Super Marios Bros. (1993) with Abby Russell

00:00:00
Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast. The questions asked if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef and best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hey, Jamie, I've got a really good intro. Ready, Okay, let's do it. It's some Beckdel cast. Hello, Oh my god, it's pretty good listeners. I just want you to know that. Caitlin, right before saying that, said I've got a really good intro. No, and I'm gonna leave that in the episode. All Right, all right, I thought you were gonna I thought you were gonna do something like really heady and be like, do you believe in podcast? Because that's for some reason, the journey of this movie, Mario has to believe in dinosaurs question Mark, which is also his journey in the game. So it makes total sense. Yeah, this, he would be on a dinosaur based journey, right, the reliance on the source material. Yeah, it's it's there. It's palpable. We can feel it. You can feel I can feel it in my little freaky dinosaur bones. Well, I thought that was a great intro, even though I insulted it immediately. I was just being insecure. I wish I thought of it myself. You know, that's why this is a collaborative effort. It's true and welcome to the Bectel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus Mario. Oh wow, my name is Caitlin Mario Durante, which actually almost works because my middle name is Marie. You shouldn't letter off of Mario. You should get that changed. You should. You should figure that out. It's not going to be a big deal, but like I think it would really turn some things around. Thank you. I agree. I'll work on it. I'm going to change my middle name to Bethana or something. I'll change to the last let's just slap an out on the end of both of our middle names. Well, here's the thing, Loftus Luigi. It doesn't sound that similar, but Jamie Loftus Mario. Yeah, it could have just been Jamie Luigi. It was right there. You know. I'm keeping Jamie Loftus Mario. Unfortunately, it's already legally reflected on my first certificate. I should have asked people. Nah, it's it's your choice anyway. Yeah, I'm Kaitlin Mario Durante. My voice remains sounding like this. I like this. Yeah, it's the new you baby. And this week we're covering a movie that is no longer available publicly. I would guess I don't know how long it's been unavailable publicly, but I would guess partially because and this is why we're releasing this now, because of the New Mario movie. I think this movie has such a bad reputation that maybe the like studio didn't even want it out for like comparison. Oh huge, miss Steak. There's no wait, Chris Pratt, Mario is going to be able to do the things that are done in this movie. I bet there's not even going to be a horny fungus. Where's the like fungus penis coming out of foreskin? It's probably not going to be in this new movie. And that's a huge disappointment. It's a disaster. I really, I mean whatever, I guess I'm rooting for this movie to be good. I don't really know why. I feel, like Chris Pratt mart Well, I don't know. We've got to We've got to get our our expert in here because I need I need some thoughts, I need some experience, I need some I need to understand what's happening here. But yes, we're covering Super Mario Brothers nineteen ninety three today and we have an incredible guest. But first we have to tell you what the Bechtel test is so that we can explain to you how this movie does pass it. Right, So the Bechtel test is what we use as a jumping off point on our podcasts, which we also didn't explain what this is. Here's what we do. We examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate a much more thoughtful conversation, okay, about representation and such. And the Bechtel test our version requires that two characters of a marginalized gender who ideally have names, they must speak to each other about something other than a man, and ideally, for us, it's a narratively relevant conversation. And I was so pleasantly surprised by so many things that happened in this movie, but that was one of them. And without further ado, we have an incredible guest today. Let's get her in the She's a comedian and gamer and a front of ours. It's Abby Russell. Hello, that's me. I love Wow. That feels good. Have you ever said that before? I love games? Yeah, no, I try to keep it deep down, but it just feels like a safe space where I can be authentically myself as a gamer and virgin exactly. I mean, look, we accept all kinds here, thank you. So okay, we have been wanting to cover this movie with you for a while, only to realize a few days before recording that it is not available anywhere. However, if listeners are interested, I don't think John Leguizamo's getting residuals from this movie anymore. So I would say, don't feel bad about watching it illegally online, which is what we all did. Yes, it's worth it. It's worth your time because this movie rocks. Yeah, spoiler alert. We all really liked this movie. I loved it. I was kind of shocked. I didn't think I would like it as much as I did. I Yeah, well it was so like I feel like I knew about this movie's reputation a lot, and then I was like ready for something that was way less like comprehend principle or like fun to want. Then I don't know, like yeah. He ending is a little confusing, but it's like, who, I don't know, Abby, what's your history with this movie? And I guess the Mario franchise in general? Wow, okay, I guess with this movie. I've never seen it, heard a lot about it. I heard it was one of those like, oh, it's so bad kind of movies. And I found it to be genuinely fun and a lot of really inspired choices. And I guess my history with Mario. I've been working in the gaming industry for far too long now, so I've played quite a number of Mario games. I'm familiar with Mario Mario Mario, excuse me, canonically he is Mario Mario. Do you have a favorite Mario game? Oh, gosh, there's so many. I mean, I love the Mario Party games. I know that there's the first choice. I love Mario Party. Think Mario Party is so fun. There are a billion of them. I think it's just a good time to be had all around. Also, Mario Kart. Hard to go wrong with Mario Kart, perfect game, no notes. Agreed, Jamie, What is your relationship with this movie slash Mario in general? Oh, I'm not a gamer girl and I'm trying to fix that about myself, but I'm not that's a huge flaw of yours. I'm really trying to change as a person fundamentally. I just didn't. I Like we've talked about because we've covered a handful of video game movies on this show before, not too many. We've covered Lara Croft. Is there anything else Mortal Kombat movies? Never did a Mortal Kombat Okay, there's always time. Maybe this is the second one we've covered. I just didn't. I don't know. I wasn't allowed to play video games growing up, and so by the time I got them, Yeah, we had a hand me down console from my cousin that we had to use like in secret. And then when I got older, my brother was allowed to play video games, and by that point I didn't care. But so I played very, very few video games. I watched my cousins play video game. I watched my cousins play Mario Kart a lot. I love Spiro the Dragon, and that's kind of it. But during Lockdown, I played Top to Botta. Like I've played a lot of Mario Party, I've watched a lot of Mario Kart, and I played Luigi's mansion top to Botta during Lockdown, and I loved Luigi's fucking mansion. I don't really know what makes a good game or a bad game other than is it fun for me? And did I finish it? And so that five mansions for Luigi's mansion. And I just love Luigi as a guy too. He's just a long piece of pasta. I love that guy. And I love John Leguizamo's horny, naive luigish what a sweetie pie. Yeah, I think I'm just like first and Foremosa a Luigi hit. And I would always like if I did play Mario Kart with my um oh, that's another question I have for both of you. When I would play Mario Kart with my cousins, I would always be Luigi because they're like, you're tall, and your your favorite colors green. I was like, damn, they're right. Honestly, I will say, Jamie, you do feel like a Luigi, and Caitlin you feel like a Mario. I feel like that makes sense for the podd Wait, that's so, what are your go to characters? If you're in Mario Kart? Who? Who you? Who? Are you jumping for it? I love Yoshi, who I guess is canonically a dinosaur. We can confirm it. There are a lot of questions about it. But when now we know he's a dinosaur. Yes, I also love shy guy who I don't think it was in this movie. Unfortunately, there's a guy and there is room for him. Right. It depends on the Mario Kart in question, because I was a big Mario Kart sixty four head as a youth, and I would almost always actually I did not discriminate. I was every character in equal parts played the field. I was playing the field. It was kind of a slut actually when it came to a proud slut when it came to who I who I was driving around as in Mario Kart sixty four. Mario Kart OUI is the next one. Oh I maybe I don't know enough about like which Nintendo games showed up with which consoles I now have a switch. I don't know if there's like a specifically a switch Mario Kart game or if it's just sort of like a carryover from Abby do you know? So there is Mario Kartate Deluxe, which is originally on the WIIU, but because a lot of people didn't buy the Wiu. They poured it it to the switch. So Mari Kardate Deluxe is on the switch and they've released like DLC just for the switch since then. It's a bunch of deal it's come out. I play a lot of Mario Kartate Deluxe, to be honest, so I think that is like v vest Mario Kart. They haven't made a new Mario Kart in years, but Mari Kredit is still very good. So I accepted. It's okay, God, well allow it. This was all to say that I have no go to characters. I just play as everyone all the time. Yeah, I think that. And also well again not to just keep piling on the Luigi praise, but with Luigi. Maybe this is just a list of questions I have for Abby in relation to Luigi. Who is Walluigi? Okay? Interesting question? Okay, So like Mario and Luigi are brothers, right, and then Wario and Walluuigi are like the anti Mario and Luigi. Okay, but I like to think that Warrio and Walluwigi are lovers and not brothers. But I don't think that's canonical. I think that's just a me thing, But I think they have lover energy and I like their dynamic personally. I don't know if that answered your question, but I just wanted to talk about my fan fiction. I guess I think it does. I think that that Yin and Yang, you know that that makes sense to me that that scans. I feel like Warrio and Walluigi aren't like true villains. They're sort of like fun anti hero I think they're goofy. People love Walluigi or a couple of rascals. I like their mustaches. They're spiky because they're evil. Yeah. Yeah, I'm like real Luigi's mustache. That's smoothe butter baby. Have you have one more question before we start talking about the movie? Oh? Great? And then oh wait, Kito, wait, Caitlyn, what is your history with the Mario franchise? Oh my gosh, I thought you'd never ask a right first thing with questions this morning. I had seen this movie once before, but it's been like probably twenty years since I've seen it. I knew at the time that it had like a cult following and that it was like widely regarded as one of the worst movies ever made. I watched it, but I think I wasn't paying very close attention to it back then because I was just like, man, whatever, like it was a weird, not very good movie. And then when I watched it again for this episode, I was like, wait a minute, We've been sleeping on this movie for decades. This movie rocks, and like, no, it's not good quote unquote, but it's awesome. It's so much not unoring, which is it's not. It looks amazing. The production designed is incredible. The performance it's funny. There are jokes and they land. The casting is incredible, the performances are incredible. It's just like camp trash and I love it. Yeah, even like from our perspective, the movie did much better than I thought it was going right to do. They made Daisy a paleontologist. It's also so wild that this movie comes out a few months I think before Jurassic Park. It's like, wow, really, oh well, Steven Spielberg must have been so happy that people hated this movie. It's so silly to hate this movie. What's it doing wrong? I loved it. This movie to me felt like if you asked an eight year old boy in the eighties, like, okay, you want to make a Mario movie. What's it gonna be? And then the child wrote the script. That's what it felt like to me, but in like the best way. Yeah, it reminded me a lot of like the live action teenage Mutant inter Turtle movies. It reminded me a lot of like Power Rangers. I mean, it reminded me of like Casper too, Like it just like it's like all of these I don't know. I think it's funny that like this movie seems to be singled out as uniquely bad when it's like doing I think so many things that like attempting to adapt olds or properties or like just properties that hadn't been adapted to like Hollywood movies. It's like you wouldn't. Casper was like such a goofy, like nothing poofy cartoon that they turned into like a gritty, kind of like overly horny live action movie with really fun practical effects. And that's exactly what this is doing. And it's like, yeah, I don't know why it caught so much shit. I truly don't know. Yeah, the third act kind of falls apart in the climax is barely a climax, But other than that, it's a perfect film. It's just Snow Tunnel and it's Ladies from Brooklyn and she doesn't even lose her s sigarette, and you're just like, wow, I have no complaints. It's great. See I love the movie. And then as far as like Mario properties in general, I grew up playing. I didn't have a Super Nintendo, but I had like a regular ass Nintendo. So whatever Mario game was on that I played quite a bit as a kid. And then my sister and I got a Nintendo sixty four when I was maybe like twelve or something like that, and I played Super Mario sixty four. I played Mario Kart sixty four. Then I got my switch. At the beginning of the pandemic, I've been playing Mario Party. I started replaying Mario sixty four, but then I was like, I have to move on to other things such as Zelda and Pokemon. There comes a time in every person's life exactly. And I will say controversially that Smash Brothers I don't like it. I don't like it either. Thank you, I don't thank you so much. I also don't like crossover stuff. I think it is unnatural and unright. I don't think Mario should be anywhere near Link or any of the other little freaks they put in that game, the animal crossing people with bowser, I don't think so, oh that's the one where they all play together. I don't like people are like, do you want to play smash, and I'm like, no, I want to have fun? Yeah, exactly. Wow. Anyway, so that's just my tirade about Mario stuff. I mean, I have one more question for you before we get into this discussion, which is, do you have any opinions on video game movie adaptations in general? Are there any video game movies that you are like, this is a good one because they feel like they generally and maybe I'm wrong here, but they think they generally kind of get a bad rap. I think, yeah, I would agree. I think most do get a bad rap, and most are not very good. I think the live action ones of like the eighties and nineties are typically thought of as like pretty terrible but fun, and then I think like live action ones today are sort of like they're so wrote, they're boring, like the Uncharted movies. And then I think things like the Sonic movies, and I expect the New Mario movie that will come out is like a perfectly passable movie for children. Like I think people go in be like, it's going to be so stupid. I'm like, this is just for families, it's not really for you. And I think that's ultimately okay. Yeah, yeah, I think in general a lot of adult viewers should maybe keep in mind that not all movies are made for them. Yes, but this seems to be a very difficult thing for large groups of people to accept. But then it's like the Last of Us just came out and I feel like that, I mean, that's been extremely well received. But that's also mini series for The Last Us is also based off of a game that is incredibly cinematic and narrative. Like, so, I think it adapts really well to television, especially now on the age of like Prestige TV, whereas like Mario does not have a coherent narrative. So you're really gonna have to make some big choices to make a narrative happened, I guess, And they do, they really do. Also, I was like, as I was watching this movie, I was like, Wow, a world covered in fungus? What is this the Last of Us? There's parallels. Yeah, Mario walked the Last of Us could run exactly. Yes, yes, I haven't watched The Last of Us because because you hate having a great time and looking at Pedro Pascal, it does not okay to be fair the Last of Us. I don't look at that poster and say that looks like a great time it. Maybe it looks like a good show, but it doesn't like it. I'm gonna have a great time. It's from the I can't talk about the guy who made the Last of Us. I have a positive opinion of him, but it's his career so wild. He wrote Two Hangovers and then Chernobyl and then Last of Us. You're just wow, he's as good for him I know. I was like, God, I was talking to my boyfriend about it about it the other day and I was like, men can do anything. They're They're allowed to try so many things. It's not fair. I wanted to share speaking of Actually, this is a male director I really really like, and I think most people do. This isn't a hot take, but there's a quote I found from Edgar Wright about how he thinks that video game movies don't work in general, and then like said kind of concisely why because he's a gamer girl, Edgar Wright. He said, quote, there's never been a good video game film. The reason for that is staring you in the face. A video game is a unique experience to you. You are playing the game, just like watching somebody else play a video game is not fun. I disagree, it's not fun watching a video game adaptation if you're not playing it. There is no game that I would like to adapt. Maybe Rampage, but somebody's probably already doing that. I believe someone could do that. Did that happen? Yeah, it wasn't the raw. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, Oh my god. I agree with parts of that. But I think, like you said, people love watching people play video games, like Twitch is huge. I also think there are some good video game adaptions, and I think there are so many video games like The Last of Us where you do it does add something to play the game, but also because it's so narrative and kind of trying to be a movie anyway, it like adapts really easily. Yeah, whereas someone like Mario, Yeah, is a different challenge again, Yeah, damn well, she'll be Should we get into Super Mario Brothers nineteen ninety three, let's two jaguazzone was so handsome, all right, and yes, let's do it right after this break. Yes, okay, so here's the recap. So for anyone who has not seen this movie, fix that right now. Yeah, go find go watch this movie. That's impossible to find, literally, Caitlin message me and I Unfortunately, I'm a deviant and I know how to find a movie. If I can't find it, and as like, just google the name of the movie and then one to three movies. You'll find it. Your computer will explode, but you'll find it. So it was, and sure enough it is there. Yeah, thank you for the link. So just for anyone who hasn't seen this movie, if you're picturing like an animated or you know, like something esthetically similar to the Mario games you're familiar with, that is not at all what this is. This movie is a live action reimagining of Mario where Mario and his brother Luigi are plumbers in modern day Brooklyn or like nineties, nineteen ninety three when it came out. Okay, so that's what we're getting into. But first we open on animation of dinosaurs sixty five million years ago, which also I don't know if anyone has seen sixty five starring Adam Driver. No, I did not like it was Is there an Adam Driver dinosaur movie that's literally in theater? Well, at the time of this recording, it's in theaters. What's going on? I did see it, and it's another live action movie about humans interacting with t rexes and other dinosaurs. Did they show a big dinosaur egg that then a baby girl comes out of? That? Almost happens in sixty five. The opening sequence with the woman running to the church reminded me of the Hunchback of Notre Dame, except it goes way better for her. I don't know, the church is nice to her. So it's sixty five million years ago. Then a meteorite hits and voiceover says, yeah, this meteorite hit the earth. But what if not all dinosaurs were destroyed? What if the impact of this meteorite created an alternate dimension where dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent species. You're like, what movie? Then we cut too? I think the nineteen seventies where a woman is running frantically around Brooklyn. She leaves something on the stoop of a church, then goes into the sewer where she runs into Coopa played by Dennis Hopper, and he's mean and she's scared of him, and then maybe like the tunnel collapses on him. We're not really sure. We cut to the church. What has been left on this stoop was a large egg which hatches and inside is what appears to be a human baby. Yes, so it's a bunch of nuns who are like touching the egg and you're like, oh my god, what is it? And then like a human baby comes out and they're like, whoa a miracle? Better raise it, like I'm saying, I mean, it just turns out way. And then later this is the being raised in a church thing is only brought up one other time, and she's like, yeah, it was great. I was like, wow, huge divergence from Hunchback of Notre Dame. He had a brutal time in that damn church. The what was it? Oh? At first, at first I assumed that the baby coming out of the egg was Mario. So it made me laugh when it was like twenty years later, I'm like, are they gonna try to tell me Bob Hoskins is twenty years old? But it would have been fun though along with the egg, this woman also left behind a bluish crystal, which will become important later. We then cut to present day aka nineteen ninety three. We meet Mario played by Bob Hoskins and his younger brother Luigi played by John leg was almost incredible, perfect cast, perfect casting. It's so good you wouldn't think that. I mean, I guess it's just like two people with just like off the charts levels of charisma, where were like, I guess they would work together, how could they not? And they do and they do. They are plumbers who get called in for a job, but their competitor, the mean mister Scapelli, gets their first. Mister Scappelli is also trying to shut down a paleontological dig where NYU students are digging up dinosaur bones, which is a project led by Daisy played by Samantha Mathis. This is also like eighties and nineties kind of villains where I mean, and I kind of miss this in like big cartoonish real estate developer villains who get humiliated by the end of the movie. Like this happens in almost all of these kinds of adaptations, and I always like it. Yeah, it's always some scrappy kids that are like, don't build them all here, and then they don't. That's why. Then they don't and works and we love it, just like in real life exactly. Then we meet these two goons, Spike and Iggy, who work for Cooper, and it seems like they are fish out of water. They're eating hot dogs the wrong way, which Jamie's cheering, always cheering. They think that they're eating actual dog meat. They throw away the buns. It's hilarious. I mean, depending on where you source it, you could be eating actual dog meat. Sometimes the rumors are true, and I appreciated that deconstruction of the form. Oh sorry, sorry, guys. Fleet just pooped and so he's walking around and screaming that's what I do too. He's sometimes when he really lays an egg, it has to he's like, call the nuns. Scream it out, called the nuns. We get a live one. Okay, all right, sorry, no worries. So Mike and Iggy are maybe from another dimension in but they are trying to kidnap Daisy. Yeah, Daisy. Meanwhile, cross his path with Luigi and he's like, hubb a hubba whooah, who is that? But Luigi is really bad at flirting, so Mario steps in and helps Mario smooth as hell, Mario. Women are dropping at this guy's feet. Yeah, I love and he's a good boyfriend. I was like, wow, he treats women right. I was into it. He does both of them. They're so sweet to the women in their lives, and it's like, wow, it's really nice. We never see this. I was like jealous. I was jealous of Daniella. Yeah, he's so affectionate, he's so nice and that. So they offer Daisy a ride and then Luigi asks her to dinner that night. Cut to dinner. It's a double date between Luigi and Daisy and Mario and his girlfriend Daniella. This is where we discover that Daisy is the baby who hatched from the egg at the beginning, because she has that blue crystal which she wears around her neck as a necklace, and we're like, wow, blue crystal necklace, Heart of the Ocean much. Also, there's a moment where Luigi's like I'm flying Mario and you're like, whoa James Cameron ripped it off. Okay, So then Luigi is like, wow, Daisy, your job digging up dinosaur Bones is so cool, and she's like, I'll show you, so she takes him down to the sewer. Meanwhile, Spike and Iggy kidnap Mario's girlfriend Daniella because they mistake her for Daisy, but they realize they've gotten the wrong person, so then they follow Daisy and Luigi into the sewer. Meanwhile, Daisy and Luigi are about to smooch, but then some pipes burst And this is maybe my favorite joke of the movie, where Luigi, who is a plumber, she's like, oh my gosh, thank goodness you're here. You're a plumber, and he's like, that's right, I know exactly what to do. Cut to them going to Mario because because Luigi doesn't know what he's doing. Yeah, it's like, I also like that it's sort of cannon that Luigi doesn't know what he's doing. He's just an apprentice. True God. Also not to like keep Thursday after John l. Zamba. But I was like, wow, he's probably like twenty two. Here he's thirty three. Really, oh my god. I was like he looks so young. Good for him. Look, I mean I have no explanation, I just have the truth. I will say I did appreciate how many times that they got out of situations via plumbing, either like messing with the plumbing or repairing the plumbing. I thought that was a really fun way to be like, look, they're plumbers. This is what they know how to do. They are going to plumb. Yeah, they're not Mary Sue plumbers, so they use skills they already have all the time. There's even like it got more. I was like, wow, this is getting kind of granular, Like Mario is talking Luigi through some HVAC shit at one point, and you're just like, this is like pretty intense, working class heroes, blue color heroes. And then they mentioned their union. Yeah, plumbers famously have like some of the strongest unions in like the world. So it's also like, man, I believe that these guys working class heroes. Luigi has like a rainbow tool belt. He's an ally ally god. I love these guys. They rock. I also wondered the way that they set up, like it seems like the way that Mario and Luigi get plumbing work is by like walking around. I was like, don't they call you? Why are you walking around looking for plumbing problems? But I don't know. I've never worked, I've never apprenticed, so I can't say for sure. Sure, um okay, So now they all go back down to the sewer to fix these pipes. But oh no, the goons kidnapped Daisy and bring her through this port hole, but her crystal necklace gets left behind. Luigi and Mario grab it, and then they jump through the port hole as well, which is just like a rock face. They go into the sewers and then it's like kind of an underground like kve canyon thing and they jump into like a wiggly rock essentially precisely, This like helped me understand a little better when like the two directors who did this also invented that character Max Headroom, who looks similarly bizarre. It was like an eighties I associated with MTV, but it was like this eighties TV host that was just a computer generated head and I think he wore sunglasses, And it was supposed to be like this cool futuristic like gen X kids love this, and they did. You're like, all right, but it like the graphics are super similar, and that was well, I'm excited to talk about the production of this movie because it's there's so much cue. Oh my god. One of the directors poured hot coffee, had an extra You're like, what the fuck is man John Leguizamo, Like injured Bob. They was driving the Mario like their plumbing car drunk because they were drunk all the time. Yeah, I already hurt Bob Hoskins and he had to wear a cast for most of the movie. He's wearing a flush, flush colored cast. Anyways, the backstories wild good trivia. They did flip a lot of cars. I was kind I'm amazed at how many big action sequences there were. I loved it. They spared no expense. It felt like almost Tim Burton Batmanny the way the action was at some point, whereas like big action sequences with like a pause for jokes. Yes, this is not really the tone of the script, but more the aesthetics of like especially on the villain's dressed. Have you y'all seen the movie Dead Ringers. No, No, it's a freaky, weird movie that is very totally different. But it's about these two twin gynecologists based off of like I think, real life, and then they like I think maybe start like mutilating and murdering people and then also like each other, and then they have these weird, freaky tools. But anyway, I felt like real similar aesthetics, like they were in the same world kind of vibe. Okay, God, that's wild, all right. So Luigi and Mario jump through to this alternate dimension which is similar to New York City, but it's really kooky and some people look like reptiles and everything is covered in ungus, and Mario and Luigi are like, what the fuck? But they have to keep chasing the goons who captured Daisy. Meanwhile, Coopa and his sidekick slash girlfriend or I don't really know what their relationship is exactly, It was unclear, but she definitely like it's that will get back to her. But yeah, it's like she definitely is primarily motivated by ambition, but it also does seem like she's kind of in love with Dennis Hopper. Yes, it does seem because she So this is Lena played by Fiona Shaw, who some listeners might recognize as Aunt Petunia from Harry Potter movies. Is that her most famous role? That was what I recognized her? I guess I know her from like Killing Eve. Oh. Yes, she's great in killing Eve. Yeah, she's so good. She's great, and this is this is like peak good villain costuming for her. Yes, such good outfits. So Coopa and Lena reveal their plan. So Coopa needs the missing piece of the meteorite that had split the two dimensions because they're in the dimension where the people evolved from reptiles. So Coopa hates mammals because he's like a dinosaur man, and he also resents that mammals get to live above ground with clean water and fresh air, and that he and his reptile people are stuck in this like seward dimension. So this piece of the meteorite will help them merge the worlds because he's gonna like stick it in the big meteorite and it's gonna bring these two worlds together, and he wants to who over everyone. And if you're if you don't understand, that's fine, hell, like it doesn't really I can't really get it out. It's like something about merging the word. And then it gets really really heavy where it's like we want to do it, and then there's like kind of there's like some attempted commentary on like fascistic societies because Kopa is like this fascist leader and then he's trying to like brainwash people into being gumbas that don't question him. And then he can also make people smarter. But if you make them smarter, they've become socialist revolutionaries. There's like a lot of like stuff going on. Correct, and I liked it all. But it's like this, I don't know if Mario is like able to handle this level of commentary, but I like that they tried, right. They're like this dinosaur realm is a police state and Mario Luigi have to come in and dismantle it. Their rest toad for singing like a Bob Dylan song about popa. You're like, whoa this is? This is intense, it's wild. Yeah yeah, okay, So as Mario and Luigi are trying to navigate through the chaos with being in this alternate dimension. A woman with a red and very spiky outfit, yes, the judge from Legally Blonde. Yes, great character actor a moment, Wait what is her? She was my favorite part of the movie. I loved everything about her. Incredible, incredible Francescape Roberts, yes, whose name we will learn is birth a little later on. But she steals the necklace from Mario and Luigi. Well, really, an old lady steals it, and then she comes along and throws it. The old lady over a bridge and steals it first. Yes, what a two punch. Women can do anything. It's really We're still recording this during women's history months, and in that moment I was like, wow, I felt it. Yeah, girl power because the older lady, I think, takes advantage of what the Mario's assume of her, which is that she's weak and defenseless. And then she mugs them and then Bertha throws her off, but he continues to fight, and then Shop steals a car or something. Yeah, that sequence was so fun. I loved it. It's great. Okay, So then Mario and Luigi meet Toad, who is, like you said, Jamie, like a musician who's singing songs. Very weird adaptation of that character. Yes, like swirly hair. They didn't. They made some choices on that one. Yeah, they shrink anything about the care am I Like, I mean, I'm not super well versed, but like, is there anything about the character Toad that's like particularly musical or counterculture? It's like, why did they make Toad is just like a little dude who's like, here's the tutorial for the game. Right in the later games, he like goes around exploring. He's like a Captain Toad. But yeah, I was like, that's the little guy that tells me what lap I'm on. Exactly his job, queer icon Toad. He's just doing his job, you know. But I mean I thought again, just like another fun, weird swing that this movie makes you like, Yeah, I guess that he's an acoustic guitarist. Sure. Yes. So they all get arrested and thrown in jail for like no reason really, and Cooba shows up and he's like, Mario and Luigi, give me that meteorite piece, and they're like, we don't have it. So Coopa gets mad and d evolves Toad because he has this machine where you can either evolve or d evolve people, and so he d evolves Towed into a reptile with a tiny head and makes him join the Goomba army because in this version of Mario, gumbas are not the little mushroom guys. No, gumbas are fascist soldiers with tiny heads, very small, huge bodies, tiny little heads. It's clearly an adult man sticking his head up and controlling a puppet. Yes, which we love to see. I wish we saw more of it, but it's yeah. And then also the I mean again, like they attempted, like they're like, but the goombas can't be deep programmed by showings of human kindness or something because they bring daisy vegetables. Well, that's that's toad goombah. Oh that's just how the fuck am I. They gave him a harmonica immediately, that's how you tpreciate it. Yeah, because he's got the harmonica. Clearly, I'm not operating on the intellectual level this movie is. I was like, wow, that's so nice. There was a lot of layers going on with the plot. I was just like, I'm here to vibe. I'm not here to follow what's happening at any point. Yeah, I think that that's the intention, and if it isn't, that's the way to best enjoy this movie. Well, I was analyzing it through a like narrative storytelling screenwriting point of view, and I was like, honestly, things track I'm following. It's working for me. It basically works, and that's honest. Even more than most movies do, and it's not boring, And that's definitely. That's the thing. Is like, even if the new Mario movie is good, I bet it will be boring. Oh yeah, I think it's going to be perfectly milk toast and a perfectly passable movie to watch with your nephew. Yeah, which, fine, sure, whatever, No minions, no minions, honey, I tell you what. Nothing. They're taking risks over a minion, damn right, they're making swings. Yeah, okay. So Mario and Luigi are like still being detained. They fight back and escape in a stolen cop car and they drive through a tunnel and end up in the desert. Also, this thing keeps happening where it seems like the fungus that's covering everything is like helping them and giving them little trinkets that they are gonna use later, like little bombs. Yeah. Meanwhile, Coopa decides to evolve Spike and Iggy to make them smarter so that they'll be better at helping him. And then Lena goes to Daisy and she's like, here's the thing about your mother and father. Your father was the king. Your mother is that lady who saw at the beginning who left the egg at the church because she's trying to keep her later egg in front of a bunch of nuns, and so we realize, oh, Daisy, is this like princess from this alternate realm? And Lena also tells Daisy that the reason Coopa wants her is that he thinks Daisy is the only one who can merge the dimensions, like her body can withstand the force that it will take yourself, very like royalist, but you're like heat's Mario. I just gotta I just gotta roll with it. I don't have time to think about royalist bloodline bullshit. I can't do it. But you know. This is also when Daisy meets a little dinosaur named Yoshi, who is nice and who is also treated as Koopa's prisoner, so Yoshi and Daisy become friends. Back in the desert, Mario and Luigi run into the goons Spike and Iggy, who are trying to get the meteorite piece still, then they all head back into the city to take the meteorite piece from the woman who stole it, Bertha, who works as a bouncer at a nightclub. So Mario Luigi go to the club Mario gets the necklace from Bertha by flirting and dancing with her. They have a very sensual dance moment. It's honestly, very well done. I was into it. Yeah, I loved it. Oh, I really loved it. Yeah, like it was they played it straight in a way that I was like, it's so cool that they hired like mostly classically trained actors for this because they're not out of context. You're like, this could be in so many different movies. Yes, and I loved that Mario. Mario was like, the way I'm gonna win over this woman's heart is by being like, I am horny when you punch me, Please keep doing that. And she's like, okay, big boy, let's do it. And it works like a charm. But also I'm like, I think he's kind of serious, right, Yes, yes, so there's like a kink element to this movie too. It's awesome, thrilling. Yes. Yeah, So he steals the necklace back. She realizes what has happened, but she's like, shrug, they're my friends now, So she helps them escape and also steals a little kiss. Oh yeah, they kiss, but they have to escape when Lena shows up with some goomba's and immediately steals the media right necklace from Mario and Luigi, so now Lena has it. Mario and Luigi show up at Kopa's house slash head quarters slash layer whatever, suddenly dressed in far more Mario and Luigi outfits that we hadn't seen them in before. Yeah, they're wearing like really generally nineties clothes up to this point. Yeah, there's a scene in an elevator where they get the goombas to dance. They really just like disarm a lot of the villains by dancing with them, I realized, which is beautiful. Meanwhile, Lena approaches Daisy and she's about to stab Daisy, but Yoh saves her, Daisy escapes. Lena stabs Yoshi, but he doesn't die. For some reason, I thought for sure he and Lena died in that scene, but it turns out they're both fine. And Yo, she's just wearing a little collar, yeah, which then she just took off. It was like you've been wearing the collar like you could have just taken it off earlier. I was surprised that she was suddenly able to take it off. Nothing really changed, that's true, No, that was a little confusing to me, but I was just like, honestly, I just I was. I was bummed out when I thought Lena had died, and I was like, oh, I guess, I guess she made it great. No, she just dies later, Yeah, in a really cartoony way. She's just skeletonified. Yep. Okay, So Daisy with the help of Goompa Toad and Iggy and Spike, who have turned on Kopa and are now and are loyal to Daisy and her father, the King, which is weird because it's like, but they they're talking like their socialist revolutionaries, and it was really funny where they're like they put you through the smart machine. But then it's like but then they also are like, we love the King, and I'm like, put them through the smart machine one more time. Right, They're going to see the means of productions down there in Dino York exactly. So Iggy and Spike showed Daisy her father, who is this giant blob of sentient fungus wall and She's like, hi, Dad, He's just a throbbing pile of sealing fungus. And I loved it. I loved it. It's so the color is like nauseating. It's like dripping goo everywhere, kind of is fleshy looking. I was just thinking, like if I were a child, I think I would be scared by the fungus. It wasn't even like fun and cartoony. It was realistic and disgusting. Yes, yeah, like it was like a throbbing flesh colored like yeah, fungus. It was both wet and dry somehow. Wow, beetles, juice, come, scabs, vibes. We don't have time, I can't, Okay, So Mario and Luigi reunite with Daisy. She introduces them to her fungus dad, and then Mario goes to rescue his girlfriend, Daniella and the other Brooklyn women who the goons had previously kidnapped, thinking they were also Daisy. Amazing. They escape via sliding down this huge icy pipe, and then Mario, Luigi, Daisy, and Daniella they're like ready to go back to Brooklyn, but oh no. Coopa finally gets his hand on the meteorite piece and he's ready to like reunite the piece with the rest of the meteorite. But then there's this climactic scuffle where Mario is trying to stop Coopa. The two dimensions start merging at one point. It's at this point it is genuinely really confusing what is going on. The third act really again falls apart, and the climax is like, not that satisfying because it just like they pretty easily are able to blow up Coopa with a BA bomb and then they de evolve him into a dinosaur and then Goo. But also they like defeat the like mob boss in Brooklyn who is like the real estate guy. Yeah, I de evolving him into a chimpanzee, right, which was also like, okay, we'd solve that problem pretty quick too, Like now we're gonna go back to the underground world and I guess that's fine. Yeah, everything's great. Um so every celebrating the fungus king returns to his human self, and then Mario and Luigi go to leave and return to Brooklyn, and Daisy's like, I'm gonna stay here, and Luigi's like, damn, girl, but I love you and she's like yeah, but I gotta figure out who I am and he's like respect wow, so and sort of Mario says that for him, yeah, it's because Maria's an ally and watching them kiss for a little too long, but it's a horny movie, very horny. And then Mario and Luigi go back to Brooklyn, back to their normal lives. Some time passes, and then one day Daisy shows up at their door and it's like, you gotta come with me and they're like okay, which is setting up a sequel that never happens because this movie was a box office flop. Yeah. Also, I did like the implication that she's like, you know, Cooper is dead, my dad's me back. We got to rebuild the city. Things are gonna be good again. And then she comes back like her clothes are all torn, She's like covered in soot. She has like this huge gun. She's like, I need your help. It's like, what happened down there? Things are supposed to get better, right right to people turned on the monarchy? Yeah, maybe Spike and Iggy took over because they're just like death to the king. Actually, shall we shall we take a quick break and then come back to discuss many of the complex themes in this an incredible movie. Yes, let's we'll be right back, and we're back. I wanted to talk about before we get into the deeply nuanced discussion this movie requires, Yes, I want us to just do some recaps of behind the scenes stuff that happened in this movie. It is I think, equally notorious for being a very messy behind the scenes story as it is for being a movie that's considered to be bad. There's a really good half hour short doc on it on the YouTube channel Gaming Historian, where I learned a lot, including it just like feels so of the time, the way that they were trying to build this. They originally hired the screenwriter for Rainman, Yes, to write the screenplay, and then he was fired because they didn't like the script because they said it was too similar to Rainman, which I don't know what that means, to the point where they called the script Drainman, which is funny because of plumbing and pipes ha ha ha. But or is this a bit no, this is true, This is like really called it Drainman. Maybe it probably like has the working title. That's still though, and I think that like part of the reason this movie is so weird in a way that we obviously like. But it's like this was the first big Hollywood video game adaptation ever. I think it was so poorly received at the time that they didn't make another live action Nintendo movie until Detective Pikachu over twenty five years later. Like this movie, it's scared Nintendo big time in terms of like adapting their properties into movies. But in any case, at the time, it was seen like as experimental and like Mario is like too big to fail. They're like, well, let's hire some experimental filmmakers and like see what they do, because that was sort of what was done at the time. I don't like, I think it was positioned as like what a weird thing to do, but it's like giving Tim Burton Batman was weird and that worked out great, and like there were sort of scrappy indie filmmakers that were given these big properties and it would do well, so like made sort of sense. They hired this director turned producer named Roland Joffey, who had won an Academy Award before for making a movie about genocide and Cambodia. So again it's just like which I'm sure is a great movie, but it doesn't seem like a natural fit for the Super Mario Brothers movie, but they give it to him. He hires the screenwriter from rain Man, like it just seems all bizarre. They hire the production designer from Blade Runner, which I think is why this movie looks so cool. Yeah, they hire an Academy Award winning cinematographer as well, and then they end up like they have trouble with casting because Nintendo has opinions on who should play Mario who shouldn't. Dustin Hoffman almost played Mario, which I think would have been fun, but also I guess if the Rainman issue was already an issue, that would not help. I don't know. And then Tom Hanks was almost Mario. I think that would have sucked. That would have been normal, too normal, you know what I mean. Yeah, Mario shouldn't be like I don't know, Bob Hoskins makes more sense. The only person who would make more sense than Bob Hoskins is Danny DeVito, who was offered the part and turned it down because he's at the screen sucked because he's a discerning king. And then Coopa they wanted Arnold Schwarzenegger or Michael Keaton, and then they didn't want anyone for Luigi except John Leguizamo, I'm pretty sure, which is great. In any case, they ended up hiring there's two directors on this movie. It's a married couple, Rocky Morton and Annabelle Jankel, so we're like, Yay, there's a woman director on this movie. But unfortunately they're both evil. They were very hated by everyone. It sounds like they were. So. They were most famous for inventing Max's Headroom, like we're talking about earlier. They didn't have feature experience. They'd done like a bunch of very like eighties nineties gen X experimental music videos and shit like that, and then they were like, sure, we'll do like the Tim Burton thing and give you this big movie to direct, which they were bad at. Everyone in the cast started drinking during the day all the time. They called each other cruel names. The directors, I guess, were really demanding and also didn't know what they were doing. They were being very disrespectful to these like incredibly well regarded like cinematographers and production designers they had hired and were micromanaging people who knew what they were doing more than they did. It said that Rocky Morton poured hot coffee on an extra. John Leguizamo said that why they there's five hundred different versions of the story. Ultimately, it seems like he was mean, cartoonishly mean. At some point, like in production they wouldn't let the director talk to the writers anymore because the directors were constantly trying to get shit rewritten. The movie was rewritten almost every day, Like everyone was miserable. Yeah, John Leguizamo and Bob Hoskins are drunk during basically every shot of this movie, to the point where John Leguizamo like almost I don't know if he broke Bob hoskins leg or what happened, but like Bob Haskins was wearing a cast for a lot of the movie. It's just seems like it was pretty horrific. Yeah, Hoskins said, oh, yes, give me that quote. I love that quote. The worst thing I ever did Super Mario Brothers. It was a fucking nightmare. The whole experience was a nightmare. It had a husband and wife team directing whose arrogance had been mistaken for talent after so many weeks, their own agent told them to get off the set. Fucking nightmare. And then Dennis Hopper, who, by the way, I feel like is playing a similar villain to the villain he played a few years earlier in Speed he was like invoking some of that. He also thought it was quote a nightmare. It was a husband and wife directing team who were both control freaks and wouldn't talk before they made decisions. We've all been around couples like that. I think, yeah, just a fucking nightmare. So I think I'm which always kind of elevates the fact them. Like all things considered, I don't think it turned out that bad if people were that fucking miserable the whole time. There was also like I was looking for pictures of them. I couldn't find them, But I guess that they the crew hated these directors so much that they started like making T shirts that openly and they would wear them to set, like it was like, oh my god, hated these directors. It just seemed it seemed like they were really in the trenches over there. Whenever you like hear about these super toxic working environments, it always just is like it's wild to see like people at their limits, Like these are people on their worst behavior and it makes everyone on their worst behavior, and then they do just wild things like that where they're like I'm gonna make a T shirt just to tell my boss to go fund themselves, Like that is just wild. There is something. Yeah, it was like I know, like we've all been in like whatever job it is for you that you're like, this is where I really became a different version of myself because I was so upset about where I was working. And there is like something so powerful about bonding with co workers who are miserable in the same exact way you do, or you are and like are mad at the same authority figure you are, and then you make a T shirt sometimes off good. I would love to see this t shirt. Anyways, that's the background of this movie. Can I share a couple additional things that I learned? Yeah, this one is just a fun fact. A lot of different screenwriters were brought on to write a draft and then fired basically, and then another screenwriting team or duo would be brought on too, you know, write the next draft. So one of these screenwriting teams that wrote a draft of the movie later said that essentially what we did was what Shrek did. How so they because their version was a take that was like subverting fairy tale cliches in satirizing them. So that's that fun fact. At another point, a different writing team was brought on. This was Dick Clement and Ian La friends of Lafrenis. I'm not sure, Lass, I'm not sure. They were brought on to deliver And I'm pulling this from scholarly journal Wikipedia of course, which, by the way, the Wikipedia entry for this movie is one of the longest Wikipedia entries for a movie that I have ever seen. Oh, I mean there's people love talking about disaster sets. Yeah, yes, so there's a lot here. But anyway, so this screenwriting tream was brought on to deliver a more adult and feminist tone where the version that they wrote Princess Daisy and Lena's roles were expanded, and they were the ones who added the character of Bertha, and it was their script that finally convinced Bob Hoskins to take on the role of Mario. I'm not totally sure how much the script was rewritten after that draft, but it seems like probably significantly. Probably, But also I would guess that, like an earlier draft, Lena's role might have been scaled back, and so like her prominence in the movie that we see, I wonder if that was like thanks to this draft of the screenplay. I hope, so, I mean, and also I mean, we'll talk about this in a little bit, but like Daisy, I don't know, that's why I was like, I feel like Daisy seems like maybe a victim of a lot of rewrites where she starts out as a super like motivated and smart and cool character and then she's like she disappears for a pretty big chunk, but then she comes back at the end and like becomes a more active character at the end. But she's kind of like, I mean, I guess that's like the most Mario thing in the world to do is to have a princess in a tower. That's cannon. But I did appreciate that, Like, it wasn't just like we're gonna put her in a tower for most of the movie and she won't have a personality and blah blah blah blah blah. Like she had a lot of cool stuff going on. Yeah, this isn't a side that this soldis reminded me of. But have y'all ever played or do you know about the one Princess Peach game that they made? No? Never played it. No, it was for the Nintendo DS. I did play it and loved it, but it is like the only one where Princess peaches a protagonist. She's proactive and her powers no joke are is like her emotions. She's very emotional, social cry and it'll like flood, she'll get overly angry in line on fire. So it's a little bit of controversy. I like, you made the one woman character like overly emotional and that's her skill. But I don't know if that's just reminded me of that that is fascinating. I was like, I think I need the weekends to cook on how I feel about that? So wid um well, I guess, I mean, and in that way, this movie does better than that. Like she has she's a woman in stem she's a woman. She's running as like an undergrad running her own paleontology department because she's like twenty, so she's probably like a sophomore or junior or something. But she's like, no, I'm I'm leading this project of this like intensive New York City dinosaur find Yeah You're like, yeah, sure, great, Like I thought that was great. Like I like that it's also rooted in like who she is as a character, Like it makes sense that she's interested in dinosaurs. She's part dinosaur questions. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, not really sure, but it feels like they really thought it through. And with her relationship with Luigi, like he is doing the like auga cartoon wolf eyes at her at first, but I thought in general he was so he was very sweet to her, is very polite. He really liked her for her. They go at an actual date. Yeah, like he's interested and who she's like. It makes I liked that they connected on like not knowing who their real parents were. It just felt like a real cute relationship. I loved it. I am so here for this romance. Yeah. Yeah, like you said, he's he's so sweet to her. She's like insecure about what she does for a living slash her academic pursuits. You probably think him weird that I'm a twenty year old dinosaur genius and he's like, no, I think it's so freaking awesome. And so he's like interested in her work and her mind. And I love that moment with them on the sidewalk where they both are like, yeah, if you if you think I suck and I'm not cool, like you can totally like bail right now and that would be fine, and then she she's like I was gonna say the same thing, like if you want to bail on me, Like that's totally cool. I just thought that was so sweet. I was like, oh, but you guys are so great together. I loved them. It's and then when she introduces Luigi to her fungus dad, he's like, oh my god, it's such an honor to meet you. She had this like ball of goo. He's so cute, so sweet. I also love that they didn't make Mario the one who was gonna like get the girl at the end, like he's like, I got a steady girlfriend. I might kiss the judge from Legally Blonde on the side, but like I'm covered, I'm good, I'm here for my little bro. And I really liked that. I thought that was really sweet. Yeah, and his relationship with Daniella. I mean, even though Daniella doesn't get the same emphasis or like character development that Daisy does, it seems like they have a good relationship. And then I've been together for a long time. I do wish her name is Peach though yeah, right, I know, I don't know what. But then but they really like doubled down on they're like they're just in Brooklyn. It's just Brooklyn in nineteen ninety three, because there's a bunch of I mean, yeah, I don't know. I was expecting to not be into any of the romantic pairings introduced in this movie, but I thought, especially for nineteen ninety three, you're like, this is really sweet. They're like very affectionate, sweet partners. I just wish that like that Daisy and Daniella got to like participate in the action. Yeah, right, more or at all. Daisy has moments. I mean, she doesn't really participate in the action. She does have because it's like at the beginning she is very motivated and does a lot of stuff. Then she's kidnapped and is kind of sidelined for a good chunk of the movie, and then we basically just see her talking to Yoshi, which kind of gave me like Jasmine from Aladdin vibes where she's like, it's just me and my animal and we're trapped here and we're just gonna have little conversations and you're like okay, and then you get a little bit of her in Lena. I thought those conversations were pretty cool where I think I don't know. Sometimes you're like programmed with the expectation of like, oh, Lena will probably like feel bad for her and act maternally and blah blah blah. But Lena's like, no, I want to merge the worlds or whatever that plot point is, and I'll kill anyone who's in my way blah blah blah, And so you know, I thought that was fine, But then she doesn't really get to physically do anything again until she breaks out of the tower. But I was also honestly surprised that she breaks out of the tower. Yeah, mostly with the help well, because she keeps getting saved and then recaptured, But I don't think at any point she was actually like physically saved by Mario and Luigi. Okay, So, I mean the whole premise of both this movie and Mario Games in general is like, oh, we have to save the princess from Bowser or Cooper or you know whoever has kidnapped the princess, and usually it's Princess Peach. If we're talking about the video games. In this movie, it's Daisy, who is like Daisy canonically Luigi's girlfriend in the games. I mean, I think she's like the bee. I don't think anyone's canonically. I mean, I guess Peach kind of is canonic. There's like weird canonical stuff with the girlfriends, where like Bowser Junior is maybe Peach's baby. There's like I think it's in Mario Sunshine. There's like a cut scene where Bowser it was like she got kidnapped by Bowser, and then later Bowser Junior sees Peach and he's like Mommy, She's like whoa. But anyway, it's all to say, I don't know how much of the canonical relationships that there is, but I do think Daisy is the Luigi to Mario's Peach. Sure, So the premise of Games and this movie is like we have to save the princess who has been kidnapped and damseled, and then also like we have to save Daniella and the other women from Brooklyn who had been kidnapped. So the main like again narrative thrust of the movie is like he's trying to bring narrative thrust back, and it's the inciting incident is like Daisy getting kidnapped and Mario and Luigi having to like go into the alternate dimension to save her, and most of the movie is them trying to save her, which so it's a very like damsel and distress narrative. And I do think that there probably was a way to like remain I don't know, like I there's so many elements of this movie that are in no way faithful to the Mario franchise that am like, well why is that? I mean, like that element they keep pretty intact, although they again like they did more with it than I thought they would, but it is still like she's trapped in a tower for a lot of it. Daniella, poor Daniella, is kidnapped, and you think that's the inciting incident, but it's not because Mario doesn't even know what happens until the end of the movie. He has no idea. I also think there's ways to kidnap a character, specifically a woman, but not completely damsel her. So if they want to remain like faithful to the source material of like the Princess gets kidnapped, she can still be far more active in the story, and she can do things to save herself and make active choices that don't just completely leave her as a like a helpless damsel right. They also had like the whole necklace plot too, so there could have definitely been a world too where like she saves herself, where like she can steal the neck for herself and then they can help break her out or something where it's like she you know, because there are two things they need saving, right, aren't just like the girl? And then you know it's also the necklace too. Yeah, that's a kind of another missed opportunity where she's supposed to have this like vague special ability to merge the world that maybe she could have like made some use of to get herself out of the tower. Like if she's able to merge dimensions, why she's stuck in the tower? Right seems a little Yeah, Like I definitely think that there's things that could and should have been done different. And it's also like it wasn't like she wasn't set up with a lot of abilities. I was surprised that her like paleontology skills didn't come back more meaningfully either, other than like she's like uniquely able to like connect with Yoshi. I think it's implied because she like understands dinosaurs, but like outside of that, it's like you're in Dino World, you should be like uniquely useful here, but they but they don't really use that for a big chunk the movie. That's why Drassic Park works so well. The people who were in the park are dinosaur experts. Even the kids can't. He read a book about dinosaurs, so he knows what's what. So yeah, I think that there there were And again it's just I mean, I know this movie was written fifty times, and it seems like there were. I would guess that there's versions of this where she was more active in the second act, and that is just like not the version we saw, which is a bummer because I really liked how they set up her character to the point where I didn't like feel like the romance subplot was like taking up too much air. It felt earned. But then she just disappears for a big chunk, and poor Daniella, yes, is even worse off. Even though I think Daniella, I think it would have been really easy to write her reductively, and I feel like I've seen like Lady from Brooklyn, characters written off very reductively, but she's seen like I mean, she has written to be like I think she works at a Tanning salon is what we're told and when she and I liked that she and Daisy were both really different, but they like got along fine. They like seemed to you know, Like I liked what Danielle was like to set up the fact that she's wearing a meteorite, says like, oh, you should come to the Tanning salon. You'll have to take off that meteorite. Though. It's like a nice set up. But I like that it's like she's like a working class person as well, but like she's not made fun of or like made out to seem like a bimbo or anything like that. And none of the women from Brooklyn are really I mean, they're like maybe a little cartoonish, you could argue, and they all are damseled. I like that they were friends with each other though they didn't start like fighting in the prison or anything. And even the one who's like, well, she's from Queens and they like kind of rib her, but it's like all in good fun. I thought that was very charming, but we like her though. Yeah, And I also like that they somehow guts to keep cigarettes for the entire it was so funny. They keep each other warm, when they freeze the pipes. Yeah, Daisy is happy to see Daniella, even though they're like being held hostage together. It's like, oh, these women like each other. They get along. It's sweet, like and again it's like, could there be more done? Yes? Do I think that Mario needed to show up to save them? No, it seems like they probably could have broken out. I think I wouldn't have been bumped by them like a bunch of like brassy women from Brooklyn escaping Lizard Jail, Like that would fucking rule. I would love to see that there's only one goomba there that they have to they would have to have dealt with He's out numbered, right, And then like, yeah, I think that they probably that would have been a cool moment for Daniella to kind of like Unsinkable Molly Brown the situation and be like, let's get the fuck out of here. Because the second Mario shows up, they are immediately like active in their own escape and they're just like, well, maybe like he didn't even need to be there. That would have been a fun fun scene to have. But I did like that they were like, I mean, they like battering rammed their way out of there. And then went down the weird snow tunnel. I don't know. Again, I'm like points for effort more than I expected, but it was there were a lot of cool ways that could have gone for sure. The other big thing that I thought was pretty tropy as far as the portrayal of different female characters was with Lena, and I appreciate that there's like a female villain in the mix, but her thing becomes that she gets jealous of Daisy because Daisy shows up in the dimension, Coopa starts paying a lot of attention to Daisy. He's also like, have you ever been kished by a dinosaur? And then his face turns into a lizard for a second, he tries to kiss her. Oh my god. He's like, little girls never forget their first time a lizard kisses them. What is this dialog? So weird? But so he's like in the gross, like villainy way, but he's like enamored with Daisy, and Lena is like Jafari, Yeah right, Jafar esque, And because she's like in love with Coopa question mark, she gets really jealous of all the attention that Kopa is paying to Daisy, so she decides to like strike out on her own. She goes and is able to get the necklace. She loses it but then gets it back in the third act, and then she tries to put it in the meteorite, she gets fried and becomes a skeleton. So it does kind of seem like a yeah, like she there were sequences where she was clearly jealous that, but again, it was like it always felt like that character was a kind of weirdly written and Fianaa Shaw makes it work because she's herself, but like, it felt like there were always two things going on with her at the same time. It sometimes got confusing where it was like she was in love with Kopa but also she like craved Koopa's power, and I feel like it could have worked. It would have been easier for me if she just like wanted power and that would make most of her stuff make more sense, or like, I don't know, the being in love with Kopa and jealous of Daisy stuff just like didn't quite track for me. I felt like it was just it makes more sense if she's just like completely driven by a need for power and ambition, because the way her story ends does feel like a killed by ambition kind of trophy like thing because at the end she's like, no one's gonna help me. I'm gonna emerge the world. And there's whatever we could talk about movies where women are killed by their own ambition another day, because this is like not the beat. I mean, that's like some fatal attraction shit, right, But like Lena can't have it all, but she's she basically wants to be like the queen of fascism and it kills her, and that is a more like clean effective storyline than like and also I want Dennis Hopper to give me a little kiss or like, right, and I'm gonna be jealous, I'm at any other woman in the room, when realistically, if she's just driven by power, she would like having Daisy on her side is incredibly useful. Like if she has Daisy as an ally and shows Daisy kindness while she's being held prisoner, then that gives her a leg up over Koopa and the story could kind of play out a little differently, right, But whatever I thought, Fianna shot did a great job. And in terms of villainous outfits, I left satisfied her outfits, her makeup, her hair, blue dress, everything. When she got electrocuted her hair when all while that was fun. Oh yeah, it's like Glen Close, Corrella de Ville, It's great. I loved Kopa's hair, the like bleached like yeah, we can't really do corn rows, but we'll do like sort of I don't know, there's like there's a dinosaur that has a head like that. I'll take your word for it. Was like if they're they're they were going for that. Yeah, it's like a ridged cranial thing and they're like, let's do that with his hair. So I think, like a like all of the women we've discussed so far, Lena, they could have done better, but they did better than I thought I expected for nineteen ninety three. Yes, yeah. The last thing I wanted to say about Daisy is I did like that Yo, she brought her a gun. That was cool and I loved that. Why did they always it was like the way you worked the TV was like you held a gun to it. Like there's at one point looking Koopa was like ordering a pizza, but he was holding a gun at this like video call and it felt like he was like robbing someone through a video call, and I was like, what is happening here? No idea, And then there's that iconic Kopa line at the end of the movie where they're like zip zab zopping between the two dimensions. You're like, what the fuck is going on? But then at one point Dennis Hoppers like, give me that evil gun starts shooting Mario. You're like, what is happening? Um? I loved that line. I hope it was improvised when Dennis Hopper was drunk at work. Give me that. I also, can we talk about Mario and Luigi's like special handshake which just seems to be a high five or they intertwined their fingers and kind of like wiggle it around very half past Yeah, I was, I was even remember this. It had a weird handshake where they It was bizarre but mostly pretty subtle. I honestly assumed that that was a game thing, because I was like, that's weird. I guess that that looks better in cartoon form than in real life. That's bizarre. Yeah, I assumed that was like a holdover from the game that I just didn't remember. I don't think. So. There is a moment where you do find out that Mario that Mario and Luigi aren't like biological brothers that like that Mario took daddy yeah, and then Luigi's like yeah, Mario was like my mom and Mario was like no, he said, okay, fine, you were like my dad, and it's like they're too just and my uncle and everything else. You're like, yeah you guys. Um, there was like yeah, there's a few very nineties like the one like nineties no homo joke I picked up on was when Luigi was like, I don't hang out at flower shops and You're like, what is this? Oh? I really missed that. It's just like so I was like, wow, people really could not relax at this time, like I don't hang out at flower shops or nothing. I'm like, relax, Luigi, hang out at flower shops. I bet you'd like it. Yeah, they're nice, they smell good. Yeah, i'mlike toilets, which is where you hang out most of the time. Flowers are Mario cannon because of the like the Piranha flower. It's true, yes, the fireflower, and yes, do we talk about big birth I really quick? Yes, Um, I love her. I love her too. I didn't realize that she was based on a Mario character. Can someone explain that to me was she Yes, I think that she's like styled after a fish character. Wait, let's yes, they like jump out of the water. Yeah, yes, I know this fish. I mean, but if I didn't look that up, I would not have known that, I think, And it really seemed mainly seems like her dress is inspired by that, and then there's kind of little else. But I did want to say that she's styled after a big fish. I see. And you can make of that what you what you will, but that's what I learned. I love her character though she's like the most um. She and the the nameless older woman who gets thrown off of a bridge by her and are the most like actiony, like big Bertha. It's so weird because I think Bertha gets like the widest range of things to do of any woman in the script, possibly because she has big action sequence. She like steals the thingy that everyone needs. She gets like a rome essensual romance scene. She like assists the heroes and like it's a small part and she doesn't speak a lot, which kind of especially sucks, as I think the only black woman with a meaningful part in the movie. Yeah, but with I mean with the time she has on screen, it's like she's got range. There's a lot going on with her. I loved her, she's doing her outfit. I wasn't quite sure why after she realizes that Mario stole the necklace back that she was completely fine with it. But I also don't know why she stole the necklace in the first place. So you know, I kind of figured that was like a rules of the town. Everyone's sealing for everyone, So it was kind of a respecting of like, oh, you stole for me. That's sort of the vibe I got from it. Game recognizes game, Yeah, yeah, exactly, and I like, we said I love that when so Mario tries to like seduce her at first in like a more traditional like hey babe, how you do in kind of thing, and then she responds by punching him in the face. He goes, oh, wow, maybe she's shy. So then he goes back up to her and he's like, I've loved it when you punched me in the face, Please do it again. And then she's like, let's dance. Dance. It's like one of the best scenes in the movie. And then yeah, after that, she's their ally like she helps them escape, she gives them flying boots question Mark, and then she shows up again at the end during the climax and does something to help also, but I forget. Does anyone remember what she does? I forget, but she shows up. Maybe she doesn't even do anything, but she's just like whoo, and you know, not everything she doesn't make sense necessarily, but I love that she's there. I also appreciate it's not unique in this movie. A lot of people are doing shit that makes no sense, right. I also love that she wasn't like, Okay, well I danced with Mario, so now he's my boyfriend forever. She's just like, yeah, we just had this nice moment and now we're buds. Yeah. That shot of her when she realizes he stole the necklace and it pulls out and she's like, where did he get us? Kind of broke my heart, I'll be honest. But she bounced back pretty quick. Yeah, and she's a bouncer, so she was a bouncer. I get him. I really loved her. I would watch a hole spin off about that movie. I was also thinking I would love to see John Leguizamo reprise his role of Luigi in a live action Luigi's mansion. It would be so good. Yeah, haunted house, he'd be so good. I got the pipes in a haunted house, it would be so good. Another thing I learned from scholarly journal Wikipedia is that so John logiz Almo like once he was cast as Louis, he made a joke to the effect that he's like, oh, you know, you see a lot of Italians playing Latin people in movies, like how al Pacino did in Scarface. Now it's our turn because he's a Latin actor playing an Italian. Wow. So he rocks so much. He really is the best. I wanted to I think that's everything I have, which is good because I know we're running short on time. I just wanted to shout out the two lines in this movie that reminded me of other things. Yes, like a genius would so there was. There is the line where Luigi says I'm flying Mario, and like, can someone edit that into the scene from Titanic? I would never stop laughing. If Kate Winslet's mouth opens and John Legozama's Luigi voice comes out, I would just never stop laughing. The other line, this is a deep cut, This is did anyone else pick up on like the Twilight sounding moment in this movie? What? Oh, there's okay? So when Yoshi first comes in and Daisy's like, what is this? And then Kofa's like, go ahead and say it, and then she says dinosaur just like I was like, and then you're just like, climb on spider Monkey. Yes, I yeah, I was really sent to another time in that moment. Uh So yeah, if anyone's in the mood to edit that first, get on that right now. I think in that one, I would want the Twilight voices edited into Super Mario. That's the funnier. But I'm open to options. Um, and those are my last scholarly about this movie. Yeah, that was all I had. Have you, was there anything else you wanted to touch on? No? I thought it was so fun. I really found it. Every choice I thought was inspired. I had a much better time than I was expecting, because I don't always love like, oh it's so bad, it's good. I'm like, let's just watch something that's good then. But I thought this was legitimately like pretty fun, a lot of fun choices. I think, if you're going to reimagine Mario in a live action setting. I think this is the way to do it well. I would love for this style of like big swing adaptation to come back. Things are getting so stale, so boring, even when they're good, I forget about it immediately. Yeah, give me John Lake Wisama's Luigi's Mansion directed by an absolute freak that would make me like Juliet Ducardo's Luigi's Mansion. Like. Okay, okay, we can workshop ideas, but in any case, does this movie pass the Bechdel test? I believe it does. Does. Between Daisy and to Daisy and Daniellow, they do pass. Yeah, when they talk about the tannings on and that's a very important line of dialogue sets up the necklace, and Daisy and Lena I believe, are talking about power and legacy nine stuff like that. And then possibly I don't know if we I don't remember if we get names for the Brooklyn gals, But if we do, then there's a few exchanges with them that pass us well. True, but yeah, I mean again, it's not a lot, but it's more than I expected, which brings us to the one true metric, the Nipple scale, where we rate the movie on the scale of zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. Um. Here's the thing. There's a lot of tropes at play in this movie, namely that several women are kidnapped and damseled and don't really do anything to save themselves. And then you have the female villain being very jealous of another woman in a way that feels like I'm a male writer and I don't know how women interact except to be jealous of each other, so I'm going to write that. So those things felt very trophy, but it was doing better than I thought it would for a movie that's based on a property that completely hinges on a man having to save a woman. It's like Mario's whole thing as he has to defeat the villains to save Peach. So while that is also basically present in the movie, I was like, Oh, at least there's like other female characters that I wasn't expecting to be there. They're not doing that much, or at least not Daisy. Bertha does a fair amount of things that affect the plot, as does Lena. Danielle is not as much, but watch the spinoff whatever, right, right? So I would give this two nipples. Still not doing great, but hey, hey better than I thought. Right amount nipples? If you ask me good number nipples, I will give one to Bertha. I will give one two Yoshi. He's an feminist icon. Yes, I it is April Fools Week on the Bechdel Cast, and so yeah, because I had such a killer time watching this movie. I think we've appropriately kind of deconstructed the reasons that you know it works or doesn't and for for our purposes. But I'm giving it five nipples because I had a hello of the time and it's the first week in April, and fuck you, I loved it. I thought it was great. And they really shouldn't have poured hot coffee on that guy that was fucked up. So maybe I'll dock a half nipple because for the hot coffee incident that was bad. So four and a half nipples because I had fun and that's hard. Um, So four and a half nipples, and I'm giving them. I'm gonna give them. I'm gonna give them all for Danny to Danny DeVito for not doing this movie. I think that was a pretty powerful Oh yeah, Abby, what do you say? I would say you know more coming at it. I think also of its time, it's better than I expected as far as women speaking, just kind of in general. So I would give it a solid four nipples. Wow, Probably I had fun. I'm kind of Jamie. Of Jamie's attitude of like I had a good time. I think of the air it came out in, you know, could have been worse. And I'm going to give those four nipples to my cat because I don't think he has enough. Yes, and now he has twelve nipples because cats famously have eight nipples and that's cat facts. With Caitlin, you got to carry around some spars like like tires. Abbie, thank you so much for joining us. What a blast this has been. Yeah, thank you for having me. This is a ton of fun. And I really liked this movie quite a bit. It rocks. Let me know, if y'all watch Dead RINGERSTI list that episode come back? Sure? Where can people follow you online? Check out your stuff, etc? They can follow me on Twitter and Instagram and also on Twitch if they are a gamer gaming inclined and that is that why b B A A A b by Or you can just search Abby Russell. That's probably easier hell yeah, thank you so much for coming on. This is so much fun. Thank you. And let's I'm like, I guess, let's see let's see Chris Pratt Mario together. I hope it's good. Look, I have AMC play list. I want to see it. But it's fun. I bet that movie will be perfectly fun. I mean I think it'll be. I bet I'll laugh. Jack Plaque plays Bowser watch that. Yeah, I'm fine. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at becktel cast um. You can follow our Patreon aka Patreon at patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast, where we do two bonus episodes every month five bucks a month with a back catalog of I think like one hundred and fifty episodes. At this point you will not leave dissatisfied. And in April we are doing fem Bought April, so we're covering Megan and Life Size. So you should watch Smarthouse. Oh oh, I mean just for fun the all star sequence in that talk about a dance sequence. You can also grab our merch at tepublic dot com, slash the back poadcast and um with that, should we jump in some pipes. I'm gonna put on my moon boots and uh and steal your shit. I'm gonna de evolve into a disgusting fun guy. Please, yeah right, all right, bob Bye.