BREAKING: Buffalo Bills Fire Head Coach Sean McDermott — Where Does Buffalo Go From Here?

00:00:05
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where when you think this coaching cycle can't get any crazier, it gets crazier. I'm Greg Rosenthal in my garage on a Monday morning on the West Coast. It is evening in Manchester, where Ali Connolly joins us. You can check out Ali's work at the read optional substack. But we got him on last second because we had some breaking news on Monday morning. Sean McDermott is out fired after nine seasons as the Buffalo Bills head coach. Brandon Bean is not only staying as general manager, but he has been promoted to president and I don't know some sort of VP of football operations, so we didn't want to wait all the way till Tuesday afternoon to talk about this. Ali, I have a feeling you have all sorts of conflicted feelings about this after watching the ups and downs of what was a really successful nine year run for Sean McDermott in Buffalo.

00:01:08
Speaker 2: I do have a lot of opinions, and I'm operating on three hours sleep, so I cannot be hell responsible for any takes during this show, but that makes the show fun. It's a decision where I'm not in any way shocked. I am surprised this was the year they decided to do it after successive failures in the postseason, this probably being the second most heartbreaking one after thirteen seconds. But this is not the year Sean McDermott deserved to lose his job. It would be previous cycles where you could say, Okay, maybe it's time for the full reset. And if you're going to do a full reset, keeping Brandon Bean and promoting him to me is just ludicrous.

00:01:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a lesson in managing up that you know. This is true in all walks of life, not just the NFL. But sometimes it's not the guy or woman who deserves to keep or get the job. It's the one that does the best job keeping the job and cozying up to ownership. In this case, speaking of ownership, we'll just quickly read the statement that the Bills had sent out on Monday morning announced that Sean McDermott has been relieved of his duties of head coach. Sean has done an admiral job of leading our football team for the nine past nine season, said owner Terry Pagoula. So I am being a little bit of a jerk. Here, but to have a typo five words into the statement, which was like an hour after the insiders had it, that you fired your head coach is absolutely brutal. Yeah, Sean has done an admiral job of leading the team, but I feel like we are in need of a new structure within our leadership to give this organization the best opportunity to take our team to the next level. We owe that to our players and to Bill's mafia. And I do think beyond the typo, it is really relevant here Ali that Terry Pagoula, of the owner, led with the new structure. So Brandon Bean is now President of Football Operations and GM, overseeing all parts of the football operation and will be leading the search to hire the next head coach. And so it really is a decision that Brandon Bean is the guy. And I think you talked about you know, deserve and I thought McDermott did a better job this year, but the roster has been lacking, especially adding blue chip talent over the last few years. So it is fascinating to me that Bean not only stays but gets an upgrade. Because there was always a push and pull here between McDermott and Bean. McDermott essentially hired Bean after McDermott's first draft, which was, by the way, probably his best draft. I know it didn't have Josh Allen, but he really started the rebuild right in twenty seventeen. So he hires Bean, and then Bean eventually usurped him and twist the knife in out his way out.

00:04:00
Speaker 2: And even in that statement they imply essentially the Brandon Bean will hire the whole coaching staff, not just hire the head coach, that the coach goes and picks his on people. So just shocking to me that this guy has managed to fail his way up in that regard. I think if you look at the failings of the Bills this season, and particularly in a one off postseason game, one sample size, you can pinpoint almost all those failings at the feet of the GM rather than the head coach. Now we don't know exactly in those personnel meetings who was lobbing for who, who was setting the direction with the franchise, but I think if you look at their cardinal sin as a team going into the season, it's the general construction of the roster, it's the philosophy of the roster, it's how they assembled an offense last season that was ahead of its time. They raced to a new direction on offense that took the league by storm, effectively kind of guided where the league went this season, and then fundamentally misunderstood themselves defensively and didn't build anything that was designed to counter those meta trends that they themselves had set. That is so hard to do, to get the theory of your team wrong. And I step back and look at what they built the fence. He's a rosta, and it screams to me that they built themselves to be one team in the postseason and that team didn't turn up for the party. And to me, that is like the most fireball of all. File is so arrogant, And everything about Brendan being frankly has been arragont throughout his tenure, but that ross construction is pure arrogance.

00:05:19
Speaker 1: Yes, maybe the only team that was unhappy that Patrick Mahomes didn't make the playoffs. It's hard not to think back though to Saturday. It's a rough way for Sean McDermott to go out. In many respects. I gave him grief because I hated how hard he went in the paint just only talking about that call, calling the reporters afterwards saying he's standing up for Buffalo but really inciting Buffalo and the anger over that call, which I guess you have to call it controversial just because enough people are upset about it. But of all the calls, it seemed pretty it seemed like a pretty clear call, and it just bothers me. I hate when these men in leadership positions who always talk about principles and taking responsibility and owning up to when you struggle, when things really get hard, and that's when we learn about you, just point the fingers. The number one guy for me this year doing that was.

00:06:13
Speaker 3: The Notre Dame athletic director. I forget his name now. All of Notre Dame really bothered me.

00:06:20
Speaker 1: It's just like, hey, when you actually come up short, just blame everyone else. But McDermott did a little bit of that, but ultimately he was also quietly blaming Brandon Bean in press conferences, especially in the playoffs. But when I pointed out that he's been doing that lately, kind of talking about how you really missed Jacoby Myers, you know, or you really appreciated how great Jacoby Myers had done and the lack of cornerback depth. They had Darius Slay by the way, when I was going through the free agents for them this year, it was just funny to see, Oh, Darius Slay's a free agent for the Bills this year. That trade left them short at cornerback, and he was almost taking shots at Brandon Bean in public. And that speaks to what must have been a clear fracture between Being and McDermott. At some point, you know, they were hand in hand. I think McDermott was the more powerful one for most of if not the entire tenure, but at some point I guess Being got the favor status in terms of ownership and that they were not really seeing eye to eye. It's tough to wonder though, when that where that comes up in terms of roster construction, because you know, the defense in fairness looks a lot like you know, his defense from six years ago.

00:07:36
Speaker 3: A lot of his favorite players are still there.

00:07:38
Speaker 2: It does. I mean they had a ton of injuries. You bringing guys, I mean going down in your shield of shock Thumpson and tra Davious White, and you being able to hang in a one skull game where the only way you give explosive plays. Is you're rolling in the seventh and eighth cornerback and Showan Payton picks on them for deep brockets in the postseason, that's a pretty tough way to go out. I give mcdam a ton of credit. I was not in any way. Mcdem found through the early phase of the Josh Allen experience where his defense was so static it was sedated. Was the same group he had in Carolina. It was not keeping up with the modern times in the league. And then he had this kind of epiphany. I don't know if he went on to my Aahuascar venture whatever he did, but he starts going for it on fourth down. He kind of leads this disguised based world that defense is in and other guys get all the credit. Right it's Vans, Jos Fitz, Mike McDonald. He is going so far out on the extreme compared to other people. And one thing I like I admired about McDermott is he would throw people under the bus all the time, so I don't think he can be too upset about this decision. But every time he just kind of got into a room and said this isn't working. Defensively with my DC calling it, I'm taking it over. Their metrics was skyrocket to the moon, like the stop market taking off the week after he stepped in, and his ability to become midstream in the middle of his head coaching career. A specific design, a game plan coach who gives you a serious advantage with no personnel, ill fitting personnel to face the offense, no guys who can just play one on one matchup football, and to able to grind through games without the right stuff. I thought was really really impressive. So he became to me discuss of a neutral coach. He made was raw, raw culture guy to being a really additive coach on the defensive side of the ball. I had a great vision for where the league was going on offense before everyone else. Everyone getting credit about big personnel and extra lineman they were there a year ago. I'm wrecking people, and then they just misevaluated it themselves for how they would try and stop it if anyone tried to replicate this.

00:09:18
Speaker 1: And I do kind of want to get to the big picture first of all, like where McDermott could go, where the Bills could go in terms of their coaches in just the tenure in general, because I do think it's fascinating what it says about the last decade in the NFL. But I don't want to leave Saturday quite yet, because the crazy thing is he did in this game what you've been talking about him doing as a coach all year, which is adjusting in game brilliantly, and for a while in that game, he's sending pressure against the Broncos. It looks like they're going to be able to pull off another comeback. It's not just the Broncos who've been pulling off these comebacks.

00:09:53
Speaker 3: It's been the.

00:09:54
Speaker 1: Bills all season long. And they're so close. If Josh Allen doesn't one hop Khalil Shakir, or you know, if he doesn't miss that throw to Dawson Knox for the potential game winning touchdown. Obviously, if Brandon Cooks holds onto that ball, and I and I do know when you looked at the All twenty two that you know Alan might have had a hand in his face on that throw to Knox.

00:10:14
Speaker 3: It wasn't wasn't the simplest throw. There's a lot of what ifs.

00:10:17
Speaker 1: But the crazy thing is, and this is just the NFL and this is where you get to deserve and sometimes the ball just doesn't bounce your way, like I think I would take them over the Patriots maybe at the very least. It's just at worst, you're it's a fifty to fifty coin flip on the road in the AFC Championship and we could be talking about this as the best coaching job that the Dermott did and they're in the super Bowl and it would have been a fascinating moment. They would have been underdogs I think in the super Bowl, but it would all be different and that's just that's just football, and so that.

00:10:48
Speaker 3: That is just unfair, but it is.

00:10:50
Speaker 1: Uh. I guess ironic is maybe the wrong word, just that he goes out on one of his best jobs.

00:10:55
Speaker 2: I mean, it's probably helpful for the coaching and to be's he's going to have coming up that he did a great job rather than being viewed as a done the head down line. But it seems like he just lost, like the Game of Thrones or duncan Egg I guess now power struggle in the building and that typically happens because the GM gets to sit next to the owner in the suite and complain about the coach and ignore all the roster failings they've had, not going and getting one on one winners at receiver, every big ticket free agent item missing, right, We're gonna go in import pass rush, Von Miller dud Joey Bosa doesn't make a single play in the postseason until he hits bone Nicks ten seconds after a play, trying to show he's a tough guy, and then coming out with all the stuff about it just his theory of the team. Brandon Bean was so off, arrogantly talking about the receiver position, talking at the trade deadline that all these young whipper snappers GMS they just played fantasy football. Well, those guys made some pretty impressive moves that made their teams better down the stretch of the season. Meanwhile, McDermott's going out with all these all the defensive pieces, just guys he trusts and can communicate, and whenever they have to throw Brandon Bean's young fellas out into the lineup to get fried over the head. So it's a tough one for him. I think it's a pretty brutal firing, but I think if you take the totality, it makes sense. I don't want to sound like, I'm just defending mcdemmit completely. I mean, there's a lifespan for these things. They it ran its course. I think it's fine to say they need a fresh new voice, but doing that while keeping the GM in place just makes no sense to me.

00:12:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that's the part that is tricky. And I know you're you're firing right now on three hours sleep. How much how much coffee are you just mainlining because you're on like East coast time and just staying up for these games and watching. Man, it must have been, it must have been crazy to what did anything stand out to you? By the way up from that Bill's Broncos game, rewatching.

00:12:35
Speaker 2: It, standing out, rewatching it. Bonis is absolute nails. Throwing the ball down the field, good point. What else there is to say it? I love the Bonix. It took him until one p Sason game in front of a ginormous audience to prove that he's not just some kind of like can move around a little bit, dump the ball out guy, like he can really rip the ball down the field and Seoan mcdommot doesn't have a job because Bonicks can rip the ball down the field.

00:12:57
Speaker 3: It's crazy.

00:13:00
Speaker 1: He's the sixth winning or of the six winning this active head coaches, so not including Belichick here, four were fired or quit during this cycle. So that's Tomlin, Sean Payton, who's obviously still coaching, John Harbaugh, Pete Carroll was fired, and now McDermott. McDermott finishes in Buffalo ninety eight and fifty incredible record, top twenty all time in terms of winning percentage only quote unquote eight and eight in the playoffs.

00:13:29
Speaker 3: It's a lot of win one, lose one playoff runs.

00:13:33
Speaker 1: You know, I think they they peaked really in that twenty to twenty two window. You know, they make the AFC Championship Game, lose to a better Chiefs team in twenty in twenty one and twenty two, even though they only won eleven games in twenty one, they led the NFL in point differential in both of those seasons. And I've said it many times, but I'll always believe if they win the coin toss for that over time against the Chiefs, I think they're winning the super Bowl that year, even though that was the eleven one year they didn't make it to the conference champ that was a divisional round game. And then twenty two, they were excellent too, and that was the Damar Hamlin season and they ran out of gas and got beat pretty bad there.

00:14:17
Speaker 2: But you've made this point in plenty of times before, which I think is a great point that often the team that isn't close to being the best one is decided that breaks through. And it really was that for them this year. Brandon Cooks, just hold onto that ball. I do believe they go to the super Bowl and then who knows in a sixty minute shot with Josh Allen at quarterback, but they've had significantly better teams. They've had better teams whey he's be more at fault and they decided not to move on. Then they have a significantly worse team where they're only in the party to begin with because of Josh Allen and what he's done for them defensively, and they still decide to move on.

00:14:48
Speaker 3: Ben, I've asked around. I'm sure. I'm sure you have too a little bit.

00:14:52
Speaker 1: Josh Allen has to be consulted in this, right, they have to know his general feelings.

00:14:58
Speaker 3: Do you think that's that's fair to surmise?

00:15:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's very fair.

00:15:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you don't know the specifics of how much this or that. But I have seen some Bills fans, you know, wondering that basically, And I don't think this decision gets made without Josh Allen being involved, which kind of takes us to who could be the next head coach immediately. People throwing out Brian Dabele coming back or elevating Joe Brady. It's hard to say if that's just people not connecting. Do you have any gut feeling of where they might go next?

00:15:40
Speaker 2: I think from personal experience, the person throwing out Brian Dable reunion is Brian Dable and I admire him tremendously. This is the best head coach opening, possibly in five years, that you get to walk in with an MVP in his prime. Roster is not great, not in great shape, but you have a settled offensive line. They did lose their offensive line coach and maybe the very best in football who retired after the game on Sunday, Aaron Chromer. That is a huge loss for them, as big a loss as losing the game frankly on Saturday, because he was such a force multiplier for them and keeping Josh Allen clean an individual play development, so they ripped that out of the building and they lose the great defensive mind, but you still get to walk into an MVP caliber quarterback in his prime. So to me, it's the best job opening in a long long time, and who wouldn't want to put themselves up for the job. But if you go through the list of guys that they could look at, it looks like it's going to be offensive side of the ball, and that makes sense. They've kind of signaled that in their messaging. I don't think it's a job where you can have someone learn on the job where you walk in following the guy. Where the point is, you've got to have a parade or it's a failure and you're going to bring in what a thirty four year old, a thirty year old who's never done the job before, he's been in the league three or four seasons, like Nat shield Ars or Grant Udinsky, So you're going to have to go with a retread type candidate or promoting Joe Brady. The failing this season was not on the coaching staff, so maybe you just think you broke Joe Brady and if you can fix things on the margins and you bring in a similar caliber guy defensively, you can get over the whole. Brian Dable to would be an absolute no go read tread high for them. But if it's just what Josh Allen wanted to makes him comfortable, that probably just have to come into the conversation.

00:17:09
Speaker 1: And I think it's a situation where the GM in this case, Brandon Bean is gonna be wanting to hire the opposite of McDermott in that he's gonna want to have a guy who he can control, Like Brandon Bean is in charge now, So who's gonna go along with the program?

00:17:24
Speaker 3: Now?

00:17:24
Speaker 1: That could be guys he knows. Davis Webb was in that building once too. Was he either was he a quarterback under Brian Dabors or was he a coach under Brian Dable?

00:17:31
Speaker 3: I can't even remember.

00:17:32
Speaker 2: He was a quarterback and he had that great famous profile where he self proclaimed himself Josh Allen's best friend without consulting Josh Allen. And who in fact is his best friend is? That's another one where I could see that happening. I could see him coming in as the offensive coordinator assistant head coach to be alongside Josh Allen, depending on if you bring him off a CEO type guy as just the head coach, or you do end up with a defensive guy because you know you're getting Davis Webb in there. But you cannot put the best friend of the quarterback in the position to be the guy who must in a Super Bowl. As we open a new building of whis it's a catastrophic failure that is unfed to do to that coach to be that's.

00:18:06
Speaker 3: A great call about the new building.

00:18:07
Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that, and the in the Bills ownership situation makes me push back. I think the Ravens would be is a better job. I don't know why. I just trust the building more. You do have Lamar there as well. You can make, you know, the case for Josh Allen moving forward over Lamar or whatever, but I trust it. I just feel a little more comfortable if I if I was a head coach going into this, that the Ravens is maybe a better job, which also makes me think about I wonder if John Harbaugh and Kevin Sefanski are looking at this.

00:18:41
Speaker 3: That's interesting.

00:18:42
Speaker 2: I think New York state law has like a fullteing day cool down period on contracts. I wonder if John Albo's calling the lawyers and seeing what is I wonder if you know Kevin O'Connell Shane Steiken wishes he was fired in this cycle. He's looking around going why didn't you just fire me? I could have been Lama's coach. I could have been Josh Allen's coach. I wonder if Kevin o'cannall calls the agent and says, you know our first round pick, you get me away from JJ, you get me to Josh Allen. If you just go through the number of prove on offensive commodities, which is what everyone wants, is some kind of scheme savon on the offensive side of the ball, and people, particularly on the certain side of the internet, just do away with all the head coach responsibilities. Just scheme up football for Josh Allen and will take us to the promised Land. It's a pretty thin bucket of guys you can look at. I can't imagine they'd be in the m McDaniel businesses because of the seeing it up close in person in the division. That would be a massive swing from Sean McDermott to Mike McDaniel. You couldn't get more opposite personalities and so as you go through it, it's a pretty thin list of candidates who actually would fit the model of maybe the best job opening in five six years, which is where I would certainly start my proceedings by calling Change stike In, calling Kevin Interesting and asking them if they just have any interest if we flow our first round pick.

00:19:48
Speaker 1: Out that I mean, is that a dry on the matt lea flir condrac I doubt it. That's just agreed to at this point. Why do you think it's better than the Ravens job.

00:19:59
Speaker 3: Something?

00:20:00
Speaker 1: The ownership situation has me just the I mean, it's it. The Poles have been good for Buffalo and everything, they're getting the stadium built, but just feels also that Brandon Bean is there, and Brandon Bean feels like he actually will have juice. And so you're risking a little bit of the Raheem Morris situation that he just had in Atlanta, where the GM is on a shorter clock than the head coach because the GM is out. If this doesn't happen in the next two years, I would think, and then everyone is just out.

00:20:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bet would make will purely be Josh Allen. Raheem did not walk into Josh Allen. He walked into Penis and Cousins, and I thought Ben Jonson did something similar, which was staple myself to the quart back without absolutely loving the situation with the front office and known aship and as I wing games, I crew power, and I can just start walking through the building who I don't like. And if you get to a championship game, you get to a super Bowl, you can clean house as the head coach because you'll be the biggest guy in the city and you'll have all the power that you want. And Josh Allen is the cleanest path to do that. It's just more Mar's health than Josh Allen's health, though both may be risky moving forward or better than that. But I will say Steve Bischotti's press conference after the elect John Harbor go is maybe the most electric thing I've ever seen an owner do in public. I adored every minute. I'm going to say it's like a wake up motivation clock in the mornings and him saying, and you mentioned it before with whether Josh Allen would have input into the decision, when Bishadi said, which is out all owners, I think believe, but don't say it publicly, which is everyone gets an input, but I have the power, unbelievable billionaire insecurity to let people know slamming the table, I'm the man with the power. I imagine that's how it goes down here. And I don't love being tied to Brandon Bean, but I think you just have to close your eyes and say, well, Brendon might be frustrating and annoying and build a poor roster. But I do get Josh Allen on third and goal to win a game, and not.

00:21:47
Speaker 1: To get too deep into it, but there's just some concern like Kim Pagoula was helping very actively to run the team and then she's had health and medical problems the last three or four years that has taken her out from doing that. I actually was watching some Australian Open coverage Big Tennis guy after the Senate and Jesse Pagoula, their daughter, who's you know, a top ten player in the world, wrote on the camera after she won that was a catch with a frownie face. And she's thirty one years old. And there's a hole if you want to get deep into it. Succession style battle going on there. And I agree with the Bills fans that I saw on social media. That's hoping Jesse Pegoula like wraps up this tennis career in the next five or six years and she's the one that takes over because she's sharp. I know I'm just viewing from afar, but I really like Jesse Pegoula.

00:22:35
Speaker 3: All right.

00:22:36
Speaker 1: Last thing is I do want to just give some love. When they took over, and it was McDermott with the power like, it was a rough situation. They had not made the playoffs in what sixteen seasons? They end that streak in McDermott's first season. If you were teaching how to rebuild a franchise, you could do worse than what he did with the Buffalo Bills first draft first pick Tredevious White. Now, granted they trade down in a draft they could have taken Patrick Mahomes. That was brought up to me when I mentioned this, but Tredaevius White, Zay Jones, you know, Okay, Dion Dawkins, Matt Mulano in that first draft, that's huge. They bring in Mike up Hyde and Jordan Poyer as cheap free agents in the first offseason right there, and that's none of that's Brandon Bean, by the way, that's all McDermott. I mean, that was as big a home run as you could ever have. The next couple drafts have Josh Allen, Harrison Phillips, Tron Johnson, Tremaine Edmonds, at Oliver Dawson, Knox. They've had actually some really good drafts that popped up here and there after that, Like twenty two with the Benford draft was very good. But it's gone fallow the last three years, and the free agency stuff has been even worse. So it's really if you're judging off just the last three years, it has not been great. And this gets me to my final question here, which is what do you think of the theory of that, Like coaches gms, they do their best stuff off the bat, like they do their best, most inspired stuff in the first five or six years, and it's a little unfair, but it just seems like it's it's true, that's when they come in with all the ideas and the connections and this and that, and they do it immediately. I think McDermot could do it again somewhere else, but it's almost like you need to take advantage of that first five six year window or else it starts getting a little calcified in stale.

00:24:24
Speaker 2: I agree with that, and I think that the idea of the five year talent with the quarterback and coach, if they don't win one, that it's just not gonna happen, so you may as well not keep running it back. I think that is true. In fact, I think mcdomm is a bit distinctive in that he had a complete metamorphosis in the tail end of this run in a way that I just never fathom to be able to put together. I don't know why he got that new influx of energy and ideas to completely reshape his model defensively and on offense too, frankly, So he's a little bit different in that regard. The drafts certainly went stale. But yeah, if you don't get over the home about the five years, is probably best to just potways.

00:24:57
Speaker 1: And it's unfair, and I just keep seeing a lot it's like, oh, what is the NFL come into being?

00:25:02
Speaker 3: You know, so short sighted? I'm thinking, like, I.

00:25:04
Speaker 1: Mean, look at the Premier League, So those guys are lucky to get like eighteen months if they're doing well, Like look at at the NBA like they they change their coaches, like like anything like uniforms. It's it's it happens, and I guess it's not fair, but it was time. If you were picking a spot, I wouldn't mind seeing McDermott sit out the cycle because I kind of don't want him to go to Arizona necessarily, or Tennessee or a place that it's gonna where he's gonna be fighting uphill. I think he is a good candidate for a second job. Do you agree on that one.

00:25:39
Speaker 2: I think he's a solid candidate, and it'd have to be the right situation. The one that I look at where I think you could have a real immediate impact would be Vegas, where he could kind of reestablish what a disaster it's being and get everyone on the same page and build a solid infrastructure and just hand to off them on the hot shot young offensive minds in three years and you at least build a stable in a foundation.

00:25:56
Speaker 3: Now.

00:25:56
Speaker 2: They tried that with Pete. That was the same game plan and it was a complete But I think mcdermosell's his pulse on the game enough where he be able to bring in cool, fresh ideas assemble a great staff The problem he's got right now is it being so late in the cycle everyone already or not everyone, but multiple teams are the final spans of interviews. I'm not sure if they're going to say no to some of the finalists to sit down and interview Sean McDermot where his stock is that high around the league to be able to do it, and it's going to be left up to Arizona where he can have the similar kind of influence he would have in Vegas. That just feels like a milk toast six to seven win couple of seasons and everyone shakes hands and moves on after it, whereas at least in Vegas he would have the upside of maybe Fanando Mendoz a special he could build something for the medium term.

00:26:38
Speaker 1: It's easy for me to say, but he's getting paid a lot of money to not coach the Bills this year. He's only going to be fifty two years old when the next head coaching cycle starts. I think that's plenty of time for a good kind of two point zero version. And you might benefit from being away from the game, and I think you would be a solid higher in the right situation of what you said like he still had his hand on the pulse of how to coach up defense.

00:27:04
Speaker 3: Ollie, appreciate you.

00:27:07
Speaker 1: This was a last second bat signal call over to Manchester, so thank you for jumping in on very little sleep and a lot of coffee. Chris Babona, by the way, shout out to our producer. He was apparently in bed when I texted him if he could come in that he's coming.

00:27:25
Speaker 3: In on what would have been an off day. Shout out to him too.

00:27:28
Speaker 1: You will hear from myself next in the feed with our next Forties and free Agents episode with Daniel Jeremiah looking at off seasons in the AFC, at least until another coach gets fired.