Episode 81 - The History of The Mothman

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<v Speaker 1>[inaudible]

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<v Speaker 2>Hello and welcome to another episode of the lunatics radio hour podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Abby Brinker.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm here with Alan cadaver.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello.

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<v Speaker 2>And today we are talking about the moth man, the Mossman.

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<v Speaker 2>And to be honest, I'm a little concerned about this because the lure of this, the lore of this is so rich and dense, and there's a lot of people who are really in the weeds on it.

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<v Speaker 2>And I've learned from taking on the research, how sort of nonlinear it is.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm going to do my best to, uh, what I think the position this podcast is taking the moth man is trying to present it in a palatable, uh, accessible way, because you can certainly, you know, do like a five-part series on it.

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<v Speaker 2>Like that's how dense it could be, but we're gonna really try to, to go through it in a way that makes it palatable for everyone.

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<v Speaker 2>Even if you're not super knowledgeable about all of these kind of different cryptids in mythological things that we're going to get into.

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<v Speaker 2>And UFO's

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<v Speaker 3>Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>So the moth man, the moth man, I have zero familiarity with this outside of the movie, the moth man prophecies.

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<v Speaker 3>That was a doozy of a movie.

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<v Speaker 3>And you hadn't seen that before?

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<v Speaker 3>I had, yes, I had watched it.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know when the movie came out 2002.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>So I probably saw it early two thousands in a home movie situation.

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<v Speaker 3>I pro once it was on DVD, that was all about it.

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<v Speaker 3>I did not, I did not see this in theaters.

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<v Speaker 2>Gotcha.

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<v Speaker 2>I had seen it several times.

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<v Speaker 2>My family, again, big on horror films.

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<v Speaker 2>We had watched a few times background when it came out and, you know, a few times since I would say, I think it holds up pretty well from being from 2002 B again, this is going to be a wild, wild ride.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think watching that movie does a lot to set the groundwork for what, what the real events that took place like it is fictionalized, but it, there is a lot of, um, you know, real accounts, real accounts in the movie.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I think it's helpful kind of as like a first step to understanding the moth man.

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<v Speaker 3>So when I first saw it, I remember thinking this is a stupid

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<v Speaker 2>Really, I thought it was so scary.

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<v Speaker 3>I just remember.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I remember seeing it.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, like not understanding it at all.

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<v Speaker 3>Sure.

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<v Speaker 3>But that's fair.

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<v Speaker 3>And then, so this, this time around, uh, I watched again with a good friend, uh, and we both cause he was in the same boat.

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<v Speaker 3>He had seen it many years ago and he remembers it.

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<v Speaker 3>It was just of weird and scary and we watched it together and the whole thing afterwards, we're just like, we feel bad.

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<v Speaker 3>That was like a really unsettling thing to see.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of pieces kind of clicked into place.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll get into it later, but this is not a creature feature at all.

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<v Speaker 3>No,

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so much more.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not even a horror film.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I agree.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's once you, once we talk about all of these accounts and things that again were, are real.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a lot of weight to that film actually.

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<v Speaker 2>W

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<v Speaker 3>What, what's a better term for a real account.

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<v Speaker 3>Cause like we're not saying that this actually happened, but we're saying that these are real

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<v Speaker 2>Was inspired by true reports or, you know, something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>These are reports that actually exist.

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Like we weren't there, we didn't live through this time.

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<v Speaker 2>So we couldn't say whether or not this happened for sure, but I have my theories.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Well I have my theories too.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you haven't even heard that research.

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<v Speaker 3>You know what?

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe I did my own research.

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<v Speaker 3>I doubt it.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you

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<v Speaker 2>All right?

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get into it.

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<v Speaker 2>Buckle up everyone.

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<v Speaker 2>Cause again, non-linear here.

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<v Speaker 2>So bear with me.

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<v Speaker 2>I tried my best or can I say this in a way that made sense?

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<v Speaker 2>Local folklore encrypted mythology spans across the United States and the globe today.

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<v Speaker 2>We are talking about the moth man of point pleasant West Virginia specifically.

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<v Speaker 3>Wait, that was the place in the movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but we're talking about so much more than that.

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<v Speaker 2>We are really going to get into some interesting things.

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<v Speaker 2>If you visited the small Appalachian town today, you'll find a small tourism industry that's been created around the legend of the moth man, including a statue of the creature in the center of the town, museums and gift shops.

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<v Speaker 2>But was the moth man actually an unexplainable paranormal creature or did hysteria amplify sightings of rare birds in the area?

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<v Speaker 2>It certainly wasn't rare bird spoiler alert.

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<v Speaker 2>It was not.

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<v Speaker 2>I swear,

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<v Speaker 3>This is a second monster that boils down to magpies.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it's not, but I will say there, there, there is some interesting connections between the blob story and some of the stuff we're going to get into today, which I'll call out as we go.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>And I didn't do, you know, kind of Chronicle this and the research, but there are throughout again, like the last 100 years, even within just the United States alone, but looking globally, there are so many reported sightings of different bird, men type creatures, even in Brooklyn, New York in like the late 18 hundreds for three years, there was this people over Coney island over the beach with see this like Birdman.

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<v Speaker 2>And there was like hundreds of accounts of it and across, you know, in India and all these different places.

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<v Speaker 2>And so, uh, we're not going to get into like that, but it, it sounds silly, but it actually is like, there's a huge history of reportings of things like this.

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<v Speaker 2>So

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<v Speaker 3>The vast majority of paranormal sightings in general went away.

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<v Speaker 3>Once people started carrying camera phones,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess we're done here.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess you've debunked it down.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess you've sucked all the fun out of the episode,

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<v Speaker 3>If you would like to like it, subscribe

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<v Speaker 2>Stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Today's sources.

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<v Speaker 2>Good old friend Wikipedia.

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<v Speaker 2>We have moth man Americas and tourists, winged monster, which is a monster video last podcast on the left series.

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<v Speaker 2>The men in black and article from all things interesting.com, a documentary called the moth man of point pleasant, which you can watch on Amazon prime for free.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're a prime member, this is not an endorsement for Amazon crypted Wiki by fandom.com and the moth man prophecies book by John keel, which is a non-fiction book that just happens to have the same name of the film that was inspired by the events.

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<v Speaker 3>Also the great essay moth man, man, or moth

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<v Speaker 2>Alan couldn't.

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<v Speaker 2>How long were you sitting there?

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<v Speaker 2>Thinking of that one?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh no, no, no, not too long.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>On November 1st, 1966, there were national guard troops stationed outside, a local wildlife preserve that claimed to see a man bird in the trees.

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<v Speaker 2>Two weeks later, there were similar sightings, 80 miles away in West Virginia on November 12th, 1966 in Clendenin, West Virginia, five grave diggers were at work.

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<v Speaker 2>When they looked up to see what they described as a man with wings, soaring in the sky, over them, they claimed to have eyes on this figure for about a minute before it disappeared behind the surrounding trees on November 15th, 1966 and the T and T district of point pleasant West Virginia for adults to young married couples, Linda and Roger Scarbary and Mary and Steve Molet reported to police that they encountered a large creature standing in the middle of the road.

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<v Speaker 2>According to these witnesses, it was large in gray and its eyes glowed red.

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<v Speaker 2>When the headlights flashed over it, Steve Molech claimed the figure was almost seven feet tall with a 10 foot wingspan and red eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>Linda Scarbary said she couldn't see a head arms, but saw the glowing red eyes and that the figure shied away from him.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's not the moth then.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Well it's the moth man.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, you know where I'm going with this because moths love life.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think, I don't think that's going to be the strike one.

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<v Speaker 2>They sped away, but soon spotted the creature again, this time it was following them.

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<v Speaker 2>According to the group, they accelerated to over 100 miles per hour, but were unable to lose the creature, pursuing them.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is like a really pinnacle sighting.

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<v Speaker 2>This is kind of like what kicks things off.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's four young adults, right?

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<v Speaker 2>Two married couples in this hot rod kind of car that they're kind of rumors are.

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<v Speaker 2>They were out like street racing, kind of a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>They come upon in the middle of the road.

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<v Speaker 2>This very bizarre looking creature, super tall, big wingspan, right?

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<v Speaker 2>Red eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure.

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<v Speaker 2>They try to speed away.

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<v Speaker 2>They're going up to a hundred miles or per hour.

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<v Speaker 2>And the figure takes off in flight and is pursuing them and they can't shake it.

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<v Speaker 2>They grew super afraid that they were going to crash the car because of the high speeds.

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<v Speaker 2>And the creature seemed to chase them from town and pull back after they crossed out of the city limits.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah

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<v Speaker 3>Ha it has a jurisdiction.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, not always the length of the road where this chase happened was actually a local drag strip.

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<v Speaker 2>And Roger Scarbary, the driver was used to drag racing along along the road in his 57 Chevy still, they were unable to shake the creature from their tail, right?

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<v Speaker 2>So this was like an experienced driver who is comfortable driving quickly, had a great hot rod kind of car.

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<v Speaker 2>Still.

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<v Speaker 2>This creature was, you know, was a total match for it.

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<v Speaker 2>It was getting them good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I also want to take a second and this is a little bit of like homeworky, but I want to take a second to talk about the TNT area because it's going to come up

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<v Speaker 3>A lot today.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you mean by T and T area?

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<v Speaker 3>Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna tell you the McClintic wildlife management area also known as the TNT area is about five miles north of point pleasant, proper the PPP.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually call it P P in the outline a lot because it's so many, I say it so many times though.

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<v Speaker 2>It's now a nature preserve.

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<v Speaker 2>It was originally the home of West Virginia ordinance works a$45 million manufacturing facility.

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<v Speaker 2>That's spread across eight acres

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<v Speaker 3>By ordinance.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you mean like weaponry?

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<v Speaker 2>It was in operation from 1942 to 45, but was abandoned after the end of world war II.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, definitely.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Then it became a dumping field for toxic waste before taking its final form as a nature preserve.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh geez.

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<v Speaker 3>So it all weapons manufacturing facility turns into a toxic waste dump and then they send re-introduce animals and they wonder why they made a

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<v Speaker 2>Moth man.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course it became the local haunt for teens to drag race and neck.

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<v Speaker 2>I also want to call it, this is 1966.

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<v Speaker 2>So most of what happens that we're going to talk about is between 1966 and 1967.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's not that long after like the timeframe of the blob and those sightings, which was, you know, fifties.

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<v Speaker 3>No, the plop siding has continued all the way through the nineties.

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<v Speaker 3>In

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<v Speaker 2>Other words, I know I'm just saying the beginning of it.

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<v Speaker 2>The week after Steve, Roger, Linda and Mary saw the creature.

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<v Speaker 2>Other people in the area started to report similar sightings, including two volunteer fireman who described it as a huge flying bird with red, glowing eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>All witnesses claimed that the creature was clumsy at moving on the ground, but flew incredibly fast, again, up to a hundred miles per hour, armed local started looking in a TNT area for the monster so much so that police had to get involved to deter people from canvassing.

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<v Speaker 2>The area with weapons, things started to get even weirder when Newell Patridge a local to Salem West Virginia claim to see weird patterns on his television.

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<v Speaker 2>One night, shortly after he heard a bizarre sound outside his house, Patridge took a flashlight outside to investigate only defined to red, glowing eyes, reflecting back at him.

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<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately, he also believes the creature is responsible for the disappearance of his dog.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, there were of course initial theories at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know what they are?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm about to tell you, do you have initial theories?

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<v Speaker 3>Anything time you have something that's like a large creature, right?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, stories always get exaggerated.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm trying to think of what would cause eyes to be red.

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<v Speaker 3>Like what animal in nature would eyes glow red from like

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<v Speaker 2>[inaudible], well, here, there's a sighting we're going to get to later, but I'm going to spoil it now. Cause it's relevant. At one point later, somebody sees the moth man, what they assume to be the moth man on the roof of this abandoned factory in the TNT area. And they see from the roof that the eyes are glowing red. Okay. Right inside. They later encounter inside and the eyes don't glow because there's nothing for it to really reflect off of. So they determined. It's not that it was glowing. It said it was reflective.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So I mean, that's kind of what I was getting at, but cat's eyes don't, you know, they glow when the light catches it.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm

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<v Speaker 2>Just trying to security camera.

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<v Speaker 2>When I look at James.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>It's it's cause it's bouncing off the infrared light.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's why their eyes are shaped like that to reflect light so they can have better night vision.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm just, I can't think of an animal in nature that eyes reflect red, but then it must exist.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, or it's a cryptid.

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<v Speaker 2>So here are the initial theories at the time, local law enforcement, Mason county, sheriff George Johnson attributed the sightings to a large Heron that he called a shack Polk, wildlife biologist, Robert L.

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<v Speaker 2>Smith from West Virginia university reviewed the claims and determined that they could be describing the Sandhill crane.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a large American bird, which can be as large as a human with a seven foot wingspan and reddish coloration around the eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>Some believe that it was a bird that was mutated by the chemicals in the TNT area.

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<v Speaker 2>Witnesses agreed though that the creature didn't look disfigured or mutated.

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<v Speaker 2>It looked like it had grown up.

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<v Speaker 2>Um, what am I trying to say very much on purpose?

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<v Speaker 2>You know like, like how it was as it intended to be oh, intelligent design.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh, I just did a quick Google.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:43.740
<v Speaker 3>The number two hits for animals with glowing red eyes.

00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:44.100
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:14:45.029 --> 00:14:46.830
<v Speaker 3>Uh, or eyes that reflect back.

00:14:46.831 --> 00:14:47.100
<v Speaker 3>Yes.

00:14:47.490 --> 00:14:50.639
<v Speaker 3>Rabbits, which we can probably rule out

00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:52.039
<v Speaker 2>And owls.

00:14:53.509 --> 00:14:56.659
<v Speaker 3>Some owls get really big, 12 feet tall.

00:14:57.320 --> 00:15:04.070
<v Speaker 3>You add in a little bit of toxic waste dump, you know, and you get giant mutant owl.

00:15:04.610 --> 00:15:04.820
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:15:05.090 --> 00:15:05.299
<v Speaker 3>All right.

00:15:05.301 --> 00:15:08.360
<v Speaker 3>Well this is not, this is not at all my theory.

00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:12.889
<v Speaker 3>I was trying to give some scientific evidence.

00:15:13.190 --> 00:15:16.730
<v Speaker 3>It's like, if we're still on team, this is a weird animal.

00:15:17.090 --> 00:15:20.120
<v Speaker 3>Or this is a physical animal, which I don't think this was.

00:15:21.230 --> 00:15:28.039
<v Speaker 3>I don't think this thing ever actually existed in the way that like a creature would be here all the time.

00:15:28.250 --> 00:15:28.639
<v Speaker 3>You know?

00:15:29.629 --> 00:15:29.929
<v Speaker 3>Uh, sorry.

00:15:29.931 --> 00:15:34.549
<v Speaker 3>I don't think this is just like some monster that would just like sleep during the day and come out at night.

00:15:35.029 --> 00:15:35.269
<v Speaker 3>Right.

00:15:35.779 --> 00:15:37.309
<v Speaker 3>I think there's much more to it than that.

00:15:38.450 --> 00:15:42.200
<v Speaker 3>But if we're still on team, this is a big owl.

00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:42.679
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

00:15:43.570 --> 00:15:44.870
<v Speaker 3>That's that's our leading theory right now.

00:15:44.899 --> 00:15:45.139
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

00:15:45.409 --> 00:15:45.620
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:15:45.889 --> 00:15:47.000
<v Speaker 3>We'll see if we can debunk it.

00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:50.289
<v Speaker 2>You have to understand.

00:15:50.379 --> 00:15:58.419
<v Speaker 2>And this is where there's going to be a few just, I know I've said this, but there's going to be a few little side tangent journeys that we go on together.

00:15:58.421 --> 00:16:22.450
<v Speaker 2>As we explore them off, man, this is the first, you have to understand the history of point pleasant to really fully understand the climate of the time that the moth man siting started all the way back, back, back native American tribes were said to avoid the land of point pleasant where it is now because of curses or bad omens that they believed were abundant on lands where multiple water sources existed.

00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:30.279
<v Speaker 2>So in this case where rivers meet so anywhere where they have like a saying like where waters, mingle, that sort of thing, it was meant to be like bad luck.

00:16:30.730 --> 00:16:31.299
<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:38.529
<v Speaker 2>Native Americans also suffered and were killed trying to defend their land from colonizers.

00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:43.450
<v Speaker 2>During the battle of point pleasant, the native Americans were outnumbered and retreated.

00:16:43.659 --> 00:16:50.200
<v Speaker 2>The Shawnee chief who is named chief cornstalk, tried to come forward and approach the colonizers and negotiate a treaty.

00:16:50.830 --> 00:16:59.740
<v Speaker 2>But he and his son, some cases say son, some say sons, but he and his sons were brutally captured in murdered by the invaders.

00:16:59.860 --> 00:17:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Of course they were, the legend goes at his final words were our 200 year curse on the town of point.

00:17:04.750 --> 00:17:05.140
<v Speaker 2>Pleasant.

00:17:06.430 --> 00:17:08.319
<v Speaker 3>You don't, you don't want to mess with that now.

00:17:08.710 --> 00:17:09.220
<v Speaker 3>So, okay.

00:17:09.309 --> 00:17:11.619
<v Speaker 3>So now we have cursed burial ground.

00:17:12.130 --> 00:17:12.130
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

00:17:12.309 --> 00:17:16.450
<v Speaker 3>Abandoned weapons facility, toxic waste dump.

00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:16.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:17:16.670 --> 00:17:19.210
<v Speaker 2>It just keeps getting, just wait.

00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.819
<v Speaker 2>This is the tip of the iceberg though.

00:17:21.820 --> 00:17:25.690
<v Speaker 2>There is no way to know if chief cornstalk actually cursed the town.

00:17:25.990 --> 00:17:33.670
<v Speaker 2>Local historians have found that the towns, people perpetuated and escalated this rumor passing the legend down orally to generations.

00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:38.529
<v Speaker 2>The town even turned it into a play in 1923 to call the Chicago.

00:17:41.109 --> 00:17:54.539
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't help that the town of point pleasant did come to endure a string of bad luck, four times between 1913 and 1937, the Ohio river valley flooded and cause terrible damage and killed a lot of people.

00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:17:55.740 --> 00:17:58.380
<v Speaker 2>Here's our second little side side path here.

00:17:58.589 --> 00:17:58.890
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:17:59.910 --> 00:18:06.809
<v Speaker 2>In the early 20th century, rumors of a Birdman started to circulate, and this was totally news to me in the research.

00:18:06.810 --> 00:18:08.700
<v Speaker 2>I had not even heard about this before.

00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:21.059
<v Speaker 2>The really strange and unsettling thing about this is that these stories predate the moth man incidents by about 50 years, locals described the creature as a winged man with a wingspan of 12 feet.

00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.869
<v Speaker 2>Many describe him as being covered with dark and red feathers.

00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:27.140
<v Speaker 3>I think that answers my question.

00:18:27.500 --> 00:18:45.349
<v Speaker 3>So I just find it very interesting that these accounts jump to Birdman, as opposed to like, this is an angel or this is a, you know, some kind of other established winged humanoid thing from, you know, mythology.

00:18:46.099 --> 00:18:47.089
<v Speaker 2>It is interesting.

00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:48.289
<v Speaker 2>That's actually a good point.

00:18:48.290 --> 00:19:00.049
<v Speaker 2>And I wonder like psychologically, if you saw this, if it's easier mentally to believe it's an angel or if it's easier mentally to believe it's a Birdman, you know, I don't know.

00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.950
<v Speaker 2>I don't know like what the psychology of it is, but it's, that's a good point.

00:19:03.951 --> 00:19:04.970
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't thought about that.

00:19:05.450 --> 00:19:14.660
<v Speaker 2>A lot of the fantasy novels that I read the there's lots of man or like humanoid creatures with wings, like winged men and women.

00:19:14.869 --> 00:19:17.960
<v Speaker 2>And they're based in like Faye and other kind of established things.

00:19:17.961 --> 00:19:20.000
<v Speaker 2>But I didn't even think about that.

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:22.460
<v Speaker 2>You know, they're not like, oh man, that's gotta be a Scottish Fe.

00:19:22.819 --> 00:19:23.809
<v Speaker 2>They're like, oh, it's a bird man.

00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:28.880
<v Speaker 2>There's another local legend that we would be fools to open it here.

00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:31.130
<v Speaker 2>You wrote that down verbatim, didn't you?

00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:32.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:19:33.170 --> 00:19:33.650
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

00:19:34.490 --> 00:19:42.200
<v Speaker 2>One because it's relevant to the moth man and two, because it's exactly how the film, the blob starts, which is truly just a bizarre coincidence.

00:19:43.220 --> 00:19:59.720
<v Speaker 2>The flatwoods monster of West Virginia was originally cited on September 12th, 1952, Fred and Edward May brothers and their friend, Tommy Hyer reported seeing a bright object fall across the sky and land in a local farm belonging to G Bailey Fisher.

00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:07.369
<v Speaker 2>The boys gathered their mother and some other kids to return to the farm and search again, very similar to the plot of the blob.

00:20:08.089 --> 00:20:21.589
<v Speaker 2>As the group came to the top of the hill, one of the boys claimed to see a pulsing red light after pointing a flashlight in the direction of the light, the boy claimed to see a man like figure where the round red face surrounded by a pointed hood, like shape

00:20:22.460 --> 00:20:27.589
<v Speaker 3>Round red face with pointed hood, like shape.

00:20:27.650 --> 00:20:28.430
<v Speaker 3>That's a quote.

00:20:28.910 --> 00:20:29.390
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

00:20:29.450 --> 00:20:30.259
<v Speaker 3>I'm just trying to picture

00:20:30.259 --> 00:20:30.380
<v Speaker 2>That.

00:20:30.710 --> 00:20:31.130
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:35.509
<v Speaker 2>I think this one is going to give you this description is going to give you the mental image.

00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:42.799
<v Speaker 2>Kathleen May describe the figure as having small Kuala cans, clothing like folds.

00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:46.819
<v Speaker 2>And ahead with that resembled the ACE of spades.

00:20:47.410 --> 00:20:49.420
<v Speaker 2>That's almost a silhouette of the queen of hearts.

00:20:49.660 --> 00:20:50.140
<v Speaker 2>It's like sharp.

00:20:51.250 --> 00:20:54.220
<v Speaker 2>And like when you look it up, there's lots of imagery of it.

00:20:54.670 --> 00:20:58.240
<v Speaker 2>And it's, it's like this very distinct, but no mention of wings.

00:20:58.420 --> 00:21:04.180
<v Speaker 2>No, the boy holding the flashlight screamed and ran away, which caused the entire group to do the same.

00:21:04.869 --> 00:21:10.450
<v Speaker 2>The group also claim to have experienced a mist and a putrid smell and felt sick to their stomachs.

00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:16.869
<v Speaker 2>Local law enforcement investigated the next day and discovered nothing, no smells, no mist, no glowing lights.

00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:26.650
<v Speaker 2>However, the kids returned to the scene of the crime to find skid marks in a jelly, which caused the UFO community to label this incident as a UFO landing.

00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:27.970
<v Speaker 2>No.

00:21:27.971 --> 00:21:28.779
<v Speaker 2>So jelly.

00:21:28.809 --> 00:21:30.549
<v Speaker 2>Hello, magpies.

00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:35.069
<v Speaker 2>And again still we're like weirdly on theme with the blob here.

00:21:35.849 --> 00:21:35.849
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:15.900
<v Speaker 3>Well what was it?

00:22:16.470 --> 00:22:19.049
<v Speaker 3>Uh, amphibian Jay and Fabius jellies.

00:22:19.050 --> 00:22:19.829
<v Speaker 3>Spawn jelly.

00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:20.339
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:22:20.340 --> 00:22:21.509
<v Speaker 3>And Fabian spawn jelly.

00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:33.569
<v Speaker 2>So again, I'm not going to go too much into the flatwoods monster here cause it could have its own episode and it deserves more airtime on a separate day flatwoods at what it's called the flatwoods monster.

00:22:33.570 --> 00:22:34.829
<v Speaker 2>This incident, this

00:22:34.829 --> 00:22:35.250
<v Speaker 3>Incident.

00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:37.019
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because it's not the moth man, that's separate,

00:22:37.349 --> 00:22:38.759
<v Speaker 2>But this happens in the area.

00:22:38.760 --> 00:22:50.160
<v Speaker 2>So what I'm doing right now is demonstrating like the rich sort of history of cryptid and UFO sightings that are specific to this area because I think it's important for painting the whole picture here.

00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:55.589
<v Speaker 2>I'm not making the argument that the moth man sightings did or did not actually happen.

00:22:55.950 --> 00:23:03.720
<v Speaker 2>I tend to err on the side of believing in some version of these sort of things that being said, I wanted to give context around the history of the town.

00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:10.650
<v Speaker 2>We have a town where locals in the very early days believe that they were cursed for stealing land away from the native Americans.

00:23:10.980 --> 00:23:14.130
<v Speaker 2>We have a town that was hit with extreme weather, flooding and loss.

00:23:14.670 --> 00:23:28.289
<v Speaker 2>We have a town that has a history of UFO sightings and crypted legend, the Birdman, the flat woods case injured cold, which I'm about to get into and most famously the moth man, if anything, it could also be said that there's some sort of supernatural portal here.

00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:28.799
<v Speaker 2>Right?

00:23:29.670 --> 00:23:30.359
<v Speaker 3>That's awesome.

00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:30.900
<v Speaker 3>Well, we'll get

00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:31.170
<v Speaker 2>To that.

00:23:32.009 --> 00:23:38.970
<v Speaker 2>So either way we can get back on track here, but I wanted to sort of, you know, give the periphery periphery of what's going on.

00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:44.609
<v Speaker 2>I also want to quickly mention that we're going to have a conversation with John C.

00:23:44.609 --> 00:23:49.769
<v Speaker 2>Cook from the photo podcast because our friend John is from, is very local to this area.

00:23:50.609 --> 00:23:55.259
<v Speaker 2>And so he's had some experiences and we've had some initial conversations about it.

00:23:55.260 --> 00:24:00.990
<v Speaker 2>So as a followup to this, we're gonna have a conversation with John about his local experiences.

00:24:01.109 --> 00:24:08.700
<v Speaker 2>Cause I also, you know, this is a very specific town and I, and I don't live there and I've never been there and I want to make sure we're, you know, we have some local representation as well

00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.180
<v Speaker 3>Is now a good time to mention that we're recording this in the town

00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:12.630
<v Speaker 2>Right now.

00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:15.509
<v Speaker 2>We are not, we're recording it in New York.

00:24:16.170 --> 00:24:18.569
<v Speaker 2>Here's where things kick it up to the next level.

00:24:18.690 --> 00:24:19.019
<v Speaker 2>You ready?

00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:20.279
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah.

00:24:21.029 --> 00:24:24.980
<v Speaker 2>And if you Alan, you've seen the moth man and anyone else who has seen it.

00:24:25.069 --> 00:24:26.150
<v Speaker 2>I have seen the film.

00:24:26.690 --> 00:24:30.740
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I want to see if you recognize this name, injured, cold injured.

00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:31.630
<v Speaker 3>Hell yeah.

00:24:31.660 --> 00:24:33.430
<v Speaker 3>I mean, he's the main character

00:24:34.390 --> 00:24:36.789
<v Speaker 2>Injured cold or the smiling man.

00:24:37.750 --> 00:24:38.859
<v Speaker 2>Oh smiles.

00:24:40.569 --> 00:24:44.230
<v Speaker 2>So the cherry on top, in my opinion of this whole case is injured.

00:24:44.619 --> 00:24:44.619
<v Speaker 2>Colt.

00:24:45.369 --> 00:24:51.970
<v Speaker 2>There are three major sightings of him and there's more, but there's, there's sort of three that I'm going to talk about here.

00:24:52.809 --> 00:25:06.309
<v Speaker 2>The first two boys, Martin and James claim to see a smiling man and a green metal Sue, as they walked home late one night in New Jersey green metal suit, it was the evening of October 12th, 1966.

00:25:06.310 --> 00:25:08.019
<v Speaker 2>So the same fall, right.

00:25:08.380 --> 00:25:09.970
<v Speaker 2>Or the moth man sightings are happening.

00:25:09.971 --> 00:25:11.230
<v Speaker 2>But this is in New Jersey.

00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:11.589
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:13.569
<v Speaker 2>These two young boys are walking home.

00:25:13.570 --> 00:25:14.380
<v Speaker 2>It's late at night.

00:25:15.009 --> 00:25:18.609
<v Speaker 2>I think one says to the other, like, who's that guy over there by the fence,

00:25:18.670 --> 00:25:20.019
<v Speaker 3>Smiling with a green middle suit.

00:25:20.349 --> 00:25:20.470
<v Speaker 3>And

00:25:20.470 --> 00:25:26.289
<v Speaker 2>They turn and this very creepy guy is, is kind of like coming through the fence towards them.

00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:34.150
<v Speaker 3>Are we talking about just like in Armani suit made of metal or like a Knight in shining armor?

00:25:34.569 --> 00:25:34.690
<v Speaker 3>I

00:25:34.690 --> 00:25:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Think we're talking more about like, almost like a space suit.

00:25:37.450 --> 00:25:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:38.740
<v Speaker 2>Got it.

00:25:38.950 --> 00:25:42.660
<v Speaker 2>But that's just, I'm just interpreting the information I'm getting here.

00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:44.769
<v Speaker 2>We're all interpreting this quite differently.

00:25:45.789 --> 00:25:50.079
<v Speaker 2>The boys described him as a tall bald man standing near a fence.

00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:55.599
<v Speaker 2>The most unsettling part was this huge grin that was spread across his face later.

00:25:55.601 --> 00:25:58.390
<v Speaker 2>They recalled that he didn't have ears or a nose.

00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:13.029
<v Speaker 2>He chased the boys, but they were able to get away important to know that there were UFO sightings around that time in this area that tracks, the second sighting came less than a month later on November 2nd, 1966.

00:26:13.059 --> 00:26:19.150
<v Speaker 2>So now we're really in the same timeframe as the moth man, but this is in Parkersburg West Virginia.

00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:24.700
<v Speaker 2>So again, now we're in West Virginia Woodrow Dern Berg was driving on interstate 77.

00:26:24.701 --> 00:26:30.279
<v Speaker 2>When he heard a loud crash seconds later, a strange craft seemed to land in front of him on the road.

00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:34.240
<v Speaker 2>He later describes it as an old fashioned kerosene.

00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:44.049
<v Speaker 2>This is quoting an old fashioned kerosene lamp chimney flaring at both ends narrowing down to a small neck, then enlarging in a gray bulge at the center.

00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:51.339
<v Speaker 2>Next, a man with a huge smile, emerges from the craft and stands in front of Darren burger's car.

00:26:52.210 --> 00:26:54.730
<v Speaker 2>The figure speaks to Darren Berger telepathically.

00:26:54.730 --> 00:26:59.559
<v Speaker 2>And also you can listen to interviews with Darren Berger about the incident like on YouTube.

00:26:59.560 --> 00:27:00.220
<v Speaker 2>You can find them.

00:27:00.339 --> 00:27:00.910
<v Speaker 2>That's pretty cool.

00:27:01.509 --> 00:27:04.119
<v Speaker 2>Darren Berger claims that the figure said his name was injured.

00:27:04.121 --> 00:27:04.569
<v Speaker 2>Colt.

00:27:04.930 --> 00:27:06.819
<v Speaker 2>He told him he did not want to hurt him.

00:27:07.269 --> 00:27:09.700
<v Speaker 2>He was only here to learn more about humankind.

00:27:10.569 --> 00:27:23.039
<v Speaker 2>Darren burger also recalls that cold claimed to be from planet Atlanta lists in the galaxy of Ghana Mandy's, which he goes on to claim later that he was taken a UFO till analysts.

00:27:23.369 --> 00:27:28.380
<v Speaker 2>And he goes on to write a book with Alan Colvin called visitors from Los Angeles.

00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:30.569
<v Speaker 2>Uh, so I think it's sort of a chicken and the egg thing.

00:27:30.570 --> 00:27:47.549
<v Speaker 2>He got a lot of media like national media attention for this sighting kind of, you know, then goes on to write a book and claims like extra things which, you know, take with a grain of salt because once you get me the attention in your blood, but who knows either way, this is sort of the pinnacle injured cold sighting.

00:27:47.609 --> 00:27:47.910
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:27:48.029 --> 00:27:58.289
<v Speaker 2>The third siding now is very interesting to us because it happens in point pleasant in 1966, the Lily family had reported Poltergeist activity in their house.

00:27:58.290 --> 00:28:04.710
<v Speaker 2>Of course, because literally point pleasant is like, Nightvale like, it's like this crazy town where everything has gone.

00:28:05.730 --> 00:28:08.460
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever listened to the podcast welcome to night Vale?

00:28:09.049 --> 00:28:09.470
<v Speaker 2>No.

00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:11.569
<v Speaker 2>Oh it's I didn't really like podcasts.

00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:14.839
<v Speaker 2>I like listened to, or I like welcome to night Vale.

00:28:14.869 --> 00:28:17.660
<v Speaker 2>It's it's been around for a really long time.

00:28:17.779 --> 00:28:22.730
<v Speaker 2>And it's sort of this fictionalized town where everything is just like paranormal and crazy.

00:28:23.450 --> 00:28:24.950
<v Speaker 2>Like Jollyville yeah.

00:28:24.980 --> 00:28:27.769
<v Speaker 2>Like Jollyville but paranormal and crazy.

00:28:29.210 --> 00:28:35.000
<v Speaker 2>The daughter of the Lilly family, Linda wakes up one night to see a man standing over her.

00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:37.190
<v Speaker 2>And this is a quote from the daughter.

00:28:38.180 --> 00:28:41.059
<v Speaker 2>It was a man, a big man, very broad.

00:28:41.329 --> 00:28:44.480
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't see his face well, but I could see that he was grinning at me.

00:28:44.930 --> 00:28:47.299
<v Speaker 2>He walked around the bed and stood right over me.

00:28:47.750 --> 00:28:50.119
<v Speaker 2>I screamed again and hid under the covers.

00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:51.769
<v Speaker 2>When I looked again, he was gone

00:28:52.099 --> 00:28:53.119
<v Speaker 3>Well, that solves it.

00:28:54.230 --> 00:28:59.690
<v Speaker 3>And w where accounts of injured cold already available at this time

00:29:00.259 --> 00:29:00.259
<v Speaker 2>Too.

00:29:00.289 --> 00:29:03.109
<v Speaker 2>These all happened within like two weeks of each other.

00:29:03.259 --> 00:29:06.769
<v Speaker 2>Interesting in New Jersey, a different town of West Virginia.

00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:08.150
<v Speaker 2>And then finally in point pleasant.

00:29:08.151 --> 00:29:14.059
<v Speaker 2>And they all happened within two weeks of the moth man sightings, like the era, the first moth man sightings.

00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:14.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:27.019
<v Speaker 2>So in the film, right, the moth man prophecies, which is fictionalized, but injured, cold is actually the name of the demonic kind of other worldly type character that seems to be causing the chaos and issuing the warnings.

00:29:27.289 --> 00:29:28.730
<v Speaker 2>But we'll get to the film later.

00:29:29.210 --> 00:29:30.259
<v Speaker 2>Um, one more point here.

00:29:31.009 --> 00:29:35.900
<v Speaker 2>There's a correlation between the injured cold sightings and UFO sightings in each of these areas.

00:29:36.259 --> 00:29:39.799
<v Speaker 2>So believe what you want, but that is going to come into play later as well.

00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:41.509
<v Speaker 2>Things are really going to crescendo here.

00:29:42.740 --> 00:29:44.809
<v Speaker 2>Shall we get back to the moth man, please?

00:29:45.049 --> 00:29:45.349
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:29:45.829 --> 00:29:47.869
<v Speaker 2>Thank you all for your patience on visa.

00:29:48.289 --> 00:29:50.359
<v Speaker 3>So it's not the moth man.

00:29:51.049 --> 00:30:06.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean, listen, I can't answer that question, but the injured cold sightings, I just kind of quoted are distinctly different from the moth man sightings because injured, cold appears as a human man and the moth man appears as a mall.

00:30:06.109 --> 00:30:07.490
<v Speaker 2>So could they be connected?

00:30:07.490 --> 00:30:13.430
<v Speaker 2>I think the point is that people think that they are, but I don't know how they're connected, right.

00:30:13.431 --> 00:30:23.170
<v Speaker 2>Or if there is a shape-shifter in our midst, like, I don't know how it interplays before we continue with our, of the moth man, sightings of point pleasant, we're going to stop the episode.

00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:27.160
<v Speaker 2>We need to take a moment to recap where we are since we've covered

00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:28.509
<v Speaker 3>So much, we're in point pleasant.

00:30:28.809 --> 00:30:29.500
<v Speaker 3>I'm following

00:30:29.710 --> 00:30:33.069
<v Speaker 2>The years, 1966 and locals and point pleasant.

00:30:33.070 --> 00:30:40.750
<v Speaker 2>And the surrounding area start to have independent sightings of a large, somewhat humanoid creature with glowing eyes and huge wings.

00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:50.559
<v Speaker 2>And when I say humanoid, like it doesn't look like a man in like his face or anything like that, but it sort of like stands tall, bipedal, bipedal.

00:30:50.560 --> 00:30:51.309
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:52.049
<v Speaker 2>But

00:30:52.049 --> 00:30:54.119
<v Speaker 3>You know, bears look by pedal too.

00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:55.410
<v Speaker 3>It's true.

00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:58.470
<v Speaker 3>But you ever seen pictures of bears walking around on two feet on two legs?

00:30:58.890 --> 00:30:59.670
<v Speaker 3>Pictures of him?

00:30:59.730 --> 00:31:00.359
<v Speaker 3>Well videos.

00:31:01.230 --> 00:31:02.009
<v Speaker 2>It's so creepy.

00:31:02.339 --> 00:31:02.670
<v Speaker 2>Really?

00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:03.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.720
<v Speaker 3>You look just like a person in a bear costume.

00:31:07.309 --> 00:31:09.359
<v Speaker 3>Like they walk so well on two legs.

00:31:10.380 --> 00:31:11.460
<v Speaker 2>Do they do it often?

00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:40.490
<v Speaker 2>Oh, we're getting, we're getting a live example here.

00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:42.049
<v Speaker 2>I love this kind of episode.

00:31:43.700 --> 00:31:44.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:31:44.121 --> 00:31:49.819
<v Speaker 2>I can now confirm how truly bizarre it looks on a bear walks.

00:31:49.820 --> 00:31:51.079
<v Speaker 2>It looks like exactly.

00:31:51.080 --> 00:31:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Like you said, it looks like a human pretending to be a bear.

00:31:54.230 --> 00:31:58.430
<v Speaker 2>It's very silly and goofy and creepy everyone.

00:31:59.269 --> 00:31:59.269
<v Speaker 2>Gotcha.

00:31:59.329 --> 00:32:05.299
<v Speaker 3>Now just, just imagine it's nighttime and a bear walks up to you like that.

00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:09.319
<v Speaker 3>Just casually straws just casually walks past you.

00:32:09.650 --> 00:32:10.400
<v Speaker 3>What would you think?

00:32:10.401 --> 00:32:11.690
<v Speaker 3>Would you think you just saw a bear?

00:32:11.691 --> 00:32:14.269
<v Speaker 3>Would you just think you just saw fricking Sasquatch?

00:32:14.569 --> 00:32:17.630
<v Speaker 3>You know, you're you're the mind is going to jump to something supernatural.

00:32:18.950 --> 00:32:19.220
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:32:19.670 --> 00:32:21.680
<v Speaker 2>Especially my mind I would have.

00:32:21.740 --> 00:32:21.980
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:32:22.309 --> 00:32:29.150
<v Speaker 2>I would always think it's supernatural from point pleasant to Charleston, there was an influx of UFO sightings.

00:32:29.151 --> 00:32:36.259
<v Speaker 2>At this time, the newspaper even had to create a special assignment desk for all of the UFO calls that were coming in.

00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:39.769
<v Speaker 2>There seems to be a correlation between nights.

00:32:39.770 --> 00:33:01.670
<v Speaker 2>The moth man was seen and the sightings, they often also happened locally, often in the TNT area, the documentary, the moth man of point pleasant includes firsthand accounts and interviews with some of the folks who had seen UFO activity in this area, the north power plant inside the TNT area was also a hotspot for moth man sightings.

00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Bob Bob's worth was out with his friend.

00:33:04.881 --> 00:33:06.740
<v Speaker 2>And this is a story that I was referencing early.

00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:07.099
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of

00:33:07.099 --> 00:33:07.400
<v Speaker 3>Course.

00:33:07.401 --> 00:33:08.059
<v Speaker 3>His name is Bob.

00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:10.400
<v Speaker 3>Bob Bob's worth Bob palms.

00:33:10.730 --> 00:33:14.569
<v Speaker 3>Rob Bob's worth, definitely owns a pickup truck while he owns a motorcycle.

00:33:15.049 --> 00:33:16.400
<v Speaker 3>Didn't didn't see that coming.

00:33:16.730 --> 00:33:25.279
<v Speaker 2>He was out with his friend, riding motorcycles one night when they decided to ride through the TNT area, they saw glowing red lights on top of the north power plant.

00:33:26.029 --> 00:33:27.589
<v Speaker 2>They decided to go and see what it was.

00:33:28.009 --> 00:33:31.220
<v Speaker 2>They stopped at the entrance of the building and like kind of looked up right.

00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:33.259
<v Speaker 2>And it looked like eyes were looking down at them.

00:33:33.289 --> 00:33:38.779
<v Speaker 2>So they went inside as they approached through this dark like abandoned sort of factory type building.

00:33:39.259 --> 00:33:43.720
<v Speaker 2>They could see the outline up ahead of something in the dark, walking towards them.

00:33:44.230 --> 00:33:46.539
<v Speaker 2>And again, no lights inside the building.

00:33:47.369 --> 00:33:48.420
<v Speaker 2>It was a bear wasn't it?

00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:52.319
<v Speaker 2>It stayed on the dark side of the shadow.

00:33:52.320 --> 00:33:53.910
<v Speaker 2>So it was hard to kind of make out.

00:33:54.539 --> 00:33:58.529
<v Speaker 3>And just for anyone that wants to follow at home, just Google bear walks up, right?

00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:03.869
<v Speaker 2>Bob's worth described the creature's head as having a taper to it like a Robin.

00:34:04.109 --> 00:34:08.940
<v Speaker 2>Then it very slowly turned away walking down a catwalk that was inside the building.

00:34:09.510 --> 00:34:19.289
<v Speaker 2>And Bob's worth heard the sound of wings as it sort of glided into the air, newspapers and magazines in the area started to cover the UFO sightings and moth man sightings at length.

00:34:20.219 --> 00:34:22.559
<v Speaker 2>There are too many moth man sightings to cover them.

00:34:22.561 --> 00:34:22.829
<v Speaker 2>All.

00:34:23.070 --> 00:34:33.719
<v Speaker 2>Some came in as reports of large birds, others with more detail, but the media attention went wild and people kept flocking to the area to try to have their own experiences with the creature.

00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.210
<v Speaker 2>No pun intended, no pun intended.

00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:41.190
<v Speaker 2>If you heard like three towns over that, all of this activity was starting to happen.

00:34:41.489 --> 00:34:42.480
<v Speaker 2>You go to the town.

00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:49.170
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you drag me there, but say you were like in high school, I didn't know you in high school.

00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Um, yeah, but what would you go?

00:34:51.210 --> 00:34:52.170
<v Speaker 2>Maybe that's how we met.

00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:54.780
<v Speaker 2>Maybe we were in the TNT area.

00:34:55.530 --> 00:34:56.880
<v Speaker 2>No you weren't into that.

00:34:56.969 --> 00:34:57.690
<v Speaker 2>Not really.

00:34:58.079 --> 00:34:59.610
<v Speaker 2>What'd you think it was all just fake?

00:34:59.670 --> 00:35:00.059
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:10.050
<v Speaker 2>There is also a haunting report of the creature running alongside a car, keeping pace with the passenger window, as it drove through the TNT area.

00:35:10.590 --> 00:35:16.860
<v Speaker 2>Eventually it jumped on the hood of the car, stared at the teenagers inside and then started towards the factory building.

00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Of course they're teenagers eventually making its way to the roof where it started to throw coal off the roof towards the car.

00:35:24.389 --> 00:35:30.000
<v Speaker 2>And the witness in the documentary sort of describes this as like a, like it's almost like showing them to go away.

00:35:30.030 --> 00:35:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Like it's like go, you know, just trying to get them to go away.

00:35:32.489 --> 00:35:33.630
<v Speaker 2>Why is there coal on the roof?

00:35:33.989 --> 00:35:34.739
<v Speaker 2>It's a factory.

00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:38.429
<v Speaker 2>Finally, the creature spread its wings and flew away.

00:35:38.550 --> 00:35:41.280
<v Speaker 2>And often the interesting thing is people report this again.

00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:47.010
<v Speaker 2>And again, that it doesn't need to like flap, you know, to get like, to be in air.

00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:50.159
<v Speaker 2>It just sort of like spreads its wings and then glides up.

00:35:50.429 --> 00:35:53.340
<v Speaker 2>Like there's no like flapping kind of like that happens.

00:35:53.579 --> 00:35:53.579
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:35:54.210 --> 00:35:55.289
<v Speaker 2>The reports are mingled.

00:35:55.291 --> 00:35:59.250
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes the creatures on foot, sometimes in flight various reports.

00:35:59.251 --> 00:36:03.659
<v Speaker 2>Describe it as a Batman, a Birdman, a large bird, a monster, many.

00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:05.489
<v Speaker 2>Describe the flight pattern as similar to it.

00:36:05.579 --> 00:36:06.420
<v Speaker 2>Helicopter.

00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:07.170
<v Speaker 3>Say it again.

00:36:07.170 --> 00:36:08.670
<v Speaker 3>Instead of Batman say man bat.

00:36:08.849 --> 00:36:10.559
<v Speaker 3>No, there's a big difference,

00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Babe.

00:36:11.309 --> 00:36:16.679
<v Speaker 2>People describe it as Batman, as Batman in the documentary, as the hysteria picks up.

00:36:16.860 --> 00:36:18.659
<v Speaker 2>So do sightings and theories.

00:36:19.110 --> 00:36:30.719
<v Speaker 2>One of the initial witnesses, Linda Scarbary will claim to see the creature 18 times after her first sighting and Linda, if your call is in that kind of 57 Chevy at the beginning, God, I was like, why do I know that name?

00:36:31.829 --> 00:36:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Some local sink?

00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:34.800
<v Speaker 2>The creature is trying to communicate with them.

00:36:34.980 --> 00:36:36.599
<v Speaker 2>Some sense of sadness from it.

00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:42.199
<v Speaker 2>Local start to draw conclusions that the creature was extra terrestrial or supernatural.

00:36:42.230 --> 00:36:44.030
<v Speaker 2>Not simply like a cryptid.

00:36:44.769 --> 00:36:54.429
<v Speaker 3>Well, this reminds me of, uh, that woman, uh, who had the quote unquote special connection with the gorilla thinks as though the Rotterdam zoo.

00:36:54.929 --> 00:36:55.780
<v Speaker 3>I don't know this one.

00:36:55.809 --> 00:37:08.090
<v Speaker 3>So she claimed to be able to feel a very special connection, could feel his emotions and everything, and which is constantly sit and make eye contact with his gorilla would visit the grill all the time.

00:37:08.170 --> 00:37:09.400
<v Speaker 3>And the girl would stare right back at her.

00:37:10.090 --> 00:37:12.369
<v Speaker 3>And everyone is like, you really shouldn't be staring at a gorilla.

00:37:13.300 --> 00:37:15.159
<v Speaker 3>Uh, there it's, it's a sign of aggression.

00:37:15.161 --> 00:37:19.090
<v Speaker 3>She's like, no, I feel a connection to this animal.

00:37:19.809 --> 00:37:28.539
<v Speaker 3>And then of course the grill one day just has had enough breaks through the enclosure and just like beats the crap out of her.

00:37:28.630 --> 00:37:29.409
<v Speaker 3>Like choose her face.

00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:30.519
<v Speaker 3>Does it kill her?

00:37:30.699 --> 00:37:31.449
<v Speaker 3>Doesn't kill her.

00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:34.929
<v Speaker 3>She survives the ordeal, but this was getting mauled by a 400 pound gorilla.

00:37:35.139 --> 00:37:37.420
<v Speaker 2>Jesus that's terrifying.

00:37:37.420 --> 00:37:38.949
<v Speaker 2>I mean, yeah, but like serves her, right?

00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:43.000
<v Speaker 2>We've also the zookeepers you would think need to be like, Hey lady, that's not good.

00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:43.420
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:37:43.449 --> 00:37:46.960
<v Speaker 3>Many times, but that's why they also introduced gorilla glasses.

00:37:48.219 --> 00:37:49.210
<v Speaker 2>What a gorilla glasses.

00:37:49.750 --> 00:37:50.230
<v Speaker 2>Gorilla glasses.

00:37:50.619 --> 00:37:52.179
<v Speaker 2>No, no gorilla glue.

00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:53.619
<v Speaker 3>No, this is very different.

00:37:54.340 --> 00:38:05.739
<v Speaker 3>Gorilla glasses, uh, are a crafty little invention that you wear them and yeah, you wear them like sunglasses and it makes your eyeline look different.

00:38:06.219 --> 00:38:09.099
<v Speaker 3>So you can stare right at the gorilla, but it makes you look like you're not.

00:38:09.369 --> 00:38:10.449
<v Speaker 3>So you're not making icon.

00:38:10.570 --> 00:38:13.960
<v Speaker 3>It's impossible to make direct eye contact while we're in gorilla glass.

00:38:14.469 --> 00:38:17.380
<v Speaker 2>But if you wear sunglasses, it sort of is the same outcome.

00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:17.619
<v Speaker 2>Right?

00:38:17.829 --> 00:38:19.929
<v Speaker 2>Because it just hides your eye-line altogether.

00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:22.150
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I don't know guerrilla law.

00:38:23.349 --> 00:38:27.010
<v Speaker 3>Um, but he knew all law, but th th this is really smart.

00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:32.590
<v Speaker 3>Um, I'm going to send you a picture of a guy wearing gorilla glasses.

00:38:33.340 --> 00:38:34.000
<v Speaker 3>So yeah.

00:38:34.001 --> 00:38:36.190
<v Speaker 3>So you have the picture now and while wearing them.

00:38:36.190 --> 00:38:38.530
<v Speaker 3>And again, it's impossible to make direct eye contact.

00:38:39.070 --> 00:38:39.489
<v Speaker 2>Oh my God.

00:38:39.490 --> 00:38:40.420
<v Speaker 2>That's so silly.

00:38:40.900 --> 00:38:45.670
<v Speaker 2>It's it's just like, I's like going like in the other direction.

00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:46.960
<v Speaker 2>It's so silly, but

00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:50.170
<v Speaker 3>That stops gorillas from getting super spooked and aggressive.

00:38:50.409 --> 00:38:50.949
<v Speaker 3>There you go.

00:38:51.190 --> 00:38:51.550
<v Speaker 3>Who knows?

00:38:51.579 --> 00:38:58.599
<v Speaker 3>All this to say is people and the mortifies animals all the time, falsely.

00:38:59.000 --> 00:38:59.230
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

00:38:59.619 --> 00:39:05.199
<v Speaker 2>Other locals believed it was a demon or the devil itself stays closed.

00:39:05.980 --> 00:39:10.929
<v Speaker 2>When you listen to the firsthand accounts of witnesses, you can hear the conviction in their voices.

00:39:11.170 --> 00:39:25.000
<v Speaker 2>They truly believe even 50 years later in what they saw to your point earlier, Alan, most sightings did happen at night, but several witnesses saw the creature in the middle of the day, broad daylight out, just out in the open.

00:39:25.539 --> 00:39:30.460
<v Speaker 3>Although he was at during the day, he's much smaller and much more magpie shaped

00:39:31.329 --> 00:39:32.019
<v Speaker 2>Day or night.

00:39:32.050 --> 00:39:34.510
<v Speaker 2>Everyone confirms the red, glowing eyes.

00:39:34.869 --> 00:39:39.900
<v Speaker 2>One witness even developed a condition after her sighting, which made her own red and itchy.

00:39:41.070 --> 00:39:42.690
<v Speaker 2>So she's allergic to the moth man.

00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:43.619
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:39:44.010 --> 00:39:45.179
<v Speaker 2>He could put a curse on her.

00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:45.630
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

00:39:46.349 --> 00:39:54.659
<v Speaker 2>So if you remember from the film, John keel is sort of, the character is, is not sort of is the character that Richard Gere is based on.

00:39:55.139 --> 00:39:55.619
<v Speaker 2>Oh, okay.

00:39:56.099 --> 00:40:01.170
<v Speaker 2>John keel was an author from New York city who came to the area to investigate.

00:40:01.829 --> 00:40:12.719
<v Speaker 2>He joined forces with the local reporter, Mary Heier, uh, which is similar to the movie again, except he joins forces with the local sheriff, John keel interviews, everybody, right.

00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.210
<v Speaker 2>He's taking copious notes and records.

00:40:15.210 --> 00:40:20.340
<v Speaker 2>He wanted to get to the bottom of it to sort of debunk this and to figure out what was going on in point pleasant.

00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:35.699
<v Speaker 2>But when he comes to town, things kind of start to escalate in December of 19 66, 5 pilots from the Dallas airport claim to see the huge bird like man creature flying around the tarmac.

00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:37.349
<v Speaker 2>They initially thought it was a plane.

00:40:37.889 --> 00:40:40.920
<v Speaker 2>So now it's just like, you know, everywhere you turn left and right.

00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:41.940
<v Speaker 2>We got sightings.

00:40:42.170 --> 00:40:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:42.559
<v Speaker 2>The

00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:45.530
<v Speaker 3>Sightings is happening by an aircraft air traffic control tower.

00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:51.349
<v Speaker 2>They, they think it's like these five people who are working at the airport, they're like, oh, it's a plane.

00:40:51.469 --> 00:40:53.630
<v Speaker 2>It's by people who corroborate, right.

00:40:53.869 --> 00:40:54.679
<v Speaker 2>No, it's not.

00:40:54.710 --> 00:41:01.400
<v Speaker 2>It's this bird like man creature flying five people who are experts in air aircraft, you know, interesting.

00:41:02.329 --> 00:41:07.699
<v Speaker 2>So John keel starts to have his own personal experiences in the area.

00:41:07.940 --> 00:41:14.840
<v Speaker 2>So him and Mary, right, they're very important to this story, spend a lot of time investigating, but also going out to the T and T area.

00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:17.210
<v Speaker 2>Like you can look up his notes now to this day.

00:41:17.210 --> 00:41:19.190
<v Speaker 2>And there's like versions online that you can read.

00:41:19.340 --> 00:41:23.780
<v Speaker 2>They're really kind of very similar to the plot of the film diving into this.

00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:32.960
<v Speaker 2>And I would also recommend as an initial step, if you want to read his Booker, I listened to the audio book version of the moth man prophecies.

00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:38.059
<v Speaker 2>Again, the book that he writes is not affectional it's based on his experiences and research.

00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:38.599
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

00:41:38.690 --> 00:41:39.949
<v Speaker 2>The movie is fictional.

00:41:39.951 --> 00:41:43.610
<v Speaker 2>So they have the same title, but they're very sort of different source materials.

00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:43.969
<v Speaker 2>Got it.

00:41:44.539 --> 00:41:49.039
<v Speaker 2>So John keel, as he's here starts to feel like he's being followed.

00:41:49.070 --> 00:41:50.599
<v Speaker 2>Like his phone is being tapped.

00:41:50.601 --> 00:41:53.659
<v Speaker 2>Like his mail is being tampered with or intercepted.

00:41:53.661 --> 00:41:53.929
<v Speaker 2>Right.

00:41:53.931 --> 00:41:55.730
<v Speaker 2>He starts to get how he feels.

00:41:55.969 --> 00:41:56.179
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:41:56.210 --> 00:41:57.530
<v Speaker 2>He starts to get paranoid.

00:41:57.530 --> 00:41:58.730
<v Speaker 2>He's are some believe this.

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:09.440
<v Speaker 2>He believes that all this stuff is happening, which is drinking the Kool-Aid, which is represented in the film when he's listening to, to a, with injured cold.

00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Right.

00:42:09.829 --> 00:42:10.909
<v Speaker 2>He's got all these calls.

00:42:10.911 --> 00:42:15.440
<v Speaker 2>He hears like wiretapping and things going on in the film that's based on what he believed happened.

00:42:16.489 --> 00:42:16.880
<v Speaker 3>So yeah.

00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:19.070
<v Speaker 3>As long as long as we're talking about that scene.

00:42:19.099 --> 00:42:19.369
<v Speaker 3>Sure.

00:42:20.030 --> 00:42:30.349
<v Speaker 3>I thought one of the most interesting twists of that entire movie was when Richard Gere's character recorded that conversation.

00:42:30.829 --> 00:42:45.219
<v Speaker 3>And then the next day that recording actually existed, I could have sworn that the tape was going to be blank or something, but then no, they recorded it he's it sounded just like weird voice on the other end.

00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:45.639
<v Speaker 3>Yup.

00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:46.389
<v Speaker 3>Terrifying.

00:42:46.429 --> 00:42:54.909
<v Speaker 3>So, so he, in the, you know, in the film he recorded something, you know, there's some kind of physical interaction that wasn't all just a hallucination.

00:42:55.019 --> 00:42:55.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah,

00:42:55.469 --> 00:42:56.219
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

00:42:56.579 --> 00:42:59.820
<v Speaker 2>So this is where the story is going to take another nonlinear turn.

00:43:00.059 --> 00:43:02.760
<v Speaker 2>And we're going to start talking about the men in black.

00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:09.809
<v Speaker 3>Um, the movie starring will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones now, because that's a great movie.

00:43:10.019 --> 00:43:11.579
<v Speaker 2>What that movie is based on.

00:43:12.070 --> 00:43:13.619
<v Speaker 3>What, what, what that movie is based on.

00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:14.159
<v Speaker 3>Correct.

00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:25.829
<v Speaker 2>And there is an entire, there is an entire, very deep dive last podcast on the left series, on the men in black, which I will defer all of you guys to go.

00:43:25.831 --> 00:43:36.030
<v Speaker 2>I defer to the boys that last podcast on the left wholly when we're covering this topic specifically, but you literally cannot talk about the moth man and men and black without talking about the other.

00:43:36.539 --> 00:43:40.199
<v Speaker 2>So we're only going to touch on the men and black as they relate to this case.

00:43:40.201 --> 00:43:41.670
<v Speaker 2>And as it relates to the moth men.

00:43:41.789 --> 00:43:45.059
<v Speaker 2>But again, this is like a rabbit hole of like you could spend years on it.

00:43:45.869 --> 00:43:46.409
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:43:47.039 --> 00:44:01.739
<v Speaker 2>The most basic definition of men and black men dressed in black suits that come to harass or sternly, encourage UFO witnesses to remain silent about what they have seen galaxy defend.

00:44:03.730 --> 00:44:04.769
<v Speaker 2>This freaks me.

00:44:04.771 --> 00:44:05.489
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to lie.

00:44:06.539 --> 00:44:09.059
<v Speaker 2>This really gets to me in a way.

00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:20.130
<v Speaker 2>And the UFO community, they are believed to work for parts of the government or agencies designed to protect secrets about UFO's cryptids or other unexplainable secrets.

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:30.360
<v Speaker 2>That being said, there's a very, uh, often in these reportings of what happened to these incidents, people are like, people describe it.

00:44:30.510 --> 00:44:37.230
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's like a running joke in scifi movies where the movie we just watched for the blob episode, I married a monster from outer space.

00:44:37.940 --> 00:44:37.940
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:38.699
<v Speaker 2>That movie sucked.

00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:38.969
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:43.110
<v Speaker 2>But you have right in that a character who, which is an alien pretending to be a human.

00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:43.739
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah.

00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:45.179
<v Speaker 2>That kind of like trope, right?

00:44:45.329 --> 00:44:45.750
<v Speaker 2>Alien.

00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:47.039
<v Speaker 2>That's how this is.

00:44:47.041 --> 00:44:50.099
<v Speaker 2>It's like the men in black don't know how to open doors.

00:44:50.309 --> 00:44:52.289
<v Speaker 2>Don't know how to read they stutter.

00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:53.579
<v Speaker 2>They don't really know what they're saying.

00:44:53.581 --> 00:44:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Like they'll say, hi, I'm from Chicago.

00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:59.309
<v Speaker 2>I'm here to tell you about, and then they'll ask, where are you from in Chicago?

00:44:59.311 --> 00:45:01.769
<v Speaker 2>They won't know where Chicago is on a map.

00:45:02.010 --> 00:45:05.639
<v Speaker 2>It's almost like they have a script of what to say in anything beyond that.

00:45:05.670 --> 00:45:06.960
<v Speaker 2>They're totally useless.

00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:07.250
<v Speaker 2>No,

00:45:07.250 --> 00:45:07.469
<v Speaker 3>No, no.

00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:11.880
<v Speaker 3>The men in black are the agency that stops those people.

00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:13.260
<v Speaker 3>Cause they're not blending in.

00:45:13.260 --> 00:45:13.559
<v Speaker 3>Right?

00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:18.920
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm talking about, I'm not, I'm talking about the real life version of this.

00:45:19.019 --> 00:45:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Did you ever

00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:20.190
<v Speaker 3>Watch the cartoon?

00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:21.000
<v Speaker 3>No.

00:45:21.179 --> 00:45:22.079
<v Speaker 3>That was a great show.

00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:23.699
<v Speaker 2>No, I didn't know.

00:45:23.701 --> 00:45:27.210
<v Speaker 2>There was a cartoon, so they can't speak very well.

00:45:27.210 --> 00:45:35.960
<v Speaker 2>They can't read like there's accounts of like some of them staying like all night at somebody's house and just totally unable to communicate a human normal way.

00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:38.599
<v Speaker 2>And there's a lot of accounts of this.

00:45:39.010 --> 00:45:42.130
<v Speaker 3>I mean, this also applies to, you know, toddlers.

00:45:43.329 --> 00:45:43.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:45:43.630 --> 00:45:44.769
<v Speaker 2>So some claim, right.

00:45:44.829 --> 00:45:52.599
<v Speaker 2>That they're totally extra terrestrial that even to the point of having not having bones or understanding basic human behavior.

00:45:52.989 --> 00:45:54.579
<v Speaker 3>So that's how you vet them.

00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:55.599
<v Speaker 3>Certainly, sir.

00:45:55.699 --> 00:45:56.800
<v Speaker 3>Do you have, they're

00:45:56.800 --> 00:46:06.699
<v Speaker 2>Like, um, like their fingers are often described as very strange and like, yeah, but they're quintessentially like the total opposite of Molter if you will.

00:46:06.730 --> 00:46:07.150
<v Speaker 2>Right?

00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:15.070
<v Speaker 2>Not out there to want to believe in UFO's they are out there, whether they are extra terrestrial or they're some sort of government thing.

00:46:15.820 --> 00:46:17.230
<v Speaker 2>So they're out there to shut it down.

00:46:17.469 --> 00:46:24.369
<v Speaker 2>Most claim that the men in black cause a type of psychological trauma on witnesses now, Alan, with a Billy club.

00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:35.199
<v Speaker 2>Do you remember at the beginning of the film of men and black of moth man prophecies when John keel goes to the door of the couple, right.

00:46:35.230 --> 00:46:45.039
<v Speaker 2>And he knocks on the door, his car breaks down, he knocks on the door and he's met with a gun in his face and the guy keeps him in the bathroom and he's like, you've come here three nights in a row.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:52.239
<v Speaker 2>This is based on the men and black, uh, experiences that happen at this time in this area.

00:46:52.449 --> 00:46:52.449
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:46:52.630 --> 00:46:53.110
<v Speaker 3>Got it.

00:46:53.110 --> 00:46:54.519
<v Speaker 3>Cause yeah, Richard Gere didn't remember.

00:46:55.659 --> 00:46:56.650
<v Speaker 3>He's just like, I wasn't here.

00:46:56.679 --> 00:46:58.000
<v Speaker 3>But then he had all that missing time,

00:46:58.300 --> 00:47:02.500
<v Speaker 2>But that's actually based on a real interaction that John keel had that.

00:47:02.501 --> 00:47:15.369
<v Speaker 2>And he talks about it in the book about like how, you know, he came to like, he, he actually uses it to demonstrate what you were just saying, like how people project their own sort of, you know, if you see something, they project their own thing on it.

00:47:15.371 --> 00:47:20.289
<v Speaker 2>So like for, in this story, John keel, he, he talks a lot about how he was wearing a suit.

00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:21.159
<v Speaker 2>He's from New York city.

00:47:21.161 --> 00:47:22.840
<v Speaker 2>He's coming to this town to investigate.

00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:25.150
<v Speaker 2>It's the night he gets there, these wearing a suit.

00:47:25.150 --> 00:47:25.929
<v Speaker 2>It's the middle of the night.

00:47:25.931 --> 00:47:30.280
<v Speaker 2>He has a beard, which I guess is on common for the area, which I didn't realize beard.

00:47:30.309 --> 00:47:30.670
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:47:30.909 --> 00:47:31.869
<v Speaker 2>That's what he says in his book.

00:47:32.289 --> 00:47:33.130
<v Speaker 2>But it's middle of the night.

00:47:33.579 --> 00:47:34.780
<v Speaker 2>He has a black sedan.

00:47:34.780 --> 00:47:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Right.

00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:41.170
<v Speaker 2>He looks like a, a government, you know, he's a, he's a reporter, a big New York, you know, paper.

00:47:41.170 --> 00:47:42.190
<v Speaker 2>Like he looks like

00:47:43.030 --> 00:47:47.019
<v Speaker 3>He w he's he, he was wearing a beard or he had a beard with him.

00:47:47.769 --> 00:47:49.420
<v Speaker 2>He's wearing, he has a beard on his face.

00:47:49.900 --> 00:47:52.269
<v Speaker 2>So in this rural town of West Virginia, right?

00:47:52.271 --> 00:47:55.150
<v Speaker 2>Like this couple in the middle of the night, this guy comes to the door.

00:47:55.449 --> 00:47:57.460
<v Speaker 2>They thought he was really weird and freaky.

00:47:57.750 --> 00:48:00.670
<v Speaker 2>Cause he's bearded G because he's, he he's different.

00:48:00.670 --> 00:48:00.940
<v Speaker 2>Right.

00:48:00.940 --> 00:48:03.010
<v Speaker 2>He's wearing a suit he's in the middle of the night.

00:48:03.010 --> 00:48:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Like it's weird.

00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:10.809
<v Speaker 2>And if you have the context of like this, these men and black sightings or whatever, like of course you, you, it feels weird about that.

00:48:10.811 --> 00:48:11.079
<v Speaker 2>Right?

00:48:11.949 --> 00:48:13.719
<v Speaker 2>We're going to take another leap here.

00:48:14.230 --> 00:48:15.849
<v Speaker 2>Another we're leveling up one more time.

00:48:15.940 --> 00:48:19.659
<v Speaker 2>The next step of this very, very complicated story.

00:48:21.250 --> 00:48:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Tapas, COPAS, have you heard of tapas?

00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:24.039
<v Speaker 2>Tapas?

00:48:24.070 --> 00:48:24.309
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:48:24.699 --> 00:48:34.199
<v Speaker 2>No COPAS are a spiritual or a cult or mystical apparition that are believed to be created by belief or mental powers.

00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:39.239
<v Speaker 2>It has roots in the Tibetan book of the dead, especially the idea of a thought form.

00:48:39.300 --> 00:48:40.289
<v Speaker 2>Loosely Defoe.

00:48:40.940 --> 00:48:44.510
<v Speaker 3>One more time, please just recap it for me.

00:48:44.630 --> 00:48:44.929
<v Speaker 3>Well,

00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:46.610
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to give you a definition here.

00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:48.800
<v Speaker 3>Cause you, you peak my interest here.

00:48:49.460 --> 00:48:49.460
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

00:48:50.300 --> 00:49:02.630
<v Speaker 2>Loosely defined by a cultist William Walker, Atkinson as quote, simple, a theorial objects emanating from the auras surrounding people, generating from their thoughts and feelings.

00:49:03.590 --> 00:49:07.429
<v Speaker 2>Some believe that these forms always exist around us.

00:49:07.610 --> 00:49:09.679
<v Speaker 2>They are always there like radio waves.

00:49:10.340 --> 00:49:17.179
<v Speaker 2>And when certain conditions align, there is a breakdown in the system and certain people can see these figures.

00:49:17.900 --> 00:49:29.690
<v Speaker 2>He liked John keel, likens it to how some people can see or feel spirits like mediums and others cannot some have the ability to see something that other people can't, but it doesn't mean it's not always there.

00:49:30.860 --> 00:49:43.940
<v Speaker 2>So the Tibetans believed that very advanced people could actually access and manipulate these figures into Talpaz bringing them into the vision and reality of people who would not usually be able to see them.

00:49:44.809 --> 00:49:52.190
<v Speaker 2>John keel speculates that some UFO sightings may actually be told us how this relates to the moth man case.

00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:56.030
<v Speaker 2>Well, with the rise of eyewitness reports of the creature.

00:49:56.599 --> 00:50:00.139
<v Speaker 2>So came the rise in reports of men and black encounters in the area.

00:50:00.710 --> 00:50:05.659
<v Speaker 2>There were even reports of the men and black trying to abduct witnesses and pull them into their black sedan.

00:50:06.260 --> 00:50:07.969
<v Speaker 2>As all of this is going on.

00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:37.340
<v Speaker 2>Sightings of UFO's and the moth mans rise into the hundreds throughout the next spring sightings of UFO's and the moth man seemed to merge people, seeing them off band flying or merging with a UFO, like literally like seeing them in the same moment before finally tapering off through the spring and summer keel argues in his book that UFO sightings have been part of the Earth's history since the Dawn of mankind, that even the Bible includes mentions of strange movements in the sky.

00:50:38.059 --> 00:50:48.349
<v Speaker 2>He believes that these beings have probably been here long before humans were and that quote, unquote, stranger unexplainable events are actually part of the blueprint of our planet.

00:50:48.889 --> 00:50:59.480
<v Speaker 2>He also claims that once there's a belief established, and this is what we're talking about here with Toba is once there is a belief established, the paranormal will shift to meet your belief.

00:50:59.929 --> 00:51:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Meaning that once belief in the moth man or UFO sightings took hold and point pleasant, the actual sightings themselves shifted to meet the beliefs of the community

00:51:11.570 --> 00:51:11.570
<v Speaker 3>Here.

00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:13.190
<v Speaker 3>Here's what I have to say about all that.

00:51:13.460 --> 00:51:13.789
<v Speaker 3>Yes.

00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:25.760
<v Speaker 3>I was recently, uh, on a film shoot and where I was, I was speaking, uh, with a certain individual

00:51:28.099 --> 00:51:29.119
<v Speaker 2>Cryptic that,

00:51:29.780 --> 00:51:32.170
<v Speaker 3>Uh, was very into DMT.

00:51:33.070 --> 00:51:33.760
<v Speaker 3>Let's DMT.

00:51:34.059 --> 00:51:37.539
<v Speaker 3>DMT is a, it's a, it's a psychedelic drug.

00:51:37.809 --> 00:51:38.139
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

00:51:38.889 --> 00:51:40.539
<v Speaker 3>It's and, and it's a very,

00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:41.469
<v Speaker 2>It's very public.

00:51:42.030 --> 00:51:43.440
<v Speaker 2>It's like Iowasca maybe.

00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:51:45.460 --> 00:51:46.559
<v Speaker 2>You're not, you're no expert.

00:51:46.769 --> 00:51:48.360
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm I'm, I'm no expert.

00:51:48.389 --> 00:51:48.719
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:51:49.380 --> 00:51:49.380
<v Speaker 2>Um,

00:51:49.650 --> 00:51:57.360
<v Speaker 3>However, uh, we talked about this at length and she just gave me like the whole famous person.

00:51:57.989 --> 00:51:59.099
<v Speaker 3>I don't want to give any input.

00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:00.179
<v Speaker 3>I don't want to give any details.

00:52:00.780 --> 00:52:01.170
<v Speaker 3>Okay, fine.

00:52:01.500 --> 00:52:03.360
<v Speaker 3>Cause we're talking technically about elicit activity.

00:52:03.389 --> 00:52:03.659
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

00:52:03.929 --> 00:52:03.929
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

00:52:04.380 --> 00:52:05.099
<v Speaker 2>Tell me all fair.

00:52:05.219 --> 00:52:05.909
<v Speaker 2>And they use

00:52:05.909 --> 00:52:09.179
<v Speaker 3>It maybe like once every other month, once every few months, something like that.

00:52:09.539 --> 00:52:09.539
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

00:52:10.139 --> 00:52:25.139
<v Speaker 3>And what it basically does is like, you know, so, uh, uh, like a normal hallucinogen we're gonna use like mushrooms or acid as an example, that's something where it completely changes your sensory input.

00:52:25.409 --> 00:52:29.489
<v Speaker 3>And like things seem really different and weird and you have new thoughts and all sorts of stuff.

00:52:30.389 --> 00:52:40.260
<v Speaker 3>DMT is like being thrown into a dream where, where, you know, the whole thing can last about S you know, six minutes.

00:52:40.530 --> 00:52:48.869
<v Speaker 3>Oh, fast, but it can feel like eons have gone by, but it's literally, you're transported to like, you're, it's like you're into you're in a dream.

00:52:49.380 --> 00:52:51.690
<v Speaker 2>Not literally, but that's how it feels.

00:52:52.170 --> 00:52:52.650
<v Speaker 3>Uh, yes.

00:52:52.650 --> 00:52:56.159
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I, I guess so, um, again, this is all secondhand knowledge here.

00:52:56.909 --> 00:52:59.670
<v Speaker 3>Um, but it's literally like, you're just transported somewhere else.

00:52:59.880 --> 00:52:59.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:07.260
<v Speaker 3>And the way that this was explained to me, this person always uses it with an intention.

00:53:07.590 --> 00:53:10.739
<v Speaker 3>This person's very into meditation, all sorts of spiritual wisdom.

00:53:11.369 --> 00:53:30.449
<v Speaker 3>They go in with an intention because whenever they're there, they encounter, they usually usually encounter for lack of a better term, these entities and the appearance always changes, but there's something that makes them immediately recognizable.

00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:32.250
<v Speaker 2>Can you break that down for me?

00:53:32.489 --> 00:53:32.940
<v Speaker 2>So

00:53:32.940 --> 00:53:40.320
<v Speaker 3>Like, they don't always look the same, but there's something about their physical appearance that immediately makes them recognizable as, okay.

00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:41.429
<v Speaker 3>These are the entities.

00:53:41.610 --> 00:53:41.940
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:42.329
<v Speaker 3>All right.

00:53:42.690 --> 00:53:48.960
<v Speaker 3>These entities are in his understanding beings re real beings.

00:53:49.469 --> 00:53:49.679
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

00:53:49.769 --> 00:53:50.039
<v Speaker 3>So he

00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:53.969
<v Speaker 2>Believes that they're not a dream that he's accessing some sort of other planes.

00:53:54.300 --> 00:53:54.510
<v Speaker 2>They

00:53:54.510 --> 00:53:55.349
<v Speaker 3>Are, yes.

00:53:55.559 --> 00:54:00.840
<v Speaker 3>They are accessing other plans and they are just multi dude.

00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:05.280
<v Speaker 3>They're just beings on a different, I hate saying it being of different, of a different dimension.

00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:07.920
<v Speaker 3>These are multi multi-dimensional being.

00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:11.849
<v Speaker 3>So like, as we understand everything, we're, we're three dimensional beings, right?

00:54:12.059 --> 00:54:12.059
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:54:12.420 --> 00:54:13.559
<v Speaker 3>I forget the physicist.

00:54:13.710 --> 00:54:16.559
<v Speaker 3>Cause he was just really dropping a whole lot of science at me quick.

00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:23.969
<v Speaker 3>Um, and everything was like, so well sourced, what he was talking about this, I was very impressed.

00:54:24.630 --> 00:54:26.699
<v Speaker 3>Uh, but there's like 18 dimensions or something.

00:54:26.940 --> 00:54:29.719
<v Speaker 3>And like, I'm like, okay, I know the is time.

00:54:29.929 --> 00:54:30.349
<v Speaker 3>Right.

00:54:31.710 --> 00:54:34.880
<v Speaker 3>Uh, I don't know what the hell the others are, but there's, there's a lot of them.

00:54:34.909 --> 00:54:46.340
<v Speaker 3>And he was telling me about this, the scientist, that's not Einstein, but not only did they write out like this published theorem on all 18 dimensions.

00:54:46.340 --> 00:54:47.000
<v Speaker 3>I hope I have that number.

00:54:47.001 --> 00:54:47.269
<v Speaker 3>Right.

00:54:47.659 --> 00:54:49.880
<v Speaker 3>But proved it mathematically.

00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh, interesting.

00:54:50.960 --> 00:55:01.010
<v Speaker 3>And that's like, oh, and like, it's, you know, I want to say accepted by the scientific community, but I don't know for that far anyways, there's a lot of, there's a lot of science and math that back, all this up.

00:55:01.699 --> 00:55:01.699
<v Speaker 3>Sure.

00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:02.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

00:55:02.030 --> 00:55:10.190
<v Speaker 3>So anyways, he would encounter these entities, uh, and go in with an intention and then would basically be shown a purposeful dream.

00:55:11.690 --> 00:55:13.519
<v Speaker 3>Um, that would answer the,

00:55:14.710 --> 00:55:17.019
<v Speaker 2>This intention that he specifically said yes.

00:55:17.050 --> 00:55:36.159
<v Speaker 2>So his intention might be like, I want help with X or I need to think through X and then he would take DMT and his vision would, and he believes it was kind of like more of a, his opening up of the mind to access other dimensions would resolve that question that he put into the universe or address it.

00:55:36.190 --> 00:55:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

00:55:36.699 --> 00:55:36.969
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

00:55:37.030 --> 00:55:37.449
<v Speaker 2>I'm with you

00:55:38.190 --> 00:55:44.739
<v Speaker 3>Because of a higher number of dimensions, you know, again, I only know the fourth of time you get to see the future.

00:55:44.769 --> 00:55:45.639
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

00:55:45.670 --> 00:55:45.909
<v Speaker 3>Right.

00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:51.460
<v Speaker 3>Anyways, he would just get some kind of feedback and usually give him some kind of clarity

00:55:51.639 --> 00:55:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Is DMT, sorry, is DMT man-made or is it some kind of natural naturally occurring of plant?

00:55:57.460 --> 00:55:58.929
<v Speaker 2>Makes me feel like, I believe that more,

00:55:59.139 --> 00:56:22.929
<v Speaker 3>The only time where he wouldn't get like some kind of meaningful response from these entities would be, if he goes in with a weak intention where he, the way he described it was he basically go before, before these, you know, all knowing beings and ask a stupid question and they just wouldn't even bother, you know?

00:56:23.559 --> 00:56:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, it would be a stupid question versus a meaningful question.

00:56:26.739 --> 00:56:32.469
<v Speaker 3>And I don't want to get into specifics because I want to protect this person's anonymity relating back to the moth man.

00:56:32.860 --> 00:56:37.090
<v Speaker 3>So people kept getting these prophecies.

00:56:37.329 --> 00:56:37.809
<v Speaker 3>Right.

00:56:38.050 --> 00:56:43.389
<v Speaker 3>And it was for tellings of the future sorta, but they didn't where they, yeah.

00:56:43.420 --> 00:56:47.500
<v Speaker 3>They were about the future, but it wasn't about controlling the future.

00:56:47.501 --> 00:56:49.179
<v Speaker 3>It was just like, yeah, this happens.

00:56:49.389 --> 00:56:54.130
<v Speaker 3>Cause like you're just a smaller, you are a smaller dimensioned creature.

00:56:54.429 --> 00:57:01.449
<v Speaker 3>And what, what do they explain, explain in the movie how the, how the window washer who's up there can see a little bit further.

00:57:01.690 --> 00:57:05.590
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't mean he's, you know, smarter or more wise or anything.

00:57:05.590 --> 00:57:09.760
<v Speaker 3>He just has a different perspective and he's sharing the perspective because why not?

00:57:10.389 --> 00:57:10.900
<v Speaker 3>You know?

00:57:11.230 --> 00:57:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:57:11.739 --> 00:57:21.699
<v Speaker 2>I, I like in the film too, when, um, Richard Gere's visiting like the expert guy and he's like, why can't they tell me like who they are like this?

00:57:21.701 --> 00:57:29.070
<v Speaker 2>Why can't this moth man creature, like explain what he is and the guy goes, have you ever explained yourself to a cockroach?

00:57:29.789 --> 00:57:38.789
<v Speaker 2>Because it's just like the, the level of, of intellectual, you know, the level of intellect is so different between the two people that are the two beings that it's hard to communicate.

00:57:38.989 --> 00:57:47.480
<v Speaker 3>So just circling back when I was talking to this guy you know, at first, you know, for most of this, it's just like, okay, you're this is just you tripping.

00:57:47.929 --> 00:57:51.170
<v Speaker 3>And this is how you experienced this chemical, right.

00:57:51.710 --> 00:57:56.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm butchering the specifics here, but he encountered this artist's work.

00:57:57.469 --> 00:58:04.099
<v Speaker 3>And immediately in the art, in like in the depictions that this artist would do, he recognized the entities.

00:58:04.670 --> 00:58:10.340
<v Speaker 3>And so he tracked down, he tracked down the artist and he's like, this is so I love your work.

00:58:10.340 --> 00:58:12.559
<v Speaker 3>What's your, like, what is it?

00:58:12.561 --> 00:58:13.460
<v Speaker 3>What's your inspiration?

00:58:13.639 --> 00:58:15.980
<v Speaker 3>He's like, oh, I do a lot of DMT.

00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:18.260
<v Speaker 3>And when I take DMT, this is, this is who I see.

00:58:19.820 --> 00:58:21.679
<v Speaker 3>And like, I got chills as soon as he said that,

00:58:22.429 --> 00:58:26.090
<v Speaker 2>I, I will admit this, something about this topic.

00:58:26.090 --> 00:58:28.369
<v Speaker 2>And I've experienced this a few times in my life.

00:58:28.789 --> 00:58:38.030
<v Speaker 2>When I went through exploring the men and black through the last podcast on the left or with different research, every time I watched them off, man, there's something about this topic.

00:58:38.059 --> 00:58:43.280
<v Speaker 2>And I know this may sound like weak coming from me, but there's something about this topic that hits me differently.

00:58:43.880 --> 00:58:47.960
<v Speaker 2>And even two nights ago, when I was finishing up some of this research, it was late.

00:58:48.199 --> 00:58:48.980
<v Speaker 2>I was by myself.

00:58:48.981 --> 00:58:50.989
<v Speaker 2>It was, you know, like whatever time, midnight.

00:58:51.559 --> 00:58:54.829
<v Speaker 2>And I just it's like this.

00:58:54.831 --> 00:59:05.539
<v Speaker 2>It's not even like a fear necessarily, but it hits me in like a really deep, weird way, this topic where there's something about it that I'm like, it's not even that I believe it or not.

00:59:05.570 --> 00:59:06.860
<v Speaker 2>It's just something about it.

00:59:06.860 --> 00:59:11.300
<v Speaker 2>When I get into the research of it, that is very impacting on me.

00:59:11.570 --> 00:59:20.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, like I got, I freaked myself out, but not in like a normal, I'm scared of this way in a, in a different way, in a way of like is, I don't know.

00:59:20.001 --> 00:59:31.969
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not saying that I believe that this is a thing or not, but there is something about this that I, that I, I, I guess I probably subconsciously buy into a little bit or I'm intrigued by or something.

00:59:32.389 --> 00:59:32.750
<v Speaker 2>I just

00:59:32.750 --> 00:59:36.559
<v Speaker 3>Think that there's so much, uh, not science.

00:59:36.590 --> 00:59:41.269
<v Speaker 3>Science is the wrong word, but actually, no, maybe it's the right word.

00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:58.909
<v Speaker 3>It feels like there's so much science to this, with that where it's not just, you know, some people thinking that they saw the Lochness monster there's enough overlap from vastly different walks of people that there there's something going on.

00:59:59.360 --> 01:00:18.500
<v Speaker 3>As soon as this was like, exp, like explained to me, and then I watched the about, you know, this guy's experience with DMT and then immediately went and got some, well, no, I, I, so I watched the mafia prophecy shortly afterwards, and it just all like clicked and I'm like, whoa, that's pretty cool.

01:00:18.679 --> 01:00:28.780
<v Speaker 2>The idea is that this guy that you're, the guy you've met on set or whatever it told you, the idea is that he takes this to sort of access what already exists.

01:00:29.170 --> 01:00:29.380
<v Speaker 2>Right?

01:00:29.380 --> 01:00:35.500
<v Speaker 2>So similar to John keels and the way he explained it as radio waves, like something that's always there, but we just don't notice radio waves.

01:00:35.501 --> 01:00:35.650
<v Speaker 2>Right.

01:00:35.650 --> 01:00:37.510
<v Speaker 2>Because we don't have the senses.

01:00:37.510 --> 01:00:41.139
<v Speaker 2>We need to, to know that they're there, but we know that they're there.

01:00:41.679 --> 01:00:47.949
<v Speaker 2>And so similar to that's what John keel is saying, that these beings, these entities, this exists.

01:00:47.980 --> 01:00:51.039
<v Speaker 2>It's just like whether or not you have right.

01:00:51.041 --> 01:00:52.659
<v Speaker 2>The right facilities to understand that.

01:00:52.661 --> 01:01:03.070
<v Speaker 2>So your friend, the way it connects, what I'm seeing is that your friend, this guy you met is saying that these entities that he experiences on DMT, he believes are always there.

01:01:03.280 --> 01:01:07.360
<v Speaker 2>And they're sort of like this other plane that he just doesn't have access to unless he takes this drug.

01:01:07.719 --> 01:01:08.019
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:01:08.199 --> 01:01:10.539
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to kind of recap the connection between those.

01:01:10.739 --> 01:01:10.949
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:01:10.951 --> 01:01:11.159
<v Speaker 2>And

01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:22.949
<v Speaker 3>So like this opens up the whole can of worms of like what you were saying, is it, you know, you have mediums, you have shamans, you have all these people that are just it.

01:01:23.019 --> 01:01:25.739
<v Speaker 3>Are we just using different terminology for doing the same thing?

01:01:26.190 --> 01:01:30.150
<v Speaker 2>This is the first time I think ever that I've seen you, this bought into something like this.

01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:30.599
<v Speaker 2>Cause

01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:35.550
<v Speaker 3>This was explained to me, not in a wow, this like super weird thing happened to me.

01:01:35.730 --> 01:01:41.099
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what happened, but just like, no, this is like, what I believe this is what I feel.

01:01:41.309 --> 01:01:44.250
<v Speaker 3>I'm not trying to say anything exists or doesn't exist.

01:01:44.251 --> 01:01:45.989
<v Speaker 3>This is just my experience with it.

01:01:46.710 --> 01:01:46.710
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:48.809
<v Speaker 2>Does, did he show you the art?

01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:51.239
<v Speaker 2>No, that would be really cool to see.

01:01:51.659 --> 01:01:51.659
<v Speaker 2>Hmm.

01:01:52.019 --> 01:01:52.230
<v Speaker 2>But

01:01:52.329 --> 01:02:02.639
<v Speaker 3>The last thing I want to say, um, just cause this reminds me very much of the way that love craft describes higher dimensional beings.

01:02:03.030 --> 01:02:15.690
<v Speaker 3>So like all the Eldridge beasts and whatnot, humanity views them as like dark malicious gods, but they don't, but you know, they're not, they don't even really acknowledge humanity.

01:02:16.139 --> 01:02:16.380
<v Speaker 3>Right.

01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:21.570
<v Speaker 3>It's like, you know, the way you don't acknowledge the, the cockroaches, oh, you acknowledged

01:02:21.570 --> 01:02:24.750
<v Speaker 2>That they meet, they meet the nozzle of my vacuum real fast.

01:02:24.751 --> 01:02:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

01:02:26.010 --> 01:02:26.010
<v Speaker 2>Um,

01:02:26.190 --> 01:02:37.199
<v Speaker 3>But uh, a beautiful analogy for just like why people are supposed to go crazy when they, uh, view these higher dimensional beings.

01:02:37.590 --> 01:02:42.420
<v Speaker 3>So picture like a 2d person.

01:02:42.449 --> 01:02:42.780
<v Speaker 3>Right.

01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:44.219
<v Speaker 3>So like on a piece of paper.

01:02:44.699 --> 01:02:44.969
<v Speaker 3>Sure.

01:02:45.099 --> 01:02:47.219
<v Speaker 3>Perfect picture Mario.

01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:47.579
<v Speaker 3>Right.

01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:49.530
<v Speaker 3>And so you're yeah.

01:02:49.530 --> 01:03:00.210
<v Speaker 3>You're, you're in like a 2d world, you know, and now picture a three-dimensional thing like a snake weaving back and forth through the, through the plane,

01:03:00.659 --> 01:03:02.730
<v Speaker 2>Through the 2d Mario game

01:03:02.730 --> 01:03:03.119
<v Speaker 3>Boy screen.

01:03:03.150 --> 01:03:03.239
<v Speaker 3>Right.

01:03:03.329 --> 01:03:09.840
<v Speaker 3>Because you have the vantage point of a third dimension, Mario doesn't what would Mario see?

01:03:10.409 --> 01:03:23.179
<v Speaker 3>He would see just like these bits and pieces as it intersects his plane and impossible ways, it would be impossible to connect the dots from your perspective, but from the higher perspective, that makes perfect sense.

01:03:23.989 --> 01:03:24.260
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

01:03:24.289 --> 01:03:25.219
<v Speaker 2>He just blew my mind.

01:03:26.539 --> 01:03:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Did you just come up with that?

01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:28.239
<v Speaker 2>Uh,

01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:32.980
<v Speaker 3>This has been explained to me, not with Mario, but uh, it's this, this has been explained to me in the past.

01:03:33.219 --> 01:03:34.300
<v Speaker 3>That makes a lot of sense.

01:03:34.570 --> 01:03:46.449
<v Speaker 3>And so like when we were, when I was, you know, watching moth man prophecies, and they're talking about predicting the future and the guy that lost everything and like threw in the towel, whatever

01:03:46.449 --> 01:03:50.170
<v Speaker 2>His character was, bill Patton, she has character where

01:03:50.170 --> 01:03:51.820
<v Speaker 3>He he's like, it doesn't matter.

01:03:51.880 --> 01:03:55.570
<v Speaker 3>Like all these things that you're pro all these things that they're predicting for.

01:03:55.570 --> 01:03:57.789
<v Speaker 3>You don't actually matter.

01:03:58.389 --> 01:04:01.750
<v Speaker 3>It's just, these are just facts, you know?

01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:07.510
<v Speaker 3>And like, that's how I kind of looked at it where it's like, yeah, they're telling you like the news.

01:04:07.690 --> 01:04:23.469
<v Speaker 3>They're just telling you stuff because from their one perspective, that makes sense to tell you in that moment, they're not, but from your very limited perspective, what that information is coming through drastically differently,

01:04:23.739 --> 01:04:28.659
<v Speaker 2>It also causes this obsession because you want so badly to understand it.

01:04:28.661 --> 01:04:31.539
<v Speaker 2>And you never can, you know, you can't in the way that's,

01:04:32.019 --> 01:04:37.929
<v Speaker 3>It's like when bill Patton said, or when he was questioned about like, well, don't you want to know about these things?

01:04:37.931 --> 01:04:39.340
<v Speaker 3>And he says, well, we're not allowed to know.

01:04:40.090 --> 01:04:51.880
<v Speaker 2>It's also reminds me of gunslinger and I don't want to give anything away, but in the first book and in the dark tower series, by Stephen King, there is this like plot point that really freaked me out.

01:04:52.210 --> 01:05:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Like it was very successful plot point, but without giving too much away, it was the idea of having too much information about the future and what that does to somebody, you know, like if you knew Alan, what was going to happen to you for every single day for the rest of your life, that was really changed the way you live.

01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:10.179
<v Speaker 2>And it would like make you go totally crazy.

01:05:10.780 --> 01:05:14.829
<v Speaker 2>If you knew that at 35, this would happen at 40, this would happen at 50, this would happen.

01:05:14.831 --> 01:05:16.659
<v Speaker 2>Like you would go crazy.

01:05:16.869 --> 01:05:18.730
<v Speaker 2>But that information who absolutely would.

01:05:19.119 --> 01:05:21.369
<v Speaker 2>So just look at doc brown.

01:05:22.119 --> 01:05:22.929
<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

01:05:23.289 --> 01:05:24.730
<v Speaker 2>So, you know, I don't know.

01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:26.860
<v Speaker 2>There is some like headiness to it, for sure.

01:05:26.920 --> 01:05:30.309
<v Speaker 2>And like some sadness to it, you know, like life is also sadness in a way.

01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:35.650
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's all about not exceeding intended bounds.

01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:36.760
<v Speaker 3>Right, right,

01:05:37.630 --> 01:05:37.869
<v Speaker 2>Right.

01:05:37.900 --> 01:05:39.219
<v Speaker 2>Let's all make a pact right now.

01:05:39.250 --> 01:05:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Stay in our lanes with the devil.

01:05:43.030 --> 01:05:43.030
<v Speaker 2>Woo.

01:05:43.300 --> 01:05:43.630
<v Speaker 2>All right.

01:05:43.929 --> 01:05:46.929
<v Speaker 2>So back to the moth man here, back to good old point pleasant.

01:05:47.110 --> 01:05:47.440
<v Speaker 2>There we go.

01:05:48.070 --> 01:05:49.869
<v Speaker 2>After this sort of rage, right?

01:05:49.871 --> 01:05:52.809
<v Speaker 2>This hysteria rises for a very long time.

01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:59.260
<v Speaker 2>And there's tons of sightings, hundreds of UFO, sightings, moth man, sightings, men and black, all this stuff is happening at the same time.

01:05:59.920 --> 01:06:05.230
<v Speaker 2>There's sort of a period of quiet where there's like several months where things really died down.

01:06:05.949 --> 01:06:09.610
<v Speaker 2>We actually get to fall of 1967, the following year.

01:06:09.610 --> 01:06:11.110
<v Speaker 2>So a year after this started.

01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:16.659
<v Speaker 2>So in November, there's another sighting sort of out of, out of the blue, right?

01:06:17.829 --> 01:06:27.239
<v Speaker 2>By two hunters in the TNT area, reporter Mary Hyer, who was John Kiehl's partner in crime highlights fresh sightings in her column.

01:06:28.230 --> 01:06:29.159
<v Speaker 2>Uh, cause she has her.

01:06:29.309 --> 01:06:36.179
<v Speaker 2>She has like a recurring column where she covers specifically sightings, weird things that happen after this.

01:06:36.179 --> 01:06:49.500
<v Speaker 2>There's an explosion of activity again, which brings us to December of 1967, where things are about I'm at a warn, you, things are shifted a little bit away from paranormal and shift a little bit sad.

01:06:49.920 --> 01:06:56.610
<v Speaker 2>Oh, of all the cryptid sightings and unexplainable incidents across modern history.

01:06:57.030 --> 01:07:15.599
<v Speaker 2>What happens next is not only devastating, but truly sets this story apart from others for over a year, the town of point pleasant has endured the fear and anxiety of nonstop, monster sightings, UFO sightings, flatwood monsters, men and black and injured, cold sightings.

01:07:15.869 --> 01:07:22.110
<v Speaker 2>And again, believe what you want about COPAS, whether they're sort of some kind of collective energy.

01:07:22.110 --> 01:07:26.699
<v Speaker 2>This town is creating that these paranormal entities are morphing into that.

01:07:26.701 --> 01:07:38.429
<v Speaker 2>If there's some sort of thinning of the veil, if there, you know, believe what you want about the tulpa does and the thought projections and the reasons why this might be happening either way, that's the climate of this town, right?

01:07:39.030 --> 01:07:48.480
<v Speaker 2>The media coverage has been a frenzy and it all seems to culminate with the silver bridge collapse and the loss of 46 lives and nine injuries,

01:07:48.809 --> 01:07:51.150
<v Speaker 3>46 36.

01:07:51.179 --> 01:07:51.690
<v Speaker 3>Correct.

01:07:51.809 --> 01:07:57.210
<v Speaker 2>For some reason they changed that in the movie I put 36 just, I thought they would have faced it on that.

01:07:57.210 --> 01:08:01.170
<v Speaker 2>And then in the research, I was like, oh, it was actually 10 more interesting.

01:08:02.099 --> 01:08:27.180
<v Speaker 2>The silver bridge connected West Virginia to Ohio, the bridge was 40 years old, 10 days before Christmas due to a traffic light malfunction in downtown, the bridge was backed up with cars in semi-trucks gridlocked traffic because the silver bridge collapse on a Friday around 5:00 PM witnesses to the collapse, always point out that Christmas gifts ended up floating in the river alongside the cars.

01:08:27.720 --> 01:08:28.409
<v Speaker 2>That's really sad.

01:08:29.489 --> 01:08:30.840
<v Speaker 2>The collapse was fast.

01:08:31.109 --> 01:08:35.250
<v Speaker 2>The cables broke one by one causing the bridge to swing back and forth.

01:08:35.550 --> 01:08:36.779
<v Speaker 2>Cars were thrown from it.

01:08:36.780 --> 01:08:40.350
<v Speaker 2>And within seconds, the bridge collapsed on top of the cars and into the river.

01:08:41.250 --> 01:08:45.569
<v Speaker 2>It was a devastating incident that claimed almost 50 lives in mere seconds.

01:08:46.319 --> 01:09:02.250
<v Speaker 2>For years, the ramp to the bridge remained leading to nothing but serving as a reminder of the tragedy that took place after the claps, some legends emerged that the moth man had been seen perched on the bridge that night, but locals deny this.

01:09:03.029 --> 01:09:07.829
<v Speaker 2>They say that after this horrible event, no one wanted to hear about the moth man anymore.

01:09:08.010 --> 01:09:11.579
<v Speaker 2>That it just nothing, it wasn't as important as what just happened.

01:09:11.581 --> 01:09:11.699
<v Speaker 2>Right?

01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:34.109
<v Speaker 2>Some residents claim to see strange lights in the sky, the following days, but there was no more moth man, New York reporter, John keel leaves point pleasant, Mary Hyer continues to report on strange events in the area, in her column where the water's mingle, which again is based on the native American folklore that you know yeah.

01:09:35.640 --> 01:09:38.970
<v Speaker 3>Uh, was he present at the bar?

01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:41.939
<v Speaker 3>Was he part of the bridge incident or was that just a movie Liberty?

01:09:42.270 --> 01:09:43.109
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure.

01:09:43.170 --> 01:09:44.819
<v Speaker 2>I think he was in point pleasant.

01:09:44.850 --> 01:09:48.630
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if he was there or not, but he didn't save the woman out of the water.

01:09:49.500 --> 01:09:50.939
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean, I know.

01:09:51.510 --> 01:09:51.510
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:09:51.600 --> 01:09:58.649
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I, I, they also claimed to have had like a strictly platonic relationship as opposed to how it's portrayed in the film.

01:09:58.770 --> 01:09:59.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean,

01:09:59.039 --> 01:09:59.819
<v Speaker 3>It's Richard Gere.

01:09:59.850 --> 01:10:00.210
<v Speaker 3>Come on.

01:10:00.211 --> 01:10:01.109
<v Speaker 3>How can you say no?

01:10:02.670 --> 01:10:03.479
<v Speaker 2>And Laura Linney,

01:10:03.510 --> 01:10:05.449
<v Speaker 3>Good luck having a platonic relationship with that,

01:10:06.029 --> 01:10:06.750
<v Speaker 2>With that.

01:10:08.039 --> 01:10:15.029
<v Speaker 2>So Mary higher, sadly, after suffering from illness for over a month, totally unrelated just in the future passes away.

01:10:16.319 --> 01:10:23.880
<v Speaker 2>Mary hire's column had kept the reports of cryptids and sightings of all kinds alive for so long and in the forefront right.

01:10:23.881 --> 01:10:25.470
<v Speaker 2>Of the town's media attention.

01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:28.500
<v Speaker 2>And so there is something to be said about that, right?

01:10:28.770 --> 01:10:33.239
<v Speaker 2>Mary hire's column could have stoked the flames of this in a way.

01:10:33.479 --> 01:10:33.810
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

01:10:33.869 --> 01:10:45.060
<v Speaker 2>She was constantly reporting on these sightings and what was going on in, we all know people kind of, once you have that in your mind, you might be more apt to see something which again, tulpa or not

01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:48.180
<v Speaker 3>That's, that's the name of your new podcast?

01:10:49.109 --> 01:10:49.590
<v Speaker 3>Topo or nah,

01:10:52.050 --> 01:10:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Her passing things grow quiet on the paranormal front and point pleasant for a long time.

01:10:57.659 --> 01:11:09.539
<v Speaker 2>Five years later, John keel releases his book, the moth man prophecies local say that John keel is, was the driving force really that turned them off man, and point pleasant into this global fascination, right?

01:11:09.541 --> 01:11:20.489
<v Speaker 2>He being this New York city reporter who had this clout, he's really kind of the thing that skyrocketed this into the level of sort of fame that it has to this day.

01:11:20.490 --> 01:11:25.829
<v Speaker 2>There are still occasional sightings of the moth man around the TNT area and point pleasant, proper.

01:11:26.939 --> 01:11:34.079
<v Speaker 2>The connection we see in the film version of the moth man prophecies is that the creature is actually a Harold in some ways.

01:11:34.710 --> 01:11:40.979
<v Speaker 2>And there are rumors that he's been spotted around the world just as major disasters are about to strike, right?

01:11:40.980 --> 01:11:48.210
<v Speaker 2>So he, in the film, if you haven't seen it, and we're going to talk about the film in a minute, but what he's trying to do is warn people.

01:11:48.300 --> 01:11:55.710
<v Speaker 2>He does it in a terrifying way, but what he's trying to do is sort of in a way warn about what's going to happen, that all of these people are going to die.

01:11:55.711 --> 01:11:57.270
<v Speaker 2>That there's this major disaster.

01:11:57.989 --> 01:11:59.609
<v Speaker 2>And that's why it's the moth man prophecies.

01:12:00.479 --> 01:12:11.010
<v Speaker 2>There are some reports that when you look at like global disasters, like earthquakes things around the world, you have sort of similar reports leading up to those major disasters.

01:12:12.239 --> 01:12:16.050
<v Speaker 2>Again, that's based on what I read in his book, you know, that's not right.

01:12:16.409 --> 01:12:20.119
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's not, uh, backed by any major snaps.

01:12:20.121 --> 01:12:30.529
<v Speaker 2>It's not been peer reviewed, correct point pleasant now celebrates this part of its history with a local museum and annual event in sculptures in the town dedicated to the moth man.

01:12:31.189 --> 01:12:54.079
<v Speaker 2>And of course the film only helped to perpetuate this part of the town's history in his book, John Keele shares an experience Mary higher had with the men in black, not long after the bridge had collapsed two short men and you know, in their fancy suits, uh, she describes them as possibly being twins, walked into her new her office at the newspaper.

01:12:54.680 --> 01:12:57.949
<v Speaker 2>They asked her about the rise in UFO sightings in the area.

01:12:58.640 --> 01:13:01.699
<v Speaker 2>And John keel claims that Mary was taking a back.

01:13:01.880 --> 01:13:04.819
<v Speaker 2>The focus had been, you know, everything lately had been about the bridge.

01:13:04.859 --> 01:13:07.189
<v Speaker 2>This was like not long after the bridge collapse.

01:13:07.190 --> 01:13:11.420
<v Speaker 2>And so to have somebody come in and ask about, it seemed like tasteless and kind of weird, right?

01:13:11.869 --> 01:13:16.609
<v Speaker 2>The men reportedly asked Mary, if anyone had asked her to stop writing about the sightings.

01:13:17.300 --> 01:13:18.229
<v Speaker 2>And she said, no.

01:13:19.430 --> 01:13:21.770
<v Speaker 2>And then they asked her what she would do.

01:13:22.010 --> 01:13:24.199
<v Speaker 2>If someone told her to stop writing about them.

01:13:24.649 --> 01:13:33.529
<v Speaker 2>And she said, I would tell them to go to hell, oh, later the same day, another different man in a suit approached, Mary came into her office.

01:13:34.340 --> 01:13:38.659
<v Speaker 2>She noted that his hands seemed unusual, very long fingers.

01:13:39.229 --> 01:13:48.739
<v Speaker 2>And his suit looks kind of like out of fashion, outdated, like from a different era stresses the samurai, he, it was OSU, but it just, wasn't kind of like the latest.

01:13:49.279 --> 01:13:56.510
<v Speaker 2>He also wasn't wearing like a coat, even though it was winter and it was freezing outside, he was just wearing like the suit jacket, not like a, you know, a winter coat.

01:13:57.520 --> 01:13:58.779
<v Speaker 3>He also had a thorax

01:13:59.489 --> 01:14:01.899
<v Speaker 2>Thorax from, from Dr.

01:14:01.900 --> 01:14:02.409
<v Speaker 2>Shoes.

01:14:08.020 --> 01:14:08.859
<v Speaker 2>That's the LoRa.

01:14:13.390 --> 01:14:16.210
<v Speaker 3>The thorax is a part of an insect.

01:14:17.020 --> 01:14:17.949
<v Speaker 3>Oh, interesting.

01:14:18.189 --> 01:14:23.609
<v Speaker 3>Apparently humans have a thorax to the thorax is just like the middle part, a picture.

01:14:24.010 --> 01:14:28.539
<v Speaker 3>Nant you have the head on top, the thorax in the middle and the abdomen as the bottom.

01:14:29.680 --> 01:14:30.460
<v Speaker 3>You'll answer three parts.

01:14:31.060 --> 01:14:32.590
<v Speaker 2>The bottom is the abdomen.

01:14:32.949 --> 01:14:32.949
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:37.869
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it is the butt, but it's on a, in an insect,

01:14:38.590 --> 01:14:44.170
<v Speaker 2>My abdomen and my butter on different planes sites, different dimensions.

01:14:44.829 --> 01:14:45.159
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:14:45.430 --> 01:14:47.289
<v Speaker 2>So Ben, back to the story.

01:14:47.920 --> 01:14:50.409
<v Speaker 2>So the second guy comes in to see Mary later the day.

01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:14:50.979 --> 01:14:55.840
<v Speaker 2>He announces himself as Jack Brown and he says, he's a UFO researcher.

01:14:57.550 --> 01:14:59.199
<v Speaker 2>They talk for a little bit, it's kind of awkward.

01:14:59.829 --> 01:15:01.779
<v Speaker 2>And then he asks her what she would do.

01:15:01.780 --> 01:15:04.210
<v Speaker 2>If someone asked her to stop writing about UFO's.

01:15:04.510 --> 01:15:09.489
<v Speaker 2>Mary asked if he was with the other two men that had come in earlier in the man said no, that he was alone.

01:15:09.819 --> 01:15:16.350
<v Speaker 2>He said that he was a friend of gray Barker, who was like a really well-known UFO investigator from West Virginia.

01:15:16.409 --> 01:15:16.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:15:17.039 --> 01:15:21.420
<v Speaker 2>And so Mary asked if he knew John keel who's, you know, our friend John keel.

01:15:21.989 --> 01:15:30.510
<v Speaker 2>And the man said that, uh, since keel started to publish his own sightings and experiences, that he was no longer a friend, he called Kiel a liar.

01:15:31.109 --> 01:15:32.970
<v Speaker 2>And of course Mary was like, he's not a liar.

01:15:32.970 --> 01:15:37.439
<v Speaker 2>I was there when we saw these lights in the skies and that we've had these experiences, I was with him.

01:15:37.440 --> 01:15:38.640
<v Speaker 2>So he's not a liar.

01:15:38.640 --> 01:15:39.420
<v Speaker 2>I believe him.

01:15:39.630 --> 01:15:40.170
<v Speaker 2>I was there.

01:15:40.470 --> 01:15:44.760
<v Speaker 2>The man asked Mary to kind of take her out to where she and Kiel had seen the UFO's.

01:15:44.850 --> 01:15:48.960
<v Speaker 2>And she was like, no, like I can't spend my day kind of taking you around town.

01:15:48.961 --> 01:15:49.829
<v Speaker 2>Like that's where it is.

01:15:49.831 --> 01:15:50.579
<v Speaker 2>You can go do it.

01:15:51.630 --> 01:15:55.319
<v Speaker 2>Um, he asked if Kiel was in town and Mary said, no, like kind of like dismissive, right?

01:15:56.189 --> 01:15:57.359
<v Speaker 2>So this happens.

01:15:58.350 --> 01:16:24.119
<v Speaker 2>And then there's all these reports that John keel goes over in his book of more people coming to marry more men and black asking what she would do if they asked if, if people asked her to stop writing about it and then going to her friends, going to other people in the community, all of these people are having these experiences of these men in suits, these awkward men who like can't have normal conversation, something's really off about them.

01:16:24.510 --> 01:16:29.939
<v Speaker 2>And they all end up asking, what would Mary hire do if somebody asked her to stop writing about this,

01:16:30.439 --> 01:16:38.420
<v Speaker 3>This sounds so much like a government agency, tons of redundancy, zero efficiency.

01:16:41.149 --> 01:16:41.630
<v Speaker 3>Yes.

01:16:41.689 --> 01:16:44.689
<v Speaker 3>And weirdly we're in a lot, a lot of manpower.

01:16:46.760 --> 01:16:53.000
<v Speaker 2>So the men in black have been reported around the country, usually tied to UFO sightings.

01:16:53.390 --> 01:17:02.659
<v Speaker 2>They often arrive in strange old cars from, from like arrows that, you know, are not like coming in the car from the eighties or the twenties or something, you know?

01:17:03.630 --> 01:17:06.949
<v Speaker 2>Um, and they seem to have something different and everyone says, there's something off about them.

01:17:07.699 --> 01:17:13.460
<v Speaker 2>They are much bigger than this story, but they are an integral part of it all in all.

01:17:14.090 --> 01:17:31.699
<v Speaker 2>There were hundreds of sightings over 1966 in 1967 of the moth man in point pleasant, not to mention the other occurrences and incidents at the time, regardless of if you believe that this was mass hysteria or a supernatural event, I think we've all sort of abandoned the bird theory.

01:17:32.270 --> 01:17:41.960
<v Speaker 2>There is something to be said about the sheer number of unique witnesses and the community that has endured so much for so long throughout this research.

01:17:41.961 --> 01:17:55.850
<v Speaker 2>One thing has been very apparent that the people of point pleasant are truly a community, a resilient group that honors the tragedy of the silver bridge collapse and celebrates every aspect of their history with the paranormal and the unexplainable.

01:17:56.300 --> 01:18:02.899
<v Speaker 3>I think it was a very elaborate hoax by a mutant owl with a telephone and a crystal

01:18:02.899 --> 01:18:03.170
<v Speaker 2>Ball.

01:18:03.890 --> 01:18:06.710
<v Speaker 2>You don't tell me what you really believe, be honest.

01:18:07.340 --> 01:18:08.779
<v Speaker 3>Well, I've made my views clear.

01:18:09.380 --> 01:18:10.520
<v Speaker 2>You think it was topless?

01:18:11.029 --> 01:18:11.390
<v Speaker 2>I,

01:18:11.420 --> 01:18:12.770
<v Speaker 3>That is my, I don't know.

01:18:13.060 --> 01:18:14.500
<v Speaker 3>I think that's my favorite theory though.

01:18:14.979 --> 01:18:19.930
<v Speaker 3>I mean, th this is now, I mean, we're just really just dive it into like science fiction here.

01:18:20.109 --> 01:18:20.409
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

01:18:20.470 --> 01:18:28.720
<v Speaker 3>But, uh, there's lots of accounts and I'm actually drawing a huge blank on us.

01:18:29.079 --> 01:18:42.550
<v Speaker 3>Any other specific ones, but, uh, about how, when there's a huge tragedy, there's always like this psychic energy that bubbles through beforehand, or, you know, like thins, the veil.

01:18:43.270 --> 01:18:54.909
<v Speaker 3>And if like there is any other plane of existence, you know, why, why, why couldn't a thin veil, make them bleed into each other.

01:18:55.420 --> 01:18:57.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there is.

01:18:57.779 --> 01:19:02.010
<v Speaker 2>Um, I've talked about this before on the podcast, but in very early days

01:19:02.850 --> 01:19:04.319
<v Speaker 3>There with the, no,

01:19:04.859 --> 01:19:09.060
<v Speaker 2>There is, um, the subreddit called three Kings, right.

01:19:09.600 --> 01:19:13.229
<v Speaker 2>And it's, it's geared towards these, like what I call midnight rituals.

01:19:13.230 --> 01:19:23.699
<v Speaker 2>But like, there are things like bloody Mary three Kings, like different kinds of like step-by-step rituals, the elevator game, you have to do this, listen, you have to do this thing exactly.

01:19:23.701 --> 01:19:23.939
<v Speaker 2>Right.

01:19:23.940 --> 01:19:25.949
<v Speaker 2>All of these steps need to be perfectly followed.

01:19:25.951 --> 01:19:27.149
<v Speaker 2>And then this is the outcome.

01:19:27.150 --> 01:19:29.250
<v Speaker 2>And then people come and blow their experiences.

01:19:29.251 --> 01:19:33.119
<v Speaker 2>And it's, you know, it's kind of creepy pasta meets, pop culture meets

01:19:33.899 --> 01:19:40.140
<v Speaker 3>Wait until midnight set up the chairs, light the candles, take some DMT and then spin three times.

01:19:42.000 --> 01:19:43.319
<v Speaker 3>It works every time.

01:19:45.779 --> 01:19:52.439
<v Speaker 2>But, uh, there's one and it's, I forget the exact name of it, but it might, it's called something like spirit gut.

01:19:52.470 --> 01:19:59.430
<v Speaker 2>Like, it's not like an evil thing, like bloody Mary or the elevator game, which, and all of these are really about accessing different dimensions.

01:19:59.460 --> 01:20:00.359
<v Speaker 2>That's what they're about.

01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:03.449
<v Speaker 2>It's not about even like ghosts or paranormal.

01:20:03.451 --> 01:20:06.720
<v Speaker 2>It's like you do this and you can access another dimension.

01:20:06.720 --> 01:20:19.710
<v Speaker 2>Now, do I think if you go into an elevator and you press all these buttons, you know, to me, I don't think that's the key, but there's something very creepy about them because, because of that, because like, I think different dimensions feel more possible than other things, right?

01:20:20.220 --> 01:20:24.420
<v Speaker 2>And so there's this one that it's like accessing your spirit guide or something like that.

01:20:24.840 --> 01:20:29.909
<v Speaker 2>And, you know, it's a silly ritual where you have to kind of like cover the lights and, you know, do this and do that.

01:20:31.140 --> 01:20:32.550
<v Speaker 2>But the, it takes a while.

01:20:33.180 --> 01:20:36.539
<v Speaker 2>But the end result is that this like guide comes to you.

01:20:36.659 --> 01:20:43.800
<v Speaker 2>And it's very similar to what you were explaining about the DMT, where this guide comes to you, where they might look kind of human.

01:20:43.890 --> 01:20:51.539
<v Speaker 2>They might not, and you can ask them like one question, you know, all of that seems a little fictionalized, but it's the same ideas.

01:20:51.541 --> 01:20:54.750
<v Speaker 2>Like you can approach them with this question and they will help you with this one thing.

01:20:54.751 --> 01:20:58.649
<v Speaker 2>And you can, once you, you have to kind of do some stuff to like win them over.

01:20:58.650 --> 01:21:07.770
<v Speaker 2>And then once you do, you can ha you can access them, like in a respectable amount of time, you know, you can't like use them every day, but you can access them as needed for like a lifetime.

01:21:08.460 --> 01:21:10.079
<v Speaker 2>And there's just something about that.

01:21:10.081 --> 01:21:11.270
<v Speaker 2>That always kind of stuck me.

01:21:11.270 --> 01:21:12.409
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm gonna,

01:21:12.420 --> 01:21:21.710
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna butcher this, but this is reminding me of a description of contacting higher beings.

01:21:21.739 --> 01:21:24.350
<v Speaker 3>That's just somebody wrote up, uh, probably I'd read it.

01:21:24.409 --> 01:21:24.710
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

01:21:24.949 --> 01:21:29.989
<v Speaker 3>And so we're gonna use the example of you're the higher being and there's some ants.

01:21:30.020 --> 01:21:30.380
<v Speaker 3>Right.

01:21:30.890 --> 01:21:37.939
<v Speaker 3>So just imagine all of a sudden aunts, uh, that, you know, you've never taken notice of them before.

01:21:38.479 --> 01:21:40.970
<v Speaker 3>All of a sudden they're saying your name,

01:21:42.850 --> 01:21:43.210
<v Speaker 2>Right.

01:21:43.689 --> 01:21:45.369
<v Speaker 3>You're going to take a look at them, right.

01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:45.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

01:21:45.970 --> 01:21:46.750
<v Speaker 3>And it's like, what?

01:21:48.760 --> 01:21:51.369
<v Speaker 3>And that, you know, w w what do they want?

01:21:51.460 --> 01:21:55.210
<v Speaker 3>They, they, they say like, ah, these, these other ants, they're just so evil.

01:21:55.211 --> 01:21:56.680
<v Speaker 3>We want you to destroy them.

01:21:57.159 --> 01:21:57.939
<v Speaker 3>And you're like, okay.

01:21:58.750 --> 01:22:01.310
<v Speaker 3>And so I used up and, you know, he stepped on the ants.

01:22:01.319 --> 01:22:03.729
<v Speaker 3>He said, ah, this, this ant doesn't love me.

01:22:03.730 --> 01:22:05.649
<v Speaker 3>And so you just step on all the other answers.

01:22:05.920 --> 01:22:08.470
<v Speaker 3>You're the only two left, like, why not they're ants?

01:22:08.470 --> 01:22:10.060
<v Speaker 3>And they're saying your name of cool.

01:22:10.779 --> 01:22:11.170
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:22:11.829 --> 01:22:12.250
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:22:12.640 --> 01:22:16.270
<v Speaker 2>Would you, that's a lot of power that you have, is it,

01:22:16.300 --> 01:22:18.010
<v Speaker 3>You're just going about,

01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:22.899
<v Speaker 2>If you were, if, if you're an aunt, then it's a lot of power that they're putting in you,

01:22:23.140 --> 01:22:23.140
<v Speaker 3>Right.

01:22:23.140 --> 01:22:24.279
<v Speaker 3>From the aunt's perspective.

01:22:24.280 --> 01:22:24.670
<v Speaker 3>Sure.

01:22:24.699 --> 01:22:26.800
<v Speaker 3>But from yours, you're just moving your foot a little bit.

01:22:27.939 --> 01:22:45.340
<v Speaker 2>I know, but I'm, I'm saying that's like the, the balance, that's like the whole crux of all of this is like, is that things, you know, as you sort of escalate and whether or not, I dunno, it's like a higher dimensional scale or whatever it is, or a scale of intellect or whatever the power does shift.

01:22:45.341 --> 01:22:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Right.

01:22:45.520 --> 01:22:53.770
<v Speaker 2>So if you do have some sort of superior beings to us, like, that's why, like, why would they give a if your friend asked them about like, oh man.

01:22:53.800 --> 01:23:00.220
<v Speaker 2>Even if it's a really meaningful question, even if it's like, I really want to bring peace to Afghanistan, why would they give a?

01:23:00.699 --> 01:23:05.590
<v Speaker 2>Like, why would you, if the ants came to you and they said, we really want to bring peace to this colony, what would you like?

01:23:05.591 --> 01:23:06.039
<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean?

01:23:06.041 --> 01:23:06.340
<v Speaker 2>Like,

01:23:07.359 --> 01:23:15.819
<v Speaker 3>Well, because right now we're trying to put human motivations onto a non-human being right.

01:23:16.479 --> 01:23:21.279
<v Speaker 3>And so this comes back to the, the, the Mario example.

01:23:21.819 --> 01:23:24.130
<v Speaker 3>It's, it's all about perspective.

01:23:24.399 --> 01:23:39.279
<v Speaker 3>Like the information that they give you makes sense from one perspective, maybe it's, but it's going to be super confusing or give the completely wrong perception from the, the earthly plane.

01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:43.689
<v Speaker 3>And, but again, maybe it's just interest, curiosity.

01:23:43.690 --> 01:23:53.829
<v Speaker 3>They say in the moth man prophecies, how, the only reason why the moth man or whatever is noticing them at all is because you noticed him in the first place.

01:23:53.831 --> 01:23:55.000
<v Speaker 3>And they just acknowledge that.

01:23:55.510 --> 01:23:55.810
<v Speaker 3>Right.

01:23:56.109 --> 01:24:04.600
<v Speaker 3>It's just because where we're trying to put human beliefs onto an unknowable being.

01:24:05.350 --> 01:24:05.590
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:24:05.649 --> 01:24:07.510
<v Speaker 2>And we'll go crazy if we try too hard.

01:24:07.779 --> 01:24:07.779
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:24:08.409 --> 01:24:09.029
<v Speaker 2>Well, okay.

01:24:09.030 --> 01:24:11.789
<v Speaker 2>On that note, let's talk about some pop culture.

01:24:12.569 --> 01:24:16.819
<v Speaker 2>I'm just going to have, we've talked about the movie a lot, so I don't think we need to do like a deep dive into it.

01:24:17.159 --> 01:24:31.739
<v Speaker 2>That's for horror movie club, but I, but I'm just going to give some basics in 2002, John kill's book was turned into a fictionalized major motion picture, starring Richard Gere, Debra messing Laura Linney.

01:24:31.740 --> 01:24:35.220
<v Speaker 2>And will Patton you don't say directed by mark Pellington.

01:24:35.670 --> 01:24:38.609
<v Speaker 2>The film was met with extremely divided reviews.

01:24:38.850 --> 01:24:38.850
<v Speaker 2>Oh.

01:24:38.850 --> 01:24:39.689
<v Speaker 2>So confusing.

01:24:40.439 --> 01:24:47.760
<v Speaker 2>Some thought it was a mishmash of paranormal storytelling and others praise as the most realistic display of demonology in cinema.

01:24:47.819 --> 01:24:48.630
<v Speaker 2>Bam got them.

01:24:49.020 --> 01:24:49.619
<v Speaker 2>I love it.

01:24:49.869 --> 01:24:49.869
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:24:50.050 --> 01:24:53.489
<v Speaker 2>It, it, it was terrifying to me even when I was younger.

01:24:53.490 --> 01:25:02.189
<v Speaker 2>And didn't truly understand, it's terrifying to me now as an adult, when you do, I think either way, uh, it's it's a well done.

01:25:02.850 --> 01:25:11.550
<v Speaker 2>And even now, like having gone through this research and you see that they included injured cold and the men and black, and, you know, it's not just like they told the story of moth man sightings.

01:25:11.579 --> 01:25:18.810
<v Speaker 2>They really like paid attention to John kills writings and turned it into something that I think works really well.

01:25:18.869 --> 01:25:23.369
<v Speaker 2>And it's even more meaningful after you sort of dive deeply into some of these things.

01:25:23.850 --> 01:25:29.220
<v Speaker 2>Fun, little shout out number, the flatwoods monster, the ones shaped like the spades from the playing cards.

01:25:29.220 --> 01:25:29.550
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

01:25:30.119 --> 01:25:33.779
<v Speaker 2>The flatwoods monster appears in these video games.

01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:36.930
<v Speaker 2>Oh, fallout 76.

01:25:37.439 --> 01:25:38.069
<v Speaker 2>Screw that game.

01:25:38.279 --> 01:25:40.949
<v Speaker 2>The legend of Zelda Majora's mask.

01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:42.390
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

01:25:42.720 --> 01:25:46.500
<v Speaker 2>Space Harrier to AMA gone.

01:25:48.300 --> 01:25:49.649
<v Speaker 2>Stryker's 1945.

01:25:49.920 --> 01:25:55.609
<v Speaker 2>And as an Easter egg in everybody's golf for neat.

01:25:56.630 --> 01:26:04.010
<v Speaker 2>And of course, uh, when we're talking about men and black, we have the summer blockbusters starring will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones.

01:26:04.250 --> 01:26:06.680
<v Speaker 2>The first film was released in 1997.

01:26:08.989 --> 01:26:12.859
<v Speaker 3>You just put that, you just put your little notes down so proudly for yourself.

01:26:14.539 --> 01:26:15.050
<v Speaker 3>Uh, yeah.

01:26:15.079 --> 01:26:24.260
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think the first men in black was a really good example of like the type of Migos that the agency does after that.

01:26:24.261 --> 01:26:26.539
<v Speaker 3>It's just like fun stories now that you're in the world.

01:26:27.199 --> 01:26:37.159
<v Speaker 2>And the interesting thing is that in the men in black, right though, they are an agency, there is like a there's aliens and things at work at the agency.

01:26:37.161 --> 01:26:37.460
<v Speaker 2>Right.

01:26:37.939 --> 01:26:37.939
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

01:26:38.359 --> 01:26:46.760
<v Speaker 2>And that's sort of similar to what we could be seeing here, because there's something about these beings, according to these reports, they're not just like scary government dudes.

01:26:47.210 --> 01:26:48.079
<v Speaker 2>There's something about them.

01:26:48.081 --> 01:26:49.609
<v Speaker 2>That's other worldly and not right.

01:26:49.670 --> 01:26:57.829
<v Speaker 2>And so, you know, I don't know that's going to be a whole nother thing, but like the men and black part to me is like the most eerie of the whole thing.

01:26:58.699 --> 01:26:59.180
<v Speaker 2>It's like, okay.

01:26:59.180 --> 01:27:02.029
<v Speaker 2>Even if it is a tulpa, how do they interact here?

01:27:02.239 --> 01:27:03.590
<v Speaker 2>Or did they just come to this?

01:27:03.591 --> 01:27:05.659
<v Speaker 2>Because there's all these sightings.

01:27:05.661 --> 01:27:11.100
<v Speaker 2>And they felt like they needed to control the situation that the TOPA had broke open, you know, clearly

01:27:11.100 --> 01:27:19.229
<v Speaker 3>Just because there's been so many visitations and so many of the same questions asked, the only reason they're going is because their stupid middle management boss tells

01:27:19.350 --> 01:27:20.279
<v Speaker 2>Them to yeah.

01:27:20.520 --> 01:27:21.869
<v Speaker 2>You know, being, being

01:27:22.649 --> 01:27:32.130
<v Speaker 3>The skeptic in most things, this I think is the most, I want to believe topic that we've, we've done so far.

01:27:32.699 --> 01:27:33.149
<v Speaker 2>Yay.

01:27:33.180 --> 01:27:34.140
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's exciting.

01:27:34.170 --> 01:27:35.640
<v Speaker 2>That feels like a milestone.

01:27:35.729 --> 01:27:36.149
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

01:27:36.840 --> 01:27:47.189
<v Speaker 3>Cause it, it broke a lot of, um, skepticism is a huge integral part to believing this in the first place.

01:27:47.369 --> 01:27:52.079
<v Speaker 3>It's not just like a, and here are the facts and take it or leave it.

01:27:52.560 --> 01:27:52.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

01:27:52.649 --> 01:27:59.579
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's these things, they feel supernatural because they're scientifically unknowable.

01:28:00.000 --> 01:28:00.300
<v Speaker 3>Right.

01:28:00.359 --> 01:28:10.319
<v Speaker 3>You know, uh, we're, we're, we're dealing with multiple planes of existence that, uh, have correlations to mathematical equations.

01:28:10.649 --> 01:28:10.949
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

01:28:11.880 --> 01:28:21.479
<v Speaker 3>It, for me that adds the most credibility, as opposed to like this, this is an account of these certain mediums that can apparently contact

01:28:21.479 --> 01:28:21.899
<v Speaker 2>The dead.

01:28:22.289 --> 01:28:22.739
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

01:28:23.010 --> 01:28:24.090
<v Speaker 2>I feel the same way.

01:28:24.091 --> 01:28:27.390
<v Speaker 2>I feel like there's something about this that just hits again, hits a little different.

01:28:27.449 --> 01:28:36.810
<v Speaker 2>It feels a little more, even though I'm a believer in paranormal and things like that, it feels a little heavier, I guess that's the right word that I've been looking for this whole episode, something about this feels heavier.

01:28:37.140 --> 01:28:46.350
<v Speaker 2>And the fact that this is like the only cryptid, uh, that I'm aware of that has this, like this much intensity before I'm behind it.

01:28:46.350 --> 01:28:46.470
<v Speaker 2>Right.

01:28:46.470 --> 01:28:47.760
<v Speaker 2>It's not just a moth man.

01:28:47.761 --> 01:28:48.720
<v Speaker 2>It's not just Bigfoot.

01:28:49.020 --> 01:28:50.340
<v Speaker 2>It's UFO sightings.

01:28:50.579 --> 01:28:56.609
<v Speaker 2>It's the, the men in black it's, Talpaz, it's this like whole thing is cracked open.

01:28:56.610 --> 01:28:59.670
<v Speaker 2>And it ends with like this actual tragedy, right?

01:28:59.671 --> 01:29:11.399
<v Speaker 2>This bridge claps in this town where all of the has happened to for hundreds of years in this town, 50 people died in seconds, like this terrifying, awful, horrifying tragedy.

01:29:11.880 --> 01:29:13.260
<v Speaker 2>That is totally real.

01:29:13.261 --> 01:29:19.199
<v Speaker 2>And, you know, and so there's something about it that is just like very heavy, the whole story itself, you know?

01:29:19.201 --> 01:29:23.460
<v Speaker 2>And, and we should also, you know, hopefully we're being respectful of that too.

01:29:23.579 --> 01:29:24.899
<v Speaker 2>And the lives that were lost in that.

01:29:24.900 --> 01:29:25.890
<v Speaker 2>But I agree.

01:29:25.890 --> 01:29:30.840
<v Speaker 2>There's something about it that feels more important maybe than other fun topics that we cover.

01:29:31.170 --> 01:29:31.949
<v Speaker 2>Thank you guys.

01:29:31.951 --> 01:29:37.229
<v Speaker 2>Listen, I know this one was meandering at times, but thank you guys so much for being here.

01:29:37.230 --> 01:29:39.750
<v Speaker 2>I'm really excited by this.

01:29:39.751 --> 01:29:42.270
<v Speaker 2>And, uh, we're really excited to talk to John C.

01:29:42.270 --> 01:29:45.750
<v Speaker 2>Cook from Fidel about this further for his sort of, uh, take on.

01:29:45.751 --> 01:29:50.640
<v Speaker 2>So, you know, he's had some sightings and experiences, so it'll be fun to talk to him about that.

01:29:50.640 --> 01:29:55.380
<v Speaker 2>And end ended on a higher note, but thank you guys so much for being here.

01:29:55.500 --> 01:29:57.779
<v Speaker 2>We really appreciate it until next time.