of the things I'm wary of with all that stuff is the speed of the games. You know, like games got fast and then it got slow again, they got fast again. But like you know, like when I think about the games I like to play, they're very precise, very quick moving things, right, you know, shooters and racing games and that sort of stuff. And you know, like they're slowing these games way down so that people don't puke, and in terms of the frame rate or seeds and when you play that, when you play Jackmania in first person, it's like it's a Shane like staring at my big monitor. It's a little much when when it goes into first person, you know, so like I'll be curious to see how that works because it sounds like it could be very violent. But but I'm all for it, and and that's that's something I want to see because like so many of these other demos we saw were very slow, deliberate, swimmy kind of things that you know, like the the Imbulscire demo, Like they actually said that they got their player movement speed up quite a bit compared to most other first person VR experiences, but that's because they they put it on an alien planet where the scale is all crazy, and that they say that, you know, from their tests. The problem comes in when you see things that are familiar to you, like a doorway or things that are scaled to the real world in such a way that, like the movement speed then is something that's relatable in your brains. But by making it some big, weird alien world full of scorpions and rocks, then you can actually move about twice as fast as as they discovered, you know, people moving in other environments. It still felt super slow. It just felt like it was, you know, like it was maybe technically running quickly or more then most of the our things, but everything was so big and so far apart that it still took forever to get places, and it was like, you know, so it was like a zero sum game on some level. I don't know to an extent. I'm sure there is a kid. There will be there's a language that will be discovered among designers and and it's kind of a set of best practices for not making people lose their shit. I want to lose my ship? Do you you physically want to lose your shit? If I have to, as long as it's to an end. If if we're losing my shit, shit your pants while using the her, I mean that's like willingly is a weird way, like you know, would ship my pants? Would you enter into an experience knowing that was a likely outcome? Yes, okay, that's what I want to know. What that's like? Yeah, I would want to know. I mean throwing up, I'm following up or I don't like throwing up, Like that's it's no fun. We're sitting your pants. Say that's a good time for everybody. Well that was only because we were sat to day. The phrase lose your ship was uttered a few times. But I mean throwing up is a much more like, yeah, exactly outcome from my experience. I was gonna say, if they could figure out of the r experience that like, where the reasonable expectation was you were going to shit your actual pants. How could you not try that? You know, like obviously but yeah, totally, Like you know, throwing up hurts. Yeah, it doesn't feel good. I was. I was pretty good at it for a while, but man, don't brush your teeth. Have you do it too? You can shoot your pants all day and teeth exactly, get new pants. You're kind of prepared for that. Yeah, I guess if you're playing a game called Don't Shit your Pants. Yeah, yeah, So if there was a Don't Shit your Pants VR where the actual outcome was it did something to you that made you shoot your pants, I would play that game. If I had to ship my pants to know what I'm saying, like, I would be like, yeah, man, let's do it. You know, I'm not like a fucking sicko over it. Play Russian Roulette though, it's you'll feel alive. You know. The risk is there, yes, but I you know, if I have to ship my pants to know where my personal limits are, I'm willing to do that at least once, okay, most of once probably actually, but you know, I would come prepared with some sort of adult diaper situation for that, because I'm not a lunatic. You lay out a tarp for that, My VR tarp, the VR game, I'm gonna get into selling VR tarps. Fuck you guys, I quit. The VR tarp is going to Kickstarter. Yeah, you and George Brett are gonna go into business, Yes, exactly, We're We're partnering on pants shitting VR technology good twice a year for Yeah, the VR. The VR game that brings about incontinence is the first true milestone. That's when we know we'll have arrived as a society. We're ready to speak to aliens. At that point, we've learned everything we can learn. Speaking of racing games that will be fucked up in VR, did you hear about it? They're making a remake of perhaps the most exciting PlayStation one racing game. Yeah. Yeah, there's a roll Cage thing happened. Yeah, rip rip it's called it got in somebody linked because I jokingly put in like a roll Cage remake as my like E three wish list. Fucking love roll Cage. It was really cool. Yeah, So somebody's taking it on themselves. They're gonna do already access Apparently some stages here, but yeah, they've bought like a thirty second unreal engine demo of it. Is it the original roll Cage team or just somebody who's a fan, who's who's trying to make the spiritual successor yeah this this looks as fan made. Like the website is a fan website that is this video on it. It looks super grassroots, but it looks good. Cool. M you were Okage like like on the list of like mission statement of things that we're gonna have, gonna have dumb weapons, fast tracks and crazy music, and I was like, yeah, check check, check done. Sure, roll Cage, Absolutely that's cool. Like a VR burnout that might be on the that's that's pans hitting, that might be on the extreme end. Yeah I think that. Yeah. I mean well, I mean like a VR car crash would be a really fucked up thing to go through, just the crash mode for burnout too, or you're just bouncing down the street. Yeah, I mean yeah, like I think it could be. That'd be impossible to play and real terrible. Yeah wait do you say burnout or wipeout burnout? Oh, things like things like burnout crash mode. They'll rely on you being like this it would it would happen, be like Scott have to be this sort of thing where you do it once from a third person and it's like, hey, do you want to see the first person replay? Oh? And you're like okay, and they pick a random car that was in it. It was in the crash. You're like, oh, you're the petrol attack driver for this one. Like, I'm still at the point where I can't visualize what of your experience is where you're not just in a first person's perspective. You know. That was the interesting thing about when we went to see Oculus they had that Insomniac game. Oh they did. Yeah, it's a very short demo, but it's a third person thing and you're behind the back of of this, you know, Tundra exploring Madman who was running and jumping as these like lovecrafty and tentacle creatures are chasing him. H And it's weird, Like it looks nice and you know, there's a sequence where you're kind of climbing down a rope and you can look down into the pit and go, that's a long way down. But it, like the VR noss of it doesn't really add much and it was just a weird thing, like you just look at and go like, this doesn't actually need to be VR. I was gonna say, is that just a situation where instead of using a right stick to control a camera, you're using your neck. That is exactly what it is, which which is a little weird because you can't rotate around the character to truly see what's behind him. You can turn around and go like, oh, this is a weird technacal creature there. That's weird, right, But that's actually a hassle compared to just using the right stick to look around. That was a similar effect that in that party game Morpheus demo we did where you were the creature the big teamster play room VR thing and when they when the four players launch you into the air at the end, and the guy running the demo was like, now you can no, no, it is when you got to the end of the course. But the guy running the demo was like, now you can turn around and see all the destruction you caused in the city behind you. But you had to literally rotate one hundred and eighty degrees in your chair craning my neck back. They're going like, okay, very difficult. To actually see what was directly behind. I mean, if you're standing up, it's less hard. Yeah, you know, but we were sitting in chairs. So that's that's to contend with it. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, the the Insomniac demo, I just it didn't It didn't click for me in a way that like, oh, this is something, this is great, this is like next level stuff. It was like it's a guy running and jumping on the ice and then he finds a fireplace and sits down and then attendant. So the crazy thing that happens there is like you're running from these tentacle creatures. Then he finds this like weird like den with like a fireplace and a nice chair and a table and stuff, which is totally out of place, and he walks up and sees it, and you hear this whisper like you shouldn't be here, and then the tentacles come and they wrap around you the camera You're like, what what the fuck is that? Like, no, am I here? Like like, it didn't. It wasn't like a what this is a big mystery. It was like, what this is a big mismatch compared to everything else in here, because I'm controlling this guy who's running and jumping, and to have the camera get strangled wall. It's just like, yeah, it just it didn't make any sense to me, Like, you know, it just seemed like they it was like this weird mixed metaphor or something, right, it just yeah, yeah, it was really strange. So I don't know what that thing is. And it looks nice and being able to look around and stuff. You're like, this is a great looking ice cave and it's really dark and you know, there's there's it's spooky. There's an atmosphere to it, but just doesn't doesn't sound like it's trading on terms. Yeah, like in terms of like hey, this is something you need to do in VR, Like no, I don't that part I didn't get and you know whatever, like it was a super short demo. Who knows what that final product will be, but it seems like it's like like it seems like visualizing yourself being in the space is what's key from what I can tell, Like that seems to be what leads to that capital P presence that the tested guys always talk about, you know, like like like Will Smith always he described it to me. I was like at a certain point they had used the word presence so many fucking times in regard to VR. I was like, dude, all right, what exactly do you mean by that? And the way he characterized it was, it's when your brain starts interpreting things in the virtual world as being really there without you ever thinking about it. So like like if you were walking toward h like a handrail, you would you would unconsciously reach your hand out to lean on the rail without realizing it wasn't there, you know, yeah, Or like avoiding obstacles that aren't actually there because you see them in front of you. There, that impulse Scared demo does that to a certain extent, because that's like that demo is all about the gun. It's all about gun handling, holding a gun up, aiming down the sites. That's the that's the seth Louisian. Yeah, well Scars the name of the company, Okay, And uh, you know it's about that one to one movement of you and this gun. And that was profound for me. For me, it was it wasn't the gun, it was my arm. For me, it was like holding it up and seeing that there was an arm there holding this gun. And then that sudden like snap realization of like that's not my arm. My arms not that hairy. But it took like three or four seconds I had to look down at my arm to realize that's totally not my arm, right right, And that's that's pretty amazing. Yeah, for me with that thing, it was the tactile sense of like, you know, you normally you aim down sits in a game by pulling the left trigger, right, like you you physically held this thing up to your face to better aim it, you know. But yeah, and then but also it made that thing really easy too. Yeah. And it's like in that training section where they were popping up targets that you had to shoot very quickly, I was just popping them off left and right because right, it's you know, you have a generously you don't really need to aim down the sights. That thing's got a generous laser sight on it right coming out of it. But but also it's like it's it's basically the next level up from mouse control, Like people talk about how much better keepable mousehooter, Like this is a whole other echelon above that. Well, it's weird because there's a precision there, but probably a loss of speed because it depends on the movement of your own arms instead of just like a flick of the wrist, you know, like our our wrist and hands, like you know, people that are good with a mouse are very fast with it. So it's one of those things where, yeah, like technically it's really good for aiming, especially things you're not directly looking at, like that demo specifically was like but then and that's what made it easy because here I'm I'm just like walking forward with the analog stick on this move controller that's strapped into this gun shell, and then there's like, oh, there's like four scorpions coming at me, and you're just like just like never changing direction or having to really look at them that much. You're just kind of pointing the like very naturally pointing the gun at these things and smoking them. And like it was cool. It's powerful because like the shooting, you know, like it feels more in line with like how you might shoot a real gun if you had that generous of a laser side on it, right, like once you get used to the weight of it and how it moves and stuff. But at the same time it trivialized all of the combat and the thing in a way that like if if that had been a regular controller game would be like run up here, okay, now gotta turn here, shoot this, turn here, shoot this. Like there's so much head movement, so much right stick action there that it everything takes a little bit longer there, whereas heroes just you know, just shoot everything and move on. And that was that was weird. Still, it was still a really unique sensation, though. Yeah, just the feel of using that thing was pretty eye opening. Trying to think if there's anything else that jumps out for me through I played Need for Speed and I hear that that camera drift thing is optional. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, could you could you actually drive? Probably like find your corners, because when they were showing the gameplay of that, it wasn't so much the crazy drift camera thing, but there was just so much business with lights and reflections and shit, I was like, I have no idea where this race is going. I was staring at the mini map most the time. I figure out where the turns were, and I think it draws arrows on the course as well, so you're kind of you're getting assistance that way. But yeah, like the nighttime aspect of it certainly, like I don't know, the car was very squirrely. So one of the things they have in this game is they're saying like you're gonna be able to set the handling model to like underground, like the older Need for Speed Games or like the Criterion era Need for Speed Games, And it's a slider that will kind of go further in one direction, and it's suggesting stuff like tire pressure, and also they're like cars it to kind of make that stuff a reality. So I pushed it as far as it would go in the drift direction, which was not all the way they you know, they had it kind of rained into the center sort of, and it was a little too squarely for me, just like as picking up the you know, it's like the first time you pick up any driving game, you're gonna fucking bash into the first few corners and just kind of get used to the model. But uh, yeah, I'm not sure about that game, like it, you know, the demo. The demo was like this eight minute thing of like who can get the most rep in eight minutes, which didn't seem like a real mode from the real game because it was just like, we're gonna put four races here, and you know, we have an external monitor with the scores on it over here that we're tabulating outside of the game, and it just it was hard to get a sense for like how the progression will work. And they're like five different stories and stuff. But it looks really nice and and then you know the car modification stuff is in there, and you know, the FMB looks hilarious and like in that perfectly tragic sort of way. So I have high hopes for it. I guess I've got a couple more games, all right, I'm just gonna we're just kind of bouncing around here. But I saw a much much longer demo of the new tomb raterer than what they showed the press con Cool. Did you happen to see any of that? I know these guys didn't, but I didn't. But the one thing I'm hoping you say is that, like it's the way they sell tomb Rator every year, is the like they just showed the most ridiculously a matter of dramatically with the top thing. And you know, I can kind of appreciate that you needed a munch of spectacle on a gigantic stage like that, Like do they people keep saying that, like do you like, is the mainstream person watching this? Well, it's not who watches this stuff anymore? And like at what point do they rain it back in and say this is a press conference instead of saying this is for television because like what Microsoft was on Spike TV. Yeah, so there they were the only ones that seems like the sort of thing and marketing somebody would say and then oh yeah, nobody would ever question what they're saying, even though what they're saying is totally bullshit, right right, Every year they showed this sort of well regardless of the necessity. I was disappointed that that's what they showed because like, that's what I thought the first team Rader already had too much of. It's that line that the guy gave at the Square In ex press conference of like, yeah, we're putting the tunes back in tom or whatever, like that seems totally borne out by that. They showed like a good twenty twenty five minutes of the game at this meeting. I went to, they're getting a lot more of the kind of intricate archaeological puzzle solving, you know, big giant, ancient kind of constructs, you know, with a bunch of physics e. Puzzles and climbing and you know, you know, like the stuff you do in a tomb. I think kind of like a big cavenous open areas. So they showed a fair amount of that stuff there, and more than that, they're weaving that stuff into the main storyline this time where it's not the stuff I would do in a tomb. For the record, what would you would you? I would probably leave? What if you took their ancient riches first? I mean, if there were ancient riches that were like visible, then yeah, but I don't think I would go like kicking open sarcophagi. Also, the riches might be heavy there. I mean i'd I'd try to bring a backpack that had room in it, but if there was I would leave at that point. If I saw a dinosaur, I would probably be like I should go. If this game out of Trantosaurus Rex would be so good, it better? That would be really good. As as as Tune Raider two. Yeah, effectively, oh you're right, shouldn't it? Thus Lee have a t Rex fresh one? Okay, second one out of boats in Venice they should go back to that second one had a motorcycle, or that third one have a snowmobile. That sounds about right. I know the t Rex is in one for sure. Okay, that's early on. Well then they've already fucked so I mean, you know, the first game, not only were the puzzly tombs side mission like side challenges only, but they also constituted like maybe thirty forty five minutes of the game. They were nothing there. They'd be like one puzzle basically. It was yes, it was literally like solve one physics puzzle and you're done. And they were like five of them. They were cool. They were cool, they were they were like some of the best stuff in that game. I was like, man, I wish like half the game was this. So that seems like what they're doing, It seems like half the game because they had they still have those side challenge but tombs like those are still there in different spots, but major story beats are also taking place by you you know, it's more of the uncharted. You know, like Uncharted, it's good at like ancient machinery and you know, you spin this giant stone to make the sun focus on this thing and blah blah, you know, stuff like that. It seems like there's a lot more of that in there. And then the combat stuff they showed was fairly open, like the area that they were in, there was a lot more sneaking, you know, like I felt like there was some open stuff in the first game, but there was also a lot of take cover and pop up and go for headshots with your pistol. You know, there was so much combat. In a ton of combat. So the first tumb Writer has hardly any like you're shooting animals mostly right, and sometimes like I remember being a moment when suddenly you were attacking humans. It was like holy shit, right, it's it's radi escalated, whereas the new ones are just like uncharted levels of bodies dropping. It was. It was crazy and in the first one. So, I mean, it seems like there's still a lot of combat in this one, but they're they're emphasizing they've got a much more robust crafting system. Like you know, you like you pick poison mushrooms and combine them with the stone and something else and then you get poisoned arrows. You know, it's a lot more create a bunch of stealth tools or different kinds of ways to attack people other than just like picking up their guns and shooting them with them. Also, there's a Vinny'd likened it to like Assassin's Creed three. There's a lot of tree climbing in this one, and in forests there's a bunch of branches that they very obviously look like perches you can get on and you can just like just scurry up a tree. Was it the same sort of tune dress stuff or was it? Yeah, it was all in snow. It was that same stuff from the press conference there. But it just it just looks like a lot more like diverse series of action moments than you know, the first game was just set pieces and shooting. Was there any horrifically gruesome murder? She only died once, and it was not what I would call very over the top. She kind of got mauled by a bear, but it wasn't like it obviously didn't like rip her limb from limb. Yeah, like in the first game, it would have been that would have been like a five minute video of you watching her slow to get eviscerated, And yeah, it was not nearly that graphic, So they couldn't see anything like that. Yeah, it seems a lot more balanced to this time, Like it basically looks like what I wanted the first game to be. So I'm pretty excited about that. Uh. And then I went and saw a fairly lengthy demo of Horizon, which was the same stuff that showed at the Sony press conference, but played very differently. They fought that same giant like grimlock licking mechanical t rex, which I think they said it is called a thunder jaw. It's a great name, yeah, a good name, but in a very different way. And they actually had it in this d bug build where they could just freeze time at any point and just pan the camera around. So I wish I had a list of this, but they've they've paused, like right when that thing was charging the here the heroine whose named Aloy I believe, but like it was coming at the camera and they pause it and they start panning around, and then they start rattling off all these numbers. They were like it's got like two hundred and sixty attack animations and ninety eight points of articulation and like eighteen week points and blah blah blah, and like they were showing us all these places on that thing where you could blow off different armor plating and get to like it's it's actually it's crazy. It's like what it's what looks like mechanical musculatures, So it looks like muscles but made out of like cords and power cables and stuff, and it kind of glows, but you know, it looking like muscles, it kind of naturally looks like a weak point, you know, like underneath all this plating. That kind of kind of like draws your eye and makes you think of it's almost like orange weak points in contra or something. You know. I was gonna say, is it like Lost Planet where he's just like not know where the tang is coming from. It's not that overt. It doesn't like smack you over the head with like this is where you need to shoot it. But but not only is a little more subtle, but there's more of them, you know, It's not like every one of these giant monsters or robots only has one weak point, you know, if they're different ways to approach things, like it's already kills on was that as well because they have big orange eyes on their heads? Yeah, like that was the same. Yeah, yeah, sure, shoot here, and you know you've got you've got different arrow types and like you saw the thing in the press conference of the kind of the rope arrows where you could like uh tether it down to the ground. But then there was also like an explosive version of those things which you could use as trip wires. And they showed us they were fighting like a herd of smaller robots and it's kind of weird the robots all behave like animals in this, but it was an actual herd of animals and they set up like a bunch of trip wires between these trees and then like a lurd them over and they all just and threwom got blown up. You know, it seems like it seems like there's a lot of creativity and how you can approach the combat scenarios in that game. So so what is it? Is it a you know, mission base. It's it's fully open world, he said. There are no loading screens. It's actually like built on the Killzone tech. It's like extended from the shadow Fall engine. But it's fully open world. They said, Like, you know, they spend a lot of time getting like streaming assets and stuff going so that you don't hit load screens, but it's very RPG esque, like it's got you've got a character level, like your experience point bar, like your leveling bar is just there in the top right at all times. You've got a compass at the top kind of like skyroom that just you know, you'll see like points of interest as you're as you're roaming around their cities with like you know, there's trading and stuff. It sounds like there will be kind of a heavy questing element from the sound of things. They dropped a really good buzzword in that demo, which was post post apocalyptics. You know, it's like because this is like a thousand years after whatever calamity has occurred, so like there's like thunder of the barbarian Yeah, like actually it's grown over the building and yeah. Actually they showed a bunch of concept art and it looked exactly like that. It was just like here are some ancient cities but fully reclaimed, yeah, by nature, So like it's got a cool look. It's been Yeah, there's been a lot of people talking about that type of stuff and like the reclaimed city type stuff. There was a book Battle Killed Earth. Yes, that's the one. Yeah, I can't remember the name of it now, but anyway, that was quite popular and you're starting to see people kind of riff off that a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, it's a cool setting. It looks like it could be really interesting, like damage numbers fly out of stuff when you shoot them, all right, like it is. I mean, it is a not full on RPG, you know, like there's a crafting system, like a pretty heavy crafting thing. Like they were saying, the way that you kill robots determines how many resources you can harvest out of them. So like the less destructively you kill a robot, the more parts you would get out of it, like a monster hunter attack it in the head. Yeah kind of yeah, yeah, sure, come to think of it, it's crazy that this feels so far outside of Gorilla as we all, yes, like not it's even just one thing. It's not like they're making a third person game or like they're making the first person RPG. Like this could not be further from the cardar scripted, you know, kill Zone from I'm very very glad of that totally. It's so exciting because I think their tech has always been super impressive. I just think the world of kill Zone and the gameplay has been very boring. Yep, and so it seems like they're applying the tech interesting. Yeah, the setting got across in the first couple of games, and now it's like, well, you know, look, guys, I get that. You know, yeah, these space Nazis are evil, but maybe they're not as evil as you think, you know, like whatever, Like they've they drove that into the ground. Yeah. Yeah, Arizon looks awesome. Yeah, this looks great. It basically looks like everything I like in a game, you know, open world, lots of RPG stuff, a lot of sort of creativity and approaching different scenarios, over one hundred playable characters. Yeah, hats all right. I think they're putting out the compendium soon. Great, okay, level at my Horizon compendium. I'm pretty excited about it. But yeah, yeah, that that looks like one of the cooler games I saw the show. Yeah. I think that's all I've got left to wrap up, Dan, did you see anything that you haven't talked about much yet? Everything? I got to play a Fan of Pain for the first time and played forty forty five minutes. Overall, my thoughts are you know, very much in line with Jeff what you've said from what you've played before you kind of clear the prologue. Yeah, so I did the thing with Miller where you're going into Yeah, yeah, you get Miller out and give him, give him his sunglasses back, yep, and then you see what brand sunglasses he wears and everything, right, it was what brand, uh L ray or James L. Ray I don't know something or other ray Ban Yeah, maybe I don't know James L. Ray Band. Yeah. Yeah, there are a lots of little elements that you couldn't really see fleshed out in the demo, but like just going around the base, like picking up like or and like you know, building materials and stuff beds. Yeah, and like it made me curious how that's going to factor into the like mother based stuff. So that factors into like that gets turned into like a currency or research currency that you then used to unlock different weapons, different different cardboard boxes. The scarboard boxes are not cheap and that sort of stuff. Yeah. Well, I I also the thing you were saying about the silent protagonist, it was you know, I've heard you say that several times, but it was so much more noticeable when I was playing, because he literally wasn't saying anything. Yeah, especially that part I think you've mentioned where you rescue Miller and he's saying like, hey, say it, come on, say kept you waiting huh, I can't wait for you to say that, And then Snake's just running not saying anything at all. Yeah, like it's a it's a bad joke to begin with, and then like it doesn't they don't pay it off, and you're like, well whatever, And then there's the cutscene immediately after that where kind of it they're laying into you what the setup is for, like building a new mother basse and all this other stuff and rebuilding what got taken away, and it's it's it's Miller just fucking frantically yelling at Snake, yeah about fuck, we're gonna rebuild against those guys. Yeah, and then Snake just turns to him, stone faced, like an N sixty four character, no emotion, like no nothing, just looks over looks back like it's like, what what is going on? Even that first like five or six minutes, where's just Auslot on a horse talking to you and you're just staring at awslot. Yeah, I'm half wondering if there's gonna be some Kajima weirdness with Like in those first trailers there was a second character next to the Big Boss on the bed called Ishmael, and then there's also another one referred to named V that they haven't talked about it at all. I mean, pardon me, kind of wants it to be like Keefer is punished, Snakes slash Venom, Snakes slash Big Boss or whatever. But maybe you could play as another clone of Snake and maybe they'll lose some hater thing Like I would love for some big wool over the eyes another MS two Bases, because I love that so much. I would love a bait and switch on this one. I'm fine with it if it's just quiet Keefer Sutherland, because I like Sutherland a lot, but I love the big thing. The more you like Keefer Sutherland, the more you should be enraged with how they're using him. I mean, that's you know, unless it pays off later, which you know, maybe it does. But the lines of dialogue dialogue I heard in like the two hours I spent playing that game, was him stopping the horse. Yeah, and I'm like one or two things he said yeah, you know, and it's like the menu is just you back at the helicopter picking things from a menu, picking like, oh, let's do the side mission now, and then the helicopter goes in. You know, it's all very It's a lot like Ground Zeroes. Maybe he's not the protagonist, Yeah maybe, I mean yeah, maybe there's this whole thing is just this build of the game is super fucked up because they know that there's gonna be some twist that they don't want to reveal that early trailers. Yeah, when they showed like snake fighting the harrier on the George Washington Bridge and selling that stuff that in different places, it's this weird thing where it's like, yeah, you want to believe that there's gonna be more to it than that. But and if that's what they put out, it like it seems kind of disappointing, like you want there to be some big swerve, some big twist there. Well, I hope they pulled it out, because like when they first started showing three and I was like, you know, I really want to see what happened after two. I was kind of disappointed with like, this is all gonna be setting the sixties. I want to find out what happens with the Patriots and all this sudden the future, And I told myself, I was convinced that it was gonna be like, this is some VR mission that we're like Snake in the Future is, you know, reliving like Assassin Creed doing a big boss mission so we can go get the Patriots and the real part of the game. But then it turned out it super was just setting the sixties, but it was also really really good. I know you're not big on it, but I do hope if this is the last Metal year, we do get one last big Hey fuck you. This is a totally different game that we've been showing you because they've only really been showing the Afghanistan stuff they I remember it goes into Africa, you know. But but my understanding is that that is very similar. It's just another theater of operations. It's just another place to land the helicopter. It's another style of missions. I've heard heard of five. I've heard they're like five main big open areas. Okay, well, at least this was a year and a half ago when it was in Japan. Three, but I'm not really sure as of a year and a half ago and we did that cover story. They were telling us like, yeah, there's gonna be like five huge open world areas, and considering we've just seen Afghanistan and maybe a little bit of Africa is up there kind of like jungle area where they've shown quiet jumping around. Probably, Yeah, I don't actually know. They haven't even referred to anything past that, So I'm hoping there's huge chunks of this game that we don't know any thing about. I don't know, but when I played was awesome. Everything you said, like, it feels like far Cry as far as you know, was circling around this base trying to find the best way to go in zero, right, Yeah, yeah, it's just it's just more ground zeros, right, yes, with a little everything. I mean, it's been a year since I saw it, but it struck me as like this really looks like that. Yeah, yeah, with a little more space, like because you can't really approach the base in ground zero. Is that many? Yeah? Yeah, no, I mean obviously the setting in ground zero, well, obviously there's a lot of particulars that are different. What I mean is like, you know, same ui, same abilities, same mechanics. Yeah, it's applied to a much grander Absolutely, you see grabbing people shaking the non franfo like that's all the same type stuff. I mean narratively, like they kind of have a predefined end point, right, like this has to dovetail into Metal Gear. I mean yeah, I don't. Well, first of all, I don't think they're gonna make another main one after this, but yeah, what do you because this one's said in eighty four. Yeah, and then the events of Metal Gear happened in like the late eighties, So like, I out they're going to come up with another Like oh, here's this other crazy snake mission in between when he's like actively building out or Heaven. Basically in this other base is just a precursored Out or Heaven. Yeah, they have to be going in the direction. Yeah, yeah, maybe you build Out or Heaven at the end of this game is not a yeah, it is yeah, And I mean it's you pretty much see Solid and Liquid and the last trailer. I mean, yeah, it's gotten to that point to where those characters are meeting. It's I'm super excited. I mean that gameplays so awesome. I mean, I really hope there is a lot more story than Jeff, you are kind of worrying that there wouldn't be a lot. Yeah, I mean I've said it before, but for me again, like the fact that it plays so well this time is kind of a good consolation prize. But it's not if it's not if this game is not crazy metal Gear. At least, it's like seems like at least it's like a fun sandbox kind of thing. But like, for this to dovetail right into the events of Metal Gear, doesn't Big Boss then have to get back in the good graces of the American government. Uh oh, because Big Boss is yes, and then he is the leader of Foxhound at that point. Yeah, yeah, like so yes, the kind of has to end with Foxhounds being established, right. Yeah. I had a pretty great moment at the end of the demo where it's like it was a really kind of intense kind of chase sequence. So I was being chased while I was on a horseback, And what you're saying is you're bad at Stealth. Yes, I didn't even I did not even know this final segment you could play at Stealth until I talk to you. Yeah, like I just you know, it's like four four guys coming at you one two on the bridge, two below the bridge. I just got the two to go down to look for me there, and then ran across the bridge. Yeah. And and like every medal year, I had a plan where it's like, okay, well I'll sneak around this guy. And then it did like a cut scene of them like, oh, there he is, and I was like, oh, maybe I was supposed to get spoted here. Maybe you can't even do stealth here. It turns out you totally. But yeah, it was the super intense thing. These guys chased me through the desert and everything, and I got to my helicopter. I threw Miller on there, I hop on and like swing around like a mini gun. I'm shooting down. It was just super dramatic. And then I remembered I was playing Medal year when I saw my horse as I was taking off in the helicopter. My horse is just standing there and then a balloon just magically appears above it and pulls it into the sky. And er I didn't see that. Yeah, it was so stupid looking. I guess I'm just leaving my horse here. Oh well, this attached into a balloon and NAIs wildly as it goes into the sky. Oh this game sounds pretty good. Yeah, pretty great. Huh. Yeah. So I was a hundred percent excited for this after playing it. I mean I was already obviously, but yeah, I guess I was a little surprised that there was no Grand Turismo announcement here. I would there would have at least like mentioned it at some point. M Oh, that's right, because there was that leak of some form sport or whatever, right, right, right, Yes, there was that. I guess, yeah, there was whatever that thing was. But you know, like you talk, you know, they've been out there kind of sounding like, yeah, we're working on it. Hopefully it don't won't take as much time. I don't think Sony's slate was at all what anybody expected, except for maybe Last Guardian, Like I expected, yeah, something like GT and like a bunch of Morpheus stuff. Not right, the Insane Pie and the Sky stuff they brought. Yeah, yeah, for sure. What does Blephany do with that? Then it's like it's not like it was in the pass where that was like the there was a like drivet of driving games on the conduct. I know Drive Club is a piece of Hot trosp Project cars, is really solid. Yeah, yeah, so I hear and like people are not you know, obviously different platform, but people like Forts are quite a bit and like there's you know, even more extreme stuff like eye racing exists now, you know, like you know, the grant Reism is as a well established brand that people really love. It does command kind of an almost fanatical fan basis. It's like, you know, I think that that there's still room for for more of that from them. But yeah, like in terms of like what do they do to you know, by moving to another console that the simulation becomes that much more accurate, right, just by virtue of horsepower and that sort of stuff, and you know, the cars look better. But then like do they get in that weird situation where they've got like we've got one hundred premium cars and the rest look like they came out of a butt Like that, I think they can't get away with. Like when you look at like the number of cars in the Forts A game that you know, the not are all pretty much premium cars in the Grand Reismo sense, Like you know, it's it's a weird thing for them to do. And Project Cars has this like massive slew of like a really impressive slate of different disciplines of driving, right, And that's again that was essentially like crowd developed, Like how can somebody like Polyphony the sequel? Then yeah, they just did yeah today I think, and they're saying yeah, then they're saying that they're crowdfunding that one too. Yeah all right, Hey, you know what worked everybody to go through that first one, so why not You would like to think that the sales of the first game would then enable them to just make a sequel and not have to go down this route as a second time. But but yeah, sure, uh why use your own money? It's it's a great point. I use Sony's money when you can raise a bunch yourself first. And then yeah, yeah, I think that's kind of it for my three wrap up stuff. I don't know if you guys have any I played both music games different Actually I didn't talk entire life at three, but I played it a couple of weeks ago. Did you get so what is the did you get a sense of the GHTV stuff of how that's gonna work, the online stuff, like it's it's like a streaming channel. Yes, there are multiple multiple channels playing music videos. Yeah, and you play over the music video in a multiplayer sense, it scores the leader. Yeah, but how do you pay for it? Do you pay for it? What's the money end of it? Like there are so I don't know because I didn't talk to about it on the stage, but there's there was like an appalling amount of ways you can get access to this. I think you can get day passes. I think there's like a there's a longer pass and I'm not sure if there's like a free version of it or anything. Maybe they said there would at least be one channel that would be free to everyone out of the out of the gate. That's the only thing they would say. A few weeks ago when I played it, or that was a month ago or something. Now right like a few days before they announced it, we wouldn't saw it. So that's that's as much as Yeah, I don't know, maybe there's more information about price points, but I know that there's like at least like six ways of actually sort of accessing, which seems a bit messy. But I really like the controller. I think that's like, really it's a clever way of because the one problem I always had with the guitari or franchise. Is that everyone you went on you just you know you you started off playing those games as easy, and then you got better at them, and then you were on hard, and then every next game you're playing on hard, you're just getting used to the songs. Whereas this one, actually for new players and recurring players, kind of resets the skill point because you have to learn how to play this new instrument. And it feels good. It does feel good. It feels like a little more like not not that accurate, but a little more like what a real guitar player might do. Yeah, you're doing chords like or approximating them, you know, right, And it feels fun and I think the I think you get used to it really quickly, which is a good sign. Like the up and down on the on the buttons on the dui. And did you play any of the rock pown four stuff? Yeah, okay, yeah, so I didn't actually get to go about myself, but Nick was playing on the stage and I liked all the the solo stuff. But solo stuff is really interesting. Yeah, they well they kind of like tell you here's what you should be doing at this part, but you can kind of hit whatever in these confines to score well, uh, and it'll sound good because they've done the read the math on that to figure out how to make a solo sound good even if you're just kind of just hitting whatever. Yeah, but if you hit whatever and time at whatever, it still sounds like shit, it'll be in key, but it'll be in key garbage. Yeah. So yeah, that that that's but that part's so strange. But yeah, I sucked around with that and just kind of actually solo through an entire song. They have just a weird dev mode in there. We just turn it on and go and it's fun. And there's loads of different ways of doing it because obviously they have the bottom buttons and they kind of that you can do the hammerons again, but they also like make different noises if you like tilt the head back at certain times. At those different types of solos and stuff. It's like five different ways of doing it system. It doesn't seem like you'd be able to do this based on kind of they were like, oh, I feel like there should be a way to play that song's exact solo in their freestyle. Moyeah, Like that's the ideal, right, it should be versatile enough to approximate the real solo, but also let you kind of play other stuff too. I mean, obviously you can turn it off if you just want to play the charted real solo, But wouldn't it be cool if you could just freestyle out the regular solo and then get an extra bonus, like dude, You're sucking out of your mind? Like that should be it should be called the dude You're fucking out of your mind bonus. Like I wonder if if in a way that would also appeal to the sort of the you know, common garden party mode player who does Like the problem with many games that you say, do whatever you want is that people do I don't know what I'm supposed to do, and it like if it's a forty minute second solo when they're just like hitting around the buttons at the party and like like there is a certain joy to being told what to do as well, right, and there's a framework to it, you know, so it'll be like, you know, when in this this narrow line appears, that's when you're supposed to hit one note and hold it for the entire measure, or and it's a swirly line that means tilt the guitar up or play up on, play up in the neck or play down in the neck. Like they're kind of giving you that information, so it's not just like here you go fucking dick around, yeah, because you know that that's not as interesting. Uh yeah, I think that stuff is smart like that. The vocal harmony stuff, like the changes they're making are intelligent to the way that you know, like without like totally reinventing rock band. But it's it's I don't know, it's smart stuff. Yeah. And if they get that backwards compatibility stuff right, then that's awesome. It's like the Xbox three sixty backwards compatibi anything. It's like, oh yeah, all that stuff I bought actually great, it's all here. On top of that, it's like the opposite of what do you expect to happen in the day and age, and yeah, yeah, you kind of expect the worst of any kind of business influenced decision like that. Yeah, they're saying they'll have like fifteen hundred songs at launch for that thing, you know that'll that'll come in if you already own them, right, assuming you bought them on the same console family. Yeah, which is probably pretty awkward for a lot of people who went from three sixty to PS four people have done. Yeah, like that's that's it's uh, it's kind of unfortunate. Really. Microsoft must be super fucking stokes, I know, right. Yeah, Like the Xbox One is almost getting cheap enough that you could see some people just saying a fuck it, I'll get an Xbox just to keep using all the DLC. Hey if you've got a pair of drums that work on PlayStation consoles and not on the other one, Yeah, they probably would do that. Yeah, it's gonna save you a bunch of cash. Then you guys played the Division, Yeah, I guess yeah. Yeah. I've got a couple of questions about that. Is that is that an open world game? The demo they were showing was not. But it's hard like because they wouldn't they wouldn't talk about. The thing they had was like a three on three on three thing where you were getting a piece of loot and then you had to extract it via helicopter, and the zone where you could call for the helicopter was the same zone that the other two teams of three were extracting from. And you had that it was like a cannon lynch sort of thing where you could turn on the other team, right, you could go rogue to try to steal their loot and then extract all of it for yourself. You don't have to. You could just kind of have this uneasy truce with people and everybody just take turns extracting. Yeah, presumably if you gut got then you lose all your stuff you've collected as well. Yeah. Yeah, but if you if you don't go rogue, I think you might still be good. But I think if you go rogue, then you can lose the loot. I think that part was maybe a little unclear as well. But you know, they weren't literally showing inventory screens or like how you equip stuff or how you get into that mode or if it's like like it just felt like a three on three on three multiplayer match that you would go to a menu, hit match making and go. But my understanding is that game is an open world. I have no fucking ideas. So I interviewed one of the guys, and I just because you've actually played it, so I wanted like clarification because the stuff he was talking about made it sound like there is a hub area, which is like your Destiny style little you know, trading post and you physically walk out of that and then you're in the open world. And what they were showing this like mode thing was in like a dark zone, so like that's an area you walk to and then jump over the fence and then basically with the right the fence seems like that's where the instance starts. So that's exactly what the cam's demo with the kind of forced like chatter at the UBSAFT press conference, that's exactly how that made that seem It seemed like they were out there as a squad already doing something else and then they saw the kind of the you know, there was that barricade like that quarantine area that you climbed up, Yeah, and it seemed like they like because one of the players said something about it, like oh, you want to head into the dark zone or something, and so they just climbed over to that thing and then they were in it. You know, they figured out a way of like getting all those game modes to connect together. Yeah, and just by stripping out of UI, like that's kind of cool, that's what Destiny is missing. Yeah, Like it sounds like the same kind of game, but Destiny is very chopped up and kind of compartmentalized, whereas this sounds like if everything is seamlessly connected and put together like that, that sounds super cool. Yes, yeah, and it I thought it felt all right, yeah, and that sort of stuff. It's just hard to get a read on what that product is based on. They're showing how did it. Yeah, the and he played it, and he said it felt very like Alpha Protocol. He almost in the snapping this stuff, like he said, it felt more like an RPG shooter than a shooter at RPC. The weapons I had were not especially precise. I think we came away from that thing saying it feels like a ub Soft shooter, right, Okay, you know, like it's not it feels like a lot of their other games with guns in them, and that you know, it's this third person thing and and you know, you're like the ghostree Con is opposed to far Cry War or whatever. Yeah, like it felt kind of slow, Yeah, but not to the point where it was like military sim deliberate or anything like that. It just felt a little slow. So I'm not sure. And it's it's it seems like it could be really cool, but it might be a tragedy. Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't look half as pretty as it did about a year ago. I thought it still looked pretty nice. That it doesn't look terrible, but it does not look like that first INMO they showed. No, I guess not. I don't. That's kind of watch it, but it's kind of been their MO for the last couple of games, right whatever, well watched being the infamous example. Yeah, uh, Danny, I'm curious. Did you have anybody come through to talk about mass effect at all? No? You didn't hear a word for okay. No, it's probably because I was tweeting pictures of Gene Roddenberry's on Drameda all week. It should be never seen it, but yes, I've never seen it. Yeah, fixed that problem, get this, dont no nonsense. Hey look at his lady, she's pink. Okay, go on, Hey look at his dude. He looks like an old fashioned doughnut that's gone, cat's eating. It's pretty good and Drameda is solid. Yeah, okay, as for the game and no, nothing, okay, then maybe they didn't have anybody out there answering any questions. And then I was wondering if you know, it always happens to be three, you know, like they announced a game and don't say much, but then you hear like little tidbits are getting out there, three interviews and stuff like that. So yeah, curious if it doesn't sound like they'd have done any real press for that thing yet. And then there's just some games that just didn't seem to be there at all, Like that Criterion thing from last year. Ye oh, yeah, the Witness. I don't know if that was. Yeah, I noticed there was a conspicuous add but I bet I bet it might have been just on a chiosk somewhere in the booth or something. But I walked around. I didn't see it either. Yeah, I canvass the sony booth, I saw nothing. I think that's the point where it's like, hey, the Witness is gonna get done. From the sound from the sound of their development blog, yeah, it sounds like they're in the final Great have they said this year final push? Kind we've ever said for real? But like Jonathan Blow has been out there on Twitter quoting a bunch of definitive stats about like here's how long our playthroughs are taking in play tests now, Like, here's how many puzzles there are. Like the numbers sound pretty nailed down, so I hope that's coming soon. But all right, I guess that was E three. Did any guys play Sea of Thieves unless No, it was not there, not at all, Like I like, I even at the the Monday Night event they had. I asked about it and they were like, yeah, we're not we we wanted to announce that and show some stuff from it, but we're not doing any interviews. We're not taking like questions yet. It's probably a good thing they did, because the first question people ask when they see the thirty rare collection is where's your new games? Yeah? Yeah, you guys are going to be allowed to make a new game. God, I totally forgot about that until you just mentioned it. I connection like for thirty I met to see of Thieves collection sounds cool. I totally will get that. But like, see he's looking fine. Yeah that looked really cool. Yeah, did you know how many gamer points are in the collection? Thousand and ten thousand in the thousand, it's a lot of points. That's a lot. But like some of those games are long, it's it's both Viva Pinata games. Yeah, cameos in there, games that have already had like lengthy catalogs before. Then there's stuff like RC pro Am, Dude, r C pro Am. You gotta spell Nintendo a lot, and I want to know what's going to happen if you have to fucking spell Nintendo in that game. I think they're gonna leave that in there. I guess they will. I don't know, huh. I had actually thought about that. You collect letters that spell Nintendo in that Never Microsoft is just slightly harder. Trying to think of some other Yeah, some other eight eight letter connect Sonoda something something. All right, No, that is I'm gonna call it into our E three wrap up unless anybody else has any other stuff to go over. I think that's everything I saw. Yeah, I mean we talked about the hollow and stuff already on yo. Yeah. So if you haven't if you haven't seen, seen or heard all the stuff from our E three evening shows, it's all on the site. Yeah, it's all in the audios, all in this in this very podcast. Friendships are forged and broken. Yes, in the course of those shows, I'd maybe say watched the video for the end of day three, it might be worth it. Yeah. I was visualizing it on an airplane last night, coming home, laughing hysterically while the poor woman beside me played iPhone games and kept looking at me, obnoxious boy, Who is this lunatic? All right, this is probably the part where I say that there's no more news, and then Jeff, you mentioned the one thing that this news. Oh yeah, right, the game stop is selling old games, like really old games, like eight Nintendo games and Genesis cartridges and shit. So we we I don't know if Dreamcast game you might have been out that week, I can't remember, but we talked about so they were got that programming. It got out there that they were they were taking trade ins on that stuff. Yeah, and now they're selling it on their website for what appears to be somewhat higher than eBay price. Really, yeah, are you supposed to be able to trade them in at the brick and mortar stores and then they just send it to the warehouse or whatever? Probably that was that's what I understood. Yeah, any any prices that you can rattle off because that because there was like a cell sheet that got out I want to say, like punch Out was like twenty five bucks, but it's my tyson to punch Out, not dream. Yeah, you know consoles, they had the top loader a NES with a dog Bone controller for like sixty bucks, which that sounds reasonable. I don't I haven't checked recent prices. If it were, if it's like guaranteed to work, they're saying refurbished with next to that one on their site, So yeah, I don't know. Like the prices didn't seem out of control as long as unless you're the sort of person that likes to go out and hunt deals and go to flea market and sift through that stuff. Then you know, obviously you can find those games for a fraction of what you can find them for on eBay or any of the other stuff. And it remains to be seen what this will do to the market for you know, those sorts of games, like if everyone jacks up their prices or what. But yeah, it's as interesting move, but it didn't seem like a particularly great deal at any point either. Can you trade in software in that as well? I think so, because that that might actually mess up the markets, because then if people are just gonna go, oh fuck it, I'll go to game stop and trade in all the games on my console instead of a flea market where they might get under cut. Right, But but no, I'm well, I mean you have to imagine that they could get more to flea market for them than fucking game Stop would pay for it, because I'm sure they're I'm sure their offers are not great. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's an interesting move for them, Like game Stop is a super weird thing. You know, what does that test about them? That they'd like they're just sting the buying iPhones and old games and all the other stuff that are not current console games because they need to diversify as much as possible. Yeah, yeah, for when for when the all digital future consumes them or something, right, I mean they need to have a fallback plan. I don't know, So it seems like they're just kind of spreading out, trying different ship they had. They had kind of a stay of execution when the DRM was surrendered, right totally, but was pushed back exactly one generation. Yeah, yeah, but we'll see what happens next time. I wonder how much Dreamcast with Chen MoU we are going for a right about apparently the prior I did see a couple of people saying that eBay prices for chen Mo and schen MoU two went way up. That's ridiculous. And now I realize I have like some sealed copies of s sitting somewhere. I should move while the that I bought from Segast fire sale. Every time you bring that up, I just feel a little tlinge yeah, that I should maybe think about moving. I don't know. I wonder what that would get spe the double No, I need check the kickstarter. Oh you guess four a minute, three forty five? What did they say today? They needed ten million to have like all the features of a full open world. Fucking I don't know, man, I think that's what they said. Ten million on the Kickstarter. I think ten million total total on the Kickstarter. I think maybe it was maybe maybe there are there are large groups of people who are trying to let you know that Sony are only spending marketing bucks on this. Is that what they said? That's apparently I saw some interview at Adam Boys on a different publication that was basically saying that oh wow, not no development funds. I don't know, but you know, or maybe there is and they're just not talking about it. Who knows Sony's really I mean, will you know they they're the ones that went out there and said, what games do you want to see? Here's our hashtag. At some point it would be disingenuous for them to not actually build the lit after and inviting people to build the list. I guess, so them getting into the shen Move business makes sense and and bless them because you know it'll shut these people up for a good long few years here before start right before they start demanding Shin Move forward, right, never hear have to hear about Shin Move three or Final fantsy seven remake again. Yeah, our Last Guardian right at you know, for the next three or four years when they don't come out. Oh sure, yeah, this Last Guardian thing is gonna be real bummer when they decided to retrofit it for Morpheus and play like twenty eighteen Final Fintacy seven. If that's the game they're making, If what we saw was not just a cut scene that's in that game, then that game's I went for a while. It's a long game. Yeah, I mean, what was it they were they were going to say when it was coming out this winter. Oh right, they already have, like we'll have more of this winter about when it's about other stuff involving the release of this game we won twenty seventeen. Yeah, i'd be optimistic. Well what would the game come out in ninety seven? Yeah? Yes, sEH yeah, yeah, god now if you know? Yeah, all right, Well should we take some emails? Yes? I forgot how to do this? See emails? Emails. There you go, Then you say email. I was almost going to ask you another E three question within asking podcast is getting long enough that it's kind of either that or the emails. So how long could this question? Possibly? It's one sentence reply. It's kind of a topic of discussion, one sentence reply, uh, pertaining to how you felt coming out of E three about the state of the show, and it's it's ongoing necessity great in the modern video game industry, I think that there's some great games out there. I think that most companies probably don't need E three to announce said games. They're large enough to have events with their own or there or they can. The internet is vast, you can support these announcements without a pick show. I think you're right, the only the only place I can think of where it's really really required, as stuff like VR headsets, you know, like you kind of have to be there to see stuff like this. Yeah, but but Oculus had their very own press conference, true, like they could have where they didn't let people use it right. Well, yeah, but they could have made that bigger. You know, Sony could have its own event for Morpheus at some point. There's there's other ways for that stuff to happen that are probably actually cheaper in the long run. Its just it felt a little thin attendance wise. Somebody somebody who's saying the ESA, we'll put out attendance numbers. I don't know if they always do or not. I think they always did. Like they was out there saying like we're gonna let five thousand people on the show floor via which I never saw anyone with that, and I never I never heard of any publishers saying, hey, here's how you can get into E three. I never saw one contest about that stuff or anything like that either, like Kanye West one one apparently. Yeah. Yeah, but but yes, the show floor seemed light. It was it was easy to get from place to place. I really appreciated that a lot yeah, Like yeah, going in and seeing that five thousand, like, oh god, you're gonna pile another five thousand people into that and see of humanity that already isn't there. But even with that, like it almost made me wonder if like attendance, like the registration numbers were down right and they saw going in like oh, it's kind of a light year. We should like at it out a little bit, all right. I don't know who can say like ultimately, once the online numbers are pretty high, is not worth it? Like even if you'd like split up all these conferences across the rest of the year, would you still get that like that much attention. Like I was doing interviews with like you know, you know, like the radio stations, all the CBS affiliates get right like that sort of maybe there's just a critical mass of attention and eyeballs, Like it's there's that mainstream press stuff that that I guess does still happen here and there. But but yeah, in terms of like you know, like publishers want to get the message out themselves, like the need of the press to be involved in that process, Like they don't want the press in that loop. They just want to post trailers to their YouTube channel and say go watch this shit, uh and and move on. You know, Uh, they don't necessarily and you know, you could have press conference twice a week if they wanted to do. They used to have one, a random one during the year. Yeah, yeah, in July. You know, they'd have their their post E three thing, their summer thing, and like a bunch of news and stuff would come out of that. Yeah. But there's the almost just did it at E three because why not. We probably wouldn't see that one next year, right, I bet not. I bet they won't. You know, that'll probably something they did because they had the lineup to do it. Yeah, and they probably don't need to do it next year unless they have a lineup that's just as strong. But I can't imagine that. Yeah, Like, like you know, BGS only puts out a game every like four years at this point, like Doom will be out. It's hard to say. You know though, I'd probably have Dishonored this time next year, But I don't know what else. I think they've run ahead of IPS to do big announcements with Brink's Brink cross Wet actually starring Dick Morsenko yeah, all right, emails, let's talk about a few just a handful podcast chap, I'm losing my voice. I can feel it happens. Uh, David and Tucson right Son? About Chicago game developers? What is it about Chicago? Yeah that game developers from there are prone towards madness and being monsters. Anytime you guys assemble two or more of them in a room, tremendous things happen. How is it that Ed Boone is super cool and chill despite being forged in the fires of Midway? Ed is there long enough that he is? He has consumed the madness and he's totally fine. Yeah, he's integrated it. Yeah. And Seth Killian moved before it got him. So was he at Midway? No? No, I don't think he worked in Maybe he didn't work at a Chicago game yet, but he is he is from Chicago. Yeah, okay, So let's straight up proper video game Illuminati coming out of shydown at this pool feature. No, man, they're all over the place. Tony Hawk five, they're taking over dive kick three, yep, ricket here two. It's all come out of there. Yeah. Uh, this email comes from a person who asks not to read their name. It's spending a long debate between me and my friends. Is just cause supposed to be just cause as in I have a just cause to blow shit up, or just cause as in I'm blowing shit up just cause? Both work? I think you got it. Yeah, I think the answer is yes. Yes, sometimes things mean more than one thing. And it's delightful. That game looks all right. Yeah, that game plays pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. I was shocked that they were not letting a bunch of people play that game at the show. I know it wasn't playable to booth and I don't think people even got the appointments got to play exactly. Yes, we had an interactive trailer on our show where they were like pick a B or C and we'll do it, which actually I really enjoyed that sounds kind of they were doing that like every couple hours on like their stage show. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we got the whole statue slapping himself in the face things and great, yeah, roll the ball through around like there was this one moment where it's like, how do you want to blow up the bridge? And I use a helicopter. Let's see what happens and he blows up the helicopters. Is a great shot where it's like boom, boom boom, shows the whole thing. And then this panning shot of like some poor dude who was just on his motorbike coming up to the bridge and suddenly the bridge is gone and he can't break fast enough and he's goes oh at the top and I was like, yeah, game looks so good. Jessica Rico Rodriguez hardest working man in video games Mediterranean. Now it's good stuff. E three emails. You knew it was gonna happen. This one comes in from Shamus and Halifax, Nova Scotia. Great name. I had a question regarding the continued relevance of E three. Hey, we just talked about that. It seems like every year at least one of the three major names and video games skips at least one of the major events of the year, like Sony this year in games Colm, but this never seems to be the case with E three. With Dan's potentially spooky accurate answer of four more E three is on the Sealed Envelope podcast. My question is which one of Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo will be the first to skip out on E three entirely, And how soon do you think it will be before that happens. I don't think it'll be Nintendo because it seems like they're doing a pretty good thing these directs. Really, I mean, they've backed out of it, you know, they've they've backed out of a pretty expensive thing for them by not doing the press conference anymore. I would. I like the directs a lot, and they can't be, like, you know, compared to putting on a huge stage show, it can't be nearly as much work. So I could see them just kind of writing it out. I don't know how popular Nintendo's push was this year. Yeah, line up was kind of weak. And then I mean, you know, booths are super expensive, like that is not an insignificant cost. But if they've got hardware next year, yeah, to show, maybe not to launch, No, surely, I don't know. I don't know. There was a there was a discussion on Twitter just amongst random people this morning about the an X release date. Some people seem to think it'll be holiday next year. I think I think they're crazy. Yeah, I think that's too soon. I think Holiday twenty seventeen. There's a lot more realistic. I think so too that that sounds reasonable to me. Zelda next holiday. They kind of said they would have more news on the concert in twenty sixteen, which to me doesn't say it's shipping twenty six Yeah, and you know, if you look back, they announced or they they showed some of the stuff from the EU, which at the time was unnamed. Yeah, the E three before the year it came out, right, so we u was at two E threes. But the same thing as like the earlier they talk about it. The more they cannibalize exist existing hardware sales depending on what that thing is, if it replaces the three DS or the WU or both, you know, it starts to cut into their ability to sell those things, so they can't announce it too early. But then the sales of those things are maybe at least the way you are, not such that they are something that to be cannibalized, because there's not that much happening at all, edged not much to cut into their Yeah, I don't know. I would be kind of a bummed if if another Zelda game ended up slipping from the platform it was announced on and moving to the next one, like it would be kind of cool. If they just saw that through and got it out there, I don't care. I mean, you know, if as long as the game comes out and it is good, I don't care where it ends up. Well, but presumably it would get pushed, you know, it would probably come out a lot later than it would have otherwise. Yeah, that's fine too. Whatever, you know, like make it good, and if the NX is a cool system with way more potential than their existing stuff, then it could be a much better game, right, I mean, well, but I mean look at what they do with Twilight Princess and the Wii. I mean, it's not like Twilight Princess was a much better game because they pushed it, you know, to the Wei. No, No, it definitely was not. But you know, like those mistakes were not the fault of what platform it was on one way or the other. It's just like the design itself was kind of bland. Ye. Yeah, all right, Rich from Japan has a question about console load times. Rich lives in Japan. He does, Yeah, he does. He's all over the place. Hey, guys, I'm living in Japan currently and my only things to play games with are a Vita and a rather awful laptop that chugs playing axiom Verge. There are plenty of new games that I want to play, but the load times on the current GIN systems sound pretty terrible. Are they bad enough to force me to save up for a bit and buy a beefy PC? Japanese apartment sizes and the fact i'll move in the nearest future are pushing me away from building one. I'm not sure what to do. What do you say? Outside of some examples, I haven't thought it that bad on this generation. Like you know, blood Born was an a liar? Some of them are? Were you saying the Wincher's bad? That was an on Xbox? It's fine? Really, It's like, I don't know, man, I sit on my catch and I play games. I got a smart phone. If it takes a while, I just I mean, go on Instagram, you guys. You guys say that, But I feel like if you have time to pick up a phone and go look at something, they're too long, and you and your video games the last ninety minutes of people creep in and buying stuff and got places to be Like, I don't know that This argument seems to be going on forever. Where it's like, oh, the PC games run faster than the like Lottle times have never really gotten not long, have they. No, that's the thing. I think they're worse. They're starting to get bad. But it is I think it's the the case where they're only bad if it's if it feels like a punishment at some point, like you know and blood Born when you die got sucked and then you have to sit there for a while before you get to try again. It's the it's the Tony Hawk effect like but the opposite of it, you know, where it's like, I just want to get another fucking run of this thing while I'm still hot, and there's too much cool down time to where you're like, yeah, I guess I'll just turn it off. I don't know, like you you cool down too much between attempts. That is a lot of it. If you if you see if like if you have a sixty second load that you see once when you start the game, whatever, it's not the end of the world. But like like the Witcher, it was exacerbated because like I played it on a higher difficulty because everybody said too yeah, and early on, when you're not leveled, you died anything, and I was dying, like you know, you die like three times in a row on a boss or something, and at that point you're like, fuck, I just want to turn this off. This isn't tolerable. I've always liked the rock Star approach, you know, like I think they started doing that with Vice City maybe where it's just like okay, here's maybe like sixty seconds at the beginning, and then yeah, I think Red did did it too, and then you don't really have to worry about it as that. Yeah. Uh yeah, I feel like you've you've been playing games on a Vita, and I played games on a Vita loss, You're probably gonna be okay when next gen load times Yeah, like load times on a Vida pretty Yeah, they're bad in a lot of cases. Batman Arkham Knight pretty good, load times pretty snap's snappy. Also, I totally forgot to talk about Arkham Knight on this podcast. Watch the quick Look were Giant bomb dot com. Yes, you can hear us talk about Batman Arkham Knight. They see it as well. Yeah, that's true. That game, it's pretty good. Some of the Batmobile stuff is questionable, still still fun. Some of the story stuff that you showed me in that quick look kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Yeah, yes, that's well, Yes, you'll see what he's talking about. I I like where they're going with it. If they make good on it, Yeah, maybe we'll see more to come on that game. Uh, let's see. How about all these emails are about E three? What else would they be about? Yeah, I guess you're right. I can't even think three. Yeah, I'm still there in a weird way. And it's haze around today. Haze too, didn't get it. Ye's looking at the release schedule and July and August they are both a whole lot of nothing. Really. Yeah, there's like God of War three remastered, and I mean when that's one of the bigger ones, that's saying something Gearster that rare things Outears Remester August twenty. They haven't shown it yet, right, Wow. Also, did not demo suck real bad? The betas the Gears four one. Oh yeah, I thought that was not a great demo. But yeah, the Gears Beta. I played a little bit of that over the week. H It just kind of reminded me that I am not a huge fan of multiplayer Gears of war anymore? So is there there's a beta for that now? Yep, it's over. Launch three, it's over. It's over. It's time to hear this. But but yes, uh yeah, that's the bummer about stuff launching for a week. Like I felt like there were several instances of like, we're doing it for a week starting today, and it's like I'm gonna be gone for exactly a week. The game come out. Last year, something come out the weekend. Usually, like most of the last few years, there's been at least one big game, and we're like Last of the Infamous two came out three week Last of Us. It might have been the week I was thinking Infamous Second Sign never mind, go ahead, I think it was Infamous too, Yeah, the Second Sign, And I remember like being was January. Where the fuck is our copy? Mass? Yeah? I think Last of Us was right around That sounds about the week before. Yeah, yeah, because they were at there and they had a booth and people. It was like it was weird because the game had been as Yeah, Fallout Shelter came out last sure did. We didn't talk about that either. That game is hard. Yeah, I can't. I'm not sure if I like it, but I keep playing it. I have stopped playing it. How far did you get? I don't know how many people did you get? I guess it is the is the progression mature? Okay, I don't know. I have to like low thirties. I keep getting two bored to wait for the count DWN timer to go down. Yeah everything no no, yeah, well then everything goes on fired fucking stimpacks take forever to make, so then I put it down and then I go back to it, and then like they're already, but the like production stops and people get sad real quick. So it's last night. I said, ok, I'm gonna play for thirty minutes, and it was way better like playing it after a while. But it doesn't have timers or you know, transactions the same way free free to play game would have. But it still has that like you need to wait, come back, you need to check, but you need to come back every three or five minutes. Yeah, and that sucks or like every I'm down to like every like it's in a it's in a really shitty zone where it's like you kind of come back every two minutes, yeah, which is just too long to wait. But it's also not long enough to Also, I keep forgetting or I keep sending out my best people into the waste land to scavenge and then forgetting and then coming back the next morning and they're all dead. Do you have to recall them manually? Yeah? Okay, that explains why they never make it back up. Okay, all right, yeah, but it's okay because sometimes they collect more stuff to like, oh yeah, like I had one girl die and she had like four hundred caps and it cost one hundred and seventy Reviver and she also had like like four guns, and yeah, I wish I could show you. I said, I sent my level fifteen guy out overnight and he came back with like eight guns and four suits of armor. Like it was just a fucking cornucopia of junk. Do you get any lunch boxes? Just like so you get that run of them at the beginning, like when you first start playing the game, they're super generous with the lunch boxes. I actually got some good stuff out of there. I got some like kind of rare suits and like a really great Gauss rifle. Of course you do, because then they want you course, yeah totally, but uh, the only way to increase population really early on is just to breed people like crazy, which a is very tedious and beamed. That is just super creepy. You know, it's just like, hey, you you're running the power station, Well not anymore. Get in there and spawn. Well you're just you're just giving them a break and giving them a lot of free time. And whatever happens happens they do. Left to the left of their own devices, you'll find the people will get to humping. I guess yeah they do. They do tend to come out smiling. Uh you get the name their children stupid shit like like fuck oh, I name all the kids fuck online. It's great and they grow up to be fuck us. Yeah. I started becoming concerned about because you don't I at least I certainly don't pay attention to who I'm putting together, just like whoever's free at the moment, about the amount of d breeding that might be going on in the vault. I mean, that's just always gonna happen. I guess, so, yeah, charisma, get them in there. Yeah they bone like immediately, Oh is that yeah? I mean a new charisma. It was the stat for that room. But I got some really effect what that would have. My babies are super guys man. That was the other thing. I started looking at which stats to pair with the with each other to produce like more viable babies, and I just started feeling gist. Yeah totally. It was awful. Yeah, I'm not sure about that game. If an't of them come out color Blind slit Throats, they're not gonna make it in the wasteland. It's rough out there. Oh, man, should read more emails. Uh, here's one not about E three. Oh they did not give their their actual name. I listened to the two thousand and eight Game of the Year podcast this week and I was, yeah, totally. And I noticed everybody seems to really adore the games of that year. This got me wondering, what is one of your favorite years in gaming? I go with two thousand and one. That was you saw two Grand Theft Auto three, Final Fantasy ten, Halo, Smash Brothers, Melee God, that's a twisted metal black Grand Trasmo three. It was a that's a it was a ludicrous here, it's a loaded year. I hadn't really thought about that. It was the launch year of GameCube and Xbox, and also it was the year that you know, PlayStation actually started getting some stuff beyond that initial lone. Yeah, that's solid. I hadn't had to add that one of the pantheon. Yeah, oh one was great. I mean, nineteen ninety eight is my standard answer, and like, I don't think we'll ever be topped. Yeah, because just like none of your solid Occo time, StarCraft, Half Life, like so many seminal games, you know, like not just important big games, but like the first of their kind in a lot of ways. You know, a bad sequels Halo two, Half Life two, World of Warcraft, Son Andreas, Doom three, two fours and four. Yea, it's not bad. It's okay. I've seen a lot of people referring to two thousand and seven is a really good year. But I barely remember, like that was three, that would have been oblivion monit. Wait, oh, you're right, because Xbox three six came out, no five? Right? Was it? Really? It was Bioshop Maybe it was a very early oh eight, Mass Effect, Halo three, Call of Duty, Modern Warfare, BioShock, Galaxy Portal, and The Witcher, Uncharted Crisis. It's pretty good. Yeah, that's solid. Yeah, hmm, okay, wait, Skate mass fact Skate Skate massfect was twenty seven. You're right, yeah, yeah, because BioShock All right, O seven it's a good one. Yeah, it's good solid. I feel like twenty fifteen shaping up to be Yeah, pretty damn good so far. Yeah. I've played a lot of games that I feel very strongly about. There's still a lot of good stuff left to come. Yeah, well there four TikTok. Yeah, we'll see. It's still hold onto that. No, No, I don't have to eat a hat since I was right about that's true. Yeah, lucky you and make you a hat made of mayonnaise and you're gonna have to sounds like a terrible hat and a terrible thing to eat. Jay from Nebraska. After watching E three, I feel like both Microsoft and Sony brought a lot to the table, but Sony was definitely lacking anything really tangible. When I say that, I mean the bombs they dropped aren't dropping for one point five to two years A final fantasy Shinmu and Last Guardian or five years perhaps indeed uncharted four while Amazing was a one hundred percent expected and no man Sky still doesn't have a firm date. The big thing I found across the board is that many are dismissing Microsoft greatly. Will Microsoft ever climb out of the hole they created during launch? They've been knocking out of the park except for master Chief Collection. But Phil Spencer was as honest as you can be in that situation. There are no excuses. They just have to do better. I own both consoles and thoroughly enjoy reading news and forums, but I can't remember a time when the community was this toxic on both sides. Has it always been this bad? Or am I just more keen to it nowadays? Yeah? I mean you got to remember that at one point, Sega made a console and those people are lunatics and were and we're seeing that, we are seeing them come home to roosts now like someone who was there. Uh, they were always the worst. They were all always the worst, the most death thready, the just the yes, the Sega fans Dreamcast era, especially Saturn, when they were just fucking taking it NonStop, just like no nothing, you know, the Saturn just watching it fucking dismally fail. Like those people got fucking frantic fast. Yeah, they got theirs and then Dreamcast was their moment to turn around and like noing it's fine, and then when that thing fell apart, like they just yeah it was. I love a lot of Sega products, but yeah, most toxic fan base of all time. That's that's really saying something too, Yeah, because most of them are pretty bad. Yeah, I mean definitely the hardware. Are you saying, like even like series hardware in particular hardware, but now there's no hardware. They've like they've put that fandom into even weirder, more obscure pockets and it's like scarier and someone audiences just those people. Yeah shit, yes, it's just those people they must feel right now. But yeah, I don't know, Like the stuff these days is weird because it's like, you know, Sony has its whole like like Sony had the right message at the right time, and you know, they're their own games haven't been you know, they'll say it themselves. It's like that they have a sparse lineup this year. You can still find people that will go like, no, you're discounting the impact of Uncharted four, and it's like, no, I'm actually not. We're fully aware of what's coming out. It's fully aware of what's coming out and and kind of how those things tend to sell compared to some of the other stuff that hits the shelves. And you know, I meanwhile, Microsoft has its games that you know that's are like Mountain Dew level fucking shit in some cases the Halo of the well just Halo pretty much. And they're starting to hit their marks. Like Microsoft was deep fucked for a long time and there you were, you were watching them slowly unfucked themselves. And meanwhile, Sony, like what does Sony have fantastic fucking third party support? Microsoft gets almost all of those games too. Uh, and at some point that probably changes if Sony doesn't get its act together on the first party front. Uh. And like they're like I think Horizon looks fucking killer, Like it's one of the coolest things I saw the show totally, but like the rest of that stuff, Like you know, sure, I guess like they need they absolutely need to put The Last Guardian out, if only to get it off the fucking books. I'm really sad it's not coming out this year, just like so we can play it and move on with our lives. But yeah, like it's that's not something that's gonna you know, like Last Guardian is not going to be some fucking zillion unit seller for them, Like it'll be cool, I'm sure, but right the only the only one of those, that one is the only one of the three like dream announcements from that press conference that I could see doing actual deal. But that's a third party game that's you know, that's first on playstage, you know, like that that will come everywhere, yeah, presumably. Uh. Meanwhile, on the third party end, they fucking have a Street Fight or five and it's not coming to Xbox. Like that's like it's it's this weird thing where like they're the third party side is fucking like doing stuff. Uh. And and you know, but at the same time, the vast majority of those games will come to the Xbox at some point like between Microsoft like fucking fixing its shit, uh and you know, like marketing stuff, like getting aggressive on price as they have been, Like you have to imagine at some point that'll take if not in the kind of pockets of people come you know that really truly care about this stuff, and then in a mainstream way that the sales the sales stuff could change, and so you know, it's like it's it's not over. You know, there's no, like, you know, you know, like this generation is still going to go for a bit and it's it's real weird. It's real weird. I don't know, Like I still prefer playing games on the PS four because I think they got a better controller. Yeah, I do too, Like the it's still a more straightforward experience, although that new Xbox UI is going to close the gap to some degree in terms of just basic usability. Sure, yeah, yeah, there's some stuff the Xbox does better in terms of like you know, automated cloud saves and yep, yeah, I was gonna play some Payday two today and then I realized that my PS four at home did not push the save up last night as it should have, and so I was fucked and I was like, man, they need to fucking do something about that. Yeah, there's definitely system level stuff that I think they both, you know, but again, like you know, Microsoft bungled so much fucking shit out straight that you talk to people about that thing there, you know, the people that don't stay up on this stuff are probably still going like, no, you gotta be on the internet for that. Yeah, and you know, and that's gonna fucking there will be some people that think that that's what that system is until the day it gets replaced by new hardware. Well, I think that what this guy's writing about, writing in about is more the people who are well aware that that's not the case anymore. But still we both bear this bizarre, decated grudge about it. I don't know. He says, the Microsoft doug a hole. But it was a deep hole. It's a deep fun You're right about that. It was a deep fold. It was. It was a deep enough hole that a fifty dollars price cut didn't actually fix it. But they're still fucked sure, you know. But yeah, like they're cleaning up, you know, like the people that took over that division, like our janitors practically like cleaning up after the old regime. But they're getting there. Don Mattrick just spread yeah poop, he put he put did the VR pants shitting thing, but didn't but he did it fully nude, And it's been a mess around there ever since. And yeah, that's right. Yeah, So like that's the thing is, like, you know, like it's easy to look at, like the sales stuff and and and Sony has all the kind of hearts and mind stuff like this, Their press conference is a perfect example of that, like catering to that specific crowd that is stuck by them through this generation. Uh and you know that's I think that's a smart move for them. It seems like calculated to be said that way, the same way you know, Microsoft's backwards compatibility seems calculated to speak to the three sixty owners that have not made a choice yet. Yeah, and get hey, you know a new halo in the New Gears is going to go a long way to getting those people on board as well. Yeah. Probably. Yeah, I wish that it was like new IP, new exciting fun experiences that would get those people on board instead of just like here's another one of these, and two and a remake of one of these and another one of these. Like that's a bummer, But that's the reality of it, I guess. Uh So this guy's question though about whether you know this kind of toxicity and the video game community has always been around. The answers, Yes, yeah, it's just you know, it's it's way more visible because of you know, Twitter and Facebook. Yeah, they're this kind of this kind of idiotic tribalism and console fandom has been around since there were consoles I mean it's it's it's not just it's os as, it's cars, it's phones, it's you know, you cant versus iPhone is just as bad. Dig into any fucking market where there are two competitors with different approaches, you're going to find the same bullshit. It's you know, Forward versus Chevy forever. It's just the Internet though, because I remember in like ninety three it was just a dude with a ponytail and a funkle land fund of me for buying Sega again yeah you know. Yeah, Now now it's just highly visible on every forum. They used to have to drive up the street before someone would shout out dead and you go like, it's my mom's Bronco. I don't even care, Like, what do you? Human beings are terrible? Oh yeah, is really what we're getting at here, totally Like everyone wants to justify the thing that they bought, and especially when they can't afford to buy the other thing. Yep, yep, they're gonna fucking lash out of that thing. You know. It's like that's not cool because I didn't buy that one. Fuck that one. Yeah. But if you know, if you if you integrate a multi billion dollar conglomerate and it's products as a core part of your identity, maybe step back and take a long, hard look at your life, yeah, and and think about it a little bits. If you're just like, yeah, man, Apple, that's where it's at. Man, love those guys, Like I think they make good products. But if someone came along and made better products, I'd fucking a bail on that ship in a heartbeat. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, what gets me more if I cared enough? Because I think there are some Android phones and some Windows phones even that are like, technically, I like this, it's a better camera, that's a faster there's a better screen. But fucking but the things I don't care about phones anymore. Yes, there's there's being slavishly adherent to a thing and that there's just not caring enough to change in some cases, you know, yeah whatever. Games are cool. Yeah, oh yes, games are cool wherever you can play them on in a lot of different places, and chances are you'll find some cool ones no matter which place you go. And that's rad, glorious age we live. Buy a new video card. In conclusion, buy a new video card. Oh they're so expensive. Fuck nine eighty t I holy shit, what about like seven hundred bucks or some sec hundred bucks. I think it might have come down. Amazon was actually gouging the price for like a week until people like lost their ship. Then when they came back down to n SRP. Hey, man, it's not like in the past. I mean you couldn't play a game unless you had an open gail one. Yeah, that's true. Better, that's true. All right. I think this is the last email. May get a good one. My throat hurts. Matt from Tennessee, uh rights in about the Mount Rushmore of games. Please don't take this as me endorsing the podcast. I have never listened to it, but I liked the email a lot. So here we go. We do a segment on our podcast, The Hot Coffee Podcast, every other week about the Mount Rushmore of something. We use it to put a face on the iconic four of whatever category we choose. Here are some examples of our previous Rushmore's comedic maile actors Bill Murray, Will Farrell, Eddie Murphy, Mike Myers. What do you yeah? Mike Meyers more accomplished than a lot of people give him credit for. When you just like look back at the range of characters that, yeah, he's responsible for. Yeah, that's definitely top of mind. Is huge. Yeah villains, Darth Vader, the Joker, Dracula, and Voldemort. I think Voldemort is definitely the odd the fiction of the odd villain out there movie villains. Yeah, I don't know it, you know, I drag It was pretty fucking iconic as movie villains go. Yeahs as the passing of Christopher Lee shows us. Yeah, dude, dudes, there's a lot of what's sucking going on. Our Rushmore for this week is sitcoms. Uh, do you guys know your Rushmore for sitcoms? Do you think there is a mount rushmore for video games? I feel like the iconic nature of it would almost certainly make it games from the eighties that everyone is familiar with. What would your Rushmore look like? I'm kind of more interested in delineating a sitcom rushmore here, Seinfeld think, wait, are we putting good sitcoms on this list or garbage? I'm not even a huge side Vilvan seen maybe half of the episodes, but like, in terms of importance, it's like, what, Like I love Lucy Seinfeld, Friends and You Gotta Stick are Friends? First Company? The family Friends basically fills up all four faces. Already we're talking about shows, right, Each show is one head, so you could have one episode, so like Joey, just amalgamate them all into one head of Monica. Do you count or a development or do we have to just like laugh tracks, Studio Audience Cosby show mashesn't doesn't count as a sitcom, does it? I mean I've heard people referred to it as a sitcom. The situation, it is a situation, and it is a comedy career. Yeah, I don't. I don't know, Sister Belvedere, Like, sitcoms are fucking terrible. Yeah, you're right, they're pretty much all bad. We're into the video game one, okay, well yeah you got Mario, Yeah, the first Mario. That's what are we talking? Games or faces? Oh a Tetris. I suppose it's up to us to define the rules, like Mario the straight piece from Tetris, pac Man Clyde, just Clyde would be link. I don't know the kid. I think you're like, you've got the Nintendo representative with Mario. I want the Amigo one. It's just putty, sensible soccer dude, like one of the fucking the Egyptian Face from the ball with the Egyptian Face Books Way three, the bouncing fucking checkerboard ball, zol and James Pond and a John and a chupa choop. Hmmm, Mario is a lock, right, No one's debating that, And I think pac Man's gotta be a lot Mario Mario Sunshine though, honestly, yeah, just flood, Yeah, just a giant stone flood master Chief, don't. I don't know, Mario pac Man, I think are locked. I think in terms of impact and ongoing, like master Chief is not what it used to be, but like certainly an iconic of an era, sort of like exposure in two games in terms of what I mean, you know, depending on when you make this list, it's like Mario Lara Croft a Tetris piece and master Chief or something like. No, but this Mount Rushmore is eternal. It's not about one era or anything. As presidents for they're all a history. Most presidents are super old now, like all of them are old. So mmmm, yeah, I don't know a serious tim from Braid the Boat from Jaws for the nes Nabby Nabby Boy triangle thing from Jomp True Wars yeah, Matt Hazard, Yes, Matt Hazzard, the host of the Guy game. It's like the anti Rushmore Dark Sector Guy. Yes, just the glave, just the glave. Yeah, okay, was that Xbox Live Car game? Bammar Jarra and then the other three are just rotating cast members from cocteau Chojren. I would put the rocket launcher from Quake on my Rushmore rocket launcher from Quake Garfield, Dana Plato from Nitre okay, all right? And John Romeo's head yes, yes, yes, just that sprite, that actual photograph. All right, I think we've got our four, then, and send your fan arts to BombCast at john bomb dot com. You gotta have five new shirts in there. Your artists interpretations of these red ringing Xbox three sixteen six hundred PS three, A Giant Enemy Crab, and the Phantom lapboard Trip Hawkins, yes four times. Specifically that photo of Trip Hawkins holding the world in his hand. Yes for Trip Hawkins is Crash Crash Bandicoot's girlfriend. Yeah, oh man, fu Con video games are dumb. We're pretty dumb too, Mom, got job on dot com. Li'sten into this podcast. Okay, Uh, some stuff will happen this week. I'm sure. Yeah, Batman will be up by the time you see this. Uh, I'll get that payday to save and maybe we'll look at that, even though I mean that game has been out on the PC since like plus fifteen years. Want what weird? That game pops up and says thanks for buying the DLC, and I'm like, no, that's all included in here, but like all the messages and stuff is still in there. It's a it's a really weird fucking game structurally. I don't know something that'll happen. Yeah, well look at some other stuff for sure. Yeah, all right, let stay tuned to what will be, no doubt be a highly energetic, action packed week. Hot bangers abound Giant Bomb, Doctorm, Giant Bomb. Uh. And we'll be back this night at this time. Next week, I can't even talk anymore. We will be back next week, same time, same place, with another addition with the Giant BombCast. See you then,