Gabriella Russo: Embracing Self-Discovery and Advocacy in Autism – Overcoming Challenges and Building a Supportive Community

Welcome to Why Not Me the World? Podcast, hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join
us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will
make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life
people who will inspire and show that you are not
alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World?
Today we are joined by Gabriella Russo, an expert with
twenty five years of experience in supporting organizations that cater
to children, young people and families in the UK and internationally.
Her work has taken to the primary and secondary schools,
colleges and universities, where she helps ensure their safeguarding measures
are up to date. Gabriella is passionate about creating a
workplace culture that is inclusive, empathetic and compassionate. We're excited
to share her inspiring story. Thanks for coming on.
Oh, I really appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much.
Oh, it's my pleasure. How did you get involved with
the artistic community?
So my godchild is autistic? When she was when I'm sorry,
they've just identified as non binary and I'm still learning
the language. When they were much much smaller. Their mum
belonged to an autistic support group for families of autistic children,
and she asked me to come along so I could
get to know things and kind of learn things that
will be useful for my relationship with my godchild. So
I started going, and then I started being like, hang on,
this is feeling a bit like it's describing me, and
this sounds familiar. And basically, through that community came to
a recognition of my own autism. That was about nine
nine years ago now, and so I've stayed in that
community since, and that was really where where the journey
started for me. Was actually that point, And when I
turn around to my friend, I was like, I think
this might be me. She was like, no, really, I
kind of think you might be right. And everyone in
the group was like, yeah, you're definitely autistic. Why are
you even questioning this?
Did you get a formal diagnosis of autism?
It's been a long journey for me, actually, So I've
got to be honest that initially, when I started to
recognize it really freaked me out. I was just learning
about it myself. I've got a good history and some
really traumatic things in my history. I was in an
abusive marriage, in a high control church, things like that,
and I think when I first started to a record
andize it, the things that were going through my head
were those people, my abusive husband, those people were telling
about how they go. We always thought she was a
bit crazy. We were actually right in how we treated her,
so it played into that for me. Took me quite
a long time to really kind of go through that
process of accepting it. I was also struggling at work,
and as I start to work through it, I tried
to be honest in my place of work, and basically
what happened there was I ended up being bullied out
by my manager. They sort of she came in with
a bit of an agenda to get rid of me anyway.
She was a new manager and started shooting me really badly,
doing all the things you don't do for someone who
to autistic in the workplace, like micro managing, setting up
with difficult tasks, doing the sorts of things that really
sort of set a lot of panic in for me,
and I started having panic attacks that I now recognized
were kind of panic attack, stroke, meltdown type situations, and
I ended up happening to walk away from that job,
and so I was then recovering from that, and so
I am now in the process of being diagnosed, which
takes a long time here in the UK unless you've
got the funds to pay for something private. I have
a therapist who recognizes all of that I have doing
those kinds of things. So whilst I'm not officially medically diagnosed,
I'm definitely autistic that you know, I'm in those communities,
I'm surrounded, I've got a coach. I'm with all of
those people and we're working it through and I'm waiting
for the official diagnosis to happen.
With everything that happened to you, finding that you're artistic,
just the way that you did, the way that things
seem to make sense with your husband and the people
around you, How did that affect you with your family
and your interaction on a day to day basis. Did
that change things for you? What happened after that?
I think it's a really interesting situation with your late diagnosed.
When I say diagnosed, I count self diagnosis because it
is quite a difficult thing to get your full diagnosis medically.
The later you're diagnosed in lots of respects, the more
unpicking of of what's happened in your life up till
then kind of needs to take place if that's what
you want to do, right. So I've been doing that
and it's helped me to recognize why I felt certain
ways in different situations, why I struggled with my friendships
at school, why I often just felt like I was
somehow different. I was too much. I went very deep,
very quickly with friendships. They meant a lot more. I
got more, hurt, more easily, and I struggled with those
different things. It's not to say I didn't have friends,
but you know, things weren't always easy. I was bullied
throughout my primary school education, which is four to eleven.
Second of school wasn't quite so bad. I did struggle
at university. I mean I got through all of those things,
Like my education was fine in one sense, but I
definitely struggled at university. And so what it's done is,
as I've looked back, rather than kind of saying I
was rubbish at that, I wasn't organized enough. I was
the person who struggled with friendships that makes me less
than I've kind of gone, okay, that's why, and I'm different,
not broken. So it's gradually I'm picking those messages to
myself and kind of what the world makes you feel
about yourself.
That's a great way of looking at things. You've been
able to reflect on your past, diagnose yourself a little
bit in things that happened so that you could kind
of make sense of them with this all going on
in your life and you come into grips with everything
that you need to. This has really helped your overall
outlook on moving forward. I think that's a great thing.
Yeah, absolutely, And it's two things. It's not just changing things,
so it's actually going through self acceptance. So I'm not
changing who I am. I'm building my life in a
way that works for me, which we're not always afforded
the opportunity to do that. The world is set up
in a way that it's difficult to do that. Work
can be a difficult place to do that. And so
I am gradually messily learning and changing how I live
my life, what is accept to me as well as
the things I need to be aware of in terms
of how I impact other people as well.
Sure, I've had the opportunity to speak with many people
that have been late diagnosed. The greater percentage of those
being late diagnosed were females.
Yep.
The reason they've told me is they tend to mask
more to fit in.
Yep.
So, once you came to the conclusion that you are autistic,
did you get a chance to look at yourself as
an outsider looking at you where you could reflect on
things that you did, look at how you handled those things.
And once you looked at yourself, did a deeper dive
on some of the issues that you was having. Did
you find that you was masking as well? Oh?
One, absolutely definitely impact In part of the therapeutic journey
has been trying to find who I really am rather
than who I've built myself to be to fit in.
But yeah, oh completely, I can see that. I mean,
I used to even when I was a teenager and
even a little bit younger than that, I used to
be aware that I would be different depending on the
people I was around. I didn't understand why I was.
It was more like I'm afraid to kind of state
my preferences in case they get rejected. And now I
can see that that's masking, whereas before it was like,
I'm just not confident enough. I need some help with
my confidence.
Yeah, that makes sense. By doing this self diagnosis while
you're working with a therapist to get your diagnosis, have
you found that this might have put you in a
better place, more of your comfort zone, because you can
accept what happened except what's going on now, so that
you can use that to better move forward with your future.
Yeah, I mean I'm getting there. Some things I'm still
working through, but no, absolutely, I think I like myself
a lot more. I'm able to recognize that people's opinions
of me are their opinions of me rather than the
truth of me. I was very much people pleasing, trying
to keep the peace, trying to fit in, which set
me up for some difficult friendships and probably set me
up for, you know, some of the more traumatic things
I've gone through, not in a victim blaming way, but
in you have to recognize your own stuff as well.
And now I'm a little bit kind of less accepting
of people wanting me to be what fits them without
it being like I just know who I am and
everyone can get lost because I'm wonderful. I'm not saying that,
but there's kind of an equality to it that there
didn't used to be.
Sure, Sure, what are some of the things that you
still struggle with. You may be still working on it,
trying to fix it so that you can still accept
who you are. Yeah, you may be s ruggling on
some things just because the way the world is in
its perception of artistic people.
I certainly think that the workplace is an incredibly difficult
place to be. I'm self employed now, so that's it.
It wasn't a decision that was initially made just because
I struggled with my job. At that point, I was
still like that these things are happening. I was treated
really badly the organization I was working with. A lot
of other people were treated badly there as well. You
discover that when you leave. But in the process of
coming out of that job, I was headhunted essentially to
deliver training, and now I'm a full time consultant trainer.
It kind of happened organically in a way. As I've
done that, I've begun to recognize that I operate much
better in those spaces rather than the confines of nine
to five. You've got to be in the office. You've
got to I mean, I've never really had jobs that
are absolutely like ninety five in the office. I've done
youth work and some of those kinds of jobs. I
worked aunt Uman trafficking for a while, so I was
delving training. Working victims are quite a varied kind of job,
which I'm now discovering my ADHD as well, and that
kind of plays into that a little bit too. But regardless,
I still find that self employment, whilst it has its
real difficulties, allows me to work with my energy better.
So I'm not going into another cycle of autistic burnout,
which I now realize that's what that has been over
my life. I can work in the areas that light
me up and make the best of my gifts and talents,
and I'm actually bringing more of the best of me
to something rather than being pigeonholed and just not fitting
in in terms of the work.
Yeah, I mean that makes total sense. So with all
this happening, everything that you went through, this has really
turned you to an advocate and really helped your overall
business prospects in what you're doing.
Yeah. So I started off because my whole background is
in sort of safeguarding and working a special educational needs children,
done a whole bunch of that staff, working with children,
young people, working with children, young people going through abuse,
going through various traumas, and then I moved into into
human trafficking, so I was dealing with that side of
things as well, and then working more directly in schools
running anti abuse programs was the job that I was in.
When I left that job, I poured all that together
and started delivering safeguarding training and consultancy. And as I've
learned more about my newer diversity I've expanded that to
newerdiversity training. What I'm now working on is the kind
of the crossover between safeguarding and neurodiversity, because what I've
seen happen so much in my own career and you know,
work with children, young people and so on, is when
we get safeguarding training. Say, if you're a teacher, somebody
who works with children, young people, or vulnerable adults or
all of those things, you get your safeguarding training, and
these are the extra vulnerabilities that special educational needs children have, right,
so you're more aware of those things. And then they
turn eighteen and it seems like people assume that they've
grown out of it.
Yeah, yeah, right, we carry we.
Have to, well, I own I'm not saying anyone else
has to, but it's helpful to own that. Alongside on neuidiversity,
there are gifts, there are talents. There are things that
make me who I am, that make me brilliant at
the work that I do. But I do have vulnerabilities
that might be different to a neurotypical person, and those
things aren't always recognized. But when you look at stats
and things like that, the percentage of autistic women who
experience sexual abuses way higher than neurotypical. Is kind of
falling into abusive relationships because you're trying to people please,
you're masking all of those things, and so there is
a huge intersection. And so what it's now doing for
me is bringing those two things together is helping me
to kind of maybe work in a slightly different way,
slightly different space to people who work in sort of
the neudivergent space or people who work in safeguarding anetizing
with mental health, and it's like you need to have
all three together. So I'm now working in that space.
What are some of the challenges that you face. One
of the things that I find in tyking with people
for the last year and a half to two years
is artistic people, those with mental health ADHD, BiPOL or schizophrenia,
et cetera. The biggest issue I've found is trying to
get the neurotypical world to understand what they are going through.
As much as it's needed for people to understand, there
has to be those that are willing to teach them
so they can understand and hopefully that'll make it better
for everyone. What are some of the things that you've
run into trying to do this.
I think there are a lot of assumption, assumptions made
about your audiversity. There's an awful lot now about oh
my gosh, everyone's got autism, where everyone's got ADHD. Nowadays
it's a trend and it's like, no, just the same
as any other research. We've learned more, you know, we
discovered and I'm not comparing your adversity to illnesses, but
we know a lot more about illnesses. You know, people
used to die of illnesses and we didn't know what
they were at all, and now there's cures. Now, there's
all sorts of things now. I'm definitely not saying there's
cures for autism. I'm not talking about that at all.
What I'm saying is there is scientific and psychological growth
that means we're recognizing things more. That lays alongside the
fact that the world is faster, moving higher expectation. You know,
it's very different, and so it's bringing out some of
the complexities that people experience, as in, you're a divergent
person because of the way the world is going, you
line up bringing some of those things out more along
with more understanding, and you get an increasing diagnosis. So
people miss that they think it's a trend. In the
UK last week we had a politician talking about the
economic advantage of being autistic, which is you can imagine
work down like a lead balloon and there is this
kind of kind of says, oh, you just want those
labels so that you can get extra things, and it's
like there is no economic advantage. Is one heck of
a lot of economic disadvantages. And even with like self diagnosis,
when people have done that, they've generally researched, gone through things,
gradually worked things out, gradually figured out if someone safe
to kind of explore that. I mean even two years ago,
I wouldn't have come on a podcast to talk about
my autistic experience because I was still working it out.
I would deliver it in my I would talk about
it in my training that wasn't recorded. But it's a
really long journey for some of us. Some people can
just be out there with it straight away, and for
some of us it's a really hard process of self
acceptance as well, and people don't recognize that. So I
think that's a really tough one.
I can understand that for sure. I think basically what
you just said is what's been said so many times.
You've met one artistic person, You've met one artistic.
Person exactly exactly.
And of course males are diagnosed more than females are. Yeah,
that will add another layer of challenges to the artistic
world as well.
It's because the medical diagnosis model was created by observing
white boys, so it's actually people of color as well
have lower diagnoses. And there's a whole other complexity about
different communities and backgrounds accepting even the thought of going
through a diagnosis. But the medical model is based on
white boys, So that's a big part of the problem.
I've talked with a lot of females that have been
late diagnosed thirties forties, some even in their fifties. It
takes a huge leap of faith to get that diagnosis
because they've lived their life for so long as they
have been What would you tell someone that's considering diagnosis.
They've lived their life, they're comfortable with their life, yet
they know there's something not quite right. What would you
tell them? Because it's a big challenge to find these
things and then realize you might have to change a
few things to create that better life that you want.
I think the very first thing I would say is
that I wouldn't tell anybody whether they should or shouldn't,
because we spend our lives being told what is appropriate,
how we should fit in, what the expectations are on
all of those things, and I just feel like actually
adding to it a kind of also you must now
do this isn't necessarily helpful. Definitely not helpful. I would
say that if it's something you want to explore, it's
really worth being in contact with other people who have
gone through our going through the same being prepared for
the challenges as well as the joys of it, because
it gives you answers, but it can give you things
to grieve about that could have been different. I would
always say, if you can have some sort of therapy
that I love therapy. I'm not ashamed of it. I
love it. It's hard work, but I'm seeing the fruits
of that now, and the choice is always yours. You
can self diagnose, and particularly you know the autistic and
the udio magic community, that is acceptable. Will it make
a difference in your life? For the first few years
for me, I was like, it's not going to change
much because here is the support that I could possibly get.
I don't need a diagnosis for anyway here in the UK,
So do I want to bother with the process. I'm
now going through the process to help me to understand
things more now that I've reached a point that I
want to learn more of the nuances or understand different things,
you know, I wasn't going to go through it just
to get the label, as it were, so that the
biggest thing I would say is it's your choice. I
would gently encourage that it can be freeing and just
surviving isn't the way anybody should live. But if that's
all you've got in you at the moment, then don't
add I haven't bothered to go for an autistic diagnosis
to the list of things you beat yourself up with.
Yeah. Yeah, it's tough living with it not knowing yet.
It's tough to make that decision to get a diagnosis
because when you get that diagnosis, it could be freeing,
but it also could add a lot of stress because
of the unknown.
Oh yeah, absolutely. One of the things about autism is
we struggle with change. So it's like wa way to
kind of dive straight into something you struggle with. But
if you're if you're going into that knowing, then the
change can be easier. But I really just think about
being kind to ourselves, and that's something we're not very
good at because we've always, you know, spent so much
time trying to fit into whatever box is expected of it.
Yeah. Yeah, it's finding that balance so that you can
drive in the world, but it's also finding that comfort
zone that allows you to accept it and thrive.
Yeah yeah, And you know, it's not vastly different to
anybody who's doing some self examination, you know, being really
honest with themselves. Right, So I sit in my therapy
sometimes I'm like, I'm like, gosh, you know, I don't.
This is really difficult. This is a really difficult thing
to talk about my therapist. It's like, you're like nor
point not whatever, one percent of people who actually choose
to do the hard work. And not only that, you
have turned up week after week for coming up for
three years now, whereas other people go cases too hard, down,
walk away. So recognize that even choosing to be on
the path is huge and actually kind of praise yourself
for that a little bit, you know. Yeah, And other
people are doing that for other things other than just autism.
So with autism, that is you know, that is part
of the process. It is part of the process for
other self discovery as well, things that anyone wants to
work through, any kind of traum or anything you're struggling with.
So we're different in terms of the core reason, but
we're not so different from anybody else who's trying to
better themselves, learn more about themselves, build the life that's
best for them to thrive.
Absolutely, the most important thing is that you find your
comfort zone, as the old saying goes, you find a
way to be comfortable in your own skin. Yeah, the
most important part is that you take everything that you learn,
apply it, find a way to accept it, and then
hopefully with all the changes, you move forward with a
better life for yourself.
Yeah. Absolutely, and see your own value and worth. I
think one of the things I first said when I
started therapy was I want to actually be able to
advolate for myself. And I do now, not all the time,
not perfectly, but way more than I used to. I
don't even notice I'm doing it, so that's how much
the change is happening. But yeah, it's about being comfortable
in your own skin, not to the detriment of people
around you. But we all have to kind of shuffle
a little bit and accept each other, and we have
to accept ourselves absolutely.
From the time that you started up until now, what
are some of the changes that you've seen in yourself?
Sitting in it, it feels like forever. But I'm vastly different,
vastly vastly different. It's probably even difficult for me to
self identify some of those changes because the work that
I've done means that those kind of changes are just
happening naturally. But like I said, I wouldn't openly talk
about autism in the way that I am today on
a podcast that's kind of international. I wouldn't have kind
of put myself in a position of saying I can
actually deliver training on this stuff, you know, Whereas that's
what I do now. I talk about it with people
and I'm confident that I have the professional knowledge and
the you know, the lived experience knowledge combined that I've
got something to offer. I didn't used to think I
did in that way. I was always kind of the
safety of being in a job was this is what
you need to do. The difficulty was some of those
things really difficult to fulfill because of my autism and
my ADHD. Whereas now I'm like, no, I kind of
know my staff, I know what I'm doing. I have
plenty to learn. It can't be with arrogance, but I'm
good in my skin a lot more than I was,
way more than I was.
That's great to hear that you feel more confident about
what you're doing.
I walk away from rubbish far quicker than I used to,
as well, way quicker because it used to be it
must be something I'm doing wrong. Perhaps why I change
this about me? I have a really really deep sort
of sense of empathy, and I really feel other people's
feelings and because of that, I would be more concerned
about them than me and did myself damage or I
can understand why they've treated me that way because I
know what their trauma is making them do those kinds
of things. Whereas now I can hold that but still go.
But I still deserve respect and that's my boundary. So yeah,
that's very different, very.
Different, absolutely, and that's a great thing. Another thing that
you have to add to that is that everything that
you're doing is actually helping someone and your changing lives.
That's a huge positive all the way around.
I hope so seems to be. You know, I do
seem to sort of have positive effect in the places
that I go into. That's a very British response, isn't it.
Very self deprecating. Yeah, I am making a difference. You know,
I'm training people, speaking to people, you know, seeing those
light bulb moments, you know, the work I do. Professionals
that like, oh my gosh, I understand have to work
with your a DIA family much better now. With businesses,
there's things, you know, there are very simple changes that
can be made that makes things so much easier. To
accommodate somebody. That isn't a big deal but makes all
the difference.
So, yeah, you bring up the workplace, that's another area
that needs to be addressed. For sure. Artistic people are
either underemployed or unemployed. I think that's great that you're
trying to help that out too, because they certainly can
contribute to the workforce.
Yeah, oh absolutely. The percentages are I can't remember. I
did this research the other day for another piece I
was doing, but it's something like thirty percent of autistic
people are in some form of employment. And even the
employment that we're in, it's not necessarily full time. It
could be part time, er hours, contracting, all of those
different things. So if you are creating an environment where
somebody can flourish and thrive, how loyalty is huge?
Absolutely? How do people find you if they need your help?
I'm on LinkedIn, I have a website. I'm on Facebook,
so it's my website is Gabrielarusso dot co dot UK.
That's Gabriela ru double s it's the Italian version of
the French version. And looking that up everywhere else. Some
on Instagram, LinkedIn all those various things and then message
me have a chat. There's lots of different ways I
can work with people or just connect people. Just have
a conversation would be great as well.
This has been a great conversation. I've really enjoyed it,
so thanks for coming on.
It's been fantastic talking to you, Tony. I really really
appreciate it as well. It's great opportunity, lovely to meet
someone who's advocating for the autistic community.
Absolutely, it's been my pleasure. Thanks for taking the time
out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we
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