But I'm a Cheerleader with Jenny Chalikian

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Speaker 1: On the bel Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef in best start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hi, Welcome to the Backdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Toronte, and this is the backtel Cast, our podcast about how women are portrayed in movie through an intersectional feminist lens. I know, oh, I just want you for them now they know they well, Welcome to the beck Del Cast. We are like activated right now. I'm less exhausted, I'm drinking of Mike's hard lemonade. We're literally Rooney and Garland right now, aged twelve. I'd like to be Rooney, please. I don't Ohoney and Judy Garland arn my king. I love baking Rooney, I love small thick Hey speaking okay, so us talking about Mickey Rooney means that our conversation is not passing the Bechtel test, always bringing it back. The Bechtel test, which is what is the inspiration for our podcast, requires that a movie has two female characters with names who talk to each other about something other than a man and based on armed version of the Bechtel test. It just has to be like a two line exchange among two female identifying characters. Let's try it, shall we. I'd love to Hey Caitlin, Hey Jamie, I was thinking about going to Chipotle after this. Are you inviting me? Or are you just telling me? Do you want to comment? I don't know if you funk with Chipotle? Oh? I fuck with Chipole? Let's do it? Okay? Fun ye? Two women making plans our new show or taking another out? Amazing two dope. Queen's making plans to get to Chipotle together as a group. And that's the whole title of the podcast. Yeah, I have to say it in one breath. So we're here to talk about a movie, as we always are, and as we always do. We have a guest and our guests. Let's again just reminding you what this podcast is. Sometimes every time we reiterate what the podcast is, I do somehow internalize it as like Jamie's so dumb, she probably forgot what the podcast is about. But that is part of our job and it's not a reflection on me, and I just have to do more cognizant time I'm just always assuming that every episode we do is the first episode that one of our new fans listens to one of our new fans, Right, We're always having new fans, so many fans. I've addicted to the fans I'm getting I'm so tired, so I don't know what's happening if this is the first episode you're listening to. Well, sorry, let's introduce our guests. Yes, I'm so excited. I feel so bad she has had to see this much. Yeah, she is a wonderful person. She was my colleague at the Nerdest show room at Meltont Comics, and she's a hilarious comedian. Jenny to Loocky in, Hi, thanks for being here, Thank you for having me. Of course, so you brought us, But I'm a cheerleater, a cheerleadter. Tell us your history with this movie and when to do you first see it? What's your relationship? I saw it in high school. I saw it in Rome, Georgia, in my friend's house. She put it on. I had heard nothing about it, and I wasn't a gay then. I just was just a freelance Jenny, A freelance Jenny. I was too stupid to know I was gay, And I watched this movie and yeah, it blew my tiny little mind. Wait, how old were you at the time. Oh, I did the five Year Plan in college. Seventeen sixteen. Okay, so around the age that Megan is in the movie. I think, so, yeah, did you have a similar experience where like people had to be like Jenny, I think you might be gay. Yes, A couple of people approached the object, and I was just like, what I would know, that, wouldn't I I would be the first to know I wasn't some people, some people caught on a little sooner than I did. So yeah, good steaks, because like I went to boarding school, I was I went to I was in an all girls dorm, and I was like one nine. Especially then, I definitely would know. I didn't. I was just like, girls are stressful. Didn't have anything to do with like your upbringing or I grew up in a pretty conservative religious household, but even then, like my parents were very pro me, I just didn't have any language to even figure out those feelings. Like I remember looking up gay and homosexual in the dictionary or the encyclopedia. We had an extensive encyclopedia and just not much information there. I used to look up the word penis in a dictionary me when I was like, probably who has You're a little freak, I used to. I had this elaborate plan. My friend Jade and I we both had such a big crush on Ashton Kutcher and we're both socially very weird. So we convinced our teacher, who was like a very young nice teacher for America guy, like we should be able to stay inside and google things during recess because we don't like going outside because we're losers. And he was like, okay, plenty well taken, stay inside and google things. And so we just google Ashton Kutcher nude frantically for days on end, just waiting for the right photoshop to look realistic enough for us to believe never happens. I saw this movie for the first time. I think I was like a freshman in college. Um, I had a friend of mine recommended to me, and I was a young film major at the time, so I was like, of course, I'll watch any movie. And I remember liking a lot, thinking was really funny, and I saw this movie and saved within I think probably like a few months of each other, and I was, yeah, I enjoyed them both. Me rewatching, but I'm a cheerleader for this podcast. Is the first time I've seen it in a long time, and I forgot how fun it was and like just how visually interesting it is visually so I had the style of this movie is so cool and I didn't know that I saw this movie before I knew who RuPaul was, so I totally forgot he was in it, and I kind of did too. Yeah, his character is so funny. He's great. And I saw this movie. For those of you who are playing Bettel cast Bingo out there, if we had Bingo boards recently anyways, if anyone's got their Bengo board out there, I did see this movie this morning and I loved it. I really liked this movie. There's definitely stuff to talk about that I really enjoyed. And just like from a visual standpoye, this movie is so cool in the way it uses like a very specific color palette and just I really like it. And the director of this movie. For we jump into queer female director Jamie Babbitt, who when I started doing research on her, I was like, this name looks really familiar to me, and I can't figure out why. I directed almost every TV in existing. My favorite episodes of Gilmore Girls were directed by this woman. She directed United States of Tara Diablo Cody Show. She's directing a lot of Silicon Valley. That's like Aaron right now, Like she's she's legit. She this was her first movie. Yeah, this was her first movie and it was just like pretty impressive. She also um she directed, and then the movie was produced by her I think then girlfriend who she later married but also then divorced, Andrea Sperling because she's now married to Carrie dornetto also a major I think producer in Hollywood. Ever heard of it? All the Hollywood heads out there are frothing now anyway. But yeah, she's part of the fun of watching this movie. It was like learning more about her and she seems so fucking cool. She directed my favorite episode of Gilmore Girls ever, which for all you Gilmore Girls sets out there, is Take the Deviled Eggs. She's really funny. Thank you, just a little bit of Jamie trivia for you. So yes, this is an example of a movie about queer people made by queer people. Oftentimes we encounter movies where there's like maybe one gay character. They're usually sidelined, we hardly know anything about them, and the movie was made by a bunch of straight people. You can tell the execution is three usually pretty they show their hand pretty quickly. Yeah, so I'll do the recap. Let's do it. Okay, So but I'm a cheerleader. It's about a character named Megan played by Natasha Laone, and she is a cheerleader and she has a boyfriend who when she makes out with him, she is picturing not him, but instead a lot of boobs and cheerleaders doing flips and butts and all kinds of non men body parts. Um, but she a very accurate description and guessing. So she goes home and her parents are like, um, hey, we're about to have an intervention because we're pretty sure you're a lesbian. And she's like, what, No, I'm not, and they're like, no, we're pretty sure. And then there's a really funny sequence where they're like gay iconography and there's like a Melissa Average post bluster and they're like, and you're a vegetarian and you're trying to make us eat tofu and you only ever have pictures of girls in your locker. I love how they basically do describe the like you seem like, I'm pretty good and ethical person. Therefore, we are sending you away. Right. So her parents are we can imagine, kind of conservative Christians. There's also the vaginal pillow. The vaginal pillow, I feel like that should have been an open and chut case right there. She lays her head down and it's just like, oh, okay, sorry, continue as well. The first time we see the parents, they're basically praying that she's not gay. So it's like, okay, yeah, we got some conservative religious parents. She's just in the dark. She's like, this prayer is very specific, is a very specific prayer. So they have an intervention and basically like, you're a lesbian and we don't want you to be, so we're going to send you to something called True Directions, which is a camp slash rehabilitation center to effectively turn gay youth into hetero youth. So they sent her away and she is reluctant, and she still does not acknowledge that she is gay. She thinks she is straight. And then so the facility is run by some named Mary, and she has what is clearly a gay. Moriarty one of the best character actors ever. Loved her work in Casper and I love the scenes where her voice is just like thirteen octaves lower than you're expecting. You're just like canthy. Moriarty basically is a cigarette and she is so amazing. I love her so much. She's she's great. Yeah, so we meet her and her son named Rock, who we can assume reference to Rock Hudson. Oh yeah, I didn't pick up on that, but yes, so I think we can assume that she has tried to turn what is clearly her gay son also into a straight person, and it is working to not great effect. She basically keeps him in a doghouse. It's crazy, but he's always like pulling on chainsaws and just like jerking off a rake, and all the dudes are an erotic housekeeper like her landscaper. It's just I love Rock Rock Ros. So Megan meets she meets all of her peers, who are other young people whose parents have been like, you're gay, and we don't like it, so we're going to try to turn you straight. At this camp. The first step is to like acknowledge that they are homosexual, and then they have to figure out what their root is, like why they have denied themselves of a heterosexual lifestyle. So there's all these different steps they have to go through. And Megan meets Graham played by Claia Duval and they who is my root? Like, yes, she's also the person who in She's all that tells what's her face to to kill herself and ion lots of iconic claim mamas. Yeah, maybe the worst vectoral tests passing scene of all time is clay as all motivated, where she's like, you could actually kill yourself and say that it's like they had names. Yikes. But anyway, so Megan meets Graham, and Graham is a little you know, she's kind of hardened, and she smoked cigarettes and she swears and all this stuff. Also the only character who doesn't apologize for being gay when we're introduced to her basically yeah, which kind of changes letters. So they get a little closer and they get a little friendlier, and then they eventually develop a romantic relationship. Meanwhile, all the people who are running the camp, one of them being the character Mike played by RuPaul, who is an ex gay. They're like, I used to be gay, but then I turned hetero. From the camp and even though it's like the gayest campable the time, it's oh god, I love the graduation office, which is raincoat fabric. Everyone's wearing raincoat, yes or something. You're just like, this is a music video, Like it's just it's it's incredible. So yeah, then Graham and Megan are like, let's run away together because like, this whole thing is bullshit. Like you you, you are who you are, you like who you like. You can't change that. And a lot of the characters do recognize this, but because of the press sure from their parents and society, they are, you know, trying to deny who they are and adhere to society's norms. And by the end, Megan's like, I'm not going to do this fun this like I like what I like, and I like girls, and I like cheerleading and I'm not going to apologize for that. She gets kicked out of the camp because she and Graham get caught kissing, so she gets kicked out, and then she's like, I can't believe Graham didn't come with me. So she goes back and effectively kind of rescues her from the graduation ceremony, just this whole cheer and then finally Graham because what's at stake for Graham is that she won't get to go to college or get her trust fund or anything like that because she comes from like a wealthy family. Right. But then she realizes like, yeah, fun this, I'm gonna embrace who I am and be with Megans that they run off together and that's pretty much the end. Also a movie that ends with two women scaling offense and escaping. Where usually the when we cover movies in this podcast, it's a man jumping over a fence to surprise a woman. This is two women escaping. Consensually big moment for fences. Normally, fences really get the shaft totally in film. Check out the movie Fences and it's been a plug for five Fences on iTunes. I haven't seen it seemed pretty well received. Um yeah, I mean it's an example of a movie that is based on a play, which are almost always extremely boring because it's nine dialect for doubt, just the greatest movie of all time. It's really good. Anyway back to but I'm a cheerleader, so but I'm doubt, But I have a doubt, but I have such a doubt. Yeah, that's the story of but I'm a cheerleader. And there's a lot to talk about in this movie because it, more than most movies, explore wars, gender identity, sexuality, societal expectations, heteronormativity, Like there's a lot going on here. Yeah, it's also real stylistic like it has. It really does have its own look and feel, And if you want to have fun, you should go back and read movie reviews of this movie, done mostly by straight people, largely summed up by like, I don't get it. I don't why they made a lot of choices. I didn't understand that it could have been more gay. It was a popular one, and Roger Ebert in his review is literally like someone told me that these camps actually exist. That's crazy. I was just like, thanks, Rob. He's like, it doesn't make sense because at the end of the day, you always choose what you want to do, And I was like, Roger, he also hated Josie in The Pussycat, so fuck him. But he Rogerie, I feel like, we mean it makes sense because he is the movie critic or whatever. But for the most part, I feel like whenever we're addressing his reviews on this podcast, it's because he has a bad take. I'm just like, oh, you hate this movie that ten years on literally everyone loves. Maybe he's maybe he died from embarrassment. We can perhaps the most scathing take ever on this podcast, Roger Yevert died of badcasts of bad takes. I'm pretty sure it's cancer big criticism, And again most of the criticism is coming from straight mail movie critics. But a lot of this, like the satire is heavy handed. It's like what else would it be, Like you're trying to fit these kids into this like very strict gender identity. They've pushed it not even that much to the extreme, because like when you think about it, like true headed ordativity is pretty extreme, and so like get this very like polarized idea that they're trying to inflict on it. It's like it's always going to be heavy handed, like because that's what they're ultimately trying to achieve, is this perfect, unachievable, absurd ideal quotes of gender roles. And so it was such a weird criticism here. Yeah, I mean the movie is a clear satire, but I feel like a lot of like people are like, what's happening? Why is it so pink? And like I love the scenes where Mary is teaching the girls how to like vacuum the carpet and paint each other's nails, and and then like Rue Paul is teaching the men how to chop wood and fix a car. And it's like, I like how war is part of the mail. It's so funny, like but it's like from a satirical that's so funny. Also, the post, like the Charlie's Angels post they make right before they like charge the hill with like fake guns. It's just like this is, yeah, this could be like overtly explores what is considered very stereotypical gender roles that most movies don't bother looking at or examining or anything like that, and it's just so funny like when you do look at it from such a satirical point of view, where it's like, yeah, we teach boys that they should know how to fix cars and play football and chop a piece of wood and shoot a gun, and we teach girls that their main job is to maintain a household and clean and wash a dish. Like the like those these are so funny and if you don't realize how absurd the gender roles that we are inflicting on people even today, how they're so silly and outdated and crazy, Like of course you're not going to recognize that is satire, and of course you're gonna be like, oh, this is this movie. Yeah, yeah, I don't get it. I know it doesn't make sense, but and like the satire of like the scene they're all with the family and they're looking for what Megan's root is and Kathy Marie already just goes out on a limb to the point where the parents are I'm like, oh, of course you only care about it when you're sort of being insulted, Like your daughter can be insulted and you can send her away to be dislike completely flips their own gender norms on them, right, Like you're the reason. It's like, wait that right, They're like, it was only nine months because Becau, I saw my mom working and my dad wasn't working, and that's what probably made me gay. And it's just like that, it's a it's a funny sick burn. So Jenny, I'm curious because I think this is the first movie we've done on the podcast that features a predominantly queer cast of characters. If I'm not mistaken, it's a very good debut. That's a good movie to open with. So I'm curious. I can only speak to so much as a unfortunately hetero person. Um, So I'm curious. I'm so sorry, And all her press clippings, Calin is referred to as the tragically hetero. So I'm curious, Jenny, how do you feel the like representation of lesbian characters is in queerness in general, is in this movie. I personally really enjoyed it because at its heart was a comedy. Again, I grew up pretty sheltered, pretty like not realized that I was gay, didn't have many clues to go on in my mind, but like what I was exposed to was just TV and film, most of which very depressing. Like, if you're just trying to like figure out what gayness is through movie and TV, it's pretty bleak. It's like, even when sometimes there's a gay and lesbian directors or writers, it'll be about you know, history or bullying or something, all very important subjects, but terrifying if you're just in the middle of nowhere being like that doesn't look like any fun So I won't go further with this. Don't like no levity in the way queer characters are. Yeah, yeah, so I like to start it with chaotic and funny. I responded to that at the time more than the fact that it's like, oh, there's good representation, because I didn't know. I didn't even know the deficit that I was experiencing of like gay figures in media. I think that's a problem for a lot of like people who belong to marginalized group like because representation is so bad for anyone who's not a straight, cis, white, able bodied man in media historically throughout all the years, like I grew up loving so many movies that treated women so horribly because that's really all there was. And we're seeing a positive trend of and it's not anywhere close to being perfect or even good yet, but um a trend toward better representation, more inclusion, where people who historically have really never seen themselves represented on screen or finally seeing more and better representations of themselves free. I mean, and again this is I'm in a similar predicament, is you, Caitlin? Where I am the terminally hetero Jamie Lofton, but the upsettingly straight Jamie Loftons. Like this seems to me like a very kind of like open and close case of just like, yeah, you can make a really effective satire about queerness if you give the reins to a queer director and writer who knows what she's talking about, and then it's like punching down to the right people. And I mean, the same thing is happening in like Black Panther or like Wonder Woman, where it's just like, oh, it can be like this, Like we all know repectel Gast listeners know like representation is lacking, but when you finally see a movie where that comes together, you're just like, oh man, it's it's exciting. Yeah, and there is like there it's this movie is like ultimately a sat tire, but it's like well done because it's written by someone who has perspective. I read an interview that Jamie Babott did around this time and she was like, yeah, I was aware of these camps and like had heard all this stuff, and then I wasn't aware of the extent of the practices at the camp where when you see it in a satire. You're like, there's no way there was electric shock. There absolutely was electric shock. This was a pretty benign representation. And it's still like yikes, yeah, yeah, and I don't know what I mean, and like that's so not cool that it happened, but cool that it's represented in this very creative, interesting, stylized way. And I also wanted to So this movie was directed by Jamie Babbitt, written though by Brian So She also had a story by credit, but the screenwriter was Brian Peterson, who I tried to do some more research on. I couldn't find a whole ton about him, so I don't know if he commune somewhere right, So I was like, Okay, is he gay or he is he? Oh? He is? He is gay. I would be very surprised if the person who wrote this movie was not gay. He is from when I'm saying he's gay himself and had some experience of conversion therapy while working at a prison clinic for sex offenders. Holy shit. Variety named him one of ten screenwriters to watch another thing about him. I probably I can't wait to be on that list as well for having anyway break that screenwriter. So heys out of the closet. He is a core screenwriter as well, but this did seem to be thoroughly Jamie Babbitt's story that she was also direct. Definitely. Yeah. I think it's also helpful that there's more stable gay characters, Like for the men and women, there's like a spectrum of like femine butch men and women. Like if there's just one gay character in a movie, that gay character has to represent all of LGBT queer people and that's impractical. So I think it was helpful that there were just a zillion different types of you know, even just people in the closet and not in the closet. Yeah, I think that the representation could be better considering that all of the women in the camp, maybe all but one, were white. I think Jan was a person of color. Jan is terminally ambiguous, like in every aspect of her life, and God bless her. I believe that. Yeah. Yeah, well that's like an amazing satirical move for people who don't get it, we're watching this movie of like here's a very painful outing as someone as straight. You know, it's like that's so funny and absurd. But also for I like imagine my dad who is progressive but doesn't totally get it and seeing something like that and being like, oh, okay, you know, like that is like sort of like for people who want to understand but don't quite get. I meant, can funk with straight people too, Like I mean, if I'm sure both of you have been accused of not being you know, oh, I've been determinally I've been assumed to be or asked if I was a lesbian on so many occasions in my life. I'm just like, I'm not, but I you're blessed moment. In fact, my mom, so there was a large span of time that has gone on even longer by now. But when I was in college that side time works, but I'm saying it never changed. So and when I was in college, my mom a few different times asked me if I was a lesbian because I never had a boyfriend, which is a very heteronormative assumption to make. It's like, oh, well, if you don't have a boyfriend, it must be because you're gay, And it's like no, because I'm emotionally damaged and don't understand emotional intimacy. Mom. But yeah, so my mom's like, you know, it would be okay if you were and I was to love you and you can come out to me and all this stuff. And I'm just like, I know that to be true, and if I was gay, I would definitely tell you. I'm simply not. I'm simply just a damaged person who does not know how to connect with people emotionally. Well, that's very much queer culture. So I'm basically my dad my yeah, my parent. This is not gonna make my dad looks very good. I was in the g s A all of high school, the Gay Straight Alliance, and I identified as S. But if you're in the g s A in like an urban high school, most people just are like g It's like but also what if my dad would be like, yeah, it is the Gay Straight Alne really ignores a lot of people in the queer community. But anyway, this was a long time ago now, but I mean I was. It was the only like that, and you know all the other clubs I was in also, like Drama Club in bad Also, I thought you were going to be like Amis International, which is obviously dipping your toe into going to the Gay Straightler there I was. I was in the g s A all through high school and my dad, you know, my parents were always like very supportive of whatever I wanted to do. But my dad would just be like, it's Jamie's gay Monday because he had picked me up from the g s A thing, Jamie's gay Monday Monday, and so every Monday he'd be like, how is game Monday, Jamie. I was like, it was good. We had productive discussion. It's like my gay little Jamie and I was like, okay, fine, you know, and I didn't fully get g s A um, but it was fun. I don't know recommend it's any such a weird relationship. Also, Massa Chusetts was the first state to legalize gay marriage, but also such a fucking weird state on every level. I mean, we've all that's where we all met, and what a strange place where you can't Like, my dad was fully accepting of me. This is peak New England, fully accepting of me participating in the g s A. Did have to call me get Jamie h gay Jamie's gay Mondays, which is down like like if it is the weird? Yeah, well, I so I grew up in a as you know, a very small rural Pennsylvania town where any sort of thing that wasn't had her own normative was thought to be very evil and gross and horrible. Like, it was a very conservative area, and to my knowledge, there were no out gay people in my high school. There were certainly gay people, but none of them felt comfortable with being out. But when I got to college, I soon met someone who to become my best friends the cast Twilight episode. He would go to gay parties all the time and bring me with him. I was like, this is such a cool culture, and straight culture is still fucking boring, and to the extent where I was like all of the screenplays I was writing in film school. Again, I did go to college and then grad school to get a master's screen screen running from Boston University. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever mentioned that before. M Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, all the screenplays I was writing were about gay characters, which like, as a straight person, problematic, But I don't know, I was just like, I was so fascinated by the culture and really just wanted everyone to know that I was an ally. It's all I mean, I don't know, it's it's so weird because it's like that this is like the fairly recent past. But I feel like discourse and you have shifted so rapidly now that it's like I mean, I think about my attitudes towards gay culture and like how yeah, like hyped, I was on it in like high school and like that probably was not but also at that time, I don't know. It's a tricky, tricky area to Yeah, I mean, it takes a little while to figure out how to talk about things, especially if you haven't done it in the past. So I mean, I think people give themselves a little too much slack for not getting it right out the gate. But like, gay culture is awesome. Everyone should have queer friends. If you don't, you're missing out. And gay parties are better than real parties. Yeah, smell way better. Straight parties smell like straight up. I don't know one of the things I wanted to talk about. So this podcast is called the Becto Cast. You probably didn't know that. Again, Jamie, I'm I'm here to I need to like get some self esteem. Like it's so stupid things I need. The puppy has explained to me every single time we'd do it. Oh, anything work. But there are a number of other cinematic tests that you can apply to media, aside from the backto tests that examine representation of other things. And one of the things that I think has come up every once in a while, but I would like to explore it more and it is certainly relevant for this movie is the Vito Russo test, which was named after Vito Russo, a celebrated film historian and the co founder of GLAD and wrote a book The Celluloid Closet, which remains a foundational analysis of LGBTQ portrayals of Hollywood film. A movie passes the Vito Russo test if it contains a character that is identifiably lgbt Q, that character is not solely or predominantly defined by their sexual orientation or gender identity, and the character must be tied to the plot in such a way that their removal would have a significant impact on the story. Yeah, most movies don't even come anywhere close to passing the Veto test. Certainly this movie on we've done on the podcast. I don't think you asked this question on Twitter and I was just firing off like replies, and then I realized that all the movies that I was saying they were just subtext gays, where I was just like a lot of them were Michelle Rodriguez movies. But uh so I wasn't completely wrong, but I didn't realize until literally that I had like an existential meltdown where it was like all those movies were just like they were just coded gay, and so I just counted it so right because a lot of movies will We talked about this, for example on the episode about the Rock, where there is that stylist character who is coded as gay doesn't necessarily identify himself as being gay. Well, and then we get into a lot of trope villain characters, so we are obviously removing Jaffar. Sorry that I always go straight to Jaffar, but I do have a crush on him, and it's never going to happen. She's a gay icon, right, He's a gay icon and also a cartoon who is not real. So it's just never going to happen with me in Jaffar. H But but like, obviously you removed Jaffar, the plot is impacted, but there, but it's yeah, totally codd right, We're right, yeah, and I mean and vilified exactly like yeah, the villains across the border often coded right, Yeah, Disney has a horrid history of this. And then yeah, I know, but it's like, but then the characters are so dope. The last time I went to Disneyland, I didn't know that. It was like it was a gay day at Zealand where there was like a massive meet up of LGBT people at Disneyland, and it was like suddenly away better day that I was originally going to have. It was like everyone's like, it was just so exciting, the energy was it selected, especially once it got to be nighttime and people can start drinking. I was like, this is the greatest Disneyland experience of all time. So great. Yeah. So I wanted to talk about this movie, but I'm a cheerleader in relation to the Vito Russo test, because let's explore this, because the movie definitely has characters who are identifiably l g B t Q. The caveat of the Vito Russo tests that says that a character is not solely or predominantly defined by their sexual orientation or gender identity, I think is where we'll get into a little bit of gray area. Because the whole movie is about whether or not, like these characters being gay and having to because of this camp they're in try to deny themselves of their sexual orientation. So it's it's the whole story is really tied in their and their characters are really tied into the fact that they are gay. So I don't know, do you have a I feel like like Mary and the camp are way more obsessed with their gayness and gender identity than the actual characters. Like when you get down to it, you remember, Graham is more like standoffish and like snobbish, and you know, Megan is just like, you know, this wholesome, like they all have personalities outside of and like even Megan's outing, like her intervention, like it was absurd, Like they were just like you have this poster in your room. It's like, well, that doesn't mean anything. And so I don't know. I think they're gayness definitely comes into it, but I don't think they're just solely defined by Yeah, like you can say other things about these characters totally. Yeah, And by the end of the movie, because I was wondering that a little bit too, but them by the end of the movie, I feel like there's that line that like, there's not just one way to be a lesbian. You have to continue to be who you are. Where that point is made pretty explicitly of just like there's not one way, you just continue to be yourself. The character is saying that as he's handing her mom that just as queer. It was like, is this commentary or just a rogue props? Masters like, there's a there's many ways to be a queer person. Now drink from this mug that Yeah, I don't know. I mean, every character in this movie, I feel like has a discernible personality one way or another. And also Cathy Moriarity's character is gay, are we That was my I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I To me, I was struggling. I was like, is this just a cathe moriarity vibe I'm getting? Is this is this her having like internalized homophobia? To me, it read as her son Rock presents as gay and she basically started this whole camp to be like I have to convert my son into being a HEATERO, and hey, if I can do it with my son, I can do it with anyone. So like, I feel like this whole thing is built around the fact that she doesn't like that she has a gay son, and that's why. Yeah, she's addict and she's not great at being a woman like she does. She has to have plastic flowers, so she's not actually tending to anything, and everything is plastic over it. She can't keep anything clean at very least. She is like intense internalized misogyny because she's just like rubbed the floors. Yeah the boy. Now, I was reading brag the Wikipedia page about this movie, and I don't know if this was the I can't remember this was exactly the intent of the filmmakers or if it was just something that people are like, hey, this her Basically, her character can be seen as the sort of panic surrounding the AIDS crisis, and because she's so obsessed with cleanliness and all of that stuff, where she's sort of symbolizes like the panic around AIDS. And for sure, they don't sleep on that. Like when they're protesting, it's like eight skills baggets there. They're when they're folding napkins at the gay men's home, there's like AIDS ribbon on the napkin, Like yeah, no, you're totally right. I wanted to touch a little bit more on the representation of um. Also on the Wikipedia page about this movie, Jamie Babbitt was saying how she like deliberately cast a lot of the roles, and it seems to be this is especially true for the men who were at true directions, not necessarily as much for the women. But she did put a conscious effort in casting people of color in the different roles, because the characters of Mike, Dolph, and Andre are all people of color. But um, I feel like, I don't know, it just it struck me as a little weird that the like the love story between Megan and Graham, it's still very white, and I feel like I think that if this movie was made today, we would see a little bit more representation of people of color. Yeah, Like, I think she definitely did try and go out of her way to cast people of color, I think back then. So there's probably some people it's like this is too much, but yeah, I know, like, oh, actually, on that note, um it says that bad Bit did briefly consider Rosario Dawson for the role as of Megan, but the executive producer persuaded her the Dawson, who is Latina, would not be right for the quote unquote all American cheerleader Rosario Dawson is now on Jane the Virgin in a lesbian relations she is it's really good, Like I love Jane the vision of my favorite TV show and so underrated. I love it so much. Is not everyone in the entire I've seen all of Jane the Vergon. Rosario Dawson is also just killing it in that role. Just a footnote that she couldn't have known. Tara Dawson plays a great lesbian true ally. I also wanted to ask Jenny Um about how how you feel about straight actors playing gay characters on screen. I do not have a problem with it, you know, I don't think it's uh again, gay isn't like a personality. I think it is a little different for transactors, but I think across the board, like this wouldn't be an issue if they were any part of LGBT were just cast regularly and not just like across the board like passed over for gay or not gay straight roller like, but like they are being shut out, and I think that's it's just part of It's like what we can't even play gay characters like it's it's more that rather than like gay people are the only people who can play gay characters, which I just it's not true. Like, um, I have a little SoundBite from Natasha Leon more recent because she's played several queer characters, but it is straight, but it identifies as straight. But then also tags that by saying, mind you, when I say I'm not gay, it doesn't mean that I've never tried sleeping with women. Of course I have. I'm not a dumb, dumb fun time but she but there's also uh, she she talks about like they're like, you're kind of like a queer icon, but you don't identify as queer, and then she responded. This is a New York Times interview from a year and a half ago. She said, I never want to feel like I'm taking ownership of an experience that's not my own. But it seems like a lot of the female experiences in response to men, and when I play a lesbian character, it means that she's on her own ride. I love men, I want to sleep with as many as possible, but I don't want my whole life and certainly my creative experience, to be in response to just being the girl like who needs it, and then she says she sleeps with him because she's not a dumb dumb So yeah, I I always I wonder. Part of me thinks that it always kind of felt a little weird or wrong when straight actors would play gay characters, because there runs a big risk of them misrepresenting. Sure, and some people have said some really dumb stuff after playing a gay character, like but and like, I would also like to have some LGBT slash queer actors that I can be like hell yeah and root for them, because right now a lot of queer icons are straight, and that is frustrating. I don't think the answer is I don't know. I hope that we can get to a point where gay actors can just be cast in any role, not like they they're seeing. Some of that was briefly a straight icon, toxic, toxic masculinity icon, interesting subversion, so straight that for a while I was just like enough enough that it's like you're hurting people. Rolled back, there be a book about how to use women Neil Patrick's picture on which there was, Oh, but like, Jenelle Manee is out there doing some awesome stuff in terms of everyone of her new songs. I'm just like, oh what a gift, and gift hasn't like Lady Gaga said, like, I only write songs for gay people. Sure that makes sense. Um. I hope to one day be a queer icon as a hope tragically strangers where I still want to be a queer tragic where tragically heteroical where icon. I recently lost my job, so in order to grieve, I went to Vegas this weekend for lesbian sci fi convention Clexicon. It was just a bunch of lesbians running a buck in Vegas and a bunch of shows that have had lesbian pairings and romances and characters were all represented there. There's second con and it was huge, so it's been a huge success. And all the actresses were actors. Sorry, I guess that's reductive as well. All the actors, all women who were there were just like treated like royalty because they just represented these people and people are thirsty for just seeing something up there. But it was a pretty cool place to be. I just you know, throw that out there, good good Vegas weekend. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was pretty cool, very gay, very gay weekend. It was clear Duval and Natasha ly and also played a couple on screen in a movie, Clear Duval, who does identify as queer. They played a couple on screen in a movie. Clear d All wrote like last year, Yes, what's it called The Intervention? Yes? Yes, yes, I reading and I want to see it. Yeah. Same, So back to but I'm a Cheerleader? Oh yeah this movie. Sorry so for but I'm a Cheerleader. It was initially rated by the m p a a As and the director made cuts to allow it to be re rated. Are But the reason that it was rated NC seventeen was a couple of things, like it had nothing even really graphic or anything like that. It was just like a mention of a woman going down on another woman. This movie is hell of vanilla when you actually the only sex scene is it's like kind of boringly tasteful. There's not that much happening, and yeah, it's it's sometimes can't even tell what body Park is being like, yeah, they're like, oh, there's just a lot of skin and right, so it's a PG thirteen sex scene totally. But because of society and how we hold gay things to a different standard, m p a A was like, because it's two women in a homosexual sex scene. It's so obscene and so graphic that we have to give it in an NC seventeen riting. I suspect it's a double whammy where it's gay and female pleasure. Yeah. Uh. She masturbates halfway through, right, she does over the clothes, but still she's obviously Natasha Leon's masturbation facial expressions. I'm just like, have you masturbated before? Most people don't turn into cartoon characters. She also has like eyes that are like one third of her face. She is very but her eyes were like she would like poke at her own vagina and then her eyes would roll back into her head. I'm like, this is an interesting She's also like vaguely praying. I think as she's okay, this is a terrible realization to have. Oh, I'm very hard in the game. So that was one of the scenes in the movie that didn't quite I don't know if it did track for me or I just like found it odd where she had just had a sex dream where she was kissing Clara to Ball's character. She goes into the room a different room and starts masturbating, but then sees two men kissing and then says gross, and then she basically rats them out. So she wrats out her fellow, she's a snitch, and then no one gives her any shit about it. They're just like mom, Like, I felt like there should be some aftermath a little shit about it. But I think it's part of the thing where it's like all of them are so scared, all of them are trying to be Yeah, I mean, it didn't take much to push her over the edge and be like, oh that is someone else. It's where it's like you're experiencing the same things, but it's way easier to villainize someone else. Granted, yeah, the two guys who she catches do say shut the funk up a little bit. I thought that was hilarious. Like, I, no, I know that I shouldn't have left, but that's one of my It's like Rufio is furious that, but yeah, I don't know. I feel like there was an opportunity for maybe some more tension, for the other characters to be like, hey, we're like, you know, we're all confused and like, how could you rat out your fellow? I mean, I think to a certain extent, they're partially brainwashed a little too, because I mean they grew up in the same like, this isn't what Mary's telling them isn't so insanely foreign to them, Like they've been hearing it all their lives. So I think that even when they're just like, well this is kind of who I am, there's like a grain of like, well this is bad as well, you know, I don't know. Um, back to the So the movie was rated initially NC seventeen, and um, it's now barely in our like there's aside from a few times where characters say like fuck, Like, I feel like it could get away with a PG thirteen rating. I think so a few a few funks edited out, and this is easily a PG. Theretem Yeah, what was Blackerd's rated? Oh, I it has to be are I think, Yeah, I don't know for sure, but characters they funk a lot, And I think I don't know. It was just the movie that I could think of most recently that would be analogous to a teen ROMP. Yeah, I don't it is okay. The documentary, Um, this film is not yet right. It explores the sort of double standard. I think she talks about the actual scenes she had to cut, I think so, and then that documentary also it'll put up like side by side sex scenes where gay sex is being shown, and then right next to that a sex scene where it's heterosex and they can be virtually identical except for the fact that one of them is gay and one of them is not. And the movies with the gay sex scene almost always get the n C seventeen rating, whereas the movies with the hetero sex scene, even if they're not any less graphic or show, you know, like it's not as others like Dick's flying everywhere, like hard to write, Like the the board, it's pretty vanilla, and it's okay sex to the point where you can just go just the tiniest notch above and I'm like, oh, are we going, Like I'll just like be running around the room, just like I can't believe that she gets into a panic. I mean, it just shows that the like gay sexuality is held to a different standard by society and it's seen as more graphic and obscene. And well, I also think that doing it right, it might be that's also all sex. I don't know, And it is such a it's frustrating to hear stuff like that, because it does come down to such an issue of access, where this is a movie that was successful. It had only had a one million dollar budget and ended up making two point six million. But this is like the sort of movie where that if there was access given, if this did have a PG thirteen rating, which it easily could have, and was widely released, there could be so many more young people who could have seen a competent text and had access to it. This movie was super important to me, and I wouldn't have seen it. My friend wasn't like this. Yeah, it was only released in something like a hundred and fifteen theaters across the country. It had such a small theatrical release. Who knows what like movie distributors are thinking. I don't know the intricacies of that aspect of exhibition risk. Like I think at the end of the day, all movie released, they don't want to take a risk, whether it be people, fella, gay people, women, all that stuff. If this movie came out now, I feel like it would have gotten a way wider release. And and I mean because like I'm gonna keep harping about love Simon, but I literally have the Wikipedia rating. But that's what Simon rated. It's Oh good question. I don't know, but I know that it It has a seventeen million budget and has so far netted forty five. Like it's like movies, It's good. It's love. Simon is PG thirteen years Kid. So one of the last things I wanted to say about this movie is, so when I was rewatching this and hadn't seen it in a while and didn't totally remember all of the details about it, the first probably three or so minutes that you see of this movie, like the opening sequence of like the credits and everything like that, is just like again disembodied female parts. A lot of shots of boobs, a lot of shots of cheerleaders doing splits, You see their cratches, you see their butts, you see their like abs, like all these like very sexualized images of like the female form. And then you're like, oh, wow, this is like some male gaze ship But then you realize it's not coming from the male gaze per se. It's coming from how Megan is viewing these characters. So it's really coming from a lesbian female gaze, which who's probably trying desperately not to think of such things, which probably does not help. And I have complicated feelings about this where I'm like, Okay, well, that's cool that you you're seeing this imagery from a different perspective and from a different gaze, but it's also like, should we really be objectifying women's bodies? I don't know. I for for me, that was subverted enough so that it worked. And that's true of almost every stereotype present in this movie, where there's and and correct me if there's anything, but like most of the stereotypes in terms of how the movie is framed in terms of the characterismself, almost every stereotype presented is commented upon in some way to the point where it's challenged or re contextualized. For me, that that those shots were recontextualized in such a way that it was like, it's weird because it's like, oh now we're getting into like some some filmmajor tripe of you know, visually static image. It's the same way you could have a male looking at cheerleaders, but the context is so different. I feel like goes hand in hand with like objectifying and not caring about women, Like her boy friend is like, you don't even like to kiss me. He knows that, and he's still kissing her, and like you see her she's attracted to female bodies, yes, but she's also like super supportive of her friends and like you know, even at the camp, like Graham has been kind of shitty to her, She's just like, hey, do you need a hand, and she's she's so I think that, yeah, she's might be viewing women sexually and just kind of like that might be detached. But I also think it goes back to the thing like she's probably trying not to think of like you know that, so it's probably amplified a little in terms of like she's also a teenage exactly now that anything about it. I want to watch the trailer for this movie because I bet it's kind of I would guess it's bad. The line used to market this movie it was but I'm a cheerleader, a comedy of social disorientation, which could mean so much. It's like, just tell us what the movie is about. As a pre nine eleven world, we didn't know that market things social disorientation right this year this movie came out nine I think if I mean, we say this a lot on the podcast, but like if this movie was rewritten and remade today it would be so different. So but for the time, this movie is very progressive considering, I would agree. Yeah, I think it's like nine to five where it's like you could tell it was made in the past, but the points are still pretty salient. Yeah, I mean there was nothing in particular with it stood out to this movie of like, yikes, that does not age very well, right, I mean I think that, yeah, the points that maybe be hit home harder in a different way than they were then. Now maybe there would be like more do you don't have anything that stuck out to you as like not not really, I think the only the only real thing is it was very noticeable that almost all of the women who were at true directions were white women and the um. That's not to say that the movie is completely devoid of people of color, because it's not. But I think you know that that was a choice that was made and in it's pretty glaring today. Um Rosaria Dawson casting comments speaks a lot to the time this movie was. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think also if it was made today, some updates might be that, like it would be more inclusive of like trans people or non binary people. Or by people just like any one else on the queer spectrum, trying to think you had cast if it were today, I think we'll feel like Gina Rodriguez would be a strong contender for one of these. Did you see her Annihilation? No? I haven't seen Annihilation at so much. It's really overwhelming. That movie is very pro has I'm in. I want to give my dollars to people who like Gina Rodriguez only she's so great. Does anyone have any final thoughts about the movie? I wanted to shout out make Stole, who plays Megan's mom, who's in every John uh Not John Hughes, Oh my god, Oh my god, John waters John Watersman, sorry for just having a peg. There's the French person who tries to dance with Megan. Yes, I like that are most hateful and most hateful way to take advantage of just how Michelle was resting face looks. They're like, we're gonna make her do something really mean. She has a mean resting face, which I respond to very powerful. Yes, your disdain is like food. I wish that there were more gay or queer comedies. I think there's a huge fucking deficit that there's a lot of I mean, it's very important to remember your history and remember and to you know, shine a light on issues faced in the gay, lesbian, trans, bisexual queer community. But oh man, comedy would not go amiss. Yes, and there's like a huge market for it. Yeah. I know we have conflicting thoughts on Scott Thompson, but he was the first gay person I saw on TV. And he was also the first gay person who fucking loved being gay and was just like, I'm so happy I'm gay. My life is better because I'm gay. And uh, definitely I haven't seen much of that since, like even today, Like it's just like not in the mainstream certainly. Oh man, it's pretty kick ass being gay something, which I mean, this has become a pretty cult movie and it's pretty recognizable to I mean, a lot of people have at least heard of this movie. Maybe not I host, but I think a lot of people know about this movie. Give a guys. Yeah, I don't know. I wish i'd seen this movie sooner. Yeah, it's kind of one of the few movies about like queer culture that has kind of crossed over into the mainstream. I have seen a few game movies that um, I know rag that most people have not heard of at all. Uh, and that our only popular community movies. Or it's just like it's weird, like because straight people do often their takeaway from gay movies is just like it's like, oh, you didn't get what you were watching. You should. You don't even realize how. Just by the way, the other three the only three lesbian comedies in existence. But I'm a cheer litter. Debs and possibly Imagine Me and You, Oh Debs, I haven't seen Deb's or Imagine Me and you. Um, Debs gets recommended to us to do on the podcast all the time. You guys, we got to do an episode. Oh god, guys, it's pretty amazing. Yeah again, very campy, very campy sounds great, um, which I'm not saying is a deterrent, but it's a quality film. Give it a describes a end of list. It's not even my favorite comedy, it's just the ones. Those are the comedy lesbian comedies that exist. I would love to be proven wrong. Tweet me, well, it's now is the time. Any lesbian writers out there who want to write more lesbian comedies please do it right right the stuff. Do it right now. We're millionaires, will give you our millions. My favorite gay thing in existence is gay mail web series called The Wonders Life Game Wondrous Life of Kale Galo Gayo Gallo Gallo. It's on YouTube. It might be the best thing in existence. It is gay case. It's so good, it's so funny. Freckle is a main character. Who is Freckle is the what the Wondrous gay and Wondrous life of Caleb Gallo. Oh, Jimmie, I really think you would. Spectral cast listeners, please watch this web series if you haven't already so excited. It's so good. Described as Will and Grace on Speed just does I feel like Will and Grace is reductive in this sense? It is so much more, so much more. Oh, I'm so excited. I don't know. It's great. Yeah, this movie was probably instrumental in me eventually coming out. That's great. And then again, we talked about this a lot on the podcast. But like movies and media are so influential, especially to young people or just people who find themselves not represented on screen, where if they do see a glimpse of someone like them, it's really powerful. Yeah, I'm glad it's for people who are too stupid to know that. When I was a kid, I watched Pizze Dragon on repeat because I had a huge honking crush on Helen Ready, who was a lighthousekeeper, and I thought I just wanted to do chores in a lighthouse. That was my sexual orientation for a long time. Try and explaining trans is so much easier parents than being like mom, tad I'm in love with lighthouses. So yeah, I will shout out to queer dummies. I only had crushes on cartoon characters, you know, up until as recently as today. The Dragon from Pizza Dragon for Anastasia. For me, Anastasia was anaesthesia. Technically Dmitri is Anastasia, but like genderal lift, it's like like Dmitri hot. I don't know. I just wanted to say I said gay a bunch of times, but I think if I still use gay as like queer and like an all encompassing LGBT thing, which some people find exclusionary. But yeah, that sure, yeah listeners out there, Um yeah, the language. I feel like people are still trying to figure out exactly what language to use in a lot of situations because like some people find queer offensive, like within the LGBT community, but I think it's I prefer it. I think we on the podcast kind of use it as an umbrella term to describe anyone who's sexual orientation and or gender identity does not fall within Sorry, I know you're trying to wrap up, and I'm like, let's unpack all the language we just used. So we're always trying to do better. And if you, perhaps one of our listeners know of the term we may not know of we're addicted to information, let us not. We we we're hoping that our language, the queer community loves to share. Yes, we want, we want our language and our perspectives on things to be inclusive. If we're making any missteps, please let us know so that we can correct ourselves in the future. That being said, whether or not this movie passes the BACTO test, h it does, crazy but so yeah, I'll talk to it time. Also a movie I haven't still seen. Yes women talking to Yes. Um. Yeah. So Megan and Graham talk a bunch. Megan and Mary talk about all there's tons of female characters and they all talk to each other and sometimes they are mentioning a man, but for the most part, the conversations are more about sexual orientation and it's a non issue in this movie. Totally, yeah, no question about it. It passes it. Also, like we concluded earlier, it passes the Vito Russo test, which I'd have to really go back and look at the list of all the movies we've covered on the podcast so far, but I feel like it's maybe the first movie to pass the Veto Russo tests that we've done so far. Let's rate the movie on our nipple scale. Let's do it so I would give it four point five. I'm going to take a half nipple off for the fact that it could have been a little bit more intersectional, representing not just gay and lesbian characters, but also other people on the sexuality and gender identity spectrum as well. Is um could have been better representation of women of color. Aside from that, though, I it's such a fun movie. It is great that this movie exists, that it's a funny, lighthearted but also providing a lot of commentary on important issues like heteronormativity in gender roles and all that stuff. So it's it's getting a lot done while also being extremely entertaining. Yeah, it's just a great fun romp that I really enjoy, don't so yes, four and half nipples. I'll give one to Megan, one to Graham, one to jan one too. We didn't talk about this character really, but Hillary from New Zealand Melanieland Australian or New Zealand New Zealand. Oh God, I love meld She's God bring her back chair. Also, her accent serves her so well. When you first made her, it's like lunch it'll leave. Gay people who like rules, by the way, are the most hysterical tragic to me. Ever, she was like pointing at that chart, and I mean they she loves the chat, the chat steep and then my half nipple will go to let's say, Michelle Williams, just because I forgot she was Yeah, cool, I gonna give it, uh fo uh. Sort Of based on the same reasons you described, I think across the board at this very well lacks intersectionality that I would wager was not present literally anywhere at the time, so there wasn't really a road map for it. Um. But there are some piky areas where for a reasons we've already discussed it could do a little bit better, but in terms of almost everything, it's like, you know, just having a movie made by a queer artist. I just wish that more people had been able to see it at the time and feel like the world would have been a little bit better if that were the case. Uh So, I'm gonna give four nippies. I'm gonna give two of the nippies to Megan we Have. I'm going to give my other ones to Melanie Lynskey because I just love her so much. She's so good in Heavenly Creatures. She's so good in everything. I really do love her. God bring back Melanie Lynskey. Now. I think you guys are spot on for the inner sectionality thing. I really do, especially since it is for her first movie and she was still trying to be like I would still like to make it as intersectional as possible. There's definitely more she could have done. I think she tried. But at the same time, like, the gay community is in a unique spot where they can be like, this is what we want to be about, and there is like a racism problem because racist on a systemic but but like you, I think the gay community is in a unique position to be like, hey, we want to be about inclusivity and intersectionality. But I'm still going to give this movie all the nips five It's my It's one of my favorite movies. I'm sorry, thousand percent agree with you on the intersectionality thing. I'll give it to Clear Duval, who is my route, and just hero one to Jan who I think is one of the most important characters in the film. Totally gets overlooked. I think. I think even when I first watched it, I thought she was a little bit more of a punchline then she deserved to be Like I thought it was hilarious, like who does she think she's getting? But now I watch it and I'm like, no, she is the best of us all. She is the most important character. I don't even know how she would fall now, Like I don't know if she really was straight or she was, you know, to do it and maybe, but I think it's it's cool. She's like, you're you know, you're not even putting me in the right box now, Like I think she was just kind of cool and very fluid in whatever she decided to be. I will give one to that vaginal pillow, which was incredible. Let me just throw a nip on the just throw a nip on it. Yeah, there RuPaul the soundtrack. At one point Rock is dancing to a RuPaul song and I think I have one where left one to Mary's very deep voice, which I loved beautiful. When she comes in at night with like a flashlight, She's like, Megan, you got a phone call? I was just like, Oh, that's my sexual orientation. It's an older woman shining a flashlight, get a phone. And when she's on the phone, she's just in her bed, in her silk sheets, tuning an acoustic talks. So weird. Why Yeah, she's very never explained in this movie. Are the most important to me. Kathy Mariarty is so intentionally in the background of that entire scene the whole time, and it's so unclear. One great movie. Yes, um, well, Jenny, thank you so much for being where people. Thank you. So do you guys call your fans? That is what we call reason? Yeah we could have done better, but yeah, no one was like what if. We're like yeah, so I just like to tack head onto anything. Well, thanks for being a fan, thanks for being here today, and thanks for predating us this movie and is there anything you would like to plug? And also where can people follow you online? I am a comedian. You can find me. My name is my Twitter and Facebook and everything else. It's Jenny Chilikian. Sorry that name does not roll off the tongue. It is H A L I K I A N and Uh. I have a really cool show that I do with Aaron Judge every third Thursday in Culver City called Romantic Comedy. Such a great show. We usually have an incredible lineup. Both of you have been on it and Uh. In May we're having Nel Scovell as one of our guests, and we just have a really cool It's usually mostly women and it takes place in a bookstore, the Ripped Bodusty, which is just they sell exclusively romance and erotica and also just feminist texts about all sorts. But it's a really cool bookstore. Everyone who goes through there's just it's it's a cool place to hang out. Yeah. So yeah, if you live in l A, check out Jenny Show. You can check us out on social media as well at bectol cast on Twitter and Instagram. Subscribe to our Patreon for Crying Out Loud. It's five dollars a month and you get access to to bonus episodes every single month. Wow, I know. Incredible. Also, it really hard for this podcast put a lot of materials we do, so give us your freaking money about it. We love content by our merch. We have really cute stickers, we've got really cute buttons, and it's very aggressive also by our merch. Merch. It was like, well I'm going to yeah, it's just Mary's voice. Well, there you have it, our discussion of but I'm a cheerleader. Jenny, thanks again for being here and everyone, just have a really special day. Okay. Bye,