Jumanji (1995) & Jumanji (2017) with Brodie Reed

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Speaker 1: On the dol Cast. The questions asked if movies have women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hi, welcome to the Bechdel Cast. Hi, I'm Jamie Lofts. Hi, I'm Caitlin Durante. And there's also a dog in the room. We might have heard. Excuse you, what if we were fighting and you were just saying that they really mean about me. There's also a stupid dog. Aristotle's dog is here. His name is Jeff. We don't there's two. We're outnumbered today. Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of negative energy communal. Well, there's also this is the last podcast that we are recording in this location. Yes, so it's sad. It's sad. Brodie just clapped, but it's actually I was Okay, So we are unfortunately not gonna be recording at Meltdown anymore. Rest in power. So we are the Bechtel Cast. We talk about the portrayal and representation of women in cinema from a feminist lens. Okay, yeah, it's good. It's good to remember what we talked about sometimes because everyone in our reviews are like what it takes so long for them to get to the point. Anyways, rab review our podcast on iTunes and say whatever you want. Yeah, but try to be nice anyway, So even exciting theme today theme. Yeah, this is an ambitious episode. This is the first time we've tackled two movies at once. Yes, and here's our guest, fist pumping into the gas. So ready, she's so ready. So our our guest today. He is a very funny comic and we should check out his videos on his website. Brodie read yea the plug you asked videos on my website. You guys, remember those dot com dot com I love the dot coms. It's great to be here. This is the first time I ever recorded a podcast and the first of you're gonna gibling. I'm going to come in here when it's condas and continue to record this podcast. That's right, We're being turned into conduct. We're going to be so rich by then we can just open up our own studio in the condo that we own on this block. Yeah, welcome the back to grow our located community. It's our Yeah, it's our scary Stepford community where we record our podcast. So, Brodie, you when we were asking you what movies a few movies you might want to discuss, and then you had said Jumanji, either the old one or the new one, and then we got an idea, why why sho? I was hoping you guys would do this really opening my heart of hearts. Like when I said could be either, I was like, what if they pick so welcome to that Jumanji versus Jumanji episode I could we could put in a little like a or not and just leave this descriptions. But to be clear, I'm rooting for both movies equally. Okay, so Jumanji and Jumanji. I've seen exactly two thirds of one of these movies. Actually it was save closer to one half because with obviously from here on out spoiler alert, I just went to see Jumanji the new one with my movie Pastil, and I didn't have time to see the whole thing. I'm like, oh, yes, stay told Nick Johnny shows up, So I stay for an hour. Nick john shot up and like, thank god he's here, but I have to leave. Didn't miss much? Yeah, no, I I got a starmaking performance. Wow, Wow, but we are and we're off. Nick Jonas is a star, very talented. Yeah, I came running. Yeah, So Brodie, when did you first see M Did you grow up with the original origin? I was born in eighty eight, so I was a straight up nineties kid. Um definitely hit me at a time, like I would say, close to like space jam of just like this movie was just destined to be in my life from like an early point. I've definitely seen it on TV or otherwise probably ten times or so, and it's just like ingreen into my memory. And as I was like looking up this movie to remember stuff for the podcast, I was like, it wasn't as like critically well received as I I had. It's like a perfect movie and as like fifty A Pricent and Run Tomatoes or something, Yeah, the same thing. The new one was pretty well reviewed, which was and you know what, I loved it. I loved the Well anyways, what's your experience with Jumanjika? So it came out in when I was like nine years old. It was the exact right age to just be obsessed with this movie. Bitch Bitch on thirty one. I love it And I saw this movie dozens of times growing up, and I probably haven't didn't watch it for a good two decades or so, but this was a huge movie from my childhood. My family would yell at me because all I would do is just explain the plot to them, and they're like, yeah, Caitlin, we've seen it. It's a pretty there's a lot of story, but there's a lot going on. There's a lot going on in the first Jumanji. I have lots of questions. I never I was too young to see Jumanju when it came out, and then I think when I was getting older, my this is just like one of those weird movies where my mom's like it seems inappropriate, or we just we just didn't watch. We were not a Jumanji home. We were a Titanic home. When we're at home, we're not a Jumanji home. So I saw it obviously this morning, this morning, immediately before I got here. Do you even watch the Jumanji cartoon? No, we didn't watch that either. I didn't know. I knew there was a cartoon, but what was what was the cartoon about? Was it like it was far removed? It wasn't far removed at all. It was about the Allen character who lived in the jungle. It was just about them, like going to the jungle lad he lived in. So it was like animated that time. Betwe I don't remember this cartoon at all. Oh it was. It was really cool because instead of being in the real world and having the jungle come to there, they were just like in the jungle, Baul, not unlike not unlike the Jumanji Welcome to the Jungle two thousand seventeen. That's good. And there's also that movie or a space oh story that was like this is the spiritual sequel to jumon about that movie, and it kind of was. It was it was okay, it was like space Jumanji. Yeah, I never saw it. It was very moody and weird. It was a little too moody. Yeah, Christen Stewart was the lead. It was a little too moody for a fun movie. You can't just be like, Christian Stewart's the lead and it's a really fun movie. Yeah, he is, like, well, first of all, very like a dangerous movie and a very fun movie. Extremely Yeah, it's why. Yeah. The Roger a review of this movie the original Jumanji. He said it is a gloomy special effects extravaganza filled with grotesque images generating fear and despair one point five out of four. I it is you've eber to narc He's looking dweam listen. I love him, but he's wrong. He's wrong a lot. Well, even in when c G I was pretty brand new, I knew that the c G I in this movie was terrible. I was like, as a nine year old, I was like, oh God, this is bad, and I hope it gets better. We're a good mix of special in practical effects. Yeah. I liked the lion. Oh, I hated them. The monkeys were uncanny. Valley as hell that was. I was like, this is no one knows where to look. The islands insane. They're like looking across the room and it's like look a monkey, and it's like somewhere else. It's all over the place. So wait, okay, so let's tackle this. Will go old Jumanji, New Jumanji than Jumanji versus Drumandi Ultimate Ultimate show Down, which is the superior Rumandi the twist. It's okay, there's a lot of great things about the first Jumanji. It's weird. I feel like I enjoyed the first Jumanji more, but but they were both so fun and the second one is like I feel like richer and like I don't, I don't know. There was like there's they're both good. They're both good, and they're wildly different. They're wildly different, extreme, like it's decades removed in its shows, like the people who made the first one had nothing to do with people who made the second one. And I still like both of them. But it's still all dudes. That is something that is the new Drumanji. It is kind of wild, like how it was written by four dudes, was directed by dudes, produced by three dudes, and it's still not the worst, like it does well, but it's still I was so hope. I was like, oh, there's four writers, all dudes. They asked their girlfriends at some point, Okay, they're like, can you read this draft and let me know if it's problematic because it doesn't pass a battel test and Jack Black is a woman. We had a lot of people tweeting at this when this movie came out, and there was a whole discussion and so dive into get there that later first Trumanji, I have to say, my favorite part of the first Trumanji is the fact that Lilith from Fraser is in it. Aunt Nora, Baby new Worth, Baby, that's Lilith. I didn't watch that show that much. He never gets see baby new look not extremely severe and yelling at Kelsey Grammar and it you know, it was great, it was great. Now she was just she's kind of caffeying out in this movie. She's kind of like at you know, like kind of running around like where where the orphans kind of thing. But I like her and I shipped her in the Police Officer David. Yeah, I was like, Oh, they had the smallest of moments and you're just like I would watch that sect. This movie is David Ellen Greer's whole career to me personally, Like, I know, he's got a rich career. I've seen none of nothing else, not even dag on NBC or whatever. Now, No, I haven't seen Dad. I've seen a little bit of, you know, in Living Color that I can remember in Black Man and stuff, and but I mean, this is good. This is David Ellen Greer hot. Let's just get that. Pretty much a hot man in this movie hot. He's you know, he's Okay, should we do the recount, Yeah, let me do that, having a panicy We're all we don't we're doing two movies and we don't even really have a handle. Youre are like Nigel Billings, you are Darby or right Star. Yeah. I was happy to see him in that movie. There's too much to talk about today, Okay we start Jumanji. Loure begins in basically nineteen sixty nine, where a young kid named Alan Parrish has a daddy who is not very nice to him. And but and it's a daddy daddy. He owns a factory, a shattery, and somehow they're informously wealthy. Yes, daddy played by the guy who plays Mr Ismay and Titanic totally didn't. Really, you're killing it with the recognizing people in Titanic, I'm forgetting. This takes place in New England at a shoe factory, which I literally do think is a reference to my hometown, brock to Massachusetts. I don't know if you've ever seen my toadbag I carry everywhere that says brock to Massachusetts, the shoe city. But there was at one time in my hometown only shoe factories, and now there's they're all abandoned buildings. It's a troubled place, but there's still one shoe factory open called foot Joy check it out dot com. And I want you to know I have a respect for cobbling in all kinds of shoemaking. It's I'm from a cobbling town. And so immediately it was resonating. And then they say New England. I was just like, yeah, this takes place in like Brantford, New Hampshire, Rockton, Massachusetts, the shoe city home of Rocky Marciano, so Allen Parish. He's like getting bullied and his dad's all like, you need to be more of a man. And he discovers not far from the shoe factory, this like board game and he's like one cool wooden board games a wooden board game. It looks expensive. It's a hot prop. Its prop shouts out to the prop guy a woman, yeah, sorry, or non binary person. We don't know who made the prople don't know. They didn't have non binary back at me? Was the prop master? We don't know. So he brings home his board game Jumanji and his friend Sarah comes over and they're like, well, what if we just play the game that we found mysteriously. Uh yeah, there's drums beating. It's like it's tense, so only kids can hear the drums. It's like the Polar Express, but not bad. So they start playing this game and right away they realize it's not like other board games. Oh I know, Manic Pixie dreamboard game it is. It's like have my handcrafted little figurine of my own. It's something you'd find on Etsy. Right, So there's something was sterious about this game, and it's like, you know, bad things come out of it. There's bats all of a sudden, and then Alan Parish gets sucked into the game and the girl Sarah runs away. She streaked out. She doesn't know what to do. Are you not a strong female protagonist if you can't handle a house full of bats? Right? Yeah, he dumb bell. She gets a chancer herself. Twenty six years past, six years passed. Wrap that around your brain, Alan, it's referenced that. Okay, I have a serious plot question. I can't tell how much of this was true or how much of it was like speculation on the part of the guy. This is a bow is second of all, No, there's like a part where they imply that, like everyone thinks that Alan's dad killed him and chopped him up in a bit and hit him around the house. So did his dad like go to pray? Is it? No? So he just in theory everyone thought he murdered someone and got away with it. It was just like him yelling at him at the shoe factory when he ruined the machine, like he's got motive he yelling, Well he did. I mean that is actually kind of like when he was insisting that Alan get his ass kicked to build character. I'm like, maybe he is, no, but daddy could never kill No. So yeah, he just disappears and then you know, they never figured out what happened to him, and then his parents die in or something like that. You see the gravestone, so it was a murders suicid. They don't address that in the pot, just that's The next twenty six years passed and there's now a new family moving into the big parish mansion again. They are millionaires and they got their fortune from their shoe factory. Lilith. The aunt, whose name is Aunt Nora in the movie, is a different um. Wait what okay? And the person Dones and the voice of Tales from Son Yeah and Chip from the Beast. Oh oh, okay, I depressed. Okay, So those characters names are Judy and Peter, and they're like, I don't know, twelve ish and nine ish will say, and their sister and brother and their parents died in a tragic car accident. No, they went to go skiing, but they died in a car on the way. You're freaking facts. That's way more interesting. They're okay. So they moved into the house with their aunt Nora, and they discover the board game Jumanji that had been left behind. There's drums. They're like, what are the what's the source of these drums? So they go up into the attic and they find this board game and they start playing it. But the two pieces that were used by Sarah and al In in nineteen sixty nine we're still there. So they're like, what's this all about. They started some some mosquitoes show up, some monkeys show up, and they're like, I think this came out of the game. What's happening? And then little Peter rolls five or an eight remembers a five, and then Alan Parish as a twenty six years later, as Robin Williams shows up and he's been living in the jungle this whole time. What a twist. What a twist. So they're like, oh my god, you need to help us play this game because it's scary and these like monkeys and mosquitoes are scary, and he's like, no, I just finally got out. I'm not going to do more Jumanji stuff. This is so this whole sequence is so sad, first of all, as in most Robin Williams movies, and in spite of the fact that this is a very like complex, interesting plot, Robin Williams, I feel like you just just like in his contract, he's like, I'm going to be shouting warty percent of the time. A lot a lot of very sad dialogue is screamed. But they're like, he comes out, he thinks he's still nine, which is confusing because even a nine year old would know that they were like fourty. But whatever he would have gone through, he went through puberty and most of his adulthood in the jungle by himself. Yeah, he's never kissed a girl. WHOA I didn't even think of that level. Yeah, yeah, probably is never fucked. He loses his virginity to an extremely adult Bonnie Hunt that's wild, but he like tears through the town, finds out his parents are dead, like just like all these horrible things, and then the kids are like gaslighting him into continuing to play this board game that ruined his life, which he agrees to do, and then they find out, oh, there's still another player. We need to go track down Sarah, who has turned into this like psychic mystic type person, and she has like suppressed the memory of Alan disappearing all those years ago, and then all of a sudden, now she's like, oh, like the thing that I had to convince myself was not real, it's real. So they finally all sit down and start playing, and then all this other crazy stuff comes out of the game. There's the Lion, there's some quicksand there's a hunter who untas colonialists played by the Dad. There's an earthquake, there's a monsoon, um a stampede. Yeah, so they're, you know, dealing with all these obstacles that are coming out of the game, and then the way to make it all go away is the first token to reach like the center of the game, and they call out Jumanji, and then it's all over that ends up happening. They win, all the stuff gets sucked back into the game, and there's like some Danue mall at the end where right, um, young Allen is like, how do any degrees do you have? Yeah? So then young Allen is like, oh, we're young again, and I can like appreciate my dad, who was also mean to me. But when I still doesn't super like very at the end, suddenly becomes a very good guy and it's like, actually, boys can cry and you don't have to go to boarding school. I love you, and you're just like, where did this come from? Daddy? Are you? I think Daddy is drunk and that you just got like sauced up, and he's like, actually, feelings are fine, gotta go. So then while they're still young, Allen and Sarah dump the Jumanji board game into a river, and then the last shot of the movie, we I think are to believe that it washed up ashore in a different country, because in France and somewhere in my bed. Um So that is pretty much where Jumanji Welcomed to the Jungle. Two thousand seventeen picks up where a guy who is running on the beach still in Brantford, New Hampshire, finds lodged in the sand the board game juman Jeanie brings it home to his son, and his son is like, oh, who plays board Metallica? I'm all about video games. So then Jumanji transforms itself into a video game. I love that. I think that I that I love it. Yeah, it really is. It makes Jumanji just like this kind of like science fiction. Like it's like this like like predator monster thing that takes whatever form it needs to and that changes everything, which is like, if we're to believe Jumanji that smart, wouldn't it be doing something different? Is like officially like an evil thing. It's not just an animal. Jumand is a straight up animal. Can turn into a video game. And also so it changes into a video game, but it's still like not a video game that they super want to play. They're like this VideA is old. I'm like, why didn't turn into a better video game. It turns into the kid who finds who's like, oh, this is like right up my alley, and then he gets sucked into the game, and then twenty years pass right, twenty years passed and it has been gone for that amount of time. And then we're in present day circle two thousand and seventeen and there's a group of four teenagers who all get detention. Um it is Bethany, Martha Spencer, and Fridge. Fridge a nerd, a jack hot girl, hot popular girl, and just a girl who hasn't figured out who she is. She's kind of grumpy, needs to discover herself by being in a ridiculously hot body. That's how she's going to find herself. Right on Fridge. They all get detention and they find Jumanji the video game and they're like, well, what if we do this instead of there like detention duties. So they start playing the video game and they noticed that one of the characters is already taken, so they take the other four and then they all get sucked into the video game and end up in Jumanji the Jungle. Yeah, they all pick very specific characters to play. Yes, it's very important, and they don't totally know what these people look like. They just go based on their descriptions of like what their skills are, brave or you know, knows maps and stuff. And then they just jump into this world where their bodies are completely different, and then they're played by the highest paid celebrities in all the land. So a nickel for every time The Rock pokes his own muscle in this movie and sounds so strong. I love it every time, like he's having so much fun and we love him. And if you don't love the Rock, you're violent psychopath. It's strange how this really stupid divide used to see celebrities on screen is like, I don't know, like, yeah, every time he flexes, you're like fun. Yeah, I like that nerd flex right, It's great though, It's like, man, I know it's great. So Spencer's the nerdy kid. He turns into Dr Smolder Bravestone played by The Rock, um Fridge turns into Franklin Finnbar played by Kevin hard Bethenny turns into Shelley Oberon played by Jack Black, and Martha turns into Ruby Roundhouse played by Karen Gillen. Right, So this is our new cast that we're following for most of the movie, and basically they are tasked with returning this. It's basically the plot of Mowanna. There's a green precious stone. I kept writing to this hard flubber that too, they've got a rock of flubber. We've got to get to a second flubber, some old flobber, and they have to return it to this jaguar statue to lift this curse that has been plaguing the jungle for some time because this evil dude named Russell van Pelt. Van Pelt is also the name of the man Hunter from the first Jumanchy Hot ref so um, They're given this green stone and they have to return it to the Jaguar. That's their mission throughout the rest of the movie. So they kind of barely matters it really. Yeah, it's more about their like friendship and teamwork and all that stuff. So they have like different strengths and weaknesses. And then they eventually meet up with Nick Jonas's character, who is the kid who got sucked into the game in six What a cool guy. The while the okay, the best part. One of my favorite parts about the marketing for Jumachy is that the main billboard for this movie, and I guess it's sort of a twist that Nick Jonas shows up, but it wasn't enough of a twist to justify this. The people on the big billboards for Dumaji are Jack Black, The Rock, Kevin Hart, Karen Gillen, and there is a fifth spot. It's an alligator. Nick Jonas not invited to the postern. There were separate you got literally gopaced c g I alligator was like, that is fucking that is cold blooded, Nick Jonas. Like the first couple of days it was in the ears and it was like a genuine surprise for like the whole thing. Jonas. People were collectively like, uh okay, like a whole it was awesome. So many people were whispering like wait, who's that Like Nick Jonas was like, oh, doesn't do so anyway, they you know, they go through all these different levels at the game, and there's these bad guys after them, and there's different obstacles they have to overcome, and then they finally at the end returned the flubber, the fossilized clubberd the Jaguar, and then they call out Jumanji and then they returned back to their normal lives in Brantford, New Hampshire. Right in Brockton. They literally took the b R. I really think that that's anyways, and then they meet up with this kid Alex who is now Colin Hanks, which I buy. Nick Jonas to Colin Hanks. Well, Nick Jonas is the avatar, so none that the avatars looked like the actual but still but still still but even Metallica kid kind of looked like Nick Jonath k looks like yeah, I mean they're all like black haired, white kids. Anyway. Yeah, so that's pretty much the end of the movie. They're all like, oh my God. And then there's like a subplot where Spencer likes Martha and they like each other and then they get together at the end kissing, and there's kissing. Okay, So, um, now do we talk about all of the women in both movies? I don't know how to do this. Let's just start with version and then we'll go from there. I mean, there's what five between them? Yeah, there's women total, not a ton. Okay, if we're going Jumanji versus Jumanji, which would you say has the stronger portrayal of female characters because I I okay, well, let me talk through this because Okay. So in the first movie, the main characters are Judy and Sarah Whittle, and for the most part, there's generally although it's not totally balanced but sort of equal, like male characters doing stuff to like save the day or get themselves out of a sticky situation and female characters doing the same. I would say Peter gets several big moments and Judy gets almost none. Then, of course, like Robby Williams is like doing stuff all over the place, and then to a lesser extent, to a lesser extent, Bonnie Hunt's character Sarah is doing stuff. So I think there's more the male characters driving the story and kind of saving the day. But also the female characters aren't necessarily dams old that much because they're all saving each other right consistently. Even watching as a kid, I was like, this is an equal This is a good group. Ain't the team? Yeah, Like they do function as a team, right, I don't know, there is Like I agree that like Judy and Sarah, Like I would have liked to see Judy and Sarah talk to each other more. There are plenty of opportunities and they do, Like I get that one of kind of like one of the stronger themes in the first year Mondi movie is like, don't pump your young son full of toxic masculinity, which is kind of cool because of you know, daddy and the whole thing. So we see a lot of like Alan and Peter, I think for that reason, and of like, oh, now Alan's daddy aged and he's telling a kid to you know, nut up and then he's like no, I'm sorry. He's like, wait, no, I don't want to become my dad. Teeny six years in the jungle, and I still became my daddy because he's a whole I forgot to at some point because he tries to cheat and then he turns into a wolf boy. Yeah, well those are the rules of herma. I love the wolf Boy. It's really good. My favorite the part that sticks in my brain the most is when Alan pulls Peter aside and he just like rips. It's such a dumb scene. Judy, it's weird because she's kind of set up to be kind of like a more complex of like, oh, she's processing her parents death in a weird way where the first time we hear her talking about her parents death, she's like laughing, where she's like yeah, and it was so much like she's kind of like being silly about She's also like make being a lot of ship up about them. She's yeah, she's like she's got a big imagination and she's just like lying to strangers about it. Right, She's not, She's not like the other orphans. She's making fun of her parents death. I mean that's the kind of anxiet identifying with its like she's a creative type. Well, there's an interesting dynamic with that, like brother sister duo, which we see a similar situation in Jurassic Park, where it's an older sister, older blonte sister, younger, darker haired brother. And because I think we can assume the sister is a little bit older, she's doing more of like I'm going to protect my younger brother. I'm gonna do more stuff, I'm gonna take more action. And I thought we were going to see more of that in this movie as well, but kind of drops off in the middle. It does. Yeah, the first challenge that comes out of the game is the mosquitoes, and in that scene, Peter is like keeled over, he's hiding, he's scared, he's not doing anything, but um, Judy like grabs a tennis racket and starts like hitting the mosquitoes out of the window. So she's active in that scene, but after that she isn't doing a whole lot to contribute to the events of the story. But like I mentioned a moment ago, there's several scenes where like Peter has this big moment where he either gets the game back after the pelican took it away, or he gets rid of van Pelt in the store by like launching a canoe at him, or he goes and gets the axe and then uses it to chop some spiders away. So he's like doing all these things. It's like saving people or like having a big redeeming moment, whereas Judy like doesn't get any moments like that. Really, yeah, because it's like she's set up as a character who's like they're the kids are grieving in different ways. It's interesting, but her art definitely kind of falls off in the middle. There's one they sort of try to like lazily tie it up where at one point she's like in Jumanji, injures her somehow and she's like, hey, you know, and then like Peter goes over here and she's like, actually, really, I am sad our parents died. I'm like, wow, you only had to be assaulted by a board game to be like, I'm sad our parents are dead, and that's sort of where she drops off. I feel like the more interesting choice, and also a better use of the Sarah character would have been to give them similar moments of like Robin. I almost get why Robin Williams is like bonding with Peter more and and all that, because he's used Peter as himself. But it's like Sarah and Judy could have had moments like that, you know, we could have had, you know, maybe a stampede last or something. By the time we're at the end of the movie and they see the kids again after the years or whatever, and then they like, it's like kind of an emotional moment because they could finally get to see him again. That part, I'm like, looking at Sarah, I'm just like, I guess she got to know him, like at parts we didn't see, you know what I mean in between, Yeah, like they don't know each other as adults at all. This movie is also very weird, like chain reaction of various people triggering other traumas of other characters the whole movie. Like everyone, like the kids are like dealing with the recent death of their parents, Robin Williams pops out and they're like, actually, you have to stay near this thing that oppressed you for twenty six years, and he's like, rats, I guess they do. And then they go find Bonnie Hunt. She women be fainting, passes out. They clearly without her consent, totoroer to a second location. You know how you're just taking unconscious person without their permission to a second location. They bring her to the house and then she is like, fully like losing it under She's like calling her psychiatrist was like and it's like it's a weird, like not very nineties attitude towards women going to therapy of like, oh, that's kind of like stupid, Like she's kind of crazy. Yeah, yeah, like what a you know? She she goes to therapy because something's wrong with her, and then they're like, you know, the most upsetting moment of your life, you have to stay. And also Sarah's character, I'm like, she, I understand why Alan is a cartoon character, right, because he's been trapped in a board game jungle for a quarter century. Sarah, I don't understand why. She's like, you know what, let's involve two random children. She doesn't ask any of the questions. Yeah, I mean, that would have been a longer movie at that point. But I I was like, man, there's no there's no reference to the fact, like these are not their kids, and well they have to they all have to play now because they're all to play a game, which I guess it's good that the movie requires there to be two female characters, like the narrative is like, oh, well, we wrote it this way, so there has to be these two women, because a lot of movies don't bother to require there to be women there, including the majority of the second Jumanji movie. There's no portrayal of women in the first Rumanji where I was like, oh, this is bad, but there's just it just was like all just like under used or missed opportunities, and like, I mean, you know, I feel that way about most black characters in movies, so totally. But David Alinger is used a great effect. He is in every era of this movie. He's I love I love him when he's making his shoe. Oh yeah, yeah, it's great. Yeah. So the first jumach I mean it's very of the time. We're in the mid nineties. You know, filmmakers weren't like, oh, we got to make sure we're servicing our female character as well. So time I think it does. Okay, it does. Okay, Yeah, but fast forward to two thousand and seventeen. But every should we not talking about thetel test with the first one or should we do it all at once? I don't know. I don't. Let's what are the rules we're making this up. Let's do it now. Okay, So the first one I think does pass the Betel test. Yes, I agree. There's a scene where Aunt Nora and then we learned the real Estates lady's name after she has died, after she got bitten by a mosquito. She looks very dead. She looks dead alive in the New Time one, but Judy says, isn't that Mrs Thomas the realtor. So we find out her name and she and Aunt Nora have a conversation about the house that Mrs Thomas is showing. Everybody and Judy have a conversation where there was a one line exchange the past where she wasn't talking about Derty right wherever right, Yeah, because they're like, oh, I'm gonna put a bar over here, and she's like that sounds lovely. You're and your kids are going to be very happy, and she's like, actually their orphans. It's just like, actually, your realtor doesn't need to know that, but cool. Judy and Nora talk a few different one line exchanges between them, and then Judy and Sarah, but not that much. Well, there's a scene between Judy and Nora where Judy is like, we found out why you got this house so cheap. A child was murdered here, and Aunt Nora's like, I'm sick and tired of all your lies. You're grounded, and then she's just like, find there's nothing to do in this stupid town of Bracton, Massachu sits anyway, and she's right, and f I I it wasn't alive, but I don't know. Alan Parrish does get mentioned because she's like, oh Alan Parish got murdered. Yeah, but there were two lines there, Yeah, there were Okay, so yeah that I would say passes, and then later on Judy and Sarah. Judy says what's going on and then Sarah's Oh, they're right outside that like discount supermarket store, and Sarah's like, oh, apparently there's a sale going on. I don't know if that's supposed to be joked that, but it didn't land for me. And then some monkeys go by. It was flush. They are the only characters who know what's happening in the store first term. Maybe they see just chaos happening and they're like, it's a sale. It's like, no, it's all the ship that you unleashed from this game. Anyway. I think that was some like capitalism humor, like sales are crazy because people are always shopping. Speaking of there is well get to that in a second. So um. Then three monkeys go by on a motorcycle and Sarah says, did you just see three monkeys go buy on a motorcycle? And Ud He's like yes, And then Sarah says, good girl passes the Bechdel tests. It sure does not tritting down too. I also think there's commentary, not a deliberate but it feels as though as a statement is being made retroactively, where whenever Van Pelt goes to try to buy a gun in the store, in the gun shop, he's like, I need to acquire a new firearm and the guy's like, oh, well, there's a waiting period, and you're going to have to fill out some forms. And then Van Pelt dumps a bunch of like ancient coins in front of the guy and he's like, or I could fill these out, And then they gave him this like insane assault rifle right away. And I feel like that's a commentary on how easy it is to get very dangerous weapons in this country. I think it's a commentary then even maybe mean to make right like that might have just been like this is how it is, because this is from the same director who directed Honey, I Shrunk the Kids and Captain America The First Avenger. Interesting, a long, illustrious career, he's had interesting good for him, white guy, if you can believe it, I can't. Yeah, directed, but he started a lot of good movies. Does it pass the factual test if it's baby and you worth screaming at monkeys? Um, yes, I'm going to say the monkeys are screaming On that one. Monkeys are screaming, and they could be talking about men, right, The monkeys are certainly talking about they could be m r. Monkey. We don't know. You're right, You're right, you're right. That was just a question I had, sure I appreciate the tough questions you're asking. Thank you. Oh another thought on the first one, what if this is the prequel to Flubber, because then pan theory, okay, phan theory. We see them, they're married, my hunt Rob Williams at the end, and they're like, we rescued your parents. Weird joke at the end of like we're gonna save your parents from dying. Hilarious. I actually thought that was like, but then we don't know, we don't know what like Alan does for a living, do we does he say he needs he needs their dad's like marketing expertise for flubber, for flubbers, okay, ship Okay, so cheesy. It's so supposed to be, like they need to be marketing this new consumer product flubber. Also, flabber does not hold up. I've never seen a flubber. That's fine, I haven't. I haven't seen flubber in at least ten years. Well, yeah, please don't mention flabber in my presence. Just have been triggered by a mention of flabber. Both this Jumanji and the two seventeen Jumanji have several cats. There's a lion in the first one. There's some jaguars in the second one, and I just want to take this opportunity. No, but cats, cats do have eight nipples. This has been cat Facts with Caitlin Juma. Would I don't know if Alfre Millonnette could he could be in Jemagic, I think he could be. He could have been daddy. I think he would be. He would have been a great daddy. I think he would have been a good van in the new one, Oh, he would have. He would have been a good daddy there too. Even though Van Pell doesn't like daddy like he's given those vibes. He's like a lot of daddy daddy heavy. There's I mean, like both of these movies kind of have these overarching themes of like what does it mean to be a man? What is a real man? Like? That's because it's written by a bunch of frothy dudes. Well, that's one of the things I wanted to mention in the first movie. So Alan's mother is present and there. But if there's a dad and a son, usually in movies only that relationship gets explored like the father son relationship, and the mother is often totally sidelined or just like not even bothered to be written into the scenes insanely so where in this movie. I don't even think the mom finishes a sentence successfully one time, where Daddy's always like, actually, you dumb bitch, get in the car. Like it's just like, oh no, we don't know what her name is, we don't know anything, right, So yeah, that was there could have been an opportunity for, you know, some mother son relationship exploration. But of course Monte was written by the same author as The Polar Express. Chris van Alsberg is addicted to sounds that children can hear the adults can't. He's recycling material. Lazy, stupid, hot ache, Chris, Kiss my ass? Is he still alive? He's still alive. Kiss my ass. I'll fight you. Is there anything another last thing about the first movie? Um, Sarah tries to surprise kiss Alan when they are adults. She just trying to surprise kiss him. Well, she leans in for a kiss and rejects her. I would say that's not a surprise, okay. I'd say that she made an offer and he made a refusal, and she accepted that decision. She didn't Brendan Fraser and the Mummy lungeon through a cage. But then they do share a kiss at the end when they're both like twelve, and she's like, I want to do something before I feel like too much of a kid. That's weird, and then she kisses him and he's all, that's yeah, but yeah. So then they do share a kiss, and uh, it's fine. I mean, I don't know, it's obviously the first movie is very white and HEATERO. There's a lot. It's very I think four it does, it does all right, and it's a fun movie. It's a fun movie. Do we move on to the second one? I let's do it, okay, I mean this movie said one's wild an interesting precedent where one of the so there are two female characters and two male characters in this movie. There's a Spenser and Fridge, and there's Bethany and Martha. But as soon as they turn into their avatars, which are the characters we see for the most part in the movie on screen, turns into three men and one woman. So Martha she gets into Ruby Roundhouse's avatar body, so she stays as a woman. But Bethany ends up and she comes to Jack Flag and then there's that beautiful line rate of I'm an overweight middle aged man, Jack Black says, basically looking to camera, which when you realize that it's you know, Bethany the one saying, and she's fat shaming herself. That her avatar because she's she is, but she's also stating effect, which is that Jack is an overweight, middle aged man. And I mean he's kind of fat shaming himself. Yeah, I mean as an actor. But right, there's a lot of metasta. It's very meta, and that's the world we live into as an eighteen seventeen is a meta year. Well what's even crazier than that, to me is the fact that so she is now in a male body. There's that whole scene where she has to pee. That's the scene where she says, come look at my dick, Martha, No thanks past the Bechtel test. I okay, this I don't know. This is our age old thing. Because when we talked about this before, because a lot of people were asking us about this, if whenever Jack Black's character, who is effectively a female character, talked to Martha, does that pass the Bechtel test? And I think we concluded that no, because the representation is still of a man on screen, But then why don't get through a second time? I'm now like I'm willing to see either way. When I when I didn't watch the whole movie for some like, there were a few scenes between those two characters that I didn't see the first time, and then I was like, but there there were some scenes between those two characters that I did not, like, like let me teach you how to be sexy instead of using the skills that we know you have, like ship, Like that was like, Okay, this movie is written by four dudes. But there was like other scenes where they were like getting to know each other and like getting to understand each other. And it's weird because like the four teenage characters are all badly written of like there's no shades of gray in terms of like nude Jack, weird girl, hot girl, and so it's like all these like kind of badly written characters getting a deeper understanding of badly written characters in different bodies. It's just but there was like that scene between Jack Black and Karen Gillen when they're like in the jungle and Jack Black is kind of like you know you're I thought you know they were like, we thought we hated each other, but actually we didn't, and that's good. That's like kind of a stronger like female friendship then was formed in the first movie, right, So it's so it's a mind fuck. Yeah, I'm in the camp of I still think that the character is still that girl, So I think that it does pass it. It doesn't change the fact that it's still an on screen representation of a man playing woman's character, which is essentially, you know, I don't know what the it's like a cheat code, like the Hollywood cheat code totally is, but it's played for laughs and in a more like equal worlds, then it would be cool it was the opposite maybe then maybe, well that's okay. That's that's what I was trying to grapple with because I was like, okay, well, we have a teenage girl character ending up in a male avatar body, which takes away one of the female characters that we see representation of on screen. Couldn't we then also have one of the male teens end up in a female avatar body, because that would even not the representation. But then I was like, well, what are the implications of that, because as a horny teen boy who if it's a movie, he's probably hetero, because you know, movies be very hetero. He would probably be like, oh, I'm gonna basically I don't know, assault my own poppy, Like, I don't like that could have happened. It didn't have to happen if it if that is how the story went, I'm I mean, if you gave Jack Black enough time, he would jerk because even says goodbye, or she Bethany says goodbye to her penis at the end. She's like that little dude, I say good night to my bye bye. There's I don't I don't know, so I something I thought was weird was like three of the characters when they're put into the video game are put why like everyone's out of their element physically, but they are all in different bodies if we're to be fair. But but the protagonist, Spencer is put in a body with no disadvantages or any like, is at no point like it's different and it's uncomfortable because it's different. But in terms of like skills, weaknesses, none like hot, strong, He's really not at a physical disadvantage, where in theory he upgrades right and then everyone else is like challenged by their new fleshy prison of like Fridge is suddenly small and not as strong and like you know that well, I guess it's like a well with math Suddenly I would say that's true. But like considering that, like the Jumanji methos is like it's it has to be such a team dynamic when you think about I mean like being like hot and strong and like all that stuff is sick, but really those are all like physical things ing so it comes to like if I got to read a map or if I got to figure out what poisonous is, it's like he doesn't. Those are his weaknesses, is that he needs to rely on those people. I mean, like that would be cool. If his weakness is like has to rely on people dependent depend that would be my video game weakness, good at walking long distances, And I like that how efficiently they You saw those things as jokes like eats cake, wasn't it? I like burst out laughing because I thought that he was just like I didn't know where that joke was going, and he literally I like totally saw coming. But then he's just it just happened. The whole style of this movie is completely different because it's just this like it takes place in a video game, so these bigger things can happen, and it sets up that the characters do have lives and die like multiple times before it's like, oh the last one or whatever. It is thrilling in a way that like it really does remove a lot of the danger, but it just throws a jokes in and some silly, silly death. The rock flag is shoved off a cliff, Kevin Hard explodes, Jack By, It's eaten by a hip, like lots of really violently. It's a funny movie. I really, it's a it's a fun but but like on a on a discourse level, it is like what another thing is. So we talked about this in the lot of Croft tomb Raider episode where Karen Gillen's outfit is. We can assume the movie commenting on how unreasonable like female video game characters present and how they're dressed and all that stuff. But again, I feel like that is the movie in the same way that it's like we're making jokes and acknowledging that Jack Blank is taking up the space of a female character, the way that Karen Gillen's dressed for the entirety of this movie is the movie trying to like have its cake and eat it too, where it's like we're going to acknowledge that this is like weird and it is sort of colm it's but it's challenged, it's just acknowledged. It's like mainstream feminism where people think that what people want from feminism is that like, oh, I'm a woman and I can be sexy, and it's just like there's a lot of screen time to vote it to just be confident girl the whole Yeah, that that was like the main source of like the female characters, like aside from the mind funk of Jack Black, which I just don't know that we'll get to the bottom of that. Maybe it'll just years and time and book papers will need to be written about this decision that was made. But when Bethany and Martha basically Bethany hot Instagram girl is teaching Martha who verbally abused as a gym teacher and is like deified for it. Uh, She's like, I don't like sports and I hate Jim teacher is and then the gym teachers like cried that night. But sure, but so but then there's that scene where like, I guess it's like Martha has to distract some male characters and we already know she is two male characters. We know that she is a karate master. They do throw in that weird dance thing where then the second I saw that, I'm like, that's the only thing we're going to get to see her do is the sexy thing, or that'll be the thing we see her do the most. And that's exactly what happened. Where the whole team for they're usually a good team, but there's this one moment where they're all like, Martha, you have to go be hot at those men and if you don't want to, you can do it. We've never taken on that. I mean, guys at once. It's two guys there, the rock is right there. They're like, it's there were so many options and none are acknowledged. Weird choice it was. There's there's a very very long scene where Bethany is Jack Black teaches and that's I think I played for a lot of jokes to it because it's, you know, Jack Black pretending to be this like teen Instagram model teaching her how to be, teaching her how to be desirable to a man, and Martha is not good at that, so she doesn't successfully seduce them or distract them. Really, she only accomplishes what she set out to do, which is to you know, distract them or whatever, defeat them by actually utilizing her skills and her strengths and fights. The fighting bas dances I feel like dances, but well, I don't know. I think there's a decent length scene where she is fighting three minutes to beat up to and then and they were constantly like through a little things where a male character would come out and be like, oh, it looks like you got this. Did I see that during the rock scene? No, no, yeah, the fighting was SEXI or there were moments where she's like, you know, kind of scrappy and like actually felt tough and felt like she was actually fighting and not being all objected by female action moves, which is which is a style of like there's always that move where the woman like jumps in like attaches their crutch to a guy's face and then flips him down. I'm just like, does that need to be in every movie? And like what do I feel like the way she's she fights, this kind of is kind of sexualized in a video gaming kind of way. They make her dance before she fights, They make her do this long goofy improv exercise. It just looked like an improv one on one class of a woman being forced to like goofully squish her breast together to make you know. She called their manager after that. I'm really yeah, I'm really UCB two oh one ship going on in this scene, and I just like, you can cut that scene and the movie isn't different. You can have her fight in that scene, and it's it's just that was that was some real, like mainstream movie ship that didn't need to be there. And I would argue that there's no part of that scene that is good, just a bad, bad five minute chunk in and otherwise pretty fun. I mean, how I think that it should have gone is because they do need to get into the transportation shed and there are those dudes guarding it. So I feel like it could have been the Rock and Ruby, whose skills are fighting and physical strength, so they should have approached the two guards like fought them in like hand to hand combat while the other three sneak into the shed and like get the helicopter like it didn't. It didn't need to be just her, it didn't need from knocking the guards out, could have been like ten seconds caught away just like well we did it now, or if they wanted to go into that storyline that badly. A choice that could have been made that doesn't end with like and conventional hotness saves the day is that if everyone is like, hey, go do this, Go be hot at these guys and distract them, and then we see her decide not to and you know, show her skills instead, and then they all have to be like, well, maybe we shouldn't have said that. Yeah, that would have been pretty cool. Actually. Yeah. It's like if like they did the Jack Black training thing and it's like, you know what, this is stupid, I guess, and yeah, I'm just gonna punch them in the face. Right, we can have the dry black improv scene. You know, you got this girl and ship, Yeah, and then and then as long as the takeaway is like, but that's not how you would actually resolve a problem. But I feel like that doesn't fully come across right. Hated that, Yeah, that scene could have that whole sequence could have been handled in a much more empowering way for Martha hated it. There is a moment I think shortly before that, where Spencer is consulting with Fridge and he's all like, I really, I'm really into Martha. I don't know what to do about it. And I think Fridge is like, well, she likes you, but like she's into you, and then Fridge foxdge Fridge Fox, that's been clear to us very early. One half half the cast Fox Um the Rock says what if she tries to kiss me? And then Kevin Hart says, then just kiss her back man, And then Rock says, what if she tries to kiss me without warning? Oh? You mean a surprise, kid. What I'm going to say is just ask for consent everyone. If you want to kiss someone, just you know, check in with them and see if it's okay. Anyway, good point, Thank you so much. Um Yeah, i'd uh, this is so weird. I don't know. And then Nick Jones shows up and it's like, you know, apparently I'm the only person in the world who was like, love it, keep him, he belongs here. You spend a lot of time with like the casts, who in their own right are like well sort of defined characters in like a comic way even, and then Nick comes along and he's just like, well, here I am. He just makes a bunch of jokes about that's literally all he does. There's also a moment where he's like getting introduced to all of them, and then they point to Jack Black and they're like, this is Bethany and he's like, you're a girl and she's like woman, yeah, and then Fridge says, in real life, you'd probably want to hit that, and it's like okay, So like there was a split second where she was like feeling in power and she's like I'm not a girl, and then woman like, oh, but you want to fuck her for sure. By feminist icon Kevin harn I think at the end of the day, you know, you can make the argument that Jack Black's character is is of woman because that's just an avatar that a female character is playing the game as. But at the end of the day, you still the on screen representation and is basically four dudes and one woman, because between the Rock, Kevin Hart, Jack Black, Nick Jonas, that's four dudes to the one woman figure that you see on screen, right, So it's not I mean that means that if a woman had gone into another female avatar body, that means that that actress would have been paid for that role, but instead Jack Black is the person who got that. It sucks because it's like, I love Jack Black. I think he does a good job with what he's given, feeling that that was the choice. I think he's and you usually hate Jack Black. I really, I really like Jack Like, I think he does a good job in this movie. But yeah, it's like this movie tries to have its cake and eat it too, in a way that I think will probably be a continuing trend in mainstream movies where they will try, you know, attempt to represent any sort of movement or progress while basically keeping things the same exact way. Um, I think this is a weirdly egregious example of that and kind of a wide swing on the part of this movie. I think it works in the plot, but it doesn't bode well for the world. Yeah, it works in a popcorn way, but I mean, like even side characters. I mean Restarvey's character could be a woman. Yeah, there's tons of Yeah, it's we do see two moms, we see Spencer's mom, and we do see three female teachers. Oh that's right, yeah, yeah, we none of them are given names that I noticed the same, but they're they're gym teachers, a woman. The teacher who yells at Bethany for face timing during classes of women, and then the teacher who catches Spencer and Fridge cheating is a woman. So there, this is no excuse. And then also it's tricky of like to say, like, oh, Martha and Bethany are like our trope characters, major league troope characters, but so are Spencer and Fridge. You good, You're just like characters are not very well And I think, like narratively that almost makes sense because you have to have pretty simple characters. There's so much expositions movie right where it's like, if you're going to you can't put an extremely complicated four extremely complicated characters into four different bodies and then have them get to know each other. And so I don't know, this movie is weird. Yeah, Like I see a lot of meta trends like that in like big blockbuster movie these days. Like my favorite movie from last year was Power Interest Power Interests. Wow, hot take and the same thing of like like some subversions like they have like a kid with Asperger's and stuff. But then like it's very much like I'm an angry lesbian or like I'm a I'm a jock who is dad fucking doesn't understand right, But it's still like it does work. I know, it's like for the movie, it works, but it's like it's it's confusing. This movie is confusing, And now I feel like I can fully understand why so many of our listeners were like, I'm struggling with Jumanji. Yeah, but it's it is nice to see even though they're stereotypes, they don't like treat each other super shittily, and they do solve problems in a way that I feel like it is like modern and like we're going to like get to the root if your emotional issue and then try to fix it this way. So it's like it oddly shows progress on the first movie just because it took place, you know, twenty years after, but I mean not like consciously it wasn't liked, yeah, where it's like trying to make a statement or like the male relationship definitely still takes precedence over the female friendship, but less so in the second movie. We at least see uh, friendship I think start to develop between them, and then it's kind of sold out later on. But there was that good scene that I like between Karen Gillen and Jack Black where they're like, we don't have to hate each other where it is normally assumed there's two teenage girls in a movie they hate each other or they're fighting over a boy or and that doesn't happen here, and that's nice, and they state that pretty explicitly. That's good because as I mean, as opposed to in the first Trumanji where it's like there's a sale. Good girl is very cool. Yeah, So the second Jumanji movie is just you have to watch it. It's it's a wild movie, but it works. I wonder if this will be one of those movies it just gets forgotten and no one talks about it in a couple of years ago, or do you think it's gonna remember it but they will still talk about it as a joke. Was I mean, how commercially successful was this Jumanji movie? Oh? Oh ship, Okay, you know what? Almost made a billion dollars? Yeah total, But like, holy sh it, this move been so much money that I just had, like my blood pressure just rose at seeing how much money to the Jungle. It's the type of movie that's gonna like crush in international markets. And it was in theaters for like every a million years. It was in Oh my god, this movie made so much money. That's crazy that they wouldn't put Nick Jonas on the poster. That's so violent of them to do. Oh, Nick Jonas, you know he doesn't have an acting career ahead of them. Tell you what, He's just got a rich career crushing pussy forever. Listen. Nick Jonas is gonna be fucking for a long time. He's Oh God, I used to I'm hot bragg a Jonas related bragg. My best friend, one of my best friends growing up, Lois was really into the Jonas Brothers. That's brag number one. She would drag me to Jonas Brothers concerts, even though it was more of a bread eye s girl myself. That's brag number two. But I would go because I didn't have any other friends. That's brag number three. And so there's one Jonas Brothers concert in two thousand and seven. I think we're like freshman in high school and they were filming a music video. So if you look at listener challenge. If you go to the music video for when You Look Me in the Eyes two thousand seven, you can see me in the background looking very bored and the Jonah's Brother's concerts, it is clearly me. I look the same as I did when I was fourteen. Huge brag, huge brags. Sorry about it, but you know people have to know, so congratulations. I'll put it on the Twitter. Yea, please it? Does anyone have any other thoughts about either of the juman Jees. I love any movie that cooked into like saying the name of the movie over and over throughout the movie is cooked into the title where the climax of both of these movies have to be shouting the name of the movie. I love it, I really I love it. I've want the second movie twice, and both times I did not appreciate the end beat where they were like, why isn't it working name? Oh yeah, welcome to the Jungle. No just Juma, Oh my god. Even another parallel to Mowana, where at the end of Molana is like I know your name and it's our name is Jumanji? Yeah yeah? There're that amazing moment in Titanic where they shout titan as, oh, well this was Is there a better way to end our time at the beautiful Jeff dog Jeff, Jeff simmer down cool at Jeff. No, this was the best way to do it. So let us determine whether or not Jumanji Welcome to the Jungle passes the Bactel test um. There are a few scenes where women in women identifying body. I don't know how to even okay, so hard hard to know. So where Bethany is talking to her friend Lucinda, whose name we do find out, that does not pass because they are talking about a man, and then the teacher comes up and interrupts them. But the teacher there's three different interactions or no, there's two different interactions with teachers that could pass up. The teachers have names, but they don't, but they yeah, because moments later Martha yells at her gym teacher and then gets to tention. But we never a woman shaming a woman for her profession? Does it fast the Michael test Not in this case, but it could. There is a moment when they're in detention and Martha says to Bethany, are you going to help or are you too pretty, and Bethany says I'm too pretty and that technically beth as that does fast. I had that written as like, yeah, there's we've been encountering a lot of problematic passes recently. I know we'll never top She's all that you should kill herself, but but we can get close. Yeah we can. Uh. There's a few moments after that in the movie. They're like trying to figure out whether or not they want to play the Jumanji video game, and Bethany says, oh, she's not big on fun, and then Martha's like fine, okay, and then Bethany says, this may be the lamest thing I've ever done, and Martha says, I highly doubt that. Shout out to the movie doubt shutting, but you said that I didn't. That's out. Everyone take their bats out. I don't know if this passes or not, because they're more talking into a void than to each other, so I'm not really sure about that one. Uh. And then okay, there is the scene where we've already talked about it, where Martha and Bethany but as their avatars, so Karen Gillan and Jack Black are like, oh, well, there's a moment where Martha's like, I need to borrow your jacket because I feel like I'm wearing a bikini. So that's like, but it's not nearly again, her outfit is not challenged nearly enough. No, no, not, I think not at all. I think that that then there was I remember seeing that like click bait written about when the first posters were at least and then it was immediately diffused by like, oh it's okay because they're making fun of video games. It's like, are still bad? Yeah, yeah, it's like there that that will change nothing. Yeah. I really hate the excuse of we're putting it in this context like as a commentary, but we're still doing the exact same thing. Yeah. I think the more effective tree there is, even if she starts that way, have her change exactly. They go to a bazaar. Surely there's like some clothes she can she could have gone and then she and then we can have women be shopping you. You can have the oh my god, the wonder Woman montage where they're like, well you can't make you less hot. There love a montage. But in that scene, Bethany's are like, couldn't judging me? And then Martha's like, I don't actually hate you, and she's like really, and she's like, no, you just live in your hot girl bubble where you're either being treated like a princess or an object. And she's like, well, also, but you're is kind of mean and maybe you just decide you don't like people so that they can't not like you. That's the best conversation between women in the movie. And it does end with like, you're kind of hot, so just like own that. She's like, okay, well she's like I'm hot me, and oh god, it's own it as a man. As a teenage girl, I'm fourteen. Uh, But like when you're a teenage girl seeing a movie, there's nothing more like especially if you're like a weird looking teenage girl who is I don't know, wearing a back Brasen will never fuck right, I'm just pulling out of nothing. But like it's going to see a movie and seeing a very hot, like young actress be like I'm so weird and ugly it just makes you just want to like murder someone. Like plenty of weird looking young actors out here we've we walked past on the street all the time. But The question is, does this scene past the back no test? I I don't know. I want to say it does. It's it's en talking to Jack Black, I think, but it passes on a real technicality, right, But it's Bethany and Martha talking about but just in bodies that are not their own. So I don't know. I think it does. The man that they're talking about is the body. Oh so god, what movies mean? The scene the scene after this where they talk again we're basically Bethany is teaching her how to be desirable to men. Doesn't pass because she is to be like, here's how to be hot and distract men. But yeah, this one is is a contender. But yeah, I guess we say it passes because these characters still identify as they identify as Bethany and Martha, and they're talking as Bethany, and so I guess does Yes, I still think it's cheating, but yes, it's it's Yeah, it's a it's a gray area. But well, the Betel, you know, it doesn't have these kind of modern filters. Yeah, how could Alison Becktel have predicted that Jack Black would be cast as a female wead? But the movie? So the movies. Even if this scene didn't pass, the movie would still pass from a couple earlier scenes between Martha and Bethany in their own actual bodies, and then a scene at the very end where Bethany is like, hey, Lucinda, let's go camping and she's like, what, you want to go backpacking in nature? And she's like, yeah, yeah, so yes, you learned so much in the Jungle Queen. So there you have it. Both movies pass the backtel test. But but Jumanji versus Jumanji? Which Jumanji Jumanji is the hardest. I'd say Milanna Wyethora versus mo Wanna. Which is the better Jumanji movie? Okay, I'm gonna say the first one. It's more iconic, it's got more fields. I mean, the second one is more like a remix. It's it's like such a different thing. Like I appreciate it the same way I appreciate like some of the lesser like Star Trek series, where I'm just like, you're not as good Enterprise, but I guess still in the same universe, so I still love you well. Loser talk with Brody has started in Finish Loser, I'm very cool it's true. I think the first one too. Yeah, I mean the I think the nostalgia alone for me to just haven't grown up with this movie and seen it so many times. But the second one also super good. Then movies the movie shall we write them on our nipple scale, Let's do it based on the portrayal of women. So the first one, I mean, all things can sit ed, I think for me, when it comes down to if you examine, like the big moments that the male characters have in influencing the direction that the story takes, it's almost always either Alan or Peter doing like oh we I fixed it or I saved everybody or whatever, and the women get much fewer of those moments, and that I think is the biggest problem for me for this movie. So I'm gonna give jam two nipples, and they belong to the lion, who mostly just camps out in the bed the whole movie. So it used to have a nice little relaxing time. Good for lion slays and for jumant you Welcome to the Jungle. I think because it's it was made decades later and had the opportunity to maybe correct some of the issues from the first movie. Represent women better, give them more bearing on the story, give them more on screen representation. All of that, it missed a lot of opportunities. So also, the only woman we really see on screen is a conventionally hot white lady. Right for the direction, this is this has been lady talked with Freddy Heart, This is Freddie dating corners. Right. Both movies are very white, so you know, very little women of color representation. Yeah, basically nothing in either movie, right. I think for Jumanji, I think Welcome to the Jungles also going to get to nipples from me um. I do like the both movies touch on like kind of toxic masculinity being spread from man to man and how that isn't serving anyone and how that's not the best way to approach things. But I don't know. Again, there were more opportunities for things to be commented on, female actors to have more bearing on the story for both movies. So yeah, both of them get two nipples, and the jaguar from the second movie gets my other two nipples. I'm down to go to and two as well, and I'm more annoyed with the second one for having to give it to the first one. Is all kind of I feel like par for the course nineties missed opportunities and not like thoughtless just movies did not consider much you know back then. So I don't't really have anything to add there. Yeah, this the second one sucks because it is like it just it it feels like a sleazy like executive somewhere is like he he, we got all the themes in, but we have said nothing. Like it's just like it's just like they they reference it. It's very Anything remotely feminist that's explored is commercial. You go, girl, feminism that says nothing still doubles down on but you've gotta be conventionally hot and like it's funny to like not have a perfect body for like an hour, you know. And yeah, and in that regard, I was like frustrated of like there was potential. They took some wide swings in some regards, but in terms of like making any meaningful commentary, which is you go to a Chumanji movie and you expect some meaningful commentary. But it was like there there could have been you know, a better choices could have been made, and I think weren't intentionally so two and two throwing one to Bonnie Hunt throwing one to David Alan Grier throwing one Nick Jonas and the alligator that he will present until he dies. How many nipples zero to five? Got it? I think I'm going to go two and two. Also, I never had a problem like thinking of the female characters in the first movie as real people. So that's cool, both nipples go to Bonnie Hunt, and then the second movie, I think I feel the same. It's like, like, for the reasons you guys have explored, it's not the most feminist movie, but does like give screen time to trying And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, all right, you know what I mean, Like I appreciate the effort, dudes. Um, so I'll give it to one and a half nipples, and I'll give them to the hippo and hippo and probably the snake. Oh yeah, this is crazy, But I do think DRUMANGI Welcome to the Jungle is one of the hardest movies we've ever covered on this show. It's it's like very like it was a challenging There is arguably a scene where she says, Martha, get over here and look at my dick. No, thank you. That passes the factel test. Maybe, well, I mean, we don't have to talk. It's like, that's crazy that that is an issue that's a talking point because they're not They're talking about a part of a man assists man's body. Well, we don't know, man, I mean the man. Are any of them technically sis because they're just like shells, you know, are any of the sexual beasts? But it is a man that it's up to her if she identifies as it, you know what I mean. It's like, right into the video game characters, I would argue aren't sexual beings because all the sexual vibes that we get are from the characters and not the video game character. So they're not combating against any sexuality from the video game characters. So I'm assuming that's not fair. So then I think that would pass the pactal test. One of our wildest passes. Yeah yeah, it's Jack Flag that say fat Oh my god. Instagram. Okay, well, Brodie, thank you so much. Thanks for having me on the last podcast. Keep it crispy, you guys. We h, this is just the last episode we're recording in this okay, shin, so don't cry. We're gonna be extremely hot in this tiny room. Yeah, hopefully next spot will have an air conditioner. Brodie, where can people find you? You can follow me on Twitter at ao bro bro You know I'm trying to release a lot of short films this year. You can check that out and pretty read dot com backslash videos. Cool yea. You can connect with us and find us on social media such as Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook. We've got some merch to buy some buttons, sunny diggers. I saw, I saw. I just went on a little tour and I saw people across this great nation sporting their putt and sporting their little pens. Shouts out to the group of people in Chicago that all showed up with their little feminist icon pins. That's so cute. The true heroes um also subscribe to our Matreon. Yes, that's great, and as always, thanks for listening. And we can't end this episode until we all say the magic words. I didn't realize we were doing that. I was like, oh man, I never listened to the end of the podcast. Job everybody. Bye.